占星师解释占星术

在这次与克里斯·布伦南的访谈中，你将认识这位占星播客背后的天才，并了解它为何如此受欢迎。

In this interview with Chris Brennan, you get to meet the genius behind the astrology podcast and find out why it's so popular.

人们喜欢收听节目，了解未来会发生什么，以及如何将其应用到自己的生活中。

People love tuning in and finding out what's coming next and how to implement it in their lives.

等你亲耳听到克里斯本人的说法吧。

Wait till you hear from Chris himself.

所以，克里斯，非常感谢你今天抽出时间与我们交流。

So Chris, let me thank you so much for taking the time to be with us here today.

我对这次对话可能带来的方向感到非常兴奋。

I'm so excited about where this conversation might take us.

是的。

Yeah.

非常感谢你今天邀请我。

Thanks a lot for having me today.

我也很兴奋。

I'm excited as well.

所以，在当今这个时代，你算是比较年轻的占星师。

So you are kind of, on the young side of astrologers in this day and age.

那么，你是怎么开始接触占星学的呢？

So how did how did this whole astrology thing get started in your life?

当然。

Sure.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，很多更资深的占星师都是在上世纪六七十年代那波浪潮中进入这个领域的。

I mean, a lot of astrologers, more established astrologers, are sort of came in in the wave during the nineteen 1960s and '70s.

我其实是在90年代末到2000年代初上高中时接触到占星学的，当时就被它深深吸引，决定把一生都投入到这门学科的研究中。

I actually found astrology when I was in high school in the late '90s and early 2000s and just was really fascinated by it and decided that that's what I wanted to spend my life studying.

所以我后来去大学专门学习占星学，毕业后也一直继续从事这方面的研究。

So I actually went to school and studied astrology in college and then continued to pursue it afterwards.

你说你在高中时接触到占星学的。

So you say you came across it in high school.

能再多告诉我一些吗？

Tell me a little bit more about that.

发生了什么？

What happened?

为什么它能吸引你？

Why did it stick?

当然。

Sure.

我一直都知道报纸上那些太阳星座的说法，这在某种程度上还挺新奇的。

So I mean I was always aware of Sun signs in newspapers and things like that, and that was kind of novel on some level.

但当我发现出生星盘这个概念时，我才真正被吸引——原来占星师关注的不只是太阳星座，还有其他行星，这些行星在一个人的出生星盘中会位于不同的黄道星座，所有这些因素综合起来，能更复杂地揭示一个人的性格和人生未来。

But it was when I discovered the concept of the birth chart and that there's different planets that astrologers pay attention to besides just the Sun sign and each planet can be in different signs of the zodiac in a person's birth chart and that all comes together in a more complex way to say something about the nature and future of a person's life.

那为什么这个对你来说特别有趣呢？

And why was that interesting to you?

因为这看起来本不该有效，但当我越来越关注它、开始实践并研究它的历史与哲学时，我惊讶地发现，这样的体系竟然真的能对一个人的性格或未来命运有所说明？

Just because it's something that seemed like it shouldn't work, but the more I paid attention to it and started to work with it and study its history and philosophy, I was surprised that something like that could actually work or have anything to say about a person's character or future destiny?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得你说得对。

I think you're right.

在我脑子里，它就是这样运作的——明明不应该有效，却偏偏有效。

In my in my head, it works the same way it shouldn't work.

当你排出星盘时，它竟然惊人地吻合，你会忍不住想：等等，这背后可能真有什么道理。

And then when you do a birth chart, it and and it hits eerily close, you're kind of like, Wait a minute, there might be something here.

那么，关于你的星盘，哪一件事最让你有共鸣呢？

So what was one of the most interesting things that connected with you personally about your birth chart?

我的经验是，回过头来看，最有趣的一点是，它有时能准确描述出一个人未来尚未发生的事情，尤其是对年轻人来说，起初可能完全看不出关联。

I mean, one of the most interesting things in retrospect was sometimes, in my experience and sometimes seeing other younger people, way that it can sometimes describe events that will happen in their life that haven't happened yet and may seem to not connect initially when a person's younger.

但随着你慢慢长大，人生逐渐展开，有时生活会带你走向意想不到的方向，而这些方向最终竟与星盘的预言完全吻合，令人惊讶。

But as you get older, you sort of grow into your life a little bit more and sometimes life takes you in interesting and unexpected directions that sometimes end up matching exactly what the birth chart said much to your surprise.

对我来说，这大概是最有趣、最令人着迷的体验了。

I think that's one of the most fun and interesting experiences for me.

这很有趣，因为很多时候，我们研究占星术是为了预测今天会有什么感受或会发生什么事，但直到事后回顾时，才发现这一切其实都串联在了一起。

So that is interesting because a lot of times with astrology, we look for it to tell us how we're going to feel today or things that might happen for us and that we don't realize them until in retrospect that all of this sort of comes together.

我注意到你真的深入钻研了这种古老的占星艺术。

I noticed that you really are digging in with this ancient art of astrology.

是什么让你对这种希腊化或古代占星实践产生了共鸣？

What is it in you that connects with this Hellenistic or, you know, ancient astrology practice?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得是因为我在大学学习占星历史时发现，占星术在两千年前的古罗马帝国初期，与今天相比要截然不同。

I think it was just the fact discovered when I was in college and studying the history of astrology that astrology used to be a lot more different in the ancient world two thousand years ago in like the Roman Empire when it first started compared to today.

当时有许多先进而有趣的技术、timing技巧以及不同的哲学概念，使得古代占星术作为预测系统比二十世纪时更有效，因为占星术在跨文化、跨语言的传播过程中不断被简化。

There was a lot of interesting advanced techniques and timing techniques and different philosophical concepts that existed back then that made astrology a little bit more effective as a predictive system than it became in the twentieth century because it kept getting transmitted from culture to culture and language to language.

在过去两千年里，每次传播都会丢失一些内容，同时又增添一些新元素，导致二十世纪的占星术与两千年前已大不相同。

And every time that happened over the past two thousand years, some things were lost and other things were added until it was a lot different in twentieth century astrology compared to two thousand years ago.

我人生的一部分目标，就是回到过去，重新发掘这些古代技术，并将其中有用的部分带回现代。

Part of my goal in life has been to go back and recover some of those ancient techniques and bring the useful ones forward to today.

那么在它最初被发展出来的时候，你提到的那些人，他们是怎么开始认为天体的排列实际上会影响我们这个叫做地球的星球上的我们呢？

So how did that use when it was developed, you're talking about, how did they start saying, okay, these alignment of planets in the heavens actually affect me here on this planet we call Earth?

他们是怎么建立起这种联系的呢？

How did they start that whole connection?

当然。

Sure.

我想这最初只是源于一些长期从事观星的家族，他们每天、每晚都会外出观察星空并记录下自己的观察结果，不仅在看到有趣的星象或显著的天文现象时记录，有时也会记录下当时在他们城市或世界上发生的事件。

I think it just started very basically with you had these long families of sky watchers that would go out every day and every night and look at the stars and write down their observations, not just when they would see an interesting astrological alignment or see something happen in the sky that was notable astronomically, but they would also sometimes note down what events took place in their city or in the world in general at that time.

比如，如果发生了一次日食，同时国王去世了，他们就会把这些记录下来，存入一个信息库或档案库。

Like for example, if there was a major eclipse and a king died, they would write that down and add that to a library or a repository of information.

经过许多代人的积累，他们积累了足够的这类相关性观察，从而开始总结出一些基本原理。

And after many, many generations, they built up enough observations of those correlations to start working out some of the basic principles.

这真的很有趣。

That's really interesting.

然后它就这样不断发展壮大了。

So then it just kept growing from there.

所以最初是基于观察的，你的意思是这样吗？

So first it was observational, is that what you're saying?

是的，这是基于观察且非常经验性的，因为他们只是关注重大的天文排列，并留意同时发生的各类事件，其前提并非认为星星导致了这些事件发生，而是存在某种关联或同步性，通过相似性和意义暗示了它们之间的联系，即使并不存在因果关系。

Yeah, it was observational and very empirical because they were just looking at significant astronomical alignments and they would pay attention to what types of events happened at the same time simultaneously under the premise not necessarily that the stars were causing those events to happen but that there was some sort of correlation or some sort of synchronicity that was indicating a connection between them through similarity and meaning even if they weren't causally related.

明白了。

Okay.

你提到古代占星术中有一些重要的内容值得传承下来。

So you mentioned there were some things from this ancient practice of astrology that you felt like was important to bring forward.

其中一两个是什么？为什么？

What's one or two of those and why?

当然。

Sure.

在我们过去三十年重新发掘古代占星术的过程中，有一个最基本的概念在现代占星术中已经消失了，那就是‘派别’概念，即区分日间星盘和夜间星盘——古代占星师首先会判断一个人是白天出生还是夜晚出生。

So one of the most basic concepts that didn't survive in the modern astrology that we found in recovering ancient astrology over the past thirty years or so is the concept of sect, which is the distinction between day charts and night charts where the very first thing an ancient astrologer would pay attention to is they would look to determine if a person was born during the day or if they were born at night.

这会以非常显著的方式影响对出生星盘的解读，这很合理，因为这是我们每天都会经历的最明显的天文差异之一：是白天、阳光明媚，还是夜晚、一片漆黑？

And this would alter the interpretation of the birth chart in a very significant way, which makes sense because that's one of the most obvious astronomical distinctions that we all experience on a day to day basis is just is it daytime and is it bright out or is it nighttime and is it dark out?

但不知为何，这个概念没有流传下来，也没有被后来的占星师世代传承，这是因为在文艺复兴之后的十七世纪，占星术开始衰落。

But for some reason that concept didn't survive or wasn't passed on through the generations of astrologers due to the decline of astrology in the seventeenth century after the Renaissance.

所以，这是我们重新发现的一个非常重要的概念。

So that's one really important concept that we recovered.

此外，还有一类来自古希腊占星术的重要技术，称为‘主星系统’，这些是不同的方法，用于将人的一生划分为章节和子章节，仿佛人生是一本书，你可以确定每一章何时开始、何时结束。

And then there was another important category of techniques from ancient Greek astrology known as the Time Lord systems, were different systems for dividing a person's life up into chapters and subsections as if the life was a book and you could identify when each chapter of your life began and when each chapter ends.

因此，这是一些用于预测人生中某些事件何时发生的有趣而独特的时机技术。

So the sort of interesting sort of exotic timing techniques for determining things about when certain things will happen in a person's life.

那么，你现在在实践中会使用这些技术吗？

So do you bring that forward in your practice now?

是的，这是我在书中重点讨论的主要技术之一，也是我过去十五年左右所有咨询中一直使用的技术，用以验证这些古代希腊文献中记载的理论在当今人们生活中的实际应用。

Yeah, that's one of the major techniques that I talk about in my book and that I've used in all consultations that I've done over the past fifteen years or so in order to see how the theory of the technique as it's written down in some of the ancient Greek texts actually applies to people's lives today.

尤其是将这些技术应用于名人、演员或政治家的星盘时，效果非常令人着迷。

And it's been really fascinating applying it especially the charts of celebrities or actors or politicians.

例如，这项技术源自公元二世纪，来自一位名叫瓦迪乌斯·瓦伦斯的作者，他生活在埃及亚历山大，大约在一月左右。

For example, this technique from the second century, it's from a second century text by an author named Vadius Valens who lived in Egypt in Alexandria around January.

使用这种技术，如果你将其应用于现代演员的星盘，比如小罗伯特·唐尼，它表明他将在2008年左右经历一次重大的职业转型，并开启一个持续二十年的职业巅峰期。

And using this technique, if you apply it to a modern actor's chart, like for example, Robert Downey Jr, it indicated that he would have a major career transition and begin a major career peak that would last for twenty years starting around 2008.

实际情况是，那正是《钢铁侠》电影上映的时候，他的职业生涯突然获得了新生，迅速腾飞，最终在一段时间内成为好莱坞收入最高的演员。

And what happened is that that was when the Iron Man movie came out and his career suddenly was given a second breath of life and really took off and he became eventually for a period of time like the highest paid actor in Hollywood.

看到我们从一部二世纪的文本中提取出这种技术，竟能如此精准地预测这样的事件，真是令人震惊。

So seeing technique that we're just taking out of a second century text to be able to do something like that was really striking or really stunning.

你刚才提到的这一点，对于像小罗伯特·唐尼这样完全不知情的人，这会有什么影响呢？

So something you said about that, how does it affect someone like Robert Downey Junior who probably had that all happen unbeknownst to him?

如果你跟他交谈，告诉他这些即将发生的事，会发生什么？

What happens if he if you're talking to him and you're telling him this is what's going to happen?

这会影响他的生活方式和决策吗？

Does it affect how he lives his life and how he makes those decisions?

当然。

Sure.

有可能。

Potentially.

我的意思是，他是少数几位确实会咨询占星师并曾在不同阶段公开支持过不同占星师的主要演员之一。

I mean, he's one of the major actors that actually does consult with astrologers and has endorsed different astrologers at different periods of time.

我认为他在处理这类事情时确实会听取一些意见。

I think he is getting some advice when it comes to things like that.

但总的来说，我认为对于那些职业并非占星师的人来说，这些宏观层面的技术所揭示的内容，很多时候是独立于他们是否意识到而发生的，因为其中一些因素不仅涉及他们做出的行为和选择，还涉及他们当时所处的生活环境和机遇。

But for the most part, I think with some of those broad level techniques, for people where their career is not an astrologer, much of that stuff is happening independently regardless of if they're aware of it or not because some of it has to do with not just actions and choices they're taking, but also the circumstances in their life that are available to them at that time.

有时，我们生活中约有50%的事情是完全超出我们控制的，只是我们根据当时可获得的机遇做出反应而已。

And sometimes about 50% of the stuff in our life is very much outside of our control and are just things that we react to based on opportunities that are available to us at the time.

所以对我这样的人来说，如果你要和我一起工作，你如何帮助我把这些征兆和信息整合起来，让我能据此过上更好的生活？

So for someone like me, you know, how do I take astrology if I if I were working with you, how do you help me take all of these signs and information and help me implement them in my life so that I live a better life?

当然。

Sure.

我的意思是，其中一种方式是它能帮你对生活中发生的事件获得一些新的视角，有时在你处于关键转折点时，它能给你一些安慰——比如告诉你事情最终会向好的方向发展，或者你正走在正确的道路上，甚至即使你正经历困难时期，它也可能只是暂时的，最终会导向更美好的结果。

I mean, think one of the ways is it just helps to give you some perspective on the events that are happening in your life and some reassurance sometimes when you're at a crucial turning point that sometimes things will work out for the best or in some instances that you're on the right track or that even if you're going through a difficult time that it might have an endpoint at a certain point or it might be building up to something greater.

这些作用有些是令人安心的，能以一种你平时难以获得的独特方式，为你提供更宏观的生活视角。

Some of that is just reassuring and can help to give you some greater outside perspective on your life in a unique way than you might be used to.

对有些人来说，这相当令人安心。

And for some people that's kind of reassuring.

所以，你觉得占星术对你来说是因为有趣才去关注的吗？

So do you feel like astrology is something that was interesting to you so you followed it?

还是说你对它有更深的联系或使命感？

Or was there a deeper connection or calling for you?

是的。

Yeah.

我的情况是，用我刚才提到的关于小罗伯特·唐尼的相同技术，结果显示我开始进入职业生涯的高峰期，正好是我发现占星术的时候。

I mean, for myself using the same technique I was just talking about with Robert Downey Junior, it said that I would start a major career peak period right about the time that I discovered astrology.

所以我在书里开个玩笑说，当一个占星技术本身告诉你，你就是在那个生命阶段找到它的，那这个技术就很有用。

So that's a joke that I make in my book that you know an astrology technique is good when the technique itself tells you that you found it at that time in your life.

对。

Yeah.

太棒了。

That's great.

我知道你有一个播客，你经常采访很多占星师。

So is I know you have a podcast, you talk to a lot of astrologers.

这就是你生活的全部吗？

Is this where you spend your life?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，作为一个现代世界中存在的亚文化，占星师群体做着这样的事情——分析出生星盘、提供咨询，有时甚至给演员、政界人士或其他社会人物提供建议，这种占星术的影响力真的很令人着迷。

I mean, I think it's just really fascinating as a whole subculture that exists in the modern world that there's groups of astrologers that are doing things like this and looking at birth charts and consulting with and sometimes giving advice to not just actors but sometimes politicians or other people in the world and just the influence that astrology has in that way.

我的目标之一就是记录这一切，不仅探讨占星术的历史，还试图采访当代的占星师，记录他们正在做什么，以及他们在职业生涯或人生中做出了哪些贡献。

Part of my goal is just to document that and talk about not just the history in the past but also try to get interviews with different astrologers in the present in order to document who's doing what and what sort of contributions they're making during the course of their career or their life.

那么有哪些不同的领域呢？

So what are some different areas?

我知道你采访的占星师各有不同的专长。

I know you talk with astrologers that have all different areas of expertise.

他们主要涉及哪些不同的领域？

What are some of those different areas that they address?

当然。

Sure.

所以，有一种占星术叫做命盘占星术，就是看出生星图，但还有其他分支，比如世俗占星术，它关注的是大规模人群，比如城市和国家，或者试图预测世界事件。

So, I mean, there's one type of astrology which is natal astrology and looking at birth charts, but there's also different branches of astrology such as mundane astrology, for example, is looking at large groups of people like cities and nations or trying to predict world events.

例如，去年疫情爆发时，行星正好对齐在摩羯座，正好与封锁措施实施的时间吻合，这属于世俗占星术的范畴，旨在预测同时影响大量人群的事件。

So for example, last year with the pandemic and the alignment of planets that all lined up and aligned literally in the sign of Capricorn last year about the time that the lockdowns took place, that was something that was more in the realm of mundane astrology and trying to forecast stuff that's affecting large groups of people at the same time.

还有一种专业是择时占星术，它试图确定行动的最佳时机。

So that's one specialty or electional astrology is another specialty which is trying to determine auspicious times to act.

当你启动一项新事业或项目时，有些日期会更吉利，而另一些日期则可能更具挑战性，项目的成功可能不如你预期的那样。

And when you launch a new venture or project that there's going to be some dates that are going to be more auspicious, whereas there's going to be other dates that might be more challenging or when the success of the venture might be as not as much as you hoped for.

那什么是世俗占星术？

So what are this mundane astrology?

听起来一点都不平凡啊。

Sounds anything but mundane to me.

整个社会运动，或者全球范围的封锁事件。

This whole, like, societal movement or what's happening with lockdowns worldwide.

在这个历史时刻，你从自己或他人身上获得了哪些洞察？

What insights have you gotten, for yourself or from others based on where we are at this time in history?

是的。

Yeah.

这正是我最感兴趣的地方，理查德·塔纳斯及其《众神的变迁》系列作品中最引人注目的一点是，他是少数在2006年出版专著、深入研究和聚焦于世俗占星术的占星师之一。

Well, that's very much what interests me the most and one of the things that's most striking about the work of Richard Tarnas and his connection with the Changing of the Gods series is that he was one of the few astrologers that wrote a book in 2006 that really specialized in and focused on mundane astrology.

他研究了那些在不同时期重复出现的特定行星周期，并探讨了它们过去与哪些事件相关联。

And he looked at specific planetary cycles that would recur at different times and talked about what they've correlated with in the past.

有趣的是，如果你读过他的书，他会提到像1981年那样的土星与冥王星合相，恰好与艾滋病大流行的开始时间吻合。

And so what was interesting about that is if you read his book, he talked about how the Saturn Pluto conjunctions like the one in 1981 coincided with the beginning of the AIDS pandemic.

他展示了这种合相在过去曾多次与大流行病同时发生，因此可以推断，当这种合相在未来再次出现时，也可能再次引发类似事件。

So he had shown how it had a history of coinciding with pandemics in the past and then part of the inference then was when that conjunction recurred in the future, it could potentially recur with something like that again at some point.

当然，2020年初正是下一次土星与冥王星合相的时间。

And then of course at the beginning of 2020 was the next time we had a Saturn Pluto conjunction.

因此，我认为所有占星师都从中学到了重要的一课：有时占星师会担心过于吓到人们，或显得过于消极，这是一种自我反思，也不希望以不当的方式影响他人。

So I think all the astrologers learned something significant about that as well as just the need to sometimes Astrologers worry a lot about not freaking people out too much or not coming off as overly negative as a bit of self reflection and not wanting to influence people in an unduly negative fashion.

但我从中学到的一点是，当你看到一些具有挑战性的事情即将发生时，有时坦诚地承认它看起来很困难会更好，而不是回避，因为否则你可能会隐瞒一些真正重要的东西。

But one of the things I kind of learned from that is that sometimes when you do see something challenging coming up, sometimes it's better to be open and honest about if it looks difficult rather than not because otherwise you could be holding back something that's really important.

是的。

Yeah.

我在这里待得够久了，经历过顺境，也经历过逆境。

I've been here long enough that there's times of ease and times of difficulty.

对吧？

Right?

如果有理由解释这些困难，你说得对。

Having a reason for that difficulty, you're right.

就像别把人吓着了。

It's like, don't freak people out.

但当你知道即将发生什么时，你可以提前做好准备，从而拥有更广阔的视野。

But when you know what's going to happen, you can prepare in advance and I think have a broader view.

你认为这就是占星术所帮助的吗？

Do you think that that's what astrology helps with?

是的，获得更广阔的视角和一些时间框架的概念，了解某件事可能持续多久，最紧张的阶段何时出现，以及其他类似的事情。

Yeah, just getting a broader view and some perspective as well as some idea of timeframes involved and how long something might last or when the most tense parts might be and different things like that.

我认为，即使只是知道困难时期有多久，也能带来很大的安慰。

I think knowing the duration of difficult things even can be very reassuring.

即使占星术只能做到这一点，这本身就已经非常有帮助了。

And even if that's all you could do with astrology, like that in and of itself would be very helpful.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，知道一段困难或痛苦的时期终将结束，仅仅知道这一点就很关键。

I think knowing something is going to end that's difficult or painful, just knowing that.

因为当你身处其中时，你会觉得这就是现实的全部。

Because when you're in it, you feel like that's the sum total of reality.

对吧？

Right?

那么，你平时如何与人们进行一对一的交流呢？

So what are some individual ways you work with people one on one?

占星术在帮助人们应对我们世界正在发生的事情方面，有哪些具体的方式？

What are some individual ways that astrology has helped people cope with what's been going on in our world?

我认为不同的人受到的影响在生活的不同领域表现得更明显。

I think that there's different people that it hit different areas of their life harder.

有些人，占星术对他们的关系造成了极大的冲击。

I mean, there's some people where it hit their relationships really hard.

另一些人则在事业上受到严重影响，打乱了他们正在推进的计划。

There's other people where it hit their career very hard and impacted interrupted things they were working on.

还有一些人，占星术对他们与父母、子女或兄弟姐妹的关系影响最大。

There's other people where there were other relationships in their life with their parents or children or siblings that it impacted the most.

有时候，能够通过另一种视角看到他们所经历的一些事情其实反映在他们的星盘中，表明这些能量最可能在某个领域集中爆发，这本身就很有帮助，能让人在当时获得一些洞察，从而更好地应对问题或困难。

And sometimes just being able to see through a different lens how some of the things they've been experiencing were actually reflected in their chart and showed up indicating that that would be the area where they might experience the brunt of some of those energies at the time was just helpful in terms of getting some perspective on that at the time and working through whatever the issue was or whatever the hardship was at the time.

好的。

Okay.

所以如果我理解得没错，你是在说：确实，我的关系这段时间特别艰难，而你能告诉我：根据你的星盘，这段时间正是你重新定义关系的时期。

So if I'm hearing you correctly, it's okay, this has been really tough on my relationships and you're able to tell me okay in your chart this is a time where you're defining those relationships.

拥有更宏观的视角，同时我认为或许还能让它成为我生命中的某种意义，而不仅仅是一场随机的困难。

It's having that broader picture but also I think maybe making it apply as a purpose to my life, not just this random difficulty.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得，如果是随机的困难，人就会问：为什么是我？

Like, I think random difficulty leads to why me?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，世界上最令人不安、最绝望的感觉之一，就是觉得世界就是一个随机的、无意义的地方，事情只是发生在你身上，没有任何真正的规律或理由。

I think one of the most sort of uncomfortable, hopeless feelings in the world is that the world is just like this random, meaningless place where stuff just happens to you and there's no real rhyme or reason to it.

但占星术提供的一种非常独特的视角，或者说它从古代世界带来的观点是：命运并不只是消极、压迫或沉重的东西，有时它也能揭示一个人生命中更宏大的意义和目的。

But one of the really unique viewpoints that astrology gives or that it brings, I think, from the ancient world where they had much more intricate and sort of interesting conceptualizations of fate and fate not just being something that was negative or overbearing or oppressive, but could sometimes indicate broader narratives of meaning and purpose in a person's life.

我认为，重要的是去探索和识别一个人生命中更大的叙事，理解为什么某些事件会在特定时间发生。

I think importing and trying to identify the larger narrative of person's life and why certain events are taking place at other times.

即使我们正经历生命中某扇门被关闭，也可能有其他门在未来开启，这些困难背后或许存在某种积极或建设性的原因，我认为这种视角非常有用，否则你可能无法获得。

And that even if we're experiencing something where a door is being shut on one part of our life or one relationship that might be opening up other doors in the future and there might be some sort of productive or constructive reason for some of these difficulties, I think that's really useful perspective to have that you might not be able to have otherwise.

所以你一直强调生命中更宏大的意义，以及事情发生的原因。

So you keep hitting on this theme of a broader purpose to life, the reason why things are happening.

我认为这是所有人类都会问的普遍问题，对吧？

And I think that's the universal thing all humans ask, right?

我们所追寻的东西。

What we seek for.

你是什么时候意识到，自己正是通过占星术找到了这些答案的？

When did it hit you that you were finding that through astrology?

我觉得很早就有这种感觉了，因为我会回溯过去，大多数占星师刚接触这一领域时，都会回头查看自己直到那时的人生历程，审视生活中发生过的事件，然后对照当时行星的排列情况。

I think relatively early on because I would go back and one of the first things I think most astrologers do when they get into it is they go back and look at their past life chronology up to that point and they look at some of the events in their life that occurred and then they look and see what the alignment of the planets were at that time.

真正令人震惊的是，通常当你查阅占星书籍中对各种星象组合的象征意义解读时，它们竟然会与你过去的人生事件完全吻合，这会让你猛然意识到，到目前为止你生命中的大部分经历，都以一种奇特的方式与你出生星盘中的重大行星排列相对应。

And what's really striking about that is usually the symbolic meaning of just if you look up the interpretation of different things in the astrology books of what certain alignments are supposed to mean will actually then match up with your past life events which ends up being a really startling realization that much of your life up to this point has been indicated or has correlated in this really weird way with major planetary alignments in your birth chart.

所以，当你做了这样的分析并有了这种顿悟，然后在继续独立生活、经历各种事件的同时，持续观察到这些模式和关联不断重现，我認為這會強化一種感覺：這裡面一定有某種非常異常的東西在發生，按常理來說本不該如此，但卻確實發生了。

So I think when you do that and have that realization and then continue to practice astrology while living your life somewhat independently and having different types of events take place in your life, but then continuing to see some of those patterns and correlations play out, I think it just helps to reinforce that there's something very weird going on here that perhaps for any normal person shouldn't be happening, but for some reason it is.

因此，很难不对这种现象产生兴趣或着迷，也很难不渴望尽可能深入地学习和理解它。

And so it's kind of hard to not be interested or or fascinated by that and to wanna learn and understand it as best as you can.

所以这意味着，根据星象，我的人生将会是某种特定的样子，而我只能接受吗？

So does that mean based on the stars, my life's gonna be a certain way and that's just how it is?

不。

No.

我的意思是，虽然有一部分事情或某些事超出了你的控制，但也有许多事情是你个人意志的体现，我们每个人都会做出影响并显著改变人生轨迹的选择。

I mean, because while part of it or some things are gonna be outside of your control, some things are also gonna be acts of personal volition and we all make choices that impact and alter the course of our life in very significant ways.

占星术有时会因为某种神秘的原因，提前预知那些关键转折点的到来——那时你将做出一个重要的选择，决定你人生的方向。

It's just the astrology sometimes for some mysterious reason tends to know ahead of time when some of those pivotal turning points are gonna take place where you're gonna make an important choice that's gonna take you direction or another.

这正是其中的奥秘所在，也是它吸引人的地方。

And that's part of the mystery, but also the thing that's interesting about it.

假设在未来一年里，我即将面临一个非常重要的选择。

So let's say I have a really important choice coming up in this next year for me.

这是一个关键时刻，我必须做出一个极其重要的决定。

It's a time, it's a pivotal time, I have a super important choice to make.

占星术如何帮助我为这个选择做好准备，而不是让我感到压力？

How does astrology help me become prepared for that rather than pressurized by it?

只是让你大致了解一些象征性或普遍性的信息，比如在未来一年中，你生活中最重大的选择或最重要的领域可能会集中在这四到五个方面。

Just by giving you some idea that in a broad archetypal or general sense that some of the most important choices or most important areas of your life that are going to be activated in the coming year are going to be this, let's say, selection of four or five areas.

因此，你的大部分注意力很可能都会放在这些领域上，未来十二个月内你所做的最重要决定也大多会发生在这些领域中。

And so that most of your focus is probably going to be on those areas and most the important choices that you're going to make is going to happen in that area over the course of the next twelve months.

一旦你了解了这些大致范围，你就可以有时更精准地聚焦于你预期将要发生的事情，比如在某些时期，某些领域可能非常积极且顺利，而在其他时期则可能相对具有挑战性。

Once you know that and know the general range of things, you can maybe sometimes narrow down what you focus on or what you anticipate is coming up as either really constructive and really easy areas of your life during certain periods or otherwise somewhat challenging areas of your life during other periods.

但提前有一点预知，有时能让你提前做好准备，不至于对任何事情都毫无防备。

But having a little bit of foreknowledge sometimes just gives you a head heads up ahead of time so you're not completely caught off guard by anything.

听起来就像是你有一张地图。

It's like it sounds to me like it's like having a map.

你大概知道自己的方向，而不是盲目猜测。

You kind of have an idea of where you're going instead of just guessing.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这个比喻非常贴切。

I think that's a really good analogy.

它确实是一张地图，而出生图在希腊语中就是这么称呼的，本质上就是一种地图，或者说是对它的简略说法。

It is a map and actually the birth chart that was the Greek term for it as they would call it like a map basically or that was like a shorthand term for it.

用地图来比喻占星术也很恰当，因为地图能提供一种俯瞰全局的视角，让你看到地形的全貌，以及从A点到B点的大致路线。

And it's a good analogy of using a map for astrology also because a map does give you a top down view of everything, like a bird's eye view of the landscape and the general outlines of where to go in order to get from point A to point B.

但与此同时，它并不能提供全部信息。

But at the same time, it doesn't give you everything.

它不像水晶球那样能精确预知未来，也不像电影那样展示即将发生的一切；真正身处其中、亲历这些事件时，体验会截然不同，你会以更细腻的方式亲眼见证它们的展开。

It's not like looking at a crystal ball into exactly or like a movie of exactly what will happen and there's still a quite different experience of actually being there and living through those events firsthand and seeing them come alive in a much more nuanced fashion once you actually experience them.

所以我认为这个比喻非常恰当，因为它既突出了占星术的优势，也揭示了它的局限性。

So I think that's a really good analogy because it highlights both the advantages but also some of the limitations of astrology.

是的，你提到的这一点正是我一直想问你的问题：你知道，我拿到的占星图上写着‘这是你的星座’，

Yeah, it's not So you hit on something that was a question I I couldn't wait to ask you, and that's what's the difference between, you know, the astrology chart I get where it says, here's your sign.

然后列出你需要关注的这些事情。

These are the things you need to look at.

你的星座是根据大约一个月来确定的，对吧？

It's like, you know, your sign is based on roughly a month, right?

在那一个月内的任何一天，和一个出生图相比。

Anywhere in there versus a birth chart.

对于不了解出生图的人来说，那是什么？它和我们通常知道的每月星座预测有什么不同？

For someone who doesn't know what a birth chart is, what is that and how does it compare with what a lot of us know as our signs predictions for the month?

当然。

Sure.

最基本的星座是你的太阳星座，它仅根据你出生的月份来确定，意味着任何在这个月内出生的人都会拥有太阳落在黄道十二宫中的一个星座。

So the basic one, which is your Sun sign, just indicates it's just based on the month you were born and it indicates that anybody born within that one month time span would have the Sun in one of 12 signs of the zodiac.

但这种说法有些局限，因为它只考虑了太阳系中的一个天体——太阳；而实际上，太阳系中还有九到十个其他行星，包括月亮，它们各自以不同的速度穿过黄道十二宫，停留的时间也各不相同。

But the difference between that which is somewhat limited because it's just taking into account one celestial body in our solar system which is the Sun, but then you realize that there's nine or 10 other planets in the solar system besides the Sun including the Moon, and each of them moves at different speeds or moves at different rates through the signs of the zodiac and spends different amounts of time there.

有些行星移动得非常快，比如月亮，它在每个星座中只停留大约两到三天，因此你的月亮星座可能和太阳星座不同，这会反映出与太阳星座不同的性格特征。

Some of them move really quickly like the Moon only spends about two or three days in each sign of the zodiac, so that can be in one of 12 different signs for you and it's gonna indicate something different about your personality than your Sun sign.

还有其他行星，比如火星，它在每个星座中停留两年半，绕行整个黄道十二宫需要两年半的时间，因此它在每个星座中大约停留一个月，有时甚至两个月。

And then there's other planets like Mars spends two and a half years in each It takes two and a half years to go around all 12 signs, so it spends about a month or so in each, sometimes two months.

木星在每个星座停留一年，土星在每个星座停留大约两到三年。

Jupiter spends a year in each sign, Saturn spends about two or three years in each sign.

因此，不同的行星以不同的速度穿过黄道十二宫，这些因素共同构成了一个比只关注单一变量更细致、更详尽的人生与个性图景。

So there's different planets that are moving around at different speeds through the different signs of the zodiac, and those all give you different variables that make up a much more nuanced and detailed picture of your life and your personality compared to just paying attention to one single variable.

是的。

Yeah.

我有个朋友做过自己的星盘，但把出生时间弄错了。

So I had a friend who did their birth chart, and they had their time of birth wrong.

他说：‘这完全说不通。’

And they were like, oh, this doesn't make any sense.

但当他纠正了出生时间后，一切都对上了。

And then when they got their time right, it was zeroed in.

为什么仅仅是同一天、同地点，相差几个小时的时间，会造成这么大的差异？

Why does that little bit like same day, same place, that little bit of time of hours make such a big difference?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这有点难解释，但出生时间与上升星座有关，上升星座是指每天早晨太阳升起时，黄道带上恰好升到东方地平线上的那个星座。

I mean, it's it's a little hard to explain, but the time of birth is tied into the rising sign, which is the sign of the zodiac that was rising up over the eastern horizon where the Sun rises each morning.

而这个黄道星座实际上是你最个人化的星座，因为上升星座大约每两小时就会变化一次。

And that sign of the zodiac actually turns out to be the most personal one to you because the Ascendant or the rising sign changes about every two hours.

所以它移动得非常快。

So it moves very rapidly.

这意味着，由于它在十二星座间快速移动，它对你来说是最独特的那个。

So that means because it moves so rapidly through the 12 signs of the zodiac, it's actually the most unique one for you.

相比之下，比如太阳星座，同一个月出生的人太阳星座都一样；月亮星座也是如此，比如在两三天内出生的人月亮星座也相同；但上升星座每天只在一个小时或两小时内保持不变。

Whereas for example, the Sun sign, the Sun will be the same for everybody born in the same month or the Moon sign will be the same for everybody born during a, let's say, two or three day period, whereas the rising sign only stays true for like an hour or two each day.

因此，从这个角度看，它更加独特，也与你个人的联系更加紧密。

So it's much more unique in that way and much more personally tied in with you.

但这引出了另一种占星学分支，即校正，当一个人不知道自己的确切出生时间，或只知道大概时间时，占星师可以与他们进行大约两小时的咨询，询问他们生活中的各种事件。

But that brings up another type of astrology or branch which is rectification, which is when a person doesn't know their birth time or they only know it approximately, an astrologer can sit down with them for let's say a two hour consultation and ask them questions about their life.

经过这两小时的交流后，占星师可以相当可靠地反向推算出一个人的出生时间，依据是他们迄今为止人生中发生的事件。

At the end of that two hour process, a person can somewhat reliably reverse engineer what time a person was born based on the events that occurred so far in their life.

因此，这是占星术的另一个分支，一些占星师专门致力于帮助人们确定他们正确的上升星座或出生时间，方法是根据他们迄今为止的人生经历进行逆向推算。

So that's another branch of astrology that some astrologers specialize in is just helping people to identify what their correct rising sign is or what time they were born based on reverse engineering it based on the the events that have occurred so far in their life.

是的。

Yeah.

这很有趣，因为有人曾问我：如果你不知道自己确切的出生时间，该怎么办？

That's interesting because I've have had people ask me, what do you do if you don't if you don't know what time you were born?

所以你能通过这种方式找到出生时间，真的非常有趣。

So that's really, really interesting that you can find that out.

我还想知道，在采访其他占星师的过程中，最让你感到奇妙或惊讶的是什么？

I also want to know what has been the most fascinating or surprising thing you have found out interviewing other astrologers?

我在采访其他占星师时发现的最奇妙、最令人惊讶的事情是，占星术似乎像一种语言。

The most fascinating or surprising thing that I found out in interviewing other astrologers is just that astrology seems to act as like a language.

古代美索不达米亚的许多占星师曾提出一个类比：占星术就像书写在天空中的一门语言，诸神通过星辰和行星的运行向人类传递信息。

And many ancient astrologers in ancient Mesopotamia, they had this analogy that astrology was like a language that was written across the sky and that it was kind of like the gods were communicating to humankind through the movement of the stars and the planets.

有趣的是，在现代，占星术确实像一种语言，它有多种应用方式，同时存在许多不同的占星流派和传统，有时它们会发展出自己独特的应用方法，虽然运作方式截然不同，但依然有效。

And what's interesting about that in modern times is that astrology does seem to act as a language and that there's many different ways that you can use it, just in applications of astrology, but there's many different schools and traditions of astrology where sometimes they'll develop their own unique applications of the subject that still work but work in ways that are very different.

我认为最好的类比就是语言，一旦你学会了一门语言，有时它会逐渐发生变化，但仍然保持自身的内在一致性。

And I think it's kind of like the best analogy is a language where once you learn a language, sometimes there can be drift and it can change but still be consistent in and of itself.

就像在欧洲，虽然地域面积不大，但一旦跨越不同国界，就会突然出现讲完全不同语言的人，比如法语、德语、西班牙语等等。

Sort of like how in Europe you have a relatively small area of land, but when you go across different boundaries, there will all of a sudden be people speaking very different languages like French, German, Spanish, what have you.

占星界也有类似的情况，存在各种不同的占星体系，尽管它们的形式、语法和结构不同，但都有效。

There's something similar in the astrological community where there's different types of astrology that all work even if they have a different form of, like, syntax and structure.

我喜欢这种观点，即它像一门语言，你们都在研究它，因此你们有共同的基础可以依托。

So I like that, that it's this language and you're all studying it, so you have this base to work from.

对吧？

Right?

那么对于不了解这些不同占星流派的人来说，你最核心的关注点是什么？

So for someone who doesn't understand all these different branches of astrology, what is your most singular focus?

我最核心的关注点主要是命盘占星，也就是根据一个人出生时行星的排列位置来分析，认为这能揭示其生命本质乃至未来走向。

My most singular focus is primarily natal astrology, which is just that application of looking at the alignment of the planet at the moment a person was born under the premise that that'll tell you something about the nature of their life as well as their future.

我认为，最基本来说，这就是我的主要焦点。

I think at the most basic, that's my primary focus.

这很有趣，因为观看你的一些内容时，你提到大多数占星师会说，这是给天秤座的。

So that's interesting because in watching some of your things you talk about, most astrologers say, this is for a Libra.

这是给白羊座的。

This is for an Aries.

这是给处女座的。

This is for Virgo.

而你却说，这是给这个人的，以及这个上升星座的。

And you talk about this is for this person and that rising sign.

为什么这一点如此重要？

What why is that so significant?

因为上升星座与一种古老的技巧或概念有关，这个概念大约在公元前一世纪被引入，通过确定上升星座，你可以建立一组称为‘宫位’或‘星盘分区’的12个区域，将星盘划分为12个部分，分别对应个人生活的不同领域。

Just because the rising sign, it's connected with, this ancient technique or concept that was introduced around the first century BCE where you determine what the rising sign is and then that helps you to establish a set of 12 what's called houses or sectors of the chart that divides the chart into 12 secondtions that pertain to different areas of person's life.

这12个领域包括身体、财务、沟通、家庭与居住环境、子女、工作、关系、共享资源、旅行、事业、朋友，以及敌人或与你合不来的人。

And the 12 areas are things like body, finances, communication, home and living situation, children, work, relationships, shared resources, travel, career, friends, and enemies or people that you don't get along with.

一旦你知道了上升星座，就能确定这12个星盘区域，从而能够更具体地预测：在未来一年中，随着行星的运行，哪些生活领域会变得更加活跃，并成为该时期的主要关注点。

And once you know the rising sign, you can establish those 12 areas of the chart and that allows you to make much more specific statements depending on where the planets will be over the course of the next year, which areas of the person's life are going to be more active and become more of the focus during the course of that period of time.

因此，它能提供更具体的未来预测或展望。

So it allows for much more specific sort of forecasts or predictions about the future.

你说这12个领域，就像你列的那些，我想，这都是对我们每个人最重要的事情。

So you say the 12 areas, which are only as you listed them, I'm thinking, all the most important things to all of us.

对吧？

Right?

那这比你的太阳星座更重要吗？

That's And so is that more important than your Sun sign?

是的，我会这么认为。

Yeah, would say so.

我认为，虽然太阳星座可能很重要，但对于白天出生的人来说，太阳星座尤其重要。

I think while your Sun sign can be important, the Sun sign is especially going to be more important for people who are born during the day.

而如果一个人是在夜间出生的——无论是日出前还是日落后——他们的月亮星座实际上对他们来说更重要。

Whereas actually if a person was born at night either before sunrise or after sunset, their Moon sign is actually more important to them.

但无论你是白天还是夜间出生，上升星座始终是最独特的，而宫位系统仍然是预测个人生活具体事项的最佳方法。

But whether you're born during the day or at night, your rising sign is still going to be the most unique and the houses are going to be the best way to approach specific predictions about a person's life.

你能告诉我们一个例子吗？有人来找你，对占星术一无所知，但在了解占星术和你的工作后，帮助他们意识到某个特定事件或决定，从而改变了他们的人生方向，而如果没有这些，他们可能根本不会做出这样的选择。

So can you tell us a time when someone came to to you, didn't know much about astrology and learning about astrology and what you do and about themselves helped them realize a specific event or specific decision that changed the direction of their life that maybe they wouldn't have had otherwise.

我的最佳类比，或者说最贴切的例子，就是我第一次遇到我伴侣的时候。那天我们在图书馆碰面，我们俩都是在一次占星活动上认识的，那已经是十三年，甚至十四年前的事了。

I mean, the the best, like, analogy I can actually come up with for for that or best example of that that that kinda comes to mind is when I first met my partner, we were hanging out at a library one day and we're both astrologers that met at an astrology meeting and this was like twelve It's actually thirteen or fourteen years ago.

我们互相看了对方的星盘，简单评论了几句，我针对她的星盘说了几点看法。

And we looked at each other's charts and just made a few comments and I made a few statements about her chart.

她当时非常坦率，直接说：'这完全不对，跟我过去的人生经历毫无关系。'

And she was actually very open about it and very blunt about it and just being like, That is not true and has no relation to anything that's occurred in my life up to this point.

我当时就说：'好吧，真遗憾，我们走着瞧吧。'

And I was like, Okay, that's too bad, we'll see what happens.

有趣的是，在过去十年里，她独立地走上了一条特定的职业道路，而我当初说过的许多话，竟然都应验了——并不是因为她想让它们成真，或者受到我的话影响，而是完全独立地，她的生活就这样发展成了那样，尽管在此之前从未如此。

And what's funny is quite independently of anything else over the past decade, she ended up going on a specific career path and most of the things that I ended up saying ended up working out not because she wanted them to or was influenced by anything I had said, but quite independently of that just like that's where her life ended up going, but it hadn't up until that point.

这成了我们之间一个有趣的笑谈，我时不时会在播客里提起这件事，逗她玩。比如，她后来成为了一个重要占星组织的负责人，那是全球主要的占星组织之一。

And it's sort of a funny running joke to us that I get to bring up then over again on the podcast just to sort of mess with her from time to time that for example, she became the head of a major astrological organization, that's one of the major astrology organizations around the world.

她当上了主席，但在那之前，她从未参与过任何社区组织工作。

She became the president of it and up to that point she hadn't done any community organizing efforts.

所以我的话虽然不准确，但我当时捕捉到了一些在未来会成为她生活中重要部分的东西。

So my statement wasn't true, but I was picking up on something that would become important in her life at some point.

但我总是想到这个例子，因为它并没有真正推动她走向那个方向，也没有太多影响她，相反，她几乎是被一股暗流或洋流卷入了那个领域，就像被带向了一个原本没想到的方向，即使这个方向最终在某种程度上是幸运的。

But I always think of that example just because it didn't really push her in that direction or influence her too, but instead she was dragged into that area almost like being picked up in a riptide or an ocean current or something that takes you in a direction you're not originally anticipating that you'll go, even if that direction ends up being fortuitous in some way.

是的。

Yeah.

听起来这违背了她的意愿或愿望，对吧？当时就是这样。

It sounds like it was against her against her will or wishes, right, like, at the time.

那就是正在发生的事。

It it's what was happening.

对。

Yeah.

因为这最终变成了很多工作。

Because it ended up being, like, a lot of work.

我的意思是，这非常重要，后来她也因此在社群中获得了奖项和赞誉。

I mean, it was very important, and she ended up winning awards and, like, accolades in the community later as a result of that.

但当时她确实承担了沉重的负担，从事着社区服务工作，而那时她的职业生涯还远未准备好面对这样的任务，但最终这成了她做过的最好的事情之一，尽管她其实是无意中踏入了这个领域。

But it was definitely taking on a big burden and doing sort of community service work at the time at a stage in her career where she wasn'tdidn't think she was fully prepared to do that, but it ended up being ultimately a good thing that she did even though she kind of stumbled into it in the end.

所以你说她是无意中踏入的，但你其实早就知道这件事会发生。

So you say stumbled into it, you knew it was coming.

她自己其实也有个想法。

She had I to had an idea.

我当时只是在看星盘，然后根据星盘上的信息说出来，它似乎表明，参与团体活动和社会运动将成为她生活中的重要部分，尤其是那些与她的信仰和哲学兴趣相关的活动，其中最主要的一个就是占星术。

I was just reading the chart and I was just saying what the chart said and it seemed to be indicating that working in groups and for social movements would become an important part of her life, especially ones that were tied in with her beliefs and her philosophical interests, one of the primary ones of which was astrology.

所以这其实是对她星盘位置的一个非常直接的解读。

So it like a pretty straightforward interpretation of the placement in her chart.

只是这件事还没发生而已。

It just hadn't happened yet.

这太棒了。

That's so great.

我太喜欢了。

I love that.

对于那些对占星术不太了解、正在探索它、想知道它如何影响自己生活的人——尤其是那些处于边缘立场的人——最重要的是什么？

So for someone who doesn't really know much about astrology, is looking into it, wants to know how it can affect their lives, kind of someone on the fringe, what's the most important thing for them to know?

我认为最重要的是尽量获取准确的出生时间。

I think the most important thing is just to try to get ahold of an accurate birth time.

试着弄清楚你的出生时间，因为这是大多数星盘和占星师所用高级技术的基础，你可以问问父母是否记得，或者更好的办法是通过出生证明查找你的出生时间，然后访问一个网站。

Try to see if you can figure out your birth time because that's the foundation of most of the birth chart and most of the techniques that astrologers use in terms of advanced techniques either by asking your parents if they remember or better yet trying to find your birth time from your birth certificate and then going to a website.

如今有很多免费的网站和应用程序，你可以用它们来计算你的星盘。

There's lots of free websites and apps out there today that you can access in order to calculate your birth chart.

我建议你从这一点开始，这样你就能准确地看到占星师用来评估占星术是否有道理的同一份星盘。

And I would just recommend doing that as a starting point so that you are accurately looking at the same thing that astrologers do in order to assess whether or not there seems to be anything to astrology.

最好的测试方法是先完成这一步，然后回顾你过去的生活，看看在人生重要转折点发生时，行星的位置如何，并确认那些时刻是否与你的出生星盘存在重要的行星相位。

And the best test is to do that and then go back through your past life and look at events and where the planets were at those different times when important turning points in your life occurred and see if there were important planetary alignments with your birth chart at that time.

我认为，一旦你这样做了，就会为你奠定基础，有时还会意外地为你打开一个全新的世界。

And I think once you do that, it'll set a foundation and sort of open up a whole new world for you sometimes unexpectedly.

但一旦你亲眼见过，就很难再忽视它了。

But once you've seen it, it's kind of hard to hard to look away.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这很好。

I I think that's good.

为了学习，需要去亲身体验。

It's in order to learn experience it.

你其实就是这个意思，对吧？

That's really what you're saying, right?

我还要补充一点，别盲目相信你妈妈，因为我妈妈给我的时间最后和我出生证明上的时间不一样。

And I'm going to add, necessarily don't trust your mother because my mother gave me a time that ended up being different than what was on my birth certificate.

那么，人们可以通过哪些方式找到准确的出生时间呢？

So what are some ways people can find that out?

是的，这非常常见，因为实际上大多数占星师都会不断建议人们不要依赖父母的记忆，除非别无选择，因为在分娩过程中通常有很多事情发生，有时还会使用镇静剂之类的药物，所以如果有其他选择，最好不要依赖父母的记忆。

Yeah, that's really common because actually most astrologers are constantly encouraging people to not rely on the parents' memories unless you don't have a choice because there's usually so much going on during the process of birth and sometimes there can be sedatives involved and stuff like that where it's not a good idea to rely on the parents' memory if you have a choice.

最好的办法是获取一份你的出生证明，最好是原件。

So the best thing is to get a copy of your birth certificate, especially an original copy.

通常在这个时候，你可以访问一些网站，向州政府申请获取一份原始出生证明的副本，他们会寄给你一份。

And usually there's websites you can go to at this point where you can order a copy from the state and they'll send you like a copy of the original birth certificate and that'll have it.

通常这是最好的方法。

Usually that's the best thing.

其他时候，如果你有婴儿手册之类的东西，有时上面会记录着出生时间，或者其他出生记录也可能有。

Other times, sometimes if you have like a baby book or something like that, sometimes it'll be written on that or some other birth record.

好的。

Okay.

太好了。

That's great.

当你解释上升星座变化如此频繁时，我意识到这些时间点确实非常重要。

When you explained how the rising sign changes so often, it occurred to me how important those times really actually are.

现在我们要转向另一个极端，针对那些自认为对占星学很了解，甚至研究占星学的人。

So now we're gonna go to the other end of spectrum for someone who thinks they know a lot about astrology or even studies astrology.

我觉得你分享的这个故事很有趣，你提到你和一位同行占星师讨论星盘时，他们并没有注意到那些细节。

I find it interesting this story you shared, you were sharing things about a chart with a fellow astrologer that you were seeing that they weren't.

那么对于那些研究占星术或身处这个领域的人，他们最需要了解的一些关键点是什么？

So for someone who studies it or is in the space, maybe what are some of the most important things for them to know?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，与其他占星师交流非常有帮助，尤其是那些实践方法与你不同的占星师，这能让你看到之前可能从未注意到的新视角。

I think just having conversations with other astrologers, especially ones that don't necessarily practice the approach that you practice can be really helpful and can really open your eyes up to new perspectives that you maybe hadn't seen before.

我上大学时的经历就是如此：在学习占星术的前四五年，我只接触现代占星术，并且坚信这才是最好的方法。

That was part of my experience going to college was I I started learning modern astrology for the first four or five years of my study studies, and I was very adamant about that being the best approach.

但当我进入学校后，他们强迫我开始学习古希腊和古罗马占星术，以及古印度占星术。

And when I went to school, they sort of forced me to start taking some courses on ancient Greek and Roman astrology as well as ancient Indian astrology.

起初我强烈反对，因为当时我的观念是，这些古老的方法已经过时、不再相关，毕竟我们后来发现了新的行星，生活也发生了巨大变化，两千年前的东西怎么可能还有用？

And at first I protested it because my conceptualization at the time was that those older approaches were old and outdated and no longer relevant because we had discovered new planets since then and life had changed so much that there's no way that something from two thousand years ago could be relevant.

但最终我的反抗失败了，他们只是说：‘没办法，你得硬着头皮上这门课，不然你过不了关，毕不了业。’

But eventually my protest kind of failed and they were just like, Tough, suck it up and take the course otherwise you're not gonna pass and graduate.

于是我照做了，很快我就意识到，自己对其他占星形式、尤其是古老形式的最初预设是错误的，实际上有很多被遗忘的智慧是可以重新找回并应用于现代占星术的。

So I did and very quickly realized that my initial presumptions about other forms of astrology, especially older forms, were wrong and that there were a number of things that had been lost that we could actually recover that would be useful for modern contemporary astrology.

我还意识到，当你开始阅读两千年前的古代文本时，那些文本中会分享出生星盘，有时像瓦迪乌斯·瓦伦斯这样的古代占星师会在他们的著作中分享自己的出生星盘，并讲述自己的人生故事，你会很快意识到，今天的生活其实与那时非常相似，因为生活的根本领域——如人际关系、父母、事业、旅行、沟通、财务等——并没有发生太大变化。

And I also realized that when you start reading some of the ancient texts from two thousand years ago where they're sharing birth charts and sometimes the astrologers from back then like Vadius Valens will share their own birth chart in their text and talk about their life story, you realize very quickly that life today is actually very similar as it was back then because the fundamental areas of life haven't changed that much in terms of relationships, parents, your career, travel, communication, finances, stuff like that.

尽管细节有所改变，但核心内容大体上是一样的。

It's all largely the same even if the details have changed.

我想这就是为什么一个两千年前发展起来的体系至今仍然具有相关性，因为它们真正触及了生命核心原则中一些非常根本的东西。

And that's I think why a system that was developed two thousand years ago can still be relevant today because they actually tuned into something that was very fundamental about the core principles of life.

哇。

Wow.

这真是个绝佳的总结，所有这些都与我们共同的生命核心原则联系在一起，为我们提供了理解生命更深层意义的指引。

What a great place to end that this all ties together with our shared core principles of life and gives us a map for greater meaning and understanding of that.

没错。

Right.

非常感谢你今天与我们分享你的智慧、经验和知识。

So thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your experience and your knowledge with us today.

这真是一段非凡的旅程。

It's been quite a journey.

是的

Yeah.

谢谢。

Thank you.

感谢您今天邀请我。

Thanks for having me today.

我对这个系列感到兴奋，也很期待观看您做的其他访谈。

And I'm excited about this series, and I'm excited to see the other interviews you've done as well.

哇。

Wow.

克里斯简直让我大开眼界。

Chris kind of blew my mind.

当他谈到回归古老的占星术，并且发现它与我们今天的生活如此紧密相连时，你不觉得这很迷人吗？

Didn't you think it was fascinating when he talked about going back to ancient, ancient astrology and how it really ties in with our lives today?

古人怎么可能知道，他们所经历的会与我们如今的经历有如此多的共通之处，还能从中获得这么多启示？

How could the ancients have known that what they went through would have so much in common with what we go through and what we could learn from it?

非常感谢观看，希望你和我一样从中收获颇丰。

Thanks so much for watching I hope you got as much out of it as I did.