创业之路：打造初创企业的关键 | Andrew Chen & Matt Perault

这真的是小科技。

This is truly Little Tech.

平均团队规模是两到三个人。

The average team is two to three people.

他们经营公司，不是在办公室，也不是在共享办公空间。

They're running their companies not not in their office, not in the co working space.

而是在厨房的餐桌上。

Are running it at the kitchen table.

对这些创始人来说，他们非常专注于使命，努力让公司生存下去。

For these founders, they are so mission focused trying to survive as a business.

他们真的没有时间参与。

They just don't have time to participate.

他们没有游说者。

They don't have lobbyists.

他们实际上没有被代表。

They're not really represented.

每个州或每个城市是否想要有初创企业，这是一个选择。

It's a choice whether or not each state or each city wants to have startups or not.

从零开始创办一家公司，

What does

实际上是什么样子？

it actually look like to build a startup from day one?

在本期节目中，Matt Perault 与 a16z 的普通合伙人兼 Speedrun 负责人 Chen 坐下来，讨论“小科技”——那些在创业初期的小团队。

In this episode, Matt Perault sits down with a16z general partner and speedrun lead, Chen, to talk about Little Tech, the tiny teams at the very beginning of building a company.

Andrew 分享了那些通常只有两三个人、在厨房餐桌上创业的创始人的生活，他们专注于让产品运转起来并找到第一批客户。

Andrew shares what life looks like for founders who are often just two or three people building from a kitchen table, focused on getting a product to work and finding their first customers.

他们很少拥有说客或政策团队，甚至没有时间参与可能直接影响他们的规则辩论。

They rarely have lobbyists, policy teams, or even the time to participate in debates about rules that could directly affect them.

Matt 和 Andrew 讨论了监管如何影响初创企业选择在哪里发展，政策制定者通过直接听取创始人的意见能学到什么，以及如何创造一个让下一代公司能够起步的环境。

Matt and Andrew discuss how regulation can influence where startups choose to build, what policymakers can learn by hearing directly from founders, and what it takes to create an environment where the next generation of companies can get started.

Andrew，欢迎来到 a16z AI 政策简报。

Andrew, welcome to the a16z AI Policy Brief.

谢谢邀请

Thank you for having

我。

me.

所以，你负责我们的 Speedrun 项目。

So you you lead our Speedrun program.

那你能跟我们简单介绍一下 Speedrun 是什么吗？

So can you tell us a little bit about what Speedrun is?

对。

Yeah.

所以，在座的很多人应该都知道，初创公司总得有个诞生地吧。

So, know, many folks in the audience will know that startups have to come from somewhere.

因此，我们的任务就是要在第一天就找到它们，也就是创始人刚开始构思公司的时候。

And so, you know, our job is to try to find them on day one when the founders are just starting to think about their companies.

所以我们办了一个项目，基地设在旧金山办公室。我们会通过互联网、营销渠道、播客、Substack通讯等所有平台宣布，我们将向全新的初创公司投资高达一百万美元。

And so, what's great is we host a program, you know, based in the San Francisco office where we will announce to the broader internet and through our marketing channels and podcasts and substack newsletters and everything else that we'll be investing up to a million dollars into brand new startups.

我们真正关注的是那些刚刚起步的人。

And the ones that we really focus on are the ones that where folks are just just getting going.

你知道，有些人可能还有全职工作，他们开始和最好的朋友一起想出新点子，想要去创业。

You know, folks that maybe have full time jobs and they're starting to come up with, you know, with with with a new idea with their best friend and they wanna go start something.

也可能是那些已经离职的人，或者刚毕业的学生，他们正在酝酿一些新东西。

It could be folks that are have already left their, you know, roles or or they just graduated from school, and they are are coming up with something new.

我们做的事情就是和他们一起度过十二周。

And so what we do is we spend twelve weeks with them.

他们会得到公司的全力支持和资源，以及我们所有的关系和那些好东西。

They get the full force and and power of the firm and all of our relationships and all of that great stuff.

在我们投资之后，我们会把他们介绍给更广泛的生态圈。

And then after we invest, then we share them with the broader ecosystem.

我们会举办一个Speedrun演示日，有超过一千位天使投资人和种子基金以及很多人来参与投资。

We host a a speedrun demo day where we have over a thousand angel investors and seed funds and many others come and invest.

然后我们就从那里开始，把他们释放到世界上，希望未来有机会继续投资，并与创始人建立一种长期的合作关系。

Then and then we go from there and we kinda release them off in the world, and hopefully we have the opportunity to invest more in the future and to work with with founders as as kind of the beginning of a of a lifelong relationship with them.

这就是我们的想法。

That's that's the idea.

你怎么决定什么样的公司适合加入Speedrun项目？

How do you decide what looks like a company that you wanna have as part of the Speedrun program?

从根本上说，在最初阶段，有很多著名的例子表明想法一直在变。

At its core, in the earliest days, there are just so many famous examples of of the ideas of ideas changing all the time.

你知道吗？

You know?

很多人知道我们每天用的产品Slack，最初其实是一家基于浏览器的视频游戏公司，还有很多其他类似的例子。

Many of you guys know that a product we use every day, Slack, originally started out as a, you know, as as as a browser based, you know, video game company or, you know, or or or and and and many many other examples, you know, you know, down the line.

所以我们从根本上要做的就是投资最优秀的人。

And so what we try to do at at its core is to really just invest in the best people.

我们在寻找那些在过去有独特经历的人。

And so we're looking for folks that have had some really unique experience in you know, in in in their past.

这些经历可以是巨大的体育成就，比如在进入科技行业之前，也可以是创建了一个GitHub仓库，现在已经有成千上万的星标，而且增长非常快。

And and that could be of anything from enormous athletic accomplishments, you know, on their way to a career in tech, or it could be that they started a GitHub, repo that has now thousands of stars and is growing incredibly fast.

或者也可能是一些传统的标志，比如他们上过顶尖大学，在最好的AI公司里学到了非常独特的见解，然后他们准备把这些用到新公司里。

Or it could be some of the traditional markers where they have gone to elite universities and had sort of learned elite, like like incredible unique insights at at some of our best AI companies, and then they're ready to use that in in a new company as well.

我觉得他们非常开放。

I think well, they were very open minded.

所以我们其实大部分成员来自湾区，实际上全美国都有，还有一小部分来自世界其他地方，但主要还是集中在美国。

And so we we actually have, you know, mostly folks out of the Bay Area, actually all over America, a very you know, a a little slice from, you know, other places in the world, mostly mostly focused on The US.

看到来自纽约、得克萨斯、佛罗里达、中西部或其他地方的创始人来到旧金山，体验湾区的生活，这真的很棒。

And it's amazing to watch founders that are from, whether it's, New York or Texas or Florida or Midwest or any of these other places actually come to San Francisco, get to experience kind of what it's like to be in the Bay Area.

我们当然会和他们合作。

We work with them, of course.

很多人会回到自己的家乡继续创业。

And a lot of them go back to their home communities and continue to build their companies.

当然，也有不少人留在湾区，在这里打造下一代科技公司。

And of course, quite a few of them stay in in in the Bay Area as well to build the next generation of tech companies here.

这两种情况我们都很高兴看到。

We're we're very happy when when either either of those happen.

所以我对Speedrun可能参与的公司类型和规模范围挺感兴趣的。

So what is I'm kind of interested in the range of types of sizes of companies that might participate in Speedrun.

听起来小的话，可能就几个人，刚有了个想法，真的是最小的那种，那公司能大到什么程度呢？

It sounds like on the small side, it might be a couple of people who just decided to, who just have an idea, like really the smallest of the small, how large do the companies get?

对，这真的是“小科技”。

Yeah, this is truly Little Tech.

你知道，当我们说“小科技”的时候，指的就是这个。

Know, when we talk about Little Tech, this is it.

我觉得平均团队规模就是两三个人。

This is, you know, I think the average team is two to three people.

他们不是在办公室或者共享空间里运营公司。

You know, they are running their companies not in their office, know, not in a co working space.

他们就是在厨房的餐桌上运营的。

They are running it, you know, at the kitchen table.

其实，我们在整个美国工业中看到的很多成功，都是源于这些非常小的地方。

It's really sort of the the the source of a lot of the success that we've seen in the overall, you know, American industry has been you know, really starts in these very small places.

然后呢，我们最多投资一百万美元，之后希望他们在演示日能筹到更多资金，继续发展下去，最终成为优秀的企业，成为行业的支柱。我们想从第一天起就陪伴他们走过这段旅程。

And, you know, and then and then, yeah, then we we invest up to a million dollars, and then hopefully hopefully they raise more at demo day, and hopefully they keep going, and and eventually they become incredible employers and, you know, pillars of of of the industry, and and and we're we're we wanna be with them from that journey from day one.

那什么样的公司规模太大，不适合申请Speedrun呢？

And what are organizations that would be too large to apply for a speedrun?

就是说，上限在哪里？

Like, what's the upper bound?

对，上限。

Yeah, the upper bound.

说实话，对我们来说，一旦你从别处拿了投资，我们就会考虑这个。

I mean, honestly, for us, we would say as soon as you've taken capital elsewhere, you know, we we would consider that.

也许不是直接取消资格，但可能会有点，嗯，怎么说呢。

Not maybe not disqualifying, but it would be sort of like, you know, maybe.

所以你就到了这样一个点：问题是，你能让多少人一起白手起家创办公司？

So so you're kinda at a point where the question is, well, how many folks can you get to bootstrap the company together?

所以如果你有五个朋友，一起上过大学，彼此非常信任，愿意自掏腰包花六个月时间做点事情，那我们当然很乐意支持这样的团队，尤其是信任度这么高的团队。

So if you have a group of five friends that all, you know, went to went to college and and they trust each other a lot and they wanna spend six months, like, on their own dime working on something, like, of course, we would love to, you know, back a team like that, especially one with that much trust.

但很少见，我们很少会看到一个团队在那个阶段超过三、四、五个人。

But rare very rarely would we see a team above, you know, three, four, five people at that point.

到某个时候，你其实不太想把公司的股权分得太散，尤其是因为人来人往的。

At some point, you know, you kinda don't wanna you don't wanna divide the company's ownership to be too small, especially because people come and go.

你可能需要——你知道，有些人的生活状况决定了你确实得给他们发工资。

You probably need to you know, some people's life situations will be such that you'll need to actually pay them.

所以，是的。

And so, yeah.

所以，我们再说一遍，真的，通常就是两三个人一起干的事。

So, we again, really, it's like a two or three person thing, typically.

对。

Mhmm.

所以，你们是在公司生命周期的不同阶段进行投资。

So, invest at different phases of company life cycles.

我们有一个增长团队，那是当公司开始变大时介入的。

We have a growth team, that's when companies tend to get larger.

我们有风投团队，专门投资那些规模还比较小的公司。

We have a venture team when companies are smaller.

你描述的Speedrun，就像是科技领域里最小最小的那种。

Speedrun, you're describing it, is like the littlest of the little tech.

作为一家公司，为什么你们觉得支持这个阶段的生命周期很重要？

Why did we as a firm, why did you decide that this was an important part of the life cycle to support?

对。

Yeah.

我觉得，a16z Speedrun的使命，在我看来，就是尽可能接近创始人真正诞生、新公司真正创立的那个时刻。

I think that the way I see the mission for for a16z speedrun is that we're in the you know, we wanna get as close as possible to the moment that founders are actually created and new companies are created.

我在公司头几年，主要做的是A轮和B轮的投资。

You know, my first couple years at the firm, I spent more in series a, series b.

那时候你写支票，面对的是比较成熟的企业，或者至少已经有点业务雏形了。

And so you're writing checks there where these are, you know, mature mature businesses, or there's at least a glimmer of of a business there.

所以你会投个一千五百万、两千万美元这样的规模。

And so you're investing $10.15, $20,000,000.

所以到那个时候，你已经有客户了，有数据可以看，有团队，等等。

And so by that point, you know, yeah, you have customers, you have you have you have metrics to look at, you have a team, etcetera.

而且那是一个很好的投资时机。

And and that's a wonderful place to invest.

从历史上看，这可能是最好的投资时机。

And historically, it's been maybe the best place to invest.

对我们来说，最神奇的事情之一，也是我个人感到非常自豪和兴奋的，就是我们不只是等着创业者来到a16z门口，而是真正在帮助创建这些公司。

For us, one of the really magical things, something that I take a lot of just personal pride and excitement in, is the idea that we are not just waiting for entrepreneurs to show up at our doorstep at at a16z, but we're actually helping create the companies in the first place.

比如，在上一期Speedrun中，有70家公司。

So for example, in the last Speedrun batch, there were 70 companies.

在这70家里面，大概有十几家，这些人都有全职工作，他们不得不交回笔记本电脑和工牌，我们甚至都没法把钱转过去，因为他们连公司都还没注册。

And of the 70, there was probably a dozen where, you know, these were folks that had full time jobs, and they had to turn in the laptops and their badges, and we couldn't even wire the money over because, they didn't have a company to even incorporate.

所以我们有点像在帮助孕育这个想法，比如，让我们创造一条最强大、最好的创业之路。

And so we sort of helped incept these the idea of like, hey, let's create the most powerful and best path to starting the company.

我觉得很多这样的创始人最终还是会创业的。

And I think a lot of those founders eventually would have eventually started businesses.

作为创始人，有时候你就是没法把那个念头从脑子里赶走。

When you're a founder, sometimes you just can't get that bug out of your ear.

但我愿意相信，我们可能把其中一些行动提前了。

But I would like to think that we we maybe, you know, pulled some of that activity forward.

所以很多人可能本来会再等五到十年的工作经验和财务稳定，你知道，也许他们就会迈出那一步。

And so many folks that maybe would have waited another for another five or ten years of work experience and financial stability, you know, maybe they would have taken that that that jump.

而且在AI时代，这真是个绝佳的时机，鼓励他们在合适的时刻跳进来。

And and what an amazing time in the AI era, you know, to encourage them to to, you know, jump in at at the right moment.

你能具体描述一下，Speedrun公司的一天是什么样的吗？

Can you give a little texture to what a day in the life looks like for a speedrun company?

比如，当他们参与项目时，他们的日常是怎样的，既作为项目的一部分，然后我猜你也会看到，你知道，肯定有很高的差异性，但你觉得在这个阶段的创始人有什么共同点？

Like, when they're part of the program, what does their day to day look like both as part of the program and then I assume you see, you know, again, there's like high levels of variance, I'm sure, but like what are the kind of the common things that you see about founders who are operating at this stage?

是的，当然。

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

所以，如果你能在脑海里想象一下，可能有两个创始人，他们原本在德克萨斯州的奥斯汀，在芝加哥，在随便哪个城市。

So, if you can kinda picture in your head, you might have two founders that are originally, they're based in Austin, Texas, they're based in Chicago, they're based in Pick Your City.

我们也有来自犹他州的团队。

We we also have had teams teams from, you know, from Utah.

我们有来自美国各地的团队。

We've had teams from from from all of all over The US.

不少来自纽约，也有不少来自太平洋西北地区。

Quite a few from New York, quite a few from from Pacific Northwest as well.

想象一下，两个人被这个项目录取了，他们非常兴奋，需要注册公司，钱也会打进来。

So kind of imagine you two people, they get accepted to this program, they're very excited, they have to incorporate the company, they get the money, it gets wired in.

他们这辈子都没见过这么多钱。

They've never seen that much money in their life.

对吧？

Right?

他们很兴奋。

Like, they're excited.

对吧？

Right?

所以他们买了机票，来到旧金山，通常我们会准备一份欢迎来到旧金山的指南，里面推荐了一些社区。

So so they buy they buy they buy plane tickets, they come to San Francisco, and they typically you know, what we'll do is we have a we literally have a welcome to SF guide that is, these are the neighborhoods we recommend.

告诉你怎么在Airbnb上选合适的房子。

Here's how you go on Airbnb and, you know, pick the right ones.

他们照做，我们努力营造一个社区氛围。

And so they do that, and we try to create a community.

我们有各种Slack群和邮件列表，你还能认识其他创始人。

And so we have all these Slack instances and email lists, and you're meeting other founders.

回到你的一天，想象一下创始人醒来时的情景。

And so, back to your kind of a day in the life of you, you kind of imagine a founder, you know, waking up.

在项目期间，他们通常和联合创始人住在一起。

They're often, you know, for the duration of the program, they're roommates with their with their cofounder.

所以你们真的是24小时都待在一起。

So you're you're you are spending twenty four seven together, like, truly.

你知道，你住的地方并不豪华。

You know, you're not you're not living somewhere fancy.

你们住的地方，通常可能离A16z办公室比较近。

You're you're you're somewhere, you know, typically, like, maybe close to the A16z office.

很多人要么在家一起工作，我们也会提供A16z办公室的使用权限。

A lot of these folks are either working together at their at their homes, and we also offer access to the a16z offices.

所以有时候他们会走路、打Uber或者坐Waymo到办公室，然后我们有几个共享办公空间，他们会在那里待着。

So sometimes they'll, you know, end up walking in or taking an Uber in, taking a Waymo into the office, and then they end up in we have a couple co working spaces where they'll where you'll spend time.

他们真正应该花时间做的唯一一件事，就是搞清楚这个生意能不能成。

And and the only thing that they should be spending time on really is just to figure out is is this business gonna work?

就是说，他们得把产品做出来，还得把产品卖出去。

Like, how do we they gotta build the product, and they gotta sell the product.

而且他们得在短时间内完成这些。

And and they gotta and they they gotta do it in a short period of time.

所以通常会有两个联合创始人。

And so so typically, you'll have maybe two cofounders.

一个更偏向商业方面。

One will be more of a business cofounder.

另一个则更偏向技术和产品方面的联合创始人。

One will be more of a, you know, technology and product cofounder.

技术和产品联合创始人现在通常大量使用AI，尤其是AI编程。

The technology and product cofounder is typically using a lot of AI right now, a lot of AI coding.

所以，与其出去增加很多成本，或者外包一部分编码工作，或者雇一堆年轻人来写代码，你不如专注于，嘿，

So rather than, you know, going out and needing to add a lot of cost and and, you know, maybe outsourcing, you know, parts of your your coding or hiring a bunch of, you know, young people to to to to to do coding, you can just focus on just, you know, hey.

现在一两个人能有多高效？

How effective can one or two people be, you know, right now?

咱们先让这个业务稳定下来，活下来。

And, like, let's just make this business stable and survive.

然后再去雇一批人。

Let's then let's go hire a bunch of folks.

而业务联合创始人则经常在外面采访客户、跟客户聊天，努力促成交易。

Then the business cofounder is often out there interviewing customers, talking to customers, trying to make deals happen.

所以我们经常看到这种分工：一个是对外的业务联合创始人，另一个是对内的产品和技术的创始人。

And so there's there's often this dichotomy that we see of kind of like, the the the outwards facing business cofounder and then the inwards facing product and technology founder as well.

我们在Speedrun的做法是，每周一次，我们会安排一些正式的活动。

What we do with Speedrun is once per week, we end up having some formal programming.

所以我们希望确保公司有尽可能多的时间去工作，但我们会每周叫他们来一次。

So we wanna make sure the companies have as much time to work as possible, But we will call them in once per week.

他们会来a16z的办公室。

They come to the a16z office.

通常我们会请一位演讲者，你知道，我们请过一些非常了不起的创始人。

We'll typically have a speaker who is You know, we've had some amazing, amazing founders.

比如Zynga或Vercel的创始人。

You know, the founder of Zynga or Vercel.

我们还请过OpenAI的高管。

We've had the, you know, c level folks from OpenAI.

当然，马克·安德森和本·霍洛维茨也多次和我们在一起。

We've had, you know, we've had, of course, Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz with us many times as well.

那总是非常棒的。

You know, that that's always fantastic.

然后我们会安排这些答疑时间，他们会分成二三十家公司一组，互相交流，讨论他们正在尝试解决的问题。

And then we do these office hours where they will sit in a group of twenty, thirty companies and and, you know, they will they will talk to each other about solve problems they're trying to solve.

所以我们举办这些答疑时间，讨论的内容从招聘你的第一批员工，到签下第一批客户，如何在社交媒体上发布，以及向大型企业销售和向中小企业销售有什么区别，等等所有你需要做的事情。

So we run these office hours, we talk about everything from hiring your first, you know, your your first employees to signing your first customers, how do you launch on social media, how do you what's the difference between selling into a large enterprise versus selling into SMB, you know, all the things that you do.

当然，还有大家都在怎么用人工智能？

And of course, how how is everyone using AI?

大家都在用什么新工具？

You know, you know, what what are all the new tools that everybody's using?

我们在这方面也花了很多时间。

We spend a lot of time on that as well.

然后，希望这一周剩下的时间里，他们能出去工作，沉浸在旧金山科技生态圈的氛围中。

And then and then, yeah, and then and then hopefully the rest of the week, they are they're out and about working, and they're being immersed in kind of the milieu of the the SF Tech ecosystem.

所以他们会见到很多人，认识很多投资人，学到所有这些。

So they're meeting a ton of people, meeting a ton of investors, learning all of that.

然后，是的。

And and so, yeah.

所以我们非常兴奋，因为短短几周内就能发生这么多事情。

So we're we're we're very excited about just everything that can happen in in just in in just a couple weeks.

我知道，显然，最让人兴奋的话题是成功，也就是生态系统里成功的那部分。

So I know, like, obviously, the most exciting thing to talk about is success, the success part of the ecosystem.

但在风投领域，其实有很多不成功的情况。

But in venture, like, there's a lot of not success.

对吧？

Right?

这算是这个行业的本质吧。

It's like sort of the the nature of the business.

而且我猜

And I assume

大部分情况都是这样。

The majority of the business.

而且你越往早期走，这个现象就越明显，不成功的公司就越多。

And and and the earlier you go in the life cycle, the more true that is, the more companies don't succeed.

那么对于速跑项目的参与者来说，这具体是什么情况呢？

So what does that look like for speedrun participants?

比如，当公司通过项目进来，但最终没能成功创业，至少没能像我们在项目中资助的那样成功，那会怎样？

Like, when companies come through the program and then they're not able to launch a successful business, at least the one that that that we funded as part of the program.

这条路看起来是什么样的？

What does that pathway look like?

对。

Yeah.

没错。

That's right.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得从历史上看，在整个风险投资行业里，通常有个通俗的说法，就是大概一半的公司最终都做不成。

I think historically in in the venture capital business overall, you often you know, the the the the colloquial description is something like half the companies, you know, don't don't work out at all.

对吧？

Right?

它们就直接倒闭了。

They just kind of outright, you know, fold.

然后，如果十家公司里有五到十家是这样，那还会有两三家能让你赚点小钱。

Then you'll have another, you know if if that's if that's like five and ten companies, you'll have another, you know, two or three where you make a little money.

而所有的钱其实都来自那最顶尖的十分之一，就是那十分之一里真正能让你大获全胜的那一家。

And then all all all the money is made in that kind of top top decile, you know, the the one the one out of 10 that really where you get where you get the grand slam.

这在数学上似乎就是如此，真是令人惊叹。

And that just seems to be true mathematically, which is which is, you know, just amazing.

几十年来一直如此稳定。

It's been very consistent over many decades.

所以，回到你的问题，关于那些倒闭的公司，会发生什么？

So, you know, to to to your question that on on, you know, what happens to the to the ones that fold?

其实会有很多好事发生。

Well, a bunch of great things happen.

对吧？

Right?

首先，虽然我们公司赚钱靠的是那些突破性的、符合幂律分布的顶尖公司，但我们的声誉是靠和所有创始人合作建立的，他们每周工作一百个小时，非常努力。

I mean, first, like, we we think that even though we as a firm make the money on the, you know, on on on the power law kind of exceptional companies that break through, you know, we make our reputations with how we work with all the founders that are, you know, working hard, working a hundred hours a week.

他们完全投入其中。

They're, you know, they're they're they're completely plugged in.

他们周末也在工作，全身心投入。

They're working weekends, like the whole thing.

但就是没有成功。

And and it just doesn't work out.

你知道吗？

You know?

有时候这根本不是他们的错。

And sometimes it's to no fault of their own.

有时候只是市场下行。

Sometimes there's just a market downturn.

比如，他们在大家都转向人工智能的时候创办了一家非人工智能公司，或者是因为联合创始人病了，或者是因为各种可能发生的事情。

You know, they're starting a pre AI company when everybody's going AI, it's because are, know, their co founder got sick, you know, it's because of all these kind of, you know, like many, many different potential things that could happen.

所以结果就是，我们能给这些公司做的最好的事情，第一，我们是不是应该再次支持这些创始人？

And so as a result, the the best thing we can do for those companies is number one, should we back the founders again?

你知道，我觉得硅谷那种心态里特别的一点就是，好吧，没问题。

You know, that's that's like one, I think, very special thing about about kind of that Silicon Valley mentality is like, okay, great.

你已经花了大概一百万美元来教这些创始人怎么创业，希望他们能再创一个公司。

You've already you've you've just spent, you know, a million bucks educating these founders about how to start a company, hopefully, they can start another company.

而且，不管你说的是Uber还是Slack，还是微软或者OpenAI，或者任何这些公司，当你看看其中的CEO和创始人，很多时候，他们一路上都参与过很多其他事情。

And by the way, like, whether you're talking about Uber or Slack or, you know, Microsoft or OpenAI or any of these companies, and when you look at the the CEO and the founders involved, very frequently, more than more often than not, they have been involved in many other things along the way.

所以我们经常喜欢这个想法，而且实际上就在上周，我们刚刚再次资助了一个创始人，他的新想法比第一个更好，尽管他最后只返还了一点点他花掉的资金。

And so we often love the idea of and we just did actually just last well, just just actually last week, we we just funded a founder again on a better idea than than his first idea even though even though he he ended up just returning a little bit of the capital that that he spent.

所以我觉得这很棒。

So so I I think I think that's great.

另一种情况是，有时候这些创始人需要稍微充充电。

The other version is some sometimes, you know, these founders, they need a little bit of a recharge.

对吧？

Right?

这意味着他们全力以赴，投入了百分之一百五十的精力。

And what that means is they are they they they went at it, like, completely just a 150%.

他们需要的是时间来重建自己的财务状况。

And what they need is they need a little bit of time to rebuild their finances.

他们可能之前给自己的薪酬并不高。

They need to you know, they probably weren't paying themselves that well.

他们可能需要时间来关注自己的健康。

They probably weren't you know, they needed some time to focus on their health.

我们发现很多这样的创始人变得非常抢手，因为你能找到一个人，工作努力，能处理非结构化的问题，对最新技术了如指掌，而且你能把他招进你的公司。

You know, we find that a lot of these founders become very hot commodities because that means that you can get somebody that works hard, you know, works on unstructured problems, is completely current on all of the newest technology, and you can get them, you know, at your company.

所以我们看到很多团队最终会互相招聘对方的人。

And so what we've been seeing is a lot of a lot of teams will end up hiring hiring each other.

如果某个项目不成功，你可能会尊重那位创始人。

You know, if one doesn't work out, you kinda like but you respect the founder.

太好了。

Like, great.

你就把他们招进来。

You you hire them.

然后他们可能跟你一起干个两三年。

And then maybe they spend, you know, two or three years with you.

也许他们会带领一些新的项目，开发你业务里的新产品。

Maybe they'll lead some new initiatives, new products in your in your business.

然后几年后，他们又出来，准备再创业。

And then a few years later, they spin out and they're ready to start a new company.

然后希望我们a16z能再有机会跟他们合作。

And then hopefully, we as a16z get another shot at them, you know, to work together.

所以，是的。

So, yeah.

所以这基本上都是设计好的，我觉得结果也完全在预料之中。

So that's sort of all by design, and I think it's perfectly expected, you know, as outcomes.

我们就是想跟这些创始人整个职业生涯都保持合作关系。

And we just wanna partner with these founders for their for their whole professional career.

那么，我现在很想转到政策话题上，因为这是政策专题。

So, I I'd love to turn to policy now since we're this is policy substandard.

这就是政策。

This is the policy.

对。

Yeah.

看，我明白。

See, I understand.

是的。

Yeah.

政策简报。

Policy Brief.

我们开始吧。

Let's do it.

所以，我很想了解更多你合作的公司是如何看待政策问题的。

And so, I'd love to, like, understand more about how the companies you work with think about policy issues.

这显然是我们某种程度上已经在做的事情，但你每天都在亲身经历创始人的那一面。

This is something that we obviously do to some extent, but you're like living and breathing the founder side of it on a daily basis.

我们也尝试过用不同的方式来传达这个概念。

And we've tried to kind of channel the concept in different ways.

比如我们最近写了一篇文章叫《车库里的绿色》，讲的是如果几个人走进车库去打造加州下一个伟大的科技工具，从政策角度看会是什么样子。

Like we recently wrote this piece called Greens from a Garage about what it looks like from a policy perspective if a couple of people go into a garage to build the next great tech tool in California.

他们需要面对怎样的监管环境？

What is the regulatory landscape that they have to deal with?

这真的是一次很有帮助的练习，因为政策团队和法律团队往往只会考虑增量负担。

And it was a really helpful exercise because often policy teams, legal teams will think about just incremental burden.

比如，如果通过了一项新提出的法律。

Like, if we pass there's a new law that's been proposed.

如果我们通过了这项新法律，会发生什么？

What happens if we pass this new law?

它会带来多大的负担，或者不会？

How onerous or not is it gonna be?

那它到底有多大帮助呢？

How helpful is it gonna be?

我觉得我们州团队负责人凯文在构思这篇文章时有个很深的见解，就是这不仅仅是新增的负担。

And I think the insight that our the head of our state team, Kevin, had in when we were thinking about this piece is like, it's not just the it's not just the incremental burden.

而是创始人从开始用技术构建的那一刻起，就要面对的所有事情。

It's all the things that a that a founder has to face from the moment they're building with the technology.

比如在加州，这不只是去年通过的SB 53法案。

So like in California, that doesn't just mean SB 53, which was passed last year.

还包括之前那个会期提出的所有数据来源要求。

It means all these data provenance requirements from the session before.

还有加州几年前通过的隐私法。

It means privacy law in California that was passed several years before.

这些都是累积起来的。

It's all cumulative.

而且你一开始构建工具，就得遵守所有这些规定。

And the moment that you start building the tool, you have to comply with all these things.

所以，实际上，政策层面的情况是所有这些东西的综合。

And so, really the the policy picture is the composite of all those things.

不是其中任何一个单独的问题。

It's not any individual one of them.

所以我很好奇，你，比如说，当你们处在那个阶段，就像你们真的在，我们刚在咖啡店见面。

So I'm curious what you, like, you know, when you're at the stage, like you're literally at the, like, we just met in the coffee shop.

我们，你知道，我们就在车库里。

We're, you know, we're we're in the garage.

我们是室友。

We're roommates.

我们在去a16z办公室的共享Waymo上。

We're in the shared waymo on the way to the a16z office.

在那个阶段，和你一起工作的人是怎么看待政策问题的？

At that phase, how do the people that you work with think about policy issues?

对这些创始人来说，他们非常专注于使命，对吧，就是要把公司做起来，把产品做出来。

For these founders, they are so mission focused, right, to just make their company, make their product.

我的意思是，那时候它甚至还不算一家公司。

I mean, it's not even a company at that point.

他们可能只把它当作一个项目或者一个产品。

It's like they might even think of that as a project or as a product.

你知道，根本没有什么公司，就是两个人或者几个伙伴在努力把事情做成。

You know, there's no company because it's just the two guys or gals trying to make things work.

所以从政策角度来看，我觉得他们一路上遇到的每一个障碍，哪怕只是为了证明他们的初始产品能行，都会增加阻力，这还算好的。

And so for them from a policy perspective, look, I think every every obstacle that is put in front of them along the way for them to to just prove that their initial product can even work just adds friction, for the best part.

所以我觉得大多数创始人，当你跟他们聊的时候，他们真的会把那些事情看作是，哇，天哪。

So I think think most of the founders, when you when you talk to them, they really see all that stuff as like, oh, wow.

我已经注册公司了。

I've incorporated.

我在做这件事。

I'm doing this thing.

我在招人。

I'm hiring these people.

好的。

Okay.

你拿到这么厚一摞文件。

You get the stack of paperwork this big.

而且，你知道，很多这些法律和文件都是为比他们大得多的公司设计的。

And, you know, a lot of these laws, a lot of the paperwork is designed for companies that are much, much larger than them.

对吧？

Right?

那些公司有能力合规，因为他们有律师团队和专家团队，你知道，都在里面。

And have the ability to comply because they have teams of lawyers and teams of, you know, people, experts, you know, that that are that are in there.

当然，我们作为16z也尽量帮助他们。

And, course, we we as a 16 z try to try to help them.

但对大多数人来说，他们只是想先起步，然后作为企业生存下去。

But for for for for most of these folks, all they're trying to do is they're just trying to to to get going at all and and to survive as as a business.

所以，一般来说，他们在监管方面的互动通常是负面的，因为这些监管措施往往是为大科技公司或行业其他部分提供保护的，而这些正是他们试图颠覆的。

And so, generally, their their interaction on on kind of the regulatory, you know, side of the world is usually negative because these are things that are, you know, that actually create protections often for either big tech or for, other other parts of the industry that they that they, you know, end up end up trying to disrupt.

所以我觉得这算是其中一个主要方面。

So I'd say that that's kind of one major part.

另一个方面是，对这些创始人来说，他们真的没时间参与。

The other part part is is that, you know, for many of these founders, they they just don't have time to participate.

对吧？

Right?

他们不像那些大公司，他们没有说客。

They don't, like, these guys, like, don't have, you know, they they don't they don't have lobbyists.

他们也没有参与政治进程。

They don't have, you know, they're not they're not they're not involved in the political process.

他们在这些方面真的没什么代表，因为坦白说，他们就是没时间。

They're not really represented in in in in all these ways because frankly, they just don't have time.

你知道吗，他们可能连洗澡的时间都没有，更别说好好吃顿晚饭了。

You know, they're They may not even have time to shower or to, you know, get like have a nice dinner for themselves.

他们工作那么拼命，更别提去做那些日常生存之外的事情了，那时候真的就是只顾得上活着。

They're working, you know, that hard, much less to do things that are kind of sit sit outside, you know, they're kind of just day to day or just survival, you know, at that that point.

而且这个问题会不断累积。

And that's a compounding thing.

我觉得这是我们经常遇到的情况，因为我们代表的是小科技公司，但我自己并不是创始人。

I mean, I think that's a dynamic that we encounter all the time because we, you know, we show up and we represent Little Tech, but we're not, or I'm not a founder.

所以当我们出现时，人们会说，我们更想和创业公司直接谈。

And so when when we show up, people are like, we would we'd rather talk to the startup.

我们不想和创业公司的投资人谈。

We don't wanna talk to the investor in the startup.

但挑战在于，就像你说的，创业公司的人连洗澡的时间都没有，每周工作一百个小时，他们不可能开车去萨克拉门托，或者飞往华盛顿、布鲁塞尔，去代表他们在当前监管环境下创业的艰辛。

But the challenge is the like as you're saying, like the startups are not showering, working a hundred hour weeks, like doing they're they're they're not gonna go and like make the drive to Sacramento or the flight to Washington or flight to Brussels and represent what it's like for them to try to build under the in in the current regulatory environment.

没错。

That's right.

对。

Yeah.

而且他们的时间线，一个两人创业公司的时间线，不仅不是一年，你可能一年后都不知道公司还在不在。

Well, and and and their timeline, a start up a two person start up's timeline, not only is it not a year, like, you may not know if you have a company in a year.

对吧？

Right?

可能连六个月都撑不到。

It may not even be six months.

甚至可能三个月都不到。

It may not even be three months.

你知道吗？

You know?

你可能就是在非常短的时间周期里工作。

You you might, like, be working on really small time time schedules.

所以，要投入精力去飞到那些地方，参与其中，我觉得真的很难挤出时间来做这件事。这也是为什么我认为有某种机制来代表这些人非常重要，因为他们就是未来的就业创造者。

And so to make the investment to, yeah, to fly to one of these places and to, you know, kinda be involved, I do think it's really hard to carve out time to do it, which is why I think both it's really important to have some mechanism to represent these people, because, you know, like these are the future job creators.

这些公司将来会雇佣很多人，推动美国在科技领域继续取得成功。

Like these are the companies that are gonna employing folks and driving, continuing America's success on the technology field.

但除此之外，那些可能真的出现在这些地方、为科技发声的人，会带来一种非常片面的视角，因为你听不到小科技公司的声音，但可能会听到很多大科技公司的声音。

But also, on top of that, the folks that maybe do show up and and, you know, in in all these places and do advocate for tech, you get a very skewed view because you you don't hear from Little Tech, but you might hear a lot from big tech.

你知道，你可能会听到很多关于“哦，是的”的说法。

You know, you might hear a lot about Oh, yeah.

很多来自那些正在被颠覆的行业，而很少来自那些三十多岁、日夜努力想要实现这一切的人。

A lot from, you know, the industries that are getting disrupted and very little from the, you know, the 30 year olds that are, you know, that that are spending night and day trying to to make that happen.

所以，有时候当我们提出这一点时，政策制定者会给我们很敌对的反应。

So, sometimes we actually get hostile reactions from policymakers when we raise that point.

他们会说，嗯，整个行业都同意这一点。

Like, they'll say, well, all of industry agrees on this.

当他们说整个行业时，他们指的是大科技公司，或者有时可能是大型金融服务公司，比如大型组织。

And when they say all of industry, what they means is big tech companies or sometimes it might be big financial services companies, like large organizations.

他们说，你有不同的看法，我们需要你加入我们。

And they say, you have a different view and we need you to get on board.

我们会在政策对话中说，这在一定程度上是设计使然，至少有一部分时间是如此。

And we'll say in the policy conversation, like it's sort of by design, at least some percent of the time.

有很多时候我们同意大科技公司的观点，但当我们不同意时，我们会说，这是设计使然，我们代表的是生态系统的不同部分。

Like there's lots of time where we agree with big tech companies, but we'll, like when we disagree, we'll say like, it's by design, we're representing a different part of the ecosystem.

所以，当然，我们不是在所有事情上都意见一致。

So, of of course, we don't agree on everything.

对。

That's right.

对。

That's right.

当然。

Absolutely.

当然。

Absolutely.

是的。

Yeah.

从投资回报率、时间投入的角度来看，这根本说不通。

It's just from an ROI, time ROI standpoint, it just doesn't doesn't make any sense.

我觉得还有一个很特别的地方，因为这些团队规模很小，而且正处于起步阶段，所以他们可以选择公司从哪里开始。

I I think there's also a really unique thing because these teams are so small and they're kind of at the their inception, which is they get to pick where they start the company from.

对吧？

Right?

而且，你知道，我2007年搬到了湾区。

And, you know, I I was you know, I moved to the Bay Area in in 2007.

2007年的时候，整个世界都围着帕洛阿尔托、山景城和半岛那一带转。

And in 2007, the world revolved around, you know, Palo Alto and Mountain View and kind of the Peninsula.

就是我们所说的硅谷。

Know, what we what we think of as Silicon Valley.

但你知道，现在大家应该都熟悉了，我们看到创业生态系统的中心从半岛大规模迁移到了旧金山市中心。

But, you know, I think folks I think are familiar with this now that we saw a, you know, whole scale migration of the start up the center of the startup ecosystem being from the Peninsula to to San Francisco proper.

然后，你知道，后来我们又看到它扩散开来，纽约现在成了其中一个巨大的创业中心。

And then, you know, subsequently, we've seen it now spread where, you know, New York is one of now one of the huge, you know, startup hubs that's emerged.

而且，你知道，在过去几年里，所有主要的风险投资公司都在伦敦和欧洲各地开设了办公室。

And, you know, all the over the last couple years, all the major venture capital firms had opened offices in, you know, in various places in London and Europe.

还出现了其他一些重要的中心。

There's been other major hubs that are created.

所以我觉得还有一件挺有意思的事，那就是这几乎成了创业公司最重要的选择之一，就是你要在哪里扎根，从哪里招人，在哪里做这些事。

So I think there is also an interesting thing where that almost becomes part of one of the most important choices that you can make as a startup, which is where are you gonna plant roots, where are you gonna hire people from, where are gonna do that.

而且如果你做的是AI公司，从第一天就知道会有很多关于怎么用AI的额外规定，你知道，那些创业的男男女女，他们流动性很强。

And if you end up working on an AI company, and you know from day one that there's gonna be a bunch of extra rules about how you can use AI, You know, the the two guys, two gals, you know, startup, you know, they're very mobile.

他们可以选择想去哪里，而且他们确实会这么做。

You know, they can they can can pick and choose where they wanna go, and and they do.

所以从历史上看，湾区一直从这种流动性中受益。

And so and and historically, the Bay Area has benefited from from that mobility.

我觉得有一些挺有意思的数据，比如将近50%的风险投资支持的创业公司是由第一代移民创立的。

I think I think there's some interesting stats about how nearly 50% of venture backed startups are first generation immigrants, for example.

就是那些为了创业而搬过来的人。

You know, people who who relocate in order to do it.

我敢打赌，如果你说，好吧。

And I bet you if you were to say, okay.

那另外50%里，有多少是真正的旧金山本地人，又有多少是搬过来的呢？

Well, the other 50%, how many of them are actually native San Franciscans versus people who, you know, move here?

答案可能是，那时候几乎接近百分之百了。

The answer would be, you know, it's probably approaching a 100% at that point.

我觉得这里有个重要的点，就是湾区确实从中受益了。

I think the important note there is, like, the Bay Area has certainly benefited from this.

你知道，这不一定能永远持续下去。

You know, it's it's not it's not certain that it'll last forever.

也不一定加州永远都是创业的最佳地点。

It's not certain that, you know, that that California will always be the best place to to to start companies.

所以我觉得我们有必要保护好这个生态系统，因为它真的非常特别。

And so I I think I think it's important for us to preserve this ecosystem because it is it is very, very special.

它不仅在全世界独一无二，甚至在美国国内也是，能有这么肥沃的创业和新技术生态系统，真的很难得。

It is something that is, like, unique, not just in the world, but even even within The US, you know, in in order to have this this fertile of an ecosystem for for startups and new technology.

你有没有听到创业者们提到，监管问题也是他们考虑的一个因素，会影响他们最终把公司设在哪里？

Are are you hearing founders talk about regulatory issues as one factor that they consider and where they end up citing the business?

是的，我觉得有时候是间接的。

Yeah, I think that it is sometimes indirect.

比如说，生活成本就是一个很好的例子，真的很简单直接。

I think for example, just, you know, cost of living is a great, you know, is is a really simple one.

或者如果你在做深科技公司，做下一代制造业，你就得去那些有大规模实验室和仓库空间、而且价格合理的地方。

Or if you're building a deep tech company, if you're building the next generation of manufacturing, you have to go somewhere where people are building, you know, building large that there's large scale lab and warehouse space at at reasonable prices.

所以你会看到像洛杉矶的埃尔塞贡多这样的地方，还有很多人因为这些原因在得克萨斯州创业。

And so I think you're seeing these pockets like El Segundo in LA, you're seeing folks building things in Texas for many of those reasons.

我觉得湾区从这波AI浪潮中获益巨大，因为AI的中心就在这里。

I think the Bay Area has hugely benefited from just the AI wave, really centered here.

所以这真的大大延长了这个生态系统的寿命。

So I think that's really extended the life of this ecosystem in a big way.

自从疫情分散之后，很多人又回到了湾区。

A lot of people have been coming back to the Bay Area since the sort of COVID dispersal.

然后我还觉得，另一个间接的力量是，初创公司必须搬到有投资人的地方去。

And then I do think that the ability for, again, another indirect kind of force is that the startups have to really move where there's investors.

事实证明，在那里编程更容易，拿到第一笔收入也更容易，招到第一个员工也更容易。

It turns out it's a lot easier to code, and it's a lot easier to get your first dollar revenue, and it's a lot easier to hire your first employee.