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这个行业里，或者说全世界最重要的技能，就是你能在市场之前发现机会的能力。
The most important skill in this industry, or perhaps in the world, is your ability to identify things before the market.
世界上有很多我们想认识的人，他们也想认识我们。
There are so many people in the world who we want to meet who also want to meet us.
这其实就是一个信息问题。
And it's just an information problem.
你觉得哪个更让你印象深刻：一个上过斯坦福的人，还是一个被帕特里克·科里森、埃隆·马斯克、马克·安德森关注的人？
What's more impressive to you, someone who went to Stanford or someone who is followed by Patrick Collison, Elon Musk, Mark Andreessen?
硅谷很多人对于公开背书的人选标准都很高。
A lot of people in Silicon Valley have a pretty high bar for who they're willing to publicly endorse.
我们做的很多事情就是找到优秀的人，把他们介绍给我们的公司，或者让他们进入a16z的圈子。
A lot of what we do is finding awesome people and connecting them to our companies, otherwise getting them in the a16z network.
这样我们就能真正扩展整个网络、所有价值和信任，以及那种随着时间积累和传递的声誉。
And it allows us to really extend all that network and all that value and all that trust, and really that reputation that transfers and builds over time.
我很喜欢Naval的一句话：“做到足够优秀，让大家都愿意通过你来做生意。”
There's this Naval quote I love, "Be so good that people do business through you."
事实上，如果我给两个人背书，他们可能会因此认识并合作，而我甚至不需要知道这件事。
In fact, if I cosign two people, they might be able to meet and otherwise build something in a way that I enabled without even having to know about.
但要在正确的时间匹配需求和技能总是很难。
But it's always hard to match the needs and the skills at exactly the right time.
我们做的就是这件事……
What we've enabled is this...
硅谷一些最重要的机会始于一个简单的信号。
Some of the most important opportunities in Silicon Valley start with a simple signal.
你信任的人相信一个你还不认识的人。
Someone you trust believes in someone you don't know yet.
在本期节目中，我与Josh Elman、Olivia Moore和David Booth一起介绍Cosign，这是一个围绕职业声誉打造的新产品。
In this episode, I sit down with Josh Elman, Olivia Moore, and David Booth to introduce Cosign, a new product built around professional reputation.
我们讨论了为什么那些信任你的人有时比简历更有说服力，背书如何帮助在人才变得明显之前发现他们，以及为什么随着AI让其他一切变得更容易生成，这种人类信号可能变得更加宝贵。
We talk about why those who believe in you can sometimes say more than a resume, how endorsements can help surface great people before they're obvious, and why that human signal could become even more valuable as AI makes everything else easier to generate.
我们还聊到了我们从LinkedIn、X和AngelList中学到的东西，以及当通常存在于私下对话和短暂社交帖子中的声誉变得更加可见和持久时会发生什么。
We also get into what we've learned from LinkedIn, X, and AngelList, and what happens when the reputation that normally lives in private conversations and fleeting social posts becomes more visible and durable.
我们非常激动地宣布推出Cosign，这是一个围绕创业社区职业声誉的产品，实际上就是试图成为最全面的公司和人才目录。
We're super excited to announce Cosign, a product that is around professional reputation for the startup community, and really just trying to be the most comprehensive directory of companies and people.
我想先讲一个故事，是我的朋友David Perell告诉我的，他说：“我的Twitter账号比我的大学教育更有价值。”
And I want to start with a story, which is my friend David Perell told me, he said, "My Twitter account is more valuable to me than my college education."
尽管我花了25万美元，不管多少，我的Twitter给我的职业生涯和个人生活带来的价值都更大。
Even though I paid a quarter million, whatever it is, my Twitter has given me more value to my career, and also personally.
当然，我们刚刚创办了自己的学校，所以我们非常支持高等教育，但我认为这个故事很深刻，因为Twitter长期以来一直是免费的。
Now, we of course, just launched our own school, so we are big fans of higher education, but I thought the story was profound because, of course, Twitter's been free for so long.
他真正想说的是，大学是教育、人脉和文凭的结合体。
And what he got behind it is, of course, college is a bundle of education, network, and credential.
我觉得——
And I think-
还有社交生活。
And social life.
对。
Yes.
是的，当然。
Yes, of course.
对，有些东西在推特上确实很难重现。
Yeah, some of that is hard to recreate on Twitter.
但没错，就是这样。
But yeah, exactly.
所以说到教育，你是通过对话来学习的。
And so the education, you learn from having conversations.
至于人脉，当然，你认识人，发现人，这就像是一个证明，证明他们有没有趣，幽不幽默，等等。
The network, of course, you meet people, you discover people, it's proof of work, of if they're interesting, if they're funny, et cetera.
如果他们做出了很酷的东西，你也能发现他们。
If they build something cool, you can discover them.
但我觉得信誉这块特别有意思，因为这里有个思想实验。
But I think the credential thing is really interesting because here's a thought experiment.
你觉得哪个更让你印象深刻：一个上过斯坦福的人，还是一个被帕特里克·科里森、埃隆·马斯克、马克·安德森等人关注的人？
What's more impressive to you, someone who went to Stanford or someone who is followed by Patrick Collison, Elon Musk, Mark Andreessen, et cetera?
我觉得大多数人会说是后者。
I think most people would say the latter.
所以这就是一种点对点的信誉认证。
And so this kind of peer-to-peer credential.
虽然人们也经常明确这么做，但这本质上就是一种背书。
And so what that is implicitly, although people often also do this explicitly, is a cosign.
这是一种认可，表示这个人值得关注。
It's an endorsement that this person is worth tracking.
这是一个公开的信号，表明这个人值得追随。
It's a public signal that this person is worth following.
我们认为还有很多其他方式来表达这种信号，并创造这些人获得的这种声誉上的好处，而这其实是他们无意中产生的副产品，他们只是想读他们写的东西。
And we think there are lots of other ways to express that signal and create this kind of reputational benefit that these people get, which is really the exhaust of this person's not even trying to give them reputational benefit, they're just trying to read what they write.
这个副产品就是这种背书。
And the exhaust is this endorsement.
而有了这种背书，如果你被这些人关注，你的机会就来了。
And this endorsement, if you're followed by these people, now your doors are open.
大家也想看你写的东西。
People want to also read what you say.
他们想和你合作。
They want to work with you.
他们想投资你。
They want to invest in you.
他们想让你加入他们的团队。
They want to have you part of their team.
而且，这不仅对接收方有好处，对给予方也有好处，因为如果你第一个发现某个人，那正是硅谷的运作方式。
And also, there's benefit to the receiver, but there's also benefit to the giver, too, because if you're the first person to discover someone, well, it's how Silicon Valley operates.
你能更快地招到他们，更快地给他们投资，硅谷的酷之处在于你永远不知道下一个大人物会是谁，有时候他们才18岁，或者来自一个不知名的学校。
You're going to be able to hire them quicker, you'll be able to fund them quicker, and the cool thing about Silicon Valley is you don't know who the next big person is going to be always, and sometimes they're 18 or you'll come from an A brand school.
所以我们都在某种程度上竞争，看谁能比别人更早发现人才。
And so we're all in this little bit of a race to discover talent before anybody else.
Zach Frankel做得非常出色，对吧？
And Zach Frankel's done an amazing job, right?
很多人都做得很好，建立了发现人才的名声，所以他们得到的好处是，人才会想：'哦，我能被他们捧红。'
So many people have done amazing, of building a reputation for discovering people, and so the benefit they get is talent thinks, "Oh, I can get king made by them."
如果Josh Elman或Olivia投资我的公司，那对市场来说就是一个信号。
If Josh Elman or Olivia invest in my company, that's a signal to the market.
天使投资或者风险投资公司的投资，是表达背书或信号的一种方式，但很多人不是创始人，也不是投资人，所以我们认为还有很多其他方式来表达这种信号。
And angel investing or just investing from venture firm, that's one way to express a cosign or a signal, but a lot of people aren't founders, and a lot of people aren't investors, and so we think there are lots of other ways to express this signal.
我很好奇，你在打造Cosign的过程中，你希望从平台上获得什么样的背书？
Really curious, as you've been building Cosign, what are the kinds of endorsements you hope to get from the platform?
所以我们希望每个个人资料上至少有三个。
So we want on every profile to have at least three.
一个是谁塑造了你的职业生涯。
One is who shaped your career.
哇。
Wow.
因为我们认为这种导师经济，就是硅谷运转的基石。
Because we think this sort of mentor economy, this is what Silicon Valley runs on.
如果Josh Elman是我的导师，那就意味着他在投入……这其实是真的。
If Josh Elman is my mentor, that means that he is putting... Which is true, actually.
谢谢。
Thank you.
碰巧是真的。
Just happens to be true.
他说我是个年轻人，Josh花了很多时间在我身上，这对其他人来说是一个信号，表明我也值得他们花时间，因为如果你尊重Josh，你也会因为这种关联而尊重我。
Said I was a young person, Josh spent a bunch of time with me, and that's a signal to other people that I'm worth other people spending time with, too, because if you respect Josh, you respect me by association.
而且，这对你也有好处，能早点发现人才，被人知道，如果你帮助别人，人们就想和你合作。
And it's also, again, the benefit to you to discover talent early, to be known, people want to work with you if you help them.
所以第一个是塑造了我职业生涯的人。
So one has shaped my career.
第二个是愿意在任何地方一起工作，或者一起并肩作战的人，因为正如你那天晚上说的，从现有的平台上很难看出你真正和谁一起并肩作战。
Two is would work with anywhere or in the trenches with, because it's hard to tell from existing platforms, as you were saying the other night, who are you really in the trenches with?
你真正和谁建立了深厚的联系？
Who have you really built bonds with?
你愿意和谁一起并肩作战？
Who would you go to war with?
无论你在做什么，你都愿意和谁一起工作？
Who would you, no matter what you're doing, you'd want to work with them?
这比“我关注了他们”这种信号要具体得多，因为关注可能出于各种原因。
That's a much more granular signal than do I follow them, which could be any number of things.
第三点是值得关注的人。
And then third is person to watch.
你觉得谁将来会真正崭露头角，脱颖而出？
Who do you think is going to really be emergent, ascend it?
我们还会对这些进行排序，所以平台才刚刚起步。
And we rank order these, too, so platform's just started.
大部分内容都是公平竞争的，但就像建立优秀的投资者形象一样，这需要很多年，但之后你就会因此获得认可。
Most of it's fair game, but in the same way to build a great investor profile, it takes many years, but then you've got the credit for doing so.
我们认为你也可以围绕人来做到这一点。
We think you can do that around people, too.
所以你可以说，嘿，比如说你刚起步的时候，我觉得奥利维亚以后会是个大人物。
So you could say, hey, let's say when you're just starting in your career, I think Olivia's going to be one of the greats.
我觉得她是个值得关注的人。
I think she's a person to watch.
说起来挺有意思的，七年前我做过一个实验，给几百个人发了邮件，你肯定是其中之一，我问他们谁值得关注。
It's actually funny, I did this experiment seven years ago where I emailed a few hundred people, you were definitely one of them, and I asked them for their person to watch.
我今天刚查了一下。
I was just checking today.
其中一个是拉塞尔·卡普兰，他现在是Cognition的总裁，当时他是特斯拉的22岁工程师。
One of them was Russell Kaplan, who's now the president at Cognition, and he was a 22-year-old engineer at Tesla.
所以这里面其实也有信号。
And so there's actually signal in that, too.
所以这些就是其中一些例子。
So those are some of the ones.
我们也希望人们能对公司做同样的事情。
We're also excited for people to do it for companies, too.
你觉得哪些公司现在还在种子阶段，但将来会变得很厉害？
What are the companies that you think at seed but are going to be great?
因为，当然，如果你有能力的话，你可以用钱来表达你的信心，但不是每个人都是投资者。
Because, of course, if you're able to, you can express your conviction with your money, but not everyone's an investor.
这几乎就像是一种幻想投资或者社会资本投资。
This is almost like fantasy investing or social capital investing.
我喜欢这个想法。
I love this idea.
我觉得我一直都有这种感觉，但在我投资了将近十年之后，我每周、每天、每个月都越来越相信这一点。
I feel like I have long felt this, but as I have invested now for almost a decade, I believe it more and more every week, every day, every month.
硅谷最有价值的数据就是谁对谁有信心，以及谁能给你一个关于一个人的真实评价，这对很多决策都很重要。
The most valuable data in all of Silicon Valley is who has conviction in who, and who can give you a real read on a person for so many decisions.
你投资谁？
Who do you invest in?
你雇佣谁？
Who do you hire?
你会加入哪家公司？
What company do you join?
现在信息不对称的情况非常严重。
And there's such information asymmetry right now.
我们每天的工作就是投资，我们会联系别人问：‘嘿，你认识跟这个人共事过的人吗？’
Our job, investing every day, we are pinging people saying, "Hey, do you know anyone who worked with this person?"
我们每天都这么做，但我觉得我们还是得费很大劲才能找到那个信号。
And we do it every day, and we still, I would say, have to work really hard to find that signal.
确实如此。
Absolutely.
那么，一个正在考虑五份创业公司工作邀请的人，怎么能获得那种程度的信息呢？
And so how can someone who is maybe evaluating between five startup job offers get that level of them?
根本不可能，尤其是如果你是个初级工程师，而这可能决定你是加入一家飞速发展的公司，还是一家表现平平的公司。
You just can't, especially if you're an entry-level engineer, and yet that could be the difference between joining a complete rocket ship and a company that isn't doing as well.
我知道关于谁说了谁什么的数据必须谨慎处理，但我认为这会是巨大的机会，能极大地改善人们的生活和职业。
And I know the data has to be handled carefully around who says what about who, but I think it will be, and there's a massive opportunity to add so much value to people's lives and careers.
聊聊这个吧，因为你经常思考人才发现的问题——
Talk a bit about, because you think a lot about talent discovery-
是的
Yes
……聊聊你做的那个通讯稿，我觉得挺有意思的。
... talk about the newsletter you did, because I think it's interesting.
内容真的很棒。
It's incredible stuff.
我的双胞胎妹妹贾斯汀也在安德森，她在我们的基础设施团队工作。
So my twin sister, Justine, also works here at Andreessen on our infrastructure team.
我们俩做风投差不多有十年了。
We have both been in venture for basically a decade now.
在我们第一份风投工作的时候，我们创办了一个通讯稿，每周日发，大概持续了六年半到七年吧。
And at our very first venture role, we started a newsletter that we ran every Sunday for, I think six and a half or seven years.
哇。
Wow.
我是订阅者。
I'm a subscriber.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
基本上就是汇总初创公司的招聘信息，我们的想法是，我们俩都上过斯坦福。
It was basically just aggregating startup job postings, and the thesis was, we both went to Stanford.
我们在斯坦福办了一个创业孵化器，但即使这样，在进入风投公司之前，我们也没办法区分这些初创公司和创始人，谁靠谱，谁不靠谱，谁最让人兴奋。
We ran a startup incubator at Stanford, and still, before we were working at a venture firm, we had no way to differentiate between all these startups and founders of who is legitimate, who's not, who's the most exciting.
所以我们想，"好吧，我们现在有一些内部消息了。"
And so we were like, "Okay, we have some inside information now.
让我们整理一份我们认为值得年轻人加入的公司名单。"
Let's curate a list of the companies that we think are worth joining for young people."
这建立了一个真正的社区，因为我觉得人们很欣赏这一点，因为在硅谷之外你得不到这些信息。
And it built up a real community because I think people appreciated it, because you can't get that information outside of Silicon Valley.
我们在校园里有一个侦察员网络，他们会读这份名单，其中一些人现在已经成为安德森投资的创始人。
We had a network of scouts on campuses that read it, and some of those people are now founders that Andreessen has invested in.
他们现在都在经营着很棒的公司，身处很棒的地方。
They're off running fantastic companies and in fantastic places.
所以那只是这个网络不太能扩展的版本——
So that was the less scalable version of this-
……这种网络，我很高兴更多人能有机会把自己的名字和想法联系起来。
... kind of network, and I'm excited for more people to have the ability to put their name behind ideas.
我想说的一点是，随着创业变得越来越容易，外面的噪音也越来越多，实际上人们要做到你刚才描述的那种事情反而更难了。
And one thing I'd have is that as it gets easier and easier to start companies, as it gets noisier and noisier out there, it's actually getting harder for people to do what you're describing exactly.
所以这种信号比以往任何时候都更重要。
So this kind of signal is more important than ever.
想想现在从斯坦福毕业的普通学生，他们看着创业市场，不得不依赖投资公司给出的信号，但在此之前，还得依赖像你这样的人，以及我们希望在这里赋能的成百上千的人所给出的信号。
If you think about the average student graduating out of Stanford today, they're looking at the startup market, and they have to rely on the signals that are given by firms who are investing, but even before that, that are given by people like you and hundreds of others we hope to empower here.
我喜欢在网站上举的一个例子是，当人们去看的时候，你会看到像Packy McCormick这样的人，我觉得他在深科技和垂直整合领域一直有很好的信号，Packy选了37家公司。
An example I love to point to on the site, when people go, and you've got people like Packy McCormick, who I think has always had a lot of very good signal around the deep tech and the vertical integrators in particular, and Packy's got 37 companies that he's chosen.
他说：“这些就是如果你想进入这个领域，应该考虑的公司。”
He says, "These are the companies if you want to get into this space."
而且在他们背后还有很多人，包括我自己。
And there's many, many more behind them, self included.
所以某种程度上，他是在拿自己的名声为那家公司做担保。
So in a way, he's co-signing some of his reputation against that company.
他在说：“我相信这家公司。
He's saying, "I trust this company.
我言行一致，说到做到。
I'm putting my money where my mouth is.
我在写关于他们的文章，而且我觉得如果你想在那里开始你的职业生涯……”
I'm writing about them, and I think that if you wanted to start your career off there..."
所以这就变成了一份活生生的指南，列出了值得关注的公司和人。
So it becomes a sort of living directory of companies and of people that are worth paying attention to.
而且是免费的。
And free.
Crunchbase、PitchBook这些都要花钱，等等。
Crunchbase, PitchBook cost money, et cetera.
它们是很棒的产品。
They're great products.
它们必须做成生意。
They have to be a business.
但我们很幸运，能真正为创业社区免费提供这些。
But we have the luxury of being able to just really offer this for the startup community.
所以我们希望它成为最有价值的地方，让人们看到谁投资了什么。
And so we want it to be the most valuable place where people can see who invested in what.
奥利维亚做过哪些交易？
What is Olivia's set of deals that she's done?
关于联合创始人是谁，最可靠的公司信息是什么？
What is the most reliable company information on who are the co-founders?
员工有哪些？
Who are employees?
他们发布了哪些产品？
What are the products they shipped?
我们决定了一件事，就是没有哪个产品能面面俱到，总得有取舍，而这样只会是好事。
And one thing we've decided is that no product can be all things to all people, and there are trade-offs, and this is just going to be positive.
所以这里会是一个人们炫耀的地方。
So this is going to be a place where people brag.
这里的信息会准确，但你有多少次会去翻别人的领英，或者发消息问别人，'嘿，你在领英上跟某人有关联。'
It's going to be accurate, but how often do you go to someone's LinkedIn or text someone and be like, "Hey, you're connected to someone on LinkedIn.
你能跟我说说他们吗？'
Can you tell me about them?"
你会说，'哎，我其实不太认识他们。'
You're like, "Ah, I don't really know them."
我们会提供更细致的信息，确保那里有真正的信号。
We're going to have a much more granular information to make sure that there's real signal there.
但这是我们做出的一个产品决策。
But that is one product decision that we've made.
大卫，这是我们七年前尝试过的东西，后来因为忙其他事情就放弃了，但我很好奇，你一直觉得这个想法有什么吸引人的地方，无论是从需求角度还是我们真正想做的事情来看？
David, this is something that we experimented with seven years ago and decided not to pursue because we got busy with other stuff, but I'm curious what has always struck you about this idea in terms of the need for it or what we're really trying to do here?
我一直觉得，在这个圈子里，或者说在这个行业里，甚至说在全世界，最重要的能力就是比别人更早发现机会。
One thing I've always believed is the most important skill in this town, or in this industry, or perhaps in the world, is your ability to identify things before the market.
如果你是投资人，这些机会就是公司；如果你是招聘经理或者创始人，那就是人才。
And those things, if you're an investor, it's companies, if you're a hiring manager, if you're a founder, it's people.
有时候也可能是产品。
Sometimes it's products.
如果你负责一家成长型公司的采购，你可能需要在市场之前判断哪个产品更好。
If you are in charge of procurement for a growing company, maybe you need to identify which product is better before the market.
但这种事情从来没有人记录下来。
But there's no way of recording that.
没有什么潮人排行榜会说："这个人最先发现了这家咖啡店。"
There's no hipster leaderboard that says, "This person found this coffee shop first."
对天使投资人来说，当然希望自己与众不同而且判断正确，因为这样就能获得回报，比如我可以投你的种子轮。
For angel investors, of course, they want to be non-consensus and right, and they're rewarded for doing so, because I can invest in your pre-seed round.
如果我看对了，那对我来说就赚大了。
If I'm right, then it's lucrative for me.
一直吸引我的一点是，我没办法把个人的社交资本投资在你身上。
One of the things that's always drawn me back was the idea that I can't invest my personal social capital in you.
但我非常愿意为你做引荐。
I am very willing to make an introduction for you.
如果我真的很看好一个人，而别人还没听说过他，我可以帮你引荐给比如Josh Elman，他可能会接受这个引荐，因为他看到我把自己的声誉押在了这次引荐上。
If I really, really believe in someone and no one else has heard of them, I can make an introduction to Josh Elman, for example, and he will hopefully take that introduction because he sees me putting my reputation against that introduction.
他完全不知道这个人是谁，但他知道David对这个人评价很高，愿意冒险一试。
He has no idea who this person is, but he knows that David thinks highly enough of this person to take a chance on them.
对我来说，第一次让我印象深刻的是，当我为某人背书时，我是认真的，这也是我们这次回来要重点强调的。
To me, the thing that stood out the first time around, and the thing that we're trying to really lean on coming back is when I cosign something, I take it seriously.
我希望那个人能拿着我的背书，直接去找Josh，说：“嘿，David给我背书了。”
I want that person to be able to take the cosign I've given them, and they might be able to go straight to Josh, and they say, "Hey, David cosigned me."
Josh可能会看到这个。
And Josh might see that.
他可能会回复那条冷私信。
He might reply to that cold DM.
实际上，这就像给社会资本的轮子加了润滑油，能让更多人实现更多成就。
And in fact, that sort of lubricates the wheels of social capital that could empower a lot more people to achieve a lot more.
我记得很久以前Naval说过一句我很喜欢的话。
There's this Naval quote I love from a long time ago.
就是那句：“做到足够优秀，让人们愿意通过你来做生意。”
It's, "Be so good that people do business through you."
如果我给两个人背书，他们可能会因此认识，或者一起做点事情，或者互相雇佣、互相投资，而这一切都是因为我促成的，甚至我自己都不知道，这真的很让人兴奋。
In fact, if I cosign two people, they might be able to meet and otherwise build something or otherwise hire each other or invest in each other in a way that I enabled without even having to know about it, which is very exciting.
这确实很有意思。
It's really interesting.
说到这个，我想聊聊产品的更多功能。
Related to that, I want to talk about more features of the product.
我之前提到过更细致地表达信誉的方式。
I was talking about the more granular ways of expressing reputation.
我参加过的最棒的活动之一是2018年的SV Angel大会。
One of the best events I ever went to was this SV Angel conference in 2018.
我觉得他们大概一年办一次这样的活动。
I think they do it once a year or something like that.
每个活动都应该这样，但在我去之前，他们发了一份150人的名单，每个人都很厉害。
And every event should do this, but before I went to the event, they had this list of 150 people that they sent out, and everybody was a baller.
他们说：'滑动选择你想见的人，想被介绍认识的人。'
And they said, "Swipe who you want to meet, who you want intro'd to."
我几乎每个人都滑了。
And I swiped on almost everybody.
都是些新秀。
It was up and coming.
你记得的，Josh。
You remember, Josh.
而且都很渴望认识优秀的人。
And eager to meet great people.
基本上，如果他们对我感兴趣，我们就会自动被介绍认识，就像说：'你们有完整的背景信息。
And basically, if they swiped right on me, then we would get an automatic intro, and it would be like, "You guys have full context.
你们应该聊聊。
You should chat."
然后，我最后确实和大多数人见了面，他们真的变成了……
And, I then ended up meeting with most of those people, and they became really...
所以那个活动，当然，我不可能在活动现场和40个人都进行深入交流，但那个活动为我们成为朋友和合作伙伴提供了契机。
So that event, of course, I couldn't have met 40 people at an event and had deep conversations with them, but that event provided the context for us to become friends and collaborators.
我想说的是，世界上有很多我们想认识的人，他们也想认识我们。
And I say that to say that there are so many people in the world who we want to meet who also want to meet us.
这只是一个信息问题。
And it's just an information problem.
如果你能减少这种介绍的摩擦，因为现在的情况是，我得给他们发私信，但我得想好说什么。
And if you can reduce the friction to make that introduction, because right now it's like I have to DM them, but I have to think about something to say.
他们感兴趣吗？
Are they interested?
我不知道。
I don't know.
但这只是被动的，比如，是的，这些人是我愿意认识的。
But this is just sort of passive, like, yeah, here are people I would meet.
现在，我们启用了一种更细致的私下信号。
Now, what we've enabled is this privately signal that's actually a bit more granular.
所以不仅仅是我想认识他们，虽然这也有，但还包括，如果他们创业我会投资，或者如果他们考虑离职我会聘用。
So it's not just I want to meet them, though there is that, but it's also, I would fund them if they start a company, or I would hire them if they consider leaving.
有很多人我愿意聘用，但我不能联系所有人，而且可能不合适，我也太忙了，我只会在他们想加入我或类似情况下才愿意和他们谈。
There's a lot of people who I would hire, but I can't reach out to all of them, and also it might be inappropriate, and I'm too busy, and I would only want to talk to them if they want to join me or whatever.
所以，在职业意向上有更细致的信号，被动地，没有风险……
And so, having more granularity around professional intent, passively, there's no risk of...
因为发私信是有成本的。
Because there's some cost in sending a DM.
我不知道。
I don't know.
你可能会感到被拒绝，或者没时间，或者别的什么。
You might feel rejected, or it's time, or whatever it is.
如果他们也表达了兴趣，那这就是一次高意向的引荐，我觉得能带来很多好处。
And if they also express interest, then it's an introduction with high intent, I think can unlock just a lot of good stuff.
那个会议的例子太有意思了，因为我觉得对我来说另一个收获是，我们现在都可以成为人脉匹配者了——
That conference example is so interesting because I feel like the other takeaway for me is we can all be people matchers now-
……用像 Cosign 这样的产品。
... with a product like Cosign.
完全同意。
Totally.
想想在我们的工作中，每天都会遇到很多人。
I think about in all of our jobs, we meet so many people every day.
我经常遇到一个人，心里就想：“他们太棒了。
I often meet someone, I'm like, "They are awesome.
他们有非常特别的技能。”
They have this really specific skill set."
然后三个月后我遇到另一个人，正好需要这种技能，我就得想办法——
Then I meet someone else three months later who's looking for that skill set, and I have to figure out-
对
Yes
……记住这个人，确认他们是否还想要引荐，然后促成引荐。所以，把这些信息存储在一个更持久、能跨越时间的地方，真的非常有意思。
... remember this person, check if they still want the intro, make the intro, and so that store of information and somewhere that's more persistent and can work across time is really, really interesting.
我完全同意。
I agree with that completely.
我们作为投资者，以及硅谷的很多人，最喜欢做的事情之一就是建立这些联系。
So much of what we like to do, both as investors and in people around Silicon Valley, is make these connections.
但要在恰当的时间匹配需求和技能，总是很难。
But it's always hard to match the needs and the skills at exactly the right time.
记住这些，并且能够把它们系统化——比如，我觉得这些人是真正优秀的设计师，或者这些人是真正优秀的公关人员，能在危机中帮你，或者这些人在我做职业决定时真的帮了我很多——
And remember that, and being able to codify this, here's the people I think are truly great designers, or here's the people I think are truly great PR people who can help you through a crisis, or here's the people that have really helped me through a career decision that I was making-
……或者我经常请教的一些导师。
... or the mentors that I go to.
现在能够真正地为这些人背书，让这些信息随时可用，这样当你需要的时候——
Being able to actually endorse that now has it available so that when you're looking for that-
……你就不用非得去问：“乔什，谁能帮我理清这个决定？”
... you don't just have to go, "Josh, who can help me think through this decision?"
我得翻一翻最近跟谁聊过，谁在我脑子里印象比较新，但我也能真正回头去说：“嘿，乔什，我在看那些背书，你说过这个人真的帮了你解决某个情况。”
I have to go through and see who have I recently talked to, who's fresh top of mind that I can think of, but I can really go back and be able to say, "Hey, Josh, I'm looking through those cosigns, and you said that this person really helped you with this one situation."
“你觉得他们愿意帮帮我吗？”
"Do you think they'd be open to helping me?"
这样一来，我们就能真正扩展那些人脉、价值和信任，而且这种方式还是基于你信任我去做那个引荐。
And it allows us to really extend all that network and all that value and all that trust, and yet still is a way that you're trusting me to try to make that introduction.
我们谁也不想直接说：“嘿，所有东西对所有人都开放。”
It's not that any of us want to just say, "Hey, everything's open to everybody."
这仍然是信任社区的一部分，而且那种声誉会随着时间转移和积累。
It's really still part of the trusted community, and really that reputation that transfers and builds over time.
所以，基于埃里克说的，私人信号是核心的一部分，我觉得你在这里谈的，某种程度上是公共信号。
So building on something Erik said, the private signal is one core piece of it, and I think what you're talking about here is, in a way, the public signal.
所以我们已经构建了这两者，私人信号。
So we've built the two of them, the private signal.
说实话，这个产品真的很有意思。
Honestly, the product is so fun.
你可以到处逛，像掉进兔子洞一样。
You can go rabbit holing around.
有点像维基百科，从一个链接点到另一个链接，从人到个人资料，到公司，到投资人，再绕回来。
It's a bit like Wikipedia, clicking from link to link to person to profile to company to investor and back again.
而且你逛的时候，会不断收集东西。
And as you go, you're collecting.
可能有点像Pinterest，我会把这个人放到我私人的名单里，是我未来想合作的人；把那个人放到我公开的设计师名单里，是我认可的设计师。
Maybe it's Pinterest, and I'm going to put this person on my personal private list of people that I want to work with in the future, and I'm going to put this person on my public list of designers that I rate.
每次有创始人来找我，说：“David，我需要一个新的设计师。”
And every time a founder comes to me and they say, "David, I need a new designer.
我需要一个做增长的人。
I need a growth guy.
我需要一个工程师，”我就可以说：“那我是参考我的私人信号呢，还是把我的公开名单发给他们？”
I need an engineer," I can say, "Well, do I consult my private signals, or do I send them my public list?"
而且希望每个人都能养成这样的习惯：如果我真的看好一个人，我就会把他放进我的私人名单里。
And hopefully, everyone has this sort of habit of if I really believe in someone, I'm putting them on my private list.
这其实对双方都有好处。
It's actually utility both ways.
这是在告诉他们，我相信他们。
It's telling them that I believe in them.
这也是在告诉他们的社交圈，我相信他们。
It's telling their network that I believe in them.
同时，这也是我可以利用的资源，我可以转身把它交给创始人或者我尊敬的人，省去你所说的那些繁琐工作。
It's also something I can use, I can turn around, I can give to a founder or someone I respect, and I can shortcut that work that you're saying you do.
每次有人问问题，你都得这么做。
You have to do it every time someone asks a question.
对我来说，还有一点很有意思，就是在社交网络里经常会出现时间差，我会想：“天哪。
What's so interesting about that to me as well is there's this often timing discrepancy that happens in networks where I'm like, "Oh my gosh.
我知道这个人一直在努力把自己的创业公司做起来。”
I know this person has been trying to get their startup off the ground."
另一家初创公司会很乐意跟他们合并，或者欢迎他们加入团队，只要时机合适的话。
This other startup would love to merge with them or welcome them to the team, something if the timing is right.
但如果我去找那位创始人，问他说：“嘿，你有没有考虑过卖掉你的公司？”
But if I go to that founder and I'm like, "Hey, are you thinking about exiting your company?"
那风险就大了。
That's a big risk.
可能会让人觉得冒犯或者受辱，或者公司现在运营得不错，他们还想继续做下去。
It could be offensive or insulting, or maybe the company is working, and they want to keep going on it.
所以，拥有这样一个双向网络，两边都有信息，当他们表明意向时，就能在合适的时机匹配起来，我觉得这真的非常棒。
And so the idea of just having This two-sided network where there's information on both sides and they can match when the time is right, when they indicate, I think is really, really great.
无论是招聘、收购、换工作，还是很多其他事情。
On both hires, acquisitions, job changes, tons of things.
完全同意。
Totally.
对，这太有意思了。
Yeah, that's so fascinating.
公司对公司的这种，我之前还真没想到。
The company to company, I didn't even think about.
我会买下这家公司。
I would buy this company.
我们明天就把产品功能上线。
We'll get the product features shipped tomorrow.
对，没错。
Yeah, exactly.
我觉得我们只是把路线图延长了。
I think we just extended the roadmap.
对，这种情况常有。
Yeah, that happens.
关于这一点，我还有几点想补充。
There are a couple of things I want to add to that.
所以，有意思的是，我们一直在想，要不要做一个信息流？
So, it's interesting, we thought a lot about, should there be a feed?
如果有的话，那上面放什么内容呢？
If so, what is on the feed?
是自由发挥的形式吗？
Is it freeform?
等等之类的。
Et cetera.
乔什帮我们明确了信息流的重点，就是围绕问题和公告。
And Josh helped us really nail down the focus of the feed to be around questions and announcements.
公告这部分特别有意思，因为我们觉得一个差异化方式就是让声誉变得持久。
And announcement is so interesting because we think a way to differentiate there is to basically make reputation durable.
很多声誉是建立在社交媒体上的，但都是转瞬即逝的。
A lot of reputation is built on social media, but it's ephemeral.
所以乔什加入公司时，他希望我多关注别人，但你就是一个很好的例子。
So when Josh joined the firm, he wanted me to focus on other people, but you're such a good example.
很多人突然冒出来，他们和乔什合作了很久，但可能最近没公开说什么，因为没必要，现在都说："哇，我真的很认可乔什。
A lot of people came out of the woodwork who've been working with him for a long time but who maybe haven't publicly said anything recently because they didn't need to, and said, "Wow, I really endorse Josh.
你应该和乔什合作。
You should work with Josh.
乔什在我的职业生涯中帮了我很多。
Josh helped me in my career."
我这么说过，尼基塔也这么说过。
I said that, Nikita said that.
还有很多人也这么说过。
A bunch of other people said that.
然后，第二天就发生了。
And then, the next day just happened.
有些人看到了，有些人没看到。
And some people saw that, some people didn't see it.
但这类东西非常有价值，应该在你第一次查某个人的资料时就出现在他的页面上。
But that type of stuff is so valuable and should exist on someone's profile the first time you're looking them up.
所以对我们来说，任何公告都会与他们的持久声誉挂钩。
And so for us, any announcement is going to be tied to their durable reputation.
所以当公司融资、人们换工作的时候，这些都是获得背书和推荐的好机会。
And so when companies fundraise, when people switch jobs, these are opportunities for cosigns, for endorsements, et cetera.
然后在问题方面，就像我们之前聊到的，比如谁是最适合这个的公关人员？
And then on the question side, it's really this, as we were talking about earlier, it's like, who's the best comms person for this?
或者谁是金融科技领域最好的天使投资人？
Or who's the best angel investor in fintech?
或者，我应该和谁合作来做这件事？
Or, who are people I should work with for this?
或者这种非常具体的问题，关于某个人、公司或产品，你想了解或想被推荐给你的。
Or this kind of very specific question of some sort of person or company or product you're looking to either surface to you or learn more about.
这样也能建立持久的声誉，因为你会通过这种方式被加入某个列表。
And in that way, it will also build durable reputation because you get added to a list through that.
不，我觉得这个想法很好，把那些在Twitter和其他社交媒体上发生的短暂时刻和对话，比如X和其他社交平台上，有很多事情发生，当时很精彩，但之后就消失了。
No, I think this idea of bringing those ephemeral moments and those ephemeral conversations that happen on Twitter and other social, or X, and other social media forums all the time are like, there's so much that just happens, and it's wonderful in the moment, and then it gets lost.
我觉得建立个人资料的想法，不是那种只说自己好的资料，而是真的能让别人积极地帮你突出优点，我觉得这真的非常强大。
And I think this idea of building a profile, not a profile that is just what you say about yourself, but really that lets other people be positive and help shine on your strengths, I think is really, really powerful.
而且我经常看到这些，都是关于你和你在这里做的出色工作的。
And I see a lot of these for you and the great work you're doing here.
我也经常看到关于奥利维亚和大卫的这些。
I see a lot of these for Olivia and David.
我们收到这些评论，真的非常特别，你会觉得很幸运，因为你过去帮助过的人现在能这样评价你。
We get these comments, and it's just so special, and you feel so lucky to have people that you've helped in the past be able to say those things about you now.
但同样，这些内容就这么流失了。
But then again, it just gets lost.
我觉得这个想法，就是追踪这些背书，让它真正成为我们硅谷、科技行业这个基本网络的一部分——
And I think this idea of tracking those cosigns and really making it feel like this fundamental network of the web that we are of Silicon Valley, of the tech industry-
我给你举个例子。
I'll give you an example
……真的很有力量。
... is really powerful.
你知道那个梗吗？一个人走进一个全是火柴人的派对，然后他说：“他们根本不知道……”
Do you know the meme where the guy's walking into a party of stick figures and he's like, "They don't even know that..."
这就像，你得到了一个很牛的背书或者什么的，然后你会想，'这又不是公开的。'
That's something, you get a baller cosign or whatever, and you're like, "It's not public."
马克·安德森写了一篇博客文章，说我加入了这家公司。
Marc Andreessen wrote a blog post about me joining the firm.
那真是太酷了。
That's pretty dope.
我想把它放在我的...
I want that on my...
你一想到我，首先想到的就是马克·安德森·霍洛维茨。
The first thing when you think about me is to think about Marc Andreessen Horowitz.
从职业角度来说，确实是这样。
Professionally it is.
所以，就是有这么多这样的时刻发生。
And so, there are just all these moments that happen.
如果我们能让它们更清晰可见——
If we can make them more legible-
……你就能更准确地展现一个人的——
... you can more accurately represent someone's-
说实话，直到我们真的把这个产品接上互联网的“水龙头”，我才意识到这样的时刻有多少。
Honestly, it wasn't until we actually hooked up the internet fire hose to this product that I realized how many of those moments there are.
你看主信息流，每天都有融资公告、人才流动的消息。
You look at the main feed, and every day, there is fundraising announcements, there's talent transitions.
多亏了我们在X上的好朋友，我们接入了很多这样的信息，每当有人在引用推文中宣布消息或回复时，我们都会筛选出那些真正有思想、积极的评论，就像你之前提到的“积极”那个点。
Thanks to our good friends at X, we're plugged into a lot of those, and we're taking, whenever someone in quote tweets an announcement or replies, and you're filtering them, it's a genuinely thoughtful, positive comment, your point earlier about positivity.
这些评论会被提取出来，而且确实来自真人，会显示在个人资料上——
Those are pulled through, and it's really coming from a person, and it's on the profile-
……这个人来自哪里，然后这些评论会发给另一个人。
... the person comes from, and it goes to a person.
完全同意。
Totally.
之所以都是积极的，是因为产品总得在某方面胜出，而这个产品会赢在人们用它来展示自己。
And the reason why it's all positive is because products have to win on some dimension, and this product is going to win on people using it to show off.
以好的方式展现自己。
Show up in a good way.
就像说，'嘿，这是我引以为豪的东西。
Like, "Hey, this is what I'm proud of.
这代表了我个人和公司层面上能力的完整展现。'
This represents the full manifestation of what I'm capable of on a person level and on a company level."
我真的觉得这关乎庆祝。
And I really think it's about celebration.
对。
Yes.
我们做的很多事情，背后都有很多辛苦的付出——
So much of what we do, there's so much hard work that goes on-
是的
Yes
——才让每一个产品得以问世。
... into making every single product that happens.
这是某个人心血的结晶，他们的创意、他们写的代码，或者可能是他们现在和他们的代理一起完成的工作。
It's a toil of somebody's love, their idea, the coding they wrote, or maybe that they worked on with their agent now.
但把它发布到世界上，这是一个非常脆弱的时刻。
But putting that out in the world, it's a very vulnerable moment.
而且非常像是，“你喜欢我努力做出来的东西吗？
And it's very like, "Do you like what I've tried to make?
你会用它吗？”
Are you going to use it?"
我觉得我们需要庆祝那份努力，以及那些时刻背后的付出，还有我们所有辛勤工作的成果，而不是——批评的地方多的是，我们也经常看到那些。
And I think we need to celebrate that effort and what goes into those moments and what goes into all the hard work that we do, as opposed to, there's plenty of places for critique, and we see all that all the time, too.
但我认为那些批评不需要以同样的方式被记录下来留给后人。
But I think that doesn't need to be recorded for posterity in the same way.
而且我们在私下聊到一件有趣的事，就是有很多奖项和很多光环都集中在创始人身上。
And one thing we were talking offline that's interesting is there's a lot of awards and a lot of shine on founders.
当然，这也是理所应当的。
And justifiably so, obviously.
而且，还有很多其他人也在建设公司。
And also, there's a lot of other people build the companies, too.
而且，很多人对公司至关重要，但他们却不为人知，或者没有得到同等的赞誉。
And a lot more people are critical to those companies, and they're unknown or not celebrated to the same degree.
这也是一个机会，可以做到这一点。
And this is an opportunity to do that as well.
完全同意。
Totally.
我觉得即使是正面的信号也会非常有价值，因为我认为硅谷的很多人对公开支持谁有很高的标准——
I think even just positive signal is going to be incredibly informative because I think a lot of people in Silicon Valley have a pretty high bar for who they're willing to publicly endorse-
……以任何方式。
... in any way.
当我想到收到的介绍请求数量，以及我真正促成多少时，我觉得这很棒。
When I think about the number of intro requests that come in and how many of those do I actually bridge?
我觉得这很棒。
I think it's great.
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因为如果你推荐了一个不怎么样的人，那会对你自己的声誉有负面影响。
Because if you endorse someone who's not great, that reflects poorly on you.
没错，就是这样。
Exactly, yeah.
这确实是一个天然的信誉信号机制。
It really is a natural reputation signal mechanism.
而且还有一个问题，你会不会分享一个你甚至都没试过的东西？
And there's a whole thing about do you share something that you haven't even played with?
还有——
There's a whole-
你在转发文章之前，真的读过那篇文章吗？
... have you even read the article before you retweet it?
我觉得关键是，你很快就能知道谁只是在——
And I think the key is you'll get to know pretty quickly who's just-
随便乱说，什么都夸，而不是那种“你知道吗？”
... spouting things and is celebrating everything that could be celebrated versus, "You know what?
我确实玩过这个。
I've actually played with this.
我花过时间在上面。
I've spent time with it.
我听过背后的故事。
I've heard the backstory.
我也思考过背后的故事。
I've thought about the backstory."
我想再强调一下你刚才说的，这不仅仅是创始人个人的事。
And I just want to double down on one comment you said about this going beyond the founders.
我觉得那些从零开始创业的创始人，他们冒的风险真的非常了不起，但每一家公司的建立都需要很多人的共同努力。
I think the founders who take that risk to start a company from nothing, that's such an incredible thing, but it takes a village to build every one of these companies.
需要很多优秀的设计师、工程师、市场营销人员、产品经理，还有财务人员。
It takes so many great designers and engineers and marketers and product managers, and finance.
每家公司都有很多不同的部分需要去构建。
There's so many parts of every single company that have to get built.
而且庆祝这些工作，当这些工作来自某个特定团队或个人时，能够成为这种认可和背书的一部分，我认为这将产生巨大的影响力，远远超出我们平时谈论的那些人。
And celebrating that work, and when that happens from a specific team or a specific individual, and be able to have that be part of this kind of endorsement and cosigning, I think is going to be incredibly powerful beyond just the people that we talk about most of the time.
你想讲个故事，还是让埃里克来讲一个？
Want to tell a story or perhaps nudge Erik to tell a story?
我第一次听说埃里克，后来认识他，是在Rise Awards上。
One of the first times I actually heard of Erik, and then went on to meet Erik was the Rise Awards.
在Rise Awards上——
At the Rise Awards-
大概是2015年、2016年左右。
... 2015, '16, thereabouts.
所以那是十多年前的事了。
So over a decade ago now.
当时的主题是，创始人得到了很多关注和赞誉，但实际上，真正在幕后运营的是那些人。
And it was around this thesis that founders get a lot of publicity, a lot of credit, but it's actually the people who are the operators behind the scenes.
所以这个原则，你想讲讲这个故事吗？
And so the principle, do you want to tell the story?
Rise Awards是什么？
What were the Rise Awards?
Rise Awards是一系列奖项，旨在表彰其他所有人。
So the Rise Awards were this series of awards meant to be for everybody else.
包括工程师、设计师、产品人员……
For the engineers, the designers, the product...
我记得Josh是评委之一。
I believe Josh was a judge.
还有很多其他人。
Many others.
我们收到了数千份申请，并因此发现和选拔了一些优秀的人才。
And we had thousands of submissions and discovered and selected some great people because of it.
我们打算以某种形式重新举办这个活动。
And we're going to bring that back to some capacity.
有句话怎么说来着？
There's this, what's the phrase?
“不怕会一千种招式的人，就怕把一种招式练一千遍的人。”
"Fear not the guy who has 1,000 moves, but the guy who does one move 1,000 times."
就像武士那样。
There's the samurai.
你知道的，踢一千次。
You know, you kick 1,000 times.
所以，Rise Awards、Cosign，这些想法我们一直都有——
So, Rise Awards, Cosign, a lot of these ideas have been in the ether for us for-
其实——
In fact-
……最突出的一点是，很多Rise Awards的获奖者通过参加那些静修活动、你把他们加进的小组等等，彼此认识并建立了——
... the thing that stands out is a lot of the people who were the Rise Award recipients got to know each other and built-
……终身的友谊。
... lifelong relationships through the retreats they attended, through the groups that you added them to and things.
所以这里面有某种东西——
So there's something around that-
还有那种联系。
... the connection, too.
这真的很有意思，因为我觉得我们经常遇到一些从大公司出来创业的人。
It's really interesting because I feel like we often meet people who are spinning out of great companies to start their own companies.
而且如果你深入了解的话，
And often if you get really deep-
如果你联系他们所有共事过的人，你会发现，哇，这个人，比如说是第四号工程师，实际上对这家公司成功与否起了决定性的作用。
... if you call everyone they've ever worked with, it's like, wow, this person who was, I don't know, engineer number four actually was a huge determinant in this company being successful or not.
但就像你之前提到的“可见度”问题，这一点他们没法公开宣传。
But that, to your point earlier about legibility, that's not something that they can publicize.
他们不会成为关于这家公司每篇文章的焦点。
They're not going to be the face of every article about the company.
但我觉得有很多这样的人，我希望看到他们离开那家公司，去创办新公司，或者去另一家公司，把那份成就带过去。
And yet there's so many of these people who I think I would love to see them get to leave that company if they go start a new company, if they go to another one and carry that-
带着那份成就继续前行。
... accomplishment with them.
完全同意。
Totally.
而且他们现在确实没法做到这一点。
And they can't really do that right now.
我们基本上是在让声誉市场变得更高效，或者说更流动，嗯，两者都有。
We're making the reputation market more efficient, basically, or more liquid in the sense of, well, both.
既高效又流动。
Efficient and liquid.
比如说，有些人声誉很好，但知名度不够。
So for example, there's some people who have an amazing reputation, but there's not awareness.
没多少人知道他们声誉很好。
Not a lot of people know that they have a great reputation.
而更流动的意思是，如果大家都知道他们声誉很好，很多人就会想雇佣他们或投资他们，他们也应该因此获得这些机会。
And then more liquid in the sense of, if it was known that they have a great reputation, a lot of people would want to hire them or fund them, and they should get those opportunities as a result.
所以基本上就是在解决这种信息不对称的问题。
And so it's basically trying to fix that information asymmetry.
不过我想回到你之前说的那个话题，因为真的很有意思。
I want to return to what you were saying earlier, though, because it's really interesting.
就是，很多时候，候选人或者正在找工作的人会坐下来问你：“嘿，你觉得我应该加入哪家公司？”
It's like, a bunch of times a candidate will, or someone looking for a new job will sit you down and say, "Hey, what company should I join?"
有很多人希望自己能这么做，但如果你有一份他们应该加入的公司名单，那基本上就是通过你来做生意了。
And there's a lot of people who wish they could do that, but if you've got your list of companies they should join, it's kind of the do business through you.
就像奥利维亚给这些公司盖了章一样。
It's like Olivia stamped these companies.
他们可以直接联系你。
They can reach out.
同样，如果你和某些公司见了面，那也很酷，你可以直接按个按钮，把信息发给所有你的公司，而不是非得……
And similarly, and it'd be cool also, for the ones you do meet with, that you could just press a button, and it would go to all your companies instead of having to-
……一个个想。
... think through.
因为有些信息你可能只想私下分享，只给你的公司或者什么的。
Because there's some that you might want to share private just to keep to your companies or whatever it is.
但也有一些公司会说："嘿，我想要一个公关负责人。"
But then also there are companies who are like, "Hey, I want a head of comms.
在我的圈子里，谁认识公关负责人？
Who in my network knows a head of...
我该找谁谈呢？"
Who should I even talk to?"
如果人们能互相推荐公关负责人或者类似的人选，那就能大大促进匹配。
And to the extent that people are cosigning heads of comms or this kind of thing, it can just facilitate much more matching.
对，完全同意。
Yeah, totally.
我觉得即使是投资者，他们关心的公司的最新资料，可能也就是在X个人简介里标记一下，或者在领英上放一下，不然就得去公司页面看看他们是否关联了投资。
I feel like even for investors, the most up-to-date profile of the companies they care about is maybe if they tag them all in their X bio, and maybe if they put them on their LinkedIn, otherwise you have to go to the firm's page and see if they connect them to investments.
如果我能做到，而且不会影响观众范围的话，我会整天整天发推文宣传我所有的公司。
And if I could, and not ruin the reach in the audience, I would be tweeting about all my companies all day, every day.
推广它们——
Promoting them-
……去为他们工作。
... go work for them.
他们刚做了一件了不起的事。
They just did this amazing thing.
但你不能那样做。
But you can't do that.
我喜欢有一个地方能记录这些——
And I love the idea of a place where that lives-
完全同意
Totally
……随时都能看到。
... to see at any time.
要厚脸皮。
Be shameless.
对。
Yes.
这确实很有意思。
It is interesting.
那我们先聊聊现有的平台吧。
So let's talk about existing platforms for a second.
X平台显然很棒，它的产出对很多人来说都很有价值。
X obviously, such a great platform, and the exhaust of it is so valuable to so many people.
但有时候我也会想，'天哪，我真希望能直接下载我的粉丝增长数据。'
But there's also times where I'm like, "Man, I wish I could just download my follower growth."
或者几千人点赞了我关于加入我公司的内容。
Or a few thousand people liked this thing about joining my company.
'我真希望能直接看到这些'，为什么就这么难呢？
"I wish I could just see this," and why is it so difficult?
或者说它并不适合用来发现潜在员工或获取更多信号，比如'你关注了我，但你想为我工作吗？'
Or it's not built for this use case of discovering people to work for or just get more signal, like, "Okay, you follow me, but do you want to work for me?
'你想投资我吗？'
Do you want to invest in me?"
我不知道。
I don't know.
“我们在这里想做什么？”
"What do we want to do here?"
然后领英，它真是个非常有用的工具。
And then LinkedIn, it's such a valuable utility.
我们一直在用，但每个人都讨厌它。
We're on it all the time, and yet everyone hates it.
我开玩笑的。
I'm just kidding.
显然，它——
Obviously, it's-
哎呀。
Aw.
我们喜欢——
We love-
我们喜欢领英。
We love LinkedIn.
对，我们喜欢领英。
Yeah, we love LinkedIn.
乔什以前在那儿工作。
Josh used to work there.
领英，史上最具标志性的产品之一。
LinkedIn, one of the most iconic products of all time.
我记得马克在被收购时曾著名地为它辩护。
Mark famously defended it, I remember, when they got acquired.
因为人们当时说：“什么？
Because people were like, "What?
才260亿？”
Only 26 billion?"
他就说：“那是个很好的结果。”
It was like, "That's a great outcome."
而且它是个标志性产品，但人们还是对它有些不满。
And it was iconic product, and yet people have frustrations with it.
甚至在信息流出现之前，有些人说信息流很尴尬什么的，但即使在信息流之前，我觉得人们就在想，‘唉，真希望这里能做的事情更多一些。’
And even before the feed, some people say the feed is cringe or whatever, but even before the feed, I feel like people were like, "Ah, I wish there was just more that we could do here."
那你为什么不聊聊这个呢？
So why don't you talk about that?
你看，我在2004年和2005年的时候在LinkedIn工作，当时我们才刚刚……
Look, I worked at LinkedIn back in 2004 and '05, when we were just-
……开始建立这个网络。
... starting to form the network.
创始人Reid Hoffman经常说，我们公司有三个阶段。
And Reid Hoffman, the founder, used to talk about it very much as like we have three stages of the company.
第一阶段是增长。
First is growth.
我们真的得想办法确保我们拥有最大的职业网络，并且让每个人即使什么都不做，也能从成为网络的一员中获得价值。
We really have to figure out how to make sure we have the largest professional network and give everybody value of just being part of their network, even if they have nothing to do.
实际上，对很多用户来说，注册、填好资料，然后暂时什么都不用做，除非有东西主动找上门，这本身就是一种很好的使用方式。
And actually, for a lot of users, sign up, make your profile, don't do anything else for a while unless something comes to you, was a perfectly good usage.
然后我们谈到了使用。
Then we talked about usage.
我们真的需要在网络之上开始构建产品。
We really have to start to build products on top of the network.
真正重要的是，网络只是基础。
The real thing was the network is just the substrate.
我们需要去构建一个真正的求职服务。
We need to go build a real job service.
我帮助推出了第一批LinkedIn职位功能。
I helped launch the first LinkedIn jobs.
我们必须去构建服务，找到最好的公关专家，找到那些东西，然后我们才能创造收入。
We had to go build services, find the best PR professional, find those things, and then we'll build revenue.
所以这就像我所说的GRR，增长、使用、收入。
So it was kind of the, I called it GRR, growth, usage, revenue.
我们真的得想清楚，在这个网络之上要建什么样的平台和产品。
And we really had to figure out what those platforms and products were going to be on top of the network.
现在的问题是，随着网络的建设，它只是一个非常单一的信号。
Now, the challenge is, as you built the network, it was very single signal.
我们是不是连接上了？
Are we connected?
在早期，这其中的好处在于，我们确实彼此认识。
And at the early days, the beauty of that was the idea that we really know each other.
我会为奥利维亚担保，如果大卫想通过我认识某人，而奥利维亚说“大卫真的很不错”，“你愿意接受这个介绍吗？”
I'll vouch for Olivia, and if David is asking for an intro to me, and Olivia says, "David's really good," "Will you take this intro?"
那太好了。
That's great.
如果你想象一下这整桌人，那就更好了。
And it was even better if you imagine this whole table.
大卫会请奥利维亚帮忙介绍，说“嘿，你能把我介绍给埃里克吗？”
David would ask Olivia for an intro to say, "Hey, can you introduce me to Eric?"
然后奥利维亚会说：“乔什，大卫是我非常好的朋友。
And then Olivia would say, "Josh, David's my really good friend.
看起来你认识埃里克。
It looks like you know Eric.
你愿意把他介绍给我吗？”
Would you be willing to pass him on?"
这种信任图谱的理念——我很高兴能和你联系，然后把你介绍给别人——是当时的重要条件。
And this idea of this trusted graph, I'm so happy to connect with you, and I'll pass you on to somebody else, was the important condition.
但随着时间的推移，这种联系从强关系逐渐变成了“对，我们曾在派对上见过一面，击过掌，邮件往来也不错。”
But over time, it started to fade from that strength of connection to like, "Yeah, we met once at a party, we high-fived, we had a good email exchange."
突然之间，大家都开始疯狂加好友。
And all of a sudden, then everybody got into a collecting.
而加好友带来的问题是，你更难分辨哪些联系才是真正有价值的。
And the challenge with collecting that network is it makes it much harder to figure out where the real signal is.
另一方面，它仍然是每个人职业形象的标志性代表。
Now, on the other side, it still is the iconic representation of who each of us is, the professional profile.
但当我们考虑如何使用职业档案时，只有当它带来价值时才有意义。
But when we think about how to use our professional profile, it's only really good if it adds value.
我记得我们最初构建LinkedIn Jobs时，目标是把现有的求职服务——人们只是投简历、看职位列表——变成利用你的职业网络的力量来做得更好。
One of the things I remember when we were first building LinkedIn Jobs was the goal was to take a current job service where someone just applies and gets a resume, and you see a job listing and go, how do we use the power of your professional network to make it better?
我最喜欢的是，Reid经常推动我们，他会说：“什么是社交简历？”
My very favorite, Reid would push us a lot, and he'd say, "What is a social resume?"
当一份求职申请进来时，它不仅仅是关于这个人是谁。
When a job application comes in, and it wasn't just, here's who this person is.
它还包括这个人是谁，以及你们公司里还有谁可能更了解这个人。
It was, here's who this person is, and here's who else in your company might also know more about who the person is.
还有谁可能在他们过去工作过的类似公司工作过。
Here's who else might have worked at similar companies they worked at in the past.
或者谁认识那些公司里工作过的人。
Or here's who knows people really well who also worked at those companies.
所以你不会只看到一份干巴巴的简历。
So you wouldn't just get this flat resume.
你得到的简历会标注出谁还能帮你联系到那个人。
You'd get a resume annotated by who else can help you reach that person.
所以这是一个很大的改变，让求职申请变得具有社交增强功能。
So that was this big change to make job applications socially enhanced.
然后当你在看工作的时候，你可能只会看到一个普通的职位，然后觉得，哦，那家公司的那个职位看起来真不错。
And then when you're looking at jobs, you might just see a flat job and like, ooh, that job looks really interesting at that company.
我们说，不，我们要把招聘经理放上去，他们的个人资料会出现在职位上。
We said, no, we're going to put the hiring manager on, their profile's going to be on the job.
突然间，你不再面对一个冷冰冰的职位，只是投个简历过去，而是你会被这个人录用。
All of a sudden, instead of a faceless job that you're just applying and throwing your resume over the wall, hey, you're going to get hired by this person.
而且，顺便说一下，这里有一些你可能和那个人有联系的方式，或者你可能和在那家公司工作的其他人有联系。
And then, by the way, here's the ways that you might have connections to that person, or you might have connections to other people who work at that company.
所以这又是如何利用你的网络来做这些事情的问题。
So it's again, how do you use your network to do those things?
所以这些就是最初的顿悟，关于如何真正重新思考像求职申请和求职网站这样简单的事情，并把它和社交网络结合起来。
And so those were these beginning epiphanies of how to really rethink just something as simple as a job application and job site with this social network.
而且我觉得，一直以来缺少的，就是像你刚才说的，那些在X上转瞬即逝的东西。
And I think, again, what has been missing, though, is the set of things that happens ephemerally through X, like you were talking about.
那些我们都有，但不知道怎么去加强、放进LinkedIn里的东西。
The set of things that we all have, but we don't figure out how to strengthen and put into LinkedIn anymore.
那种真正的联系，那种我们一起并肩作战的情谊。
The true connection, the reason that we were in the trenches together.
我们一起做过这件事。
We worked on this thing.
你帮我渡过了一次危机。
You bailed me out of a crisis.
当网络里有了这些信息，所有这些应用场景就能更好地实现了。
And when we can have that, that information in the network is going to allow all these use cases to happen so much better.
当你专注于把网络建对、用好这些功能时，我觉得Cosign真的能打开很多机会。
And when you get to focus just on making sure the network's right and getting all that usage, I think Cosign can really open up so many opportunities.
感觉这些联系几乎是有层级之分的。
It feels like there's a hierarchy almost of connections.
而LinkedIn，理所当然地，我觉得我们都在说它是标志性产品。
And LinkedIn, for good reason, again, I feel like we're all saying iconic product.
我在这里就是个按小时计费的临时工。
I'm an hourly act to be used here.
赚得盆满钵满。
Making a ton of revenue.
他们显然做得很好。
They're clearly doing fine.
他们做得非常好。
They're doing great.
但LinkedIn几乎把所有类型的联系都一视同仁——
But LinkedIn treats almost every type of connection the same-
……尤其是像LinkedIn上的推荐这类功能，其实并没有真正火起来。
... especially as products like endorsements on LinkedIn haven't really taken off.
所以举个例子，90%的时候我跟别人说：“嘿，我看到你在LinkedIn上跟这个人有联系。”
So for example, 90% of the time when I say to someone, "Hey, I saw you're connected to this person on LinkedIn.
你能帮我引荐一下吗？
Can you intro me?"
我得到的回答往往是：“嗯，我觉得我不认识他们。”
I will get the, "Hmm, I don't think I know them.
也许我在某个派对上见过他们。
Maybe I met them at a party.
我不太确定。”
I'm not sure."
所以问题是，你真的认识这个人吗？
So there's like, do you actually know the person?
你们是在同一家公司工作过吗？
Did you work at the same company?
你们是同一时间在同一家公司工作吗？
Did you work at the same company at the same time?
你们是在同一个团队，或者是在有合作的相邻团队吗？
Were you on the same team or adjacent teams that work together?
你管理过他们吗？
Did you manage them?
现在所有这些都被视为一种联系，或者不是联系。
And all of those are treated as one connection or not connection now.
我非常喜欢Cosign的这个想法，能够把它分解成应有的粒度，因为这样更有用。
And I love the idea for Cosign of being able to break that into the granularity that it deserves because it's so much more useful.
这似乎是历史上最好的时机，来构建那些能够积累原本无法获取的上下文的产品。
It seems like the greatest time in history to be building products generally that can accumulate context that was otherwise unavailable.
你说社会简历，我很喜欢这个想法。
You say the social CV, I love that idea.
我觉得，特别是Olivia，你在公司里对人才和社交领域思考了很多，而代理是围绕一个人积累大量上下文的有趣方式。
I think, Olivia, in particular, you at the firm have been thinking a lot about the talent and the social space, and agents are an interesting way to accumulate a lot of context around a person.
我觉得我们在这里构建的很多东西。
I think a lot of the things that we're building here.
你能多谈谈这个吗？
Do you talk more about that?
有很多——
There's a lot of-
完全同意
Totally
……未来会怎样？
... what does the future hold?
所以我们做的很多事情，无论是投资团队还是运营团队，都是找到优秀的人才，投资他们，把他们介绍给我们投资的公司，或者让他们加入a16z的网络。
So a lot of what we do, it's both actually our investing teams and our operating teams, is just finding awesome people and investing in them, connecting them to our companies, otherwise getting them in the a16z network.
所以现在，很多工作就是抓取现有的个人资料和网络，然后做大量的人工工作，去判断谁是最强的连接点，怎么才能促成这件事。
And so right now, a lot of this is scraping these existing profiles and networks and then doing a lot of manual work of going to see who actually is the best strength of connection, how can we make this happen.
我觉得那种真正基于外部信号的人工工作，而且是二元信号而不是细粒度信号的，只会越来越难做。
I think that that kind of manual work that's truly external signal-based, and it's binary signal versus really granular signal, that's only going to get harder.
因为，比如最近，我在LinkedIn上发了个帖子。
Because, for example, recently, I posted on LinkedIn.
我说：“嘿，我很想帮我投资的公司招人。”
I was like, "Hey, I'd love to help my portfolio companies hire.
如果你想在初创公司工作，就填一下这个谷歌表单。
If you want to work at a startup, fill out this Google form."
当它起作用的时候，反而更难，因为我收到了2000份申请，对吧？
When it works, it's almost harder because I get 2,000 results, right?
这太不可思议了。
It's incredible.
而且这种情况会发生在每一个发布职位或任何机会的人身上。
And that's going to happen to every person who posts a job or who posts any kind of opportunity.
现在可能是2000份，一个月后就会变成10000份。
And it's going to be 2,000 now, and it's going to be 10,000 a month from now.
随着浏览器使用体验越来越好，用的人越来越多，这个数字会达到10万。
As browser usage gets better and more people use browsers, it's going to be 100,000.
所以即使我全力使用Astra，又该怎么筛选和分类呢？
And so it's like, even me using Astra at maximum strength, how do you sift and sort?
所以在这个AI带来的无限联系和兴趣的时代，稀缺的是人的背书、人的信念，或者人的知识。
And so in an age, I think of endless kind of outreach and interest with AI, the scarce thing is the human endorsement or the human conviction or the human knowledge.
所以这正是我特别兴奋的地方，因为我觉得Cosign会对社区里的很多人都有价值，也会对我们所做的工作和想要实现的目标非常有价值。
And so that's where I get especially excited because I think Cosign is going to be valuable to hopefully so many people in the community and also very valuable to the work that we do and what we try to do.
对，这确实很有意思。
And yeah, it's interesting.
我们现在基本上只有两种选择：要么是面向全世界的广播网络，要么就是五十人的群聊。
We've sort of gotten to a place where there's only broadcasting networks to the whole world or group chats with 50 people.
中间缺少那种一万人规模、或者经过更严格筛选的社区，而这就是我们起步的地方。
There's not really this 10,000 person or a much more vetted community, and that's where we are to start.
慢慢发展，基本上就是你发一个帖子，然后你会对收到的信息更有信心。
And growing slowly and basically where you put out a post, and you'll just be more confident in the signal that comes in.
回到LinkedIn，我希望它有的一些功能，比如，还记得MySpace的Top 8吗？
Going back to LinkedIn for a second, some things that I wish it had is sort of like, remember MySpace top eight?
我希望商业领域也有这个。
I want that for business.
你和谁一起并肩作战？
Who are you in trenches with?
你经常和谁聊天？
Who do you talk to regularly?
我们的共同好友是谁？
Who are our mutuals?
你是怎么认识他们的？
How do you know them?
你们是怎么认识的？
How'd you meet them?
他们对你有什么看法？
What do they think about you?
就像你说的，它把所有联系都一视同仁，你根本看不到关系背后的背景，也看不到别人的口碑。
There's more sort of, as you said, it treats connections all the same, and you don't really get context on the relationship or context on people's reputation.
LinkedIn 是关于个人身份的。
It's like LinkedIn is about personal identity.
我们希望 Cosign 是关于——抱歉——职业身份的。
We hope that Cosign is about, or sorry, professional identity.
我们希望Cosign是关于职业声誉的。
We hope Cosign is about professional reputation.
LinkedIn呢，他们说是你认识的人。
LinkedIn is about, they say it's people you know.
Twitter是那些有兴趣认识你的人，我们希望Cosign能以更细致的方式把两者都做到。
Twitter is people who are interested in knowing you, and we hope that Cosign delivers both in a more granular way.
同时，也得给LinkedIn点个赞，它二十多年前就起步了。
And at the same time, to give props to LinkedIn, it started 20-plus years ago.
到现在也没人能真正跟它竞争。
And no one's even come close to competing with it in any capacity.
我记得查尔斯·哈德森，一位很棒的投资者，十二年前写过一篇博客，说“LinkedIn的竞争对手在哪里？”
I remember Charles Hudson, a great investor, 12 years ago was a blog post like, "Where are the LinkedIn competitors?
是时候颠覆它了。
It's time to disrupt.
我不喜欢这个产品，原因有很多。
I don't like the product for XYZ reasons.
它做不到这一点。
It doesn't do this."
我们已经见过很多这样的产品了。
And we've seen tons of them.
我们在公司层面支持过它们，也有人加入了加密货币领域。
We've backed them at the firm individually and people joined Crypto.
各种不同的激励措施都试图打破LinkedIn的垄断。
All sorts of different incentives to break LinkedIn.
这真的很令人着迷。
And it's just fascinating.
我说每个人都讨厌它是在开玩笑，但人们确实会频繁使用它，然而它的净推荐值却很低，人们也知道可以有更好的版本，但就是无法撼动它的地位。
I was joking when I said everyone hates it, but people do have, they use it obsessively, and yet they have low NPS on it or something, and they know that a better version can exist, and yet, it's been impossible to disrupt.
但我觉得LinkedIn真正的问题在于，对于那些不积极参与其中、不搜索、不参与社区的人来说，净推荐值其实很高。
But I think the real thing with LinkedIn is I actually think the NPS is really high for the people who aren't actively in the flow and in the searching and in the community.
LinkedIn一直服务于两类用户。
LinkedIn's always served two audiences.
一类是我说的想找人的人，另一类是可能希望在人生某个时刻被人找到的人。
One is I call it the people who want to find people, and the other one is people who want to maybe be found at some point in their lives.
想想看，我们都希望被合适的机会找到——
And when you think about it, all of us would love to be found for the right opportunity-
……机会自己找上门来。
... that comes to us.
很多人可能会很高兴。
A lot of us might be happy.
我们以前常说“勉强算满意的工作状态”。
We used to talk about the mildly happily employed.
因为有很多人喜欢自己正在做的事情。
Because there's a lot of people who they like what they're doing.
他们并不急着换工作。
They're not in any urgent need to go do something else.
但如果合适的机会突然出现，不管是认识的人还是不认识的人推荐的，而且完全符合你的兴趣，你可能会想：“嗯，我是不是该考虑一下？”
But if the right thing popped, whether it was from someone you know or someone you don't know, but it matched all your interests, you might be like, "Hmm, should I actually think about that?"
我可能会考虑一下。
And I might consider it.
但当时可能还是不适合你的人生阶段。
It still may not be right for you in life at the time.
但对于那些还算满意现状的员工来说，如果他们是工程师，他们不会每天刷领英去找新的人或新机会。
But for those mildly happily employed people, if they're an engineer, they're not checking LinkedIn every day for new people or new things.
如果你做销售、做商务拓展、做风投或投资，你会一直用这个平台。
If you're in sales, if you're in BD, if you're in venture, an investor, you're using it all the time.
但这就是它真正特别的地方。
But that was what was really special.
我觉得，随着用户数量达到几千万、几亿，现在可能超过十亿人，那些工作满意但可能对合适机会持开放态度的人，这种网络效应才是真正持久的。
And I think moving tens and tens and tens or hundreds of millions, I think there are over a billion people now, of people who are happily employed, who are maybe open to the right opportunity, that's the kind of network effect that really sticks.
你会经常思考，什么是持续二十年的网络效应。
And you think a lot about what is a 20-year network effect.
看看领英，在你创业的时候，我经常对初创公司说，当你在构思新事物时，你怎么去设想那种能强大二十年的网络效应？
Look at LinkedIn, and as you're building, and I say this a lot to new companies, as you're thinking about something new, how do you think about that kind of network effect that could be so powerful for 20 years?
就算有些人希望有更好的产品，你也无法把大众都迁移过去。
And even if some people wish there was a better product, you can't move the masses over.
我们看过也投资过一些试图取代LinkedIn的公司，我觉得他们做得非常出色的一点是，转换成本非常高，一方面是因为他们在机器人检测方面出了名的厉害。
We have looked at and invested in some attempted LinkedIn killers, and I think what they've done a remarkable job with is the switching costs are just very high, both because they are famously good at bot detection
那倒是。
That too.
所以你不能真正实时抓取它的数据。
So you can't really scrape it in real time.
有很多生意就是靠抓取LinkedIn的数据然后出售这些数据来建立的。
There's whole businesses that are built off of scraping LinkedIn and selling that data.
但另一方面也是因为这是一个非常紧密和密集的网络，最终，如果这关系到你的职业生涯这么重要的事情，你肯定会想待在大家都在的平台上。
But also because it's just such a tight and dense network that ultimately, if it's something as important as your career, you're going to want to be on the platform where everyone else is.
话虽如此，我认为当有新的信息或新的价值出现时，新平台会有巨大的机会——
That being said, I think there's a massive opportunity for a new platform when there is new information or new value-
——去获取或分享这些价值，这非常符合高质量推荐和高信念人群的特点。
... to be kind of gleaned or shared, which is very much high-quality endorsements and high-conviction people.
代际变化，还有细分领域，那些需要自己专属LinkedIn的超细分市场。
Generational shifts, and also niche, the hyper niche that needs its own LinkedIn.
比如说，GitHub可以说是工程师的LinkedIn，甚至比LinkedIn本身还好用。
For example, GitHub is arguably a better LinkedIn for engineers than LinkedIn itself.
那我想说，有没有机会去发现这里的新兴细分领域是什么？
And I'd say, is there an opportunity to say, what is the emergent niche here?
是不是那些想建立自己人才发掘者声誉的人？
Is it the individual who's trying to build their reputation as a talent scout?
他们是不是想成为想要突破的创始人？
Are they trying to be a founder who wants to break through?
有没有可能有一个更好的LinkedIn，能代表他们对人才的品味？
Is there a world for a better LinkedIn that represents their tastes in people?
让我对Cosign感到兴奋的是，它甚至不必非得是一个更好的LinkedIn。
And what gets me excited about Cosign isn't that it has to even be a better LinkedIn.
对，我就是这么说的。
Yeah, that's what I said.
关键在于它真的把所有那些已经在行业里悄悄发生的信息都整合到了一起。
It's that it really pulls together all this information that's already latently happening in our industry.
而且你看，硅谷和科技行业在这一点上特别特别，就是那种‘先付出再回报’的精神，那种对某个人深信不疑的态度，就是我们一开始聊的那些。
And look, Silicon Valley and the tech industry is so special for this kind of pay it forward, for this belief in somebody, the stuff we talked about at the very beginning.
相信一个可能之前没什么名气的人，但他有洞察力、有想法，就凭这个就能聚拢一群人，形成一股势头，然后改变世界。
The belief in this person who may not have had a previously strong reputation, but has an insight, an idea, and that alone can gather a bunch of people and a bunch of momentum and change the world.
这就是为什么这件事这么特别，也是为什么我觉得像LinkedIn这样的平台，现在服务着这么多行业、这么多领域的人，我觉得还有空间去创造一个真正特别的东西，为我们这个社区，把那些转瞬即逝的东西和职业上的东西结合起来——
And that's what makes this so special, and that's what I think these platforms like LinkedIn, serving so many people now across so many industries and so many domains, and I think there's room for something that's really special for the community that we have and that combines the things that are happening ephemerally with the things that are happening professionally-
……再加上那种深度，那就太棒了。
... with the depth that is going to be great.
如果Cosign做得好，哪怕它只服务科技社区，那也已经是个巨大的成功了。
And if Cosign works great, and it still only serves the tech community, that's a huge win.
哦，百分之百同意。
Oh, 100%.
然后如果它还能……
And if it then
其他社区和其他行业的人会发现，他们也应该想办法参与进来，然后——
Other communities and other industries figure out they should figure out how to take part in this too and-
——把硅谷的那种能量带到更多地方，那就更好了。
... and bring some of that Silicon Valley energy to more places, that's even better.
但是，那种“传递善意”的精神，以及“每一个伟大的想法都可能来自一个之前不为人知、但确实有独特见解的人”的理念，这正是我希望这个平台能体现的。
But the pay it forward and the every great idea can just come from somebody who wasn't previously known but truly has a unique insight, that's what I hope this captures too.
Benchmark的Erik在Patrick O'Shaughnessy的播客里说过，当时Patrick问他，大概意思是：“你对每个领域怎么看？”
Erik from Benchmark had this comment in the Patrick O'Shaughnessy podcast where Patrick was asking him sort of like, "What do you think about every category?"
然后他说：“都会成功的。”
And he's like, "It's all going to work."
所有东西都会变得很大。
Everything is going to be huge.
不是每家公司，但作为一个整体，每个领域——我觉得我们也得出了类似的结论。
Not every company, but just as an index, like every cat-- And I think we've come to a similar conclusion.
同样，当人们问：“这个世界还需要另一个播客吗？”
And I think similarly, when people say, "Does the world need another podcast?"
播客太多了。
There's too many podcasts.
哦，又一个好播客出现了，但它不会挤掉其他的。
Oh, and yet another great podcast comes in, and it doesn't kill the other.
就是都能行得通。
It just all works.
所有好的东西都能行得通。
Everything that's great works.
同样，我们刚创办了一所学校。
And similarly, we just launched a school.
斯坦福会没事的。
Stanford's going to be fine.
哈佛也会没事的，我们的项目也会很棒。
Harvard's going to be fine, and our thing's going to be great.
同样，是的，领英也会很棒。
And then similarly, yeah, LinkedIn's going to be great.
它会继续做自己的事情。
It's going to keep doing its thing.
而且我们在很多方面都受到他们的启发。
And we're inspired by them in so many ways.
我们也受到AngelList十年前做法的启发，那时候他们掌握了投资者关系图谱，真正服务于创业社区，重点围绕公司、投资者和人才。
We're also inspired by AngelList 10 years ago when they owned the investor graph, and really it was for the startup community, and it was really focused around companies, investors, and talent.
他们后来做了一系列其他尝试，结果把精力分散到其他方面，或者干脆放弃了曾经存在的免费公共社交网络，而我们认为这是一个可以重新带回来的机会。
And they made a series of other bets that then sort of made them focus on other parts of that or deprecate the free public social network that used to exist and we think is an opportunity to bring back.
另外，在怎么做这件事上，我们也受到维基百科的启发。
And then we're also inspired in terms of how we're going to do this, we're also inspired by Wikipedia.
一方面，人们想要维基百科那样的个人页面，那是他们向往的；另一方面，我们也在为人们创建这样的页面。
One, in terms of people want Wikipedia profiles, they're aspirational, but two, in that we're creating profiles for people.
这就是我们的起点，而且我们认为大家会对此感到兴奋，因为我们会以一种专属的方式替他们宣传，如果他们不想要，我们就会撤下来。
So that's where we're starting, and we think people are going to be excited about it because we're bragging for them on their behalf in an exclusive way, and if they don't want it, we'll take it off.
但你会看到自己的个人页面。
But you're going to see your profile.
这个档案会不断充实，人们会给你点赞，也会表达对你的投资或合作兴趣，甚至在你还没去看档案之前就会这样。
It's going to be fleshed out with people giving you compliments and also people expressing their interest in funding you or working with you or even before you go to the profile.
这就是我们与众不同的方式之一。
And so that's one of the ways in which we're differentiating.
而且只有借助人工智能，我们才能生成关于人们的这些信息，并重新构建一个职业关系网络。
And only because of AI can we generate all of this information on people and recreate a professional graph.
但如果我们不走第三方路线，那就得让人们自己注册。
But if we didn't go that third-party route, then we would have to get people to sign.
这是个冷启动问题。
It's a cold start problem.
这是人们更新自己信息最可靠的地方。
It's the place where people go to update their purposes the most reliable.
人们经常问：“日常行为是什么样的？”
Often people say, "What's the daily behavior?"
我们正在通过覆盖各种转变来强行推进。
Well, we're brute forcing it by covering every sort of transition.
所以我们也会有更可靠的个人资料，附带更多的信誉和好处。
So we'll also have reliable profiles with more reputation and benefits to it.
完全同意。
Totally.
我觉得最好的方式，我很好奇你是否同意，对于消费类产品来说——
I feel like the best, I'm curious if you agree, but for consumer products-
……获取用户最简单的方法就是告诉他们，有人在产品上提到了他们。
... the easiest way to acquire users is to tell them that someone else is saying something about them on the product.
尤其是像尼基塔·比尔那种情况。
Especially if it's something, it's the Nikita Bier.
你的朋友刚刚回答了关于你策略的问题，这个方法已经成功用了三次。
Your friends just answered this question about your strategy, which worked so well three times.
在AI出现之前，像硅谷这么大的网络是不可能做到这一点的，现在可以了，这太棒了。
And it wasn't possible before AI for a network, I think, as big as Silicon Valley, and now it is, which is awesome.
今天有人称我为社区界的尼基塔·比尔。
Someone called me today the Nikita Bier founder of communities.
这真是很高的评价。
It's a real compliment.
这确实是真心实意的夸奖。
That's a true compliment.
所以值得指出的是，所有被收集的信息都来自公开渠道。
So it's worth pointing out, everything that is being pulled in is coming from public sources.
也就是说，都是人们在各种不同平台上发布的内容。
So it's what people have posted on their variety of different places.
这些内容被汇总在一起。
It's being aggregated.
很多融资公告，都是已经对外公布的。
There's a lot of the funding announcements, they're the ones that are being announced.
所以，公开互联网上散布着大量高质量的信息，而我们觉得，这些信息被独特地整合和结构化，集中在一个地方。
So there's a lot of really, really high-quality information that is spread across the publicly available internet, and it's uniquely compiled and structured, we think, in one place.
埃里克提到了AngelList的例子。
And Erik talks about the AngelList example.
我记得在我职业生涯的早期，AngelList 可能是第一个，它就像是我打开硅谷大门的那把钥匙。
I recall very early in my career, AngelList was probably the first, it was like the wedge that I took into the Silicon Valley door.
它让我能看到哪些公司、哪些地区、哪些人在那些公司里，很长一段时间里，感觉它就像是为那些在科技领域有抱负的人准备的 LinkedIn。
It was the ability to see which companies and which geographies, which people at those companies, which for a long time, it felt like it could be the LinkedIn for this sort of little niche of people who were ambitious in technology.
然后，就像 Erik 说的，由于种种原因，它逐渐偏离了这个方向，但那个功能一直缺失。
And then, as Erik said, it sort of moved away from that for a number of reasons, but that's been missing.
它变成了一个创始人可以去的地方，比如你可以想："在接下来的六个月里，在我融资之前，我想认识哪些天使投资人？"
Becomes a place that you can go as a founder who's like, "Which angel investors do I want to get to know over the next six months before my round?"
这是一个公共工具。
It's a public utility.
这一点值得在这里指出。
It's something that's worth pointing out here.
我们正在把这个推向世界。
We're putting this out into the world.
这是我们想和大家一起建设的东西。
It's like a thing we'd like to build with people.
这不是作为完全完成、完美的产品来展示的。
It's not something that's being presented as fully finished, perfect products.
这是一个邀请。
It's an invitation.
这是对所有人的邀请，欢迎大家来编辑和提交对自己或他人资料的更新。
It's an invitation to everybody who wants to come in and edit and submit an update to their own or someone else's profile.
所以这是一个真正的请求，让我们一起为所有人构建这个东西。
So a real ask, let's build this thing together for everyone.
并向人们的资料提交内容。
And submit things to people's profiles.
为你在别人身上认可的东西背书。
Cosign the things you endorse on people.
然后即使有人有反馈，也请为那个反馈背书，这样它就能回到David和团队那里，以便不断改进。
And then even if somebody has feedback, cosign that feedback so that it gets back to David and the team in order to keep improving things.
所以，就以这个更高层面的观点来结束吧，很多行业，也包括其他行业，都是靠背书来运转的。
And so just sort of to end on that sort of higher-level note, a lot of the industry, but also other industries sort of run on cosigns.
保罗·格雷厄姆曾经公开支持过山姆·奥特曼，这事儿挺有名的。
Paul Graham cosigned Sam Altman famously.
我记得大概是2009年那会儿，他说最优秀的五位创业者是史蒂夫·乔布斯、另外三个人，还有山姆·奥特曼。
I feel like 2009 or something, he said the five best entrepreneurs are Steve Jobs, three other people, and Sam Altman.
那时候山姆·奥特曼还没什么特别大的成就，但这句话真的让他的名声一下子起来了，后来他掌管YC等等，这些对他来说都特别关键，也让他后来能创办出这么重要的公司。
And at the time, Sam Altman hadn't had a huge exit yet, but that really just gave him such a reputational boost, him running YC, et cetera, is critical to him than going on to build one of the most important companies of all time.
还有好多例子，比如本·霍洛维茨，还有Databricks的奥利，很多人都是得到了行业里更资深的前辈的认可，然后才得以崭露头角的。
And so many, Ben Horowitz and Oli from Databricks, I mean, so many examples of people who got their cosign from someone older and more senior in the industry and were able to rise up because of it.
瑞安·胡佛，Product Hunt的创始人，他曾经认可过埃里克——
Ryan Hoover, who was the founder of Product Hunt, cosigned Erik-
对
Yes
——然后让埃里克成为社区建设的重要负责人之一，这对你职业生涯早期来说真的是一个特别好的认可，也看到了你的潜力。
... and brought Erik on to become one of the leaders of building the community for everything, and it was such a great endorsement of you early in your career and your potential.
完全同意。
100%.
你看看你后来变成了什么样。
I mean, look at what you've become since.
太了不起了。
It's amazing.
不，我对他感激不尽。
No, I'm massively grateful for him.
而且这真的很吸引人，因为硅谷之所以特别，就在于它非常看重能力，你不一定非得熬上二十年才能被认真对待。
And it's so fascinating because one of the things that makes Silicon Valley so special is how much of a meritocracy it is and how you don't have to necessarily just pay your dues for 20 years before you're taken seriously.
现在最重要的知识分子之一就是Dwarkesh。
One of the most important intellectuals right now is Dwarkesh.
他才25岁。
He's 25 years old.
据我所知，他从来没上过班。
He's never had a job, as far as I'm aware.
他就是来到旧金山，开始做播客，然后有人——我不知道是不是Patrick Collison或者Marc Andreessen——也上过他的节目，很多人早期上他的播客，给他背书，然后说：嘿，这个地方扎克伯格他们也可以来。
He just came to San Francisco, started podcasting, and someone was, I don't know if it's Patrick Collison or Marc Andreessen also went on, a number of people by going on his podcast early, cosigned him and then said, "Hey, this is a place where then Zuck and others can go on."
最重要的创始人之一是迈克尔·特鲁尔，一个二十七八岁的年轻人，等等。
One of the most important founders is Michael Trul, a young guy in his mid to late 20s, et cetera.
最重要的人物之一，利奥波德·阿申布伦纳，我想他也是二十四五岁。
One of the most important people, Leopold Aschenbrenner, is I think 24 or 25 as well.
所以在这个行业里，只要你有才华、够聪明，就会有人发现你，为你背书，然后成就你的事业。
And so it just, if you're- talented, if you're smart in this industry, someone will discover you, cosign you, and make your career.
所以我们希望在我们的平台上也能发生这样的事。
And so we hope that happens on our platform.
既然我们在聊社会资本和正和思维，我觉得有一个相关的批评意见很重要，我想聊聊。有人可能会理直气壮地说：“我为什么要分享这个背书？
While we're talking about social capital and positive sum mindsets, I think it's really important, there's a critique of this that I wanted to talk about where someone might rightfully say, "Well, why would I share this cosign?
这是我的独家优势。
This is my alpha.
我知道那个人很优秀。
I know that person's good.
我为什么要告诉你他们很优秀？”
Why would I tell you they're good?"
我觉得，如果你从长远来看待这个问题，你可以说，当然，如果那个人现在正在筹集种子前轮资金，而你也想这么做，那现在就先别背书给他。
And I think actually, if you take a very long-term view of this, you can say, sure, if that person's raising a pre-seed round right now and you want to do it, don't cosign them right now.
但你想背书的人，是两年后、五年后才去筹集种子前轮资金的那个人。
But the person you want to cosign is the one that's raising a pre-seed round two years from now, five years from now.
等到那时候，他会记得你。
And when they do, they remember you.
他会说，对，我能拿到这笔种子前轮融资，是因为奥利维亚两年前给我背了书。正是她帮我找到了联合创始人，还帮我认识了五个早期相信我的产品的人，所以我才能站在这里。
They say, "Yeah, the reason I'm able to raise this pre-seed round is Olivia cosigned me two years ago, and in doing so, she helped me meet my co-founder, and she helped me meet the five people who were my early believers in my product, and that's why I'm here today.
当然，我会先提到我的种子前轮投资。
And of course, I'm going to call her first my pre-seed round."
如果你换个角度想，采取一个非常长期的心态，这确实是一个需要长期投入的地方，对吧？
And if you turn it around that way and you take a very long-term mindset, this is such a long-term place, right?
完全同意。
100%.
而且好处会源源不断地积累到你身上，因为人们永远会以数量级的差距记住那些最早相信他们的人。
And the benefits just accrue to you in the sense of people always remember by order of magnitude more the people who believed in them first.
布莱恩·切斯基在Airbnb上市的时候，他在博客文章里写的是谁？
Brian Chesky, when he goes public with Airbnb, who does he write in the blog post?
他写的是YC，他的第一个投资人。
He writes YC, his first investor.
他后来得到了那么多投资，那么多钱，那么多时间投入在这家公司上。
He's had so much investment all throughout, so much more money, so much more time into this company.
但你记住的永远是第一个人。
But you remember the first person.
所以如果你是第一个投资人，尤其是公开的那种，因为价值就在那里，他们会记住你，然后会有更多人来找你。
And so if you are the first person, especially publicly, because that's where the value is, because they will remember you for it, and then more people will come to you.
完全同意。
100%.
我们就聊到这里吧。
Let's wrap on that.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢。
Thank you.
感谢收听本期a16z播客。
Thanks for listening to this episode of the "a16z" podcast.
如果你喜欢这期节目，记得点赞、评论、订阅，给我们评分或留言，并分享给你的朋友和家人。
If you liked this episode, be sure to like, comment, subscribe, leave us a rating or a review, and share it with your friends and family.
想听更多节目，可以去YouTube、Apple Podcasts和Spotify。
For more episodes, go to YouTube, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify.
在X上关注我们@a16z，并订阅我们的Substack，地址是a16z.substack.com。
Follow us on X, @a16z, and subscribe to our Substack at a16z.substack.com.
再次感谢收听，我们下期见。
Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode.
提醒一下，这里的内容仅供参考。
As a reminder, the content here is for informational purposes only.
这些内容不应被视为法律、商业、税务或投资建议，也不应用于评估任何投资或证券，并且不针对任何a16z基金的投资者或潜在投资者。
It should not be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice, or be used to evaluate any investment or security, and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund.
请注意，a16z及其关联公司可能也持有本播客中讨论的公司的投资。
Please note that a16z and its affiliates may also maintain investments in the companies discussed in this podcast.
更多详情，包括我们投资的链接，请访问a16z.com/disclosures。
For more details, including a link to our investments, please see a16z.com/disclosures.
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