阿森纳胜利为本周末精彩赛果画上句点

是赖斯。多么精彩的进球。德克兰·赖斯用一记任意球轰出世界波。阿森纳领先，一次内切。萨卡。

It's Rice. What a goal. Declan Rice with an absolute rocket with a free kick. Arsenal lead one cut inside. Saka.

阿森纳球迷感到沮丧，因为本周末又一个定位球得分让枪手在运动战进球榜上排名下滑。这里是赛后播客《兵工厂视野》，我是亚历克斯·史密斯·布洛普曼，推特账号洋基枪迷。这种局面如今已是我们习以为常的了。我们都曾梦想这个赛季能令人振奋、激动，甚至可能为我们带来一座奖杯。

Arsenal supporters despondent as another set piece goal this weekend moves Arsenal down the open play goals table. This is the arsenal vision post match podcast. My name is Alex Smithy Blopman, Twitter Yankee Gunner. It is just a situation that you we've come to expect at this point. We all dreamed of a season that could be exhilarating, exciting, maybe even bring us one of trophy things.

但随着我们在运动战进球榜上不断下滑，人们不禁怀疑我们能否进入前五，获得下赛季运动战欧冠资格。我们还得看看还有什么机会。我想唯一的安慰是真实积分榜——我们高居榜首。我们必须让这点小小的慰藉渗入灵魂。

But now as we slide further and further down the open play goals table, one wonders if we can even make top five and reach the open play goals champions league for next season. We'll have to see what what is still available to us. Now I guess the silver lining is the actual table. We're top. We're top of the actual table, and we're gonna have to we're gonna have to let that small soul solace seep into our souls.

刚才用了很多头韵，虽非刻意但效果不错。大家好！希望你们享受了这个——公平地说——结果令人难以置信的周末。有些充满敌意的观赛体验相当精彩。

That was a lot of alliteration. Not intended, but it worked out. Hey, everybody. Hope you enjoyed what was, I think it's fair to say, an incredible weekend of results. Some sensational hate watches.

利物浦持续崩盘中。哈兰德可能受到亚马逊云服务中断影响，本周末未能进球。虽然没看到期待中热刺或曼联的翻车好戏，但他们已无关紧要。重要的是阿森纳已将我认为是争冠主要对手的球队甩开相当安全的距离。想想短短四周前——确切说是五周前因为第17周是国际比赛日——我们的处境，这种转变简直疯狂。

Liverpool continue to melt down. Erling Holland must have been hit by the AWS outage and failed to score this weekend. And we didn't get the Spurs hate watch or United hate watch we wanted, but they're not really relevant. What is relevant is that Arsenal have stretched their lead at the top of the table over what I think we consider our chief rivals in this title race to a pretty healthy level. And it's crazy to think where we were just four short weeks ago, five short weeks ago of of matches because, of course, four short weeks ago, we were in week 17 of an international break.

但你们明白重点：局势已发生巨变，我迫不及待要探讨其中奥妙。今天我们会花时间复盘整个周末，分析阿森纳的制胜之道，当然还有伤病情况——如果你像我一样总担心无事可忧，别怕，我为你准备了焦虑素材。

But you get the idea. The point is things have turned in a massive way, and I am excited to discuss how they turn. So today, we're going to spend some time talking about the weekend as a whole. We'll spend some time talking about how Arsenal are getting it done, certainly the injury situation, which if you are like me and you're like, I'm running out of things to worry about, don't worry. I've got you covered.

我们会在播客里塞些忧患话题，但肯定也会解析这场比赛。虽非经典对决，但最终结果圆满。另外预告下：我们在Patreon平台有全套独家内容，若你好这口，诚邀加入。

We will get some worries into the podcast. But we will, of course, also break down the game. Not necessarily an instant classic, but as I did let it all work out in the end. So we'll get to that. I will let you know that we've got a full slate of Patreon action, hot Patreon action, if that is your thing, and we'd love to have you there.

AVP 50是一个代码。快来加入吧，因为你每天都能收听到一期播客。怎么样？你还能参加办公时间与我们直接交流，还有周五晚的克莱夫时间，听听他有了儿子萨拉后的分享，总是充满惊喜。

AVP 50 is a code. Just come do it because you get a podcast every single day. How about that? You get office hours where you can talk to us. You get Friday night Clive where you can listen to what Clive has to say when he's had a son, Sarah, which is always exciting.

你还能听到倒计时特辑。我们刚和菲尔录了一期倒计时节目，我们做了什么？我们回到了BuzzFeed的黄金时代，给所有东西排了名次。

You get the countdown episode. We just did a countdown episode with Phil where he we did this. Guess what? We went back to the golden age of BuzzFeed. We ranked everything.

给球队排名、球员排名、中卫组合排名、英超冠军排名...我们把一切都排了个遍。

Ranked the teams. Ranked the players. Ranked the center back pairings. Ranked champions of of the Premier League. We we ranked everything.

还排了欧冠挑战者的名次。如果你喜欢排名，我们为你准备了这些；如果不喜欢，我们还有其他内容。我们会重看比赛录像——虽然我不想伤任何人的心，水晶宫那场比赛应该不会重看。

Ranked the champions league challengers. So if you like rankings, we have that for you. If you don't like rankings, we got other things for you. We do rewatches of games, although I don't wanna break anyone's heart. I don't think we'll be rewatching the palace game.

没关系。我们还会在每场比赛结束后第一时间做即时反应。所以请来加入我们，或者留在这里也行。重要的是我们爱你们，非常高兴能与你们共建这个社区。

That's okay. And we do instant reactions at full time of everything. So please come be there or just stay here. The port the important thing is we love you. We are so happy to have this community with you.

我们由衷感谢由你们这些可爱的人引发的关于阿森纳的讨论。顺便说，如果愿意给我们五星好评——这能帮助更多人找到这个播客，特别是当越来越多人逃离充斥着'运动战进球榜'之类话题的 toxic 社交媒体时——我们需要更多人发现这个节目，让我们成为共同体。当然，如果你想打一星也完全自由，我建议你详细写出来发邮件给pause。

We're so appreciative of the the conversation that springs up around Arsenal as a result of all of you beautiful people. And if you would like to give us a five star review, by the way, helps people find the podcast as more and more people flee the toxicity of social media where they talk about things like open play goals tables. And we need people to find this pod so we can all be a community together. So a five star review would be very appreciated. But if you wanna give us a one star review that is totally free to do, what I would say is write it out in detail, email it to pause.

这是让意见直达的最佳方式。好了，废话不多说。现在有请克莱夫。你好啊克莱夫。

That is the best way to get that through where it needs to go. Okay. Enough nonsense. Here with me now is Clive. Hello, Clive.

你好。你好。

Hello. Hello.

还有蒂姆。

And Tim.

你好啊。

Hello there.

大家怎么样？蒂姆，还好吗？

How are guys doing? Tim, good?

都挺好的。谢谢。

All good. Thank you.

是啊。周末过得成功吗？

Yes. Successful weekend?

对。对。对。只是我周日比赛后去了酒吧看热刺比赛，我本不该去的。那是唯一有点扫兴的事。

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just I I went to the pub after the game on Sunday to watch Spurs, which which I shouldn't have done. That was the only kind of down.

所以这是一次不成功的'仇恨观影'。不过总体来说，这个周末过得还不错。

So that was an unsuccessful hate watch. But, otherwise, pretty good weekend, all told.

是啊，你试图挑战命运。这周末你本有很多机会进行有趣的'仇恨观影'，但你最想避开的就是这个。克莱夫，你呢？周末过得愉快吗？

Yeah. You attempted fate. You had a lot of chances for fun hate watches this weekend, but that was the one you really wanted to to give a miss to. Clive, what about you? Did you enjoy the weekend?

我知道我们和水晶宫队进行了一场战术性极强的比赛。对你来说肯定像欧冠决赛一样重要。

I know we had a highly tactical battle against Crystal Palace. It must have been like your Champions League final.

嗯，你很快就能看出这将是一场棋局般的较量。不过我昨天和妻子去看比赛了，所以玩得很开心。她见识了我看球时的样子。但我们提前离场了，错过了所有酒局。所以没错，我可是个重要人物。

Well, you can see very, very quickly it was gonna be a chess match. But, I went to game with wife yesterday, so I had a good time. She see what what happens at when I go football. But we had to leave early, so I missed out on all the drinks. And, so, yeah, I'm a big guy.

看到一些照片。我知道蒂姆肯定在喝酒。早些时候看到蒂姆外出的照片，我就想，天啊，我又搞砸了。

Seeing some pictures. I know Tim will be drinking. Seeing some pictures of Tim out earlier. I'm thinking, oh, man. I've blown it again.

不是吗？本该更早出门更晚回来，但那天我选择了负责任。

Haven't I? Should have been out much earlier and got back much later, but but was being responsible on the day.

好吧，为你点赞。听着克莱夫，阿森纳现在排名第一。7胜1平1负，进16球失4球，按照这个节奏，他们有望打破切尔西保持的英超单赛季最少失球纪录（15球）。当然路还很长，现在才刚过四分之一赛程。

Well, good for you. Look, Clive, Arsenal currently sit first. Seven wins, one draw, one loss, sixteen four, three against on pace to actually beat Chelsea's record of 15 goals conceded as the fewest conceded in a Premier League season. Long way to go, obviously. Almost at the quarter pole.

对吧？38场比赛，已经进行了9场。赛季大约进行了23%，或者说22%。我们与曼城、利物浦之间已经拉开了一段可观的小差距——如果你真认为这两队是我们的竞争对手的话。或者像克莱夫这样的聪明人，他预测曼联本赛季能进前五，现在看来这预测并不像几周前我嘲笑他时那么可笑，毕竟曼联现在与曼城同积16分，落后我们6分，而利物浦连输四场英超后已跌至15分。15分，或者说落后7分。

Right? 38 games, nine in. So, you know, 23% into the season, 22 into the season. There's there's a healthy little lead developing between us, City, and Liverpool if you indeed believe those are the teams we are competing against or if you're a smart person like Clive who predicted United to finish in the top five this season, suddenly, that doesn't look so silly despite the fact that I was already doing end zone dances on his prediction just a few short weeks ago as they sit level on points with City who are on sixteen, six points behind us, and Liverpool now down to 15 points having lost four consecutive Premier League games. 15 points or seven points back.

克莱夫，这个周末的战果简直不可思议，让我们处于极其有利的位置。这个周末对你而言如何？你如何看待我们目前在积分榜上的位置？

Clive, it is an incredible weekend of results that sees us in a very, very strong position. How how this weekend play out for you, and how much are you how how are you taking in our position in the league table right now?

这个周末很有意思，不仅要消化我们自己和其他球队的比赛结果，还要吸收各方的反馈。或许大家开始意识到我们其实挺强的，对吧？考虑到足球的发展趋势，以及我们应对现代足球的能力——赛程更密集、对抗更激烈，尤其是在欧战后的表现。我们可以看到利物浦和曼城就没能像我们这样处理好这些。这是个有趣的时刻，我觉得足球界正在重新审视自己。但从阿森纳的角度看，这场比赛开场几分钟就明显有种战术意图，让你意识到这不是一场对攻战。

An interesting weekend just absorbing not just the result and results of others, but absorbing the sort of feedback from everyone, maybe realizing that we're we're quite good, right, and where the game is going and and how equipped we are to manage the modern game, the increased fixer list with increased physicality within those fixtures, particularly post the European game and what happened. And we can see at Liverpool and City didn't quite manage that so well as what as what we did. So so it's an interesting time, and I think the game is starting to look at itself. But from an Arsenal perspective, in this game, you know, there was a definite tactical view to it that made you think within a few minutes, okay. This isn't a game, a two and throwing game.

我让你过来看录像。下半场请忘掉之前的印象。情况并非如此——像水晶宫这样比我们晚两天踢欧战的球队，决定采取固守策略，保持高度纪律性，等待我们横传失误时发动突袭。我们对此心知肚明，也相应地保持了警惕。

I've let you come and read it. Wipe that from your memory in the second half. This is not what's happening here. This is something else where a team like Palace who also played in Europe a couple days later than us had decided to come and have a real standstill and have a look, be really disciplined, and wait for a square pass they could jump on us and try to affect us. And we were very much aware of that, and we were very much cautious accordingly because we understand what they were trying to do.

所以几分钟内我们就清楚这将是什么样的比赛。关键在于把握那个瞬间，而我们成功抓住了，并由此掌控了局面。

So within a few minutes, it became really clear what sort of afternoon we're gonna have. It's all about that moment, and we managed to grab it, and we went from there.

是的。蒂姆，我知道大家会聚焦阿森纳是如何做到的，或许我们稍后会讨论我们找到的取胜之道。你可能会惊讶，我对此也有些想法。不过这个周末我们先看了利物浦的比赛，让我们简单聊聊他们。

Yeah. And and, Tim, I mean, I know there's gonna be a lot of focus on how Arsenal are doing this, and maybe we'll get to some of that discussion around how we're finding ways to win games. And I have as you'll be surprised to hear some thoughts on that. But, you know, we we did watch Liverpool play to start this weekend. Let's just quickly touch on them.

每届冠军争夺战都要具体问题具体分析。就像上赛季兰帕德带队时，我们觉得根本谈不上争冠，因为曼城崩得太厉害，我们又遭遇伤病潮。利物浦因此获得了独特机会并把握住了。无论他们是否表现卓越，其赛季主线显然是萨拉赫开季的历史级爆发，以及后期当潜在竞争者都无力追赶时的轻松夺冠。这依然是冠军，是辉煌的成就，他们完全有理由庆祝。

I mean, it is the case that each title race, you have to take it as it comes. I think we felt as also Rand's last season that there never really was much of a title race because City fell away so badly, and we were struck by injuries. And so Liverpool were given a a unique opportunity, and they took it. Whether they were excellent or not, obviously, the story of their season was a historic hot run from Mohamed Salah to start the season, and then a coast to a title late in the season when the teams that could have chased them just had nothing really to offer. It's still a title, and it's still a really brilliant one, and that they have every right to celebrate it.

我认为现在看利物浦的情况，确实可以质疑斯洛特是否真正掌控了球队方向。在我看来，他们夏季转会策略非常奇怪。某种程度上，如果你原本认为英超冠军将在利物浦和阿森纳之间产生，那么现在这已成为对两队夏窗操作的公投——我们通过夏窗引援大幅补强，如今正克服着被外界忽视的严重伤病危机；而他们选择忽视阵容短板，这些漏洞正被无情针对。利物浦这四轮联赛的颓势说明，在FIFA游戏里堆砌前锋或许有趣，但在真实英超赛场，这未必是可行策略。

And I think you look at Liverpool right now, though, and I think it is fair to ask if Slott really has a a grip on what he's trying to do with this group. They they had a very bizarre approach to the summer in my mind. And I think the title race in a way, if you thought it was gonna be Liverpool and Arsenal, has become a referendum on summers, one where we strengthened massively, and now we're overcoming a major injury crisis that people aren't really talking about with us through the moves we made in the summer. And they opted to ignore areas of need in their squad, and those areas are being ruthlessly exploited. So I think what we're seeing with this four game slide with Liverpool is just you know, it's fun to play FIFA and have all the attackers, but in the real Premier League, it's actually not necessarily a viable strategy.

嗯，我对利物浦的看法可能更宽容些。虽然...其实没人愿意...

Yeah. I I think I think I have a slightly more sympathetic view of Liverpool. I don't Well, no one wants

听这种话。真的。

to hear that. Really.

我并非完全不同意你的观点，包括资源配置那些。我们上赛季就说过，下赛季才是斯洛特真正的处子赛季。但有时候现实就是——不可能每个赛季都完美。

I I don't necessarily disagree with what you said and, like, allocation of resources and all of that. And and look. We said it all last season. Next season is slots really his first season. But, like, I think just what happens sometimes is every season can't be perfect.

利物浦上赛季的情况是：他们在2024夏窗几乎毫无动作，因此保持着原有阵容，球员默契度高，伤病情况良好，这些确实帮了大忙。正如我常说的，这很公平，毕竟他们已连续多个赛季保持竞争力。就像你说的，对我们和利物浦这类俱乐部而言，有时确实需要坚持等待对手犯错的机会——他们上赛季就等到了。但2024年按兵不动的代价就是：他们不得不在2025年进行大规模调整，还失去了球队的重要支柱。

And what happened last season for Liverpool was they did almost nothing summer twenty twenty four. So they had the same team, same players, nice and settled, good injury run, and all of that, and that really, really helped them. And as I've said many times, fair enough because they've been up there competing season after season. And to your point, yeah, particularly for clubs like us and Liverpool, sometimes you just do have to just keep doing that and wait for the breaks to come to you a little bit with your rivals, and that happened for them last season. But the cost or consequence of doing nothing in the 2024 and having that lovely settled team is then they had to do a lot in the 2025, and they lost a really big pillar of their team.

我认为在那些'球员离开利物浦天理难容'的道德恐慌背后，人们完全忽略了他们失去的是特伦特·亚历山大-阿诺德这样不可替代的划时代球员。这类球员根本没有平替，所以他们选择了不同建队路线，但目前看来并不成功。

And I think really buried in all of the kind of moral panic over that we always get when players leave Liverpool because how dare they? It it's been completely brushed over that they've lost a generational player who is also totally unique in Trent Alexander Arnold. Like, you can't replace that guy. There isn't another one of him. So they've gone down a different road, and it's not working so far.

或许斯洛特能在未来半年解决所有问题，但我始终认为本赛季将是过渡赛季——这种情况时有发生。我们上赛季也经历过，伤病是主因，但进攻端也被对手摸透了。还记得去年十二月那场0-0闷平埃弗顿的比赛吗？

Now it might. Like, Slot might iron out all of these wrinkles in the next six months, but my feeling is and always has been this season is gonna be a transition season, and that happens to you sometimes. It's it's happened to us. You know, last season, injuries were a lot of it, but also we got found out a bit, didn't we, in terms of attack? Like, I look back at that Everton nil nil draw last December.

当时我们大部分球员状态良好，传球配合流畅得像玩马蹄铁游戏，对手很容易就能逼平我们。上赛季我们不得不吸取一些惨痛教训，这让球队今年变得更强大。利物浦两年前也经历过类似情况，这让他们上赛季更强，但他们现在正处于不同的发展阶段。

Most of our players were fit at that point, and we were passing around the horseshoe, and it was just too easy to draw with us. So we had to learn some harsh lessons last season. That's made us stronger this year. Liverpool had that two seasons ago. It made them stronger last season, but they're they're just they're just at a different point in their journey at the moment.

除非你是曼城——引用大卫·卡恩那本关于曼城的佳作来说——富可敌国，否则总会遇到波折赛季。我认为利物浦可能正经历漫长调整期，也许是斯洛特能力不足等等。但无论如何，他们就像我们上赛季那样遇到了瓶颈期，毕竟没有球队能年年完美。

And and unless you're Manchester City and you have you know, you're richer than God to, you know, to invoke a very good book about Manchester City by David Kahn, like, you are just gonna have seasons where there are wrinkles. And I think Liverpool are just having might be very long lasting. It might be the slot's not up to the job, blah blah blah. But either way, they're having, like, a wrinkly season like we had last season. So you can't be perfect every year.

我理解当队中拥有范迪克和萨拉赫这样的联赛历史级球员时，你不可能轻易放弃他们。但他们已经到了巅峰期后的年龄，若状态下滑就会带来问题。利物浦试图通过加强进攻来弥补，但问题是：本赛季他们已有八场比赛丢两球以上。

Yeah. And and I'm sympathetic to the fact that when you have a Van Dyke and a Salah, you don't just wanna kick them out of your squad because they're two of the best players in the history of the league. But they are getting to the age where you know if they're not at their best anymore, we're going to have some issues, and they may have tried to to strengthen that by really focusing on the attack. But here's the thing. Eight times this season, Liverpool have conceded two or more goals.

整整八次！上周末对布伦特福德就丢了三球。而我们上次单场丢三球还是两年前对阵卢顿。事实就是他们的防守体系根本不够严谨。

Eight. They conceded three to Brentford at the weekend. The last time we conceded three goals was against Luton over two years ago. It it is the case that they are just not serious defensively. They just aren't.

他们已经连续九场零封失败，这种踢法太不严谨了。球队有很多问题需要解决，从斯洛特的言论和球员满意度来看，裂痕已经显现。看他如何扭转局面会很有趣。克莱夫，虽然现在还不能断言，但如果你认为利物浦问题太多难以克服...

They are now nine games without a clean sheet. It it's it's not a serious way of playing, and they they have a lot of things to work out. And I think the cracks are showing a little bit in some of the things slot saying, some of the things that they have going on there with the the satisfaction of the players. It's gonna be very interesting to see how he tries to right that ship. But, Clive, if if you think that Liverpool may have too many problems to overcome, and I you you can't write them off yet at this stage, certainly.

那么另一支值得关注的球队就是曼城。他们丢掉了关键积分——我没看比赛因为和我们时间冲突，说实话我宁愿看自己球队，虽然中立球迷会觉得这选择很蠢。他们在对阵维拉时输球，基本上符合近期状态。

But if you believe that, the other team you'd look at is City. City dropped some very useful points. I didn't see the game because, obviously, they played while we were playing. And as it turns out, I'd prefer to watch us than Manchester City, although the neutral would say that's a silly choice. And, you know, they they lost to Villa in a game where essentially the the form held.

如果哈兰德不进球，他们似乎就无计可施。所以曼城真如外界所说只是单核球队吗？你是这么认为的？

If Holland doesn't score, they really don't have any other way to get it done. So are City the one man team that that they're being made out to be? Is that how you see them?

嗯，是的，我想这三支球队都有各自的故事线，对吧？有那种靠定位球的丑陋球队，有玩阴招的球队，还有花了4.5亿却不知道在干嘛的球队。然后就是曼城，哈兰德领衔的球队。对吧？

Well, yeah, I suppose there's a narrative for all three teams, isn't there? You got all sort of set piece, ugly team, dark arts team. You've got slots 450,000,000 spent, don't know what he's doing team. And you got City, the Harlan team. Right?

而且——而且——在任何一天，局面都可能逆转。如果我们没通过定位球得分，那就是零比零平局。我们会在角球榜上名列前茅。如果利物浦继续丢球——因为他们失去了三名高强度前锋，其中两人迪亚斯和努涅斯离队，锋线补进了冲击力不足的球员，边后卫位置也不够稳固，突然之间他们就开始频频失球了。

And and and only in any given day, that can reverse. If we don't score from a set piece, it's nil, no draw. We're gonna be top of the charts for a kick in. If if if Liverpool keep conceding goals because they've taken out well, they've they've lost three very intense forwards. One, but two, they moved on in in Diaz and Nunez, and they've added less intense players into their front line, destabilized at fullback, not as physical at fullback areas, and suddenly, they're conceding more goals.

本可以在场上放防守更强的球员。其他球队已经发现对付他们的方法：长传冲吊，逼他们的非跑动型后卫不断回追，这让他们很难受。明白吗？至于曼城，我们都知道他们很优雅，是支讲究的球队。

Could've got less defensive player on the pitch. And teams have worked out to go long against them and make their nonrunning defenders run consistently, and they don't like it. Alright? So and City, we know are nice. They're a nice team.

由于沃特里的受伤和这个位置的问题，他们中场稳定性稍显不足。这次不得不让雷恩德斯打后腰，结果搞砸了，没能取得进球。我觉得维拉队马蒂·卡什那记反向射门简直干净利落，多纳鲁马完全愣在原地——你经常能看到他被这种球戏耍。

They lack a little bit of cent central midfield stability with Votri's injury and issues in that space. They had to play Reinders in the holding role this time, and and they couldn't manage it. They couldn't manage to get their goal. I thought the Villa goal from Matty Cash was unbelievably crisp finish reverse against Donnarumma. You'd often see that him beating there just standing there.

所以没错，足球总会爆出这种赛果。我认为英超正在趋于平衡，特别是那些没有欧战任务的球队——虽然维拉有欧战，所以他们这场胜利更了不起，毕竟备战时间更少。这种情况时有发生，对吧？我们得学会接受。我确实认为利物浦要解决这个问题会很头疼。

And so, yeah, football will throw these results up, and I do think there's a leveling out in the Premier League, particularly particularly from teams who are outside of Europe, but although Villar are in Europe, so that's a great result for them because they had less preparation time. And it happens. Right? So we just have to we have to roll with it. I do I do, you know, I do think Liverpool will have a problem with fixing this.

我觉得这不只是失去一代巨星那么简单，而是结构性问题。我认为他们的引援目标缺乏明确性，整套操作让人看不懂。而曼城呢？他们拥有世界级门将、金球级中场和不可思议的中锋。

I don't just think it's, about losing a generational player. I think it's structural. I think it's I think it's lack of clarity in what they're trying to achieve with their signing. It doesn't add up in our minds. And City, I think they've got they've got a generational goalkeeper, Ballon d'Or center mid, and an unbelievable center forward.

所以只要这些核心球员健康，他们随时能做出其他球队做不到的事情。懂吗？他们就在那儿严阵以待。至于阿森纳，我觉得我们还没展现真正实力——因为目前我们有三大攻击手缺阵，加上热苏斯就是四个了。

So at any point in time when they're all healthy, they can do things that no one else can do. Right? So so they are there ready and waiting. And and Arsenal, I feel that though we haven't shown our true face yet, because this moment in time, we have three major attackers out. You could Jay Zoos makes it four.

我认为我们正在充分利用现有的进攻人才，而且外界其实并不真正了解我们。所以我们被贴上了防守型球队的标签，40%的进球都来自定位球预期进球值。对吧？我觉得目前一切都在成型中。关键问题是——为什么会这样？

And I think we're making do with our attacking talent, and we and no one has really seen us. So we get labeled as a defensive team that has got 40 odd percent of our goals through XG of through set pieces. Right? So I do think it's it's all formulating at the moment. And I do think what's really key is why this is happening.

我知道我们稍后会讨论这个。为什么会出现这些发展趋势？我们看到的比赛是怎么回事？该怪谁呢？猜猜看，赔率二比一的热门人选，多半是阿森纳。

I know we talk about this later. Why these things are developing, the games that we're seeing? Who are gonna blame for it? Guess shock to two to one favorite. It's gonna be arse more.

这该怪谁呢？比赛中到底发生了什么？我觉得这正是我脑海中盘旋的讨论话题。今早我几乎无法思考其他事情。但没错艾略特，此刻我们正乘着几场1-0胜利的浪潮，这彻底改变了我们对俱乐部的感受。

Who are gonna blame for it? And what's happening in the game? I think it's that that's the discussion that's in my mind. I can barely think of anything else this morning. But, yeah, at this moment in time, Elliot, we are riding the waves of a couple of one nil victories that completely change how we feel about the club.

而去年对阵阿森纳的一胜一平，最近两场他们两次战平。懂我意思吗？是的，这就是区别。今天我们坐在这里抽着雪茄。

And at a year and a 14 draw arsenal last season, they won both draws the last two games. You know? And Yeah. That's the difference. We're sitting here today with a cigar on.

这就是区别所在。

That's the difference.

没错，这很公平。我是说，还有其他比赛，比如在安菲尔德，如果那个30码任意球没进，我们现在对前景会更乐观。听着，我认为我们是联赛最强的球队。

Yep. That's fair. I mean, I I think there are other games too, like, at Anfield where if a 30 yard free kick doesn't go in, we're feeling even better about our chances right now. Look. I I think we're the best team in the league.

得出这个结论有很多依据，但我觉得我们是最全面的。我们又不是没有大比分碾压对手的比赛。我们有，对吧？我们也有过取得大比分领先后主动放慢节奏的比赛。

And there are lot of ways you can get to that conclusion, but I think we are the most complete. It's not like we haven't had games where we blow the doors off teams. We have. Right? We've also had games where we get a big lead, and we slow the game down.

我们轻松取胜。事实是很少有球队敢真正与我们对抗。这支水晶宫队可是英超预期进球数榜首，他们位居第一。而这场比赛他们的预期进球只有0.5。

And we win it at a canter. The fact of the matter is teams don't come to play us very much. This is a Crystal Palace team that leads the Premier League in expected goals. They are top. They had point five XG in this game.

0.5。但知道最让我震惊的是什么吗？真正暴露对手消极态度的数据是：水晶宫不仅是预期进球榜首，更是落后状态下预期进球最多的球队——这意味着他们通常会在比分落后时全力反扑。

Point five. But you know what really stands out to me? The thing that I think really indicates how little teams are are coming for us. Crystal Palace not only leads the league in XG. They lead the league in XG from a trailing game state, meaning that when they're behind, they really push the pedal.

本场下半场他们落后时，四次射门仅贡献0.3预期进球。明白吗？不仅全场仅0.5，就连必须放手一搏的落后阶段也无力反扑。正因对手无法对我们施压，只要我们先得分就能掌控局面——我们根本不需要持续强攻，因为瓦解对手攻势的能力实在太出色了。

In the second half of this game, when they were trailing, they had four shots worth point three expected goals. Okay? So not only did they only have point five in the whole game, but when trailing, when they needed to kind of go for it, they still couldn't really go for it. And because teams can't go for it against us, if we get a goal, we can hold teams at arm's length a bit. We don't need to keep pushing the pedal because we are so good at nullifying the opposition.

更不用说（虽然你提到了这点），蒂姆，我不介意人们总强调阿森纳依赖定位球得分。确实如此。但我们定位球次数并未增加，只是效率更高了。

Not to mention, and you referenced this, but, Tim, I'm fine with people wanting to say, oh, Arsenal are doing a lot through set pieces. It's true. We are. We're not taking more set pieces. We're just better at them.

获得大量角球和任意球的原因在于：我们的进攻三区触球数和禁区触球数都是联赛第一。这些数据自然会带来更多定位球机会。但被所有人忽视的关键是——我们还是在缺少多名能改变进攻构建方式的核心球员情况下做到的。比如马丁·厄德高几乎缺席了整个赛季。

And one reason you get corners and free kicks is because you have the most final third touches, and you have the most penalty box touches. Right? Those kind of things lead to more corners and set pieces. But what I don't hear invoked in this conversation, but what I think is relevant, and then we'll get into the details of the game, is that we're doing this without a lot of talent that could also help influence the way we build play and attack. We have played almost the entire season without Martin Odegaard.

我们几乎整个赛季都没有凯·哈弗茨。萨卡缺席期间展现影响力的诺尼·马杜埃凯也伤了——要知道我们最佳球员布卡约·萨卡缺阵了半个赛季。现在我们又失去了马杜埃凯。明白吗？我们始终缺少那些能改变进攻体系的关键球员。

We played the we played almost the entire season without Kai Havertz. Noni Medueke who was showing real influence when Saka was out because we played half of this season without our best player, Bikai Saka. Now we're without that player, Noni Medueke. Right? We're playing without other players that I think are influential for how we can build play and do things in attack.

但这场比赛我们是在没有厄德高、哈弗茨、萨卡、萨利巴、卡菲里、德克兰·赖斯、纳尼·马杜埃凯的情况下完成的。这不仅意味着我们替补席缺乏进攻后手，更连熟悉体系的轮换球员都派不上——总有人说利物浦或曼城还在磨合新援，但我们的处境呢？

But we finished this game without Odegaard, Kai, Saka, Saliba, Califuri, Declan Rice, Nani Madueke. Right? So it's not just we can't power up maybe as much as we might from the bench from an attacking standpoint. We also can't put the players on who are familiar because what you know, I hear a lot of, well, Liverpool are still trying to integrate new pieces or City are trying to integrate new pieces. Well, yeah, you know what?

阿森纳本赛季初或许更应该依赖已经融入球队的凯·哈弗茨、马丁·厄德高和布卡约·萨卡。但现实是，我们不得不以右路的纳尼、中场的埃兹和维克托·约克拉斯开始新赛季——无论你如何看待约克拉斯，他被迫每场都首发只因我们缺少凯。这不仅是因为伤病削弱了进攻火力，更在于我们被迫启用大量不够熟悉的球员。就像我说的，这场比赛我们长时间用埃兹替代厄德高，约克拉斯替代凯，马斯卡拉替代萨利巴。

Arsenal might have been better starting this season really relying on Kai Havertz who's already integrated and Martino Degaard who's already integrated and Bukayo Sack who's already integrated. But instead, we had to start the season with Nani off the right and Eze in the middle and Victor Yokrash, who whatever you think of him, he's had to come in and play every single game because we have no Kai. So it's not just the number of injuries that has removed additional attacking capacity. It's the fact that we are being forced to play with a lot of players who are not as familiar. Like I said, we finished this game with, you know, or played a lot of this game with Eze in instead of Otogard and Yokrase in instead of Kai and Mascara in instead of Saliba.

对吧？这同样会产生影响。所以我快速问一句，然后我们进入比赛讨论——在什么情况下，我们引以为豪的阵容深度会开始令人担忧？因为在我看来，当伤病达到某种程度时，阵容深度也将无能为力。

Right? So that's gonna have an influence too. So I'll ask you this just quickly, then we'll get into the game. At what point is all of this celebrating our squad depth going to start to be still a little worrying? Because in my mind, there is a level of injury concern where your squad depth can't save you.

没错。如果连续多场缺少萨卡、赖斯、厄德高、萨利巴和凯这个级别的球员——正如你所说，撑过一两场可以，但连续五六七场就会原形毕露。

Right? If you play too many games without Saka and Rice and Odegaard and Saliba and Kai and and, you know, that caliber of quality. You've made this point. You can get by a game. You can get by two games, but over a run of five, six, seven games that catches up with you.

显然，球员健康当然越多越好。但你怎么看待目前阵容深度帮我们渡过难关的表现？以及这场可能新增的伤员会带来多大影响？

So, you know, obviously obviously, we'd be better for more fit than less fit. But how are you feeling about the way that our depth is getting us over the line in these games right now and and, you know, the extent to which we we may have just lost additional players in this game?

是的，比赛尾声明显变得混乱。我们没有德克兰·赖斯，没有萨利巴。

Yeah. Yeah. And you could tell by the end, was scrappy. Right? We didn't have Declan Rice, didn't have Saliba.

萨卡也令人沮丧——刚踢两场世界级比赛就生病了，所以这场没看到他最佳状态。厄德高和哈弗茨同时缺席确实影响了流畅度，我们至少需要其中一人来维持技术水准。终场时我看着特罗萨德、约克拉斯和马丁尼利组成的前场三叉戟，创造力实在有限。

Either Saka is so frustrating, has two worldy games, and then he's unwell. So we didn't really see the best of him in this game. I think for our fluency, having both Erdegaard and Havertz missing is is a a wrinkle. For us, I think we kind of always need one of those players at least just for the the technical level because I was kind of looking at it at the end, and I was like, that's Trossard, Jocharrez, Martinelli, front three. That's not hugely creative.

这些球员大多更倾向于终结进攻。埃兹也是这类——他不是高触球型球员。整体平衡有些失调，所以最后阶段我们明智地选择了保住比分：踢角球区、拖延时间等等。这些必要手段执行得恰到好处，我乐见其成。

That's a lot of players who kinda wanna get on the end of things. I I think Ezra's like that as well. He's not a high touch player. It was a bit you know, the balance is slightly off there, and you can see that, and rightly, by the way, we protected the result at the end. It was, you know, kicking for the corners, you know, trying to waste a bit of time and all of that, all all stuff that you have to do, and I'm, you know, delighted to see done at the right time, but we protected the result at the end.

原因在于我们的体能状况有些欠佳。但我不太确定自己有多担心无法在运动战中创造足够机会，因为我认为定位球不可能每次都救场，而我们确实在运动战中创造的机会不多。我理解其中的原因。不过在国际比赛日结束、这一阶段比赛开始前，我曾撰文提到几个疑问，其中之一就是我们会想念厄德高。

And and the reason for that is because we're a bit ragged in terms of fitness. But I I do think like, I I don't I don't know how concerned I am in terms of not creating enough from open play because I do think there comes a point where a set piece isn't gonna dig you out every time, and we didn't create a lot from open play. I understand the reasons why. But, I wrote a piece just before the beginning of this block at the end of the international break kind of saying, you know, there are a few questions I have. And one of them was, like, we I I said we're gonna miss Odegaard.

我们确实会想念他。虽然大家都在庆祝阵容深度，也有很多人认为他无足轻重。但我认为在这六七场比赛中，我们会想念他和他带来的贡献。因为埃泽带来的东西并不完全相同——埃泽就像一把双刃剑。

We are gonna miss him. I know, you know, we're celebrating our squad depth, and a lot of people have written him off as well. But I was like, over this block of six, seven games, we are going to miss him, and we're going to miss what he brings. Because what Eze brings is not quite the same. But Eze, like, giveth and taketh away.

对吧？我们的进攻流畅度不如从前，但他却能倒钩破门。这就是他的特点。虽然马丁·厄德高可能进不了那种球，但如果有他在场，我们或许能创造更多机会。所以目前我们的整体运转看起来并不特别流畅。

Right? I don't think we had as much fluency, but then he scissor kicks the ball into the net because Mhmm. That's what he does. I don't think Martin Odegaard had scored that goal, but I think if Odegaard had been playing, maybe we create a little bit more and and whatnot. So I I don't think we look hugely fluent at the moment.

我觉得这场比赛开局有些松散，像对富勒姆时那样在某些区域频频丢球。可能是我在自我保护，但我并不认为我们能轻松称霸联赛。虽然目前我们看起来是联赛最佳球队，但有些方面让我对中期可持续性存疑。我们确实找到了赢球方法，但这种方式终究有限。真正需要的是流畅掌控比赛、创造大量机会。

I thought we were slightly sloppy at the start of this game, a bit like Fulham, a few giveaways in certain areas. So I I'm personally maybe I'm just protecting myself, but I'm not sitting here going, oh, we're gonna walk this league where, you know, I do think we look like the best team in the league at the moment, but there are there are things that I I slightly question the sustainability of medium term. And, yeah, like, We got it done. We found a way to win and all of that, but it it does feel a little bit like that only takes you so far. What you really need is to be fluent, dominant, creating lots of chances.

否则的话，进攻源泉迟早会枯竭。不过现阶段这样也完全可以接受。

Otherwise, I I kinda think it does dry up otherwise. Yeah. And, like, that that's totally fine.

顺便说，我们本赛季有过3-0、4-0和5-0的大胜。当对手留出空间时，我们完全有能力抓住机会。但克莱德，这就是本场比赛的切入点——对手也会布置战术。我们在对阵曼城时就见识过了。

We we do, by the way, have a three nil victory, four nil victory, and five nil victory on our CV this season. I think when there's space or when teams open up a little bit, we are certainly capable of taking advantage of that. But this is where I think you get an access point to this game, Clyde. The other team gets to do tactics too. We saw in the city game.

哦，都说曼城有玻璃下巴容易击倒，但当他们排出11人退守禁区时——就像对我们做的那样——就另当别论了。利物浦的防守确实存在漏洞。

Oh, city have, you know, a a glass jaw. You can hit them. You can count well. You can, but not when they put 11 men in their own box, which they did against us. Liverpool, they're vulnerable defensively.

冲他们去。嗯，没错，但他们是怎么对付我们的？他们龟缩防守。而水晶宫队，在我看来，阵型非常紧凑，很好地拉开了场地宽度，明白吗，就是通过拉开边路，当我们把球传给萨卡和廷伯这样的球员时，那边就形成了三对二的局面。他们的战术布置确实很好地限制了我们，我们在推进球权时遇到了很大困难。

Go for them. Well, yeah, except how did they play us? They turtled. And Palace, I thought, were wonderfully compact, really good stretching the pitch, you know, wide so that when we did get the ball to players like Saka and Timber, it was three v twos out there. They they were set up really well to nullify us, and we had a lot of trouble progressing the ball.

我觉得比赛早期的关键点——有趣的是，无论是面对富勒姆还是水晶宫——都是那些非受迫性失误，那些轻易丢球。我印象特别深刻的是祖比的一些失误。祖比门迪一反常态地表现松散，而水晶宫制造的威胁正是来自这些失误。所以你想聊聊水晶宫的阵型布置吗？他们是如何限制我们的球权推进，让我们难以找到突破口将他们压回去的？

And I think the the story of the game early on, interestingly, both against Fulham and against Palace were the unforced errors, the giveaways. The one that sticks out in my mind is the some Zubi giveaways. Zubamendi was uncharacteristically loose, and and what threat Palace had came from those giveaways. So you wanna talk a little bit about how Palace set up and the way that they were able to kinda nullify our ball progression and make it difficult for us to find the ways to push them back?

对。大多数时候他们开场采用541阵型。嗯。但他们其实伺机快速反击，同时观察我们的打法。当我们的球员拉边时，他们会试图将我们挤压到边路区域，等待横向传球到中路时再突然上抢。

Yeah. So most of the time, they're in a five four one to start the game. And Mhmm. But they were looking to spring, and they were watching us play. And then when he went out to the wide areas, they would try to crush us into those areas, wait for a lateral pass to come across the middle, and then jump.

然后从那个位置起跳尝试快速反击。实际上我们挺走运的，因为他们右翼卫穆尼奥斯——这个表现最出色的球员之一——已经踢了很多比赛，体力不支。要是正常状态，他早就高速插上增加前场进攻人数了。我觉得我们对他那侧的斜线传球处理得很好，凯·菲奥里在这方面表现得特别出色。

And then jump from there on and try to spring. Now we were quite lucky actually because one of their best players, Munoz, on the the right wing back, he's played a lot of football, he was fatigued. On a normal day, he'd have been flying up to make those numbers higher in the top end of the pitch. I thought we managed those diagonals to him really well. Kai Fiori was excellent at managing those.

比赛中的小细节。开场五分钟内，我记得萨卡在阿尔特塔面前把球踢出了右边线。应该是你朋友——那个中场埃利奥特把球捅走了，然后球到了梅尔泰塔脚下。然后——

Little details in the game. So within the first five minutes, we I think, Saka played the ball off the right hand touchline in front of Arteta. I think, your mate, Elliott, the center midfielder nicked it. And it goes into into Merteta. And

顺便说下，你直接叫他亚当·莫顿就行。嗯。

You you could just call him Adam Morton, by the way. Yeah.

就叫他我的

Just call him my

我 我确实 我一时想不起他的名字了。

I I literally I I lost his name for a name for a second there.

是啊 我 我确实喜欢这个球员，虽然我觉得他在威士忌上表现不佳。

So Yeah. I I do like the player, although I thought he was outclassed on Whiskey.

这就告诉你，伙计，比赛有两面性。对吧？嗯哼。他控球时和无球时都...无球时都...

It just goes to show you, mate. It's two sides of the game. Right? So Mhmm. He's on the ball and off the ball and off the ball.

他大部分时间都在梦游。对吧？所以基本上，他把球传进去，他们得到...我们得到一次封盖射门。加布里埃尔出现在这里，然后我盯着他的比赛看进球。他们很聪明。

He was asleep for most of the game. Right? So so, basically, he drops it inside, and they get we get, like, a block shot. Gabriel gets here, and then I'm looking his game for the goal. They're clever.

确实。他们保持阵型，等待横传。就像上赛季的埃弗顿，蒂姆，他们刚上场时状态正佳，比赛类型非常相似。那场比赛我们稍后再谈，看看结果如何，代表什么意义。

They are. They're sitting in their shape. They're waiting for a square pass. Much like Everton, Tim, last season when they came in fresh, very similar type game. I think that game we'll talk about a game later, what it's done, what what it represents.

我当时想，哦，现在要怎么办？下一阶段，德克兰·赖斯回撤到中卫之间。然后祖布曼尼也回撤到中卫位置。我们控球三分钟。他们碰不到球，我们完成了一次射门。

And I thought, oh, what are gonna do now? The next phase of play, Declan Rice drops into between the center backs. And then Zubmani drops to the center backs. And we had the ball for three minutes. They don't touch it, and we get a shot off.

这就像对某个瞬间的即时反应。嗯哼。不是那种'再来一次'的情况。我们长传。他却说'不'。

It's like immediate reaction to a moment. Mhmm. It's not like we go again. We go long. He's like, no.

不，我们有30次传球机会，伙计。你不会看到的，我们会立即阻止你并将球推进到前场。我们让本和赖斯轮流回撤接应。他们俩同时参与了防守。

No. We're have 30 passes, mate. You ain't gonna see it, and we're gonna discourage you immediately and progress the ball up the pitch. And we dropped to Ben and Rice to to turns to drop in. They were both in at the same time.

边后卫压得很靠前。砰的一下传到右侧，我们就此展开攻势。我们获得了一次射门机会，又赢得了一个角球。我当时就在想，这支球队很聪明。

Fullback's high. Bang. Out to the right side, and off we go. We get a shot, get get a corner. And I'm thinking, this team is wise.

他们对对手了如指掌。你指出那几次停顿式传球很准确，但为什么？因为对方在逼抢我们。他们知道何时启动压迫，知道何时出击。

It's wise to the team they're playing against. Now you're absolutely right to highlight a couple of stoppie passes, but why? Because they pressed us. They knew when to trigger. They knew when to go.

我们也在用同样方式对付他们。每次球传到边翼卫脚下，我们就快速压上逼他们回传。懂吗？逼他们回传重组，再横传转移。当他们横传时，水晶宫能断球发动反击吗？

And we were doing the same to them. Every time it went to a wingback, we rushed up to send them backwards. You know? Rushed up to send them backwards to recycle, to go square. When they go square, can Palace nick it and then transition?

因为他们的前锋梅特塔是个野兽，对吧？所以他们一直在寻找反击机会。这就是现代足球。位置战术是双向的，埃拉。

Because the guy up front, Mettetta, is a beast. Right? And so they were looking to transition. So this is the modern game. Positional positional play works two ways, Ella.

既服务于进攻方，也服务于防守方的阵型保持和纪律性。我们经常讨论定位球战术。在我看来，比赛中最大的难题是中低位防守阵型，因为这迫使你采用另一种足球风格。面对中低位防守怎么办？你必须破解它。

It works for the attacking team, but also for the defensive team and what shape they can hold and the discipline. And we talked about set pieces a lot. For me, the biggest problem in the game is the blocks, is the mid and low blocks, because that's forcing another style of football to Yeah. What do you do with mid and low blocks? You have to break them.

如何破解？你可以通过插入球员、长传制造混乱局面——也就是二点球争夺战，然后快速转入开放场地的进攻。但水晶宫做得很好，他们始终没有阵型脱节，也没有盲目上抢。

How can you break them? How can you extract space by putting people in and going longer and creating uncontrolled passes of play, which is second ball football, and then trying to go quickly into broken field. But Palace were good. They never they never stretched out. They didn't jump out.

他们尽可能长时间保持阵型。然后比赛就变成了那种心理博弈，你觉得谁会先眨眼？谁会先冒险？每次我们尝试冒险，他们就能抓住机会，因为我们其实很擅长阻止这类情况。

They kept their shape for as long as possible. And there appeared to that game where you thought, mate, who's gonna who's gonna blink? Who's gonna blink? Who's gonna actually take a risk? And every time we did, they nicked it, got a half chance because we're really good at stopping those.

你能看出球员们为何成功，对吧？因为我们的队伍没有加布里埃尔。没有他在那里拦截那些射门。明白吗？结果就是这样。

You can see how players are successful, can't you? Because our teams don't have Gabriel. They don't have him there stopping those shots. You know? And that's what happened.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以我认为这真实反映了现代足球的现状。最终，当两支战术纪律严明的球队相遇，彼此都通过出色的分析师用笔记本电脑研究对方的传球路线——我们能解读他们的传球，他们也能解读我们的。我们知道何时施压，何时发起进攻。当两支这样的球队对决时，还剩下什么？

So I think it was a real instruction of where the modern game is. Now in the end, when you have two positional teams that are highly disciplined and understand the patterns of play of each other because they've got great analysts on laptops who read our passes, and we can read their passes. We know when to press. We know when to trigger off them. When you have two teams like that, what's left?

一个无法预料的瞬间，任何教练都无法准备的时刻。比赛变成空中球的争夺，球会落在哪里没有教练能预测。关键在于你如何反应，以及在第二波进攻中如何应对——正是这点决定了比赛。现代足球没有定位球问题，它有的是破密集防守难题。

An uncontrolled moment that no one can coach for. It becomes a competing in the with a ball in the air, and the ball drops when no coach can tell you where it's gonna drop. It's about your reaction to that and what you do in the second phase of play, and that decided the game. Modern football doesn't have a set piece problem. It has a a low block problem.

不仅是阿森纳面对密集防守束手无策。自从穆里尼奥带领球队对阵巴萨时采用这种战术，这就成了普遍难题。他向所有人展示了这种防守方式的可能性。随着联赛身体对抗强度增加，各队执行得越来越好。现在我们看到的足球就是这种战术的副产品，以及如何破解它。

And it's not just Arsenal that struggle for low blocks. It's it's been a it's a it's it's been an issue since Mourinho took it in a team to Barcelona. And he told everybody, this is how you can defend if you want to. And people are getting better and better at it with increased physicality in the league. And so now we're seeing football, which is the byproducts of that and how you overcome that.

当人们开始通过定位球狂轰滥炸得分时，局面又会再次转变。

And it will turn again when when people keep chucking loads of goals in the net for for set pieces, then it will turn again.

我想说的是，我们团队中的集体主义精神，当丢球后全队迅速回防重整阵型的方式真是令人赞叹，因为有些失误本可能导致严重后果。克莱夫，能占用你一分钟吗？然后蒂姆，我想谈谈埃兹。但看起来梅特塔似乎专门针对萨利巴，我不明白他为何中场被换下，目前还没有相关消息更新。

The I do wanna say that the collectivism in our group, the the way the group collectively flows back to get into shape when they do lose the ball is so great to see, though, because some of those giveaways could have led to something. Can stay with you for one second, Clive? And then, Tim, I wanna talk Eze for a minute. But it did seem like Metteta was targeting Saliba, and I don't know why he came off at halftime. I don't think we've had an update on that.

萨利巴的表现并非最稳健。如果要挑刺的话，可以说那些长传直线球有时让他难以应对。他总想预判落点调整站位。而梅特塔非常聪明，他会等萨利巴试图调整身位接球时，突然绕前利用身体优势争抢第一第二落点。加比本场表现惊艳，完美化解了所有危机。

It wasn't the most assured performance from Saliba. I guess if I had to pick on him, you could say that sometimes the long straight balls have given Saliba problems. Sometimes he wants to read it and position his body. And Mettetta was really clever, I think, waiting for Saliba to try to to position his body to collect the ball and then getting around him and and using his strength to kinda win those first and second balls. Gabby was fantastic in this game, obviously, and cleaned everything up.

但你是否感觉到萨利巴可能状态不佳？就像我说的，目前还不清楚他中场被换下的原因，不过他与梅特塔对抗时确实出现了几次险情。

But did did you get a sense that maybe something wasn't fully right with Saliba? We we like I said, I don't think we have an update on why he came off at halftime, but there were a few dodgy moments with with Mettet on Salinas.

我不确定是否能说清楚...有几个瞬间，但我记得特别是我这边有一次，我原以为他能控制住球，结果梅特塔突然伸脚绕前截走了。

I don't I don't know if I can. There's a few, but I remember I remember one. It's at my end. I remember thinking, oh, he's got that. And suddenly Mettet's legs came around the corner, and he and he didn't have it.

对吧？所以

Right? So

第九分钟。是的。

Ninth minute. Yeah.

而且我不...

And I don't

就在那时，Timber过来清理了现场，他的动作很重。但他确实清理干净了。

And that that was the one where Timber came around and cleaned it up, then his touch was heavy. But he's clean up.

我想

I think

那也是他受伤的地方。我想他实际上是与Gabriel相撞了。我认为就是那里

that's where he gets the injury as well. I think he actually collides with Gabriel. I think that's where

哦，有意思。好的。

Oh, interesting. Okay.

你知道吗，Tim？我现在有话要说，因为今早我重看了比赛的前后各15分钟来感受比赛氛围。从那一刻起，你能看出他开始有点跛行。所以我在想，我们真的很幸运有Gabriel、Timber和Carre Fury，因为那个家伙Matteo体型太庞大了。

You know what, Tim? Words on now because I rewatched the first fifteen minutes this morning and the last fifteen minutes to get a feeling of the game. And you can see from that moment, he started to limp around a little bit. And so and I just think, well, you know what? We're lucky we've got Gabriel and Timber and Carre Fury, because that bloke is massive, Matteo.

他确实非常魁梧。那些小伙子们冲着他去，真的冲着他去。你能看出他对其他防线造成了实质性的伤害。Stiba不仅块头大，而且力量十足。

He is absolutely massive. And those boys, they go for him. They go for him. And you can see how he has real damage against other defenses. Now Stiba had a you you need to Stiba's not just big, but he's powerful.

所以你需要用他的体重来让对手绕开他。明白我的意思吗？无论你是否赢得对抗，没人能直接从他身上冲过去。他可能会漏掉一个球，但没人能直线突破他。

So you need his weight to to allow people to get around him. Do you see what I mean? So whether you win it or you don't do it, no one's running straight through him. You know? He may lose a bubble of a ball, but no one's running straight through him.

就在他粗暴对抗的时候，我告诉你，加布里埃尔和廷伯都在说，没错，你或许能过他，但他过不了我们。明白吗？这就是他们全队的集体态度。我觉得他们防守他做得都很出色。

And while he's mass manhandling him, I tell you what, Gabriel and Timber are saying, yeah. Well, you might get past him, but he ain't getting past us. You know? And that's the collective view of them all. I thought they were all excellent to manage him.

我不会每次萨利巴丢掉对抗都担心，因为他总会偶尔失手。如果非要输一次，那就输给哈兰德或这家伙吧，毕竟他们身体素质太惊人了。这就是比赛的一部分，关键是你如何应对，这场我们做得很好。

I don't I'm not gonna worry every time Seaba loses a challenge because he will lose the odd one. And and if you're gonna lose one, make it be against the Haaland or this guy because they are physically unbelievable. You know? So, and that's just part of the game. It's what you do around that, and we did that really well in this game.

我不知道巴西夏天能否赢得世界杯，这或许会改变局面。但当我们本赛季赢得联赛和欧战双冠时，这场比赛让我真正意识到——加布很可能赢得金球奖。他在我们需要进球的比赛中总能破门，这场还有个未被记功的助攻，简直是犯罪。

I don't know if Brazil's gonna win the World Cup in the summer, and that may change this. But when we win the league and European double this season, this was the game that really occurred to me. Gabby's probably gonna win the Ballon d'Or. I mean, he scores goals in the games where we need him to score goals. He's he gets an assist that's not credited as an assist in this game, which is an absolute crime.

虽然他通常不像萨利巴那样是防线的技术核心，但这场比赛他的触球数是全队最多。20号祖比门迪那次糟糕丢球，传给卡利富里的短传失误，做了最不该做的事——中场横传力道不足，被对方断下，我记得是伊斯梅尔·萨尔。

But he he's not normally the technical leader of our defense in the way that Saliba is, but in this game, he had the most touches of any arsenal player. The 20 Zubamendi gives the ball away poorly, it's just a he short sells a pass, I think, to Califuri, and he does the thing you should never do. Right? Straight ball, lateral ball across the midfield, underweight. They pick it up, and I think it's Ismael Saar.

加布及时补位完成完美封堵，身体站位精准，双臂背在身后，伸腿拦截。他主动承担了盯防梅特塔的责任，后来对方左路突破回传时，又是他及时出现让梅特塔无法起脚。

And and Gabby just comes across and blocks it beautifully. Positions his body, arms behind his back, sticks his leg out, blocks it. Right? He sort of took over the responsibility of of stopping Mettetta, and there was a moment later in the game where they did get down the left hand side, and there was a cutback to Mettetta. And Gabby gets there on time so that Mettetta can't get the shot off.

那次防守发生在下半场尾声。他本赛季的定位球得分显然很关键，这场也策划了导致进球的定位球。但我觉得这场比赛全面展现了他多么全能，蒂姆。

It was late in the game too. I think it was later in the second half. I think his his goals from set pieces have obviously been a a big part of our season. And, he's influential in a set piece that leads to the goal in this game. But I thought this was a great game to sort of celebrate the totality of his game, how complete it is, Tim.

我曾认为他是更莽撞的后卫，萨利巴才是稳定军心的那个。但现在加布找到了绝佳平衡——该上抢时果断出击，防守时又极有章法。整场比赛他都必须指挥马斯卡拉（虽然马斯卡拉也不太需要指挥）。

I used to think of him as the more helter skelter defender and Saliva as the the one who was a little calmer and settled everything down. But Gaby has found a wonderful balance now between flying in when flying in what's called is what what's called for, but he feels very under control in the way he plays defensively. And he has to marshal Mascara through the rest of that game. Right? Not that Mascara needs much.

他本身就是一位才华横溢的球员。但对我来说，这场比赛真正展现了他的领导力。我们还不必讨论金球奖的事，可能还为时过早。但你同意这场比赛堪称加比全能表现的最佳广告吗？

He's a wonderfully talented player himself. But his leadership really showed up in this game for me. So we don't have to talk about the Ballon d'Or yet. Might be a little early for that. But did did did you agree that this was a sort of a great advertisement for Gabby's all around game?

没错。想想他作为后卫的身体对抗强度，却很少吃黄牌对吧？也不常犯规或类似情况。你看不到他大幅滑铲，全是贴身紧逼、身体对抗，就像我们讨论的那个例子中掩护队友那样——我认为萨利巴就是在封堵传中时受伤的，他飞身挡球差点把头撞在门柱上试图得分。

Yeah. When you think about how physical he is as a defender and doesn't get many yellow cards, does he? Doesn't give away a lot of fouls or anything like that. You don't see big sliding tackles. It's all touch tight, muscling people, you know, covering his partner as he did in the example we talked about, which is where I think Saliba picks up the knock, you know, throwing himself into the the path of a cross, nearly nearly takes his head off on the post trying to score.

归根结底，他骨子里有种勇气，既是身体上的也是心理上的勇气——你休想突破我。我会把头伸到你不敢伸的地方，我会把脚放到你不敢放的位置。他就是那种异常勇敢的球员。我觉得你说得对。

At the end, he's just he's got a a bravery about him, both physical and psychological bravery of just, you are not getting past me. And I will I will put my head where you won't. I will put my boot where you won't. And it's just he's he's just, like, terrifically kind of brave player. And and I think you're right.

我认为这也是大量比赛带来的良性结果，他现在处于绝佳节奏中，就像你说的那样，真正达到了火与冰之间的平衡状态

I think he's I think just also from a a kind of a nice consequence of just playing so much, he's just in such a good rhythm that he has that you know, he really has that, like you said, that line kind of between fire and ice

嗯。

Mhmm.

与此同时，所有那些我们当初指出的缺点——其实都很微小，比如传球什么的——现在完全不算缺点了。知道吗？这是个真正不断自我完善的球员，他已经达到了那种球员偶尔会进入的澄明境界——当他们成为核心，成为球队领袖之一时。

At the same time. And and all the things, all the kind of which I think were quite small flaws, but some of the flaws when we picked him up, like passing, for example, like, not a flaw at all anymore. You know? This is a guy who's who's really, really worked on himself, and he's he's he's just come to that that point of serenity, I think, a player gets sometimes when they they are the pick. They are one of the leaders of the team.

他每周都出场，在攻防每个阶段都至关重要。这就是个完全进入状态的球员。上赛季末我们极度想念他，这点其实被低估了——当然可以理解，毕竟当时太多球员受伤了。

They play every week. They're very important in every phase of play. And this this just looks like a player who's who's just totally and utterly in that rhythm. Someone we missed massively at the end of last season as well. I think that was really underplayed, kind of understandably, because we lost so many players to injury.

虽然很难单独挑出一件事，但我觉得失去他参加欧冠半决赛之类的比赛确实...你知道，就像对巴黎圣日耳曼那场的长传，我真希望他能在一两个那种时刻出现在禁区。简单说吧，埃利奥特，我年纪太大已经谈不上最喜欢的球员了，但如果要说这个‘项目’里我最欣赏的，那绝对是加布里埃尔。他真的体现了这支球队所有我热爱的特质，以及那些我们大约十年前失去的东西。

It was kinda difficult to isolate one, but I think losing him for, like, Champions League semifinal and all that was was you know, I match like, those long throws against PSG, you know, I I'd have I'd have liked him in the area for one or two of those. But Yeah. Just I'd say very simply, Elliot, I'm I'm I'm too old really to have favorite players, but, like, if I think of my favorite player in this, like, quote, unquote, project, it's Gabriel. It really is. I just think he he epitomizes everything I I really like about this team and everything I think we lost a decade or so ago.

说得太好了。这支球队的任何凝聚力，我觉得都是从加比开始的。他就像是情感领袖，对队友怀有无限的热爱和热情。

Yeah. Really well said. And whatever togetherness there is in this team, I think it sort of starts with Gabby. He he feels like the emotional leader. He really has so much love and enthusiasm for his teammates.

他踢球时充满激情，但恰到好处。正因为他如此情绪化、体格如此强壮，人们往往低估了他的技术能力。这场比赛我们最精彩的时刻之一，就是莱奥回传给萨卡那次——虽然最终没能突破防守——而这次进攻始于加比一记越过防线的精妙挑传给莱奥。对吧？他这场比赛触球次数最多，传球也最多。

He he is he plays with a tremendous amount of emotion, but on the right side of the line. And I think because he's so emotional and so big and so physical, his technical quality is underestimated. But one of our best moments in this game is a Leo cutback to Saka where he just doesn't quite beat his man to it, and it starts with a beautifully chipped pass over the defense to Leo from Gabby. Right? He had the most touches in this game, the most passes in this game.

没有技术功底的人不可能单场完成89次传球和103次触球。他为球队牺牲了未来可能想要的孩子——那可是腹股沟与门柱的剧烈碰撞啊。我在即时反应里说过，如果需要，我很乐意捐献身体零件致敬加比。当然我的零件可能配不上他，但他尽管拿走我这点微薄奉献。

You don't have 89 passes and a 103 touches in a game if you don't have technical quality. And he sacrificed any future children he wanted to have for the team because that is a powerful collision of groin and post. And I said on the instant reaction, I'd be happy to give any of my bits in tribute to Gabby if he needed them. Not that I think they would be sufficient for him, but he could certainly he could certainly take what little I have to offer.

玩笑开过头了。

Jokes. There are too many jokes.

确实不少。阿森纳官方有时会发布集锦，你知道他整理了所有关键瞬间的链接供回看。他特意把加比撞门柱那个镜头放在最前面。

There's a lot of them. Yeah. Arsenal has too sometimes posts highlights. I you know, he has links to all the key key moments so you can watch him back. And the the one he said, Gabby's post hits the post was the one that he he put there.

我当时还想：这是哪段？哦对对就是那个！所以他今天表现真的太出色了。

And I was like, what is it? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's right. So, yeah, a a great performance from him.

现在我正穿着一件阿森纳10号球衣。这是多年来我第一次给自己买这种背后印有名字和号码的球衣。我通常不买这类球衣，但这次被'顺其自然'的氛围感染了。还有什么比球员对阵老东家进球更可预测的事吗？幸好埃迪和凯迪亚没这么做。

Now I am wearing an s a ten arsenal shirt. The first time I have gotten myself one of those shirts in many, many years. I don't buy shirts with names and numbers on the back, but I got caught up in the let it all work out thing. And is there anything more predictable than a player scoring against his former team? Thankfully, Eddie and Kedia didn't do that.

不过我觉得他有个亮眼的片段。当时沃顿有点走神——我个人一直不看好这名球员——埃兹从他身后断球。这就是像埃兹这类球员有趣的地方。

Although, I thought he had a bright cameo, by the way. But as I did, with a stunning hitch kick from the from the set piece, Wharton goes to sleep a little bit. Never rated that player personally. And Eze steals him behind. And this is the interesting thing with a player like Eze.

这里我们必须认清一点：他和厄德高是截然不同的球员。埃兹这类球员十次尝试可能错五次对五次，但其中两次能做出顶级发挥直接决定比赛。我们是强调控球的队伍，所以当球员不注重控球时就会显得焦虑。克莱夫，这场比赛前半段的关键就在于他确实能在空当接球推进，但也频繁丢球。

And this is where I think we have to remember. He and Odegaard are very, very different players. Because Eze is the kind of guy who's gonna get five out of 10 things wrong and five out of 10 things right, and two out of those 10 things are going to be something out of the absolute top drawer that can win you a game. We are a team that emphasizes control, and so I think we get quite antsy when you have a player who doesn't emphasize control. And, Clive, a big part of the early story of this game was as a being the player who did pop up in pockets and did progress the ball but also lost it.

我觉得你在中场休息时的现场语音分析很有见地。虽然很多人对埃兹的表现感到焦虑和批评，但他确实在主动承担进攻责任。他尝试很多但失误也多——或许因为我们习惯了厄德高不仅能推进还保持92%传球成功率且零失误。那么在进球前，该如何评估他这种既推进又丢失球权的影响力？

And I thought you did some really interesting analysis in your halftime voice note from the ground for the instant reaction because I was seeing a lot of anxiety and angst and critique on Eze's performance, but he was also taking the responsibility to try to get it forward. He tries a lot and loses more than maybe we're used to, and maybe it's because we don't appreciate Odegaard is just consistently excellent at not just progressing the ball, but doing it at 92% passing with with zero giveaways. So how do you evaluate before we get to the goal itself as his influence progressing it but also losing it?

没错。厄德高是节拍器型球员，触球频繁，他更像是把球'借'给你而非'给'你，总想回接以掌控比赛节奏。埃兹完全不同，他的跑动没那么积极。我欣赏他本场表现的原因在于：当对方防线密不透风时，他早期模仿厄德高风格右路扯动后突然内切。

Yes. Odegaard is a metronomic player, gets on the ball, lots of touches, and he lends you the ball, right, rather than kiss you the ball, and he wants it back so he can he can he can control the drumbeat of a game in all different areas of the pitch. Eze is not that right. He's he's less intense in his movement. The reason why I liked his performance in this game, in a game where there was no space, no nowhere to stand between the lines, He went outside of the block to the right hand side, Odegaard style early in the game, immediately got on his bike, ran inside.

他试图传给边路持球突进的萨卡时丢球，我认为这更多是配合生疏而非个人失误。有几次他们传球没默契，但第一次丢球根本原因是他内切速度太快导致接应点消失却依然选择传球。这种比赛对手纪律性极强，我们反而需要鼓励这种冒险——只有他能撕开防线。明白我的意思吗？

The fact he lost the ball trying to pass to Saka who was running along with his Lemzip in his hand, The I will I'd put that down to a lack of connection on that side rather than him giving the ball away. Because when those two can pass to each other and they weren't quite on the same wavelength on a couple of occasions, but the the root cause of the first giveaway when he burst inside was he was running too fast, and the and the the runs disappeared on him. So he played it anyway. I don't mind that because in this game, when they are so disciplined, you almost have to encourage it because he's gonna break it open. Do you see what I mean?

他是唯一能找到空当的人，是唯一能持球转身突破的球员。为什么要苛责他？没有这种尝试，我们根本打不开局面。

He's the one finding space. He's the one getting on the ball. He's the one we want on the ball turning around dribbling and carrying. So why are you gonna give him stick? Because without that, we're not gonna break this team open.

你明白我的意思吗？我当时在想，萨卡看起来状态不对。我觉得他本可以在中场休息时被换下。我原以为更多是家庭原因，没想到是生病导致的。

Do see I mean? And I'm thinking, well, Saka doesn't look right to me. I I thought he could have come off at halftime. I was worried it was more house related. I didn't realize it was illness related.

我当时想，应该把他换下。我们需要边路有活力，这就是我的想法。埃泽一直是我关注的重点。这场比赛他确实用表现鼓舞了我，因为在这支球队面前找到空档极其困难，而他却不断做到。

I'm thinking, get him off. We need energy in a wide area. That's what I was thinking. Eze was a focus on my mind. So in this game, actually, he really encouraged me in this performance because finding space against this team is really, really hard, and he keeps doing it.

他的方式有时就是像梅西那样站着不动。有时梅西会让比赛围绕他进行，然后突然走到某个位置，瞬间就出现在空档里。但这次是我们主动把球传给他，所以让他看起来很棒。当然，梅西在巴萨时只要出现在空档就肯定能接到球。

And the way he does it is sometimes just by standing still, Messi style. Sometimes Messi let the game go around him, and he would walk into a position. Suddenly, he's in a pocket of space. But we were giving it to him this time, so it makes him look good. Well, obviously, Messi's always gonna get the ball at Barbs Boner moment he's in space.

但我觉得在某些比赛中，我们没习惯他的踢法所以会绕过他。当他踢左路时，我们知道他的位置，就能找到他。他接球后重新组织进攻，所以我认为这是他表现最好的10号位比赛。

So but I think in some games, we've gone around him because we're not used to him yet. You know? So when he plays left, we know where he's gonna be. So we find him, you know, and he gets the ball and recycles it. So I thought this was his best 10 game for me.

轻松写意。毫无疑问的最佳10号位表现。我之前说过厄德高和右后卫、右中场的连线，现在更多是和若日尼奥配合。我们确实需要这种配合，不是吗？

Life easily. Easy best game 10 game. I think I said before that Odegaard links with the right back and right midfielder. It's a far more linking with Jokoretz. And, again, we need that, don't we?

因为若日尼奥控球不够流畅。需要有人靠近他接应，让他能快速出球。他可以牵制两个人，然后把球传出来。交给我就行，伙计。

Because Jokoretz is not smooth on the ball. We need somebody close to him so he can get it off him. He can pin two people. Get it off him. Give it to me, mate.

你已经完成你的任务了。中后卫们到处拉扯你的球衣，你倒在地上牵制住他们。现在把球给我，我就能组织下一波进攻。

You've done your work. The center backs are pulling your shirt all over the place. You you're on the floor. You're holding them down. Give me the ball now, and then I can create the next phase of play.

所以这是不同的。我的意思是，人们绝不能把厄德高所做的直接套用到埃泽在这支球队被要求的角色上。等等，当厄德高和哈弗茨回归时，联赛会有点麻烦。

And so it's it's different. And it's what I mean. People mustn't cut and paste what Odegaard does to what Eze's been asked to do in this team. Wait. When Odegaard comes back and Havertz comes back, the league's in a bit of trouble.

确实如此。会有点麻烦，因为我们的防守韧性已经突破天际。比赛的走势比我们历史上任何时期都更适合我们，你知道的，有他在的时候。还有厄德高，别忘了奥林匹亚科斯那场的表现，简直令人着迷。

It really is. It's in a bit of trouble because our defensive resolve has gone through the roof. The way the game has gone suits have us even more so than any other period in our in our history, you know, with him. And Odegaard, don't forget OlympiAca's performance. It was mesmeric.

这让我想起了没有他时我们缺失的东西。所以，是的，我觉得埃泽表现得真的很好。那个进球太精彩了，我都没庆祝，心想这不可能是个有效进球。

It reminded me of what we've missed with him. And so, yeah, I I thought Eze did really well. The goal was so good. I didn't celebrate. I thought, well, that can't be a goal.

他是怎么做到的？我是说，简直又是丹尼尔·奥布莱恩重现。时钟尽头再次沉寂。克莱夫，他在做他的招牌动作。我当时觉得肯定越位了。

How has he done that? I mean, literally, it's Daniel O'Brien again. Clock end dies again. Clive, he's doing his thing. I thought it must be offside.

发生了什么？球怎么进的？当你回看时，天哪。那是个不可思议的进球，懂吗？

What's happened? How's that gone in? And when you rewatch it, oh my goodness. That is an incredible goal. You know?

把这个称为定位球进球甚至感觉有点不妥。对吧？因为这是个非常漂亮的配合。所以我们应该对他融入球队的进展感到非常鼓舞。考虑到他的出场时间，我认为他表现得非常非常好。

And to call that a set piece goals almost feels a little bit wrong. Yeah? Because it's a really good action. So we should be very encouraged in how he's developing into his team. And considering the amount of minutes that he's playing, I think he's doing really, really well.

是啊。我是说，这只是非常基础的数据，我也知道这不能说明全部问题。但比如，他这场比赛的传球成功率是76%。他大概就是75%、76%传球成功率的水准，这就是他的特点。

Yeah. I mean, it's just this is such basic data, and and I realize it's not dispositive. But, like, he he passed at 76% this in this game. He's about a 75, 76% passer. That's what he is.

厄德高，83%，84%的传球成功率。但你知道吗？法布雷加斯说他的传球成功率大约是75%到76%。对吧？有些球员就是喜欢挑战不可能。我觉得他就是那种人，会多带一步球。

Odegaard, 83, 84%. But you know, who was like a 75, 76% passer says Fabregas. Right? There's certain players who want to try the impossible. And I think as a is that guy, and he's gonna take the extra touch.

他会尝试突破额外的防守球员。他会尝试传出那些看似不可能的传球，因为一旦成功，就能改变比赛局势，甚至为你赢得比赛。事实上，米克尔对此有过评论。我们之前讨论过，让我们看看。

He's gonna try to beat the extra man. He's gonna try to play a pass that maybe isn't on because when it works, it changes a game. It wins you a game. In fact, Mikkel had a comment about that. You know, we said on on the let's see.

他对此有很多评论，关于他们在这场比赛中的表现。基本上，如果我能找到那段评论的话...是的。在被问及对阵老东家是否容易踢出强势表现时，他说：不，并不容易。这就是顶级球员的作为，而他无疑是个顶级球员。

He he had a he had a lot of comments about as in what as they did in this game. But, basically, if I can find it yes. On whether on if it was easy for as they deliver a strong performance against his old club, he said, no. It's not. That's what big players do, and he's certainly a big player.

希望这能大大提升他的信心，创造更多这样的时刻，因为这些时刻往往能定义一个赛季。我认为这才是关键，对吧？正是这些由更高水准造就的关键时刻定义了一个赛季。所以蒂姆，我很好奇，当你在现场看比赛时，周围观众对丢球和失误有什么反应？

Hopefully, that's going to give him a big boost in confidence to generate many more moments like this because these are the moments that sometimes define a season. And I think that that is really the key. Right? It's it's the the big moments that define a season that are produced by that next level of quality. And so, Tim, I'm curious, you know, just in the ground sitting there watching this game, were the people around you, were you reacting to the losses of possession and the things that weren't coming off?

因为我们不常见到这种情况。或者说，大家是否意识到面对一支组织严密、善于设陷阱打反击的球队时，你必须尝试些冒险打法，虽然不可能每次都成功。但如果不这么做，你就会陷入'死亡马蹄形'的被动局面。

Because we're not as used to seeing that. Or is there an acknowledgment or recognition that against a really well organized team that's designed to set those traps, take those balls, and then create the counters against them, you have to try some stuff, and it's not all gonna come off. But if you don't, then you wind up going around the horseshoe of death. You

对吧？就是这样。我认为很多人都意识到这就是我们上赛季某些时刻的打法。说实话，很多人完全有理由希望我们踢得更冒险些，在这些区域更有进取心，而这就是冒险的代价。

know? That's just Yeah. Exactly. And and I think a lot of people recognize that's what we were doing at points last season, and and, you know, a lot of us are very justified. A lot of people wanted us to take more risks with the ball, and, you know, be a little bit more enterprising in those areas, and that that is the cost of it.

不过我觉得周围观众对我们后场的几次失误反应还算平静，这种失误在比赛初期完全可以理解。但没错，这正是我们要求球队展现的踢法，而且理由充分。主帅也清楚认识到这点，毋庸置疑。整个夏天我都很困惑为什么有人说阿尔特塔不会这么踢。

Though people, I think, got answer around me around, you know, some of the giveaways in our own half, which, again, I think is is completely justifiable that that kind of occurred early on. But, yeah, absolutely, this this is what this is what we were asking for and justifiably so. And this is and the manager recognized it as well. There's there's no two ways about that. Again, I I found it just really confounding over the summer that, like, oh, well, Arteta won't do that.

他不会喜欢，他根本不想要那样。那他为什么还要签下埃扎和马杜埃凯，还有约科雷兹呢？显然，他追求这些极具攻击性的球员是有原因的。你们难道看不出他已经意识到很多问题了吗？而且，是的，关于埃兹，这中间肯定需要一些妥协。

He won't like, he won't he doesn't want that. And it's like, so why is he signing Eza and Madueke and, like, and Yokorez? Like, there's there's a reason he's going after very, very direct attackers. Like, how are you not reading the tea leaves that he's recognized a lot of the issues? And and, yeah, and and with Eze, there there is gonna be a little bit of give and take with that.

我想我之前说过，我对埃兹和厄德高同时打8号位持保留态度。不过这场比赛可能让我稍微改变了看法——你看，厄德高其实是球队的衔接核心，他更像传统8号位，会频繁触球。

And and I suppose I I have kind of said that I'm I'm just not sure about Eze and Erdegaard as twin eights, for example. But Yeah. Maybe this game put me back in that direction a little bit because it's like, oh, well, actually, Erdogard's your continuity guy. He's more your eight. He's gonna be high touch.

他或许能弥补埃兹拉所欠缺的特质，而埃兹拉又能提供厄德高不具备的东西。假以时日，这种配置或许能奏效——让厄德高更多作为8号位回撤，在祖比门迪和埃兹拉之间串联。这场比赛确实证明了这种安排可行，甚至可能比我们看到的实际效果更好。当然，正如我说的，表扬他们敢于冒险是一回事...

He he might, you know, fill in some of those things almost that Ezra doesn't give you, but then you get Ezra gives you stuff that Odegaard doesn't give you. And and and so maybe with time, something like that can work, you know, with Odegaard more as an eight kinda dropping between Zubamendi and Ezra and trying to funnel the ball between them. And, you know, may maybe this game showed me, actually, that that that that can work, and that actually might have worked better than probably what we saw in this game as well. So, yeah, absolutely. But but, you know, it is one thing, like I said, for me to pat them on the back for taking more risks and stuff like that.

我依然认为我们在运动战中表现不佳，完全看不出能再进一球。终场阶段很明显——再次强调，主要因为关键球员缺阵。但当时我们就是在保1-0，而不是争取2-0，这说明球队对比赛形势判断准确。

I I still think from open play, we didn't look great. I don't think we look like scoring another goal, and you could see at the end and, again, like like I said, a lot of it was because we just lost important players. Yep. But at the end, we we knew we were protecting one nil and not trying to win two nil. And I think that was a case of us reading what's on offer in this game.

第二粒进球本就不属于我们，所以守住胜果是正确的选择。不过长远来看，我希望看到更多2-0式的足球。

Second goal is not really on offer here for us, so let's let's protect what we've got, which I think was the right decision. But long term, I think I'd like to see a bit more two nil football. You know?

确实，本有机会2-0的——比如加比挑传莱奥，萨卡差半步没赶上那次；还有加比头球中柱；以及那次混战中...

Yeah. And I think there were some openings where it could have been two nil, obviously. I mentioned the one where Gabby chips to Leo and Saka can't quite get onto it. There's I think Gabby hits the post with his header is in the second half. There was the the scrambled one.

就是那次混战射门疑似手球？当时赖斯有脚射门击中了...

What was the scrambled one where where there was the shot for a handball? So there was Rice had a shot for hit the

酒吧，赖斯当时

bar, and Rice had

那是加维击中的时候

a That was when Gavi hit

目标。

the mark.

是的。多次机会可以扩大到2比0。但就像我说的，下半场，水晶宫有四次射门，预期进球值为0.3。如果他们更积极争取胜利，我们可能已经2比3了。比赛结果取决于双方的表现。

Yeah. Multiple chances to make it two nil there. But, again, like I said, second half, Palace had four shots worth point three XG. So had they pushed more to try to win it, we may have gotten to two and three. And and games are about what both teams do.

对吧？最后一点关于...看，我认为利奥这场比赛表现非常出色——说'出色'可能有点夸张，但确实是一场稳健的利奥式表现。

Right? As a final point on on as a and look. I thought Leo was brilliant in this game. I thought it was a good brilliant might be overstated. That was a good solid Leo performance.

他确实很棒。我依然认为他是这个位置的完美人选，这很有趣。但关于...这是来自MB数据：非点球预期进球加助攻值，英超中场第一。

He was really good. I still see as a as being the perfect fit for the way we're using that position, so that'd be interesting. But a couple of things on on as a. This is from data m b. Non penalty XG plus XA, first among Premier League midfielders.

射门次数英超中场第一，射正次数第一，助攻第二，机会创造率第二，非点球预期进球第二，每百次触球预期进球值第二。

Shots, first among Premier League midfielders. Shots on target, first among Premier League midfielders. Assist, second chance creation ratio, second. Non penalty XG, second. XG per 100 touches, second.

持球频率，第三。所以，你看，尽管我认为他还有提升空间，尽管我认为他现在踢的位置可能对他而言仍有些别扭，但我觉得他表现得非常出色。那个进球本身就很惊艳。显然，那个不庆祝的庆祝。米克尔对他赞不绝口，说这正是我们签下他所期待的时刻。

Ball carrying frequency, third. So, you know, even though I think there's more to come from him, and even though I think he's playing in a role that maybe is still a weird slightly weird fit for him, I think he's doing it brilliantly. The goal itself is stunning. Obviously, the no celebration celebration. Mikkel had so much praise for him on whether it's the kind of moment we signed him for.

没错。100%以他那种方式击球。和他去年对阵我们时从角球直接破门的位置非常相似。所以他有能力在对阵如此密集防守、身体对抗强、不给任何空间的球队时做到这点。当九个人防守你最好的球员时，你必须制造混乱或拉开空间来创造机会，而他处理球和射门的方式都非常出色。

Yes. A 100% to strike the ball in the manner that he did. Very similar to where he did it last year, but against us when he scored from that corner directly on the post. So he's got the ability to do that against a team that defends with that many bodies, so physical, don't allow any space. With nine defending your best player, you have to generate chaos or open space to generate big chances, and he took the ball and the goal really well.

顺便说一句，我要指出，这和他在周中对阵Athlete时尝试的技巧如出一辙，那次导致了约克拉什的进球。所以，我们知道这是他能够尝试的招数。其实我想谈谈约克拉什。我觉得值得聊聊我们如何结束比赛，以及替补登场帮助锁定胜局的球员，或许还可以谈谈我们对联赛杯的策略。这期播客已经进行很久了，却还没提到赞助商。

I will point out, by the way, it's the same kind of skill that he tried to pull off in midweek against Athlete that led to Yokrash's goal. So, you know, we know that's something that he can try to do. I wanna talk about Yokrash, actually. I think that's worth a chat, how we finished the game and the players who came in and helped make it safe, and maybe a bit on how we approach the league cup. We are well into this podcast and have not hit the brands.

对此我感到非常失望。所以让我赶紧补救，因为这样真的不行。我这样对你们很不应该。但我能告诉你们的是：如果想搭建电商网站，Shopify是最佳平台。它能让你建立商店销售产品，不仅限于自己的网站，还能同步到Instagram、Facebook、TikTok等平台，而无需学习如何做系统集成、购物车优化，也不用操心物流和税费计算。

And I I feel a huge sense of disappointment on not having done that. So let me let me do that because this is this is not okay. It's not okay that I've done this to you. But what I can do for you is tell you that if you wanna build an ecommerce site, then Shopify is the platform to do it with. Shopify is a platform that lets you build a store where you can put your products for sale, not just on your own website, but on Instagram and Facebook and TikTok and all of that without having to learn how to do things like integrations, without having to learn how to do things like cart optimization, without having to learn how to do things like figure out shipping and taxation.

这些功能它全包了。基本上是个开箱即用的全能电商引擎，你只需选择喜欢的模板——从他们提供的设计中挑选，然后填写描述、上传图片就行。就这么简单。它能让你轻松拥有看起来像全球电商巨头的店铺，无论你想在哪个平台运营。

It does all of that. It's basically an off the shelf all in one ecommerce engine, and all you do is say, what design do I like? You can pick from the designs they have, and and then write the description and post the pictures. That's it. And it it makes it simple to have something that looks like a global ecommerce powerhouse on whatever platform you wanna be on.

确实很棒。事实上，有位阿森纳球迷私信我，他在Shopify上卖自己设计的T恤和帽子等周边，专门来道谢说：'太棒了，多谢推荐'。所以如果你想开展业务，现在就去shopify.com/arsenalvision（全小写）注册，享受每月1美元的试用期。

It really is great. In fact, had someone DM me, an arsenal supporter who's selling his artwork on shirts and hats and things like that, and he built it with Shopify and just stopped by to say, hey. It was great. Thanks for the heads up. So if you want to get your business up and running, sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/arsenalvision, all lowercase.

访问shopify.com/arsenalvision，立即开始用Shopify销售。shopify.com/arsenalvision，现在就行动。本广告由BetterHelp赞助播出。

Go to shopify.com/arsenalvision. Start selling Shopify today. Shopify.com/arsenalvision. Do it now. And this is a paid ad by BetterHelp.

BetterHelp并非在线治疗，它只是恰好通过网络进行的治疗。要知道，我曾接受过治疗，发现这对个人成长至关重要。当时我是在治疗师的办公室里进行的。如果你有条件也愿意尝试，我强烈推荐这种形式。

BetterHelp is not online therapy. It is therapy that just happens to be online. You know, I have done therapy, and I found it to be a really important part of my development as a human being. And I did it sitting in an office with a therapist. And if that's something that you can do and wanna do, I strongly recommend it.

但我想说的是，与人倾诉并共同解决你所面临的挑战，这个过程至关重要。如今我们承受着前所未有的毒性与负面情绪，因为不仅生活本身的挑战依旧存在，我们还时刻握着手机。每次打开手机，都可能被那些真正阻碍我们的事物狂轰滥炸。那么你能开车吗？能去诊所吗？

But what I will say is the process of talking to someone and working through the challenges that you have is a critical process. And today, we are inundated with more toxicity and negativity than ever before because not only do the regular challenges of life still exist, but we have these phones in our hand. And every time we open them, we can be bombarded by things that really hold us back. So can you get in a car? Can you drive to an office?

你能在诊所里完成治疗吗？能开车回来吗？能安排好 childcare 吗？费用在你的预算范围内吗？BetterHelp 消除了所有这些阻碍你接受治疗的摩擦。

Can you sit in that office? Can you drive back? Can you get childcare to do that? Is it in your budget? BetterHelp eliminates all the friction that prevents you from doing this.

它应该像锻炼或健康饮食一样，成为你生活习惯的一部分。明白吗？平台会为你匹配符合需求的治疗师，必要时还能找到当地专家。好吗？

It should be like exercising or eating right. Just something you put into your life habits. Right? It'll match you with a therapist that fits your needs, specialist in your area if you need it. Okay?

你随时可以更换治疗师。初期若感到不适，可以关闭摄像头进行。所以这个月别再犹豫了，无论是关心朋友还是为自己寻求帮助。BetterHelp让迈出第一步变得简单。我们的听众首月可享9折优惠，请访问betterhelp.com/vision。

And you can change if you need to. You could do it camera off if that's what makes you feel most comfortable to start with. So this month, don't wait to reach out whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself. BetterHelp makes it easy to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/vision.

就是betterhelp.com/vision。现在就行动吧。最后是NordVPN，最简单的选择。人人都在用，快下载吧。

That's better help, help.com/vision. Do it now. And finally, NordVPN, easiest one. Everybody does it. Get it.

这是个应用程序。你可以装在手机、平板、PC或Mac上。想用英国IP浏览？澳大利亚IP？还是意大利IP？随心切换。

It's an app. You put it on your phone, your tablet, your PC, your Mac. You say, wanna browse in The UK. Wanna browse in Australia. I wanna browse in Italy.

我想在美国浏览网络，在加拿大、墨西哥也行。随便你说哪个国家，你都能浏览。这么做的原因是，在足球领域，我们经常遇到进球视频、解说等内容，当你试图观看时却显示'此内容在您所在地区不可用'。

I wanna browse in The US. I wanna browse in Canada, Mexico. You name it. And you can be browsing them. The reason you do that is in football, we frequently come across goal videos or commentary or things like that where you try to watch it and it says, this is not available in your area.

现在所有内容在你所在地区都能看了。等我12月去伦敦看我们狂虐狼队的时候，天哪。他说可能会是10比0，这话可别乌鸦嘴了。如果我想看曼联输球呢？你知道吗？

Everything's available in your area now. When I go over to London in December and I'm there to see us batter wolves, oh, boy. That could be the 10 nil, he says, jinxing it. What if I wanna watch United lose to someone? You know what?

也许曼联现在已经不是该被针对的球队了。哦，你知道吗？我知道有个队很烂——利物浦。也许我想看他们输球，但因为下午3点转播禁令看不了。

Maybe United aren't the team to pick on anymore. Oh, you know what? Here I know what team that stinks. Liverpool. Maybe I wanna watch them lose to someone, but I can't because there's 3PM blackout.

除非我说要切换回美国浏览，在那里看足球比赛。这样就能两全其美了，对吧？操作非常简单，价格实惠，网速超快，对我们来说性价比极高。立即通过nordvpn.com/arsenalvision获取NordVPN专属优惠。

Not if I say I wanna browse back in The US and watch my football while I'm there. It's the best of both worlds. Right? Well, very easy to do, very affordable, super high speeds, and they have a really, really good value for us. Grab your exclusive NordVPN deal by going to nordvpn.com/arsenalvision.

访问nordvpn.com/arsenalvision。享受NordVPN套餐大幅折扣，并额外赠送4个月服务。NordVPN提供无风险退款保证。网址是nordvpn.com/arsenalvision。你这广告词不怎么样啊。

Nordvpn.com/arsenalvision. Get a huge discount off your NordVPN plan plus four additional months on top. It's completely risk free with NordVPN money back guarantee. That's nordvpn.com/arsenalvision. You're not good.

这段够长了吗？

Is that enough of that?

确实。

Indeed.

克莱夫，为什么维克多·约克在足球场上这么糟糕？我开玩笑的。我开玩笑的。我在试着删掉这句话。我在试着把它去掉。

Now that Clive, why is Victor Yorker so terrible at football? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm trying to delete it. I'm trying to remove it.

对不起，对不起。别生我的气。不，我开玩笑的。

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Don't get mad at me. No. I'm kidding.

我内心很矛盾，因为我觉得自己内心的嬉皮士在冒头，想说些让人翻白眼的话。我真的觉得他的跑动对我们有帮助。我真的觉得他把防守球员逼回他们球门的方式对我们有帮助。我真的觉得他在尽力提供接应点。我真的觉得他在那些不会让你上头版头条的事情上做得很好，比如进球得分。

Like, I I am torn because I feel the hipster in me rising up to say something that people are gonna roll their eyes at. I really feel like his running is helping us. I really feel like the way he pushes defenders back towards their goal is helping us. I really feel like he's providing an outlet in the way he can. I really feel like he is doing a great job at the things that don't get you the headlines like scoring goals.

但我也不得不承认，这场比赛中有几次看起来他本可以突破防守球员，球就在那里，但他落后于拉克鲁瓦或盖伊一步，或者被对方用肩膀挤开。所以又是喜忧参半，这不是一场他在进球方面影响比赛的比赛，但我对他通过工作为我们做的事情印象深刻。但我知道有些人会说标准太低了，埃利奥特。这还不够好。那么我们该如何评价一个在这场比赛中没有进球的射手呢？

But I also have to acknowledge that there were times in this game where it looked like he might have had a run on his defender and the ball was there and he lost the step to Lacroix or Gaye or got shouldered off it. So another mixed bag, not a game where he affected it in terms of the goal scoring, but I I am impressed by the the things he's doing for us with his work. But I know there are some people that will say the bar is too low, Elliott. That's not good enough. So how do we evaluate a striker who's not amongst the goals in this game?

是的。我现在对我们的前锋有点担心，因为我们缺少三个。真的很优秀的三个。包括热苏斯就是四个，但我们知道他的缺席时间会更长一些。这对剩下的其他人也有影响。

Yeah. I'm a bit worried about our strikers at the moment, our forwards, because we we're missing three. Really good ones. Four include Jesus, but we we know it's a bit longer term. And that has an impact on the others that are left.

所以剩下的四个人，你知道，真正轮换的只有马丁、埃利和特鲁萨德。他们最近表现更出色，因为他们一直在轮换。这就是我们将来能从若卡雷斯和萨卡那里得到的。伙计，昨天对诺尼马德维克来说真是糟糕的一天。考虑到我们对萨卡的了解，当你看到那一刻时，你会想，哦，伙计。

So the four that are left, you know, the only ones that get rotated really are Martin, Eli, and Trussard. They've had brighter games recently because they've been rotating. This is what we can we'll get in the future from Jokarese and Saka. Mate, well, this was so a nonimadweke day yesterday. Given what we knew about Saka and the moment you saw it, you think, oh, mate.

你现在只是名义上在那里。你知道吗？所以当天表现最出色的是特鲁萨德和埃兹。你知道吗？他们对比赛的贡献要大得多。

You're just there nominally at the moment. You know? And so the brightest people on the day was Trussard and Eze. You know? They had the much more bright contributions to the match.

那么，我们最终得到了什么？在这场比赛中，整个职业生涯就像一场大篷车旅行。你知道吗？这些跑动对我们推进球场至关重要，但有些跑动相当基础，你能预见到它们的到来。

And so so what did we end up with? Career's the the full caravan out in this game. You know? And and you just feel that so these runs are really important for us to get up the pitch, but some of them are quite basic. You know they're coming.

嗯。防守球员的做法就是像你预期的那样后撤，不对球施压。他们后撤，然后赢得赛跑。人们会说，哦，他没到位。

Mhmm. So what defenders are doing is they're dropping off like you would do. No pressure on the ball. You drop off, and you win the race. And people, they're like, oh, he hasn't got there.

我的YouTube视频展示了我在葡萄牙的表现。他在我的视频里赢得了所有那些赛跑。嗯。拉克鲁瓦相当快，我认为他比上赛季效力本菲卡的奥托·门迪还要快一些。

My YouTube clip showed me in Portugal. He won all those races on my YouTube clip. Mhmm. Lacroix is pretty quick. I think he's a bit quicker than Otto Mendy who's playing for Ben Vica last season.

明白吗？这就是内维尔的不同之处。但这不意味着他不能为我们发挥作用，因为我们不再被压制在球场后三分之一区域了。比赛后期有个典型例子，当时我们有些紧张被压制。

You know? And and so that's the difference in Neville. But that doesn't mean he can't be effective for us because we're not being trapped in our in the lower third of the pitch anymore. There's a classic one late in the game. We were being trapped a bit nervy.

马丁·内利直接把球吊到我们左侧，约克雷杰插上接应，赢得赛跑，我想我们重新掌控了比赛，压力就此消散。这种能力——你会忘记我们曾有穆里尼奥和哈弗茨不跑身后的日子，因为他经常被要求回接充当额外中场，而我们的边锋负责前插，因为对手封锁了边路。我们都知道这样做的后果——我们会被完全限制住。

Martin Nelly just hooks it down our left hand side. Jochrej is in behind onto it, wins the race, and we are I think we get where we get control of the game again, and the pressure just goes away. The ability to do that, you just you forget that we had Mourinho and a non running in behind Havertz, because a lot of the time he was asked to come to the ball to create extra midfielder, and our wingers ran in behind because people blocked off our wingers. We all know what happens. When that happens, we get nullified.

所以我们有所收获。他改善了我们的战术模式。但现在看比赛时，我心里感觉他没赛季初那么积极了，那时他看起来更活力充沛。现在球处理起来感觉有点慢，有点笨拙。但我们对他的要求实在太高了。

So we have something. So he has improved our pattern. Now my heart, when I'm watching him, he's not as encouraged as it was early in the season when he looked fresher. You know? The ball, it all feels a little bit slow at the moment, a little bit clunky, But we're asking a hell of a lot of him.

我要补充说明，因为我见过他活力充沛的样子。回想他对阵波特维尔的比赛休整后，紧接着周末对阵纽卡斯尔——蒂姆你当时在场，没人质疑他那场的表现，面对联赛第二的防线（我记得数据如此，不确定），他用真正的身体对抗、活力和速度把对方搅得天翻地覆。既然我见过这种表现，就知道他具备这种能力。

And I will caveat that because I have seen him fresh. And I go back to the Port Vale game, which he sat down for, and then he went to the Newcastle game at the weekend. And, Tim, you were there, And none of us are questioning his performance in that game, up against the second best defense in league, I think, time recorded, not sure. And he ran them ragged with real physicality and freshness and speed. So once I've seen it, I know it's there.

现在来谈谈另一个问题，为什么几天后他不在那里？因为他参加了每一场比赛，几乎参与了每场比赛的所有环节。但他现在状态不佳，看起来不够犀利，完全不符合人们对他的评价。

Now for some other question, why is it not there a few days later? Because he's played every single game and almost all the means of every single game. And he's just not fresh at the moment. Doesn't look sharp. Looks all the things that people don't rate him.

他偶尔会表现出这些状态，但对团队却至关重要，他们需要他。目前他们正需要这样的球员。当我们考察埃基蒂克、塞斯科、约卡雷兹等前锋时，英超本赛季发展出的直接打法让我们找到了合适人选。明白我的意思吗？因为我们有那个人。

He looks all those things on occasions, yet he's incredibly important to his group, and they need him. They need that player at the moment. And the game when we looked at strikers at Ekitike, Sesco, Jokarez, the way the Premier League has developed this year with direct play, we have the right one for us. Do you know what I mean? Because because we have that guy.

埃基蒂克做不到约卡雷兹为我们做的事。对吧？他更擅长高触球频率、盘带突破、回撤引诱中后卫——想跟防我吗？然后接球完成一二配合。我们有球员能做到这些。

Ekitikay is not doing what Jokrev is gonna do for us. Right? He's much more high touch, dribbling, carrying, drops away from center back to say, do you wanna follow me? And then gets on it and then goes one two combinations. We we've we've got players that can do that.

明白吗？所以我们不需要那种球员。我们没有那种直来直往的球员，这反而能帮我们摆脱防守。我们正在打造球队的进攻纵深以获得更多空间，而他创造纵深的能力胜过塞斯科和其他所有人。

You know? So so we don't need that. We haven't got this guy that's really direct. It's really gonna get people off us. What we're trying to do is create depth in our team so we have more space to play in, and he creates depth better than Cesco, better than all the others.

他是我们的完美人选。听起来可能很疯狂——年轻的卡勒姆·威尔逊就是为这种英超打法而生的，边路冲刺的通道跑锋。

He's perfect for us. You know? And it sounds crazy. A young Callum Wilson is perfect for this Premier League football. Run down the sides, channel runner.

这正是你想要的。年轻的杰米·瓦尔迪今天坐在这里肯定会想：天啊，英超现在打的正是我的足球，我绝对能大杀四方。

That's just what you want. You know? A young Jamie Varley will be sitting here today thinking, oh my god. The Premier League is now playing my football. I would just kill it.

知道吗？我们拥有的就是增重了两公斤的杰米·瓦尔迪。这对我们整体战术体系至关重要。

You know? And and what we have is Jamie Varley with about two extra kg on him. Right? That's what we have. But critically important to our to our overall pattern of play.

所以当哈比特回归时，埃利奥特，我认为他会更像约克雷布那样踢球，而不是以前的哈比特，因为我们会要求他做非常相似的事情。

So when Habit comes back, Elliot, I think he'll be playing much more like Jokreb than than the old Habit because we'll be asking to do very similar things.

是的。我是说，在所有比赛中，只有祖比和加维的上场时间比他多，也就多二十到三十分钟。这个赛季他踢了很多分钟。从对阵波特瓦尔的二十分钟开始，接着对纽卡斯尔踢满90分钟，奥林匹亚科斯90分钟，西汉姆90分钟，瑞典国家队两场各90分钟，对富勒姆89分钟，马竞82分钟，水晶宫90分钟。这真是大量的比赛时间。

Yeah. I mean, only Zuby and Gavi have more minutes in all comps, and it's, like, twenty or thirty more minutes. He's played a lot of minutes this season. This is so following Port Vale where he played twenty minutes, he went 90 against Newcastle, 90 against Olympiacos, 90 against West Ham, 90 for Sweden, 90 for Sweden, 89 against Fulham, 82 against Atleti, 90 against Palace. It's a lot of football.

我是说，这就是工作，但我不认为这是原计划。你知道吗？我的意思是，那绝不是计划好的。这场比赛就能看出来。比如布卡约·萨卡，有时候球员状态不好时，我们总爱说‘哦，他们明显不在状态’。

And I I mean, that's the job, but I don't think that would have been the plan. You know? I mean, don't think that was the plan. And you saw it in this game. I mean, like, Bukayo Saki sometimes I think we're guilty when a player doesn't have a good game of going, oh, they're clearly not fit.

这场比赛绝对是这种情况。看布卡约·萨卡就知道他不对劲。米克尔赛后也说，萨卡生病了，没参加训练，我们原本不知道他能否上场。

This was definitely a game. You're like, with Bukayo Saki, you just see he's not right. And Mikkel said after the game, Saki, he's been ill. He is not trained. We didn't know he was gonna be able to play.

他勉强踢了几分钟，但随着比赛进行，他越来越疲劳，我们不想冒受伤风险。所以，情况就是这样。蒂姆，确实有些比赛——不管你怎么评价我们的运动战进球能力——当你最好的球员萨卡状态不佳必须下场，又没有纳尼、凯和厄德高，球员逐渐耗尽，德克兰·赖斯说要下场，萨利巴半场就被换下时...如果相信现有阵型能守住1-0，可能比让疲劳或半受伤的轮换球员硬撑更明智。

He managed to play a few minutes, but the longer the game went, he was going to fatigue, and we didn't wanna risk injury. So, yeah, that just is what it is. And there are games, Tim, I do think where, you know, whatever you wanna say about our open play goal creation, when your best player sack is not fit and has to come off and you don't have Nani and you don't have Kai and you don't have Odegaard. Right? And you're sort of running out of players and Declan Rice has said to come off and Saliba's come off at halftime where if you think you can trust your shape to hold a one nil, that may be better than trying to get fatigued or half injured or, you know, rotated players to win you the game.

因为到比赛尾声时，我开始意识到：从天赋角度看，我们开场时有巨大优势，结束时却势均力敌。当天赋差距缩小，如果还想和对方硬拼，可能会吃大亏。有时候谨慎就是最大的勇气。不过我想重点说说替补球员的亮眼表现，其中马斯卡拉值得表扬——克莱夫在语音笔记里也提到了这点。

Because by the end of the game, I'm starting to look at this, and I'm saying, you know, from a talent standpoint, we start the game with a massive talent advantage. We end the game in a much closer contest from a talent standpoint. And as the talent starts to level out, if you wanna go toe to toe with that team, you can get chin. So discretion can be the better part of valor, but I do wanna just talk about how we how we finish the game with some interesting performances from people came on. And the one that deserves a little credit, I think, is Mascara because Clive had mentioned this in his voice note.

我下半场开始几分钟后才注意到。中场休息时我去处理了些事情，刚好赶上下半场开场。起初我没发现马斯卡拉上场，过了几分钟才意识到。他或许不如萨利巴，但此刻当他替补登场时，确实给人极大的安心感。

Took me a few minutes into the second half. I had to run and do something at halftime, so I got back just in time for the second half to start. And I didn't realize Mascara had come on. It took me a few minutes. I mean, he may not be Saliba, but at the moment right now when he comes on, he gives tremendous comfort.

而且我觉得他在场上时让人很放心，看起来非常从容。对我来说马斯卡拉又贡献了一场稳健的表现。你同意吗？

And and I think just ease of of mind when he's on the pitch, he looks very comfortable. So another assured performance from Mascara for me. You agree?

是的，完全同意。这其实是个极高的评价——你几乎没注意到萨利巴不在场。不仅仅因为萨利巴的实力，作为中卫要临危受命跟上比赛节奏实在太难了。我一直认为替补中卫是球队里最难踢的位置之一。

Yeah. Absolutely. And that that is, like, a huge compliment that you kinda don't notice that Saliba's not there. Not not just because of the quality of Saliba, but for a center half, that's so difficult, I think, to come in and pick up the rhythm of a game. How many I've I've always said I think being a backup center back is one of the most difficult kind of positions you can be in in a squad.

我们看基比奥尔就知道了，对吧？总是需要两三场比赛适应。等他踢了两三场后，在我看来就完全融入体系了。还记得去年这时候对伯恩茅斯那场吗？可能正好是去年这个周末。

We saw it with Kibbeor, right, all the time. It would take a couple of games. Once he got two or three games under his belt, he always looked like pretty much part of the furniture to me. But would remember that Bournemouth game about this time last year? Might have been this exact weekend last year.

当然不是。基比奥尔上场后确实有失误，我倒不是批评他，因为这很正常。但马斯卡拉的表现反而显得不太寻常，而且还不止如此。最后阶段我们还失去了赖斯和卡利福里。

Yeah. Of course not. And and Kibior came on, and there were mistakes and you know, which I'm not having a go at him about, but because I I think that's quite natural. I I think what Mascara's doing is not very natural in terms of coming on, but not just that as well. You know, like, the end, we lost Rice and Califuri as well.

我们失去了三名防守核心，其中两人还是同时伤退。路易斯·斯凯利换下埃兹拉时很有意思，我原以为他要踢中场，结果发现是罗布·霍丁式的532阵型。这种特殊安排我能理解，毕竟当时的人员损失和比赛走势。

That's three big players for our defensive stability we lost, and we lost two of them at the same time. And it was quite interesting when Lewis Skelly came on for Ezra. I was thinking, oh, he's coming on in midfield. And then it was like, nope. This is this is Rob Holding 532 lads kind of stuff, which which you get, like, on on a kind of one off basis, which I think this was with the players that we'd lost and the way the game had gone.

坦白说我不希望长期看到'罗布·霍丁举着五根手指上场'这种换人重现，迟早会出问题。不过眼下我可以接受这个应急方案——确实这场我们稳定性被打断了，流畅度也不够。上周赛后我就说过这话。

I, you know, I I don't want necessarily long term to see a return to the Rob holding coming on holding five fingers up kind of substitution because I I think I think that will bite you after a while. So I'm I'm happy to stick a pin in it and say, yeah. Okay. We our stability was was interrupted in a game where we didn't flow that much. But, you know, I said this, after the game last week.

看看替补席上的后卫：本·怀特、欣卡皮耶、斯卡拉、路易斯·斯凯利，这四人组本身就能组成强力防线。我们不得不派上其中几位，比如欣卡皮耶基本算是首秀（至少是主场首秀）。最后摆出五后卫阵型或许是个小提示——他和卡利福里一样，以前踢过三中卫的边翼。这可能为我们提供另一种终结比赛的选择。

Like, the the subs on the bench, defenders, like White, Hinkapay, Scarra, Lewis Skelly, that's a great back four in its own right. And and we had to get some of them on the pitch. So, you know, Ink Bay had to come on to to make his debut, basically, certainly his home debut. And and and and, actually, maybe there was a little hint there, the fact that we did finish with a back five, and and he is someone a bit like Califiore who's played on the outside pin of a back three before. So, you know, maybe it's it's just another option there, to close out games.

再次强调，虽然不想总是看到这种情况，但想想夏天可能会失去富安健洋和乔治尼奥这样的球员。我认为这些球员通常非常擅长替补上场并为我们锁定胜局。至于诺尔高，我们甚至都没让他上场。其实可以让他替换赖斯上场。所以，在防守稳定性方面，最令人欣慰的是它并不依赖个别球员。

Again, don't wanna see it all the time, but you think of losing players like Tomiyasu and Georginio in the summer. I think those are guys who generally have been very good at coming on and closing out games for us. Norgaard, I think he we we didn't even bring him on. Could have brought him on for Rice, for example. So, you know, like, in terms of our defensive stability, I think what's so pleasing about it is that it isn't dependent on individuals.

我们可以让其他人加入后防线。我们可以在后防线前安排不同的人选，依然能保持非常非常稳固的状态。这并不是因为我们全线退守。好吧，比赛最后几分钟我们可能确实这样做了，但关键在于每个人都清楚自己的职责。

We can bring other people into that back line. We can sit other people in front of that back four and still look very, very stable. And it's not because we're sticking 10 behind the ball. Okay. We we probably did for the last kind of few minutes of this game, but just everyone knows their job.

我认为这才是真正突出的地方。当然还有球员素质，比如马斯卡拉的表现简直是惊人发现。上周我听了你和菲尔做的播客排名，菲尔把他列为夏季引援的第二佳签约。一开始我还觉得'真的吗？'，但听完菲尔的解释后，我完全认同了。

I think that's what really sticks out. And and, obviously, the quality, someone like Mascara, but an absolute revelation. I listened to the pod you did with Phil last week rankings, and Phil had him as, like, the second best signing, like like, so far, obviously, from the summer. And, yeah, at first, I was a bit like, really? And then actually when Phil explained it, I was like, yeah.

实际上，他的表现确实令人难以置信，而且在这种背景下能做到这点实在令人印象深刻。但我也想回到之前关于加布里埃尔的讨论。我们失去了很多球员，廷贝尔也是。那些留在场上的球员，在周围队友受伤离场时，需要承担更多责任来维持局面。最后我想说，强烈建议大家去看看迈克尔·理查兹在《每日比赛》中对富勒姆比赛后的分析。

Actually, what what he's doing is pretty incredible, and the context in which he's doing it is is seriously impressive. But I I would also go back to, you know, what I was saying earlier about Gabriel. Like, we kind of lost a lot of and Timber as well. Like, those guys that don't come off that do stay on, you know, that they have a bit more to do when, like, players are going off injured around them to hold it together. It's just I so I'll finish this ramble with I'd really advise people to look up Michael Richards' analysis after the Fulham game on match of the day.

他分析了阿森纳球员回防的速度。他重点展示了富勒姆的几次反击，比如三打三的局面，然后他数着'一、二、三、四'，转眼间11名球员全部回防到位。这正是我们防守稳固的关键所在。

He was looking at how quickly the Arsenal players run back. Like, he highlighted a couple of Fulham breaks, and he's like, this is three on three. And then he counts, like, one, two, three, four. All 11 players are back. And and that's really what gives us a lot of stability as well.

每个人都拼尽全力。

Everyone just works so hard.

是的。比如第9分钟，当梅特塔超越萨利巴接到那个左路长传时，是廷贝尔从右后卫位置一路补防解围。廷贝尔再次证明了自己，他总是出现在最危险的地方——他是被犯规次数最多的球员。

Yeah. I mean, in the ninth minute, when when Metteta beat Saliba to that long ball, that's in sort of the left channel. And Timber is the one who comes across and cleans that up all the way from right back. Timber is again, he's just in the wars. He he was the most fouled player.

他在对抗中赢了很多次，还完成了一次盘带。他必须上前支援萨卡，又得回防清理所有威胁。我觉得这多少能说明本·怀特当前的身体状况，以及廷贝尔的重要性——我们开始启用各种类型的防守球员。

He won a ton of duels. He had a dribble. He's gotta get up there and support Saka. He's gotta get back and clean everything up. And I I think it tells you, a, a little bit about where Ben White is just in his physical capacity right now and the importance of Timber that, you know, we started bringing on all kinds of defenders.

但本·怀特这场比赛根本没机会上场，廷贝尔也不会被换下。有意思的是，回顾夏窗时你会想：我们为什么要买马斯卡拉和恩卡皮耶？这场比赛我们最后派上了马斯卡拉、恩卡皮耶和迈尔斯·刘易斯·凯利，实在是不得已而为之。

But Ben White, there was no room for him to come on in this game, and, you know, Timber's not coming off the pitch. And it's funny because you look at the summer, and you're like, why are we buying, like, mascara and Encapier? What are we doing in this game? We finished with mascara on and Encapier on and Miles Lewis Kelly on. You know, we we had to.

马里诺的短暂登场确实让我忍不住笑了，某种程度上简直糟糕透顶。他五次传球就有一次失误，每次拿球几乎都会丢，不过倒是完成了两次头球解围和一次双人拦截。说白了，他就是来当个搅局者，而且确实做到了。

I do have a quick laugh at the Marino cameo, which I thought, you know, in part was just absolutely horrific. He was one of five passing. It seems like every time he got the ball, gave it away, but two headed clearances and a dual one. You know? He's he's there to keep the game safe, and he and he did.

就是很滑稽。

It's just funny.

这就是他的任务——把球清出危险区域，当个讨厌鬼，试图骗犯规。简直像两年前欧洲杯上英格兰队的吉尔·斯科特，当时英格兰领先十分钟后还剩十分钟，她就到处挑衅骗犯规。说白了，他就是来当害虫的。

That's what he was on to do. He was on to get the ball away from the area, be a nuisance, try and buy a foul. It was it was almost like Jill Jill Scott in the Euros a couple of years ago for England had this wrong where, yeah, when England took the lead on ten minutes with ten minutes to go, it's like, just get in everyone's faces, get some fouls, annoy people. He he was there to be a pest, basically.

没错。我提过这点，感觉过去几个赛季总有这样的关键时刻，尤其是上周。上赛季对维拉那场是不是就这样？当争冠对手丢分时，这本该是我们拉开差距的机会，但我们却一次次错失良机。

Yeah. And I said this, but it feels like the last couple of seasons, I can point to those days, those weekends, especially last week. Oh, was it was it the Villa game last season where there's a chance The the the the leading team or the other teams in the title race have dropped points, and this is your chance. This is where you steal a march. And we've let those moments go.

在利物浦遭遇四连败、曼城也即将输球的关键周末，我们本有机会扩大领先优势或甩开追兵。一球领先时若能守住，本将是对球队性格的绝佳考验与展示。现在批评他们『只赢一球』当然容易。

We've we've missed the opportunity to to gain ground or put distance between us and the chasing pack on a critical weekend where they drop points. And this was a weekend where Liverpool had dropped points, their fourth loss in a row, really try to capitalize on that and put them down. And city are in in the process of losing, and you've got the one goal lead. And to see that out, I I think it is such a big test of character and display of character. And it it's easy to critique, oh, they only won one nil.

他们创造的机会不够。你知道，另外两个所谓的冠军争夺者也输了。结果证明情况更糟。阿尔特塔说，我告诉小伙子们，我比本赛季任何其他胜利都更看重这场胜利。你知道吗？

They didn't create enough. You know, the other two supposed title pretenders lost. That's worse, it turns out. And and Arteta said, I told the boys that I value this victory more than any other victory this season. You know?

我理解他的意思。他说，因为我们知道每三天比赛后的困难。周末发生的事情也给了我们一个大机会。而且我知道我们对阵的是一支在我看来最近在组织方面表现最佳的球队。他们让比赛变得多么艰难，能让你多么沮丧。

And and I get it. And he says, because we knew the difficulty of it after playing every three days. We had a big opportunity as well with the things that happened during the weekend. And I knew we played against a team that, in my opinion, has been one of the best recently in terms of organization. How difficult they make it, how frustrated they can make you.

一旦你注意力不集中，他们就会惩罚你。我们设法保持稳定，打出了必须的比赛。上半场我们有些受阻，但还是找到了进球的方法。下半场我们进攻更好，更流畅。但1-0领先时，我们知道必须承受压力，因为本赛季任何球队都需要进球才能击败对手。

And the moment that you lose that concentration, they will punish you. We have managed to be very stable playing the game that we have to play. In the first half, we were a bit stuck, but we found a way to score a goal. And in the second half, we attacked better, were more fluent. But with one nil, we knew that we had to suffer because a team has to score goals to beat any other opponent this season.

所以保持零封非常重要。克莱夫，对我来说关键就在这里。如果你是一家大俱乐部，你必须擅长进攻。这是必须的。但很多擅长进攻的俱乐部并不享受防守，不享受承受压力，不享受阻止对方得分。

So to keep the clean sheet's very important. And this is the thing for me, Clive. If you're a big club, you have to be good at attacking. You have to. But a lot of clubs that are good at attacking don't enjoy defending, don't enjoy suffering, don't enjoy keeping the other team out.

这是很长时间以来第一支阿森纳队——我是说过去几个赛季的球队，特别是这支队伍——似乎不介意承受压力并阻止对手得分。他们为此庆祝并乐在其中。比赛结束时，马蒂内利、加比、马里诺和约卡塞在自家禁区解围后互相拍背鼓励的样子。这是一次重大的性格考验。

And this is the first arsenal team in a long time. I I mean, this team of the last few seasons, but this team in particular as well, that doesn't seem to mind suffering and keeping the opposition out. There is a celebration of it and enjoyment of it. The the way at the end there when Mascara and Gabby and Marino and Yokrase are in their own box heading away and slapping each other on the back. I mean, there's a this was a big test of character.

有些比赛是对质量的重大考验。这场比赛是对性格的重大考验，而我们通过了考验。

And some some games, it's a big test of quality. This game was a big test of character and to test we passed.

是的。特里，我最多只能说，我认为这支球队专注于不惜一切代价赢得比赛。目前我们的防守数据是人们关注的焦点。但你知道，我们在预期进球榜上名列前茅，在其他比赛环节也表现不错。但你知道吗？

Yeah. The most I can say, Terry, I I think this team is focused on winning games by any means necessary. And at the moment, our defensive numbers are the ones that people are highlighting. But, you know, we're top of we're top of the XG table until we're doing okay in other spots of the game. But you know what?

这场比赛关乎其他方面。本赛季这些关键点我们处理得并不理想，人们因此嘲笑我们是软脚虾等等。他们现在仍等着看我们出丑，因为在世人眼中'信任'和'阿森纳'这两个词很难出现在同一个句子里。有几个细节你可以观察到。当我在现场时，我看到了什么就会如实告诉你们。

This game was about something else. And these are the points this season we haven't always managed really well, and people then laugh and say that we're bottlers, etcetera. And they're still waiting for us to fall down right now because trust and arsenal are not two words that are that really coexist in the same sentence to the outside world. So there are a couple of things you can see. And when you when I'm in the ground, I see what I see, and I tell you what I see.

当我在电视上观看时，看到的又是另一番景象。比赛中出现了一个非常有趣的时刻：赖斯在比赛尾声受伤倒地，他的跟腱——脚后跟部位被撞了一下，正在和队医交谈。这时加布里埃尔和廷伯走了过来，他们就像战场上的勇士。

When I watch it on the telly, I see something else. It's a really interesting moment in the game. When Rice is down late in the game and he was injured, he he, like, got a knock on his Achilles, back of his ankle, and he was sort of talking to the physio. And then Gabriel and Timber come over. They're like the warriors.

对吧？他们围了过来。这三个人往那一站，想突破他们的防线可不容易。赖斯、加布里埃尔和廷伯组成的铁三角。

Right? They come over. So the three of them together, good luck getting past those three. Right? Rice, Gabriel, and Timber.

他们很清楚自己的角色。明白吗？他们是冲锋陷阵的先锋，是镇守防线的门神，就是这样的存在。

And they know what they are. Right? They are the frontmen. They are the bouncers. They are it.

对吧？你继续看。那两人走到赖斯身边说'你说得对'，而他正指着自己的腿。

Right? You go. And the two of them come over to Rice. They say, you're right. And he's pointing at his leg.

'确定吗？真需要下场？'他当时的反应像是'我们必须坚持住'，那场景就像学生要找借口离开教室——懂我意思吗？

You sure? You sure you need to go? He's like, we need to hold on here. And he almost had to almost, like, get an excuse to leave the class. Do you know what mean?

'离开教室'——当时就是那种感觉。明白吗？就像在说'我们同进退，你说得对'。

Leave the class. It felt like that. You know? And it's like, we're in this together. You're right.

你确定吗？就像这样。然后雷诺上场了，这就是我完全不同的地方。雷诺和他，卡皮上场了，他们直接把所有机会都抢走了。虽然场面不太好看，但伙计，欣卡皮在禁区晚些时候来了个鱼跃冲顶。

You sure? Like this. And then Reno comes on, and this is where I'm I'm completely different. Reno and and him Cappy come on, And, well, they just take it all up. Now it weren't it weren't pretty, but, mate, there's a diving header from Hincapi late in the box.

他好像已经在这儿待了很久。我当时想，那是谁？那球飞出去了。你知道吗？那是谁？

Like, he'd been here for ages. I thought, who's that? That flew out. You know? Who's that?

我们都在翻看节目单。那是谁？你知道吗？他就那么突然冲出来。我当时想，你能为我做什么，结果你就这么一头扎进去了。

We were all looking at our programs. Who was that? You know? Like, he just sort of flew out. I thought, what you're gonna do for me, you just thrown your head in there.

接着，马里诺在禁区边缘解围。下半场快结束时，他们在前场区域对加布里埃尔各种纠缠。我当时就想，天啊。他被过掉了。结果马里诺不知从哪儿突然跳起来，干净利落地头球解围，为第二落点争抢创造了机会，完全掌控了中路区域。

And then, Marino clears edge that that box clearance. And late in the second half, they ragged all Gabriel about at the front zone. And so I'm thinking, oh, crikey. He's gone past him. And Marino just jumps out of the jumps out of his boots out of nowhere and just heads away clean, there for the seconds, all there for the seconds, crush that central zone.

他们就是为这个设计的。你说的那些回追跑动，他们不是直线回防。他们会跑回14区，知道对手还会攻到那里，然后集中兵力在中路形成压制。他们的补防跑位角度非常出色。防守投入度堪称顶级中的顶级。

They're designed to this. Those recovery runs that you speak about, they don't just run back in straight lines. They run back to zone 14 knowing that's where they're gonna come back to, and they get there and overwhelm people centrally. The covering running angles are excellent. The defensive commitment is top of top of top of the scale.

我觉得他们开始享受这个过程了。他们在防守端很清楚自己的位置，现在这已经成为一种使命。在我们那些进攻球员回归前，这必须成为使命，因为这场比赛暴露了我们的进攻短板。人们讨论我们如何克服困难，却没意识到这个位置因人员短缺存在的缺陷——我们太需要他们回归了。这周我会重点关注这个。

And I think they're starting to enjoy it. I think they're they know where they are defensively, and now it's become a cause. And until we get those attackers back, it needs to be a cause because we saw in this game where we are attacking wise. And people, they talked about how we're overcoming it without realizing our deficiencies in this space with the lack of personnel, and we need them back so badly. You know, that's gonna be my thing this week.

他们什么时候能回来？这样我们才能成为攻守两端都明确的球队。当然我不是在意外界看法——以前会在意，但这支球队只在乎胜利，所以无论用什么方式，我都和他们站在一起。

When are they coming back so we can be defined as a as a team both sides of the ball, shall we say, more clearly? Not that I'm bothered about our outward perceptions. I used to be because this team is bothered about winning, and so I'm with them however we do it.

是的，就是这样。我是说，让我直接告诉你这个坏消息。无论我们做什么，赢了会有人批评我们怎么赢的，输了又会有人说我们根本不是我们自认为的冠军争夺者。

Yeah. That's it. I I mean, let me just break the bad news to you. Whatever we do, if we win, there's gonna be critique of how we won. And if we lose, there's gonna be critique that we're not actually the title contenders we thought we were.

所以是否要专注于此是你的决定。但让我告诉你什么是确定的。埃布雷赫特对阵水晶宫一定会进球，我们会在乔治·格拉汉姆的注视下1-0获胜。这两件事是板上钉钉的。所以你看，我们做到了。

So it's your decision whether to zero in on it or not. But let me tell you what was guaranteed. Ebrecht as it was gonna score against Palace, and we were gonna win one nil with George Graham in the stands. Like, those were the two things that were guaranteed. So, you know, we got it.

这是阿森纳的传统。这是一场重大胜利，关键在于——未来会有充满乐趣的日子。人们总说'阿森纳啊，无聊的阿森纳'。

It was Arsenal heritage. It's a huge win, and and this is the thing. There are going to be fun flowing days. I mean, people act as, oh, Arsenal. Boring, Arsenal.

我们刚4-0大胜莱斯特城。人们的记忆就像金鱼一样短暂。有机会我们就踢，没机会我们创造机会。这支球队兼具多面性和韧性，但蒂姆，我们确实需要球员保持健康。

I we just beat that Letty four nil. It's like people's memories are goldfish short. When there's a chance to play, we play. When there's not a chance to play, we find a way through. You know, there is a a versatility and a resilience to this team, but we do need our our players fit, Tim.

我认为这期播客该以展望未来和探讨现实目标作结。接下来我要说的话会让所有人抓狂——本赛季我只关心两件事：欧冠和英超。但这不代表我要求别人也不在乎其他赛事。

And I think where this podcast ends is with a quick look ahead and a question about what is realistic. This is where I say the thing that drives everybody crazy. I care about two things this season. The Champions League and the Premier League are the only two things I care about. And I am that does not mean I'm telling other people not to care about other stuff.

但显然阿尔特塔不得不因病换下萨卡，萨利巴也在本场被换下。他说是两处问题：赖斯不确定是小腿还是跟腱受伤——这两处听着都不妙。

But Mikel Arteta obviously had to take Saka off in this game ill. Saliba came off in this game. He said it was two things. Rice, he said, I'm not sure if it's his calf or his Achilles. Neither of those things sounds great to me.

希望他在撒谎。总之赖斯下场了，萨利巴下场了，萨卡下场了，哈弗茨也没恢复状态。

Hopefully, he's fibbing. So Rice came off. Saliba came off. Saka came off. Kai's not fit.

纳尼状态不佳，厄德高也无法上场。而周中我们还要在联赛杯中对阵布莱顿。嗯... 说到底，无论你多么想挺起胸膛强调奖杯的重要性，我们都必须看清当前的形势，决定是否愿意拿这个正在绽放的美好赛季去冒险。

Nani's not fit. Odegaard's not fit. And we play Brighton in the league cup in midweek. Mhmm. At some point, no matter how much you wanna puff out your chest and say trophies matter, you have to look at what's on offer for us and decide how willing you are to take risks with a beautiful season that's developing here.

所以在我看来，这场对布莱顿的比赛应该给所有缺乏上场时间的球员机会。包括恩卡皮尔、迈尔斯（如果你想派他上场的话）、马斯卡拉，还有本·怀特。

So for me, this Brighton game is about given all the players minutes who haven't had minutes. It's about Encapier. It's about Miles if you wanna play him. It's about Mascara. It's about Ben White.

还有伊桑，如果你想的话也可以考虑马克斯。诺加德和马里诺也该上场——虽然我不会选约克里斯，但说实话我也不知道还能派谁。是的。

It's about Ethan. It could be about Max if you want it to be. It's about Norgard, Marino. I'd say not Yokriss, but I genuinely have no idea what else what else we do. Yeah.

现在马丁内利也受伤了，可能没法指望他。但听着，我...我在看...我可能太理想化了。指望阿尔特塔做出11处轮换？或许他别无选择。但我是不是又犯了老毛病，像往常一样说着艾略特式的蠢话？毕竟这是杯赛，我们不该轻视它？

And Martinelli is now injured too, so maybe it can't be him. But I'm telling you, I and I look. I'm being unrealistic. The idea that Mikel's gonna make 11 changes, I mean, may maybe he will because he won't have a choice. But am am I being my silly, typical, nonsensical Elliott, and this is a cup, and we shouldn't dismiss it?

你对周三这场比赛怎么看？

How do you feel about this Wednesday game?

不，我完全支持派所谓的'二线阵容'上场。我觉得他们实力不错，而且有些球员确实需要比赛时间保持状态，这很合理。大概有七八个位置可以轮换。

No. I I'm all up for playing, you know, quote, unquote, the second 11. I think they're good. Anyway, I think there are players who need the minutes, keeps people involved, and that's all good. Like, there are seven or eight positions.

我们没问题。凯帕会首发，很好。后防线会是怀特、马斯卡拉、辛卡帕伊...抱歉说重了，还有刘易斯·斯凯利。然后在他们前面安排诺加德。

We got no problem. Kepa's gonna play. Great. Back four is gonna be White, Mascara, Hinkapay, and Hinkapay, sorry, and Lewis Skelly. And then we're gonna have Norgard in front of them.

就像刚才说的，我们都知道会发生什么。我觉得米歇尔·马里诺很可能要打前锋，这样一来埃泽可能也会上场。说实话，我对他逐步融入球队的进程还算满意。希望他别受伤，不过我觉得上场时间对他不会有影响。

Like, back there, we know what's gonna happen. Michel Marino's probably gonna have to play up front, I think. So that brings so I I think Eze might play. And and, actually, I'm kind of alright with that in terms of his continued, like, progression into the team. I don't you know, hopefully, wouldn't get injured, but I don't think the minutes will hurt him at all.

但接下来我们得做些艰难决定，因为锋线缺员严重，这才是棘手之处。比如周三对阵布莱顿时，边锋人选就捉襟见肘——萨卡或达尔曼必须首发，因为没有其他人选了，对吧？

But then we've got some decisions to make because of the amount of forwards we've got missing, and this is where it gets dicey. Because when you try and select your team for Brighton on Wednesday, those players are reeled off. You get through very easily. When you get into the wide positions, one of Saka or Dalman has to start because there's nobody else. Right?

这个决定必须做出。阿尔特塔看待波特瓦尔的方式——当时是萨卡首发，但六十分钟就换下，让萨卡和达尔曼轮换上场。不过在波特瓦尔客场情况完全不同，因为领先时可以让达尔曼替补上场，但对阵布莱顿可能就没这种机会了。

So that that's a decision that has to be made. I you know, maybe Arteta I'm sure the the way Arteta looked at that Port Vale, it was Saka that started, but you got him off on sixty minutes, and they kinda shared between Saka and Dalman to kind of imagine they'd want to do here. But at the same time, away at Port Vale, that's a very different thing because you can make that plan thinking we're probably gonna be ahead on sixty minutes. So we probably can bring Dalman in. Probably not gonna might not be the case against Brighton.

我们可能落后也可能平局。进攻端现在伤兵满营，虽然还没到无人可用的地步，但确实很接近了——特别是让马里诺打前锋会削弱中场轮换深度。

We we might be trailing. We might be drawing. And and so, you know, some of those decisions kinda have to be made as well. But in attack, we do have a lot of injuries at the moment. And we're not quite at the running out of players stage, but we're getting relatively close, particularly, like because we're gonna have to play Marino up front, really, which takes away perhaps a little bit of midfield rotation.

大概有八九个位置没问题，但有几个决定无论怎么做都可能引发不满。实际上看看阵容，可选之人真的不多。

So I think there's eight or nine spots. There's no problem. But there's there's a couple of decisions that I think either way people are probably not gonna like. And, actually, when you look at it, there aren't a lot of choices for who's gonna play

比如右翼位置。布莱顿很强，他们甚至可能在全主力应战时在酋长球场赢我们——虽然我觉得不会，但他们确实有这个实力。

on the right wing, for example. Yeah. And Brighton are good, and they could come to the Emirates and win against our our full strength side. I don't think they would, but they could. They're they're a good team.

如果派替补阵容，我们可能会被淘汰出杯赛。至于这个可能性...我保留意见。但克莱夫，我一直强调：这赛季成败就看英超和欧冠两项锦标，其他都是锦上添花。

If we go with a weakened team, there's a chance we get knocked out of this cup. Now I'll keep count my counsel on what I think about that possibly happening. But I've always said it, Clive. This season is gonna be evaluated on two cups, the Premier League title and the the Champions League. And everything else is a nice to have.

我会不会也同时拿下足总杯和联赛杯？当然。但关键在于我之前提到的那两项赛事。这将是我们评估米哈伊尔、这支队伍以及整个项目的标准。考虑到伤病情况，你知道，这对米克尔来说会是个有趣的抉择。

Would I take an FA Cup and a League Cup with it too? Of course. But it's what we do in the first two I mentioned. That's how we're going to evaluate Mikhail, this group, and this project. So given the injuries, you know, it's going to be an interesting decision for Mikel.

现在你可能会说，伯恩利客场不算最艰难的赛程。桑德兰——我想是国际比赛周前我们另一个客场——看起来正逐渐变成一场极其严峻的考验。他们这周末又表现得非常出色。所以对我来说情况就是这样。还有布拉格斯拉维亚的欧战客场从来都不轻松，但但还算可控。

Now you could say, well, Burnley away is not the toughest fixture. Sunderland, I think, is the other game we have away before the international break, and that's looking increasingly like a really, really stiff test. They were fantastic again this weekend. So it's it is the case for me. And and the Slavia Prague game, you know, away in Europe is never easy, but but it's manageable.

所以这四场比赛里，轮换的可能性或许比其他情况下更大。但你会怎么处理这场？假设你是阿尔特塔，克莱夫，你来选阵容。你告诉我该怎么排兵布阵。你会怎么安排？

So it's four games where maybe more rotation will be possible than would have been under other circumstances. But how would how would you approach this one? You're Mikel Arteta saying, Clive, you pick the team. You tell me how to set up for it. How would you approach this?

不，这场我会尽可能轮换。我会把这场我重视的比赛和布拉格斯拉维亚之战视为那些球员将获得大量出场时间的场合。这就是我向队员解释轮换策略的方式。

No. I'd rotate as much as possible for this one. I'd look at this game I love you. And this Slavia Prague game as almost like games where those players are gonna get a lot of minutes in those games. And I would that's how I would sell the squad rotation to them.

我认为让他们感受到参与感很重要。听着伙计，我从来都不是联赛杯的粉丝，长期以来一直如此。而且

I think it's important that they they do feel involved. Hey, mate. I I'm not a fan of the League Cup. Never have been for a long time. And

嗯。

Mhmm.

一月份的两回合半决赛，现在欧冠在一月份也有两场比赛。我完全不想应付这些。懂吗？如果能体面出局，我会接受。即便我会到场观战——虽然不想说希望阿森纳输球——但我希望看到所有球员都能上场。

The the two legged semifinal in January, now the Champions League are two games in January. I I'm not I'm not up for that at all. You know? If there is a nice way where we could go out, I would take it. Even I'm gonna be there, and I I don't wanna say I want Arsenal to lose a game of football, but I wanna see everybody play.

但我不愿看到的是，当我们对阵伯恩利和桑德兰这些极其艰难的客场比赛时，锋线球员因过度使用而状态下滑——要知道接下来几周利物浦和曼城将直接对决，其他争冠对手也会互相厮杀。我们必须赢下这两场联赛，这样才能真正评估我们在积分榜的位置、球队潜力以及争冠可能性，更何况关键球员即将归队。我们目前形势非常有利。

But what I don't wanna see is when we go to Burnley and Sunderland, which are gonna be really, really hard games, we have a group of attackers that are overplayed in the moment, and we need to score goals to win these games at a time when Liverpool and City are playing each other in the next couple of weeks. There's a lot of our rivals playing each other. We need to be winning those two league games. Because if we do, we can have a proper conversation about where we are in the league, what our potential is, are we gonna win it, and with players returning, big players returning to this group. We're in a really strong position.

如果我们不集中精力应对接下来的联赛，就可能再次陷入舆论漩涡。明白吗？若因过度使用导致球员重伤，质疑声又会卷土重来。我绝不允许因联赛杯对阵布莱恩这样的比赛重蹈往年覆辙，所以必须零风险操作。

If we do not focus our minds on the league games coming up, we have a situation where we can be questioned again. You know? If we overplay somebody and they get a a proper injury, we can be questioned again. I don't want no questions being raised that have been raised in previous years for a league cup game against Bryan, and I I can't have that. So no risks.

完全不能冒险。客场打伯恩利绝不会是4-5-1阵型就能应付的，我们心知肚明。还记得上次发生了什么吗？是曼城最后时刻被判点球，还是利物浦最近那场？

No risks at all. Burnley away is gonna be a not a four five one game. We know the drill. We saw what happened. Was it City that's called the last minute of a penalty against them, or was Liverpool coming recently?

利物浦。利物浦。谢谢提醒，蒂姆。其实...等等，我明明看见是蒂姆先...

Liverpool. Liverpool. Thank you, Tim. So basically What? Well, I saw Tim I saw Tim do it.

喂，我可是先注意到蒂姆的，对吧？

Well, you I saw Tim first. Right?

我只记得一件事，而且...算了，那是我私人的回忆。

I remember one thing ever, and I can't even well, it's for me.

当时我就想：天啊，他们那场比赛踢得真不错。桑德兰也信心十足，给自己留足了发挥空间。不得不说他们的引援和训练确实出色。

And and I remember thinking, crikey, that they look quite good in that game. You know? And and Sunderland, they fancy themselves, and they and they've given themselves room to have a go. You know? Real, you know, great exercise and recruitment of Sunderland.

所以这两场比赛可能会非常艰难。明白吗？因此要保护好我们的进攻火力，保持我们的新鲜感，因为我认为我们需要那种新鲜感带来的优势。而桑德兰和伯恩利这赛季都没有欧洲赛事要踢。

So these can be two really hard games. You know? And so protect our offensive power. Protect our freshness, because I think we're gonna need that edge of freshness. And Sunderland not traveling anywhere in Europe, neither at Burnley.

你知道吗？我一直强调，本赛季英超20队中有9支要踢欧战。水晶宫刚打完客场，所以我们才能险胜他们。明白吗？所以，是的，接下来的两场联赛可能会很艰难。

You know? And there are I keep saying it, but there are nine of the 20 teams in Europe this season. Palace had been away, and so we were able to edge it against them. You know? So so, yeah, could be tough two league game.

这就是我现在的想法。

That's where my mind is at the moment.

是的。嗯。克莱夫，我想补充一点，对阵桑德兰和伯恩利时，我们可能又得靠替补球员来锁定胜局或绝杀比赛。

And so Yep. Mhmm. I I'd say about that just to add to that, Clive. Like, Sunderland Burnley, we might have to be bringing people off the bench again to either see the game out or win it for us.

他们会很犀利。

They'll be sharp.