本集简介
双语字幕
仅展示文本字幕，不包含中文音频；想边听边看，请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
嘿。
Hey.
我叫克里斯·布伦南，你正在收听占星播客。
My name is Chris Brennan, and you're listening to the astrology podcast.
今天，我将与占星师海伦娜·伍兹交谈，我们会讨论星舆图学，这是一种迁移占星术，能帮助你利用占星术找到最适合居住的地方。
Today, I'm gonna be talking with astrologer Helena Woods, and we're gonna be talking about astrocartography, which is a form of relocational astrology, which allows you to use astrology to find the best place to live.
所以，嗨，海伦。
So, hey, Helen.
海伦娜，感谢你加入我。
Helena, thanks for joining me.
是的。
Yeah.
能和你交谈，克里斯，我感到非常幸运。
So I'm such a magical opportunity to speak with you, Chris.
对。
Yeah.
我非常欣赏你的作品。
I really like your work.
这段时间里，你把自己的YouTube频道做得风生水起，一直专注于深耕星图区位学（astrocartography）与迁移占星学领域。
You've been really killing it with like a YouTube channel over the past while where you really focus on specializing on astrocartography and relocational astrology.
我真的很喜欢你做的内容，所以我觉得这是个绝佳的合作机会，能一起做一期和这个主题相关的节目。
And I really love your work, so I thought it would be a great opportunity to collaborate and put together an episode on this topic together.
对的。
Yeah.
哇，这太让人激动了。
Oh, this is so exciting.
我对这个领域充满热忱，这项工作的价值极高，是非常重要的工具，我很开心能和你的听众们分享这些内容。
I'm so passionate about this, and this work is so valuable and such an important tool, and I'm excited to share this with your community.
太棒了。
Cool.
好的。
Alright.
所以为了让大家快速了解我们在这段大约两小时的对话中要讨论的重点，我刚才的描述准确吗？
So to give people the highlights of what we're gonna be talking about in this, let's say, two hour episode really quickly, did I describe it correctly?
我们讨论的是星象地理学，这是一种迁移占星术的形式。
We're talking about astrocartography, which is a form of relocational astrology.
基本理念是，地球上不同的地方会以不同方式强化你的出生星盘。
And the basic premise is that, there's different places on Earth that are gonna accent your chart, your birth chart in different ways.
是的。
Yeah.
吉姆·刘易斯创造了这套星图系统，其核心理念是我们同时存在于世界地图上的每一个地方。
Jim Lewis created this maps system, and basically, it's this idea of we're existing everywhere all at once on the in the a map in the world.
通过搬迁，你能连接并激活你出生星盘中某个层面的意识。
And by moving, you connect and bring to light an aspect of consciousness that's in your birth chart.
因此，通过旅行、搬迁或前往不同地点，我们实际上是在以新的方式与自身本质建立联系。
And so by traveling or moving or going to the different places, we're really connecting with the same essence of us, but in a new way.
我们正在以一种全新的方式探索它。
We're exploring it in a new way.
太棒了。
That's brilliant.
我喜欢这个说法。
I love that.
所以有一种观点认为，我们星盘中有一些部分在出生星盘本身中并不那么突出，但根据你在世界不同地方的迁居，你实际上可以改变你的星盘，将出生地变为世界上任何一个新城市，从而转动整个星盘和宫位，让不同的行星落在星盘的四角上——即上升点、中天、下降点和天底。
So there's this idea that there's some parts of our chart that aren't as prominent in our birth chart itself, But depending on where you move at different parts in the world, you can actually, change your chart and change the birth location to whatever that new city is in the world, and it will turn the chart and turn the houses and put different planets on the angles of the chart, which is the Ascendant and Midheaven and Descendant and the IC.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这完全基于四角。
It's and it's all based on angles.
他所创建的整个星图都是基于这样的概念：在出生时刻太阳升起时，哪些行星位于哪个角度，而在世界其他地方太阳落下时，情况又是怎样的。
The entire map that he created was based on, you know, which planets were on which angle, when the sun was rising, where was that happening in the world at birth versus where was the sun setting at a different part in the world.
因此，除了我们通常看的本地化星盘之外，它还通过一张视觉地图展示出不同地区哪些行星处于四角位置。
And so instead of looking at charts, which we look at we located charts as well, but it's based on a visual map showing where the planets were angular in the different parts of the world.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
Awesome.
为了给大家一个直观的预览，这里展示的是来自astro.com的星盘，你可以免费访问他们的星盘旅行板块，它会显示贯穿不同城市或世界各地区的行星线。
So just to give people, like, a visual preview, so here's just the chart from astro dot com, which you can find for free by going to their astro click travel section, and it will just show you these planet lines that run through different cities or different parts of the world.
这非常酷，因为你可以用它来研究你的星盘在世界不同地区如何变化和转移，或者它如何以不同方式强调星盘的不同部分。
And it's really cool because you can use it to study how your chart changes and shifts in different parts of the world or how it emphasizes different parts of the chart in different ways.
是的。
Yeah.
这是一个非常了不起的工具，它真的能改变人生，帮助你探索生活的不同方面，与不同的人和世界不同地区建立联系，或获得不同的职业机会。
It's such an amazing tool, and it it really can shift, you know, lives and different exploring different aspects of the life and, you know, connecting with different people and parts of world or having opportunities with different, you know, career.
只要去不同的地方旅行，就能激活很多可能性。
There's so many things you can activate just by traveling to places.
很棒。
Cool.
好的。
Alright.
那么，让我来向我的听众介绍一下你吧，因为这是你第一次上这个播客，谈谈你的背景吧，因为你对这个话题如此热情，以至于你真的环游世界，去不同的astrocartography线路上，体验不同地方对你的影响。
Well, so let me let's maybe introduce you to my audience since this is your first time on the podcast and talk a little bit about your background because you're so passionate about this topic that you've actually been, like, traveling around the world to different astrocartography lines to see how different lines work for you in different places.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
太神奇了。
It's amazing.
五年前我搬到了法国，我一直很喜欢占星学，但正是在我从美国搬到法国后，我才了解到astrocartography。
So I moved to France five years ago, and this was I've always loved astrology, but it was in France when I moved from The US to France that I learned about astrocartography.
我亲身经历了这种体验有多么不同，以及如何在你生活中激活某些主题，而这些主题如果你一直待在原地可能永远不会出现。
I saw and experienced in my own life how the experience can be so different and how you activate certain themes in your life that you maybe wouldn't have if you had, you know, stayed in the same place.
于是我开始探索并频繁旅行，现在我的目标是在未来几年里探索我所有的星线，并结合行运和推进来安排时间，看看即将到来的是什么，无论是外在还是内在的都会被揭示出来。
And so I started exploring this and traveling a lot, and now I'm on a mission to explore all of my lines and timing it with transits and progressions for the next few years to see, you know, what is coming, you know, what is bringing to light the external but also the internal.
是的，我现在正在亲身体验这一切。
And, yes, I'm living this now.
我目前正身处爱沙尼亚的塔林，正好位于我的木星下降线上，同时我也处在一条非常棒的纬度上，因此我在这里很好地利用了这种能量。
I'm currently currently in in Tallinn, Tallinn, Estonia at the moment, exactly on my Jupiter descendant line, and I'm on a cool riding latitude at the moment, so I've been really utilizing the energy well here.
我在法国也生活在一个很棒的星线之上。
And I live on a great line in France.
我在法国找到的家，正位于一条非常美好的家园星线上。
I found my home in France on a beautiful home line.
所以我非常期待我的旅行将带我去往何方，以及这些地方会揭示出什么。
And So I'm excited to see where, you know, my travels take me and what comes to light with all of these places.
太棒了。
Brilliant.
听起来真是太有趣了。
That sounds like so much fun.
而且确实如此。
And and yeah.
从我学习的早期阶段开始，我也研究了几年占星术，然后我开始四处迁徙，先是去上学，后来参与了一个翻译项目。
From a very early stage in my studies, I I studied astrology for a few years as well, then I started moving around first to go to school and then to study at a translation project.
我最终在自己的星盘中从一条主要星线迁移到另一条主要星线，而当我开始演讲和相关活动后，我开始前往世界不同的地方旅行。
I ended up jumping from major line to major line in my chart as well as eventually once I started lecturing and stuff, I started traveling different parts of the world.
我总是发现，我的星舆图星线非常准确地描述了我在这些地方会经历的体验，以及我遇到的人的类型——有时是重大关系、商业往来或其他类似事情的互动。
I always found my astrocartography lines to be very descriptive of the types of experiences I would have in those locations, but also the types of people that I would meet sometimes or at least interactions that I would have with major relationships or business things and other things like that.
因此，这对我来说一直是一种非常引人入胜的技术。
So it's always been a really compelling technique to me.
我认为，大多数人也会有类似体验，发现它实际上出人意料地有效。
I think that's most people's experience that this actually works surprisingly well.
起初你或许不会觉得它会如此有效，但一旦你亲自在自己的星盘中尝试，看到那些主要星线时，就会发现它有多么令人震撼。
Not that you wouldn't think that it would at first, but it's actually striking once you try it out in your own chart and see some of those major lines, like how compelling it is.
是的。
Oh, yeah.
我的意思是，你可以看到，对于那些找到配偶、最好的朋友或客户的人来说，情况确实如此。
I mean, you can see that for people who find their spouse or their best friends or their clients.
很多客户，尤其是那些做生意的人，都会来自某个下降线或某个特定地区。
A lot of their clients, people who have businesses, they'll come from a certain descendant line or a certain area.
因此，建立人际关系是非常重要的。
And so relationships are a big thing, connecting with people.
同时，探索自我也是其中之一。
Also exploring the sense of self yeah.
你可以用这种方式做很多事情。
There's so many ways that you can use this.
当然。
For sure.
当然。
For sure.
好的。
Alright.
那么，我们先从最开始谈起吧，你已经提到过关于它的历史和一些基本原理。
Well, let's talk a little bit first at the very beginning, which you already touched on about the history and some of the basic premise.
所以看起来，在某个时候，我重新阅读了这方面的主教材，其实这种技术的创始人是上世纪七十年代的一位名叫吉姆·刘易斯的占星师。
So it seems like at some point, like I was rereading one of the primary textbooks for this, really the the main astrologer who originated the technique in the nineteen seventies was an astrologer named Jim Lewis.
他写了一本名为《占星地理心理学》的书，这本书似乎是这个主题最重要的著作之一。
And he wrote a book titled The Psychology of Astrocartography, and it seems like that's really one of the main books on this topic.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
它就像一本食谱，告诉你当你的位置移动到某些特定的线或角度时，比如迁移到某个宫位，这意味着什么。
It's the kind of like a cookbook style of what does it mean when you go to certain lines on certain angles, whether it relocates to a certain house.
这是一本了不起的书，是任何想深入研究这个领域的人的必备参考。
It's an amazing book that has it's it's kind of like a go to book for anyone who wants to dive into this.
它就像一本手册，告诉你每种情况的含义。
It's like this it's like a manual to tell you what each thing means.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
Brilliant.
根据我读的这本书，他似乎是在二十世纪七十年代最初发展出这种技术的，当时他完全是手工在星盘上绘制这些线条。
And it seems like he from what I was reading the book, he developed the technique originally in the nineteen seventies, and he was actually drawing out these lines by hand, like, on charts, back then manually.
当时人们可以寄信申请获取自己的星位地图，这种技术逐渐流行起来，直到二十世纪末，也就是九十年代和二月左右。
And it was something that people could, like, write in for to get their astrocartography chart, and it slowly sort of took off as a technique until the late twentieth century, like the nineteen nineties and and February.
我知道后来它被整合进了astro.com，每个人都可以免费使用，从那时起，大家都对它非常熟悉了。
I know it was integrated into astro.com where everybody could use it for free, and it seemed like everyone became very familiar with it from that point forward.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
有趣的是，吉姆·刘易斯虽然在七十年代创造了这些地图，但他其实深受二十世纪五十年代唐纳德·布拉德利的启发。
And and it's interesting because Jim Lewis, he created the maps in the seventies, but he was really inspired by Donald Bradley in the nineteen fifties.
唐纳德·布拉德利当时在制作政治和世俗占星图。
Donald Bradley was making charts on political and mundane astrology.
所以吉姆·刘易斯遇见了他，并且深受启发。
And so he you know, Jim Lewis met him and, you know, was really inspired.
然后，他在自己的生活中经历了去火星线时，某些主题不断出现，于是他觉得这背后一定有道理。
And then, you know, he experiences in his own life of having you know, going to a Mars line and having certain themes keep coming up for him, and he was like, there's something to this.
所以在七十年代，他创建了这些星图。
And so in the seventies, he, you know, created the maps.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
Brilliant.
是的。
Yeah.
关于这段历史，我有点好奇，因为在肯·欧文为吉姆·刘易斯的书所写的序言中提到，可能有一些更早的线索，而吉姆·刘易斯当时未必完全了解，比如布拉德利的相关研究。
And that's something I was curious about a little bit of the history where it seemed like in the foreword to the book that Ken Irving wrote for Jim Lewis' book, they said that there were some earlier, like, traces of this that Jim Lewis may not have been, like, fully aware of, like Bradley's work on it.
虽然当时并不明确，但确实是吉姆·刘易斯率先开创并推广了这一技术，他不仅让这种技术广为人知，还创新性地将其应用于本命图，让人们能够研究自己在全球各地的个人星线。
It wasn't necessarily clear, but that really, Jim Lewis was the one who pioneered it and sort of made it a popularized technique, or he popularized the technique for sure, as well as innovated with some of the application of it to natal charts and to using it in that way so that people could study their personal lines all over the world.
是的。
Yeah.
太棒了。
It's brilliant.
太棒了。
Brilliant.
酷。
Cool.
好的。
Alright.
吉姆·刘易斯不幸于1995年早逝，但听起来那本书确实出版了。
And Jim Lewis, unfortunately, sadly passed away like prematurely in the '19 And it sounds like that book was actually published.
他于1995年去世，但那本书后来由他的朋友肯尼斯·欧文出版，同时还有当时正在为Penguin Arcana出版社编辑一系列书籍的亚伦·沙利文参与，那家出版社当时是出版重要占星著作的大型出版社。
He died in 1995, but that book was then published by Kenneth Irving, by his friend Kenneth Irving, as well as Aaron Sullivan who was editing a series of books for Penguin Arcana at the time, which is like a big publisher when they're still publishing really major astrology works.
他们于1997年出版了这本书，也就是他去世后仅仅几年。
And they published that book in 1997, so just a couple of years after he passed away.
哇。
Wow.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
哇。
Wow.
是的。
Yeah.
这非常重要且值得注意，这本书至今仍在印刷，大家应该去看看。
So that's really important and notable and that book's still in print, people should check that out.
除此之外，关于这个概念的基本前提，我认为第一个出发点就是：你可以迁移出生图，了解迁移出生图是什么样子，以及这意味着什么。
And then other than that, in terms of the conceptual premise of this, I think the first starting point is just the idea that you can relocate a birth chart and what relocating a birth chart you know, looks like and what that means.
基本上，每个人都有自己的本命盘，包含三个关键数据：出生日期、出生时间和出生地点，这些共同构成了占星师两千多年来一直使用的静态本命盘。
It's basically so everybody has their normal birth chart where you have those three pieces of data where you have the date, you have the time, and you have the place you were born, and that creates the sort of static birth chart that astrologers have been using for over two thousand years now.
但占星师们在某个时候发现——虽然我不太清楚具体何时——但至少在过去一个世纪里，人们意识到：如果你把地点换成你当前所在的位置，这个 relocated 的星盘，也就是迁居后的本命盘，实际上能反映你在该地的生活体验。
But what astrologers learned at some point, I'm not exactly clear, but certainly over the past century, was that if you change the location to whatever your current location is, that there's something about that relocated chart, that relocated birth chart that actually does speak to your experience of that location.
是的。
Yeah.
这很有趣，因为它的核心理念是：你的星盘就是你本身。
And it's interesting because it's the idea that you are your chart is what it is.
但当你迁移到一个新的地方时，它在这里就是它本来的样子。
But when you relocate to a new place, it's what it is here.
所以在当前这个地点，会发生一些变化。
So in this location, there's a shift.
举个例子，你的火星，你的本命火星始终是你的本命火星，但当你把星盘迁移到新地点时，它会进入生活中不同的领域。
So, for example, your Mars, your natal Mars will always be your natal Mars, but it's exploring in a different area of life when you relocate the chart to a new area.
所以它会在宫位上发生移动，同时角度也会随之变化。
So it moves in house wise and then the angles move as well.
所以，是的，这就是迁居图，你只需移动一下就能看到变化。
And so, yeah, that's the relocated chart, which you can see the changes just by moving.
好的。
Okay.
那我们来看看它是什么样子。
Well, let's show what that looks like.
我用我的星盘做例子，你也愿意分享你的星盘吧。
I'll I'll use my chart, and then you're you're comfortable sharing your chart as well.
对吧？
Right?
当然可以。
Oh, totally.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
Cool.
所以为了让人们直观地了解这是什么样子。
So just to give people an example of what this looks like.
这是我的基本出生星盘。
So here is my basic birth chart.
这个星盘使用的是整宫制，但我们仍然会关注角度的度数，即使它处于整宫制的框架内。
This is cast using whole sign houses, but we're gonna pay attention to the degrees of the angles still even though it's within a whole sign context.
我的上升点位于水瓶座17度，中天位于射手座5度。
So my Ascendant is at 17 degrees of Aquarius and my Midheaven is at five degrees of Sagittarius.
这意味着在我的出生地点，根据度数，某些行星在我的星盘中非常接近角度。
And that naturally means like in my birth location, there's certain planets that are really angular in my chart according to the degrees.
月亮几乎正好位于上升点，天王星几乎正好位于中天。
The moon is almost right on the ascendant natally and Uranus is almost right on the midheaven.
它距离中天只有五到六度之差，这些行星在某种意义上是我星盘中最活跃的，从动态角度来看，是因为它们靠近角度的度数。
It's just like five or six degrees off of the midheaven and those are the most sort of active planets in my chart in some sense, in a dynamic sense based on the proximity to the degrees of the angles.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
你可以在你的星图上看到这一点。
And you'll see that on your map.
所以当你在astro.com上打开你的星盘地图时，你会看到天王星与中天的线。
So when you pull up your astro map, like on astro.com, you'll see that Uranus MC line.
你也会看到月亮与上升点的线，因为这些行星正好位于角度上。
You'll see that moon ascendant, the moon rising line there on the map as well because those planets are on angles.
所以这是对你星图上正在发生的事情的一种非常酷的视觉呈现。
So it's it's a really cool visual representation of what's happening on your map.
这就是你所说的。
So here's what you're talking about.
所以对于观看视频版的观众来说，虽然听众也可以收听音频，但这一集可能会有较多视觉内容。
So this is for those watching the video version, and people can listen to the audio, but this is probably gonna be a visually intensive episode.
所以我们尽量描述我们正在看的内容，但大部分情况下，这可能是那种观众想在YouTube上观看的视频。
So we'll do our best to describe what we're looking at, but for the most part, this is probably one of those ones people wanna watch on YouTube.
但是的。
But Yeah.
这是星位地图，显示了我的出生地丹佛，我认为那个红点就是。
So here is the astrocartography map, and it shows my birth location there in Denver, I think is the the red mark, basically.
然后，是的，你看到的是上升月亮线，这是上升点与月亮完全重合的位置，也就是地球上月亮恰好升到上升点度数的城市或地区，这就是它所代表的意思吗？
And then, yeah, you see the ascendant moon line, which is where the ascendant exactly would meet the moon, where where basically the city or the locations in The United States or in the world where the moon would come to the exact degree of the ascendant, and that's what that's representing?
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Yep.
月亮正好在那个点升起。
Moon was rising exactly at that point.
明白了。
Got it.
好的。
Okay.
这是因为在我实际的出生星盘中，它偏离了四到五度才达到精确位置。
And that's because it was like four or five degrees off from being exact in my actual birth chart itself.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这完全是基于度数的。
And so this is based on degrees.
吉姆·刘易斯使用的是八度或七度的容许度，因此我们讨论的是大约700英里的距离。
So, you know, Jim Lewis used eight degree orbs, seven degree orbs, so we're looking at 700 miles of a distance.
所以，你离某个角度上的行星度数越近，那条线就越靠近，你离它越近，那种能量就越活跃、越强烈。
So the closer you are to a degree on an angle with a planet, the closer that line would be, and the more active and potent that energy would be the closer you are to it.
好的。
Okay.
所以存在一种接近效应，当你越靠近精确的线时，效果就越强烈？
So there's a, like, a proximity effect and it gets more intense the closer you get to the exact line?
哦，对的。
Oh, yeah.
这也是我发现的一个很关键的点。
And that's a big thing I see.
很多人都会误以为，我所在的地方没有穿过任何线，就代表这里不存在相关的能量影响。
You know, a lot of people think, I don't have a line here, so that means there's no energy here.
他们会觉得既然没有线刚好穿过这片区域，那这个地方对我来说就不是世界上的重要位置。
There's this is an an important place for me in the world because there's not a line going exactly through this area.
但实际上，你只需要去测量它就好。
But in actuality, you just have to measure it.
哪怕你和那些线隔着数百英里，它们依然会对你产生影响。
You still have those lines influencing you within hundreds of miles.
不过你离得越近，影响的强度就越高。
But the closer you are, the more intense it is.
这就像是把某颗行星的能量强度直接拉满；而且哪怕你没有正好处在那条线上，你依然在它的作用范围内。
And it's it's like turning up the power all the way up on a planet, But you're still within orb even if you don't have that line directly.
即使在一百英里或两百英里范围内，你仍然处于影响范围内。
Even within a 100 miles, 200 miles, you're still within orb.
明白了。
Got it.
好的。
Okay.
所以回到这张地图上，我们还能看到我的天王星中天线，因为之前我们发现天王星在我的出生图中非常接近我的中天。
So going back to this map, and then we also see my Uranus midheaven line because we saw that Uranus was very close to my Midheaven in my birth chart.
大概差了五到六度。
It was like five or six degrees off.
但确实如此。
But Yeah.
如果你从丹佛向东移动，基本上就会到达天王星中天的精确线。
If you were to move East Of Denver, basically, that's where you would hit the exact Uranus Midheaven line.
这条线大致穿过堪萨斯州，也就是紧邻科罗拉多州的那个州。
It runs through basically like Kansas, which is the state like just adjacent to Colorado.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
不错。
Cool.
好的。
Alright.
这就是天王星中天线。
So there's the Uranus MC.
还有一件事我想展示一下：当然，还有其他一些线，当你离出生地越来越远时，这些线会把那些在出生图中并不靠近角度的行星带到角度的精确度数上。
And then one last thing I want to show also is so there's other lines of course, which when you start getting further away from your birth location, which start bringing planets that were not natally very close to angles in the birth chart, it brings them right to the degrees of the angles.
而图表中其余的线基本上就是表示这些情况。
And that's what the rest of the lines are basically indicated in the chart.
例如，我刚离家时搬去的一个地方就是西雅图，我去那里上学，去开普勒学院学习占星术。
So for example, here's the One of my lines that I moved to when I first left home was I moved to Seattle to go to school, to go to Kepler College basically to study astrology.
我的土星中天线正好穿过西雅图。
And my Saturn Midheaven line runs right through Seattle.
哇。
Wow.
这太惊人了。
That's wow.
是的。
Yeah.
当你在学校时，感觉怎么样？
And how did you feel when you were there at school?
是不是很用功，我猜，因为有土星的影响？
Was it very, you know, studious, I'm guessing, with Saturn?
对。
Yeah.
有趣的是，那一年在西雅图这个多雨的城市里，我其实感到非常孤独，因为那是在冬天。
Well, ironically, what's funny about that was it was actually very isolating, sort of lonely year in this rainy city because it was during the winter in Seattle.
所以天气非常阴沉。
So it's very overcast.
由于是在线学校，我在那里几乎没有社交联系。
I didn't have a lot of social connections out there because it was an online school.
我去那里是为了能使用图书馆。
And I went there to be have access to the library.
因此，那是一个典型的土星年——我第一次远离家人和儿时的朋友，独自搬到一座陌生的城市。
So it was a very Saturn type year in terms of being isolated from my family or friends I grew up with for the first time, moving to a different city for the first time.
我当时也很穷，勉强维持生计，有时候不得不在当晚吃晚饭和买杂货之间做选择；有一次，当地一家占星书店有一本非常好的伊本·埃兹拉的书，标价20美元，我最终选择了买书而不是吃饭。
And I was also very broke and scraping by, and sometimes I would have to choose between getting dinner that night or buying groceries versus there was this really good Ibn Ezra book that I wanted to buy one time that was $20 at the local astrology bookstore, and I got the book instead of the food.
所以那确实是一段负面的土星经历。
So that was there was, like, a negative Saturn experience.
但有趣的是，正是在那段时间，我在开普勒学院的第二年，参加了2002年2月的课程，当时德梅特拉·乔治和丹尼斯·哈内斯同时教授希腊占星术和吠陀占星术入门。
But then interestingly, that was when I also famously at Kepler College in the second year, I took 02/2002 where Demetra George and Dennis Harness were teaching an introduction to Hellenistic and Vedic astrology at the same time.
我曾公开抗议，因为我本不想选这门课——我上那里是为了学习现代占星术，研究星图定位和外行星之类的主题。
I famously protested because I didn't want to take- I went there to study modern astrology and study astrocartography and outer planets and other stuff like that.
我不想学习古代占星，因为我觉得它过时了，没什么用。
And I didn't wanna study ancient astrology because I thought it was outdated and not useful.
但他们 basically 说：没办法，你得学。
But then they basically said, know, tough.
就是，你逃不掉的。
Like, you can't get out of it.
去上这门课吧。
Take the course.
于是我去了，结果反而爱上了它，从此对古代占星产生了极大的兴趣。
So I did and I ended up loving it and then famously became super fascinated with ancient astrology at that point.
这成了我的专长，而我也正好在我的土星中天线上找到了它。
And that became my thing, which I found on my Saturn MC line.
哦。
Oh.
所以，你知道，这还挺不错的。
So, you know, that's pretty that's pretty good.
这很不错。
It's pretty good.
土星非常持久。
And Saturn's so enduring.
当我看到那些生活在土星中天线上的客户时，他们所做的工作往往具有极长的寿命。
It's like when I see clients who, you know, live on a Saturn MC, it's like the work they do there can have such longevity.
你知道的。
You know?
这是一种非常持久的工作。
It's so enduring work.
它经得起时间的考验。
It stands the test of time.
他们二十年后依然在做这件事。
It's something that they, you know, they do twenty years from now.
或者如果他们在土星宫位上进行投资或创业，那就是他们当初启动的那件事。
Or if they make investments or start a business on a Saturn embassy, it's like that thing that they started.
三十年后他们仍然会做这件事，而投入时间和精力去坚持某件事所带来的回报依然存在。
They'll still be doing it thirty years from now, and there's still the rewards that come from the time element of putting in the time and the dedication to something.
这太酷了。
That is so cool.
土星和海王星的线对有些人来说可以非常成功，但同时也伴随着孤独和艰辛的努力。
Saturn and sea lines can be very successful for people, but there is that isolation, the hard work.
你知道，土星也带来很多冷峻的特质。
You know, there's a lot of that coldness of Saturn too.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
For sure.
关于迁居图，我们在这里做的是使用我相同的出生日期和时间，但把地点设为西雅图。
So in terms of the relocated chart, so what we're doing there is we're basically using my same, like, date and time, but we're just setting the location for Seattle.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
所以你在更改地点。
And so you're changing the location.
你可以在像Astro Gold这样的软件中做到这一点，任何软件都可以，甚至包括astro.com。
And and you can do that, you know, in software like astro gold, any software, even astro.com.
当你调整地点时，时间也会随之改变。
And when you adjust the location, the time will shift too.
所以西雅图，你知道，时区会变化。
So Seattle, you know, the that time zone will shift.
所以时间会变，地点也会变。
So the time will shift and the location will shift.
当你这样做时，角度会发生很多变化，房屋宫位也可能随之变动。
And when you do that, there should be, you know, a lot of changes with the the the angles, and then the the houses can shift as well.
所以你知道这个设置在哪里吗？
So do you know where that setting is?
所以要生成一个迁居图，有没有特定的设置，还是只是为那个地点重新计算一次星盘？
So to do a relocated chart, is there like a specific setting or do you just like recast the chart for that location?
在astro.com上，你可以向下找到星盘类型，然后在下拉菜单里有一个迁居星盘的选项按钮。
There in astro.com, you can go down to like chart type and then there's a relocated chart feature, a relocated chart button that in the drop down menu.
在Astro Gold中也有迁居选项。
In astro gold, there is a relocation option as well.
但所有软件都会提供一个迁居副图功能，你可以使用它。
But all all softwares will have, like, a relocation subsidiary chart that you can use it.
它会自动调整所有时间和相关设置。
And it'll automatically adjust all the time and everything.
所以我直接去做了。
So I just went ahead and did that.
这是使用整宫制的本命盘，再次展示给大家。
So there's the natal chart again using whole sign houses just to show people.
而这是西雅图的迁居星盘。
And then here is the relocated chart for Seattle.
我们可以看到，所有东西都发生了偏移，突然间，我星盘中位于天蝎座17度的土星，变成了那个星盘的中天，变得重要得多。
We can just see that it shifts everything over and all of a sudden, this Saturn placement in my chart, is at 17 Scorpio is suddenly on the Midheaven in that chart, just so much more prominent.
这非常重要，因为在本命盘中，土星是我上升星座的守护星，位于第十整宫，也就是事业、声誉和人生整体方向的领域。
And that's so important because in the natal chart itself, Saturn is the ruler of my ascendant, and it's in the tenth whole sign house, the place of career and reputation and overall life direction.
所以这几乎就像是找到了一个能激活我星盘中这个位置的地方，那里原本就蕴藏着潜力。
So it was almost as if it was finding that place that would unlock that placement in my chart where the potential was there.
但似乎通过前往那个地方，我才真正发现了本命盘中这个位置所蕴含的潜力。
But it's almost like by going to that place, that was where I would discover the potential of that placement in my birth chart.
没错。
Exactly.
太神奇了。
It's amazing.
这是在释放潜力，释放意识的层面，或是解锁自我的一部分。
It's unlocking potential, unlocking aspects of consciousness, aspecting or unlocking parts of self.
本命的承诺。
The the natal promise.
太神奇了。
It's amazing.
太酷了。
It's so cool.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
本命的承诺。
The natal promise.
我喜欢这个说法。
I love that phrase.
这个说法是我以前在二月的时候，大概是跟一些印度占星师学到的，但真的是个非常好的表达。
That was like a phrase I picked up, I think originally from like Indian astrologers in the February, but it's such a good phrase.
就像这个概念：出生星盘预示着某些事情，但有一些特定的时间技术或其他技术，比如这种定位占星术，能告诉你出生星盘中所承诺的那些事，究竟会在什么时候真正实现。
Like the idea that the birth chart promises certain things, but there's certain timing techniques or other techniques like potentially this one, like locational astrology, that will tell you when that natal promise that was made in the birth chart will actually be delivered.
是的。
Yeah.
吉姆·刘易斯有一句非常棒的名言，网上YouTube上能找到相关片段。
And there's a great quote that Jim Lewis there's a clip of it on YouTube somewhere.
那段视频只有大约一分钟，但他提到，你知道，占星在某种程度上是宿命论的，因为很多事情都与时机有关，比如人生大事的发生时间。
It's only like a minute long, but he says something like, you know, astrology, it's fairly fatalistic in a way in the sense that, you know, there's a lot of things that have to do with timing and, like, life things being timed.
但关于星舆学和地点占星术的是，你可以选择搬到一个新的地方。
But the thing about astrocartography and locational astrology is that you can choose to be in a new location.
你可以选择感受不同的状态，而这些星线之所以重要，正是因为它们深刻影响着我们的生活质量与情绪感受。
You can choose to feel a different way, and that's a big thing about these lines is they really affect our quality of life and how we feel.
所以，无论你正经历困难的星象过渡或人生低谷，当某个时机到来时，你可以选择身处一个更具韧性、更容易度过难关的地方，而不是像在土星线区域那样，恰逢你的土星回归期。
So regardless of if you have a hard transit or you're going through a hard time in life, when something is timed, you can put yourself in a place where there's more resilience or there's an ability to get through it with ease rather than being in a harder place like a Saturn line when you have your Saturn return, for instance.
我的意思是，你知道，存在一些方式可以真正地改善你的生活，这正是吉姆·刘易斯所热衷的精彩之处。
I mean, there's, you know, ways that you can, you know, affect you know, really help your life in some way, which that's the cool thing that Jim Lewis, he he was really passionate about that.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得，作为占星师，我们习惯了处理时间，而时间就像是我们主要的货币。
I like you know, as astrologers, we're so used to dealing with time, and time is, like, our major currency.
这是我们用来工作的主要工具。
It's our major tool that we have to work with.
但有趣的是，这引入了一个我们通常无法接触的全新维度，那就是空间和地点。
But what's interesting about this is it's bringing a completely different component that we don't often get to work with, which is space and, like, location.
而这一点很特别，因为时间很棘手，时间并不那么灵活。
And that is something you know, with time, time is tricky because time is not as malleable.
你知道，时间的某些部分，比如过去和现在，你往往无法控制或改变太多。
You know, there's some parts of time like the past and the present that you can't always, like, control or or do a lot about.
你甚至无法改变一些关于未来的事情，比如你知道二十年后某一天会发生某个相位，这个相位无论如何都会发生，因为行星的运行轨迹是固定的，至少从天文学角度来看，它们无法被改变。
You can't change, even some things about the future, at least in terms of, like, you know that a certain transit is gonna be happening on this day twenty years from now, and, like, the that's gonna happen, like, one way or another, that transit because it's like the planets are on that course and they can't really be moved at least from an astronomical standpoint.
但空间就很有意思，因为我们在某种程度上能更主动地掌控自己在特定时间所处的位置，这可能会改变，或者至少以不同方式强化出生星盘的影响？
But space is really interesting because that is something that we have a little bit more control over in terms of where we are at certain points of time and how that might change or if not change, at least accentuate the birth chart differently?
没错。
Exactly.
是的
Yeah.
好的
Okay.
我喜欢而且
I love And
这是一个关于增强作用的有趣观点。
that's actually an interesting point about accentuation.
占星地理学的一个特点似乎是它以不同方式增强星盘的不同部分，但似乎并不会完全取代或改变基本的出生星盘本身。
That was one of the things that seems like astrocartography does is it seems like it accentuates different parts of the chart in different ways, but it seems like it doesn't really override or completely change the basic birth chart itself.
对吧？
Right?
是的
Yeah.
出生星盘始终是固定的，但我们可以将出生星盘中的其他元素凸显出来。
The birth chart is always fixed, but we can bring in other elements within the birth chart to prominence.
所以，我们命盘中的其他部分会变得更加直接。
So other pieces of our needle promise come to they're more direct.
它们更加鲜明、扑面而来。
They're more kind of in your face.
它们会以某种方式显现出来。
They come up to light in a way.
而且，在选择哪个行星原型、哪个命盘主题来更多地展现时，我们拥有自由选择的空间。
And there's that that freedom of choice in choosing which planetary archetype, which theme in the birth chart do we wanna bring more out of bring more out.
好的。
Okay.
这说得通。
That makes sense.
了解这一点对于设定预期很有帮助。
Well, that's good to know just in terms of setting expectations.
好吧。
Alright.
所以，我的其他几条线的经历也有些情况，但我不确定是该把这些都讲完，作为我故事的结尾，还是该谈谈其他例子，或者聊聊你到目前为止的经历。
So, I mean, I have a couple other parts of how my other lines have worked out, but I don't know whether to go into that to wrap that up in terms of my story or whether to talk about, like, other examples or talk about your experiences so far.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
我很乐意分享我的故事，因为它非常具体且直白。
I'd love to share my story because it's so specific and literal.
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
对。
Yeah.
我出生时，月亮天顶线正好在我身上。
So I was born on a Leo Moon MC line.
所以正好在月亮天顶线上。
So right on a Moon MC line.
而且
And
那你出生时间是什么？
What's your birth, though?
哦，你的出生信息？
Oh, my birth information?
是的。
Oh, yeah.
只是为了记录一下。
Just for the record.
是的。
Oh, yeah.
1994年5月17日下午6点32分，加利福尼亚州波威。
05/17/1994, 06:32PM Poway, California.
好的。
Okay.
所以你是上升十三度天蝎座？
So you have 13 Scorpio rising?
是的。
Yeah.
嗯。
Mhmm.
酷。
Cool.
好的。
Alright.
所以你是上升十三度天蝎座，你的木星在七度天蝎座，靠近上升点。
So 13 Scorpio rising, your Jupiter's at, like, seven Scorpio near the ascendant.
为了音频听众清楚，太阳在二十六度金牛座，月亮在二十一度狮子座。
Just for the audio listeners, the sun is at 26 Taurus, and the moon is at 21 Leo.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我出生的时候，正好在月亮中天线穿过我出生地——圣地亚哥地区的地方。
And so I was born smack dab on that moon MC line right through my town where I was born in the San Diego area.
因此，这个狮子座月亮，你知道，我从小就是个演员。
And so that Leo Moon, you know, I I grew up an actress.
我从小就是个表演者，有着一种深深的、情感上的需求，渴望站在舞台上，成为演员，被看见。
I grew up an entertainer an entertainer that I had this deep desire, this emotional, like, need to be on stage, to be an actress, to be seen.
你可以看到，狮子座月亮位于中天位置。
And you could see, you know, Leo Moon on the MC.
你知道，我们在连接月亮的故事——需求、欲望、情感滋养，你所需要接收的东西。
You know, we're connecting the moon story of needs, desires, emotional nourishment, what you need to receive.
而它位于中天，意味着高度的可见性，渴望公开亮相，再加上狮子座的特质赋予其色彩。
And it's on the MC, which is a high point of visibility, the desire to be public, and then the Leo element flavoring that.
然后是木星位于上升点，但主要的故事其实是月亮中天，因为它正好穿过我的家乡。
And then the Jupiter on the ascendant I mean, the main story is really that moon MC because it was going straight through my town.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
所以当我们看到一条线直接穿过某个地方时，那种能量会被放大，成为最主要的因素。
So when we're seeing a line going right through a place, that energy is magnified as kind of, like, the main thing.
但同时，我们还有木星上升点穿过，也就是木星和天蝎座落在上升点，这代表了我青少年时期对真理、知识和更深层事物的追求，一种精神上的探索。
But then we also have the Jupiter ascendant coming through, which is just, you know, Jupiter and Scorpio on the ascendant, you know, the desire to seek truth, to seek, you know, knowledge and something deeper, the spiritual quest that I was on as a teenager.
所以这是一个重要的主题。
So that was a big theme.
当我搬到纽约时，我搬到了纽约市。
When I moved to New York, I moved to New York City.
是的。
Oh, yeah.
这里有地图。
There's the map.
所以你看这里。
So here's your see.
星域地图上，月亮中天线正好穿过加利福尼亚州南部的某些区域。
Astrocartography map, and there's the the moon MC line, which runs right through part of the, like, Southern part of California.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这个月亮中天线很重要。
And so that moon MC was big.
我正在感受到木星上升的影响。
The Jupiter ascendant, I'm getting hints of that.
尽管木星上升线经过圣何塞，我在圣地亚哥依然能感受到它。
Even though the Jupiter ascendant the Jupiter rising line is going through San Jose, I'm still getting that in San Diego.
当我18岁的时候，我收拾行李搬到了纽约市，想尝试表演，体验整个纽约舞台生活。
But when I was 18, I packed my bags and I moved to New York City to try acting and to do the whole New York City stage thing.
我在那里住了五年，实际上在头一两年里，我就意识到我不再想当演员了。
I lived there for five years, and it was actually a year or two in that I realized I didn't wanna do acting anymore.
我在纽约期间生活中一个重要主题是恋爱、约会、社交生活和友谊。
And a big story of my life when I was in New York was relationships and dating and my social life and my friendships.
我在纽约遇到了我的丈夫，这很有趣，因为他的水星上升线正好穿过那个区域。
I end up meeting my husband there in New York City, and it's so interesting because he has his Mercury ascendant line going right through that area.
所以我的水星下降线也在那里，下降代表他人，你知道的，来自他人的东西，他人的投射和反映。
So my Mercury descendants there, descendant being others, you know, what comes from others, projections from others, reflections of others.
你知道，他人这个主题，下降线变得突出起来。
You know, there's a theme of other people, the descendant coming into focus.
而水星，他就是水星。
And Mercury and he is a Mercury.
他的星盘上水星在上升点，而且这条线正好穿过那里。
He's got Mercury on the ascendant in his chart, and it's going through there.
所以我的故事中很重要的一部分就是，在纽约遇到了我的丈夫，以及与人的连接。
So that was a big part of my story was New York was meeting my husband and connections with people.
我建立了一个客户关系业务，客户业务。
I built a client relationship business, client client business.
所以那也是我那段经历中很重要的一部分。
So that was a big part of my story there.
我还出了一本书
I also had a book published
这真的很有趣。
That's really interesting.
由那里的一家出版社出版。
By a publisher there.
所以你丈夫的上升点有水星？
So your husband has Mercury on the ascendant?
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
这一点非常有意思，因为我经常看到这种情况：当你搬到某条线上时，往往会遇到那些星盘中该行星特别突出的人。
That's really good striking point because that's something I see come up a lot as well, which is that sometimes when you move to a line, you'll meet people that actually have that planet prominent in their chart in some way.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
所以这是个常见的情况。
So that's a common thing.
是的。
Yeah.
我经常在客户星盘中看到，一个人的下降线会经过某个区域，而另一个人则会在上升点拥有相同的行星。
I see that all the time with client charts is one person will have that descendant line going through an area and then the other person will have the same planet but on the ascendant.
对。
Right.
太神奇了。
That's wild.
真的很魔幻。
That's really magical.
我认为，当开始看到这些现象发生时，这就是占星术中最奇妙的部分。
That's when it gets like really sort of trippy part of astrology, I think, that point when you start seeing that stuff happen.
然后你说你在那里也出了一本书？
And then you said you also got a book published there?
是的
Yeah.
在佛罗里达。
In Florida.
那个水星下降点正好穿过佛罗里达。
That Mercury descendant is going straight through Florida.
在迈阿密地区的时候，正好有一家出版社联系我，出版了我的一本书，叫《慢生活》，就在那里。
And at that point in the Miami area, I had just a publisher reach out and publish a book of mine called slow living, and it was, yeah, right there.
水星在下降点。
Mercury on the descendant.
你知道，我会把水星联系到写作、沟通、想法和思维，而下降点在移居后的星图中对应第七宫，代表出版社或合作。
You know, I think of Mercury writing, communication, ideas, thoughts, and on the descendant, which in the relocated to the seventh house in the relocated chart, which publishers or collaborations.
所以那里激活了一个非常重要的事情。
So that was a big thing that was activated there.
哇。
Wow.
太棒了。
That's amazing.
是的。
Yeah.
所以好吧。
So okay.
所以那是你的水星。
So that was your Mercury.
你先是去了西海岸，然后搬到了东海岸，水星的影响就在那里显现了。
So you did, like, one West Coast, then you moved to the East Coast, and you got some of the Mercury action going on.
让我们来算一下你的迁移星盘，这样大家就能直观地看到是什么样子。
Let me let's do your relocated charges so we can so people can visualize what that looks like.
我现在打开Solar Fire，进入地点设置，点击迁移星盘，然后把地点改成纽约。
So I'm just gonna go to Solar Fire, and I'm gonna go to locality, and then click relocated chart, and I'll just change it to New York.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的
Yeah.
Solar Fire 对于星盘地图和太阳星图功能非常棒。
Solar Fire is great for the astro maps the solar maps feature.
太酷了。
So cool.
对。
Yeah.
到目前为止，我用的是 astro.com，主要是为了给人们展示看起来是什么样子，因为这是每个人都会从免费资源开始使用的。
And I'm using, like, astro.com so far just to show people what that looks like since that's the free resource that everyone starts with.
但最终，一个很重要的点是你强烈推荐使用软件，尤其是 Solar Fire，它在方位占星方面功能非常强大。
But eventually, that's a big thing is that you really recommend using software and and and solar fires, like, got a pretty big component for locational astrology in it.
完全正确。
Totally.
特别是当我们关注时机的时候。
Especially when we're looking at timing.
那么，什么时候去一个地方最合适呢？
So when's the right time to go to a place?
明白了。
Got it.
好的。
Okay.
这是你的迁居星盘。
So here's your relocated chart.
是的。
Yeah.
所以你在纽约的上升星座变成了射手座14度。
So it changes your ascendant in New York to like 14 degrees of Sagittarius.
这和你原本的天蝎座上升截然不同。
So that's radically different than your Scorpio ascendant.
我们看到水星就在那里，位于双子座15度，正好在你的下降点上。
And we see Mercury right there at 15 degrees of Gemini, right on your descendant.
我的意思是，我知道确切的金星线位于大西洋深处，但我还是注意到，金星的位置也发生了变化，而且金星也开始靠近那个下降点。
I mean, I know the exact Venus line is a ways off into the Atlantic, but I can't help but notice also, like, how it moves Venus as well, and Venus starts getting in proximity to that descendant as well.
是的。
Yeah.
金星。
Venus.
哦，天哪。
Oh, and that oh my gosh.
金星与感情关系的故事是非常关键的。
Venus stories with relationships are such a key thing.
有太多精彩的例子了。
So many cool examples.
比如，当关系中的双方各自出生时，对方的金星线正好落在自己的星盘上。
Like, when people when each the other person in the relationship has that Venus line where that person was born.
比如约翰·列侬和小野洋子，他们各自出生时，对方的金星线正好落在自己的星盘上。
Like, John Lennon and Yoko Ono, they each were born with the other person's Venus line.
太酷了。
So cool.
看到金星位置与星迹地理学之间的关系，真是太棒了。
So cool to see Venus placements in relationship with astrocartography.
当然。
For sure.
好的。
Okay.
明白了。
Alright.
然后就拿到了出书的合约。
So and then got the book deal.
那你接下来做了什么？或者之后还有其他特别的星线吗？
So what what was your next thing, or do you have other lines after that that have been notable?
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，这本书的合约其实直到今年才达成，但我已经搬到了法国。
Well, the book deal happened a lot later just this year, but I moved to France.
所以是法国的斯特拉斯堡。
So Strasbourg, France.
我搬到了斯特拉斯堡，那里再次彻底改变了我的人生。
I moved to Strasbourg, and that was where life shifted again in a huge way.
我在法国的这个地区已经住了五年，所以迁居图在过去五年里一直没变。
And I've lived in this area for five years in France, and so the relocated chart's the same for the last five years.
也就是说，这张迁居图现在比我出生图更能代表我的生活，这真有点奇怪。
And so the I mean, this chart is is becoming more my life than my natal chart, which is bizarre.
连行运也都是针对迁居图发生的。
Like, the transits too have been on the relocated chart.
它以一种非常奇特的方式显现出来，但我还是看到了那颗金星。
It just manifested in such a weird way, but there's that Venus I see.
它正正好穿过法国的斯特拉斯堡。
It's going right through Strasbourg, France.
那是一个让我真正学会放慢生活节奏、融入法国文化与传统的地方。
And that was a place where I really learned to slow down my life and connect with the culture, the traditions of France, French culture.
我学到了很多关于享受生活中简单快乐、放慢脚步、在平凡中发现美的道理，这都与金星有关。
I learned a lot about, like, enjoying the simple joys of my life and slowing down and finding beauty in the ordinary and that Venusian.
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
我感到无比自在，这里就是我在世上的家。
I felt so at home, and it's it's my home in the world.
那颗金星将第四宫（土地与家庭）重新定位，但那里我还有土星落在上升点。
And that Venus relocates the fourth house of the land and the home, but I also have Saturn on the ascendant there.
这也意味着远离朋友和家人的孤独感。
And there is that isolation of being away from friends and family.
对我来说，这绝对不是一个社交密集的地方。
It's definitely not a social place for me in the world.
但土星实际上给我带来了好处。
But Saturn has actually been a benefit for me.
关于时间的观念，关于整理好自己的生活、建立日常规律和仪式，这些都得益于土星上升，让我在人生中变得更加成熟，而如果没有如此接近这条土星线，我可能不会经历这些。
The the thinking of time, the thinking of, you know, getting my life in order, routines, rituals, all of those things that Saturn ascendant has really helped me mature in my life that I don't think I otherwise would have experienced as being so close to that Saturn line.
是的。
Yeah.
这太棒了。
That's brilliant.
我注意到你的出生图中，土星位于双鱼座11度。
And I noticed in your birth chart itself that you have Saturn at 11 degrees of Pisces.
所以你现在正处于土星回归期，并且正生活在你的土星上升线上，或者非常接近它。
So you're actually in your Saturn return right now, and you're living, like, on your Saturn ascendant line or very close to it.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这真的很酷。
That's pretty cool.
是的。
Yeah.
可能我并不想在土星运行到我地图上确切位置的时候待在这里，所以我可能会去个更舒服的地方。
Probably don't wanna be here exactly when that Saturn transit's going right over my location on the map, so I might go see somewhere a little bit more enjoyable.
但没错。
But yeah.
当然。
Sure.
是的。
Yeah.
那挺酷的。
Well, that's pretty cool.
好的。
Okay.
所以我看到金星，还有，嗯，不错的居住环境。
So so Venus I see and, like, pretty good, like, living situation.
斯特拉斯堡在法国的哪个位置？
Where is Strasbourg located in France?
大概在哪儿？
Like, roughly
是的。
Yeah.
它就在卢森堡下方，紧挨着德国边境。
It's right below Luxembourg, right on the border of Germany.
明白了。
Got it.
所以那里是卢森堡。
So there's Luxembourg.
所以它位于法国东北部。
So it's up in, like, Northeastern France.
所以它真的就在你那儿，对吧。
So it really is, like, right on your Yeah.
冰金星IC线。
Ice Venus IC line.
是的。
Yeah.
而且那是我的家。
And it's it's home.
这是我世界上最喜欢的地方。
It's my favorite place in the world.
我以前从未有过家的感觉，而它就在IC线上，没错。
I've never felt a sense of home before, and it's, yeah, right there in the IC.
这是有意的吗？
Was that deliberate?
还是你只是偶然在IC线上到了那里？
Like Or did you just end up there on your IC line accidentally?
是的。
Yeah.
我之所以在那里，是因为我丈夫在斯特拉斯堡获得了一份教英语的工作。
I ended up there because my husband got a job teaching English there in Strasbourg.
于是我们被带到了那里，后来我了解了星舆学。
And so it took us there and then I learned about astrocartography actually.
自从搬到这里后，我更深入地研究了占星术。
And and got more deeply into astrology since moving here.
这很有趣，因为当我迁移星盘时，我自身的主宰星和事业的主宰星都与第九宫紧密相关。
And it's interesting because the ruler of myself and the ruler of my career is all connected to the ninth house when we relocate that chart.
所以，仅仅搬到这里，就激活了很多事情。
So a lot of things got activated just by moving here.
好的。
Okay.
让我重新计算一下星盘看看。
Let me relocate that just to see.
我得看看这个。
I gotta see this.
好的。
Okay.
在这儿。
There it is.
抱歉。
Sorry.
我没料到会这样。
I was not expecting okay.
好了。
There we go.
是的。
So Yeah.
这是你的迁徙星盘。
You this is your relocated chart.
这样看起来对吗？
Does this look right?
对的。
Yep.
没错。
Mhmm.
就是这样。
That's right.
好的。
Okay.
你看，金星就在双子座26度的位置，天底IC也正好在那附近。
So there's Venus right there at 26 degrees of Gemini, and there's the IC that's right there.
而且它还对冲着中天，这其实还挺不错的。
And so then it's also opposing the midheaven, which is pretty good.
嗯。
Mhmm.
你还能看到土星在上升点上方比较远的位置，因为你并没有完全落在土星线上，不过你的新上升点落在双鱼座22度，土星落在双鱼座11度。
And we see Saturn is above the ascendant quite a bit because you're not exactly on the Saturn line, but your new ascendant is at 22 Pisces and your Saturn is at 11 Pisces.
是的。
Yeah.
关于这张星盘，你知道，第九宫的天蝎座有木星落入，这在我的出生星盘中是我职业故事的一部分，但直到我搬到这里，我才真正激活了它，因为上升宫主和中天宫主都指向了现在木星所落的第九宫。
And the thing about this chart is, you know, that ninth house Scorpio with Jupiter there in the ninth, in my birth chart, that is a part of my career story, but I've never activated it until I moved here because the ruler of the ascendant and the ruler of the midheaven all point back to that ninth house where now Jupiter is now placed.
所以，这让我回到那个想法：你可以看看自己的出生星盘，找出星盘中正在发生的故事。
And so that's where I'm going back to that idea of, like, you can look at your birth chart and see what are the stories that are happening within your chart.
然后通过搬家，你就能激活生命中这些原本未被激活的领域。
And then by moving, you can then get activity into that area of life.
当然。
Sure.
即使是那些以前根本没被激活的领域吗？
Even areas that weren't otherwise, like, active previously?
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
这太酷了。
That's really cool.
好吧。
Alright.
你旅行中还有其他类似的运势故事吗？还是说到目前为止这些就是你的主要经历？
Have you had any other line stories in your travels, or or were you one of those your main ones so far?
我的木星落到了下降点，这带来了不可思议的体验——结识了太多人，比如通过播客和你取得联系，还有许多其他人主动联系我。自从我来到这里，木星移入第七宫后，来自他人的帮助、善意和支持真的源源不断。
I mean, I'm I'm I'm on my Jupiter descendant now, and that's been an incredible just so many contacts, people I've connected with, you connecting with you on the podcast, so many other people reaching out, like, lot of help and benevolence and just help from other people has really come my way since coming here when Jupiter relocates to the seventh house.
但我的火星上升点是我去过最艰难的地方。
But my Mars ascendant is my hardest place I've ever been to.
我和丈夫去埃及度蜜月时，我的火星上升点正好经过埃及。
I went on my honeymoon to Egypt, and my Mars ascendant is going right through Egypt.
那里对我来说真的非常艰难。
And it was a really hard place for me.
这时候我们就更详细地探讨一下，你的命盘火星是怎样的？
And that's when we kinda go into more detail of, like, what is your natal Mars?
你的命盘土星是怎样的？
What is your natal Saturn?
因为你正在更深入地了解这个故事。
Because you're getting more of that story.
比如，我的火星与天王星成刑相。
For instance, my Mars is squaring Uranus.
我的火星刑天王星落在火星线上时，那是一个非常爆发、不愉快、好斗、爱争执的地方，对我来说并不容易，那里的火星上升能量非常活跃。
My Mars square Uranus being on that Mars line, it was a very eruptive, unhappy, combative, argumentative place for me, not an easy place for me, and that Mars ascendant energy was really active there.
我认为这是因为我发现你天生就是日盘，这在星盘的派别上可能有很大影响，比如在日盘中，木星是最有利的吉星，而在夜盘中则是金星；对于像你这样的日盘人士，火星的位置会更具挑战性。
And I think because I noticed you have a day chart just natally and that probably makes a big difference in terms of the sect of the chart and like which planets which benefic is like the best one for you, like in a day chart that would be Jupiter or in a night chart that would be Venus and also which malefic, where for day chart people like yourself, your Mars placement is gonna be the more challenging one.
而对于夜盘人士来说，土星在命盘中更具挑战性，这种影响有时也会反映在星象地理线上。
Whereas for night chart people, Saturn is more challenging natally and that sometimes does transfer over to the astrocartography lines as well.
完全正确。
Absolutely.
我非常喜欢我的土星上升线，但讨厌我的火星上升线。
I love my Saturn ascended line, and I hate my Mars ascended line.
太疯狂了。
So wild.
我其实也是一样。
I am actually the same way.
所以你的星盘里，火星位于白羊座25度，天王星位于摩羯座26度，海王星位于摩羯座23度。
So I so in your chart, you have Mars at 25 Aries, and your Uranus is at 26 Capricorn, and Neptune's at 23 Capricorn.
所以你之前提到的这个刑相位，在那个地方会变得更加突出，甚至被激活了吗？
So that's the square you were talking about becomes much more prominent and becomes kind of unlocked in that location?
是的。
Yep.
对。
Mhmm.
明白了。
Okay.
让我重新定位一下，以便大家直观地看到。
So let me relocate that just to show people visually.
我们不会在整期节目中都这么做，但只是为了
We won't do this for the entire episode, but just to
是的。
Yeah.
让观众有个方向感。
You know, get people oriented.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Alright.
那只是一个地方，你知道的，如果我在街上看到什么不太好的事情，我会生气，或者类似的情况。
And it was just it was a place of, you know, if I saw something that was not really nice on the street, I would get mad or, you know, things like that.
就像这种由环境引发的隐隐怒火。
Like, just this this simmering anger that would come out by my environment.
我环境中的所见会引发那种火星能量。
What I saw in my environment would provoke that Mars.
所以那是那个故事中非常重要的一部分，对我来说真的很有挑战性。
And so that was a big big part of the story there, and it was it was really challenging for me.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得这非常有趣。
I think that's really interesting.
我也有过类似的经历，比如在火星线相关的问题上，我和他人发生过冲突，奇怪的是，这些冲突往往发生在火星线所对应的地理位置上，或者和来自那个地方的人发生冲突，这确实很奇怪，但基本上就是在你的火星线上，更容易遇到某些人或建立更具对抗性的关系。
And I had similar experiences with, like, a Mars line where I've had, like, a conflict with others on my Mars descendant lines have been with people weirdly, like, in or from the location of that Mars line, which is really weird sort of thinking about that, but just, like, running into to conflict with certain people or having certain types of relationships that are more combative on your Mars line, basically.
是的。
Yeah.
哦，对的。
Oh, yeah.
经常发生。
Happens a lot.
冲突和分手可能会发生在火星线上。
Conflict, breakups can happen on Mars lines.
你知道，火星喜欢切断联系。
You know, Mars loves to sever.
这个主题在很多人身上都会频繁出现。
There's that theme that comes up a lot for people.
另一件事是，谈谈历史，以及世界上发生的事情。
Another thing is, you know, talking about, like, history and, you know, what happens in the world.
我知道，吉姆·刘易斯在书中提到过，美国总统们在火星线经过世界不同地区时，往往伴随着战争的主题。
I've you know, Jim Lewis has talked about that in the book about how presidents, US presidents, there's a lot of war themes when they have Mars lines in different parts of the world.
比如杜鲁门，他的火星线穿过朝鲜。
So, you know, Truman, the Mars line in Korea.
你知道，有很多位总统都经历过火星线，而且我们确实观察到了一些模式和关联，即美国总统的火星线与世界各地发生的事件之间存在某种对应关系。
You know, there's lots of different presidents that have Mars lines, and there have been themes that we that are, you know, these patterns, these correlations with US presidents and their Mars lines in the world.
所以杜鲁门的那个例子就是他的火星线穿过朝鲜，然后是的。
So the Truman one was that his Mars line ran through Korea, and then Yeah.
二战之后，朝鲜战争爆发了，对吧？
After World War two, the Korean War took place, basically?
是的。
Yeah.
火星中天线，而且我认为他还存在冥王星与土星相位，正好在广岛的上升点上，也就是原子弹爆炸的地方。
The Mars IC line, and he also has Pluto crossing Saturn, I believe, on the ascendant right in Hiroshima in the Japan where the the, you know, the the bomb was dropped.
冥王星是另一个因素。
And Pluto is another thing.
吉姆·刘易斯谈到过冥王星，总统的冥王星线可能预示着死亡或暗杀企图。
Jim Lewis talks about Pluto, and Pluto lines for presidents can be deaths, assassination attempts.
比如，福特曾遭遇过暗杀企图。
Like, Ford had an assassination attempt.
肯尼迪在达拉斯被暗杀，当时正好在他的冥王星线上，而杜鲁门的冥王星线也正好经过广岛——原子弹爆炸的地方。
JFK was assassinated in Dallas on his Pluto line, and Truman has his Pluto line right over there in Hiroshima where the the bomb was dropped.
哇。
Wow.
好的。
Okay.
这真的太离奇了。
That is pretty crazy.
所以我刚才在astro.com上调出了杜鲁门的星盘，我还没来得及看时间，但现在已经显示出他的那些星线之类的相关信息了。
So I'm just I pulled up Truman's chart on astro.com, and I didn't glance at the time, but here's his lines, different things like that.
原来是这样，对的。
So there's yeah.
就像你说的那样，上升点和冥王星的星线正好穿过日本的南部区域，这点我们能看到。
Like you're saying, like, the ascendant and the Pluto lines, we can see running right through the lower parts of Japan.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
另外有些占星学家认为，冥王星是火星的更高阶表现——冥王星主宰死亡，而火星代表冲突或是战争。
And Pluto some astrologers, you know, say it's like a higher octave of Mars, you know, Pluto ruling death and Mars being conflict or war.
而且这正好在IC上，你知道的，陆地，而且非常靠近韩国。
And that's right on the IC, you know, the land, And that's going right right right close to Korea there.
所以这引出了另一个点，我们稍后可能会谈到，但他在这片区域有两条线，火星到达IC，而冥王星到达上升点。
So and that brings up another point that maybe we'll get into in a little bit, but but that he has two lines running through this area so that Mars comes to the IC and Pluto comes to the Ascendant.
所以当两条线交叉，或者一个行星到达一个角度，同时另一个行星到达另一个角度时，这也是一种特殊情况。
So that's actually something as well when either lines cross or when you get one planet coming to one angle and another planet simultaneously coming to another angle, that has a that's a special category.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
因为这会形成一个Paran，也会形成一条纬度线。
Because that creates a Paran or Paran, and it creates a latitude line.
当这些线交叉时，它们会在纬度上形成另一条线，这讲述着另一个故事。
And that latitude when those lines cross, they create another line at a latitude, and that tells another story.
但这只是对星图的次要影响，却非常重要。
But that's, yeah, secondary influence to the maps, but very important.
好的。
Okay.
不错。
Nice.
好的。
Alright.
嗯，这确实是我想深入探讨的内容。
Well, yeah, that's something I wanna get into.
除了那个之外，你自己还有没有其他值得注意的星线？
Have you had any other lines that were notable besides that, just yourself?
让我想想。
Let's see.
我的意思是，从帕伦的角度来看，我有很多帕伦的故事。
I mean, I traveled I mean, Paran wise, I have a lot of Paran stories.
在本地空间方面，我也有很多本地空间的故事。
Local space, I have a lot of local space stories.
不过那是另一回事了。
That's a separate thing, though.
但那些确实是主要的几个。
But, yeah, those were the main ones.
那些是我地图上最主要的故事。
Those were the main, like, stories I have for my map.
好的。
Okay.
很棒。
Cool.
至于我的情况，为了完整我的个人经历，我第一次搬去的地方是西雅图，去上学，那也是我的MC线。
And for mine, I just to round out my personal story, I moved the first place I moved to was Seattle to go to school, and that was my MC line.
之后，当我开始研究希腊化占星术时，搬到了马里兰州的坎伯兰，住在‘前景计划’两年。
And then after that, when I got into Hellenistic astrology, ended up moving to Cumberland, Maryland to live at Project Hindsight for two years.
奇怪的是，坎伯兰这个地点正好落在我的海王星中天线上。
And what was weird about that is that that brand Cumberland falls exactly on my Neptune Midheaven line.
哇。
Wow.
所以那两年变得相当奇妙，因为那段时间充满了典型的海王星特质，和许多拥有海王星强烈影响的人在一起。
So that ended up being pretty wild just because it's a very Neptunian sort of situation for that two year period with different people that had Neptune.
那里每个人星盘中的海王星都非常突出。
Everybody there had Neptune very prominent in their char.
施密特的海王星与水星成刑相，其他人也有突出的海王星影响。
Schmidt had Neptune square Mercury and other people had Neptune prominent.
那里发生过许多奇妙而神秘的事情，但有时也会出现一些奇怪的、典型的海王星式状况，是的。
There were very cool of mystical things going on, but then there was also sometimes weird, like, Neptunian stuff going on Yeah.
比如沟通不畅、信息不清晰，或者截止日期混乱之类的问题。
Of in terms of, like, not good communication or not clear communication or or deadlines and things like that.
那段时间我确实经历了一次强烈的海王星行运，两年后我最终离开了那里，前往别处继续我自己的希腊占星研究，不再依赖那个环境。
And it was definitely, like, an intense sort of Neptune transit during that time that I then like came out of eventually after two years and left and went elsewhere to proceed pursue my own research in Hellenistic astrology and do it outside of of that.
但这段经历很有趣，我从一个土星中天线直接过渡到海王星中天线，这种对比非常鲜明。
But it was interesting having that experience of going from like a Saturn midheaven line all the way to a Neptune midheaven line and just like the contrast.
完全不同。
So different.
我知道。
I know.
当你处于那个海王星能量线时，有没有感到一种模糊、混沌，或者边界消融的感觉？
Like, when you were on that Neptune line, did you feel a sense of, like, fogginess or the the cloudiness or, like, a sense of dissolving boundaries?
类似这样的体验吗？
Anything like that?
还有你的日常生活、心态之类的？
And just, your day to day life mindset, things like that?
是的。
Yeah.
我有个有趣的小故事，以前在播客里讲过几次，我记得有一次去机场接我的朋友尼克·德根·贝斯特。
I have this funny anecdote I've told a few times in the podcast before, but I just remember picking up my friend Nick Degan Best from the airport one time and we're driving back to Cumberland.
当时我正向他解释，我说：‘我现在也不太明白这些海王星行运到底意味着什么，因为海王星当时正好运行到我的上升点上。’
And I was explaining to him, I was like, Yeah, I don't know what this Neptune transits are about right now because Neptune is also transiting over my Ascendant at the time.
他一听就大笑起来，因为当时我们正开车穿越一场大雾，能见度极低，我们正艰难地驶回坎伯兰。
And he burst out laughing because, like, we were driving, like, in a fog storm, and I could, like we could barely see, and we're driving back into Cumberland.
这简直就是个完美的隐喻，因为确实有一些非常好的方面，但同时也有点像邪教一样的东西。
And it was just a perfect metaphor for that because there were definitely some very good things, but there's also some kind of culty type things at the same time.
只有当你走过海王星相位的另一端，才能更清楚地看到哪些是真正好的，哪些是当时看似真实却带有幻象的东西。
And it was only sometimes once you come out the other side of Neptune transits that you sort of see more clearly, the things that were good or the things that were a little bit illusory about what was going on.
我想，对我而言，这也是其中一部分。
And I think that was part of it for me as well.
哦，这太酷了。
Oh, that is so cool.
哇。
Wow.
这也太贴切了。
That's so literal.
是的。
Yeah.
确实非常贴切。
It's very literal.
所以这就是我一直非常推崇星位地理线的原因，因为我有过一些非常真切的个人经历，在我生命中某些特别的时刻，我对那些地方的记忆恰好与这些星位线所象征的原型意义完全吻合。
So that's why I've always been a big fan of astrocartography lines just because I've had those personal experiences that were very visceral at very distinctive points in my life where my memory of those places actually matches archetypally what those lines are supposed to symbolize.
所以，是的，我认为我们两人都有非常棒的个人例子，这很不错，我很高兴我们做了这次分享。
So, yeah, I think both of us have good really good personal examples then, so that's pretty good, and I'm glad we did that.
接下来我们该往哪里去呢？
Where should we move for from here?
还有没有其他基础性的东西我们还没 setup？或者你想要直接跳到其他概念或具体的星盘案例？
Are there any other, like, foundational things we haven't set up, or or do you wanna jump into other concepts or specific example charts?
好的。
Yeah.
我很想聊聊金·卡戴珊的星盘，但我也想稍微讨论一下帕伦点，因为当我们谈论地点时，它往往是决定成败的关键因素。
I'd love to talk about Kim Kardashian's chart, but I do wanna discuss Paran's a little bit because that's such a huge make it or break it kind of thing when we're talking about place.
而且你在 astro.com 上看不到这些点。
And you can't really see them on astro.com.
它们是隐形的。
They're invisible.
你得在 astro.com 上点来点去，或者点击右上角的‘显示详情’，这样才会显示出纬度交线，也就是父母线。
You have to click around or click the little show details on the upper right hand corner on astro.com, and that'll show you the latitude crossings, which are parents.
纬度交线就是纬度线。
And latitude crossings are latitude lines.
它们基本上是横跨全球的线，位于两个角度线相交的精确纬度位置。
They're basically lines that go across the globe at a latitude, at exactly that point of intersection when two angular lines cross.
它们的半径大约为70英里，也就是向北70英里和向南70英里范围内。
And they have a radius of about 70 miles, so 70 miles north and 70 miles south.
但当我们讨论两个行星的组合时，才会出现这种情况。
But that's when we're getting a combination of two planets.
当这两条线相交时，就会形成一个‘paran’，这时我们就能看到这两个行星在该纬度点上的故事。
When they when those two lines cross, they create a a paran, and then we're getting that that story of those two planets at that exact point of latitude.
你在 astro.com 上说的那个按钮在哪里？
Where's the button you were talking about on astro.com?
是的。
Yeah.
所以当你在 astro.com 的地图功能中，向下滚动一点，你会看到，实际上点击地图上的某个点。
So when you go to astro.com on the on the maps feature, if you scroll down a little bit, you'll see and you click on a actually, click on a point on the map somewhere.
随便点击一个点就行。
Just click some random point.
然后如果向上滚动一点，就会有一个‘显示详情’的选项在那里。
And then if you scroll up a little bit, there's, like, a show details right there.
小小的
A little
是的。
yeah.
这个功能有点隐蔽，这就是为什么我更喜欢其他一些软件，比如 Solar Fire，因为那里可以明显看到。
It's kind of hidden, which is why I do like some other softwares because you can see it visibly on, like, Solar Fire.
但在 astro.com 上，你也可以调出来，它就在那里。
But on astro.com, you can pull them up, but it's it'll be right there.
所以你可以看到，比如火星和凯龙星在世界上的某个区域交叉。
And so you can see, you know, Mars and Chiron were crossing at a certain part in the world.
因此，这条线会经过该区域的某个纬度。
And so that line is then going through that area at a latitude.
所以你不仅感受到那些行星线，还会根据你所处的纬度，同时感受到火星和凯龙星的影响。
So you're feeling not only those planetary lines, but you're also getting depending on where you are on a latitude, you're getting Mars and Chiron too.
好的。
Okay.
所以这个
So this
这又是杜鲁门的星盘。
is this is Truman's chart again.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
至于配对星，它们确实会深刻影响我们的感受。
And I don't you know, the thing with Parans is they really affect how we feel.
所以，对于个人经历或客户来说，这会相对容易一些，因为你可以直接问他们：当时在情感上你感觉怎么样？
So it's a bit easier with, like, personal anecdotes or clients because you can ask them, like, you know, what was how are you feeling here emotionally?
但某些相位确实很难处理，比如土星-月亮、火星-天王星、火星-冥王星。
But certain parens are really hard, like Saturn moon, Mars Uranus, Mars Pluto.
你知道的，在某些纬度上的特定相位可能会比较棘手。
You know, certain parens at a latitude can be difficult.
所以，即使你身处一条很好的星线，比如有一条很棒的金星线，某个相位也可能影响你整体的感受。
So even if you're on a great line, even if you've got a great Venus line, that one Paran can offset how you're feeling somewhere.
你刚才说你又有一个相位的故事吗？
And did you say you had a Paran story again?
还是说我们之前提到的那些城市中，有一个对你来说是相位相关的？
Or because or was one of the cities that we talked about for you, was that a Paran?
是的。
Yeah.
其中一个在纽约。
One of them is in New York.
我曾经经历过金星-凯龙相位经过纽约。
I had a Venus Chiron Paran going through New York.
你偶尔会用凯龙星吗？
Do you use Chiron by chance?
是的。
Yes.
我很不情愿地使用它。
I do very reluctantly.
我非常反感它居然有效，但我不得不非常勉强地承认，凯龙星确实有效，而且它所代表的含义往往并不愉快。
I'm very annoyed that it works, but I have to, like, very reluctantly admit that Chiron does work and it does signify exactly what it's supposed to, which is often not pleasant.
但不幸的是，当这种情况发生时，它的影响有时太强烈了，你根本无法忽视它。
But unfortunately, it can be so loud sometimes when that happens that you you can't help but but acknowledge it.
哦，对的。
Oh, yeah.
还有疗愈、失望、拒绝，所有这些主题。
And healing and disappointment, rejection, all of those themes.
所以当我身处纽约时，金星与凯龙星正好经过纽约市。
So I when was in New York, I had a Venus Chiron going through New York City.
那里有很多被拒绝的经历。
There's a lot of rejection.
那里也有很多心碎的时刻。
There was a lot of heartbreak there.
那段时间在感情上比较悲伤。
It was a sadder time relationally.
但我再举个例子，因为在斯特拉斯堡有一个更好的例子。
But I'll give an example another example, because there's definitely a better one in Strasbourg.
在斯特拉斯堡，如果你去看星图的话，是这样的。
In Strasbourg, if you go to the map yeah.
回到斯特拉斯堡的金星与IC线，在斯特拉斯堡正好，我有太阳与天王星的对分相，而且在我的星盘中太阳与天王星呈三分相。
So going back to Strasbourg on that Venus IC line, in Strasbourg exactly, I have a sun Uranus paran, and I have sun trine Uranus in my chart.
所以，你知道，这一切都源自星盘，并在星图上显现出来。
And so, you know, it starts from the chart, and it's showing on the map.
所以那个太阳天王星的星象关联正好穿过斯特拉斯堡，完全没错。
And so that sun Uranus story is going right through Strasbourg Exactly.
说到帕拉恩（Paran）星盘，你要——唔。
With Paran, you wanna mhmm.
我给你展示一张重置星盘，因为在那上面基本上能把这个 visualized（可视化呈现）出来。
I'll show you a relocated chart because it can be visualized there essentially.
对吧？
Right?
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
但这个弧轴（Paran）是一条纬度线，它在地图上是笔直横穿的，正好穿过斯特拉斯堡。
But the the Paran is a latitude line, and so that goes straight across the map right in Strasbourg.
好的。
Okay.
那是一个发现我真实自我的地方，发现我是谁，了解关于叛逆和忠于自我的各种主题。
And it's a it was a place of discovering my authenticity, discovering who I am, discovering, you know, themes around rebellion and and being true to self.
太阳与天王星的故事就出现在这个纬度上。
The sun Uranus story came out at that latitude.
而去其他地方，比如我住过一个太阳与土星的平行线上，那里非常受限、非常孤立，但非常专注于工作。
Whereas going to more other places, like I lived on a sun Saturn paran, very restrictive, very isolating, but very focused on work.
所以，即使我靠近同一条线、相同的重定位星盘，但在不同纬度上的体验却截然不同。
So even though I'm close to the the same line, same relocated charts, the experience was different being at different latitudes.
好的。
Okay.
明白了。
Got it.
所以有时候——虽然这里不一定如此——但平行线有时就像一颗行星在上升，另一颗在中天，或者一颗行星在中天而另一颗在落下，诸如此类的不同情况。
And so sometimes so this wasn't necessarily the case here, but sometimes a Paran is like one planet rising and another culminating or one planet culminating in another setting and different things like that.
对。
Mhmm.
是的
Yeah.
所以你在观察，某些地方会同时有特定行星落在角度上，这使得这些地点在全球范围内都极其独特。
So so you're looking at so there's certain places just where certain planets are gonna hit angles at the same time, and that's gonna be really, like, hyper unique to that specific location in the world.
是的
Yeah.
而在这种行星交汇的能量点，力量最为强大，但这一纬度会环绕全球，延续着这组行星组合的故事。
And that energy where that crossing is is the most powerful, but then that latitude continues around the globe, the story of that that combination of planets.
因此，这项工作最令人惊叹的地方在于，你不必搬离本国或跨越全球就能改变自己的感受。
And so just moving that's the amazing thing about this work is, like, you don't have to move across the country or across the globe to change how you feel.
仅仅向南移动30英里，或向北移动一小时的车程，就可能显著地影响你的情绪。
Just moving 30 miles south, an hour north can drastically, dramatically affect how you're feeling.
因此，父母们会关注那些纬度线南北70英里范围内的区域。
And so parents have that 70 mile radius north and south of those lines.
好的
Okay.
明白了。
Got it.
好的。
Alright.
那么，从例子来看，你想看看某个具体的星盘吗？
So in terms of examples, do you wanna jump into any example charts here?
哦，当然。
Oh, yeah.
我们来谈谈金·卡戴珊。
Let's talk about Kim Kardashian.
她的星盘非常有趣。
She has a really interesting chart.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
Awesome.
还有那个。
And that.
这是她单独的定时出生图。
So here's her timed birth chart just on its own.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以她上升星座是射手座13度，上升星座为射手座，海王星在射手座20度附近靠近上升点。
So she has Sagittarius rising at 13, Sag rising, Neptune's near the ascendant at 20 Sag.
她的天顶星象原本在处女座28度，而在日盘中木星正好位于其上。
Her midheaven natally is at 28 Virgo, and Jupiter is like right directly on it in a day chart.
金星则在另一侧，大约偏离9度，位于处女座19度。
And Venus is on the other side about nine degrees off at 19 Virgo.
哇。
Wow.
是的。
Yeah.
这会在洛杉矶的星图上显现出来。
And that's gonna pull up on the map in LA.
她会迎来木星和月亮的升起，因为它们正好位于脚踝位置。
She's gonna have that Jupiter and that moon come up because it's so right on the ankle.
这对她来说非常有力。
So it's very powerful for her.
请给我一秒钟。
Give me just a second.
在我调出她的针盘时，还有没有其他特别突出的地方？
Is there anything else while I'm pulling this up about her needle chart that's striking?
我一向用她作为第十一宫的典型例子，因为她有第十一宫的星体配置，而且她最初是巴黎·希尔顿的朋友，正是借此开启了更广阔的职业生涯。
I've always used her as a good example of the eleventh house because she has eleventh house placements and originally she was a friend of Paris Hilton and that was how she parlayed that into a larger career.
我的意思是，我认为她第四宫的守护星位于第十宫，这表明家庭与事业之间存在联系。
Well, I mean, the ruler of her I believe it's the ruler of her fourth is in her tenth, so there's a connection with family being part of the career.
而且我看到她的月亮正好穿过洛杉矶、家庭，而木星在中天，带来事业上的好运，第四宫也与代表事业的第十宫相连。
And she's got that moon I see going right through LA, the family, and then the Jupiter emcee, that good luck with career, and that, you know, fourth house is connected to the tenth house of career.
木星入中天对很多人来说是非常成功、非常幸运的配置。
Jupiter emcee can be very, you know, very successful, very lucky places for people.
所以她有月亮和木星，说到月亮和木星，我觉得这是一种乐观的组合。
And so she's and moon Jupiter, you know, I think about moon Jupiter, I mean, it's optimistic.
这是一种充满希望的能量。
It's hopeful.
这是一种放纵的感觉。
It's that, you know, indulgence.
这是一种非常美好的能量组合，而且它们就在这里。
It's it's a really lovely combination of energies, and they're right there.
这真的很有意思。
So that was really interesting.
显然，她在家庭方面取得了许多成功。
I mean, she's obviously had a lot of success involving her family.
她还有另一个非常棒的例子。
Another really cool example with her.
而且她的母亲尤其如此，她母亲在几乎像管理整个家庭事务方面扮演了重要角色。
And her mother specifically as well, and just like the the role her mom has played in almost like sort of managing the family and everything.
是的。
Yeah.
完全正确。
Totally.
不过，关于巴黎的事情真的很有趣。
Really cool, though, about Paris.
我不知道你是否记得她当年在巴黎遭遇抢劫的事，而她的星盘中正好有几条显著的星线穿过巴黎地区。
I don't know if you remember when she was robbed in Paris, and she's got some striking lines going through that area for Paris for her.
所以首先，是的。
So first off yeah.
所以看这里。
So here it is.
这是她的欧洲星迹图。
So here's the astrocartography chart for Europe for her.
是的。
Yeah.
这真的很有趣。
This is really interesting.
我记得她是在巴黎的酒店房间里被抢劫的。
I it was I believe it was Paris where she was robbed in her hotel room.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但天王星与下降点的连线正好穿过巴黎。
But that Uranus descendant is going right through Paris.
天王星带来的是突发的、出人意料的事件，通常涉及他人或外部事件突然曝光，天王星总是如此突然、毫无预兆。
Uranus bringing erratic, you know, out of nowhere things happening involving others or external events coming out to light that Uranus being very, you know, sudden out of nowhere.
她这里还有冥王星在上升点，所以我想到的是身体、自我、创伤，还有安全方面的问题。
She also has Chiron on the ascendant here, so I think of, like, the body, the self, the woundedness, this you know, I think of safety things.
但更有趣的是，火星和冥王星正好经过法兰克福，而它们交汇的点也接近巴黎，形成火星与冥王星的叠加配置。
But then what's also really interesting is Mars and Pluto are crossing over near Frankfurt, and at that point of crossing is where that pairing of Mars Pluto Mars Pluto pairing is forming there, which would be a bit I think it would be within orb of Paris as well.
所以她身上有很多火星与冥王星的能量，你知道的，这代表暴力或毁灭。
So it's like she's got a lot of you know, Mars Pluto is, you know, violence or destruction.
你知道吗？
You know?
而那种能量的纬度也离巴黎非常近。
And that energy, that latitude would be very close to Paris as well.
是的。
Yeah.
比如火星与冥王星合相下降点，这简直就是武装抢劫的绝佳隐喻或原型——有人强迫你做你不想做的事，然后抢走你的东西。
Like Mars Pluto conjunct descendant, that's like a great metaphor or like archetype for like an armed robbery where literally people are like compelling you to do something you don't wanna do and they're snatching.
他们夺走了你的东西。
They're taking something from you.
你的财产在被迫的情况下被强行剥夺，这非常符合冥王星的特质。
You're having your possessions, like, severed under compulsion, which is a very Pluto thing.
是的。
Yeah.
完全正确。
Totally.
而且天王星也正好经过巴黎。
And then that Uranus going right through Paris too.
就像那种不稳定性一样。
Like, you know, the volatility of that as well.
所以整个区域对她来说似乎一点都不轻松，我觉得这真是一个非常有趣的实际例子，说明了她身上发生的事情，这成了她生命中的一个故事。
So it's like this whole area doesn't look easy for her at all, and I thought that was such an interesting literal example of what happened to her, that that being a story for her there.
是的。
Yeah.
让我重新定位她的星盘，从视觉上看看，因为我只是想确认一下，如果我们重新定位，我相信我们会发现火星与冥王星确实非常接近。
Let me relocate her chart just to see that visually because I just wanna see because if we relocate it, I'm sure we'll see how the Mars Pluto is actually very close to that.
对。
Yeah.
不知为什么，这个显示得不太好。
For some reason, this isn't coming up well.
让我看看。
Let me here.
这样看起来对吗？
Like, does this look right?
迁移到法国巴黎？
Relocated to Paris, France?
好的。
Okay.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
这样看起来不错。
That looks good.
所以是的。
So yeah.
所以天王星的下降点正好在下降点上？
So there's urine the Uranus descendant right on the descendant?
是的。
Yeah.
明白了。
Got it.
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
就在这里。
It's right there.
所以非常精确，因为天王星正好位于那个角度的下降点，这在地图上显示出来了。
So it's very exact because that Uranus is right on the descendant at that angle, so that's showing up on the map.
凯龙星在我们的上升点上。
Chiron's on our ascendant.
是的。
Yeah.
这相当引人注目。
So that's pretty striking.
所以就像对啊。
So it's just like Yeah.
有时候你在世界不同地方经历的困难处境。
Sometimes difficult experiences you have in different parts of the world.
但这并不意味着，我的意思是，这些经历总是全面负面的，或者你不能去某些地方旅行。
And that doesn't mean I mean, that it's always, like, across the board negative experiences or that you can't go to certain play parts of the world.
我不这么认为。
I don't think necessarily.
它只是意味着，有时那个行星的原型会更加突出。
It just means sometimes the archetype of that planet will be more prominent.
如果那是你星盘中具有挑战性的部分，那么有时这可能会导致一些具有挑战性的经历。
And if that's a challenging part of your chart, then sometimes that can lend itself to sometimes challenging experiences.
是的。
Yeah.
尤其是时机方面。
Especially with timing.
你知道，另一个因素是，当你遇到困难的星象过渡，或者你的星盘正处于艰难时期，再叠加一条困难线或进入一个不利区域时，就会让情况更加明显。
You know, that's the other component is when you've got a hard transit or, like, it's a hard time in your chart, and then you go to a hard line on top of that or a difficult area, it's just bringing that more.
你知道的吧？
You know?
好的。
Okay.
这说得通。
That makes sense.
好的。
Okay.
这对她来说是个很好的例子。
So that's a good example for her.
你对金·卡戴珊的星盘还有其他要说的吗？
Did you have anything else for Kim Kardashian's chart?
关于金·卡戴珊就这些了。
That was it for Kim Kardashian.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
酷。
Cool.
之前不是还有一个吗？
There were some wasn't there one?
你不是说希拉里·克林顿有一个不错的吗？
Didn't you say, like, Hillary Clinton had a good one?
是的。
Yeah.
希拉里·克林顿的木星下降点正好穿过她与比尔结婚的那一点。
Hillary Clinton, she's her Jupiter descendant going right through where she married Bill.
木星后裔。
Jupiter descendant.
是的。
Yeah.
我经常在客户身上看到这种后裔线。
I see that so often with clients is descendant lines.
木星后裔，对婚姻和涉及他人的仪式很重要。
Jupiter descendant, big for marriage, big for ceremonies involving others.
木星后裔线。
Jupiter descendant lines.
但她有一个像希拉里·克林顿那样的木星后裔，正好穿过她结婚的位置。
But she's got a Hillary Clinton as a Jupiter descendant going right through where she got married.
是的。
Yeah.
让我查一下。
Let me pull that up.
所以在astro.com上，这看起来是这样的。
So here's what that looks like on astro.com.
而且，是的，我们看到木星线——木星下降线，在astro.com上是粉红色的，贯穿了这个地区的整个部分。
And, yeah, we just see that Jupiter line Jupiter descendant line, which is pink on astro.com just, like, running through this whole part of the country.
是的。
Yep.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
真的很有趣。
Really interesting.
是
Was
她结婚的地方是在阿肯色州吗？
she were they married in was it in Arkansas?
是的。
Yeah.
关于 Bayt 播客
Bayt 提供中文+原文双语音频和字幕，帮助你打破语言障碍，轻松听懂全球优质播客。