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我觉得在生活中，如果你从可能的事情开始，就不可能做出伟大的事。
I think in life it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible.
你必须从正确的事情开始。
You have to start with what's right.
嘻哈并没有那么大。
Hip-hop's not that big.
创造这种艺术形式的人并不多，所以我们为什么不能向他们致敬呢？
The guys who made the art form are not that many, and so why can't we honor them?
承认、庆祝，然后把这些人聚在一起，这是行业早就该做的事。
Acknowledging and celebrating, and then bringing this group of people together is something that the industry should've done a long time ago.
当人们看到我，看到我的热情，他们会觉得这家伙依然有那股劲儿。
When people see me and they see my passion, this nigga's still got it.
他还在做这件事。
He's still doing it.
因为我必须做。
Because I have to.
嘻哈可没有社会保障。
Hip-hop don't have social security.
你得靠自己努力。
You have to work.
嘻哈的核心就是不断成长、变得更好，我觉得我们正在用《Paid in Full》活出我们的歌词。
The whole thing about hip-hop is about to grow, to be better, and I think we are living our lyrics with Paid in Full.
我希望全世界都知道Grandmaster Caz长什么样，为他所做的一切庆祝、鼓掌，也庆祝Roxanne、Melle、D.O.C.，以及所有取得这些成就的人。
I want everybody to know around the world what Grandmaster Caz looks like, and to celebrate him and applaud this man for what he's done, and celebrate Roxanne, and celebrate Melle, and the D.O.C., and everybody else who's had these achievements.
关键在于荣誉。
The thing is the honor.
关键在于把你放到你应得的光芒之下。
The thing is putting you in the light that you deserve to be in.
如果你正在看这个视频，并且热爱嘻哈，
If you're watching this and love hip-hop
嘻哈改变了音乐、时尚、语言和文化，但许多创造它的人从未获得与他们的贡献相匹配的认可或经济回报。
Hip-hop changed music, fashion, language, and culture, but many of the people who built it never received the recognition or financial rewards that matched their impact.
在这一集里，我和本·霍洛维茨一起，跟纳斯、大师卡兹和史蒂夫·斯托特坐下来，聊聊“全额付款”基金会背后的故事，以及它致敬嘻哈先驱的使命。
In this episode, Ben Horowitz and I sit down with Nas, Grandmaster Caz, and Steve Stoute to tell the story behind the Paid in Full Foundation and its mission to honor hip-hop's pioneers.
我们讨论了为什么这个基金会要把经济支持和认可结合起来，当几代嘻哈艺术家聚在一起时会发生什么，以及为什么给这些艺术家应有的荣誉不仅仅是一个奖项。
We discuss why the foundation pairs financial support with recognition, what happens when generations of hip-hop artists come together, and why giving these artists their flowers is about more than an award.
卡兹还分享了那种认可对他个人的意义，从他在嘻哈历史中的地位，到“全额付款”如何改变了他的生活。
And Caz shares what that recognition has meant firsthand, from his place in hip-hop history to how Paid in Full helped change his life.
所以，这是这群人第一次聚在一起公开谈论“全额付款”基金会。
So this is the first time this group has gotten together to publicly talk about the Paid in Full Foundation.
各位，欢迎来到播客。
Guys, welcome to the podcast.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Thank you.
那么，本，你来介绍一下这个基金会吧，也许我们可以从起源故事开始，你想讲多早都行，讲讲它是怎么来的。
So Ben, why don't you introduce the foundation and maybe let's get into the origin story, as far back as you want to go, as to how this came to be.
Paid in Full 是一个旨在致敬那些创造了嘻哈这一有史以来最重要的音乐艺术形式之一的人们的组织，并确保他们在经济上、精神上和文化上都得到充分的回报。
So Paid in Full is an organization meant to honor the legacy of the people who created one of the most important musical art forms of all time, hip-hop, and make sure that they're paid in full financially, spiritually, and culturally.
这个想法最初是由我、史蒂夫和纳斯一起开始的。
And the idea kind of started with me, Steve, and Nas.
我一直觉得不舒服的是，我花10美元买了《Paid in Full》这张专辑，而在我职业生涯中，科技圈的人都知道，我从这张唱片中获得了至少价值500万美元的东西，但当时没有办法回报，而且这笔账必须还。
So it always bothered me that I bought Paid in Full, the album, for $10 and I got, in my career, and people in tech know this, I probably got at least $5 million worth of value out of that record, but there was no way to pay it back, and it needed to be paid back.
所以最初我有了这个想法，然后我打电话给史蒂夫。
And so I had the idea originally, and I called Steve.
史蒂夫和我已经做了很多年的朋友，我说：“史蒂夫，我有个想法。
Steve and I have been friends for many, many years, and I said, "Steve, I have this idea.
你觉得怎么样？”
What do you think?"
他说：“这不仅仅是个好主意，而且是个非常及时的主意，因为现在大家都在谈论这件事，但没有人真正去做。”
And he said, "Well, it's not only a good idea, but it's a very timely idea because people are talking about this right now, but they're not doing anything."
所以如果你听这个播客，人们会说，哦，这些说唱歌手，这些老家伙，他们都没钱。
So if you listen to the podcast, people are saying, oh, these rappers, these old guys, they don't have any money.
他们被说成过气、被说成这样那样，各种说法都有。
They're dusty, they're this, they're that, and all these kinds of things.
这些人其实非常重要，但没人真正做点什么。
And these are very important guys, but nobody's doing anything.
所以我就想，那不如我们来做点事吧。
And so I thought, well, let's do something.
然后我下一个电话打给了纳斯，纳斯有个很棒的见解，因为我们亲爱的朋友昆西·琼斯有个叫爵士基金会的组织，专门给那些老爵士乐手送钱。
And then the next call I made was to Nas, and Nas had a great insight because a lot of the concept, our dear friend, olive of our friend, Quincy Jones, had a thing called the Jazz Foundation where he would get money to the old jazz guys.
我把这个想法告诉纳斯，纳斯说：“在嘻哈圈这样行不通，因为嘻哈圈里你不能直接给人钱。”
And I told it to Nas, and Nas said, "That's not going to work that way in hip-hop, because in hip-hop, you can't just give somebody money.
“必须比那更多。”
It has to be more than that.
“必须是对他们所做之事和他们本人的认可。”
It has to be a recognition of what they did and who they are."
所以那时我们就有了这个想法：办一个大型颁奖典礼，设立一个‘大师奖’来表彰嘻哈真正的传奇人物，然后邀请所有人来致敬这些人。
And so that's when we got the idea of, well, let's have a big awards show, have this idea of the Grand Master Award for the true greats of hip-hop, and then invite everybody to honor these guys.
我们一开始就请了两位传奇人物，Scarface 和 Rakim。
And we started it off with two all-time greats, Scarface and Rakim.
那我也想补充一点——
Well, I'll just add to that-
如果你不介意的话。
... if you don't mind.
其实在第一次颁奖典礼之前，这件事就非常及时，因为 Scarface 当时正面临健康问题。
Before we even got to the first show, it was also timely because Scarface was going through a medical condition.
是的。
Yes.
我记得我当时在法国南部，我打电话给他，他需要换肾。
And I remember I was in south of France, and I called him and he needed to get his kidney.
他必须接受他儿子的肾，做肾移植手术，而且当时医生也不合适，显然这件事本身就让人非常担心，但更具体的问题是钱和做手术的医生。
He had to get his kidney from his son, a kidney transplant, and it wasn't the right doctors, and obviously there's a lot of care and concern on that anyway, but more specific was the money and the doctor who was performing the surgery.
我给他打了电话，我和 Scarface 认识很多年了，但当我六月份真的从法国南部打电话给他，告诉他我们要做的事情时，他非常震惊。
And I called him, and I've known Scarface for years, but when I called him literally from the south of France in June, and he got that phone call from me about what we were going to do, he was in shock.
你想想看，一个两年没联系的人突然打来电话，而且一开口就提到你的病情，还告诉你钱的事我们包了。
I mean, just imagine, just a phone call comes randomly from a guy you hadn't spoken to in two years, and I'm calling you about your medical condition, and I'm telling you that we got you financially.
哇。
Wow.
我们会帮你的。
We're going to help you.
我记得后来我给Ben打电话，跟他说：“我跟Scarface聊过了，他简直不敢相信。”
And I remember calling Ben after that and saying, "Look, I spoke to Scarface, man, and he was in disbelief."
其实一开始，很多人都觉得难以置信，根本不相信这是真的。
In fact, early on, people were in such disbelief, they didn't believe that it was real.
我们当时很难——
We had a hard time-
他们以为是骗局。
They thought it was a scam
我们真的很难帮到人，因为他们都不信。
We had a hard time actually helping people- ... because they didn't believe it.
嗯，关于这个我倒是有一些故事，不过我都不知道能不能提那些名字。
Well, I have some stories on that of, I don't even know if I can mention the names.
但确实有人因为觉得那是骗局，最后没拿到奖。
But we had people who literally didn't get the award because they thought it was a scam.
他们就是不想沾这个事。
They just didn't want to mess with it.
这其实更坚定了我们的想法：如果你是在庆祝这位艺术家，而不是像在给补偿金一样，而是真正地尊重他们，给予他们应得的荣誉和尊严——这些他们之前没有得到过的——那这种方式才会被接受和认可。
And that's actually what reinforced the belief that if you celebrated the artist, and it didn't feel like you were giving them something like reparations, but you were actually celebrating them and give them the honor and dignity they deserve that they had not received properly, then that would be the way that it would be accepted and celebrated.
直到我们办了第一届，
And it wasn't until we did the first one
其实就跟其他初创公司一样，用胶带粘一粘，对吧？
And it was like any other startup, use duct tape and- ... right?
只要能把这事情搞起来，什么办法都行。
Whatever we got to do to get this thing going.
但我们有Scarface和Rakim，当然还有董事会的支持，Nas也在董事会里，这些都帮了大忙。
But we had Scarface and Rakim, and then obviously the support of the board and having Nas on the board, and that all helped.
后来这件事开始在社区里传开，大家意识到有变化正在发生，这才真正起了作用。
And then it was starting to go through the community, there is something that's happening, and that's when it worked.
说实话，刚开始打电话联系的时候，大家都难以置信，心里都在想：怎么会有人来做这种事？
But literally it was disbelief from the initial phone calls and just initial reach out, like why would anybody do this?
他们被亏待了太久太久了。
That's how fucked they've been for so long.
现在怎么突然有人愿意过来看看，还想帮帮我们呢？
Why would anybody come look and try to help us now?
对，说真的，说唱圈之前太不像话了，大家不互相支持，搞得四分五裂，每个人都只顾自己。
Yeah, and how fucked the rap community has been, to not show love, to be so divided, to act like it's every man for himself.
说唱确实竞争激烈，但到了一定程度，我们得把它拉回正轨，回到它本该有的样子。
Rap is competitive, but at some point we got to bring it around to what it's supposed to be.
挺有意思的，以前从来没人做过这种事。
And it was funny, nothing like this ever existed.
就像你刚才跟我聊的时候，我心里也在想，怎么到现在才有人做这件事呢？
It's sort of like when you were talking to me, I was like, "Why hasn't this happened?"
我身边正好是一群对的人，在聊对的事情，感觉就像是在挑战我们，看我们敢不敢做这样的事。
I'm in the right circle of people to be talking about the right thing, and it was almost like it was daring for us to even to do something like this.
嗯，这种事情吧，我觉得总得有人站出来。
Well, it's one of those things where I think somebody got to step up at some point.
这就是历史的特点，人们总觉得事情是必然发生的，但其实不是。
And that's the thing about history in general is people act like things are inevitable, but they're not.
总得有人去做点什么。
Somebody's got to do something.
关键就在这里……事情一旦做成了，看起来就很理所当然，但在有人站出来之前，它就不会发生。
And that's been the thing that's ... Once it's done, it's very obvious, but until somebody steps up, it doesn't happen.
其实，我在纽约遇到Caz，差不多就是第一年的时候。
And actually, I met Caz in New York right around the first year.
我记得我们聊得很开心，但后来回头才真正意识到Caz有多重要。
And I remember we had a great conversation, but then going back and re-understanding how important Caz was.
Steve，我问你一个问题。
Steve, let me ask you this.
如果在不同的环境和时机下，Caz会有多出名？
In a different circumstance and a different kind of timing, how big would have Caz been?
Caz，我见过你之后就一直提起你。
Caz, I talked about you after I met you.
我经常说起你。
I speak about you.
你现在依然那么有魅力，真的，现在——
The fact that you are so charismatic, still, right now-
现在
Right now
……你心里没有一丝怨恨，而且你表现得像个明星。
... that you hold no bitterness in your heart, and you present yourself as a star.
我的意思是，这很明显。
I mean, it's clear.
如果你晚12年出现，那简直不可想象。
If you would've been, 12 years later, just forget it.
顺便说一句，如果你从一开始就得到了你应得的认可……
By the way, if you would've actually just got the credit you deserve from the-
从一开始
From the start
……在最初阶段……我们甚至不用快进到12年后，我只是想说，当你走进一个房间时，气氛都会随之改变。
... in the beginning- ... we wouldn't even have to fast-forward it 12 years, but I'm just saying that when you walk into a room, it shifts.
你拥有那种级别的场域、才华和明星气场。
You have that level of presence and talent and star power.
所以我觉得，那个时代确实没有过时，但是-
So, I think it's definitely ageless, the time period, but-
让我感到震惊的是，大家其实都知道Caz发生了什么事。
... it was shocking to me that, again, everybody had known what had happened to Caz.
所有人都-
Everybody-
这是嘻哈圈的原罪
It's the original sin of hip-hop
不过，知道的人还是不够多。
... not enough people knew, though.
与此同时。
At the same time.
知道的人不够多，但该知道的人都知道了。
Not enough people knew, but the right people knew.
业内都知道。
The industry knew.
对。
Yes.
音乐圈都知道这件事。
The music industry knew that.
百分之百。
100%.
音乐圈——
The music industry-
音乐圈里的人都知道。
The music industry knew.
卡兹写了那首后来变成《说唱者的喜悦》的歌词。
Caz wrote the rhyme that became Rapper's Delight.
那些都是他的原创词。
Those were his rhymes.
而且上面还署了他的名字。
With his name.
名字都写进歌词里了。
With his name in the rhymes.
第一首热门歌曲。
The first hit.
结果被偷走了——
And it was stolen-
第一首嘻哈热单。
First hip-hop hit.
对，第一首嘻哈热单是从他那儿偷来的，他没得到应有的认可。
Yeah, the first hip-hop hit was stolen from him, and he didn't get what he deserved.
而且所有人都知道，但没人采取任何行动，也从没人提过，根本没人当回事。
And everybody knew it, but no one ever did anything about it, never said anything about it, didn't give a fuck about it.
在我们开董事会电话会议，考虑要表彰谁的时候，能有这么一群人一起审视这些案例、决定把奖颁给谁，是一种特权。你一提某些人的名字，大家就一致同意。
When we were having our board calls, and we were thinking about who we were going to honor, one of the privileges of having this group of people looking at the cases and deciding who we're going to give the award to, you say certain people's names, and it's unanimous.
就像——
It's like-
对
Yes
……所有人，就像，对，然后每个人都在争着说自己的“对”更“对”。
... everybody, it's like, yes, and then everyone's arguing why their yes is more yes.
就像，嘿，Caz，对，但你不明白我为什么说“对”。
It's like, yo, Caz, yes, but you don't understand why I said yes.
因为大家都特别高兴我们终于选对了人。
Because everybody's so delighted that we nailed the person.
然后你见到那个人，当他们走进房间的时候，那画面真的太美了。
And then you meet the person, and it is so beautiful when they walk in the room.
我们很幸运，表彰过的人不仅配得上这份荣誉，而且接到电话的时候，他们不会说“早该如此”或者——
And we've been blessed to have honored people who not only deserve it, but when they got the phone call, they didn't come in with, "About time," or-
……那种态度。
... any of that kind of energy.
他们走进来，笑容满面，神采奕奕。
They came in, smile, bright, glowing.
我想起Caz和Shaunte，当我——
I think about Caz and Shaunte, when I-
……就想想那个画面。
... just think about that.
整个人都在发光。
Just glowing.
当Roxanne获奖时，她说她的孩子从来没说过“妈妈，你看那些女说唱歌手拿了那么多奖。”
When Roxanne got the award, and she said her child never said, "Mom, you see all these female rappers getting all these awards.
你有没有为此感到过苦涩，或者你对此毫无感觉？
Don't you ever feel bitter about that, or you don't feel anything about that?"
她说：“不，我并不想要那个奖。
She's like, "No, I didn't want that award.
我想要的是真正属于我的奖。”
I wanted the right award."
“全额兑现。”
"Paid in full."
我当时就想——
And I was like -
……那真是太棒了。
... that's awesome.
太棒了，我们能够做到这一点，能够现在就给这些艺术家应有的认可，而且让艺术家参与未来的投票——
That's awesome that we were able to do that and to be able to give these artists that recognition right now, and then having the artist be a part of voting for the future-
是的
Yes
……获奖者。
... recipients.
所以，Caz现在也是获奖者了，而且他还是委员会的一员，参与投票选出未来的获奖者。
So, Caz is now a recipient, and he's part of the committee who's voting for future recipients.
这就是这个基金会不断传递的礼物。
And that's the gift that keeps giving about this foundation.
而Shaunte是我能来到这里的原因之一。
And Shaunte is one of the reasons I'm here.
她和我来自同一个街区，就是同一个地方。1984年、1985年她发布《Roxanne's Revenge》的时候，她还是个孩子。
She's from my neighborhood, same neighborhood, and when she released Roxanne's Revenge back in 1984, 1985, she was a kid.
比我大一点，但也是个孩子。
Older than me, but a kid.
当我看到她能在电台上说唱，
And when I saw that she could be on the radio rapping
……还能跟男人对着干，感觉她就像个活动家。
... and going after men, it was like she was an activist.
而且打败了他们。
And beating them.
而且打败了他们。
And beating them.
她就像个活动家，女性活动家，因为这在嘻哈界是前所未闻的。
She was like an activist, a woman's activist, because that was unheard of in hip-hop.
当我看到她那么大胆，去挑战一个完整的知名说唱团体，改变整个事情的走向，对我来说，那真是无比鼓舞人心。
And when I saw her be that bold, and to challenge a whole established rap group and change the course of this whole thing, for me, that was incredibly inspiring.
所以让她参与进来，对我来说还是觉得不可思议。
So to have her be a part of this, to me it's still crazy.
我很喜欢。
I love it.
对我来说，当我被拉进来的时候，你懂我的意思吧，我完全不知道发生了什么。
For me, when I was kind of brought in, you know what I mean, I had no idea what was going on.
我只是知道一个很久以前认识的人联系了我，我们好多年没联系了，那个人就是昆西——
I just know somebody that I know from a while back reached out to me I hadn't heard from in years, and that was Quincy-
……或者QD3。
... or QD3.
我就说：“Q，最近怎么样？”
And I'm like, "Q, what's up, yo?"
聊了些有的没的。
This and that, such and such.
他也跟我聊了些有的没的。
He's like this and that.
他说的挺含糊的，但他说：“我想让你来市中心一趟”，然后我就去了，就这样，然后我就认识了Ben和其他人，其实我当时也没完全搞清楚状况。
He was pretty vague, but he was like, "I want you to come downtown," and you know what I mean, this and that, and that's when I met Ben and everybody, and I really wasn't fully, you know what I mean.
但某种程度上，我算是被考察了一下。
But I was being vetted to some degree.
你懂我意思吧？
You know what I mean?
“我们想要这个人。
"We want this guy.
看看他脑子里在想什么。
Let's see where his head is at.
看看他的态度，因为我见过或听说过其他一些值得的人却没有……
Let's see where his attitude, because I've seen or heard about other people who deserve but don't..."
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
我就是带着我的精神来的。
I just came just with my spirit.
而且之前这些人提到过，或者谁提起这个话题，说‘嘿，我们应该给那些老前辈们一百万美元。’
And the fact that so many people these guys had alluded to earlier, had brought this up earlier, or who brought up the subject, "Yo, we should give the old school dudes a million dollars."
我觉得Swizz Beatz——
I think Swizz Beatz-
……把这件事公开了——
... made it public-
向Swizz致敬。
Shout out to Swizz
……第一次。
... first time.
不是想打断你，但我刚才确实说了。
Not to interrupt you, but I just did.
抱歉，但我必须得说。
Sorry, but I had to say it.
你说那话的时候，让我想起了一件事。
When you were saying that, you reminded me of something.
我在一本杂志上说过这个，好像是九十年代。
I spoke about this in a magazine, I think in the '90s.
他们问我我会怎么做，也可能是2000年。
They asked what would I do, or maybe the year 2000.
他们问了一帮嘻哈艺人，而我描述得一模一样。
They asked a bunch of hip-hop artists, and I described this to a T.
上个月有人跟我提起这事，我都忘了自己说过那些话。
Somebody pointed that out to me last month, that I forgot I even said that.
是你播下的种子。
You planted the seed.
所以我们一直想要这种东西。
So we all been wanting this type of thing.
抱歉又打断你，因为刚才那个回忆让我太激动了。
Sorry to cut you off again, because I just got excited at that memory.
我会和本争论嘻哈音乐。
And I would debate hip-hop with Ben.
我会和史蒂夫永远争论嘻哈音乐。
I would debate hip-hop with Steve forever.
我和史蒂夫会为了意见不合而停止交谈。
Me and Steve will stop speaking about disagreeing.
我和本会把一张专辑分析到极致。
Me and Ben will analyze an album to death.
本和你聊过之后，给我发了一段你们谈论舒格希尔帮等内容的视频。
Ben got with you and sent me a video of your conversation about Sugarhill Gang and everything.
我真不敢相信你那么在意——
I couldn't believe that you cared so much-
你来自湾区，却对嘻哈史上最伟大的起源故事这么上心。
... being from the Bay, about the origin story of some of the greatest hip-hop history ever.
不过我也不该惊讶，因为我们对文化的热爱是一样的。
But I shouldn't have been surprised, but it was just like the care that we have for the culture is the same.
就像卡斯，我跟你聊我们的历史。
Like Cas, I talk to you about our history.
每次我找你，我都缠着你问这年那年发生了什么——
Every time I approach you, I'm stalking you about what happened this year and that year-
没错
No doubt
——还有别的。
... and the other.
所以，“付全款”这件事，是我们说服自己可以聚在一起、真正见面聊，而不是只在远处空谈的方式。
So, the Pay the Full thing is a way that we convinced ourselves that we can be together and we can get together and not just talk about it from afar.
我们真的可以和Cas聊聊。
We could actually talk to Cas.
我们真的能和Rakim坐在同一个房间里，这不再是一件遥不可及的事情。
We could actually be in a room with Rakim, and it's not just this thing that's so spread out.
它把我们聚在了一起。
It's bringing us together.
对。
Yes.
感觉就像同学聚会一样。
It feels like a class reunion.
是的。
Yes.
去年，当Dr. Dre听说Paid in Full并决定来的时候——
And last year, when Dr. Dre heard about Paid in Full and decided to come-
哦，没错。
Oh, that's right
……
...
我当时都惊呆了，他居然问我能不能把他介绍给 Kool Moe Dee，而且他们之前从来没见过。
I was in shock that he asked me, could I introduce him to Kool Moe Dee, he never met him before.
我心里想，首先我压根儿就没往那方面想过。
And I was like, "First of all, I would never even think of that."
并不是说 Dr. Dre 以前没听说过 Kool Moe Dee。
Not that Dr. Dre never met Kool Moe Dee before.
所以德雷在拉斯维加斯也对我做了同样的事。
So Dre did this to me, too, in Vegas.
他问我能不能把他介绍给slick Rick认识。
He said could I introduce him to Slick Rick.
他们之前从未见过面。
He'd never met him before.
天哪。
Oh my God.
你说吧。
Go ahead.
你说吧。
Go ahead.
真没想到，是这样一个活动把这些大咖聚到了一起。
It's wild that it took this foundation to bring these type of people together.
而且他们之间的情谊特别深。
And the bond is that strong.
这份情谊深到过了二三十年，Dr. Dre 功成名就了，还会说：“哥们儿，你能帮我引荐一下 Slick Rick 和 Kool Moe Dee 吗？”
The bond is so strong that 25, 30 years removed, Dr. Dre, with all of his glory and success, is like, "Man, could you please introduce me to Slick Rick and Kool Moe Dee?"
但同时，也正是因为这场庆祝活动，才让这些传奇人物聚到了同一个房间里——
But at the same time, that it took this celebration in order to bring these legends together in the same room-
没错。
Agreed
——才有了那样的时刻。
... to create that moment.
我觉得这个行业本身就把大家分开了，看谁成功、地位多高，你懂的，谁正红、签了哪家厂牌……
I think the industry itself separates us by success, status, you know what I mean, who's hot, who's signed-
……谁跟谁有关系之类的，你明白我的意思吧？
... who this and that, you know what I mean?
所以这么多年来，我要是见到 Nas，那纯属巧合或者偶然。
So if I see Nas, it's by happenstance or something, all these years.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
互相尊重，你懂的吧？
Mutual respect, you know what I mean?
但我平时也没怎么见到他。
But I don't see him all the time.
要是他主动联系，或者像以前那样合作个项目，跟我说：‘嘿，Cas，我想让你也参与进来……’
If he reaches out or something, as he's did in the past, and done a project and say, "Yo, Cas, I want you to be a part..."
那我肯定二话不说，立马加入。
I'm on it, automatically.
我不用非得见到他什么的。
I ain't got to see him or none of that.
只要说一声，我马上就到。
Just say it and I'm there.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
现在，我每年都能见到他。
Now, I see him every year.
我可以直接给他打电话。
I can call him on the phone.
史蒂夫·斯托特。
Steve Stoute.
你听说过史蒂夫·斯托特吧，大商人。
You hear about Steve Stoute, big businessman.
他让很多人发了财。
He done made this person rich.
他确实——
He done-
这是一个每年都在壮大的特殊时刻。
It's a special moment that is growing every year.
它每年都在增长，而且正如卡斯所说，这种把艺术家分开的想法——
It's growing every year, and to Cas's point, this idea of separating artists-
我不确定为什么会这样。
I'm not sure why that happened.
我不确定是行业有意为之，还是仅仅因为说唱被分成了老派、新派、这个、那个，还有别的什么。
I'm not sure if it was the industry's doings on purpose, or was it just the fact that rap was broken into old school, new school, this, that, and the third.
所以就是没有联系。
So it was just no connection.
但事实是，真正的艺术家对那个他们曾经贴在墙上海报上的人怀有敬意。
But the truth of the matter is that the real artists have respect for the person that they had their poster on their wall.
确实如此。
Definitely.
他们买的第一张CD，或者第一盘磁带。
The first CD they bought, or the first tape that they bought.
那种尊重，无论是激励了我作为商人，还是Nas作为艺术家，还是Ben作为商人，不管是什么，永远不会消失。
And that respect that inspired either me as a businessman or Nas as an artist or Ben as a businessman, whatever it is, that'll never ever go away.
就像体育英雄一样，永远不会消失。
Like sports heroes, it never goes away.
所以这个基础，承认和庆祝，然后把这些人聚在一起——
And so the foundation, acknowledging and celebrating, and then bringing this group of people together-
……这是行业早就该做的事情。
... is something that the industry should've done a long time ago.
之前也有过尝试，比如VH1的那个。
And there's been attempts, like the VH1 thing.
对，Hip Hop Honors。
Yeah, the Hip Hop Honors.
Hip Hop Honors。
Hip Hop Honors.
而且这挺好的。
And it's cool.
它确实让这些艺术家受到了关注，但并没有给他们带来实际的经济收益。
It's putting a light on it, on these artists, but it's not putting anything in their pockets.
它并没有投资于艺术家本身。
It's not investing in the artist.
它没有让他们觉得自己所贡献的一切得到了应有的认可。
It's not making them feel like they've gotten acknowledged for everything that they contributed.
那是一个重点，其实有两方面。
That was a point, it was two things.
一方面是创办《Paid in Full》，另一方面是Ben投资了United Masters。
It was starting Paid in Full, but also Ben investing in United Masters.
问题在于，为什么你在文化上贡献了这么多，但经济回报却如此微不足道？
The idea was, how do you contribute so much culturally, but yet the financial take is so meaningless?
为什么你投入了这么多——
How do you pour so much in-
……却得到这么少？
... and get so little out?
一点尊重都没有，我跟你说。
No respect, I'll tell you.
而且大家都习惯了这种想法。
And everybody became comfortable with that idea.
他们就这么接受了，觉得“哦，事情就是这样。”
They just accepted it as, "Oh, that's just the way it is."
事情就是这样。
That's just the way it is.
与此同时，你改变了人们的穿着方式，改变了语言习惯，改变了世界上这么多东西，但你的银行账户或者对你贡献的认可，根本不成比例——这说不过去。
Meanwhile, you're changing the way people are dressing, you're changing dialect, you're changing so much in the world, and yet your bank account or acknowledgement for what you've contributed is not even part-- It doesn't add up.
这让人不振奋，也不会激励创造力。
That's not inspiring, and it doesn't incentivize creativity.
它什么都激励不了。
It doesn't incentivize anything.
这让人觉得自己被抢劫、被偷了。
It incentivizes people to feel like they've been robbed and stolen from.
不是要打断你，但在嘻哈歌词里，我们说的完全是相反的。
And not to cut you off, in the lyrics of hip-hop, we speak about the total opposite.
我们说的是打破障碍。
We speak about breaking down barriers.
我们说的是改变体制。
We speak about changing the system.
我们说的是爱。
We speak about love.
我们说的是当企业家，把这件事掌握在自己手里，保持真实。
We speak about being entrepreneurs and taking this thing into our hands and keeping it real.
但保持真实这件事，在录音室外面并没有发生。
But then the action of keeping it real wasn't happening outside the studio.
你放一张唱片，这个人听起来像是史上最真实的。
You play a record, this dude sounds like he's the realest ever.
然后你见到他，他都不跟你说话。
Then you see him, he won't speak to you.
你看到他，他站在那儿，也不理你。
You see him, he's posted up, and he's not talking to you.
你看到他，你可以说“嘿，我需要帮忙”，他却看着你，笑话你。
You see him, you could be like, "Yo, I need some help," and he's looking at you, he's laughing at you.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I'm saying?
这种竞争到了极致，结果却不像歌词里说的那样。
It's a competitiveness to the max, and it doesn't round up being like what the lyrics said.
你听那些说唱歌词，从一开始，从Caz讲他那些话，激励人心，把他的心血倾注其中，后来更大的组合从Caz那里出来，更大的独唱歌手也出来了，说唱界因为Caz的贡献而改变。
You hear the lyrics of rap, since the beginning, since Caz was talking what he was talking, and inspiring and putting his DNA into this thing, and bigger groups would come from Caz, and bigger soloists, and the rap game would be shifted with what Caz put down.
歌词代表了一回事，但我们怎么能说自己是真实的，说自己是嘻哈，是真实的，然后行动却跟不上呢？
And the lyrics represent one thing, but how are we going to be real and we say we're hip-hop, we're real, and then the actions are not happening?
难道就只留在唱片里吗？
It's just going to be on record?
不能光停留在唱片上。
It can't just be on record.
嘻哈的整个核心，就是要不断成长变得更好。
The whole thing about hip-hop is about to grow to be better.
我觉得我们正通过《Paid in Full》把歌词里的精神活出来。
And I think we are living our lyrics with Paid in Full.
对，确实如此。
Well, yeah.
这需要本和他妻子费利西亚的勇气，以及-
And it takes the courage of Ben and his wife Felicia and-
……还有那个基金会-
... and that foundation-
没错
Definitely
……来拿出资金进行匹配捐赠，才能为这样的项目提供资金支持。
... to put the money up to match the contribution, to be able to fund something like this.
你可能会想，或者你希望，这应该来自一个从中受益的组织——
You would think that, or you would hope that it would come from an organization that benefited-
——从经济上受益的组织。
... financially from it.
对吧，你也会这么想。
You would, right.
唱片公司。
The labels.
一般人都会这么猜。
One would guess.
一般人都会这么猜。
One would guess.
如果你问：“你觉得谁会帮这些人，等等等等？”
If you just to say, "Who do you think will help these guys, da da da da?"
你可能会说：“哦，肯定是唱片公司啊。”
You'd be like, "Oh, definitely the record company."
某某人。
So-and-so.
不是。
No.
这个人。
This person.
不是。
No.
那个人。
That person.
不是，得有个特别的人——我很难把票卖给他们。
No, it takes somebody- It is hard for me to sell them a ticket.
得有个——
It takes-
就是个疯狂的嘻哈迷——
It's a crazy rap fan-
那太疯狂了。
That's crazy
……叫本的——
... named Ben-
一个疯狂的嘻哈迷。
A crazy rap fan
……和费利西亚。
... and Felicia
……他是一位企业家，有着深厚的灵魂、信念和对创造力的尊重，这让他把帮助解决这个问题作为自己的使命之一，确保合适的人得到应有的奖励和尊重。
... who is a entrepreneur who has deep soul and belief and respect for creativity that made this one of his missions to help solve this and make sure the right guys get properly awarded and the respect they deserve.
而且我觉得今年——
And I think this year-
还有本的书。
And Ben's book.
好的。
All right.
……
...
我觉得今年对这个组织来说会是关键的一年。
I think this year is going to be a pivotal year for the organization.
这是我们第四年了，我们有一个很棒的——
This is our fourth year, and we have a great-
四年了
Four years
……很棒的阵容。
... great lineup.
制作得非常精良。
It's very well-produced.
你不会第一年就进来的，你当时没去算你走运。
You don't walk in, first year, you're lucky you wasn't there.
在鲁贝尔中心。
At the Rubell Center.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
我们当时是在摸索着前进。
We were feeling our way through.
有点太长了。
It was a little long.
有点这个、那个、还有别的。
It was a little this, that, and the third.
不过我们学到了经验。
Well, we learned.
就像其他任何事情一样，我们不断学习、改进，变得更紧凑、更聪明，我觉得到了第四年，我们已经准备好了，这将是最大的一年，希望——我相信，这个节目制作得这么好，我们可以把它带到更广的地方去。
Like anything else, we learned, refined, got tighter, got smarter, and I think we got it now in year four, where it's going to be our biggest year, and hopefully- This thing, I believe that as well as produced as this show will be, that it's something that we could take wider.
同时，我希望全世界的人都知道Grandmaster Caz长什么样，庆祝他，为他的成就鼓掌，也庆祝Roxanne、Melly、D.O.C.以及其他所有取得这些成就的人。
At the same time, I feel like I want everybody to know around the world what Grandmaster Caz looks like and to celebrate him and applaud this man for what he's done, and celebrate Roxanne and celebrate Melly and the D.O.C. and everybody else who's had these achievements.
他们为文化做出了这么多贡献，应该有机会在一个他们尊重的平台上看到自己的英雄。
These achievements that they've done and contributed so much to their culture that they get a chance to see their heroes on a platform that they respect.
我觉得当你做了一件大事、重要的事，不仅在嘻哈界，在任何领域，人们都会效仿。
I think when you do something big and important, not only in hip-hop but in anything, people are going to emulate it.
大家都会想跟着做。
People are going to want to follow.
如果他们看到一个行之有效的模式，Ben，你就是最好的证明。
If they see a formula that works, Ben, you're a testament to this.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
看到一个成功的模式，你就想参与进去，想尝试做点什么。
See a formula that works, you want in, and you're going to want to try to do something.
而且很多人，我不知道，丢了面子什么的，因为之前没人做过这些。
And a lot of people lost, I don't know, face or whatever, because all of these, nobody did it yet.
Steve和我经常聊这类事情，但我觉得在生活中，如果你从可能的事情开始，就不可能做出伟大的事。
Steve and I have conversations about this kind of thing all the time, but I think in life it's impossible to do anything great if you start with what's possible.
你必须从正确的事情开始。
You have to start with what's right.
如果你从正确的事情开始，那可能不一定可行，但至少你有机会做出伟大的事。
And if you start with what's right, then it may not be possible, but at least you have a chance to do something great.
所以，我一直都是这么想的。
And so, that's always how I came at it.
我当时就说，'听着，我们应该能搞清楚这件事。'
I was like, "Look, we ought to be able to figure this out."
嘻哈圈没那么大。
Hip-hop's not that big.
创造这种艺术形式的人也不多。
The guys who made the art form are not that many.
那我们为什么不能尊重他们呢？
And so why can't we honor them?
这对我来说完全说不通，而且，顺便说一句，你们刚才很客气，说我不是受益者。
It didn't make any sense to me, and then, by the way, you guys were very kind saying, I wasn't a beneficiary.
其实我是Caz、Nas和Rakim的很大受益者，因为你们是我职业生涯的灵感来源，也是让我度过生意上非常非常艰难时期的动力，那段日子难到我写了一本畅销书来讲述它有多难。
I'm a big beneficiary of Caz and Nas and Rakim in that you all were the inspiration to my career, and one what got me through a very, very difficult times in business, so hard that I wrote a best-selling book about how hard it was.
在书里，我引用了说唱歌词，在硅谷，我因此受到了很多批评，他们觉得，'你搞嘻哈干嘛？'
And in the book, I had the rap lyrics, which in Silicon Valley, I actually got a lot of criticism for it because like, "What are you doing with hip-hop?
这是某种噱头吗？
Is that some kind of gimmick?"
等等，我就说，不，这是应得的荣誉。
And so forth, and I was like, "No, this is credit where credit is due."
我在商业上的想法都来自那些歌词，所以每一章的开头都是歌词，因为想法就是从那里来的。
The ideas that I had in business came from those lyrics, and that's why the chapters, that's why the idea started with the lyric, because that's where the idea started.
这不过是应得的荣誉。
And it was just credit where credit was due.
所以在我看来，这是我做正确的事并回报的机会。
And so it was my chance to, in my mind, just do what was right and pay it back.
你看，我是个企业家。
And look, I'm an entrepreneur.
我知道怎么把事情做起来。
I know how to build things.
所以，建立一个基金会对我来说并不难。
So, building a foundation didn't seem that hard.
不会，如果有人反对或者说得不好听，我根本不理。
No, if I got pushback or people talked about it bad, I don't listen.
我甚至都听不见。
I can't even hear it.
对，他听不见。
No, he doesn't hear it.
而且——
And-
嗯，你会邀请那些可能对这个话题完全不感兴趣的人。
... well, you invite people who would probably have no interest in this topic.
然后你把他们带过去。
And you bring them there.
你知道他们会怎么样吗？
And you know what they do?
我见过他们被说服的。
I've seen it convert.
他们去了之后，就会觉得——
Well, they go there and they're like-
站起来鼓掌
On their feet
……“我要支持本。”
... "I'll go for Ben.
我是说，无所谓啦。
I mean, whatever.
我要支持本。”
I'll go for Ben."
那票数可不少啊
That's a lot of the tickets
就是本嘛。
It's Ben.
然后他们到了那儿，就会觉得——
Then they go there and they're like-
他们站起来
On their feet
……“哦，天哪。”
... "Oh, shit.
我甚至不知道——
I didn't even know-
“……这个，那个。”
"... this, that.
我不知道那个。”
I didn't know that."
这串起了很多线索。
And it connects a lot of dots.
而且显然有很多同理心。
And there's obviously a lot of empathy.
你怎么能不对一个发明了某种东西的人产生同理心呢——
How do you not feel empathy for somebody who's invented something-
……却没有得到应有的回报？
... and didn't get what they deserved?
但今晚的主题不是这个。
But the theme of the night isn't that.
今晚的主题不是“得到你应得的”。
The theme of the night isn't get what you deserve.
那是底层的基本事实。
That's the underlying foundational truth.
而在这个基础上，我们庆祝的是你现在正在得到你应得的。
And on top of that, we celebrate the fact that you are getting now what you deserve.
你正在得到认可，灯光以正确的方式打在你身上，来自一群尊重你的人，而且是你自己选择这么做的。
You are getting the acknowledgement you and the light put on you in the right way by a bunch of people who respect you, and that you had chosen to do it.
我是说，拜托，老兄。
I mean, come on, man.
去年，我认识我的兄弟Grand Puba已经很久了。
Last year, I've known my man Grand Puba for so long.
看到Puba在上面——
To see Puba up there-
……那让我感到非常自豪。
... that made me feel so proud.
你会跳过那个。
You'll skip that.
跳过它很容易。
It's easy to skip it.
就像，“哦，不，不是那个。”
It's just like, "Oh, no, not that."
而且你有Grand Puba。
And you got Grand Puba.
曾经有一段时间，他是最伟大的说唱歌手。
At one point, the greatest rapper.
哦，顺便说一句，他跨越了三种不同的……
Oh, by the way, did it over three different...
说唱这事儿挺有意思的。
It's funny about rap.
我不知道是不是时代——
I don't know if eras-
不像十年一个年代，但一个时代可能就四年。
It's not like decades, but eras could be four years.
可能就四年，然后就完全变了。
It could be a four-year where it just changed.
如果你不在其中，你根本意识不到它变得有多快。
And if you're not part of it, you don't even realize how fast it changes.
所以——
So-
Masters of Ceremony，Brand Nubian。
Masters of Ceremony, Brand Nubian.
Puba。
Puba.
个人事业。
Solo career.
对，个人事业。
Yeah, solo career.
三个时代。
Three eras.
他经历了三个时代——
He went through three eras-
太疯狂了。
Crazy
……然后挺过来了，走到了另一边。
... and got through that and got to the other side.
很少有艺人能做到这一点。
Very few artists had done that.
而且那段时间的变化非常剧烈。
And those changes during that period of time were drastic.
我们很多喜欢的艺人都没能跨过那道坎，结果就被困在了另一边。
A lot of our favorite artists couldn't jump that fence and they got stuck on the other side.
然后突然之间，你就被当成老派了，或者被认为过气了，或者不再酷了，反正就是各种说法。
And then you all of a sudden, you're considered old school or you're considered washed or considered not dope anymore, whatever the thing was.
但Grand Puba做到了。
And Grand Puba did that.
没有人会坐在那儿，然后转身去看这个人上台，给他应有的尊重。
No one's going to sit and then turn around and watch this man go on stage and get his props.
没有其他人会这么做，也没有其他人会花时间去让那些懂这种微妙之处的人明白。
No one else is going to do that, and no one else is going to put the time in to have the people that understand that nuance.
开张支票很容易。
It's easy to write a check.
有人会给某些事情开支票，然后——
You have people write checks to things and-
……他们就把那个框勾上了。
... they check that box.
这就是爱。
It's the love.
支票已经开出去了，而且我们花了很多时间确保一切做到位。
The check is being written and there's so much time going into making sure we get it right.
因为爱，而且房间里充满了爱。
Because of the love And in the room, there's love.
即使你没想到会走进那样的房间，你以为会是那种典型的颁奖典礼之类的。
Even if you didn't think you'd be walking in a room like that, you think it's going to be some type of typical award show or something like that.
那是真诚的爱。
It's genuine love.
没有自我。
It's no egos.
没有人会在别人面前摆架子。
Nobody's putting their chest out in front of nobody.
不管那边是亿万富翁，这边也是，那张桌子也是，这张桌子也是，都没关系。
Doesn't matter if it's billionaires over there and over here, and at that table and that table.
每个人在这里都是为了真正了解舞台上发生的事情。
Everybody's here on a real thing of learning what's happening on the stage.
你是在接受教育。
You're being educated.
然后我们谈到我们的朋友昆西·琼斯，在他去世前，我和本跟他一起度过了很多时间，还有QD3也在场，我们通过这个看到了昆西·琼斯奖的颁发，因为如果昆西还在，他一定会参与其中。
And then we're talking about our man Quincy Jones, who I spent a lot of time with, with Ben, before he passed, and then QD3 being there, and we're getting to see a Quincy Jones award happen through this because Quincy, had he been here, he would've been a part of this.
他一定会参与的。
He would've been.
哦，那是肯定的。
Oh, for sure.
而且——
And-
百分之百。
100%
……我们去年看到乔治·克林顿来了，他带来了母舰。
... we get this, last year, George Clinton went, he brought the mothership.
他为我们表演了母舰的节目，看到他背诵拉基姆的《跟随领袖》歌词，真是令人震撼。
He did a mothership thing for us, and it was just mind-blowing to see him reciting Rakim's lyrics to "Follow the Leader."
这可是乔治·克林顿。
This is George Clinton.
他可是来自外太空的人物。
He is the outer space guy.
他是改变了音乐的人，而他在83岁高龄时还能背诵——
He is the guy who shifted music, and then him reciting at 83 years old-
哇
Whoa
——拉基姆的歌词在台上。
... Rakim's lyrics on stage.
这个房间里的爱是另一个层次的。
This is a room of love on another level.
好吧，让我来说说昆西·琼斯奖，昆西·琼斯，显然是个传奇。
Well, let me, to the Quincy Jones Award, Quincy Jones, obvious legend.
传奇中的传奇，真正的元老级人物，那个——
The legend of legends, the triple OG, the-
……
...
一切的基石。
the foundation of it all.
不是不尊重，但格莱美把他的——搞砸了。
No disrespect, but the Grammys botched his-
确实搞砸了。
Botched it
……把他的庆祝仪式搞砸了。
... botched his celebration.
设立昆西·琼斯奖，就是因为格莱美做得太糟糕了。
The idea for the Quincy Jones Award was literally because of how bad- ... the Grammys did it.
我们并不是觉得必须得走这个流程。
It wasn't like we thought we had to check that box.
我们真不敢相信他们搞错了。
We couldn't believe they got that wrong.
他们没有好好向这位大师致敬，以至于他儿子QD3都说："咱们干脆自己办吧。"
They didn't pay tribute to this man properly, to the point that his son was like, QD3 was like, "Let's do this."
现在这已经成了-
And now it's part of-
...我们基金会每年例行要做的事。
... what we do in the foundation on an annual basis.
这就是爱。
That's love.
我们可以公布一下本届昆西·琼斯奖的获得者是谁吗？
Can we say who the new recipient of the Quincy Jones Award is?
这就像……
It's like-
得让史蒂夫来说——
We got to let Steve say it-
不，不行
No, no
因为他为此付出了巨大的努力。
... because he worked so hard on it.
真的不行。
No, no.
这故事太逗了。
Such a funny story.
我们就不细说这个故事了，但是——
We're not going to get into the details of that story, but-
但是谁？
But who?
尼尔·罗杰斯啊。
Nile Rodgers, man.
对。
Yes.
你怎么会不知道Nile Rodgers呢？
How do you not Nile Rodgers?
对。
Yes.
对。
Yes.
这太棒了。
This is great.
Nile Rodgers，他——
Nile Rodgers, who-
对。
Yes
……他创作了一段吉他旋律——
... came up with a guitar lick-
噔，噔，噔，噔，噔
Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun
……被用在了很多地方。
... that's been used.
被用在了很多地方。
That's been used.
《Good Times》。
Good Times.
顺便说一句，我是说，嘻哈、舞蹈。
By the way, I mean, hip-hop, dance.
吧，当，当，当，当，当，吧，当。
Ba, dum, bum, bum, bum, bum, ba, dum.
这就是他和嘻哈的渊源。
That's his hip-hop connection.
这就是他和嘻哈的渊源。
That's his hip-hop connection.
看看Chic乐队。
Look at Chic.
看看所有这些——
Look at all the-
哦，天哪
Oh, God
……Sister Sledge。
... Sister Sledge.
你看，我是说——
Look, I mean-
来吧
Come on
……往下数一数那无数的——
... go down the myriad-
或者所有的一切
Or everything
……他制作的嘻哈歌曲。
... of hip hop songs he's produced.
一直到《Get Lucky》那首歌。
All the way up to "Get Lucky."
为Daft-
For Daft-
……
...
我是说，为Daft Punk。
I mean, for Daft Punk.
他就是——
He's-
……那个人。
... that guy.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I'm saying?
所以，就这样。
So, boom.
所以今年我们请到了 Nile Rodgers，让他来领取 Quincy Jones 奖。
So we got Nile Rodgers this year, getting the Quincy Jones Award.
所以我们现在做的，显然就是在我们的职责范围内，无论是老派嘻哈还是像 Quincy Jones 这样本该在格莱美上得到更隆重表彰的音乐人，我们都在努力做出贡献，确保把这件事做对。
So, what we're doing is obviously, we're making sure within our purview, whether it's old school hip-hop or Quincy Jones, who should've gotten celebrated a little bit more properly with his Grammys, that we're making a contribution to make sure we get it right.
我们要对自己严格要求，确保做到位。
We're holding ourselves accountable to get it right.
这显然是一件大事，因为涉及到家属、遗产管理方以及其他艺术家，他们都会带着审视的目光看着这一切，心里可能在想：‘这是真的吗？’
This is obviously a big thing to do because you got families, estates, other artists looking at this, through a side eye like, "Is this real?"
"这情况会很快过去吗？"
"Is this going away anytime soon?"
"这又是另一层伪装吗？"
"Is this another facade?
"他们到底想借这个卖什么？"
What are they selling on the back of this?
"我看他们肯定在后备箱里卖T恤呢。"
They must be selling T-shirts out the trunk."
嘿，我打电话给Fat Boys的Kool Rock Ski，跟他说，'嘿，兄弟，我们想让你加入这个。'
Yo, I called Kool Rock Ski from the Fat Boys, and like, "Yo, man, we want you in this."
我觉得他一开始还以为这不是真的。
And I think for a second, he didn't think it was real.
对，我听说过。
Yeah, I heard.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I'm saying?
我跟你说实话，他去年就在场。
I ain't going to lie to you, he was there last year.
他和Wood都觉得这不是真的。
Him and Wood didn't think it was real.
他走下舞台的时候还觉得这不是真的。
He walked off the stage not thinking it was real.
Kool G Rap说了什么？
What did Kool G Rap say?
就等着艾什顿·库彻跳出来呢。
Waiting for Ashton Kutcher to jump out.
Kool G Rap，你当时什么感觉？你被整蛊了。
Kool G Rap, what did you- You've been punked.
G Rap 非常感激。
G Rap was very appreciative.
G Rap，我给他打了电话，他非常感激。
G Rap, I called him, he was very appreciative.
我的意思是，他可是史上最伟大的MC之一啊。
I mean, one of the greatest MCs of all time, man.
也是我最大的灵感来源之一。
One of my biggest inspirations.
而且当人们来的时候，再说一次，那是爱，兄弟。
And when people come, again, it's love, man.
那是真正的爱。
It's real love.
这是你的时刻。
It's your time.
这是你的节目。
It's your show.
我们在这里支持你。
We're here for you.
我觉得对他们来说，感觉这不算什么，就像你说的，我们不是在后面卖T恤。
And I think it's surprising for them to feel like it's nothing, like you said, we're not selling shirts out in the back.
这不是为了我们自己。
This is not for us.
做这件事让我们很开心，但看到这些人出现、被欣赏，并给予他们爱，真的很美好。
It gives us joy that we're doing this, but it's beautiful to see these people show up, and be appreciated, and show them the love.
所以Nas说了，你刚才提到了关于自我（ego）的事。
And so Nas talked, you just talked about the ego thing.
当然是这样。
Of course it is.
我是说，首先，最后你在麦克风前开始疯狂起来，对吧？
I mean, first of all, at the end, you start going crazy on the mic, right?
我是说，你和莫迪去年。
I mean, you and Modie last year.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
你们在麦克风前都疯了。
Y'all go crazy on the mic.
所以那还在。
So that's still there.
说清楚点。
Let's be clear.
这是一场庆祝——
It's a celebration-
公园派对
Park jam
……但那一块儿——
... but that part-
就像那个公园聚会一样。
It's like the park jam
……那个公园聚会的环节是不会少的。
... the park jam part isn't going anywhere.
经典元素。
Element.
但因为说唱圈里自我意识太强了，至少在这个当下、这个房间里，情况就演变成了两年前艾斯·库伯出现时的那种局面。
But because there's so much ego in rap, at least in this moment, in this room, it comes down to the point where Ice Cube came two years ago.
他说："我甚至不会发行专辑，直到我听完斯卡法斯想说的话。"
And he says, "I wouldn't even put out an album until I listened to what Scarface had to say."
"我当时就知道……"
"I knew..."
你还记得他当时是这么说的吗？
You remember when he said this?
没错，太对了。
Hell yeah.
他说：“在我发布任何作品之前，我得先搞清楚这家伙在说什么。”
He's like, "I knew before I dropped anything, I'd have to make sure what this guy was saying."
你绝不会听到——
You would never hear-
而且Scarface是在Cube之后出来的。
And Scarface came after Cube.
Scarface是在Cube之后出来的。
Scarface came after Cube.
但Cube——
But Cube-
但Scarface出来的时候——
But when Scarface came-
哇。
Woo.
看着Scarface和Rakim互相欣赏对方的写作技巧。
To watch Scarface and Rakim acknowledge each other's writing skills.
哦——
Oh-
嘿，哥们，这怎么回事？
Yo, dude, that's like, what's happening?
如果你喜欢嘻哈——
If you love hip-hop-
这里发生了什么？
What's happening here?
顺便说一句，如果你喜欢嘻哈，如果你在看这个视频并且喜欢嘻哈，你得知道，能让Rakim和Scarface——
By the way, if you love hip-hop, if you're watching this and love hip-hop, you got to know, to have Rakim and Scarface-
真的
For real
……坐下来聊聊写作，以及他们彼此之间的尊重——
... have a conversation about writing and respect that they have for each other-
真正纯粹的地方在于，你是在谈论任何领域中最伟大的两位作家。
... in a real pure way is, you're talking about two of the greatest writers in anything.
我才不管是什么东西呢。
I don't give a fuck what it is.
对，任何领域。
Yes, anything.
在任何方面。
In anything.
进行一场真正的讨论，关于-
Having a real discussion about-
而且从我们之前到现在，全世界所有的嘻哈歌手都会认可你说的话。
And every hip-hop guy in the world before us since would acknowledge what you said.
根本没人会-
Nobody would even-
有史以来最伟大的几位创作者-
Some of the greatest writers of all-
在嘻哈界，就是Scarface和Rakim。
... in hip-hop, Scarface and Rakim.
这根本不用问。
Not even a question.
没什么好讨论的。
Nothing to discuss.
没什么好讨论的。
Nothing to discuss.
而他们第一次讨论这个话题，就是在Paid in Full。
And they're discussing it for the first time at Paid in Full.
这房间有多特别，可见一斑。
That's how special this room is.
好，让我来打个广告。
Okay, let me give the plug.
paidinfullfoundation.org。
paidinfullfoundation.org.
你可以来参与其中。
You can come and be a part of it.
我和Felicia会以2.5比1的比例匹配每一笔捐款，也就是说你捐的钱全部都会给到艺术家。
And Felicia and I match every donation, two and a half to one, which means that all your money goes to the artist.
基金会没有拿薪水的员工。
There are no paid employees at the foundation.
所有工作都是志愿者在做。
Everything is volunteer.
所以，如果你想参与，想贡献一份力量，就访问paidinfullfoundation.org。
And so, if you want to be part of it, if you want to contribute, paidinfullfoundation.org.
这就是我的广告时间。
And that's my plug.
我想问Caz——
And I want to ask Caz-
说得挺好的。
That was pretty good.
这就像老式电台那种感觉。
That's like a radio old school thing.
谢谢。
Thank you.
Caz，我们一直在聊这件事，但作为受助者，从荣誉角度和财务角度来看，这对你意味着什么？
Caz, we've been talking about it, but being a recipient, what has it meant to you from an honor standpoint, from a financial standpoint?
它对你有什么影响？
How did it affect you?
从你那边跟我们说说。
Tell us from that side.
对，我确实打算在某个时候说这个，因为这不是具体细节。
Yeah, I definitely was going to address that at some point, because it's not specifics.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
就像，嘿，这个那个，这个人得到那个，那个人得到那个。
Like yo, this and that, this one gets that, this one gets that.
就像你拿到一笔资助，你明白我的意思吗？
It's like you get a grant, you know what I mean?
可以说，这笔资助是五年期的，它真的改变了我的生活。
So to speak, and it's over a five-year period, and it's helped change my life.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
我当时正走在自我提升的路上，努力争取一些东西。几年前LL Cool J打电话给我，说：“嘿，是时候了。”
I was on a path for self-improvement and trying to get things that LL Cool J called me a few years back and was like, "Yo, it's time.
我想让你上电台。
I want you on the radio."
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
但当Paid in Full打电话给我的时候，你明白我的意思，就像在说：“嘿，现在这真的要改变你的人生了。”
But when Paid in Full called me, you know what I mean, it was like, "Yo, now this is going to change your life."
我买了房子。
I bought a house.
哇。
Wow.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
我搬出了贫民区。
I moved out the projects.
那太棒了。
That's awesome.
你明白我在说什么吧？
You know what I'm saying?
我这辈子都住在布朗克斯。
And I've lived in the Bronx all my life.
我就在加州待过三年，但其他时间都住在布朗克斯。
I only did a three-year stint in Cali for a while, but I lived in the Bronx all my life.
西印度群岛来的，是吧？
West Indian, huh?
我没想到我会走到今天这一步。
And I thought I would end up here.
过去这十到十五年，我心里一直有个念头，我不想死在那种地方。
And the last thoughts in my head for the last 10, 15 years, I don't want to die in the projects.
我不想在这里结束。
I don't want to end here.
我不想在这里画上句号。
I don't want it to end here.
结果没有。
And it didn't.
现在也没有。
And it's not.
太了不起了。
So amazing.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
我在宾夕法尼亚有栋不错的房子，你懂我意思吧，我和我老婆，我的生活改善了很多。
I got a nice house in Pennsylvania, you know what I'm saying, me and my wife, and my life has improved drastically.
我有了舒适的生活，有了以前从来没有过的保障。
I got a comfort, I got a cushion- ... that I never had.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
以前每天都是过一天算一天，每天都是拼命干活、奔波、打拼。
Everything was day to day, everything was run out, grind, hustle.
当人们看到我，看到我的热情，看到我的……
And when people see me, and they see my passion, they see my...
你懂我意思吧？
You know what I mean?
这家伙还是那么有干劲。
This nigga still got it.
他还在继续做，因为我必须这么做。
He's still doing it because I have to.
我以前什么都没有。
I didn't have no...
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
说唱这行可没有社会保障。
Hip-hop don't have social security.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
说唱这行也没有医疗保险什么的。
Hip-hop don't have no health benefits or none of that.
你必须得干活。
You have to work.
你得一直在外面打拼。
You got to stay out there.
对我来说，反正我得继续干下去。
For me anyway, I got to keep working.
所以当你看到我做电台节目，看到我办公园派对，看到我搞嘻哈观光团，这些全都是为了维持生计，让我能继续干下去。
So when you see me doing radio, you see me doing park jams, you see me doing hip-hop sightseeing tours and all, all that was to maintain, to keep me up and at it.
而且我觉得我那种态度，配合着这些事——
And I think my attitude that went along with it-
……以及我待人接物的方式，让大家一直记得我。
... and the way that I deal with people kept me in people's consciousness.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
对此我真的感激得要命。
Which I'm so fucking grateful for.
你明白吗？
You know what I mean?
就像我说的，我不能代表所有人，但我敢肯定，它对我起的作用，对每个人也都一样。
And like I said, I can't speak for everybody, but I'm sure what it's done for me, it's done for everybody.
你懂我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
我想说一件事，但我不想点名是谁，我们刚才在聊有些人不知道这是不是骗局什么的。
I know one thing I want to say, and I don't want to say which person, but we was talking about some people didn't know if it was a scam or whatever.
有几个人觉得像是，‘哟，我不需要这个。’
A couple people thought it was like, "Yo, I don't need this.
‘我挺好的。’
I'm good."
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
像是施舍，像是我不需要别人给我……不，不是那样的。
Like a handout, like I don't need nobody to give me... Nah, it's not about that.
不全是那样。
It's not all about that.
那跟那个没关系。
That ain't about that.
那只是其中的一部分。
That's a part of it.
你明白我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
关键在于这份荣誉感。
The thing is the honor.
关键是让你站在你本该站的位置上，接受应有的关注。
The thing is putting you in the light that you deserve to be in.
我也得向 LL Cool J 致敬，他在这方面做得很好。
And I got to salute LL Cool J for that, too.
你明白我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
他本来没必要这么做，但还是把我和Sha Rock推上了电台。
He put us, me, he put Sha Rock on the radio when he didn't have to.
他本可以不这么做的，但他硬是开辟了一条全新的路。
He didn't have to, and he created a whole lane.
他的意思是：‘这下轮到你们了。’
He's like, "Now that's y'all.
继续。
Go.
周一到周五，你们都在电台播出。
Monday through Friday, y'all are on the air."
你明白我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
所以这种认可，真的让人很有共鸣。
So that kind of recognition, it resonates.
当大家看到重要人物给你应有的认可时，他们也会觉得有义务去支持你。
And when people see important people giving you your props, they feel obligated like
说真的，你刚才那段总结得太好了，它带来了关注，而且这种好处是源源不断的。
Yo, I got to say, what this does is, how you just ended it, is it brings recognition, and that's the gift that keeps giving.
确实如此。
Indeed.
因为这是出于爱，也在某种程度上激励更多人相信，我们也能做到这样的事。
Because it's done out of love, and it kind of inspires more people to think that we can do things like this, too.
我们得记住，要互相照顾。
We got to remember, let's take care of each other.
我想说，有一段时间，大概九十年代末开始，有不少嘻哈艺人联系我，我会帮不同的艺人做些事情，但我不说，我连名字都不提，甚至包括最近去世的一位。
I'll say this, I was getting reached out to by a few hip-hop artists for a while, probably the later end of the '90s on, and I would do things for different artists and won't say it, I won't even mention the names, even up to someone who passed away recently.
……一个音乐嘻哈制作人什么的。
... a musical hip-hop producer and whatever.
我当时在场，我在想我们还有多少人也在做这种事，但都是低调进行的。
I was there, and I wonder how many more of us were doing that, but it's on the low.
这是高调的。
This is on the high.
这是更高层次的公开。
This is on the high on an even bigger level.
你可以展示出来。
You can show it.
你可以向全世界展示。
You can show the world.
我们都在照顾自己人。
We're taking care of our own.
我们也在回馈那些曾经照顾过我们的人。
We're taking care of the thing that took care of us.
在本的书中，他收录了一些歌词片段。
In Ben's book, he has pieces of lyrics.
在他的一本书里，他列出了那些曾启发他的歌词片段。
In one of his books, he has pieces of lyrics that inspired him.
这些事情很重要，因为如果我们忘了，如果把它们都掩盖过去，如果你不知道Puba把Hilfiger提升到了一个新的高度，如果你不知道——
These things are important because if we forget, if we sweep it all under the rug, if you don't know that Puba took Hilfiger to another level, if you don't know-
Sprite（雪碧）
Sprite
……Sprite。
... Sprite.
Sprite。
Sprite.
这么说吧——
Say this-
别这样，兄弟。
Come on, man.
别这样。
Come on
……整个时尚界，就这样。
... the fashion industry, period.
顺便说一句，这正是我写《美国的棕化》的原因。
By the way, that's exactly why I wrote "The Tanning of America."
我写这本书，就是为了让嘻哈创造的所有东西都被认可。
It was specifically so that all of the things that hip-hop created got acknowledged.
在你的书里，你提到那场演唱会，Run-DMC的演唱会——
In your book, when you talk about at the concert, at the Run-DMC concert-
在Run……
At the Run...
我向大家展示阿迪达斯
I go from showing everybody Adidas
当所有人都举起他们的阿迪达斯时，这对阿迪达斯产生了怎样的影响。
... when everybody holds up their Adidas, what that did for Adidas.
当他……的时候，这对阿迪达斯产生了怎样的影响
What it did for Adidas when he
当时阿迪达斯其实已经有点没落了。
Adidas was kind of dead at the time.
等一下。
Hold on.
死了。
Dead.
对，没错。
Oh, yeah.
在美国只占百分之二的市场份额。
2% market share in America.
2%。
2%.
在美国市场份额只有2%，而这2%里有四分之三来自东北地区，他们只知道，为什么那边的人都买这一款特定的鞋，还都把鞋带扔掉？
2% market share in America, and three-quarters of that 2% was coming from the Northeast region, and all they knew was that, why is everybody up there buying this one specific SKU, and why are they throwing away the shoelace?
嘻哈。
Hip-hop.
嘻哈，宝贝。
Hip-hop, baby.
但Puba，“服从你的渴望”是他的台词。
But Puba, "Obey your thirst" is his line.
首先，服从你的渴望。
First things first, obey your thirst.
那是他的台词。
That's his line.
那是他们的口号。
That's their tagline.
没人会注意到这些东西。
No one would ever pay attention to these things.
这些人不仅仅是嘻哈的先驱，更是超越嘻哈的存在。
These guys are pioneers above and beyond hip-hop.
他们创造了围绕音乐的文化，这种文化一直延续到今天。
They created the culture around the music that lives on to this day.
时尚、语言、品牌，这些只因他们的贡献而存在。
The fashion, the language, the brands that only exist as a result of their contribution.
我喜欢汤米·希尔费格。
I love Tommy Hilfiger.
汤米·希尔费格是个很棒的人。
Tommy Hilfiger's a great guy.
他和很多艺人合作过。
He's done a lot with artists.
他应该为《Paid in Full》出一份力。
He should be part of contributing to Paid in Full.
如果不是因为——
If it wasn't for-
……嘻哈，那肯定，他就彻底完了。
... hip-hop, for sure, he was dead in the water.
他们当时在卖领带。
They were selling ties.
他自己也这么说。
He says that.
他当时确实在卖领带。
He was selling ties.
他想成为拉夫·劳伦那样的人，但大家都说：“哥们，你不是拉夫·劳伦。”
He was trying to be Ralph Lauren, and they were like, "You're not Ralph Lauren, dog."
而且，你听我说，在他回家的路上……因为他住在格林威治，你离开市区的时候，显然可以走传统路线，上高速到格林威治，或者你也可以穿过哈莱姆区，然后到韦斯特切斯特。
And listen, on his way home- ... because he lived in Greenwich, when you leave the city, obviously, you can get to Greenwich by the traditional way, taking the highway, or you can cut through Harlem and get up to Westchester.
所以他开车穿过哈莱姆区，看到所有人都把裤子穿得很低，露出卡尔文·克莱因内裤的边。
So he's cutting through Harlem, and he's seen everybody wearing their pants low and their top of their Calvin Klein brief showing.
真的，他就是从那儿想到做内裤，然后跟Calvin合作，把那个——
And literally, that's where he got the idea to make underwear and use that, whatever with Calvin, the-
Tommy
Tommy
……那个边，对。
... top, yeah.
他把Tommy放在那儿。
He put Tommy there.
不管了，内裤的那个边，管它叫什么呢。
Whatever, the top of the underwear, whatever this shit is called.
对，就是腰上的松紧带。
Yeah, the waistband elastic.
松紧带。
The elastic.
对，就是那条松紧带。
Yeah, the elastic band.
然后他把Tommy Hilfiger印在那上面，还把腰带加宽加厚，这样你就能——
And he put Tommy Hilfiger there and made the waistband bigger, thicker, so that you could-
这样你就能——
So you can-
……清楚地看到它。
... really see it.
然后整个事情就这么开始了，真的。
And that's how the whole thing got going, seriously.
就是这样，他是在开车经过哈莱姆区时看到的。
That's literally it, and he'd seen it driving through Harlem.
太疯狂了。
That's crazy.
然后品牌就起飞了，从卖不出去的领带变成了卖街头服饰，成了全世界最火的时尚潮流。
And that's when the brand took off and went from selling ties that wasn't working to now selling streetwear, the hottest fashion trend in the world.
就是路易威登卖的那种街头服饰，由Skateboard P设计的。你懂我的意思吗？
Streetwear that Louis Vuitton sells, designed by Skateboard P. You know what I'm saying?
老天保佑。
God bless.
还有维吉尔。
And Virgil.
这些就是这些家伙参与贡献的事情——
And these are the things that these guys have been a part of contributing-
……
...
但他们从未得到应有的回报。
that they never got their fair share of.
顺便说一句，我们现在做的只是想造势。
And by the way, what we're doing is we're just trying to get momentum.
我们不是要解决——
We're not trying to solve-
……全世界的难题。
... the world's problem here.
我们需要其他人来捐款，
We need others to either come and donate-
肯定是捐给这个组织。
... to the organization for sure.
或者成立其他有同样动机的组织，去表彰那些帮助推动你业务、成就你的人，并回馈他们——
Or start other organizations that also have the same motive to help celebrate, give back to the guys who have helped contribute to your business, contribute to you-
说点实在的
On some real shit
……是为了激励你。
... to inspire you.
别搞那些虚头巴脑的东西。
None of the fake shit.
要真诚，带着爱与尊重。
On some real, with love and respect.
对。
Yes.
带着爱和尊重。
With love and respect.
是的，先生。
Yes, sir.
说到这个，我想讲个故事，因为爱和尊重远不止颁奖典礼上那些事。
And actually, on that, I want to tell a story because the love and respect part goes beyond even the awards.
Scarface 有心脏病。
So Scarface had a heart condition.
你知道，他来自一个人们连医生都不怎么去看的地方，更别说去做他需要的开胸手术了。
And look, he comes from a place where people don't even really go to the doctor, let alone go in for open heart surgery, which is what he needed.
他当时在跟我妻子 Felicia 通电话，她知道他很害怕。
And he was on the phone with my wife, Felicia, and she knew he was scared.
她特意飞到休斯顿去看他，在他去看医生之前，他不想去。
And she flew out to Houston to see him before he went to the doctor, and he didn't want to go in.
他说：“不，我不想去看医生。
And he's like, "No, I don't want to go to the doctor.
我不去看医生。
I'm not going to the doctor."
她说："不行。"
And she said, "Nah."
他管她叫恶霸。
And he calls her the bully.
她大概五英尺高，体重可能一百零五磅。
She's about five feet tall, weighs maybe a buck oh five.
她说："不行，我现在就带你去医院。"
And she says, "No, I'm taking you to the doctor right now."
就在他们刚到医院的时候，他的主动脉破裂了。
And right as they got into the doctor, his aorta burst.
他们及时把他送进去，救了他的命，如果没有她那么关心他，这一切都不会发生。
And they got him in just in time and saved his life, and that doesn't happen without her caring so much about him.
这个基金会很大程度上，因为她经营着它，她是主席，就是她对这些艺术家有多关心，以及她多么致力于照顾他们，不管怎样。
And a lot of what the foundation is about, because she runs it, she's the president, is how much She cares about these artists and how much she's committed to taking care of them regardless.
别管什么奖项，也别管合同上写的是什么，那些都不重要。
Forget the award, forget what the actual contract is, and all that kind of thing.
她一定会去做那些工作，这也就塑造了整个活动的文化氛围，所以那种感觉——
She's going to do that work, and that creates the whole culture of the thing, which is why that feeling-
……在颁奖典礼上才会那么不一样。
... at the award is so different.
同意。
Agreed.
我得说——
I have to say that-
没有比这更重要的了。
Nothing more serious than that
……而且我真的得给费利西亚点赞。
... and I have to definitely kudos to Felicia.
没有比这更重要的了。
Nothing more serious than that.
她让这件事-
She makes it-
这才是真的
That's real
...感觉里带着爱。
... like it's love involved here.
这已经超越了奖项和奖金本身。
And it's beyond the award, beyond the check.
你明白我的意思吧？
You know what I mean?
事情还没完呢。
It's not over.
你会接到电话的。
You'll get a call.
最近怎么样？
"How are you doing?
你妻子怎么样了？"
How's your wife?"
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
"哦，她生病了？
"Oh, she's sick?
把你地址给我就行了。"
Just give me your address."
她第二天就送花过来。
She send, the next day, flowers come.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
第二天，迪奥眼镜就寄到了。
The next day, some Dior glasses come in the mail.
菲莉西亚就是这样的人，跟发生什么事没关系。
That's how Felicia is, and it's not about what's going on.
她会突然打电话给你，就为了关心你，看看你过得好不好，这就是这个和我在奖项、资助、创办等任何事情上经历过的区别。
She'll randomly call you just to check on you to see if everything's good, and that's the difference between this and anything I've ever experienced in an award, grant, founding, or anything like that.
那种爱，发自内心的爱。
The love, the genuine love.
我不知道。
I don't know.
我真的不知道怎么形容即将到来的活动，下一届嘻哈宗师奖。
I just can't speak enough about the event that's coming up, the next Hip Hop Grandmaster Awards.
那将是历史性的，如果你还没关注Paid in Full的最新动态，今年一定要关注，然后回顾我们过去四年所做的一切。
It's going to be monumental, and if you haven't been abreast of what's going on with Paid in Full, definitely check in, okay this year, and then look back at what we've done in the past four years.
好吗？
All right?
然后加入我们。
And then get on board.
别不当回事。
Don't play with it.
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