临近中年危机？！

对吧？

Right?

所以，好吧。

So Okay.

所以，有个问题。

So question.

你觉得为什么更合适呢？

Like, why do you think it's more appropriate?

我只是觉得喝威士忌更有深度。

I just think it's just it's just there's more depth in drinking a whiskey.

威士忌是一种可以慢慢啜饮的饮品。

And a whiskey is a type of drink where you can kinda sip on.

你可以从更多方面去欣赏它。

You can appreciate in a lot more ways.

而且它更像一个能开启对话的话题。

And it just it's just more of like a conversation starter.

嗯。

Mhmm.

或者甚至不是开场白，而是当你坐下来的时候，你知道，在俱乐部里，你不可能好好享受一杯优质的威士忌，你知道，当情况变成‘哎呀’的时候。

Or not even a starter, but just like when you're having, when you're sitting down, when you're like, you know because at a club, you know, you're not gonna like enjoy a nice fine whiskey, you know, when it's like, whoops.

对吧？

Right?

那不是合适的环境，而且他们也不会在那里提供优质的威士忌。

Like, that's not the environment, nor are they gonna have nice whiskey there.

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Mhmm.

而在这里，很多酒可能甚至是假的。

And here, a lot of it is probably even fake.

所以在那里，你只是想喝醉而已。

So there, you're just trying get fucked up.

对吧？

Right?

就是喝点烈酒，龙舌兰、野格炸弹之类的，什么都行。

Try to take shots, tequilas, jager palms, whatever.

对吧？

Right?

但我觉得我们现在常去的地方更适合喝威士忌，而且那里的威士忌选择也更好。

But I think the places we hang out more now are more suitable to whiskey, and you get much better whiskey options there.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且它是一款很棒的饮品，有点像是我这辈子想多花点心思去品味的东西。

And it's a great drink, and it's something like I just kinda wanna appreciate a little more than I have in my life.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know?

以前呢，就是在我成长的时候，只听说过杰克丹尼威士忌。

Before it was just like, you know, when I was growing up, it was just like Jack Daniel's.

你知道的，所以你

And, you know So And you

就是直接喝纯的。

just you just take shots of it.

而且，那也是当时很酷的饮品。

Well, that that was also like the cool drink.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

所以就像，杰克和可乐。

So it's like, oh, Jack and Coke.

是的。

Yeah.

好像每个人都在喝杰克和可乐。

It's like everyone's all everyone's drinking Jack and Coke.

所以是啊。

So yeah.

杰克。

Jack.

但杰克和杰克。

But Jack and Jack.

没错。

Exactly.

对我而言，那也是麦卡斯。

Well, for me, it was also makers.

对吧？

Right?

所以是麦卡斯和……

So it was like makers and Yeah.

但现在你让我喝杰克丹尼或制作者，我肯定会说：绝对不喝。

And and but now, you ask me to drink Jack or Makers, I'm like, hell no.

味道像屎一样。

It tastes like shit.

真的就是像屎一样。

It just tastes like shit.

是的。

Yeah.

对不起。

I'm sorry.

对。

Yeah.

味道像屎一样。

It tastes like shit.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

现在，我宁愿多花点钱买一瓶好威士忌。

Right now, I'd rather spend more money on a nice whiskey.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗，如果我去一家不错的酒吧，我会毫不犹豫地买贵一点的威士忌，因为喝起来更享受，对吧？

You know, if I go out to a nice bar, you know, I'll I'll buy like, I won't hesitate to buy, you know, slightly more expensive whiskey if I'm gonna enjoy it more, you know?

那最主要的因素是什么？

What what what is that what is the biggest factor there?

当我们的生活习惯和体验发生变化时，到底是什么在起作用？

Like, you know, as we're changing in our habits and what we experience, like what is it?

是因为我们变老了吗？

Like are we getting older?

我觉得

Like I think

我们绝对是，我们绝对是

we're definitely we're definitely

变老了。

getting older.

我们是不是，我们是不是，我们是不是，你知道，我们是不是在某种程度上遵循着预期？

Are we are we are we go you know, are we sort of following the expectations?

好的。

Okay.

我到了某个年纪，就应该喝某种特定的饮品。

I'm a certain age, I should be drinking a certain kind of drink.

比如，为什么人们在不同的人生阶段似乎都会经历这种变化？

Like, like, why do why does this seem to happen to people as they move through different parts

在他们的人生中？

of their life?

就我个人而言，我认为这与我们自身身份的演变有关。

Like Personally, I think it has to do with the evolution of kind of our own identity.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得随着我们变老，尤其是从18岁到19岁的时候，我认为那段时间并没有身份上的变化。

I think as we get older and especially not when you when you go from like 18 to 19, I don't think there's an identity change there.

从21岁到22岁，我觉得在身份上也没有什么实质性的变化。

When you go from 21 to 22, I don't think there's really any actual change there in terms of your identity.

但当你考虑到某些过渡时期的时候。

But when you take into like certain transitional periods.

对吧？

Right?

所以我认为从18岁到25岁之间，会有一个很大的过渡期。

So I would think from like from like between like 18 to 25, I think there's like a big transitional period there.

对吧？

Right?

比如说，当你进入三十多岁，到了三十五六岁，我现在36岁了。

From let's say, when you cross into your thirties and you get into like, you know, like your mid thirties, 35, 36, I'm 36 years old now.

我觉得这是另一个重大的转变期，对吧？

I think that's another big transitional shift, right?

所以当人们谈论所谓的‘四分之一人生危机’时，对吧？

So I think when people talk, you know, there there's the quarter life crisis, right?

很多人会提到这个说法。

A lot of people refer to.

四分之一人生危机。

Quarter life crisis.

我觉得这通常发生在你二十岁出头的时候。

And I think that's gonna happen in your in your more like your early twenties maybe.

大多数人总是活在当下。

Most people are always living.

对吧？

Right?

因为人们的寿命变得更长了。

Because people are living, you know, like, a little bit longer.

对吧？

Right?

所以，我觉得

And so Well, I think

我觉得有很多因素，而且每个人经历的情况和程度都会有所不同。

I think there's think it's a really I think there's a lot of factors, and it's almost gonna happen different for everyone and to different degrees.

对吧？

Right?

有些人可能一生都不会觉得自己经历过所谓的中年危机。

Some people might go through life without ever feeling that they've had, let's say, a midlife crisis.

对吧？

Right?

但有些人会经历非常严重的中年危机。

But some people will go through, you know, very serious midlife crises.

对吧？

Right?

所以，这个问题其实是，你怎么知道自己正在经历中年危机呢？

So, you know, the whole question is like, you know, are do you know how do you know you're going through a midlife crisis?

对吧？

Right?

比如说，中年危机有哪些典型的症状呢？

Like, what are the kind of like, you know, traditional symptoms of a midlife crisis?

这对你来说意味着什么？

How does it apply to you?

而且，通常是在什么年龄发生呢？

And, you know, like, at what age you typically go through.

我其实做过一些这方面的研究，根据维基百科和谷歌的说法，中年危机一般指的是45岁到60岁之间的年龄段。

So I've actually done some research on this, and traditionally, like, according to, Wikipedia and Google, right, midlife crisis is usually referred to, like, as in ages from, like, 45 to between 45 and 60 years old.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我觉得，五十岁左右通常是很多中年男性经历中年危机的时候。

So I think around your fifties is when typically a lot of people, middle aged men go through their midlife crisis.

这通常被定义为一种对自我身份和自信心的危机。

And it's usually defined as kind of like a crisis in one's own identity and self confidence.

对吧？

Right?

所以有很多不同的因素可能会促成这种情况

So a lot of different factors can contribute

能举个例子吗？

to What would be an example of that?

比如

Like

我不知道。

I don't know.

我觉得这是因为当人们意识到自己生命有限的现实时，这种危机就会发生。

Like some because I think I have I think it occurs when people kind of realize, you know, the realities of their own mortality.

我认为，归根结底，在我看来，死亡以及对自身即将离世这一现实的认知，才是真正引发所有这些不安全感和担忧的原因。

I think when you boil it all down to, in my personal opinion, I think death is and the realization of, you know, the reality of one's impending death is what really kinda starts driving in all these insecurities, all these concerns.

然后人们开始怀疑，我这一生还没做得够多。

And then people start doubting like, I haven't done enough enough with my life.

对。

Right.

或者我还没实现所有目标，或者我是谁？

Or having, you know, I haven't accomplished all my goals, or who am I?

或者我需要做些事情，于是此时此刻变得更为突出。

Or I need to do you know, like, so the then and now becomes much more enhanced.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为所谓的中年危机，就是你所有深层的不安全感在全速运转。

And I think what all of midlife crisis is is all your underlying insecurities on overdrive, working overdrive.

因为我觉得它们一直都在那里。

Because they're they're they've I think they've always been there.

我认为它们并不是新出现的。

I don't think they're new.

我突然意识到，你可能很快就会死去，这把一切都从尘埃中掀了出来，是的。

I think all of a sudden, it's just this realization that you might die soon, brings it all out of from the dirt Yeah.

而且就像把这一切推到了最前沿。

And like, just like puts it in the forefront.

是的。

Yeah.

然后危机就发生了。

And then that's when the crisis happens.

对吧？

Right?

这真的很有趣。

So it's really interesting.

我感觉所谓的中年危机是这样的。

And I get the sense that a midlife okay.

首先，我觉得我一生中经历过各种各样的危机，不管你怎么称呼它们。

First of all, I feel like, you know, that I've experienced like crises like throughout my life, whatever you want to call them.

对。

Right.

危机有不同的类型。

Just there are different types of crises.

我觉得中年危机或危机通常被看作是伴随着恐慌、恐惧和焦虑的。

And I feel like midlife crises or crisis are viewed sort of like with panic, with fear, with anxiety.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但根据我们最近读到的很多内容，我几乎觉得你需要每天经历一次危机，这样才能决定哪些才是真正重要的事情，不断反思，而不是等到45岁、50岁、55岁才迎来那一刻。

But based on a lot of the stuff that we've been reading lately, I almost feel like you need to have a crisis every day so that you can then decide on the essential things that matter and so that you can constantly reflect on that and not wait till you're 45, 50, 55 and get to that point.

你知道，我真的希望每天都能经历一次危机。

You know, like, I actually wanna have a crisis every day.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，这让我想起，说实话，我觉得如果

I mean This reminds me It's really, you know I think if

你们还没听过吧，有一场TED演讲。

you guys haven't listened to it already, there's a TED talk.

它的标题是《中年危机需要重新包装》。

And it's a it's entitled midlife crisis needs a rebrand.

我觉得大概是这样的，我看过那场演讲。

I think it's something along the I watched that.

是的。

Yeah.

我发给你们的那个人，是谁来着？

Like, I sent you guys Who who who did that?

帕什·帕什·佩什科夫。

Pash Pash Peshkow.

希望我没念错他的名字。

I hope I'm not butchering his name.

等一下。

Hold on.

让我想想，他做了这个TED演讲。

Let me So he did this TED Talk.

我们需要找一位，比如，语言专家

We need to get a, like, a linguistic expert

是的。

Yeah.

这个节目。

The show.

杰西卡在附近吗？

So is Jessica around?

比如，我们需要请她上节目。

Like, we need to get her on the show.

所以这个人的名字是帕什·佩什科夫，他实际上是一位品牌战略家。

So the guy's name is Pash Peshkow, and he's actually a brand strategist.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

所以他做了一个关于中年危机的TED演讲。

So he did this TED talk about midlife crisis.

这会是一个不错的引子。

That's gonna be kind of an intro.

帕什 帕什 帕什 帕什 帕什 帕什 帕什

Pash Pash Pash Pash Pash Pash Pash

帕什？

Pash?

是的。

Yeah.

这算是一种

That's a kind of a

这名字挺酷的。

It's a cool name.

贾斯汀·杨？

Justin Justin Yang?

不是。

No.

老兄，那简直是我的名字。

Dude, that's like my name.

他们怎么样？他们怎么样？他们怎么样？

How how how are they?

他们怎么样？

How are they?

他们？

They?

不是。

No.

但他确实提到过这个演讲，跟你刚才说的有点相关，他说研究表明，是的。

But he did say talk and it's kinda goes along what you were saying is, he's talking about that studies show Yeah.

大多数经历中年危机的人都能从中走出来，变得更好。

That the vast majority of people that do go through like a midlife crisis come out on the other end much yeah.

更好。

Better.

更有自信。

More confident Yeah.

更好，也更快乐。

And better and happier.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

所以他说，这是一个必要的过程。

So he's saying like, it's it's a necessary step.

就像你最终会走出来，这其实是一个开启讨论的机会。

Like, you come out at the other end, like, you know, so it's an opportunity to start a discussion.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

他打了一个很酷的比方，说这就像一家公司重新品牌定位。

And the kind of cool analogy that he kind of paints is it's like a it's like a company rebranding itself.

对吧？

Right?

比如说塔吉特。

So, you know, let's say Target.

对吧？

Right?

塔吉特最近重新进行了品牌重塑，你知道，很多大公司都会经历这种变化。

Target's recently like rebranded itself, and you know, a lot of big companies go through Mhmm.

这种品牌重塑。

Kind of this rebranding.

对吧？

Right?

有意思。

Interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

所以你就得问自己同样的问题。

So so it's like you ask yourself the same questions.

因为如果你在一个大公司的会议室里，正在经历一次品牌重塑会议。

Because if you're in a boardroom of a big company, and you're going through, like, you're having this rebranding meeting.

对吧？

Right?

战略。

The strategy.

你会问自己，好吧。

You're gonna ask yourself, okay.

那么，我们是谁，我们代表什么？

Well, who are we and what do we stand for?

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

我们该怎么向我们的员工传达这一点呢？

How are we gonna communicate this, you know, to our people?

所以，这些其实就像是你在经历中年危机时，会问自己的那些问题，我觉得。

So these are kind of like the same questions you would ask yourself personally, I think, when you're going through a midlife crisis.

我现在就正处于这样的阶段。

I know I am right now.

对吧？

Right?

我正在问自己：我是谁？

I'm asking myself like, okay, who am I?

我代表什么？

What do I stand for?

我的真实价值观是什么？

What are my real values?

对吧？

Right?

我该怎么向我在乎的人传达这些价值观呢？

What am I gonna do to communicate these values, you know, to the people I care about?

对吧？

Right?

你知道吗，我该怎么落实这些呢？

And you know, how am I gonna execute on this?

对吧？

Right?

那我该怎么提升自己，真正地重新塑造自我呢？

So how am I gonna evolve myself to position myself really to kind of rebrand Yeah.

我自己的身份？

My own identity?

我完全同意这一点。

I 100% agree with that.

如果我回想起2016年的时候。

And if if you I reflect back to what, like, 2016.

对吧？

Right?

所以大概是两年半前，三年前，现在是2019年。

So like two and a half years ago, three years ago, now it's 2019.

但还记得我辞职的时候吗？

But remember when I quit my job.

好的。

Okay.

然后我回到纽约待了三个月。

And I went to I went back to New York for like three months.

是的。

Yeah.

只有一个目标，嗯。

With the one goal Mhmm.

就是写一个剧本，拍一部电影，重新回到我曾经在做的事情。

Is to write a script, make a film, to get back into Remember what I be doing.

是的。

Yeah.

以及我想去做的事情。

And what I wanna be doing.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

因为我只是不想再做我以前在做的事情。

Because I just didn't wanna do what I was doing before.

这是一种重新定位。

That's a rebranding.

我是说，我停了下来，花了一段时间。

Like, I I got I stopped, and it took a long time.

我当时正经历抑郁和焦虑发作，日复一日地做着原来的事，直到最后我说：够了，到此为止。

I was going through depression and and anxiety attacks, like, doing what I was doing every day until finally I said, enough is enough.

对吧？

Right?

第二天早上我醒来，做了个决定，离开了，接受了随之而来的所有负面后果——来自家人的一切压力。

The next day I woke up, made a decision, left, you know, accepted all the aftermath that the negative aftermath that was gonna come through family and all that stuff.

我离开了，而我有一位支持我的妻子，她说：去吧，做你想做的。

Left and I had a supportive wife that was like, go ahead, do your thing.

我回来了，现在我在做我现在正在做的事，你知道的。

And I came back, and now I'm doing what I'm doing, you know.

这是一种重新定位，而且这不仅仅是职业上的转变。

And that's a rebranding, and and that's just not career either.

对吧？

Right?

而且，如果你们还记得的话，我对生活本身的态度也发生了变化。

It's also if you guys can remember, my mentality on on life itself, right, changed.

我记得那时候你在纽约拍那部短片的时候，我们还在电话里聊过。

I remember during that time you were when you were in New York actually shooting that short film you did, we were on the phone.

你打电话给我，是想让我给你写的剧本提点意见。

You had called me because you were asking for my input on the script you had written.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你说话的方式，还有你的声音，听起来就像是一个全新的霍伊。

And the way you were talking and just your voice, like, way you sounded was just like it was kind of like a new Howie.

不是全新的霍伊，而是你突然间又像个小孩一样了。

It was like not a new Howie, but like it was like you were all of a sudden, like, a kid again.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what mean?

那时候你的声音里有一种兴奋感，是的。

Like, there was that excitement Mhmm.

在你的声音里。

In your voice.

你的声音里既有紧张又有兴奋，因为你觉得自己在从事某项事业。

There was that that nervousness and excitement in your voice where, like, you felt like you were, like, working on something.

你真的非常兴奋，是的。

Like, you were really truly excited Mhmm.

而且很久以来第一次对某件事感到紧张和激动。

And nervous to be working on something for, like, the first time in a long time.

是的。

Mhmm.

所以我记得那次对话。

And so I I remember that conversation.

是的。

Mhmm.

结果对你来说挺好的，伙计。

And it worked out well for you, man.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

因为那是我认为作为一个团队很重要的一点，嗯。

Because I because that's one of the things that I think as a group Mhmm.

我的意思是，我们聚在一起时我经常这么说。

I mean, I I say this a lot when we hang out.

你知道，我有时候半开玩笑地说，我们过去可能就是那样的行为和心态。

You know, I I half joke, you know, sometimes about, you know, basically behavior and mindset that maybe we used to be like, you know.

我常开玩笑说自己是个无聊的、一本正经的人，然后我们都会笑，接着我会说，嘿，我只是在瞎扯。

And I have joke about being like the boring guy that's, you know, the straight laced guy, you know, like and then we, you we we we laugh and I come back and I'm like, yeah, I'm just fucking around.

但与此同时，这也有道理，因为这就是我重塑自我的一部分，即努力让自己朝着我想去的方向前进。

But at the same time, there is truth to that because, you know, that's part of my rebranding, which is trying to keep myself in a direction where I want to be going.

而这一部分就是放下过去的自己。

And part of that is letting go of how I used to be.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那种不在乎、不尊重自己也不尊重他人的心态，本质上其实就是自私。

The mentality of not caring, you know, not respecting myself and not respecting other people, that mentality of just very just selfishness is all it is, really.

还有更多地去思考，这也是一种自私。

And and and think more about, which is also a form of selfishness.

对吧？

Right?

我真正想做什么？

Like, what do I really wanna do?

我真正想成为什么样的人？

And and how do I really wanna be?

对吧？

Right?

这是一种以自我为中心的思维方式。

Which is a selfish way of thinking.

是的。

Yeah.

但我并不认为这是自私。

But I don't think it's selfish though.

我的意思是，我不会把这称为自私。

You know, I mean, I I wouldn't come at like selfish.

我认为自私是指为了自己而损害他人的利益。

I think selfish is something selfish is when you're doing something for yourself at the cost of someone else.

那才是自私。

That's selfish.

好的。

Okay.

我不这么认为，但我觉得个人重塑并不会损害任何人的利益。

I don't but I think a personal rebranding is not at the cost of anyone else.

事实上，如果你正确且成功地重塑了自己，这反而会惠及你周围的所有人。

If in fact, if you rebrand yourself correctly and successfully, it's at the benefit of everyone else around you.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你知道，人们会关心你。

You know, people will care about you.

对吧？

Right?

所以我不认为这应该被看作是一种自私的行为。

So I wouldn't call that, you know, I wouldn't look at that as kind of like a selfish thing.

不过我会说，如果我们把所谓的中年危机称为一次个人重塑的话。

I would say though, in order to like, if we're gonna call, like, know, going through a midlife crisis, like, an individual rebranding.

对吧？

Right?

为你自己进行一次身份重塑。

An identity rebranding for yourself.

我认为，要真正实现这一点，前提是你在一生中经历过丰富多彩的各种事物。

I think a necessary requisite to actually have that happen is having had experienced a plethora of different things throughout life.

对吧？

Right?

如果我们以他过去在TED演讲中提到的那头奶牛为例，那些公司确实进行了品牌重塑。

So if we take the analogy of that past past cow does in his in his Ted Talk, where it's, you know, these companies do rebranding.

你真正看到哪些公司进行了重大的品牌重塑？

What are the companies that you really see doing, like, major rebrands?

有一些公司历史悠久，拥有传统和积淀，已经存在了很长时间。

There are companies that have been around, that have a legacy, that have a heritage, that have been around for a very long time.

对吧？

Right?

它们原本就已经具备了某种身份。

That had already a certain identity.

突然间，可能是因为经济不景气、业务不佳，或是竞争压力等原因，他们发现自己不得不进行大规模的品牌重塑。

All of a sudden, because of, you know, maybe the economy or the business isn't doing too well, or because of competition or whatever it is, all of a sudden, they find themselves having to do this massive rebrand.

对吧？

Right?

而这正是一场危机。

And that's a crisis.

对吗？

Right?

所以这就像是公司的中年危机。

So that's like a midlife crisis for a company.

但它们的品牌，比如，你不会看到一个新品牌、一个初创公司突然就说，我们得进行品牌重塑。

But their brands, like, don't see a new brand, a startup, all of a sudden, like, we have to go through a rebrand.

这种情况其实不会发生。

And doesn't really happen.

对吧？

Right?

所以我认为，对于个人来说也是如此。

So I think that it's the same when it comes to individual.

对吧？

Right?

我想，我们认识你们已经十多年了。

I think us, you know, having known you guys for over a decade now.

对吧？

Right?

而我们这里，显然住在上海，经历了很多事情。

And us here, obviously, you know, living in Shanghai, we've we've experienced a lot of things.

对吧？

Right?

因此，我们参与过很多不同的社交群体。

So we've been a part of, I think, a lot of different social groups.

你知道，我曾经是个书呆子。

You know, I I I've you know, I've been I've been a nerd.

我当过滑板爱好者。

I've been a skater.

我当过音乐人。

I've been a musician.

我当过派对达人。

I've been I've been like, you know, I've been a party guy.

我当过运动员。

I've been a jock.

对吧？

Right?

也许不是书呆子。

Maybe not a nerd.

我不确定。

I don't know.

但我有时会认同自己是

But I I sometimes identify with a

派对也许。

party Maybe.

是的。

Yeah.

书呆子。

Nerd.

但是，你知道，我们也有过不少相当疯狂的经历。

But but, you know, we we've had our share of, you know, pretty crazy experiences.

对吧？

Right?

你知道，光是在上海，更不用说在我们相遇之前了。

You know, just in Shanghai alone, not to mention even before we met each other.

对吧？

Right?

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

所以我认为现在有必要获得一种——我不想用‘智慧’这个词，因为我并不想显得自己有多聪明，但我觉得这更像是对自我的一种洞察。

So I think all that is necessary now to have the kind of you know, I don't wanna use the word wisdom because I wanna be like, oh, or like, I'm not so wise or anything, but I think it's sort of an insight into your your oneself.

对吧？

Right?

经历过这么多事情之后，就能明白什么时候或如何需要重新塑造自己。

Having experienced all these things to now be like, to know when or how you need to rebrand yourself.

对吧？

Right?

因为如果你一辈子都活在封闭的环境里，

Because if you if you haven't, if you lived in a box your whole life.

对吧？

Right?

从未接触过各种不同的情况、场景和人生经历，我认为你不会拥有足够的素材——这么说吧——或者洞察力，来真正地重新塑造自己。

And you haven't really been exposed to a lot of different kind of situations and scenarios and experiences, life experiences in general, I don't think you're gonna have the kind of material, you know, so to speak, or insight, so to speak, to really rebrand yourself properly.

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what mean?

是的。

Yeah.

或者说，要真正为此做出正确的决定。

Or to really make the right decisions about that.

我非常喜欢这次讨论。

I I love the discussion.

我有类似的看法，但我觉得我也有一个稍微互补的视角。

I have a similar perspective, but I think I also have a slightly complementary perspective.

所以我认为，首先，三年时间已经过去了，我是说，时光飞逝。

So I think first of all, three years has gone by since I mean, time flies.

比如，我清楚地记得我们当时在某个餐厅，我们聊着天，我记得你当时好像还在你姐姐的公司工作。

Like, I I remember literally we were in some, you know, in some restaurant and we're talking about I think you were still working at your sister's company.

那肯定已经是三年前或者更久以前的事了。

So that must have been like three years ago or more.

至少三年了。

At least three years.

对吧？

Right?

更多。

More.

我回到上海已经四年了。

I've been back in Shanghai, what, four years now.

所以，首先，为做出这个决定干杯

So I mean, first of all, cheers for making

吧。

that decision.

等一下。

Hold on.

让我，让我，是的。

Let me let me Yeah.

他需要一些

He needs some

你们俩在照看自己的饮料啊，老兄。

You guys are babysitting your drinks, man.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯，我们其实没怎么喝，这得追溯到我们过去。

Well, we weren't, you know it goes back into our past.

我们从来不是重度饮酒者。

We were never heavy drinkers.

闭嘴。

Shut up.

我们都清楚那不是真的。

We all know that's not true.

干杯。

Cheers.

干杯。

Cheers.

所以我认为，首先，我真的很为你感到骄傲，豪伊，为你过去两年所做的事情以及你所展现出的勇气。

So I think first of all, I'm really proud of you, Howie, for what you've done in the last two years and the and the courage that you've had.

我认为第二点是，当你们谈到重新品牌化时，我觉得这是一个很有趣的概念，它是一个非常贴切的隐喻，与我们对公司的理解紧密相连，对吧？

I think second second piece is that so as you guys were talking about rebranding, I think it's an interesting concept and it's a it's a metaphor that is very sort of it connects to sort of our understanding of like companies, right?

这是一个非常相关的隐喻。

It's a very relevant metaphor.

我也会从另一个角度来看待它。

I also look at it in a different way.

也许这并不是所谓的重新品牌化。

Maybe it's not so much of a rebranding.

也许你一直都知道自己是谁。

Maybe it's that you always knew who you were.

你从未忘记自己真正想做的事情。

You've never forgotten what you really wanted to do.

对吧？

Right?

你上电影学院的时候，我记得你高中时就跟我提起过，你对这些事情一直很有兴趣。

You went to film school like in I mean, I remember you telling me in high school, like you you had these types of interests.

你对音乐很着迷，还参与了各种

Were into music, were in all

这些事情。

these things.

你希望

You wanted

富有创造力。

to be creative.

你希望分享你的愿景。

You wanted to share your vision.

你希望讲述故事。

You wanted to tell stories.

而你一直都想这么做。

And you've always wanted to do that.

而你之前从事的公关、广告之类的工作，也帮助你实现了这一点。

And your work before and PR and all that stuff and advertising helped you do that.

但这并不完全是你真正想做的事情。

But it wasn't exactly what you really wanted to do.

它没有让你讲述你真正想讲的故事。

It didn't allow you to tell the story that you really wanted.

所以三年前，你决定要真正回归自己的核心价值观。

And so three years ago you decided that I really wanna go back to my core values.

我想回归真实的自我。

I wanna go back to who I am.

所以你当时只是在某种程度上进行重塑，可以看作是一种品牌再造。

And so you you were just you're sort of going so rebranding is one way of looking at it.

但你真正想说的是

But you were really saying

我是

I'm

回归你的本源。

going back to your roots.

你想回归你的本源。

You wanna go back to your roots.

就像苹果公司那样，非同凡想。

It's like it's like it's like Apple, think different.

因为当我们谈论重新品牌时，往往只是表面功夫。

It's because sometimes when we talk about rebranding, it's it's all it's superficial.

只是停留在表面。

It's on the surface.

你知道我说的意思吧？

You know I'm saying?

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我认为这确实是其中一方面，但很棒，你知道，我认为我们都应该重新品牌、重新思考或重新定义，但希望我们能始终忠于核心的自我。

So I think there's that aspect of it, but it's great, you know, and I think we all need to rebrand or rethink or redefine, but hopefully we're staying true to the core you.

嗯，我认为你提出一个有趣的观点，即这或许不只是对我们自身的新发现，而是我们其实一直或多或少都知道。

Well, I think I think you bring up an interesting point in the fact that maybe it's not just kind of this, like this new discovery of who we are, but we all almost kind of known.

但确实，如果你想想看，我们年轻时做的那些事情，通常不是完全相同，但属于类似类型的事情，我们会重新回到那些方向。

But yeah, because like, if you think about it, like, the kind of things we did when we were younger, right, are usually the kind of things, not exactly, but like the type of things we revert back to.

所以，如果我们年轻时是富有创造力的人，通常在经历品牌重塑或中年危机之后，我们会开始重新思考能重新从事的创造性活动。

So if we were like creatives when we were young, usually, you know, after you let's say you go through like a rebranding or a midlife crisis, usually you start thinking about creative things you can start doing again.

显然，这些事情不会和以前完全一样。

Obviously, they're not gonna be the same exact things.

对吧？

Right?

它们会更现实，更贴近现实生活，是你能靠它谋生的事情。

They're gonna be more realistic and things that are applicable to to the real world and things you can, you know, make a living off of.

但它们还是会回归到某种具有创造性的本质。

But they'll kinda revert back to something creative in nature.

对吧？

Right?

或者你小时候是个科技迷之类的，你知道我的意思吧？

Or if you were, you know, if you were like a, you know, like a tech kid or something like that, you know what mean?

你会重新回到那种状态。

You kind of revert back to that.

你会重新回到最初的热情。

You revert back to kind of an initial passion.

所以我觉得这很有趣。

So I think that's interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

我不确定。

I don't know.

这可能没错，因为小时候，你其实已经知道自己想做什么。

That might be true in that, like, as a young kid, you kind of already know what you wanna do.

是的。

Yeah.

然后，人生中你就渐渐迷失了，是吧。

And then, you know, through life, you just kinda, like, you know, you just get lost Yeah.

某种程度上，你不知道该用什么方式。

In a way You don't know the vehicle.

走上另一条路，然后你又试着找回那条路。

Go down a different path, and then you kind of try to find that path again.

是的。

Yeah.

比如，你心里有点感觉，但你不知道该用什么方式，因为你必须与世界互动。

Like, you you have some sense, but you don't know the vehicle because you do have to engage the world.

是的。

Yeah.

所以拍电影之类的，你知道，你不能孤立地去做。

So like making films, all that stuff, like, you know, it's you can't do it in isolation.

但让我再补充一点。

But but let me add in another thing.

我的意思是，就我自己而言，我重新回归到我的核心价值观。

I mean, just for myself, my return returning back to my core values.

对吧？

Right?

那也是因为我接触过这些。

That's also because I was exposed to it.

所以在这方面我有优势，无论是玩音乐还是拍电影。

So I had that going for me, whether it's playing music or or making films.

对吧？

Right?

所以我从青少年时期就开始做这些了。

So I was doing that since I was a teenager.

但那些没有接触过这些的人呢？

But what about people that don't have access to any of that?

那些从未体验过的人呢？

Who who have not experienced?

比如说，举个例子，我其实也不知道。

Let's say, for example, let's say my real I don't know.

我真正的热情。

My real passion.

我甚至都没体验过。

I haven't even experienced it.

比如说，可能是我也不知道。

Let's say it was I don't know.

海洋生物学。

Marine biology.

我也不知道。

I don't know.

就是一些随机的破事。

Just just random shit.

对吧？

Right?

假设我接触了海洋生物学，下一秒我就想，天啊。

Let's say I got exposed to marine biology and next thing you know, I'm like, holy fuck.

这就是我，老兄。

Like, that's me, man.

对吧？

Right?

但我从来没接触过它，所以它成了后来才绽放的。

But I I never got exposed to it, so it became a late bloomer.

这真是

That's a real

改变。

change.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

但我觉得这取决于个人，因为每个人的经历和接触都不同。

So but I I think it just depends on the person because everyone has different experiences and different exposure.

如果我们从内部角度来进一步探讨这一点的话。

And if we take an internal look just to kind of expand upon that.

对吧？

Right?

很可能外界并不存在某种你真正热爱的东西，因为你的热情源自内心。

Probably there's nothing out there that's your passion in the sense that your passion comes from within.

海洋生物学或其他任何事物中，都有一些元素会激发你内在的东西。

There are elements of marine biology or whatever it is that will activate what's inside.

但确实有些人就是喜欢与人互动。

But like there's some people that just love engaging with people.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以最终他们会找到属于自己的东西。

And so eventually they find something.

所以，你是如何定义自己的核心价值观的呢？希望会有一个机构或某种东西能契合你。

So how you define your core values and stuff, hopefully there is an institution or there's something out there that kind of fits you.

是的。

Yeah.

但有时候，人们实际上会完全重新定义某些东西。

But sometimes people actually define something completely.

我想问你一个问题。

Like, so I just wanna ask you something.

所以你的意思是，比如我举的例子，把海洋生物学说得太具体了。

So what you're trying to say is, for example, like when I gave it, my example was too specific of marine biology.

但如果你回溯一下，可能其实是对动物的热爱，或者可能是

But if you take it back, it may be, a love of animals, or maybe

它可能是，是的，

it could be like, yeah,

科学本身。

you know, science in general.

是的。

Yep.

你知道，生物学科学，但泛指生物学。

You know, you know, biology science, but biology in general.

是的。

Yep.

你知道，理解任何类型的身体运作方式。

You know, understanding the way, any type of, body works.

是的。

Yeah.

比如说，也许我更倾向于动物，你知道吗？

Let's say, you know, and just maybe I'm more I'll lean more towards animals, you know?

对。

Right.

例如。

For example.

所以你是说，是的。

So that so you Yep.

你一层层剥开，就会发现，嗯。

You you pull back the layers and you get down like Mhmm.

沟通。

Communication.

就像你，老兄。

Like, that's you, man.

你就是特别注重沟通。

Like, you you're all about communication.

是的。

Yeah.

而这正是

And that is

你的，是的。

your Yeah.

核心。

Core.

而这可以延伸到许多不同的方面，是的。

And that's that can go to many different Yeah.

你提到过层层剥离。

And you talked about peeling layers.

所以就像是你不断剥开一层又一层，最终回到你自己的核心价值观。

So it's like you keep peeling layers layers layers and you go back to your own core values.

你也会回到自己的性格类型。

You also go back to your own personality type.

是的。

Yeah.

我读过很多关于性格类型、MBTI以及内向、外向这些东西的资料。

I've done a lot of like reading around personality types and MBTI and you know, introversion, extroversion, all these things.

所以有些东西是天然存在的，比如你恰好是某种类型的人。

So there's some like natural phenomenon like you you happen to be a certain type of person.

所以是先天还是后天。

So nature versus nurture.

然后你希望以某种方式与社会建立联系，使你的兴趣恰好被包含在某个现有的行业中。

And then you hope to connect to society in a way where those interests of yours happen to be encapsulated in a specific existing industry.

是的。

Yeah.

但我认为你得非常幸运。

But I I think I think you gotta get really lucky.

对吧？

Right?

比如，我认为大多数人，显然，大多数人从未真正找到过。

Like, I think most people, right, obviously, I think most people never really find that.

对吧？

Right?

大多数人被困在他们不喜欢的工作中。

Most people are are stuck doing jobs that they don't like doing.

对吧？

Right?

但他们不得不。

But they have to.

得养活自己。

Gotta make a living.

要养家糊口。

They have mouths to feed.

他们得付房租，还有其他开销。

You they have rent to pay and stuff like that.

我认为世界上大多数人都这样。

I think most people on the in this world are are like that.

而那些幸运地找到既能谋生又充满热情的事情的人，确实只是极少数。

And I think the lucky few who do end up finding something, you know, like that can make a living and they're all passionate about are, you know, exactly the lucky few.

这样的人并不多。

They're not it's not a lot of them.