#244：阿里巴巴国际站如何构建Agent-to-Agent商务的未来

而且会有分析师之间的来回对话，涉及不同的时区、不同的文化和语言。

And there are going to be analyst back and forth conversations, different time zones, different cultures and languages.

在这种情况下，人工智能可以帮上大忙。

In there, that AI can help a lot.

所以我们相信，B2B会变成A2A，也就是代理对代理。

So we believe that the b to b will go to a to a, so agent to agent.

那将是未来的趋势。

That will be the future.

欢迎收听《AI转型》，这是《人工智能秀》的一个特别系列。

Welcome to AI Transformations, a special series from the Artificial Intelligence Show.

我是迈克·卡普特，SmarterX和营销AI研究所的首席内容官，也是你们的主持人。

I'm Mike Kaput, chief Content Officer at SmarterX and Marketing AI Institute, and I'll be your host.

每个企业的AI转型之路都不一样。

Every business's AI journey looks different.

在每一集中，我都会与那些经历过真实AI转型的领导者们坐下来聊聊，包括真实的故事、推动他们行动的那些痛点、事情开始有起色的那一刻，以及他们今天能展示的成果。

In each of these episodes, I sit down with leaders who have lived through real AI transformation, including the actual stories, the pain points that push them to act, the moment things started to click, and the results they can point to today.

所以，欢迎加入我们，一起加速AI普及，这是我们AI转型系列的一部分。

So join us as we accelerate AI literacy for all as part of our AI transformations series.

欢迎大家收听《人工智能秀》第244期。

Welcome everyone to episode 244 of the Artificial Intelligence Show.

我是迈克·卡普特，人工智能秀的联合主持人，也是SmarterX的首席内容官。

I am Mike Kaput, cohost of the Artificial Intelligence Show and chief content officer here at SmarterX.

今天，我们继续之前一直在做的特别系列，叫做“AI转型”。

Now today, we are continuing a special series that we've been running called AI Transformations.

这个系列聚焦的是，真实公司如何利用AI推动真正的变革。

This is where we spotlight how real companies are driving real change using AI.

我们最初推出AI转型时，计划了六集，挑选了一些我们特别想讲的故事。

Now, we actually launched AI Transformations with this initial six episode run where we had some select stories we knew we wanted to tell.

但值得讲的转型故事远不止六个，所以我们会继续这个系列，在《人工智能秀》中直接带来更多这样的对话。

But there are far more than six transformation stories worth telling, so we are continuing the series and bringing you more of these conversations directly as part of the artificial intelligence show.

现在，这个系列的核心前提还是一样的。

Now the premise here remains the same.

AI转型可能听起来很抽象。

AI transformation can feel abstract.

很多公司都在谈论它。

Plenty of companies talk about it.

但真正展示出在真实组织中，有真实团队、真实限制和真实业务成果的案例却少得多。

Far fewer show what it actually looks like inside real organizations with real teams, real constraints, and real business outcomes.

所以在这一系列节目中，我们直接与正在做这些工作的领导者对话。

So in these episodes, we are talking directly to the leaders doing the work.

我们将探讨他们具体的AI转型，公司内部AI工作的实际情况，在AI采用和创新过程中遇到的困难，以及AI开始带来的成果。

We're going to explore their particular AI transformations, what AI work looks like inside the company, what got difficult along the way when it comes to AI adoption and innovation, and what kind of results AI is starting to unlock.

今天，我们邀请到的领导者是张阔，他是阿里巴巴国际站的总裁。张阔将在这里谈论阿里巴巴国际站如何利用AI和智能体，重新思考企业家和小企业如何参与全球贸易。

So today, the leader we are talking to is Kuo Zhang, who is president of alibaba.com Kuo is here to talk about how alibaba.com is using AI and agents to rethink how entrepreneurs and small businesses participate in global commerce.

在进入今天的对话之前，本期节目由MAICON赞助，这是我们的营销AI大会，面向营销和商业领导者，将于10月13日至15日在我们的总部所在地俄亥俄州克利夫兰举行。

So before we get into today's conversation with Kuo, the this episode is brought to you by MAICON, our Marketing AI Conference for marketing and business leaders happening October thirteenth to the fifteenth right here in our home base of Cleveland, Ohio.

我们预计会有数千名具有前瞻性思维的AI领导者参加。

We are expecting thousands of AI forward leaders here.

如果你在节目发布时听到这段，距离MAICON开幕已经不到两周了。

We are less than two weeks away from MAICON if you are listening to this when it drops.

所以如果你一直在考虑参加，现在就是行动的时候了。

So if you have been thinking about joining us, this is the time to make it happen.

我们将汇聚众多人士，进行为期三天的主题演讲、分论坛、工作坊和对话，探讨组织如何采用、运营和扩展AI。

We are gonna bring together so many people for three days of keynotes, sessions, workshops, and conversations about how organizations are adopting, operationalizing, and scaling AI.

你会听到真实案例研究、实用框架，以及来自当前在公司一线工作的人的直接经验。

So you'll hear real world case studies, practical frameworks, and direct lessons from the people doing the work inside companies today.

如果你是播客听众，结账时使用代码pod 100购买MAICON门票，可以节省100美元。

If you are a podcast listener, use the code pod 100 at checkout for your MAICON ticket to save a $100 on your pass.

更酷的是，使用这个代码还能确保你在播客听众专属午餐会上有一席之地，届时我的另一位联合主持人、我们的CEO兼创始人Paul Rateser和我将花一个小时回答你关于AI、你的公司、你的职业，以及你在广阔而精彩的AI世界中想探索的任何问题。

Now, what's really cool is that using this code will also reserve your place at our private lunch for podcast listeners where Paul Rateser, my other co host, our CEO and founder, and I will spend an hour answering your questions about AI, your company, your career, whatever you're trying to navigate in the wide, wonderful world of AI.

所以座位有限。

So seats are limited.

房间满员时，优惠就结束了。

The offer closes when the room is full.

所以请尽快使用这个代码。

So use that code as soon as possible.

去 maicon.ai 注册，我们期待十月十三号到十五号在克利夫兰见到你。

Go to maicon.aai, maicon.ai, to register, and we hope to see you October thirteenth to the fifteenth here in Cleveland.

今天，我请到了阿里巴巴国际站的总裁郭坤。

So today, I am joined by Kuo Zhang, president of alibaba.com.

大多数人听到阿里巴巴这个名字，可能会想到更大的阿里巴巴集团。

Now when most people hear the name Alibaba, they probably think about the much larger Alibaba Group.

阿里巴巴国际站是那个组织的一个特定部分，也是整个公司的起点。

Alibaba.com is a specific part of that organization, and it is where the entire company began.

阿里巴巴国际站于1999年上线，是阿里巴巴集团的第一个业务。

Alibaba.com launched in 1999 as Alibaba Group's first business.

如今，它是一个全球性的企业对企业电商平台，帮助创业者以及中小型企业寻找供应商、采购产品、进行交易，并管理国际贸易的各个环节。

Today, it is a global business to business commerce platform that helps entrepreneurs and small and mid sized businesses find suppliers, source products, conduct transactions, and manage different parts of international trade.

在2026财年，阿里巴巴国际站报告称，来自190多个国家的超过4700万买家使用该平台寻找商机或完成交易。

For the fiscal year 2026, alibaba.com reported that more than 47,000,000 buyers from over 190 countries had used the platform to source business opportunities or complete transactions.

它还有超过24万名付费会员。

It also had more than 240,000 paying members.

郭先生自2017年起担任阿里巴巴国际站的总裁。

Kuo has served as president of alibaba.com since 2017.

他的职业生涯始于IBM和微软，担任计算机科学家，之后于2011年加入阿里巴巴，负责淘宝的商家平台和工具。

He began his career as a computer scientist at IBM and Microsoft before joining Alibaba in 2011, where he worked on merchant platforms and tools for Taobao.

自从接管阿里巴巴国际站以来，他帮助推动了平台从主要的企业名录向支持交易、支付、物流、营销及其他全球贸易环节的转型。

Now since taking over Alibaba dot com, he has helped lead its evolution from what was primarily a directory of business listings into a platform that supports transactions, payments, logistics, marketing, and other parts of global commerce.

现在，他正领导阿里巴巴国际站视为下一次重大转型的方向，即迈向由人工智能驱动的代理对代理商务。

Now he is leading what alibaba.com sees as its next major transformation, the move towards AI powered agent to agent commerce.

这一旅程始于2024年11月，推出了Accio，一个专为企业买家打造的AI驱动的搜索和采购引擎，我们今天将讨论这一话题。

That journey, which we'll talk about today, began in November 2024 with Accio, an AI powered search and sourcing engine built for business buyers.

此后，它已发展成你可以想象成一支由专业AI代理组成的团队，服务于创业者和中小企业。

It has since evolved into what you can think of as a team of specialized AI agents for entrepreneurs and small businesses.

因此，这些代理不仅仅是回答问题或推荐下一步行动，而是能够将商业目标分解为具体任务，并帮助执行这些任务。

So rather than answering simply questions or recommending next steps, these agents can break a business goal into specific tasks and help execute them.

比如市场调研、产品采购、供应商谈判、店铺运营、营销、物流和合规这些方面。

Things like market research and product sourcing to supplier negotiations, store operations, marketing, logistics, and compliance.

现在，超过一千万家小企业使用Accio Work来运营他们的业务，在最近三个月里，总共消耗了十万亿个AI令牌。

Now more than 10,000,000 small businesses now use Accio Work to run their operations, collectively consuming 1,000,000,000,000 AI tokens over a recent three month period.

这些数字确实很惊人，但更重要的是它们可能意味着什么。

Now those are significant numbers, but the bigger story here is what they could represent.

阿里巴巴国际站正在探索，能否从一个人们浏览的市场，转变为一个运营平台，让智能体越来越多地代表用户进行交易，并最终与其他代表买家、卖家和服务提供商的智能体互动。

Alibaba.com is exploring now whether it can evolve from a marketplace that people navigate into an operating platform where agents increasingly help conduct commerce on their behalf and eventually interact with other agents representing buyers, sellers, and service providers.

所以今天我们要探讨这个转变是如何开始的，Accio Work具体做什么，客户如何使用它，以及阿里巴巴国际站内部需要做出哪些改变。

So we're going to explore today how this transformation began, what Accio Work actually does, how customers are using it, and what had to change inside alibaba.com.

另外，我们还会聊聊一路上遇到的困难，以及智能体对智能体的商业对全球商业的未来意味着什么。

Not to mention, we'll chat about what has been difficult along the way and what agent to agent commerce could mean for the future of global business.

郭总，欢迎来到我们的节目。

Kuo, welcome to the show.

非常感谢你来到这里和我们交流。

Thank you so much for being here with us.

谢谢你帮我。

Thank you for helping me.

你做了很多研究。

You did a lot of research.

我们尽力了。

We tried.

我们尽力了。

We tried.

现在有了智能助手帮忙做研究，事情容易多了。

You know, it gets a lot easier these days when agents can help you with the research, think.

我们肯定会聊到这个的。

We'll talk about that, I'm sure.

确实是这样。

So That's true.

在我们深入讨论这个大故事、这个大变革之前，我得问问这个产品的名字。

Before we get into this broader story, this broader transformation, I have to ask about the name, of the product.

Accio，拼写是A-C-C-I-O，在拉丁语里是“召唤”的意思。

So Accio, a c c I o, is Latin for I summon.

而且阿里巴巴在采访中也直接说过，这个名字是致敬《哈利·波特》里的召唤咒。

And Alibaba has actually said in interviews outright, the name is a reference to the summoning charm in Harry Potter.

我很好奇，为什么这个名字适合你们正在做的事情？

I'm just curious why was this the right name for what you're building here?

Accio，你觉得怎么解释合适呢？

So Accio, what do you say is right?

它在拉丁语里是“召唤”的意思。

It's Latin for I summon.

同时也是《哈利·波特》里的召唤咒。

And also is the kind of the summon charm in Harry Potter.

就是你说出名字，东西就能到你手里。

It's just you kind of say name and you can bring to you.

所以我们用这个名字，是因为一开始设计Accio的时候，就像你有一个词，或者一些想法，我们可以用AI和全球供应链帮你实现梦想。

So we use this name because in the beginning when we design Accio, it's like you have a word, or you have some thoughts, and we can use AI and global supply chain help you to make your dream come true.

所以它有点像Accio。

So it's some kind of Accio.

而且，在Accio这个名字里，也包含了AI的意思。

And also, in Accio, there's AI inside this term.

还有，在阿里巴巴国际站，我们搞了个投票，所有年轻人都特别喜欢这个名字。

And all the young guys in alibaba.com that kind of we we get a vote, and all the young guys love love this this name.

所以我们就选了它作为新产品的名字。

So we just choose this as the new product name.

我喜欢这个。

I love that.

太酷了。

That's so cool.

那我们就从宏观层面开始聊吧。

So let's start off at a high level.

能不能给我讲讲阿里巴巴国际站通过Accio Work在推进的AI转型，以及这如何改变创业者和中小企业参与全球贸易的方式？

Maybe walk me through the AI transformation that alibaba.com is pursuing through Accio Work, and maybe talk to me a bit about how this is changing the way entrepreneurs and small businesses participate in global commerce.

好的。

Sure.

我们一步一步来。

So we take step by steps.

Accio 大概在两三年前首次推出。

So Accio first launched, I think, two or three years ago.

那时候，AI 还没有现在这么成熟。

And at that time, AI is not as today.

我们是从 AI 搜索开始的。

And we're starting from the AI search.

你可以把它想象成 Google 的 AI 模式或者 AI 概览。

You can think about this like a Google AI mode or AI overview.

我们发现，人们在使用阿里巴巴国际站时，搜索方式跟以前不一样了。

So when we feel that when the people using alibaba.com, they are using it, use the search, a kind of different way than before.

他们越来越多地使用多模态材料，比如图片、文档，而且会用完整的句子来描述需求，而不仅仅是几个关键词或搜索词。

They tend to use more and more multimodal materials, like images, like documentations, and they describe their needs in a kind of sentence, not only a few keywords or queries.

而且借助AI，我们其实更有能力去理解阿里巴巴网站上用户和买家背后的意图。

And leveraging AI, actually, we have more power to understand the intention behind the scene of the users, the buyers on alibaba.com.

我觉得这是第一步。

I think that's the first step.

当我们推出这个产品的时候，我们看到人们实际上在用这个在线代理，也就是在线采购代理，去做很多除了搜索之外的事情。

And when we kind of launch the product, we are seeing people actually using this online agent, the online sourcing agent to do many other things other than search.

比如，他们用这个代理来发展他们的想法。

For example, they are using this agent to develop their ideas.

他们有一些想法，想做市场调研，想看看这个产品是否存在。

They have some ideas, they want to do a market research, they want to see if this product exists.

现有产品有什么缺点，机会在哪里？

Are there kind of shortcomings of the existing product, and what are the opportunities?

然后他们会把这个想法转化成设计包。

And then they will transform this idea into a design pack.

以前，买家跟供应商来回沟通的时候，很多时候他们没法描述清楚他们想做什么东西。

So previously, when the buyers talk with suppliers back and forth, many of the time is that they cannot describe what they are trying to build.

而且借助AI，他们实际上可以为供应商生成一份非常充分且专业的设计方案。

And leveraging AI, actually, they can generate a very sufficient and professional design pack for the suppliers.

当供应商收到Accio生成的设计方案时，他们说从未见过如此专业的买家。

When the supplier receive the design pack generated by Accio, they said they never see a buyer actually is so professional.

这样也减少了很多来回的讨论和争议。

And then it reduce a lot of back and forth discussion and dispute as well.

这就是Accio的起点。

So that is the beginning of the Accio.

所以我们从AI搜索工具这种采购代理开始。

So we start from the AI search tool kind of a sourcing agent.

他们不仅用它来询盘，还用于市场调研，以及等待产品设计的客户或供应商。

And they're using that not only for inquiries, but also for market research, for customer or suppliers waiting for the product design.

随着AI技术或能力的发展，我们也开始用AI来处理谈判部分。

And when the AI technology or power kind of moving on, we are using AI to do the negotiations part as well.

于是AI变成了真正的代理，代表买方的利益。

So the AI become a real agent, represent the benefit or the interest of the buyers.

你可以想象，卖家那边也有自己的智能助手，帮他们做类似的事情。

And you can imagine the seller side has its own agent as well, helping them to do the similar stuff.

这个季度，我们进一步扩展了这个助手的应用范围。

And for this quarter, we kind of expand the scope of this agent further.

我们发现它不仅仅用于采购，还可以作为电商工作空间来使用。

We found that it's not only used for sourcing, it can be used as e commerce workspace.

记得我第一份工作是在淘宝和天猫，为卖家提供各种工具。

So remember, I actually, the first job of mine is in Taobo and Timor, providing all kinds of tools for sellers.

我们看到，AI在电商领域的应用和采购有很多相似之处。

And we see that the AI for e commerce actually has a lot of similarity of the sourcing.

所以你需要管理很多店铺。

So you need to manage many stores.

比如你有Shopify、Amazon、eBay、Etsy这些平台。

Like you have Shopify, you have Amazon, you have eBay, Etsy.

我们遇到的很多卖家，实际上都在不同平台上管理店铺。

And many of the sellers that we met, actually they manage stores across different platforms.

但他们希望把业务当作一个整体来管理，而不是分散在不同的表格里，还要发各种损益表。

But they want to manage the business as one, not in different spreadsheet and send the P and Ls.

而且当他们在Shopify、Amazon、TikTok Shop或者社交媒体上架产品时，他们希望一次搞定，而不是不停地为不同平台更新不同的产品，用不同的图片、视频，还要遵守不同的规则。

And also when they upload a listing on Shopify, on Amazon, on TikTok shop, or on social medias, They want to do it once for all, not kind of keep updating different product to different platforms using different images, videos, applying different rules.

这些都可以由这个代理来处理。

And this can be taken care of by the agent as well.

最后但同样重要的是，Accio实际上是把所有不同的代理整合在一起。

And the last but not least is that Accio actually is aggregate all different agents.

你可以把它们放在一个组里，帮你做深度研究，从了解趋势，到了解竞争对手的机会，还能帮你挖掘谁能生产这个产品，以及损益表会是什么样，利润率会是多少。

And you can put them in a group helping you to do some kind of deep research, from understanding the trend, to understanding your competitors' opportunities, and also helping you to dig actually who can make this, and what's a P and L look like, what's a margin look like.

这对像洛杉矶的中小企业来说，你有一些想法。

And this together for SMBs like in Los Angeles, you have some ideas.

你想采购，想在不同平台发布产品，还想管理日常业务。

You want to source, and you want to list your product in all different platforms, and you want to manage your daily business.

所以这个Accio Work实际上能帮你管理端到端的工作，不仅限于阿里巴巴网站，还包括你所有的店铺前端。

So this Accio Work actually can help you to manage your end to end work, not only on alibaba.com, but also on all your kind of storefronts as well.

所以这就是这个智能体是如何演变的。

So this is how this agent evolves.

哇。

Wow.

所以听起来Accio最初是作为产品搜索，利用AI在alibaba.com上提供更好的搜索，但因为你们看到客户和用户实际上用AI做什么，不仅仅是搜索，还有想法、建议，所以它从那里扩展，变成了能够帮助采购和电商流程中许多不同部分的智能体，当你在建立业务时。

So it sounds like Accio started out as essentially product search using AI for better search on alibaba.com, but because of what you were seeing customers, users actually using the AI for, which wasn't just search, it was ideas, it was advice that it expanded from there to actually become agents that could help with many different parts of the sourcing and ecommerce process when building a business.

而且听起来这后来演变成了Accio Work，作为一个平台，基本上帮助你端到端地运营和建立电商业务。

And it sounds like then that evolved into Accio Work being a platform to essentially help you end to end run and build an e commerce business.

我理解得大致对吗？

Do I have that roughly correct?

是的。

Yes.

而且自从我们今年四月推出Accio Work以来，过去四个月用户使用的令牌数量增长了六倍。

And since we launched Accio Work this April, So the tokens that used by the users actually is six fold for the past four months.

这意味着他们使用这些工具的深度和复杂性比以前高得多。

So that means that they are using these tools much deeper and complex than before.

这个令牌数量也太夸张了。

That's an insane amount of tokens.

所以在你打造 Accio 和 Accio Work 之前，我很好奇，当时……

So before you built Accio and Accio Work, I'm curious what was...

痛点在哪里？

Where was the pain point?

对创业者和中小企业来说，最难的地方是什么？

What was so difficult for entrepreneurs and small businesses?

你刚才稍微提到了一点，说这些智能体在帮助买卖双方沟通。

I mean, you kind of mentioned a little bit the agents are advocating or helping, you know, helping the buyers and the sellers that they're helping communicate between them.

我想知道，你能不能更深入地讲讲，为什么智能体，也就是 AI 智能体，是解决创业者和卖家以及中小企业所面临问题的正确方案？

I'm curious if you could drill a little more into why were agents, AI agents, the right answer here for the problems that entrepreneurs and sellers and small businesses were experiencing.

当然可以。

Sure.

在我们讨论 B2B 之前，我们可以先拿 B2C 做个对比。

So before we talk about B2B, we can do a kind of cooperation with B2C.

这样观众更容易理解。

This is more easy for the audience to understand.

当你买东西的时候，其实也有很多针对B2C代理的实验和探索。

When you buy something, so there are a lot of, I should say, the experiment or explorations for the B2C agent as well.

但大多数都不太成功，因为场景或挑战的问题。

But majority of them is not that successful yet because of the scenarios or the challenges.

所以当你作为消费者买东西时，首先，产品不贵，所以决策成本不高。

So when you are a consumer buy some stuff, the first, the product is not that expensive, so decision is not expensive.

其次，决策的维度也不复杂。

The second is the decision, how to say, the dimensions that you need to make that is not complicated.

通常包括图片、标题、价格、配送时间，大概就这些。

It's in general including the image, title, price, delivery time, probably this is it.

而且很多时候，你买东西是在消磨时间。

And also, many of time when you buy something, you're killing time.

消费其实就是在消磨时间。

Consuming actually is a kill time.

没人会用智能体来打发时间。

Nobody is using agent to kill time.

你也不会让智能体替你去电影院看电影。

You don't send agent to cinema to see a movie for you.

好吧。

Okay.

打发时间这种事，还是得自己来。

You want to kill time yourself.

但在B2B领域，当我们做对比的时候，情况就完全不一样了。

But in the B2B part, when we do the completion, it's completely different.

首先，决策成本很高。

So the first, the decision is expensive.

比如在阿里巴巴国际站上，每笔订单通常都在3000美元左右。

So on alibaba.com, every order kind of in general is about 3,000 US dollars.

所以这个决策的成本是很高的。

So the decision is expensive.

而且需求、决策，决策的过程也很复杂。

And also the demand, the decision, the process of decision is complex.

所以你至少需要比较一下。

So you need to compare at least.

你可以想象一下，有一张表格，至少有20列，从产品名称、价格开始，然后是起订量，接着是证书，再然后是交货时间、付款条件、收入条款等等，很多内容都跟你自己买来用的东西不一样。

You can think about, there's a table with at least 20 columns, starting from the name of the product, price, and then go to the MOQ, then go to the certificate, and then go to the kind of delivery time, payment terms, income terms, and a lot of things is other than kind of you buy something for your own use.

你要么是为了转售而买，要么是因为它是你产品的一部分而买。

You want to buy on the resell, or you want to buy because it's a part of your product.

所以这就涉及很多要求，比消费者那边要复杂得多。

So it's evolved a lot of requirements that is far more complicated than the consumer side.

而且这也是工作的一部分。

And also it's a work.

B2B双方都处于工作环境中。

The B2B for both side, we are in a working kind of environment.

所以采购方是因为要做生意才采购，供应商也是一样。

So they procurement because they need to kind of do a business, and suppliers the same.

所以双方都想用代理来节省时间。

So both part want to use agent to save time.

对人类来说，我们节省时间是为了能消磨时间。

For human beings, we save time so that we can kill time.

所以代理的设计就是为了节省时间这部分。

So agent is designed for save time part.

所以对于B2B，我们认为首先是要解决很多问题，能帮你节省大量时间。

So for the b2b, we think is first is solve a lot of problems, can help you to save a lot of time.

而且还有很多复杂的决策，需要来回反复的工作，这些都可以由代理来处理。

And also there are a lot of complicated decisions, which requires back and forth, repetitive work that can be taken care of by the agent.

就拿一个简单的采购或C来举例，一般来说，从你有了想法到产品送到你手上，大概需要60个步骤。

So taking a very simple procurement, or C as an example, in general, it takes around 60 steps from you have an idea until you get that product delivered to you.

而且会有分析师来回沟通，涉及不同的时区、不同的文化和语言。

And there are going to be analyst back and forth conversations, different time zones, different cultures and languages.

在这些方面，AI对买卖双方都能提供很大的帮助。

In there that AI can help a lot for both party, buyer and supplier.

所以我们相信B2B会走向代理对代理的模式。

So we believe that the B2B will go to a to a, so agent to agent.

那将是未来。

That will be the future.

我很喜欢那个例子。

So I love that example.

那个过程里有整整60个步骤。

There's 60 full steps in that process.

你能……

Can you...

我想再听一两个具体的例子，就是实际的应用方式。

I'd love to hear maybe another example or two from you, just concrete ways.

现在像Accio Work这样的工具，创业者和中小企业是怎么用的？

How are entrepreneurs and small businesses using something like Accio Work today?

我觉得这真的能让人们明白，这个过程中有多少摩擦，而代理可以帮助解决。

I think that really hammers home for people just how much friction there is in this process that agents can help with.

好的。

Okay.

没问题。

Sure.

所以我们其实为此拍了一段视频，如果你已经介绍了我们，并且把它发给那些想要颠覆传统、利用全球供应链的中小企业老板们。

So we actually shoot a video for that, if you have introduced us and So send to just disrupt a kind of, if you are a guy who is leveraging global supply chain, SSMB.

那么总的来说，你日常的生活是什么样的呢？

So in general, what's your daily life look like?

所以你们有一些想法。

So you have some ideas.

比如，如果你想采购一批背包并在英国或美国转售。

For example, if you want to source a mountain back and resell in UK or in US.

然后你需要描述你的需求，就像在邮件或询价单（RFQ）里写的那样。

And then you need to describe what do you need, like in an email or in an RFQ.

接着你把这份需求复制粘贴发给大约100到20家供应商，来回沟通，而且别搞混了这些名字。

And then you copy paste this require to about 100 or 20 suppliers with your requirement, back and forth, and don't mess up this name.

对吧？

Okay?

然后你就等着他们回复。

And then you just wait for their reply.

有的快，有的慢。

Some fast, some slow.

然后你开始用Excel整理，比较所有列，从起订量到价格，到证书，到质量，到重量，你都可以列出来。

And then you start managing Excel to compare all the columns from MOQ to price, to certificate, to quality, to weight, and you can name it.

这种来回沟通大概要持续一周，直到你收集到一张包含几十个供应商回复的表格。

And that kind of conversation back and forth probably for a week, until you gather a spreadsheet with dozens of replies of suppliers.

然后你从中选出大概两三个或五个，开始进一步谈判更具体的条款。

And then you select probably two or three or five of them, you start to further negotiate for further terms.

然后你需要和他们讨论怎么处理贸易术语、交货方式、付款方式，然后你收集产品，来回寄样品。

And then you need to talk with them with how to kind of manage the incoterms, the deliveries, how to pay for them, and then you gather product, you're back and forth on the samples.

这就是那些做海外采购的中小企业日常工作的样子。

And these are the kind of daily work life of SMB, who is sourcing, let's say, overseas.

一般来说，这个过程要花上几周，有时候甚至要几个月。

And in general, that takes for weeks, or sometimes for months.

你从有一个想法开始，然后找到合适的人帮你做出来，最后拿到结果。

You just starting from an idea and then find a right guy who can make it for you and then get the results.

所以有了AI的帮助，你实际上只需要告诉智能代理你的需求是什么，你在找什么样的东西，你的预算是多少。

So with the help of AI, actually what do you need to do is you tell the agent what your needs look like, and what you are kind of looking for, what's your budget look like.

然后智能代理会开始寻找那些特别符合你需求的供应商，并帮你和供应商来回沟通。

And then the agent start looking for the suppliers who specifically match your needs, and help you to communicate back and forth with the suppliers.

他们可以为你生成包含所有你需要的列的项目，可能只需要一天，运气好的话，几个小时就够了。

And they can generate the projects for you with all the columns that you need, probably just within a day, if you're lucky, in hours.

从那里开始，你就可以推进其他沟通，智能代理会一路帮你，最后完成合同。

And starting from there, that you can start to push forward other communications and agent can help you along the way to finish the kind of contract in the end.

有了合适的最小起订量、合适的价格，还有合适的运输方式、贸易术语和付款条件。

So with the right MOQ, right price, and with the right shipment method, Incoterms, and payment terms.

然后我们可以利用贸易保障作为实际的B2B支付方式，帮你保护整个订单。

And then we can leverage trade assurance as actual B2B payment help you to protect the entire order.

这样就让B2B生意比以前顺畅多了。

So that kind of streamline the b2b business a lot of easier than before.

我拿采购来举个例子。

So I just using sourcing as an example.

其实还有很多其他例子。

There are many other examples as well.

你可以想象一下，对于中小企业来说，他们通常没有全球采购的经验，时间和资源都很有限，也不懂那些术语。

So you can imagine that for SMB in general, who don't have the global sourcing experience, very limited time and resources, and don't understand about the terms.

很多时候，他们甚至不知道怎么为产品写设计文档。

And many of the cases, they don't know how to write a design pack for your product.

这个智能助手可以帮你处理所有这些事情，你只需要专注于最重要的问题，比如你要解决什么问题？

The agent can help you to handle all that parts, and you only focusing on the most important question, like what problem you are going to tackle?

你的客户是谁？

Who are your customers?

剩下的就交给智能助手来管理。

And that's agent to help you to manage the rest.

我喜欢那个例子……

I love that exam...

那些例子。

Those examples.

这正好说明，这里有很多很多机会，可以极大地简化和加速贸易流程，尤其是在B2B领域，面对所有这些任务，坦白说，无论是企业、创业者，还是中小企业，甚至是非常擅长采购的人。

That just shows there are so much so much opportunity here to dramatically streamline and speed up the trade process, especially in b to b with all these tasks that frankly, like businesses, entrepreneurs, even SMBs or people who are very expert at sourcing.

没有人愿意在这些任务上花上几个小时、几天、几周的时间。

Nobody wants to be spending hours, days, weeks on these tasks.

他们想回到销售业务本身。

They want to get back to the business of selling.

所以听起来，智能体确实能大大简化这个过程。

So it sounds like agents can really streamline that process.

我很好奇，从宏观层面，你能分享多少就分享多少，是什么样的技术在支撑阿里巴巴的AI转型，包括Accio Work？

I'm curious at a high level with whatever you can share, what kind of technology is powering alibaba.com's AI transformation, including Accio Work?

我们之前大致聊过智能体。

We've talked about agents kind of broadly.

你能再详细说说吗？

Can you maybe go into a little more detail there?

好的。

Okay.

其实我们有一个通用的公式来描述智能体或者Accio的构成。

We have a formula, actually, in general to describe what the agent or Axial is composed of.

智能体等于模型乘以工具乘以上下文。

So agent equals to model times harness times context.

为什么是相乘呢？

So why is it multiplied?

因为如果任何一个要素是零，整个等式就是零。

Because each element is zero, the entire equation is zero.

模型其实包含了很多东西。

So model actually is, how to say, the model includes a lot.

它是智能的核心。

It's intelligence power.

我们正在利用世界上所有前沿模型，包括那个女王。

And we're using, we're leveraging all the frontier models in the world, including the queen.

而且我们还会对女王这种小尺寸模型进行一些后训练，确保它能有和大尺寸前沿模型一样的能力，这都归功于我们使用的后训练技术。

And also we do some post training on the queen, small size model to make sure that it can has the same power of the big size frontier model because of the post training that we use.

我们还做了很多服务方面的工作，以确保我们有更好的缓存命中率，以及更好的模型性能。

And also we do a lot of serving stuff as well, to make sure that we have better cash rate, and we have a better performance of that model.

而那个框架其实也是关键。

And the harness actually is the key as well.

框架包含了所有逻辑、循环、护栏，以及你需要的工具，用来连接和管理多个平台。

The harness contain all this logic, the loops, the guardrails, the tools that you need to contact, connect, like we manage to help the users to manage many platforms.

然后你需要有工具连接到所有这些平台，来聚合数据，帮你上传列表，做市场调研等等。

Then that you need to to have tools connect to all these platforms to aggregate data, help you to upload listings, do the marketing research, so on and so forth.

最后但同样重要的是上下文。

And the last but not least is the context.

上下文包括所有真实的业务数据、你进行的对话，以及来自平台的数据。

The context, including all the real business data, the conversations you have, and also the data from platforms.

数据越广泛，你对背景、趋势和品类的理解就越全面，这样你就能做出更好的决策，得到更好的结果。

The broader the data is, the kind of more broader view of full understanding of the background and the trend and the category, actually, you can have a better decisions and the result out of that.

这就是我们构建的公式，我们也在不断改进它，以打造更好的智能体。

So this is the kind of the formula that we composed and we kind of keep improving on to get the better agents.

为了确保系统持续改进，我们发明了一个基准，叫做“商业智能体基准”。

And to make sure that we are continually improving the system, we invented a bench, we called Commerce Agent Bench.

你知道，现在有各种各样的基准，比如数学、编程等等。

So you know there are all kinds of bench, including mathematics, coding, so on and so forth.

但说到商业环境，它比之前那些基准要复杂得多。

But when we talk about the business environment, a little bit messier than all the bench before.

我们是从数百万次对话中提炼出来的。

And we come, we are kind of distill from millions of conversations.

这些是买家和卖家之间的真实对话，还有不同的执行流程。

I mean, the real conversation between the buyer and the sellers and different execution workflows as well.

我们抽象出了107个不同的任务，以确保覆盖平台上人们进行商业活动的所有类别。

And we abstract 107 different tasks to make sure we cover all the categories where people are doing business on platform.

我们用这个基准来测试不同模型的结果，借助我们的工具框架，用真实的商业场景来确保评估结果可靠、可信，最重要的是，让所有中小企业都能负担得起。

And we're using this bench kind of to test all the result using different models, and leveraging our harness, and using the real context of the real business to make sure that we can evaluate the result actually is a merryable, is reliable, and most importantly, affordable to all the SMBs.

我真的很喜欢这个框架。

I really like that framing.

这个说法很优雅。

That's an elegant way to put it.

所以听起来你们有模型，在阿里巴巴的千问系列模型基础上做了各种不同的后训练，这些模型非常强大。

So it sounds like, you know, you have your model, which is, you know, doing various different types of post training on some version of Alibaba's Quinn family of models, which are extremely formidable.

这就像是你们的原始智能乘以一个工具框架，这个框架是专有的秘密配方，包括代码、逻辑、防护措施，基本上就是围绕模型的所有机制或架构，帮助它按照你们想要的方式自主行动，然后再乘以上下文，也就是阿里巴巴拥有的所有商业数据和领域专业知识等等。

That's kind of your raw intelligence multiplied by a harness, which is kind of the, you know, proprietary secret sauce, bit of code, logic, guardrails, essentially all the machinery or architecture around the model to help it be agentic in the way you want and then multiplied by the context, all the business data, the domain expertise Alibaba has, etcetera.

这是一个非常强大的组合，这也是为什么你不能在其他业务或不同环境中复制这样的东西。

That's a really powerful mix, and it is why you cannot just duplicate something like this in a different business or a different context.

听起来这三个要素一起作用，才让这一切成为可能。

There's these three elements, it sounds like working together to make all of this possible.

完全正确。

Exactly.

我们刚才聊到的内容真是太棒了。

So what we've talked about is amazing.

确实有很酷的成果，比如把智能体应用到电商流程中，尤其是通过阿里巴巴国际站的B2B流程，为顾客、买家和卖家都带来了很棒的结果。

I mean, there's really cool results by saying, okay, applying agents to the ecommerce process, especially a B2B process through alibaba.com is producing awesome results and things for customers, for buyers, for sellers.

但你也提到了这一点，就是你说的A到A，也就是智能体对智能体的交易。

But this also you kind of alluded to this when you said A to A, like agent to agent commerce.

稍微退一步看，你觉得AI智能体会如何大规模地改变商业呢？

Like, stepping back a bit here, how do you think AI agents are actually going to be transforming commerce at large?

这看起来影响深远。

It seems like there's some big implications here.

这会如何改变阿里巴巴国际站自身的业务呢？

How is this changing alibaba.com's own business?

首先，我们思考一下未来会是什么样子。

So the first of all, we we think of in the future, what is going to look like.

我们认为A到A就是答案。

So we think A to A is the answer.

因为供应商和买家双方都希望尽可能节省时间，获得高效的结果。

Since the both party, I mean, the suppliers and the buyers both want to save their time and get efficient result as much as possible.

所以有需求，也有网络效应。

So there are needs, and also there are network effect.

当你拥有一个供应商网络、一个履约供应链网络，以及全球所有的需求时，你知道，当你问全球每一个中小企业，他们是否需要全球供应链？

So when you get a network of suppliers and you have a network of fulfillment supply chains, and you have all the demands in the world, you know that every small and medium business all over the world, when you ask them, do you need global supply chain?

是否需要智能代理团队来帮他们节省时间？

Do you need kind of agentic team to help you to save time?

我觉得我们遇到的所有公司都会回答“是”。

I think it's a yes for all the companies that we meet.

他们之所以没有使用全球供应链或开展全球业务，是因为他们的规模、实力和资源有限。

And why they do not using the global supply chain or do global business is because of their size, power, limited of resources.

如果我们能赋予他们这种能力，让他们能够接入，我相信每一个中小企业都能释放全部潜力。

If we can kind of give them this power to access, I think every small SMBs can unleash their full power.

因为他们了解本地业务，了解本地需求。

Since they understand the local business, they understand the local needs.

这意味着我们可以拥有更广泛的客户和用户群体。

And that means that we can have a more broader audience of our customers, the users.

所以需求端永远是第一位的。

So always comes first from the demand side.

当需求端越来越大时，我们也能把全球的供应端聚合起来。

So when the demand side is getting larger and larger, we can kind of aggregate the supply side all over the world as well.

所有供应商都希望获得更多业务。

So all the suppliers, they want to get more business.

他们越是提供真实业务数据、真实生产能力，就越容易连接到这个网络。

And the more that they review, actually encrypt the buy agent or provide their real business data, provide their real kind of manufacturer capabilities that is more easier for them to connect to this network.

当代理与代理协同工作时，效果更像是乘法。

And when the agent to agent kind of working together is more like a multiply.

这不像搜索引擎，我只会返回一些结果。

It's not like a search engine, I recall some of the results.

比如我有几十万供应商，但只给你一千个，通过排名机制，你只能和其中几十个沟通，因为你的时间有限。

For example, I have hundreds of thousands of suppliers, I only give you 1,000, and using this kind of ranking mechanism, and you can only talk to dozens of them, since you don't have enough time.

但是当A到A的网络协同起来时，它很容易帮你对接一个更大的网络，而且更容易找到最符合你需求、预算和时间安排的最佳匹配。

But when the A to A network work together, it's easily help you to kind of map with much huge network, and it's much easier for you to kind of get the best match with your requirement, your budget, with your timing.

而且对我们来说，也更容易从全球的需求和供应中得出更好的结果。

And it's much easier for us to kind of get a better result out of the demand and supply requirements in the world.

所以我觉得如果从这个角度看，这比我们现在做的搜索引擎式业务要大得多。

So I think if we think about that way, that is much bigger than what we are doing today using the search engine like business.

所以

So

技术只是这种转型的一部分，无论是在行业层面，还是在你为客户带来的价值方面。

the technology is really one part of a transformation like this, both in the industry and with what you're enabling for customers.

我对alibaba.com很好奇。

I'm curious about looking at alibaba.com.

比如，当你们从试验AI转向完全围绕智能体来构建和运营产品及工作流时，公司内部需要做出哪些改变？这可能对公司的运作方式、人才管理都有影响。

Like, what had to change inside the company as you move from experimenting with AI to building and operating products and workflows entirely around agents that probably has some implications for how your company operates, how talent works?

我想知道你能不能给我们详细讲讲。

I'm curious if you could unpack that for us.

当然可以。

Sure.

那我就尽量多跟你讲讲。

So I just try to tell you as much as possible.

首先，Accio 是阿里巴巴内部的一个独立团队或公司。

But the first thing is that Accio operates as a setup team or company within Alibaba Okay.

你可以想象，alibaba.com 有自己的节奏和商业模式。

You can imagine that alibaba.com has its own pace, has its own business model.

而且，因为我们是一家上市公司，它也有自己的规划。

And also, since we are a public company, that it has its own plans as well.

而 Accio 或 Accio Work 是完全不同的存在。比如，alibaba.com 每两周或每两个月更新一次功能，因为那个系统已经运行了二十六年，就像你提到的。

Where Accio or Accio Work is a completely different creature that, for example, alibaba.com has a feature update biweekly or bimonth, since that system already exists for twenty six years, as you mentioned.

它从1999年就开始了。

It started from 1999.

所以每增加一个功能，你都需要与现有功能兼容，并且不能影响那些不熟悉新功能的客户。你需要做大量的A/B测试，并且任何未来的功能上线都需要经过很多审批。

So every feature that you add on, you need to be compatible with the existing features and does not impact the customers who is not familiar with, you do need to have a lot of AB test and have a lot of kind of sign off for any future goal line.

嗯，Accio 和 Accio Work 是每天都会更新版本的。

Well, Accio and Accio Work is, it has a version by daily basis.

所以每天都会有一个新版本。

So every day, it has a new version.

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

每天早上我起来的第一件事就是升级这个软件或者这个智能体，看看有什么新功能。

Every morning that I get up, the first thing is that I upgrade this software or this agent to see what's new there.

因为这个智能体很多功能都是自己写的，它会从日常执行环境中收集各种信息和需求。

Since the agent actually, many of the features they write themselves, it gathers all the informations, the requirements from all this kind of daily execution environments.

然后排名，实际上，人们会帮忙排名、修复 bug，很多代码都是它自己写的。

And it's ranking, actually, people help to ranking and to fix the bugs and kind of a lot of coding is written by themselves.

所以它的发展速度不一样。

So it's just evolved in a different pace.

另外，我们需要把两者整合起来，要想想 alibaba.com 是这个智能体的一部分，对吧？

And also, what we need to integrate two together is think about alibaba.com is part of harness of this agent, right?

我们得先把网站做好，才能让这些服务客户端都能用上。

We need to get this website first to get it all this services client.

它才能被调用。

It can be invoked.

这样这个代理就能轻松地使用和利用它。

This can be used, leveraged by this agent easily.

所以它不只是为人类设计的，也是为代理设计的。

So it's not only designed for human, but it's also designed for agent as well.

这两个工具需要同时工作。

And these two two tools need to work simultaneously.

现在我们正在把Accio整合回阿里巴巴网站。

And now we are kind of integrating Accio back to alibaba.com.

我们称之为AI模式。

We call it the AI mode.

好的。

Okay.

也就是说，所有用户都可以把阿里巴巴当作自己的代理来使用。

Meaning that all the users can use alibaba.com as an agent for them.

所以我们是从一个创业团队开始，逐步创建这个业务的。

So we started from a startup team to kind of create this business.

同时，我们也利用现有的工程团队对整个平台进行升级，让它更容易被代理使用。

And also, we are kind of using the existing engineering team to kind of give the whole platform upgrade that so that it easy to be used by the agent.

现在我们正在把这两个产品整合在一起。

And now we are integrating the two product together.

这样，阿里巴巴上的所有用户也能轻松访问Accio。

So all the users on alibaba.com easy to kind of assess to the to Accio as well.

所以这是在阿里巴巴内部逐步推进的。

So it's a step by step approach within alibaba.com.

这真的很吸引人。

That's really fascinating.

所以听起来Accio Work就像是阿里巴巴内部的一个创新中心、实验室或业务部门。阿里巴巴因为历史原因和客户关系，以及需要保持连续性，所以每两周甚至每月更新一次，而Accio Work几乎每天都在更新，或者每天发布一个新版本。

So it sounds like Accio Work is almost like its own innovation hub or lab or business within alibaba.com, where it sounds like alibaba.com because rightly so of the legacy and the history with customers and the need for continuity is shipping updates at biweekly or even monthly rate, whereas Accio Work is literally updating almost every day or a version every day.

听起来它也在自我更新。

It sounds like it is also updating itself.

然后你提到了CLI，也就是命令行界面，接着它实际上开始学习，或者说你正在实现让它能够与阿里巴巴网站对话，对吧？

And then you had mentioned CLI or command line interface to then it's actually starting to learn or you're implementing having it work to talk back to alibaba.com, right?

开始在那里整合，这样你就可以把更多智能体功能融入主营业务。

To start integrating there so you can incorporate agentic features more into the main business.

我理解得对吗？

Do I have that right?

那真是太了不起了。

That that's incredible.

是的。

Yes.

而且现在，因为Accio已经作为AI模式整合进了阿里巴巴网站，阿里巴巴网站现在也在每天升级。

And today, since Accio is integrated in alibaba.com as AI mode, now alibaba.com is upgrading daily basis as well.

好的。

Okay.