本·霍罗威茨与特拉维斯·卡兰尼克谈重新出发

嘿，特拉维斯回来了。

Hey, Travis is back.

但其实我已经干了八年了。

But, I've actually been working for eight years.

只是一直没怎么对外说。

I just haven't been talking about it.

我们正在为下一场工业革命而竞争。

We're competing for the next industrial revolution.

有人问我，你对优步生气吗？

People said, are you pissed off about Uber?

这事儿让你不爽吗？

Does that grind you?

当你再次坠入爱河时，你就不会太想前任了。

When you fall in love again, you don't think about the X very much.

我们有一套非常详尽、高保真的行动指南，专门教我们怎么不引起外界注意。

We had a massive, high fidelity playbook on how to not get attention for anything we did.

很多优步迟早会做的事情，我们现在已经在做了。

A lot of the things that would have happened with Uber over time are things we're doing now.

基本上有几万亿美元规模的行业会被自动化。

It's basically multiple trillion dollar industries that are gonna get automated.

我们谈论数字人工智能对企业的改变，但这些行业本身就已经很庞大了。

We talk about digital AI and what it does to the enterprise, but these industries on their own are big.

你觉得你的成功是因为你做对的事，还是尽管你做错了事还是成功了？

You think you were successful because of what you did versus in spite of what you did?

如果你不为了最好的想法去争取，那你到底在为什么想法争取？

If you don't fight for the best idea, then what idea are you fighting for?

你就是在为一个平庸的想法而战，这个想法会让你不如选择最好想法时那么出色。

You're fighting for the mediocre idea, an idea that's gonna make you less good than if you went for the best idea.

真正的问题是你什么时候收购优步？

The real question is when are you guys gonna buy Uber?

在隐形发展了将近八年之后，特拉维斯·卡兰尼克终于准备好谈论接下来的计划了。

After nearly eight years building largely out of public view, Travis Kalanick is finally ready to talk about what comes next.

在这场Atoms Launch活动的炉边对话中，我和Ben Horowitz一起跟Travis坐下来聊了聊，为什么他这么久都不发声，从Uber之后他的想法有了哪些变化，以及为什么他相信工业AI会引领下一个科技时代。

In this fireside conversation from Atoms Launch event, Ben Horowitz and I sit down with Travis to discuss why he stayed quiet for so long, how his thinking has evolved since Uber, and why he believes industrial AI will defy the next era of technology.

聊的过程中，我们还回顾了Uber最重大的那些决策、创始人的文化，以及要怎样才能两次打造出颠覆性的公司。

Along the way, we revisit the biggest decisions of Uber, founder culture, and what it takes to build transformational companies twice.

我们之前那期一起做的播客之所以那么受欢迎，就是因为我们直接就切入了正题，聊的都是干货。

So the reason why people loved our podcast that we did the first one that we did together is because we just got right into it, right into the good stuff.

所以今天我们也要这样，然后

So we're gonna do that here, and

接下来我们会开放提问环节，我很紧张。

then we're gonna open it up for I'm scared.

关于问答环节。

For q and a.

Eric很擅长这个，但让我压力很大。

Eric's good at this and it stresses me out.

好了，你准备好了吗，Eric？

All right, what do got, Erik?

所以，特拉维斯，

So Travis,

你当初为什么没买下Lyft？

why didn't you buy Lyft?

你会后悔吗？

And do you regret it?

如果时光倒流，你会怎么做？

What would you do if you can

回到过去？

go back in time?

我觉得这会让很多人感到意外，但Lyft的企业文化跟我们的很不一样。

I think this will surprise a lot of people, but Lyft's culture was very different than ours.

也许是从那个粉色胡子开始的。

Maybe it started with the pink mustache.

不过我觉得挺有意思的，尤其是对于那些正处于可以收购其他公司的创业者来说。

But I think it's interesting, right, when it comes to entrepreneurs that are in that moment where you could acquire something.

顺便说一句，这件事我被人骂了好久。

By the way, I got a lot of shit for this for a long time.

所以是的，两家公司的文化确实不合。

So yeah, the The culture didn't.

对，对，文化确实合不来。

Yeah, yeah, the culture didn't mix.

当你去谈收购的时候，明明双方结合能产生那么多好处，而且说实话，我们现在可能正陷在一场疯狂的战争里，每年花上十亿美元或者更多这种天文数字的钱，你肯定希望这事儿能成。

And when you meet with somebody and you're gonna acquire them and there's so much goodness that could come from it, by the way, we're in some crazy war probably spending a billion dollars a year on it or some insane amount of money, you want it to work.

那你觉得有什么地方可以做得不一样吗？

So you wouldn't do anything different?

我觉得没什么需要改的。

I wouldn't do anything different.

现在说起来轻松，但当时我因为这件事被骂了好久。

And it's easy to say now, but I got a lot of shit for that for a long time.

其实就是我和他们坐在桌子对面聊的时候，很明显感觉到我们文化差异很大，根本合不来。

But it was basically I would sit across the table from the guys and I just didn't it was just clear that we were very culturally different and you couldn't.

要把这件事做成，难度是越来越大。

It get harder and harder to make that happen.

总之吧。

Anyways.

顺便

By

说一句，我同意这个观点。

the way, I agree with that.

我觉得吧，我是说，如果特拉维斯还在掌管优步的话，那得做个假设性分析。因为……

I think it, I mean, you'd have to do the counterfactual if Travis was still running Uber, because.

那会是什么样子？

What would that look like?

假设特拉维斯今天还在管优步。

Travis is still running Uber today.

嗯，我觉得那会儿还是原来的那种企业文化。

Well, I think it would have been the original culture.

他们后来形成的文化，是对抵制的回应，结果却变得相当温吞，不像原来优步那种独特鲜明的文化。

And the culture they went to, which was a reaction to the resistance, just ended up being a much more milquetoast culture than the original Uber culture was a special, very pronounced culture.

那份文化文档里，我最喜欢的是“精英主义和踩脚趾”——还是“跺脚趾”来着。

My favorite thing in that culture doc was meritocracytoastepping or toe stomping.

我记不清了。

I can't remember.

我一直以为

I always thought

是跺脚。

of it as stomping.

精英主义和踩脚趾。

Meritocracy and toe stepping.

踩脚趾。

Toe stepping.

对。

Yeah.

这就有点像‘别管你的感受’。

Which is kind of like fuck your feelings.

我们是为了建设而来。

We're here to build.

我们要把它做成。

We're gonna do it.

我们会尽最大努力推进。

We're gonna push as hard as we can.

对，你可能会被人踩到脚趾，但你得继续往前走。

And yeah, you may get your toe stepped on, but you gotta keep going.

你得保持那股冲劲。

You gotta keep bringing it.

对我来说，特拉维斯离开后，这部分就被稀释了。

And to me, that was the part got diluted when Travis went out.

而且在某种程度上，它恰恰是核心所在。

And it was, in some ways it was the core part.

至少从我旁观的角度来看，这是非常关键的一个元素。

It was a very essential element to at least what I saw kind of from the side in it.

对，我们已经重新品牌了，现在的公司叫Atoms。

Yeah, we've rebranded it, the current company, Atoms.

我们称之为“最佳想法胜出”。

We call it the best idea wins.

但踩到别人脚趾这件事很重要，因为有很多人不愿意为最好的想法去争，因为他们怕得罪别人。

But the toe stepping is important because there's so many people that are not willing to fight for the best idea because they're gonna upset somebody else.

如果你不为最好的想法去争，那你到底在为什么想法去争？

And if you don't fight for the best idea, then what idea are you fighting for?

你争的是平庸的想法，是政治上稳妥的想法。

You're fighting for the mediocre idea, the politically expedient idea.

这种想法会让你不如去争取最佳想法那么好。

An idea that's gonna make you less good than if you went for the best idea.

所以让每个人都朝着这个方向努力，是一种能帮你赢的文化氛围。

And so having everybody oriented towards that is a cultural vibe that helps you win.

是的，安迪·格鲁夫在英特尔的时候，他管这叫建设性对抗。

Yeah, when Andy Grove was at Intel, he used to call that constructive confrontation.

对。

Yeah.

这是唯一能进步的方式。

Which is the only way to get better.

你得接受考验。

You have to get tested.

有个预测市场在赌特拉维斯什么时候回优步，

There's a polymarket on when Travis is gonna come back at Uber,

或者他们什么时候会

or when they were gonna

让特拉维斯回优步。

ask Travis to come back at Uber.

但真正的问题是，你们什么时候会收购优步？

But the real question is when are you guys gonna buy Uber?

我觉得我们还能赚很多。

I think we still have a lot to earn.

很有意思。

It's fun.

我现在做的事情太多了，别人会问，如果是那样，你会做什么？

So much of what I'm doing, and people go, what would you be doing if?

我不能说我在Uber会做的所有事情现在都在做。

And I can't say all the things that I would be doing at Uber I'm doing now.

有很多事情我没有做，但那些事情是延续下来的。

There's a lot of things I'm not, but it is a continuation of the things.

而且很多原本会在Uber慢慢实现的事情，我们现在就在做。

And a lot of the things that would have happened with Uber over time are things we're doing now.

如果这些事情都能实现，你看，我已经说清楚了工业AI是什么以及它未来的发展方向。

And if those things play out and you take over look, I outlined what industrial AI is and where it's going over time.

基本上就是好几个千亿甚至万亿美元规模的行业会被自动化。

It's basically multiple like 100,000,000,000 or trillion dollar industries that are gonna get automated.

我们谈到了数字AI及其对企业的影响。

We talk about digital AI and what it does to the enterprise.

但这些行业本身规模就很大。

But these industries on their own are big.

所以这基本上是一个新工业时代的到来，我把它比作第二次工业革命。

And so this is a new industrial age that basically is sort of coming I compare it to the second industrial revolution.

所以如果我们判断正确并且执行得好，那就真的会成真，因为你会想：食物会实现自动化吗？

So if we're correct and we execute well, then it's a thing because you're like, is food gonna be automated?

食物的生产过程会被自动化吗？

Is production of food gonna get automated?

食物的配送会被自动化吗？

Is the delivery of food going to get automated?

我想我们都会说是的。

I think we'd all say yes.

如果真是这样，那么将会有一项服务，它准备和配送食物的成本比去杂货店还要便宜。

And if that's the case, then there will be a service that prepares and delivers that food at cheaper than going to the grocery store.

如果真是这样，那食品行业会被彻底改变。

And if that happens, this occurs and food will be completely revolutionized.

采矿也会自动化吗？

Will mining get automated?

如果真的自动化了，不只是物料运输，而是采矿的每个环节，那采矿公司还算什么呢？

And if it does, not just the movement of the materials, but every part of mining, then what is a mining company?

它就只拥有地皮了。

It just owns real estate.

这会是彻底的变革，一个数万亿美元的市场，而且这样的行业还很多。

It will be completely revolutionized, multi trillion dollar market, and there's many of these.

现在我们得有所作为了。

And now we gotta deliver.

说说看，作为创始人在建设Atoms时，和你在建Uber的时候有什么不同？你改变了哪些做法？

Talk about how you're different as a founder building Atoms than you were building Uber in terms of what have you changed?

哪些又是你坚持保留的？

What have you kept the same?

回过头来看，你觉得

When you reflect back, what do

你的成功是因为你做对了什么，还是尽管你做错了什么却依然成功了？

you think you were successful because of what you did versus in spite of what you did?

你看，我做优步的很多方式和我在优步之前的经历密切相关。

Look, some of how I did Uber is very related to what I did before Uber.

而在优步之前，我经历过失败。

And what I did before Uber was I failed.

说实话，我的公司差点就被收购了。

Mean, my company barely got acquired.

前四年我都没拿工资。

I did the first four years without a salary.

我还穿过印着‘流血、流汗、吃拉面’的袜子。

I had socks that said blood, sweat, and ramen.

就是这些经历吧。

It was stuff like that.

当你处在那种悬崖边上，靠救济金过日子，还得勉强维持生计，然后再去做优步这样的事，简直是超强的产品市场契合度再上千倍，但你心里还是觉得自己很穷，下周连超市都去不起，你就会离那条线太近了。

And when you're that on the line and you're on welfare and you've got to make ends meet, and then you go into something like Uber, which is like ultra product market fit times a thousand, but you still think you're poor and you can't go to the grocery store next week, you get too close to the line.

比如我就会一直贴着那条线走。

Like I would go right up against the line.

可能有些人猜到了，但我真的就是紧贴那条线，你要想知道我鞋上有没有沾到粉笔灰，就得用电磁扫描显微镜，还得从反方向放大来看。

Some people might have guessed that, But I'd go right up against the line, and the only way you knew that I didn't get chalk on my shoe was you'd get an electromagnetic scanning microscope and you would zoom in reverse angle.

然后你才发现，哦，他没事。

And you'd like, okay, he's fine.

但如果你做大了，还是那种做法，你可能会发展到一定程度，带来大量快速的变革，却没有一起带来信任。

But if you get big and you roll that way, you get to a place where people, you're bringing a lot of change really fast and you haven't brought trust along for the ride.

所以我要说，现在我离那条线还有几英寸远。

So I would say today I'm a few inches off that line.

不用慢动作回放也知道我做的是对的。

You don't need to do the slow motion replay to know that I did the right thing.

我在优步做的每一个决定，我都会坚持。

I'd stand by every decision I made at Uber.

但现在你不用再猜了。

But you don't need to guess anymore.

现在非常干净利落。

It's like super clean.

你不需要靠得那么近。

You don't have to be that close.

还有一件有趣的事，我觉得现在刚起步的年轻创业者们可能还没完全明白，就是当你做到第三、第四家公司的时候——我可能现在都做到第五家了——你会变得非常擅长做事。

The other thing that's interesting, and I think sometimes the young entrepreneurs that are just coming up right now, they don't totally get it, is that when you get into your third and fourth, I don't know, this may be even my fifth at this point, company, you get fricking really good at doing stuff.

以前需要花一天或三天、压力很大、焦虑不安、不知道怎么做的事情，现在四十五分钟就能搞定。

And so things that used to take me a day or three days, a lot of stress, anxiety, I don't know to do this, take me forty five minutes.

这是件好事。

And that's a beautiful thing.

有些东西你确实学不会。

There are things you don't get.

我现在已经习惯了逆境，觉得挺正常的，所以不会那么生气了。

I'm so used to adversity at this point that it's kind of normal, so I don't get as pissed off.

但作为创业者，生气反而让你更有优势。

But being pissed off makes you good as an entrepreneur.

所以我得确保自己还保持着那股激情，生气能给你带来力量。

So like, I gotta make sure I'm still fired up You get pissed off energy.

你惹了我，我就非得收拾你不可。

You fucked with me, I'm gonna kick your ass.

我觉得二十五岁时更容易做到。

It's easier when you're 25, I think.

我也不清楚。

I don't know.

我早就不是那样了，就是觉得，哎呀，随便吧，无所谓。

I'm just not as I'm like, Whatever, it's fine.

就做你自己，兄弟。

You be you, dude.

这样就很好。

It's good.

你太习惯逆境了，这其实有点问题。

You get too used to adversity, and that's kind of a problem.

不过，对，我觉得这些还是挺有意思的变化。

But, yeah, so I'd say those are some of the fun changes.

对。

Yeah.

有没有什么例子，以前要花很长时间，现在却容易多了？

What's an example of something that used to take a long time, but is now just so much easier?

你看。

Look.

我们在推出 Atoms 的时候，我写了一篇愿景笔记。

I wrote a vision note when we rolled out Atoms.

那是几个月前的事了。

It was a few months ago.

当时写的内容大概就是，你看。

It was like look.

我肯定有偏见，但我觉得那篇愿景笔记写得非常好，如果是十年前或十五年前，我得花几百个小时才能写出来。

I'm biased, obviously, but it was very I think a very well written vision note ten years ago, fifteen years ago, that would have taken me, I don't know, hundreds of hours.

而且写起来特别顺手。

And it just flowed.

怎么说呢，我不能说我没怎么思考过它。

Like, okay, I can't say I wasn't thinking about it a lot.

但真正写的时候，它就是自然而然就出来了，就这么发生了。

But when I was doing the writing, it actually just flowed and just happened.

我当时就想，天哪。

I'm like, holy shit.

就这么做出来了。

It just happened.

哇，真是神奇。

Holy cow.

比如我这次为融资写的那篇，我确实拖延了，但这种事很常见。

Like the one I just did for this funding, okay, I procrastinated, but that's a thing.

但一旦我写完了，我就想，天哪，我们搞定了。

But once I did the write, I'm like, Oh, dude, we got it.

只花了四十五分钟。

It took forty five minutes.

真是太棒了。

Like, This is amazing.

这跟演讲、沟通、策略这些方面有关，我在这些方面更擅长，这挺不错的。

And that's related to presentation, communication, strategy, this kind of thing I'm faster at, which is pretty awesome.

本，你从最初认识特拉维斯到现在，你觉得他有什么变化？

Ben, how have you seen Travis evolve since you first got to know him?

再更广泛地谈谈。

And comment more broadly.

我们这里有很多连续创业者，就像特拉维斯，你取得了巨大的成功，但过程中也犯了一些错误。

We have a lot of repeat entrepreneurs in the room in terms of when, like Travis, you have a massive success that also has some mistakes along the way.

你知道，下次你会吸取哪些教训，又会确保保留和继续哪些做法？

You know, what lessons do you learn from next time versus, you know, what do you make sure to keep and continue?

因为那正是让你走到今天这一步的原因。

Because that's what that's what got you there.

嗯，我觉得这个总结真的很到位。你知道，他当时有两万员工，却还觉得自己处于生存模式。

Well, I I thought that was actually a really good way to characterize it, which was, you know, he thought he was in survival mode when he had 20,000 people working for him.

在这么大的组织里，这种想法是很危险的。

And that idea is dangerous when you have such a big organization.

这种危险体现在两个方面。

It's dangerous on two levels.

第一，就像他说的，你没有带足够多的人一起走；第二，你有这么多人为你工作，这也是个问题。

One, it's dangerous because you're not, as he said, bringing enough people along with you, but it's also dangerous in that you've got all these people working for you.

他们对这个想法的理解可能会五花八门。

And their interpretation of that idea could be a lot.

你知道，你必须把话说得清清楚楚，这样下面八层的人也不会做出蠢事。

Know, you kinda have to, you have to say way on this side of the line so the guy, you know, eight levels down doesn't do something stupid.

所以，我觉得这是一个很大的转变。

And so that, you know, that's a big change, I would say.

不过，他一直都很棒。

But like, he was always great.

一直都是，我的意思是，我们没投资优步真让人遗憾。

Always, I mean, that's why it was so tragic that we didn't invest in Uber.

对，而且我觉得，当你真有了之后，一切都会更容易。

But, yeah, and I think like when you do get, I think everything comes easier.

就像王子那句说的，人们说没有什么是太容易的，但当你得到之后，也没什么太难的了。

It was what's the Prince line, people say nothing comes too easy, but when you got it, nothing comes too hard.

他就是已经到那个境界了。

That's like, that's where he got to.

我想补充一点，不是想给各位说教，在座很多人早就知道了，但就是，当事情变容易时，正是更要发力的时刻。

One thing I'd add to it though, and again, I feel like I don't wanna prescribe to folks like everybody, a lot of folks here already know this, but it's like, when it gets easy, it's time to push hard.

我以前常说，如果事情开始变轻松，那就快要变得特别难了，你肯定不想那样。

I always used to say like, if something, if it's getting easy, it's about to get really fucking hard And you don't want it to be that way.

你要主动让事情难，而不是被事情难倒，你明白这个意思吧。

You want to make it hard versus hard and make it hard on you, if that makes sense.

对。

Yeah.

这些年来我跟很多创业者聊过，他们都说，哎呀。

And I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs over the years where they're like, oh, man.

我们现在正忙得不可开交。

We're just cranking.

现在日子过得可轻松了。

We're on easy street right now.

我就想，哥们，你马上就要吃苦头了，你自己还不知道呢。

And I'm like, dude, you are about to get your ass whooped and you don't even know it.

我也知道这个，因为我自己也经历过。

Now I know that too because of course I've experienced it myself.

对。

Yeah.

这个见解很到位。

That's a very good insight.

对。

Yeah.

所以我注意到，所有

So it's I noticed that all

时候，当我跟创业者聊天，他们开始说，哦，是的。

the time when I talk to entrepreneurs when they start going, oh, yeah.

我就觉得这很容易。

I just see it's easy.

进展太顺利了。

It's going so well.

我们会有竞争的。

We're gonna have competition.

你知道吗，我刚雇了这个人。

Know, I just hired this guy.

他本来有Anthropic给的50亿美元offer，但他接受了我这份年薪40万美元的工作，等等等等。

He had an offer from Anthropic for $5,000,000,000 but he took my $400,000 a year job, blah blah blah blah blah blah.

我就说，兄弟，你检查一下自己有没有伤口，因为我敢肯定你在流血。

I'm like, bro, check yourself for wounds because I assure you you're bleeding.

你知道吗，你遇到麻烦了。

Know, like you're in trouble.

确实。

For sure.

但有时候事情确实很容易。

But there's times when it's actually easy.

那是有人在装。

That's a guy pretending.

所以我称之为“装到成功”，他是在骗自己也在骗别人。

So I call that the fake it till you make it, which he's lying to himself plus others.

但确实有时候事情容易，那是因为你没有继续推进。

But there's actual times when it's easy, but it's because you're not continuing to push.

所以，如果你只是没赢，却假装赢了，那是一回事。

So it's one thing when you're just not winning, but you're pretending like you are.

还有一种情况是，你明明在赢，但放松了，然后马上就要开始输了。

And there's another thing when you're winning, but you're taking it easy and you're about to start losing.

对。

Yeah.

这种情况太多了。

Many such cases.

对，确实。

Yeah, for sure.

最后一个问题，我开放几个问答。

Last question, I'll open up to a couple Q and A.

所以Ben，呃，Travis，你们在Uber的第一轮外部融资，风险投资那轮，我记得好像是400万投后估值之类的。

So Ben, uh-oh, Travis, when you your first external round at Uber, the venture round, I believe was at 4,000,000 post or something like that.

是400万投前。

It's 4,000,000 pre.

你说的是Uber那轮。

You're talking about at Uber.

第一轮。

First round.

对。

Yeah.

我们在Uber的第一轮融资是400万投前估值。

Our first round at Uber was 4,000,000 pre.

这次呢，你知道，规模大了好几个数量级。

This one, you know, several orders of magnitude bigger.

Ben，我相信这是你写过的最大的一张支票之一，如果不是最大的话。

Ben, I believe this is one of, if not our biggest check, biggest check you've ever written.

是的。

Yeah.

当然是我写过的最大的一张支票。

Certainly the biggest check I ever written.

你是什么时候确信我们一定会成的？你的决策过程是怎样的？

When did you get to conviction that we were a 100% do like, what was your process like?

我当时并不认为那是一亿美元。

I was not a $100,000,000.

当我刚开始和他谈的时候，其实我一知道那是什么，我唯一的疑问就是，它会不会只是一件事？

When I first started talking to him, well, as soon as I knew what it was, the only question for me was, was it gonna be one thing?

对。

Yeah.

因为你看，我认识特拉维斯很多很多年了，他一直都是相反的，我们的谈话总是很实在。

Because look, I've known Travis for many, many, many years and he's always been the opposite of the like our conversations were always the real shit.

比如，我当时是Lyft的董事会成员，我和他聊优步，他会告诉我中国拼车公司对他做的那些事，入侵他的应用，免费送东西，等等等等。

Like when we I mean, I was on the board of Lyft, and I was talking to him about Uber, and he would tell me like all the stuff that Chinese ride sharing companies were doing to him, breaking into his apps, giving shit away for free, this and that and the other.

他对那件事很来劲。

And he was fired up about that.

就像，哦，如果我能搞定这些人，世界其他地方就都没问题了。

Like, oh, if I can deal with these guys, the rest of the world's gonna be no problem.

而且这样的人并不多。

And there are just not that many.

我跟你说，我干这行挺久了，像他那样创业的人真的很少。

There are very few, I'm telling you, I've been in this a while, very few entrepreneurs that come at it like that.

所以我知道，如果我们能把钱投给特拉维斯，而且他还是——我另外还了解到，他还是那个特拉维斯。

So I knew if we could put money in Travis, and he was still, the other thing that I learned was he was still Travis.

就是说，他没有变成那种，没有过上那种养尊处优的生活。

Like, he hadn't, like, turned into he wasn't living his best life.

他没有那样。

He wasn't doing that.

所以，是的，我很快就有了那个信念。

So, yeah, it was a very I was that conviction very fast.

我觉得很多人不知道，其实我们当时在运营着不同的公司。

I think a lot of people don't some people know this, not a lot is that we actually had separate companies going.

所以我去融资的时候，就像个穿着风衣、戴着一堆手表的人，出现在a16z，问人家：'你要手表吗？'

And so when I went to do the fundraise, I kinda showed up at a16z, kinda like the guy with a trench coat trench coat with a bunch of watches saying, You want a watch?

你想要哪一块？

Which watch would you like?

我这儿东西可多了。

I got lots of stuff.

你想要点吃的方面的吗？

Did you want some food stuff?

其实，吃的这块我也有不同的部分。

Actually, I got different parts of the food thing.

你喜欢什么？

What do you like?

我还有一些挖矿的东西。

I've got some mining stuff.

那个挺酷的。

That's pretty cool.

然后他们就说，我们就要那些东西。

And they're like, We just want the stuff.

我们最早接触的那几个人也都是这么说的。

And we heard that from the first few people that we talked to.

所以这笔交易真正的棘手之处，或者说让这笔交易更麻烦、让我们有点紧张的地方，就是我必须把几家投资方不同的独立实体合并到一起，还挺有意思的，如果有些东西还处于非常早期的话，比例该怎么算呢？

And so actually the tricky part about this deal or what added trickiness to this deal that made us sweat a little bit and just made it hard was like I had to merge separate entities with different investors and put it together, which was pretty interesting because how do you do a ratio when certain things are very early?

但超级棒的是，你看埃隆做的那些事情，他开始把各个部分重新拼起来了。

But it's super great because it was like, you see some of the things with Elon and he's starting to put the pieces back together.

他当然不只是在那些五六八项事情上表现得超凡，而且a16z也参与了其中大部分，甚至全部。

He's not only phenomenal, of course, on all the five or six or eight things, and of course a16z in most or all of them.

但他当时在管理着五六七家不同的公司。

But he was managing five or six or seven different companies.

所以我真的很想把它们整合到一个大屋檐下，这太了不起了。

And so I was really trying to put it together under a single roof, which is amazing.

他是在几十年之后才来做这件事，但这样在某些方面反而更好。

He's doing it a couple decades later, but it makes things better in some ways.

在我们进入问答环节之前，最后，特拉维斯，你简单说说把之前Uber的那帮人重新聚在一起是什么感觉？我们正把碎片重新拼回原样。

Before we get to Q and A, lastly, Travis, why don't you say a couple words about what it's like to have a lot of the Uber gang back together, we're putting the pieces back together.

安东尼，你买下的这家公司，这场子里有不少人是和你一起经历第一轮融资的。

Anthony, this company you bought, there's a bunch of people in this room who were alongside with you for the first round.

说起我刚起步的时候，对，我当时是优步的董事。

Talk about when I first got going look, I was on the board of Uber when I first got going.

所以我收到了成千上万名优步员工的联系，他们都想跟我走。

So I got thousands of inbound from actual Uber employees that are like, let's go.

但我必须小心，因为你要是一家公司的董事，就不能把他们的员工挖走几千个。

And I had to be careful because if you're on the board of a company, you can't hire thousands of their people.

那可不只是运气不好。

Bad luck.

这不止是运气不好。

It's not just a bad luck.

这其实是违法的。

It's actually illegal.

还有这一层原因。

So there's that too.

而且我对这方面的法律非常熟悉。

And I'm very familiar with the law here.

好的。

Okay.

所以你得挑人，挑时机，整套流程都得安排好。

So you pick your guys, you pick your spots, the whole thing.

但今天在座的有不少特别厉害的人。

But there's a lot of really special people in this room.

我是说，Gautam，之前在Uber当CFO的，已经加入Atoms了。

I mean, Gautam, who was the CFO over at Uber, has joined Atoms.

这是最近的事。

That's a recent thing.

Ganesh，之前在Uber当工程副总裁或高级副总裁的，也刚加入Atoms。

Ganesh, who was VP or SVP of engineering over at Uber, has just joined Atoms.

而且Uber有很多年轻有为的人加入了，现在都成了骨干。

And there's a lot of young guns at Uber that joined that are now the big guns.

对吧？

Right?

有个叫布莱恩·阿特韦尔的，是我们食品和基础设施方面的工程负责人之一。

There's a guy, Brian Atwell, who's one of our engineering leads on the food side and on infrastructure.

当然还有安东尼·莱万多夫斯基。

Anthony Levandowski, of course.

埃里克·梅杰霍夫，之前负责优步的先进技术部门，现在在搞食品机器人。

Erik Meijhofer, who ran Uber's advanced technology group, she's running food robotics.

名单还长着呢，各位。

The list goes on, guys.

哦，还有杰西卡·莫顿，她曾是优食日本区的负责人。

Oh, Jessica Morton, she was head of Uber Eats Japan.

我们刚开始的时候我去过日本，见了孙正义，因为他可能会投资。

And I went to Japan when we first got going and I met with Masa because maybe Masa's gonna be in.

我一直想不通，他老是抢我的东西，然后还投了八家跟我做同样事情的公司。

And I could never get over him just stealing my stuff and then investing in, like, eight other companies that do what I do.

然后我见了杰西，因为那是我在那儿要办的头等大事，第二大事。

And then I met with Jess because that was, like, my number one in like, my number one thing to my number one, number two thing to do there.

但她现在在做很多很酷的事情。

But she's now doing a lot of really cool stuff.

现在我们不只是优步的公司了。

Now we're not just an Uber company.

我们的高管中,非优步背景的比优步背景的还多,但那段时光和那些人都留下了很多宝贵的东西。

We have more executives that are not Uber than are, but there's a lot of heart from that time and people who were there.

就像他们说的,怎么说来着?

And it's like, what do they say?

重来一遍。

Run it back.

对。

Yeah.

但也要向前看,就是做新的、不一样的,不要停留在过去。

But there's also run it forward, which is do it new, different, don't be what you were before.

总之,我们玩得很开心。

So anyways, we're having fun.

既然说到在座各位特别的人，我想开放一些问答环节。

Speaking of special people in this room, I wanna open it up to to some q and a.

Gary。

Gary.

Travis，恭喜你。

Travis, congratulations.

我最喜欢问的一个问题，特别适合这个场合：如果你能像漂流瓶一样，寄个消息给18到22岁的自己，你会说什么？

My favorite question to ask for especially a room like this is, what if you could, like, send a message in a bottle to the 18 to 22 year old version of yourself, What to say?

你看，我18岁时是个超级极客，却还假装自己不是。

Look, the 18 year old version of me was a super geek pretending not to be.

所以我会跟他说：哥们儿，就做你的极客吧。

So I would just be like, dude, just be a geek.

一切都会好的。

It's gonna be fine.

你知道吗？

You know?

明明是个极客却要装不是，这纯粹是给自己增加不必要的心理负担。

The pretending to not be a geek when you're a geek is just a lot of cognitive load that's not necessary.

我不确定那样做事情会不会更好，但这确实是我可能会对自己说的话之一。

I'm not sure that things would have gone better, but that's certainly one of the things I probably would have told myself.

那你呢，Ben？

What about you, Ben?

说得对。

That's good.

就是别太担心，别太担心那些事，你知道的，顺其自然就好。

Just not to worry about, not to worry about stuff, you know, like it is what it is.

该做什么就做什么。

Do what you gotta do.

别等，别犹豫。

You know, don't don't wait.

结果该怎样就怎样。

Like consequence is gonna be what the consequence is.

你知道，你得找到一条出路，而且你得一直找下去，直到找到为止，没有别的办法。

You know, you gotta find a way out and you just gotta keep looking till you find it, and there's nothing else to do.

所以担心一点用都没有。

So worrying doesn't help at all.

别紧张。

No stress.

对。

Yeah.

别担心，开心点。

Don't worry, be happy.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

别担心，好好生活，但你需要

Don't worry, be well, but you need

紧迫感。

urgency.

别太高兴了。

Don't be too happy.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

别太高兴了。

Don't be too happy.

别

Don't

担心。

worry.

特拉维斯·卡兰尼克。

Travis Kalanick.

别别别，别太高兴了。

Don't don't don't be too happy.

别得意忘形。

Don't be fat and happy.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

下一个问题。

Next question.

欧文。

Owen.

问特拉维斯一个问题。

Question for Travis.

你打算怎么安排这一切？

How are you gonna structure all this?