丹·科关于培养成功、人工智能与充实生活

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

所以从这个角度来说，如果你能适应并理解商业的基本原理，那么只要你不局限于某个特定的利基市场，你的收入就不会轻易下滑。

So in that sense, like, you're able to adapt and understand the principles of business, then I don't see your income going anywhere very quickly unless you're tied to specific niche Mhmm.

或者你依赖某个具体的产品、服务，或者某种意识形态。

Or product or service that like, ideology again.

是的。

Yep.

所以，如果你无法改变自己——比如你的技能、信念等，这些构成了你是谁的本质。

So, like, yeah, if you're not able to change, one, who you are, which is com like, your skill set, beliefs, etcetera, compose that who you are.

如果你无法改变自己，就很难扮演游戏所要求的角色。

So if you aren't able to change who you are, then it's going to be difficult to, like, be the character that the game requires.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Yeah.

把事情游戏化。

Gamify things.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这跟你所谈论的内容是一个共同的主题。

So it's a common theme with with the stuff that you talk about.

是的。

Yeah.

把你的生活游戏化。

Gamifying your life.

你认为为什么会这样？

Why do you think that is?

我注意到太多模式了，这不可能没有道理。

I noticed way too many patterns for it not to make sense.

比如，那本关于心流的书。

Like, in flow, the book.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

作者是米哈里·契克森米哈赖。

Just by Mihai Csikszentmihai.

我简直不敢相信你刚才把那个姓氏念对了。

I can't believe you just pronounced that last name correctly.

我在这方面很拿手。

I'm good at it.

我练习过，因为我知道我会经常提到它。

Practiced it because I know I'd be saying it all the time.

但要进入心流状态，需要满足不少条件。

But, like, to get into the flow state, there's there's a good amount of requirements.

比如，关于这个状态，有很多东西你可以学习和理解。

Like, there's a lot of things that you can study and understand about it.

但最重要的是技能和挑战之间的平衡。

But the main thing is just skill and challenge.

也就是说，游戏的等级，以及你是高于这个等级还是低于这个等级。

So it's, like, level of the game and whether you're a higher level than that or you're a lower level than that.

比如，如果你等级太低，比如你是一级，却面对五十级的对手，你一击就会死。

Like, if you're too low of a level, if you're a level one and you're facing a level 50, you're going to die in one hit.

但如果你是五十级，却去打一级的对手，那根本不会有趣。

But if you're a level 50 and you're facing a level one, it's just not going to be fun.

所以关键在于，你要在自己的等级上玩，但这样说又太简化了。

So the thing there is, like, you to play at your level and slow that's oversimplified.

通过在生活的各个领域——财务、事业——逐步迈向下一个等级，做那些让你能晋升的事情，从而利用心流状态的不同层次来创造美好生活。

That's how you create the good life by tapping into degrees of the flow state is at any given domain of your life finances, business, you are trying to just slowly reach the next level and do the things that allow you to reach the next level.

而这对每个人来说都会不同，因为有些人可能是一级，却在学习五十级的内容，别人告诉他们要做这做那，却没有考虑到初学者的实际情况。

And that's going to be different from everyone cause some people are going to be like, you're going to be a level one and you're studying a level 50 and they say to do this, this, and this without bringing it into the context of the I mean, the beginner.

是的。

Mhmm.

他们只是说，这是我做的。

Like, they're just saying, here's what I do.

是的。

Mhmm.

他们可能不会意识到，他已经是level 50了。

They may not see that as, oh, he's a level 50.

他花了很长时间才达到那个水平。

It took him a while to get there.

他们会去尝试。

They're gonna try that.

他们会失败，然后可能因此非常沮丧，再也不愿尝试了。

They're gonna fail, and then they're gonna potentially be all upset about it and not not try again.

是的。

Mhmm.

所以，这就是游戏化中合理的一点。

So that's, like, one thing that made sense with gamification.

我不记得你具体是怎么说的，但你提到过，你越处于心流状态，生活就越美好。

I don't know the exact quote that you used, but you said something along the lines of the more you're in flow, the better your life is.

而且看起来，在体育之外，普通人除了高中时期打球的时候，现在已经没有什么能让他们进入心流状态了。

And it seems like outside of sports, the average person has outside of sports when they were playing back in high school, they don't really have anything that puts them in that flow state anymore.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得普通成年人，我真希望有人做个调查，看看他们上一次感受到心流是什么时候。

I feel like the average adult I would love to see a survey of this when the last time they felt like they were in flow.

我相信对很多人来说，那已经是二十年前的事了。

And I would I'm sure it's twenty plus years for so many people.

我知道写作显然是能让人进入心流状态的一种活动。

And I know writing, obviously, is one of those things that puts you in flow.

但你觉得这意味着人们需要更多能让人进入这种状态的创造性活动吗？

But do you think so that means people need more creative endeavors that put them in that state?

或者，如果人们听到这个，觉得‘心流等于美好生活’，但他们自己没有任何能带来心流的活动，那他们可以做些什么呢？

Or what are the things that people can be doing if they're hearing this and they're like, flow equals a good life, but I have no activities that put me in flow.

这其实涉及很多方面，因为实际上任何事情都可能让你进入心流状态。

It it comes down to a lot of things because really anything can put you into flow.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这是一种状态。

And and it's a state.

它是一种具有不同程度的心智状态。

It's a state of mind that has certain degrees to it.

它更像是一个连续谱，而不是非有即无的状态。

It's like on a spectrum rather than like flows on or flows off.

更像是一个刻度条。

It's more like a bar.

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如，我现在处于50%的沉浸状态。

Like, I'm at 50% flow.

我处于100%的沉浸状态。

I'm at a 100% flow.

但在我看来，进入这种状态的方法是解决自己的问题。

But the way to get into it, in my eyes, is solve your own problems.

嗯。

Mhmm.

要做到这一点，首先，你要识别出这些问题，并意识到它们的存在。

And the way to do that is, one, you identify the problems, you become aware of them.

其次，你要设定一个想要达成的目标，最好是一个宏大且不切实际的目标，因为这样能提供远见。

Two, you set a goal that you want to achieve, preferably big and irrational because that provides vision.

有些人反对设定宏大且不切实际的目标，认为它们没有意义，或者太过遥远，但其实这并不是设定目标本身的用意。

Some people are against, like, big and irrational goals because they think they don't serve a purpose or they're just too far out there when that's not the purpose of setting the goal itself.

你其实并不太关注能否真正实现它，因为你和目标之间的差距实在太远了。

You're not really too focused on that in achieving that because the gap between you and it is so far.

你没有清晰的方向。

You don't have clarity.

这就像你处于100级，而你才1级。

It's like that's level 100, you're level one.

这种做法简直是糟糕的配方，中间什么都没有。

That's a bad recipe just with nothing in between.

所以它能提供愿景，这 arguably 比一个小目标更具激励性，比如我的大目标是在两年内练出六块腹肌，躺在沙滩上，看起来很棒，吸引所有女性，不管是什么，你都可以整天幻想。

So what it does is it provides vision, and that's arguably more motivational than a small goal, where my big goal to, in two years, have six pack abs, be laying on the beach, look amazing, attract all the women, whatever it may be, like you can fantasize all day long.

这比‘我想每周减一磅’更具激励性，因为你看不到任何可衡量的进展。

That's a lot more motivating than I want to lose a pound a week, and I'm going to focus on that because you don't see any measurable progress.

所以你需要两者兼备。

So you need both.

你需要愿景，也需要将它分解成子目标，以获得清晰感。

You need the vision and you need to break that down into sub goals just for clarity.

你刚才提到的那些目标，只是为了提供视角。

Like none of those goals that you just talked about, that's for perspective.

这并不是为了说，‘我迫不及待想实现这些目标’。

That's not for, oh, I can't wait to achieve these goals.

我会精确地达成这些目标。

I'm going to hit these exactly.

这是为了获得清晰的认识。

It's to gain clarity.

理解这条路径。

Understand the path.

了解你需要做什么、需要学习什么、需要充实哪些知识，拥有正确的思维和视角，才能坚持下去，并知道需要多长时间。

It's to understand what you need to do and what you need to learn and what you need to educate yourself on and just having the mind and perspective to be able to stick that out and know how long it's gonna take.

当你细化到这一周的目标是减掉一磅时，你就处于一个很好的状态了。

And then when you get down to, okay, goal for this week is to lose one pound, then you're in a good place.

你会清楚地知道每天该做什么来实现这个目标。

You'd really know what you should be doing on a daily basis to achieve that.

但你需要以一种可管理的方式，将这种模式重复应用到你生活的每个领域。那些有更多空闲时间的人，比如学生、暑假期间的年轻人，往往忽视了自己拥有多少时间，他们本可以利用这些时间进入心流状态，去做这些事。

But then you repeat this for each domain of your life in a manageable fashion, where people that have more time on their hands, like kids that are in school or like during summer or something like that, young people have a lot of like, a lot of them take for granted how much time they have, and they could fill it with getting into flow state by doing these things.

因此，你可以为健康、事业设定目标，如果愿意，也可以为人际关系设定目标——健康、财富、人际关系、幸福，甚至可能为精神层面设定一个目标。

And so you can set a goal for health, business, you can set a goal for relationships if you want, health, wealth, relationships, happiness so you can possibly set one for spirituality.

但针对每一件事，你现在都面临一个挑战和责任，必须付诸行动，并且随着时间推移，逐步接纳相应的身份，才能成为那样的人。

But then with each of those things, now you have a challenge and responsibility that you can take on and your actions have to follow that and you have to adopt the identity over time in order to become that person.

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果我的健康目标是练出六块腹肌，或者每周减一磅，那我就得做点什么。

So if I have the health goal of getting six pack abs, whatever, losing a pound a week, then I need to I have something to do.

我有了愿景、动力和清晰的路径，这就是我聚焦行动和实际行为的方向。

I have a vision and motivation and clarity on how to get there, and that is where I'm focusing my actions and what I'm actually doing.

所以我首先需要学习的是：为了达成这个目标，我该怎么吃？

So first thing I need to learn is, like, how do I eat in order to do that?

这一切背后的基本原则是什么？

What are the fundamentals of all of that stuff?

当你行动或所接触的事物背后有了意义和意图，它们就会变得更有价值，而不是仅仅因为‘我知道学习营养学是好事’，所以我就去做，却没有任何实际应用目标。

And when you have that meaning and intention behind your actions or the things that you're consuming, it becomes a lot more meaningful rather than like, Oh, I know that learning about nutrition is a good thing to do, so I'm going to do it, but I don't really have anything to apply it to.

我没有把目标分解开来，也没有从能够理解这些信息并提取出与目标相关的重要内容的视角或框架出发，因此无法开始尝试这些内容，也无法日复一日地建立反馈循环，让这种循环持续推动我前进，最终它会慢慢变成一种习惯和身份。

I don't have the goals broken down, I don't have the perspective, the frame from which I can perceive this information so I can extract something important that applies to the goal and then start experimenting with that thing and slowly start building that feedback loop of results day in, day out that keeps me going, and slowly it just becomes habit and identity.

随着时间推移，你会拥有所有这些习惯，它们共同塑造了你理想的生活方式，而你早已长期践行这些行为，只是现在它们已经逐渐积累成型。

And then over time, you have all these habits that create your ideal lifestyle that you did for so long, but now it's built up over time.

为了进一步说明这一点，书中我特别喜欢的一个反向愿景概念是：做同样的事情，但面向的是生活中你完全不想要的那一端。

And to build on that, the anti vision, which was a part of the book that I really enjoyed, which is this concept of take doing that same exact thing but with the opposite end of the spectrum of

是的。

Yeah.

你生活中所有不想要的东西。

Everything you don't want in life.

这很酷，因为它既给了你一个追求的方向，也给了你一个逃避的目标。

It's it's cool because it gives you something to run towards, but also something to run away from.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得，有一个想要逃离的东西，往往甚至更具有力量。

And I feel like having something to run away from is oftentimes even more powerful.

更有动力。

More motivating.

是的。

Yeah.

因为很多人经常就是这样做的。

Because that's what people are doing a lot of the time.

大多数人的行为都是基于这一点。

That's what most people's actions are based on.

把它和生存与身份联系起来，就是人们害怕去上班、见老板，或者在学校或工作中被评价。

Tying it back to, like, survival and identity is, like, people are in fear to go to the job or see their boss or be graded at school or at work.

所以当他们离开学校和工作后，就会做一切事情来逃避那种感觉。

And so when they're off school and work, they do everything to kind of hide from that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

他们通过分散注意力来逃避，比如看太多电视之类的。

They distract themselves, they'll watch TV too much or whatever it may be.

所有的行为方式都各不相同。

Like, all the actions are different.

就是这样。

And that's just that.

在反向愿景中，你有意识地这样做，但你在强迫自己走向更好的方向。

With the anti vision, you're doing that consciously, but you're forcing yourself in a better direction.

这就像是：这是我不要的，我必须往相反的方向推动。

It's like here's what I don't want and I need to push the other way.

如果我对这两方面都有清晰的认识，我的参照框架就会大大扩展，生活中我所感知到的所有信息都会获得某种意义，我能识别出‘我不希望这些出现在我的未来’，这类想法就会被储存起来。

And if I have clarity on both of those, then my frame of reference just becomes so much greater where all of the information I'm perceiving in life gains some form of meaning, where I can identify something as I don't want that in my future, and that kind of just gets stored.

所以下一次当你面临与之相关的抉择时，你会做出更好的决定。

And so the next time an action comes up where you're faced with a decision related to that, you're going to make a better decision.

拥有愿景时也是同样的道理：我希望这些出现在我的未来。

And the same thing goes for having the vision where it's like, I want that in my future.

你心里记下来，这些积累起来，然后再次强调，这一切都围绕着人类行为和决策，因为这才是真正重要的。

You take mental note, it starts to build up, and then, again, it's all just framed around human behavior and decision making because that's really all that matters.

是的。

Mhmm.

除此之外，所有的推测、愿景构建和目标设定，都是为了塑造一种视角，让你能够以一种导向理想未来的方式去感知各种情境。

Everything else outside of that, all of the speculation and vision building and goals, is to create the perspective that will allow you to perceive situations in a way that leads to decisions that lead to that ideal future.

阻碍人们踏上这条通往那些宏大且非理性目标之路的最大因素之一，就是限制性信念。

And one of the biggest things that stops people from even starting on that path towards those big and irrational goals is limiting beliefs.

我很想知道，当你刚开始进入创作者经济时，你的限制性信念是什么？因为现在很多人把你视为指引之光。

And I'd be curious for what your limiting beliefs were when you were at that first stage of the creator economy because so many people see you now as this guiding light.

我认为，很多刚开始起步的人，会觉得那些成功人士并不像普通人。

And I think that when a lot of the people who are first getting started, they don't feel like those people are human.

你知道吗？

You know?

他们觉得那些人和自己本质上不同，认为那些人在起步阶段脑子里根本没有过类似的信念。

They they think that there's fundamentally different than them in some way and that they didn't have those same beliefs in their head when they were first getting started.

只有真正去做了，你才会意识到：天啊。

And it's only through actually doing things that you realize, oh, shit.

每个人其实都差不多。

Everyone's kinda like that.

是的。

Yeah.

对你来说，那些信念具体有哪些？

What were some of those beliefs for you?

其中一个很大的信念是，人们不会喜欢我发的内容，或者更让我纠结的是，我会说错话——当我发布建议时。

One big one was that people weren't going to like what I posted or that a big one that actually sat with me a lot is that I would be wrong in the things that I'm saying, where I would post advice

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后，某个比你更懂的人会进来评论，说你错了，或者开始跟你争论。

And then then someone more knowledgeable than me would come in and comment and say how I'm wrong or, like, start some form of an argument.

这种情况很少发生，但我一直觉得：我没有足够的知识来给出这种硬核的建议。

That happened very rarely, but it was always like that was the belief in my head where it's like, like, I'm not knowledgeable enough to give this hard advice.

我该不该还是发出去呢？

Should I post it anyways?

因为它确实帮到我了。

Because it did help me.

而那就是那样了。

And that was kind of that.

然后你就干脆还是去做，那些限制性的信念就开始慢慢消失了。

And then you you kind of just do it anyways, and then the limiting beliefs start to fall off.

对吧？

Right?

因为那只是一个信念而已。

Because it's just a belief.

如果你从积极的角度去思考它，最终它不再是一个限制性信念，会发生什么呢？

Like, what's gonna happen if you just think it through in a positive direction and eventually it is no longer a limiting belief?

是的。

Yeah.

你 anyway 都在做这件事。

You're doing it anyway.

对吧？

Right?

这就是一切，因为我们都有冒名顶替综合症。

That's that's everything because we all have that impostor syndrome.

没错。

That yeah.

我过去确实有更多限制性信念，它们在我身上持续了更久。

That's always the thing that came to my mind where I did have more limiting beliefs in the past, and they stuck with me for a bit longer.

现在它们偶尔会冒出来，但我能更快地超越它们，因为我有经验，知道是否在欺骗自己。

And now it's like some pop up here and there, but I can move past them a lot quicker because I have the experience to do so and, like, know whether or not I'm bullshitting myself.

但我一直认为，更多人应该这样想，尽管这很难。

But one thing I've always thought that I feel like a lot more people should, and this is difficult.

说起来容易做起来难。

It's, like, easier said than done.

但你要意识到，你还能做什么呢？

But realizing, like, what else are you gonna do?

你得权衡一下选择，比如你有那些限制性信念：天啊，别人可能会觉得这条帖子不好，或者我错了，或者我知识不够、技能不足，这时候退一步想，你的两个选择是什么？

You have to weigh your options, where it's like you have the limiting beliefs of, oh, man, I don't like, people may think this is a bad post or that I'm wrong or whatever it may be or that I'm not knowledgeable enough or skilled enough, step back and like, what are the two decisions?

就是要么发出去，要么不发。

It's like you post it anyways or you don't post it.

那会发生什么呢？

And what's gonna happen there?

你既没有给他人机会评论、表达对你的看法，也没有给自己机会去证明自己是错的。

Where it's like you're not giving people a chance to comment and say what they think of you, but you're also not giving yourself a chance to prove yourself wrong.

嗯。

Mhmm.

反过来，如果你发了，你很可能会被证明是错的，你的限制性信念会慢慢消解，或者你不得不面对那个问题——真的有人评论，对你帖子说三道四，你得应对这些。

And the same thing in the opposite direction is like, if you post it, you're probably going to be proven wrong, and your limiting beliefs are slowly going to fall away, or you're going to have to encounter that problem, like the person actually commenting and saying whatever they want on your post, and you have to deal with that.

这是个你需要通过学习和锻炼来从心理上克服的问题。

That's a problem that you have to acquire the education and skill to mentally overcome.

归根结底，当你选择不管怎样都发出去时，无论怎样你都被迫培养出通往更好生活的技能。

And at the end of the day, when you move in that direction of just posting anyways, you're forced to develop the skill towards a better life either way.

换句话说，这是一种更积极的生活方式，而另一个方向则更消极，或者只是毫无成果，让你在不知不觉中越陷越深。

Like, it's a more positive life and the other direction is just a more negative life or just one that doesn't get results and digs you deeper into a rut without you really realizing it.

这真是让人感慨啊。

That's one oh, man.

这是我今天一直在思考的一件事：我写东西时喜欢把观点夸大到近乎绝对，听起来非常严厉。

This is one thing I've been I was thinking about this a lot today is how I like to exaggerate the points in my writing to the point where they become like absolutes or they just sound very harsh.

我知道这些说法是不对的。

And I know they're wrong.

我知道其中有很多细微差别，但我还是故意夸大其词地发出来，因为对我来说，重点不在于文字的字面意思，而在于它的隐喻意义——它如何让人产生感受，传达出核心思想，以及它能推动人们朝哪个方向前进。

Like, I know that there is nuance to them, but I post them exaggerated anyways because to me, it's less about the literal interpretation of my writing and more about the metaphorical, the more about how it makes someone feel, the point or the essence of the writing, and what it helps people do, and which direction it pushes them in.

我可以写一些话，比如‘99%的人对自己的生活都不满意’。

Because I can write something that says ninety nine percent of people are miserable with their lives.

当然，我也可以退一步想想，大多数人也都能意识到，事实并非如此。

And yes, I can step back and most people can step back and look around and see, no, that's not really the case.

有些人看起来挺开心的，但如果你仔细想想，就会发现大多数人其实都在默默忍受着痛苦，即使他们偶尔也有快乐的时刻。

Like, some people seem pretty happy, but then you really think it through and it's like most people are, like, silently miserable even even if they have those periods of happiness or not.

他们的生活 highs 和 lows 比那些敢于探索未知、真正体验生活的人要平缓得多——那些真实的大起大落，那种强烈的对比，才真正让生命变得有意义。

It's like the highs and lows of their life are a lot smaller than that of someone who is, like, pushing into the unknown and really experiencing life, those real highs and lows, the contrast that really makes life meaningful.

所以对我来说，并不是说有99%的人对自己的生活极度不满。

So to me, it's not that they're 99% of people are super miserable with their lives.

我只是想摇醒某个人，让他们意识到，过着重复相同行为、不敢冒险的生活是多么枯燥，而那些带来真正 highs 和 lows 的冒险，才通向有意义的人生。

It's me trying to, like, shake someone and make them see, like, how just kind of dull it is to live and repeat the same actions over and over without taking the risks that lead to the highs and lows that lead to something meaningful.

而且我觉得你之前说的关于发那条推文和不发推文的事很有道理，我们常常低估了不采取行动的后果，而这会导致熵增——这也是书中一个关键概念。

And I think what you were saying before about sending that tweet versus not sending that tweet and how we underestimate the the result of not taking action, and it leads to entropy, which is, like, a key concept in the book.

但我们总觉得什么都不做才是安全的选择。

But it's we we feel like doing nothing will is the safe choice.

但事实上，因为熵增是宇宙的法则，这根本不是安全的选择，对。

But in reality, because entropy is the law of the universe, that is not the safe choice Yeah.

因为你正在变得更糟。

Because you're getting worse.

你并不是原地不动。

It's not you're you're going nowhere.

不是的。

No.

你正在变得更糟。

You're getting worse from that.

是的。

Yeah.

所以如果你没有成长，你就是在死亡。

So if you aren't growing, you're dying.

对。

Yeah.

不可能保持不变。

There is no staying the same.

就像尽管人们希望保持不变，希望事情维持原状，但无常的法则——佛教中的概念，或者就是熵——意味着一切都会趋向混乱和无序；如果你不投入能量，无论以何种方式，朝着生活中的某个目标前进，你就是在投入能量去对抗熵，去感受那种变化。

Like, even as much as people want to stay the same or want things to stay the same, it's like the law of impermanence Buddhism or just entropy where it's like everything tends toward disorder and chaos, and if you don't put energy in whatever fashion, like in your life it's towards a goal, you're investing energy in towards a goal to reverse entropy and, like, feel that.

这感觉非常好。

That's what feels very good.

逆转熵增、接受这种挑战、进入心流状态、保持良好的心态，无论你怎么定义，都是你通往这种状态的方式。

Reversing entropy, taking on that challenge, flow state, good state of mind, whatever it may be, that's how you tap into it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

随着时间的推移，你会获得这种反馈，因此我很难愿意陷入惰性，或者去追求那种无意识的行为。

And you get that feedback over time, and so that's why I think it's hard for me to want to fall into the rut or, like, go after that mindless action.

回到你之前问的问题，那是因为我知道，这样做最终会带来远超最初想象的回报。

Going back to the question you asked earlier is just because I know that that is going to go so much further initially think of.

所以我必须持续投入精力，不断积累，做我想做的事情。

And so I have to just continue putting energy in, building it, and doing the things that I want to do.

因为另一点是，很多人以为自己只想无所事事地坐着，其实他们从未真正体验过自己真正想要的生活，也没能由此创造出属于自己的生活方式。

Because that's the other thing is a lot of people think that they want to just sit around and do nothing when they haven't really exposed themselves to the experiences that they do want to do and be able to create a lifestyle out of that.

所以你本质上是说，他们从未体验过实现某个目标的感觉，比如拥有六块腹肌、感觉状态极佳，因此他们根本不会采取行动去达到那个状态，因为他们根本不知道那种感觉是什么样的？

So essentially, what you're saying is that they've never experienced what it's like to achieve x or what feels like to have the six pack and to be feeling great so that so they don't they'd never take that action to get to that place because they don't know what it feels like to be there?

在某种意义上，是的。

In a sense, yes.

就像我经常反复思考的那个观点——这个时代默认的人生路径就是：上学、找工作、65岁退休、和一个你并不真正想娶的人结婚、做所有别人叫你做的事、追求所有人给你设定的目标，却从不打破这个框架去做自己想做的事，或者设立自己想要实现的目标。

Like, the thing that I always come back to and think about, and I get really repetitive with this, is just like the default condition path of life in this decade, which is go to school, get a job, retire at 65, marry the person that you don't really want to marry, do all the things that other people tell you to do, pursue all of the goals that everyone assigns to you, never break out of that and do the things that you want or generate the goals that you wanna achieve.

因此，大多数人一开始过的就是这种生活。

So with that, that's the life that most people start out on.

只有少数人能够从中脱离出来。

And a few people break off.

有些人会回到那条路，但关键在于你甚至无法用数字来衡量它，但如果非要尝试量化，那条路只占现实的0.0001%。

Some people go back to it, but the point is is that's like you can't even put a number on it, but if I were to try and put a number on it, it would be that path is 0.0001% of reality.

就像，那真是微不足道。

Like, that is so little.

就像，你想象一棵橡树及其繁茂的枝杈，你会觉得那是对现实的简化看法，而你把一片叶子及其叶脉视为人生中的那条路径。

Like, you think of an oak tree and how much that branches out, and you think of that as like a watered down view of reality, and you think of a leaf as, and the lines in the leaf as that path in life.

而你从未，比如，退后一步，回到根源意识去看到所有分支，然后能够选择一条，追求它，再回来选择另一条，最终偶然发现你真正想要追求的东西，或者你强烈感受到追求那件事的冲动或吸引力。

And you've never, like, backed out, gone to the root awareness to be able to see all the branches and then be able to choose one, go after it, come back, choose another, and eventually stumble across the thing that you do want to pursue, or you really feel the urge or the pull to pursue that thing.

当你开始投入精力时，它的吸引力就会越来越强。

And then when you start investing energy into it, then it just the gravity of it becomes more and more.

你之所以想继续追求它，仅仅是因为它让你感觉太好了。

Like, you want to continue pursuing that simply because of how good it feels.

是的。

Mhmm.

所以，如果你还没有接触过那种东西，而你正走在那条默认路径上，那么你真正想做的就是避开那条默认路径。

And so if you haven't exposed yourself to that thing and you're on that default path, then the thing that you want to do is avoid the default path.

你只想回家。

You just wanna go home.

你只想躺平。

You wanna lay around.

你只想看电视。

You wanna watch TV.

有些人可能想去健身房。

Some you may wanna go to the gym.

也许你喜欢那样，但大多数时候，你早上六十五岁醒来， wondering 你的生活去了哪里，听起来并不怎么样。

Maybe you enjoy that, but most of the time, you wake up at sixty five wondering where your life went and just doesn't sound too good.

这就是为什么我喜欢那句话‘机会消失了’，因为我觉得对于大多数逃离了那条路的人来说，都需要经历一件在当时看起来非常负面甚至糟糕的事情。

That's why I love the saying the ops goes away because I feel like for the majority of people who escaped that path, it takes something that in the moment seems very negative or awful even.

那种感觉就像是，你必须跌到最低谷，才会意识到：天啊。

There's, like, a sense of it almost takes you being in a very, very low point to realize, oh, shit.

这并不是我想要的。

This isn't what I want.

这并不是我想过的人生。

This isn't the path life I want to live.

是的。

Yeah.

我需要探索其他可能性。

I need to explore other possibilities.

对。

Yes.

这要看情况。

And it depends.

比如对我而言，通常是接纳低谷，才能迎来高峰，或者全身心投入到我所面临的问题中，而不是试图逃避它。

Like, for me, it's usually embracing the low that leads to a high or really immersing my mind in the problem that I'm facing rather than trying to avoid it.

因为如果我脑子里唯一想着的就是生活中所面临的问题，那么这就会成为我的思维方式或参考框架，我会开始感知相关信息，并逐步寻找可能的解决方案。

Because if the only thing on my mind is the problem that I'm facing in my life, then again, that's kind of like my operating perspective or frame of reference, and I'm going to start to perceive information and, like, stack potential solutions for that.

但如果我感觉糟糕透顶，讨厌自己的生活、讨厌自己的工作等等，但我真的感受到了这种情绪，而不是像很多人那样只是沉溺其中——我以前在工作中也这样，总觉得‘我讨厌这份工作’，然后就停在那里了。

Where if I feel like absolute crap and just hate my life, hate my job, whatever, but I actually feel that, like I'm not just drowning in that where a lot of people do that, where it's like, did it for a while too at my job, where it's like, I hate this job, and would end there.

嗯。

Mhmm.

就是讨厌这份工作。

It's like, hate this job.

好吧。

Okay.

我要回家了。

I'm gonna go home.

是的

Yeah.

去床上休息吧。

Go away to bed.

我可能会害怕第二天回去，但我还是会第二天回去。

I'm gonna dread going back the next day, but I'm gonna go back the next day.

我会说同样的话。

I'm gonna say the same thing.

所以你真的必须去感受它。

And so you really have to feel it.

你必须把它写下来。

You have to write about it.

你必须深入挖掘这个问题到底是什么，理解问题，像营销人员常说的那样，对问题保持高度敏感。

You have to like dig into what that problem actually is, understand the problem, become very problem aware as people would say in marketing.

当你在创作内容或着陆页时，你的任务是让人们意识到这个目前还称不上问题的问题，并希望通过这一点改变他们的生活。

Like, when you're writing content or a landing page, your job is to make people aware of this, like, of the problem that's not really a problem yet, and hopefully changing their life because of that.

我认为，好产品和坏产品的区别就在于，是否围绕真实的问题来改变人们的生活，而不是制造那些不存在或不重要的问题。

That's what I think separates a good product from a bad is, like, changing the lives of people based around real problems, not creating problems that don't exist or aren't too important.

回到正题。

Back to the point.

当你真正感受到这个问题时，你会开始注意到更多人身上也有它，因为这已经成为你的认知框架。

When you really feel it out, you you start to not only notice it in more people because it's your frame of reference now.

你脑子里想的只有这个问题以及与之相关的一切。

It's the only thing on your mind is the problem and everything associated with it.

你会在别人身上也注意到它。

You notice it in other people.

你会在工作中开始更多地注意到它，积累更多你讨厌它的理由，它真的会深深影响你。

You start to notice more at your job, and you stack more reasons as to why you hate it, and it really, like, starts to dig into you.

假设你在社交媒体上，带着这种认知去观察，当你看到有人谈论商业模式或任何自我提升的内容时，你会更容易接受，因为你心中始终惦记着这个问题。

And then let's say you're on social media, you're operating from that frame, you notice someone talking about a business model or really anything to self improvement, and you're much more open to that simply because you have that problem top of mind.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你更有可能出于好奇而非逃避，我认为这两者是截然相反的。

And you're more likely to be curious rather than cope, where I see those two as, like, polar ends of each other.

你要么对某事充满好奇，要么在找借口为什么做不到。

It's like you're either curious about something or you're coping as to why you can't.

就像是‘我为什么应该’ versus ‘我为什么不能’？

It's like like, why should I versus why can't I?

是‘我为什么不能做那件事’ versus ‘我为什么应该做那件事’？

Like, why can't I do that versus why should I do that?

然后，你可以看到网上那些人。

And then one is very like, you can see these people online.

这非常

It's very

非常吵闹。

Very loud.

非常吵闹。

Very loud.

是的

Yeah.

他们只是反复纠结于所有这些为什么不应该做或为什么不能做的理由，结果却毫无进展。

Where it's like they just go over all of these things that like, as to why shouldn't do something or why they can't, that gets them nowhere.

这纯粹浪费了他们三十分钟的时间。

That just wasted thirty minutes of their time.

但与此同时，那些充满好奇的人会提出问题，这其中蕴含着很多教训，但最关键的是，当你在网上对某事感到愤怒时，通常是因为你缺乏对对方所说内容的视角或理解。

But at the same time, the curious people, they're the ones that ask questions where there's a lot of lessons in this, but that's the main thing is, like, when you feel angry about something online, it's usually because you lack perspective or understanding of what they are saying.

你缺少了拼图中的一块，这时候你应该提出问题。

You're missing a piece of the puzzle, and you should ask a question.

你要保持好奇，训练自己的思维变得好奇，这样你才能学到更多，拓展你的视角，而不是一味地指责对方。

You want to be curious and condition your mind to be curious so that you can learn more and you can expand your perspective rather than just go off on them.

嗯哼

Mhmm.

至少不会有什么好结果。

At least to nothing good.

是的。

Yeah.

就像仔细思考后也不会找到这条路径的好结果。

Like the think it through and will not find a good outcome for that path.

对。

Yeah.

我认为好奇心是乔·罗根的超能力。

I think that curiosity is Joe Rogan's superpower.

前几天我看到一个梗，笑死我了

I saw this meme the other day and it cracked

上面说：九位牙医中有九位推荐佳洁士作为最好的牙膏。

me up and it was, nine out of 10 dentists recommend Crest as the best tooth best toothpaste.

然后上面放了乔的照片，配文是：杰米，我们能把第十位医生请上节目吗？看看他怎么想？

And then there was a picture of Joe, and he was like and the quote was, Jamie, can we get the the tenth doctor on the show, find out what he's thinking?

就是这样

That's

没错。

pretty.

但就是那种永无止境的好奇心理念，以及一种根本认知：每个人都是你的老师。

But just that idea of being relentlessly curious and have a fundamental understanding that, like, everyone's your teacher.

这样你能走得更远，而且这几乎是在生活中建立起了责任感。

You just go so much further and it almost builds in responsibility into your life.

从定义上来说，应对机制几乎意味着你没有对你正在应对的事情承担责任。

Coping, by definition, you're almost not taking responsibility for that thing that you're coping with.

你看，注意到这一点，我认为它与挑战有些同义，因为

See, note this and I consider it somewhat synonymous with challenge because

与挑战有关？

With challenge?

所以，就像是技能、挑战、匹配或挣扎。

So, like, skill, challenge, match, or struggle.

关于这一点，就像是第一级和第五十级的区别一样。

With that, it's the same thing about level one versus level 50.

如果你同时承担太多责任，就会感到不堪重负。

Like, if you take on too many responsibilities at once, you're gonna get overwhelmed.

这会引发太多问题。

That's gonna cause way too many problems.

你必须逐步增加自己承担的责任，并且要仔细筛选，判断它们是否真正相互有益，还是只是无谓地消耗你的时间和精力。

Like, you have to progressively overload the responsibilities you take on and you have to filter them very well to see if they are actually mutually beneficial or if you aren't just like wasting your time and energy on them for no reason.

对吧？

Right?

因为归根结底，这又回到了你的视角和你看待世界的方式，它为你除去的信息赋予了意义——当你拥有责任、潜在问题、挑战或目标时，责任的关键就在于它为你所负责的事物创造了一个目标或结果。

Because again, it goes back to just frame of reference and how you view the world, and it brings meaning to the information that you perceive, where if you have a responsibility or a potential problem or a challenge or a goal, like that's the thing about responsibility is it creates a goal or an outcome that you're trying to achieve with whatever it is that you're responsible for.

因此，你在接收信息时，能够从噪音中提取出关键信号。

And so you're perceiving information and you can extract the signal from noise.

你能抓住重要的部分，因为它们与你所承担的责任、挑战、目标相关，无论你正在努力实现什么，或背负着怎样的情感负担。

You can take the important things because it is applicable to that responsibility, challenge, goal, whatever it is that you're working towards or carrying, the emotional labor or emotional weight that you're lifting.

所以，再次强调，把生活看作一款电子游戏，这种思维模式能延伸到方方面面，就像举重一样，感觉真的很棒。

And so, again, life being a video game and that really transferring over into everything, it's the same thing with lifting weights where it just feels good.

就像那些去健身房的人，他们看到自己通过举重获得的身体进步，这些模式也会迁移到情感上的负担或承担生活中的责任、培养人际关系上，逐步增加这些负担，直到你看到由此带来的成果——那就是被真正有益于你生活的人和事所包围。

Like people that go to the gym and they see that progress, they see, like, the results that they're getting physically from lifting the weights, a lot of those patterns transfer over into like emotional weight lifting or just have taking on responsibilities or nurturing relationships in your life and progressively overloading those until like you see the results that come from those, which is just being surrounded by people and things that truly benefit your life.

你对生活所展现出的这种深思熟虑与质疑精神，非常独特。

This thoughtfulness and questioning that you bring into life, it's pretty unique.

在这个推特世界里，正如我们之前所说，你已经成为许多创作者的指路明灯。

And in this world on Twitter, you've became, like we said earlier, like, a guiding light for a lot of creators.

你认为正是这种深思熟虑与质疑，让你脱颖而出吗？

Do you think it is that thoughtfulness and questioning that has separated you from the pack?

你有没有想过，你和成千上万其他试图达到你这种境地的人，究竟有什么不同？

Have you thought about what was the difference between you and the other thousands of people who tried to get to the point where you're at?

是的。

Yeah.

我反复思考过这个问题，原因可能有很多。

I thought about it a lot, and it could be so many different things.

而且很可能是一堆

And it probably is a bunch of

不同的，是的。

different Yeah.

我觉得是一堆不同的事情累积起来的结果，就像我说的，我尝试过各种不同的生意，在大学里上了这么多不同的课，拥有非常多元的技能组合，但我在任何一项上都不是特别出色。

I feel like it's a bunch of different things that, like, just compound where, as I said, where I tried all those different businesses, I took all these different classes in college, and, like, I had this very diverse skill set where I wasn't, like, exceptional at anything.

我不是最棒的网页设计师。

I wasn't the best web designer.

我不是最棒的写手。

I'm not the best writer.

我不是最棒的平面设计师，但我在这所有领域都达到了普通到中上水平，这些能力最终融合成了我如今所做的事情，以及我表达事物的方式——这某种程度上是一种无意识的熟练：从我刚开始发推文时，这就是一个例子，我会非常关注自己文字的排版设计。

I wasn't the best graphic designer, but I got, like, average to above average at all of those things, and it all combined into what I do now and how I'm able to articulate things because this is somewhat unconscious competence where since the beginning when I was writing tweets, this is just one example, where I would pay very close attention to the design of my writing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如，它看起来怎么样，是的。

Like, how it looked Yeah.

在手机屏幕上。

On the mobile screen.

如果文字看起来美观，而不是一堆大段文字，如果文字是倾斜的，如果列表的排列方式看起来很酷，能引导读者往下阅读。

And if it was, like, aesthetic to read, and if it wasn't just, like, blocks of text, if the text was, like, slanted, if the list was aligned in a way that looked cool or guided the readers down the page.

所以像这类细节，我非常注重文字的视觉呈现，而不仅仅是文字本身。

So certain things like that and really paying attention to the visual representation of the writing and not just the writing itself.

头像也是同样的道理。

Same thing goes with, like, profile picture.

我之所以侧着脸，是有意为之，因为我当初学网页设计时读过一项研究，发现如果图片中的人在看文字，读者更有可能去阅读那些文字；当时还做过热力图实验，屏幕上有个婴儿在看摄像头，人们就会看婴儿；

Like, there's intention behind the fact that I'm looking to the side is because I read this study when I was studying web design that people are more likely to read the, like, writing if the image is looking at it, where they did, a heat sensor as well where there's a baby on the screen and it's looking at the camera, and then people are looking at the baby.

但如果婴儿在看另一边的文字，人们就会去看那些文字。

But if the baby is looking at the text to the other side, then people look at the text.

所以我想，好吧，我希望我的推文获得更多互动。

So it's like, okay, I want more engagement on my tweets.

于是我让自己的脸朝向推文，这样人们就不会只盯着我的头像了，这可能带来了一些边际上的互动提升。

I'm gonna look at my tweets so people aren't staring at my profile picture, and that could have led to, like, marginal engagement.

所以有很多不同的因素，我认为关键在于好奇心、细致入微的态度，以及想要面面俱到的意愿。

So there's a lot of different things, and I would think that's the factor is, like, the curiosity, the thoughtfulness, wanting to cover my bases.

比如在通讯稿里，我觉得每次都要写一本书，因为背后涉及的内容太多了，如果只写500字的简短通讯，我会觉得自己在欺骗读者。

Like, in newsletter, I feel like I have to write a book for every single one because, like, there's so much that goes into it where it's like I feel like I'm cheating people if I only give 500 words in a small newsletter.

毕竟任何一个话题都蕴含着更多内容。

Like, it just there's so much more to any given topic.

我知道有句名言说，如果你不能把一个话题讲得简单，那就说明你还没真正理解它，之类的话。

And I know there's a whole quote, like, you don't understand a topic well if you can't make it simple or something like that.

是的。

Yeah.

我完全不这么认为。

I don't believe that at all.

比如，有些东西本来就很简洁。

Like, there are simple things.

我昨天就在想这件事。

Like, I could I was thinking about this yesterday.

我忘了当时脑子里想的具体例子，但确实有很多事情不可能只用一句话或一篇500字的通讯就讲清楚。

I forget the example I had in my head, but there are a lot of things that are not as simple as just, like, a one sentence or a 500 word newsletter.

因为如果你在给别人提供如何达成特定结果的建议，你就必须考虑到让你获得这个结果的整个生活历程，否则你给出的只是一份无法真正帮到他们的处方。

Because like if you're writing advice for someone on how to get a specific result, you kind of sort of have to account for the entirety of your life that led to you getting that result, or else you're giving people, like, a prescription that isn't going to help them as much as they can.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以你越深入剖析是什么让你走到这一步，你就越能赋予人们真正的力量去做出决定，而不是仅仅提供步骤一、步骤二、步骤三、步骤四，告诉你该怎么做。

So the more that you dissect, like, what led you to that point, the more firepower you give people to actually make that decision rather than just like step one, step two, step three, step four, here's how you do it.

这在很多情况下也有帮助，因为它能让人们获得清晰的方向，去尝试并失败，但同时，我认为最有帮助的其实是那些人们不喜欢读的‘废话’，因为这些内容的存在是有原因的，作者写它们也是有原因的。人们常说，删掉这些废话吧，我只想看可操作的建议。

That's also helpful in many cases because it allows people to have clarity and go in and fail at whatever they're doing, but at the same time, I do think the most helpful thing is the fluff of the book that people don't like to read because there's a reason it's there and there's a reason that the author wrote it where people say, like, just get rid of the fluff, I just want the actionable advice.

是的。

Yep.

我恰恰觉得相反：给我这些‘废话’吧，我会自己去看那些可操作的建议，但我知道，真正能改变我结果的并不是这些。

I see it the opposite where it's like, give me the fluff, I'll read the actionable advice but I know that's not the thing that's actually going to change my the results that

我明白了。

I get.

是的。

Yeah.

这归结为在你的观点和你所谈论的事情上给予和获得更多的细微差别。

It comes down to giving and getting more nuance with your perspective and things you talked about.

还有那个该死的头像，老兄，Twitter 上每一个账号都复制了那个头像。

And that damn profile picture, dude, every single every single account on Twitter has copied that profile picture.

我见过。

I've seen.

我肯定你见过，因为我的时间线上也到处都是。

I'm I'm sure you have because it's all over my timeline as well.

但话说回来，我一直在 Tweet Hunter 上，浏览过你的过往推文，也看过其他人的过往推文。

But with that said, I've, like, I've been on Tweet Hunter, and I've looked through your past tweets, and then I've looked through other people's past tweets.

然后我看到，哦，我看到了丹·科弗的那一条。

And then I've seen, oh, I saw that one from Dan Cofer's.

这是一字不差的吗？

And that is like word for word?

是的。

Yes.

我可以告诉你是谁。

And I could tell you who.

这是一个相当大的账号。

It's a it's a pretty big account.

但是

But

现在别说了。

Don't say it now.

我现在不会说。

I won't say it now.

我现在不会说的。

I'm I'm not gonna say it now.

但这种模仿游戏在Twitter上非常普遍。

But this imitation game is something that is quite prevalent on Twitter.

在所有人中，似乎你就是被大家模仿的对象，而你对此翻白眼。

And out of all people, it seems like you're the guy that everyone's imitating, and you roll your eyes at that.

这让你感到沮丧吗？

Does it frustrate you?

其实不会，因为这可能是另一种超能力，它恰恰如此。

Not really because that could be another superpower where it comes Exactly.

回到你说的，你懂我的意思吧？

Back to You know what I mean?

所以他们其实是在害自己。

So they're doing themselves a disservice.

但另一点是，我以前真的对这个特别生气。

But that's the other thing is, like, I used to get really pissed off at it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

还有一点是，我能对此做些什么呢？

And the one thing that's also an edge where it's like, what can I do about it?

所以唯一的其他选择就是，更有创意一些。

So the only other option is, like, get more creative.

这稍微抽象一点，但就是说，好吧。

And that's a bit more abstract, but it's like, okay.

比如，别人能写出这些东西并取得成果，并不意味着我哪里做错了。

Like, it's not if other people can write this and get results, then I'm doing something wrong.

我只是还没达到我想达到的水平。

I'm not at the level that I want to be at.

我该怎么做才能达到下一个层次，最终让别人根本无法复制我？我觉得这永远不可能发生。

What can I do to get to that next level and eventually make it so that it would be impossible for them to copy me, which I don't think will ever become a thing?

是的。

Yeah.

但至少，朝着这个目标努力，能让我找到一条真正与他人区分开来的路。

But me working towards that at least gives me that path to really just separate myself

嗯。

Mhmm.

在所写的内容上进一步拉开差距。

Further in terms of the things that I write about.

我觉得最接近这一点的人可能是纳瓦尔。

I feel like the person that comes to mind that's the closest to that is maybe Naval.

因为他写的东西，有一种非常纳瓦尔风格的对。

Just because the things he write, it has such a Naval esque Yeah.

精准到点。

Down to the point precise.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你熟悉纳瓦尔，并且非常了解他的内容，你就能分辨出来——虽然不是每次都能，但有时候你会觉得，这听起来就像纳瓦尔会说的话。

And I feel like if you're familiar with Naval and you know Naval's content really well, you could kind of pierce out, maybe not all the time, but sometimes you could be like, I that sounds like something Naval would say.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

所以他有

So He has

一种非常特定的术语，或者他解释事物的方式。

a very specific lingo or, like, how he explains things.

是的。

Yeah.

很好。

It's good.

当你思考下一个层次时，你是否在努力培养这种特质？

Is that something that you're trying to cultivate when you think about that next level?

是不是像

Is that, like

是的。

Yeah.

因为我觉得模仿是这个游戏的一部分。

It's because, like, I I feel like imitation is a part of the game.

比如，你必须在某种程度上这么做。

Like, you you have to, to an extent.

你得从某个地方获取想法。

You have to get ideas somewhere.

我之所以现在说这些话，是因为我从别人那里学来的。

Like, there's a reason I'm speaking the words I speak right now is because I learned them from someone else.

对吧？

Right?

抛开模仿不说，我真的很钦佩纳瓦尔的写作和他表达思想的方式。

So copying aside, like, I truly admire Naval in his writing and the way he articulates ideas.

我读过《纳瓦尔·拉维坎特宝典》，里面有一些健康建议我不认同，但他的其他内容非常好。

I read the almanac of Naval Ravikant and there's some like health advice that I disagree with, but his other stuff is very good.

还有谁？

Who else?

我看到你邀请过扎克。

I saw that you had Zach on.

我非常喜欢扎克表达思想的方式。

I really like the way Zach articulates his ideas.

或者米哈里，契克森特米哈伊。

Or Mihai, Csikszentmihai.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

这些内容对我来说都特别有共鸣，但别人却不一定有同样的感受。

Like, all of this stuff just hits for me, and it doesn't for other people.

我觉得这表明我需要把这些东西融入自己的体系中。

And I see that as a sign where I kind of need to integrate that.

Actualized.org。

Actualized.org.

乔丹·彼得森，当他不谈宗教和性别这些话题时

Jordan Peterson, when he's off of his, like, religion Gender

东西。

stuff.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

或者也包括性别方面的内容。

Or gender stuff too.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

但没错。

But yeah.

所以，对我来说，要保持创造力，就必须从许多不同的资源中汲取养分，这样才能产生某种新颖而独特的东西。

And so it's like pulling that that's my thing is, like, for me to be creative, I have to pull from so many different resources so that something new can emerge, which is, like, unique and original in a sense.

这就像是创新。

It's like novelty.

这是一种创新。

It's novelty.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

这是一个有趣的想法。

It's an interesting idea.

我认为人们有一种观点，认为原创想法就像灯泡亮起的瞬间，突然间就冒出了一些想法。

I think that people have this view that original ideas are just like a light bulb moment where it's like a Oh, blah blah blah.

就像一个人在房间里来回踱步，冥思苦想。

Like, philosophized in their room walking back and forth.

是的。

Yeah.

但很多时候，原创是将来自两个不同来源的想法联系起来，比如把乔丹·彼得森说的和纳瓦尔说的结合起来，然后通过你的作品在它们之间建立联系。

But so often, it's connecting two ideas together from two different sources or taking that thing that Jordan Peterson said and taking that thing that Naval said and then creating a line between them through your work.

是的。

Yeah.

我以为这就是你打这个比方时想表达的意思。

And I thought this is what you meant when you made the analogy.

我觉得我搞错了，当时你最初说的时候，是我自己的理解出了问题。

I think I I messed this up where it was my perspective when you originally said it.

我以为你说的是，创作内容就像当一个DJ，你从不同的人那里取来许多不同的歌曲或想法，然后把它们混搭成一首全新的美妙歌曲。

What I thought you said was creating content is like being a DJ where you are taking a bunch of different songs or ideas from different people and then mashing it together into this new beautiful song.

是的。

Yeah.

但你对这件事有不同的看法。

But you had a different perspective on it.

对吧？

Right?

所以你的观点是，当你最喜欢的音乐人开始偏离常规路径时，你往往会开始不喜欢他们？

So your perspective on it was you want to your favorite musicians, musicians, you start to, a lot of times, dislike them when they start to deviate from the normal path of things?

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

两者都是。

It's both.

两者都是。

It's both.

两者都是。

It's both.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢，因为它们确实是。

I like well, because they are.

就像，DJ是用想法创作的创作者。

Like, DJs are or creators are DJs but with ideas.

我喜欢这个概念。

I love that concept.

那很不错。

It was good.

因为很多人根本不知道该做什么、该聊什么， blah blah blah，而这一点提供了极大的清晰度：我喜欢 x、y 和 z。

Because it's it because so many people have an unknowing of what, like, to do, what to talk about, blah blah blah, and that just provides so much clarity of, I like x, y, and z.

让我研究一下他们，然后把这些整合起来。

Let me study them and put it together.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，你可以进一步延伸到变现方面，比如，他们通常从 Spotify 播放或发布的内容中赚不了太多钱。

And, like, you can take that even further where it's like, in terms of monetization, like, they usually don't make too much money from, like, their Spotify streams or content they put out.

对吧？

Right?

那就是他们的内容。

That's their content.

但当他们举办演出或巡演，或者参加研讨会、发表演讲，或者开设一个学员群体时，

But then when they go and they have a show or a tour or let's say they have, like they go to a seminar or they're speaking on something or they have, like, a cohort Mhmm.

或者类似的情况，吸引人们参与其中，

Or something of that case where they're attracting people to it.

这就是他们盈利的方式，他们仍然在表达类似的内容，只是以更好的方式，针对特定受众和目标进行了调整。

That's how they monetize, and they're still kind of saying the same thing just in a better way catered to the audience there for a specific end result.

在音乐会上，主要是为了娱乐，有些人会表演DJ混音。

At a concert, it's, like, to have fun, and some people play, like, DJ sets.

他们会播放派对混音，或者其他任何类型的曲目。

They play, like, party sets, whatever it may be.

他们销售周边商品。

They sell merch.

但就这个核心理念而言，作为创作者，你是在收集这些灵感，然后以创作歌曲的方式将它们整合起来。

But in terms of that main idea, it it is like, as a creator, you are gathering this inspiration, and then you are writing or piecing it together in the way of, like, a song Mhmm.

或者打造一个精心包装的成果，让人们喜欢阅读、聆听，等等。

Or a a good packaged up outcome that people like to read, listen to, whatever it may be.

这让我想起了霍尔莫齐说的话，他说：免费提供知识，出售实施方案。

It kinda reminds me of what Hormozi says, where he says, give away the knowledge and sell the implementation.

是的。

Yeah.

因为那些把所有秘诀都分享出来的创作者，总是最受粉丝喜爱的。

Because, I mean, those creators that gave out all the secrets are always the the fan favorites.

是的。

Yeah.

比如我最近做了一期播客，我就不点名了，但那位嘉宾在推销某个东西。

Like, I I did a recent podcast, and I won't specify who, but they were selling something.

他们却不谈那个产品里面的具体内容，因为那正是他们要卖的东西，诸如此类。

And they wouldn't talk about the content within the thing because that's what they're selling, blah blah blah.

但真正能打动人心、脱颖而出的，是那些毫无保留地分享一切的人，他们几乎有一种服务者的心态。

But the people who transcend or really hit for people are the ones that just give away everything, and they have almost like this servant mentality.

对。

Yep.

你有没有想过这一点？

Have you thought about that?

很多次。

A lot.

比如，很多人问我，比如说，好吧。

Like, for a lot of people ask me, like, okay.

我该卖什么，该谈什么，这两者之间的区别是什么？

Like, what do I sell, and what do I talk about, and what's the distinction between that?

其实并没有什么区别。

And there really isn't any.

我觉得，一旦你理解了产品设计，或者一个优秀的产品或服务包含什么，就会明白这一点了——通常包括用户期望的结果、他们面临的问题，而你的产品就是通往解决方案的路径。

Like, the I feel like it starts to make sense once you understand offer creation or what a good product or service consists of, which is usually desired outcome, problem that the person's facing, and then your product is the path to get there.

而你的内容要比这丰富得多，而且通常更偏向入门级别。

And your content is so much more diverse than that, and it's usually so much more beginner level.

课程里的内容在社交媒体上可能并不会表现得很好。

And what's in what's in the course is probably not gonna perform that well on social media.

就像，由于社交媒体的特性，你通常不会在社交媒体上直接发布付费课程内容，因为这类内容很难被看到，人们也不太关心——而人们往往更在意自己花钱买的东西。当我为一门课程付费时，我对其中的信息才最上心，也更愿意认真学完。

Like, just by the nature of social media, you're usually not gonna put, like, a paid course on social media in terms of content because it isn't gonna get seen that much, and people aren't gonna care about it, where people care for what they pay for, and, like, I cared the most about the information I was learning when I paid for a course on it and I wanted to go through it.

如果有免费课程，我相信网上有成千上万，甚至更多免费课程，但它们根本得不到关注，就是因为人们没有用金钱这种形式投入意愿和精力去获取它们。

Like, if there was a free course, I'm sure there's thousands, probably more than thousands, of free courses online that just do not get any love simply because people aren't putting the intention and energy into it with the form of money to receive it.

在购买课程这件事上，背后涉及很多心理学因素。

There's a lot of psychology that goes on when it in terms of, like, buying a course.

但与此同时，你也要想想，人们为什么会上社交媒体，比如YouTube、Twitter或Instagram。

Now, at the same time, you have to think of why people go on social media, like on YouTube or Twitter or Instagram.

这其实取决于具体是哪个平台。

It really depends on which one.

但比如说Twitter和Instagram，你上去并不是真的为了学习。

But let's say, like, Twitter and Instagram, you're not really going on to learn.

有些人可能会说，好吧。

Some people may be like, okay.

我希望今天能学到点什么。

I'm I hope I learned something today.

但通常他们只是打开手机。

But usually, they're just opening their phone.

他们上Instagram刷视频，创作者必须迎合这一点，因为这就是这些应用的用途。

They're going on to Instagram, and they're scrolling, and creators have to cater to that because that's what the app is for.

嗯。

Mhmm.

它是为了某种形式的娱乐，或者说是寓教于乐。

It's for some form of entertainment or, like, edutainment.

所以我提供的是人们喜欢看的尖锐真相。

So I'm providing harsh truths that people like to see.

我会提供一些独特的商业见解之类的内容，但如果我只是直接发布一个课程，却没有办法吸引他们关注，那根本行不通。

I provide some unique business insight or something like that, but me just like putting out a course without any way of like roping them into that or something of that nature, it just isn't gonna work out.

在YouTube上你可以这么做，但同时你也得成长。

On YouTube, you can do that, but at the same time, you have to grow.

你必须迎合人们使用这个应用的原因。

You have to cater to why people are getting on the app.

你必须引导他们逐步提升认知水平。

You have to lead them through the levels of awareness.

一旦你学习了营销和销售——很多人似乎对这些很抵触，但它们能教会你如何区分什么该做成产品、什么该做成免费内容。

Once you study marketing and sales, which a lot of people seem allergic to, doesn't make sense, like that's going to teach you, like, how to differentiate the two of, like, what deserves to be a product and what deserves to be free content.

流量和实际产品之间的区别，是的。

Difference between traffic and the actual product Mhmm.

以及如何生成流量并将其引导至产品。

And how you generate one and send it to the other.

我喜欢这个区分。

I love that distinction.

还有你刚才简单提到的，很多免费课程得不到足够关注，就是因为它们是免费的。

And even what you briefly said about a lot of free courses not getting enough love because they're free.

是的。

Yeah.

我最近一直在思考这个问题，因为如果你要把《原子习惯》作为例子——它是个很简单的类比。

And I I actually have been thinking a lot about this because if you were to turn let's take Atomic Habits because it's such a simple analogy.

如果你把《原子习惯》做成一门课程，售价可能是1000美元。

If you were to take Atomic Habits and turn it into a course and it would and it would sell for, let's say, a thousand dollars.

是的。

Yeah.

但里面的内容其实都是《原子习惯》的同一套知识。

But it was all the same knowledge of atomic habits.

人们上完这门课后，效果会好上十倍甚至百倍，因为课程的感知价值更高，或者他们付了钱之后，心里会想：‘天啊，我得认真学了。’

People would have 10 x, a 100 x better results from the course because of the perceived value of it or they have, like, the sunken cost of, like, oh, shit.

现在我必须认真钻研这门课，而那本十几美元的书，他们却可以敷衍了事。

Now I have to really study this thing versus the book, which is $10, $15.

他们就觉得可以随便看看就行。

And they're like, they can just coast by.

对。

Yeah.

价格标签往往能反映出你从中学到多少东西，这非常有趣。

It's very interesting how the price tag set alongside things indicates a lot of times how much you will learn from it.

是的。

Yeah.

很多人都这么做。

That's what a lot of people do.

比如，我有一些具体的名字，但我们就拿一个教练项目来说吧，嗯。

Like, I kind of have specific names, but, like, let's take a coaching program Mhmm.

那可是上万美元，一位非常知名的教练。

That's, like, $10,000, like, a very esteemed coach.

他们的品牌塑造得非常好。

Like, they have the branding down.

他们方方面面都做得很好。

They have everything down.

这跟钱没关系。

And it's not money related.

这跟表现有关。

It's performance related.