以占星术进行激进的自我关怀，由戴安娜·罗斯·哈珀主讲

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这样表达会非常有帮助：如果在这个方面，命运的牌并没有对我不利，而我又希望在世界上产生积极影响，那么这很可能就是我可以利用的工具，来实现积极影响，或者活出我的出生图所承诺的使命，无论你怎么表述它。

And I think having it put that way can be really helpful of then being like, okay, if the cards aren't stacked against me in this area, if I want to do the work of being positively influential in the world, then this is probably an area that I can lean into as a toolset for being a positive influence or living out my birth chart promise, however you want to put it.

是的。

Yeah.

此外，这也拓展了‘特权’的含义——它不仅仅局限于种族背景，或者人们常认为的纯粹种族语境，它也可以像你提到的那样，包括美貌或吸引力。

Well, it also expanded the scope of what privilege means that it's not just something that sometimes it's placed in a purely, or at least people perceive it as being placed in a purely racial context or something like that, but it can also be things like you mentioned beauty or attractiveness.

我们还提到了财富，甚至可以逐一探讨黄道十二宫的每一个宫位，讨论一个人在生命不同领域可能经历或享有的特权——假设他们的出生图中某部分位置良好，意味着在这些领域，命运的牌并没有对他们不利，而且这种优势未必源于他们主动刻意培养，即使他们后来确实选择了去发展它。

We've also mentioned wealth even coming from We could go through basically all 12 of the houses and talk about different ways that a person might experience or be privileged in different areas of their life if that part of their chart, let's say hypothetically is well situated as an area where broadly speaking the cards might not be stacked against them and it might not necessarily be due to something that they deliberately had to cultivate on their own even if they did choose to at some point.

是的，我真的很喜欢这个观点。

Yeah, I actually really love that idea.

你想快速地聊聊这个吗？

Do you want to do that really quickly?

我的意思是，它。

Mean, it.

我的意思是，非常简短。

Mean, super quick.

第一宫，我们先从第一宫开始，它代表身体和心灵。

The first house, let's let's start with the first house as the body as well as the mind.

在我的书中，我引用了希腊占星术中偶尔提到的一个经典指标：金星落在第一宫，不知为何会显得异常有吸引力、身材匀称或美丽，无论你怎么定义美，不同的人如果第一宫位置良好，可能会有这种特质。

And in my book, one of the classical indicators I took from Hellenistic astrology that they would mention occasionally was just having Venus in the first house and for whatever reason appearing to be abnormally attractive, let's say, or well proportioned or beautiful, whatever you define beauty as, different people perhaps having that if they have the first house well placed for some reason.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

然后是第二宫，这会带我们谈到财富和丰富的资源。

And then for the second house, that would bring us to those things like wealth, having abundant resources.

就像你举的例子，木星在第二宫位置良好，就不会在财务方面遇到困难，而没有困难可能意味着很多种情况。

Like the example that you gave of Jupiter well placed in the second and not having difficulties with financial matters, Which not having difficulties can mean any number of things.

它可能意味着银行账户里有一亿美元之类的。

It can mean having a $100,000,000 in the bank account or something.

它也可能只是意味着当你需要钱时，钱就会适时出现，对吧？

It can also just mean whenever you need money, it appears when you need it, right?

对。

Right.

也许你并没有过着奢侈的生活，但你也永远不会一贫如洗。

Maybe you're not living high on the hog, but you are never completely destitute.

我想快速回到第一宫，因为我可不想跳过这一点——关于能力歧视的概念，因为第一宫也与身体有关。

And I wanted to go back really quick to the first house because I don't want to skip that I could easily skip over is ideas of ableism because the first house also has to do with the physical body.

有时，如果第一宫存在一些问题或具有挑战性的星象指示，情况可能恰恰相反。

Sometimes if there's problems connected to it in terms of the first house or challenging indications, there can be the opposite.

可能会在身体、行动能力或身体健康方面遇到困难，这样说你能理解吧。

There could be challenges in terms of one's physical body or physical mobility or physical health, if that makes sense.

是的。

Yeah.

我们先来个正面的吗？

Should we do a positive?

再来说负面的。

And negative.

先说正面的。

Positive first.

你打算怎么进行？

How do you want to do it?

也许我们可以每讨论一个宫时，同时讲它的正面和负面含义，这样人们就不会疑惑：等等，你们怎么又讲起第一宫了？

Maybe let's do both a positive and a negative for each house as we go around so that way people aren't like, Wait, why are you talking about the first house again?

我以为我们已经讲过第一宫了。

I thought we already talked about the first house.

是的。

Yeah.

你对第一宫还有什么补充吗？或者你想到其他内容了吗？还是就这样了？

Do you have anything else about the first or any that come to mind for you or is that good?

哦，我觉得对于第一宫来说，有时相关的是你在世界上移动时的安全感，对吧？

Oh, one thing I think that might be sometimes relevant for the first house is your sense of safety as you move through the world, right?

如果你在身体存在感和身体形态上感到强大，那么你在世界上行走时可能不会那么害怕或紧张，这类感受是一种特权，让你觉得可以随意出门而安然无恙。

If you feel strong in your physical presence and your physical form, then as you move through the world, you might not have as much fear or apprehension, things of that nature which is a privilege to be able to feel like you can just go out and be fine.

当然。

Sure.

是的， definitely。

Yeah, definitely.

这可以与许多不同的重叠类别联系起来。

And that can be connected to a bunch of different overlapping categories.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

那么对于第二宫，我们稍微谈到了财务上的轻松、没有财务压力，用更好的词来说就是缺乏财务困难。

So then with the second house, we talked a little bit about financial ease, financial undifficulty, lack of a better word.

而相反的情况就是财务困难。

And so then the opposite would be financial difficulty.

甚至想想有多少美国人因为医疗账单而陷入破产，比如这种情况。

Even think about how many Americans have been experiencing bankruptcy due to medical bills, for example.

我脑子里没有具体的星盘例子能明确关联到第二宫。

And I don't have any chart examples in my head that would necessitate a connection to the second house.

几乎相反的情况更可能属于第八宫。

Almost the opposite is more the eighth house for that.

但仅仅是无法确保自身的财务稳定，比如不得不更多依赖他人，而不是感觉能通过自己的努力满足财务和其他资源需求。

But even just not being able to ensure financial stability for oneself, like maybe needing to rely more on other people versus feeling like you can have your financial and other resource needs met based on your own activity.

对。

Right.

这真是个很好的观点。

That's a really good one.

我之前有个客户，这个例子一直让我印象很深。他在20世纪二三十年代的大萧条时期长大，家境非常贫寒，那段经历一辈子都刻在他身上，还一直影响着他的精神状态——他的星盘里土星落在第二宫，而且那还是一张夜生盘，所以物质保障匮乏的恐惧成了他人生里一直挥之不去的困扰。

Had a client that this example always stuck with me because he grew up in a very poor family during the Great Depression in the 1920s and 30s, and that experience always stuck with him throughout his life and always continued to inform his sort of mental state involving with Saturn in the second house, I think in a night chart and just fear surrounding material security as being a consistent issue throughout his life.

哪怕他成年后已经在一定程度上摆脱了困境、过上了安稳的生活，这种恐惧也没消失。

Even once he was able to overcome that to some extent and become stable as an adult.

对，完全没错。

Yeah, absolutely.

好的，那接下来聊聊第三宫。

Okay, so third house.

如果你的第三宫状态良好，你会住在一个非常安全的社区里，一个让你觉得格外安心的社区，你能和邻居们维持融洽的关系，也能和自己生命里的兄弟姐妹或是像家人一样的同辈处得很好。

If you have a well situated third house experience living in a really safe neighborhood, a neighborhood that you feel really comfortable in, having positive relationships with your neighbors and positive relationships with any siblings or sibling like people in your life.

反过来说就是住在糟糕的社区里，或是你被迫身处暴力环境中，又比如说遭遇种族定性，或是其他一些在居住环境里你往往无法掌控的客观问题。

Versus the opposite of living in a difficult neighborhood or where you're subjected to violence or let's say profiling or other circumstantial issues that are sometimes out of your control in terms of your neighborhood.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

对。

Yep.

第四宫位置良好，意味着与原生家庭关系融洽，或者如果你是被收养的，那就是你核心家庭的任何一种形式。

Fourth house, well situated, having positive relationships with your family of origin, or if you're adopted, whatever your core family is in some way.

也可能意味着你不会在寻找和建立自己的物理住所方面感到困难。

And maybe also not struggling to find and establish physical homes for yourself.

是的，这很好，而相反的情况则是，比如失去父母、没有父母、父母对你施暴，或者有着艰难的背景故事，因为第四宫也关乎你的根源和出身，因此可能还涉及其他由此引发的扩展性问题，或因父母身份而遭遇的挣扎。

Yeah, that's really good ones versus the opposite of let's say, losing a parent or not having parents or having your parents be abusive or having difficult background stories because the fourth is also just your roots and your origins and so maybe other extended problems in terms of that or areas where you encounter or experience struggles as result of who your parents were.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的，比如想象一下，无论你的家是什么样子，一生中都持续存在不稳定的主题。

Yeah, like even thinking about intense instability at home, however home looks throughout your life, consistent themes of instability.

对。

Right.

所以，我的意思是，也许这是一个我们该讨论的问题，它在我脑海中浮现了：在和本的讨论中，我们有时会把这描述为幸运与不幸，或者类似的东西。

So, mean, maybe that's an issue or question we should talk about that's coming up for me which is sometimes in the discussion with Ben, we framed this in terms of fortunate versus unfortunate or things like that.

我们部分是在特权的语境下谈论这个，但特权是否总是与生俱来的？还是它可能是暂时的，或者仅仅是一些特定事件带来的？

We're talking about it partially in the context of privilege, but is privilege always something that you're born with or can it be something that is temporary or can be just like an event or event oriented in some way?

哦，我认为这绝对是事件导向且暂时的，对吧？

Oh, I would say that it can definitely be event oriented and transitory, right?

比如，假设你有一段非常不错的财务年份，虽然你的第二宫可能并不特别理想，但至少也没有负面影响。

So for example, say you do have a really good financial year, maybe you don't have a super dignified second house, but it's also not negatively situated either.

因此你经历了一段非常积极的第二宫时期，接着又遭遇了非常负面的第二宫时期。

And so you have a really good second house experience and then you have a really negative second house experience.

当你处于财务或物质富足的状态时，你就拥有了财务和物质富足的特权。

Whenever you are in a position of financial abundance or material abundance, then you have the privilege of having financial and material abundance.

但这些

But those

都是会衰退或可能丧失的东西。

are things that decay or can decay, can be lost.

所以在人的一生中，即使是那些中了彩票的人，也往往缺乏能帮助他们长期维持财富的财务咨询，最终陷入破产。

So in a lifetime, even those stories of people who win the lottery do not have access to the kind of financial counseling that would facilitate long term abundance with those winnings, and then they end up in bankruptcy.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

所以它可能是一种暂时的东西。

So it can be something that is temporary.

它只是让你与那些没有相同经历或同样幸运程度的人形成对比，因为这确实很难。

It's just something that offsets you and what your situation is relative to other people who may not have the same experience or the same level of being not just fortunate because it's hard.

这不一定适合用幸运或不幸来定义，它只是以某种方式制造了不平衡吗？

It's not necessarily don't know if it's right to Is it right to situate in terms of like fortunateness versus unfortunateness or it's just something that creates an imbalance in some way?

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的，我的意思是，它参与并构成了某些根深蒂固的不平等，对吧？

Yeah, I mean, it creates and is a participant in some of the baked in inequities, right?

好的。

Okay.

中彩票。

Winning the lottery.

关于社会价值观，而这些价值观本身也在变化，并非永久不变，只是相对于当前社会而言？

On societal values which themselves are shifting and not necessarily permanent but just relative to current society?

是的。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

明白了。

Got it.

太好了。

Cool.

好的。

Okay.

所以第四宫，我觉得说得挺好的。

So fourth house, I think that was pretty good.

第五宫，传统上是关于孩子的吗？

Fifth house, children traditionally?

孩子的宫位。

The house of children.

所以，一个幸运或优越的第五宫不仅关乎孩子，还关乎艺术。

So a fortunate fifth house or a privileged fifth house wouldn't just be children and also art.

也许比如，你有一个水瓶座的第五宫，金星在水瓶座，且金星掌管夜盘的上升星座，同时金星本身状态极佳，而你又是一位非常知名的艺术家，对吧？

Maybe if you have, I don't know, say you have an Aquarius fifth house with Venus in Aquarius and Venus ruling the Ascendant in a night chart and then Venus is otherwise also very happy and you're a super well known artist, right?

这正是我在推特上发帖时，有人自诩为金星在第五宫得喜且同时掌管上升星座的直接例子。

This is a direct example of something on Twitter whenever I tweeted something and someone demonstrated themselves, presented themselves as an example of having Venus in its joy in the fifth and ruling the Ascendant simultaneously.

是的。

Yeah.

或者，即使只是像你小学时遇到一位特别优秀的艺术老师，他们大力鼓励并帮助你发展艺术才能，从而让你后来走上艺术道路并成为成功的艺术家。

Or maybe with a placement like that even just maybe when you're in elementary school, you had a really great art teacher who really encouraged and helped to facilitate the growth of your artistic skills that then leads you later into pursuing a career and becoming a successful artist.

但如果你没有这种运气或特权，没有遇到那位关键的老师来帮助你发展，你后来可能就无法取得如此成就。

But if you hadn't had that luck or that privilege of having that important teacher who facilitated that for you, you wouldn't have otherwise been able to become as successful later on.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

甚至举个例子，你可能非常有创造力。

Even an example, maybe you're super creative.

这不太像一种特权，所以可能关联性没那么强。

This is less of a privilege thing so maybe it's less relevant.

但我想说的是，成为一个杰出的艺术家，却在去世后才被发现。

But I was just going to say being an excellent artist but not being discovered until after you've passed.

好的。

Okay.

是的，这一点很重要，因为我确实想区分清楚，如果可能的话，什么是特权，什么不是特权。

Yeah, so that's important because I do want to be able to distinguish between if we can, what is privilege versus what is not privilege.

我理解这两者之间的区别。

I understand the distinction between those two categories.

所以你的意思是，这并不是一个很好的例子，因为即使我指的是，如果他们天生具备艺术方面的技能或天赋，这也是一种内在的特权。

So you're saying that's not a great case because even if I mean, it would be an inherent privilege if they had an inherent skill or aptitude with art in and of itself.

你是说，即使他们一生中无法充分利用这种能力，这也算是一种特权吗？

Are you saying that that counts as a privilege even if it's not something they're able to take advantage of fully in their lifetime.

是的，这是个非常有趣的问题。

Yeah, that's such an interesting question.

因为这样一来，我们就触及到了特权这个概念在何时最相关，何时是运气，何时是特权的问题。

Because then we get at the question of when is the concept of privilege most relevant and when is it luck versus when is it privilege?

我觉得在这场对话中，社会政治特权的一个关键点在于，它在你与世界互动时为你带来社会性的好处。

And I feel like in this conversation, one of the things about sociopolitical privilege is that it confers social benefits to you as you move through the world

好的。

Okay.

某种程度上，当你

In some way, as

在世界上行动时。

you operate within the world.

特权主要源于社会政治因素。

So privilege is primarily sociopolitical in its origins.

我们还没有完全界定清楚，这里所讨论的特权具体包括哪些类型，或者说人们拥有哪些不同类别的特权？

We never defined completely what classes of things we're talking about in terms So of what are the types of privileges or what are the different classes of privilege that people have?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，种类非常多，对吧？

I mean, there's very many, right?

等一下。

Hold on.

存在视觉特权。

There's visual privilege.

当你在世界上活动时，你如何被他人看待，以及你的外在呈现是否为你带来便利或阻碍，对吧？

So as you move through the world, how you are perceived and whether your presentation is something that confers upon you ease of movement or dis ease of movement, right?

好的。

Okay.

所以这涵盖了白人特权的某些表现、美貌特权的某些表现、性别表达特权的某些表现，甚至在很大程度上还包括财富展示特权的某些表现，对吧？

So this encapsulate things like certain manifestations of white privilege, certain manifestations of pretty privilege, certain manifestations of gender presentation privilege, even to a large degree certain manifestations of wealth presentation privilege, right?

因为你能看出一个人穿的是昂贵的衣服，还是破烂的衣服，这是一种非常直观的成分。

Because you can tell when somebody is wearing expensive clothes versus when they are wearing rags, that's a very visual component.

所以我认为存在视觉特权。

So I think there's visual privilege.

好的。

Okay.

然后是阶级特权，它可能包含视觉特权，但又超越了它，或者说，它和视觉特权的关系可能不是一个精确的维恩图。

Then there is class privilege which can include visual privilege but goes beyond it or like, I don't know, is in a non exact Venn diagram maybe with visual privilege.

阶级特权指的是你对物质资源的获取，以及只有物质资源才能为你提供的那些东西。

So class privilege would be around the access that you have to material resources and the things that only material resources can provide you with.

因此，这也包括教育特权、财产、某些社区的安全性、能够通过贿赂让人帮你摆脱麻烦，诸如此类的事情。

So this would also include educational privilege, property, certain kinds of neighborhood safety, being able to bribe someone to not get you in trouble about something, those sorts of things.

这甚至可能适用于法律体系——有些人因为能负担得起或接触到昂贵的律师，而能免于某些罪行的惩罚或不用坐牢，而社会经济地位较低的人却无力承担，因而受到更严厉的判决，对吧？

That could even apply to maybe the legal system of people being able to get off for certain types of crimes or not go to jail due to being able to afford or having access to expensive lawyers versus somebody in a lower socioeconomic level not being able to afford that and therefore getting a much harsher sentence or what have you than you would get otherwise?

是的，对。

Yes, yeah.

或者像被无限期拘留，而不是在等待开庭期间正常生活。

Or like being detained indefinitely instead of being able to live your life while your court date is coming up.

对。

Right.

是的，明白。

Yeah, okay.

所以是视觉特权、阶级特权。

So visual privilege, class privilege.

我在想还有哪些其他类别，因为我觉得这些可能还不够，文化特权也应该算在内，因为有一个词叫文化霸权，意思是某种特定的文化取向被视为默认标准。

I'm trying to think what other categories because I feel like those are maybe mean, there's also cultural privilege I think counts too because there's this phrase called cultural hegemony which is this idea that a particular cultural orientation is the default.

如果你属于这种默认文化，你通常不会意识到自己属于默认群体，因为这种文化取向就是人们日常所处的环境。

And if you are of the default, you don't really consider that you're of the default because that cultural orientation just is the thing that people operate within.

而当你被置于质疑你的文化或违背你文化默认的情境时，可能会感到非常不适。

And it can then be really uncomfortable whenever you're put in a position that questions your culture or goes against your cultural default.

但在这个框架内，我们甚至可以思考种族、移民、宗教、精神信仰以及其他文化规范，看看这些文化规范是否被广泛视为主流规范，或者它们只是社会中某个群体的规范，而这些群体的文化规范在更广泛的社会中显得突出或与众不同。

But within that, we could even think about ethnicity, immigration, religion, spirituality, other sorts of cultural norms and whether those cultural norms are broadly considered to be norms or if it's a subset of society and your cultural norms within that subset are noticeable, like they stand out in some kind of way within broader society.

好的。

Okay.

我能想到的一个例子是法国目前持续存在的争议：穆斯林女性是否应该被允许佩戴头巾或与信仰相关的面纱。

So one example of this that I can think of is the ongoing issue in France of whether or not Muslim women are allowed to wear hijab or face coverings that are relevant for their faith.

在新冠疫情期间，出于防疫目的的面罩是被允许的，但穆斯林女性希望佩戴的宗教性面罩却不被允许。

And with coronavirus, face coverings for coronavirus have been allowed but not the religious face coverings that Muslim women would like to be wearing within that context.

因此，在法国的文化霸权体系下，穆斯林女性这一亚文化群体出于宗教原因佩戴面罩不被允许，但为了维护法国社会整体身体安全、符合主流文化需求的面罩却是被接受的。

So, within the cultural hegemony of France, face coverings for the specific reason of the subculture of Muslim women is not allowed, but face coverings that are beneficial for the cultural hegemony, so like the bodily safety of the French population at large are okay.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

是这样吗

Is that

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，在列举了所有这些因素之后，开始变得清晰的是，我们可以回到最初的观点：为什么识别所有这些多层次因素对自我关怀至关重要，因为你必须能够识别出——正如你在讲座中所说的——你所处的‘身份矩阵’，这样才能真正理解的不仅是你的出生星盘，还能 contextualize 它，同时也能识别出你生活中哪些事情是你想当然的，哪些是你不必想当然的，或者哪些是你想要从想当然的清单中移除或以某种方式改变的，不仅在个人层面，也在整个社会层面？

I mean, and in enumerating all of these, starting to then I think it's then becoming clear we can take it back to the original point of why the recognition of all of these multiple levels is important in terms of self care because you have to be able to identify the I think you said like the identity matrix is what you called it in your lecture that you're operating within in order to truly understand not just your birth chart and to be able to contextualize it, but also to be able to identify what are the things that you're taking for granted in your life and what are the things that you don't have to just take for granted or what are the things that maybe you want to remove from the list of things that you're taking for granted or try to change in some way, not just in yourself but also in terms of society in general?

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

例如，再回到法国的例子，某些类型的穆斯林头饰——无论是头巾还是面纱——作为宗教标志是被禁止的，但佩戴表明宗教信仰的项链，或者法国修女佩戴她们的头饰——修女的头饰叫什么来着？

For example, even thinking about going back to the French example where the wearing of certain kinds of Muslim headgear of some kind, whether it be a headscarf or a face covering of some kind, that being like a religious indicator that is disallowed but say wearing a necklace that indicates your religious affiliation or even nuns in France being able to wear their What is the head covering for nuns called?

是的。

Yeah.

我明白你的意思。

I know what you mean.

那不是斗篷，但有点像斗篷之类的东西。

It's not a cloak, but it's sort of like a cloak or something.

是的。

Yeah.

我一时想不起那个词了。

I'm totally spacing on the word right now.

但这种头饰是可以接受的，因为基督教更接近法国主流文化霸权，而穆斯林女性佩戴某种头饰则不然。

But that kind of head covering is okay because Christianity is closer to the broader French cultural hegemony than Muslim women also wearing some kind of covering.

明白。

Sure.

我甚至都忘了，因为我对这个问题不太熟悉，法国至少在政治立场上认为——也许我不该试图去阐述这一点。

I forget even because I'm not fully familiar with the issue, the French at least political stance is that think Maybe I shouldn't even attempt to articulate what

他们的是的。

they're Yeah.

我理解的是，这既是一种同化主义的做法——我们希望所有法国人都成为真正的法国人，又是一种误解，即认为女性戴头巾等同于被压迫，却忽略了穆斯林女性选择佩戴希贾布或其他宗教性头饰，是出于她们自身对信仰的个人信念，而非被父权压迫的结果。

So my understanding of it is like it's both an assimilationist thing where it's like we want all French people to be French and a misperception that women covering themselves is the same as women being oppressed that any Muslim woman who is choosing to wear hijab or any other kind of religiously based covering is doing so because they are being smashed by patriarchy instead of doing so because of their own personal convictions and beliefs around their faith.

因此，这是一种强加特定观念的做法，即什么是‘自由女性’，而不是允许女性自主做出选择。

And so it's like an imposition of particular kind of idea of what it means to be a liberated woman versus allowing women to just make choices for themselves.

当然。

Sure.

对。

Yeah.

所以这是一个很好的例子，说明不同文化之间产生了冲突。

So that's a really good example then cultural ones coming into conflict with each other.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

而且还有，基于文化假设，哪些同类型的行为是被允许的。

And also, which variants of the same activity are allowed based on cultural assumptions.

当然。

Sure.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

这让我们稍微回到了我们之前已经触及到的话题，但核心观点是，图表的背景很重要。

This sort of takes us a little bit back to what we were already basically getting into, but the underlying point is that the context of the chart matters.

这正是你在讲座中特别强调的一点。

And that was like one of your main things that you were really pointing out in the lecture.

你还提到，我们在准备这次讨论时谈到的托勒密，这并不是什么新东西。

And you referred to when we were preparing for this about Ptolemy, this not being a new thing.

这并不是一个新观念。

It's not like this is a new idea.

事实上，早在二世纪，托勒密就已经说过，图表的背景至关重要。

But in fact, back in the second century, Ptolemy basically said the same thing that the context of the chart matters.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

所以，如果我们回到关于第五宫的文化讨论，假设某种文化中优先考虑多子多福，那么在这种文化背景下，一个吉祥的第五宫或幸运的第五宫就会表现为极高的生育力，预示着能够生育大量健康、快乐的孩子，并让家族血脉不断延续，对吧？

And so, thinking like if we're gonna go back to the houses discussion with the fifth house culturally speaking if one of the cultural, I don't know, priorities I guess is having lots of children then within that cultural context a blessed fifth house or like a fortunate fifth house would be one that is very fertile and indicates high chances of producing lots of children and healthy children and happy children that go on to continue your line unendingly, right?

而一个不吉利或不幸的第五宫，则会指向不育或不孕，而非生育子女。

And then a misfortunate or an unfortunate fifth house would be one that points towards barrenness or infertility instead of the production of children.

但在一种更重视创造力、艺术性，或与生育特质同等重视，或极度推崇享乐与愉悦等金星相关价值的文化背景下，第五宫位置良好所带来的积极影响就会体现在这些方面。

But in a cultural context that prioritizes creativity or artistry or things like that more so or in equal measure to the reproductive qualities of the fifth house or a cultural context that is a really big fan of hedonism and pleasure other Venusian things, then that would be the thing that would be the beneficial impact of a well situated fifth house.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

所以，所谓吉与凶、幸运与不幸，甚至特权与无特权，都具有很强的文化相对性。

So good and bad part of it then is that fortunate versus unfortunate or even privilege versus not having privilege is very culturally relative.

这也再次带出一个非常重要的观点：不仅星盘的背景，而且整个占星学在某种程度上都是文化相对的。

And it brings back a really important thing about not just the context of the chart, but all astrology being culturally relative in some way.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

我认为最近的参考是Rick Tarot杂志，它指出占星术在原型层面上是准确的，但未必在最细致、最严格的层面上精确，而这正是占星术的魅力之一。

Think it's like Rick Tarot zine is the most recent reference I have for this of just astrology is archetypically accurate but not necessarily down to the most detailed hard lined accurate because that's one of the gifts of astrology.

如果我在17世纪的意大利生活，我的星盘体验会与我如今在2020年的美国生活时截然不同。

It's like my chart if I was existing in 1600s Italy would have a different experience than the chart that I have existing in 2020 in America.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

是的，这说得通。

Yeah, that makes sense.

而你所能接触到的事物，取决于你的社会经济地位，以及阶级、性别、种族等其他因素，甚至外貌，这些都会构成额外的层面，进一步限制——至少会界定——可能表现的范围。

And the things available to you based on your own socioeconomic status and different factors of class and gender and race and everything else or appearance are also gonna be other layers that further put you not in a corner, at least will specify the range of possible manifestations to some extent.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, exactly.

完全正确。

Exactly.

所以我刚刚又想到了关于第五宫和特权的另一个想法。

So I I just had another idea about the fifth house and privilege.

也许你的第五宫在某种程度上暗示了生理上的不育，对吧？

Maybe you have a fifth house that to a certain degree indicates biological barrenness, right?

但你的第七宫和第二宫可能正在发生一些事情，表明你拥有资源和能力去进行试管婴儿治疗或领养，比如能够成功领养或获得代孕途径来将孩子带入你的生活。

But there's something happening maybe with your seventh house and your second house that indicates both the resources and the capacity to do something like IVF treatments or adopting, like being able to successfully adopt or have access to surrogacy as a method of bringing a child into your life.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我不确定，只是在思考各个宫位如何相互作用，以表明在特定宫位主题上的特权或缺乏特权。

So I don't know, just thinking about how the houses might interact with each other in terms of indicating privilege or lack thereof around a particular house topic.

对，还有一个人可能面临的挑战，这些挑战可能在星盘中有所体现，但有时缓解因素的存在也表明你有能力克服最初可能遇到的困难、挫折或障碍。

Right, as well as challenges a person might face that might be indicated in the chart, but also sometimes the presence of mitigations can indicate the ability to overcome challenges or difficulties or setbacks that you might start with, but you might be able to get through in some way.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, exactly.

那么再说到第六宫，一个配置极佳的第六宫可能意味着在第六宫相关主题上几乎不会遇到什么问题。

So then even going to the sixth house, where a super well situated sixth house can point to just not having very many problems around sixth house topics potentially.

但我突然想起基拉·桑德兰在一次NORWAC演讲中提到的一个星盘案例，那个人六宫有双子座，火星也在六宫，平时经常锻炼，身体非常健康，用火星来保持活跃和体力充沛，但后来发生了一些事，导致他暂时无法进行体力活动，结果出现了躁狂发作，因为他的常规火星释放渠道被剥夺了。

But I'm even actually being reminded of a chart example that Keira Sutherland used in one of her NORWAC talks of an individual who had Gemini in the sixth and Mars in the sixth and exercised constantly, extremely fit, was using their Mars to be active, physically active, but experienced something that meant they couldn't be physically active and then had a manic episode because their usual Mars outlet was removed from them for a time.

这就像是拥有通过健康活动来运用火星的特权，与缺乏这种特权——比如行动不便——导致火星在六宫产生负面表现之间的对比。

So it's like the privilege of being physically able to engage with Mars through health generating activity versus the lack of privilege, like the lack of mobility that then leads to a negative manifestation of Mars in the sixth.

对。

Right.

是的，六宫主要关乎身体健康或疾病，而身体健康或疾病有时确实会剥夺你像其他人那样正常运作的能力。

Yeah, that makes sense with the sixth primarily being about physical health or physical illness, and sometimes physical health or illness can be something that can take away or remove your ability to operate like other people do.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

好的。

Okay.

第七宫关乎关系、伙伴关系，以及一般意义上与他人的一对一互动。

Seventh house and just relationships or partnerships or relating to other people in one on one relationships in general.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以，有魅力是一种特权，对吧？

So being charming is a privilege, right?

这和‘颜值特权’不一样，但能够以一种让人感到愉悦、积极、有建设性和支持性的方式与他人建立关系， versus 第七宫状况不佳、在与他人建立联系时面临诸多挑战，这两者是不同的。

It's not the same as pretty privilege, but to be able to be in relationship with people in a way that feels good and is positive and generative and supportive versus having a less positive situation in your seventh house and having a lot of challenges connecting with other people.

这触及到某种程度上超越系统性的问题，因为人类是社会性生物，我们确实需要与他人保持联系，以维持整体健康。

And this gets at something that's kind of beyond systemic to a certain degree because humans are social creatures and we actually really do need to be in contact with other people for our overall wellness.

但我可以想象，在不同的社会文化背景下，各种社交焦虑会产生不同的影响，对吧？

But I can imagine that certain kinds of social anxiety in different sociocultural contexts will have different impacts, right?

所以，也许你是个非常内向的人，但你的第七宫运势很好，这意味着你能遇到理解你、接纳你、为你提供积极支持的朋友，诸如此类的情况。

So maybe you're a really shy person and you have a blessed seventh house which means that you find friends who can see you where you're at and who hold a positive container for you and all of that kind of thing.

但也许你是个非常害羞的人，而你的第七宫正在导致你越来越孤立。

But maybe you're a really shy person and something is happening in your seventh house that just leads to further and further isolation.

我的意思是，这有点黑暗，但在某种程度上，它把我们引向了第八宫——那种孤立无援、缺乏希望、与他人断绝联系的感觉，正是促使一些人选择结束生命的原因。

I mean, this is kind of dark, but it leads us into the eighth house to a certain degree, is just the sensation of isolation and lack of hope and lack of connection with other people contributing when people decide to take their own life.

对。

Right.

是的。

Right.

是的，这是个非常好的观点。

Yeah, that's a really good point.

关于第七宫，即使情况正在变化，如果回溯几十年，如果你处于同性关系中，或者你的性取向是同性，这是否构成一种‘劣势’？而相比之下，异性恋者拥有这种特权，这是否能准确体现我们在第七宫中所讨论的状况？

With the seventh house, even if things are changing, if you took it back a few decades, if you were in a same sex relationship or that was your orientation, would that be an instance being Versus if somebody is a heterosexual and having that privilege versus not, I mean, that be an accurate instance of what we could think about with respect to the seventh house?

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

异性恋特权或异性恋规范特权，与非异性恋规范关系之间的对比。

Straight privilege or heteronormative privilege versus non heteronormative relationship.

即使我们继续探讨并引入这些文化背景，比如20世纪20年代的单身职业女性与2020年代的单身职业女性，社会对她们的看待方式以及她们所能获得的机会都存在巨大差异。

Even thinking about if we're continuing to participate and bringing in the cultural context of these, being a single working woman in the 1920s versus being a single working woman in the 2020s, there's a vast difference in terms of how you're perceived by society and what kinds of opportunities are even presented to you.

是的。

Yeah.

在20世纪20年代或30年代，有一个术语用来形容男性——如果一个男人不是异性恋，且过了某个年龄仍未婚，就会被这样称呼。

There was a phrase for it in the 1920s or '30s, like an unmarried bachelor as a keyword if a man wasn't straight and they were past a certain age and weren't married.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

这些都是很好的例子。

So those are good instances.

然后，第八宫，你之前已经提到过一个了。

And then, the eighth house, you'd already mentioned one there.

你提到过相反的情况吗？或者什么是特权的实际例子？

Did you mention the opposite or what an instance of privilege would actually be?

对于第八宫，我在与一些客户的工作中观察到的一点是，通过继承获得资源。

So for the eighth house, one of the things that I've observed in my client work with some folks is having access to resources through inheritance especially.

并不是每个人在父母去世后都能继承财产，因为并不是每个家庭都有足够的特权来积累财富，从而在去世后将其传递给后代。

And not everybody gets an inheritance when their parents pass on because not everybody's family has the privilege basically to accumulate wealth in such a way that it can then be dispersed to their offspring once they pass.

对。

Right.

这将是

That would be

代际财富的传承？

The passing on of generational wealth?

是的，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

这将是我在第八宫这类情况中看到的主要特权。

That would be the main privilege that I would see in something like the eighth house.

而债务的传递，或者为了生存而积累债务，则是一种负面的、不太体面的、可以说是反特权的现象。

And then the passing on of debt or just the accumulation of debt in order to survive would be like a negative, like a less savory, like an anti privilege I guess.

当然。

Sure.

是的。

Yeah.

是的，这真是个很好的观点。

Yeah, that's a really good one.

我 definitely 能想到一些这样的例子。

I can definitely think of some instances of that.

对。

Yeah.

第九宫传统上代表教育、出国旅行以及与外国地方和事物的互动。

So the ninth house is traditionally education and foreign travel and interaction with foreign places and things.

嗯。

Mhmm.

还有宗教、信仰。

As well as religion, Religion and faith.

因此，从文化上讲，属于主流宗教可以被视为一种特权，而属于在特定环境或时代被明确压迫的信仰则不然。

And so in terms of privilege culturally being of the predominant religion, I would consider that to be a certain kind of privilege versus being of a faith that is explicitly oppressed in a given context or a given time period.

我想象一种情况：有人住在某个小型的、比如偏远乡村小镇，那里主要是基督徒，而你从外地搬来，你的家人是穆斯林之类的。

I'm imagining a scenario where somebody is living in some small, let's say, small rural town where it's predominantly Christian and you move in from out of town and your family is Muslim or something like that.

是的。

Yeah.

那就是这种情况的一个例子。

That would be an instance of that.

对。

Yeah.

或者想想异教，各种形式的异教信仰，是否被接受，还是仅仅被当作魔鬼崇拜者而遭到排斥，这对人们来说可能非常危险。

Or even thinking about paganism, different forms of paganisms and whether or not that's accepted or you're just dismissed as a devil worshipper or something like that, which can be really dangerous for people.

是的，甚至占星术有时也是如此，因为我见过一些成为占星师的人为此挣扎，如果他们的家人非常虔诚，就会被家庭排斥；或者相反，如果他们的家人是科学家背景，而他们突然成了占星师，也会因此被边缘化。

Yeah, or honestly, even astrology sometimes because I've seen people that become astrologers struggle with that if their family is either, let's say, highly religious and so that puts them on the outs of their family or even the opposite end of the spectrum if their family is a background of let's say scientists or something and suddenly they're an astrologer putting them on the outs in terms of that.

是的，无神论者，尤其是那种特定的唯物主义无神论者，有时会对占星术之类的东西反应非常负面。

Yeah, highly atheist or the specific kind of materialist atheist I think can sometimes react very negatively to something like astrology.

对。

Right.

或者反过来，假设一个人是无神论者，但在一个以宗教为主导的社会中生活，这会让他们成为少数群体，而不是被排斥在外。

Or even conversely and then to flip that around, let's say somebody that is an atheist but is practicing within the context of predominantly religious society and that's something that puts them on the outs of Not the outs, but in the minority of the popular.

当然。

Sure.

是的，这是一种潜在的劣势。

Yeah, potential disadvantage.

然后，显然，教育是非常重要的。

And then, yeah, obviously education is a huge thing.

高等教育的结构，至少在法国和美国——这是我唯一接触过高等教育体系的两个地方——

And the way that higher education has been structured at least in France and in The United States which are really the only places that I've had any kind of interaction with the higher education system.

存在一种固化阶级差异的体系，这正是为什么对于家庭中第一代上大学的人来说，这件事显得如此重要。

There are systems that have by and large calcified class differences which is why it can feel so important for people who are the first in their family to go to college.

这是一件大事，因为它被视为进入比父母或家庭更高阶层的阶梯。

It's a huge thing because it's considered a stepping stone into a class that is above the class of their parents or their family.

是的，通过教育，人们有机会摆脱并超越这个阶层。

Yeah, and an opportunity to get outside of that and to transcend it or to move beyond that class in some way through education.

是的，但这种情况并不总是成功，尤其是如果在这个过程中积累了巨额债务的话。

Yeah, which doesn't always work out especially if there's a massive accumulation of debt along the way.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

第八第九的关系。

The eighth ninth relationship.

对。

Right.

说得好。

Good point.

而这就是你可以像你之前那样，通过各宫的守护星将这些宫位联系起来的地方，这一点非常重要，因为这正是我和本在第19集讨论时的原始背景——我刚完成了一场长达八小时的关于宫位守护星的讲座，内容是我黄道占星课程的一部分，而这本书这一章中的大部分例子都来源于那次讲座。

And that's where you can connect some of these houses as you did earlier through the rulers of the houses which is really important since that was actually the original context of the discussion with Ben in Episode 19 was I just finished doing this really long eight hour lecture on the rulers of the houses for my Hellenistic course, which ended up being most of the examples I used in that chapter of my book.

但对我来说，这一点变得越来越明显，因为当你关注宫位守护星时，就能看到一个人生活中不同部分是如何相互关联的。

But it was just becoming so evident to me because you could see how different parts of a person's life were connected when you paid attention to the rulers of the houses.

而这一点一直以来都缺失了，因为在大多数二十世纪后期的占星书籍中，通常都不会介绍这一点。

And that was always something that was missing because it's not usually introduced in most late twentieth century astrology books.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

好的，第十宫。

Okay, tenth house.

拥有适合你职业发展的正确人脉网络，特别是如果你的天顶落在第十宫的话。

Mean, having the right kinds of networks for your career to move forward, if you are someone with the Midheaven that is placed in the tenth.

以恰当的方式展现在对的人面前，并在职业中展现出合适的形象，以推动你在世上的事业。

Being the right kind of visible to the right kinds of people and having the right kind of appearance within career in order to further whatever your work in the world might be.

对，确实如此。

Right, definitely.

所以在准备这次对话时，我记得你曾问我，我们讨论过是否可以聊聊一些我们自身的特权经历，这正是我想起的一件事，因为我有天顶的度数。

So when we were preparing for this, I remember you were asking me and we talked about maybe discussing some of our own instances of privilege and that was one of the things I thought about because I have the degree of the Midheaven.

它落在第十一整宫，但与金星合相。

It's in the eleventh whole sign house, but it's conjunct Venus.

我确实在不同阶段非常幸运，不仅在教育上能够进入像开普勒学院这样的地方，还获得了不同的导师机会，比如遇到德梅特拉·乔治并让她成为我的导师，之后又因缘际会受邀参与‘前景计划’等项目，这些都帮助我实现了作为一名占星师的职业目标和抱负。

And I've definitely gotten lucky at different points, not just educationally and being able to go to someplace like Kepler College, but also having different mentorship opportunities like meeting Demetra George having her become my mentor and then getting lucky through that in being invited to go to Project Hindsight and other things that have helped me along the way in terms of my different career goals and aspirations as an astrologer.

过去几周，我一直在反思这件事。

And that's something I've been reflecting on over the past couple of weeks.

如果我的种族、性别、性取向、社会经济地位或其他方面有所不同，我是否还能获得同样的机会？

Would I have had some of the same opportunities if I had different backgrounds in terms of my race or gender or sexual orientation or socioeconomic status or other things like that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的，绝对如此。

Yeah, absolutely.

这其实很好地引出了我想说的第十宫的负面方面，或者说第十宫的非特权面——比如对权威的抗拒、与上司的冲突、被他人视为或实际上成为问题，也就是在与人互动时可能遇到的声誉问题，对吧？

And that actually is a good segue into I guess we should say a negative thing about the tenth or an anti privilege about the tenth which potentially I'm trying to think problems with authority, problems with bosses, being perceived as or actually being a problem I guess in terms of operating with other people like problems with your reputation, right?

再回溯历史，某些时期，单身职业女性常常被默认是性工作者，这会严重削弱你在所选职业领域的机遇。

Which again even thinking back to history of just like to be a single working woman at certain time periods sometimes the assumption is that you are a sex worker and that could really diminish your opportunities in your professional field of choice.

或者，如果你是同性恋男性，一旦曝光，可能面临离婚、失业，甚至被行业封杀。

Or if it came out that you were a homosexual man that could end up divorced and unemployable and blacklisted essentially.

是的，我不确定。

Yeah, I don't know.

转到第十一宫，你的中天与金星相合，意味着拥有朋友。

Seguing into the eleventh where your MC is conjunct Venus, having friends.

拥有支持你的社群，围绕着你的中天，这显然会促进你的工作，也就是你在世上的最显赫事业。

Having supportive community around you with your MC there that clearly feeds into your work, your most visible work in the world.

但对于中天不在这里的其他人来说，一个配置良好的第十一宫也能极大地促进由积极社群互动所带来的各种益处。

But even for people whose MC isn't there to have a well situated eleventh house, it can really facilitate all of the things that are fed by positive community interaction.

对。

Right.

对。

Yeah.

当我二十出头时，我的流年运行到那里，所有这些都被激活了，我因为抱怨协会做得不够好，被邀请早早加入年轻占星师协会的董事会。

And when I was in my early 20s and my profections were going through there and all that stuff was getting activated, I was invited to join the board of the Association for Young Astrologers very early because I was complaining that they weren't doing a very good job.

于是他们说：‘那你为什么不干脆加入呢？’

And so they said, Well, why you just Why don't then come aboard?

他们反过来对我说：‘那就加入董事会吧。’

Basically turned it around on me and said, Well, join the board.

后来我在二十出头时当上了会长。

And then I eventually became president in my early twenties.

因此，国家地球宇宙研究委员会联系我，问我是否愿意加入他们的董事会，并担任几年研究主任。

And then as a result of that, the National Council for Geocosmic Research reached out and asked if I would join their board and become the research director for a few years.

这些都属于我因十一宫和十宫主题而获得好运或优势的例子，而这些主题的激活，部分源于我出生图中积极的星盘配置。

So that was instances of me having luck or getting advantages through eleventh housetenth house topics while some of those things were getting activated due to positive placements that were reflected in my birth chart.

是的。

Yeah.

而相反的情况则是挣扎。

And then the opposite, struggling.

也许根本没有抱负，对吧？

Maybe not even having aspirations, right?

我认为，对于那些非常注重成就、留下某种遗产、产生积极影响或获得某种程度正面名声的人来说，很容易忘记有些人由于各种原因根本就没有抱负。

I think for people who are very oriented towards achieving something, leaving a legacy of some kind, having a positive influence, having some level of positive notoriety, it can be really easy to forget that there are people that literally just don't have aspirations for whatever reason.

也许是因为经历了某些情况，比如目睹或被告诉他们的梦想是无效的、不可能实现的，于是他们放弃了追求任何目标，这在我看来是一种非常令人悲伤的第十一宫情境。

Maybe due to other circumstances through witnessing or being told that their dreams were invalid or their dreams couldn't happen, They just give up on achieving something which to me is like a very sad eleventh house kind of situation.

即使我们回到之前那个第五宫的例子，它让我们绕了一大圈，比如说，有人的金星在第五宫得喜，但却处于反位之类的情况。

Even if we were to go back to the fifth house example that kind of sent us on a loop de loop, so say someone has Venus in her joy in the fifth but in antithesis or something.

再加上，如果这是日间图，而火星位于第十一宫，或许还伴有火星与土星在第十一宫的合相。

And in combination with that, maybe it's a day chart and they have Mars in the eleventh and maybe a Mars Saturn conjunction in the eleventh.

在人生早期，有人告诉他们：‘你永远不可能成为艺术家。’

And early in life, someone tells them, There's no way you're ever gonna be an artist.

这根本不可能。

It's impossible.

于是这个人一生都从未允许自己追求自己的创造潜能。

So then that person goes their whole life just never letting themselves aspire to their creative potential.

所以我们就聚焦在第十一宫的核心含义：一个人的希望、愿望和抱负。

So just focusing on that eleventh house core signification of one's hopes and wishes and aspirations.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

对，这个观点非常好。

Yeah, that's a really good one.

而且，回到第十宫，它也延伸到了第十一宫，我想用一个我们之前没提过的特定关键词：在职业中遭遇歧视，而这确实会阻碍或拖慢你的发展。

And also, to go back to the tenth house, it also carries over to the eleventh, just I want to use the specific keyword that we hadn't used, experiencing discrimination when it comes to your career and that being actually something that holds you back or sets you back.

我有一些客户就经历过这种情况，他们因为歧视而没有获得晋升，职业发展没有达到应有的速度；甚至从第十一宫的角度来看，他们人生中某些希望和抱负也因歧视而被阻挠。

I have had clients who had that, who didn't get promotions or didn't move up as fast as they could have through their career or even to speak to your eleventh house topics about hopes and aspirations were blocked from some of the things that they wanted to achieve in their life as a result of discrimination.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, 100%.

就像玻璃天花板这个概念，你能看到还有更多可以实现的目标，但却被一些超出你个人控制的结构和思维模式所阻拦。

Like the concept of the glass ceiling, right, of being able to see that there is more to achieve but being prevented from breaking through by structures and ways of thinking that are beyond your personal control.

而由于这是‘玻璃’做的，玻璃天花板的一个特点是，那些已经突破它的人往往看不见它的存在，对吧？

And that often because it's glass, one of the things about the glass ceiling is it's invisible to the people that have transcended it, right?

他们根本看不到它在那里。

They don't see that it's there.

这在很多方面都可能是真的，对吧？

And this can be true in so many ways, right?

它可能适用于性别，适用于种族，适用于性取向，甚至适用于阶级和能力。

It can be true for gender, can be true for race, it can be true for sexual orientation, it can be true for even class and ability.

所有这些不同的因素都可能导致人们忽视你的价值。

All of these different things can be factors in people dismissing your worthiness.

对吧？

Right?

回到价值感这个话题。

Go back to worthiness.

否定你在特定领域内晋升的价值。

Dismissing your worthiness of advancing within a particular field.

对。

Right.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

而且实际上，第十一可能表现为：有时朋友或群体结构会支持你，而有时你却缺乏这样的支持，被排除在能够支持你希望和抱负的群体或支持结构之外。

And also tangibly, eleventh can just be like friends sometimes having friends or group structures that are supportive of you versus maybe not having that or being left out of groups or support structures that would otherwise support you and support your hopes and aspirations.

是的。

Yeah.

仅凭个人努力就能实现梦想。

Achieves their dreams on solo effort alone.

有一些因素超出了你个人的控制范围，共同影响着这些结果。

There's some combination of factors that are beyond your own personal influence that contribute to those things.

因此，缺乏这些条件是一件非常、非常重要的事。

So not having those things is a huge, huge thing.

是的。

Yeah.

那也是我早期参与AYA的原因之一，因为当时在社群中，对于刚进入的年轻占星师来说，缺乏支持结构，而我帮助他们与已有的资深占星社群建立联系，并推动这一建设。

And that was one of the reasons why I was involved in AYA early on because that was an important thing in the community at the time where there weren't support structures when I came into the community for younger astrologers and helping them get connected to the established older astrological community and building that.

顺带一提，我想提到的是，像这样的组织和团体非常有用，能帮助平衡这类问题——十年前或十五年前，我就扮演过这样的角色，至今仍在继续。

Somewhat of a segue, I wanted to mention that because then that's something in terms of other organizations and groups that would be useful and help balance things out like that where I have played that role kind of like ten or fifteen years ago and continues to.

但在你的演讲以及Bear River的演讲中，你们都提到了正在筹备的一个组织。

But in your talk and also in Bear River's talk, you had mentioned working on an organization

嗯。

Mhmm.

你们还在幕后持续推动的一个组织。

That you guys are still working on behind the scenes.

是的，这个组织是Bear River、Shakira Tavern、我本人，还有Aaron Tak Shipley现在也参与了基础建设工作，或许更准确地说，是参与了奠基工作。

Yeah, so that's with Bear River, Shakira Tavern, myself, Aaron Tak Shipley is now participating in some of the foundation creation, like the foundation laying I guess would be a better way of putting that.

但这个组织叫MICA，即占星者形而上学交叉性集体。

But it's MICA, the Metaphysical Intersectionality Collective of Astrologers.

它特别关注于交叉性这一层面，即支持占星社群意味着不仅要促进多样性和包容性，更要围绕热爱占星的多元人群构建真正的社群。

And it's really focused on especially the intersectional component of what does it mean to support the astrological community in bringing not just diversity and inclusion, but actual community building around the multifaceted nature of people who love astrology.

所以是的，我不确定能透露多少，但我知道我们的一个主要目标是教育。

So yeah, I don't know how much I can really say, but I know one of our big goals is education.

尤其是针对那些希望自己的占星实践更具包容性、更能意识到占星咨询环境之外影响客户或学生（视你的角色而定）的各种因素的人。

So education for especially people who are wanting their astrological practices to be more inclusive and more aware of the factors outside of the astrological consult setting that are impacting their clients or their students or both depending on what your role in astrology is.

然后是可及性，我们希望提供各种类型的奖学金，用于参加研讨会、接受教育，甚至获取占星解读。

And then access, so we would like to get scholarships going of various kinds for going to conferences, for education, for people getting readings even, right?

我们理解，真正接受占星解读——作为被解读的一方——是占星教育中至关重要的部分。

Understanding that actually getting consultations like being on the receiving end of consultations is a huge part of astrological education.

这就像与一位专业人士坐在一起。

It's like sitting with a professional.

你曾提到，这一点曾经让我大开眼界。

And you said that at one point, that was an eye opening thing for me.

但你指出，占星的洞见和知识本身可能是一种特权，尤其是因为获得占星解读的费用，甚至与最顶尖占星师咨询的费用，有时超出了人们的承受能力。

But you pointed out that astrological insights and knowledge are privilege or can be a privilege in and of itself, especially due to the expense of getting an astrological consultation or even getting a consultation with the best astrologers can sometimes be outside of what a person can afford.

是的，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

确实有这个因素。

There's that factor.

甚至拥有准确的出生时间也是一种特权，我认为很多人并没有意识到这一点。

There's also the privilege of even having a birth time which I think a lot of people don't recognize as a privilege.

比如，如果你是被收养的，或者出生在没有这种记录保存的环境中。

Like if you are adopted or you were born in a context where there wasn't that kind of record keeping.

即使通过校正时间，也无法解决所有问题。

Even rectification can't fix everything.

是的，这些正是获取占星服务时最主要的两个障碍。

Yeah, mean those being the two main things when it comes to accessing it.

还有时间、互联网、稳定的网络连接，以及一个能够安全参与占星活动的环境。

Also having the time, having the internet, consistent internet, and a safe space in which to engage with astrology.

回到第九宫的问题：如果你所处的文化环境完全敌视占星学习，而你参与占星研究甚至会给自己带来某种风险，该怎么办？

Going back to the ninth house question which is what if the cultural situation for you is completely hostile to your astrological studies and you're putting yourself at some kind of risk to engage with pursuing astrology.

这并不是我的情况，我意识到这是一种特权。

That's not my situation and I recognize that as a privilege.

当然。

Sure.

是的，这非常好。

Yeah, that's really good.

关于米迦，你们还没有网站，但你们有一个Instagram页面。

Terms of Micah, you guys don't have a website yet, but you do have an Instagram page.

所以我想分享一下，就是micaastrologers。

So I just wanted to share that which is just micaastrologers.

所以Instagram账号是instagram.com/micaastrologers，如果人们有Instagram的话，关注一下这个账号会很好，这样当你们把组织运作起来时，他们就能收到通知。

So instagram.com/micaastrologers, and that might be a good If people have Instagram to follow that just so when you guys do get the organization up and running, they can start getting notifications.

是的。

Yeah.

我们现在正在努力推进内容的发布。

And we are really grinding on trying to put things out now.

所以是在NORWAC之后。

So like after NORWAC.

很好。

Good.

好的。

All right.

我想这终于带我们来到了第十二宫。

I think that brings us finally to the twelfth house.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

第十二宫实际上是我最喜欢探讨的宫位之一，因为我那里有东西。

And the twelfth house, this is actually one of my favorite houses to engage with because I have things there.

我那里有主导性的因素。

I have dominant things there.

我的太阳、月亮和水星都落在第十二宫整宫中。

I have Sun, Moon, and Mercury all in the twelfth whole sign house.

但对我来说，拥有这种特权意味着我能够自如地面对第十二宫的话题，而这对很多人来说非常困难。

But for me, a privilege there is the facility and willingness to engage with twelfth house topics which is really challenging for a lot of people.

而要能够进行这种探索，需要许多并非人人都能获得的条件。

And to be able to do that engagement requires a lot of things that not everyone has access to.

首先，需要有这种意愿。

Willingness, first of all.

我甚至不知道该叫它什么。

I don't even know what to call it.

第十二宫总是很难用语言表达清楚。

The twelfth house is always hard to put words to.

它不完全是韧性，但我想要的那个词到底是什么？

It's not exactly resiliency but what like is the word that I want?

也许是坚毅？

Fortitude maybe?

我想小心一点，不要用灵性成长这样的语言来表述，因为这其实并不是本质。

Like I want to be careful about not trying to phrase this in terms of spiritual evolution language that's not really what it is.

但这就有点像坚韧，一种能够面对十二宫中某些事物的坚韧，这些事物可能包含大量的羞耻、痛苦，以及强烈的孤立感、边缘感。

But it's kind of like tenacity, like the tenacity to be able to engage with some of the things that exist in the twelfth house which can be a lot of shame, it can be a lot of pain, it can be a lot of sensation of isolation, the sensation of being very liminal.

对某些人来说，这甚至看起来像是被实实在在地隔离起来。

For certain people, this also looks like literally being some level of put away so to speak.

比如在精神病院度过的时间、在监狱里待过的时间，或者在修道院、寺院，或独自进行某种静修的时间。

So like time spent in psychiatric hospitals, time spent in jail, time spent in ashrams or monasteries or on solo retreat of some kind.

因此，这实际上可能是十二宫的特权体验与非特权体验之间的一条分界线。

And so that actually could be one of the dividing lines between a privileged experience of the twelfth house and a non privileged experience of the twelfth house.

特权表现为能够自主选择去参加冥想静修。

Privilege looks like being able to choose to go on a meditation retreat.

非特权则表现为被强制投入监禁。

Non privileged looks like being pulled into incarceration.

对，或者被错误监禁，或者没有能力聘请律师，因而因莫须有的罪名被关押三十年之类的情况。

Right, or being falsely incarcerated or not having the ability to hire a lawyer and therefore getting put away for thirty years on false charges or something like that.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，外部方面，第十二宫非常模糊，但那些外部因素，比如你具体身处何地。

So there's again both the external The twelfth house is so murky, but those external things of just like where are you physically located.

还有内在的体验：你能否承受直面那些深层的心理或灵性内容——姑且这么称呼吧。

Then also the internal experiences of can you withstand being face to face with some of those deep psychological or spiritual, I don't know, contents for lack of a better word.

对。

Yeah.

比如，你有这方面的支持吗？

Like do you have the support for that?

你是否找到了合适的资源来很好地引导你？

Have you found the right resources to guide you well?

你能安全地面对这些事情，而不会可能陷入某种精神崩溃吗？

Can you safely engage with those things without maybe falling into a psychiatric break of some kind?

是的，这是个非常好的观点。

Yeah, that's a really good point.

或者从我的类比的另一面来看，比如一个人进了监狱，但后来自学法律，成为律师，成功地解救了自己，之后继续为未来类似处境的人争取权益。

Or to think of the other side of my analogy, like the person that goes to jail, let's say, but then teaches themself and learns law and becomes a lawyer and then successfully is able to free themselves and then go on to fight for others in similar circumstances in the future.

显然，这些情况非常罕见，但有时确实会发生，你可能会在这样的出生图中看到什么，而与相反情况的出生图有何不同。

Obviously, are those are very rare instances, but sometimes things like that happen and just what you would expect to see in a birth chart in instances like that versus ones where the opposite happens.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对，完全正确。

Yeah, totally.

好的。

All right.

所以我认为我们已经对十二宫做了一次相当不错的梳理。

So I think that was a pretty good trip through the 12 houses.

当然，我们本可以深入更多细节，探讨更多内容。

And obviously, there was a lot that we could have gone into to get into more detail in that.

但我想，这让我们回到了原点，因为我们现在回到了第一宫，正好呼应了自我关怀这一概念——识别这些因素，以及一旦你发现了自己生活中可能存在的特权领域后，该如何利用这些信息。

But I think maybe this brings us around back full circle since we've now come back to the first house appropriately to how this is tied into the idea of self care, the identification of these things and what you can do with that information once you've identified maybe areas of privilege in your own life.

是的。

Yeah.

这不仅是识别特权领域，同时也在于识别相对的边缘化处境，同时认识到人们在生活中经历的差异。

Well, it's in part identifying areas of privilege but also in part identifying areas of relative marginalization while simultaneously kind of recognizing the differences of experiences that people have throughout their lives.

因此，我鼓励人们去审视自己所理解的特权和边缘化处境，并努力消除自己对这些方面所持有的‘应得’或‘不应得’的观念。

And so, one thing that I encourage people to do and we kind of touched on this earlier is to look at what you understand your privileges to be and your marginalizations to be and to do the work to kind of eradicate any sense of deservingness or undeservingness that you have around those things.

如果我能直接从人们的头脑中剔除‘应得’和‘不应得’这些概念，我一定会这么做，因为它们严重阻碍了自我慈悲，也阻碍了对他人的同理心。

If I could just kind of pluck the concepts of deservingness and undeservingness out of people's heads, I totally would because it really gets in the way of self compassion as well as compassion for other people.

我在演讲中更明确地探讨过这一点，但如果你相信人们理应承受他们所处的境遇，那你对那些比你拥有更少的人会有多友善呢？

I go into this in my talk a little bit more explicitly but if you believe that people deserve their lived circumstances then how kind are you to people who have less than you have, for example?

如何

How

你对他们的情况有多少同理心或真正的理解？

much empathy or true understanding of their situation do you have?

是的。

Yeah.

你对他们的情况有多少同情心？

And how much compassion do you have for their situation?

你多大程度上理解自己有可能以某种方式积极影响他们的处境？

How much do you understand your capacity to potentially positively impact their circumstances in some way?

所以，首先要做的是看看你面前有什么，并尽力消除那种应得或不应得的念头——这话说起来容易做起来难。

So yeah, that would be the first thing is just like look at what is in front of you and do what you can to remove deservingness and undeservingness which is way easier said than done.

当然。

Sure.

因此，这是一个补充：当你投身于这项工作时，尽可能对自己温柔一些。

So that's kind of an addendum which is whenever you engage with this work as much as you can, be kind with yourself through it.

是的，因为你在演讲中提到，这并不是一项容易的工作。

Yeah, because you point out in your talk that this isn't easy work.

识别这些事情并不容易。

Identifying these things is not easy.

这实际上可能对你自己来说非常非常困难。

It can actually be very, very difficult for yourself.

是的，这真的可能很难。

Yeah, it can be really hard.

而且这可能有几方面的原因。

And it can be hard for a couple of reasons.

这可能很难，因为我们看不到空气，例如，但我们都被空气包围着。

It can be hard because we don't see air, for example, but we're all surrounded by air.

我们可以通过向空气中添加某些东西，比如香，来感知空气的运动。

And we can perceive air through things like the movements of air through adding something to it, like adding particulates to it like incense.

如果我们加入一些烟雾，就能更清楚地看到气流。

We can see air currents more if we have some smoke involved.

模糊你的自我认知是这个过程的一部分，这可能会让人感到非常不安。

Muddying your self-concept is part of the process and that can feel really destabilizing.

我只是觉得，我一直相信自己是个好人，但这里却有这么多证据表明，我实际上在参与或默许一些伤害他人的行为。

I'm just like, I've always believed I'm a really good person, but here's all this evidence that I am complicit or participating in things that harm people.

这很难。

That's hard.

真的很难。

It is really hard.

而且，这也是工作的一部分。

And also, it's just part of the work.

这就像我的土星突然跳出来，说：抱歉，这真的很难。

That's my Saturn jumping out of just being like, Sorry, it's hard.

你只能去做。

You just have to do it.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，过去几周我特别留意并清晰地看到一种脱节：人们认为，比如，只要自己没有主动做过他们认为是种族主义的事情，自己就不是种族主义者，却没意识到自己仍然在一种系统性种族主义的框架下运作；他们对这种框架缺乏认知或觉察，本身就在某种程度上参与其中，哪怕他们自己并没有有意识地成为你所认为的那种种族主义者或类似的人。

Well, mean, and that's something I've been really cognizant of and seen really vividly over the past couple of weeks is the disconnect where people think, for example, that if they don't actively have not done things that they consider to be racist or that they're not racist themselves, that they don't realize that they're still operating in a framework where systemic racism exists and their lack of acknowledgment or realization of that is itself sort of participatory, is participating in that in some way to some low extent even if they themselves are not consciously what you might consider to be a racist person or what have you.

对。

Right.

实际上，我最近和一个朋友聊过这个，就是种族主义和白人至上主义之间是有区别的，其中一个关键区别是，在一个种族主义社会中长大，你某种程度上就是种族主义者。

And that actually, I was talking about this with a friend recently of just like there's a difference between racism and white supremacy, And one of the key differences is on an individual level, if you grow up inside of a racist society, you are some level of racist.

就是这样。

It just is.

我在以各种方式成为种族主义者，而我正不断梳理这些。

I'm racist in ways that I'm constantly sifting through.

你理所当然地接受了一些基于系统性、久远的种族前提的东西，而在某些情况下，你甚至没有完全意识到这些。

You're taking for granted things that are based on systemic, like long ago racial premises that you don't even fully realize in some instances.

是的，没错。

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

我在某些方面从种族主义中获益。

And I benefit from racism in certain ways.

但我也在很多方面受到种族主义的伤害。

I also am harmed by racism in a lot of ways.

但我不是白人至上主义者，对吧？

But I'm not a white supremacist, right?

成为种族主义者或带有种族主义倾向，与成为白人至上主义者是两回事，至少我是这么理解的。

Being a racist or being racist and being white supremacist are kind of two different things at least in the way that I approach it.

明确的白人至上主义是一种暴力的、积极施暴的形式。

Being explicitly white supremacist is the violent, actively violent form.

但种族主义可以非常微妙、阴险，而且极难彻底根除。

But racism can be very subtle and insidious and very, very, very difficult to pull all the way out.

回头审视的过程需要坚韧、毅力，以及在处理这些议题时——无论是特权、边缘化、价值感还是自我worth的问题——对自己保持善意与同理心。

Going back is just like being tenacious, having perseverance, and having kindness and compassion for yourself through the process of working through any of these things like any of the privileges, any of the marginalizations, the deservingness question, the worthiness question.

与此相反的一面是把那些负面的东西剔除出来，但同时也要培育你希望拥有的东西，这在某种程度上是更令人愉快的部分。

Kind of on the flip side of that, there's the pulling stuff out but there's also the growing the things that you want and that's the more enjoyable part to a certain degree.

比如，你积极消除工作中和生活中存在的阶级歧视，那么这个过程的一部分就是建立更好的结构，帮助人们，或者支持那些已经在致力于改善人们获取必要资源途径的组织。

It's still work but say you are actively eradicating classism from how you work and operate in the world and then part of that process is like building better structures for people to or contributing to organizations that are already doing this work of building better access to necessary resources.

这更像是一种——是的，我正在做一件不仅有益于自己、也惠及他人的事。

That's a lot more like, Yeah, I'm doing something that is benefiting more than myself.

而不是为了证明自己很好才去做，而是因为你希望人们能拥有好的东西。

And not doing it because it's proof that you're good, but doing it because you want good things for people.

是的，这很有道理。

Yeah, that makes sense.

这不仅仅是为了表现自己有多好，因为如果你还在质疑这一点，那就说明你在‘应得’与‘不应得’的问题上仍需继续努力。

It's not just a performance to prove that you're good because if you're still questioning that then that's still something that you need to work on in terms of the deservedness, undeservedness level.

是的，正是如此。

Yes, exactly.

而且，这并不意味着你从此就彻底解决了这个问题。

And again, it's not like you're just done with it forever.

也许你在某个方面弄明白了，处理并消化了它，它不再是你生活中这个领域的强烈影响。

It's like maybe you figure it out in one area and you process it, you digest it out, it's no longer the strong influence in this one area of your life.

但过了一年、一周、一个月，或者其他什么时候，另一个问题又出现了，让你意识到：哦，这里又有一个领域，我的自我价值感需要一些帮助。

And then in a year or a week or a month or something, something else crops up where you're like, Oh, here's another area of life where my sense of worthiness could use some help.

有时候，这种觉察会因为看到自己对他人某种特质的评判而触发，而这种特质你自身也拥有。

And sometimes that can be triggered by perceiving and watching ourselves judge someone else for something like a quality that we also have.

对。

Right.

但是

But

这涉及到这项工作的细致入微的问题或组成部分。

that's getting into the fine tooth combs question or component of this work.

这是一个持续的过程。

It's an ongoing process.

所以，在我的网站上，我提供了为我的NORWAC演讲制作的两份PDF文件，可以免费获取。

So on my website, I have the two PDFs that I created for my NORWAC talk, they're available for free.

但其中一份是关于如何实践这一方法的练习。

But one of them is exercises to engage with this practice.

我真正想做的是帮助人们培养大脑中那些不那么容易执着于负面信息的部分。

And I really wanted to focus on helping people grow parts of their brain that aren't the parts of our brain that really like to cling to negative stuff.

因此，这包括对你自己的生命图表做出极其积极的描述，因为当我们将这一点回归到自我关怀的层面时，图表能向我们展示我们以各种方式有多么了不起。

And so that includes making really, really wildly positive delineations about your own chart because when it comes back shrinking this back to the self care component, one of the things that the chart can show us is the ways that we're incredible in some way shape or form.

但很容易只是执着于图表中那些证明我们很差劲的地方。

But it can be really easy to just cling to the things in our chart that prove that we suck.

刻意练习，尤其是与另一位精通占星的人一起，做出极其积极的星盘解读，这会是一个非常有趣的脑力训练，有助于培养一种积极的韧性，从而帮助你继续完成更艰难的工作——去正视那些可能不太令人愉快的自我或你在世界中的位置。

Deliberately practicing especially with another astrologically literate person creating wildly positive delineations can be a really fun brain exercise that helps create kind of like a positive fortitude almost which then helps you keep doing the harder work of seeing the things that are maybe less savory about yourself or your place in the world.

是的，这很棒。

Yeah, that's great.

这就完全回到了主题，我认为最终也完整地呼应了你为何称之为激进的自我关怀，因为你必须深入所有事物的根本，有时甚至需要把它们挖出来，才能完全识别出你生活中那些被你视作理所当然的、好坏参半的东西。

So that brings it all the way back to And I think finally brings it full circle in terms of the topic and why you call it radical self care because you have to get to the underlying roots of everything and in some instances like dig them up in order to fully identify the things that you're taking for granted in your life that are both good and bad.

但最终，重点是你能将占星术作为一种自我关怀的形式，这种关怀不仅仅是身体上的，更是心理、情感和精神层面的，深刻而深远。

But ultimately, the point is that you can use astrology as a form of self care, which is not just physical, but also mental and emotional and spiritual in a very deep and profound way.

这正是你在这里所追求的。

That's ultimately what you're going for here.

你的网站上有一些练习表，一些PDF资料，供人们开始采取这些步骤。

And you have some exercise sheets on your website, some PDFs for people to start taking some of those steps.

是的，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.