亚当·纽曼：这就是打造标志性公司的方法

连一件硬件都没有。

There was no piece of hardware.

没有任何东西是全新的。

There was no nothing that wasn't already done.

这些想法其实早就有人做过了。

Like all these ideas were done.

真正特别、难以复制的，是那个整合在一起的产品体系——有设计感，有易用性的理念，还有技术与人之间的完美配合。

It was the integrated product line that, you know, with a design sensibility, with a usability idea, with the way the technology worked with the person was the thing that made it so special and so hard to replicate.

没人能复制得了这一点。

And, you know, nobody was able to replicate that.

我觉得，当我们谈到Flow的时候，其实是一个关于人们如何生活的整体构想，它靠设计、技术、商业模式、文化，还有这一整套东西来支撑。

And I think that, you know, when we get into Flow, what I see is it's a single idea about how people live that's enabled by design and technology and a business model and a culture and a whole set of things.

只要去掉其中任何一项，那就不是Flow了。

And if you remove any one of them, it's not Flow.

那就像一台Windows电脑，Windows 95，或者别的什么。

You know, it's a Windows PC, Windows 95, whatever it was.

你明白吧？

You know?

就是这种感觉。

It's that kind of thing.

我们接下来会更深入聊聊 Flow。

Well, we'll get deeper into Flow.

不过在那之前，咱们先把这个背景说清楚，Marc，你能不能讲讲你是怎么认识 Adam 的？

But first, wanna make sure we cover the backstory here, which is, Marc, why don't you talk about how how you met Adam?

或者你们当时看中了 Adam 的哪些地方？然后再谈谈你们是怎么建立起这个合作关系的。

Or what what you guys saw in Adam, and then let's talk about how how this partnership was formed.

对。

Yeah.

其实我们并没有，真的没有，我觉得我们之前根本就没怎么接触过，我都不记得了。

So we didn't we didn't actually we didn't we didn't really I don't think we'd ever really I don't

在那之前，那通电话是我们第一次联系。

think prior to- That was the first phone call.

我第一次给你打电话的时候。

When I first called you.

当时有点像哈特菲尔德和麦考伊家族的恩怨，因为他跟哈特菲尔德那边是一伙的，也跟麦考伊那边有关系。

And part of it was a Hatfield McCoy thing, because he was with the Hatfields and with the McCoys.

他是Benchmark的创始人。

Was the Benchmark founder.

那时候啊，

Those were the days when

我们之间确实存在竞争关系。

we actually had a rivalry.

而且我们的办公室就正对着他们那帮人。

And we're and we're we're we're across the street from those guys.

是的。

Yeah.

那可不是我们这边的地盘。

That's not that's not that's not our side of the street.

所以我们从来没真正见过面。

So we never really met.

但我们一直关注着整个过程，从头到尾，起起落落都看在眼里。

But, you we we followed the whole saga, you know, all the way up and all the way up and all the way down.

而且我们注意到了很多细节，真的是一路走过来，全都经历了。

And and, you know, we we noticed a whole whole bunch of things, you know, kind of the the we kinda went through that.

但一开始我们就注意到了本刚才说的那一点——那就是整体的愿景。

But we we we did notice right up front, basically, what what Ben just described, which was which was the integrated vision.

后来我早早地就跟亚当提过这件事。

And then and then I I told Adam this early on.

我跟一位全球顶尖的房地产专家聊过，那时候事情已经开始走下坡路了。

I had a conversation with a guy who's one of the top real estate people in the world who is you know, had and this was actually in the middle of this is when things were starting to go, you know, pear shaped at the time.

我就问他，你觉得这事怎么样？

And I was like, you know, what do you think of this thing?

他回答说：你看。

And he's like, look.

他说，原话是，世界上只有两个人成功地把品牌化和商业地产区分开来。

He said, for his direct quote, he said there's only two people in the world who have ever successfully differentiated branded and differentiated commercial real estate.

他说，其中一个现任美国总统，另一个就是亚当·纽曼。

And he said, one of them is currently president of The United States, the other is Adam Neumann.

是的。

Yeah.

我们当时觉得这真的很了不起。

We thought we actually thought that was pretty cool.

你知道吗，这简直是个了不起的成就。

You know, like that you know, like, what an achievement.

那时候，几乎每家报纸都在抨击他，各种负面新闻满天飞。

And it was right at the time when every, you know, newspaper was shellacking him and all that kind of thing.

但我们一直琢磨的却是：天啊，他竟是那两个人之一。

But, you know, the thing we couldn't stop thinking about was like, wow, he's one of two.

对。

Yeah.

只有两个，就两个。

One exactly two.

我朋友说，你看，这个行业一直以来都是这样，几百年来都没变过。

And what my friend said was like, look, it's just like this business has been the way it's been forever, hundreds, for for hundreds of years.

自从有了商业建筑，就一直有那么一套固定的做法，我们都受过这种训练，整个运营方式都特别刻板。

For as long as there have been commercial buildings, there's been a certain specific way of doing it, and we've all been trained on how to do it, it's all very specific way of operating.

简单来说吧，我们盖个壳子，然后租出去十五年，之后租户自己决定内部怎么装、体验怎么设计，全由他们来搞。

And, you know, at the simplest level, you know, we build a shell and then we lease it for fifteen years, and then the tenant does all the work on on, you know, deciding what the what the interior is like, what the experience is like.

我之前其实还聊过一次类似的事，这算是个题外话。

I had had another actually, it's a digression.

几年前，我跟一位娱乐业大亨也谈过类似的事，那时候电影院行业开始崩盘，票房一路下滑。

I had had another conversation like that on that with a another conversation like that with an entertainment industry mogul some years back when the movie theater business started to cave in, you know, theatrical box office started to collapse.

我当时就问，他们为啥不升级呢？为啥不彻底重新设计电影院呢？

And I was like, well, why don't they upgrade all Why don't they reinvent the movie theater?

比如洛杉矶就有一家特别有名的电影院。

Like, why doesn't it have there was this famous movie theater in LA.

有一家叫Arkalight的影院，体验特别棒，有代客泊车，有预留座位，还能在座位上吃到真正的餐食。

There was one called the Arkalight, and it had this incredible experience of, you know, it had valet parking and it had reserved seating and it had, like, real food, like, real food delivered to you in the seat.

他们还安排特别场次，禁止小孩进入，也有其他场次明确欢迎孩子，甚至鼓励他们大喊大叫。

And it had, like, you know, special screenings where there were no kids allowed, and then they had other screenings where, like, kids were definitely allowed, you know, and fully encouraged to yell and scream.

我当时就想，为什么这样的影院不多见呢？

And, you know, and and and I was like, know, why why aren't there more arc lights?

为什么这种体验一直没有被重新设计呢？

Like, why why hasn't this experience been getting reinvented?

这位先生是家娱乐公司的CEO，他看着我说，因为这些影院全都被房地产商掌控，他们根本不在乎里面发生什么。

And the the this guy was CEO of an entertainment company, he looked at me, and he said, because they're all owned by real estate guys who have absolutely no interest on what happens inside the building.

他们真的完全不关心。

Like, they literally don't care.

Anyway，回到我和房地产朋友的对话，情况也是一样，他就直接说，你看。

Anyway, so so back to my discussion with my real estate friend, it was it was the same thing, which is he he just said, look.

亚当彻底重塑了我们的行业。

Adam has completely reinvented our industry.

以后都会是这样了。

It's it's it's always gonna be like this going forward.

再也不会回去了。

It's never going back.

他会把整个事情彻底翻个底朝天，咱们不管怎么着，总会有办法挺过去，公司最终也会找到自己的出路。

He's he's gonna unearth the entire thing, and, you know, we work you know, in in some way is gonna survive this, and we'll they'll they'll they'll figure out the specific thing with the with with the company.

但他说了，这个行业正在被重新塑造，而在这行里，能干出这种事的人，只有一个。

But he said the industry is getting is getting reimagined, and there's only one guy who's ever been able to do that in this business.

然后你得停一停，想想你之前提到的——这个行业到底有多大。

And then and then you you pause for a moment and you kinda think to to your point about, like, the sheer size of the industry.

就像你一直提醒我们的，这是全球最重要的行业之一，跟每个人都有关系。

And as as, know, as as you always remind us, you know, this is one of the biggest industries on earth, know, that matters matters to everybody.

所以，随着本和我越聊越多，眼看着这一切在眼前发生，你就只能说：好吧。

And so as as Ben and I were talking about it more and more kind of as you're watching the whole thing happen, it's just like, alright.

这里头确实有些特别的东西，跟日常那些琐碎的商业动态完全无关。

Like, there's, you know, there's something very special happening here kind of independent of the of the sort of day to day blow by blow aspects of the business.

然后我们再聊聊，撇开那些财务压力不说。

And then we'll talk more about independent of, you know, the financial stresses.

对。

Yeah.

另外一点是，我们一直密切关注旗下投资公司都在用哪些产品。

The other thing is, know, we keep very good track of what our portfolio companies use.

这些公司其实特别能反映最新的优秀产品，因为他们非常在意工具的质量——几乎全都用过WeWork，这让我们觉得特别有意思。

And they're really a good indicator of like the best new products because they really And, care about you know, almost all of them were WeWork customers and we thought, wow, that's like super interesting.

我们一直觉得他这个人很特别，但因为他当时在Benchmark，我们没法直接联系他。

So we always thought he was a really interesting guy, but because he was with Benchmark, we couldn't call him.

明白了。

Okay.

那你们第一次对话是怎样的？

So what was the first conversation like?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，你可能记得比我还清楚，不过说实话，我想应该是在新冠期间吧？

I mean, you may remember it better than I do, but yeah, I was actually, I think it was, was it during COVID?

就是在新冠期间。

It was COVID.

那会儿正是新冠封锁的时候。

It was during COVID.

我之前为了做这个播客特意查过。

I looked I looked it up before the podcast.

是2020年5月。

May 2020.

所以当时

So when

当疫情封锁真正来临时，我们这儿受影响特别大，我其实根本没有像样的家庭办公室，因为我们以前都是在办公室工作的。

the COVID lock the COVID lockdowns hit hard, you know, out out here, and I I had this didn't have a home office really set up because we always worked out the office.

结果我就只能坐在餐桌旁，一把椅子，连续八个小时开Zoom会议后，从脖子到脚踝，整个身体一侧都僵得动不了，疼得厉害。

And so I had just I was at my dining table with a chair, and I after about eight hours of Zoom calls, the entire side of my body from my neck all the way down to my ankles would be basically seized up and in pain.

我当时就想，这种日子我实在过不下去了。

And I was like, I can't live like this.

我真怕自己会死掉。

I'm gonna die.

我不是会被新冠夺走性命，

I'm not gonna die of COVID.

我是要被这身毛病给折磨死。

I'm gonna die of crippling whatever this is.

于是我每天早上开始散步，每次走三个小时。

And so I started taking three hour walks every morning.

我去了斯坦福校园，那是2020年5月的事。

And I I went over to the Stanford Campus, which was Stanford Campus, May 2020.

整个斯坦福校园空无一人，就我一个人在那儿慢慢走。

Stanford Campus completely completely deserted except for me taking a long walk.

当时有个工作人员守在停车场通往广场的入口，职责就是冲我喊，说我没戴口罩。

And then there was one staff guy who was stationed at the head of the of the of the quad area where I would park, and his job was to yell at me for not wearing a mask.

据我所知，他整天就干这事儿。

As far as I can tell, that was the only thing he did all day.

我每天早上都能见到他，他一见我就冲我喊，说我没戴口罩。

And I would see him every morning, and he would yell at me for not wearing a mask.

我就拿着口罩朝他晃一晃，接着继续走我的路。

I would wave my mask at him and just keep walking.

然后呢，我就开始连续开三个小时的电话会。

Anyway, then I would do three hours of calls.

所以我记得特别清楚，正因如此我才记得那些通话——我记得自己当时站在斯坦福校园的一片草地上，就在那儿接的电话。

And so I actually remember this is why I remember the calls because I remember actually standing in the field at one of the fields at Stanford and actually having the call.

然后对方说，我们一直非常钦佩你所做的事情。

And yeah, and it was basically just like, look, we've always really admired what you've done.

我们明白你最近在媒体上经历的那些压力。

We understand what you're going through from the press.

不过，我记不清有没有跟你说过，但我们的理念一直很明确：评估创始人最关键的一点，就是他们过去经历过哪些艰难挑战，又是怎么挺过来的。

But you know, basically is I can't remember if I told this to you, but, like, our our philosophy always on this is, like, one of the key ways you evaluate founders is, like, what difficult challenges have they been through in their lives that they were able to overcome?

而预测一个人未来能否克服重大挑战的最佳依据，就是他过去是否成功应对过类似的困难。

And the the best forecast of being able to overcome a profound challenge in the future, which every entrepreneur deals with is having overcome profound challenges in the past.

历史上许多杰出的创业者，都曾在某个阶段经历过重大挫折。

And many of the great founders in history have had significant blowups at various points along

比如亨利·福特。

the way.

亨利·福特就是这样。

Including like Henry Ford.

没错。

Yeah.

正是如此。

Exactly.

还有托马斯·沃森，类似的例子多得是。

Well, Thomas oh, there's there's tons of examples.

托马斯·沃森。

Thomas Watson.

托马斯·沃森，IBM的创始人。

Thomas Watson senior who founded founded IBM.

就是那个创办了IBM的人。

The guy who founded IBM.

是的。

Yeah.

他四十多岁的时候创办了IBM。

He founded IBM in his forties.

三十多岁的时候，他被美国联邦政府判犯有反垄断罪。

In his thirties, he was convicted by the federal government of antitrust.

他因为经营之前的公司NCR，被判定违反了反垄断法。

He was, like, convicted of antitrust violations for for running his previous company, NCR.

那时候，他其实已经被政府彻底击垮了，但之后还是创办了IBM。

Like, he was basically already you know, he's already basically been completely taken down by the government at that point and then started IBM.

所以，历史上有很多人都经历过类似的挫折。

And so there there's just this long history of people who have kind of been through these things.

有些人被狠狠打了一拳，就再也站不起来了。

And, you know, some people get punched in the face hard, and they never get up again.

但有些人被揍了，反而说：哇，这倒是个机会。

And other people just get punched in the face, and they're just like, wow.

这正是我重新站起来、证明自己能力的机会。

It's another opportunity for me to stand back up and and show what I'm capable of.

所以我们一直都有这种感觉。

And so we we've we've just always felt like it.

只要一个人经历了巨大困难，还能挺过来，展现出自己的品格，往往就具备巨大的潜力。

Just because somebody goes through something that's very difficult, if they're able to, you navigate know, their way through it and kinda demonstrate their character through it, they they often have great potential.

我不确定我拿自己经历和你小时候患阅读障碍之类的情况做比较是否合适，但经历过根本性的挑战，确实不一样。

And, you know, I don't know I don't know if it is reasonable for me to draw the, you know, kind of comparison to, like, what you were describing for, you know, being dyslexic as a kid or whatever, but, like, being through a fundamental challenge.

不管是童年还是成年，都是如此。

You know, like that, whether it's in childhood or adulthood.

是的。

Yeah.

这件事其实牵涉到好几方面。

It's, know, there's a couple of things that go with that.

任何一个有过巨大成功的人，都知道成功和彻底失败之间只隔着一层薄纸。

One is anybody who's ever had a great success knows that the margin between that and a total failure is very, very thin.

成功越大，这层纸就越薄。

And the bigger the success, the thinner the margin.

所以，像我们这些经历过的人，都会感叹：只要运气差一点，结果可能就完全相反了。

So like, you know, all of us who have been through that go, wow, like, you know, one bad piece of luck and it could have gone completely the other way.

而且，很早以前，我们公司就一直认为，我们真正想找的是强大的人。

And then, you know, we kind of philosophically, very kind of early on in the firm, always felt that what we're looking for is great strength.

每个人都有弱点，有些弱点表现得还特别离谱。

And like every person has a weakness or has weaknesses, and some of them show up in like crazy ways.

但这根本不重要，因为人人都有弱点。

But that doesn't even matter because everybody's got that.

关键在于，你是不是在自己擅长的领域里做到了世界顶尖——而不是你不会什么。就像马克说的，他至少在某一件事上是全球前两名。

What matters is, are you world class or best in world at what you can do, not what And you can't he was clearly, like, clearly, clearly, clearly, like, as Marc said, you know, top two in one thing.

世界上能在任何领域排进前两名的人，简直屈指可数。

There's just very few people on earth that are top two in anything.

所以那时候我们见到他，真的特别兴奋。

So, you know, it was one of those things where like we were excited to meet him.

你知道，当WeWork出事的时候，我早就知道这事儿不对劲。

Know, it wasn't, oh, boy, this is I knew when WeWork got all fucked up, that was never a thing.

还有一件事，算是个老生常谈了——成功的时候人人都来认亲，失败了却没人理睬。

And then maybe one more thing, just a general observation, which is kind of the old adage of was it failure failure is success has a thousand fathers and failure is an orphan is.

是的。

Yeah.

说实话，我也不太确定该怎么说。

There's just I I don't know.

我倒想问问你，很多人经历那种公开的崩盘之后，都会发现，一夜之间，所有熟人都消失了，电话再也没响过。

Actually, I I can't remember if I've ever asked you this, but, like, what a lot of people who go through kind of a big public kind of, you know, take down, tear down of some kind, know, kind of go through is just like all of a sudden, everybody they know, and they're just like, you know, that phone's not ringing.

对吧？

Right?

我听很多人说过这种情况。

I've heard this from lots of people.

我不确定你有没有经历过，但我听说不少人遇到过，突然之间，大家就像躲瘟疫一样避着你，都不愿意跟你说话了。

I don't know if it happened to you, but I've heard it happen to lots of people where all of a sudden, it's just like you you you develop, you know, you develop leprosy or something and people just don't wanna talk to you.

这事儿真有点怪，说真的。

And it's just this, like, completely bizarre thing because it's like, alright.

这个人以前可是备受推崇，人脉也广得很。

This is like a person who people had, you know, a super high opinion of and then, you know, lots of relationships with.

可转眼间，人就突然消失了，好像什么都没发生过一样。

And then just all of a sudden, you know, it's just like poof vanishing.

这到底是为什么呢？

It's like, you know, what is that?

每个这样的人大概都在心里给自己编个理由，觉得远离这个人是明智的选择。

And, you know, every one of those people is probably telling themselves some story about how, you know, they're making the right call by by separating from the person.

但其实真正发生的是，就像那个著名的哲学家泰德·卡辛斯基所经历的，叫作‘过度社会化’。

But what what's of course, what's happening is with Ted Kaczynski, famous philosopher Ted Kaczynski, what's called over socialization.

对吧？

Right?

人们太在意别人怎么想了。

People are too worried about what everybody else thinks.

对吧？

Right?

所以人们容易陷入群体指责的循环，总觉得必须所有人都意见一致才行。

And so people people get too wrapped up in the sort of mob scapegoating cycle of, you know, being able to and and and sort of this this need for this kind of perceived need to kind of everybody to agree on everything all the time.

这导致很多很有潜力的人，在关键时候被抛弃了。

And that just that has this effect of, I think, too many really promising people being abandoned in key moments.

不管怎样，我不确定你有没有经历过，或者这有多贴近你的感受，但我确实接触过很多类似遭遇的人，我知道这种事确实会发生。

Anyway, I don't I don't know if that happened to you or how how much that resonates, but I I have talked to many other people who've been through this kind of thing, and I know that that happens.

所以，在那种时候还能有人愿意跟你聊聊，我觉得这本身就是对从众心理的一种抵抗。

And so, you know, to be able to talk to somebody in the in the to be able to talk to somebody in at that time, I think is it's it's like a it's a blow against conformity.

没错。

Yeah.

我觉得这总是件好事。

Which I think is always a good thing.

这正是人们真正需要一个电话的时候。

And it's, you know, it's a time when people actually could use a call.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我想补充一点，我们之前好像没提到过。

So I think I think the thing I would add to that is so I'm not sure we spoke about it.

你打过去的时候，电话根本没响过。

The phone completely was not ringing when you called.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

有些人天生爱社交。

And some people are social.

我觉得我以前特别爱凑热闹。

I think I'm on the I was extra social.

是的。

Yeah.

那时候我的电话根本没人打，因为我平时话多，现在却完全不说了。

So my phone was x and I like I'm more of a talker than so really stopped.

也不只是这个原因，我有时候会提到这一点。

And it wasn't just that, was I say this sometimes, speak about it.

就在一周前我还有上千个朋友，结果一下子降到十个，其中五个还是家人，我想这也有关系。

I had a thousand friends a week before and I went down to ten and five of them were family members, which I think was part of it.

而且对我而言，我一些最要好的朋友本来就是同事，这本来就是我们生活的一部分。

And for me also, I had some of my closest friends working with me because that's part of our ability.

甚至有一段时间，连那些了解我、一直陪在我身边的人，也渐渐淡出了。

And there was a moment where even people who knew me, who were there for the story Yeah.

他们突然就信了自己看到的内容。

Suddenly believed what they were reading.

真的吗。

Wow.

我相信我们生活在一个完全不同的世界里。

And I do believe we live in a different world.

我们现在聊的是2019年，而现在已经到了2025年。

I I think we're talking now 2019 and we're now 2025.

希望这世界已经变了，人们不会再轻易相信所有看到的信息。

Hopefully, the world has changed enough that people know not to believe everything that they read.

但我觉得那确实是一个时代的终结。

But I think that was still an end of an era.

我们正好赶上了那个时机。

And we were right place, right time for that.

所以电话那头的关心，真的让我很感动，我可能还没跟你说过，但这份心意我记在心里。

So it definitely stopped ringing in and something that I don't know if I've said it to you, but it was greatly appreciated, that phone call.

有趣的是，那次电话里根本没谈任何生意。

And what's interesting about phone call, there was no business transaction in that phone call.

那通电话只是简单问了句：你最近怎么样？

The phone call was just, how are you doing?

你倒是说说，你怎么看？

And tell me what do think?

我以前提过这件事，但我觉得再讲一遍也值得。

And there is something I've shared it before, but it's worth it.

你当时说，亚当，告诉我你最近过得如何。

Where you said, Adam, tell me how you're doing.

我一听就直接开始讲我学到的经验，以为你能给出个答案。

And I jumped straight into my lessons learned and this had an answer.

你却说：哦，你还在那个阶段啊。

And you're like, oh, you're still in that stage.

我当时确实在那个阶段，而且我们并不熟，但我还是忍不住问：马克，你所说的那个阶段到底是指什么？

And I was and we don't know each other, but I was like, Marc, please tell me what that stage is.

他说，就是那种你忘了自己做过什么，却全盘相信别人对你评价的阶段。

He goes, you know, the stage when you forgot everything you did and believe everything that was written about you.

这确实是个阶段。

It's a stage.

总会过去的。

It will pass.

你之前也跟我说过，后来又跟我说了一次，本，你说你想告诉我对你所做事情的看法。

And you also told me and then you told me the same thing, Ben, that you're speaking about about you said, let me tell you what I think about what you did.

这番话真的很暖心。

It was very nice.

但你最后还说，亚当，我只是想让你知道，我相信我们以后还会再聊。

But you also said at the end of it, you said, Adam, just so you know, and I'm sure we'll talk again.

你说，接下来你只需要做一个决定：你还要不要重回擂台？

You said, there's only gonna be one decision that you need to make moving forward, and that's, are you gonna get back in the ring?

你确实会的。

You do do.

还是你不打算？

Or you're not?

对。

Yeah.

没错。

That's right.

他说，我感觉根本不认识你了。

And he goes, I feel I don't know you.

我觉得你就是那个会重新回到擂台上的人。

I feel like you're the guy who's gonna get back in the ring.

是的。

Yep.

事情就停在这里了。

And that's where it's ended.

今天我还在回想这件事。

And I was still thinking back at it today.

如果当时有人指导我，告诉我马克给他们打过电话，我肯定会说，那你回个电话吧。

Or if I had someone who was mentoring and they would tell me that Marc called them, I would say, well, call him back.

看看你们能不能做点什么。

See if there's something you guys could do.

但这些都没发生。

There's none of that.

就只是那样而已。

It was just that.

你们做的另一件特别棒的事，不过马克，还是你。

And the other beautiful thing that you guys did, but Marc, it was again you.

大概六个月后，你又给我打了个电话。

About six months later, you called me again.

是的。

Yep.

说嘿。

Say, hey.

还没联系过。

Haven't spoken.

最近怎么样？

What's up?

你最近在忙什么？

What are you working on?

我当时确实在开始做住宅项目，因为本，你说得对，当时总有一个想法在脑子里。

And and and I was starting to actually work on residential because, Ben, you know, to your point, there was always one idea.

但我以为自己只是把住宅当作投资来做。

But I thought I was working on residential as an investment.

那时候正好是疫情。

It was COVID.

对于还记得的人，当时的利率几乎为零。

Cap rates for those who remember interest rates were literally at zero.

资本化率却很高。

Cap rates were wide.

懂房地产的人都知道，当资本化率收窄时，房产价值就会上涨。

For those who understand real estate, when cap rates compressed, the value of the real estate goes up.

所以当马克打电话来，问我在忙什么的时候？

So when Marc called, what's up now?

我说，我们在做这个，也在做那个，但都没什么特别的。

I said, look, we're doing this, we're doing that, but nothing that special.

马克说，有什么有趣的事记得告诉我们。

Marc's like, okay, let us know if something interesting happens.

从那以后到我们第三次通话之间，我开始实地去看那些楼。

And between that and the third time that we spoke, I started walking the buildings.

虽然疫情带来了很多变化，这一点真的很惊人。

And even though this is something amazing about Corona.

世界发生了太多改变。

So so much change in the world.

我真想听听马克的看法，因为我觉得特别有意思，我们俩在疫情期间做了不少预测。

And I would love to hear Marc because I think it's so interesting because we gave a lot of forecast, you and I, in Corona.

办公室会怎么样？

What's gonna happen to office?

住宅又会怎样？

What's gonna happen to the home?

但疫情中很明显的一点是，人们不会放弃自己的家。

But something that was obvious in Corona is people are not gonna give up their homes.

家在哪里，心就在哪里。

And where your home is, is where your heart is.

回到家，你就需要某种形式的社区。

And to get back home and you need some version of community.

那时候，人们虽然比以往更依赖数字连接，却没人可以聊天。

And people back then were so connected digitally more than ever before and no one to talk to.

尤其是戴了口罩，再加一条：不准人们待在同一个物理空间里，这简直就是反基布兹的完美写照。

And especially with the mask, if you really wanna make it hard, add that barrier, then tell people they're not allowed to be in the same physical space and you got yourself an anti kibbutz moment.

反基布兹的顶峰，大概就在疫情中期。

And peak anti kibbutz moment was somewhere in the middle of Corona.

我和我的团队当时就说：嘿，咱们去买点房产吧。

And me and my team, we were like, hey, let's go buy some real estate.

我负责房产的同事，叫马克。

And my head of real estate, girl's name is Marc.

他跟我说：亚当，我该怎么去买这些房产呢？

He goes, Adam, how am I gonna buy this real estate?

我们只知道直接跟房东谈，从不通过中介。

We only know how to buy by talking to the landlords because we don't use brokers.

我们想要的是真正的交易。

We want the deal.

我们要找那些急着出手的卖家，还得有个合理的购买理由。

So we wanna find the seller that really needs to sell and we need a reason to buy.

我说：那你去见他们吧。

And I said, go meet them.

他们说不愿意见我。

Said they won't meet me.

我说，去外面见他们，坐到桌子对面，各自拿瓶啤酒，好好聊聊。

I said, meet them outside, put them across the table, make sure they have a beer over there, you have a beer over there Yeah.

然后大声争论。

And scream to each other.

他说，没人敢这么做。

And he goes, no one will do it.

我说，人人都敢做。

I said, everyone will do it.

根本没人主动联系他们。

No one's calling them.

结果人人都去做了。

And everyone did it.

我们前五笔收购，后来都成了超棒的项目，待会儿再细说，但它们全都是这么谈下来的。

And our first five acquisitions who turned out to be amazing acquisitions, who we're gonna get to talk about afterwards, but all have amazing basis, were done like that.

有时候，你只需要打个电话，或者直接上门就行。

And sometimes all you need to do is call the guy or show up.

在新冠期间，你其实不用做太多就能显得很不一样。

And in Corona, you didn't have to do that much to be very different.

对。

Yeah.

那你是怎么从做些小投资，转而决定在住宅领域大干一场的？

So how did it change from making some investments to we're gonna take a massive swing on on residential?

有两个原因。

So two ways.

第一，我觉得真正的创业者根本停不下来。

One, I think real entrepreneurs can't help themselves, actually.

你刚才提到，第一，他们经历了什么？

I think another test so you said, one, what did they go through?

我喜欢这个说法。

I love that.

他们又是怎么应对各种挑战的？

And how did they deal with challenges?

而且，他们真的能控制得住自己吗？

And also, can they help themselves?

对。

Mhmm.

这是他们非解决不可的问题，还是你觉得听起来不错就行？

Is this some is this a problem they must solve, or do you think it sounds good?

如果他们觉得这听起来很酷，或者因为看了《社交网络》这部电影想当创始人，那可就不是个好理由。

If they think it sounds good or they wanna be founder because they saw Social Network, the movie, well, that's not gonna be a good reason.

很好。

Great

顺便说一下，那部电影。

movie, by the way.

那可不是个好理由。

That's not gonna be good reason.

但如果内心真的燃烧着这份渴望，不管多少人劝阻，最终我还是开始去走访那些大楼，结果发现那里空荡荡的，毫无生气，特别压抑。

But if it's burning from the inside and no matter how many people say they have to do it, what happened is I started walking the buildings and it was lonely, it was soulless, it was depressing.

我说的这些楼，是我们买下的，每栋有四百到六百个单元。

And we're talking when I say buildings, the buildings we bought, this is 400 to 600 apartments.

这些地方有跟Equinox一样高档的共享健身房、游泳池和厨房。

These are shared gyms that look as nice as Equinox and swimming pools and kitchens.

所有这些房间的设计，都是基于一个假设——人们会聚在一起。

And all of these rooms that were designed by people assuming people are gonna get together.

但不仅没人来，就算有人来了，彼此也不说话。

And not only is no one there, even when people are there, they're not talking to each other.

我就这么看着。

And I just looked at it.

我心里想，我完全可以做得比这好得多。

I was like, I could do so much better than this.

第一步就是，找点小技术。

And step one was just like, let's just find a little bit of technology.

我们找到了一家现成的公司，买下来，说咱们先试着把人们稍微连起来，别抱太大期望。

So we found a company that already existed and we bought it and said, let's just connect them a little bit, not with big intentions.

第二步，我们去找一个出色的物业管理公司。

And step two is let's find a great property manager.

当时我们手上有五个物业项目。

So we had five assets.

于是我们分别聘用了五家不同的物业管理公司。

So we hired five different property managers.

我们指望其中有一家能表现突出，然后我们再以资产经理的身份，指导他们怎么管理这些房产。

Said one of them is gonna be great, and then we'll have a we'll tell them what to do as asset managers on real estate.

物业经理负责日常运营，资产经理则像黑石、黑岩这类机构，负责资金调配。

You have the property manager that runs it, and the asset manager that is the person like the Blackstone's and BlackRock's of the world that that deploy the cash.

这两者之间需要有良好的协作关系。

And they have a relationship between them.

我们试了这几家物业管理公司，结果发现它们都差不多。

And then we use these different property managers and they were all sort of the same.

它们都面临同样的问题。

They all had the same problems.

他们都跟我们讲了同样的故事。

They all told us the same story.

他们的推销话术都一模一样，入住率完全由供需关系决定。

They all had the same pitch, and their occupancy was completely controlled by supply and demand.

于是我们开始动手做，很快就看到了积极的成效。

And so at that point, so we started working and we started doing it and immediately we started seeing positive results.

我们就觉得，嗯，这条路没错，得继续走下去。

So we were like, okay, this is a good direction and we're going to keep doing this.

事情就这样定了。

And that was sort of that.

等到我和马克第三次通话时，他刚读了一篇《华尔街日报》的文章。

And by the third time that Marc and I spoke, Marc read an article in the Wall Street Journal.

现在我们尽量避免任何关于我们的报道，但那一篇没躲过去。

And today we try very hard not to have any articles about us, but that one slipped.

于是马克打来电话说：‘我刚在《华尔街日报》上看到，说有一百万美元。’

So Marc called and said, Hey, I read in the Wall Street Journal about a million dollars.

你这不是在告诉我，你打算创业吗？

You're not telling me, you're starting a business.

我说，不对，其实是咱们俩一起干。

And I said, no, it's actually more us.

我们俩要一起创业。

We are starting a business.

他问，你们有品牌的想法了吗？

And he said, you have an idea for a brand?

我说，有，但我们俩慢慢来，不着急。

I said, I do, but we're doing it just us and we're taking our time.

马克说，这听起来太棒了。

Marc says, sounds awesome.

你们要不要过来跟我们分享一下？

Maybe you guys can come and share it with us.

我说，我非常愿意。

And I said, I would love to.

根本没抱什么期待，真的，一点期待都没有。

Without really expect again, no expectation.

我觉得我们这段关系是自然而然形成的。

I think the thing about this relationship is it formed organically.

这事儿急不得，花了挺长时间。

It took time.

谁都没催着要赶紧做点什么。

There was no rush to do anything.

正因如此，才显得特别真实。

And that's what made it so real.

后来我们一起去Nobu吃晚饭。

And then we went to dinner at Nobu.

是Marc请的客。

Marc hosted us.

Ben其实没参加第一次见面。

Ben was actually not in the first lands.

DG 也在场。

DG was there.

他负责增长业务。

He runs growth.

克里斯·迪克森也在，他负责加密货币领域。

And Chris Dixon was there who runs crypto.

那顿饭特别温馨。

This very nice dinner.

我记得那天去吃饭，大家坐下后，马克就说：来，跟我们说说你的新点子。

And I remember coming to the dinner and we sit down and Marc goes, so tell us about this new idea.

我说：其实我想先聊聊WeWork的教训。

And I said, well, I actually wanna start by talking about lessons learned from WeWork.

马克说：亚当，如果我们只想听这个，根本不会请你来。

And Marc said, Adam, we we wouldn't have invited you here if that's what we need to talk about.

我们对你已经很了解了。

We have done we know a lot about you.

别担心。

Don't worry.

我们可能更清楚你的一些错误。

We might know more about some of your mistakes.

关于WeWork，好消息是相关资料非常完整。

The good news with WeWork is it was very well documented.

是的。

Yeah.

他把那本书读了。

He read the book.

我们还看了那部迷你剧。

We watched the mini series.

他说：‘不用了。’

He said, no.

我们聊了

We talked to

他和他们公司有很多员工。

him and they had a lot of employees.

他说的不只是我们读了这本书，你还说我们把所有东西都读了。

He said, not only have we read the book, you said, not only have we read everything.

我认识你们的董事会成员。

I know your board members.

我其实认识他们所有人。

I actually know I know all of them.

没错。

That's true.

我认识他们。

I know them.

我和他们谈过。

I spoke to them.

而你现在在这里，是因为我们希望你来。

And and you're here because we want you to come.

咱们来聊聊这个想法吧。

Let's talk about the idea.

我说过，我很感谢，但我更想多学点。

And I said, I really appreciate that, but I actually wanna learn.

我相信你的看法跟我肯定不一样。

I'm sure you have a different take than me.

让我来说说看。

Let me share.

对那些还不了解马克的人说一下，一旦让他开口，他就有说不完的话。

And then and this is for those of you who don't know Marc, once you get you let Marc go, he has a lot to say.

我一开始讲，没几分钟你就给了我反馈，直到今天，我还记得你当时说了几句话，我简直不敢相信我以前居然没注意到。

So I started and within minutes you gave me until today, I remember you said a few things there that I couldn't believe I never noticed.

马克提到的一点特别明显，就是：你对那些投资人做过多少调研？

And one of the things Marc said that was so obvious was what research did you do about what investors you took?

你对他们过去的背景了解多少？

What did you know about their history?

你招员工的时候，做过哪些调查？

What research did you do about what employees you took?

你对你的技术负责人了解多少？

What did you know about your tech leaders?

他说，我明白，亚当，你做事很快，很有激情，也能把事情推动起来，但你到底做了多少尽职调查？

Well, he said, I get it, Adam, you move really fast and you're passionate and you make things happen, but how much diligence did you actually do?

其实，对我第一批投资人，我什么都没做。

And the answer was actually none for my first investors.

是他们主动找上门的。

They came to me.

我什么都不知道。

I didn't know anything.

我当时根本不懂这些。

I didn't know any better.

也不知道还有别的选择。

Didn't know what else existed.

但如果我当时做了，也许我就来了。

But if I did, maybe I would have come.

也许我就会来这里，我们现在就会是不一样的处境。

Maybe I would have come here and we would have been in a different place.

你知道的，本，你跟我提过，我们聊过这事。

Know, Ben, you've said it to me, we talked about it.

我们偶尔也会聊到这个。

We talk about it sometimes.

不。

No.

不。

No.

我相信更大的图景，但和我坚信有比我自己更好的东西不同，我真心觉得，我们会到达该去的地方。

I believe in a bigger picture, but separate than the fact that I believe in something better than myself, I genuinely believe that we go to the place that we need to be.

只要我们愿意学习、愿意改变，我就知道，今天的我，正处在该在的位置。

As long as we're willing to learn lessons and change, I know that today I'm exactly where I need to be.

而我们现在的这种合作、这场对话，也就不会发生了。

And this partnership, this discussion we're having now wouldn't have happened.

所以我们那晚一起吃了饭，味道非常好。

So we had that dinner and it was excellent.

接着我们就聊起了未来的生活方式。

And then we started talking about the future of living.

我们谈的完全是愿景，真正看到的未来。

And we talked about it pure vision and really what we see.

我说，其实我们已经拥有这些了，我也解释了为什么现在就可以利用现有的基础，推向下一个阶段。

I said, well, were And I explained what we already have and explained why we could already start leveraging what we have to then take it to the next level.

后来我们真的开始讨论了，但马尔克接着问：你觉得呢？

And then we actually went But then Marc then said, so what do you think?

你觉得我们是不是该去探索一下什么？

You think maybe we should explore something?

我说：实话讲，我根本不了解你。

I said, look, I don't know you.

你根本不了解我。

You don't know me.

我以前受过伤，有点心灰意冷。

I was a little burned in the past.

这件事我们全都是自掏腰包在做。

We're using all of our own money for this.

后来你，马克，跟我说：不如你花点时间，先好好了解我们？

And then Marc, you said to me, how about you take time and get to know us?

我们也一样，会慢慢了解你。

We'll get to know you.

看看接下来会发生什么。

And let's see what happens.

从那以后，整整过了六个月。

And it took six months from that point.

很多人以为这事发生得很快。

A lot of people think that this happened fast.

其实并没有。

It didn't.

从那时起到实际投资，整整花了六个月，到今年八月就满三年了。

It took six months from that point to the actual investment, which in this August will be three years.

真厉害。

Wow.

我想说的是，你不仅在已经打造了一家传奇公司、赚得盆满钵满之后重新回到了赛场，还把大笔套现资金重新投入公司，这种三倍押注的做法，几乎只有埃隆一直在这么做。

Well, one thing I just wanna say that's so remarkable is you not only got back in the ring again after you already built an iconic company, you already made more money than than you know what to do with, but you also put a large chunk of that liquidity back into the company, sort of a triple down in a way that seems like Elon is the only person who continuously does that.

我觉得，我得把很大一部分功劳归于马克和本。

So I think that one, I I give a lot of credit to Marc and Ben.

所以当他们加入、我们刚开始的时候，马克，你还记得那次谈话吗？

And so when they came, when we started, Marc, I wonder if you remember this discussion.

我们一开始聊业务，我就立刻主张轻资产运营，因为咱们确实该走轻资产路线。

So we're starting to talk about the business and I immediately was leaning into asset light because we should be asset light.

为什么呢？

Why?

因为WeWork虽然也是轻资产模式，但完全是出于错误的原因。

Because I heard so many times, because WeWork was an asset light for all the wrong reasons.

我就说，我们得走轻资产的路。

I said, we need to be asset light.

Marc，你当时飞过来，我现在才明白，你后来还多次跑去迈阿密。

And Marc, flew and now I know, but you traveled down to Miami multiple times.

而且，这都是在那场著名的晚餐之前的事了。

And again, this was before the famous dinner.

我们坐在车里聊房地产，你当时还提到了你的岳父。

And we were sitting in the car and we were talking about real estate and you actually talked about your father-in-law.

你跟我分享了从他那里学到的很多东西。

You shared with me a lot of things that you learned from him over time.

是的。

Yep.

我也没见过他，但他听起来真是个了不起的人。

And and I didn't meet him either, but he sounds like an amazing person.

他为硅谷和加利福尼亚做了很多事。

He's done a lot for the valley and for California.

你跟我说过，亚当，先别管你团队和我团队在讨论什么，不是因为我们不尊重他们。

And you said to me, Adam, forget what your team and my team is talking about for a second, not because we don't respect them.

我们尊重每个人，也会听每个人的建议。

We respect everybody and we're gonna hear everybody's opinions.

我只是想听听你自己的想法。

But I just wanna know what you think.

是的。

Yep.

如果我要你打造一个规模最大的、彻底颠覆这个行业的公司，就按你想象的方式去做，

If I wanted you to build the largest, really disrupt this industry, imagine it the way you imagine it.

你还需要拥有房地产吗？

Would you need to own real estate?

我一开始就说，需要。

And I said at the beginning, I would.

你问我为什么。

And you asked me why.

我说，因为我希望有自由去做我想做的任何事。

And I said, because I wanna be allowed to do whatever I want.

我想尝试一切。

I wanna try everything.

我想快速失败。

I wanna fail fast.

我想快速修正，快速上线。

I wanna fix fast, and I wanna deploy fast.

我说，我想改变一切。

And I said, I wanna change everything.

我想改变它的运行方式和技术。

I wanna change the technology of how it's run.

是的。

Yep.

我想改变那些做事的人的方式。

I wanna change the operating people of what they do.

我想改变设计。

I wanna change the design.

我想改变气味。

I wanna change the smell.

我想改变制服。

I wanna change the uniforms.

我想把所有方面都改到我觉得对为止。

I wanna change everything about it until it gets to something that I know is right.

你问我，你怎么知道什么时候才算对了？

And you asked me, how would you know when it's right?

我跟你说，是一种感觉。

And I tell you it's a feeling.

是的。

Yeah.

你说，太好了。

And you said, great.

对。

Yeah.

然后你说，我有个建议给你。

And then you said, I have a suggestion for you.

这不按常规来。

It's not traditional.

你有一大堆作品。

You have this large portfolio.

从你这些作品里，把那些觉得不适合‘流’的都挑出来。

Take out of this portfolio whatever you don't think is a fit for flow.

把它们卖了。

Sell it.

剩下的，你觉得最棒的那些，就和我们放在一起，整齐地摆在最前面，我们跟你一起干。

But the rest, what you think is your best stuff, put it with us, aligned on the top together, and we're with you.

我们一起往上走。

We go up.

我们一块儿往下走。

We go down.

你怎么做，我们就怎么做。

Whatever you do, we do.

我当时愣了一下。

And it took me a second.

一开始我还以为这是什么谈判技巧，结果后来发现，这竟是我们做过最明智的决定之一。

And and then in the beginning, I thought this was some negotiation, some fancy negotiation tactic, because it ended up being one of the smartest things we've done.

我真心觉得，Flow 今天能有这个局面——我们待会儿还会细说——就是因为当时做了这个决定。

It's I genuinely believe that the reason Flow today, and we're gonna talk about it more, is where it is, was because of that decision.

不过，马克，我以前也问过你这个问题。

But I think, Marc, I've asked you this before.

我觉得你当时做这个决定，其实理由很简单。

I think the reason you you had a very you actually had a simple reason for that decision.

那就是目标一致。

That was alignment.

我觉得a16z在这方面特别擅长。

Something that I think a16z is really good at.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这部分也是因为我们观察了WeWork的案例，等你跟投资人闹到对立的地步，事情基本就很难收场了。

And in part that was based on actually watching WeWork, which is by by the time you get into a situation where you're fighting with your investors, like, things things just do not end well.

我们见过太多公司都经历过类似的情况。

And we've just we've seen that across many companies.

所以，做企业本来就已经够难了，如果大家目标一致，至少还能往前走。

And so, yeah, if we just building a business is so hard if everybody's aligned.

要是大家意见不一，那简直是要命的难。

If everybody's not aligned, like, it becomes punishingly difficult.

不过我还是想再深入问问，没错，对于风险投资来说确实如此。

Well, I'll push you though on it a little bit because, yes, but for venture capital Yep.

说我们要去投资房地产，这可不明显。

Saying let's go own real estate, Not obvious.

咱们不妨聊聊这个，因为这也关系到 Flow 公司正在做的事。

So let's talk about that for a moment because this this also goes into what what Flow is doing.

在我看来，硅谷通常推崇两种堪称典范的商业模式，可以说是历史上最成功的模式。

So so, basically, the way I think about this is there's sort of two iconic business models that are kinda held out in Silicon Valley as kind of the best in class, like, best business models ever ever made.

其中之一就是微软。

And one of them is Microsoft.

微软给我们的关键启示是：打造一个横向的技术层，比如操作系统和软件应用，然后让它们兼容成千上万种不同的硬件设备、电脑厂商和芯片等等。

And the the great lesson of Microsoft was you build a horizontal layer of technology, you know, software operating systems and applications, and then you basically run across, you know, thousands of of of of different hardware implementations, thousands of different, you know, computer computer makers and and chips and so forth.

所以你要构建的是横向层，永远不要做垂直整合，因为你希望自己的产品能在所有平台上运行。

So you you build a horizontal layer, and you never ever vertically integrate because you wanna basically run on everything.

这就是第一点教训。

So that's so that that's lesson number one.

第二个教训是苹果，它的核心理念是必须100%垂直整合。

And lesson number two is Apple, where you the where the lesson is you 100% always wanna vertically integrate.

绝不能做横向层，因为你根本无法充分掌控用户体验。

You never wanna be a horizontal layer because you don't have nearly enough control over the user experience.

就像乔布斯常说的，真正热爱软件的人，就得自己造硬件。

You have to you know, the old Steve Jobs line is that people who, know, love software need to build their own hardware.

你必须亲自掌控整个产品体系。

You you need to actually control the entire thing.

你得完全垂直整合，否则就无法掌控用户体验。

You need to be completely vertically integrated because if you're not vertically integrated, you can't control the user experience.

如果无法掌控用户体验，你就没法实现当初的愿景。

And if you can't control the user experience, you can't deliver the thing you you can't deliver against the vision.

当然，就像商业和生活中很多事一样，这两个教训是完全对立的。

And, of course, as is true in so much in business and life, those lessons are diametrically opposed.

对吧？

Right?

它们根本没法调和。

Like, they're they're they're they're irreconcilable.

它们完全是相反的。

Like, they're they're directly opposed.

确实，有些成功的科技公司是按微软的模式建立的，也有些是按苹果的模式建立的。

And and and there have been great tech companies built with the Microsoft model, and there have been great tech companies built with the Apple model.

对吧？

Right?

所以，说到底，关键在于具体情况具体分析。

So so, you know, the the moral of the story is, like, it it it really depends.

但如果你真的想从头到尾掌控用户的体验，就必须做到垂直整合。

Specifically, though, if you want to control the actual customer experience end to end, you have to you have to vertically integrate.

这是唯一真正能做到的方法，否则，你一开始就得去说服别人。

It's it's it's the only way to actually do it because otherwise, you're you're in you're you're in in the role of having to kinda cajole, especially early on.

你得去说服那些并不认同你愿景的人，让他们去做你认为必要的事。

You're in the realm of having to cajole people who don't share your vision into doing the things that are required.

不过话说回来，就像我们经常提到的，市面上有大量物业完全可以通过品牌、愿景、技术和平台获得巨大收益。

Now having said that, as as as as as we talk about all the time, there is an extraordinarily large amount, number of properties out there that could benefit from the brand, the vision, the technology, the platform.

所以，Flow商业模式的核心问题之一就是：长远来看，到底该在多大程度上实现垂直整合？我们该自己拥有多少房地产，又该让多少房地产接入我们的系统？

And so one of the very interesting kind of things at the heart of the business model for Flow is to what extent, like in the long run, should it be vertically integrated and to what extent should be you know, where we own our own real estate and to what extent should that actually run on across all real estate.

关于这一点，我觉得我们可以从酒店行业学到很多，因为酒店业已经走过这条路了。

And then I think for that, we've we can learn a lot from hotels because hotels have gone through their process.

比如希尔顿和万豪，它们最初是自己拥有大量物业的。

If you take Hilton and Marriott where they started by owning a lot of it.

但今天，如果我没记错的话——我们谈的是成千上万的物业，自己拥有的不到百分之一。

And today, if I'm not mistaken, listen, we're talking about thousands of properties, less than 1% owned.

所以，不管你融到多少钱，哪怕我们说的融资是针对房地产基金的——

So no matter how much money you could raise and how big And when we talk about raising money, by the way, we talk about raising money for real estate funds.

我们不是在为Flow母公司融资，那条路已经关上了。

We're not talking about raising money for Flow parent company, that that door is closed.

但无论融多少，跟整个资产类别的规模比起来，都只是九牛一毛。

But no matter how much you would raise, it will always be tiny compared to how big the asset class.

你刚才提到了其中最大的一个。

And you talked about one of the largest.

房地产规模大到很多人可能难以想象，这是一个价值25万亿美元的资产类别。

Real estate is so large just for people to understand that we're talking about a $250,000,000,000,000 asset class.

拿普通建筑来说，这些多户住宅每栋大约值两亿美元。

But to try to put it in numbers, a normal building, these multifamily buildings is $200,000,000 a building.

买十栋就是二十亿美元。

You buy 10, you're at 2,000,000,000.

买一百栋就是两千亿。

In a 100, you're 20,000,000,000.

一百栋根本不算多。

And a 100 is not a big number.

你就坐在那儿，我们在迈阿密市中心，从我们楼顶望出去，随便一指就能看到一百栋适合做Flow项目的建筑。

It's just you could sit, you can we're in Downtown Miami, you could stand on our roof and point to a 100 buildings that could be flow buildings.

南佛罗里达有五个这样的区域，每个都像这样，而这还只是其中一个地区。

And there's five different neighborhoods like that in South Florida, and that's just one area.

然后你还可以去纽约，甚至把业务扩展到全球各地。

Then you could go to New York and you could start going all over the planet.

但我认为，正是当年的那个决定，让我们成了今天的我们。

But I do think that that decision allowed us to be who we are.

等到时机成熟时，我们其实有两个选择，但也可以做品牌授权业务。

And also when the time does come in out, so we have two choices, but we also can do the flag business.

或者，我们可以和那些拥有公寓或其他服务资产的人合作，像四季酒店那样挂上我们的品牌，提供我们的技术和运营经验，但所有开支仍由房东承担。

Or we come to a person who owns this multifamily or the other things, other services that we deliver and put our flag just like the Four Seasons puts our flag and actually do a management deal, where it's our brand, our technology, our experience, but the expenses are on the landlord.

而且我们优势之一是，现在还不用急着做这个决定。

And some of what's nice also about our alignment is we don't have to make that decision yet today.

眼下，我们最要紧的是把产品做到最好。

Right now we have to build the best product.

对。

Right.

我们能不能再多讲讲，当初投资 Flow 的核心逻辑是什么？你们当时为什么觉得它会成为全球最大的公司之一？

Can we share more about the thesis underlying our bet into Flow in terms of how we saw the, you know, why was this gonna be one of the biggest companies in the world?