C.J. Ng：为何你在销售上一塌糊涂

What about from like the employee?

What about from like the employee?

Employee level, the person that's being managed, right?

Employee level, the person that's being managed, right?

How do you from that position, or do you have any advice from person that position, to give feedback upwards, instead of getting feedback downwards?

How do you from that position, or do you have any advice from person that position, to give feedback upwards, instead of getting feedback downwards?

Right.

Right.

Sure, absolutely.

Sure, absolutely.

And you just change the syntax, you change the word.

And you just change the syntax, you change the word.

You don't call it feedback, you call it suggestion.

You don't call it feedback, you call it suggestion.

OK.

OK.

So so the boss says, hey, I want you to do this, and this is how you do it, and off you go, and you can Tell the boss to say that, hey, um, I have a suggestion on how we can make this better. Can I just do this, this.

So so the boss says, hey, I want you to do this, and this is how you do it, and off you go, and you can Tell the boss to say that, hey, um, I have a suggestion on how we can make this better. Can I just do this, this.

this and this instead?

this and this instead?

Right, so so in in a in a in a way, uh, because of the kinds of um emotions that we kind of attach to what feedback, it's like you do something and I feedback to you, yeah, can be good can be bad.

Right, so so in in a in a in a way, uh, because of the kinds of um emotions that we kind of attach to what feedback, it's like you do something and I feedback to you, yeah, can be good can be bad.

Like I'm kind of judging you, right?

Like I'm kind of judging you, right?

Yeah, that that there's an element of judging in that.

Yeah, that that there's an element of judging in that.

There could be certain kinds of apprehension, uh, of of s- say, oh, oh, uh, boss, I wanna have, uh, give you some feedback, but.

There could be certain kinds of apprehension, uh, of of s- say, oh, oh, uh, boss, I wanna have, uh, give you some feedback, but.

If if you phrase it differently, I'm I'm say boss, I I I just like to make a suggestion.

If if you phrase it differently, I'm I'm say boss, I I I just like to make a suggestion.

Right, the suggestion part makes it softer, and it it it just sound like uh you uh You're you're building on, if if I'm the manager, you're building on my idea to make it better.

Right, the suggestion part makes it softer, and it it it just sound like uh you uh You're you're building on, if if I'm the manager, you're building on my idea to make it better.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

And and what I think also what you're implying there is also you're coming to them With already thought through solutions to present, right?

And and what I think also what you're implying there is also you're coming to them With already thought through solutions to present, right?

Uh huh.

Uh huh.

And instead of just pointing out problems, right?

And instead of just pointing out problems, right?

Because then you can be like a backseat driver, just like, basically just criticizing, but not actually offering any solutions.

Because then you can be like a backseat driver, just like, basically just criticizing, but not actually offering any solutions.

What is what are common scenarios of that?

What is what are common scenarios of that?

Like what what are, I mean for all of you guys, right?

Like what what are, I mean for all of you guys, right?

Because you are all, like, you've been in leadership positions as well.

Because you are all, like, you've been in leadership positions as well.

So, when when would be, and this is a question for all of you.

So, when when would be, and this is a question for all of you.

When would it be necessary for someone to, you know, share that feedback upwards?

When would it be necessary for someone to, you know, share that feedback upwards?

Well, don't ask how it because he runs his sets like a tyrant.

Well, don't ask how it because he runs his sets like a tyrant.

Like, no one dare speak unless spoken to.

Like, no one dare speak unless spoken to.

I mean, you can't even look him in the eye.

I mean, you can't even look him in the eye.

So don't look him in the eye.

So don't look him in the eye.

For that type of tyrant, and don't speak until spoken to.

For that type of tyrant, and don't speak until spoken to.

When would it be most valuable for you to actually hear that sentiment?

When would it be most valuable for you to actually hear that sentiment?

From some, you know, pion, many levels down.

From some, you know, pion, many levels down.

Yeah, what if the boom operator was like, hey, you know, I have an idea for the scene that you're shooting. Here are some suggestions.

Yeah, what if the boom operator was like, hey, you know, I have an idea for the scene that you're shooting. Here are some suggestions.

He's serious, ha ha ha.

He's serious, ha ha ha.

um, I didn't like the way you directed that last scene, by the way.

um, I didn't like the way you directed that last scene, by the way.

Yeah, see, see, imagine how he like scoffs at that, so, like, arrogantly.

Yeah, see, see, imagine how he like scoffs at that, so, like, arrogantly.

Like you know, he's like, that would never happen on my set.

Like you know, he's like, that would never happen on my set.

He's like, I only wanna hear the sound of my voice.

He's like, I only wanna hear the sound of my voice.

I don't know if CJ's lost right now.

I don't know if CJ's lost right now.

I'm not.

I'm not.

I'm good, I'm good, okay.

I'm good, I'm good, okay.

Let's keep him involved.

Let's keep him involved.

It's okay.

It's okay.

Let's not get all too much.

Let's not get all too much.

He gets it, this is all playing on the stuff that he's good at, right? He knows.

He gets it, this is all playing on the stuff that he's good at, right? He knows.

So, what's the answer?

So, what's the answer?

You're that big of a fucking tyrant.

You're that big of a fucking tyrant.

Do you ask, do you go around asking, like, hey, do you have a suggestion?

Do you ask, do you go around asking, like, hey, do you have a suggestion?

Always, no, of course, no, because I mean, I think personally, if you're gonna ask me, is in my particular situation and position, then I can answer that, but I also, yeah, the way I think about in general, because every position is different.

Always, no, of course, no, because I mean, I think personally, if you're gonna ask me, is in my particular situation and position, then I can answer that, but I also, yeah, the way I think about in general, because every position is different.

No, no, but you're you're a good example, because you're an example that's outside of the normal field that I think CJ deals with.

No, no, but you're you're a good example, because you're an example that's outside of the normal field that I think CJ deals with.

But there's parallels, but but there's parallels because he's in a leadership position, right?

But there's parallels, but but there's parallels because he's in a leadership position, right?

But it's very But what I do is very particular, right?

But it's very But what I do is very particular, right?

Because for example, there's a pre-production process, this production itself.

Because for example, there's a pre-production process, this production itself.

But every uh every um industry has a particular process.

But every uh every um industry has a particular process.

Exactly, sure, sure, sure.

Exactly, sure, sure, sure.

But you're nothing special.

But you're nothing special.

But I think what's unique is one, we know you're a tyrant, and then two, is in your field, most people are tyrants, is our imp- impression.

But I think what's unique is one, we know you're a tyrant, and then two, is in your field, most people are tyrants, is our imp- impression.

Yeah, so you've done nothing yet to dispel the claim that you are.

Yeah, so you've done nothing yet to dispel the claim that you are.

It's like the military.

It's like the military.

It's like the military.

It's like the military.

So, so basically in pre-production, that's where all All suggestions and all like possibilities are through are shared.

So, so basically in pre-production, that's where all All suggestions and all like possibilities are through are shared.

Yeah but who's included in that meeting So we have something called the主创 which is like the key creatives So every department has all the key creatives Yeah so if you're a lonely guy you're not you're not even gonna be If you will they have their key。

Yeah but who's included in that meeting So we have something called the主创 which is like the key creatives So every department has all the key creatives Yeah so if you're a lonely guy you're not you're not even gonna be If you will they have their key。

grip, and then they have their team.

grip, and then they have their team.

Yeah, the gaffer.

Yeah, the gaffer.

See how are we getting anywhere with this?

See how are we getting anywhere with this?

We're getting anywhere with this.

We're getting anywhere with this.

You're bringing getting that, I'm getting everywhere with this.

You're bringing getting that, I'm getting everywhere with this.

Key gaffers was that.

Key gaffers was that.

Ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha.

This is where the boomer starts kicking in.

This is where the boomer starts kicking in.

This is the fun shit.

This is the fun shit.

So yeah, so basically yeah, you gotta, uh, during pre-production, you get everything laid out, and then for me, the way I like to uh go is I always try to the way I like to run the show.

So yeah, so basically yeah, you gotta, uh, during pre-production, you get everything laid out, and then for me, the way I like to uh go is I always try to the way I like to run the show.

OK, but in all seriousness, that do does bring up an idea, and I wonder how you feel about this, CJ.

OK, but in all seriousness, that do does bring up an idea, and I wonder how you feel about this, CJ.

Is that, in his in his process, there is a designated time, routinely designated, that okay, this is when everyone offers your feedback.

Is that, in his in his process, there is a designated time, routinely designated, that okay, this is when everyone offers your feedback.

Right, this is the safe space, this is the when and why to do it.

Right, this is the safe space, this is the when and why to do it.

Yeah, and outside of this, once we made our decisions, okay, everyone we just gotta commit to it, we just roll in the same direction after that, right?

Yeah, and outside of this, once we made our decisions, okay, everyone we just gotta commit to it, we just roll in the same direction after that, right?

And so maybe is that like, ma-, that could be, I mean that could be very helpful in terms of uh you know, instead of just like, hey, whenever you feel like giving feedback, just give me feedback.

And so maybe is that like, ma-, that could be, I mean that could be very helpful in terms of uh you know, instead of just like, hey, whenever you feel like giving feedback, just give me feedback.

And you know people feel very apprehensive about that, maybe.

And you know people feel very apprehensive about that, maybe.

But if you make it a designated thing, like, OK, the whole point of this meeting right here is to give feedback, and we're gonna do this every time we do this, right?

But if you make it a designated thing, like, OK, the whole point of this meeting right here is to give feedback, and we're gonna do this every time we do this, right?

Right at a set time, then maybe people feel more permission to to actually give the feedback.

Right at a set time, then maybe people feel more permission to to actually give the feedback.

Yeah, right, and That absolutely, um, I'm I'm just going to draw and not yet another parallel.

Yeah, right, and That absolutely, um, I'm I'm just going to draw and not yet another parallel.

Let's use the military, right?

Let's use the military, right?

hmm, And in the military, it's it's even more hierarchical, right?

hmm, And in the military, it's it's even more hierarchical, right?

You don't questionhmm, Your superior order.

You don't questionhmm, Your superior order.

I don't know.

I don't know.

Seven.

Seven.

Not compared how we said.

Not compared how we said.

He's a dictator.

He's a dictator.

He's, he's okay.

He's, he's okay.

They call him, they call him.

They call him, they call him.

Generalism.

Generalism.

I get you, but iron fist Howie over here.

I get you, but iron fist Howie over here.

But I get you one.

But I get you one.

No, go on, sorry.

No, go on, sorry.

So, so.

So, so.

uh, But in in in military, in in outside of a operation, so so you're not in the field, you're not doing something dangerous, it's just your your your barracks doing your whatever you need to do.

uh, But in in in military, in in outside of a operation, so so you're not in the field, you're not doing something dangerous, it's just your your your barracks doing your whatever you need to do.

uh, Especially in the Singapore military, there is a scheme to get everybody to at least give one suggestion in written format, uh, on anything.

uh, Especially in the Singapore military, there is a scheme to get everybody to at least give one suggestion in written format, uh, on anything.

What when is this done?

What when is this done?

Just anytime they feel like, or well, at the end of the month, they'll start auditing and say that have you handed in the suggestion yes.

Just anytime they feel like, or well, at the end of the month, they'll start auditing and say that have you handed in the suggestion yes.

Is and is it anonymous or uh it's not anonymous, uh, because they they will pay you a nice token.

Is and is it anonymous or uh it's not anonymous, uh, because they they will pay you a nice token.

So it's not anonymous.

So it's not anonymous.

it's none and so the person who your feedback is targeting will know that you wrote that feedback.

it's none and so the person who your feedback is targeting will know that you wrote that feedback.

Well, it may not be to a person.

Well, it may not be to a person.

OK.

OK.

It may like to the system, to the system.

It may like to the system, to the system.

uh, Let's have a vending machine.

uh, Let's have a vending machine.

Let's have, you know, uh hot shower, uh, what what whatever.

Let's have, you know, uh hot shower, uh, what what whatever.

uh, Whe- whether that that um that suggestion is outlandish or not, it doesn't really matter.

uh, Whe- whether that that um that suggestion is outlandish or not, it doesn't really matter.

The the the whole idea is to um get people to give feedback of of all types.

The the the whole idea is to um get people to give feedback of of all types.

um, As long as it does not go into policy issues, or or strictly operational issues, right?

um, As long as it does not go into policy issues, or or strictly operational issues, right?

So so so, there is a red line there.

So so so, there is a red line there.

That that's red line, you don't you don't you don't touch that.

That that's red line, you don't you don't you don't touch that.

And even if it if it touches the red line, you just get rejected and say, That's not what we want.

And even if it if it touches the red line, you just get rejected and say, That's not what we want.

We do it, ha ha ha.

We do it, ha ha ha.

Submit it in something else.

Submit it in something else.

We need another one, we need another one.

We need another one, we need another one.

And and um um the the last we did it was like for every uh suggestion that we submit, we we get a dollar, single dollar.

And and um um the the last we did it was like for every uh suggestion that we submit, we we get a dollar, single dollar.

For it, whether uh a- as long as it's a qualified one.

For it, whether uh a- as long as it's a qualified one.

So so as that there's this this this kind of feedback from from every rank and file, just.

So so as that there's this this this kind of feedback from from every rank and file, just.

And all Singaporeans have to serve in the military, right?

And all Singaporeans have to serve in the military, right?

All able body male, male, not the female.

All able body male, male, not the female.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So so that, um, so so what I'm getting is there are There are times when we are not doing something that is really, um, we're not on a specific task, it's not specific to execute an order.

So so that, um, so so what I'm getting is there are There are times when we are not doing something that is really, um, we're not on a specific task, it's not specific to execute an order.

There is room, there's a time and place, because if you're like on the set, and you're doing all the stuff, and like every second is money.

There is room, there's a time and place, because if you're like on the set, and you're doing all the stuff, and like every second is money.

This is all well and good, I just feel like my personal.

This is all well and good, I just feel like my personal.

Concept of feedback has been tainted.

Concept of feedback has been tainted.

Ha ha ha.

Ha ha ha.

And and I'll explain why, and and admittedly, I it it might be very outdated, right?

And and I'll explain why, and and admittedly, I it it might be very outdated, right?

So, when I was running a company here in China, this was several years ago, and how we we were we were both part of that company, and And we would have these like meetings, right?

So, when I was running a company here in China, this was several years ago, and how we we were we were both part of that company, and And we would have these like meetings, right?

These, w- wha- what we hoped were gonna be these open discussion meetings on our products and what people thought.

These, w- wha- what we hoped were gonna be these open discussion meetings on our products and what people thought.

um, And and kind of like really use that information really to dictate wha- what price we're gonna sell it for, whether we even make this product or not, you know?

um, And and kind of like really use that information really to dictate wha- what price we're gonna sell it for, whether we even make this product or not, you know?

So we wanted everyone's feedback, and we kind of made sure that The people who were bring in were diverse group of people from all different departments, right?

So we wanted everyone's feedback, and we kind of made sure that The people who were bring in were diverse group of people from all different departments, right?

And even different levels of that department.

And even different levels of that department.

So there were juniors involved in that meeting as well.

So there were juniors involved in that meeting as well.

And we were kind of coming in maybe naively with the American mindset of, oh, everyone's gonna wanna voice their opinion, right?

And we were kind of coming in maybe naively with the American mindset of, oh, everyone's gonna wanna voice their opinion, right?

So, why don't we just hold this meeting and sit there in the meeting and have everyone just Come, like really just honestly give us feedback about what we're doing here, uh huh, and the products themselves. Sure. What ended up happening inevitably with every meeting.

So, why don't we just hold this meeting and sit there in the meeting and have everyone just Come, like really just honestly give us feedback about what we're doing here, uh huh, and the products themselves. Sure. What ended up happening inevitably with every meeting.

Was, everyone else was just silent.

Was, everyone else was just silent.

They didn't really wanna criticize the thing or whatever, or maybe stick out or or say something, yeah, going against the grain even.

They didn't really wanna criticize the thing or whatever, or maybe stick out or or say something, yeah, going against the grain even.

And we were always very disappointed in that.

And we were always very disappointed in that.

So, I don't know if that culture has changed from then to now, maybe it has.

So, I don't know if that culture has changed from then to now, maybe it has.

You know, my biggest hurdle was always how do you genuinely give people the feeling of, they really genuinely have permission to give the honest feedback.

You know, my biggest hurdle was always how do you genuinely give people the feeling of, they really genuinely have permission to give the honest feedback.

And instead of just saying it, some people might not really believe that, right?

And instead of just saying it, some people might not really believe that, right?

I'm I'm interested in what permission.

I'm I'm interested in what permission.

You mentioned, you know, that they gave themselves permission. So so why are they not having that permission?

You mentioned, you know, that they gave themselves permission. So so why are they not having that permission?

I I don't know.

I I don't know.

I just chopped it up to a cultural thing, and and maybe maybe that's too simplistic, and it would just wasn't very productive.

I just chopped it up to a cultural thing, and and maybe maybe that's too simplistic, and it would just wasn't very productive.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

I mean, I I think that's such a great example.

I mean, I I think that's such a great example.

Right of, you know, cross cultural communication, right?

Right of, you know, cross cultural communication, right?

Like, I mean, like obviously like you you could unpack this, but I think that's such a like, if you had You know, a hundred other Justins and Howies, and you did the same thing despite all those positive intentions.

Like, I mean, like obviously like you you could unpack this, but I think that's such a like, if you had You know, a hundred other Justins and Howies, and you did the same thing despite all those positive intentions.

Unless you had a deeper understanding of some of the cross-cultural communications issues, and you had like You know more effective techniques.

Unless you had a deeper understanding of some of the cross-cultural communications issues, and you had like You know more effective techniques.

Like all hundred pairs of how in justin's would have pretty much met the same fate.

Like all hundred pairs of how in justin's would have pretty much met the same fate.

And if you'd done this in, you know, in France versus um you know Russia versus like the US, you would get like s-, you know sort of variations of different outcomes, and some would be better than sort of worse.

And if you'd done this in, you know, in France versus um you know Russia versus like the US, you would get like s-, you know sort of variations of different outcomes, and some would be better than sort of worse.

But it's so interesting that you mentioned that, because it's just so.

But it's so interesting that you mentioned that, because it's just so.

It's like that's exactly what you would expect, is that you would have this issue.

It's like that's exactly what you would expect, is that you would have this issue.

And then if you did this in Japan or Korea, it might even be worse.

And then if you did this in Japan or Korea, it might even be worse.

Yeah, I I I'll say that besides the the real cultural uh perspective.

Yeah, I I I'll say that besides the the real cultural uh perspective.

There is also the lack of trust.

There is also the lack of trust.

hmm, As in, if I, if I'm, if I'm one of your employees, and you want to have feedback, and I don't really have a high opinion of what you're you're trying to do.

hmm, As in, if I, if I'm, if I'm one of your employees, and you want to have feedback, and I don't really have a high opinion of what you're you're trying to do.

And I voice my thoughts, what's gonna happen to me?

And I voice my thoughts, what's gonna happen to me?

Right?

Right?

I mean uh you guys may mean no harm, but I don't know, because no one has done it.

I mean uh you guys may mean no harm, but I don't know, because no one has done it.

Or the even the un- unintentional harm, right?

Or the even the un- unintentional harm, right?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So so so, uh, if if I if I don't feel the kind of safety, uh, to to say what what's on my mind.

So so so, uh, if if I if I don't feel the kind of safety, uh, to to say what what's on my mind.

Then uh I'm I'm I'm gonna say yes, everything is good.

Then uh I'm I'm I'm gonna say yes, everything is good.

You you you guys are the best boss.

You you you guys are the best boss.

Yeah, because what's the what's the incentive for that person?

Yeah, because what's the what's the incentive for that person?

Yeah, right.

Yeah, right.

Like, it is so interesting with the Singapore, the military thing.

Like, it is so interesting with the Singapore, the military thing.

They built a a whole culture out of it, and then they incentivize you like a dollar.

They built a a whole culture out of it, and then they incentivize you like a dollar.

It's like it's safe, kind of like uh you know you, it's almost like a puppy, yeah, or whatever, right?

It's like it's safe, kind of like uh you know you, it's almost like a puppy, yeah, or whatever, right?

And it's like, no, no, no, it's okay, right?

And it's like, no, no, no, it's okay, right?

You first meet a stray dog or whatever, and then you give it a treat, and then like you have to train it.

You first meet a stray dog or whatever, and then you give it a treat, and then like you have to train it.

So that it knows that over time, oh, this is OK thing to do.

So that it knows that over time, oh, this is OK thing to do.

But I, it would be curious to see, like, if you did some of this.

But I, it would be curious to see, like, if you did some of this.

We are giving, and firstly, no one breaks for lunch until until we got something.

We are giving, and firstly, no one breaks for lunch until until we got something.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

Right.

Right.

Number two, everybody write on anonymously on some post its or some- oh, this is anonymous.

Number two, everybody write on anonymously on some post its or some- oh, this is anonymous.

No, no, I mean, taking into into that their example, right?

No, no, I mean, taking into into that their example, right?

Not not the, not the military type.

Not not the, not the military type.

But if I if I were in your shoes, I'll get people to write whatever they feel like saying.

But if I if I were in your shoes, I'll get people to write whatever they feel like saying.

Or it, to to phrase it in a certain direction, uh, as in, this is our plan, and I would like to have suggestions on how you think you can make this better, right? And everybody needs to put up with three.

Or it, to to phrase it in a certain direction, uh, as in, this is our plan, and I would like to have suggestions on how you think you can make this better, right? And everybody needs to put up with three.

uh, suggestion somehow, and write it anonymously on a posted note, clustered or somewhere on a whiteboard, and then we got a wall full of whatever, yeah, right.

uh, suggestion somehow, and write it anonymously on a posted note, clustered or somewhere on a whiteboard, and then we got a wall full of whatever, yeah, right.

So so if if that is a case, it's anonymized.

So so if if that is a case, it's anonymized.

It's pushing to a di- direction.

It's pushing to a di- direction.

uh, People are doing it, and uh no one no one needs to know who wrote what.

uh, People are doing it, and uh no one no one needs to know who wrote what.

If you say something, and then you piss the boss off kind of dynamic, right?

If you say something, and then you piss the boss off kind of dynamic, right?

And I would say that you have to explain like why, what's the benefit?

And I would say that you have to explain like why, what's the benefit?

uh huh.

uh huh.

Cause if it is just like, oh, it benefits You know, like imagine it benefits you got, you both of you, so that you can fire them or something like that.

Cause if it is just like, oh, it benefits You know, like imagine it benefits you got, you both of you, so that you can fire them or something like that.

Yeah, like if I stick my neck out, there's only downside, like, exactly.

Yeah, like if I stick my neck out, there's only downside, like, exactly.

What's the upside?

What's the upside?

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

And we were very coming from the American mindset of everyone's gonna be like very boisterous and rambunctious and very opinionated, right?

And we were very coming from the American mindset of everyone's gonna be like very boisterous and rambunctious and very opinionated, right?

Like like very like almost confrontational like they're Be happy to like face to face talk, and I think what you said is very good, just make it anonymous, write it down.

Like like very like almost confrontational like they're Be happy to like face to face talk, and I think what you said is very good, just make it anonymous, write it down.

It it even just that, just immediately makes it less confrontational, yeah, than like me, like face to face talking to you, like looking you in your eye, yeah, right, yeah.

It it even just that, just immediately makes it less confrontational, yeah, than like me, like face to face talking to you, like looking you in your eye, yeah, right, yeah.

And so, yeah, I think I think that goes a long way.

And so, yeah, I think I think that goes a long way.

You have to explain why, as well.

You have to explain why, as well.

What's the purpose of this?

What's the purpose of this?

Because if they don't, what's their interest in it for them?

Because if they don't, what's their interest in it for them?

Yeah, the, and but you pointed out like like stick the neck out thing, that's like a big thing.

Yeah, the, and but you pointed out like like stick the neck out thing, that's like a big thing.

Meaning that like no matter, like even if you said I'll give you 10,000 dollars, they'll be like, nah, it's probably not worth it.

Meaning that like no matter, like even if you said I'll give you 10,000 dollars, they'll be like, nah, it's probably not worth it.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

So there's that aspect, and there's the whole what's- I, oh, this is gonna make it better for all of us, because what we want ideas So the company can be more successful, and you know.

So there's that aspect, and there's the whole what's- I, oh, this is gonna make it better for all of us, because what we want ideas So the company can be more successful, and you know.

and we can open more stores, blah blah blah blah, whatever it is.

and we can open more stores, blah blah blah blah, whatever it is.

And and this this is what I'm going to say is is going to pay homage to to Gabbo, shout out to him as well.

And and this this is what I'm going to say is is going to pay homage to to Gabbo, shout out to him as well.

If you want to have feedback, even if it's not written down.

If you want to have feedback, even if it's not written down.

I said, you guys, you you are the managers of the company, you want your people to give some feedback to you, and no one saying anything, and uh you don't have pieces of paper, no one can write anything.

I said, you guys, you you are the managers of the company, you want your people to give some feedback to you, and no one saying anything, and uh you don't have pieces of paper, no one can write anything.

All you need to do is to break them into groups.

All you need to do is to break them into groups.

And awesome have a group discussion, and then get each group nominate someone to share, right?

And awesome have a group discussion, and then get each group nominate someone to share, right?

And that's what we do in training as well, and.

And that's what we do in training as well, and.

Culturally, what what happens in China and Asia is whoever you nominate to say something on behalf of the group, uh, they will start with, these are the conclusion of our group's discussion.

Culturally, what what happens in China and Asia is whoever you nominate to say something on behalf of the group, uh, they will start with, these are the conclusion of our group's discussion.

That words, if I say the wrong thing, don't shoot.

That words, if I say the wrong thing, don't shoot.

Not on me, it's not me.

Not on me, it's not me.

Don't shoot the messenger, don't shoot the messenger.

Don't shoot the messenger, don't shoot the messenger.

Right, so so yeah, there there's safety in that actually.

Right, so so yeah, there there's safety in that actually.

That's true.

That's true.

Yeah, and and on the flip side, that's where we'll link back to sales.

Yeah, and and on the flip side, that's where we'll link back to sales.

Because if you really uh want to stand out in your career these days, even trying in Asia.

Because if you really uh want to stand out in your career these days, even trying in Asia.

You need to you need to make suggestions that your manager, your boss like.

You need to you need to make suggestions that your manager, your boss like.

And I'm not saying you suck up to whoever that is, uh, because generally, um, in in a.

And I'm not saying you suck up to whoever that is, uh, because generally, um, in in a.

What what they call a a in a company where you are measured by results, by performance.

What what they call a a in a company where you are measured by results, by performance.

Bosses would like to get suggestions on how they can do their jobs better, right?

Bosses would like to get suggestions on how they can do their jobs better, right?

So any any any help is is appreciated.

So any any any help is is appreciated.

The question is how you phrase the help.

The question is how you phrase the help.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

So, it may, the the the bits of suggestions that you get may not come from a public meeting.

So, it may, the the the bits of suggestions that you get may not come from a public meeting.

'cause people may feel that I don't want to do this in public, I don't want to be seen as a show off, and that could be some risk that my suggestion may fall flat.

'cause people may feel that I don't want to do this in public, I don't want to be seen as a show off, and that could be some risk that my suggestion may fall flat.

But if I if I want to advance my career, I can approach my manager after the meeting to say that, and know what what what you say uh in the meeting of the reflection.

But if I if I want to advance my career, I can approach my manager after the meeting to say that, and know what what what you say uh in the meeting of the reflection.

Here's what I thought, and if I want to be really good in that, um, how we was was talking about what what is the director's uh clear vision in that.

Here's what I thought, and if I want to be really good in that, um, how we was was talking about what what is the director's uh clear vision in that.

Sometimes bosses, we we are not afraid of dictatorial bosses.

Sometimes bosses, we we are not afraid of dictatorial bosses.

We are afraid of bosses that do not know what they want.

We are afraid of bosses that do not know what they want.

They want.

They want.

hmm, Yeah, right.

hmm, Yeah, right.

So so if if you if you are a tyrant, but you you are very clear, this is what I want, just I don't care what you do, but deliver this for me, right?

So so if if you if you are a tyrant, but you you are very clear, this is what I want, just I don't care what you do, but deliver this for me, right?

So, if if if you are, yeah, clear.

So, if if if you are, yeah, clear.

Benevolent and competent dictator.

Benevolent and competent dictator.

Yes, ha ha ha.

Yes, ha ha ha.

No, that's one of the things I've learned as well.

No, that's one of the things I've learned as well.

I mean, as from, in my position, from being a benevolent and semi-.

I mean, as from, in my position, from being a benevolent and semi-.

No, that makes of a trip.

No, that makes of a trip.

But, yeah, go ahead, finish your trip.

But, yeah, go ahead, finish your trip.

So, so with with the tyrant is, if I'm the sales type of uh employee, I'll tell tyrant, you know, this is a clear picture that you want, and here's a suggestion that I feel, I think that will make it easier, better or more productive to reach your goal. For.

So, so with with the tyrant is, if I'm the sales type of uh employee, I'll tell tyrant, you know, this is a clear picture that you want, and here's a suggestion that I feel, I think that will make it easier, better or more productive to reach your goal. For.

the team, for the team, for the team, for your goal, for your vision.

the team, for the team, for the team, for your goal, for your vision.

The boss knows it.

The boss knows it.

I mean every every boss wants uh I mean it's it it can be I think um a little bit um isolating or lonely to be the boss sometimes.

I mean every every boss wants uh I mean it's it it can be I think um a little bit um isolating or lonely to be the boss sometimes.

Ahem.

Ahem.

And what they want is a thought partner.

And what they want is a thought partner.

And and you know, basically I think what you're saying is is very on point.

And and you know, basically I think what you're saying is is very on point.

um, The first thing you would wanna do though, is before even bring up your idea.

um, The first thing you would wanna do though, is before even bring up your idea.

Is to validate your understanding of the bigger goal.

Is to validate your understanding of the bigger goal.

So you would go like, oh, LaBon and Howie, you know?

So you would go like, oh, LaBon and Howie, you know?

Like, it sounds like what I just heard from you.

Like, it sounds like what I just heard from you.

You said X, Y and Z, and you just play back.

You said X, Y and Z, and you just play back.

There's like very little risk there.

There's like very little risk there.

You said X, Y and Z, is that right?

You said X, Y and Z, is that right?

And then you just pause.

And then you just pause.

How we will come back and be like, oh, X, Y, Z and A, B and C.

How we will come back and be like, oh, X, Y, Z and A, B and C.

And then then you start sort of having a dialogue, oh A, B and C.

And then then you start sort of having a dialogue, oh A, B and C.

What do you mean by that?

What do you mean by that?

Oh, and then you synthesize it, you say X, Y, Z, A, B and C. I have an idea.

Oh, and then you synthesize it, you say X, Y, Z, A, B and C. I have an idea.

Right, and now it makes a lot more sense to me.

Right, and now it makes a lot more sense to me.

Thank you for sharing that.

Thank you for sharing that.

Oh, for A, B, and C, we can do D, A, D, E, N, F.

Oh, for A, B, and C, we can do D, A, D, E, N, F.

What do you think?

What do you think?

And then, even if it's not right.

And then, even if it's not right.

Because you've already rooted it in his vision, then how he would be like, oh, well, d, e, d and e are right, F, this is why it's not right, and this is wh- why he's the boss.

Because you've already rooted it in his vision, then how he would be like, oh, well, d, e, d and e are right, F, this is why it's not right, and this is wh- why he's the boss.

And then you would be like, oh, there's H, uh huh.

And then you would be like, oh, there's H, uh huh.

Say, oh, love it, oh H, right?

Say, oh, love it, oh H, right?

And then it's just, it's just okay, Jay.

And then it's just, it's just okay, Jay.

And then it's like, okay, what could I do to help on H?

And then it's like, okay, what could I do to help on H?

Do you, is there something in my skill set to do H?

Do you, is there something in my skill set to do H?

Yes, boom, right?

Yes, boom, right?

So, I mean, this is the stuff that I'm sure you, I love the validating part, because then immediately.

So, I mean, this is the stuff that I'm sure you, I love the validating part, because then immediately.

You validate yourself in their eyes in terms of, oh, you get me.

You validate yourself in their eyes in terms of, oh, you get me.

Ahem.

Ahem.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Like you get the vision here.

Like you get the vision here.

And then now, you almost like, you can almost like, you you you have a lot more room to play.

And then now, you almost like, you can almost like, you you you have a lot more room to play.

Like I think what you're saying, Eric.

Like I think what you're saying, Eric.

Once once you validate like, oh, you get his vision.

Once once you validate like, oh, you get his vision.

Yeah, because then he feels like he really has someone to like bounce ideas off.

Yeah, because then he feels like he really has someone to like bounce ideas off.

And and the biggestUh, Challenge in a workplace today, especially in Asia, is the normal rank and file employees validate to a little.

And and the biggestUh, Challenge in a workplace today, especially in Asia, is the normal rank and file employees validate to a little.

They are too afraid to say that this is a tyrant boss, this a dictator.

They are too afraid to say that this is a tyrant boss, this a dictator.

And when I'm not clear about what they want, I just pretend I know.

And when I'm not clear about what they want, I just pretend I know.

hmm, Right, and uh 9 of 10 times I deliver wrong thing, I really, I just get shit from from the dictatorial boss.

hmm, Right, and uh 9 of 10 times I deliver wrong thing, I really, I just get shit from from the dictatorial boss.

But if if I had taken the time and courage to check with uh the manager say, uh, let me just double check with you, uh, do you just want A, B, C, or do you want D, E, F as well?

But if if I had taken the time and courage to check with uh the manager say, uh, let me just double check with you, uh, do you just want A, B, C, or do you want D, E, F as well?

And uh what's what's the rationale behind it?

And uh what's what's the rationale behind it?

Exactly what you said, I think people are really afraid to come across like, as if they don't get it.

Exactly what you said, I think people are really afraid to come across like, as if they don't get it.

Yeah, right?

Yeah, right?

um, Because I, and I, and I get it too, because like you you seem dumb, you seem vulnerable, you Whatever it is, right?

um, Because I, and I, and I get it too, because like you you seem dumb, you seem vulnerable, you Whatever it is, right?

It it's a very vulnerable place to be in, to admit that, oh wait, I didn't get that.

It it's a very vulnerable place to be in, to admit that, oh wait, I didn't get that.

Can you please repeat that or help me understand what you're trying to say?

Can you please repeat that or help me understand what you're trying to say?

The boss basically is expecting you, but totally get it.

The boss basically is expecting you, but totally get it.

It it almost backfires a lot of times, totally.

It it almost backfires a lot of times, totally.

Because once you say, oh, I get it, but you really don't.

Because once you say, oh, I get it, but you really don't.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then the boss goes away.

And then the boss goes away.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now you're in the charge.

Now you're in the charge.

And expectations even higher.

And expectations even higher.

Expectations are like, oh, I don't know.

Expectations are like, oh, I don't know.

You're in charge of this task now.

You're in charge of this task now.

Now what do you do?

Now what do you do?

You're you're in a really tough spot.

You're you're in a really tough spot.

And it it just goes to like like of all my years working in China, I have asked many times to many people.

And it it just goes to like like of all my years working in China, I have asked many times to many people.

Yeah, oh, uh uh, did you get it?

Yeah, oh, uh uh, did you get it?

You get what I'm trying to say?

You get what I'm trying to say?

Like, in a, and not even in an authoritative way, I'm just like Like genuinely asking, like, because I know my Chinese isn't as good sometimes.

Like, in a, and not even in an authoritative way, I'm just like Like genuinely asking, like, because I know my Chinese isn't as good sometimes.

So, I'm like, oh, do, should I like repeat this, or should I explain it in a different way?

So, I'm like, oh, do, should I like repeat this, or should I explain it in a different way?

Because I really want to make sure you get it.

Because I really want to make sure you get it.

Yeah, because I know maybe I'm not the best communicator.

Yeah, because I know maybe I'm not the best communicator.

And I have never once, not one person has ever told me, no, I don't get it, please explain it to me, or please repeat that.

And I have never once, not one person has ever told me, no, I don't get it, please explain it to me, or please repeat that.

And there's a there's a significant percentage of those people that I know in my heart just didn't get it.

And there's a there's a significant percentage of those people that I know in my heart just didn't get it.

So so here here are two things, right? So one is That.

So so here here are two things, right? So one is That.

Almost by definition, the the boss or the manager hmm is gonna be way more seasoned and more experienced than the front line worker.

Almost by definition, the the boss or the manager hmm is gonna be way more seasoned and more experienced than the front line worker.

And so the expectation from like the human psychology level is that.

And so the expectation from like the human psychology level is that.

They're not gonna be able to understand your thought process.

They're not gonna be able to understand your thought process.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

That's the problem, right?

That's the problem, right?

They're not gonna be able to understand the psychology of a boss because they're new.

They're not gonna be able to understand the psychology of a boss because they're new.

There is always this um discrepancy of expectations between two parties no matter how Senior or junior either party is there's always what I think this is and what you think this is can be quite different So simple example right So if you if you have an阿。

There is always this um discrepancy of expectations between two parties no matter how Senior or junior either party is there's always what I think this is and what you think this is can be quite different So simple example right So if you if you have an阿。

姨 at home uh help at home touh Clean the house and if you just hired someone new and you just ask her to say mop the floor right Simple thing mop the floor But What are what are the key deliverables What are the key outcomes of。

姨 at home uh help at home touh Clean the house and if you just hired someone new and you just ask her to say mop the floor right Simple thing mop the floor But What are what are the key deliverables What are the key outcomes of。

mopping the floor?

mopping the floor?

Do you first have to sweep the floor or vacuum the floor, or you just start with the mop?

Do you first have to sweep the floor or vacuum the floor, or you just start with the mop?

hmm.

hmm.

Do you need to put detergent into the water?

Do you need to put detergent into the water?

Right?

Right?

If you put detergent in the water, do you need to rinse it with clear water?

If you put detergent in the water, do you need to rinse it with clear water?

Right?

Right?

If you rinse it with clear water, if you have marble or or parquet flooring, do you need to dry the floor?

If you rinse it with clear water, if you have marble or or parquet flooring, do you need to dry the floor?

Right, so so uh there are there are different um expectations for something that is so simple as mopping the floor, and uh the the the helper is probably working under The impression that she got from her previous employer.

Right, so so uh there are there are different um expectations for something that is so simple as mopping the floor, and uh the the the helper is probably working under The impression that she got from her previous employer.

right?

right?

And and what your expectations can be totally different.

And and what your expectations can be totally different.

So so and and um part ofuh, And again, coming back to sales, part of what the leader, the manager has to do, is to also explain the why. Why are we doing this a certain way? It's.

So so and and um part ofuh, And again, coming back to sales, part of what the leader, the manager has to do, is to also explain the why. Why are we doing this a certain way? It's.

Probably not possible to get people to really understand how you think, but at the very least, you you can get them to understand your rationale, right?

Probably not possible to get people to really understand how you think, but at the very least, you you can get them to understand your rationale, right?

The reason we do A, B and C is because we want to get to So, an objective.

The reason we do A, B and C is because we want to get to So, an objective.

So, I I hope you understand this is this is why we are doing this.

So, I I hope you understand this is this is why we are doing this.

um, The other thing is also, if if it's a task based kind of thing, uh, you can ask the other person to repeat back to you.

um, The other thing is also, if if it's a task based kind of thing, uh, you can ask the other person to repeat back to you.

You know, this is what I need done.

You know, this is what I need done.

Do you understand?

Do you understand?

Yeah, so can you repeat back to me?

Yeah, so can you repeat back to me?

What what what what are your steps forward?

What what what what are your steps forward?

Mm hmm, right?

Mm hmm, right?

And why?

And why?

You can actually be like, and I'm just, you know, I'm curious.

You can actually be like, and I'm just, you know, I'm curious.

um, You know why are we doing this? hmm. Right, and.

um, You know why are we doing this? hmm. Right, and.

Uh, What else do you think we're missing?

Uh, What else do you think we're missing?

Because you're truly then involving them in the decision making.

Because you're truly then involving them in the decision making.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, right.

So, it's it's it's it's interesting because both of you had very positive intentions, and it's just a subtle shift in the language.

So, it's it's it's it's interesting because both of you had very positive intentions, and it's just a subtle shift in the language.

Like just taking that extra step, right?

Like just taking that extra step, right?

Viewing them as true collaborators versus like, oh, you're the boss and you're trying to get feedback.

Viewing them as true collaborators versus like, oh, you're the boss and you're trying to get feedback.

Then it's sort of like one way a little bit.

Then it's sort of like one way a little bit.

Yeah, cause there's a hierarchy.

Yeah, cause there's a hierarchy.

But truly, it's like kids.

But truly, it's like kids.

If you treat them like just kids, then they're just gonna be kids.

If you treat them like just kids, then they're just gonna be kids.

And if you treat them a little bit closer to being an adult, then they start to understand the rationale behind things, and then they start to be able to behave and react in a way that's Maybe a little bit more.

And if you treat them a little bit closer to being an adult, then they start to understand the rationale behind things, and then they start to be able to behave and react in a way that's Maybe a little bit more.

there's more parity in that.

there's more parity in that.

I was uh I was thinking of something earlier, and I, yeah, we don't have to spend too much time on this, but I just want to kind of, just get your ideas, your your thoughts on this. Is that um.

I was uh I was thinking of something earlier, and I, yeah, we don't have to spend too much time on this, but I just want to kind of, just get your ideas, your your thoughts on this. Is that um.

Do you do you guys think there's a, and this is for everybody.

Do you do you guys think there's a, and this is for everybody.

Do you guys think there's a intrinsic difference in the quality of feedback between anonymous feedback versus non-anonymous feedback?

Do you guys think there's a intrinsic difference in the quality of feedback between anonymous feedback versus non-anonymous feedback?

I think there's a debate there to be had, right? There's pros and cons to both. Yeah.

I think there's a debate there to be had, right? There's pros and cons to both. Yeah.

A A A lot of these debates depends on the context.

A A A lot of these debates depends on the context.

So, uh, why why do we want anonymize feedback?

So, uh, why why do we want anonymize feedback?

Kind of, we kind of make the assumption that people will not tell the truth.

Kind of, we kind of make the assumption that people will not tell the truth.

For the fear of repercussions, yeah, right?

For the fear of repercussions, yeah, right?

But what if um we can convince everybody that there will be no repercussions?

But what if um we can convince everybody that there will be no repercussions?

So so it it's it really depends on the organizational culture, how things are being done.

So so it it's it really depends on the organizational culture, how things are being done.

Was there, were there cases of shooting the messenger?

Was there, were there cases of shooting the messenger?

Or were were are are are we able to accept feedback as it is, no matter how outlandish, how ridiculous it is, but still We just discuss the feedback, we don't care about who says it.

Or were were are are are we able to accept feedback as it is, no matter how outlandish, how ridiculous it is, but still We just discuss the feedback, we don't care about who says it.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

Right.

Right.

So so so it's it's it's a matter of how you deal with uh people who don't stand in line, and uh is that, does everybody feel safe to share whatever is on their mind?

So so so it's it's it's a matter of how you deal with uh people who don't stand in line, and uh is that, does everybody feel safe to share whatever is on their mind?

Well, and and if you get anonymous feedback, it's gonna typically be written.

Well, and and if you get anonymous feedback, it's gonna typically be written.

Right, and so you're gonna get maybe like um sort of a limited, the the power of the descriptiveness is gonna be limited.

Right, and so you're gonna get maybe like um sort of a limited, the the power of the descriptiveness is gonna be limited.

But let's say that I'm able to actually deliver you, we have the trust.

But let's say that I'm able to actually deliver you, we have the trust.

Like CJ saying, and we have, you know, the opportunity that I can share that feedback that you know with color, right?

Like CJ saying, and we have, you know, the opportunity that I can share that feedback that you know with color, right?

Reading an anonymous feedback saying that, oh, you suck as a manager.

Reading an anonymous feedback saying that, oh, you suck as a manager.

Versus like I can come up to you and talk to you, hey, I have su- some suggestions, because I really trust you, and we have a long working relationship.

Versus like I can come up to you and talk to you, hey, I have su- some suggestions, because I really trust you, and we have a long working relationship.

The impact is going to be completely different.

The impact is going to be completely different.

You know what I'm saying, like reading it versus actually having the conversation.

You know what I'm saying, like reading it versus actually having the conversation.

Yeah, and I think I think there's a Thing about anonymous feedback from the from the party that's getting the receiving the feedback is, because it's anonymous, you don't fully always trust the feedback either.

Yeah, and I think I think there's a Thing about anonymous feedback from the from the party that's getting the receiving the feedback is, because it's anonymous, you don't fully always trust the feedback either.

hmm, Right?

hmm, Right?

The other side.

The other side.

Because you can just be like, oh, people are talking shit, because they know they can get away with it, right?

Because you can just be like, oh, people are talking shit, because they know they can get away with it, right?

That that even if it's not true, there's a little bit of there's no context. Yeah, there's no context. Exactly.

That that even if it's not true, there's a little bit of there's no context. Yeah, there's no context. Exactly.

Instead, when the person is, when you know who's giving the feedback, and especially like Eric said, if you can talk face to face, there's a there's a certain trust from uh huh both sides already.

Instead, when the person is, when you know who's giving the feedback, and especially like Eric said, if you can talk face to face, there's a there's a certain trust from uh huh both sides already.

especially from the trust uh side of like the person getting the feedback of oh, this person's approaching me.

especially from the trust uh side of like the person getting the feedback of oh, this person's approaching me.

They're they're they're earnestly telling me something, yeah, you know, instead of just some anonymous thing, right?

They're they're they're earnestly telling me something, yeah, you know, instead of just some anonymous thing, right?

There's a dialogue behind it as well.

There's a dialogue behind it as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because of the lack of context.

Because of the lack of context.

You're not able to even get uh gain clarification.

You're not able to even get uh gain clarification.

So if I get anonymous feedback to say I suck, and and I really want to improve myself, so if you really can point out why I suck, that will be helpful.

So if I get anonymous feedback to say I suck, and and I really want to improve myself, so if you really can point out why I suck, that will be helpful.

But because it's anonymous, and it's just, to us, you suck.

But because it's anonymous, and it's just, to us, you suck.

It's very easy to disregard.

It's very easy to disregard.

It's like, and I I I don't know how to take action.

It's like, and I I I don't know how to take action.

Well, it's there, but it's also just very easy to throw away and disregard, and then it it that becomes pointless.

Well, it's there, but it's also just very easy to throw away and disregard, and then it it that becomes pointless.

How do you act on it?

How do you act on it?

Because it could be like Oh, it only happens during certain situations, or it only, you know what I'm saying?

Because it could be like Oh, it only happens during certain situations, or it only, you know what I'm saying?

There's so much nuance to it.

There's so much nuance to it.

All right, um, I wanna, uh, we're gonna wrap it up soon, but I wanna I wanna jump back to this idea of um sales as a skill.

All right, um, I wanna, uh, we're gonna wrap it up soon, but I wanna I wanna jump back to this idea of um sales as a skill.

Yeah, and the reason why I wanna jump back to that is because I view myself personally uh huh as a bad salesperson.

Yeah, and the reason why I wanna jump back to that is because I view myself personally uh huh as a bad salesperson.

Ok.

Ok.

I don't, I I feel like that's probably a weakness, if I would have to nitpick about myself.

I don't, I I feel like that's probably a weakness, if I would have to nitpick about myself.

Like, uh huh I don't I don't think I'm a good salesperson.

Like, uh huh I don't I don't think I'm a good salesperson.

Ok.

Ok.

um, And but I do agree that in any facet of your life, just the a general ability to sell Whether it's something, whether it's some service, or even to sell yourself, right?

um, And but I do agree that in any facet of your life, just the a general ability to sell Whether it's something, whether it's some service, or even to sell yourself, right?

If you're looking for a job.

If you're looking for a job.

It it it's an it's a really important skill.

It it it's an it's a really important skill.

Just like financial fluency is an important skill that we should be Putting into this curricula, uh, in the educational system, right?

Just like financial fluency is an important skill that we should be Putting into this curricula, uh, in the educational system, right?

How do we be competent financially and understand finance?

How do we be competent financially and understand finance?

You know, right now, that's something that's not taught at all in the education system.

You know, right now, that's something that's not taught at all in the education system.

And it should be, I feel for, you know, it's it's an important skill of life, and with ski-, with with sales, I think maybe that should be included in there too, something like that. What do you have like main pillars of.

And it should be, I feel for, you know, it's it's an important skill of life, and with ski-, with with sales, I think maybe that should be included in there too, something like that. What do you have like main pillars of.

Of your sales principles, are there like a few main pillars or principles that you have that you can share?

Of your sales principles, are there like a few main pillars or principles that you have that you can share?

Well, before I go into that, uh, since you mentioned about you don't think you're a good salesperson, so.

Well, before I go into that, uh, since you mentioned about you don't think you're a good salesperson, so.

What is, in your own personal opinion, what is a good salesperson?

What is, in your own personal opinion, what is a good salesperson?

I think influence and being convincing. OK, any of you, your thoughts?

I think influence and being convincing. OK, any of you, your thoughts?

What is a good salesperson?

What is a good salesperson?

I think I think that's definitely part of it.

I think I think that's definitely part of it.

You're you're trying to get people to maybe see a certain rationale, uh huh, and see.

You're you're trying to get people to maybe see a certain rationale, uh huh, and see.

um, and be motivated to take action on on something, right?

um, and be motivated to take action on on something, right?

I I think like good sales is is is long term, hopefully, you know you're building a relationship over time.

I I think like good sales is is is long term, hopefully, you know you're building a relationship over time.

um, And you said consultative sales.

um, And you said consultative sales.

Sometimes sales can be creating sense, there's challenger sales, right, which is another methodology, which is like you're you're sort of pushing on people To get them to see the sense of urgency, like, because sometimes we're we're in our comfort zone a little bit.

Sometimes sales can be creating sense, there's challenger sales, right, which is another methodology, which is like you're you're sort of pushing on people To get them to see the sense of urgency, like, because sometimes we're we're in our comfort zone a little bit.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

So you put them in a bit of a a different place psychologically, so they can see different possibilities.

So you put them in a bit of a a different place psychologically, so they can see different possibilities.

But I definitely think there should be a dialogue there.

But I definitely think there should be a dialogue there.

Right, because it's not just you trying to give them something.

Right, because it's not just you trying to give them something.

There should be a solution to a problem that both of you recognize.

There should be a solution to a problem that both of you recognize.

So, the other person is like, oh yeah, I, now I see that problem as well. You both recognize.

So, the other person is like, oh yeah, I, now I see that problem as well. You both recognize.

Then there is some kind of uh solution that you're trying to create, right?

Then there is some kind of uh solution that you're trying to create, right?

Or or outcome, and that of course involves influence and convincing, that's part of the, you know, part of that process.

Or or outcome, and that of course involves influence and convincing, that's part of the, you know, part of that process.

Right?

Right?

How are you?

How are you?

And manipulation.

And manipulation.

Manipulation, whoa.

Manipulation, whoa.

uh, Right, I mean the thing is that um uh what would I I mention about problem solving?

uh, Right, I mean the thing is that um uh what would I I mention about problem solving?

Salespeople in a way are are trying to solve problems.

Salespeople in a way are are trying to solve problems.

So, in in a broader context, it's to help the customer to get where the customer want to be.

So, in in a broader context, it's to help the customer to get where the customer want to be.

Right, and in a way, the difference between a salesperson and a scammer is that a scammer is not helping the customer to get where the customer want to be, it's to get a customer to get where I want them to be. hmm, Right, and usually in, ha ha ha.

Right, and in a way, the difference between a salesperson and a scammer is that a scammer is not helping the customer to get where the customer want to be, it's to get a customer to get where I want them to be. hmm, Right, and usually in, ha ha ha.

Well, ev- even even even as in as in as a what they call tyrannical uh uh leader.

Well, ev- even even even as in as in as a what they call tyrannical uh uh leader.

Yeah, um, people are in there because they want to make movies, they want to make films.

Yeah, um, people are in there because they want to make movies, they want to make films.

They uh that that's what they want to be.

They uh that that's what they want to be.

I mean they may not agree with the the the manager's uh leadership styles.

I mean they may not agree with the the the manager's uh leadership styles.

But they are there because part of what they are doing is where they want to be.

But they are there because part of what they are doing is where they want to be.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

Right.

Right.

Whereas a scam is you lie to people that this is what you want, but you bring them to a totally different place.

Whereas a scam is you lie to people that this is what you want, but you bring them to a totally different place.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, right.

So so, and and usually, uh, detrimental to them.

So so, and and usually, uh, detrimental to them.

So so in in a way, uh, the the whole idea of of of sales is Regardless of it's a one time deal or or a long term thing, is is just a matter of understanding what a customer want.

So so in in a way, uh, the the whole idea of of of sales is Regardless of it's a one time deal or or a long term thing, is is just a matter of understanding what a customer want.

how they get it, is there a better way to do so, and can can I bring them there?

how they get it, is there a better way to do so, and can can I bring them there?

So, for that, in terms of um um, that's that's why I'm saying military in education, it's because uh if you're really good in sales, you Can't to be able to be more balance in thinking about what the other person want.

So, for that, in terms of um um, that's that's why I'm saying military in education, it's because uh if you're really good in sales, you Can't to be able to be more balance in thinking about what the other person want.

As well as what you want.

As well as what you want.

So is there a, there's a level of empathy there?

So is there a, there's a level of empathy there?

There is a lot of empathy, right?

There is a lot of empathy, right?

So that's empathy.

So that's empathy.

Empathy can also be in in a business sense.

Empathy can also be in in a business sense.

Understand the issues, the challenges that you are facing, and um.

Understand the issues, the challenges that you are facing, and um.

Co-create with you, what are some possible solutions to make things a little bit better?

Co-create with you, what are some possible solutions to make things a little bit better?

If you think about like good products or services or solutions, they rely on empathy.

If you think about like good products or services or solutions, they rely on empathy.

Oh, right, because it's like, it's your empathy through like at your, you know, a company.

Oh, right, because it's like, it's your empathy through like at your, you know, a company.

The the empathy of that provider of a group of people.

The the empathy of that provider of a group of people.

Or, you know, if it's B to B, a group of companies that have an issue, and your ability to relate to that, that allows you then to have the inspiration to build a product and services that addresses that particular issue.

Or, you know, if it's B to B, a group of companies that have an issue, and your ability to relate to that, that allows you then to have the inspiration to build a product and services that addresses that particular issue.

And then if everyone is just trying to help other people get to a better place, then the whole world becomes a lot better.

And then if everyone is just trying to help other people get to a better place, then the whole world becomes a lot better.

So, and from that perspective, sales is a good thing.

So, and from that perspective, sales is a good thing.

If you're thinking about, if you define sales in that way, because essentially, it goes much.

If you're thinking about, if you define sales in that way, because essentially, it goes much.

More beyond just an exchange of things of value.

More beyond just an exchange of things of value.

Yeah, in terms of design thinking, if you want design the next breakthrough product, the process of design thinking, the first step.

Yeah, in terms of design thinking, if you want design the next breakthrough product, the process of design thinking, the first step.

Is empathy, hmm hmm, right, it's to it's to understand what your users are going through the the the likes and dislikes, and and the what solution has been overly abused.

Is empathy, hmm hmm, right, it's to it's to understand what your users are going through the the the likes and dislikes, and and the what solution has been overly abused.

uh, Especially with sales people, that I I I always challenge them to to think of what is a solution if it does not have a specific problem to solve.

uh, Especially with sales people, that I I I always challenge them to to think of what is a solution if it does not have a specific problem to solve.

We are we are using solution, the word solution as a bus word for everything.

We are we are using solution, the word solution as a bus word for everything.

For product, it's really just a product, for everything.

For product, it's really just a product, for everything.

But if if if I don't have a problem to solve, then it's not a solution.

But if if if I don't have a problem to solve, then it's not a solution.

It's just a product, right?

It's just a product, right?