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今天节目开始前，先说两件事。
Two notes before we start the show today.
第一，提醒一下大家，我们有一份2025年的听众调查问卷。
The first is a reminder that we have a listener survey for 2025.
我们很喜欢听到大家的声音。
We love hearing from all of you.
我们很喜欢看大家的回复，而且这些信息对我们真的很有用，比如以后有广告商什么的，所以真的很感谢大家。
We love reading your responses, and we actually really benefit from that information if we ever have advertisers anything like that, so we do appreciate it.
你还有机会赢一块跳线板。
You can also win a jumper list board.
我们会抽三个名字，然后从之前的嘉宾凯文·卡普乔那里寄给你。
We are drawing three names, and we will ship that to you from past guest Kevin Capucho.
谢谢他。
Thank you to him.
第二件事，嗯，我们不是最及时的编辑，主要是我，这段是播出前十天左右录的。
Second is, well, we're not the most timely editors here, mostly me, and this was recorded about ten days before airing.
所以最近变化很多，有些信息也在不断更新。
So there's some changing information as things have been changing a lot lately.
所以听的时候请记住这一点。
So just keep that in mind as you're listening.
这里是《安培小时》播客。
This is the amp hour podcast.
发布于2025年5月21日。
Released 05/21/2025.
第694集。
Episode six ninety four.
电压、氛围和挥发性有机化合物。
Voltage, Vibes, and VOCs.
欢迎收听《安培小时》。
Welcome to the Ampower.
我是来自EEV博客的戴夫·琼斯。
I'm Dave Jones from the EEV blog.
我是Chris Gamble，来自Contextual Electronics。
And I'm Chris Gamble, Contextual Electronics.
我刚从墨尔本回来。
I'm freshly back from Melbourne.
我出去了一趟
I ventured out
离开我的实验室。
of my lab.
对。
Yes.
外面的世界怎么样？
How how is the the wider world?
它还在那儿吗？
Is it is it still out there?
它是不是
Is it
外面还在。
It's still out there.
我确实在墨尔本的街头活了下来。
I I did actually survive the streets of I survived the streets of Melbourne.
非常，你
Very, you
知道，好吧。
know Alright.
非常令人惊讶。
Very surprising.
就像去
It's like going
那些漂亮的涂鸦呢？
All that wonderful graffiti?
是的。
Yes.
墨尔本的小巷特别多。
Melbourne is like the most laneways.
对。
Yeah.
很悠闲，那真是个悠闲的城市。
Chill it's such a chill city.
我猜你说的是当地的一些东西，但我确实在那里玩得很
I'm sure you're talking about some kind of local thing, but I I had a very
开心。
good time there.
是的。
Yeah.
我们现在那里有点犯罪问题，正在。
We've got, like, a crime thing there at the moment that's going
发生。
on.
对。
Yeah.
这事都上新闻了。
It's making all the news.
所以，你
So, you
知道戴夫，我住在美国。
know Dave Dave, I live in The US.
哦，这样。
Oh, right.
是的。
Yes.
我知道。
I know.
好。
Okay.
我来自芝加哥南环那片治安不太好的街区。
I'm from the mean streets of the South Loop Of Chicago.
你能活下来真是个奇迹。
It's a wonder you survived it all.
我知道。
I know.
是的。
Yep.
嗯，我
Well, I
也没怎么出门。
didn't go outside either.
所以，我的意思是，就这样吧。
So, I mean, as it as it was.
那挺好的。
Well, that's great.
演出怎么样？
How was the how was the show?
我看到我们的两期嘉宾斯科特·威廉姆斯发了帖子。
I saw our our two time guest, Scott Williams, posting.
是的。
Yes.
斯科特·威廉姆斯。
Scott Williams.
对。
Yes.
我和他聊了聊，他说他和别人花了两年多时间开发了一个产品。
I've I did a a talk with him about he say he goes through a product that he developed with someone over two years.
我们就聊了这个。
So we talk about that.
那会单独做一个视频。
That'll be a separate video.
他提到他的团队现在在用你的软件。
And he he mentioned that he's using your his team is using your software now.
没错。
That's right.
对。
Yeah.
他是Goliath的合作伙伴。
He's a Goliath partner.
是的。
Yes.
他是Goliath的合作伙伴。
He's a Goliath partner.
就是这样。
There you go.
对。
Yeah.
是吗？对。
Is he Yeah.
他是不是在你们网站上到处都是？
Actually plastered all over your website or something, is he?
他是Goliath的合作伙伴吗？
Is he as a Goliath partner?
也不是到处都是，但确实，他在上面。
I mean, not all all over, but, yeah, he's he's on there.
哦，他在上面。
Oh, he's on there.
好的。
Okay.
不错。
Cool.
主要是我每个季度都能跟他聊聊。
Mostly, I just get to talk to him every quarter.
这就是好处所在。
That's the that's the nice thing.
他就像是，你知道的，找个借口去那边聊聊天。
He's like, you know, excuses to, you know, get there and chat.
挺好的。
That's nice.
对。
Yep.
是的。
Yeah.
因为我和他聊过这个，他说，对，对于那些不知道的人，你们可以看他在M上的那期节目。
Because I was talking to him about that, and he said, yeah, like, for those who don't know, we'll know, you can watch his episode on the m.
他其实上过两次。
He's been on twice, actually.
他在MPR上过两次。
He's been on the m p r twice.
对。
Yeah.
那就是我。
That's me.
是的。
Yes.
他基本上经营着一家设计咨询公司，现在规模已经相当大了。
And he he basically runs a design consultancy business, which is getting, you know, quite sizable now.
他大概有十个员工左右。
He's got like 10 employees or something.
对吧？
Right?
所以是一家设计服务公司。
So a design services company.
而且，当你是这样的设计公司时，他做的是那种交钥匙工程，对。
And and the choice is when when when you're a design house like that, and he's and he does like turnkey Yeah.
还有交钥匙方案。
Solutions as well.
可能有人不知道交钥匙是什么意思，简单来说，就是从概念到生产，甚至到营销，整个项目你全包了，全程帮忙。
For those who don't know what turnkey is, it means basically, you do the whole job from start from the concept through to production and even marketing, you know, like you help out the whole way.
所以，比如有客户来找你，说有个放屁玩具的新奇点子，觉得能赚大钱。
So you know, some customer comes to you, I've got this idea for this farty novelty widget thing.
你就说，太好了。
It's gonna make a billion dollars and you go, great.
我们可以帮你设计，然后你花一两年时间陪他们，全程手把手指导，设计所有东西，整个流程都包了。
We can design that for you and you spend, you know, a year or two with them, and you you know, handhold their way all the way through and you design everything, you know, you do the whole.
我觉得
I think
另一种选择就是只做服务。
the alternative there is the services only.
对吧？
Right?
所以就像有些其他部分，比如服务合作伙伴，他们会说，哦，你只需要固件。
So like there's some other part like service partners who are like, oh, you need just firmware.
我们会进来
We'll come in and
帮你做固件。
do your firmware too.
对吧？
Right?
PCB布局。
PCB layout.
你只需要三维的，你知道，外壳，对吧。
You need just three d, you know, housing Right.
CAD类的东西。
CAD type stuff.
你明白吗？
You know?
我觉得这
I feel like it
也得看你在跟哪种客户打交道。
depends on which type of customer you're talking to as well.
如果你是在跟一个需要电子技术的机械团队聊，那就像，对，
If you're talking like a mechanical group who needs electronics, it's like, oh, yeah.
我们电子这块全包了。
We're gonna do everything on electronics side.
但如果你是在跟一个电子团队聊，他们可能只是人手不够，忙不过来PCB之类的，那你就会说，行，
But if you're, like, talking to an electronics group and they're just, like, short staffed on PCBs or whatever, you're like, okay.
我们就把
We're gonna just get
那部分活儿
that work.
PCB的活儿接过来。
PCBs.
如果你是大公司，是的，你可能只是暂时人手不足，需要有人帮忙画板子，或者做一些设计检查之类的，你懂的。
If if you're a large company, yeah, you just may be short staffed at the moment and you need someone to lay out some boards or do some do some design checking or something like that, you know,
或者，你
or, you
知道的，仿真之类的。
know, simulation or anything like that.
所以，是的，交钥匙工程就是指做全部的工作。
So, yeah, turnkey just means doing the whole lot.
对。
So Yeah.
那是在哪里？
Where was that?
很多服务提供商在电子行业都是这样的吧？
A lot of service providers like that at at Electronics?
他们确实是的。
They were quite yes.
大概有四个吧，我觉得至少，我看到挺多的，在那么小的展会上算是很多了。
Quite a Probably four, I think, at least, that I saw that there were quite a lot, which at a small show like that is a lot.
我正想说呢，我本来以为数字会大得多，但你说得对。
I was gonna say, I thought I thought that was gonna be a much bigger number, but yes, you're right.
从钢铁的角度看，我看到
Steel wise, I see
那个。
that.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
也不是没有。
It's no.
但对一个只有一间房的小展会来说，这已经很多了，你知道，那里大概有30到50个参展商之类的。
But that's a lot for a small one room show, you know, where there's, you know, 30, like 50 exhibitors or something, you know.
对。
Yeah.
所以我们希望其中有四五个或六七个是设计咨询类的。
So we like like to have like, you know, four or five or half a dozen of those being design consultancy.
实际上，可能还不止这些，但你知道，这取决于你所说的设计领域是什么。
Actually, those probably more than that, but, know, it it depends on what you're talking about in the design space.
我跟另一个展位的人聊过，他们专门做太空设计。
I talked to another stand that just they do specialized in space Oh, space design.
他们为那些火箭设计了飞行控制器电脑，这些太空火箭飞到大约400公里的高度，然后以终端速度返回地面。
So they they they designed the flight controller computer for these rockets that, you know, these space rockets went up to 400 kilometers or something and came back down at terminal velocity.
而且不知道为什么，我记不清了。
And for some reason, I don't know, I can't remember.
但是，
But,
对。
they Yeah.
那叫导弹。
That's called a missile.
在设计那些东西的时候。
In the design of those.
那叫导弹。
It's called a missile.
对。
Yeah.
嗯，那是个研究火箭之类的，你懂的，研究用的东西。
Well, it was a research rocket or something, you know, research stuff.
所以他们做这个已经做了三十年了。
So they're they've been doing that for thirty years.
他们算是专攻这个的，但从他们的名字或者他们做的其他东西来看，你根本看不出来。
They kinda, like, specialize in that, but you wouldn't know it from their name or from their other stuff.
就是那种，你去了那儿，跟他聊起来，然后就这样。
It was just, you know, you go there and start talking to him and yeah.
看看我们这儿柜子里放的这东西。
Look at this thing we have in our cabinet here.
这是一个飞行控制计算机，来自那种火箭，飞上去又掉下来，以终端速度落地还完好无损。
This is a flight control computer from a, you know, this term rocket that went up and came back at terminal velocity and survived.
那挺酷的。
That's cool.
你知道吗？
You know?
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
所以有很多
So there's lots of
像这样的专业服务提供商也很有意思，因为你会想，你是去电子展还是电子展？
specialists interesting too with, like, service providers like that too because it's like, do you go to an electronical show or electronic show?
就像你刚才说的那样。
Like like you're talking about.
它更专注于那些在电子行业工作的人。
It's, like, focused on the people that are working in electronics.
或者，如果你是像斯科特那样的人，或者类似的交钥匙服务提供商，你会去客户可能在的地方，比如去医疗博览会。
Or, you know, if you're someone like Scott or similar, like, turnkey service provider, do you go to where your customers might be at, like, I'm just going to like a medical expo.
然后你就像那个
And then you're like the
电子行业的人，是的。
electronics person Yes.
比如说，嘿。
Like, hey.
你是个医生，想开发个东西。
You're a doctor looking to develop a thing.
这些我们都能帮你搞定。
We can do all of that for you.
这些我们都能做。
We can do all those things.
对。
Yes.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
对。
Yep.
然后你就能覆盖所有类型的展会，不管你的领域是什么。
And And then you hit every type of show, whatever your your vertical is.
你真是个展会达人。
You're a show whore.
对。
Yes.
你就是到处跑，每个展会都去，没错。
You just go around and go to every single Yes.
每个展会都去，然后推销你的服务。
Every single show and, spook your, services.
对。
Yeah.
因为你不知道机会会从哪里来。
Because you don't know where it's gonna come from.
你懂吧？
You know?
所以，你知道，像农业展、农博会这样的，农民们需要针对各种问题的定制解决方案。
So, you know, a farm show, like a farm expo, farmers need custom solutions for stuff.
哦，
Oh,
天哪。
man.
农民。
Farmers.
所以，就像
So, like
农民是很难搞的客户。
Farmers are rough clients.
我不知道
I don't know
你知不知道这一点。
if you know this.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
他们确实让我很意外。
They are surprise me.
他们非常在意成本。
They are very cost constrained.
他们有，对。
They have Yep.
环境方面的问题特别难搞。
Ridiculously difficult, like, environmental stuff.
对吧？
Right?
比如阳光、雨水这些，然后他们对任何不好用的东西都毫不留情。
Like, just sun, rain, and all And that then they just they are unforgiving on anything that doesn't work.
对吧？
Right?
我是说，它们本来就该这样。
Mean, as they should be.
对吧？
Right?
但是，嗯，是的。
But, like Yeah.
当然。
Of course.
它们就是那么实用，而且，
They're just so practical and,
对，是的。
like Yes.
它们就是那种，每次都必须管用的东西。
They're so, like, this needs to work every single time.
如果有任何停机时间，我会把它拆掉，然后换成我需要的任何东西。
If there's any downtime, I will rip it out, and I will replace it with whatever I need to.
对。
And Yep.
立刻。
Immediately.
你知道吗？
You know?
就像，哇。
It's like, wow.
好。
Okay.
我明白了。
I get it.
行。
Alright.
那个你也不想花太多钱。
You don't wanna pay much for that either.
这样
Is
可以吗？
that okay?
不行。
Nope.
哎呀，天哪。
Oh, boy.
对。
Yeah.
但我告诉你，真正让电子展相形见绌的是隔壁的澳大利亚制造周，我今天早上刚发布了一个相关视频。
But I'll tell you what dwarfed the electronics show, the one next door, the Australian Manufacturing Week, which I just released a video this morning.
对。
Yeah.
因为我还没发关于电子展的视频。
Because I haven't released a video on the electronic show.
我去那儿就是为了电子展，你知道，我每年都去的。
I want there or went there just for the electronics show, which, know, I go to every year.
然后隔壁就是澳大利亚制造周。
And no, next door was Australian manufacturing week.
我当时就站在前面，我到了那个大的展览中心，墨尔本展览中心，你知道吧。
And like I was standing out the front, like I like I got there to the big exhibition Melbourne exhibition, you know, Center Building.
那地方特别大。
It's huge.
对吧？
Right?
我正好在开门的时候到的，你知道，在外面架好相机，准备拍我走进去的镜头之类的。
And I got there right at opening time, you know, setting up my camera outside so I could do my talking headshot walking in and stuff like that.
然后有成千上万的人往里走，我就想，这到底是怎么回事？
And there's like a thousand thousands of people walking in and I'm going, what the hell is going on here?
这些人不可能都是来看电子展的吧。
Like, these can't all be gone to electronics.
果然，我一进去，里面人山人海。
And and sure enough, I when I go inside, it's absolutely packed.
这个巨大的会展中心里，你根本动不了，外面也是。
You couldn't move in this giant convention center, like outside.
这还只是进场的走廊。
This is just in the corridor to get in.
然后还有一条几百米长的队伍，排着队等着进澳大利亚制造周。
And there's and then there's a line hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people deep trying to get into this Australian manufacturing week.
我问了问周围的人，他们说，哦，是的。
And I asked around, and people have said, oh, yeah.
每天都是这么挤。
It's like it's packed every day.
排队拿通行证进场要四十分钟。
It's forty minutes to line up to get your pass to get in.
哇。
Wow.
真是疯了。
It's like, it's nuts.
我的天哪。
Oh my god.
人满为患。
It was packed.
总之，这个澳大利亚制造周，无论是场地面积、展位数量还是其他方面，都比旁边那个可怜的小电子展要大得多。
Anyway, there was an this thing, Australian Manufacturing Week, order of magnitude bigger in terms of space and number of stands and everything else than the poor little electronics show next door.
对吧？
Right?
所以，是的。
So Yeah.
我到了
I got
也包括制造业吗？
the manufacturing of it too?
因为，我的意思是，它不像电子制造业。
Because, I mean, it's not like electronics manufacturing.
对吧？
Right?
它不像什么？
It's it's not like what?
是电子制造业吗？
Is it electronics manufacturing?
是机械类的吗？
Is it mechanical?
还是别的
Is it something
什么？
else?
制造，制造，主要是机械制造。
Manufacturing manufacturing as in mostly mechanical manufacturing.
所以有激光切割机、金属板折弯机，还有那种巨型的设备。
So there's laser cutters, there's sheet metal benders, there's and and giant scale.
我是说，你知道的，那种超大型的，比如自动焊接机，还有各种东西。
Like, I'm talking, you know, huge giant scale, you know, welding automated welding machines and, you know, all sorts of things.
你知道，就是那种巨大的机器，能切割10米乘10米、100毫米厚的钢板，就是那种大块金属板。
You know, is it big giant machines that that can cut 10 meters by 10 meter, you know, 100 millimeter steel thick, you know, bloody like, slabs of of metal.
真是了不起的东西。
Just incredible stuff.
总之，就是喜欢
Anyway, it's so love
像这样的展览。
shows like this.
这就像那个，你知道的。
This is like the one know.
我去过IMTS。
I went to IMTS.
这是芝加哥的一个小展会，每
This is the little show in Chicago every
对。
Yeah.
两年或四年一次。
Two years, four years.
对。
Yeah.
就像这样，他们把芝加哥会展中心塞满了三层楼高的，是的。
It's like this where they they just fill up the the Chicago Expo Center with just, like, three story tall Yes.
加工中心。
Machining centers.
就像，
It's just, like
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
难以置信。
Unbelievable.
那是机器人。
It's robot.
真的，信不信由你。
Believe it.
我都不好意思说。
It I and I hate to say it.
这比电子展还让人兴奋，电子展每年都一样。
It was more exciting than the electronic show, which is the same every year.
当然是这样。
Of course, it is.
参展商都是一样的。
It's the same exhibitors.
就像，你知道的。
It's like, you know.
不。
No.
我觉得甚至都不止这样。
I don't think even it's even that.
我觉得不是因为你习惯了。
I don't think it's like you're, like, normalized to it.
我觉得就是演示更酷了。
I think it's just the demos are cooler.
机器人酷多了。
Robots are way cooler.
比起那些微小的电子元件在动。
Than tiny electronics moving.
就像电子在移动。
Like, electrons moving.
LED灯亮起来。
LED's lighting up.
就是很难把它做得明显有趣，我也不知道。
It's just harder to make it demonstrably fun, and I don't know.
我们当然对它感兴趣。
We're interested in it, of course.
但是就像，有人死在这块十米长的巨大钢铁里。
But like Someone's someone's dead in this giant 10 meter long piece of steel.
就像，是的。
It's like, yeah.
你好。
Hello.
对。
Right.
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
这太疯狂了。
It's mad.
你知道吗，那些巨大的水刀切割机，直接就能切开50毫米厚的钢板。
You know, these these huge water jet cutters just blasting through 50 millimeters of steel.
你懂吧？
You know?
对。
Right.
对。
Right.
所以我就
So I
我的意思是，就像如果你有一个，比如，特斯拉线圈比微控制器更有意思
mean, just like if you had a, like, Tesla coil is more interesting
是的。
Yes.
出于同样的原因。
Than a microcontroller for the same reason.
对吧？
Right?
就是在物理世界里做事情。
Just doing things in the physical world.
坐在你的展台上，对。
Sitting on your stand Yeah.
你知道，就是闪几个LED灯，对。
You know, and it's like flashing some LEDs and yeah.
但是功耗有多低
But how little power
它消耗的功率是多少？
this is taking?
对。
Yeah.
我知道。
I know.
看看功耗有多大。
Look at how much power.
哦，你看。
Oh, look.
看。
Look.
你知道吗？
You know?
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
而且我们用的那个复杂的实时操作系统，真是的。
And the complicated real time OS we're using with, and it's like Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
你知道吗？
You know?
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
打哈欠。
Yawn.
抱歉。
Sorry.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
确实。
It is.
我是说，这很难说。
Mean, it's know.
就是，就是
It's it's
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这很难。
It's hard.
事情就是这样，没办法。
The way the way the cookie crumbles, man.
对。
Yep.
对。
Yep.
要做出那种花哨的电子展示确实很难。
It's hard to get flashy electronic.
我们以前聊过这些，你知道的，就是设计展会摊位之类的。
We've talked about those in the past, you know, designing trade show stands and stuff.
你知道，要吸引人们到你的摊位来挺不容易的。
You know, it's hard to sort of entice people to your stand.
你懂吧？
You know?
所以，是的。
So Yeah.
不过，也得想想布置的事。
Well, just think about the setup though too.
就像，我知道，比如在IMTS，他们会提前一周来，你知道，因为他们要安装加工中心。
Was like, I just I know, like, at IMTS, like, would peep they would come in, like, a week early, you know, because they'd be setting up the machining centers.
对。
Yeah.
还有那些工会的码头工人，他们一托盘一托盘地把所有东西搬进来组装。
And just the, like, the unionized dock workers that are, like, bringing in pallets and pallets to put all the things together.
简直就是一片混乱，你知道的。
It's just it's pandemonium, you know.
那真是令人印象深刻的物流壮举。
It's such an impressive logistical thing.
哦，我真希望当时能留下来看看那些，哦，提前到那里看搭建和拆除的全过程。
Oh, I would love to have stuck around and actually see these oh, got there early and saw the setup and and and dismantling of it all.
你知道吗？
You know?
真是太不可思议了。
It's just incredible.
对，就是这样。
It's Like Yeah.
太疯狂了。
It's wild.
他们得把卡车开进展会，然后用巨大的起重机把那些机器从大平板卡车上吊下来，诸如此类的。
They they have to drive trucks into the show so that, you know, with giant cranes and lift them off these giant flatbed trucks and stuff like that.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
你知道吗？
You know?
这些机器重达数百吨。
These these machines weigh hundreds of tons.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
It's just Yep.
确实。
Totally.
太疯狂了。
Crazy.
天哪。
Man.
简直难以置信。
It's Unbelievable.
我是说，这真是
I mean, this is
关键就在这里。
the thing.
确实令人印象深刻。
It's impressive.
我知道。
I know.
对。
Yeah.
确实非常令人印象深刻。
It was very impressive.
戴夫，你是怎么弹奏那个的？
I How do play that, Dave?
我觉得不是，嗯，是的。
I don't think yeah.
我觉得你选对了。
I think I think you chose the right one.
对。
Yeah.
反正我选了，我两个都走了一圈，你可以比较一下，你知道的，我对制造周更兴奋。
I chose anyway, I I I have done a walk around of both so you can compare the you know, I was more excited by the manufacturing week.
对。
And Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我挺惊讶的，没想到澳大利亚的制造业这么受欢迎。
I was surprised at the just the popularity of manufacturing here in Australia.
是啊。
Yeah.
那你们
So what
你们主要生产什么？
do you what do you all make?
你们那里都造些什么？
What do y'all make there?
嗯，我们是世界上最大的钢铁生产商之一。
Well, we're one of the world's biggest steel producers.
所以，你知道，有很多大型钢铁产品。
So we you know, there's tons of, like, big steel stuff.
你知道吗？
You know?
那里有大型的，好吧。
There's big Okay.
就是那些用来切割和弯曲巨型工字钢的机器，用来建桥什么的，你知道的。
You know, cutters and benders for giant I beams to build bridges and, you know, stuff like that.
确实。
That's true.
确实。
That's true.
所以，是的。
So, yeah.
我喜欢你们的桥。
I like your bridges.
是的。
Yeah.
对，没错。
And yeah.
所以，你知道，就像是在制造，我亲眼看到他们在现场制造，比如挖掘机的大铲斗，就是那种装在凯迪拉克前面的那种大铲子。
So, you know, it's just like making like, I saw them alive, like, manufacturing, like a a big scoop for an excavator thing, like those big front, you know, the big front, you know, scoops that go on the front of bloody Escalade.
他们是在现场制造那个？
They were making that live?
那不是用很硬的钢做的吗？
Isn't that, like, made out of, like, really hardened steel?
他们确实是在现场做的。
They were making it.
对。
Yeah.
那会……
That will it
不是铸造的。
it was not cast.
有些是铸造的。
Some of them are cast.
好的。
Okay.
但是，你知道，他们实际上是在制造这些定制的形状，真是不可思议。
But, you know, they were actually manufacturing these, like, custom shaped ones that, you know, it's just it's it's nuts.
天哪。
Man.
是的。
Yeah.
而且，你知道，屋顶材料，他们也在制造，他们有一些大型滚压机，可以生产屋顶材料，嗯。
And, you know, roofing, you know, they're manufacturing, you know, they've got these big roller machines that can manufacture a roofing and, you know Mhmm.
对。
Yeah.
各种各样的。
All sorts
比如，你
of, you
知道的，对。
know Yeah.
所以像那些成品，可能是由原材料加工来的，比如挤压件之类的。
So things that, like, yeah, like finished goods that might be from raw materials that, like, extrusions and things like it.
对吧？
Right?
那边的住房肯定很贵。
Housing is obviously very expensive there.
所以我觉得这里面肯定有很多钱可赚。
So, like, I'm sure there's a lot of money in that.
所以从原材料开始，在更近的地方做可能更合理。
So doing that closer might make more sense from raw stock.
你明白吗？
You know?
还有一个展位，专门卖手推车的轮子。
And there was a stand that just had wheels for trolleys.
对吧？
Right?
他们就是摆了一大堆手推车的大轮子，各种德国产的手推车轮子之类的。
They just had big trolley wheels, like all these selection of German made trolley wheels or something.
你知道吗？
You know?
就是
It's
对，是的。
like, yeah.
好的。
Okay.
不错。
Cool.
你知道吗，就是那种，哦，对。
You know, it's like, oh, yeah.
你知道，轮子真的很好。
You know, really nice wheels.
真不错。
Damn.
你知道吗？
You know?
我也买了点那种东西。
Bought me some of that.
我们是不是进错行业了？
Did we get did we get into the wrong industry?
你是这个意思吗？
Is that what you're me?
我不知道。
I don't know.
但那时候更有意思。
But it was more fun.
确实更有意思。
It was was more fun.
至少挺新鲜的。
It fun novel at the very least.
对。
Yeah.
哦，确实新鲜。
Oh, it's novel.
总是有这一点。
There's always that.
对。
Yeah.
所以我想以后每年都去。
So I I think I'll go to that every year now.
澳大利亚制造的。
Australian manufacture.
对。
Yeah.
但是，我真的不敢相信有那么多人在那里进出。
But no, I just could not believe the volume of people that were going through.
就像，你知道，这个，我觉得有八个不同的入口，你知道，他们大概有十个入口，然后他们占了其中八个入口之类的。
Like, you know, the like, this took I think eight different like holes, like, you know, they had like 10 holes in the yeah, they took up eight of the holes or something.
那规模真是大得不得了。
It was just absolutely enormous.
所以规模很大，但那里的人数也很多。
So the scale of it was enormous, but the number of people that were there.
哇。
Wow.
简直，天哪，难以置信。
It was just, man, unbelievable.
所以，对。
So Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我也想去深圳之类的地方看看那种制造业展会。
I'd like to go to like a manufacturing style show like this in like Shenzhen or something too.
我觉得那肯定会特别疯狂。
I think it's just like That'd be nuts.
我就想看看规模上的差距。
I can just like to see the scale the scale difference.
对吧？
Right?
你懂吗？
You know?
然后我还碰到了一些小型的亚洲制造商，他们做那种车床，就是那种小的，我记得你好像买过一个，对吧？
And and then I came across like little small, you know, Asian maker of the these are lathes, you know, these little which I think you got once, didn't you?
你买了那种小型车床吗？
You got one of those small lathes?
我买的是铣床。
I did a mill.
我买的是铣床。
I did a mill.
我知道。
I know.
铣床。
A mill.
对。
Yeah.
铣床和车床有什么区别？
What's the difference between a mill and a lathe?
铣床嘛，它就像，嗯，想象一下，像一台减材的3D打印机，对吧，就是那种，对。
So a mill, mill goes it's like an like a like, imagine, like, a subtractive three d printer, right, where you have a a Yep.
旋转的刀头。
Spinning bit.
有一块材料。
Have a block.
对。
Yes.
你确实是从一块材料开始的。
You actually start with a block.
然后
And then
你基本上是从那块材料上切削掉多余的部分。
you're and then you you basically carve off, from that.
对。
Right.
车床就像是你在旋转
A lathe is like you're spinning around
就是旋转的东西。
a They're spinning thing.
对。
Yes.
主轴。
Spindle access.
对吧？
Right?
然后你用刀具去修改。
And then and then you're using a a cutter to to modify.
也有组合式的。
There there are combos as well.
对吧？
Right?
所以，
So,
对，没错。
like Right.
是的。
Yeah.
加工中心会把它们和第四轴之类的组合在一起。
Of machining centers will have them combined in fourth axis and stuff like that.
明白了。
But Got it.
对。
Yeah.
总之，你可以笑话我到处走走，把所有东西都搞错。
Anyway, you can laugh at my walk around as I get everything wrong, you know.
就像小孩子进了糖果店一样。
Like a kid in a candy store.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
而且我完全不知道自己在说什么，所以你知道，大家都在笑我，笑得不行。
And I have no clue what I was talking about, so, you know, people are just laughing their ass off, you know.
挺好的。
It's great.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
So right.
总之，对，我就是想买。
Anyway, yeah, I, like, wanted to buy.
我当时想，你懂的，我记得是See？
I wanted to, you know, I think it was See?
现在听起来没那么傻了，比我的强多了。
Doesn't seem as stupid now, better than mine.
不。
No.
我我本来想买这个小型的迷你桌面直播设备。
I I wanted to buy this little mini desktop live.
我当时想，天哪，像是什么特别节目。
I thought, oh, jeez, like, show special.
800美元。
$800.
好的。
Okay.
我就想，
I'm like,
说一个你会用车床做的东西。
Name something that you would build with a lathe.
我不知道。
I don't know.
但我想要一台。
But I'd like to have one.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
就是。
Right.
没错。
Exactly.
其实，如果你想看看
Actually, if you wanna see
旋钮，我可以做定制的金属旋钮之类的。
knobs, I can make custom metal knobs or something.
旋钮确实可以。
Knobs would actually work.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
好。
Okay.
那你就有一个了。
There you you got one one thing.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得可以看看科林·费斯，他玩车床玩得挺多的。
I'd say watch Colin Firs does a bunch with lathes.
是的。
Yes.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
不。
No.
对。
Yeah.
他太棒了。
He's great.
还有本·克拉斯诺也是。
And Ben Ben Krasno as well.
这两个都是很好的开始，我们经常能在里面看到车床，然后我就会想，我从来没想到能做那个。
Those are both great start you we will find lathes often in there, and I'll be like, I never would have thought to make that.
这就像，最常见的情况是，当我看到什么东西在旋转，我就会想，那是我第一个想到的。
That is, like, the most common thing when I see, like, something spinning, and I'm like, that's the first thought.
然后第二个念头就是，我肯定会把手指头切掉。
And then the second thought is, I would totally chop a finger off.
这就是另一个想法。
That's the other one.
对。
Yes.
因为是的。
Because yeah.
我不
I don't
我也是。
Same.
我不知道它是怎么运作的。
I don't know how it works.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
但确实有人做得很好，既成功又安全。
But there are people that do it well and successfully and safely.
所以我就觉得，挺好的。
So I'm just yeah.
为他们高兴。
Good for them.
我真的很喜欢那种小型桌面机器的想法。
I I really like the idea of, like, small desktop machines like that.
你知道吗？
You know?
有点像，对。
It's kinda like, yeah.
你知道吗？
You know?
我知道。
I know.
放在角落里，需要的时候用。
Sit in a corner for when I need
对吧？
You know?
哦，它们确实会放在角落里。
Oh, they would sit in a corner.
那是肯定的。
That's for sure.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
他们坐在角落里肯定表现得很出色。
Would they would do splendidly at sitting in a corner.
他们确实会做得很好。
They would do really well.
对。
Yeah.
我，你知道，我从以前的嘉宾菲利普·弗雷丁那里得到过这个建议，关于机械加工之类的。
I, you know, I got this advice, I think, from past guest Philip Fredine about about, like, machining and stuff like that.
我觉得是他，或者我确定有几个人告诉过我，就是说，那些你觉得需要的零件，你就一直反复地订购。
I I think it was him or I'm sure a couple of people told me this, but it was, like, buy they send send out for these parts you think you need, like, over and over and over again.
现在有很多服务都能做这种事，比如发送、切割、发送然后……
Like, there's so many services these days that'll do this sort of thing, like send, cut, send and
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
所有这些在线服务，你只要把设计文件发过去，他们就会把成品寄回来。
All Of of these, like, online services where you can just send in the design files, and then they'll send you back a thing.
而且用多了之后，你就会想买台机器，对。
And do that enough to the point where, like, you get to a machine, like Yes.
甚至800块。
Even 800.
我很难想象能用到800块的价值。
Like, I would be very hard pressed to get $800 worth of Value.
没错。
Exactly.
对。
Yes.
线索。
Leads.
你在那里被冒犯了。
You've been offended there.
对。
Yep.
是的。
Yeah.
我就是，嗯。
I just yeah.
我知道。
I know.
你知道吗？
You know?
除非你真的第二天就需要它。
Unless you're to the point where you actually need it the next day.
就像一台贴片机。
It's like a pick and place machine.
你知道吗？
You know?
就像拾取和放置一样。
It's like pick and place.
没错。
Exactly.
肯定有个小众的窗口期，值得你花时间和金钱。
There's gotta be some niche little window there where it's worth your time and money.
对。
Right.
除非你是在找项目做，那当然就会
Unless you're looking for a project, which it would then, of course
当然，这是个学习用的爱好项目。
Of of course, it's a hobby project to learn
那种事情。
that sort of thing.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yep.
没错。
Exactly.
你可能会需要它，比如说，世界末日之后，定制制造什么的。
You might need it for, you know, like, custom manufacturing once the world falls apart.
你懂吧？
You know?
那挺好的。
That's great.
你懂吧？
You know?
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
僵尸末日制造。
Zombie apocalypse manufacturing.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
对。
Yeah.
我记得有一次看到有人把树桩用车轴固定住，打算用车床加工，但他们把树桩绑在汽车的车轴上。
I think the what did I see the one time someone was doing a they put a they bolted, a tree stump that they were gonna, like, turn on a lathe, but they attached it to, like, the axle of a car.
然后他们就有了，
And so then they had, like,
一块砖头，他们把砖头放在车上，然后他们就这样。对。
a brick they on spit out a brick on the car, and then they just Yeah.
真的转起来了。
It was really spin it.
天哪。
Oh my god.
对。
Yeah.
就是
It was
红脖子机器，红脖子机器。
Redneck Redneck machine.
对。
Yeah.
非常红脖子。
Very redneck.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
非常土气。
Very redneck.
对。
Yeah.
那太好了。
That's great.
推荐。
Recommend.
但是，你知道，就像你说的，僵尸末日那种感觉。
But, you know, you're know, like, that's like you said, zombie apocalypse.
对，没错。
Like Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
就该这么做。
That's how you do it.
你知道吗？
You know?
对。
Yeah.
完全同意。
Totally.
对。
Yeah.
工具准备。
Tool prepping.
那算是工具准备吗？
Is that tool prepping?
工具准备。
Tool prepping.
我的意思是，那些准备者，至少在美国，都是非常痴迷枪支的人。
I mean, the preppers, at least in The States, are very gun gun nut.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
枪、弹药和食物。
Gun, ammo, and food.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
嗯，但你可以用，我是说，你真的可以用车床来制造枪管之类的。
Well, but you can make I mean, like, you literally can use a lathe to make, like, barrels.
对吧？
Right?
就像，那是另一个非常好的用途，非常好。
Like, that is another very good use very good.
说好可能有点夸张，但车床一个很常见的用途就是做枪管。
Good is probably a a stretch, but a very common use case of a lathe would be to make a gun barrel.
真的，就是，对。
Like, you literally Yeah.
没错。
Right.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
所以，每次你看到有人反对3D打印枪支的时候，其实花800美元买个车床，做出来的东西可能可靠得多，哦，对。
So, like, for all every time you see, like, a argument against, like, three d printed guns, it's, $800 lathe, and you're probably gonna have a much more reliable Oh, yeah.
对。
Yeah.
完全同意。
Totally.
就是那种砰砰砰、嗖嗖嗖的感觉。
Bang bang pew pew kind of thing.
所以，是的。
So yeah.
对。
Yeah.
但你不能真的下载文件然后按个按钮就行。
But you can't just actually download the file and hit a button.
你懂吧？
You know?
你不会去下载一把枪吧。
You wouldn't download a gun.
对。
Yeah.
所以，那个带我入行机械加工的指南作者，El Camtuf，他现在写了很多电子方面的博客文章。
So, the person who wrote the guide that got me into machining, the El Camtuf, he does, like, a bunch of electronics blog posts now.
我记得我可能在一两期节目之前提过这个。
I think I mentioned it maybe one or two shows ago.
好的。
Okay.
我还是强烈推荐那个，我会把那个机械加工指南的链接放上去。
I still highly recommend the, I'll I'll link in the the machining guide.
我觉得它仍然很棒，不过你知道，有个前提。
I think it's still amazing with, know, you the caveat.
如果你读了它，你可能会想买一台车床，或者抱歉，
If you read it, you might wanna buy a lathe or I'm sorry.
是铣床，对吧。
A mill rather Right.
不过我不建议买，至少在我目前的人生阶段是这样。
Which I would not recommend at this point in my at least in my life.
但是
But
我记得你把你的卖了吧，是不是？
I think you sold yours, didn't you?
你把它卖了？
You sold it?
我跟我的朋友马蒂换的，他当时在设计、组装3D打印套件，所以那是我第一台3D打印机。
I traded it with my friend Marty who was building he was designing, three d printing kits, and so I that was my first three d printer.
哦，对。
Oh, right.
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Right.
你用一台铣床换了一台更有用的3D打印机。
You traded a mill for a more useful three d printer.
我不确定
I'm not
他后来
sure if
有没有留着它。
he ever kept it.
不过
But
对。
Right.
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
那套件现在都散架了，我后来也放弃了DIY，转向了那种拿来就能用的东西。
That that kit is now in pieces, and I've I've since moved away from the DIY and into the it just works.
所以我是，是的。
So I'm Yep.
对此非常满意。
Very happy with that.
对。
Yeah.
我属于那种只要能用就行的阵营。
I'm in the it just needs to work campaign.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
就我打印的频率来说。
For how often I print on it.
你知道，现在又冒出那种想法了，就是那种“哦，我需要一台树脂打印机”的感觉。
You know, the same kind of, like, thing pops up now, you know, like the, oh, I I need a resin printer.
不。
No.
你不需要，克里斯。
You don't, Chris.
比如，先送个贵的，对。
Like, send out a pricey Exactly.
在你说你需要树脂打印机之前，先打印点树脂样品。
Resin prints before you say you need a resin printer.
这就像同一个测试，对。
That's, like, the same test Yeah.
我需要做的，但我一直没做到，戴夫。
I need to do, and I've just keep failing at it, Dave.
所以
So
对我来说，就是这样，是的，我经常收到这些公司的邀请。
Well, it's like for me, it's like, yeah, I get these companies all the time.
他们说，我们会送你一台3D树脂打印机。
Look, we'll send you a three a three d resin printer.
我就想，我要它来干什么？
I'm going, what am I gonna use it for?
对。
Yeah.
就是说，即使我是免费得到的，你知道吗？
It's like, you know, that like, even though I'm getting it for free, you know?
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
完全同意。
Totally.
就是说，它会
It's like It's gonna
占你一块地方。
take a broom in your lap.
你知道吗？
You know?
对。
Yeah.
就是会占地方。
It's just gonna take up broom.
没错。
Exactly.
对。
Yeah.
再说，你知道，我们在节目里说过很多次了，比如，爱好从3D打印开始，但如果它没有立刻变成3D建模，基本上，你就是在打印一些小玩意儿，我觉得那就像
Again, you know, things that we've said many times on the show before, like, the the hobby starts with three d printing, but if it doesn't immediately become three d modeling, basically, it's like you're just printing trinkets and, like, I feel like that's
你就是在打印尤达的头像。
You're you're printing Yoda heads.
你
You
知道吗？
know?
你真的得先学会建模，而且这可以免费做到。
You really gotta just get into modeling first, and you can do that for free.
对。
Yes.
Free CAD 1.00比之前的版本好多了。
Free CAD 1.00 is much better than the earlier version.
所以虽然不算特别好，但它在慢慢变好。
So not great, but it's it's getting better.
好的。
Alright.
对。
Yeah.
为什么你要叫它1.00，就为了原则？
Why would you call it one point o o just on principle?
没人
Nobody
首先，就像标准化API一样。
first, like it's like standardizing the API.
这就是原因。
That's the reason
但没人信1.00这种垃圾。
you But nobody trusts one point o o crap.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
你下载的是1.0.1版本，你知道吗？
You download one point zero point one, you know?
对。
Right.
通常很快就发布了。
Comes out very shortly after usually.
对。
Right.
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
修复了一些bug。
Bug fixes.
哦，是的。
Oh, Yeah.
对了，我现在在做一些实验室环境监测。
Anyway, I am doing some lab environmental monitoring at the moment.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
我们节目前聊过这个。
We were talking about that before the show.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
这就是你开始做这个的原因吗？
Was the was the prompting of this?
你为什么开始做这个？
Why did you why did you start?
不知怎么的，周末的时候，你知道，我岳父母他们来了。
For some reason, like, was on the weekend, you know, had the in laws over.
我小姨子，嗯。
My sister-in-law Mhmm.
她是搞环境的，就是那种环境空气质量科学家。
Who's a environmental just like she's like an environmental air quality scientist.
好的。
Okay.
对吧？
Right?
好的。
Okay.
然后呢，我也不知道怎么回事。
And anyway, so I I don't know.
不知怎么的，我就给她看了我实验室里的那个环境监测器，它连着网，你可以登录进去，还能写东西。
For some reason, I was showing her the the like I've got a an environmental monitor here in the lab and it's hooked up to the net and you can log in and you can write.
所以我登录进去，给她看了那个图表，他有物联网设备。
So so I logged into it and showed her the graph of He's got IOT.
二氧化碳，甲醛。
C o two, formaldehyde.
等等，让我看看这个。
Hang on and let me look at this.
我有什么？
What have I got?
我有温度、气压、湿度、挥发性有机物、噪音、二氧化碳、甲醛、PM2.5颗粒物，就是2.5微米的颗粒物。
I've got temperature, pressure, humidity, VOCs, noise, carbon dioxide, formaldehyde, p m 2.5 particulate matter, so that's 2.5 micron particulate matter.
还有辐射，以防万一，你知道，核末日来了。
Radiation, just in case, you know, the nuclear apocalypse happens.
什么类型的颗粒？
What kind of particles?
伽马射线吗？
Gamma?
贝塔？
Beta?
我知道那些。
I know those.
伽马。
Gamma.
对。
Yes.
但其中一种穿不过外壳。
But one of them doesn't make it through the case.
是伽马吗？
Is it the is it the gamma?
是的。
Yeah.
穿不过外壳或者什么的。
Doesn't make it through the case or whatever.
我总记不住哪个是
I can never remember which of
对，那个。
the Yeah.
两个能通过这个案例。
Two ones make it through the case.
所以无所谓了。
So whatever.
你看，你有
You see, you got
不过那里有个管子。
a tube in there though.
它有点像，就像
It's got like it's like
一种辐射。
a radiation.
这里有一个高压管。
There's a high voltage tube.
现在它运行在381伏，因为有一个电压
Currently It's running at 381 volts because there's a voltage
当我们需要它们的时候，你懂吧？
when we need them, you know?
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
总之，是的。
And anyway, yeah.
所以我和她正在处理那个甲醛。
So I'm and she's going that formaldehyde.
哇。
Woah.
那边发生什么事了？
What's going on there?
而且每次我一开门，甲醛浓度就会大幅飙升，实际上底部是绿色的，然后变黄，再变橙，最后变红。
And it's like every time I open my door, there's a big formaldehyde spike which like and it's actually like it like it's actually green at the bottom, then it gets yellow, then it gets orange, and it gets red.
对。
Yeah.
而且峰值远远超出红色区域，我就是这样
And the spikes are way up in the red, and And that's how I
发现走廊那头有个遗体防腐诊所的。
learned that there was an embalming clinic down the hall.
这些甲醛峰值很大，但大约十分钟内就会降下来。
These big formaldehyde but but they go down within ten minutes or something.
但每次我开门，都会有这些巨大的甲醛峰值之类的。
But every time I open the door, there's these giant formaldehyde spikes and stuff.
然后我的二氧化碳浓度也升到了800ppm左右。
And then my my c o two's up in 800 parts per million or something like that.
你知道吗？
You know?
900。
900.
不会吧。
No.
你知道吗？
You know?
P，不对。
P no.
是PPM吗？
It's is it PPM?
是这样吗？
Is that what it is?
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
PPM。
PPM.
对。
Yep.
我的二氧化碳水平，你知道，这些需要呼吸的人类，真是麻烦的人类。
My carbon dioxide level, you know, these humans that need to breathe, you know, pesky humans.
对。
Yep.
所以，是的。
So yeah.
总之，我的戴森过滤器里其实有一个甲醛过滤器。
Anyway, so my Dyson filter here actually has a formaldehyde filter in it.
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