占星师还是占星家：哪个是更受青睐的称谓？

嘿，我叫克里斯·布伦南，你正在收听《占星播客》。

Hey, my name is Chris Brennan and you're listening to The Astrology Podcast.

在这一集中，我将与占星师莱莎·谢姆交谈，我们会讨论对于从事占星领域的人，正确的称呼是‘astrologist’还是‘astrologer’。

In this episode, I'm going to be talking with astrologer Leisa Schaim and we're going to be discussing whether the correct designation is astrologist or astrologer for a person who practices the topic of astrology.

嘿，莱莎。

So hey, Leisa.

谢谢你来参加。

Thanks for joining me.

嘿，克里斯。

Hey, Chris.

很高兴能来这里。

Glad to be here.

是的。

Yeah.

谢谢你再次回来。

Thanks for coming back again.

所以这是第339期节目。

So this is episode three thirty nine.

我们于2022年2月8日星期二录制，实际开始时间为下午1点05分，地点是科罗拉多州丹佛。

We're recording on Tuesday, 02/08/2022, starting at twelve actually starting at 01:05PM in Denver, Colorado.

为了为这场讨论设定背景，我将直接回答最开头的问题——对于那些只想知道答案、想弄清楚到底是用astrologer还是astrologist的人，因为公众对此存在主要困惑。

In order to set up the context for this discussion, I'm actually going to answer the question right at the top for those of you that just want an answer to the question and want to find out whether it's astrologer or astrologist because there's confusion amongst the public mainly about what the correct designation is.

这个问题的答案是：更推荐的称呼是astrologer，而不是astrologist。

And the answer to that question is that the preferred designation is astrologer, not astrologist.

在2022年、二十一世纪初的当下，绝大多数从事占星实践的人已经采纳并更偏好使用astrologer这个称呼。

This is the designation astrologer that the vast majority of practitioners who practice astrology have adopted and prefer at this point in time in the year 2022 in the early twenty first century.

尽管astrologist在语法上并不错误，而且过去也曾偶尔使用过，但如今在从业者中它已不是首选的称呼。

So while astrologist is not grammatically incorrect and it has some historical precedent where it's been used occasionally in the past, it's not the preferred designation among practitioners today at this point in time.

所以，当不确定时，始终使用astrologer这个词，而不是astrologist。

So when in doubt, always use the word astrologer rather than astrologist.

这基本上就是这个问题的答案。

And that's basically the answer to the question.

接下来，我们将进行更深入的讨论，以澄清并解释为什么会这样，并探讨与此相关的各种问题，供那些希望深入了解这一话题细节的人参考。

And what we're going do at this point is we're going to have a more expanded discussion to clarify and explain why that's the case and talk about some of the issues surrounding it for those that want more of a deep dive answer into this topic and sort of the ins and outs of it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们特别想向占星界之外的人澄清这一点，因为通常对这个问题有困惑的并不是占星师本身，而是更广泛的公众。

And we particularly want to clarify this and have a discussion for people outside of the astrological community because it is usually the greater public as a whole rather than astrologers per se that have an issue with this.

是的。

Yeah.

这主要是公众中存在的混淆。

So it's mainly something where there's confusion in the public.

占星界内部的占星师们绝大多数都知道这个问题的答案，所以这根本不是问题。

People that are astrologers inside the community, the vast majority of them know what the answer to that question is, so it's not an issue.

但由于界外存在混淆，许多不了解情况的人会误用术语，使用‘astrologist’这个词。

But because there's confusion outside of the community, often people who don't know any better will use the wrong term and will use the term astrologist.

这正是‘astrologist’一词至今仍被广泛使用的主要原因——因为不了解情况的人在使用这个词。

That's really one of the reasons why the term astrologist is still around today as much as it is, it's because of people who don't know any better using that term.

所以我实际上在八年前，差不多就是今天，金星的一个会合周期或逆行周期——2014年2月10日——写过一篇关于这个话题的文章。

So I actually wrote an article about this eight years ago, almost eight years ago today, one Venus synodic cycle or retrograde cycle on 02/10/2014.

我在旧博客《星象占星博客》上发表了一篇文章，标题是《是Astrologer还是Astrologist？》

I published an article on my old blog called The Horoscopic Astrology Blog titled Is It Astrologer or Astrologist?

我们今天的很多讨论都将基于这篇文章，因为我在那篇文章中所说的大部分内容至今仍然非常准确。

And a lot of our discussion is going to be based on this because most of what I said in that article is still pretty accurate today.

由于社交媒体以及Facebook、Instagram和最近Twitter上发生的一些变化，出现了一些细微的变动。

There's been some little minor changes that have occurred due to social media and due to some stuff that's happened with Facebook and Instagram and recently Twitter.

但总体而言，那篇文章仍然准确，我之所以想在这个播客中展开讨论，是因为这个问题频繁出现，经常被人问到，我想借此深入探讨这个话题的细节。

But for the most part, that article is still accurate and I just wanted to have this discussion on the podcast because it still comes up so frequently and it's a question that gets asked so often that I wanted to have an extended discussion to go into the details of this topic.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

从技术上讲，Astrologist确实是一个真实存在的单词。

So technically, astrologist is an actual word.

它有时被用作占星师的同义词。

It is sometimes used as a synonym for astrologer.

但《牛津英语词典》指出，'astrologist'一词的使用频率低于'astrologer'，而且在从业者中也不是首选术语——这一点更为重要。

But the Oxford English Dictionary says that the word astrologist is less common than astrologer and not the preferred term amongst practitioners, which is the more important part, that second part.

占星师们普遍不会用这个词来描述自己。

Astrologers do not by and large use this term to describe themselves.

对。

Right.

所以就连《牛津英语词典》也承认，'astrologist'不仅使用较少，而且也不是从业者偏好的术语。

So even the Oxford English Dictionary recognizes that astrologist is less commonly used, one, and that two, that it's not the preferred term amongst practitioners.

这一点非常关键，因为它来自占星界外部的权威来源，实际上印证了我们在这里要表达的观点。

So that's a very important part in terms of an external source from outside of the astrological community basically confirming what we're saying here, what we're about to say.

此外，我还想分享一些最近所做的调查数据，以及我们对当前占星师中使用'astrologer'与'astrologist'比例的估算。

Additionally, wanted to give some statistics based on some polls that I did recently and just based on our own estimations of how many astrologers use astrologer versus astrologist or what have you.

总的来说，在进入具体统计数据之前，当今世界上大约有90%到99%的占星从业者更希望被称为'astrologer'，而且他们通常不喜欢被称作'astrologist'，因为这并不是他们自我认同的称谓。

Generally speaking, before getting into any hardcore statistics, somewhere between ninety percent to 99% of practitioners of actual astrologers in the world today prefer to be called astrologers and oftentimes do not like to be referred to as an astrologist because that's not the designation that they usually use for themselves.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

这使得“astrologer”成为更准确的称谓。

It arguably makes astrologer the more correct designation.

这就像你若把心理学家称为‘psychologer’，我其实在网上查过，发现它的用法和‘astrologist’类似，标注为罕见，而推荐使用‘psychologist’。

And it's kind of like if you thought of calling psychologists a 'psychologer', which I actually looked up online and it says in a kind of a similar fashion to the astrologist, it says rare and then it says psychologist as the preferred term.

这表明了类似的情况：从技术上讲，这个词确实存在，但如今已很少使用。

And so it's kind of indicating a very similar thing that, yeah, technically it's kind of a word, but it's not usually used these days.

是的，这是一种过时的用法，可能因为绝大多数真正的心理学家使用的是‘psychologist’这个术语，而不是‘psychologer’。

Yeah, it's like an archaic usage that's probably fallen out of usage because the vast majority of actual psychologists use the term or psychologists I should say use the term psychologist not psychologist.

你可以想象，一个不了解情况的人可能在类似这样的播客里听到‘psychologer’这个词，然后误用它。

And you could see how somebody that doesn't know any better maybe heard the term psychologist somewhere like on a podcast like this and then maybe would use the term not knowing.

但如果一位真正的心理学家听到这个词，会觉得很奇怪或不妥，因为绝大多数从事这一专业的人使用的都不是这个词。

But then if an actual psychologist heard that, it would just strike them weird or it would strike them the wrong way because that's not the term that the vast, vast majority of people that specialize in that profession use.

对。

Right.

我觉得这是个很好的例子，因为如果你不是占星师，你可能会想：‘这有什么大不了的？’

I think it's a good example because if you're not an astrologer, maybe you're like, Well, what's the big deal?

但你可以把它和其他一些人们更熟悉的 professions 词汇进行比较，尤其是对于非占星师的人来说。

But you compare it to other words, other profession words that people are more accustomed to thinking about if they're not an astrologer.

他们会想：‘哦，对啊，如果你突然称心理学家为‘psychologer’，那听起来确实很奇怪。’

And they're like, Oh, yeah, that would be weird if you suddenly tried to call a psychologist a psychologist.

他们可能会不断纠正你，对吧？

They'd probably keep correcting you, right?

而这显然牵涉到一个更大的话题，那就是语言和语言的使用。

And obviously this links into a larger topic which is just language and the use of language.

语言部分基于规则，比如通用规则，但也基于集体共识。

It's partially based on rules, like general rules, but it's also based on collective agreement.

因此，有些词语会随着时间推移而兴起或衰落，因为人们达成了共识，认为某个词才是正确的用法。

So some words fall in and out of fashion over time because there's a collective agreement that that's the proper term.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

而且只是由于当时的趋势和偏好。

And just due to the trends and preferences at the time.

我们接下来要讨论的一件事是内部语言，即群体内部成员如何称呼自己或他们的常用说法，与外部人员使用的称呼之间的区别，以及谁有权决定这种称谓。

And one of the things we're going to get into here is just like insider language and what people within a group call themselves or what their common usage is versus outsider language of people outside a group and what they might use and who gets to set that designation.

难道群体内部的人不应该有权自行决定他们偏好的称谓吗？还是说，这种称谓应该由外部人员来决定？

It's like should the people within the group have the ability to sort of call themselves whatever their preferred designation is or should that be dictated by outsiders for some reason?

我认为，对大多数人来说，如果你仔细思考这个问题——无论我们讨论的是哪个群体、子群体或任何其他类别——当你思考这个问题时，通常会得出这样的结论：真正实践或相信这件事的人，应该有权决定其专业称谓是什么。

And I think for most people, if you think about that, no matter what group or subset or whatever that we're talking about, when you think about that question, usually you would come to the conclusion like, well, the people that actually practice or believe in that thing should probably be the ones that determine what to call it in terms of whatever the professional designation is.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

是的，在社会科学如社会学和人类学中，有一个长期讨论的问题，正好被称为内群体与外群体问题。

Yeah, in the social sciences like sociology and anthropology, there's a long talked about thing labeled exactly that, the insider outsider problem.

它涉及的不仅仅是语言，但其中最主要的一点是，你至少应该承认该群体的语言使用方式。

It goes into other pieces as well besides language, but one of the primary things is you are supposed to at a minimum acknowledge what the language use is.

否则，你作为研究者将不会被认真对待。

Otherwise, you're not going to be taken seriously as a person studying that.

是的。

Yeah.

让我想想，与此相关的还有几点。

Let's see, there's a few points to go with that.

比如，还有其他一些领域也存在过时的用法。

Mean, one of the others was to mention, you know, there's other fields like that that have archaic usages.

比如，如果说‘天文学家’是从事天文学研究者的首选称谓，而称他们为‘astronomist’听起来就很别扭，因为我们不习惯这么叫，通常人们都不会这么称呼天文学家。

Like if you said astronomer is the preferred designation for somebody that practices astronomy versus calling them an astronomist, that hits your ear wrong because we're not used to hearing that because that's not usually what people call an astronomer.

对。

Right.

是的，当然。

Yeah, definitely.

对，他们也会反对。

Yeah, and they would object as well.

是的，他们肯定会反对，而且这样做是正确的，即使从某种技术性角度来说，这个词可能存在历史用法，但当前从业者的主流用法最终应当占主导地位。

Yeah, they would totally object and would be right for doing so even if on some sort of technicality if there's some sort of historical precedent for that word, the prevailing usage ultimately should win out among current practitioners.

我想展示一些我做的不同调查，来支持我的观点，即90%到99%的占星师更倾向于使用‘astrologer’而不是‘astrologist’，以提供一些数据。

I wanted to show some different polls that I did just to back up what I'm saying in terms of the statistics of 90 to 99% of astrologers preferring the term astrologer instead of astrologist just to give some data.

这些是非常近期的调查，而且并不科学，因为我是在社交媒体上做的，对公众开放。

These are very recent polls and it's very unscientific because I did them on social media so they were open to the public.

有些人只是开玩笑或故意捣乱，因为他们并没有认真对待，而我也没有刻意强调说‘请认真作答’，因为那样反而会产生反效果。

And some people were just joking around and trolling because they weren't taking it seriously and I didn't really present it as if I worried if I was like, Serious answers, please, then that would actually have the opposite effect.

所以我只是说：‘占星领域的学生和从业者，你更喜欢‘astrologist’还是‘astrologer’这个术语？’

So I just said, two students and practitioners of astrology, do you prefer the term astrologist or astrologer?

然后看看会得到什么样的结果。

And decided to see what came up as a result of that.

所以结果非常明确。

So the results were pretty straightforward.

我做的一项调查是在推特上进行的，发布时间是2021年11月21日，内容是：占星术的学生和从业者，你个人更喜欢哪个称呼，astrologer 还是 astrologist？

So one of the polls that I did was on Twitter and I posted it 11/21/2021 and it said, Students and practitioners of astrology, which designation do you personally prefer, astrologer or astrologist?

当时有将近3000票，我只运行了一两天，可能最多几天，时间并不长。

And there were almost 3,000 votes and I only ran it for I think a day or two maybe or maybe a few days top, it wasn't super long.

但在3000票中，92.1%的人选择了 astrologer，只有7.9%的人选择了 astrologist。

But out of 3,000 votes, 92.1% voted for astrologer whereas only 7.9% voted for astrologist.

单就这个数据来看，92%对7.9%已经清楚地表明，至少关注我的推特账号或与这条推文互动的人群中，绝大多数是占星师、占星爱好者或占星学生。

That in of itself, if we're talking about like 92% versus eight percent, 7.9% of one shows you the vast majority of at least people that were following my Twitter account or interacted with that tweet who tend to be either astrologers or astrology enthusiasts or students of astrology.

他们压倒性地偏好某个特定称谓，十次中有九次都是如此。

They prefer a specific designation overwhelmingly nine times out of 10.

是的。

Mhmm.

当你把推特上的这个结果和你接下来要展示的其他调查相比时，会更加明显，因为推特的受众是最开放、最广泛的。

And it's even more striking when you think about the Twitter one actually compared to some of the other ones you're going to show being the most wide open to the public.

比如，你提到的是占星师和占星学习者，但没办法限制只有这些人回答。

Like technically you said astrologers and students of astrology, there's no way to limit it to that.

任何人都可以回答，任何捣乱的人也可以回答。

Anyone could answer it, anyone trolling could answer it.

所以我觉得其他的调查结果会更加极端。

And so I think you'll see the other ones are even more extreme.

是的。

Yeah.

其中一个调查是在从业者中进行的，区分了开放投票中可能包括的学生和只是喜欢占星、关注我或这个播客的人——他们可能才学了几个月，和那些已经实践了几十年的资深从业者。

Well, one of them is amongst practitioners that there was a breakdown between open polls that could be also students and just people that like astrology that follow me or follow the podcast that maybe have only been studying it for a few months versus hardcore practitioners who've been practicing it for decades.

这种对比更加明显。

There is a more striking breakdown.

但有些人只是开玩笑、玩闹，所以我们必须意识到，在开放投票中，有很多搞笑的答案和投票。

But some of the people were kind of joking and having fun with it and so that's one thing we have to be aware of for the open polls is just, you know, there were a lot of joke answers and votes sometimes.

这在准确性上可能不是特别精确。

This may not be super on the dot in terms of things.

但为了展示一些类似的数据，我在我的YouTube频道上做了一个类似的投票，那里有一个社区标签，可以发布图片和进行投票。

But to show some similar data, I ran a similar poll on my YouTube channel where there's a community tab where you can post images and run polls.

我在2021年11月再次发布了这个投票，这次获得了2500票，问题是：占星师和占星实践者，你更偏好哪个称呼？

And I posted this again in November 2021 and this poll got 2,500 votes and it said students and practitioners of astrology, which designation do you prefer?

在两千五百票中，89%的人表示更偏好“占星师”，11%的人选择“占星学家”。

And 89% of the two and a half thousand votes said that they preferred astrologer while 11% said astrologist.

所以，再次通过另一个公众平台——我的另一个社交媒体频道《占星播客》YouTube频道——向不仅包括实践者、也包括学生（本质上是占星爱好者）的群体进行调查，结果大致是90%的人偏好“占星师”，10%的人偏好“占星学家”。

So again, with another sort of public breakdown of people subscribing to one of my other social media pages which is The Astrology Podcast YouTube channel and addressing it to not just practitioners but also students which basically includes astrology enthusiasts, the breakdown is basically like 90% prefer astrologer and 10% astrologist.

没错。

Right.

对。

Right.

这一点本身就非常显著，因为比例几乎是1比9，也就是10%对90%。

And that's striking in its own right because it's one to nine basically, like 10%, 90%.

我再次认为，由于这是面向公众的开放投票，实际结果可能更偏向“占星师”，因为没有任何限制阻止那些

I again think since it was open to the public poll, it probably in actuality would be even more skewed towards astrologer because there is nothing stopping people who were

你是说偏向astrologist吗？

Towards astrologists, you mean?

是的。

Yeah.

astrologer和astrologist的比例是九比一。

Astrologer versus astrologist ninetyten.

但没有任何机制阻止任何随机的人参与投票，即使他们连爱好者都算不上。

But there's nothing stopping any random person from answering the poll even if they don't actually qualify under even enthusiasts.

所以我只是觉得实际比例会更极端，但即便如此，这里已经是大约九比一了。

So I just think it would be even more extreme, but even in its own right here, it's 90%, 10% approximately.

所以让我展示最后一个例子，以强调你提出的观点：即包含学生和仅知道太阳星座的爱好者与专业从业者之间的区别。

And so let me show the very last one in order to underline the point that you're bringing up here, which is the difference between a public poll that includes students and just enthusiasts of astrology who may only know their Sun sign versus practitioners.

因为我抽取的第三组数据来自一个私人Facebook群组，这个群组已经存在了将近十年，我负责管理这个面向专业占星师的群组。

Because the third group that I pulled was a private Facebook group that's been around for I think almost ten years now that I moderate for professional astrologers on Facebook.

我在2021年11月21日发布了这个投票，内容是‘占星从业者’。

I posted this poll on 11/21/2021 and it says practitioners of astrology.

所以这个只是专门针对从业者的。

So this is just dedicated to practitioners.

你更喜欢哪个称呼？

Which designation do you prefer?

有342人投票选择了“astrologer”，只有6人投票选择了“astrologist”。

And three forty two people voted for astrologer, where only six people voted for astrologist.

那这个比例是多少来着？

So what were the percentages on that again?

那是大约零点……抱歉，那是以前的数据。

That was about point No, sorry, that was the old one.

大约98.3%的人选择“astrologer”，只有1.7%的人选择“astrologist”。

That was about 98.3% for astrologer and just 1.7% for astrologist.

好的。

Okay.

所以对我来说这非常重要，因为在这里我们可能也看到了一个区别：真正的占星从业者、专业的占星师，和人们通常谈论占星师时所想到的人之间的区别——比如那些以此为生、或以此为主要职业或工作的人。

So that to me is super important because we may also be seeing a distinction here between what actual practitioners of astrology, actual professional astrologers and what people often think about when they're talking about astrologers, people that let's say make their living from that or where that's their primary profession or work or job.

绝大多数人，98%更喜欢使用‘占星师’这个术语，而‘占星学家’这一选项的比例则降至大约1%到2%。

Overwhelmingly, 98% prefer the term astrologer and the percentage for the other side for astrologists drops to like one or 2% basically.

嗯。

Mhmm.

没错。

Exactly.

这相当显著。

It's pretty striking.

我认为，如果你调查所有执业占星师，实际比例大致就在这个范围内。

And I think that is actually closer to what would be the case if you pulled all practicing astrologers, more or less in that range.

是的。

Yeah.

在我2014年的文章中，我基本上就是这么说的。

And in my 2014 article, that's basically what I said.

因为我说过，我估计大约99%的从业者会称自己为‘占星师’，这在一定程度上说明‘占星师’才是正确的称谓。

Because I said I would estimate that something like 99% of practitioners refer to themselves as astrologers, which arguably makes astrologer the correct designation.

所以，后来进行这项调查实际上在一定程度上支持了这一点，即关于实际从事占星术的人的情况。

And so actually doing this poll later kind of backs that up a bit in terms of actual practicing astrologers.

嗯。

Mhmm.

没错。

Right.

因此，这在数据方面非常重要，为我们提供了一些依据。

So that's really important in terms of the data and that gives us some data to go off of here.

还有其他类似的研究，仅通过频率就可以进行。

There's other research like that that you can do just in terms of frequency.

你可以查看一些谷歌统计数据。

You can do some of the Google stats.

如果你搜索术语‘astrologer’，看看会出现多少搜索结果，再与搜索‘astrologist’的结果对比，你会发现‘astrologer’这个术语在谷歌索引的文章数量上远远更多，而‘astrologist’的使用量则少得多。

If you Google the term astrologer and see how many search results come up versus if you Google the term astrologist, you'll see that the term astrologer is just like massively higher number of articles that have been indexed by Google versus a massively lower number in terms of volume of articles that use the term astrologist.

当然还有其他指标可以参考，但这些已经足以为我们提供一个大致的依据，作为这场讨论的基础。

So there's other metrics that you could look at, but this just gives us some sort of broad thing to go off of in terms of giving us a foundation for this discussion.

对。

Right.

而且不仅仅是我们在说，实际从业者很少使用‘astrologist’这个词，确实有一些数据可以支持这一点。

And it's not just us saying that people don't use astrologists who are actual practitioners, there is some data to back that up.

没错，当然。

Right, for sure.

好的。

All right.

既然这一点已经确立，统计数据清楚地表明，‘astrologer’这个词的使用频率远高于‘astrologist’。

So now that we have that established, the stats clearly show that the term astrologer is used far more frequently than the term astrologist.

这就引出了一个问题：究竟谁还在使用‘astrologist’这个词呢？因为我们偶尔都会看到。

This then raises the question of who's even using the term astrologist then to begin with because we've all seen this occasionally.

但问题是，为什么这个词仍然在使用？到底是谁在用‘astrologist’这个词？

But the question is then why is this still in use and who's actually using the term astrologist?

我们为什么根本需要讨论这个问题呢？

Why do we even need to have this discussion at all?

所以，根据我多年来——过去十年，或者说二十二年研究占星术的经验，作为一名执业占星师，我通常看到使用‘astrologist’这个词的人，都是那些并不了解情况、不知道绝大多数从业者更偏好使用‘astrologer’这一术语的人。

So what I've seen and the main conclusion that I've drawn over the years, over the past ten years or I guess twenty two years of studying astrology, as a practicing astrologer usually the only people that I typically see using the term astrologist are those who simply don't know any better and that don't know that the preferred term amongst the vast majority of practitioners is astrologer.

也就是说，‘astrologist’这个词通常是由那些对占星领域不够熟悉、甚至不知道‘astrologer’才是正确或首选称谓的人使用的。

So that is to say usually the term astrologist is used by people who are not very familiar with the field of astrology to such an extent that they don't even know what the correct or preferred designation for astrologer actually is.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这其实是个很明显的迹象。

It's a pretty big tell.

你知道，如果你是个占星师，身处占星圈子里，当有人说到‘astrologist’时，你立刻就会想：他们大概对这行一无所知，因为他们连占星师自己用的术语都不知道。

You know, if you're an astrologer and in the astrological community, if someone says astrologist, you sort of immediately go, They probably don't know anything about it because they're not even using the term that astrologers use.

是的。

Yeah.

在我2014年的文章中，我曾指出三个最常无意中使用‘astrologist’这个词的群体，他们由于对占星领域缺乏了解，最频繁地误用了这个术语。

Typically in my twenty fourteen article, identified three groups that we see this coming from, most frequently three groups that end up sort of accidentally using the term astrologist the most frequently due to their lack of familiarity with the field of astrology.

而这三类人，是唯一那些会相对经常地谈论占星、却缺乏足够认知来知道正确称谓应为‘astrologer’的人群。

And these are the only three groups of people who somewhat regularly find themselves in a position to be talking about astrology semi regularly without having enough familiarity with the subject to know that the proper designation is astrologer.

这三个群体分别是：第一，怀疑论者，即对占星术持怀疑态度或试图揭穿占星术的人。

And those three groups are one, skeptics, skeptics of astrology or debunkers of astrology.

第二，骗子，那些假装是专业占星师的人，但他们对这个领域并不熟悉，只是想骗钱。

Two, scammers, so people that are sort of pretending to be professional astrologers, but they're not very familiar with the field and they're just trying to rip people off.

第三，记者。

And then three, journalists.

也就是说，那些对占星术不了解的记者，不知为何被安排去写相关报道时，常常会无意中使用‘astrologist’这个词，以为这是主要称谓，却不知道这并不正确。

So people that are journalists that are not familiar with astrology, but for some reason find themselves in the position of having to write a story about it will often or at least frequently end up accidentally using the term astrologist thinking that that's the primary designation and not realizing that it's not.

嗯。

Mhmm.

没错。

Exactly.

这些群体的共同点是，他们都从外部视角谈论占星术，实际上对这个主题知之甚少。

And what all these groups share in common is that they're all talking about astrology from an outsider's perspective and they don't actually know very much about the subject.

正如我刚才提到的，这其实是一个明显的迹象，表明他们对这个领域并不了解。

As I was just mentioning, it's kind of a tell that they don't know about the subject.

所以这些就是主要的三类人。

So those are the three major groups that do.

我同意这一点。

I would agree with that.

是的。

Yeah.

当你想到这一点时，尤其是列表上的第一类，这有时很奇怪，因为怀疑论者经常试图批评占星术，但令人惊讶的是，他们对它的了解往往非常少。

And it's strange sometimes when you think about that, especially the first one on that list of course because skeptics, for example, frequently attempt to criticize astrology, although it's often surprising how little they know about it.

据我所见，他们常常有一种隐含的傲慢，认为既然他们‘知道’占星术是错的，就不需要去了解它就能驳斥它。

And from what I've seen, they often have this sort of implicit conceit that since they quote unquote know that astrology is wrong, they don't need to familiarize themselves with it in order to debunk it.

所以他们直接跳过，通常只是重复其他怀疑论者听来的论点，却没有真正深入研究过这个主题，也没有足够地去了解它。

So they just jump straight to usually repeating some arguments that they've heard from other skeptics without having much actual deep knowledge of the subject or not actually having looked into it enough.

而使用‘astrologist’这个词就是一个明显的迹象，表明这位怀疑论者实际上并没有研究过这个主题，因为如果他们研究过，就不会用这个词。

And this actually using the term astrologist is one of the dead giveaways that a skeptic hasn't actually studied the subject because they would know better than to use the term astrologist if they had.

对。

Right.

这有点讽刺，因为怀疑论者常常以为自己对占星术的了解比实际更多。

Which is kind of funny because skeptics often think that they know more than they do about astrology.

我的意思是，是的，有时他们觉得根本不需要了解它，因为占星术显然很愚蠢、很荒谬。

I mean, yes, sometimes they think they just don't need to know about it because it's obviously dumb and wrong.

但另一些人则以为自己对它的批评更有道理，而实际上他们根本没有深入研究过。

But others think they actually have better points about it than they do because they haven't actually studied it.

因此，使用'astrologist'这个词恰恰符合这种心态。

And so using the term astrologist kind of is in keeping with that.

偶尔他们故意这么说就是为了惹人厌，毕竟许多怀疑论者根本不在乎是否礼貌，也不在乎使用占星师群体内部的术语。

Occasionally they can just say it more purposely to be annoying because of course many skeptics are not particularly concerned with being polite or using insider language to astrologers.

是的。

Yeah.

大多数时候，他们使用'astrologist'这个词并非故意，只是因为不熟悉而误用；但偶尔确实有人近乎刻意地用这个词来挑衅，或者带有贬义——我认为这是因为有些人知道这不是正确的称呼，却偏偏想故意表现得无礼，明知故犯。

It's like most of the time when they use the term astrologist, they're doing so not deliberately and just accidentally due to lack of familiarity, but there is an occasional almost attempt to be annoying or like a pejorative use of the term I think because some may recognize at a certain point that it's not the preferred term, but just kind of want to be jerks about it knowing that it's not the correct designation.

但我认为，即使是这种行为，也只占怀疑论者中相对较小的一部分。

But I think even that is actually a relatively small percentage of skeptics.

我认为大多数时候他们根本没意识到这一点，因为他们违背了对我来说一直很重要的一个核心原则。

I think most of the time they just really don't realize it because they're sort of violating this primary core thing that's always been important to me.

前几天我发了一条关于这个的推文，没想到居然这么受欢迎，我只是说：跟我重复一遍，我对这个话题不太熟悉，所以没有强烈的意见。

I did a tweet about it the other day and I was surprised at how popular it was, but I just said, repeat after me, I'm not very familiar with that topic so I don't have a strong opinion about it.

这一直是一个非常有用的原则。

And that's always been a really useful thing.

有时候我得提醒自己这一点，因为它是一个很好的指导原则，我认为这是我们所有人作为人类都面临的挑战，尤其是在当今世界，面对如此多的媒体和信息来源，我们有时难以分辨哪些是可靠的信息源，哪些不是。

Sometimes I have to remind myself of that because it's a good guiding thing and I think it's something we all struggle with as humans, especially in the modern world with so many different media sources and different sources of information and the sort of loss of inability to know sometimes what's a reliable source of information versus what's not.

最终，由于我们不可能成为每个领域的专家，因此在某种程度上，我们不得不依赖那些我们认为有权威的人，来帮助我们建立那些我们自己无法独立研究的知识。

And ultimately, because we all cannot become experts in every field to some extent, we end up relying on people that we view as authoritative to some extent in order to help us establish things that we can't otherwise research on our own.

在某种程度上，这变成了一种类似信仰的东西。

And it becomes a little bit of a matter of faith or something to a certain extent.

但话又说回来，对于自己不太熟悉的事情，不轻易形成过于强烈的意见，这通常是一个很好的做法。

But that being said, it's generally a good practice not to develop super strong opinions about things that you're not super familiar with.

而这就是我对现代怀疑论运动的一个看法：它常常看起来并不遵循这一原则，这些人没有意识到，他们其实是在没有深入研究或了解的情况下，把某些事情当作信仰来接受，虽然我理解这种冲动，也明白为什么有些人会这么做——因为我们所有人某种程度上都会这样做，比如一看到某些事情显得荒谬、不可能，就直接否定，而不去深入探究。

And this is one of the issues I have with the modern sceptic movement is it often seems that they don't follow that and they don't realize how much they're taking certain things as a matter of faith without having studied or looked into them first, which while I understand the impulse and why some of them do that since we all do that to a certain extent like dismiss things that just seem crazy or just seem implausible or just not possible out of hand without looking into them much first.

有时候，你可以在一定程度上蒙混过关，但如果你一直这样凭数量取胜，总会有那么一次，你因为没有去查看或了解就轻易否定了某件事，结果却是错的。

It's like you can get away with that to a certain extent sometimes, but just by a sheer numbers game, you're doing that constantly, there's going to be some time that you might be wrong about something having dismissed it without actually looking into it or understanding it at all first.

这就是其中一个潜在的危险领域，或者说是怀疑论者可能正在这样做的一种迹象——他们使用‘astrologist’而不是‘astrologer’这个词。

And this is one of those areas where that's a potential danger or potential indication that a sceptic may be doing that by using the term astrologist rather than astrologer.

是的，我同意。

Yeah, I agree.

我的意思是，这或许并不完全令人惊讶，但当人们自称是怀疑论者时，有时这其实是个误称。

I mean, and it's not I guess totally surprising, but it can be a little bit of a misnomer sometimes when people sort of call themselves sceptics.

它通常意味着‘驳斥者’。

It often means debunkers.

它并不一定代表怀疑主义，也不代表这个词最崇高的用法——即运用理性、仔细思考证据并自己做出判断。

It's not necessarily like scepticism and the noblest use of the term in terms of using rationality and thinking carefully about evidence and deciding for yourself.

它往往不是关于这些的。

It's often not about that.

它通常只是说：我知道这很蠢。

It's often about like, I know this is dumb.

所有超出已知机械论范畴的事物都不可能存在。

And everything that is outside of known mechanistic terms can't exist.

因此，使用这个词的人往往根本没有深入研究过，所以也不了解这个词。

And so that's often who is using this term is people who haven't actually investigated it, therefore don't know the word.

是的。

Yeah.

我最近看到有人也这么做过。

I saw somebody else do this recently.

那是对那条推文的回应，但他们只是说：这并不是诉诸权威，因为那并不是完整的谬误，但其中确实包含了一部分，即他们相信：如果这件事是正当的，它早就已经被科学界认可了；因此，既然我认为它没有被科学界认可，他们就得出结论：这根本毫无价值，不值得去研究，甚至不值得去了解 enough 来知道从事或相信这一领域的人的正确称谓是什么。

Was a response to that tweet, but they were just like, Well, it's not an appeal to authority because that's not the actual full fallacy, but that is part of it which is that they're putting faith in that if this was legitimate, it would have been legitimized already scientifically and therefore the fact that I don't think it has been legitimized scientifically, they then conclude therefore there's nothing to it and it's not worth looking into and it's not worth even knowing enough about it to know what the correct designation is for people that do practice or believe in that topic.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，总之，这是一整个问题。

So anyway, that's a whole thing.

这是怀疑论者的一个标志。

It's a tell for skeptics.

怀疑论者是最常这么做的一群人，但这显然是一个明显的信号。

Skeptics are one of the groups that do it the most, but it's a dead giveaway.

我们来谈谈第二类人，也就是骗子。

Let's talk about our second group which is scammers.

这一类稍微复杂一点，因为在像我们这样的边缘领域中，什么是骗子、谁才算骗子，这在一定程度上是主观的判断。

This one's a little bit more tricky because of course, it can be a somewhat subjective designation in terms of what is a scammer, who qualifies as a scammer in a field such as ours which is to a certain extent a fringe field.

但我想，在这个领域的从业者当中，作为外人要知道的一点是，不同的占星师有不同的伦理准则，对于什么是适当和不适当的行为，有不同的伦理标准。

But I think among practitioners within this field, one of the things to know as an outsider is different astrologers do have ethical guidelines and there's different sets of ethics for what is appropriate versus inappropriate practice.

作为从业者，有些事情你一眼就能看出来，比如一个人学习占星有多久了？

There's some things that you can just sort of tell as a practitioner like for example, how long has a person been studying astrology?

他们的收费相对于其技能水平或学习该主题的时间来说是多少？还有其他类似的因素。

How much are they charging relative to their level of skill or length of study of that topic and different things like that.

有时候，有些人可能只学了一个月或两个月占星术，就开始收取巨额费用，但他们提供的服务根本配不上他们所收的价钱，或者根本没在真正使用占星术，也不够熟练，只是想骗钱。

And sometimes there can be certain types of people that have just learned astrology like within the past month or two and then are charging like an exorbitant amount of money and probably not offering a service that is what a tent amount or is equivalent to what they're charging or perhaps are not actually using astrology and are not very proficient in it, but they're just like trying to say things to rip somebody off.

虽然我认为怀疑论者高估了占星领域中这种现象发生的频率——同样是因为缺乏了解，他们认为所有占星师都在骗人。

And while I think skeptics overstate the frequency with which astrologers that this happens in the field of astrology, again due to lack of familiarity, they think all astrologers are just ripping people off.

事实上，如果你熟悉这个领域，就会意识到绝大多数从业者都是诚实且敬业的人，他们努力以最合乎道德和有效的方式应用这一学科。

In reality, if you become familiar with the field, you realize that the vast majority of practitioners are pretty honest, pretty dedicated people that are trying to do their best to apply this subject as ethically and effectively as they can.

实际上，这个领域中可能涉及不道德、滥用或某些可疑行为的人只占极小比例。

And it's actually a very small percentage of people in the field that might fall under the general area of doing something that's unethical or abusive or kind of sketchy in some way.

但正是在这个方面，我经常看到‘astrologist’这个词被使用；如果一个从业者称自己为‘astrologist’，这通常是一个信号，表明他们可能并不熟悉这个领域，因为他们并没有使用绝大多数从业者所采用的称呼。

But this is one of the areas that I do see the term astrologist come up that if a person who's a practitioner is calling themselves an astrologist, usually this is a tell or a giveaway that maybe they're not as familiar with the field because they're not actually calling themselves what 99% of practitioners do.

如果他们不使用这个称呼，有时这可能表明他们对这个主题并不熟悉，这是一个不好的迹象。

And if they're not, then sometimes that can be an indication that they're not very familiar with the subject, is not a good indication.

没错。

Right.

在这个类别中，有些人完全不使用占星术，有些人只懂一点，就像你所说的，或者有些人懂一点但还没接触到现有的社群；在互联网时代，这意味着他们还没走多远，因为如今在网上找到真正的占星师非常非常容易。

So under this category, it can be people just completely not using astrology or it can be people who know just a little like you were saying, or people who know just a little and haven't even reached the community that exists, which in the internet age means that they haven't gotten very far because it's very, very easy to find real astrologers these days online.

所以，是的，你有那些骗子。

So, yeah, I mean, you have the scammers.

最近Instagram上出现了大量账号被盗事件，这通常是人们发现他们的途径。

There's been a raft of Instagram thefts of accounts lately and that's usually the way people know.

我的意思是，当事人当然知道账号被偷了，但任何懂占星的旁观者都会注意到用词很奇怪，因为这个人根本不是占星师。

I mean, obviously the person themselves know that it was stolen, but anyone else watching who knows astrology, there'll often be weird language that's being used because the person isn't actually an astrologer.

所以他们试图冒用真正的占星师账号，说：‘亲爱的，您好。’

So they're trying to use this real astrologer's account and say, Hello, beloved.

我是一位著名的占星师。

I am a famous astrologist.

是的。

Right.

类似这样的说法。

Stuff like that.

他们用‘大师级占星师’这种说法，因为这种术语听起来很崇高、很夸张。

Master astrologist very because it sounds vaulted terminology, exalted terminology that they're using.

就像‘大师’和‘占星师’连用，这种表达方式在听觉上有一种特定的怪异感。

It's like a master and an astrologist because that somehow strikes the ear in a specific way.

或者有时候只说‘专业占星师’，这种说法会让大多数从业者觉得别扭，忍不住皱眉。

Or sometimes just saying professional astrologist, that does hit the ears of most practitioners in a weird way and makes you raise an eyebrow.

如果同一个人接着说，‘给我一万美元，我就帮你解除所有负面咒语或所有加诸在你身上的诅咒’，那显然他们根本不是在做占星，而是在勒索钱财，这不好。

And then if that same person is then like, send me $10,000 and I will lift all negative spells or something that have been all curses that have been cast on you, then it's like they're not doing astrology and they're trying to extort people from money and that's not good.

嗯。

Mhmm.

没错。

Exactly.

所以这是另一个迹象，如果他们试图冒充真正的占星师，就可能是在做这种事。

So that is another one where it's a tell where they could be trying to do that if they're trying to impersonate an actual astrologer.

对。

Right.

好的。

All right.

我们稍后会再回到这个话题，因为确实存在一些例外情况。

We'll come back around to that because there are some exceptions.

在人们停止观看或收听这个视频并跑去留下愤怒评论之前，我们要回头谈谈一些例外情况：确实有一些合法的专业占星师会使用‘占星学家’这个术语，尽管他们属于极少数，但这也是可以接受的。

And so before people stop watching or listening to this video and go and leave an angry comment, we are going to come back to and talk about some exceptions where there are some legitimate professional astrologers that do use the term astrologist even though they're far outside of the majority and that's okay.

这次讨论主要针对的是社区外部的人群，目的是让他们了解首选的称谓是什么、为什么这样选择，以及这种术语背后存在哪些问题。

This discussion is primarily being directed at people that are outside of the community and letting them know what the preferred designation is and why and what some of the issues are with this whole terminology.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们稍后再回到这个话题。

So we'll come back around to that.

我们来谈谈第三类人群。

Let's touch on our third group.

我注意到，第三类经常使用‘astrologist’这个词的人群是记者，当占星术因某种原因登上新闻时，他们不得不报道，通常都是一些怪异离奇的故事。

The third group that I noticed that consistently where the term astrologist comes up is journalists who will occasionally write a story about astrology when it comes up in the news for some reason, they're forced to cover it, is usually some kind of bizarre quirky story.

有趣的是，近年来，占星术在媒体上的报道频率越来越高，因为自2018年左右以来，它变得越来越流行。

I mean, increasingly, interestingly in the past few years, astrology has been covered more and more frequently in the media because it's become so much more popular since 2018 or so.

但在那之前，占星术在新闻中出现的频率要低得多，通常只是因为一些奇特古怪的原因。

But definitely before that time period, it was coming up much less frequently and was much more just for quirky weird reasons.

新闻对占星术的报道往往聚焦于耸人听闻的故事。

News coverage of astrology tends to focus on sensationalist stories.

不知为何，故事越耸人听闻，使用‘astrologist’这个词的可能性似乎就越大。

For some reason, the more sensationalist the story is, it seems like almost the more likely the term astrologist will be used.

记者们常常误解并歪曲占星师使用的某些专业术语和概念，这不仅仅涉及职业称谓问题。

Journalists often end up misunderstanding and mangling some of the technical terms and concepts that astrologers use even outside of just a professional designation.

有时候，‘astrologist’这个词反而是最不让人烦恼的问题。

Sometimes the word astrologist is the least annoying issue.

这似乎也是科学家们在报道科学新闻时，对类似问题所抱怨的内容。

And this seems like something that even scientists complain about in terms of similar issues when it comes to science reporting in the news and media.

因此，关于这个话题，媒体中可能存在某种相似的深层问题。

So there may be some similar underlying issue when it comes to the media with this topic.

我的意思是，我认为这与记者实际去寻求的背景信息量有很大关系，他们被分配到的撰写报道的时间可能非常有限，毕竟这种话题通常不被视为严肃内容。

I mean, I think it has a lot to do with, you know, the level of background information that the reporter actually tries to seek out, amount of time they're actually given to file a story which is probably not very much if it's on this kind of just not considered serious topic.

但这很有趣。

But it's interesting.

我觉得奇怪的是，这种情况一直发生，因为他们完全可以去咨询占星师并了解真相。

One, I think it's weird that that keeps happening because they can just talk to astrologers and find out.

我觉得，如果他们真的去采访占星师，总会有人这么说：‘我是个占星师，这意味着……’

I would think that if they actually talk to astrologers, someone would say, So I'm an astrologer and that means blah, blah, blah.

这么多新闻报道、评论文章或大众兴趣类文章都一致使用‘astrologist’这个词，这真的很奇怪。

It's really odd that this many news stories come out or like op eds or whatever, general interest stories come out and they consistently say astrologist.

我认为，不仅过去几年对这个话题的报道增多，一些文章的报道质量也有所提升。

I think there have been not just with the greater coverage in the last couple of years but actually better reporting in some of the articles over the last few years.

有些文章已经用对了，但绝大多数仍然在使用‘astrologists’这个词。

So some of them have gotten it right, but the vast majority just still say astrologists.

我不明白为什么，因为他们明明会去采访人。

I don't understand why because they talk to people.

显然他们引用了原话。

Clearly have quotes.

我看到了他们采访中的直接引语。

I see the quotes from their interviews.

总之。

So anyway.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，过去几年里，随着占星师越来越受欢迎，越来越多的年轻人进入这一领域，公众对占星作为一种社会现象和职业领域的认知也显著提升。

I mean, has been interesting in the past years as astrologers become more popular and there's become an influx of younger people getting into the field as well as greater public awareness of astrology as a phenomenon that exists in society as well as a professional field.

报道质量有所提高，我们看到越来越多的新闻报道中，记者们会花时间采访真正有信誉的占星师，尽可能在有限的时间内理解这一主题。

There has been a better and we have seen a lot more news stories where the journalists will take their time to interview actual reputable astrologers and try to understand the topic a bit as much as they can given their limited amount of time.

但我认为，这与怀疑论者之间有一个共同点：大多数民意调查通常显示，只有大约25%的美国人相信占星是一种合法的现象——虽然我不确定现在的具体数字，但几年前的数据一直稳定在这个水平，也就是说，只有四分之一的人口相信。

But I think the commonality between this and the skeptics is again, of the major polls that have been done usually indicate that only something like I don't know what the case is today, but several years back, the polls were relatively consistently showing that it was only something like 25% of people in The US believed unquote in astrology as a legitimate phenomenon, which meant that was only like a quarter of society.

因此，还有整整75%的人口由于宗教或科学等原因，不认为占星是一种合法的现象。

So there's a whole 75% of society that didn't believe astrology was a legitimate phenomenon for one reason or another either due to religious or scientific reasons.

我认为，经常报道占星的记者和怀疑论者之间的共同点，就在于他们普遍假设这是一个荒谬可笑、不值得认真研究的话题，因为他们并不像报道总统或采访总统那样，需要撰写重大新闻，也不会因此赢得普利策奖之类的重要荣誉。

And I think the commonality between the journalists oftentimes that are covering astrology and the skeptics is just the presumption that this is a stupid blow off topic that they don't have to actually research or look into very seriously because it's not like they're writing a story about the president or interviewing the president or something like that or doing some other major, let's say, news piece that they would consider they'd have to be more careful about because they might win like a Pulitzer Prize for it or something like that.

他们只是在处理社会中一个古怪的边缘群体，觉得没必要认真对待。

But rather, they're just dealing with an oddball fringe group in society and they don't need to treat it seriously.

因此，这种态度导致的一个结果就是使用“astrologist”这个错误术语，这在很大程度上反映了媒体对占星普遍持有的轻蔑态度。

So sometimes one of the things that happens as a result of that is the use of the term astrologist and that's sort of just an indication of the general dismissiveness of oftentimes the press towards astrology in general.

对。

Right.

我也觉得存在一种反馈循环：新闻报道在标题或正文中越多使用‘astrologist’这个词，普通人就越会认为这是个正式术语，因为他们经常看到。

I also think there's a little bit of a feedback loop where the more that news stories use astrologists in the title or in the story itself, more general people think that it's a term because they've seen it.

也许这正是他们对这一话题的唯一接触，他们并没有真正去研究或学习占星术，只是偶尔在标题里看到，于是就以为这就是正确的术语。

And maybe that's their only exposure to the topic, it's not like they're actually looking into astrology or trying to learn it and so they just see it in a headline occasionally and then they're like, Oh, that's what the term is.

所以我认为，随着时间推移，这种情况会自我强化。

So I think that can like feedback on itself a little bit over time.

是的， definitely。

Yeah, for sure.

这在媒体层面是个问题：当越来越多的媒体报道，或者那些试图以科学角度批判占星术的文章使用‘astrologist’这个词时，即使在占星界内部普遍认为这个词并不准确，但外部却可能因此误以为它是个正当术语。

And that's an issue in terms of the media and the more media articles it comes up with or the more sceptic articles that write about astrology if you look into a quasi what's supposed to be like a scientific take on astrology if you're trying to validate it like that, that use the term that may legitimize it externally or appear to even though if you're looking within the community, it's pretty consistently not the correct term to use.

是的，我本来想说点别的，但现在把要点忘了。

Yeah, I was going to say something but I'm losing the point.

但我想，在我之前的文章中，最终得出的结论是：在这些情况下，一个人如果使用‘astrologist’这个词，就是他并不熟悉占星术的明显标志。

But I guess at this point in my previous article, just concluded that what we're getting at here is that in each of these instances, one of the dead giveaways is that a person isn't very familiar with astrology is when they use the term astrologist.

所以我再重申一下，虽然从语法上来说，用“astrologist”这个词本身并没有错，但这个词往往会让你显得对这个领域不太熟悉。

So while again, just to reiterate, technically it is not grammatically wrong to use the term astrologist, it does have a tendency to make you look like someone who is not very familiar with the subject.

这一点非常重要，无论是占星学界内部还是圈外的人都要牢记。

That's something really important to keep in mind both within the community as well as outside of the community.

完全没错。

Absolutely.

比如，如果你想让自己的话被认真对待——至少在你报道占星相关内容，甚至是想要驳斥占星学时，都要使用这个领域内真正通用的术语；而如果你刚成为一名占星师，在给自己做宣传推广的时候，也可以留意一下自己使用的称谓是否规范。

Like if you want to be taken seriously at the very least if you're reporting on it or something or even if you're trying to debunk it, know, use the terms that actually exist in the community as well as if you're starting out as an astrologer, you might consider that in terms of the terms that you use in advertising yourself.

对。

Yeah.

我刚想起我本来要聊的点了，就是你刚才提到情况有了些变化，毕竟我八年前就读过那篇文章了。

I just remembered the point that I want to talk about at this point is when you mentioned how things have changed a little bit because it's like I read that article eight years ago.

我觉得过去十年里，有一个变化对整个局面影响很大：脸书早在十多年前就推出了一项功能，允许用户在个人主页或者商家主页的职业信息栏里选择身份标签。

One of the things that has changed and influenced things quite a bit I think over the past decade is that Facebook has had the ability to on your private Facebook profile or on a business page, the ability to select an occupation as a designation for at least a decade now.

而大概从十年前开始，这个选项里一直写的是“astrologist（占星学家）”，而不是正确的“astrologer（占星师）”，这都把正经占星师们烦了快十年了——如果你想在脸书上把职业设为占星相关，就只能把自己标成astrologist，这真的超烦人，因为这不是业内认可的正确称谓，可你根本没得选。

And going back probably a decade, they've always had it set as astrologist rather than astrologer, which has consistently driven astrologers crazy for about a decade now that if you want to select astrology as your occupation on Facebook, you have to label yourself as an astrologist which is super annoying because that's not the preferred designation and you sort of don't have a choice.

因此，作为结果，Instagram——几年前被Facebook收购，本质上属于Facebook——也将“占星师”设为唯一选项，如果你想表明自己是占星实践者，就必须称自己为astrologist。

And then as a result of that, Instagram which was bought by Facebook years ago and so is basically owned by Facebook also has that selected as if you want to indicate you're a practitioner of astrology, then you have to call yourself an astrologist.

这是唯一的选项，没有任何补救办法。

And that's the only option and there's no recourse.

所以我认为，过去十年里，这确实对情况产生了影响，尤其是对于非实践者、占星爱好者，或那些对占星只有浅薄了解的人而言，他们更频繁地看到这个术语，有时甚至误以为这才是被推崇的称谓。

So I think that's actually influenced things over the course of the past decade because I think especially amongst non practitioners or enthusiasts of astrology or people that only have a passing familiarity with astrology, that's caused them to see it more frequently and to sometimes perhaps assume that that's actually the preferred designation.

我怀疑，这正是我在一些普通社交媒体投票中发现，有高达10%的人——大约9%到10%的受访者——认为“astrologist”是更偏好或更正确的称谓的原因。

And I suspect actually that that's the reason why in some of those just general social media polls that I did that it's as high as 10%, it's like 9% or 10% or it's as high as it was in terms of nine or 10% of respondents saying that astrologist is the preferred or thinking that it's the correct designation.

我认为，这可能是因为一些社交媒体公司无意中

I think it may be because some of those social media companies are accidentally

在正常化这种说法。

Like normalizing.

是的，就是在正常化这种术语。

Yeah, like normalizing that terminology.

不幸的是，这正是我们制作这档播客的契机：就在今年十一月，也就是几个月前，Twitter整合了在个人主页上标注职业的功能。

And unfortunately, that's actually the occasion for us doing this podcast is back in November, like a few months ago, Twitter integrated the ability to indicate a professional occupation, I believe on your Twitter page.

但遗憾的是，我觉得他们大概率只是照搬了脸书或Instagram的做法，把职业头衔设成了“astrologist（占星学家）”而非“astrologer（占星师）”。

But they unfortunately, I think probably just copied or followed Facebook or Instagram and set the designation as astrologist rather than astrologer.

这真的超级让人恼火，因为这会形成一个恶性循环：它会把这个并非从业者首选的称呼给普及开来，我觉得推特本该把这件事做对的。

And that was super, super annoying because again, I think that then is going to become like a feedback loop where it's going to normalize something that's not otherwise the preferred designation among practitioners, I think Twitter should do a better job of getting that right.

既然脸书已经是个庞大的体量，我们没法说服它改主意，那或许推特刚推出这个功能不久，要是有足够多的人就这件事提出诉求，它就能采取措施修正这个问题，给占星从业者设置正确、也符合大家偏好的职业头衔。

And maybe if we can't change Facebook's mind because it's like a monolith, perhaps Twitter if enough people sort of spoke up about this would since this was instituted recently, take some measures in order to fix it and have the correct or the preferred professional designation for practitioners of astrology.

这就是我们制作这期节目的原因之一，其实几个月前我就一直想做这期内容了。

So that's one of the reasons we're actually doing this entire episode and I've been meaning to for a few months now.

我希望——虽然我不知道具体该怎么做——但希望占星师们能开始向推特反馈这个问题，比如联系推特客服、给他们发邮件之类的，把这件事提出来。因为我觉得如果有足够多的人一起做这件事，我们就能改变这个设置。

And I'm hoping that I don't know how, but hopefully astrologers can start raising this with Twitter or tagging Twitter support or emailing them or something in order to raise this issue because I do feel like if enough of us did that we could change it.

这就是开展这场讨论的意义，也是最核心的目的。

And I think that's the point, really the primary point of having this discussion.

对，说得没错。

Yeah, exactly.

就是把这件事告诉那些原本完全不了解这个情况的人。

Just to get that word out to people who maybe don't have any idea otherwise.

而且，为了在个人资料或任何公开场合标注自己的职业，却不得不使用错误的称谓，这确实很令人烦恼。

And because it's pretty annoying to have to mislabel your own profession in order to put a professional label on your account anywhere or anywhere publicly.

所以，是的，我的猜测是他们根本不知道。

So yeah, I mean, I I would guess they just don't know.

希望这次讨论，以及其他人也提出这个问题，能让他们更好地了解情况。

So hopefully this and maybe other people raising the issue can inform them better.

是的。

Yeah.

多年来，人们曾多次尝试向Facebook反映这个问题，但始终没有结果。

And there have been attempts with Facebook for years, but it's never gone anywhere.

虽然我对Facebook已经不抱希望了，但我对Twitter还抱有一丝期待，我想扭转这个趋势，让方向朝着正确的方向发展，因为如果一些大公司开始使用正确的称谓，或许能帮助我们避免继续误入歧途。

While I've kind of given up hope on Facebook, I have some hope for Twitter and I'd like to turn the tides on this and start putting it in the other direction because if some major companies started using the correct designation, that may help in terms of not making us clear cut going the wrong direction.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

如果有人对此有任何想法或见解，请告诉我们，或者在本视频下方的YouTube评论区留下建议，希望我们能推动一些改变。

And if anyone has any ideas about that or has any insight context, please let us know or any suggestions drop them in the comments section below this video on YouTube and hopefully we can get something going.

好的。

All right.

我们的目标是澄清并提高人们对首选称谓的认识。

Our hope is to clarify and spread awareness about the preferred designation.

话虽如此，我们仍需讨论并重要的是，确实有一些占比较小的占星师会使用或自称‘astrologist’这个词。

That being said, we do need to talk about and it's important to talk about that there are some astrologers even if it's a smaller percentage who do use or do refer to themselves using the word astrologist.

对。

Right.

虽然大多数时候，当人们使用‘astrologist’这个词时，指的是我们刚才讨论的那些情况，但并非100%如此。

While most of the time if people are using the word astrologist, it means some of the various things we just discussed, It doesn't 100% of the time.

因此，这是最小的一部分人，他们作为占星师，出于某种原因更喜欢‘astrologist’这个标签。

And so this is the smallest percent where people who are actually astrologers for whatever reason decide they like the label of astrologist better.

有时候是那些还不了解情况的新手，有时候只是为了在人群中脱颖而出。

Sometimes it's with new people who don't know any better yet, and sometimes it can just be to stand out from the field.

是的，这两种情况都有。

Yeah, those are the two.

我最常见的就是新入行的人，比如刚接触占星几个月或第一年的人。

And I see it most often with newer people, people like that are within either their first few months or their first year of studying astrology.

他们对这个领域充满热情。

They're excited about it.

有些人学得非常快，有时甚至太快了，以至于他们还没准备好就开始提供咨询，或在学习初期就自称占星从业者。

There are some people who move into it really quickly and sometimes a little too quickly so that they get ahead of themselves and maybe start offering consultations or start referring to themselves as a practitioner of astrology relatively early in their studies.

有时候这没什么问题，但有时候这也表明他们进展过快，可能不太妥当。

And it's like sometimes that's okay and sometimes that's an indication of something that's not good or maybe they're moving too quickly.

但其中一个迹象表明他们还处于学习初期，就是他们自称‘astrologist’，这通常说明他们不如那些已经实践了十年的人那么深入。

But one of the tells of that that they're relatively early in their studies is if they are calling themselves an astrologist, it's usually an indication that they're not as advanced in the subject as somebody that's been practicing for like ten years or something.

因为如果你已经实践了十年，自称‘astrologist’的人数会大幅下降，正如一些调查所显示的那样，比例降至2%或更低。

Because if you've been practicing for like ten years, the number of people calling themselves an astrologist drops pretty dramatically as we've seen in some of the polls to like 2% or less.