化身为羊蹄山的幽灵——与Erika Ishii同行

2026年Dice峰会的注册现已开放，这是从2月10日至12日举办的顶级视频游戏行业交流盛会。

Registration is now open for the twenty twenty six Dice Summit, the premier video game networking conference from February 10 through the twelfth.

作为听众，您可享受专属游戏开发者笔记本折扣，以10%的优惠价购买完整的Dice峰会及颁奖典礼通行证。

Receive 10% off a full Dice Summit and awards pass with our exclusive game maker's notebook discount for listeners.

注册时请使用代码：dice2026gen10。

When you register, use the code dice twenty twenty six g e n 10.

代码是：dice2026gen10。

That's dice twenty twenty six g e n 10.

更多详情请访问dicesummit.org。

Find more details at dicesummit.org.

致我们的游戏开发者听众，你们是否在思考如何将游戏推向全球市场？

To our game dev listeners, are you wondering how to expand your game around the globe?

现在不用再犹豫了。

Well, wonder no longer.

Exola Payments 是专为全球游戏商业与变现打造的解决方案。

Exola Payments is a solution built for global game commerce and monetization.

它通过使用玩家偏好的支付方式提供本地化的结账体验，提升玩家参与度。

It boosts player engagement with localized checkout experiences using your player's preferred payment methods.

简洁的用户界面让全球玩家都能按照自己想要的方式支付你的游戏和游戏内内容。

The simple user interface makes it easy for gamers everywhere to pay for your games and in game content exactly how they want.

更好的是，他们可以保存最爱的支付方式，以便快速购买，帮助他们更快地回到游戏中。

Even better, they can save their favorite payment methods for quick purchases to help them get back in the game faster.

而且你会喜欢Exola Payments，因为它提供可定制的结账界面和多种集成选项，支持侧边栏、iframe、字体和图片等，让支付流程仿佛成为玩家游戏体验的自然延伸。

And you'll love Ixola Payments because of its customizable checkout and integration options with everything from sidebars and iframes to fonts and images, making the buying process feel like an extension of your game experience for payers.

准备好走向全球了吗？

Ready to go global?

访问 xsolla.pro/aiasp，或点击我们播客描述中的链接了解更多信息。

Visit xsolla.pro/aiasp, or click the link in our podcast description to learn more.

你好。

Hi.

我是亚历克莎·蕾·科雷亚，欢迎收听《游戏开发者笔记本》播客。

I'm Alexa Rae Correa, and this is the Game Maker's Notebook podcast.

今天，我的嘉宾是夜井本人的幽灵——艾丽卡·伊希。

Today, my guest is the ghost of Yotei himself, Erika Ishii.

我们聊了聊他们在表演方面的背景，并深入探讨了如何共同塑造《夜井的幽灵》中的阿茨这个角色。

We talked about their background in acting and really dug into the collaborative process of finding Atsu for the ghost of Yotei.

从写作、角色塑造到故事创作，这款游戏确实经历了大量的跨学科协作，艾丽卡和其他演员都参与其中。

It really sounds like in terms of writing, in terms of creating this character, in terms of the story, there was a lot of cross disciplinary collaboration, for this game, and that included Erica and the other actors.

这是一个非常引人入胜的故事。

It's a really fascinating story.

通过这次对话，我学到了很多，希望你们也能像我一样享受这段交谈。

Have I learned a lot from this conversation, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed having it.

欢迎收听《游戏制作人笔记》，这是一档聚焦游戏制作人之间深度一对一对话的播客，以深刻而私密的视角探讨互动娱乐的商业与创作。

Welcome to the game maker's notebook, a podcast featuring a series of in-depth one on one conversations between game makers providing a thoughtful, intimate perspective on the business and craft of interactive entertainment.

《游戏制作人笔记》由互动艺术与科学学院呈现，这是一个致力于认可与推动互动娱乐发展的会员制组织。

The Game Maker's Notebook is presented by the Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences, a member driven organization dedicated to the recognition and advancement of interactive entertainment.

所以，我最喜欢的问题——也是我在这档播客中常问开发者的难题：你是怎么走到今天的？

So my favorite question, loaded question that I love to ask devs on this podcast, how did you get here?

是什么样的经历让你走到了今天这一步？

What was your journey that brought you to where you are today?

这话说来话长，但简而言之，我从小就开始演戏。

That's a long and convoluted, tale, but the long and short of it is that I grew up acting.

我非常幸运。

I was very fortunate.

我的父母都在这个行业，一个是摄像助理，一个是电影剪辑师。

My parents were in the industry, a camera assistant and a film editor.

是的。

Mhmm.

所以，在成长过程中尝试各种活动时，演戏自然也是其中之一。

And so, you know, when in in the course of being a child and getting to try out different activities, of course, acting was one of them.

于是我做了所有儿童演员会做的事，比如拍广告、演话剧，还出演过《全家福》的一集。

And so I did the whole child acting thing, you know, commercials and plays and a little bit of I was in full an episode of Full House.

我确实看过那一集。

I did see that.

是的

Yeah.

然后，我主要是在学校里拉小提琴。

And then and then mostly, I was I was doing a lot of violin in in school.

我去了加州大学洛杉矶分校，后来通过斯特拉斯伯格学院——也就是方法派表演学校——重新回到了表演领域，但最重要的是，我加入了上直角喜剧团，那个社区网络和群体对我的影响一直持续到今天。

I went I went to UCLA, came back to acting through I I did I was at Strasberg Institute, the Method School, but probably most importantly, was at the Upright Citizens Brigade and that part of sort of that that community network and and sort of that cohort, which ended up to this day.

我至今仍然在和那些与我一起成长起来的人合作、保持友谊。

I I'm still working with and friends with a lot of the folks who who came up with me.

所以，我一直都是电子游戏和动画的粉丝。

And so I I've always been, you know, a fan of video games and of cartoons.

我有意识地决定进入配音行业。

I made the conscious decision to get into voice over.

特别是，我非常想做游戏配音。

Specifically, I really wanted to do games.

我的梦想是参与大型、富有深度的叙事类游戏，而从那时到现在，我通过桌面游戏、主持工作、Twitch直播以及大量的试音，一步步走到了今天。

It was it was my dream to do big, meaty narrative games, and somehow between then and now, you know, with tabletop and hosting and Twitch streaming and lot of a lot of auditioning.

现在我做到了。

Now I I I did it.

你确实做到了。

You did do it.

是哪款游戏让你觉得：哦，我想参与这样的作品？

What was the game that you played that you were like, oh, I, like, I wanna act in stuff like this.

就是这个，就是它了。

Like, this is this is it.

这才是巅峰。

This is peak.

我确实在采访中说过，《最后生还者》绝对是决定性的时刻。

I I definitely you know, I've said in interviews, it's The Last of Us, for sure, was the sort of definitive moment.

但你知道，我们当时达到了一个临界点，比如朱恩·海尔和马克出演了《质量效应》，还有其他所有人。

But, you know, it it it was kind of like we reached a critical mass, you know, of of, of course, you know, Jhun Hale and Mark being in in Mass Effect, and just all all of them.

我玩过的所有游戏都有非常引人入胜的表演，但我觉得《最后生还者》是我第一次真正意识到，这可以成为一份全职职业，一条不同于真人演出或其他表演形式的独立道路。

Like, all of the games that I played, you know, they were really compelling performances, but I think The Last of Us was the first time I really kind of understood that it could be a full time career and was separate path than on camera or any other kind of acting.

《最后生还者》中有没有哪一场具体的表演，或者某个部分，让你突然觉得‘哇，就是这个了’？

Was there a specific performance in The Last of Us or part of it that, like, made you just be like, woah, this was it?

还是说，是整个作品都让你有这种感觉？

Or was it like the whole?

我觉得里面的每一位演员都贡献了极其出色的表演。

I I think it was just every every actor in there is is so such incredible performances.

尤其是当我了解了幕后情况后，我查了一些视频和采访，发现编剧和设计师们是如何围绕演员的表演来构建剧情，反之亦然，这种表演与游戏的深度融合让我大开眼界。

And the way that especially hearing about behind the scenes, you know, I looked up different videos and interviews and hearing how the writers and the designers and things were built around the actors' performances and vice versa, and, you know, how integral the performance was to the game was really kind of eye opening for me, I think.

所以，当然，具体来说是艾什莉·约翰逊和特洛伊·贝克，但整个演员阵容都非常出色，而且他们对配音投入了如此多的用心和细致。

So, you know, the specific, obviously, Ashley Johnson and Troy Baker, but, you know, and the whole the whole ensemble, really, and just the fact that there was so much care and attention put into voice over.

稍微回溯一下，你去了斯特拉斯堡，然后你提到

Backing up a little bit to your you went you went to Strasbourg, and you called

是的。

Yes.

它

It

方法学校。

the Method School.

当然。

Sure.

你当时在那里学了什么？

You can you like, what did you what did you study there?

你能稍微详细说说吗？

Can you elaborate a little on that?

比如，什么是

Like, what

李·斯特拉斯伯格可以说是美国方法派的代表人物。

was So that Lee Strasberg was sort of the American method guy.

我们通常所说的表演方法，那种由内而外的转变，以及在场景、角色和情感中保持真实，都源自于他，而他的理念又源于更早的俄罗斯表演体系。

You know, what we sort of what a lot of actors refer to as method acting, the idea of sort of an inside out transformation and, you know, playing the honesty of a scene and a character and a feeling is from him, which and he is sort of of the Russian acting discipline further back from that.

说实话，我并不觉得自己是个方法派演员。

You know, it's I I don't really consider myself like a method actor.

我觉得那真是太棒了。

I think it was really wonderful.

我在那里遇到了一些非凡的老师，学到了许多了不起的技巧。

I had some incredible teachers there and learned some incredible techniques.

而且，我觉得很多人对方法派表演的描述或解释并不完全符合我们所学的内容。

Also, I think a lot of the portrayal of method acting is not or or sort of explanation of method acting is not exactly truthful to what what we learned.

我认为，那 definitely 少了很多自我严肃的感觉。

It was definitely a lot less self serious, I think.

但你知道，我学到了很多东西，比如训练非常侧重于戏剧表演，侧重于重建情境，我认为这对配音、尤其是动作捕捉和表演捕捉至关重要。

But, you know, I I think I I learned a lot of things about you know, the training focused a lot on theater, on, you know, acting for theater, on recreating circumstances, and I think that that was incredibly instrumental with voice over, specifically with mocap, with performance capture.

这感觉很像黑匣子剧场，也就是在斯特拉斯堡，他们主要训练你如何在脑海中重建所有这些元素、情感和情境。

It feels a lot like black box theater, which is, you know, sort of what they prep you for mostly in Strasbourg of having to sort of recreate all these elements and feelings and circumstances in your head.

我发现这种方式非常有帮助，就是能够运用想象力构建出各种情境，比如骑马、身处雪地、生病或受伤。

And I I found it very, you know, very helpful in that way, the idea of of sort of just being able to build up, use your imagination to build up all of these circumstances, like being on horseback or being in the snow or being sick or injured.

是的。

Yeah.

但我并不需要特意去做这些事情来在脑海中重现这些情境。

But I didn't have to do any of those things specifically to recreate the circumstances in my imagination.

我的意思是，我确实做过很多这类事情，但更重要的是找到方法——不是捷径——真正让自己感受到真实。

I mean, I have done a lot of those things, but it's it's more about sort of finding ways and not shortcuts, I suppose, to really making it feel authentic for yourself.

如果我们从你所说的捷径这个角度出发，当你在表演时，比如你和你的马一起使用‘Yote的幽灵’，这条线索是什么样的呢？

How do you if we're going off the idea of shortcuts for you, like, what does that thread look like when you're like, okay, I'm acting with it's gonna be me and my horse using Ghost of Yote.

我假设在动作捕捉舞台上并不会真的有一匹马在你身边。

I I'm assuming a horse is not with you on the motion capture stage.

没有。

No.

我用了一个木制的替身来代表马，它的形状大致如此，而且我很幸运，一生中确实有过骑马的经历。

I had a wooden sort of stand in for the horse, and it was, you know, it's so so you sort of your body has sort of the shape of it, but then also, I've been very fortunate to have gotten to horse back ride in my life.

所以，只要理解马的运动方式、如何调整身体、如何骑乘，你就可以观看视频，了解不同类型的骑术，比如西部风格和英式风格，甚至理解这种动物是温热的，抚摸它可能就像抚摸一只大狗一样。

So the idea of just understanding the movement of it and how move your body and how to ride, you can look up videos of, you know, different kind of, like, like, Western or versus English, you know, writing and, you know, or even, like, the understanding of of, you know, this animal is warm, you know, and and petting it feels might might feel like petting a big dog.

你知道吧？

You know?

所以，你总能找到一些方法，在脑海中构建那个场景和情境，而不需要真的有一匹马在身边——这在影视拍摄中是经常发生的事。

So there's always sort of ways to build that that scene and that circumstance in your mind without actually, like, having a horse there, which is something that frequently people get to do in on camera, film TV.

但没错，当你在录音棚里时，这一切都是完全虚构的。

But, yeah, it's just completely fabricated when you're in a booth.

你之前提到过，你最初是作为一名普通儿童演员开始的。

When you mentioned, you'd mentioned previously, so you've done, you started as a regular child actor.

你做过很多配音工作。

You've done a lot of voiceover.

我有机会去查看了你的IMDb页面，发现你出演的角色极其丰富多样，涉及的范围也非常广。

I did get a chance to go and look through your IMDb and like you have an extremely, extremely varied list of roles you've tackled and things and things that you've done.

这真是一段非常宽广的经历。

And it's just such a wide, a wide swath.

当你准备一些只做配音、不参与动作捕捉的工作时，你其实没有太多机会去……当你做配音时，你也会在身体上感受到角色吗？

And when you are preparing for, let's say something where you're just doing voice, you're not on the mo cap stage, you don't really get a chance to well, when you're doing voice acting, do you also feel it in your body too?

比如，你在准备这两种不同工作时，有什么区别？

Like, what is the difference, like, when you're preparing for those two things?

你知道吧？

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，呃，Sucker Punch 这家工作室真的非常注重整体性，我会这么说。

I think well, I I it's again, Sucker Punch is just such a consummate holistic studio, I'll say.

我觉得，你知道的，我只是一个外包人员，但根据我所看到的，很多部门都紧密合作、相互沟通，表演部门也是如此。

I think you know, I mean, I I'm just a contractor, but from what I saw, so many the departments really work together and really communicate with each other, and that includes performance.

所以很多时候在配音工作中，你没有机会提前拿到剧本。

So whereas a lot of times in voice over, you don't get a chance to you don't get your script beforehand.

你只是到场后直接即兴朗读。

You just kind of show up and have to read it cold.

你并不总是能知道你的角色长什么样，因此也看不到美术部门的作品。

You don't always know what your character looks like, so you don't get to see the art department's work.

有时候你甚至不知道自己在为哪款游戏录音。

You don't sometimes you don't even know what game you're recording for

很好。

Great.

或者，你知道的，更不用说去试镜了。

Or or, you know, much less auditioning for.

但Sucker Punch，你知道，他们提前给了我剧本。

So but Sucker Punch, you know, they gave me the scripts beforehand.

我有一个配音教练，你知道，在工作室里和我们在一起。

I had an a die we had a dialect coach in, you know, in studio with us.

如果你有问题，我可以和编剧交流。

You know, I could talk with writers if I had questions.

我还能和其他演员合作，这所有的一切都是一种极大的奢侈，因为在配音工作中，你通常独自待在录音棚里，刚拿到剧本，就一边读一边表演，做出一个有力的选择，然后祈祷结果最好。

I got to work with other actors, which is all this is all just such an incredible luxury because a lot of times in voice over, you're just in a booth alone, and you've just received the script, and you're just kind of reading as it reading it as it goes, and making a strong choice and hoping for the best.

所以我认为，你知道，我真的很被《幽灵之约》宠坏了，他们真心关心表演体验，并为我提供了所有需要的资源。

So I I think, you know, I I just really got spoiled with with with Ghost of Yote and that they that they sincerely cared about the experience of acting and providing me with all the tools that I needed.

而且，你知道，我的意思是，对于配音演员来说，不获得这么多信息是正常的，也是非常普遍的做法。

And, you know, I mean, it it is normal, and it it is very due rigor for actors in doing just voice over not to get anywhere near that amount of information.

所以，是的，这可能会有很大不同，你只能尽量利用手头现有的资源。

So, yeah, it's it can be significantly different, and you just kinda kind of, you know, take what you have and use that.

所以听起来这可能是其中一种更具协作性的制作方式。

So it sounds like this was a probably one of the more collaborative kind of setups.

你提到各个部门协同工作，你和编剧们也密切合作。

You're talking about departments working together and you kind of working very closely with the writer the writers.

我想听听——我想听听这个故事，给我讲讲你拿到这个角色的每一个细节。

I wanna hear- I wanna hear this story and like, give me all the little nitty gritty details of how you got this role.

我想听一听试镜的故事。

Like, I want the audition story.

天哪。

Oh, man.

我觉得，说实话，作为演员，大多数时候你只是在等待试镜机会的到来。

I think, you know, the- the sort of boring reality of it is that, you know, you as an actor, most of the time, you just sort of wait for auditions to come in.

你知道的？

You know?

我的意思是，确实有一段时间，我在没有经纪人的情况下自己去争取角色。

I mean, there was definitely a time where I was out seeking my own role before I had an agent.

你知道，我会去参加展会，分发我的名片，或者我有朋友在游戏行业，我就说，嘿。

You know, I would go to conventions and hand out my cards, or I had friends in games and, you know, like, I was like, hey.

我录了一个试音小样。

I cut a demo.

如果你们需要演员试音，我非常愿意参加，就这样拼命地奔波努力。

Like, if if you ever need actors to audition, I would love to audition, and and just sort of doing doing the hard hustle.

但我认为，演员通常都是从经纪人那里收到试音通知，而我收到了一封关于一款未公开的索尼游戏的试音请求，游戏背景设定在封建时代的日本。

But I think, you know, actors receive auditions from their agents, and I received a request for this undisclosed Sony game set in feudal Japan.

所以，你知道吗？

So I you know?

而且，我的意思是，这些信息量已经很大了，足够像我这样热爱游戏的人去推断出这是什么游戏。

And and, you know, I mean, that is, you know, a lot of information to go off of and enough for somebody like me who's a fan of games to kind of figure out what it was.

于是我寄出了试音录像。

And so I sent an audition tape.

试镜录像很难，因为你得不到任何指导。

Audition tapes are difficult because you don't get any direction.

你只能再次做出选择，希望他们能从中看到一些值得让你来进一步试镜的特质。

You just gotta, again, like, sort of make a choice and hope that they see something in there that they feel is worth bringing you in to explore.

然后我收到了复试通知，当时索尼的很多团队成员都在录音棚里，他们问我有没有问题，我说有。

And then I had a callback, and, you know, it was a lot of the team there on the Sony soundstage, And I they asked if I had any questions, and I said, yeah.

这是《对马岛之魂2》吗？

Is this Ghost of Tsushima two?

他们似乎对这个问题有点意外，匆忙商量了一下，然后说：是的。

And they were I think they were a little taken by surprise by that and had a hurried conference and said, yes.

是的。

Yes.

差不多就是这样的。

It's something like that.

是的。

Yes.

我当时就想，很好。

And I was like, good.

好的。

Okay.

酷。

Cool.

现在我知道了，它需要多 grounded，以及要加入多少黑泽明的元素。

Well, now I know sort of how grounded it needs to be and sort of how much Kurosawa to add.

太棒了。

Amazing.

然后

Then

跟我讲了讲黑泽明、第一款游戏，还有西部片。

me out about Kurosawa and about the first game and about, you know, westerns.

所以我认为在早期，我们在整个作品的基调上达成了高度一致。

And so I think early on, we were very aligned in our sort of vision of the tone of all of this.

你知道的吧？

You know?

他们给了我很多很好的指导，但我觉得我在试镜时展现了他们想要的东西，你知道吗？

They gave me so much great direction and and sort of but I think there was something in my audition that they saw that I saw what they wanted, you know?

我觉得自己真的很幸运，一切都能顺利发展，而且我的大津正是他们心中所想的角色。

And it's I was I just feel so lucky, you know, that it all kind of worked out and that my Otsu was the one that they kinda had in mind.

我很喜欢这一点。

I love that.

当你加入这个项目时，是因为你提到过与编剧以及各个部门和美术团队的合作。

When you joined the project about cause you mentioned again collaborating with writers and collaborating with all the different different departments and and art.

当时游戏进展到什么阶段了？你们之后是如何紧密合作的？

Where was the game in this process and how closely were you all working together moving forward?

我确信他们那时已经……我是在2022年被选中的。

I'm pretty sure that they had been I I was cast in about 2022.

你知道，我加入之前，已经有很多人在这上面付出了巨大的努力。

You know, there there's there were so many people working so hard on this already before I joined.

他们能够把我融入进来，并在进行其他艺术、设计、写作工作时考虑我的表演，这让我觉得不可思议，因为通常情况下，没有足够的时间或预算让演员参与整个制作过程。

And just the fact that they were able to fold me in and to consider, you know, my performance when doing other, like, art, design, writing, you know, was was unbelievable to me because that's not usually there's not usually the time or the, you know, the budget to have actors be a part of the process.

我觉得很多时候，演员都是在项目接近尾声时才被请进来。

I think a lot of times actors are brought in nearer to the end.

是这样吗？

Is that correct?

我的意思是，至少对于配音来说，确实是这样。

I mean, for well, definitely for just for just voice over.

但即使是动作捕捉，我也知道有时候他们得先搭建整个动作系统，做大量前期工作。

But, you know, even for PCAP, I know that sometimes, you know, the you know, they have to, like, build the whole build the rigs and and do so much.

然后演员只不过像是这个项目机器中的一个齿轮而已。

And then actors are are just like a you know, actors really are just a cog in this sort of the machine of of this project.

而我很幸运，我这个齿轮被非常细致、用心地安排了进来。

And I was just lucky that I was, you know, a cog that was really sort of considered very carefully and and and thoughtfully placed in.

是的。

Yeah.

三年时间致力于一个项目，这真的非常漫长，尤其是你提到你是合同工，通常人们会认为，我们要先搭建一切、让所有东西运行起来，剧本完成、内容建好，然后再请演员进来。

And for three years, that's a very long time to be dedicated to one project, especially as so you said contractor, but someone who typically like you think, oh, we're gonna stand everything up and get everything up and running, scripts done, things built, and then we will bring the actors in.

你有机会真正地——这么说可能听起来有点奇怪——留下自己的印记。

You had the opportunity to really like it sounds weird to say, but like leave your mark.

我能和他们一起成长，你知道吗？

I I was able to grow along with them, You know?

我刚加入时，还有很多变动，他们愿意调整一些剧本和内容，只为做到最好。

I mean, coming in, there were still, like, a lot of changes, and they were willing to sort of move some writing and things around in order to really get it right.

而且，让我印象非常深刻的是团队的灵活性。

I mean and that that was something I was also very impressed with with was the agility of the team.

我们有些镜头拍了很多遍，因为他们说：‘好吧。’

There were things we shot multiple times because they were like, okay.

等等。

Wait.

实际上，这个部分需要在这个时间点插入，但我们还得保留这个内容。

Actually, it this needs to slot in at this time, and but we need to have this.

而且，我的意思是，那些编剧真的非常出色，他们通常心中都有角色的发展脉络。

And most I mean, like, the writers are phenomenal, and usually, they have an arc in mind.

他们给我提供了她的人物弧线，也就是她角色发展的起点，这其实非常罕见，因为通常你只能在过程中慢慢体会到。

They gave me her arc, you know, in her character development starting out, which, again, is so rare because usually because because frequently, it's just kind of you get it when you can.

你知道的？

You know?

有时候，我会在录完一批台词后，中间隔上一两个月才回来继续录制。

And and I think there were times where I'd be, you know, recording a batch, and then we'd we'd there would be like a month or two in between, and then I'd come back.

那时，剧本已经被修改过，或者又新增了内容。

Things had been revised or more had been written.

所以，是的，我真的有机会去自由发挥，和团队一起成长。

And and so, yeah, I really got a chance to sort of play and, you know, like, grow with the team.

你和编剧之间的沟通是怎样的？

What was that dialogue like between you and the writers?

作为编剧，能提前让演员参与进来，一起塑造角色，简直是梦想。

As a as a writer, it's a dream to get the actor in early and get to build a character together.

那对你来说是什么感觉呢？

So what is that what's that like for you?

我非常尊重游戏编剧，因为你知道，他们的工作不仅艰难，而且要考虑很多因素，故事不能像电影那样单纯地讲一个故事，他们必须适应技术限制和游戏设计。

I have the greatest respect for game writers because, you know, I mean, not only is their job difficult and they have a lot of considerations, you know, they cannot it cannot be story just story, you know, first in the way that even a film can because they have to work around technical restrictions and gameplay design.

而且，他们在创作精彩故事时需要考虑的事项还有很多。

And, you know, the list goes on of things that they have to take in into account while they're writing a great story.

不能只是有出色的角色、精彩的故事，剧本写完就完了。

It can't just, you know, it can't just be great characters, great story, the script is done.

他们必须与其他部门一起共同构建故事。

It's they have to build it along with the other departments.

我认为，这对所有游戏编剧来说都是如此。

And that's true, I think, of all video game writers.

而且，他们也没有工会之类的组织。

And plus, you know, they don't have a union or anything.

或者

Or

不。

No.

我们不行，而且编剧工会也不会让我们加入。

We don't, and WGA won't let us in anyway.

所以，你知道，编剧工会已经认定你们不算作家，我想是这样。

So, you know, and and and WGA has decided that you're not writers, I guess.

我不清楚。

I don't know.

我不知道这具体是怎么回事。

I don't I don't know how it goes.

抱歉。

Sorry.

持续的斗争。

Ongoing battle.

持续的斗争。

Ongoing battle.

关于这一点。

About that aspect of it.

但没错，这真的很惊人，因为他们认为，你知道，他们必须围绕这些事情来构建，我总是有很多问题，而他们总有答案，或者说‘我们会弄清楚’或者‘我们一起解决’。

But, yeah, it's it's remarkable because they think, you know, just in the way that they have to build around things, you know, I I always had a lot of questions, and they always had answers or an, oh, we'll find out or we'll figure it out together for me.

因为你知道，对于电子游戏中的演员，有些限制是无法避免的，尽管你希望尽可能自然，但你永远不能让对话重叠，当你和其他人一起在录音棚里时。

Because, you know, there's certain things you can't restrictions on actors for video games as much as you wanna have sort of a naturalistic, almost sort of you you can't ever overlap dialogue, you know, when you're in the booth with somebody else.

当你打断时，你不能随意进行，你得说，好吧。

You can't in when when interrupting, you have to be like, okay.

下一句对话能顺利播放吗？

Will the dialogue will the next line be able to fire?

就像这样，对吧？

Like right?

你知道的？

You know?

这个对话系统就是这样运作的吗？

Is this is this the dialogue system work that way?

所以你是会自己打断，还是继续说下去，指望音频会帮你截断？

So do you cut yourself off or you just keep going and hope and then audio will cut it off.

你知道吗？

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

当你进行PCAP表演时，比如你正在拥抱某人，你脸上其实戴着一个马面具，我这么叫它。

You can't like, when you're doing a PCAP performance, you have you know, if you're hugging someone, you have that the horse mask on, essentially, I call it.

这其实就是面部捕捉设备，一个长长的杆子架在你脸前。

It's it's, you know, the the the facial capture rig that that's a long pole in front of your face.

所以你得决定自己想朝哪一侧表演，你知道的，还有，你知道的，相对尺寸可能不一样。

So you gotta work out which side you wanna, you know also, you know, I'm you know, the relative sizes might be different.

间距也可能不同，然后他们在后期制作中会调整你的位置。

The the, you know, spacing might be different, and then they will sort of move you in post.

所以，你知道的，有些事情我必须说明，比如如果你想追求自然的风格，你仍然需要告诉玩家他们必须听到的信息，因为他们没法像在家看电视剧或电影那样回放重看。

So, you know, there there's things that I have to say, like, as as sort of if you want a naturalistic style, you still need to tell the players things they need to hear because they can't rewind it like in a like like in a, you know, TV show or film that they're watching later on at home.

所以这是一个很有趣的过程，我觉得如果你玩过游戏，就会更容易理解，比如你喊出指令，或者自己小声嘀咕方向时。

So it's it's an interesting process, and I think it's helped if you play games because you know callouts or, you know, when you're mumbling a direction to yourself.

你知道吗？

You know?

而且，这对我来说特别有趣，因为我喜欢游戏，也热爱玩它们。

And, you know, it it's and it's really fun for me because I I love games, and I love I love playing them.

我知道当我操作电脑时，我希望听到什么样的指导，所以我特别希望捕捉到那种感觉，让别人也能体会到我在制作过程中的感受。

And I know what I would wanna hear when, you know, when I'm when I'm moving a PC around, and I really hoped to capture that and to make people get to feel what I was feeling in in the making of it.

是的。

Yeah.

你玩过《对马岛之魂》吗？

So played Ghost of Tsushima.

你在采访中说过，你非常喜爱这款游戏。

You've said in interviews, you really love that game.

你知道自己要做什么。

You know what you're going in.

你知道自己要进来了。

You know you're coming in.

你会想，好吧，我就是下一个幽灵。

You're like, all right, I'm the next ghost.

然后你就开始和大家合作。

And then you start working with everyone.

团队已经多次谈到他们从流浪佣兵、意大利西部片和武士复仇电影中汲取的原型。

The team has talked a lot about the archetypes they pulled from the wandering mercenaries, spaghetti western, samurai revenge films.

那么，在塑造这个角色的过程中，你是如何处理这些类型和素材的呢？

Like, how did you approach those genres and that material while you were developing this character?

我的意思是，我很幸运，因为在我进入这个项目时，我的功课已经做完了——我从小就热爱武士电影和西部片，也喜欢好的复仇片。

I I mean, I was so fortunate that, you know, I kind of came into this with my homework already done just because I grew up loving samurai films and loving westerns and just and, you know, I love a good revenge film.

你知道的？

You know?

比如《雪血》或者《杀死比尔》，我刚刚又重看了一遍。

You know, maybe Snowblood or or Kill Bill or I just I just rewatched it.

现在是万圣节季节，所以我昨晚刚重看了《乌鸦》。

It's Halloween season, so I just rewatched The Raven last night.

我当时就想，哦，对啊。

I was like, oh, yeah.

没错。

That's right.

我确实花了很多时间思考布兰登，你知道的，我觉得所有东西都在那里了。

I did think a lot about about Brandon And, you know, I I think it was it was all there.

你知道吗？

You know?

剧本里有太多内容了，你知道的，有很多台词和引用我都认得出来，尤其是伊恩，你知道的，其中一个编剧，他和我经常会说，

So much so much of the script, you know, there were there were lines and references and things that I would recognize, and especially, like, Ian, who you know, one one of the writers would would he and I would be like,

太棒了。

Love that.

所以是的。

So yeah.

在整个过程中，尤其是当我即将进入一段拍摄期时，我会随便放一部《三匹神探》或《用心棒》，或者一部《无名客》系列电影作为背景音，让这些元素重新在我脑海中浮现。

I and and throughout it, I think, especially when when I would have a block of filming coming up, I would just sort of throw on Sanjuro or Yojimbo or one of the Man With No Name movies just kind of in the background or renew it in my brain.

我当然不是想模仿他们，但这样感觉也很不错。

I definitely wasn't trying to imitate them, but It sort of was also nice.

你知道，我的身体条件和他们完全不同，我的表演和角色也和他们不一样。

You know, I'm my my my body is very different from theirs, and my, you know, performance and character is different from them.

但能够融入他们的一些元素，思考他们的一些创作过程，比如回溯他们为角色所做的练习和投入，然后想想：我该如何借鉴这些方法呢？

But being able to sort of fold in elements of of them and and think about some of their process too, like going back and hearing about some of the exercises and the and the things that they brought to their characters and and thinking, like, how can I bring something like that in?

你知道吗？

You know?

比如克林特·伊斯特伍德自己买了一顶帽子。

Like, Clint Eastwood had bought his own hat.

他在好莱坞大道上买的，就是那顶标志性的帽子。

He got it on the Hollywood Boulevard, you know, that that iconic hat.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗，对于我的角色来说，有哪些在服装上始终随身携带的标志性元素？

You know, what's what's iconic for my character in terms of wardrobe that she always carries with her?

你知道吗，有什么动物是我可以去研究的，就像我了解三船敏郎在某些角色中观察狮子那样？

What's, you know, what's an animal that that, you know, I could sort of look up in the way that I know Mifune looked at lions for some of his roles.

你知道吗？

You know?

对我来说，深入探索一些我最喜爱的表演，真的是一种很有趣的途径。

It's it was it was really kind of a fun of way for me to go down rabbit holes about some of my favorite performances.

是的。

Yeah.

对你来说，那个标志性的Atsu物品是什么？

So what is that for you, what is that iconic piece of Atsu?

就像那顶帽子或者类似的东西。

Like like the hat or the thing.

对你来说，那是什么？

What is that for you?

我的意思是，毫无疑问，剑总是存在的。

I mean, I think definitely it's, you know, the swords are always there.

她左肩的伤痛，或者从‘焚树之夜’以来左肩的愈合过程，我认为这始终是她身体和情感上的一个提醒。

The sort of pain in her left shoulder or the the sort of healing of her left shoulder from the Night of the Burning Tree, that's always a physical and emotional reminder for her, I think.

还有那个想法，特别是她从死亡中归来时的那场大型电影场景，你知道的，她被打得遍体鳞伤。

And the the idea, especially of that first big cinematic where she's coming back from the dead and, like, you know, she's beat to hell.

那也是我最喜欢的动作片的一个特点——英雄总是被打得遍体鳞伤。

That was another thing of my favorite action films always have the hero getting beat to hell.

就像他们被狠狠地揍了一顿。

Like, it's like they get a shit kicked out of them.

但他们就是会继续前进，过程不会好看，也不会干净利落。

And, like, they are just they're just gonna keep going, and it's not gonna be attractive, and it's not gonna be clean.

他们会一瘸一拐地走，或者只是沉重地喘着气。

And they're gonna be limping around or just, like, breathing heavily.

我特别喜欢这种感觉。

And I love that.

你知道的。

You know?

比如哈里森·福特和他主演的《夺宝奇兵》系列。

Like, Harrison Ford and so much of his stuff with Indiana Jones.

他们根本不像我们现在看到的超级英雄那样能扛得住重击。

Like, they don't they they really couldn't take a punch in the same way that I think we see superheroes do.

我觉得，如今超级英雄电影已经影响了我们对英雄的刻画，让他们好像只要轻轻一抖就能继续前进。

I think superhero films have sort of colored our portrayal of heroes these days where they can really just kind of shake it off and move on.

是的。

Yeah.

但你再看看老电影。

But then you'll see older films.

我觉得那些角色总是满身黏腻和汗水，拖着疲惫的身体蹒跚前行，我真的很喜欢这种感觉。

I think they're, like, sticky and sweaty and just sort of dragging themselves around, and I I really loved that.

我觉得有很多时候，阿茨根本无法如愿以偿，只是像个行尸走肉一样到处晃荡。

And there's so many times, I think, where where Atsu is just, like, not able to, you know, get her way and is just kind of, you know, the walking walking deading around.

你知道的？

You know?

所以，我认为这是我很喜欢并希望融入其中的一个元素。

So that was, I think, an element I really loved and wanted to sort of bring to it.

而且，是的，帽子和她的剑的重要性，在所有我能想到的情境中，它们都是她的一部分，我觉得。

And, yeah, the importance of sort of the hat and her sword and, like, in all the sort of circumstances where I could just sort of be like, you know, they're a part of her, I think.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，你知道，你可以换她的帽子，这显然是其中重要的一部分。

And, you know, you get to change her hat out, which is, you know, an important part of it.

但让某种东西提供对元素的保护，这个想法一直在我脑海中若隐若现。

But the idea of having something protection for the elements was definitely sort of always a little bit in the back of my head.

对。

Yeah.

我在玩游戏时，看到她多次被狠狠揍得狼狈不堪，然后又有那些非常技术性的对峙场面——拔剑、持剑和移动的方式，还有三味线的演奏。

I as I was playing and I was watching her get the just the absolute shit kicked out of her multiple times, and then there's the very technical kind of the standoffs, the drawing of the sword, the way that you you hold the sword and move, and then also the shamisan playing.

这看起来是一项非常耗费体力的角色。

This is a very physically taxing role, it looks like.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，again，这完全是一次合作，因为还有那些出色的特技团队，他们完成了所有的打斗、真正的剑术动作，甚至包括完成我走路动作的动捕演员。

And, like, again, it is such a collaboration because also, you know, the the incredible stunt team that did all of the fighting and all of the, you know, the the real Idol sort of draws and, even the mocap actors who did my walk cycles.

但我有机会在一些大型过场动画中亲自完成一些特技，比如他们把我猛地拉回，或者当我被刺中时，需要模仿肩膀被猛拽的动作，或者亲自完成一些拔剑和站姿，因为这些充满角色感的瞬间，还有进行面部捕捉。

But I got a chance to do, especially in some of the big cinematics, some stunts of, you know, like, where they, like, yanked me back or or when I got stabbed, you know, like, sort of having to replicate the shoulder getting wrenched back or, you know, doing some of the draws and stances myself because, you know, it's like the characterful moments, you know, and, you know, doing doing the facial capture for that.

所以，这再次证明了动画师们的出色工作，他们让这种过渡如此无缝，并将这种身体表现力融入到他们的表演中。

And so it is, again, like, such a testament to the animators and and to, like, make that such a seamless transition and and to sort of put that physicality into, you know, their performances too.

但确实，这给了我一个很好的理由去开始学习剑术和居合道，让我想起我以前学过日本舞蹈，有些元素，比如如何保持核心稳定、如何走路，都非常相似，它们都源自能剧或能乐。

But, yeah, it was it was nice to get to like, it was a good excuse to sort of start taking some Kenjutsu and Iaido classes of remembering you know, I I used to take Japanese dance, and there's certain elements like the way you hold your core and the way you walk that are that are pretty similar, and both of them sort of derive from things like kabuki or no.

这确实是一种

And it's it's a it's a thing that sort of is

我并不

I don't

我想说这已经变成一种本能了，因为作为演员，当你在行动时，虽然你会稍微留意一下，但这些动作其实一直萦绕在你脑海里。

wanna say second nature because it is something you think about a little bit, but it's something sort of in the back of your head, I think, as an actor when you're when you're moving.

我记得在斯特拉斯伯格时，我上过一堂身体与声音的课，因为那时候我经常不知道手该往哪儿放。

I used to I remember at Strasburg, I took a, like, a body like, a movement and voice class or something where it because I was like, I don't know what to do with my hands frequently.

真的吗？

No?

我觉得我们所有人都常有这个问题。

I think all of us have that problem normally.

比如，无论你是摆姿势自拍还是其他情况，都会想：我的手到底该放哪儿？

Like, you know, when whether you're posing for a selfie or something, you're like, what do I what do I do with my what do I do with my hands?

所以，拥有各种不同的训练，丰富我的技能库，对演这个角色来说非常有帮助。

So, yeah, it was very helpful to have have different training, you know, both in my in my arsenal and, you know, to do for this.

你有没有拍过那个场景——就是你复活后，有个人压在你身上的那个死亡场景？

Did you did you have to do the scene where your, I guess, we'll call it your death scene when you come back and there's like the guy laying on top of you.

是的。

Yeah.

那太棒了。

That was so great.

你得躺在那里，有个人压在你身上吗？

Did you have to lay there with like a person on you?

那感觉像是

Was that like

完全就是扮演这条蛇的内尔森，他是个极其出色的演员，而且非常注重肢体表现。

totally Nelson who played this snake was, just such a phenomenal actor and so physical.

你可以看到，比如在他检查她的时候，那种完全像蛇一样的动作，天啊。

Like, you can see it, you know, in, the moment where he's, like, examining her, like, just so snake like, oh my god.

内尔森，是的，他当时也在场。

And Nelson, yeah, was there for it.

我们拍那场戏时，我觉得是舞台上人最多的场景，因为还有很多村民，就像你穿行其中那样。

We we did it with that was I think the scene that had the most people on stage because there were also a lot of the villagers that were like, you know, that you were walking through.

所以我们是这样演的：我被刺中，然后我反复刺他，接着他倒在我身上，我们就那样躺在那里。

And so we were, you know, I the we we did it where it was like, I get stabbed, and then I'm stabbing him repeatedly, and then he falls onto onto me, and we're just sort of lying there.

还有另一件事，就是那个马头摄像机的镜头该怎么放？

And that's another thing where it's like, well, where where do you put the horse head camera face?

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，我们该怎么安全地完成这个动作？

Where, you know, like, how do we do this to, you know, safely?

而且，你知道，我们能后期修复哪些部分？比如我拼命地刺，但后期动画会把刀移动到他身上的正确位置。

And, like and, you know, what the what what can we fix in post so I'm, like, stabbing as hard as I can, but then they move the knife to, like, be in him during post production animation.

而且，弄清楚这场戏的走位还挺有趣的。

And, you know, it's it's, you know, fun to sort of figure out the blocking of that.

内特·福克斯和比利·哈珀一直都在现场指导动作和整场演出，他们特别擅长和我们合作，让我们感到安全，也让我们能尽情发挥。

And, like, Nate Fox and Billy Harper, who were always there directing movement and and directing the show, were just so good about working with us and, you know, making us feel safe and, you know, letting us really kind of go all out too.

我知道他们以前在采访中说过，内特总是会拍一个演员自主发挥的镜头。

And I, you know, I think they said they they've said in interviews before, but Nate always does a an actor's choice shot.

他会先拍到他需要的素材。

He'll get what he needs.

我们会根据需要拍很多遍，然后我们会再拍一遍，让大家感觉：好了，我们已经拍到了。

We'll do as many takes as it needs, and then he'll we'll we'll do one more where we can just feel like, well, we've got it.

我们已经有了一条，但这条可以试试不同的发挥。

We've got one, but we can experiment with this one.

很多时候，最终被采用的正是这一条，而这正是我们根本没法做到的。

And a lot of times, that's the take that they ended up using, which is, again, so I can't we never get to do that.

我们根本没法做到这一点。

We never get to do that.

所以，衷心感谢整个剧组。

So, yeah, big shout out to the entire crew.

在你提到的这些场景中，有没有哪个选择特别让你印象深刻？有没有哪个决定是你自己做的，最终出现在游戏里，让你觉得这就是属于你的时刻？

Was there of the choices that you got to make in these scenes that you're referencing, is there any one that, like, you really stand out to you or that you can speak to that you were like, that was my choice and that's in the game and that's like this it was just this thing for you?

我觉得加入肩部动作这个设计，其实很早以前，奇怪的是，第一次对峙场景原本是西托在游戏开头部分。

I think adding in the shoulder sort of role, I think early on, actually, weirdly, the first standoff was Saito in the first part of the game, you know?

嗯。

Mhmm.

当我们有这个时刻和紧张感时，我摆出姿势时会不自觉地把肩膀向后收，你知道的，这并不是传统剑术中的一部分。

Where we have this moment and this tension, and when I get into the stance, I sort of roll my shoulder back, you know, as part of it, which is not like, not part of a traditional Yeah.

不是什么偶像姿势之类的，但这只是我觉得她并不是一个受过传统训练的剑客。

Idol or stance or anything, but it's just something I think that, again, she's not a traditionally trained swords swords person.

所以，她必须主动记住要保持那种曾经需要重新唤醒的肩部姿态。

So and and it's something that she has has has to, like, actively remember, like, to carry herself with the the shoulder that she had to sort of resurrect.

我觉得他们还把它加进了某些动作循环和其他细节里，比如她更偏爱另一只手臂。

And I think they they added I noticed that they added it into some of the wonk cycles and some of the other you know, or, like, her favoring the other arm.

我当时就想，哇。

And and I I I was like, wow.

这太酷了。

That's so cool.

这是我做的。

I did that.

因为这再次证明了他们的动作设计、剧本、表演和动画是如何完美协同工作的。

Because it and, again, it's it's just such a testament to how they had choreography and writing and the performance and the, you know, animation all sort of working together.

所以，正如你所说，我们之前聊过你感兴趣的类型，以及你和编剧们合作的情况。

So which as you were so we talked about the genres you were into, and you're working working with the writers.

你加入了一些这样的细节，并且正在塑造子。

You've these these bits that you that you've added and you're building Tzu.

你从哪里汲取灵感的？

Where did you draw from?

当你站在舞台上，准备扮演她的时候，

When it's you're on the stage, you're getting ready to play her.

你会带入什么？

What do you bring forward?

你把哪些属于自己的部分带入了子这个角色？

What are what are the pieces of you that you have brought into Ah Tzu?

你知道，这很难说，我的意思是，我觉得当你表演时，总会把一些自己的元素带入角色，因为你只能真正演绎你所了解或研究过的东西。

You know, it's hard to I mean, you know, I I think that when you're acting, you always bring elements of yourself to a character, you know, just because you could only really kind of do what you know or do what you've researched.

我觉得，就是那种内心深处的柔软，我觉得伊达子会是完全不同的

I I think, you know, just sort of that squishy inside, you know, that that I think Itatsu would be a very different