本集简介
双语字幕
仅展示文本字幕，不包含中文音频；想边听边看，请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
你愿意重新设计学校的日常安排，让孩子们比喜欢放假还更喜欢上学吗？
Are you willing to redesign your school day so kids love it more than vacation?
有了认知科学和学习科学的进展，再加上大语言模型的出现，你可以构建一个学习引擎，让孩子的学习效率提高十倍。
With cognitive science and learning science, plus the advent of LLMs, you can build a learning engine that teaches kids 10 times faster.
我觉得你能够实现的一个转变，就是让这一切变得可信。
The shift that I think you've been able to make is the believability of it.
很快，人们就会问：“我们为什么要用别的方式来做呢？”
Pretty soon, people are going to ask, "Why would we ever do it any other way?"
我希望下一代是那种对AI充满乐观、有能力的人，他们会说：“我们要建设一个美好的未来。”
I want this next generation to be the ones who are optimistically capable with AI and saying, "We're going to build an awesome future."
这正是我们作为教育工作者的职责，去建设那样的世界。
That's what our job as educators are, is to go build that world.
对于那位说“我要把孩子送进常春藤名校”的家长，你会怎么说？
What would you say to the parent who's saying, "I'm sending my kid to Ivy League school.
我知道这并不完美，但这是一种新的制度。
I know it's not perfect, but this is a new institution.
我为什么要冒险呢？
Why should I take a risk?"
所以——
So-
如果AI能让学生以更快的速度学习传统课程，那他们剩下的教育时间应该用来做什么呢？
If AI can help students learn the traditional curriculum dramatically faster, what should they do with the rest of their education?
本期节目，我邀请到了Alpha学校的创始人Joe Liemandt，以及Horowitz和Andreessen学院的联合创始人Gagan Biyani，一起聊聊AI时代学校应该是什么样子。
In this episode, I sit down with Alpha School founder Joe Liemandt and Horowitz and Andreessen Academy co-founder Gagan Biyani to talk about what school should look like in the AI era.
Joe多年来一直致力于打造Alpha，其模式与传统截然不同。
Joe has spent years building Alpha around a radically different model.
学生每天大约花两个小时在核心课程上，其余时间则通过真实世界项目来培养团队合作、创业精神、沟通能力和领导力等技能。
Students spend roughly two hours a day on core academics, then use the rest of their time developing skills like teamwork, entrepreneurship, communication, and leadership through real-world projects.
我们讨论了Alpha在K到12教育中学到了什么，以及这些经验在HAA的大学年龄段学生中应用时会有哪些变化。
We talk about what Alpha has learned from K through 12 education and how those lessons change when applied to college-age students at HAA.
这包括为什么动力如此重要，为什么学生应该与前沿领域的人合作，以及为什么学习越来越多地是为了解决实际问题，而不是仅仅为了通过考试。
That includes why motivation matters so much, why students should be building alongside people operating at the frontier, and why learning can increasingly happen in service of solving a real-world problem rather than simply passing a test.
最后，我们要为如何让年轻人为AI时代做好准备提出一种不同的思路，不是试图预测哪些职业会存活下来，而是赋予他们自主能力、人际关系和工具，去帮助建设未来。
And ultimately, we make the case for a different way of preparing young people for AI, not by trying to predict which careers will survive, but by giving them the agency, relationships, and tools to help build what comes next.
乔，欢迎来到播客。
Joe, welcome to the podcast.
非常感谢。
Thank you very much.
今年我们有幸一起度过了一些时间，参观了学校。你用Alpha打造的一切实在太了不起了，也给了我们HAA很多启发。
So we've had the luxury of spending some time together this year and touring the schools, and what you've built with Alpha is just incredible, and it's inspired us at HAA.
我们非常感谢你的参与。
We're grateful to have your involvement.
对于那些不太了解的人，你能简单介绍一下你认为Alpha带来的核心创新，或者你真正为这个领域带来了什么吗？
And for people who are unfamiliar, why don't you just briefly describe what you think of as the central innovations or what you've really brung to the space with Alpha?
当然可以。
Sure.
我们正在重新定义K12学校的样子。
So we're reinventing how K12 school is.
就是上学那段时间，对吧？
The school day, right?
孩子们在教室里或者学校里待的那六个七个小时，他们到底在干什么？
How kids spend their six or seven hours that they're in class or in a school building, what is that like?
首先你得理解并且认同一点，就是教学设计和方法一百年来都没变过，对吧？
And sort of the first part that you have to understand and buy into is that instructional design and delivery hasn't changed for 100 years, right?
就是一个老师站在教室前面讲课，那到底怎么做才是对的？
You throw a teacher in front of the classroom, and what's the right way to do this?
现在你看过去这几十年，认知科学和学习科学的发展，再加上大语言模型的出现，你就可以构建一个学习引擎，能让孩子们的学习速度快十倍，对吧？
And now, if you look over the last couple of decades with cognitive science and learning science, plus the advent of LLMs, you can build a learning engine that teaches kids 10 times faster, right?
所以一旦你有了这个能力，孩子们能比过去一百年学得快十倍——
And so as soon as you have that ability where kids can learn 10 times faster than they could the last 100 years-
……还是用那种老师站在教室前面的模式的话，问题就是，你要拿这个能力做什么？
... with a teacher-in-front-of-a-classroom model, the question is, what do you do with it?
这就是我们在Alpha做的事情，也就是怎么重新设计上学的一天。
And so that's what we're doing at Alpha, which is how do you reinvent the school day?
所以在我们这个模式里，我们对孩子们做出三个承诺，第一个就是他们热爱学校。
And so in our model, we make three commitments to the kids, which the first is they love school.
而且我上周刚收到调查问卷的结果。
And I just got the surveys back last week.
我们百分之九十多的孩子都说：“我爱学校。”
Ninety-some percent of our kids say, "I love school."
学校里百分之五十的孩子说：“我宁愿去上学也不愿意去度假。”
Fifty percent of the kids at the school said, "I would rather go to school than go on vacation."
我实际上有一个校区，那边百分之六十五的孩子都说：“我宁愿去上学也不去度假。”
I actually have one campus where it's at 65% of the kids are like, "I'd rather go to school than vacation."
所以，如果你要在一个学校待上12年，那就得建一个孩子们喜欢的学校。
And so build a school where kids love it if you're going to be there for 12 years.
但是第二部分呢，用这个引擎，我们的安排是，孩子们每天学两个小时，学到的内容比坐在课堂六个小时加上做作业还要多一倍。
But then the second part with this engine, what we do is the kids learn twice as much in two hours a day as sitting in class for six and doing homework.
所以就是每天两个小时，对吧，用来学学术内容，而且他们学得更多，如果你在别的学校，持续学两倍的内容，那你就会进入前1%了，对吧？
And so it's two hours a day, right, of the academics, and they learn more, which if you're compounding and learning twice as much as you would at your other school, right, you're going to get the top 1%, you know?
不管从哪开始，只要时间够，都能赶上来。
Sort of no matter where you start, given time.
所以孩子们表现特别出色。
And so the kids crush it.
在标准化考试上，我们学校是学术成绩最好的。
On standardized tests, we're the best academic performing school.
然后第二个和第三个承诺就是，那你剩下的大半天时间用来干什么呢？
And then the second and the sort of the third commitment is, well, what would you do the rest of the day?
我觉得这正是我们现在聊的核心问题。
And I think that's a whole thing of what we're talking about now.
我相信现在每所学校，不管是K12还是大学，都得面对一个问题：如果传统教学方式和课程学习速度现在快了十倍，那剩下的一天时间你打算怎么安排？
I believe now every school, and it doesn't matter, K12, university, has to say if the traditional way and the traditional curriculum is now 10 times faster, well, what do you do with the rest of the day?
作为校长，我可以明确告诉你，家长们最不能接受的就是我只上两个小时课就把孩子送回家。
And as a principal, I can definitely tell you the one thing parents would hate is if I sent the kids home after two hours.
他们得在学校待一整天，每天六到七个小时，对吧？
You got them all day, six, seven hours a day, right?
孩子们也愿意待在那儿，他们很喜欢。
And the kids want to be there, and they love it.
所以我们做的就是，哪些生活技能是我们认为在未来的世界里茁壮成长所必需的呢？
So what we do is it's what are all the life skills that we consider critical to thriving in the world that's coming?
世界在变。
The world's changing.
我们该怎么办？
What do we do?
所以我们有五大类生活技能：领导力和团队合作、创业和金融素养、社交能力、人际关系的建立、讲故事、公开演讲、毅力、勤奋。
And so we have five categories of life skills, leadership and teamwork, entrepreneurship and financial literacy, socialization, relationship building, storytelling, public speaking, grit, hard work.
然后你就和你的朋友们一起做项目，有一个成年人来负责，这就是你下午怎么度过的——
And so then you're doing projects in a group with all your friends, with an adult who's running them, and that's how you spend your afternoon-
……其余的时间。
... the rest of the day.
我们刚从奥斯汀回来。
We were just in Austin.
去年我们新增了12个校区。
Then we added 12 campuses last year.
现在总共有50个了。
We're up to 50.
需求火爆到不行，你知道的……
Demand's insane that, you know-
大家都想要这种新模式。
... people want this new thing.
我们算是第一个做的，但以后每个人都会关注这个趋势。
We're sort of first, but everybody's going to have to look at this.
目前大家还不相信两小时制教学就够了，我们还需要扩大规模，积累更多验证案例。
Today, no one believes, oh, this is a two-hour work, and we have to get scale and more proof points.
但一旦你意识到，哇，孩子们完全可以在两小时内学到所有需要的东西，
But once you realize, wow, kids could learn everything they need to in two hours-
每个家庭、每个学校的校长、每个人，全世界的教育部长都会问：'我们该如何重建学校的一天呢？为了未来100年。'
... every family, every head of school, everybody, every education minister around the world's going to say, "How do we rebuild the school day, right, for the next 100 years?
因为我们不需要像过去一百年那样做。
Because we don't need to do it like we did the last 100."
是的，我记得六年前去过Alpha。
Yeah, I remember visiting Alpha six years ago.
那是在你全职投入之前，我立刻就理解了，因为我在学习科学和教育领域已经待了十五到二十年。
This is before you were full-time on it, and I immediately got it because I've been in learning science and sort of education for 15 to 20 years.
但我想说，你能够实现的那个转变，就是它的可信度。
But I will say that the shift that I think you've been able to make is the believability of it.
而且我觉得你做得很好，不仅证明了这有效，而且很快人们就会问："为什么我们还要用别的方式？"
And I think you've done a great job of figuring out how to show that not only does this work, but pretty soon people are going to ask, "Why would we ever do it any other way?"
从商业角度来看，这真的是你过去五年所取得的成就的聪明之处。
And that's really the brilliance of, from a business standpoint, what you've accomplished over the last five years, I think.
我四年前成为校长，我的背景是产品和创业。
I became principal four years ago, and my background's product, right, and entrepreneurship.
而这只是需要产品包装罢了。
And this just needed sort of product packaging.
怎么把这个产品化，让大家都能理解和规模化呢？
How do you productize this into something that is understandable and scalable?
还有一点就是，学校真的很难扩大规模。
That's the other part is it's really hard to scale schools.
怎么在保证质量的前提下扩大规模呢？
How do you scale them at quality?
所以，我最初三年都在思考这个问题，这其实也是引入AI的一大好处——
And so that's, for my first three years, it was how to do that, and that's actually one of the big benefits of bringing AI-
它能在高质量的基础上帮助扩大规模。
... is it helps you scale at high quality.
我们有个口号：'越大越好'。
Our phrase is, "We get better as we get bigger."
看看过去这四年，我们的考试成绩、客户满意度、学生幸福感——
And if you look at anything over the last four years, our test scores, customer sat, student happiness-
研讨会质量等等，所有这些每年都在提升，因为系统越大，质量越好。
... the quality of the workshops, all of those get better every year because the system gets better as it gets bigger.
我们有不少同事、朋友把孩子送到Alpha，你会看到孩子们特别喜欢。
We have a number of teammates, colleagues, friends who send their kids to Alpha, and you see the kids love it.
我记得我小时候特别讨厌从幼儿园到高中的那段经历。
And I remember hating my K to 12 experience.
是不是就是那种两小时的安排？
Is it this two-hour sort of arrangement?
你觉得最让孩子们喜欢的是什么？其他学校应该学什么？
What is it that you find is most contributing to kids loving it that other schools should be adopting?
同样，我们在镜头外也聊到，动力可能被低估了，也许它是决定孩子成绩差异的最大因素之一。
And similarly, we were also talking off-camera about how motivation is underrated or maybe one of the biggest elements in terms of what is separating outcomes for kids.
你们是怎么解决这个问题的？
How are you tackling that as well?
我觉得最大的问题是，教育科技在历史上在学校里表现不佳，没有达到人们期望的影响。
I think the biggest thing is edTech historically hasn't done well in schools, hasn't had the impact that people wanted.
如果你看这个学习引擎，觉得它就像教育科技一样，然后把它直接放到正常的学校日程里，那它肯定会失败的。
And if you look at this learning engine and say, "Oh, this is like edTech, and I'm just going to put it into a normal school day," it'll fail.
那就会和其他东西一样，没什么区别。
It'll be just like everything else.
当我跟人聊起Alpha，他们听说这个学习引擎后，都会问一个核心问题：你愿不愿意重新设计你的学校日常，让孩子们觉得上学比放假还开心？
And when I talk to somebody who hears about Alpha, and they hear all this learning engine, one question, and this is the core of everything, which is, are you willing to redesign your school day so kids love it more than vacation?
如果你遇到一个校长，他能做到这一点，那一切就都顺了。
And if you have a head of school who says that, then you're all set.
而动机这个事儿就属于这一块——
And that motivation falls under that-
也就是说，如果你每天早上醒来想的是：我怎么让孩子爱上学习？
... obviously, which is if you are waking up and saying, "How am I going to make kids love this?"
那就是我们能做所有其他事情的核心。
That is the core of what allows us to do everything else.
人们听到这个会担心，觉得这像迪士尼乐园，孩子们到处跑来跑去，什么都没学到，或者觉得这不严谨。
And people are worried when they hear that of, "Oh, it's Disneyland, and they're just running around, and they're not learning," or, "It's not rigorous."
就像电子游戏或电视一样。
Video games or TV.
对，还有所有这些方面。
Yeah, and all these things.
其实恰恰相反，我们常说的一点是，让孩子快乐的关键是高标准。
And it's literally just the opposite, which is one of the things we talk about is the key to your child's happiness is high standards.
孩子们想去做有挑战性的事情。
Kids want to go do hard things.
他们喜欢做难事，而且喜欢和朋友一起做。
They love to do hard things, and they love to do hard things with their friends.
如果只是整天打游戏，那他们在家里就能做。
If it was just playing video games all day, they can go do that at home.
但他们愿意说“我想做这个，而不是去度假”，是因为他们在和喜欢的朋友一起做有挑战性的事情。
But to sit there and say, "I want to do this instead of vacation," it's because they're doing challenging things with their friends that they love.
这并不难理解。
It's not hard.
举个简单的例子，比如团队合作，对吧？
An easy example is sort of like teamwork, right?
以及作为团队去鼓舞你的同学。
And uplifting your classmates as a team.
在传统学校里，他们不教这个。
In traditional school, they don't teach this.
课外运动，当然在美国是这样的。
After-school sports, absolutely, in America.
团队合作，领导力。
Teamwork, leadership.
但在学校里，他们不教。
But in schools, they don't.
实际上，学校里的多数团队项目，小组项目都很糟糕。
Actually, most team projects in school, group projects are terrible.
一个人做全部。
One person does it.
其他人只是坐在那里。
Everybody else just sits around.
那些你总会记得的。
You always remember those.
真的很糟糕。
They were terrible.
所以学到的是反面的团队合作。
And so you learn the opposite of teamwork.
学到的是一种反面模式。
You learn the anti-pattern.
在我们学校，有个很好的例子：沃顿商学院有一个MBA挑战，里面有个模拟登顶珠穆朗玛峰的项目。
And in our school, actually, a good indication of that is the Wharton has an MBA challenge where they have a simulation that you take, and it's go up Mount Everest.
有50%的MBA学生在团队合作上失败了……
50% of MBAs fail the teamwork-
……因为他们从小到大……
... because they never were taught teamwork sort of their whole-
……在学校里压根没学过怎么团队合作。
... stack through school.
我们会给每个三年级的孩子戴上麦克风，然后把他们扔进一个密室逃脱里。
We take every third grader, and we mic them up, and we throw them into an escape room.
然后他们都成功通过了密室逃脱。
And they're all getting through the escape room.
哇。
Wow.
最后，我们会让人工智能分析对话记录。
And at the end of it, we have AI analyze the transcript.
你的语言中有多少百分比——
What percent of your language-
——是偏向团队合作的？
... were you team-oriented?
你是在帮助别人，还是——答案我可以直接告诉你。
Were you helping, or were you-- And the answer, I can give you the answer.
你的语言中，鼓舞人心的部分不到20%。
Less than 20% of the language is uplifting.
又是打架，又是推搡，还有“我的主意”，对吧？
Fighting and pushing and my idea, right?
各种乱七八糟的事儿。
All these different things.
所以我们为此办了一个八周的工作坊，他们全程参与，而且他们一直回归到团队合作这个主题上。
And so we have an eight-week workshop for this, and they go through it, and they keep going back to the teamwork.
而且要想毕业，要想通过这门课，他们必须做到85%的行为都体现团队精神。
And to graduate, right, to pass the class, they have to get up to 85% of team behavior.
我们还让他们看到，他们完成逃生室的速度要快三倍——
And we also show them that they finish the escape room three times faster-
——当你处在团队环境里的时候。
... when you're doing team environment.
这真的是一个特别棒又好玩的方式。
And that's just a great, fun way.
孩子们特别喜欢。
Kids love it.
这是一种生活技能，每位家长都会说：‘哦，这正是我希望孩子学到的东西。’
It's a life skill that every parent's like, "Oh, that's the stuff I want my kids to learn."
而且因为他们不用整天坐在教室里，他们就能做到这一点。
And because they don't have to sit in class all day, they can do that.
然后到了四年级和五年级，我们的生活技能课程和我们的核心课程一样严格——
And then fourth and fifth grade, right, our life skills curriculum is as rigorous as our-
就像通过物理或数学测试一样，你必须通过逃生室的测试。
... core passing a physics test or a math test, is you have to pass the escape room test.
在四年级和五年级，我们实际上让他们通过沃顿商学院MBA挑战，而有50%的MBA学生做不到。
In fourth and fifth grade, we actually make them pass the Wharton MBA challenge that 50% of the MBAs can't.
而四年级和五年级的孩子却能通过。
And you take a fourth and fifth grader, and they pass it.
回到自豪、兴奋和想做的状态，你可以在更小的年纪就吸引他们并教授这些技能。
That back to being proud and excited and wanting to do it, you can engage them and teach these skills much younger.
而且我认为，当我们看待世界时，我们还没有这样的能力——
And I believe as we look at the world, we haven't had the capability-
以前没法在更小的年纪教孩子们这些，因为他们整天坐在教室里。
... to teach kids all this at a much younger age, because you're sitting in class all day.
但现在既然我们能够做到——
But now that we can-
当然，我们就必须去做。
... of course, we must.
所以他们之所以喜欢，是因为他们能感觉到自己学得更快、成长得更快、建立更深的关系，总的来说，这基本上是你在度假时得不到的。
So the reason they're enjoying it is because they can feel themselves learning faster, growing faster, building deeper relationships, and just overall, that's something you can't get on vacation, basically.
对，就像那个密室逃脱。
Well, and it's like that, that escape room.
对家长来说，这是一个很高的标准。
It's a high bar for your parents.
第二点，就是你说的，还有什么。
The second is to your point of what else.
孩子们不喜欢学校。
Kids don't like school.
咱们聊聊学业和生活技能的差别吧。
Let's talk academics versus life skills.
这两者有点像两个不同的方向——在学业上，孩子不喜欢做自己做不好的事情。
They're sort of two different-- On the academic side, kids don't like to do things they fail at.
这在学业上确实如此。
That's true on academics.
在任何事情上都是这样。
That's true on anything.
这就是为什么在美国，我们会让孩子在体育上落后，对吧？
That's why in America, we hold kids back on sports, right?
因为你想让他们变大，对吧？
Because you want to give them, they're bigger, right?
然后突然之间，他们表现更好了，赢了比赛，得到了表扬和——
Then all of a sudden, they're playing better, and they win, and then they get the accolades and-
好吧，对吧？
... okay, right?
这样就能让他们走上那条路。
And you get them on that path.
而在美国的学术体系里，因为我们是按年龄分级的，一旦你落后了，对吧——
And then academics in America, because we're a time-based system, right, once you fall behind, right-
你就被困住了。
You're stuck
……那剩下的时间就变成折磨了，对吧？
... then it's just now it's torture the rest of the time, right?
不管你在哪里落后，对吧？
Wherever you fall behind, right?
而在我们的体系里，因为我们的学习引擎会给你个性化的课程——
And in our system, because our learning engine will give you a personalized lesson-
对，你的年龄和年级都不重要。
... right, it doesn't matter what your age grade is.
你可以在八年级，如果需要五年级的课程，因为不管怎样，你来Alpha之前错过了，它就会给你五年级的课程。
You can be in eighth grade, and if you need a fifth-grade lesson because whatever, before you came to Alpha, you missed it, it's going to give you the fifth-grade lesson.
而且你一定能做到，能通过，然后继续往前走。
And you're going to be able to do it, and you're going to be able to pass it and then move forward.
所以，我们在学业上为孩子们设计胜利。如果你要问这个引擎的核心价值是什么，那就是让孩子保持在80%到85%的正确率区间，对吧？
And so, we engineer wins for the kids in the academics that if you had to say the core value of what the engine does is for the kids, you basically want kids in this 80 to 85% correct zone, right?
你参与某件事时，有多少比例的时间是太难或太容易？
Just what percent of the time, if you're engaging with something, is it too easy or too hard?
如果正确率是100%，那就太简单了。
If it's 100% correct, it's too easy.
你根本没学到任何东西。
You're not even learning anything.
你只是在重复你已经知道的东西。
You're just regurgitating what you know.
而且任何游戏开发者都会告诉你，如果你的正确率低于三分之二，失败超过三分之二的时间，你就会失去兴趣。
And any video game developer will tell you, if you drop below two-thirds and you're failing more than two-thirds of the time, you're going to disengage.
所以，学习引擎能做到的一件事，就是一个面对30个学生的老师做不到的——确保孩子能持续不断地收到正确率在80%到85%的课程和问题。
So one of the things that a learning engine can do that a teacher in front of a classroom with 30 people can't do is make sure the kid gets an unending stream of lessons and questions that's 80% to 85% accurate.
我们完全可以做到这一点。
And we can just do it.
如果内容太难，我们可以给他们提供辅导课，帮他们补上。
And if it gets too hard, we can give them scaffolding lessons to catch up.
如果太简单，就让他们更快地学习后面的内容。
Too easy, you progress them faster through the material.
如果你给孩子布置他们能完成的作业，让他们保持参与感，他们就会喜欢学习。
And if you keep kids engaged because you're giving them work they can do, then they like that.
当孩子们真正表现好，而你对他们有高要求时，他们会非常兴奋。
And when kids actually do well and you hold them to high standards, they get very excited.
他们会看到自己在学业上表现优异，而不是苦苦挣扎。
And just, they see themselves crushing their academics instead of struggling with it.
当他们表现好的时候，他们非常喜欢这种感觉。
And when they're doing well, they love that.
Gagan，我很好奇你怎么看待这个话题，以及Alpha在K-12教育中的做法，这对我们在HAA的工作有什么启发。
Gagan, I'm curious how you think about this conversation and what Alpha's doing in K-12, and how that informs what we're doing with HAA.
非常受启发。
Incredibly inspired.
我觉得自从我第一次参观Alpha学校以来，就一直被它启发。它证明了我们在霍洛维茨和安德森学院的理念：如果你用现代工具为现代时代重新设计系统，你就能在成果上拥有一切你想要的。
I think that I've been inspired by Alpha School since I first visited, and it proves, I think, the thesis that we have at the Horowitz and Andreessen Academy, that if you redesign the system for the modern era with modern tools, that you can have everything that you want in terms of outcomes.
你可以拥有更强大的人脉网络。
You can have more network.
很多人说，你上学是为了人脉。
A lot of people say you go to school for network.
我们要让你的网络变得好上10倍。
We're going to take your network and make it 10X better.
人人都说，你上学是为了成为更好的人。
Everyone says you're going to go to school to become a better person.
霍洛维茨和安德森学院绝对希望你能成为更好的人。
Horowitz and Andreessen Academy absolutely wants you to become a better person.
我们会精心设计这个系统，让你更有可能成为一个正和思维的人。
We're going to engineer the system so that you're more likely to become a positive sum human.
你想要有高度的自主性，并且想要做困难的事情，Alpha 给了我很多关于如何确保学生获得这些的灵感。
You want to have high agency and you want to do hard things, Alpha has given me a lot of inspiration on how to ensure that students get that.
我觉得唯一的区别是，在每个年龄段，你都必须做一些非常不同的事情。
I think the one difference is that at every age range, you have to do something very different.
所以如果你真的听乔讲，K到8年级，高中，非常不同。
So if you actually listen to Joe talk, K8, high school, very different.
当你从高中进入大学时代，也非常不同。
When you go from high school to college era, very different.
所以现在突然之间，你必须做出正确的改变。
And so now all of a sudden, you have to make the right changes.
你不能只是把一切照搬过来。
You can't just copy everything over.
所以归根结底，如果你有以学生为中心的思维，如果你只是告诉全国任何一所主要大学的领导者，他们的首要且唯一的任务是确保学生成功，我相信美国会有很多优秀的学校。
And so ultimately, if you have a student-centric mindset, if you just told the leaders of any major university in the country that their number one job and no other job was to make sure that the students were succeeding, I'm sure that there would be many great schools in the United States.
不幸的是，这样的学校并不多，因为大多数大学领导者不得不把90%的时间花在关注周围所有的成年人上，而没有足够的时间关注学生。
Unfortunately, there aren't many, because most university leaders are required to spend 90% of their time focused on all the adults around them and not enough on the students.
你看乔身上的一点就是，他老是把孩子们挂在嘴边。
And one of the things you see with Joe's is he's always talking about the kids.
乔，我很好奇，你非常慷慨地以投资人和顾问的身份参与了HAA。
Joe, I'm curious, you've very generously gotten involved with the HAA as an investor and advisor.
是什么让你对我们做的事情感到兴奋？你对大学和高中的差异又是怎么考虑的？
What excited you about what we're up to, and how have you thought about the differences between college and high school?
我超级兴奋，因为我完全相信大学需要像我们在K-12阶段那样进行重塑。
So I'm super excited because I absolutely believe that university needs to be reinvented just like we have in K-12.
所以我专注于K-12阶段。
And so I'm focused on K-12.
但我非常高兴你们跳进来，说：“咱们就这么干。”
But I'm very excited that you guys jumped in and said, "Let's do this."
所以任何我能帮忙的地方，我都愿意。
So anything I could do to help, I want it.
第一，我需要有为Alpha孩子们提供去处的地方。
One, I need places for Alpha kids to go.
会有很多孩子都像我这样，
There's going to be a whole set of kids who are like-
那太好了，等不及了。
Can't wait
……
...
我特别想去那样的学校。
I want to go there.
那我们做了什么？我们是怎么想的？
And so what have we done and what have we thought about?
你说得对，这完全不一样，对吧？
To your point, it's completely different, right?
我们每个高中都和初中很不一样。
Each, our high school is very different than our K8.
而且我觉得大学也该有它独特的样子。
And I believe university needs to be different.
而且我不觉得大家高中毕业之后就都不去大学了。
And I don't believe the whole concept of is everybody just going to come out of high school and not go to university anymore?
我真的不觉得是这样。
I actually don't think that's true.
我觉得重新改造大学、让它变得很棒，这里面有很大的机会。
I believe there's a huge opportunity to reinvent university and make it awesome.
没人想去一个差的学校——
No one wants to go to a bad school-
……那种糟糕透顶、又没法让孩子准备好未来的学校。
... and where it's terrible, and it's not getting the kids ready.
举个例子，这个夏天有70多个来自MIT、斯坦福和UT的学生来Alpha实习。
As an example, we had over 70 MIT and Stanford kids, and UT, came to Alpha this summer as interns.
我们当时跟他们说：“跟我们讲讲大学的情况吧。
And part of what we were saying is, "Tell us about university.
你们那边怎么样？”
How's it going?
你们怎么看？
What do you think?"
然后我就问他们：‘你们当中有多少人觉得自己现在上的大学，不管你上的是哪一所，是在为毕业后的世界做准备？’
And I was like, "How many of you guys expect that this university getting you ready, whatever one you're going to, is getting you ready for the world when you graduate?"
结果只有一个孩子举手。
And one kid raised his hand.
我当时就想：‘真的假的？
It was just like, I was like, "Seriously?
你们一个都没有？’
None of you?"
然后他们就说——
And they're like-
天哪，幸好
Thank God
——‘我们怕得要命。’
... "We're terrified.
我们拼命学了十二年，就是为了进这些好大学，可现在却害怕毕业的时候，以前那些毕业就能拿到的工作都没有了。
We worked our 12 years really hard to get into these great universities, and now we're terrified that when it comes time to graduate, there's not going to be those jobs that you used to get coming out of it.
那些毕业头一两年的工作没了，AI会来做这些工作。
Those first one and two-year jobs aren't there, and AI's going to be doing it.
那我们该怎么办？
So what do we do?"
所以这个夏天，他们作为实习生花了很多时间，想出了他们认为的大学改革方案，以及他们想要什么样的大学。
And so they spent a lot of time this summer as interns coming up with what they thought would be reinvention of university and what they would want.
又回到孩子们想挑战难事这个话题了，对吧？
And back to kids wanting to do hard things, right?
他们是实习生，来了以后提出：“我们要建一个教育领域的大语言模型，让全世界每个人都能免费使用，因为每个主权国家都需要自己的大语言模型，教育用的小语言模型，就装在设备上。”
They were interns and they came in and they came up, "We're going to build this educational LLM so we can make it free for everybody in the world because every sovereign is going to need its own LLM, educational LLM, small language model that sits on a device."
这些孩子每周工作80个小时，做研究，搞清楚学习的原理。
And those kids worked 80 hours a week, figuring out, doing research, figuring out the concepts of learning.
他们的成果将要发表。
They're going to be published.
到最后他们说，这就是我们希望大学变成的样子。
And at the end of it, they're like, "This is what we would love the university to be."
我们一起在这个超级难但有深远影响的事情上合作，这真的能帮助改变世界。
"Where we're all working together on this super hard thing that has meaningful impact to the world, that could really help change the world."
然后他们说，真希望这些能成为课程，在——
And they're like, "I wish these could be classes at-
——在麻省理工、斯坦福和德州大学，但可惜不是。
... MIT and Stanford and UT," but they're not .
那时候我想到你们在做的，就是重塑大学，让孩子们真正去实践。
And that's when I think about what you guys are doing of reinventing it and letting kids really build.
这不只是课程的问题，而是为真实世界做准备，以及所有你需要的技能。
It's not just about the classes, it's about getting ready for the real world and all those skills you need.
我觉得在大学里这些是不同的，但你们在这方面做的事情让我非常兴奋。
I believe those are different at university, but I'm very excited about what you're building around that.
对，我觉得很重要的一点是要明白，一个真正有抱负的普通大学生需要亲手去实践。
Yeah, I think it's really important to understand that an average student who's going to university, who's really ambitious, they need to get their hands dirty.
他们三四年后就要进入真实世界了，所以走出去、动手做事、了解真实情况、犯错误并应对挑战，对他们来说非常重要。
They are entering the real world in three to four years, and it's super critical for them to be going and building things and understanding what it's like, and making mistakes and dealing with the challenges.
我特别喜欢你说的，他们在80小时的工作中还在学习。
And I really love that you said that they were studying as part of the 80 hours.
他们在奥斯汀每周实习80个小时，而且你还提到了学习。
So they're in Austin for an 80-hour a week internship, and you mentioned studying.
我猜你肯定没给他们布置什么教科书吧。
And I'm guessing you didn't assign any textbooks.
没有。而且回到刚才说的，他们得自己去研究，才能构建一个LLM。
No. And back to this, they had to go do all the research to build an LLM.
所以他们真的在学习科学，深入研究。
So they literally are researching learning science, researching it.
我们有个数据结构叫“大脑提升”。
We have this data structure called the brain lift.
他们当时非常努力——
And they were working hard-
对
Yes
……做那些在大学里属于经典必修的内容。
... on what would be considered classical stuff you need to do at a university.
但这不只是学习本身。
But it wasn't just the studying part.
关键是怎么把学到的用起来，真正动手去做，对吧？
It was how do you apply it and be a builder, right?
我觉得你说的“做好准备”意味着两者都要兼顾。
And I think your point of getting ready is it's both.
你提到学习90%靠的是动力。
Well, you talk about learning as being 90% motivation.
18岁的时候，激励你的是做出别人会用的东西。
And when you're 18 years old, you're motivated by building things that people will use.
激励你的是收入、找到工作这类事情。
You're motivated by revenue and getting a job and that kind of thing.
那为什么不把整个学习体验建立在这种动力之上，用这种动力去真正学习东西呢？
And so why not make the entire learning experience driven by that motivation, and using that motivation to actually go and learn things?
因为我对大学的担忧是，我知道埃里克和我都有过这样的经历，我们聊过这个，我其实没学到多少东西，因为我不喜欢那种教学形式。
Because my concern with college is, I know Erik and I had this experience, we've talked about it, I didn't learn very much because I did not like the format.
说实话，现在我去斯坦福的校园或者别的什么校园，好像没人喜欢那种形式。
And to be honest, now I go to Stanford's campus or someone else's campus, no one seems to like the format.
所以20年前，我算是少数派，大概只有20%的学生跟我有同感。
So 20 years ago, I was a little bit in the minority, maybe 20% of students agreed with me.
我记得那时候上课出勤率也就一半左右。
Our classes were about half full, I would say, in attendance.
我听说现在出勤率连10%都不到。
I hear they're now way under 10% full.
学生们觉得这种形式行不通。
Students are not finding the format to work.
你得重新设计形式，这样才能激发动力，让他们真正学到东西。
You need to reinvent the format in order to create motivation so they actually learn things.
这也是这所学院的主要关注点之一。
And that's one of the main focuses of the academy.
不只是这样，我觉得另一个例子就是我们阿尔法高中的第一届毕业生，那是三年前的事了。
No, I think another example is our first graduating class from Alpha High was three years ago.
所以那年圣诞节，等他们都在大学里待了一段时间后，我把他们聚到了一起。
And so at Christmas, after they'd all been at university, I got them together.
我就问他们：“怎么样？”
I was like, "How's it going?
我说“你们在实际……”，因为那是关键，对吧？
How do you do in real..." Because that's the number, right?
你们上了大学之后表现如何？
How do you do in university after you come out?
他们就说：“挺好的，我们很喜欢。”
And they're like, "Okay, we love it."
他们全都拿了4.0的绩点。
They all had 4.0s.
他们表现超好。
They were crushing it.
但他们说：“那些百人大课纯粹是浪费时间。”
But they were like, "These 100 series lecture classes are a complete waste of time."
他们中有五个人给校报写过社论，说那不过是走个过场，学生们进来就刷抖音或用电脑，根本不专心，甚至都不来上课。
Five of them had written editorials to their school paper about how it's just a charade, how the kids come in are scrolling TikTok or on their computers, not paying attention or not showing up.
老师们在上面讲课，他们就觉得：“这些课真的没必要再开了。”
And the teachers are teaching, and they're just like, "Those don't need to exist anymore."
我于是说：“那你们喜欢什么呢？”
Now, I was like, "Well, what do you like?"
他们说：“哎呀，有很多很棒的小班研讨课，我们在那里面搞……”
And they're like, "Oh, there's all these great small group seminars where we're working on-
社团
Clubs
……社团和围绕它的各种活动。”
... clubs and all the activities around it."
大学就是一系列产品打包在一起，对吧？
A university is a bundle of products, right?
他们喜欢这个打包，但是那些大课和学术部分，他们觉得应该取消。
And they liked the bundle, but the actual academic part of these big lecture classes and stuff, they're like, "That needs to go away."
而且疯狂的是，你提到的那个学术部分恰恰是大学唯一正式提供的东西。
And what's crazy is that that academic part that you're talking about is the only thing the university formally provides.
所以实际上，其余的部分都是学生自己推动的。
So it's actually, the rest of the bundle is student driven.
而且学术部分大概占了一半的时间，对吧？
And the academic stuff takes up about 50% of the time, right?
嗯，所以我从斯坦福辍学了。
Well, so I dropped out of Stanford.
我就是那种孩子。
And I was this kid.
其实就是，学术部分没占我一半时间，因为我都不去上课。
Which was, it didn't take up 50% of my time because I skipped the classes.
说得对，其实我也没怎么上课。
Fair, me neither for what it's worth.
但你要是去上课的话，确实得花一半时间。
But if you go to the classes, it takes 50%.
不过说到我在那里的经历，在那待的几年里，我觉得挺棒的，因为除了上课之外的其他事情。
But back to my experience there, and for the couple of years I was there, it was great because of all the other things.
遇到的那些人。
The people I met.
比如乔布斯来过学校，对吧？
Steve Jobs came down, right?
他来做演讲，我有个朋友去听了，后来还在NeXT工作。
Was giving a talk, and one of my friends went and was working at Next.
还有比尔·乔伊和斯科特·麦克尼利也会来演讲，听完之后你还能跟他们待会儿或者一起吃个午饭。
And Bill Joy and Scott McNealy would come and talk, and you'd go spend time with them afterward or have lunch.
所有这些经历，认识的人，接触真实世界，还有跟朋友一起动手做东西，最后这些都成了我们公司的起点。
All of those experiences that you had, of who you met and seeing the real world, plus building stuff with my friends, that eventually became our company.
对我来说，产品的魅力就在于此，而坐在那些讲座课上恰恰相反。
That was what was great about the product to me, and sitting in these lecture classes were the opposite of that.
我们之前聊过如何让学生爱上它，但当然，更重要的是，因为决定孩子去哪所学校的其实是他们的父母。
One thing we've talked about is how to make the students love it, but of course, even more important, because decision in terms of where kids go to school is their parents.
所以，谈谈你和家长们的对话是如何演变的，无论是涉及早期教育还是高等教育，以及你给他们的一些建议。
And so talk about how the conversations you're having with parents are evolving, whether it relates to early education or higher education, and some of the advice that you give them.
太好了。
Great.
所以，我现在和成千上万的家长交谈，大概在K12阶段——
So, I talk to tens of thousands of parents now, sort of in the K12-
……K12阶段。
... K12 range.
而且我其实对这种转变感到震惊，也就是说，仍然有一些家庭会说：“我是幼儿园孩子的家长，我想看到直接通往常春藤盟校的路径。”
And I've been shocked, actually, at the switch, which is, there's still some families who are like, "I'm a kindergarten parent, and I want to see the direct path right into the Ivy League."
但同样多的，甚至更多的，是那些毕业于斯坦福或哈佛的家长，他们会说：“不，我知道我不想让我的孩子走那条路。”
But an equal number, maybe even more, of parents who went to Stanford or Harvard who are like, "No, I know I don't want my kid on that path.
那你打算怎么让他们为一个不是那样的世界做好准备呢？
How are you going to get them ready for a world that's not that?"
他们真的想看到这条不同的路径，因为当他们看的时候，尤其是甚至在幼儿园阶段，他们就在展望12年后的未来，然后会想：“我该怎么办？”
And they absolutely want to see this alternative path, because when they look, especially even in kindergarten, they're looking forward 12 years from now, and they're like, "What am I going to do?"
“你们怎么为我的孩子准备迎接这个世界？”
"How are you preparing my kid for the world?"
他们对世界的看法是：“是的，我上了常春藤盟校，但这对我的孩子来说不会是这样。
And their vision of the world is, "Yes, I went to the Ivy League, but that's not going to be for my kid.
我觉得那样并不能让他做好准备。”
I don't think that's going to get him ready.
如果你告诉我那样不行，那我就不想要你们的K12学校。”
And if you're telling me that, I don't want your K12 school."
所以这种情况现在经常发生。
And so that's happening a lot now.
他们到底在找什么？
And they're looking for what are they?
展开剩余字幕（还有 461 条）
因为我觉得现在大家已经意识到了，跟过去三四十年相比，世界真的在变，对吧？
Because I think there's recognition now, versus maybe the last 30 or 40 years, that the world is really changing, right?
而且如果你是个高三或高四的学生，我跟你说这些，父母基本上已经放弃了。
And if you're an 11th grade or a 12th grader and I'm talking to you, the parents are sort of done.
他们就觉得，"赶紧让我的孩子上大学就行了，" 对吧？
They're like, "Just get my kid into college," right?
他们差不多是这种心态，"我一路走到现在，就差最后一步了。"
They're sort of like, "I've been on this route and I'm at the five-yard line."
"我可不想把所有的牌都推倒重来。"
"I'm not throwing all the cards up in the air."
但要是看更年轻的孩子——那些家长就会觉得，"现在的这条路肯定不对。"
But when you look younger- Those parents are like, "There's just no way that the current path is going to be the right one."
所以我想，我估计，不管你们什么时候拿到需求，都会有很多孩子强烈要求说，"好吧，我必须得去做这件事。"
And so when I think of this, I would expect, and I don't know when you get your demand, you're going to have massive demand from all the kids who are going to be like, "Okay, I have to go do this.
"这一点太明显了。"
It's so obvious."
这太棒了。
"This is awesome."
然后你还得跟家长单独做销售工作，让他们明白，虽然这不是你们当年的路，但这是现在的路。
And then you will have to have a separate sales job with the parents to show them, look, while it wasn't the way you did it, this is the way.
而且这件事有历史先例，你要是想了解的话，可能会觉得有用。1910年的时候，90%的美国人只受过八年级的教育。
And there's a historical precedent for this that might be useful for you if you want to go through it, which is, in 1910, 90% of America had an eighth grade education.
基本上没有高中。
There were no high schools, basically.
哇。
Wow.
而超过30%的美国人都是农民。
And over 30% of America's a farmer.
所以大家都在农场里，八年级就够了，高中时你就去田里干活。
And so everybody's on the farm, eighth grade was enough, you work in the fields in high school.
然后在1910年，履带式拖拉机登上了美国的农场。
And then in 1910, the case tractor rolled up on the American farm.
真的，你可以去看看那些广告，看起来就跟Anthropic的广告一模一样。
And literally, you can go look at the ads, it literally looks like an Anthropic ad.
它顶得上50个程序员，也顶得上50个农场工人。
It does the work of 50 programmers, does the work of 50 farmhands.
然后整个美国都意识到，30%的工作要没了。
And literally, everybody in America realized 30% of the jobs are going away.
我的孩子和孙子们，我们世世代代都是这么过来的。
My kids and grandkids, we've been doing this for generations.
就这样没了。
It's gone.
那条路已经走不通了，我们得让孩子准备好迎接这个新未来。
That path is gone, and we have to get our kids ready for this new future.
我觉得，现在的父母也有同样的认识。
And it was that same recognition, I think, that parents have today.
传统的那条路，就是那些工作。
The traditional path is those jobs.
就是今年夏天来的那些孩子，他们会说，我马上要从斯坦福、麻省理工毕业了。
It's the kids coming in this summer, where they're like, "I'm going to get out of Stanford, MIT.
我却找不到工作。
I'm not going to have a job."
但那时候美国做的是，13万个城镇的居民投票决定提高自己的税收，关键就在这里，他们出钱去支持一种他们从未体验过的教育。
But what America did back then is 130,000 towns, we used to have-- They voted to actually raise their taxes, and this is the key part, fund an education that they'd never experienced.
他们从未见过高中课程表。
They'd never seen a high school curriculum.
他们从未上过高中。
They'd never been to high school.
他们只有八年级的教育水平，但他们知道自己必须做些和以前不一样的事。
They had an eighth grade education, but they knew they had to do something different than their background.
他们必须用新的眼光看世界，才能让孩子做好准备，得到好工作。而那时候的学校制度，就成了我们过去一百年来的工业体系。
They had to see the world differently to get their kids ready and get them the good jobs, which back then, that school system became the industrial system we've had the last 100 years.
这套体系服务了我们一百年，效果很好，但现在该迎来下一次变革了。你得说服家长们，让他们像1910年的那些农村农民一样认识到，虽然我没经历过，这和我做的不一样，但这是孩子未来茁壮成长所需要的。
It served us really well for 100 years, but now it's time for the next change, and you're going to have to convince the families to be like those 1910 rural farmers who realized, while I haven't experienced it and it's different than what I did, this is what my kid needs to thrive in the future.
是啊，那你会对那位家长说什么呢？他们说：“嘿，我要把孩子送到常春藤学校去。”
Yeah, and what would you say to the parent who's saying, "Hey, I'm sending my kid to an Ivy League school.
“我知道它不完美。”
I know it's not perfect."
“但这是一个新的机构。”
"But this is a new institution."
“我为什么要冒险？”
"Why should I take a risk?"
你为什么会考虑冒险去上这个学院？
Why would you consider taking a risk on the Academy?
所以实际上，我过去四年在K12层面一直在经历这个。
So I've been living this actually at the K12 level now for four years.
是的。
Yes.
这又回到...幸运的是，你不需要所有人都同意，对吧？
And it is one where back to-- The lucky part is you don't need everybody, right?
总会有一部分人。
There's going to be that set.
当我跟家庭沟通时，这也是一条接受曲线，跟其他任何事物一样。有一部分家庭，他们完全意识到现在的体系根本不行。
And when I talk to families, it's an adoption curve just like any other one, and there's a set of families who absolutely realize the current system's just not there.
还有那些人，他们坐在那儿说：“我感觉到了，但我还需要被说服。”
Or the people who sit there and say, "I feel it, but I just need to be moved over."
我两个女儿在八年级的时候，有人告诉我们，如果她们去Alpha，她们就上不了大学，她们必须得上传统学校。
Both my daughters we're told they're not going to get into college, when they were in eighth grade, if they went to Alpha and they had to go to a traditional school.
而她们不可能上得了大学。
And there was just no chance that that would occur.
所以这就是那种二元对立。
And so there is that dichotomy.
但对于家长来说，如果你看看四年前去Alpha的家庭，和那些没去、去传统高中的家庭相比，有更多的家庭现在会说：“我真该把孩子送去Alpha。”
But for parents, if you look across the families who went to Alpha four years ago, and the ones who didn't, went to Alpha high versus not, there's a lot more families who are like, "I totally should have sent my kid to Alpha."
那些说：“我走了传统路线。”
That, "I went the traditional path.
我以为那是安全的路，结果根本不是。
I thought it was the safe path, and it totally wasn't."
看看那些Alpha的孩子现在多成功。
And look at how those Alpha kids are thriving.
我当时觉得那些人疯了，太冒险了，但现在看看现实，我的孩子没去Alpha，跟那些去了的比，他们后悔了。
And I thought those guys were crazy and risky, but now looking at the reality of what happened with my kid who didn't go to Alpha versus those, they regret it.
我相信你得熬过第一年，因为刚开始没有数据，但一年之后，大家就会看到学生们在茁壮成长。
And I believe that you have to get through the first year because you don't have any data, but one year in, people are going to see that the students are thriving.
一旦你看到了，那对比就出来了。
And once you see that, then that's the comparison.
我甚至想用自己的经历来说这个，因为我说的很积极很乐观，但12年前创立Alpha的不是我。
And I'll even go back to my own experience on this, which is I sort of am talking very positive and optimistic, but I didn't start Alpha 12 years ago.
是McKenzie Price和Brian。
McKenzie Price and Brian did.
我上的是天主教学校。
And I went to Catholic school.
我的孩子在天主教学校上学。
My kids are in Catholic school.
我不喜欢这样，但父母希望孩子按他们的方式受教育。
I didn't like it, but parents want their kids educated the way they are.
是的。
Yes.
这就是传统。
That's the legacy.
这就是问题所在。
That's the problem.
这是你必须克服的。
That's what you have to overcome.
所以我的孩子在天主教学校上学。
And so my kids are in Catholic school.
然后麦肯齐说：“来我的新学校吧。”
And McKenzie's like, "Well, come to my new school."
然后我大学辍学了。
And I dropped out of college.
我在车库里创业。
I started a startup in a garage.
我当时想，"学校不应该在车库里。"
And I'm like, "Schools shouldn't be in a garage.
这太奇怪了。
This is so weird."
"麦克肯齐，你那个学校又破又怪。"
"You have a janky, weird school, McKenzie."
我完全就是——然后我花了两年时间才决定。
And I was totally-- And then it took two years for me.
所以我很慢。
So I was slow.
我花了两年才搬过去。
It took me two years to move over.
然后最后，那是十年前的事了，显然对我们家来说结果很好。
And then finally, that was 10 years ago, and it obviously turned out great for our family.
但回头看，我的孩子们现在还怪我那两年太慢了。
But I look at that, my kids still yell at me for being slow those two years.
他们说：“爸，你早该开始。”
They're like, "You should've started earlier, Dad."
但那个找到那些家庭的概念。
But that concept of finding those families.
所以我们走遍全国。
And so we travel all around the country.
我们开了50个校区。
We've opened 50 campuses.
你在宣讲会上有一千人，然后你说：“谁想成为首批25或50个？”
And you get 1,000 people in the info session, and you're like, "Who wants to be the first 25 or 50?"
一年前，当我们开设第12个校区时，宣讲会上真的有一千多人，但我们连25个都凑不齐。
And a year ago, when we were opening the 12 campuses, literally 1,000-plus people in info sessions, and we couldn't get 25.
我们能招到10个人。
We would get 10.
我们在纽约开校区时，也就招到10到12个人。
We opened New York City with 10 or 12.
现在那个校区已经满员了。
And now the campus is full.
总共有150人。
150 total people.
他们得先看到第一批人成功了，然后就会跟着来。
And they had to go see the first ones that it works, and then it's there.
所以第一批学员总是那些觉得‘我知道现在情况不好，但我愿意先试试’的人。
So the first class is always those people who are like, "I know it's bad.
“我想加入。”
I want to jump in."
你会立刻观察到，也就是我们目前看到的，需求方面的情况是，人们只是需要有个人先迈出第一步。
What you will see immediately and sort of what we're seeing on the demand is people just need someone to go first.
一旦有了第一批成功的案例，需求就会猛增。
And once you get that first and it works, the demand just skyrockets.
而且先入者的好处确实很大。
And the benefits of being first are high.
我看到一些同事和朋友把孩子送到Alpha学校，或者有些朋友参加了类似泰尔奖学金这样的项目，一开始申请人数也很少。那些早早申请的人，都是对自己的信念有勇气的人。
What I see in colleagues and friends who are sending their kids to Alpha or even friends who've done something like the Thiel Fellowship, which is also small application numbers in the beginning, is those people who are applying early have the courage of their conviction.
这是一种正向的自我选择。
It's positive self-selection.
完全同意。
Totally.
所以，你身边都是最聪明、最有勇气的人，无论是孩子还是家长。
And so you're around some of the most brilliant people, some of the most courageous people, both on the kid level and the parent level.
是的，这真的是一次非常棒的经历。
And, yeah, it's really just a phenomenal experience.
没错，这又回到了那个建议——你确实想要那些双方都全力以赴的家庭，因为就是这样。
No. And that is back to advice that you absolutely want the families who are both sides, all in, because it is.
肯定会有些小波折。
There will be hiccups.
总会遇到一些磕磕绊绊。
There's hiccups that happen.
那当然。
For sure.
对，确实是。
Yeah, totally.
刚开始的时候，这是难免的。
And it's part of it when you're starting.
而那些非常怀疑、属于后知后觉型的人，他们根本受不了——这种不确定性会把他们击垮。
And someone who's super skeptical and on the late adopter side, they're just going to not-- It's going to destroy them.
因为他们应付不了。
Because they won't be able to handle it.
而这边那些真正想要这个产品的人。
The people who are over here who really want the product.
我们谈到了磁力营销。
We talk about magnet marketing.
你要吸引对的人，同时排斥错的人。
You want to attract the right people and repel the wrong.
还有那些想当落后分子的人。
And people who want to be laggards.
“我不喜欢AI或屏幕时间。”
"I don't like AI or screen time."
信息会上就有人说这种话。
That's a set of people in the info session say that.
我会说，“那你就不该来。”
I'm like, "You shouldn't come."
完全同意。
Totally.
如果你无法平衡这个产品带来的东西的话。
If you can't balance what this offering is.
我觉得大多数学校都没有做到把产品定义清楚这一点。
Being clear on your product definition is a thing that I don't think most schools do.
但如果你把产品定义说清楚，比如“我们是什么，我们不是什么”，那就能帮你找到那批对的人，正好对应你说的那个。
But if you're clear on your product definition, "This is what we are, this is what we're not," it helps you find those right group and exactly what you talked about.
当那批对的人聚在一起时，因为有一部分是社区的因素。
When the right group's together, because part of it's community.
你在那儿建设社区，包括所有在那儿的孩子。
You're building the community there, all the kids who are there.
而且家长社区在做初创时确实很重要。
And the parent community does matter when you're doing startup.
我们的创始家庭现在是我们学校最大的资产之一——
Our founding families are one of our biggest assets now-
……
...
我们学校是这样，我相信你做的事情也会一样。
at our school, and I believe it'll be the same for what you're doing.
这让我想到了两件事。
I think that makes me think of two things.
第一，我觉得我们会对谁进来比较严格，而不是那么在意班级规模。
One is, I think we're going to be pretty strict about who gets in and less about class size.
你告诉过我这一点。
You've told me this.
我也听说了。
I've heard this.
我觉得那是一个非常重要的教训。
I think that's a very important lesson.
第二个教训，我觉得是，这种事情你不需要大多数人都想要。
The second lesson, I think, is that this is the type of thing where you don't want most people to want it.
你要的是那些真正想要的人来做。
You want the people who really want it to do it.
然后实际上，我再补充一点，我们确实做了一年，而且第一年不收学费。
And then actually, I'll add one more thing, which is we did make it one year, and it's no tuition the first year.
所以也比错过八年级稍微风险小一点。
So it is also a little bit less risky than you're missing eighth grade.
而且你不能重来。
And you can't repeat.
你不想错过八年级。
You don't want to miss eighth grade.
但如果你从大学里抽一年出来，你随时可以回去。
But if you take one year detour from college, you can always go back.
真的没什么区别。
It's really no different.
所以我确实觉得这是我们拥有的好处之一。
So I do think that's one of the things we have the benefit.
看看大学经历和高中经历的细微差别挺有意思的，因为风险在不同的方向上不一样。
It's interesting to see the nuances of a college experience versus a high school experience because the stakes are different in different directions.
我觉得这将是你在一年期项目上对家长的一个优势，就是没有坏处。
I believe that is going to be one of your assets with the parents on the one year is there's no downside.
试一下没坏处。
There's no downside to trying it.
而且你随时可以推迟去其他大学，或者重新申请，所以你不会切断其他选择。
And you can always defer at some other college or reapply, and so you're not shutting down other options.
对于家长来说，你会发现当孩子喜欢的时候，回到学校就是90%的积极性。
And just to the parent stuff, what you'll see is when your kid loves it, back to school as being 90% motivation.
如果我在跟这里的家长说话，他们的孩子真的很想去。
If I was talking to the parents here, their kid really wants to go.
我给你的建议就是放手让他们去，对吧？
I just give you advice for all the stuff is just let them go do it, right?
哪怕就说这事对他没成，或者怎样，也不是……
Let's even just say it doesn't work out for him and whatever, and it's not...
这会是他们人生中最好的学习经历。
It'll be the best learning experience of their life.
然后他们就会准备好做别的事了。
And they'll be ready to do the other.
而且反着来，其实是没有必要的。
And fighting that the other way just isn't-
那样风险更大，对吧？
That's riskier, isn't it?
不，那样风险大多了。
No, it's much riskier.
确实是，风险大得多。
It is that much riskier, yeah.
我们高中里有很多这样的故事，我可以讲很多。
And we can go into a lot of stories I have of those at our high school level.
我觉得其实，想想我们三个人，还有很多我们认识的人，都跟我们一样，曾经对学校提不起兴趣。
Well, I think that's actually, if you think about the three of us, and there are actually many people we all know who are like us who didn't love school at some point.
那我们最不喜欢的是什么呢？
And what is the thing that we dislike the most?
对我来说，最讨厌的就是被迫去做那些我根本不想做的事情。
And for me, it was that I was being forced to do things that I was not bought into.
我的自主性开始增强了。
My agency had started to grow.
我那时候十三、十四、十五岁，开始觉得皇帝没穿衣服，我开始想：“等等，我的老师其实不会教数学。”
I was 13, 14, 15 years old, and I started to see the emperor had no clothes, and I started to believe like, "Wait a second, my teacher doesn't actually know how to teach math.
这可能不是教数学的最好方法。
This might not be the best way to teach math.
哎呀，糟糕。
Oh, shoot.
所以我现在还得考这个愚蠢的考试？”
So I got to take this stupid test now?"
所以我认为学院和Alpha的教学理念之一，就是围绕学生来设计，以增加你——或者减少你遇到那种叛逆的可能性。
And so I think that one of the pedagogical philosophies of the academy and of Alpha is that you design it around the student to increase the chance that you-- or to decrease the chance that you get that rebellion.
相反，如果学生有认同感，他们更有可能茁壮成长，去做事情。
And instead, if you have buy-in, they're much more likely to thrive and do things.
所以——
And so-
不，我觉得这正是——我跟你说个我自己的故事吧。我上中小学的时候，老是惹麻烦。
No, and I think that's-- And I'll tell the personal story on this, which is, during my K12, I was always in trouble.
我那时候经常逃学。
I was skipping school all the time.
我费了最小的劲才进了斯坦福，然后就没读完。
I did the minimum to get into Stanford, and then I dropped out.
我退学的时候，我爸说了句特别出名的话，还上了福布斯什么的，他说：哎，我儿子是个傻子。
And when I dropped out, my dad had a famous quote that was on Forbes or whatever, "Yo, my son's a moron."
对吧，差不多就这意思。
And sort of, right?
他当时特别不高兴。
And he was not happy.
但文章没写的是，几年之后，情况就变了。
But then the part that didn't get in the article was a couple of years later.
我退学后就开始创业，那感觉特别棒。
So I dropped out, and then I started my company, and it was awesome.
然后突然之间，我一周工作一百个小时，我们睡在桌子底下，简直太疯狂了。
And then all of a sudden, I'm working 100 hours a week, and we're sleeping under the desks, and it's just crazy.
两年后，他说：'我得改变想法了。
And two years later, he's like, "I got to change my mind.
你辍学是我见过最棒的事情。'
This was the greatest thing ever that you dropped out."
他说：'我不得不承认，我之前真的很担心你会变成一个懒惰的小混蛋。'
He's like, "I have to admit, I was really worried that you were going to be a lazy little shit."
因为那才是你学业上的表现，对吧？
Because that was your academic career, right?
他说：'作为父亲，我真的很害怕自己...
And he was like, "As a dad, I was just terrified that I had-
...没做好。'
... done poorly."
然后他说：'现在我明白了，既然你做了自己热爱的事，全情投入，天哪，我早就该支持你辍学了。'
And he's like, "Now I see that now that you're doing what you love, right, and you're fully engaged, God, I should've gotten this done earlier."
我觉得这也是同样的道理。
And I think that's the same thing.
当你有一个学生，比如我们说要建一所他们爱到不想放假的学校——
When you have a student, like when we talk about building a school they love more than vacation-
你是在让他们做自己热爱的事情，对吧？
... you're engaging them around stuff they love, right?
当你这么做的时候，就会发生这样的情况——那些家长说‘我孩子一个月就变了’——
And when you do that, that's what causes-- All the parents who say, "My kid changed in a month-"
那是因为我们让他们做自己想做但很难的事情。
... it's because we have them doing hard things that they want to do.
然后突然之间，确实就变了，而且变得很快。
And all of a sudden, it does change, and it's that quick.
而如果一所学校让你的孩子愿意去，因为他们在那里要做有挑战性的事情——
And having a school where your kid wants to go to it because they're going to be doing hard things-
……
...
这是一件很棒的事，我相信这就是为什么我认为这会大获成功，因为你会吸引所有这些孩子——
it's a great thing, and I believe that's why, one of the reasons why I think this is going to be a home run, because you're going to get all these kids-
他们会说："我知道这很难。"
... who are like, "I know it's hard.
"我想去做这件事。"
I want to go do this.
"我可以在普通学校里混日子——"
I can coast through normal school-
"但我不会选那条路。"
... and I'm not going to pick that path.
"相反——"
Instead-
"..."
...
"我要选这条。"
I'm going to pick this."
而且这会比其他学校都要难，对吧？
And this is going to be harder than all the other schools, right?
在你们做的事情上——
In what you're doing-
那当然。
For sure
在所有这些方面。
... in all of those.
这就是其中的一部分。
And that's part of it.
而且孩子们很喜欢。
And kids love it.
在我们高中，有一个世界学校，学生们会在非洲待一年，做一年的服务。
In our high school, we have a world school where they're spending a year in Africa, a year of service.
他们必须签一份合同，上面写着：“我知道这将是我人生中最艰难的一年。”
And they have to sign a contract that says, "I realize this will be the hardest year of my life."
他们都签了，而且都很喜欢，还超级兴奋地想去。
And they all sign it, and they all love it, and they're super excited to go.
我觉得这差不多就是这个意思。
And I believe this is sort of the equivalent of that.
顺便说一句，提个建议。
By the way, one note.
我在非洲待过不少时间。
I've spent a fair amount of time in Africa.
我会把一些孩子送到印度或斯里兰卡去。
I would send some kids to India or Sri Lanka.
那边会艰苦得多。
It's going to be much harder.
好吧，那我们——行。
There we-- okay.
行，这个会考虑进去的。
Well, that'll be on the list.
这叫做世界学校，所以他们会-
It's called World School, so they're-
不，我在开玩笑
No, I'm just kidding
……要去世界各地。
... going to be going everywhere.
但我很喜欢这个。
But I love that.
我觉得非洲，你做的这件事真是太棒了。
I think Africa, that's such an amazing thing that you're doing.
我们谈到的一个愿望是，我们有一笔津贴。
One of our wishes that we've talked about, we have a stipend.
我们不太谈论这个，但我们已经为每个学生分配了5000美元的旅行预算。
We don't talk about this too much, but we've already allocated $5,000 per student for a travel budget.
我的个人目标是——现在，他们可以决定如何使用——
And my personal goal-- Now, they get to decide how they use-
...旅行预算。
... the travel budget.
我不会强迫——
I'm not going to force-
...任何人做什么。
... anything on anyone.
但我个人的目标是，很多学生能独自去一些国家——
But my personal goal is that a lot of them go solo to countries-
...人均GDP低于两万美元的国家。
... with less than $20,000 GDP per capita.
这个想法很棒。
That's a great idea.
你懂吗？
You know?
我很喜欢这个想法。
I love that.
就是给他们一个开阔的视野。
Just give them perspective.
不不，我完全同意，我觉得那真的很有价值。
No, I totally-- I think that's super valuable.
你会在旅行中更多地了解自己和人生，而且我认为它也能在商业上带来有益的视角。
You learn so much about yourself and about life, and I think that it also will provide perspective that will help in business, of course.
对，绝对是的。
Yeah, definitely.
说到这个，真的很有意思，你提到你父母的故事，让我想起小时候的我们，还有那些在学校里显得“懒”的孩子，他们拿不到4.0，因为他们根本没有投入进去。
It's so funny, going back to this idea of kids who are-- The story that you mentioned of your parents, it reminds me, kids like us when we were younger and others who are "lazy" in school and that they don't get 4.0 because they're just not bought in.
但是一旦他们找到了自己热爱的事情，他们愿意每周工作100个小时。
But when they find the thing, they're willing to put in 100-hour weeks.
这样的人有很多，相反，也有一些人虽然门门拿A，但一旦没有了外在的框架，他们并没有真正培养出内在的动力，或者找到自己真正喜欢的东西的能力。
There are so many people like that, and conversely, there are people on the other side who will get straight As, but once you take away the structure, they haven't really cultivated this inner desire, or this ability to find what they love.
当他们进入职场，那里完全是另一回事，他们就没法适应了。
And when they get to the working world, in which the scale is just remarkably different, they can't operate in the same way.
我特别感慨的是，我们会去创造这样的空间，而且你们从更早的年龄就开始创造这种空间，让年轻人真正去接触他们在乎的东西，更加自我驱动，这真的很强大。
And it just strikes me that we're going to just create the space, and you're creating the space from a much earlier age, where people really get to get in touch with what they care about, be much more self-driven, and yeah, it's just really powerful.
对，没错。
No, correct.
那些是——都有哪些生活技能呢？
Those are-- What are all the life skills?
这就是我们说的全面发展的人。
That's when we talk about a holistic person.
不仅仅是看他们的GPA，成绩可以满分。
It's not just what their GPA was, and you can max, score max on just your grades.
但这并不意味着你在真实世界里能成功——
But that is not something that means you do well-
……在真实世界里。
... in the real world.
我觉得父母其实也明白这一点。
And I think parents actually realize that.
你需要更全面发展。
You need to be more well-rounded.
他们只是没有一条路——
They just don't have a path of-
——去做这件事的路。
... of doing it.
而且我相信，回到重塑大学这件事上，你会向他们展示，这些都是大学课程应该包含的内容，而不是课外的——
And I believe that one of the things, back to reinventing university, you're going to show them, here's all these things that should be part of the university curriculum, not a club after-
——学生可做可不做的社团活动。
... that the kids optionally do.
所以我觉得这会是一件很棒的事。
And so I think that's going to be a great thing.
我觉得雇主们显然也会意识到这一点。
I think employers obviously will realize the same thing.
说实话，雇主们似乎非常认可这一点。
The employers seem very bought in, honestly.
这部分其实没什么问题，因为雇主们都在说，这些毕业生没有……
That part of the whole thing is there's no problem on that pitch, which is, right the number employers are like, these kids coming out don't have-
……所需的技能和能力。
... the skills and capability to do it.
其实他们就是……呃，如果在我创办公司之前，你直接看我这个人……
And it is that they-- Well, if you had just taken me before I actually started my company, and looked at me-
……然后问：“你准备好工作了吗？”
... and said, "Are you ready for a job?"
我当时没准备好。
I wasn't.
但两年后，我在外面做了这个……
But then, two years later, after I was doing this outside-
……项目之后。
... project.
这个……
This-
工作
Job
...非学术项目。
... non-academic project.
然后我就想，"哦，我可能是个挺合适的员工。"
Then I'm like, "Oh, I'm probably a pretty good employee to hire."
有意思的是，其实大多数雇主的问题不在于技能差距，比如你会不会编程、能不能做产品或者设计。
It's funny, actually, because the issue that most employers have is not one of a skills gap in the like, do you know how to code or build products or design?
我们听到最多的其实是人际交往能力、成熟度和系统思维。
What we hear more than anything is people skills, maturity, and systems thinking.
这些才是真正重要的技能。
Those things are the actual skills.
所以，要学这些，唯一的方法就是多和人打交道，去构建复杂的系统。
So the only way to learn those things is to actually just interact with lots of people, have to build complex systems.
而且你得逼自己去面对被拒绝的现实，经历那种没人给你安排好一切、必须自己来规划的成长过程。
And being able to-- Forcing yourself to deal with the reality of rejection and sort of the maturation process of not having things structured for you, but having to structure them yourself.
对，回到AI把智能商品化这个话题，对吧，当你问它的时候，它在这方面打分。
No, back to AI commoditizing intelligence, right, and scoring on this when you can ask it.
你会想，那什么是你想要的人类特质，对吧？
You're like, well, what are the human traits you want, right?
正是这些。
And it is.
是领导力。
It's leadership.
是能够合作——
It's being able to work-
在团队中工作。
... in a team.
是主动性。
It's agency.
是主人翁意识。
It's ownership.
这就是接受反馈，正如你所说的。
It's received feedback, as you say.
所有这些技能，你都可以通过做项目来获得。
All of those skills that you have to have that you can get from doing projects.
但坐在教室里是学不到的。
But you don't get from sitting in class.
关于AI对编程的影响，有很多疑问。
There's a lot of questions around what is AI doing to coding?
AI对数学的影响是什么？
What is AI doing to math?
它又会给物理学带来什么变化？
What's it going to do to physics?
以你现在的认知，如果你今天18岁，兴趣依然如此，并且你在像HAA这样灵活的环境中能设计自己的教育，你会如何根据你对世界发展趋势的判断来思考自己该学什么，以及——
Knowing what you know now, but if you were 18 years old today with your interests, how would you think about if you had the flexibility at something like HAA to kind of design your own education, how would you think about what you would be motivated to learn based on where you see the world going and-
你自己的兴趣会怎么指引你？
... your own interests?
所以我有个想法，就是所谓的“认知卸载”，对吧？
So I sort of have this framework of there's sort of cognitive unload, right?
而AI能让你以十倍的速度往脑子里装知识。
And AI allows you to fill your head with knowledge 10 times faster.
所以这些孩子能比以往更快地成为他们想深耕的领域的专家。
So these kids can become domain experts in their field that they want to faster than ever.
我们高中有一些孩子，正在重写我当年写的那个“时间堆栈”软件，对吧？
I have kids in my high school who are rebuilding the time back software stack that I wrote, right?
他们正在成为学习科学领域的专家，并且能把这些事做起来。
And they're becoming experts in learning science and being able to do this, right?
这在以前的高中阶段根本做不到。
Which wasn't able to be done before in high school.
而“认知加载”这部分，因为速度快了十倍，你花不了太多时间就能完成。
So the cognitive onload part, because it's 10 times faster, you do it, and it doesn't take that long.
所以我一年就能获得相当于硕士学位的知识。
And so I can get the equivalent of a master's in a year.
而这部分也能做到。
And do that part.
但第二部分是，AI给了你成为创造者的机会，对吧？
But then the second part is the AI gives you a chance to be a builder, right?
它给了你超能力，让你能以前所未有的方式去创造。
It gives you superpowers to build like no one else.
我相信，将来你们大学里的这些孩子会发现：‘我想创造点东西，而且我会比以往任何时候都学得更快，无论需要什么……’
And I believe that's the kids who are going to be at your university, is they're going to realize, "I want to build something, and I'm going to learn faster than I ever have whatever-
……前提条件。”
... prereq."
就像今年夏天的实习生一样，对吧？
Just like the interns this summer were doing it, right?
他们在做研究，对吧？
They were doing research, right?
他们学了很多东西，但他们的目标是为了创造。
Learning all this stuff, but they were doing it to build.
而且我相信，如果你跟阿尔法高中的高中生聊聊，他们绝对不觉得AI和未来很悲观。
And I believe just, if you talk to our high school kids at Alpha High, they're definitely not doomers about AI and the future.
他们会觉得，"你们大人没戏了。"
They're like, "You adults are cooked."
就像在说，"我们要来了，而且我们还有超能力。"
Like, "We're coming for you, and we have superpowers."
他们确实如此。
And they do.
确实。
They do.
这些孩子——
These kids-
他们真的挺厉害。
They really do.
不，这些孩子在开发这些应用，我觉得，两年后，我完全预料到大部分学习软件都会由学生编写。
No, these kids who are building these apps, I'm like, two years from now, I absolutely expect most learning software is going to be written by students.
大多数学生会从同龄人写的学习软件中学到东西，对吧？
Most students are going to learn from learning software written by their peers, right?
因为这种软件会融入所有学习科学的概念和这些东西，而且会做得更有趣。
Because it'll embed all the learning science concepts, all these things, and they will make it much more engaging.
而且这方面我们已经有大量数据了。
And we have plenty of data around that already.
这里要特别提一下奥斯汀，他做了我们的AP课程，编了一套特别棒的教材，然后所有上了这门课的孩子AP考试都得了5分。
Shout out to Austin, who built our AP curriculum, and he built this crazy great curriculum, and all our kids who took it got a five on their APs.
他还做了一个世界历史的课程。
And he built a world history one.
但他做这个是因为他先做了一个地理猜谜游戏，他把——
But he did it because he built this geo-guessing game where he took-
所有世界历史事件都拿来做了一个S级排名，还配了一个很毒舌的AI。
... all these world history events and did an S-tier ranking with a snarky AI.
总之，我随便提这些名词，其实我自己也不知道它们具体是什么意思。
Anyway, all these things that I'm throwing those words out because I don't actually know what they mean.
但每个孩子都很投入，很喜欢，也都完成了。
But every kid was engaged and loved it and did it.
然后我就想，好吧，我和那帮成年老团队永远也做不出那样的东西。
And I'm like, "Okay, me and the old adult team are never going to be able to build that, ever."
所以我觉得，这些孩子将来能做到的，就是去创造未来。
And so I think that's what these kids are going to be able to do, is they're going to go build the future.
而人工智能给了他们从大学一年级就开始创造未来的能力。
And AI gives them the capability to build the future and start freshman year of college.
埃里克，让我试着回答你的问题。我觉得，纠结于该学什么专业才能在未来不被淘汰，这本身就不是个正确的问题。
Just to take a stab at your question, Erik, I think the question of what field should I study so that I can be sure that I'm resilient to the future is not the right question.
真正的问题应该是，你对什么领域感兴趣？
So the question is, what field am I interested in?
而且我很有信心，无论你在哪个领域，只要你能熟练运用AI，专业其实无所谓。
And I think I have enough faith that if you're AI native in any field, it does not matter.
很多人担心编程或者数学。
A lot of people are concerned about coding or math.
你看，AI 原生的数学家和程序员会带来全新的编程和数学方式。
Look, there's going to be a whole new type of coding and math that happens with the AI-native mathematicians.
只是那些还在用粉笔黑板和纸笔的老派数学家们，可能会被淘汰。
It's just that the old school ones who are still doing chalkboard and pencil and paper are cooked.
但那些热爱数学的新一代学生，他们会做得非常好。
But the new students who love math, they're going to do just fine.
事实上，他们会去做一些我们以前想都不敢想的事情。
In fact, they're going to go and do things none of us ever thought possible.
所以，会有一个全新的数学家时代，他们会取得成功。
And so there's going to be a whole new era of mathematicians that are going to be successful.
所以我觉得，顺便说一句，这也是我们在 HAA 里重点考察的一点，我们真的不想要那种“我要确保自己对未来有抵抗力”的人。
So I think, and that's actually, by the way, something that we're trying to screen for a lot at HAA, which is that we really don't want someone who's like, "I want to make sure I'm resilient to the future."
这是一种非常防御性的处世方式。
It's a very defensive way of approaching the world.
我们希望你主动出击。
And we want you to be on offense.
我们希望你这样说："你对什么感兴趣？"
We want you to say, "What are you interested in?
"我就去把它搞明白。"
I'm going to go figure it out."
举个例子，我在教育领域工作。
As an example, I work in education.
过去15到20年，教育领域并不是最赚钱的创业赛道，对吧？
Education has not been the most lucrative founder field of the last 15, 20 years, right?
但碰巧的是，过去15年里，教育领域成功的案例大概有四个，其中一个就是我做的。
It just so happens that I built one of like four wins in education in the last 15 years.
真的，一点不夸张。
Like, literally.
那是个很差的市场。
It is a terrible market.
确实，从历史上看，那一直是个很差的市场。
It's been historically a terrible market.
我们要改变这一切。
We're going to change that.
我们绝对会改变这一切。
We absolutely are going to change that.
但我依然非常开心和自豪，因为这就是我在做的事情，而且我仍然觉得自己知道该怎么运作——
But I'm still super happy and proud that this is what I work on, and I still feel like I know how to operate-
知道怎么达到那些做AI或者做SaaS的人的水平、那种质量，你懂吧。
... at the level and quality of someone who's doing something in AI or doing something in SaaS or whatever.
我选了一个领域。
I've chosen a field.
我很喜欢。
I love it.
我的生活很健康，也很充实。
I have a very healthy and fulfilling life.
我不是亿万富翁，但我过得不错。
I'm not a billionaire, but I'm doing well.
而且我觉得，任何人在任何领域能做到那个水平，如果他们是领域里的顶尖1%，那就没问题。
And, I think anyone who gets to that level in any field, if they're in the top 1% of their field, it's going to be fine.
我喜欢你说的，我确实非常认同我们必须去做的，回到育儿这个话题，对吧？
And I love what you said, which is I actually believe very much what we have to do with, back to raising kids, right?
培养出品格优秀的孩子，为未来做准备。
And building high character kids for the future.
你说的这点不是被动的，对吧？
Your point of this isn't passive, right?
这又回到世界会变成什么样，以及它会强加在我身上。
This back to what is going to happen to the world, and it's going to be imposed on me.
其实不是，我们要去创造这个世界，对吧？
It's like, no, we're going to go make the world, right?
这些孩子正是创造它的人，对吧？
These kids are the ones who are creating it, right?
你可以对发生的事情持被动态度，对吧？
And you can have the passive view of what happens, right?
哎呀，到时候就糟糕了。
And oops, it's going to be bad.
或者你也可以选择另一种态度，就是"不，我来建设它"，对吧？
Or you can be the other, which is, "No, I'm building it," right?
我们需要培养一代建设者，他们能以乐观的心态看待这一切，对吧？
And we need to create a generation of builders who look at this optimistically, right?
我们的孩子都读过《理性乐观派》，对吧？
All our kids read "Rational Optimist," right?
他们会坐在那里说："是的，我能掌控这一切。"
And they sit there and say, "Yes, I'm in control of it."
我们需要建设自己的未来。
And we need to build our future.
我们需要培养下一代，让我们的孩子从大学毕业。
And we need to raise the next generation and have our kids coming out of university.
我看这个世界，心里想："我希望从大学毕业的这一代年轻人，能够对AI充满乐观并具备能力，然后说：'我们要创造一个美好的未来。'"
I look at the world, and I'm like, "I want this next generation coming out of university to be the ones who are optimistically capable with AI and saying, 'We're going to build an awesome future.'"
这就是我们作为教育工作者的职责，去建设那个世界——
That's what our job as educators are, is to go build that world-
……并确保我们的大学也能做到这一点。
... and make sure that our universities do that.
乔，这次对话太棒了。
Joe, this was an amazing conversation.
我最后想到的是，你其实在为一所高中学生创办一所创业学校，对吧，叫‘创始人学校’。
I think the last thing that I'm thinking about is you're actually building an entrepreneurial school, right, for high school students called Founder School.
你能跟我们聊聊你为什么创办它，它是怎么运作的，以及为什么你认为它是个值得借鉴的好模式？
Can you tell us a little bit about why you built it, how it works, and why you think it's a good model for us to be inspired by?
当然。
Sure.
回到技能上来，我们的人生技能组合之一就是创业和金融素养。
Back to skills, one of our life skill stack is entrepreneurship and financial literacy.
实际上，当我们审视未来的工作时，我们有一个非常坚定的观点。
We actually have a very strong point of view of when we look at the jobs of the future.
因为AI，财富500强公司会变小，但我相信这会带来创业的大爆发，对吧？
Big Fortune 500 comps are going to be smaller because of AI, but I believe it's going to lead to an explosion of entrepreneurship, right?
AI给了创业者巨大的机会，而且这是我们根本不教的东西。
AI gives entrepreneurs this great opportunity, and- It's something we just don't teach.
我们就是不教孩子们这些，所以我们来教。
We just don't teach kids this, so we teach it.
我们有一套课程，从幼儿园就开始了。
We have a stack starting in kindergarten.
我们真的教每个幼儿园小朋友怎么赚钱、存钱、花钱、投资和捐赠。
We literally teach every kindergartner how to earn and save, spend, invest, donate.
打好这个基础。
Get that foundational going.
我们用一种叫“阿尔法”的货币来教他们这些。
We have a currency called Alphas to start teaching them this.
但回到主题，创业不是一道闪电，说发生就发生的。
But back to it, entrepreneurship is not a bolt of lightning, and it just happens.
这是一套可以教给别人的技能。
It's a set of skills that you can teach people.
所以我们就教他们。
And so we teach them.
但到了高中阶段，我们有高中创始人项目，这算是我们针对这个领域的顶尖专业学校。
But by the time you get to high school, we have our high school founders, which is sort of our peak specialized school for that.
这是给那些想在高中时期就创业的孩子们的。
This is for kids who want to spend their high school building businesses.
疯狂的是，家长们都不相信我们承诺：你在高中期间创办一家公司，赚到一百万美元的利润，否则我们全额退还你的学费。
The part that's crazy that parents don't believe is we guarantee that you'll start a business that will earn a million dollars of profit while you're in high school, or we give you all your tuition back.
哦。
Oh.
我们坚信这些技能是可以反复、可靠地传授的，所以我可以据此建一家公司。
That we absolutely believe that these are skills that can be taught repeatedly and reliably, where I actually can build a business on that.
所以它实际上八月份就开学了。
And so it actually opened in August.
实际上，从Alpha High的学生中，我们已经有一些人在过去四年里成功建立了自己的企业。
We actually have, from Alpha High kids, people who've been able to build businesses over the last four years.
所以我们有实际案例，但现在这是一所专门为此设立的学校。
So we have data points, but this is now a specialized school for that.
而且这个体系是有阶梯的。
And it's scaffolded.
他们进来后，必须先赚到100美元，还要掌握一系列技能。
They come in, and they have to earn $100, and there's a set of skills they have to learn.
然后是1000美元，接着1万、10万，最后是一百万美元。
Then $1,000, then $10,000, $100,000, and a million dollars.
我们才开学几个月，这些孩子已经一路飞奔了。
And we're only a couple of months in to where the process is, and kids are speedrunning it.
我们简直想说，‘嘿，他们第一年就能挣到一百万。’
And we're like, "Okay, they're going to earn a million dollars in the first year."
我的课程都跟不上他们了——
I'm out of curriculum-
我的天哪
Oh my God
……在他们大一的时候。
... in their freshman.
然后我就想，"好吧。"
And I'm like, "Okay, well."
然后孩子们就说，"好吧，那我之后干脆就做一个更大的。"
And the kids are like, "Okay, well, I'm going to then obviously just do a bigger one after that."
但那个概念，他们能不能做到？
But that concept of can they do this?
你能把它做起来吗？
Can you build it?
而且我觉得很大程度上，这背后其实就是一整套技能。
And I believe a lot of it is just there's a set of skills around it.
还有人际关系和社交网络。
There's also the relationships and networking.
我觉得这就是你们在大学层面带来的东西之一，我们甚至想把它带到高中层面——
And I think that's one of the things that I believe that you guys are bringing at the university level that we're trying to bring even down to the high school level-
也就是人脉网络和人际关系的建立。
... is just networking, relationship-building.
在人脉这方面，我一直觉得斯坦福的魔力之一就是那些大人物都会来，然后你见到他们，会想：哦，原来也就是个普通人嘛。
On the networking side, a lot of it for kids, I always thought a lot of the magic of Stanford was you had all these luminaries come, and then you'd meet them, and you'd be like, "Oh, this is like a normal human."
对。
Yes.
他们当然很厉害，但也就是普通人，这会让你觉得你也可以做到——
They're obviously really impressive, but they're just like a normal human, and it makes it accessible to you-
让你能对自己说：嗯，我也能做到。
... to be able to say, "Well, I can do that, too."
尤其是你年轻气盛、特别自大的时候。
Especially when you're young and dumb and super arrogant.
你就会想：哦，我也行。
You're like, "Oh, I could do that."
这确实是其中一部分。
And that is part of it.
我们在高中阶段也在做同样的事情，让他们能够建立人脉关系。
And we're doing the same thing here at the high school level, where they're able to build up relationships.
实际上，有个故事是，我们一个14岁的孩子直接给詹森打了陌生电话。
Actually, one of the stories is one of our 14-year-olds cold called Jensen.
真的，他当时就是在做陌生电话拜访，然后他真的打了过去。
Literally, he was having a cold call thing, and he literally called him.
詹森回电了，结果发现对方是个小孩。
And Jensen returned the call and realized it's a kid.
他给了孩子90秒时间做陈述，最后还给了非常好的反馈。
Gave him 90 seconds for his pitch, and then in the end, gave him really good feedback.
哦。
Oh.
简单总结的话，他的反馈基本上是：“你问我的这些资格问题，其实你可以通过研究或者问我组织里的其他人来了解，而你却把你宝贵的机会用在了我这里。”
Which basically, if I had to summarize, was, "All these qualification questions you're asking me, you could have done research or asked other people in my organization about it, and you just used your bullet with me.
你应该提前做好准备的，那样效果会好很多，而不是浪费这个机会来给我打电话。
And you should have done your prep work, and it would have been much better instead of wasting it by calling me.
所以勇敢值得表扬，但准备工作完全不及格。
So kudos for aggressiveness, but mm, you get an F on call prep."
你知道吗，那个孩子？
Okay, that kid?
他发了推特说这件事。
He's tweeting about it.
整个学校都觉得这是那个孩子人生中最棒的一课。
Everybody in the school, it's like the best learning lesson in that kid's life.
成功的大人愿意投资于下一代。
Successful adults are willing to invest in the next generation.
我相信他们在HAA能建立的人脉和关系将会非常棒，也更有价值，这是普通大学、传统大学做不到的。
And I believe that kind of networking and relationship building that they're going to get at HAA is just going to be awesome and more valuable, and what normal universities, traditional universities don't do.
说到这个，Eric可是真正的专家，我可以这么说。
It's something that Eric is a true expert at, if I may say so myself.
而且你帮我们凝聚了这个庞大的网络，汇聚了来自各个领域的优秀人才，来帮助HAA的学生们取得成功。
And you have helped us galvanize this really large network of amazing people from all disciplines to come and help the HAA students succeed.
我觉得你在Founders School做的事情也很酷，因为我认识不少演讲者，他们都来Founders School投入时间，这对高中或大学阶段的学生来说，能有机会接触到这些资源，简直是无比宝贵的。
And I think it's really cool what you're doing with Founders School as well, because I actually know a bunch of people who are speakers who are coming in and investing time at Founders School, and it's just completely invaluable for a student who's in high school or college level to have the opportunity to get access to that.
不，对我来说，这才是最有价值的事情，而你们特意把它放在工作的核心位置，这真的很重要。
No. Back to, for me, that's the most valuable thing, and you guys are putting it intentionally at the center of what you guys do, and that's really important.
几周前，马克斯·列夫琴就坐在这个位子上，他谈到自己是如何受到启发，敢于想得那么大、那么有野心，因为他和埃隆共事过，也和里德·霍夫曼、大卫·萨克斯合作过，他看到他们经历了起起落落。
Max Levchin was in this chair a few weeks ago, and he was talking about how he was inspired to think so big and so ambitiously because he worked with Elon, he worked with Reid Hoffman, with David Sacks, and he saw that they sort of went through the ups and downs.
他们其实和他一样。
They were just like him.
是的，希望我们邀请到黄仁勋、山姆·奥特曼、萨蒂亚这些传奇人物，来和孩子们分享他们的战斗故事，分享他们的起伏，也能……
And yeah, hopefully us having Jensen and Sam Altman and Satya and all these legends come and share war stories with the kids, share their ups and downs, will also-
……提升他们的抱负。
... elevate their ambitions as well.
确实如此。
It does.
而且他也提到了一点，就是这些孩子的雄心是你为他们设定的。
And that point he also made, which is your ambition is set for kids.
我记得好像是泰勒·考恩说的，'老师能做的最重要的事情，就是提升学生对自己未来的期望。'
I think it was Tyler Cowen who's like, "The number one thing a teacher can do is raise a student's ambition for themselves."
我们在 Alpha 现在也一直在努力做到这一点。
We try to live that at Alpha these days.
完全同意。
Absolutely.
而且我相信，你坐在这里的时候，这一点很明显——就是你们在设计上刻意这么做的。
And I believe that's very much when you sit here is that it's intentionally in your guys' design-
……无论是你们接触到的人，还是你们打造的文化，都是在提升他们对人生可能性的期望。
... of the people you're getting, the culture you're building, that you're going to be raising their ambition for what they can do in life.
我觉得这一点真的太重要了。
And I think that's just so important.
嗯，最后我想说一句，我们一直在聊 K-12 和大学之间的重大差异，但有一个共同点是——你提到了 1910 年。
Well, last thing I'll say from my end, we've been talking about some major differences between K through 12 and college, but one similarity is that, you mentioned 1910.
在过去一百年里，这种模式并没有太大的颠覆。
In the last 100 years, there hasn't been a ton of disruption in the model.
也没有太多新的主要参与者，尤其是在大学方面。
There hasn't been a ton of major new entrants, certainly on the college side.
你们在K-12和大学里做的，以及我们所有人正在做的，就是提升教育中可能性的雄心。
And what you guys are doing in K through 12 and college, and we're all doing, is elevating the ambition of what's possible in education.
你们是过去几年乃至十多年里这项工作的先驱。
And you guys are pioneers of the work that you've been doing the last few years and decade-plus.
所以我很受鼓舞，能成为你们各自旅程的一部分，是的，谢谢。
So I'm inspired to be part of your respective journeys, and yeah, thank you.
嗯，孩子们真的很棒。
Well, kids are awesome.
他们能做的远超我们所有人的预期。
They can do way more than all of us expect.
我相信，从你们那里出来的孩子，你们会把这件事提升到一个新的高度。
And I believe that coming out of yours, you're going to just raise that to the next level.
很荣幸能和你们一起做这件事。
Proud to do this with you all.
是的，谢谢。
Yeah, thank you.
不过能参加真是太好了。
It's great to attend though.
谢谢。
Thank you.
感谢收听本期a16z播客。
Thanks for listening to this episode of the a16z Podcast.
如果你喜欢这期节目，记得点赞、评论、订阅，给我们留下评分或评论，并且分享给你的朋友和家人。
If you liked this episode, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, leave us a rating or a review, and share it with your friends and family.
更多节目，请前往YouTube、Apple播客和Spotify收看或收听。
For more episodes, go to YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.
在X上关注我们，@a16z，并订阅我们的Substack，地址是a16z.substack.com。
Follow us on X, @a16z, and subscribe to our Substack at a16z.substack.com.
再次感谢收听，我们下期再见。
Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode.
提醒一下，这里的内容仅供参考。
As a reminder, the content here is for informational purposes only.
这些内容不应被视为法律、商业、税务或投资建议，也不应用于评估任何投资或证券，也不针对a16z任何基金的投资人或潜在投资人。
It should not be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice, or be used to evaluate any investment or security, and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund.
请注意，a16z及其关联公司可能也持有本播客中讨论的公司的投资。
Please note that a16z and its affiliates may also maintain investments in the companies discussed in this podcast.
更多详情，包括我们投资的链接，请参见a16z.com/disclosures。
For more details, including a link to our investments, please see a16z.com/disclosures.
关于 Bayt 播客
Bayt 提供中文+原文双语音频和字幕，帮助你打破语言障碍，轻松听懂全球优质播客。