占星咨询：如何最大化占星解读的收获

对。

Right.

但有些会。

But some will.

我知道。

I know that

我认为大多数咨询前都有一些协商。

I think there's some negotiation in most consultations ahead of time.

是的，确实需要一些协商。

Yeah, some negotiation for sure.

但你知道，有些咨询的开放性更强一些。

But you know, just some are more open ended than others.

比如，我根本没有所谓的星座出生图解读。

Like for instance, I just I don't have like birth chart reading.

我只问：你想聊些什么？

I have what would you like to talk about?

你最想重点讨论什么？

What would you like to most focus on?

然后人们得写上几段话，我知道确实有不少人会这么做。

And then people have to write, you know, a few paragraphs, and I know that a number of people do have that.

是的。

Yeah.

但也要平衡另一点：别写一篇十页的论文，也不要走向另一个极端——在最初的邮件里完全不说明你想讨论什么、期待什么。

And to balance out the other thing about don't write a 10 page essay, don't do the other extreme, and not state if it's open to state in your initial email what you wanna focus on and what you're looking for.

嗯。

Mhmm.

尽量保持简洁，写上几段简短的话就好。

Just try to keep it concise to like a few short paragraphs.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我觉得如果你这么做，就能清晰地表达你的期望，这样占星师如果能胜任的话，就能知道该用哪些技巧来提前准备，因为有些占星师会在咨询前花时间做准备。

And I think if you do that, then you'll be able to state your expectations clearly so the astrologer can if they can do that, can know what techniques to apply in preparing because some astrologers spend time preparing for the consultation ahead of time.

这就是为什么对某些占星师来说，提前知道你想关注什么很重要。

That's one of the reasons why it's important for some astrologers to know ahead of time what you wanna focus on.

因为比如我，每次咨询前都会花至少一小时准备，运用某些技巧，写下一些笔记，应用特定的时间技术，并在不同时间段旁做标注。

Because for example, for me, I would always spend at least an hour of prep for each consultation, and I would apply certain techniques and write out certain notes and apply certain timing techniques, and I would write notes next to different periods Mhmm.

然后提前把这份材料以PDF形式发给客户，这样他们看到的和我看到的一样，我们可以一起讨论。

And send that to the client as like a PDF ahead of time so that they are looking at the same thing that I am, and we can go over it together.

所以，如果某些占星师会做任何准备，那么让你明确想关注的内容，就是非常关键的一环。

So some astrologers, if they do any prep, that's actually a really important piece to give them some context for what you wanna focus on.

嗯。

Mhmm.

否则，他们可能会关注你生活中与你实际想探讨的内容完全无关的其他方面。

Otherwise, they may focus on some completely different area of your life that has no relation to what you actually wanna look into or talk about in that consultation.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当然。

Definitely.

如果只是在咨询过程中临时提问，他们可能能当场调出相关信息，但如果原本需要提前准备的内容，临时发挥的效果可能不会太好。

And they may or may not be able to kind of pull it up on the fly if you sort of just ask within the consultation, but it probably won't be as good if it's something that they ordinarily have to put prep time into.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

有些占星师确实可以即兴发挥。

Mean, some astrologers can just pull up on the fly.

嗯。

Mhmm.

在一定程度上，每位占星师都需要适应这种能力，并且最终会做到。

And to a certain extent, each astrologer has to get used to being able to do that and will.

我认识一些占星师，我觉得里克·莱文说他从不提前准备。

And there's some astrologers I know, I think Rick Levine says he doesn't do any prep.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但他已经做了四十年的占星咨询了，你知道，他懂得怎么做，也有一些占星师接受过这方面的更多训练。

But he's been doing consultations for forty And years at this you know, he he knows how and there's some astrologers that have also had more training in that.

比如达根·贝斯特，他多次上过这个播客，曾经在一家公司工作，那家公司提供电话占星服务，客户按分钟付费。

So for example, Dagan Best, who's been on the podcast many times, used to work for one of those companies where it was like a phone line and then then clients would call up, and they were being charged by the minute.

所以他们会直接进入状态，嗯。

So they would just like go Mhmm.

一旦客户打进电话，你就必须立刻排出星盘，并立即运用各种必要的技巧来回答他们的问题。

And you would have to cast the chart immediately once they got on the call and immediately start applying whatever techniques are necessary to answer their question.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这和另一种方式不同，需要一些不同的训练，所有占星师都会逐渐适应，但有些人可能更擅长即兴应对，而有些人则更倾向于提前准备。

So that's different and requires a little bit different training, and it's something that all astrologers get used to, but there might be some that have more or less proficiency with working on the fly versus some who might prepare to have more prep time.

尤其是新手占星师、年轻占星师，或者职业生涯还处于早期阶段的人，通常会比经验丰富的占星师花更多时间做准备。

And especially newer astrologers or younger astrologers or ones that are still earlier in their career may take more prep time ahead of time than astrologers have been around longer.

是的。

Yeah.

或者根据人们问的问题，可能就需要他们提前准备，或者他们有准备时间的话，你会得到更好的回答。

Or depending on what people are asking, it just might require it or you might get a better response if they do have prep time.

比如问五年后的事情。

Like asking about like something five years from now.

他们可能在咨询过程中无法立刻回答出来，你知道的。

Like they may not have that off the top of their head, you know, during the consult.

是的。

Yeah.

要计算次限法、主限法、行运等等，通常需要几分钟时间。

It takes like a few minutes to like do the secondary progressions or to calculate the profections or the transits and everything else.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这取决于你是否希望你的占星师提前准备好这些信息，还是你愿意浪费掉七十五分钟里的五分钟左右，看着他们手忙脚乱地现场计算。

And it's a matter of if you're a you want your astrologer to have that ready to go ahead of time or if you, you know, wanna waste several five minutes of that seventy five minutes that you have having them try to like fumble to like calculate it on the fly.

嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且，提前充分说明你想重点讨论的内容也很重要，比如写上几段话，你可以举例说，话题是‘关系’。

And something about asking or sort of like explaining well enough too ahead of time what you'd like to focus on, which is a good few paragraphs, is like you could say for instance the talk topic of relationships.

你可以说‘关系’，但如果你说得更具体一点，比如‘我的婚姻岌岌可危，我不知道该怎么办’，效果可能会更好。

You could just say relationships, but it's probably gonna be a little bit better if you say, my marriage is on the rocks and I'm trying to decide what to do, or you know, something a little more specific like that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

或者‘我七年没谈恋爱了，想知道我是否还能遇到下一段感情。’

Or I haven't been in a relationship since seven years ago, and I'm wondering if I'm gonna find another one.

或者提供一点背景信息，其实不需要太多字，但能让占星师更清楚如何调整方向，或者他们该关注什么。

Or you know, a little bit more background, which still doesn't need to take very many words, but just so the astrologer kinda knows a little bit more how to gear it or what they're looking for.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我认为这引出了一个重要的建议或规则。

So that I think that takes us into one of the things though in terms of one of the rules or one of the good pieces of advice.

你不必严格遵守，但别试图考验占星师。

Like, you don't have to follow it, but don't try to test the astrologer.

嗯。

Mhmm.

向占星师提供信息，能让他们更好地理解你的星盘，从而更准确地解读你的星盘，使其更贴近你的生活，同时也能提高他们做出预测的准确性。

Giving the astrologer information provides them with context about the chart that is gonna allow them to do a better and more accurate job of both interpreting your chart and making it relevant to your life, as well as making any predictions that they're gonna make.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为进行占星预测的过程，不仅包括对星盘和星体运行的分析，也包括你对一个人迄今为止人生轨迹的了解——了解得越多，就越能推断出未来的发展方向。

Because part of the process of doing astrological astrological predictions is is the analysis of the chart and the transits, but also the more you know about the trajectory of the life up to this point, the more you can then plot out, like, where it's gonna go after the present time and into the future.

嗯。

Mhmm.

最近在我的希腊占星课程中就出现了这样一个例子，当时我们讨论比尔·盖茨最近宣布与结婚长达二十七年的妻子梅琳达·盖茨离婚的事。

And this came up recently with, like, a student in my Hellenistic course where there's a discussion about Bill Gates and his recent announcement of, like, a divorce from Melinda Gates from his wife of, like, twenty seven years.

嗯。

Mhmm.

土星正在经过他的星盘，因为我曾在我的课程中用这个作为星盘案例，我想我的书里也有提到。

And Saturn is like going through his because I've used that as a as a chart example in my course and in my I think it's in my book as well.

目前土星正位于他的第八宫，但我说过的一点是，我认为婚姻很可能是在土星经过他的第七宫（摩羯座）期间破裂的，因为他上升星座是巨蟹座，过去几年一直如此。

And Saturn's in his eighth house right now, but one of the things that I said is that I thought the marriage probably broke up while Saturn was transiting through his seventh house through Capricorn because he's Cancer rising over the past few years.

现在他们只是公开宣布将正式开始处理财产分割等事宜。

And it's just they're sort of making it public now that they're going to actually go through the process of splitting up whatever assets are involved.

最近有报道确认，她早在2019年就首次咨询过律师。

And I think that was actually confirmed recently that, there's a report that came out that she first visited a lawyer in like 2019.

是的。

Right.

所以有学生问，我们有没有办法判断，土星经过他第七宫的这个相位预示的是离婚，而不是其他情况，比如配偶去世？

So one of the questions that the student said was, you know, is there a way that we could have told that that Saturn transit through his seventh house would coincide with divorce as opposed to other scenarios like the death of a spouse or

嗯。

Mhmm.

类似那样的情况。

Something like that.

我回答的一部分是，尤其是我们刚才在讨论单次行运时，答案是否定的。

And part of my answer is, especially we were just talking about looking at that one transits, part of the answer is is no.

这在很大程度上取决于生活的背景以及到那时为止的发展轨迹。

It partially and and very largely depends on the context of the life and what the trajectory has been up to that point.

是的。

Mhmm.

因为通常事情不会凭空出现，有时更早时期的行运——当土星处于该周期的早期阶段时，就已经为这种趋势埋下了伏笔。

Because usually, stuff doesn't often come out of nowhere, sometimes earlier versions of that transit where Saturn was in earlier versions of that cycle would have set up the trajectory.

例如，我读到一个故事，说在2013年左右，他们曾为是否共同撰写一份通讯发生过激烈争吵，当时他是主要作者，而她希望与他共同署名，但他拒绝了。

So for example, I was reading a story about how in like 2013, they had like a major fight about co authoring a newsletter together where it was like he was the primary author and she wanted to to co author it with him and he said no.

他们为此争执不休，她说他们几乎因此分手，但后来双方有所妥协，她开始撰写副文章，第二年两人就共同署名发表了。

And they fought about it and she said that they almost broke up or something, but then eventually there was some leeway and she started writing like a sub article and then they co authored it the next year.

是的。

Mhmm.

而文章中提到，那时土星正经过天蝎座，这正是他的土星回归期——土星回到其本命位置，同时也激活了他第七宫的守护星土星。

And that would have been that time frame that it said in the article was when Saturn was transiting through Scorpio, which would have been his Saturn return, when Saturn was returning back to its natal position and also activating his Saturn, is the ruler of his seventh house.

嗯。

Mhmm.

现在我们看到，七年或八年之后，当土星进入水瓶座——下一个固定星座时，我们看到了那个相位的旺相四分相。

And now we see, you know, seven or eight years later, we see the, like, waxing square of that now that Saturn is in Aquarius, the next fixed sign

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后他们分手了。

And it's them breaking up.

对。

Right.

所以，如果你留意这类事情，我们多少能看出来。

So we can kind of tell if you're looking at things like that.

如果我们再往前追溯七年，那时候很可能也出现过其他问题，考验了他们的关系，让他们质疑这段关系是否还能继续下去。

If we'd taken that back even further in seven years before that, there was probably some other issue that came up that tested their relationship and made them question whether it was gonna continue, whether they're gonna stay in it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

再往前七年，可能也发生过类似的事情。

And seven years before that, there may have been something similar.

因此，占星预测的一部分就是占星师与客户坐下来，梳理他们的生活历程，找出人生轨迹。

So part of astrological prediction is the astrologer sitting down with the client and going through their chronology and figuring out the life trajectory.

一旦你这样做，并识别出某些模式，以及反复与特定事件对应的行星时

And once you do that and you identify certain patterns and certain planets that coincide with certain types of events over and over again

嗯。

Mhmm.

你通常就能做出推断，但需要背景信息才能做出准确的预测，或者至少有背景信息的预测会比没有背景信息更准确。

You can usually project that out, but it requires the context in order to be able to make an accurate prediction or at least you'll make a more accurate prediction with context than you would without.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

因为某些相位或占星时间点往往对应着某种原型体验，所以如果没有背景信息，你可能无法准确说出具体会发生什么。

Because there is an archetypal experience around certain transits or certain different timing things with regard to astrology, and so you might not be able to say nearly as specifically what it will be, without the context.

我总是觉得，这就像你去诊所，医生手里有你的化验结果，但你却不告诉他们你实际的症状是什么。

And I always like to think of it as though you're going into a doctor's office and they have like a list of your lab results, but you refuse to tell them like what you're actually experiencing symptom wise.

这有点类似的情况，

It's kind of a similar thing where

对。

Right.

你想想，为什么不能

You're like, why don't

你猜猜？

you guess?

对。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

这有点类似，你

It's kind of similar to You're

一个医生。

a doctor.

你上过医学院。

You went to medical school.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

而且情况类似。

And it's similar.

就像，对吧？

Like, right?

你有一系列数值。

You have a list of values.

你有一系列数字。

You have a list of numbers.

这有点像使用星盘和行星运行轨迹以及你所采用的任何时间点。

It's kind of similar to having a chart and transits and whatever timing you're using.

你可以不听客户讲述就推断出事情的轮廓，但这会花费你更多时间，而且在试图准确弄清发生了什么时，准确性会更低。

You can get the shape of things without hearing from the client, but it's gonna take you a lot longer and you're gonna be less precise trying to figure out exactly what's going on.

是的。

Yeah.

因为你得让他们像夏洛克·福尔摩斯一样，通过观察你的脸色苍白之类的情况，或者从你手臂上的针孔痕迹推断出你其实正在与药物成瘾作斗争，是个海洛因使用者，而不是……

Because you're gonna make them act like they're Sherlock Holmes in order to like track down and see like by your facial, you know, paleness or something like that or you have track track marks on your arm that you're actually like a you've been struggling with drug addiction and you're a heroin user instead of Mhmm.

主动去找他们，说：‘医生，我是个海洛因使用者，正面临成瘾问题。’

Coming to them and being like, you know, doc, I'm a I'm a heroin user and I'm struggling with addiction issues.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你知道的？

You know?

你能帮我解决这个问题吗？

Can you help me with that?

或者类似的情况。

Or something like that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

占星师也是如此，他们被期望推断出每个星盘位置的具体表现，但每个位置其实都有多种可能的表现形式。

And the same with the astrologer as if they're supposed to infer what the precise manifestations of each of the placements are when there's a range of different manifestations for each one of them.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

是的。

Yeah.

因为如果你去看医生，可能会得到多种不同的诊断，但这些诊断的某些实验室指标却可能是相同的。

Because if you go into a doctor, like, you could get a bunch of different diagnoses that would still have some of the same lab values.

所以这有点类似那样。

So it's it's a bit similar to that.

是的。

Yeah.

所以没错。

So yeah.

我的意思是，比尔·盖茨的土星相位，只是土星经过自我第七宫，最基础的就是关系上的种种困难。

I mean, the the Bill Gates transit, it's just Saturn transiting through the self seventh house and the most basic just difficulties with relationships.

比如说，作为这个相位的广泛原型，在这个范畴下，关系上的困难可能有多种不同类型。

Let's say as like the broad archetype of that transit, And under that rubric, there could have been many different, you know, types of difficulties with relationships.

但显然对他们来说，就是一段关系的破裂和终结。

But evidently for them, it was, you know, the dissolving of a relationship and and the end of a relationship.

嗯。

Mhmm.

或者就像占星释放中的关系断裂，那也是一个重大转折点。

Or even like say with zodiacal releasing with the loosing of the bond, like that's a major turning point.

但这个转折点可能是走向关系的分离，也可能是你之前单身，这时则可能步入婚姻。

But whether that's a turning point towards like, you know, like a separation of a relationship versus if you've been single up to that point, it might be getting married.

这个转折点的具体含义，取决于之前所处的情境。

It can be a very different turning point depending on what the context is before that point.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

所以情境很重要。

So context is important.

我知道有些人对占星术持怀疑态度，即使你完全不信，也想看看占星师能做些什么，因为每个人内心都有一部分渴望被它打动。

You know, I I understand that there's some people that might be skeptics of astrology or even if you're fully skeptical, you wanna see what the astrologer can do and you there's kind of a part of everyone that wants to be impressed by it.

我理解这一点，也承认这种心态有其存在的空间，但如果你只是抱着这种目的，最终你从咨询中获得的收获可能会比预期少。

So I understand that and there's a place for that, but just understand if that's what you're trying to do, you're probably in the end gonna get less out of the consultation than you might have otherwise.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且有时候，即使你给了对方背景信息，你仍然可能实现你的目标，因为如果他们对你的人生有更充分的了解，他们所做的任何预测都会更基于你的星盘和现实中的潜在结果。

And sometimes even if you give if you give the person context, you may still be able to accomplish what you're seeking out to do because if they have better context for your life, any predictions they do make are gonna be much more grounded in, the birth chart and in actually realistic potential outcomes.

因此，如果他们掌握了你的人生背景，就可能做出更成功、更精确和更准确的预测，这实际上能达到与展示占星术有效性和预测能力相同的目的，而不是那种什么都不告诉你、只让他们猜测你的人生和性格的做法。

So they may actually be able to make much more successful and much more precise and accurate predictions if they have the context of your life, which would actually serve the same purpose as a demonstration of astrology being valid and useful and having predictive capabilities of some sort versus, you know, the approach of just trying to get them to guess what your life and personality is like based on not telling them anything.

所以，那其实是最糟糕的情况。

So that's actually worst case scenario.

这可能是最没有成效的方式了——只是面无表情地坐着，不向他们讲述你的生活，也不提供任何反馈，因为最重要的一点是，占星咨询本质上应该是你作为客户与占星师之间的对话。

That is probably the least productive thing is the just sitting stone faced with no talking to them about your life and no no feedback or anything else because one of the most important points is that an astrological consultation is primarily supposed to be a dialogue between you the client and the astrologer

嗯。

Mhmm.

这种来回的对话，正是整个过程中非常关键的一部分。

And that back and forth, and that that piece of dialogue is actually a really crucial part of the entire process.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当然。

Definitely.

我认为，当你刚开始接触占星学时，很容易无法完全理解这一点。

And I think that's something that's easy to not fully understand earlier on when you're getting into astrology.

你可能会觉得星盘本身应该能透露出更多内容，但其实这更像是一场对话。

You sort of expect that more should be coming out of just the chart itself, but it really is a dialogue.

而且确实如此。

And yeah.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

所以不要说得太少。

So don't talk too little.

另一方面，也不要说得太多，因为客户常犯的另一个主要错误是：你只有七十五分钟。

Flip side of that that spectrum is don't talk too much because the other major stumbling block and major mistake that some clients can make is you've only got seventy five minutes.

有些人会一直不停地讲自己的生活，嗯。

Some people will just talk and talk and talk and talk about their life Mhmm.

而且没有给占星师任何时间或空间来从占星角度进行解读。

And not give any time or room for the astrologer to actually say anything about it astrologically.

这实际上确实是一个有时会发生的真实情况：客户会过多地谈论自己的生活经历，以至于不让占星师主导对话——当然，占星师也不必完全主导，但理想情况下，我们希望双方的对话比例至少是五五开，而不是最糟糕的情况——客户占了90%的说话时间，而占星师只剩下10%或几分钟时间来谈论星盘，然后咨询就结束了，客户却感到不满意，嗯。

Like, this is actually a legitimate thing that sometimes happens is the client will talk so much about their life experience that they won't sort of let the astrologer lead or the astrologer doesn't entirely have to lead, but ideally, we're talking about at least like a fifty fifty thing here rather than Let's say worst case scenario, the client talks 90% of the time, and then the astrologer gets just like 10% or a few minutes to say anything about the chart, then the consultation's over, and the client is unhappy Mhmm.

觉得这次咨询没得到多少收获。

Feeling like they didn't get much from it.

但原因在于，他们花大部分时间在说话，却没有意识到自己说得太多，而没有认真倾听对自身星盘的实际解读。

But the reason for that is that they ended up spending most of the time talking and weren't conscious about the fact that they were talking more than listening to an actual interpretation of their chart.

没错。

Right.

这可能会有点棘手，因为当然，客户能够向别人倾诉自己的处境是有一定价值的。

And that can be tricky because, you know, of course, there's some value in the client being able to just like talk to someone about what's going on.

但占星师不应当仅仅扮演咨询师或倾诉对象的角色。

But the astrologer isn't supposed to be only a counselor or a sounding board.

我的意思是，如果客户就是想要那样，那也没关系。

I mean, if if the client wants that, that's fine.

他们只是需要明白，自己是在用这段时间来倾诉，对吧。

They just have to understand that they're using the time for that Right.

而且不要感到失望，对吧。

And and not be disappointed Mhmm.

因为有时候，当时间到了，占星师会陷入一种尴尬的境地，

When because sometimes then the astrologer can be put in an awkward position of like the time is up

对。

and Right.

我们必须结束了，对吧。

And we we need to end this Mhmm.

有些占星师无法延长咨询时间，或者超时，对吧。

And we can't some astrologers can't, like, extend it or go long or Mhmm.

即使你多付钱，他们也可能后面有其他客户，所以必须在那个时间点结束，或者到预约时间为止。

Even if you pay them extra, they may have another client lined up after that, so they have to end it at that point or an appointment.

所以，如果你确实想这么做，也没关系。

So it's fine if you do want to do that.

你只需要明白，你当时用时间就是做这个的。

You just have to understand that that's what you're using your time for then.

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果因为这个原因，占星师没能给出更多解读，这并不是他们的错。

And it's not the astrologer's fault if they aren't able to get as much interpretation in as a result of that.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

因为这也会让占星师陷入一点尴尬的境地：我该不该打断你，确保你能听到我真正想告诉你的内容？还是说，这正是你想要的咨询方式？

Because it can also put the astrologer in a little bit of an awkward position of like, well, should I interrupt to make sure that they hear the things that I actually can tell them, or is this what they want from the consultation?

是的。

Yeah.

我偶尔会遇到一些人，事后说：哦，我真希望当时少说点，因为回听录音时发现，基本上都是我在讲。

So and I have occasionally had, you know, people say afterwards like, oh, I wished I hadn't talked as much when I listened back through the recording because it was mostly me talking.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以要意识到这一点。

So just be conscious of that.

有时候人们这样做只是因为紧张，

And sometimes people do that just because they're nervous and

他们

they're

正在和一个陌生人交谈，占星师或客户在和一位陌生人占星师交谈，或者他们心中有很多事，只是需要找个人梳理一下，这也没关系。

talking to a stranger who the astrologer or the client is talking to the astrologer who's a stranger or or maybe they have a lot on their mind and they just did need to process it with someone and that's fine.

进去之前要想清楚你想要什么。

Just think about it going into it what you wanna get.

而且，通常来说，尽量在这两者之间找到平衡——既不说得太多，也不说得太少——是最有效的方式。

And, you know, ideally most of the time trying to find a balance between those two is the most effective thing between not talking too much and not talking too too little.

当然。

Definitely.

好的。

Alright.

那么，测试占星师，还有别的吗？

So testing the astrologer, anything else?

没有。

No.

我的意思是，我认为不测试占星师的另一点在于，我们都来自不同的背景，所以这不仅仅是你来找占星师时的特定情境，甚至还包括你自身的背景是什么。

I mean, I think the only other piece about not testing the astrologer is that we all come from different backgrounds, so it's not just the immediate specific context of what you're coming to the astrologer for, but it's even like what kind of background am I coming from.

你可能会遇到某人的第九宫，而他们可能正在做博士后，或者可能刚第一次努力上大学。

You you could have something going on with someone's ninth house, and they could be doing a postdoc, or they could be just struggling to go undergrad for the first time.

你知道，你依然会谈论第九宫相关的事情，但我也偶尔遇到过与工作相关的情况，比如有人生活在非常偏远的地区，根本没多少工作机会，这和生活在大都市、拥有高等学位的人谈论职业时机的背景是完全不同的。

You know, and so you're still gonna be talking about ninth house things, but I've had that also occasionally with job things where someone is living like in an area that's very isolated and so there aren't many jobs at all, and that's a very different context to be talking about career timing versus like someone living in a metropolitan city and like having advanced degrees and things like that.

所以这就像，你知道的，星盘可能像乌龟的星盘，也可能像人的星盘，即使所有星盘都……

So it's kinda like, you know, the chart can be like the chart for a turtle or the chart for a person, even if it's even all the if all the charts

嘿，那是我的台词。

Hey, that's my line.

但即使所有星盘都是针对人的，我们依然来自非常不同的成长背景和生活经历。

But even if all the charts are for people, we still all come from very different backgrounds and contexts growing up, and life experience wise.

对。

Right.

所以。

So

真的，用你自己的比喻。

Really, Get your own analogies.

乌龟。

Turtle.

乌龟的比喻是我的。

The turtle analogy is mine.

石头？

The rock?

也许是一块石头？

Maybe a rock?

那不是一个有生命的物体。

That's not an animate object.

显然，这是一个糟糕的比喻。

Obviously, that's that's a terrible analogy.

一只老鼠。

A mouse.

我会用老鼠来打比方。

I'll use a mouse.

是的。

Yeah.

但我们都——我的意思是，作为一名占星师，你会学到另一方面，你知道，你对人们所处的环境、他们过去经历的生活机会等的假设可能非常不同，这会影响你对明年或后年时机的判断。

So but we all I I have I mean, and that's something you learn as an astrologer on the flip side, that, you know, your own assumptions about, where people are coming from on average in terms of life opportunities and past experiences they already have on their belt and things like that can be very different, and that will shape like what you say about like timing for the next year or two or something like that.

对。

Yeah.

让我们看看展示宫位含义的图表。

Like let's look at our diagram that shows the significations of the houses.

那么，我们的第九宫含义是什么？

So what are our what are our ninth house significations?

旅行、外国事物、教育、宗教。

Travel, foreign things, education, religion.

所以，有人可能在第九宫有星体落位，当他们经历土星相位时，这会表现为教育成为他们此时的主要关注点。

So somebody may have placements in the ninth house and that manifests as Like let's say they're going through a Saturn transit and it manifests as education is like a major focus for them at this time.

嗯。

Mhmm.

另一个人可能在土星相位期间，生活在外国成为两三年内的主要焦点。

Another person may have a Saturn transit and living in a foreign country is like a major focus for two or three years during that time.

嗯。

Mhmm.

还有人可能在这一相位期间经历宗教皈依之类的事情。

Another person may have that transit and they're going through like a religious conversion or something like that at that time.

是的。

Mhmm.

所以，同样的或相似的行运或星盘配置，可以通过多种不同的方式显现，这些方式都属于同一个原型范畴，正如我们所说的那样；但要能够更具体地阐述这一点，尤其是在预测未来时，了解背景至关重要。

So there's different ways that the same or a similar transit or chart placement can manifest in a variety of different ways that all fall under the same archetypal rubric or archetype as we say, but it it really helps to know the context of that in order to be able to make more specific statements about it, especially in terms of projecting that out in the future.

是的。

Mhmm.

当然。

Definitely.

占星咨询就是如此，我们必须深入探讨这一点。

And that is what an astrological consultation is, and and we need to really drill down on that.

占星咨询是一种对话和互动，是第一宫与第七宫之间的双向交流：客户讲述自己的生活，占星师则结合星盘进行关联，从而更好地理解某些星盘配置。

An astrological consultation is a dialogue and a back and forth, a first house, seventh house exchange between two parties where the client says something about their life, the astrologer looks at the chart and connects that with the chart, and that helps the astrologer understand better certain chart placements.

然后占星师向客户反馈解释，是的。

Then the astrologer says something back to the client in interpreting that Mhmm.

这种反馈会以某种方式触动客户，可能唤醒他们记忆中或认为相关的某些内容，接着他们再向占星师表达出来。

That hits the client in a certain way and may unlock certain things that they then remember or think are relevant, which they then state to the astrologer.

然后占星师再次查看星盘，这进一步澄清了他们在星盘中看到的某些内容，并将这些内容反馈给客户。

And then the astrologer looks at the chart again, and that further clarifies something that they're seeing in the chart, which they then state to the client.

这正是理想中整个七十五分钟所发生的过程——你们两人正在共同更好地理解生活，尤其是客户的生活中，通过咨询中的对话与互动，逐步获得越来越清晰、深入的理解。

And that's the process really ideally that's happening that entire seventy five minutes is the two of you are coming to understand your life better, the client's life better, and getting an increasingly clearer and clearer picture and understanding of it based on the back and forth and the dialogue and the exchange that's occurring within the context of the consultation.

嗯。

Mhmm.

一旦你作为客户理解了这一点，明白咨询中真正该发生的是什么，许多事情就会豁然开朗，你会理解我们提到的这些优缺点，明白如何最恰当地把握分寸，既不过度强调，也不忽视某些部分，因为这需要——

And once you understand that, as the client and understand that that's what's actually supposed to be happening in the consultation, then it kinda clears up a lot of things and you understand some of these pros and cons that we're mentioning of the more optimal the most optimal way to do that and not, you know, overemphasizing or underemphasizing certain parts of that because it's Mhmm.

为了达到最佳效果，大多数时候这种平衡必须相当均衡。

It needs to be pretty even in order to work the most optimally most of the time.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

我认为，只有当你经历过多次咨询，或者作为咨询师或客户长期参与过咨询后，你才会明白：真正的关键在于对话本身。

And I think that's something you only learn if you've had consultations or if you have done consultations for a while on either side as either party is like, oh, the dialogue is actually where it's at.

这不仅仅在这里。

It's not just here.

让我给你一些信息。

Let me give you information.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

好的。

Alright.

话虽如此，这仍然是一次七十五分钟的咨询。

So that being said, it's still one seventy five minute thing.

这只是一次咨询。

It's just one consultation.

你不可能涵盖所有内容，所以你需要调整自己对能覆盖多少内容的期望，并优先考虑对你来说重要的部分。

You're not gonna be able go over everything, so you have to moderate your own expectations about how much you can cover and prioritize what's important to you to cover.

也许你确实有一份包含十件不同事情的长清单，但最好能将它们按从最重要到最不重要的顺序排列，然后尽量在有限时间内覆盖你能处理的部分，并理解你可能只能完成其中的五件事。

Maybe you do have a long list of 10 different things, but it'd be best if you prioritized them from most to least important, and then just try to cover what you can in that time and understand that you may only be able to get through, let's say, five of those things.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

我认为与此相关的是，当你去找占星师时，即使只是进行一次普通的星盘解读，那也只是对你星盘的一种解读。

I think kind of related to that, it's important to know that when you go and talk with an astrologer, even if you're having a birth chart reading and it's just stated as a birth chart reading generically, it's going to be one take on your chart.

它并不是永恒不变的终极答案。

It's not going to be the be and end all forever.

就像你的星盘并没有一个唯一固定的含义，甚至单个星盘位置也没有一个固定不变的含义，因为你的生活会随着时间推移而变化，不同的星盘位置可能会在不同时期以不同方式显现，甚至在同一时期以多种方式同时显现。

Like, it's there's not a once and done certain single meaning of your chart or even a certain single meaning of a single chart placement because your life evolves over time, you know, and so different placements can manifest in different specific ways over time or even multiple ways at a single time in your life.

而且你确实

And also you Do

你有没有相关的例子呢？

you have any examples of that by chance?

不，完全不是。

No, not at all.

我们以前在播客中多次提到过，但曾经有一位年轻的占星师，我给他做了一次解读，谈到某些星盘配置是相关的，他却说：不，这些在我生活中完全没有意义，他并没有直接说我是个糟糕的占星师。

Not that we haven't mentioned many times before on the podcast, but there was this this younger astrologer once that I gave a reading to, and I talked about certain chart placements being relevant, and they were like, no, that has absolutely no relevance in my life, and they didn't exactly call me a terrible astrologer.

但这位年轻女性以某种方式指出，这种解读并不准确，完全不符合她的生活。

But this this young woman said a note in certain terms that the delineation was not correct and did not fit her life in any way.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

你记得我之前提到过关于

You recall you recall me talking I about

做。

do.

我记得。

I do recall.

好的。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

所以有些事情只能在人生的后期才显现，因此在你生命中的某个阶段，尤其是早期，它们可能不会立即显得合理。

So certain things can only manifest later in life, and so they may not make immediate sense at a certain time of your life, especially earlier on.

对。

Right.

但占星师最终可能仍然是对的。

But the astrologer ultimately could still be right.

他们可能是对的。

They could be.

如果你找的是像我这样优秀的占星师，他们可能是对的。

They could be if you're talking to like a really good astrologer like me.

有一天，我们在一起时，我随便看过你的星盘。

So I had I had looked at your chart just in passing one day, when we were hanging out.

那不是像普通客户那样正式的占星咨询，更像是朋友之间互相看看星盘，随便聊聊之类的。

It wasn't a consultation like a normal client astrologer thing, but more, looking at each other's charts as friends and passing or something like that.

我说过，某个特定的星盘位置意味着你将来可能会参与组织工作，或者领导某个组织，以某种组织身份行事。

And I said the certain placement that it would make sense in terms of getting involved in organizations or leading an organization or something like that in an organizational capacity.

或者带领一群人。

Or groups of people.

我之前是说和一群人有关吗？

Did I say that with groups of people?

第九宫和第十一宫的星象显示，但那时你大部分时间并没有这样的经历，不过后来，你当上了某个占星组织的主席，持续了将近十年。

Ninth house and eleventh house stuff, and that had not been the case for you for the most part up to that point, but then later, you became the president of an astrological organization for the better part of like a decade.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

是的

Yeah.

所以我猜对了。

So I was right.

你没错。

You're right.

但是但是

But But

公平地说，那时还没发生。

in fairness, it had not happened yet.

对。

Right.

那个星盘位置在你生活中尚未显现，对吧。

It was a placement that hadn't manifested in your life yet, Right.

所以这不仅是为了让你再讲一遍这个故事，而是就我们今天讨论的内容而言，你必须对那些在你的星盘中尚未显现的事情保持开放态度。

And so this is not only for you to recount the story again, but in terms of relevance to what we're talking about today, you know, you have to be open to things that may not have manifested yet in your particular chart.

就像那确实是一个真实存在的东西。

Like that that is actually a thing.

所以，占星师可能会谈论你星盘中的某个星体位置或一组星体位置，而你可能对此没有共鸣。

So an astrologer can be talking about a placement in your chart or collection of placements, and maybe you don't relate to it.

这可能只是因为那些事情尚未发生，尤其是在传统占星学中，你知道，并非星盘中的所有内容都被视为持续发生。

And it could just be that it hasn't happened yet because particularly in traditional astrology, you know, not everything not everything in the chart is seen as like constantly happening.

它们更像是在不同时间被激活。

It's more like they can be turned on at different times.

所以，这始终是一种可能性。

So that's always a possibility.

另一方面

On the flip side

我的意思是，这对年轻人尤其相关。

I mean, that's especially relevant for younger people.

是的。

Yeah.

为年轻人做占星咨询时，这确实是一个真实且潜在的问题——图表中所显示的关于他们生活的许多内容可能尚未显现或尚未发生。

And that's a real real problem and and potential pitfall with with doing consultations for younger people is a lot of the stuff that may the chart that may be indicated in the chart about their life may not have manifest or may not have happened yet.

对。

Right.

有时候，人们随着年龄增长会发生变化，或者他们的生活走向了他们未曾预料的方向，诸如此类。

And sometimes people grow and change as they get older or their life goes in directions that they didn't expect or what have you.

这没什么问题，但只是需要注意一下这种可能性。

And that's okay, but it's just a potential thing to be aware of.

但与此同时，作为客户，你仍然应该对占星师保持开放的态度。

But at the same time, you should still also it's okay as a client to be open with the astrologer.

我的意思是，你没必要态度恶劣，但你完全可以说：‘不好意思，这和我目前的生活并不相符’，或者‘这不太对得上’。

I mean, you don't wanna be a jerk about it, but you can still be like, no, I'm sorry, that doesn't match my life at at the present time or or that doesn't quite jive.

有时候，这种反馈是良好且重要的，因为它可以帮助占星师更深入地分析，有时甚至调整他们的说法。

And and sometimes that feedback is good and important because it can help the astrologer to look harder and sometimes modify what they're saying.

并不是说他们在对你进行冷读，但确实存在一种‘校准’过程，用以理解星盘配置是如何在现实中体现的。

Not in that they're like cold reading you, but there is a certain amount of like calibration that goes into understanding how the chart placements are playing out.

有些因素可能会抵消某些星盘位置的影响，嗯。

And some factors could be offsetting certain placements Mhmm.

他们可能不会考虑到这些，或者直到听到你的反馈后才会意识到这些因素在起抵消作用。

That they're not gonna be taking into account or they're not gonna be realizing that that's offsetting things until they hear that that feedback from you.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当然。

Definitely.

或者它可能以另一种具体形式显现，虽然在占星象征意义上仍属于同一领域，但你可能还没提到过那个方面。

Or it could have manifested in a different specific that still falls in the same arena symbolically in astrology, but you haven't mentioned that one yet maybe.

如果客户随后说：不，这个在我身上并没有发生过，你可能会想，哦，原来如此。

And so if the client then says, no, that hasn't been the case for me with that particular topic, you might be like, oh, okay.

它也可能与这个话题相关，也许会落在同一个宫位之类的情况中。

Well, it can also be related to this topic, which maybe will fall in the same house or that kind of thing.

他们可能会说：哦，对，这个确实说得通。

They might be like, oh, yeah, that actually does work.

是的

Yeah.

比如，我们回到第九宫的星盘位置。

Like it can be like, let's just go back to our ninth house placements.

占星师可能会说，这个位置可能表现为对教育的高度重视，而你会说：不，教育对我来说并不重要。

Like the astrologer could say, this placement could manifest as a major focus on education, And you're like, no, education is not that important to me.

然后他们会说：好吧，另一个可能性是它可能表现为对宗教和灵性的高度关注。

And they're like, okay, well, another area is that it could be a major focus on religion and spirituality.

而你可能会说：哦，对，我其实正在接受成为神职人员的训练之类的。

And you could be like, oh, yeah, I'm training to be a priest or something like that.

嗯

Mhmm.

然后，这个过程——先听到最初的解读，再给出反馈说‘这不契合’——实际上是我们应该补充的一点，因为客户常犯的错误是没意识到占星师所描述的原型如何与他们的生活相契合。

And then that process of, you know, hearing the initial delineation and giving that feedback of, no, that's not connecting, that's probably actually one we should add on, is a common mistake that clients make is not seeing the way that the archetype of what the astrologer is delineating can fit their life.

嗯

Mhmm.

有时候，他们期待占星师说出的不是精确的内容，而是完全相同的措辞。

Like, sometimes they're expecting the astrologer to say, if not the precise exact thing, like to use the exact phrase.

除非占星师使用的措辞恰好与客户自己理解的方式完全一致，否则……

And unless the astrologer uses the exact phrase in the way that the client themself conceptualizes it Mhmm.

客户有时会拒绝这些内容，认为它们不相关或不真实，即使实际上它们是正确的。

The client can sometimes reject that as being not relevant or not true even if it actually is.

只是这些内容没有用客户自己理解的精确方式表达出来。

It's just not phrased in the precise way that the client understands it themselves.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

所以，比如说，关于宗教或者灵性之类的话题。

So let's say something about like religion or or or spirituality or something like that.

占星师可能会说，宗教和灵性对你来说是个重要的主题。

Like the astrologer could say, religion and spirituality is is a important topic for you.

而那个人会说：不，不是这样的。

And the person's like, no, it's not.

但接着那个人可能会说，比如他们的哲学教授之类的。

And but then the person is like, their professor of philosophy or something like that, let's say.

对。

Right.

因此，从这个角度看，关于存在、哲学或生命意义等更宏观议题的描述，确实与那个人的生活相关，只是占星师没有用他们所期待的确切方式表达出来。

And so in that way, that delineation is still true of like thinking about bigger picture things about existence or the philosophy or meaning of life or other things like that is somehow relevant in that person's life, but the astrologer just isn't phrasing it in the exact way.

有时，很多客户，尤其是那些接触占星很久的人，能够理解原型的多重含义，他们会接受占星师的解读，说：这并不完全准确，但确实与我生活中的某个方面有关。

And sometimes, like, a lot of clients, especially if they've been around astrology for a while, they understand the multivalence of the archetypes and can take in the delineation from the astrologer and say, no, that's not precisely too true, but that does relate to this part of my life.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但有些客户并不明白他们本该这样去理解，如果他们没有预期或准备好了这一点，就可能成为障碍。

But there's some clients that don't realize that that's what they're supposed to be doing, and that can create a stumbling block if they're not expecting or anticipating that.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

我也有过类似的经历，有几次遇到客户，他们的事业与第九宫有关，但他们的工作内容并不是典型的第九宫主题，而是经常因为工作而旅行。

I've had similar things where a few times actually I've had like career someone with on their chart with career connected to the ninth house, but it won't be like a ninth house topic that they do for their career, but they actually like travel all the time for work.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以，这种联系可能以一种完全不同的方式呈现，你可能不会预料到，但它仍然契合第九宫的某个主题。

And so it can be like a totally different way that you're not necessarily expecting it to show up in the connection, but it still fits like one of the topics there.

对。

Right.

所以他们的事业并不是关于旅行，但他们确实因为工作而经常旅行。

And so like their career is not about travel, but they do travel for work.

所以也可能出现这种情况，你知道，占星是一种语言，我们所做的是一种翻译，而翻译总是不完美的，尤其是当你在处理多重含义的事物时。

So it can be things like that as well, which, you know, it's astrology is a language, and what we're doing is a translation, and translation is imperfect, especially when you're talking about multivalent things.

因此，这有点像一种对话，需要不断尝试才能找到那些具体的关联，而这些关联并不总是一次就能准确命中。

And so, you know, it's a little bit of like a dialogue to try to get to those specifics that won't always hit on the very first try.

对。

Yeah.

而且我们得找到那个中间尺度：要分辨出什么时候是占星师出于某些原因确实说的不对、没能给出准确的星盘解读，又什么时候是他们的判断已经很接近核心了——他们的确捕捉到了当事人生活里真实存在的某一部分，只是这个原型的具体表现形式需要换一种表述或重构来把它说清楚。

And figuring out that middle ground between when is it that the astrologers really not saying something that's right or not not giving an accurate delineation of the chart for some reason versus when are they getting close enough in the neighborhood that they're actually picking up on something that is a genuine portion of the person's life, but just needs to be maybe rephrased or reframed in a certain way in order to clarify the exact particular manifestation of the archetype.

没错。

Right.

没错。

Right.

和这点相关的话，说到

And related to that, in terms

……

of

反馈的问题，有一点很重要：如果在咨询过程中，你对某个内容完全无法产生共鸣，或是咨询没有朝着你期望的方向推进，也没有聚焦在你关心的问题上，那你一定要鼓起勇气，在咨询结束前把这个情况提出来。

feedback, it is important, like, if the consultation is kind of if you're really not relating to something or if the consultation is not really going in the direction that you were hoping or it's not focusing on the things you were wanting to, it is important to like feel enough self possession to to bring that up before the consultation is over.

对。

Yeah.

引导对话方向是可以的。

It's okay to like redirect things.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你不提出来，占星师有时候根本不知道你需要这样。

And the astrologer sometimes won't know if you need that unless you say that, you know?

所以大多数时候，事情看起来都进行得还不错。

So most of the time it seems like things are, you know, going fine.

但如果对你来说并不顺利，你就得明确说：其实我本来希望我们能聊聊这个。

But if it's not going fine for you, you need to kind of be like, actually, I hoped we would talk about this.

这样还有时间去做调整，而不是事后才感到失望。

And so there's still time left to do that, and there's time left for the course correction rather than just being disappointed after the fact.

因为正如我们之前讨论的，这是一场对话，是一种双向互动。

Because as we've been talking about, it is a dialogue, it is like a a two way interaction.

它不应该是你作为旁观者去评判的表演，除非是像预先录制的本命盘解读那样的情况。

It's not supposed to be like a performance that you are judging or a passive observer or things like that unless it's like a pre recorded, you know, like natal chart delineation.

但大多数咨询中，这都是一场对话，因此你需要主动参与，表达出‘这对我来说不太奏效’之类的想法。

But most of the time with most consultations, is a dialogue and so you do need to play that part in going, this isn't quite working for me or something like that.

对。

Right.

好的。

Alright.

所以，对于星盘有不同的角度或解读方式。

So and there's different angles or insights into a chart.

你可以去找不同的占星师，他们会以不同方式解读相同的星盘位置，有的更清晰，有的则从不同角度出发。

You can go to different astrologers and they're gonna read different placements differently, some with more or less clarity, some just from different angles.

比如，有些占星师更偏向心理学视角，有些更偏向灵性视角，还有一些则更注重具体的预测性解读。

Like there may be some astrologers that have more of a psychological take on things, there might be some astrologers that have more of a spiritual take on things, there might be some astrologers that have more of like a concrete predictive take on things.

作为客户或占星爱好者，去寻求不同占星师的解读，本身就很有价值；如果你是占星学习者，甚至是有志成为专业占星师的人，更应该去让不同占星师为你解读星盘，这样你就能看到他们各自不同的处理方式。

That's one of the values of actually going to different astrologers both purely as a client or as an astrology enthusiast, but also if you're a student of astrology or if you're even a professional astrologer or have aspirations to be a professional astrologer, one of the great things that you can do is go get your chart read by different astrologers because you'll see how different astrologers approach things.

这有时非常有用，不仅能让你接触到自己原本不知道的占星流派，还可能在咨询后激发你进一步学习的兴趣。

Sometimes that can be useful or illustrative both in turning you on to different approaches to astrology that you might not know about anyways and you might want to study after getting a consultation.

但如果你将来成为专业占星师，拥有让不同占星师为你解读星盘的经历也很重要，这样你才能明白，哪些地方你喜欢或不喜欢，从而塑造出属于自己的咨询风格，以便为客户提供最优质的咨询服务。

But also, if you become a professional astrologer at some point, it's important to have had that experience of getting your chart read with different astrologers so you can know, you know, what are some of the things that I I liked or didn't like about those consultations and that I would like to, craft my own consultation style to be like in order to, you know, give people the best consultations that I can

是的。

Mhmm.

经历过其他占星师的解读。

Having had that experience with other astrologers.

我该如何从这些经历中汲取经验，以便未来能做好自己的咨询？

What can I take from those experiences in order to do good consultations myself in the future?

对。

Right.

没错。

Right.

不同的占星师，无论怎样，即使他们风格和方法相同，对不同的星盘位置也会有不同见解，甚至在不同时候对同一位置的理解也会有所不同。

And different astrologers, no matter what, like even if they have the same style, same approach to astrology, they're gonna have different insights, you know, on different placements and maybe even have different insights like at different times on those placements.

因此，我一直觉得，单一种解读方式是远远不够的。

And that's why I always feel like it's really important that it's not just a single take on your chart.

你不能只读一次星盘就以为这就是全部了，因为星盘有多个层面。

You don't just get your chart read once and then that's all there is to it, and that's the only thing it can mean because there's different facets.

即使是单个星体位置、宫主星之类的东西，也有无数不同的层面。

There's so many different facets of like even just like a single placement or house rulership or something.

不同的占星师会带来不同的见解，这些见解并不意味着一个是对的，另一个就是错的。

And so different astrologers gonna have different insights you can take away from that that aren't necessarily like this one is true and therefore this one is false.

它们只是真相的不同侧面。

It's just different facets of the truth.

是的。

Yeah.

星盘本身有时内容非常丰富，有太多不同的解读方式，有些占星师，尤其是心理占星师，他们的咨询可以多次进行——你不一定非得这么做，但一次咨询通常可以探讨三到五个主题。

And the chart itself sometimes can be there's so much going on in it and there's so many different ways to look at it that sometimes there's some astrologers that a consultation especially more psychological astrologers where consultation is something you can do more than once that you're not just expected to necessarily, but where you could talk about a certain number of things like let's say three or three to five topics in one consultation.

如果你还有其他没谈到、但依然想讨论的话题，而占星师也表示可以继续探讨，你可以在以后的某个时间再做一次咨询。

But then if there are other topics that you didn't get to that you still wanna talk about and that the astrologer says that they could still address, you could just do another consultation at some other later date Mhmm.

以便探索星盘的其他部分。

In order to explore other parts of the chart.

是的。

Yeah.

这也没关系。

And that's that's okay as well.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

For sure.

尤其是当你在处理时间因素时，因为当你开始谈论时间以及星盘中不同部分在不同时间被激活时，你可以一直聊下去，因为时间总是在变化。

And especially if you're dealing with timing because, you know, when you start talking about timing and how different pieces of the chart are animated at different times, you know, you can talk about that pretty much forever because the timing will always be changing.

是的。

Yeah.

有些占星师或客户会在生日时进行年度咨询，查看他们的年度主星、太阳回归或来年的行运等情况。

And some astrologers or some clients will do like an annual consultation on their birthday to look at their annual profections or their solar turns or what their transits are gonna be from the coming year or different things like that.

作为一名执业占星师，你会在某些客户生命中的不同时期定期见到他们，隔一两年再做一次跟进咨询，听听他们之前的事情发展如何，以及他们现在的生活状况。

And there's some clients as a practicing astrologer that you'll see periodic during periodically during the course of their life, and you'll, you know, do another follow-up consultation a year or years later, and you'll hear how things went and how things ended up playing out and where they're at in their life now.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

然后，这种新的背景信息能帮助你预测未来的发展方向。

And then that new context can help you to then project where things are gonna go in the future.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

当然。

Definitely.

是的。

Yeah.

这在双方看来都非常有价值，能够看到这些因素如何随时间变化，以及具体细节如何在某些年份逐渐显现出来。

And that can be really valuable on both sides, kinda seeing how those things change over time and how the specifics kind of come into manifestation in certain years and things like that.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

For sure.

好的。

Alright.

所以是对话和准备。

So dialogue, preparations.

你可以询问个别占星师，是否在咨询前做一些准备会有帮助，比如回顾你生命中的某些过去日期，或者研究一些日期，特别是如果你不太擅长当场回忆起具体的日期时。

You can ask individual astrologers if any preparation would be useful ahead of time for the consultation, such as, for example, sometimes looking back at past dates in your life or doing research into dates, especially if you're not that great at, like, recalling specific dates on the fly from memory.

嗯。

Mhmm.

有时候，研究你生活中重要事件发生的时间会很有帮助，这样在进行咨询时就能带着这些信息，因为在某些情况下，有些占星师可能会觉得这些信息很有用，比如他们想了解你结婚、获得工作、升职、离婚、离开国家移居海外等具体日期。

Sometimes it can be useful to research past dates when important things happened in your life so that if for example and to go into the consultation with that information because in some instances, there's some astrologers that might that that information might be useful where they might wanna know the date when you got married or you got your job or you got a job promotion or you got a divorce or you left the country and moved abroad or what have you.

嗯。

Mhmm.

知道这些日期可以帮助你回溯当时的影响星象或命盘中被激活的部分，从而再次梳理你生命中事件的发展轨迹。

If knowing those dates could provide context by looking back at like the transits or what parts of your chart were activated at those times in order again to to get that sort of like trajectory of events in your life.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当然。

Definitely.

不同的占星师对这一点的需求可能不同，但如果你主要想探讨某个或某几个特定话题，最好回顾一下与这些话题相关的过去日期，以防万一提到。

And different astrologers may want that more than others, but especially if you're asking about a specific topic or two topics or something, then you might look back at past dates related to those topics just in case it comes up.

同样，我有不少客户在咨询时会带着日记本或打开邮箱屏幕，以便在讨论日期时能快速查找信息。

And similarly, I've had a fair number of clients come to the consultation with like a journal or a diary next to them or their email, you know, up on the screen so that they can quickly search for something if we're talking about dates.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

这可能会很有帮助，具体是否需要则取决于咨询的类型——如果你希望进行更具预测性或更侧重日期的分析，有些占星师会考虑这一点，而另一些则不会。

So that can be useful and can be Again, just depending on different types of consultations can be useful if you're looking for something more predictive or more date oriented and some astrologers may take that into account and others may not.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但最好提前考虑一下，或者问问这对占星师是否有帮助，或者反过来，如果这不是他们通常会考虑的因素，那可能就没必要。

But it's good to good to think about or sometimes ask about if that would be helpful for the astrologer ahead of time or alternatively if that's not something they would normally take into account if it would not be.

对。

Right.

毕竟，如果这不是他们的风格，你也不必强行推动这一点。

Since you don't necessarily wanna like force that issue if that's not their approach as well.

当然。

For sure.

对吧？

Right?

好的。

Alright.

我们休息回来了。

We're back from a break.

我们从哪里开始呢？

Where should we start again?

我们来看看。

Let's see.

我认为下一个要点是关于期望的明确性，以及什么是可能的、什么是不可能的。

I think the next note was on expectations of specificity and what is and isn't possible.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

所以保持合理的期望很好，我知道如果你是一个刚接触占星、还不太了解占星的人，这可能会有点困难。

So it's good to have reasonable expectations, I know can be a little bit hard if you're coming in as a new person who doesn't know a lot about astrology yet, or doesn't practice astrology yourself.

但对你能从星盘中获得什么、占星师能从你的星盘中看到什么，保持合理的期望是很好的。

But it's good to have reasonable expectations about what you can, what the astrologer can see in your chart.

这稍微呼应了我们之前讨论的关于提供背景信息的话题。

And that echoes a little bit back to what we were talking about in terms of providing context.

例如，星盘不会告诉你生活中具体的背景细节，但它会揭示你生活中不同领域的轮廓，或你个性中某些方面的概貌等等。

So for instance, the chart will not tell the specific context of your life, It will tell some of the outlines of different areas of your life or some of the outlines of different pieces of your personality and so forth.

但它不一定能深入到所有细节。

But it won't get all the way down to the specifics necessarily.

现在我想稍微反驳一下，有时候你确实能在星盘中看到出人意料的直接体现。

Now I wanna sort of counter that, like you can sometimes see sort of surprisingly literal manifestations in the chart.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，确实有一些出人意料的具体内容。

I mean, there's some surprisingly specific things.

嗯。

Mhmm.

确实如此。

There are.

这就像我们刚才长时间讨论的，符号和不同原型的多重含义。

It's just a matter of kinda like we were talking about at length a few moments ago, you know, the multivalent nature of the symbols and different archetypes and so forth.

它们可能不会一开始就以你生活中最直接的方式显现出来，或者到目前为止的表现方式。

They may or may not latch on to like the first one being the specific way that it plays out in your life or has so far.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这其实非常复杂，但关键在于，当一个人第一次找占星师咨询时，整个过程本质上是一个持续调整期望的过程——占星师和客户之间需要不断协调，让客户原本对咨询的期待，根据占星师实际能提供的内容进行适当调整，而占星师能提供的内容，可能比客户预期的更具体，也可能更模糊，这取决于占星师自身的占星理念。

I mean, it's it's really tricky, but the main thing is just that there's the consultation between any astrologer when this is your first time seeing them is gonna be an ongoing process of managing the expectations between the astrologer and the client and and getting and the client's expectations that they have going into it during the course of the consultation getting appropriately adapted to what the astrologer actually has to offer, which may be more specific or may be less less specific than what the client is actually looking for depending on what their approach to astrology is.

对。

Right.

当然。

Definitely.

而且这也稍微回溯到我之前提到的：你到底需要一个出生图咨询，还是需要一个卜卦占卜？

And and also, I mean, that kinda harkens back a little bit too to when I was mentioning, you know, do you need a natal consultation or do you need a horary reading?

因为有时候人们希望从出生图中得到一个明确的‘是’或‘否’的答案。

Or because sometimes people are looking for, like, a really specific answer to like a yes or no question from a natal chart.

嗯。

Mhmm.

有时候你能比较清楚地看到答案，但并不总是能。

And sometimes you can kinda see pretty well, but you can't always.

而择时占卜的性质恰恰相反，它只是针对问题本身的星盘，而命盘则需要涵盖你生活的方方面面。

Whereas like that is a little bit more of the nature of like a a horary chart is like just a chart for the question itself, whereas the natal has to encompass everything about your life.

所以，可能不会深入探讨你某个具体问题的细节。

So may or may not drill down into like the very specifics of like one question you have.

是的。

Yeah.

或者像我该什么时候开始某件事，这可能更属于择时占卜的范畴。

Or also like when should I start something which might be more of an electional thing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

或者我和这个人合不合适，这可能更属于关系分析的范畴。

Or is are me and this person compatible, which might be more of a relationship analysis thing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

诸如此类的事情。

Things like that.

对。

Right.

当然。

Definitely.

好的。

Okay.

所以是期望。

So expectations.

你的期望是什么？

What are your expectations?

显然，作为一个刚接触占星术的新手，你可能不知道该期待什么，但要弄清楚如何调整和适应——我刚开始接触占星术时，以为它会非常具体，完全围绕前世之类的内容展开

Obviously, as a new person to astrology or new astrology, you might not know what to expect, but figuring out how to modify that and adapt it to you know, when I got into astrology, I expected it to be highly specific and and entirely about like past life stuff

嗯。

Mhmm.

还有预测性。

And predictive.

当我刚开始学习占星时，我是通过astrodeanstastro.com以及现代心理占星来学习的，那种方式并不太注重预测。

And when I started learning astrology, I started learning it through like astrodeanstastro.com and through like modern psychological astrology where it's not really predictive as much.

预测更像是心理分析的副产品，或者是占星术研究人类心理能力的一种附带现象。

Like prediction is more like a side effect or like epiphenomena of psychological analysis and the ability of astrology to study people's psyche.

因此，我不得不调整和适应自己的期望——从刚接触占星时对它的想象，到真正了解占星究竟是什么、它的设计初衷是什么。

And so I had to then sort of change and adapt my expectations of what I thought should be able to do with astrology just coming in off the street to what astrology was actually like and how it was designed.

然后四五年后，当我接触到希腊化占星术时，又经历了一次转变，因为它更偏向预测和具体化。

And then four or five years later, had to go through another transformation when I discovered Hellenistic astrology which was more predictive and concrete.

于是我又开始稍微调整自己的期望，去适应占星术在这种语境下所能做的事情。

And then again, started changing and adapting my expectations a little bit to what astrology could do in that context.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我认为，每个新接触占星师的人，为了匹配占星师实际能提供的内容而调整自己的期望，这在整个咨询过程中都可能是一个持续进行的过程。

And so I think every person who's seeing a new astrologer adapting your expectations to match what the astrologer actually has to offer is gonna be a sort of ongoing process during the course of the consultation.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当然。

Definitely.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这是个非常好的观点，因为即使你大致了解占星能做什么，不同的占星师提供的内容也可能不同，因此你确实需要根据他们具体提供的内容即时调整自己的期待。

I think that's a really good point because even if you kind of know what astrology can do, different astrologers, you know, may offer different things and and so you do need to kind of on the fly like adjust to what they are offering you in particular.

是的。

Yeah.

通常来说，调整自己的期待比强迫占星师去满足你对他们的预期要好得多。

And it's better usually to adjust than it is to attempt to force the astrologer to meet whatever your expectation is of what they should be able to do.

没错。

Right.

但更好的做法是弄清楚这个人真正提供的是什么，即使它和你的预期不同，也要发现其中有趣或有用的部分。

But instead figure out what it is that this person does offer and what's interesting or useful about it even if it's different than what you're expecting.

嗯。

Mhmm.