稳定币、人工智能代理与全球银行业的未来

Jeeves 的目标是打造一家能在多个国家运营的全球性商业银行。

The goal with Jeeves is really to build a global business bank that can function in multiple countries.

稳定币是一种实实在在的日常体验。

Stablecoins is a lived experience.

这不是什么理论上的东西。

It's not something that's a theory.

比如在阿根廷，有百分之六十的人口都在使用稳定币。

Like, in Argentina, 60% of the population use stablecoins.

我们的收入增长了十倍。

Our revenue has grown 10 x.

我们的交易量增长了八倍。

Our volume has grown eight x.

如果没有人工智能，这一切根本不可能实现。

This just wouldn't be possible without AI.

未来，货币将会变得可编程，而我们正处在这一切发生的交汇点上。

Money is gonna become programmable, and hopefully, we're at that nexus of all of this happening.

很多金融公司起步时，因为产品太多，通常会先从规模小的客户做起，陪着他们成长，等积累了信誉，再慢慢接触大客户。

Often when companies start in financial services, just because there's so much product to build, the tendency is to start with the smaller guys, grow with them, and then eventually earn the credibility to get with the bigger guys.

但你们反其道而行之。

You took the opposite approach.

没错。

Yeah.

你们是怎么在这么短的时间内，就让那些规模较大的公司愿意和你们合作的？

How did you become relevant to relatively large companies fairly quickly in the journey?

我们现在的风控团队只有四个人，却处理着二十到三十亿美元的交易总额。

Our underwriting team today is four people, and that team is doing 2 to 3,000,000,000 in TPV.

这种事在两年半前根本不可能做到。

That just wouldn't have been possible two and a half years ago.

换作以前，光是启动这个规模的业务，就得配十五个人。

You need 15 people just to get that off the ground.

这就是现在最大的变化。

That's what's changed.

如果你不拥抱AI，根本没法走下去。

If you are not AI pilled, you're not going to make it.

大多数金融基础设施仍然按国家各自为政。

Most financial infrastructure is still fragmented country by country.

不同的银行、支付通道、货币和合规体系，让全球企业很难高效运营，尤其是在新兴市场。

Different banks, payment rails, currencies, and compliance systems make it difficult for global businesses to operate efficiently, especially across emerging markets.

Jeeves 正在用稳定币和人工智能重新构建这套系统。

Jeeves is trying to rebuild that stack using stablecoins and AI.

它最初只是拉美一家企业信用卡公司，如今已发展成覆盖支付、资金管理和费用控制的全球金融操作系统，服务25个国家。

What started as a corporate card company in Latin America has evolved into a broader financial operating system spanning payments, treasury, and expense management across 25 countries.

a16z的安吉拉·斯特兰奇对话Jeeves创始人兼首席执行官迪利普·塔兹蒙，探讨稳定币、人工智能与全球金融基础设施的建设。

A16z's Angela Strange speaks with Jeeves founder and CEO, Dileep Thazhmon, about stablecoins AI and building global financial infrastructure.

迪利普，欢迎来到我们的播客。

Dileep, welcome to the podcast.

谢谢你们邀请我。

Thanks for having me.

我特别兴奋。

I'm super excited.

在深入聊Jeeves之前，我觉得很多听众还不太了解你的经历，其实挺有意思的。

Before we dive into Jeeves, I don't think a lot of listeners know your backstory, which is pretty interesting.

你是在国际环境中长大的。

You grew up internationally.

你有技术背景。

You've got a technical background.

你曾经创办过一家公司。

You started another company.

后来你把它卖了一亿多美元。

You sold it for over a $100,000,000

那是很久以前的事了。

before Long time ago.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

也许你跟我们聊聊你的经历，以及这些是怎么让你创办了Jeeves的？

Maybe tell us tell us about you and how that led you to start Jeeves.

我其实出生在尼日利亚。

So I was actually born in Nigeria.

我小时候在四个不同的大洲生活过。

So I grew up in we are four different continents, actually.

我们从尼日利亚搬到了卡塔尔的多哈。

So we moved from Nigeria to Doha, Qatar.

我大部分童年都是在那里度过的。

So that's where I spent most of my childhood.

那时候的多哈，简直就只有一个骆驼的小镇。

And this was when Doha was, like, a one camel town.

现在看看那个机场，大得不得了，可当年呢，就两个小摊位，飞机不是A就是B，上去哪架就哪架，那就是机场了。

I mean, it's funny looking at the airport now, which is massive, and it used to be an airport with, like, two stalls and it's plane A or plane B, you get on one of them, and that was the airport.

所以那时候特别小。

So it's very small.

然后大概二十五年前，我们搬到了奥兰多外边的佛罗里达。

And then we moved to Florida outside of Orlando probably about twenty five years ago.

所以我现在做的这家公司，Jeeves，其实也是一家全球化的公司。

And so what I've kind of noticed is the company that I'm working on now, Jeeves, is also a global company.

这简直就像是我童年经历的某种体现——我从小在这么多地方生活过。

So it's almost like a manifestation of my childhood and the fact that I grew up in all of these different places.

后来我去学了工程。

I then went to school for engineering.

我其实拿了两个工程学位，现在回头看，多亏了AI，我才真正能放手去动手做东西。

So I actually had two engineering degrees, which now I feel a lot more unleashed with all of the stuff with AI because I can start building.

但有个挺有意思的事，我硕士论文是用遗传算法模拟金融市场。

But the funny story is my master's thesis was actually on using genetic algorithms to mimic money markets.

那其实就是早期的LLM——你定个目标，它自己生成测试案例，再打分排序，简直不可思议。

That was basically LLMs, which was basically you'd have an end goal, and it would come up with test cases, rank them, And it's just wild.

那是2006年的事了，二十年后看到AI发展到今天这个地步，真是让人感慨。

This was in 2006, and it's amazing seeing that full circle twenty years later with everything that's happening with AI.

那之后，我创办了一家公司。

After that, I started a company.

我当时做的是营销自动化，之前还在斯坦福商学院待过。

I was in the marketing automation space, and right before that, was at Stanford GSB.

那家公司叫Power Inbox，后来卖了大约一亿零六百万美元，之后我就创办了Jeeves。

And that company was Power Inbox, which we sold for about $106,000,000 and then I started Jeeves.

所以到这会儿，我要是不自己创业，简直就没公司敢要我。

So basically, at this point, if I don't start a company, I'm unemployable.

不过话说回来，这段经历真的让我学到了太多东西。

So but, yeah, it's been a great experience learning a lot of different things.

我觉得Jeeves最吸引我的地方，就是它的学习曲线陡得吓人。

I think what I love about Jeeves most is it's just such a steep learning curve.

有一天你还在处理巴西的银行业务。

One day you're doing banking in Brazil.

第二天，你就得变成稳定币方面的专家。

Next day, you have to be an expert on stablecoin.

如果你受不了这种学习节奏，真的会累得够呛。

And if you don't like the learning curve, it can be so exhausting.

但如果你喜欢，那就特别刺激。

But if you like it, it's very exciting.

我觉得这正是我每天工作最吸引我的地方。

And I I that's the biggest thing that I find interesting about the day to day.

太厉害了。

Amazing.

接下来我们可能会聊聊背后的故事。

And so we're gonna maybe we're gonna talk through the backstory.

不过先说清楚，你现在公司已经成立五年了。

But just to ground us, we're you're five years into the company.

那Jeeves现在是个什么样子？

What is Jeeves today?

Jeeves 是一个为全球企业打造的原生稳定币金融操作系统。

So Jeeves is a stablecoin native financial operating system for global enterprises.

我们主要有两款产品。

We have two core products.

第一款是费用管理。

The first one is expense management.

我们向企业客户提供企业信用卡，目前覆盖25个国家。

So we sell corporate cards that we offer to our companies, and we can do that in 25 countries.

我们的核心市场是巴西、哥伦比亚和墨西哥。

Our core markets are Brazil, Colombia, Mexico.

第二款产品则聚焦在支付领域。

And then our second product is on the payment side.

我们支持本地支付和跨境支付。

So we do full local payments and international payments.

现在，我们的跨境支付中超过百分之五十到六十直接通过稳定币结算，这在过去一年中推动了我们的快速增长。

Today, our international payments, more than fifty, sixty percent settles on directly on stablecoin, and that's been powering a lot of the growth that we've seen in the last year.

太棒了。

Amazing.

好的。

Alright.

我觉得要理解Jeeves，最有趣的方式就是看你的护城河。

So I think one of the one of the most interesting ways to understand Jeeves is through your moats.

没错。

Yeah.

现在这些已经成了护城河。

And now they're moats.

我之前觉得这些都是巨大的挑战。

I would say they were massive challenges Yeah.

要建立公司并实现规模化，确实不容易。

To building the company and getting scale.

而现在，我们可以把这些归类为竞争优势了。

And and now we can classify them in the realm of defensibility.

是的

Yeah.

有两个主要方面，分别是基础设施和监管。

So two big ones, sort of infrastructure and regulation.

是的

Yeah.

我先说基础设施，这是我个人最感兴趣的，因为它看起来就像不起眼的管道工程。

So I'll start with infrastructure, which is my personal favorite because it looks like unsexy plumbing.

是的

Yeah.

但正是这些基础设施的选择，决定了你能提供哪些产品，以及如何实现差异化。

But then the decisions there are really what drive the products you're able to offer, the differentiation.

我觉得你在拉美起步时面临的额外挑战是，跟美国不一样，那里没有现成的即服务解决方案。

And I think where you started in Latin America, an added challenge is unlike The US, there's no as a service Yep.

针对这些各个部分都没有。

For all of these different pieces.

所以你能给我们讲讲，你到底拼出了个什么东西吗？

So so maybe talk us through, like, what did you splice together?

你到底建了些什么？

What did you build?

然后，这又是怎么帮你实现突破的？

And then, like, how does that enable you to drive?

这是个很好的观点。

So, it's a really good point.

我们内部有个说法，叫‘难度才有护城河’。

So, internally, we have this saying which we say, Difficulty is very defensible.

正因为难，才真正有壁垒。

Because it's difficult, it's actually defensible.

从第一天起，我们就做了很多难事。

And we've done a lot of difficult things from day one.

举个例子，我们的核心知识产权，也就是所谓的主打产品，并不是面向用户的那一层，而是中间的那层。

And so, just to give you an example, our core IP, what we consider our core product, so to speak, is not the front facing product, it's the layer in between.

我们接入了五六十家不同的合作伙伴和供应商，把所有这些信息都抽象到中间层。

We connect to fifty, sixty different partners, different vendors, and we abstract all of that information into the central layer.

我们管这叫内容管理系统。

We call it a CMS.

我来给你举个例子，你就明白了。

And so just to give you an idea of what it could do.

比如说，我们在25个国家都维护着自己的账本。

So as an example, we maintain our own ledger in 25 countries.

这事儿特别难，因为你得跨货币、跨法规来做。

And that is really hard to do because you have to do that across currencies, across effects.

我们能在24小时内向25个国家出具对账单。

We issue statements in 25 countries in less than twenty four hours.

这件事我们花了整整18个月才搞定，这正是我们的核心能力——因为账本直接掌握在我们手里。

That took us eighteen months to figure out, and that's our core skill set because then the ledger sits directly with us.

对。

Mhmm.

我们直接接入支付网络的核心系统。

And we sit directly on the card on stream.

在发卡业务上，我们和别的公司不一样的地方是，我们是万事达的完整主成员。

I think a big difference where we play on the card side is we're full principal members, for instance, with Mastercard.

所以我们发的卡上会写明‘由Jeeves墨西哥发行’、‘由Jeeves巴西发行’。

And so when we issue the card, it says issued by Jeeves Mexico, issued by Jeeves Brazil.

中间没有任何银行参与。

There's no bank in between.

这显然需要相当高的技术能力才能运作，我们也是慢慢积累经验才做到的。

And so that obviously requires a certain level of sophistication to be able to run, and we've kind of learned that over time of how to build that.

但我们在每个运营国家，都会尽可能贴近底层基础设施。

But we try to go very, very close to the infrastructure stack in all of these countries that we play.

我再举一个发卡方面的例子，这可能帮你更好理解我们的思路。

And I'll give one more example on the card side because I think this might open up how we think about it.

说到发卡，我觉得主要有四个组成部分。

When I think about card issuing, I see there's four components.

所以，获客是漏斗顶端，然后是处理方，负责监管和合规的项目管理方，最后是维萨或万事达提供的发卡BIN，让你拥有发行16位卡号的授权。

So you have the top of the funnel, customer acquisition, you have the processor, you have the program manager for regulation and compliance, and then you have the issuing BIN from Visa or Mastercard that gives you that license to issue the 16 digits.

我们做的前三块，都放在自己的技术栈里。

What we do, the first three, that sits on our own stack.

即使我们有不同的合作伙伴，比如从墨西哥扩展到巴西，也只需要换一下BIN就行了。

Even though we have different partners, if we were going from Mexico to Brazil, we only have to change the bin.

如果你明天想进军印度尼西亚，也只需要换BIN。

If you tomorrow wanted to launch Indonesia, we only have to change the bin.

现在有了稳定币，连BIN都不用换了，一个BIN就能按不同国家划分使用。

And now with stablecoin, even the bin doesn't have to change because you get one bin and you carve it up by different countries.

所以，现在做这个领域特别有前景。

So it's a super exciting time to be building.

我们之所以能在这波稳定币浪潮中加速推进，是因为过去三年我们硬是把自研的技术栈给搭起来了。

And part of the reason we're seeing this acceleration on stablecoin is because we did the hard work of building our own infrastructure stack for three years.

对。

Yep.

那对于不太了解基础设施细节的人来说，比如NewBank这样的公司，为什么用巴西的BIN和美国的BIN会有区别呢？

And so for people who are maybe less in the weeds of infrastructure, like, why would it matter to someone like NewBank that you have a Brazilian BIN versus, you know, a US BIN?

是的。

Yeah.

关键在于客户的体验非常顺畅。

So I think the value is that the customer experience is very seamless.

我们提供的一项服务就是，无论你在巴西、墨西哥还是哥伦比亚登录Jeeves，界面都一模一样。

So one of the things that we sell is if you log in to Jeeves in Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, it looks the same.

你习惯看到同样的卡片出现在同样的位置，但除非你直接掌控底层系统，否则根本做不到这一点。

And you're used to seeing the same cards in the same places, and you can't do that unless you sit directly on the rail.

对。

Mhmm.

我们刚开始的时候——我想你可能还记得——其实发的是美国的卡片。

And so when we started, which I think you might remember, we actually were shipping US cards.

我记得。

Remember.

是的。

Yes.

我们一开始发的是美国卡片，因为还没准备好。

We were shipping US cards because we didn't have the setup yet.

这需要时间。

It takes time.

申请牌照得花时间。

It takes time to get the licenses.

还得花时间对接支付处理商，方方面面都得慢慢来。

It takes time to get the processors, all of those things.

现在，我们在每个运营国家都拥有本地发卡和本地牌照。

Today, in every country we operate in, we have local issuing and local licenses.

这样一来，像Hot Mart、汉堡王这样的公司就能获得无缝的体验。

And then what that gives us is the experience for companies like a Hot Mart, for a Burger King, it's seamless.

什么叫无缝呢？就是不用为三个不同国家的系统，分别培训三次登录方式。

It's seamless in the sense that you don't have to train the team three times for three different logins for three different countries.

看起来完全一模一样。

It looks exactly the same.

但除非你直接接入支付系统，否则做不到这一点。

And you can't do that unless you sit on the rail.

没错。

Yep.

再往下说，我们的交易通过率非常高，因为我们直接使用自己的收单通道。

And then just kinda building on that as well, our acceptance is super high because we are sitting directly with our own bin.

在墨西哥、哥伦比亚和巴西，我们都有专门为Jeeves设立的独立收单通道。

In Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, we have our own bin that's just for Jeeves.

其次，由于我们亲自处理身份验证，还能实现更强大的卡片控制功能。

And then the second part of that is we can also build in much better card controls because, again, we do the actual authentication.

用户刷卡时，我们直接决定通过还是拒绝。

When you swipe it, we say yes or no.

此外，我们还和Sardine这样的合作伙伴一起，做了一些欺诈检测的工作。

We also do some of the fraud detection components, obviously, with partners like Sardine.

对。

Mhmm.

但这些全部都由我们直接掌控。

But all of that sits directly with us.

明白。

Okay.

所以是基础设施。

So infrastructure.

下一个关键但通常很繁琐的话题是监管。

The next critical but often tedious topic is regulation.

是的。

Yeah.

咱们已经在这行干了五年左右了，不妨聊聊这个过程。

So maybe talk us through we've been at this for Yeah.

到现在差不多五年了。

Sort of five years at this point.

我觉得你们已经拿到了不少许可证。

I think you've got a lot of your licenses.

你们还有别的路线图吗？那边都建了些什么？

You've got another roadmap, what have you built there?

对。

Yeah.

我们目前直接向中型企业和大型企业销售产品。

So where we sit, we sell directly to mid market and enterprise companies.

我们并不面向长尾客户销售。

So we do not really sell to the long tail.

我提到这一点，是因为如果没有合适的许可证，我们很难赢得这些公司的信任。

The reason that I bring that up is it's really hard for us to gain the trust of these companies without the right licenses.

我们在墨西哥是受监管的实体，也已经申请了墨西哥的资金转移许可证。

So we are a regulated entity in Mexico, we've filed for our money movement license in Mexico as well.

在巴西，我们正在申请成为一家完整的存款银行，这方面的牌照门槛非常高。但如果我们拿不到这个牌照，首先，客户的完整业务流程就无法打通——我们或许能提供某种版本的卡片或支付服务，但要想真正成为全球性的企业银行、金融操作系统，就必须拥有账户体系。

In Brazil, we're actually filing to be a full deposit taking bank, so it's a very high bar for a license, but if we don't have this license, one, again, we don't have the full customer flow, we can provide some version of the cards, can provide some version of the payments, but to really be kind of the global business bank, enterprise bank, financial operating system, you need to own accounts well.

要拥有账户，就必须有这些牌照。

And to own accounts, you need these licenses.

所以我们一直把牌照看作核心的护城河，因为我们要打造的产品，没有牌照根本做不出来。

So we have always looked at licenses as core defensible moat, as in the product we want to build cannot be built without licenses.

而牌照的问题在于，它需要时间。

And so the issue with licenses is it takes time.

所以我在思考如何构建业务时，重点是怎么样能快速进入市场，抢占大量份额。

And so part of the way I think about building is how do you get into market quickly and get a lot of market share.

然后我们团队每天都在一层一层地搭建这些牌照的体系。

And then you just have a team that just every day we're just building layers and layers of this license.

这样客户的体验就能尽量做到无缝衔接。

And so that way the customer experience hopefully is seamless.

他们看到的是一样的东西，但后台的产品体验好了很多，因为牌照现在直接掌握在我们手里。

They see the same thing, but on the back end, the product is a lot better because now the licenses sit directly with us.

另外，牌照和基础设施还有一个非常重要的作用，就是能帮我们提升利润率。

And then the second part that is really important with licenses and with infrastructure is it helps us to expand the margin.

我们的利润率从两年前的百分之四十，现在已经提升到百分之八十以上。

Our margin has expanded from forty percent two years ago to north of 80% right now.

如果你不掌控基础设施，也没有监管许可，是不可能做到这一点的。只有自己掌握全部，才能拿走绝大部分利润，再分给合作伙伴。

You cannot do that unless you own the infrastructure and unless you have the regulatory coverage because then you get the whole lion's share and then you pay it out to partners.

所以，拥有这些条件确实有很多好处。

So that's the positive side of having all of these things.

但这条路真的很难走。

But it's really hard.

非常难，必须有一支团队，他们就是这么做的，我们一个国家一个国家地推进。

It's really hard, and you need a team, that's what they're doing, and we go country by country.

即使到现在，我觉得我们还得再拿下四到五个地区的许可证，才能达到我们想要的目标。

And even now, I would say we probably need to get four or five more licenses in the regions we're in to get to the stage that we wanna get to.

你刚才提到，你们更偏向企业客户，我想进一步聊聊这个。

So I wanna go to you mentioned you're a little bit more enterprise Yeah.

相比之下，小公司的情况往往不同，尤其是刚进入金融服务领域时，因为要开发的产品实在太多了。

Versus smaller company, where I think often when companies start in financial services, just because there's so much product to build Yeah.

大家通常会先从中小企业入手。

The tendency is to start with smaller guys Yeah.

先陪着他们成长，等积累了信誉，再慢慢接触大公司。

Grow with them, and then eventually earn the credibility to get with the bigger guys.

你们却走了相反的路。

You took the opposite approach.

那你们是怎么在早期就迅速赢得大公司的信任的？

And so how did you become relevant to relatively large companies fairly quickly in the journey?

说来有趣，我们一开始是什么都做，什么客户都接。

So it's funny because we started with a little bit of doing everything for everybody.

对。

Mhmm.

到了2023年，情况逼着我们不得不聚焦。

And then, you know, 2023 was kind of the year that forced focus.

我们发现，从小企业身上赚不到多少收入，但还得花同样的精力去支持他们。

And we were realizing that we were just not making that much money in terms of revenue from smaller businesses, and we needed the same support for them.

我们公司非常精简。

And we're a very lean company.

现在的人手比两年前还少，但收入增长了大约十倍。

We have less people today than we did two years ago and our revenue has grown about 10x.

我想说的是，我们的模式根本撑不起上万家小企业。

And so what I'm trying to get to is we're not built to sustain 10,000 small businesses.

这完全不是我们的路子。

That's just not our model.

我们专注的是中型到大型企业，先卖一个产品给他们，再交叉销售另外六款，提升客户留存率，也提高和这些公司的毛利。

What we're built for is these real mid market enterprise companies that we sell one product to and then we cross sell six others, and we increase the retention, we increase the gross profit that we have with these companies.

一开始我们啥都做，但到了2023年，我们不得不做出一个艰难的决定：到底谁才是产品真正契合的用户？我们要打造的到底是什么产品？

And so it was a little bit of we did everything, and then we made this really hard decision in '23 to say, okay, which is the audience that really resonates with the product and what's the product we're looking to build?

那时候我们确实得狠心放弃一些小客户，但要不是2023年做了这个决定，我们今天根本走不到这一步。

And at that point we did have to make the hard call to debank some of the smaller businesses that we had, but I don't think we'd be here today if we didn't make that hard call in 2023.

从那以后，我们才真正聚焦在自己提供的东西上。

And that started putting the focus on what are we offering.

在2023年之前，我们根本没有支付产品。

So before 2023, we did not have a payments product.

当你向企业推销时，支付功能是他们业务中极其重要的一部分。

When you go sell this to enterprise, payments is a huge, huge part of their business.

事实上，卡片交易量其实远小于支付交易量。

In fact, cards volume is actually much smaller than payments volume.

因为从钱包份额来看，应付账款的规模远大于企业信用卡支出。

Because if you look at share of wallet, AP, accounts payable, is a much bigger box than corporate card spend.

我们最初是从卡片和各种信贷产品入手的，但后来把这些全都停掉了。

And so we started with cards, we started with these versions of credit products, and so we turned all of that off.

我们开始问自己：我们的核心到底是什么？

We were like, what's our focus?

我们的目标是企业，是中型市场。

It's enterprise, it's mid markets.

他们真正需要的是什么？

What do they need?

他们需要的是账户和支付服务，而我们要确保只服务这一类客户——具体来说，如果一家公司的年收入低于一千万雷亚尔，或者高于一亿雷亚尔，我们就不会接纳他们。我们只针对这两个区间内的企业。

They need accounts, they need payments, and then how do we make sure that we only sell into that subset in the sense of we have requirements where if you're below a certain revenue size, and that goes from somewhere between 10,000,000 real all the way up to a 100,000,000 real, that those are the two segments we have, we just wouldn't onboard you.

我们确实不能接纳你。

We can't onboard you.

这个决定很难做，因为这也把像Y Combinator这样的公司排除在外了，而他们一直给予我们极大的支持。

And and so that was it's a hard decision because it also then focuses on companies like Y Combinator where we came from, and they've been incredibly supportive.

所以我们得想办法，看看能不能为他们开个特例。

And we've had to find ways of like, okay, can we, like, squeeze that in?

毕竟我们想服务的就是这类公司，只是他们起步时规模通常比较小。

Because those are the companies we wanna build in, but they tend to be smaller to start.

是的。

Yeah.

也许可以为Y Combinator设个特殊通道。

So maybe a special YC exception here.

说得有道理。

Fair point.

有道理。

Fair point.

也许最好的方式是拿NewBank这家公司来理解Jeeves的产品体系，它是巴西的。

Maybe just a good way to understand understand Jeeves' product suite is to take a company like NewBank, which is Brazil Yeah.

墨西哥、哥伦比亚。

Mexico, Colombia.

你们一开始是靠银行卡切入的。

You landed with cards.

对。

Yeah.

你能简单说说你们是怎么切入市场的，之后又是怎么发展的吗？

Do you wanna just walk through how you land with this and then where does it go?

我觉得我们的产品体系有意思的地方在于，虽然是全球化的，但完全本地化。

So so I I think what's interesting about our product suite is we are global, but we are fully localized.

我的意思是，我们花了两年时间才搞懂怎么在巴西卖产品，之前一直进不去，但今年第三季度巴西将成为我们最大的市场，真正开始突破是在2024年9月。

So what I mean is it took us two years to figure out how to sell in Brazil, and a big reason we were not selling in Brazil, and Brazil's actually gonna be our biggest market this quarter, and it really started turning in September '24.

原因是我们开始对产品进行本地化改造。

And the reason was we started localizing the product.

我们不仅把它翻译成葡萄牙语，更重要的是，让它贴合当地人实际使用产品的习惯。

And so we made it obviously in Portuguese, but it's more than that, it's tying it into the actual way people use the product.

巴西的金融生态系统非常成熟，我觉得在某些方面甚至比美国还先进。

Brazil has an incredibly sophisticated financial ecosystem, I would say in some sense, even more sophisticated than The US.

这里根本不用现金。

There's no cash.

所有交易都是数字化的。

Everything is digitized.

交易都是实时完成的。

It's instant.

事实上，当他们来美国，发现ACH转账要两天，简直觉得不可思议。

In fact, like when they come to The US and ACH takes two days, it's almost

他们可能会问：你们这儿卖东西怎么这么慢？

like, what do you I'm guys here for sale.

没错。

Exactly.

所以我们花了挺长时间才搞清楚怎么本地化这个产品。

And so it took us a while to figure out how to localize the product.

说到你问的那些公司怎么用我们，关键在于我们通常先推卡片，然后再推出第二、第三类产品。

And the reason think I that's important to your question of like how do these companies use us, we usually start with the card, and then we sell second and third products.

第二、第三类产品会根据我们进入的国家有所不同。

So second and third products could be different depending on the country that we're in.

在墨西哥和哥伦比亚，通常会延伸到我们的支付产品 Jeeves Pay。

So in Mexico and Colombia, usually that that moves into Jeeves Pay, which is our payment product.

在巴西，我们的旅行类产品做得特别好。

In Brazil, we actually have a very strong travel product.

如果你想想巴西，那里最让人担心的就是欺诈问题。

So if you think about Brazil, a big concern there is fraud.

巴西的欺诈率是全球最高的之一。

It has one of the highest fraud rates in the world.

所以我们有一些客户来找我们，说：如果你们的卡片能自动停用，也就是一次性使用的那种，我们就会用它来处理所有交易。

And so we had customers that would come to us and say, hey, if you have cards that are automatically turning themselves off, meaning they're single use, we would use that for all transactions.

于是我们开始尝试，干脆开发一个卡片API，提供给这些不同的公司使用。

And so we started playing around with, Okay, let's build out a cards API that now we provide to these different companies.

说到Nubank，你们主要涉及企业支出和差旅这两块。

And so when you think about Nubank, you have corporate spend and then you have travel.

所以我们主要就是帮他们在这两个领域做支持。

So those are the two areas that we kind of work with them on.

差旅这块在巴西特别强，但在其他国家可能就没那么突出。

And that travel component is strong in Brazil, but might not be as strong in other countries.

我慢慢说到重点了：我们的核心产品通常是卡片。

So I'm kind of getting to the point where we have this strong primary product, which is usually the card.

然后第二类产品会根据地区不同而变化，而且通常是本地化定制的。

Then the secondary product kind of changes depending on the region that we're in, and that tends to be localized.

我们很幸运，能够领投你们的A轮融资。

So we were fortunate enough to to get to lead your series a.

是的

Yeah.

每个投资都有其当下成立的理由。

And every investment has a why now.

对。

Yeah.

当初我们开始做Jeeves时，背后的原因我很清楚：我在拉美拥有一整套广泛的投资组合。

And the why now at Jeeves when you started, which I felt pretty strongly is I had a a broad portfolio in Latin America.

这些公司账上都有上千万美元，却连企业信用卡都办不下来。

All of had tens of millions of dollars in their bank account, and they could not get corporate cards.

是的。

Yeah.

就算能办到，他们也只能选择那些连美国老牌公司都显得技术落后的服务商。

And if they could, they'd bid from incumbents that made US incumbents look like the most tech

支持型公司，在

support companies in

整个星球。

the planet.

对吧？

Right?

所以那时候这个理由确实很充分。

So so that was a good why now then.

我觉得现在又有两个更强的理由了。

I think now you've got two more which are even stronger.

是的。

Yeah.

人工智能和稳定币。

AI and stablecoins.

没错。

Yeah.

在我们深入探讨Jeeves的具体情况之前，如果你看看拉美地区和你所涉及的国家，我觉得这些趋势在那里比在美国还要明显。

And so before we maybe dive into specifically for Jeeves, as you think about the region of LatAm and the countries that you're in, like, those tailwinds, I would argue, are even stronger there than in The US.

对。

Yeah.

那我们先从稳定币聊起吧，因为在拉美，稳定币已经是一种实实在在的生活体验了。

So stablecoin let's start with that one because I I I think in Latin America, stablecoins is a lived experience.

它不是那种停留在理论层面的东西。

It's not something that's a theory.

比如在阿根廷，有60%的人口都在使用稳定币。

Like, in Argentina, 60% of the population use stablecoins.

这不需要专门培训人们怎么使用。

That's not something you have to train people how to use.

所以在美国，大家可能会想，我为什么要用稳定币呢，因为我

And so in The US, it's a little more like, okay, why would I use stablecoins because I

有

have a

稳定的美元货币。

stable US currency.

太棒了。

Amazing.

这简直完美。

That's fantastic.

很多国家可没这个条件。

A lot of countries don't have that.

你能把本地货币几乎瞬间兑换成这种以美元计价的代币，这一点吸引力巨大。

And so the fact that you have this dollar denominated coin that you can almost instantly transfer your local currency to is a huge, huge selling point.

我们后来逐渐意识到——尤其是《天才法案》通过之后，谈论稳定币变得更容易被接受了——我们现有的很多基础设施其实可以直接适配到稳定币上。

And so what we started realizing, and again, a big part of this was the Genius Act passing, which started making it more kosher to talk through stablecoin, was that a lot of the infrastructure we had could now be adapted towards stablecoin.

回到你之前的问题，我们能这么做，是因为我们自己维护着一套账本。

And going back to your question earlier, the reason we can do that is because, again, we maintain our own ledger.

所以我们不需要为USDC和美元分别维护两套账本。

So we don't have to have two separate ledgers, one for USDC, one for USD.

所有东西都汇聚到同一个系统里。

It all feeds into the same thing.

所以一通过《天才法案》，我就觉得这事有点是创始人主导的。

And so as soon as the Genius Act passed, it was one of those things where I would say it was a little bit founder led.

我当时就想，这真的发生了？

I was just like, this is happening?

我的意思是，这

Like, this is

不是稳定币，是稳定币，

not Stablecoins, stablecoins,

进入了创始人模式。

founder mode.

把整个系统都搭起来。

Build this whole thing.

事实上，直到今天，你去问我们团队就知道了。

And in fact, even today, I mean, you can ask our our team.

我们每天开三次站会，不是每天，是每周，而且我都亲自主持。

We have three stand ups every day, not every day, every week, and I run them directly.

是的

Yeah.

因为在我看来，把所有业务都转到稳定币上至关重要，我认为这绝对是未来的方向。

Because to me, it's that important that we move everything onto stablecoin because I see that as absolutely the future.

尤其是在拉美地区，这里是全球稳定币使用最频繁的市场之一，人们早就熟悉这种用法，产品体验也因此大幅提升。

And specifically for LATAM, which is one of the highest corridors of stablecoin usage, it just becomes something that people know how to use and the product becomes a lot better.

我觉得关于稳定币的另一个有趣之处在于，当我们向企业客户推销时，其实并不直接提‘稳定币’这个词。

I think the second part on stablecoin that I think is very interesting is when we sell it to these enterprises, we actually don't pitch stablecoin directly.

我们把它叫做 Jeeves Instant Pay。

We actually pitch it as Jeeves Instant Pay.

但背后用的确实是稳定币技术。

But the inside is stablecoin.

这样做的关键是，当你跟企业里的财务总监沟通时，他们对技术本身并不太关心。

And the reason that's important is when you talk to a CFO at an enterprise company, they don't care as much on the technology side.

他们真正关心的是：我能信任你吗？

They care, can I trust you?

钱能按时到账吗？

Is the money gonna show up?

还有，这个方案的成本比我现在用的更划算吗？

And then is this something where the cost is better than what I have right now?

如果他们觉得钱不会到账，技术再厉害也没用，毕竟最后倒霉的可能是他们自己。

And if they don't think the money's gonna show up, it doesn't matter what the technology is because at the end of the day, they're gonna get probably fired.

所以我们得先赢得他们的信任，几乎就是靠Jeeves这个品牌来保证：你已经用我们处理过这么多事了，这次也信我们一回，我们一定确保钱准时到账。

And so we have to win that trust and we almost kind of guarantee it with the Jeeves brand of like, hey, you use us for all these other things, trust us on this, and we'll make sure it shows up.

这就是我们在当地卖产品的方式，也是我们业务量快速增长的关键原因。

And that's how we kind of sell the product in region, that's been a huge driver of the volume that we're seeing.

我们的交易总额从两年前的四亿美元，涨到了现在的三十多亿，今年很可能突破六十亿。

And our TPV has increased from about 400,000,000 two years ago to north of 3,000,000,000 right now, and we're probably gonna touch about 6,000,000,000 this year.

增长幅度非常大，而其中很大一部分原因，是因为我们背后用了稳定币作为基础设施。

So it's significantly increased, and a big part of that is because we have the stablecoin as the infrastructure in between.

对。

Yep.

所以，也许可以对比一下，你们接下来还有一些更创新的产品要推出。

So so maybe contrast the and you've got some more innovative products coming out.

但先说说传统的跨境支付，对比一下法币通道和稳定币通道，因为你们之前两种都在做。

But to start with the sort of classic cross border, contrast Fiat rails versus stablecoin rails because you were serving both

客户。

customers.

想象一下，大概一年半前，我们还没推出稳定币的时候，如果你想从墨西哥向美国付款，通常得经过两家不同的代理银行。

So if you think about just where we were maybe eighteen months ago before we had stablecoin and you wanted to do a payment between Mexico and The US, you would usually have to have two different correspondent banks in between.

你在墨西哥发起付款，我们还得确保在美国有合作银行能处理这笔交易，因为在美国，你必须清楚资金的来源。

You'd send the payment in Mexico, we'd have to make sure that we had a bank partner that could handle it in The US because in The US you need to know the source of the funds as well.

我们当时得靠两家不同的银行接力，把一千比索转过去，最后在美国变成五十美元。

We basically had two different bank partners that had to do a handoff to transfer, let's say, thousand pesos and get it to show up for $50 in The US.

现在的情况是，在墨西哥，用户可以直接给我们转一千比索。

Now what happens is in Mexico, can send us a thousand pesos.

我们在墨西哥本地就能收齐这笔款项。

We collect it on the ground in Mexico.

我们一收到款项，就会立即释放USDC，资金瞬间到账，然后我们再在美国这边完成支付。

As soon as we collect it, we release USDC, and that settles instantly, and then we pay out on The US side.

最慢的环节其实是美国这边的付款，因为在墨西哥这边是即时结算的，而美国的ACH系统虽然还是需要一天，但已经快太多了。

The longest leg is actually The US payout because in Mexico, settles instantly, and the ACH, again, still takes one day, but it's much, much, much faster.

对于终端用户来说，我们并不出售稳定币。

And now for the end user, we don't sell the stablecoin.

我们卖的是应付账款服务。

We sell accounts payable.

我们卖的是你的发票对账服务。

We sell your invoices are reconciled.

你只要提供税号，我们就能自动下载你的发票，帮你发起国际支付。

We sell, you know, put in your tax ID, we'll download your invoices and send international payments.

这才是我们真正卖的东西。

That's what we sell.

恰好现在支撑这套服务的底层基础设施变好了，以前要一两天，现在一个小时就能搞定。

It just so happens that the infrastructure that it runs on is now a lot better because we can do that in one hour instead of one day or two days.

所以我们是这么看待这个问题的：我们给终端用户选择权。

And so that's the way we kinda look at it, which is we give the end user the choice.

如果他们想用我们的SWIFT通道，获得那种MT103之类的确认信息，我们也能做到。

If they want to use our Swift Rails and get the, you know, MT one zero three kind of kind of confirmation, we can do that.

我们完全可以为您安排。

We can do that for you.

只是时间会久一点，但这是您的选择。

It just will take longer, but that's your choice.

如果您想用更快的版本，也就是您说的Jeeves Instant Pay，直接在产品里就能选。

You wanna use a fast forward version which you call Jeeves Instant Pay, you can do that in the product.

只要点一下下拉菜单，选中它就行。

You just have to click a drop down and select that.

所以我们提供了这个选择。

So we give you that choice.

对。

Yeah.