《寂静岭》导演杨阿尔：打造传奇恐怖系列的全新篇章

他在日本非常有名，现在在西方也越来越多地因他的作品而为人所知。

So he's very well known in Japan and I think more and more well known now in the West for kind of his works.

《Higurashi》对吧。

So Higurashi Yep.

《我想要哭泣》《Umineko》《Zirconia》。

I Wanna Cry, Umineko, Zirconia.

是的。

Yep.

我希望能看到更多《Zirconia》。

Looking looking for more Zirconia.

如果Kishi你正在看这个，我现在就想要更多《Zirconia》。

If if Kishi, if you're watching this, I need more Zirconia right now.

他的写作风格非常独特，所探讨的主题也很有个人特色。

And he has a very particular style of writing and a very particular kind of themes he kind of goes into.

所以这个剧本最初是由他提出的，他想探索这些主题，同时也要让它非常符合《Silent Hill》的风格。

So basically the script started off with him and he wanted to kind of explore these kind of themes and whatnot but also make it very Silent Hill.

而且，正如你所知，一切都是团队合作的结果。

And again, as you know, everything is a team everything is a team effort.

所以我们花了大量时间与他合作，打磨并协助完善剧本，然后真正思考如何将其融入游戏中。

So we spent a lot of time working with him kind of polishing, helping polishing the script and then trying to figure out how to put it into a game, really.

他以视觉小说闻名，这是一种非常独特的叙事形式，有些元素在这种格式中效果很好，但在生存动作恐怖游戏中却未必适用。

So he's known for, again, for visual novels, which is a very particular type of storytelling and some things don't work as well in kind of like a survival action horror that they do with this type of format.

因此，关键在于如何处理这些海量信息，比如，这个场景可以做成过场动画，但这一句话的成本可能高达二十万美元。

So it was all about kind of figuring out how do we take this very dense amount of information because like, it's like, okay, this this could be a cutscene, but this one sentence is gonna cost us like $200,000.

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

这种地方有很多。

There were there were a lot of those.

太棒了。

Amazing.

视觉小说里，你只需要一张图片就完成了，但在这种三维游戏中就不一样了，虽然画一个特定的东西可能很简单，但要建模、做物理效果，再让它动起来，那就完全不同了，真的很酷。

Which are which are very it's again, it's it's these visual novels You just have a picture there and you're done but like in like a three d game like this, it's like It might be easy to draw a particular thing but then to model that and then do the physics on it and then have it do this and you're like It's like it's cool.

是的。

Yeah.

并不是说它行不通。

Not not It's not that it doesn't work.

这一个句子可能得花我们半年时间来制作，你知道的，就是这种状况。

It's like it'll take us like half a year to do this one sentence, you know, kind of kind of deal.

对。

Right.

但其中一部分是，哦，抱歉。

But it was so a part of it was like oh, sorry.

我们在开发这款游戏时确立的关键支柱之一是，既然我们有一位知名作者，就必须确保游戏完全呈现出他的作品风格。

One of the key pillars of the game when we set up to do the game is that since we had a named author, we had to make absolutely sure that the game felt like it was one of his works.

因此，这一点是整个项目非常重要的核心支柱。

So that was a very very big part of this as a key pillar.

但另一个关键支柱是，游戏必须让人感觉像一款《寂静岭》游戏。

Another key pillar though was the game had to feel like a Silent Hill game.

是的。

Yep.

而在这个领域缺席多年之后，要承担这一点非常困难。

And which is very think a very tough thing to take on after so many years absence in the space.

没错。

That's right.

因此，这两点结合起来，很大程度上影响了我们对故事的处理方式。

So these things two combined were kind of like a big like how we approach the story.

而视觉小说，尤其是他的小说，以这种循环叙事著称。

And then because visual novels are known for, and his novels in particular are known for kind of this looping narrative.

所以我们觉得，这正是我们想要利用的元素。

So we're like, okay, this is something we wanna work with.

最初它并不是循环叙事，而是更传统的结构：你到达某个节点后，根据玩家的选择分支展开。

Originally it wasn't a looping narrative, It was more traditional where it's like you get to one point and then based on the actions just splits off.

但我们希望以某种方式赋予玩家更多价值，是的。

But we want to kind of do it like kind of give more value to the player Yep.

在这一点上，每次游玩时，游戏玩法都会变化。

In in that, like, every time you play, the gameplay changes.

因此，根据你作为玩家所掌握的知识、技能，以及你获得的物品和面临的挑战，你会以不同的方式应对同样的难题。

So based on what you know as a play your skills as a player, but then also the items you get and the the challenges you face, it's different ways to approach the same challenge.

至于故事部分，就像剥洋葱一样，第一次玩时你只能了解到一些内容，但随着你不断游玩，你会一层层揭开更多真相——不仅仅是改变过场动画或对话，还会新增游戏事件、改变结构、加入新的笔记。我们积累了大量密集的信息，如何组织它们，让你逐步揭开这些内容，是我们要考虑的问题。

And then also with the story, kind of like the onion, the first time you learn some stuff but the more you play, the kind of the more you peel away and not just changing cutscenes, changing some dialogue, but new events in the game, the way things are structured, new notes, it's kind of like we have all this very dense information, so how to organize it so that you slowly peel things away.

至于主题本身，正如你所指出的，我觉得这一点非常有趣，或者说写得极其出色：它虽然带有1960年代日本的视角，但主题又从女性视角出发，我认为这些主题能引起许多人的共鸣。对我来说，关键在于，不仅恐怖游戏，所有故事要想打动人心，都必须让人感觉与自己的生活经历息息相关。

And then for the thematics themselves as you pointed upon, I think it's very interesting to me or I think it's written very very well where it's like, yes, it's from a very kind of 1960s Japanese perspective, but the theming, oh and from a female perspective, but the theming is I think something that a lot of people can relate to and the big the big thing for me is that not just horror games but stories in general have to resonate with in order to resonate with someone they have to kind of feel like it's connected to a part of their own life experience.

对。

Right.

如果我只是随便写个故事，你可能会说：‘哦，好吧。’

If I just, you know, like oh, I'm just gonna write a random story and you're like, oh, okay.

那这跟我有什么关系呢？

So how what does that have to do with me?

人们不会产生共鸣，这或许正是近年来‘异世界’题材如此火爆的原因——它回应了当今的社会压力。

People don't resonate with it, which is like why I think lately like isekai has been really really big on the rise because of kind of societal pressures.

人们就是想逃离现实，想成为英雄。

People like I just want to escape and like I want to be the hero.

我想成为主角。

I want to be the main character.

我想当英雄，你知道的。

I want be the hero, you know.

很多异世界题材作品中，你都能看到这一点。

And and a lot of the isekai, you you see this

这是一种强大的幻想。

It's a powerful fantasy.

我不会说它们是自我代入。

Won't say they're self yeah.

我不认为它们完全是自我代入。

It's not it's I won't say it's like exactly self insert.

对。

Yep.

但你经常看到这种情况，他们总是从现实世界开始，或者主角过着非常糟糕的生活

But you see a lot of that where they start they they always start in the real world or where the MC has like a really shitty kind of life

朝九晚五的工作。

Day job.

是的。

Yeah.

继续着。

Going on.

对。

Yeah.

正是如此。

Exactly.

没错。

Yep.

而且你能看出来，你会觉得，好吧，他们就是在这么做。

And you see this, you're like, you you can kind of tell like, okay, they're doing this.

这是让观众与角色产生共鸣的重要部分，因为故事本可以只是直接开始一个奇幻故事，

It's a big part to kind of relate to the characters because it could have just been like a what do you call like a Like you just you just either start a fantasy story

是的。

Yep.

就这么个设定。

Kind of deal.

顺便说一下，前几天我意识到，我睡觉时突然醒过来，才发现《黑暗军团》其实是个异世界题材，而我竟然二十年来都没意识到自己一直想看这种故事。

Which by by the way, the other day I realized that I was sleeping and then I suddenly woke up and I realized that army of darkness was an isekai, and I didn't know I wanted to about this for like twenty years yet.

等等。

Wait.

如果你仔细想想，《绿野仙踪》也是这样。

And so was Wizard of Oz when you think about it.

《绿野仙踪》，没错。

Wizard of Oz, yes.

我觉得《绿野仙踪》这一点对我来说一直很明确。

I I think I think the Wizard of Oz was was definitely clear to me.

天哪。

Oh my god.

《魔幻奇兵》。

Army of darkness.

我从来没从这个角度想过。

I didn't even think about it in that way.

我的天。

Holy smokes.

我知道。

I know.

对吧？

Right?

我当时就想，等等。

I was like I was like, wait a sec.

我只是在睡觉而已。

I I was just, like, sleeping.

我当时就想，等等。

I was like, wait.

然后我就是睡不着，直到他们错过了两个小时。

And then I and I couldn't sleep till they missed two hours.

还有，阿尔，这真是一个很好的迹象，说明你总是在半夜突然冒出一些奇怪的起床时刻和想法。

Also, just a great indicator, Al, that you just have the most whack waking up moments and and ideas that are just coming to you in the middle of the night.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我觉得这简直是个诅咒。

I don't it's it's a curse.

我觉得有时候这真是个诅咒，因为第二天你去上班时，就会觉得，唉。

I think it's a curse sometimes because the the next day you're like, you're going to work and you're like, ah.

他们就会问：嘿，兄弟，你还好吗？

And they're like, yo, man, are you okay?

我当时就说：哦，我昨晚睡得不太好。

I was like, oh, I couldn't sleep well last night.

他问：‘为什么？’

He's like, why?

他说：‘因为我意识到《黑暗军团》就是这样。’

He's like, because I realized army of darkness was it's kind.

人们都会用看疯子的眼神看着你。

And people just look at you like you're crazy.

你会说：

You're like

老兄，啥？

Dude, what?

就是说，让你睡不着觉的居然是这个？

It's like, that that's what's keeping you up at night?

不管怎样，你刚才分享的关于与琉球合作以及多个结局的内容，有很多可以深入探讨的地方。

I mean, in any case, like, there's a ton to unpack with everything you just shared about, you know, the collaboration with Ryukyoshi to the multiple endings.

我真的想深入聊聊其中的几个点。

And I I just really wanna, like, dig into a few of these things.

你知道，多重结局是游戏中一个非常有特色的设计，真的非常棒，因为它能深深吸引玩家。

You know, the the multiple endings thing is one of those things that I consider a very spiky part of the game, which is really, really amazing because it draws you in.

我觉得，对于大多数Sun Hill的游戏来说，这一点没什么不同，它们也都拥有多个结局。

I I feel like with most Sun Hill games, you know, it's no different with with respect to the fact that it has multiple endings.

但你们的设计方式是，显然把第一条路线设为了必经之路。

But the way that you guys have set it up is that you've obviously made the first route mandatory.

对吧？

Right?

而且，即使玩家再怎么努力试图达成其他结局，最终还是会得到第一个结局。

And, you know, even if players try as hard as they might to engineer a different ending, you always get the first one.

你们是怎么看待这个结局的重要性呢？

How did you guys see the that ending's importance?

你们是否担心，如果玩家不继续体验其他结局，或者错过故事的其他部分，会怎样？

And, like, how worry were you guys if players were not going to continue or experience the other endings that the games had to offer or other parts of the ways the stories were gonna unfold?

明白了。

Gotcha.

我觉得这是我在论坛上经常看到的问题。

I think this is this is a question that I see a lot on forums and whatnot.

当然。

Of course.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以这属于保持独立游戏精神的一部分，没错。

So this is part of the being, I think, taking that indie spirit Yep.

然后将其拓展到这个领域。

And then moving it into kind of this realm.

对我们来说，故事之所以有多个层次，是因为我们将其设计成多层结构，如果没有一个基础，整个结构就会崩塌。

For us, the story, because it is in is in many layers and we structured it in many layers, without a kind of a base there, everything kind of falls apart.

所以如果第一个结局，你可以先获得任何结局，没错。

So if the first ending, if you could have gotten any ending first Yep.

那么，整个故事的结构就会崩溃。

Then the entire I think the entire structure of the story would fall apart.

但通过设置这种‘这到底是什么’式的开场结局，我们能够在每一圈循环中为你提供特定的信息。

But by kind of setting up the this kind of like what the hell kind of first ending, it allows us to do for each of the loops, it allows us to give you specific information.

是的。

Yep.

一种针对角色的具体背景设定。

A specific specific kind of like lore for the characters.

是的。

Yep.

随着你不断推进。

As you keep going.

但如果你从一开始就获得所有这些信息，整个结构就会崩溃。

But if you could get all of that from the very beginning, the the entire structure would fall apart.

我知道这有点复杂，当初确实是个巨大的冒险，绝对如此。

And I know it's it's a bit of a it was a was a lot it was a it was a huge risk Absolutely.

从叙事角度来看，这一点我们和科乐美以及幸志讨论过，是的。

For us narratively, and this is something we discussed with Konami and Yukishi Yep.

很多人觉得，玩家可能会对这个感到不满。

A lot was like, okay, I think players may be upset with this.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但通过这种方式，我们有机会创造出一种不仅限于《寂静岭》的独特叙事结构。

But by doing this kind of thing, it gives us a chance to create a narrative structure that is unique not just only to Silent Hill.

它依然保留了《寂静岭》的多重结局风格，但作为游戏类型，它是独一无二的。

It still feels like Silent Hill because of the multiple endings, but it's it's unique to gaming as a genre.

是的。

Yes.

在这种媒介中，我想我或许能在视觉小说里实现类似效果，但感觉不会完全一样，因为视觉小说全是文字，而现在你有更多与所见内容互动的空间。

And this type of this type of medium where it's like, I guess I could do this in the visual novel but it wouldn't feel quite the same because everything is text whereas now it's like you have a lot more kind of interactivity with what you see.

对于电影、电视、书籍这类线性媒介来说，这种做法并不容易实现。

With linear media like, you know, kind of film, TV, books, it's it's not something that would be readily available to do.

所以，这是我们在这个媒介中做些真正独特事物的机会。

So it's like, this is our chance to do something really unique in this medium.

对。

Yep.

他们冒险支持了

And they took the risk on

我们。

us.

太棒了。

Amazing.

神前说：‘好吧，我们试试这个吧。’

Kaname was like, okay, you know, let's let's try this.

由于我们知道第一个结局是强制性的，因此我们投入了最多时间，确保即使知道一些玩家可能会感到不满，我们仍尽力让他们的体验尽可能有趣。

And we spent a lot of but because we knew that the first ending was mandatory, we spent the most amount of time trying to make sure that even though we knew some players would be kind of upset, we try to make make the experience most interesting for them.

比如结尾的 Shimoku boss，我认为我们花了最多时间来设计，就是为了让整个段落对玩家来说格外有趣。

So like the the the Shimoku boss at the end, I think we spent the most amount of time on just to kind of make that entire sequence kind of like really interesting for the players.

所以那可能是最重要的事情。

So that was a that was probably the biggest thing.

然后另一件事是，你在论坛上看到的，我该怎么说呢？

And then another thing here is like, again, you you see on forums because how do I how do I say this?

所以我喜欢窥探。

So I spy.

我经常窥探。

I spy a lot.

我会在各种论坛上频繁窥探。

I spy a lot on all sorts of forums.

你总是在线。

You're chronically online.

我们总是在线。

We're chronically online.

我明白。

I get it.

我明白。

I get it.

是的。

Yeah.

但总是不太一样。

But it's always like different.

所以现在我要说了，如果有人看到这个采访，他们就会开始指指点点，像蜘蛛侠一样指着别人。

So now now that I'm gonna say this and if someone sees this interview, they're gonna start pointing they're gonna do the Spider Man and start pointing fingers.

但我几乎出现在每一个恐怖游戏或《惊悚》系列里。

But I'm in pretty much every single horror or Amazing.

《寂静岭》。

Silent Hill.

基本上，就是同一个社区。

Basically, single Community.

我们参与了《是的》。

We work on Yep.

我确实属于那个社群，但我每次都会用不同的名字加入每个社群。

I'm in that community, but I always use I use a different name in every single community.

我很喜欢这样。

I love that.

所以这不可能是真的，这不可能是真的。

So it can't be true it can't be true.

不过要追踪确实很难。

Well, it's tough to trace.

我平时不太说话，但当我开口时，我会提出非常尖锐的问题，以此来获得回应，看看各个社群有什么不同。

And I don't talk too much but I ask very Pointed Pointed questions when I do to kind of get a response and just to kind of see what what what different communities are.

比如，如果你在一般的恐怖游戏社群、普通的游戏玩家社群，以及某个特定系列的粉丝社群里问同一个问题，你会得到非常不同的回答，确实如此。

So like the horror if you ask the same question in just a general horror gaming community and then just the general gaming community and then a fan like a specific series fan community, you get very different Absolutely.

回答。

Responses.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

所以，这些信息在开发过程中也非常重要，因为作为开发者，我们自己也是《寂静岭》的粉丝，或者对我们所从事的作品的粉丝，但喜欢这类作品的粉丝群体多种多样，类型各不相同。

So and this is lots also information we take into kind of development because it's one of those things where it's like, as developers we are fans of Silent Hill ourselves or fans of the stuff we work on, but there's so many different fans, there's so many different types of people who enjoy this kind of stuff.

而且是以不同的方式。

In different ways as well.

是的。

Yeah.

以不同的方式。

In different ways.

没错。

Exactly.

所以这就像是，没错，我们某种程度上是在为自己制作，但其实我们真正是在为社区制作，但到底是哪个社区呢？

So it's kind of like, well, yes, we're kind of making this for ourselves, but really we're making this for the community and the and but what community?

这其中很大一部分原因是，自从《寂静岭》上次问世以来，已经过去太久了。没错。

A big part of this is that it's been so long since Sun Hill has been That's right.

在公众视野中消失了。

Out in the public sphere.

所以，好吧。

So it's like, alright.

我们可以指望那些老粉丝会说，哦，是的。

We can we can count on our like kind of the old school fans to be like, oh, yeah.

如果足够引起我的兴趣，我会去看看。

I'll take a look at this if it piques my interest enough.

但与此同时，我们也想扩大社区，吸引更多人加入，所以我们会看向更广泛的恐怖游戏爱好者，或者对这种设定感兴趣的人。

But at the same time we're like, well, you wanna grow the community, you wanna bring more people in, so you look towards like horror game, like just horror gaming fans in general or fans of the setting and whatnot.

然后我们去那里想，好吧，我们能不能做出一些至少能引起大部分人的共鸣的东西？你不可能让每个人都满意。

And you go over there and you're like, okay, can we make something that at least vibes with a big chunk of you're not gonna get everybody.

让每个人都开心是不可能的，但确实如此。

It's impossible to make everybody happy, but Yep.

能引起大部分这类玩家共鸣的东西，确实如此。

Something that vibes with a big chunk of these of these players Yep.

能吸引更多人加入。

Brings up people in.

然后尽力让每个人都满意。

And then try your best to make try your best to make everybody happy.

你做不到，是的。

You can't Yep.

对每个人来说都不可能，但这是我们真正努力追求的目标。

For everybody, but that's kind of a big thing we really strive for there.

那不是。

That's no.

这真的非常酷。

That's really, really cool.

而且，你知道，如果你在互联网上花足够多的时间，尤其是在与西蒙·希尔的讨论中，你会看到粉丝们一些非常精彩的回答，比如为各个角色创作的粉丝艺术。

And, you know, to to your point, if you spend enough time on the Internet, especially around the conversation with Simon Hill, you just see some really incredible, like, sort of responses from the fans, you know, like the fan art for the various characters.

你知道的？

You know?

人们真的很喜欢狐狸面具。

People really gravitated to Fox Mask.

他们，你知道的，把所有主要角色之间的关系设计得如此美妙，仿佛以自己的方式延伸了故事。

They they the you know, the way they've they've sort of formulated the the relationships between all the main characters is so so, like, beautiful, you know, in a way where it, like, sort of extends the story in ways of their own.

所以我真的很喜欢《寂静岭》社区中这些部分。

So I I really love those parts of the community around Silent Hill.

玩完游戏后，参与这个社区一直是我最大的乐趣之一。

It's been one of my greatest joys after playing the game is just participating in that community.

说到这个，就像你提到的，你活跃在所有论坛里。

Speaking of which, you know, like, as you mentioned, you're in all the forums.

你花了很多时间去探究和理解玩家对这款游戏的感受，以及他们对它的看法。

You spend a lot of time, like, figuring out and understanding sort of what have been players sentiments to the game and and what people have been thinking about it.

在社区里，你在网上看到的最让你惊讶的观点是什么？

You know, what has been the most surprising take for you from the community that you've seen online?

我觉得有很多。

Think it's a lot.

对我来说最令人震惊的是，让我们回到第一个结局，我们最初以为第一个结局才是最符合《寂静岭》精神的。

I think the most shocking one to me is how let's go back to the first ending, the first ending thing, we actually thought the first ending was the most Silent Hill Right.

就像。

Like.

对。

Yep.

然后按照传统方式，所有结局在开发过程中都没有命名，因为我们希望保持中立，比如结局A、结局B，对。

And then in kind of traditional fashion, none of the endings were called anything in development because we want to keep it as neutral as possible like ending a, ending b Yep.

结局C，结局D。

Ending c, ending d.

除了UFO结局。

Except for UFO ending.

UFO结局嘛，我们觉得：好吧，这个没人会误解。

UFO needs us like, okay, that's no one's gonna misconstrue that one.

对。

Yep.

对。

Yep.

因为我觉得以前的开发团队在之前的游戏中也说过，最终的解读应该由玩家自己决定，是的。

Because and I think previous developers on previous titles said this before is that it's up to the player to kind of choose the interpretation Yep.

由他们自己决定。

For themselves.

然后很多人说，我们上一个结局，最难的结局，他们称之为‘真结局’。

And then a lot of people are like, well, our last ending, the hardest ending is called they're calling it it's the true ending.

是的。

Yep.

真结局。

The true ending.

我当时就想，我们在开发过程中从未这样称呼过它。

I was like, we have never called that before in development ever.

是的。

Yep.

它原本是

It was it was

对我们来说，它只是被称为结局D，它之所以被锁定在其他结局之后，至少是被两个结局所限制。

simply known to us as ending d and the only reason it was locked behind all the other endings or it was locked behind at least it was gated behind two endings.

这样做的唯一原因是，如果没有了解第一轮和第二轮中发生的事情，这个结局就毫无意义。

The only reason it was done like that is because without knowledge of the stuff that happens in the first loop and then the second loop, that would make no sense.

因为如果你在一开始就能获得这个结局，你会觉得

Because if you've got that ending at the very beginning, you'd be like

你到底在经历什么？

What is going for you?

这到底意味着什么？是的。

What is well, what like, what is the what is the significance Yes.

这个结局的意义是什么？

Of this?

但如果你了解了第二或第三个结局的意义——也就是在固定结局之后获得的那两个结局——就足以让你理解这个结局在讲什么。

But with one with either the significance of the second or third ending, so the two endings you get after the after the fixed one, that is enough information to let you understand what's going on in in that one.

但每个人都说，这才是真正的结局。

But everyone's like, this is the true ending.

我们觉得，哦，这挺有意思的。

We're like, oh, that's interesting.

所以这就是你们认为的日野的正确路线。

So this is what you guys see as the correct path for Hinako.

而且again，我们看到很多人说，我喜欢这个结局，我喜欢那个结局，但一直以来，这正是《寂静岭》传统风格的精髓——由你来决定哪个结局最能引起你的共鸣。

And again, it's for we see people like, oh, we like this ending, we like this ending, but that's that's always been the point in traditional Silent Hill fashion is like, it's up to you to determine which ending resonates resonates with you the most.

因为again，主题的核心是，尽管背景设定在1960年代的日本，没错。

Because again, a big deal about the theming is that even though again nineteen sixties Japan Yep.

女性主题是许多人能够产生强烈共鸣的内容。

Female, the thematics are something that a lot of people can really resonate with.

我认为第一个过场动画播出时，整个亚洲的观众都感到：哦，这让我有点不舒服。

I think the very first cutscene all of Asia was like, oh, this is making me a little bit uncomfortable.

是的。

Yes.

我曾经也在这里。

I've been I've been here.

而这不仅仅关乎婚姻。

And then it's it's just not about marriage.

它关乎其他东西。

It's about something else.

是的。

Yes.

你知道的。

You know?

但那种情境、那种紧张、那种创伤，我记得第一次我们录制过场动画时，我录完后心想：我不喜欢这个。

But that situation, that tension, that that kind of trauma is like I remember the first time, like, when we record the cutscene and I finished, I was like, I don't like this.

这让我感觉非常糟糕。

This makes me feel this makes me feel real bad.

这很沉重。

It's heavy.

对。

Yeah.

但确实做得非常好。

But but it is really well done.

我认为西方的很多人也能产生共鸣。

A lot a lot of a lot in the West I think also can relate to that.

所以是的，那可能是结局，那种感觉对我们来说是个很大的惊喜。

So yeah, that's probably the endings and then kind of like the that was that was like a big surprise for us.

另一个是内部的，我想因为我们从一开始就都知道故事的发展，而且我们比其他人更早看到了很多额外的信息。

The other one is internally, I guess because we all knew the story right off the bat and how things were playing and we got to see a lot of extra information before everyone else.

当然。

Sure.

还有那个场景，当狐狸面具出现在神社里，像雅子猛地推开大门，他扑进他怀里，然后说：早上好。

When Fox that scene where Fox Mask shows up in the shrine where like Yako opens, like bangs open the door and he falls in his arms and he's like he's like, good morning.

我知道。

I know.

是的。

Yeah.

每个人都喜欢那个场景里的家伙。

Everyone loves that guy in that scene.

天啊。

Oh my god.

是的。

Yeah.

这是我们第一次有这么多女性开发者加入团队，确实如此。

It's the first time our so we have actually a lot of female developers on the team Sure.

我认为这是件很棒的事，绝对如此。

Which is I think a great thing Absolutely.

因为它为我们提供了很多不同的视角。

Because it gives us a lot of perspective.

我们的关卡主管是一位名叫凯莉的女士，我记得我们当时在看游戏中加入的脏话，她第一次看到时，我就站在她旁边，她转过身对我说：‘这个家伙真让人毛骨悚然。’

Our level lead is a lady called Kelly and then I remember we were watching the cussing we put into the game and the first time she saw that I was just standing by her and she just like turned to me and she's like She's like she's like this guy is so creepy.

我讨厌她。

I hate her.

是的。

Yeah.

他觉得这个家伙给人的感觉不太好。

He's like, I don't like the vibe from this guy.

然后我记起我们在东京的第一次记者发布会。

And then I remember our first journalist session in Tokyo.

是的。

Yeah.

有一位女记者。

There's a female journalist.

是的。

Yeah.

我大致转述一下，但在问答环节，她只是说：‘是的。’

And basically, I'm paraphrasing here, but like during our q and a session, she's just like, yeah.

关于狐狸面具。

About Fox mask.

他好像说，哦，不。

He's like, oh, no.

他好帅。

He's hot.

我知道。

I know.

你知道吗？

You know?

知道。

Know.

这个男人为什么这么性感？

Why is this man so sexy?

我当时想，哦。

I was like, oh.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

他是个男人。

He's an man.

你知道吗？

You know?

然后就是，哎呀。

And it's like, uh-oh.

哎呀。

Uh-oh.

是的。

Yeah.

游戏刚发布的时候，我一直在看大家的整体反应。

It's and and then just when the game came out just watching all the responses in general

是的。

Yeah.

内部来说，我觉得开发团队里他确实有一些粉丝，但我认为大概90%的开发人员都觉得那帮人很怪异。

Internally, I'm gonna say that we have he had his fans in in the dev team, but I think I'll say like 90% of of the dev team is just kind of like, those guys are creep.

而其他所有外部观众也都这样，每个观众看到你拿到狐狸面具时，都会说：‘你看到那个场景了。’

And then everyone else outside is like, every single kind of viewer is just like, you get the Fox mask, they're like, you get to that scene.

他们说

They're like

我知道。

I know.

而且我

And and that I'm

坐在那里，我想着，

sitting there, I'm like,

你知道，而且我觉得这恰恰证明了里基什的编剧功力，也证明了你们团队在塑造狐狸面具这个角色上的出色工作——他从一开始就是个明显的危险信号，但同时，就像大多数人一样，他也有种让人着迷的麻烦魅力。

and, you know, and that's and that I think that just a testament to, you know, both Rikishi's writing, but also to your your team's work on the portrayal of Fox Mass, right, where he's clearly a walking red flag from the very get go, but he's also, like, trouble in that, you know, oh, in that the way that, you know, most people are, like, really into.

所以，我觉得这非常有趣，不仅因为狐狸面具，还因为大家最又爱又恨的角色——林子。

And so, like, that's that I found that incredibly fascinating, not just about Fox Mass, but also everyone's most love to hate character, Rinko.

对吧？

Right?

你知道吗，如果你只玩过第一个结局，你只会看到她是个充满嫉妒的角色。

You know, like, she obviously, you know, if you only ever play the first ending, you only ever see that she's this way of this this jealous character.

我特别喜欢深入挖掘这一点。

And I just love to be able to double click into that.

在游戏中的所有角色里，你觉得哪一个在叙事、游戏中的定位以及表演呈现上最难把握、最重要？

Like, in your mind of all the characters that are in the game, who is the hardest, the most important one to get right, both in the narrative and their place in the game and how they're depicted through the performance?

这真是个难题。

Oh, that's a tough one.

我认为每个角色都有自己的位置，没错。

I think every character has their own place Right.

在故事里。

In the story.

编剧石山由纪说过一句话一直让我印象深刻，她说日香才是主角，你正在经历她的个人成长。

And then a writer, Yuki Shi san, says something that always stuck with me, is that Hinako is the main character and you're going through her personal Yep.

在这个游戏中，你经历的是她的旅程，但这并不意味着其他角色没有同时经历他们自己的故事。

Journey in this game, but that doesn't mean the other characters aren't going through their own journeys at the same time.

因为当你仔细想想，他们每个人都在经历这一切，尤其是修，修的经历特别激烈。

Because they're all, when you think about it, they're all going through it, especially like Shu, Shu's super going through it.

但我们只是没有从他们的视角来看，而是从日香的视角来看这一切。

So it's just, but we're just not seeing things from their perspective, we're seeing things from Hinako's perspective.

所以在录音时，我们在给演员们指导时，一直牢记这一点。

So that was something we kept in mind a lot when doing the recording, when giving kind of directions for the actors.

而且对于演员们来说，他们确实表现得非常出色，不仅我们的动作捕捉演员和日语配音演员，连我们的英语配音演员也是如此——他们在读剧本时，对如何演绎这些角色提出了很多问题。

And again, for the actors, they def they absolutely knocked it out of the park and not just our mo cap actors and our Japanese voice actors, but our US voice actors, like they they got to read when they're reading the script, there was a lot of questions on how they should approach these kind of things.

我认为，游戏的制作不是靠一小群人或某一个人完成的，而是大家共同努力的结果，正是因为出色的指导和全方位的出色表演，我们才能将这些细腻的信息和微妙的表演融入游戏中。

And I think everyone, again, games aren't made by small group of people, one person, it's a big contribution and it's because of kind of the really good direction and then the acting on all fronts that we're able to get these really subtle kind of information and kind of really subtle kind of performances into the game.

我认为这真的提升了整体体验，是的。

I think that really elevate everything No.

为了

For

太棒了。

It's so good.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以我非常感谢所有参与其中的人，因为如果没有这些，就像你在游戏初期看到的样子——当你还在开发时，这些内容都还不存在，过场动画只是用基础文本做的粗略草稿，但一旦加入动作捕捉，你就意识到：哦，原来如此；再配上配音，你就会发现：哇，每一个步骤都在不断丰富整个作品。

So I'm really really thankful for everyone very involved because it without any of this, it's it's like when you see the game in the very beginning when you have the game and it's you're still building it and none of this stuff is in there and you're like and all the cutscenes just kind of block outs with like basic text there and as soon as you get the mocap in there, you're like, oh, and then you get the voice acting, then you're like, oh, it's like every step just, like, adds more and more and more to it.

哦，我觉得这些表演极具吸引力。

Oh, I I I I found it the the performances were super magnetic.

而且，你知道吗，饰演清水由奈的演员加藤可奈子，据我所知，这是她第一次出演电子游戏，她曾公开表示，在演绎这个角色的过程中，她感觉自己快要精神崩溃了，这段话后来广为传播，无疑为游戏的口碑增色不少。

And, you know, obviously, the actress who plays Yinako Shimizu, Kanatsu Kato, you know, in her first ever video game role, if I'm not mistaken, you know, sort of went on record, you know, and this was this obviously went viral and obviously helped the game's case, saying, like, she felt her own sanity, like, sort of slipping as she was performing the role.

你知道吧？

You know?

那当时的情况是怎样的呢？你之前提到过一些关于剧本阅读过程中的疑问。

What what was like that well, you mentioned a little bit about, like, you know, the questions and, like, the the script reading process.

但你能再详细说说，她是如何和其他演员做准备的？你们又是如何引导出如此深刻的角色表演的？

But can you go into a little more detail about, like, some of the preparation work for her and the other actors and and sort of how you was able to sort of bring out all these character heavy performances?

所以，这一点再次证明了我们的演员非常出色。

So a a big thing, again, is a testament to our actors.

对。

Yep.

但关键的一点是，我们必须在游戏开发过程中录制所有这些内容。

But like a a big thing is we have to record all this stuff while the game is in development.

很多时候，他们并没有实际的布景，而他们传统上是舞台演员，不习惯一切几乎都是绿幕的情况。

So many times you don't have the the actual set and to them because they're traditionally stage actors, they are not used to everything is like basically green screen.

你可能看过昨天发布的一段幕后视频，能隐约看到一些

You probably there's a video that came out I think yesterday behind the scenes and you can kind of see some behind the scenes footage of

不错。

Nice.

动作捕捉拍摄的幕后画面，但那只是一个空房间，你知道的。

The mocap sessions, but it's just it's just an empty room, you know.

然后你只能假装那些所有的东西。

And then you saw you just have to pretend all that kind of stuff.

你们可能会在旁边有一些参考资料，比如一些这个区域应该是什么样子的图片。

You you might have some reference materials on the side which is like some pictures of what this area is supposed to look like.

但所有内容基本上都是基于概念艺术、剧本以及一些指导来推进的。

But everything is, they're basically running off of concept art and then the script and then and then some directions.

所以，再次强调，这些演员能够精准地把握住那种氛围，真是非常了不起。

So again, huge, like a huge testament to those guys really nailing kind of the vibes.

除了剧本、我们现场协助以及推动进展之外，对于每一个场景，我们每建一个场景，至少都会先搭建出它的三维空间。

Besides kind of the script and then us being on-site and then kind of helping kind of like push it forward, is that for each of the sets though, every single set we already built, we at least built the three d space for them.

然后在实景拍摄时，你可以看到一些奇怪的东西零零散散地摆放着，这些都是为了提示场景应有的样子。

And then on the set you can you can kind of see weird things kind of laying here and there and it's all kind of references to what this should be.

这里应该是墙，那里应该是个橱柜，这里应该是别的什么东西。

This should be kind of the wall, this should be like a cupboard, this should be whatever.

是的。

Yep.

这帮助他们更好地理解了当时的情境。

And that kind of helped them visualize a lot of what was going on.

而且我认为，我们一直都会进行剧本朗读，并且问他们：好吧，这里发生了什么。

And I think again, we always we did script readings and kind of asking them like, okay, so this is what's happening here.

这就是这个场景的重点。

This is the point of this.

所以，这个特定场景背后有这些原因，我们不仅在第一次循环时告诉他们，

So it's like behind this particular scene is these reasons and we let them know kind of like, not just on the first loop Mhmm.

而是让他们理解，从更高层次来看，这个东西意味着什么——比如，当玩家看到这个时，他们可能会这样想。

But like what this what what does this thing mean on a very high level which is like, okay, so then when the player sees this, they're probably gonna think this.

是的。

Yep.

但真正发生的是这个。

But really what's going on is This.

这里下面的部分。

This down here.

我想我刚才稍微略过了Rinko的问题，但Rinko其实是一个很好的例子。

So I think I kind of glossed over the Rinko question a little while ago, but Rinko was like a really good example of this.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

对吧？

Right?

在第一轮时，你会觉得，老兄，你到底有什么问题？

Where it's like in the first loop, you're kind of like, bro, what is your what is your problem?

你哪里不对劲？

What is wrong with you?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这就是反应。

That's like the reaction.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

就像这样，我当时想，老兄，这个女孩真是……不行，哥们。

It's like this I was like, dude, this this girl is nah, man.

没错。

Yep.

但随着你玩得越多，逐渐揭开真相，你就会开始理解她正在经历的事情，以及她的故事。

But then the more you play and the more you kind of unravel, you get kind of like the you kind of understand what she's going through also and kind of her story.

我在网上看到很多评论，人们会说：哦，你知道吗，他们开始感到非常……嗯，我懂了，我明白了。

And I see a lot of comments on this online is like you'll see people were like, oh you know, they start feeling very like, you know, I I get I get it.

我明白发生了什么，而且再次回到这一点，情况就是这样。

I get what's going on and it's and again looping back it's kind of like that.

说实话，并不是每个人都能理解，因为你需要那种共情的连接。

Not everyone's gonna get it quite honestly because you need that you need that kind of empathetic link.

但有些人在生活中遇到过这样的人，或者自己或亲近的人经历过类似的挑战，他们会说：哦，我明白她身上到底发生了什么。

But some people who've met people like this in their life or who've kind of had experience with this kind of challenge in their own lives or in lives of people close to them, they'll be like, oh, I I understand what what is going on with her.

我当时想，也许她做的并不对，是的。

I was like, maybe what she's doing isn't right Yep.

但在最后，我表示理解。

At the very end, but I I empathize.

我认为这是叙事中最有力的一点，我们特别确保这一点能体现出来，因为这非常微妙，是的。

And I think that is the strongest point of kind of narrative and that we really wanted to make sure that this came out because it's very it's very subtle stuff Yes.

有时候。

Sometimes.

然后，这也是演员们有时会被告知的事情，有些情况下我们确实想隐瞒信息，所以没有告诉他们。

And then this is something that the actors also sometimes we let them know and so for some we we really want to obfuscate things, we didn't let them know.

是的。

Yep.

但这在表演过程中是根据具体情况来决定的。

But it was kind of a case on case basis on during kind of the acting performance.

不。

No.

我 absolutely 爱死这一点了。

I I I absolutely love that.

你知道，所有演员在各自的角色中都表现得极为出色，他们的经历也如此真实可信，正如你所说，这是一个旨在从个人层面触动人心的故事——你会想，哦，我也经历过类似的事，或者我认识这样的人，或者这在社会和人性层面上我都能够理解，这让整个故事变得如此非凡。

You know, all the actors were so standout in their roles, and they they were so relatable in their experiences, as you say, you know, like, this is a very this is a story that's sort of meant to impact people at a personal level, like, you know, oh, I I've experienced something like this or I know people like this or this is something that I understand at a sort of societal and, like, a human level, which makes the story so so incredible.

另一个显然值得提及的亮点是西蒙·赫的战斗系统。

One of the other standout things, obviously, about Simon Her f that I have to talk about is obviously combat.

对吧？

Right?

你知道，能跟我讲讲你的思考过程吗？为什么在这个本应是核心生存恐怖玩法的游戏里，我们要加入武器耐久度、闪避帧、反击窗口这些机制？当然还有吉纳科的狐狸手臂，它彻底改变了战斗的动态。

You know, walk me through your thought process on why we've got weapon durabilities, we got dodge frames, we got counter windows, to a game that, you know, is is meant to be a core survival horror gameplay experience, and then, of course, Ginaco's fox arm, which totally changes the dynamics of the combat.

我特别想听你详细说说，这些元素是如何相互融合的。

I just love to hear you tell us more about how all that fits together.

我知道这个问题迟早会来。

I knew this I knew this question was coming.

这个问题迟早都会出现，只是时间早晚而已。

This question would be coming sooner and sooner or later.

我当时想，哦，朱尼到目前为止问的是个简单的问题。

I was like, oh, Juni's giving me like the easy question so far.

向上。

Up.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

当科乐美最初找上我们时，冈本先生主动联系了我们，当时我们正在协助他们为这款游戏做提案，我们已经了解了他对这个系列的初步规划。记得我们刚拿到相关材料时，心里就想：好吧。

So when Konami first came to us, Okamoto san reached out and we're we're helping with the pitch on the game, we knew about his kind of like plans for the series at that So point in I think when we first when we first got the kind of materials, it was kind of like, okay.

我们原本计划重制第二部，这一点我们是知道的。

So we're planning to do remake of two, we knew about that.

然后我们知道我们要做的不是《地狱火》，那它到底是什么？

And then we knew what we were gonna we're like, okay, that's not Hell F, what is it?

我们当时也不确定，但知道它设定在那个时代，甚至还没到1960年，只是感觉是日本主题的。

We're like, we're not sure it's but it's set in, it's at that point, was even not even 1960, it was like, okay, it's Japanese themed

好的。

Okay.

然后由由木负责编剧。

And then Yukishi is the writer.

我们有两张概念图，有概念艺术家的名字，还有一份剧本。

We have two pieces of concept art and we have the name of the concept artist and then we have a script.

好的。

Okay.

第一版剧本，就这些。

First draft script, that was it.

我们知道《城镇沦陷》，也知道《升天》。

And then we knew about Townfall, we knew about Ascension.

是的。

Yep.

我们还知道《短消息》，所以这些内容在一开始我们就都知道了，我们大致了解每款游戏是什么，或者至少知道它们当时的发展方向。

We knew about Short Message, so all this stuff was known to us at the very beginning and we kind of knew what each of the games were, what the other games were supposed to be at that point in time or at least the direction they were heading in.

对我们来说，因为我们都觉得，这家伙真的非常认真地想把《山丘》带回来。

So for us because we're like wow, this guy is serious about like bringing back Hill.

我喜欢，而且我

I love And I

我认为，其中一部分原因，是的，正是这种策略和热情让我们早早地加入了进来，当时我们就想，好吧，他不是那种随便说说‘我们要试试做《寂静岭》’，然后随便挑个游戏就完事的人。

think part of that, yeah, that the strategy and enthusiasm was actually what got us on board and early on to it was like okay, he's not just kind of like, it's not just like oh yeah, we're gonna try to you know do with Silent Hill and then you and choose a game and then they go around with it.

我们心想，天啊。

We're like, damn.

我当时是全力以赴的。

I was like going in hard.

我当时就想，好吧，咱们就干吧，行吧。

It's like this is I was like alright, let's do you know, okay.

咱们尽最大努力吧。

Let's let's let's do our best.

看看我们能做成什么样。

Let's see what we can do here.

那时一个关键问题是，我们不仅要区别于市场上所有的恐怖游戏，还要在众多《寂静岭》作品中脱颖而出。

So a big thing at that point in time is like how not just how we're gonna differentiate ourselves from all the horror games on the market, but how we're gonna differentiate ourselves in this massive lineup of Silent Hill titles Right.

陆续推出。

Coming out.

对我来说，我一向特别关注的一点是，我不太喜欢追随潮流。

And something for me that I always kind of like to pay a lot of attention to is I don't like looking at trends per se.

主要是因为你会想，天啊，

Oh, mainly because you're like, oh, they're like, oh, man.

现在抽取类射击游戏特别火。

Extraction shooters are really hot right now.

那我们就做个抽取类射击游戏吧。

Let's make an extraction shooter.

过去在MMO游戏上也见过这种情况，还有MOBA游戏，比如：哦，MOBA很火。

And you see this with like MMOs in the past and then like MOBAs like, oh MOBAs are hot.

那就做个MOBA吧，结果市场上突然冒出上万款MOBA游戏。

Let's make a MOBA and then suddenly the market has 10,000 MOBAs.

没错。

That's right.

有些人会比你做得快，有些人会比你做得慢，但你可能会经历一段时期，市场上涌现大量同类游戏，让你很难从其他作品中脱颖而出。

And people are gonna some people are gonna work faster than you, some people are gonna work slower than you, but you can have a period of time where there's going to be like tons of games of around the same type and it's gonna be hard for you to differentiate yourself from everything else that's out there.

并不是说你不该这么做，只是因为很多人想法相同，所以会更困难。

Not to say you shouldn't do this, it's just it's going to be harder because a lot of people are thinking the same thing.

是的。

Yep.

所以对我来说，另一个问题是，该怎么说呢。

So for me, another thing is it's how to put it.

人们喜欢的东西有时是循环的，如果某种类型或玩法过去非常流行，但之后有一段时间没有这类游戏了。

The things that people like sometimes are circular in the fact that if a type of genre or type of gameplay is really popular in the past and then but there's been no games of it for a while.

这并不意味着它不好。

That doesn't mean it's bad.

我认为这意味着同类内容太多了，需要一些时间冷却，之后才会重新回归。

I think this means that there's been too much of the same thing and it just needs some time to cool down before coming back.

所以，格斗游戏是个很好的例子。

So beat them ups are really good example.

是的。

Yep.

对我来说，你看九十年代，格斗游戏曾大规模兴起，然后有一段时间沉寂了。

For me, you see this like in the nineties, there's like a really big surge of like beat them ups and then something went quiet for a while.

到了二十一世纪初的二月，又出现了一波热潮，之后再次沉寂。

And then in the February, mid two thousands you get get this surge again and then this went quiet for a while.

我认为几年前，正如你所见，它突然又爆发了。

And I think a few years ago, as you can see it just boom it started again.

我们现在正处于格斗游戏的热潮中期，接下来会持续不断涌现格斗游戏，是的。

Think we're in and then as you can see at this point in time, we are in the middle of a beat them up kind of like boom era afterwards like boom, it's a non stop beat them Yep.

这并不是说中间阶段越南游戏突然不受欢迎了，而是因为这类游戏太多了，我已经玩过无数款，我想尝试些不同的东西。

And it's not that, again it's not that in the middle it's not that like suddenly Vietnamese got unpopular, it's just like well, it's been like I've had like a billion of these, do I, I don't wanna try something different.

这并不是说它不好，而是说：天啊，我真需要点新东西了。

It's not it's bad, it's like oh man I could use something.

我一直在吃同样的东西，是吧？

I've been eating the same One thing yeah?

对，吃了好几年了，也许我会试试别的，但几年后你会想，嘿，我其实很想念吃这种食物的感觉，于是就又回去了，你知道的。

Yeah for like years, maybe I'll try something different and then a few years later you're like, you know what I really miss I really miss you know eating this kind of food so you go back, you know.

所以，当我考虑将游戏推向特定方向时，这对我来说是个很重要的因素。

So that that's actually a big thing for me when I look at taking games in specific directions.

当然。

Sure.

这就像在问：这是不是过去曾经流行、却因为太多而逐渐消退的东西？还是仅仅因为市场饱和了？

It's like, is this something that was popular in the past that really didn't it just kind of fizzled out because there's too many of it or was just again just over saturation.

所以，我会去观察这一点，然后思考动作元素——比如，我们知道《寂静岭2》重制版会是一款非常传统、写实的《寂静岭》游戏，了解其他作品的特点，以及玩家的喜好趋势。

So kind of looking at that and then thinking about kind of the the action elements were like, okay, so we know that Silent Hill two remake is gonna be this type of very traditional kind of grounded Silent Hill game knowing what the other games were, seeing the trends of what players like.

你知道，有些系列本身就是典型的生存恐怖类型，但它们也有动作版的衍生作品。

As you know, there's there's some franchises out there which are very kind of survival horror, but they also have like action counterparts to them.

而这些动作版实际上非常受广大玩家欢迎，可能那些人原本并不是纯粹的生存恐怖爱好者，但它们成功吸引了很多新玩家。

And the action counterparts actually resonated really well with a like kind of a large population that maybe weren't pure kind of survival horror fans, but it was able to it was able to grab a lot of new people in.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我们正处于寂静岭复兴的前沿，所以我们想，好吧。

And because we're at the kind of the the tip of this kind of Silent Hill revival, we're like, okay.

我们该如何做到这一点？

How how can we do this?

我们该如何尝试吸引新玩家？

How can we try to bring new new people in?

这一点，科曼先生——科乐美《寂静岭》的制作人——非常清楚，这也是他主要考虑的问题之一：我不能只依赖老粉丝，我们需要吸引新玩家。

And this is something that Okamoto san, producer on Konami Sai, was very cognizant about and is one of his main things he was thinking about was like, I can't just rely on the old fans, we need to bring in in new guys.

所以我们正在越来越多地关注年轻一代或这一代玩家的兴趣，并思考应该在动作元素上加入多少比重。

So it's kind of looking at more and more what kind of younger gamers or gamers this generation would be into and then trying to figure out how much of an action scale we should put on.

实际上，我们曾经做过一件事：把所有游戏都列出来，放在一个从‘步行模拟器’到‘简短信息’之类的尺度上。

So actually we had this thing where it's like we had all the games lined up and on the scale of like walking simulator, also something like short message.

对。

Yep.

要在那里。

Be be there.

然后这边是纯粹的动作游戏。

And then like pure action game over here.

我们把每部《寂静岭》游戏在不同时期的表现，以及许多其他恐怖游戏在这个尺度上的位置进行了排名。

And it's kind of like ranking each of the Silent Hill games in each of the time periods and ranking a lot of other kind of horror games where they stood on that scale.

我们还观察了人们对这些游戏的反应，然后决定：在最开始，我们想让《寂静岭》大致落在这个动作强度的区间内。

And they kind of like kind of like how people respond to them and then kind of choosing, okay, at the very beginning, we wanna play Silent Hill around here kind of deal in terms of action.

因为我们已经有了剧本，知道正如你所知的，关于狐狸手臂，以及日菜子情绪的表达方式，还有她整个旅程、她的成长弧线。

Because we already had the script, we knew that, as you know, like, with with the fox arm, the and the way kind of Hinako's emotions and it kind of her her her her basically her journey, her arc

精神上的旅程，没错。

Mental journey, yes.

故事。

The story.

是的。

Yep.

我觉得情绪越来越激烈。

It's I would say the emotions get more and more heated.

在那种情境下，她最后非常愤怒。

She's very angry at the end at that kind of situation that's thrown at her.

所以这是一个完美的弧线，从生存恐怖开始，逐渐升级为动作恐怖，是的。

So it was a perfect arc to kind of start off more survival horror and then slowly ramp up into action horror Yep.

越来越强烈。

More and more.

由于剧本，我们从一开始就了解了狐臂的设计。

And because of the script, we knew about the fox arm from the very beginning.

我们就想，好吧，现在正是逐步升级的好时机。

We're like, okay, so this is the perfect time to kind of ramp this up.

太棒了。

Amazing.

所以剧本对这类设计也有很大影响。

So the script had a very large impact on that kind of thing too.

正因为如此，我们知道除了其他世界之外，还有雾世界。

And because of that, we knew that we had again, we had the we had the other worlds and then the the fog world.

但在我们的游戏中，情况略有不同。

Well, it's a little bit different in our game.

是的。

Yes.

你会注意到，你的背包里大部分物品，除了奥莫里和一些关键物品外。

You'll notice like your inventory for the most part besides kind of Oomori and some key things.

你的背包物品不会跨世界保留。

Your inventory doesn't Doesn't carry over.

不会跨世界保留。

Doesn't doesn't carry over.

这本意是给玩家一个非常明显的提示。

And that was that was meant to be like a really big hint for the players.

他们会觉得：什么？

They're like what?

然后，是的。

And then Yep.

我们留下了很多这样的小线索，让你在第一轮游玩时就能根据这些内容推测出究竟发生了什么，但正因为如此，两侧的敌人也有所不同。

We we left a lot of these little hints towards like you you might be have been able to figure out during your first round of what exactly was going on based on this kind of stuff, but because of that, the enemies were different on both sides.

你所面对的挑战，以及游戏节奏方面的考量，也让玩法变得不同。

Kind of the challenges you faced, the gameplay was was different for pacing reasons also.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但由于Hinako的特性以及我们后续推进的游戏设计，我们当时决定只保留近战机制。

But because of the the nature of Hinako and then the gameplay we went on to push, we decided to go melee only at that point of time.

此外，这也是一个问题：我们该如何处理狐狸手臂？

Plus it's it's one of the things where it's like, well, what what do we do for the fox arm?

因为在后期，你会同时面对来自两侧的敌人，如果我们设计一个以远程攻击为主的敌人，而你突然获得这个能力，那就意味着我们必须大量额外工作来同时适配这两种情况。

Because towards the end, you you fight enemies from both sides where like, if we design an enemy with ranged in mind and then you suddenly get this, it's like it's we have to build a lot of stuff to kind of accommodate accommodate both of them.

是的。

Yep.

这是一个有意识的决定。

So that was a conscious decision.

好的。

Okay.

我们将专注于近战。

We're gonna focus on melee.

另一个重要原因是我们看到枪战在生存恐怖和动作恐怖游戏中不断被反复探索，总是离不开枪械。

Another big reason is that we see gunplay keeps getting explored in survival horror, action horror, always guns.

是的。

Yep.

而且枪战变得越来越复杂。

And they get more and more complicated.

拿起你的枪，改装它，切换配置，有各种不同的配件，枪战机制变得越来越复杂，但近战却一直只是被视为一种备用手段。

Take your gun, you mod it, you switch it up, there's different like attachments, like like the the gunplay gets more and more complicated, but Melee has always been kind of like, oh, is your fallback.

你知道，他们有近战，是的。

You know, they have Melee Yeah.

但它从来不是你的主要手段。

But it's never like this is your primary thing.

是的。

Yep.

所以我们决定，好吧，我们就从这个入手。

So we're so we kind of we're like, okay, let's take that.

这种近战战斗，恐怖游戏玩家是懂的，但从未达到过这种程度。

So this is something that just horror gamers are horror gamers understand melee combat, but not at this level.

对。

Yeah.

所以我们想，好吧，与其强化远程战斗，不如把近战系统拿过来，往更深的方向发展。

So we're like, okay, instead of pushing the range, we're take the comp we're take melee and push push that direction.

但远程战斗已经做得太好了，已经被打磨到了极高的水准，嗯。

But because ranged combat is so well done, it's it's been refined to such a high degree Mhmm.

在恐怖游戏中。

In horror games.

我们希望确保将这种感觉带入近战中。

We want to make sure to bring that feeling into melee.

恐怖游戏战斗与动作射击游戏的区别在于节奏。

And So the thing about horror gaming combat is like versus like action shooter, is just pacing.

两者都使用枪械，比如手枪，也都使用机枪。

It's like you do it's a gun, it's a pistol in both of them, it's a machine gun in both of them.

那区别在哪里呢？

So what's the difference?

其实就是节奏的问题。

It's it's kind of the pacing.

比如你射击僵尸时，击中了却感觉毫无冲击力。

It's like well like when you shoot a zombie, you hit them it's like, there's like no impact.

是的。

Yep.

你会觉得这感觉很无力。

You're like, it feels weak.

要打中这么多子弹才能击倒一个敌人。

It takes so many bullets to take down an enemy.

很慢。

It's slow.

非常非常慢。

It's very very slow.

而像动作类射击游戏，一转角就砰一下解决掉。

Whereas like an action kind of shooter, just like go around the corner and like bam.

是的，确实如此。

Yeah it is.

就像你那个多人模式的枪。

And like you're you multi guy's gun.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.