以AI的速度组建团队 | Harvey的Maggie Landers

改造法律行业和改造客服、搭建AI框架或者创建模型是完全不同的。

Transforming the legal industry is very different than trying to transform customer support, or build an AI harness, or create a model.

你在Harvey一个月做的事情，可能比在其他地方一个季度做的还要多。

You're going to do more in a month at Harvey than you would in a quarter somewhere else.

这里有很多尝试，所以你会失败得比成功多。

There's a lot of experimentation, so you're going to fail more than you're necessarily going to get it right.

所以我觉得重点在于快速失败并纠正，去创造或构建一些从未有过的东西。

And so I think the emphasis is on both failing fast and correcting to make something or build something that has never been built before.

没有什么比看到自己的影响力更能激励人了，即使在一个大组织里，他们仍然觉得自己的每一份努力都在朝着一个更大的愿景前进。

It's like nothing inspires people more than actually seeing their impact in the world and knowing that even being part of a really large organization, they still feel like everything they're doing is working towards a much bigger vision.

在Harvey，正确的态度就是那种想要参与创造的热情。

The right sort of mentality for Harvey is that passion to be part of creating it.

法律行业有什么让你这么兴奋的？

What about the legal industry gets you so fired up?

我觉得——

I think that-

一年内增加超过1000名员工，却还想保持初创公司的运作方式，会发生什么？

What happens when you add more than 1,000 employees in a year but still want to operate like a startup?

a16z的Katie Kirsch与Harvey的人才副总裁Maggie Landers坐下来聊聊，随着公司规模扩大，他们是如何处理招聘和企业文化的。

a16z's Katie Kirsch sits down with Harvey VP of Talent, Maggie Landers, to discuss how the company is approaching hiring and culture as it scales.

Maggie解释了Harvey注重进步而非完美，给员工自主权，让他们快速行动、犯错并从中学习。

Maggie explains Harvey's focus on progress over perfection, giving employees the autonomy to move quickly, make mistakes, and learn.

他们还讨论了Harvey在招聘新员工时看重什么，以及为什么在快节奏的环境中成功需要适应模糊性和良好的判断力。

They also discuss what Harvey looks for in new hires, and why succeeding in a fast-moving environment requires comfort with ambiguity and strong judgment.

欢迎收听a16z播客。

Welcome to the a16z Podcast.

谢谢邀请。

Thanks for having me.

今天，我们邀请到了Harvey的人才副总裁Maggie Landers。

Today, we're joined by Maggie Landers, who's the VP of Talent at Harvey.

我非常兴奋。

I'm so excited.

Harvey的估值在过去一年里飙升，从2025年2月的30亿美元，到6月的50亿，10月的80亿，再到2026年3月的110亿美元。

Harvey's valuation has been skyrocketing in the past year, from $3 billion last February of 2025 to $5 billion in June, $8 billion in October, $11 billion this past March of 2026.

而你在Harvey工作，刚满一年。

And you've been at Harvey for, you just hit your one-year mark.

对吧？

Is that right?

对。

Yes.

我工作了一年多一点点。

I'm a little over one year.

这一年简直疯狂，不只是估值，公司增长、客户增长、我们团队的增长，还有产品的发展，都特别快。

It's been insane, not just the valuation, but the company growth, the customer growth, our growth, I think our product growth.

但我想说，我们并没有把这些当成理所当然。

But I would say that we don't take any of it for granted.

我觉得公司内部没有人觉得自己已经成功了，或者说已经实现了全部潜力。

I don't think there's anyone internally who feels like we've fully made it or actualized our potential.

确实还是有种创业公司的感觉。

It definitely still feels like a startup.

我们公司刚庆祝完四周年生日。

We just celebrated our fourth birthday as a company.

恭喜恭喜。

Congratulations.

生日快乐，Harvey。

Happy birthday, Harvey.

是的。

Yes.

生日快乐，Harvey。

Happy birthday, Harvey.

不过说实话，我们没有任何人觉得自己已经接近理想中要打造的公司了。

But yeah, I don't think there's any part of us that feels that we are anywhere close to the company we aspire to build.

你们会庆祝一下成绩吗，还是就是埋头苦干、全力冲刺？

Are you celebrating wins in any way, or it's just hard work, pedals to the metal?

我觉得我们确实在庆祝。

I would say we definitely are.

我们有大庆祝的方式。

I think we celebrate in big ways.

也有小庆祝的方式。

I think we celebrate in small ways.

比如在全球市场推广的渠道里，大家会不断分享成就和互相表扬。

I think that whether it's sort of our global go-to-market company sort of wins channel, where folks are constantly sort of celebrating the accomplishments and sharing kudos.

我们也会作为公司一起庆祝，比如周年庆、产品发布、里程碑这些。

I think we come together as a company for celebrations like this anniversary, product launches, milestones.

但我们也有一种“任务还没完成”的文化。

But we also have a "job's not finished" culture.

这是我们的核心价值观之一。

It's one of our core values.

所以我觉得庆祝总是对已完成工作的认可，但同时我们也在思考接下来要做什么。

And so I would say the celebration is always an acknowledgement of the great work that we've done, but then also we're thinking about what we need to do next.

我觉得这正是Harvey的核心和根本所在。

And I think that's just a very kind of core, fundamental part of what Harvey is about.

我确实觉得团队喜欢找乐子，我们做的每件事里都充满了幽默感，但我们总是会向前看。

I do think the team likes to have fun, and there's a lot of humor in everything, kind of injected in everything that we do, but we're always thinking ahead.

你之前提到过，你是员工编号340号吗？

And I think you mentioned earlier, so are you employee number, you said 340?

我的编号在300多号。

I'm somewhere in the 300s.

我的编号在300多号。

I'm somewhere in the 300s.

对，自从我加入以来，我们已经增加了超过1000名员工，而且到今年年底，我们很可能会有大约2000名员工，这太不可思议了。

And yeah, we've added over 1,000 employees since I've joined, and we'll likely be about 2,000 employees before the end of this calendar year, which is insane.

哇。

Wow.

公司超过70%的员工都是今年1月1日之后加入的。

More than 70% of the company started after January 1st of this year.

哇。

Wow.

内部感觉怎么样？

What does that feel like on the inside?

这么多新面孔。

So many new faces.

你们都是线下办公吗？

Are you all in person?

感觉如何？

What's it like?

很多新面孔。

A lot of new faces.

那些入职培训的班级感觉规模很大。

Those onboarding classes just feel big.

他们确实在扩张，是的。

They're growing, yeah.

确实在增长。

They're growing, for sure.

我觉得还是哈维的感觉，我可以解释一下……

I would say it still feels like Harvey, and I can explain-

……那是什么意思。

... what that means.

但我确实觉得我们做得很好，理解了什么能让一个人在哈维成功，并且在招聘和引进新人的时候，会特别关注这些特质。

But I do think that we've done a good job of understanding kind of what makes somebody successful at Harvey and looking for a lot of those sort of characteristics when we go to market and we bring new people on board.

我还觉得我们有很好的自我筛选机制，因为大家知道哈维是一家非常有雄心的公司，我们想做出有代际影响的东西。

I also think that we have pretty good kind of self-selection in that I think folks know that Harvey is a really ambitious company and that we are looking to be generational in what we build.

我觉得这也会吸引那些大多内在驱动、想做非常有成就感事情的人。

And I think that also attracts folks who are very sort of, for the most part, intrinsically motivated and want to do something super fulfilling.

但与此同时，这也带来了很多独特的挑战。

But at the same time, it creates a ton of unique challenges.

当大多数员工都比较新，任期不到一年时，你会看到一种独特的现象，尤其是在招聘方面，我经常看到招聘人员、招聘经理和领导都是相对新人的情况。

When the majority of folks on board are relatively new, under one year tenure, I think you have this unique dynamic where, especially on the recruiting side, I see situations where a recruiter and a hiring manager and a leader are all relatively new.

大家都在积极协作，努力搞清楚怎么把流程跑好，这个岗位到底适合什么样的人，而且很多时候，还得把以前老公司那套做法放一边。

And kind of actively working together to try to figure out how to run the process effectively, what the right fit for the role is going to be, and in many cases, leaving behind what worked at their old company-

然后实时摸索在Harvey到底什么行得通。

... and in real time trying to figure out what is going to work at Harvey.

在Harvey这样的公司工作的好处是，它既是AI原生的，而且说实话，它看重的是进步而不是完美，想快速推进——所以，你三年前或五年前做了什么、怎么做的，其实都不重要。

The beauty of working at a company like Harvey, both sort of AI native and frankly a place that values kind of progress over perfection and wants to move quickly- ... is that it almost doesn't matter what you did three years ago or five years ago or how you did it.

我觉得更重要的是你愿意积极协作，一起琢磨什么才是合理的做法。

I think it's more important that you're actively collaborating and working to figure out what is going to make sense-

在这个新世界、在这个当下。

... in this new world and at this moment in time.

我们是真的在努力改变法律行业的运作方式，做一件前所未有的事。

We're genuinely trying to transform how the legal industry works and operates and do something unprecedented.

所以每个人都在摸索，第一次尝试搞清楚怎么做，不管你是老员工还是新员工。

And so everyone's experimenting and trying to figure it out for the first time, whether you're a tenured employee or not.

听起来很让人兴奋，但也挺让人头大的，而且现在是一批全新的面孔在带另一批全新的面孔。

It sounds exciting, but also overwhelming, and that you've got completely new faces now training other completely new faces.

但你提到，我很喜欢你刚才说的，Harvey 还是那个 Harvey。

But you mentioned, I love what you said about Harvey still feels like it's Harvey.

确实是这样。

It does.

能多讲讲吗？

Tell me more about that.

我觉得 Harvey 在某些方面很特别。

I think that Harvey is unique in certain ways.

我觉得我们的节奏很特别。

I think our pace is pretty unique.

我们行动非常快。

We move very quickly.

如果你来自一个你觉得已经很快的环境，加入 Harvey 后，你会感叹“哇”。

If you come from an environment that you thought moved quickly- ... you join Harvey, and you're like, "Wow."

Harvey 行动很快。

Harvey moves fast.

你在Harvey一个月做的事情，可能比你在别处一个季度做的还多。

You're going to do more in a month at Harvey than you would in a quarter somewhere else.

你一年里做的事情，可能比你在别处几年做的还多。

You'll do more in a year than you probably would over a few years elsewhere.

所以你会很快积累很多经验——

So you actually have a lot of reps quickly-

……在摸索和找到有效方法方面。

... in terms of trying to figure things out and figure out what works.

我觉得Harvey的很多人，不管之前做什么，都挺成功的，不管是在传统环境里做律师，还是在科技公司工作过，或者刚从学校或学术项目出来。

I think that most folks at Harvey have been successful in whatever it is that they were doing previously, whether they were practicing law in a more traditional environment, if they worked at a tech company previously, if they came from school or an academic program.

我觉得加入Harvey，你得放下那种非要当优等生的心态——

And I think that there's a bit of ridding yourself of needing to be an A student-

……因为这里大多数人以前可能都是——

... when you join Harvey, where most people probably were-

……优等生，而且不管之前做什么都特别成功。

... A students, and super successful at whatever it was that they were doing previously.

因为我们做的事情，第一，非常新，第二，有很多实验性的东西，所以你会失败得比成功多。

Because what we're trying to do is, A, pretty brand new, and B, there's a lot of experimentation, so you're going to fail more than you're necessarily going to get it right.

所以我觉得重点在于快速失败、及时调整实验，同时也要放下自我——

And so I think the emphasis is on both failing fast and correcting experimentation, and also putting that ego aside-

——为了更大的目标，搞清楚我们怎么一起合作——

... for the greater good of figuring out, okay, how do we all work together-

——去创造或打造一个从未有过的东西。

... to make something or build something that has never been built before.

对，我喜欢这种“进步胜过完美”的说法。

Yeah, I like this piece around progress over perfection.

特别是当你说到那些A+学生，他们习惯了分清对错，知道怎么把事情做好，现在却被扔进一个发展这么快、几乎要边做边改写规则的环境里。

Especially when you're talking about A+ students who are used to distinguishing between right and wrong, and knowing what it takes to do something well, and they're being thrust into an environment that's growing so fast they have to almost rewrite the rules as they go.

确实。

For sure.

我还觉得，我们能提供的是学习和成长的机会，以及做真正有意义的事情的机会。

I also think that what we have to offer is this opportunity to learn and to grow and do something really meaningful.

很多人在加入之前，不管是像我这样的在职父母，还是担心这一点的人，都听说过这里文化很紧张。

A lot of people before they join, whether they're working parents like I am, if they're concerned about this, they've heard that it's an intense culture.

我觉得大家会担心哈维会不会影响他们的生活方式。

I think folks have questions about how Harvey might impact their lifestyle.

那会是什么样子呢？

What's it going to be like?

真的那么残酷吗？

Is it really cutthroat?

真的那么紧张吗？

Is it really intense?

但实际情况是，我在哈维看到的真正合作和团队精神，比我以前想象的还要多，可能比我工作过的任何地方都多。

And the reality is, I have seen more true collaboration and teamwork at Harvey than I would've ever imagined, probably more so anywhere that I've ever worked.

大家真的很想支持自己的同事。

People are really looking to support their colleagues.

我们非常强调团队一起赢。

There is a big emphasis on us winning as a team.

而且我也相信，我们所做的事情以及每个人能产生的影响，会带来这种职业上的成就感——

And I also believe that what we're doing and the impact each individual is able to have creates this career fulfillment-

……让付出的努力变得值得。

... that makes the effort required to put in worth it.

我觉得没有什么比这更糟糕的了——我无法想象还有比拼命工作却知道自己来不来都无所谓更糟糕的事了。

I think that there is nothing worse-- I can't imagine there'd be anything worse than working really hard and knowing it doesn't matter if you show up or not.

如果那份工作实际上并不重要，不会有所贡献，也不会带来任何改变。

If that work doesn't actually matter, if it's not going to contribute, if it's not going to make a difference.

所以我们能提供的就是这样一个机会，即使我们发展得这么快，你也能真正参与进来，并且知道我们带来的每一个人对我们达到下一个水平都至关重要。

And so what we have to offer is this opportunity to really come in, even as we're growing so quickly, and know that every single person we bring in is so critical in our ability to get to the next level.

而且我们给员工很大的自主权。

And we give folks a lot of agency.

所以你不会被束缚，你可以尽情发挥——

So you're not going to be held back, you're going to be able to run-

……去做事情。

... and do things.

我觉得这样就能平衡了，确实工作强度大，节奏快，但与此同时，你会得到很多反馈。

Which I think makes it balances out that, yes, it's intense, and yes, it moves fast, but at the same time, you're going to get a lot of feedback.

不仅是传统意义上的反馈，还有从影响力角度得到的反馈——

Both feedback in the traditional sense, but also just feedback from an impact perspective-

就是看到你打造、推出、营销或销售的东西——

... in seeing whatever it is that you build or that you launch or that you market or that you sell-

真正走向世界。

... get out into the world.

而且这种循环很快。

And those reps happen quickly.

对，这太棒了。

Yeah, it's amazing.

没有什么比亲眼看到自己的影响力更能激励人了——

It's like nothing inspires people more than actually seeing their impact-

完全同意。

Totally

在世界上，知道即使身处一个非常大的组织，他们仍然觉得自己所做的一切都在朝着一个更大的愿景努力。

... in the world and knowing that even being part of a really large organization, they still feel like everything they're doing is working towards a much bigger vision.

在哈维，我很难找到任何人觉得自己只是机器的一部分——

There is nobody-- I would be hard-pressed to find anybody at Harvey who feels like they're part of a machine-

——没有他们，这台机器也能照常运转。

... that could be running without them in the same way.

我觉得每个人都深深投入到自己正在做的事情中，并且知道自己有机会对任何事情产生真正的影响——

I think everybody feels deeply connected to whatever it is that they're working on and knows that they have an opportunity to make a real impact on whatever-

——无论那是什么。

... whatever that is.

这太棒了。

It's amazing.

我经常觉得，公司的文化最初来自创始人。

I often think that the culture of a company comes from, initially, the founders.

当然，今天的哈维远不止创始人那么简单，但他们仍然是哈维的重要组成部分，而温斯顿和加布里埃尔在2022年才创立哈维，那是四年前的事了。

And obviously Harvey is so much bigger than just the founders today, but they're still a massive part of what Harvey is, and Winston and Gabriel only started Harvey in 2022, which was four years ago.

现在我们说的是要在今年年底前招600人。

And now we're talking about hiring 600 people by the end of this year.

我很好奇，你觉得他们的领导风格是什么样的？

I'm curious When you think about their leadership style, what does that look like?

他们是哪种类型的领导者，在公司里是怎么展现自己，来帮助大家营造这种文化的？

What kinds of leaders are they, and how do they show up in the company to help create that culture for everyone?

我觉得他们确实定下了基调。

I think they definitely set the tone.

他们俩都非常聪明、有干劲、有动力，我觉得这是创始人的标配。

They're both incredibly brilliant and driven and motivated, which I think you expect from founders.

我觉得温斯顿和加布特别的地方在于，他们既能站在很高的战略层面，着眼未来，又能深入到细节里——

What I would say is unique about Winston and Gabe is this quality to be both sort of operate at a very high-level, strategic, future-facing altitude, and then get super into the details-

……

...

而且能同时做到这两点。

and be able to do both.

他们非常参与日常事务。

They are very involved in the day-to-day.

非常。

Very.

在Harvey，如果你想向高管团队或创始人汇报事情，不需要提交一份演示文稿，然后等上八周才能排上日程去汇报，还要经过层层审核——

Harvey is not a place where in order to present something to the executive team or to the founders, you're submitting a deck and waiting to get on some calendar to present to the exec team eight weeks out and have it-

对。

Yep

——被反复打磨、完善。

... be sort of reviewed and buttoned up.

你可以直接给Winston或Gabe发Slack消息，马上就能得到回复。

You can Slack Winston or Gabe and get a response immediately.

太棒了。

Amazing.

这种态度，加上他们的平易近人，坦白说，还有他们仍然如此关注细节，我觉得这塑造了整个高管团队的风气。

That attitude, and I think the accessibility, and frankly, the fact that they are still so in the details, shapes, I think, the broader executive team ethos.

随着我们不断扩充高管团队，我们引进了一些非常出色的新领导。

So as we've added to the executive team, and we have some incredible new leaders on the team.

Rachel Hepworth 负责市场营销。

Rachel Hepworth is running marketing.

Anit Drumright 负责产品方面。

Anit Drumright on the product side.

Brooks Evans 是我们的新任首席信息安全官。

Brooks Evans is our new CISO.

我们引进了一些经验非常丰富的领导。

We have brought in some incredible experienced leaders.

Katie Burke，首席运营官，我的上司，非常出色。

Katie Burke, COO, my boss, amazing.

这些人都兼具战略眼光和真正的日常参与，这种组合非常独特。

These folks all have that really, really unique combination of strategic vision but real day-to-day involvement-

……以及执行力。

... and execution.

所以，向那些既有远见又对如何打造产品、如何推广产品、如何把世界级的安全融入我们所做的一切有细致理解的人学习，是非常独特的。

So learning from folks who have both the vision and that sort of detailed understanding of how to build a product, or how to market a product, or how to build world-class security into everything we do is super unique.

而且我觉得很多人加入就是为了跟这些领导者之一工作，因为这基本上就是学习如何做好这些工作的大师课，他们不只是挂名，而是真正的合作者。

And I think a lot of people join to work for one of these leaders because it's essentially a master class in how to do some of these jobs, not just as figureheads but as true collaborators.

我在想象温斯顿和加布在办公室里走来走去，看着大家，问“你在做什么？”

I'm imagining Winston and Gabe, they're walking around the office, looking over at people, "What are you working on?"

我感受到的就是那种好奇的心态。

That's the kind of curious mentality I'm getting.

我的理解对吗？

Do I have the right vision there?

帮我描绘一下实际是什么样的。

Help me picture what it's like.

完全正确。

Totally.

午餐时和新员工坐在一起，他们自我介绍。

Sitting with new hires at lunch, introducing themselves.

他们还会举办创始人问答活动，我觉得这很棒。

They also do founder AMAs, which I think is great.

实际上，这些活动是由我们的实习生主持的，这非常了不起。看着他们站在公司面前，替大家问那些可能当面不好意思问加布和温斯顿的问题，真的很棒。

We actually have our interns host these, which is amazing, seeing them sort of up in front of the company asking Gabe and Winston everybody's questions that they might be too shy to ask in person.

他们俩配合得非常好。

They have a great dynamic.

我觉得联合创始人之间往往有点互补的感觉。

I think co-founders tend to have a bit of a yin and yang.

我会说他们俩有点互补的气质，但他们非常坦诚地分享对公司发展方向的看法，对行业趋势的看法。

And I would describe them as kind of having sort of a yin and yang vibe, but they speak so openly about how they see the company evolving, how they see the space evolving.

大家觉得跟他们很亲近，因为我觉得大家能理解他们的想法，因为他们愿意分享。

People feel very close to them because I think they understand what their thought process is because they share it.

当市场有变动时，温斯顿经常会很快写一份备忘录，把他的想法都写进去，发到公司的公共频道上，每个人都能看到他对形势的判断、他为什么这么认为，以及他的观点。

When something's happening in the market, it's not unusual for Winston to put a memo together quickly with all of his thoughts and put it in the company general channel, and everyone can just read what he thinks is going to happen, why he thinks it's going to happen, what his take on something is.

每个季度结束后，他都会给整个团队写一份季度总结备忘录——

After every quarter, he'll put together a quarterly memo for the whole team-

……关于他认为哪些做得好、哪些做得不好，等等。

... on what he thinks worked and didn't, et cetera.

所以我觉得，像这样广泛地分享，是非常开放的。

And so I think sharing that as broadly as we do, it's pretty open.

公司领导层分享的内容非常透明。

The company is very open in terms of what the leaders share.

董事会会议结束后，我们会把董事会演示文稿发布给全公司审阅，这样他们就能看到——

We post board decks for the whole company to review after board meetings, so they can see-

哦，哇。

Oh, wow

……董事会上分享的内容，还会在 Slack 上举办 AMA，让大家提问或获得澄清。

... what's been shared in those board meetings and host AMAs in Slack so that people can ask questions or get clarification.

我确实觉得这让大家和领导层保持紧密联系。

I do think that keeps folks very connected to the leaders.

随着我们在全球扩张，随着我们增加这么多员工，这给了你一个机会，能稍微了解他们的想法。

As we scale globally, as we add so many folks, it gives you a chance to kind of get inside their brains a little bit.

太棒了。

Love that.

最近有没有什么创始人分享的故事或者经历，让大家觉得挺有意思的，或者让你印象特别深刻的？

What's a recent story or something that the founders recently shared that people were amused by, or that stands out for you?

我不确定有没有哪一件具体的轶事。

I don't know if there's a single anecdote.

我觉得他们经常谈论自己犯过的错误，以及那些回顾起来觉得当初完全应该用不同方式处理的事情，这已经是很正常的了。

I think that it's pretty normal to hear them speak about mistakes that they've made, things that they look back on that they think we should've done completely differently.

有时候公司运气好，碰巧成功了，但这-

Times maybe where, as a company, we got lucky, but it was-

……并不是刻意安排的，或者有时候我们做出了错误的决定。

... not on purpose, or times where we made the wrong call.

我觉得这里面有很多，怎么说呢，坦诚的成分——

There's a lot of, I guess, vulnerability, for lack of a better word-

……在分享他们对事情进展的看法时也非常透明。

... transparency in terms of how they think things are going too.

没有什么神秘的，我觉得所有领导都有这种心态。

There's no mystery, and I think that all the leaders sort of share that mentality.

我们在哪些方面做得好，哪些方面需要更多努力或更多练习，哪些还没搞清楚，这些都没有什么秘密。

There's no mystery in terms of where we think we are nailing it, where we need to put in more work or more reps, what we haven't figured out yet.

而且公司层面非常开放，我觉得如果没有这种开放，人们就不会那么有影响力。

And- There's a lot of just kind of openness at the company level, and I don't think that people could be as impactful if there wasn't.

大家都知道我们共同的目标是什么。

People know what we're all kind of working toward.

听起来Harvey的文化是开放、透明、坦诚、支持、低自我，具备所有这些优秀的品质。

It sounds like Harvey's culture is open and transparent, and vulnerable, and supportive, and low ego, and it's got all these amazing qualities.

当然，不是每家公司都适合每个人。

And obviously, not every company is right for everyone.

很明显，人们为什么想加入Harvey。

It's clear why people would want to join Harvey.

但我很好奇，人们为什么会离开，或者你通常看到什么样的人不太适合Harvey？

But I'm curious, why would people leave, or why do you tend to see people not be as good of a fit for Harvey?

Harvey 正在进入青春期阶段。

Harvey is entering teenage years.

我这么说是因为我们不是那种还没找到产品市场契合点的小型初创公司。

I would describe it as such because we are not this teeny-tiny startup that hasn't found product market fit.

我们也不是那种完全成熟、历史悠久的大型上市公司。

And we're also not this fully actualized sort of old, longstanding, mega public company.

我觉得有很多人可能更喜欢那种大公司的结构、稳定性和节奏。

And I think that there are a lot of people who either prefer this sort of structure and stability and pace of one of those massive companies.

我也觉得有些人想去非常早期的初创公司，那里——

And I also think that there are people who want to be at really early startups where-

对

Yep

……

...

可能他们还没找到产品市场契合点，可能职位定义不清晰，可能你还在摸索该做什么，什么都得参与。

maybe they haven't found product market fit, maybe the role is undefined, maybe you're kind of figuring out what to work on, working across everything.

我们已经不再处于那个阶段了。

We're just not at that phase anymore.

所以我觉得，既然我们处于这种中间状态——说实话我很喜欢，我知道很多人也喜欢——就是你有愿景、战略和领导团队，人们可以从中学到很多，但你又不是那种像机器一样运转的庞然大物。

So I think that given that we're that in between, which frankly I love, and I know a lot of people love, where you've got this vision and strategy and leadership team that folks can learn a ton from, but you also aren't this big sort of behemoth that's working as a machine.

这并不适合所有人。

That's not for everybody.

有些人想要更多的结构，有些人想要更少的结构，我觉得这没问题。

Some people want more structure, some people want less structure, and I think that's okay.

我们的目标，尤其是我们招聘团队的目标，就是确保宣传册上的描述和实际体验一致。

Our goal, especially on my team as a recruiting team, is to make sure the resort matches the brochure.

我们希望人们在面试过程中尽可能接近在Harvey工作的真实状态，这样他们才能做出决定。

We want people to basically get as close to life within Harvey during that interview process as possible for them to be able to make the call.

这感觉对吗？

Does this feel right?

这让人兴奋吗？

Does this feel exciting?

这感觉像是我想要做的那种工作吗？

Does this feel like this is the kind of work I want to do?

这是让我感到兴奋的工作吗？

This is the work that gets me excited?

如果不是，我觉得我们也在做好本职工作，通过展示这个职位的内容和公司的定位，让大家自己决定要不要来，或者要不要走。

And if not, I think we're doing our job also by showcasing, I think, what the role entails, what the company is about, and knowing that people are going to self-select in, they're going to self-select out.

不过确实，我觉得这个行业、这个阶段、这个规模和工作方式，不是每个人都适合的。

But yeah, I think that the industry and the stage and the size and the way of working is not for everyone.

我喜欢你把它描述成一个过渡期，你在寻找那些愿意一起经历这个过程的人，从公司的青少年时期一直到成熟期，而且已经过了那种一切都很随意、没有明确界定的阶段，但还没有到事事都有系统化的程度。

I like how you described it as you're in this in-between period, and so you're looking for other people who are down for that ride of taking-

完全同意。

Totally

所以你需要那些愿意并且对这件事感到兴奋的人——

... a company from its teenage years all the way into adulthood, and who are kind of past the point where everything is scrappy and undefined, but not yet at the point where there's systems for everything.

而且他们得愿意接受这种不确定性，并且乐于参与其中。

And so you need people who are willing to, and excited about-

完全同意。

Totally

……去建立那些更具扩展性的系统。

... creating those more scalable systems.

完全同意。

Totally.

说得太对了。

That's absolutely right.

而且我还觉得，AI应用层的公司总体上都在试图改变各个行业。

And I also think that AI application layer companies in general are trying to transform industries.

我觉得我们吸引的是那些有很强客户导向的人——

I think that we attract folks who have a certain customer centricity-

……并且有兴趣、有愿望去真正重塑像法律行业这样的领域。

... and an interest and a desire to sort of genuinely sort of reshape something like the legal industry.

这是非常实实在在的事情。

It is very tangible.

我们和客户走得很近。

We are very close to our customers.

每次全员大会，我们都会先放一段客户感言。

We start off every all-hands with sort of a customer testimonial.

不管你在哪个团队，你都能深切感受到客户在努力做什么。

It doesn't matter what team you're on, you're very connected to what our customers are trying to do.

我们有很多律师，或者曾经执业但现在已经不再做律师的人，在Harvey担任各种角色。

And we have so many lawyers or folks who are no longer practicing law, but once were within Harvey in all sorts of roles.

当然，我们有内部法务团队，但还有应用法律研究员，他们在产品部门。

Of course, we have an internal legal team, but we also have applied legal researchers who sit in product.

我们有法律创新伙伴，他们负责和各路CIO以及创新社区对接。

We have legal innovation partners who sort of liaise with various CIOs and the innovation community.

我们有法律工程师和法律工程产品专家，他们在销售团队。

We have our legal engineers and legal engineering product specialists who sit on the sales team.

所以，我们对法律行业、对这些律所、对这些企业内部法务团队，以及他们想做的事情，怀有深深的敬意和尊重。

And so there's this deep admiration and respect for the legal industry, for these law firms, for these in-house legal teams, what they're trying to do.

而且Harvey的同事们真的是想要参与改变这一切。

And the folks at Harvey are genuinely looking to be part of transforming all of it.

我觉得有很多公司，不管他们更专注于技术栈的其他层面，比如纯粹自己建模型，或者做基础设施的公司等等——

And I think that there are a lot of companies that, whether they're focused more on the other layers of the stack, maybe purely building models themselves or infrastructure companies, et cetera-

他们的技术可能很酷，但未必能像我们这样直接接触客户。

... that have very cool technology but don't necessarily touch the customer in the same way.

我觉得这需要特定的人——有些人就是热衷于解决客户的问题，这在不同的地方可能表现不同。

I think it takes a certain person to be-- I think certain folks are motivated to work on these customer problems, and that might look different at different places.

这是不是部分激励你加入Harvey的原因？

Is that what in part inspired you to join Harvey?

或者，跟我说说你第一次听说Harvey并决定加入的故事吧。

Or actually tell me about the story of you first hearing about Harvey and deciding to join.

我在上一家公司待了将近十年，然后接到了一个招聘人员的电话。

I had been at my previous company for almost a decade, and I had gotten a call from a recruiter.

他笑着基本上说：“我有个完美的职位给你，”原因有两个。

He kind of laughed and basically said, "I have the perfect role for you," for two reasons.

一个原因是我的老板凯蒂，她可能是人事领域里最有启发性的领导者之一。

One being Katie, my boss, being probably one of the most sort of inspiring leaders in the people space.

她现在已经在Harvey担任首席运营官了。

She's now taken on the COO role at Harvey.

但我知道她的职责范围非常大，她同时处理很多不同优先事项，我能从她身上学到很多，不仅仅是招聘或人力资源方面的，还有整个商业运作。

But I knew that her scope was very big, and she was working across many different priorities, and that I could learn a ton from her, not just in the recruiting or HR space, but just about business in general.

另一个原因是Harvey在法律行业和人工智能领域做的事情。

And the other piece was what Harvey was doing in the legal industry, but also in AI.

我觉得这是一个巨大的机会。

I felt like it was a massive opportunity.

坦白说，我们走的是高端市场路线，非常以客户为中心，而AI转型不仅仅是打造一个好产品。

And frankly, we have a very upmarket motion, and we are super customer-centric, and AI transformation is more than just building a great product.

我们其实有很重的人员投入，对所有客户，我们基本上都配备了一支庞大的市场资源团队，

But we have essentially this heavy people motion where for all of our customers, we have essentially an army of go-to-market resources for them-

包括售前和售后。

... both pre-sale and post-sale.

而且我们计划在一年内扩展到16个市场。

And we had plans to get to 16 markets in a year.

所以，要实现我们的潜力，并给客户他们需要的关注，所需的增长带来了一个非常独特的招聘挑战——

So the growth that was going to be required to sort of actualize our potential and essentially give our customers the attention they needed created a very unique recruiting challenge-

——就是我们要在多短的时间内，在这么多不同的市场里快速扩张，同时还要保持高质量和关怀，并且维持一个很高的标准。

... in terms of how quickly we were going to have to hyper-scale across so many different markets and do it with a level of quality and care while maintaining a really high bar.

所以，特别是我的角色，能产生影响的机会非常独特。

So the opportunity for impact in my role in particular was pretty unique.

我知道增长计划是什么。

I knew what the growth plans were.

我入职后，增长计划很快就扩大了。

The growth plans expanded quickly after I started.

而且我确实不确定这是否可能。

And I definitely wasn't sure it was possible.

我不确定我们能否做到。

I wasn't sure we could pull it off.

我觉得这就是Harvey的故事。

And I think that's sort of the story of Harvey.

你加入的时候，被要求去做一些你其实不确定能不能做到的事情——

You join, and you're being asked to do something that you don't actually know is maybe whether or not it's maybe possible or possible-

——不确定在那么短的时间内能不能做到，或者能不能达到你觉得自己应该达到的那种水平和执行力，但你就是去做了。

... in that amount of time or possible at the level or quality and execution that you think you should be able to operate, but then you just do it.

你就是去做了。

You just do it.

我们在a16z的新媒体团队有个有趣的说法，我们常说：“你直接去做就行了。”

We have a funny saying on the new media team at a16z, we always say, "You can just do things."

有时候——

And sometimes-

——你就是得去做。

... you just got to do it.

总得有人去做。

Someone's got to do it.

你得真正投入进去，撸起袖子，自己想办法搞定。

And you just got to get in there, roll up your sleeves, and figure it out.

听起来这个角色就是这样的。

It sounds like that's what the role was.

就像在说：“Maggie，我们觉得你能行。”

Like, "Maggie, we think you can do it."

当然。

For sure.

而且我们也会帮你一起做。

And also, we're going to help you do it.

这也是很重要的一部分。

So that was a big part of it, too.

我觉得，作为招聘负责人或人才负责人，领导们如何看待这个职能很关键。

I think that in a head of recruiting role or a head of talent role, it's important how the leaders look at the function.

重要的是，他们真的相信，去市场上招到行业里最优秀的人才是很重要的。

It's important that they actually believe that it matters to go out to market and hire some of the best people in the industry.

重要的是，他们相信自己的职责之一就是做这件事。

It's important that they believe that part of their job is doing that.

把人才招进来不是另一个团队的事。

It's not another team's job to just go out and bring folks in.

而且，他们也愿意投入资源和人力。

And also, they were willing to resource it and staff it.

我觉得，要求人们突破自我，一个非常重要的部分就是给他们资源和支持，还有——

That is a very important component of, I think, asking people to push themselves is to give them the resources and the support, and-

……我们在各个方面都是这么做的。

... we do that across the board.

所以我的团队，我想说，在一年内从大约16人增加到80人，以支持这种增长。

So my team went from, I want to say about 16 to 80 folks in a year in order to support that growth.

那真是太了不起了。

That's incredible.

如果你看看其他团队，无论是工程团队、产品团队还是市场团队，我想他们都会同意，他们得到了所需的所有工具——

If you look across other teams, whether it's engineering teams or product teams or marketing teams, I think that they would all agree that they're being given all the tools that they need-

这样才能做好他们该做的事，为客户打造出色的产品。

... in order to do what they need to do and build something great for our customers.

你们现在正在招聘几百人吧。

And you're hiring hundreds of people right now.

是的。

We are.

那是怎么运作的？

How does that work?

你们在招哪些团队？

What teams are you hiring for?

哪些职位？

What roles?

我想听听面试流程。

I want to hear about the interview process.

我们现在有超过400个职位空缺，所以具体职位我就不一一说了。

We have over 400 jobs open right now, so I won't go into the specific roles.

不过我们每个团队都在招人。

But we are hiring across every team.

基本上每个地区我们都在招人。

We are hiring pretty much across every region.

我们已经新增了很多地区。

We have added many new regions.

未来还会继续增加一些新地区。

We will continue to add some new regions.

今天我就不透露具体是哪些了，不过——

I won't share any today, but-

敬请期待。

Stay tuned.

敬请期待。

Stay tuned.

面试流程确实因团队而异。

The interview process definitely differs by team.

工程团队的面试流程和销售开发代表的流程差别很大，这你应该能想到。

The engineering loop looks very different than the SDR loop, as you would expect.

我想说的是，不同流程和不同地区之间有一些共同点，我们有一个价值观面试——

I would say that the commonalities across the processes and different regions, we have a values interview-

……

...

所有候选人到现场时都会参加。

for all candidates when they come on site.

价值观面试围绕我们的三大价值观展开，也就是简洁、果断，以及工作还没完成。

The values interview is structured around our three values, so simplicity, decisiveness, and job's not finished.

这既是一个了解候选人过去工作方式的机会，也是让候选人深入了解我们价值观的机会，他们可以提问，了解这些价值观的含义以及在实际中如何体现。

It's an opportunity both to understand how people have worked in the past, but also Give candidates the chance to dig in and dive into our values and ask questions about what they mean and how they show up.

而且说实话，就像我们之前聊到的自我选择，候选人可以想想，这是不是我想工作的那种环境？

And frankly, as we talked before about self-selection, think about, is this the kind of environment where I want to work?

以及他们会如何带着这些价值观去处理可能出现的各种情况。

And how they might approach scenarios that come up with those values in mind.

你能用一句话简单介绍一下这些价值观，以及你们看重什么吗？

Can you give me a quick one-liner on each of these values and what you look for?

当然可以。

Absolutely.

比如果断这个价值观，温斯顿喜欢说我们不会去算天气的平方根。

So, for decisiveness, Winston loves to say we don't take the square root of the weather.

这是什么意思？

What does that mean?

基本上就是说我们想快速行动。

What it basically means is we want to move fast.

我们宁愿犯错然后学习，也不愿意过度分析，花大量时间——

We'd rather make mistakes and learn than overanalyze and spend all this time-

——去反复琢磨事情会怎么发展，或者你对这个那个有什么看法。

... pontificating on how is this going to go or what do you think of this thing or that thing.

这更像是愿意去构建，把东西推向世界，然后迅速做出反应。

It's almost about just being willing to build and put things out into the world and then react really quickly.

所以我觉得，这就是驱动我们节奏的核心价值观或心态。

And so that is, I think, the underlying value or mentality that drives our pace.

你不能以我们的节奏运作，却完全害怕犯错。

You can't operate at the pace we do and be completely afraid to make a mistake.

你不能以我们的速度前进，却让三百个人对每个决定都发表意见——

You can't move at our pace and get 300 people to weigh in on every decision-

不可能

Impossible

——你想做的每个决定。

... that you want to make.

这里不是靠共识来推动的。

It's not a consensus-driven place.

关键在于人们能够主动承担责任、发挥影响力，做出决定并向前推进，同时也能在决定错误时勇于承担。

It's really about people being able to take ownership and leverage, and make those decisions and move forward, and be able to own when they were the wrong decisions.

但也要明白，如果我们不行动，就永远无法推动事情前进。

But also understand that if we don't act, we're never going to move things forward.