占星、命运与天命

对，但其中一部分是，一旦你意识到这个系统，就会有试图控制它的冲动。

Well, and part of that though is that there's an impulse to attempt to control it Mhmm.

一旦你意识到这个系统。

Once you become aware of this system.

但随着时间的推移，随着你对技巧越来越熟练，你也会学到一件事：虽然你可能在某些时候能把事情往不同方向推一把，但你也会开始明白，有很多事情是你无法控制的，你未必能改变或做些什么，因为那些是你生活中的外部环境，是你环境中发生的事情，它们与你的选择无关，是降临到你身上的。

But then over time, one of the things you also learn as you get better with the techniques is that while you may be able to nudge things in different directions at certain points, you also begin to learn that there's a wide range of things that are outside of your control that you can't necessarily change or do anything about because of the the external circumstances in your life, the things that happen in your environment that don't have to do with your choices that that befall you.

而且，你并不总能控制的外部环境中，很大一部分是你身边的人。

But also a huge part is part of your external circumstances that you don't always have control over is the people around you.

这包括你生活中的人，比如家人、伴侣、朋友。

That includes like the people in your life, like family members, relationships, friends.

但也可能包括星盘里的其他宫位，比如同事、邻居、兄弟姐妹，甚至是你合不来的人，或者敌人。

But it can also include like, you know, all the other houses in the chart, which is like coworkers, neighbors, siblings, even like people you don't get along with or like enemies.

你生活中有一个由其他人组成的完整网络，他们的生活与你的生活相互交织，这也是其中的一部分。所以，你越学占星，就越意识到你无法控制一切，也无法事无巨细地管理一切，因为有时候会发生一些事情，与星体的运行或你星盘的其他激活相吻合，而那完全是你无法控制的，你做什么都无法改变，因为那并不是出于你个人的意愿或选择。

There's this whole matrix of like other people in your life and the way that their lives interact with yours that is also part of things so that the more you learn astrology, the more you realize you can't control everything and you can't micromanage everything because sometimes something will happen that will coincide with the transits or other activations of your chart that was just like completely beyond your control and there's nothing that you could have done to change that because it didn't happen as a result of your personal volition or choices.

没错。

Exactly.

而且这又是另一件事，你有点……

And that's another thing that you sort of...

这需要你转变一下观念，尤其是如果你一开始是抱着星盘反映你整个人和你的心理这样的想法来的，觉得它就是你的一切。

That requires a change in orientation, least if you came from, you know, beginning with the idea that the chart is a reflection of you and your psyche as a whole, and like it is all of you.

不是说这种看法完全没有道理。

And there's it's not that there aren't some truths in that.

你也可以那样看，确实能看到一些有价值的东西。

Like, you can look at it that way too, you know, and see some valid things.

但是，你知道，古代的概念是，这些不同的宫位代表了你生活中不同的人和事，它们有自己的时间安排，不管你做什么，这就是你刚才说的意思。

But, you know, the ancient conceptualization was that all of these different specific houses represented all these different people and things in your life, and they have their own timing regardless of what you do, which is what you were getting at.

你知道，有些事情会发生，甚至都不……

You know, things can arise that just don't even...

它们……

They...

你看到它们发生，因为它们出现在你的世界里，但它们不一定是你自己能够改变的。

You see them happening because they're in your world, but they're not things that you yourself could have, like, made, you know, different necessarily.

比如有些……

Like some...

如果你的父母、兄弟姐妹，甚至宠物出了什么事，这些都能在星盘上反映出来，而且就算你试着用占星术去干预，也不一定能完全掌控。

If something happens with your parents or your siblings or your, you know, even your pets, like, that can be reflected in the chart, and it's not something you can necessarily even micromanage even if you tried with the astrology.

你明白吗？

You know?

我的意思是，我不想把这点说得太绝对，因为我们确实也会用择时占星。

I mean, I don't wanna take that too far because we do use electional astrology as well.

所以也有在可能的时候试着推动事情发展的想法。

So there's the idea of trying to nudge things, you know, when you can.

但是……

But there...

我觉得大多数事情还是不受你控制的，这挺有意思的，因为一方面，乍一看可能会觉得有点沮丧，好像你对生活没有太多影响力，但其实我觉得这非常……

I would say the the preponderance is more things happening that are not in your control, which is interesting because, again, that can be on the one hand seen at first glance as like a, you know, depressing thought, like, that you don't have that much influence in your life, but I actually think it's it's a very...

人们通常是在对生活感到压力、无法掌控一切、无法改变所有想改变的事情时，才会想到“影响圈”这个概念。

People often come to the idea of spheres of influence when they are stressed out about their lives and not being able to manage everything, not being able to change everything they'd like to change.

我觉得影响力范围其实是一个非常健康、现实地看待世界运作方式的想法。

And I think spheres of influence is actually like a very healthy realistic idea of how the world works.

因为说实话，我想到的是相反的观点，这在2000年代非常流行，就是那种几乎——我不知道该怎么说——自大狂式的观念，认为你是宇宙的中心，无论你的意志是什么，你都可以随意改变你的现实，就像《秘密》那类东西，你只要想一想或者用意念就能改变现实中的一切。

Because I mean the opposite honestly, which was really popular in the two thousands was like this almost like, I don't know what the word is, like megalomaniacal notion that like you're the center of the universe and like whatever your will is, you can just like change anything about your reality, like the secret and stuff like that that you can change anything about your reality just by thinking about it or by willing it to happen.

这很棘手，因为——我是说，讽刺的是，确实有些人这样做的效果更好，但那些人有时候是命中注定就有那种倾向，也许事情也更容易那样发展。

And it's tricky because I I mean, ironically, there's some people that that does work for more, but they are sometimes people where it's like fated for them to have that orientation more and maybe for things to work out more in that way.

但即使是那些人，也不能改变一切。

But even those people can't change everything.

所以这不仅仅是一种能让你完全扭曲现实的魔法力量，它是有局限性的。

So it's not just a magic power that allows you to bend reality entirely and there's limitations to it.

但是，是的，它确实会——

But, yeah, it does rep...

认为你能控制或操纵一切，确实带有某种程度的自我中心，而实际上大多数——

There's a certain, like, level of egotistical notion to think that, you can control or manipulate everything and that realistically most...

有——

There are...

生活中大多数事情，就你的处境而言，都是你无法控制的。

Most things are outside of your control in your life in terms of your circumstances.

即使是最有能力、最成功、最能实现自己意愿的人，在人生中某个时刻也会遇到一些情况，尽管他们再怎么希望、再怎么努力，总有些事情是他们无法改变的，那不是他们个人希望看到的结果。

And even the person who is, like, the most effective or has the greatest ability or success at, like, manifesting their own will during the course of their life will at some point run run up against some circumstance that despite their greatest wishes and like striving and attempts, there will be something that they just cannot change that is not their personal preference for what they want to see happen in their life.

但无论如何，他们必须学会以某种方式接受这一点。

But nonetheless, they have to learn to to accept that one way or another.

我认为这很重要，因为这很现实，也更符合人类存在的实际情况和本质。

And I think that is important because it is realistic and more realistic in terms of what human existence actually consists of and is is about.

即使人们宁愿认为自己能控制一切，这里说的控制一切，是指只强调生活中的好事，而否定所有……

Even if people would either like to think they they could control everything, which by control everything, we mean emphasize only good things in their life and and negate all all...

所有生活中的坏事。

Only negative things in their life.

人们愿意相信这是真的，或者希望有人告诉他们这是真的，因为这从个人角度，甚至有点自私的层面上，很有吸引力。

People would like to believe that that's true, or they would like to be told that that's true, because it's, like, it's, like, appealing on some, personal, almost like selfish level.

但现实是，情况未必如此。

But realistically, that's not necessarily the case.

而且我觉得这让我想到另外几件事。

And I think it makes me think of a couple more things.

其中一件就是，你知道，当你想到你的影响力范围，或者你能改变周围多少事情时，我会想到那些比如一生中都是重要活动家、并且因此非常出名的人。

One of which is, you know, there are when you think about your sphere of influence or, you know, how much you can change things around you, I think about people who, for instance, were, like, major activist figures in their lives and who became very famous for that.

但这件事本身也在他们的星盘里，你知道吗？

But that that in itself was also in their chart, you know?

所以，我的意思是，他们注定比普通人更有集体影响力，因为这在他们的星盘里，你知道吗？

So, I mean, they were like fated to, like, have more influence in the collective than the average person because that is in their chart, you know?

而且……

And...

或者你……

Or you...

也许你注定在你的社区里有影响力，比如说，所以你比隔壁公寓的普通人有更大的社区影响力。

Maybe you are fated to have influence in your neighborhood, for instance, and so you have more sphere of influence in the neighborhood than the average person in the apartment next to you.

你知道吗？

You know?

但是……

But...

你知道吗？

You know?

所以这并不会剥夺那些东西。

So it doesn't, like, take those things away either.

这只是你注定要成为的人或你人生道路本该如此的一部分。

It's just that it's part of who you were meant to be or what your life path was supposed to be about.

你提到了择时占星，所以值得聊聊这个话题。

And you mentioned electional astrology, so it's worth talking about that.

因为择时占星有趣的一点是，我们一直在……

Because one of the things that's interesting about electional astrology, which we've been...

你知道，我做这行已经差不多十五、快二十年了，过去十多年我们专业做这个，你越做择时占星，越会发现很快就能意识到有些事情是你控制不了的，你没法控制未来行星的位置，因为从来就没有一个完美理想的择时星盘，或者……

You know, I've been doing for, what, fifteen, almost twenty years now, and we've been doing a lot professionally over the past decade or more is just one of the things you learn about electional astrology the more you do it is the more you do electional astrology and and come to specialize in it, the more you realize very quickly like how much certain things are outside of your control and that you can't control where the planets are gonna be in the future because there's never any, like, perfectly ideal electional chart or...

因为每个择时星盘里总有些不对劲的地方，或者每个择时星盘都有点问题。

Because there's always something, like, wrong in every electional chart or some issue with each electional chart.

会有好的方面，你要尽可能去突出那些好的方面，但也会有一些不好的方面……

There's gonna be good things and you wanna emphasize the good things as much as you can, but there's also gonna be some bad things that...

那些你控制不了，但有时候你只能试着接受，或者决定你想把不好的放在哪里，把好的放在哪里。

And you can't control that, but you sometimes just try to accept or decide where you wanna put the bad things and where you wanna put the the good things.

但那个……

But that...

对于择时占星，虽然我们有很多规则，比如择时星盘最理想的条件是什么，但你不能等……

With electional astrology, even though we have a bunch of rules of, like, what are the most ideal things for an electional chart that you can't wait...

那种理想的择时星盘可能一百年都不会出现。

That that ideal electional chart may not occur for a hundred years.

所以结果就是，那个星盘根本不在你能等待的范围内，因为你必须今年开始，或者比如说未来两年、未来五年，甚至未来二十年，就算你有那么长的时间框架，那个一百年的星盘仍然不在你的选择范围内，你对此无能为力。

So as a result of that, that that chart is literally outside of the scope of what you can wait for because you've got to start something this year or let's say in the next two years, the next five years, even in the next twenty years, even if you had that long of a time frame, that hundred year chart is still outside of your choices and there's nothing you can do about that.

所以你的目标实际上就是在有限的选项里做到最好。

So your goal is actually then just to do the best you can with the limited options that are available to you.

所以这真的是一个很重要的教训。

So that's actually such an important lesson.

这也是为什么我建议人们先学本命占星，再学择时占星。因为虽然择时占星能帮你在有限的范围内找到最佳选择，但很快你就会发现，调整起来很有挑战性，而且你的选择范围可能比你最初预期的要有限得多。

It's one of the reasons why I recommend people learn electional astrology after learning natal because while it does allow you to get into then finding the best options within your limited range, it also very quickly can be challenging to adjust and to realize that your options are more limited than you might expect at first.

甚至有时候只有六个月的时间。

Or even something with like six months.

比如说，你看到六个月后有一个非常好的星盘，但你有一件事下个月就要完成。

Say like there's a very nice chart that you see in six months, but you have to do something that's due next month.

那你肯定等不了六个月去等那个好星盘。

Well, you're not gonna be able to wait six months for that really nice chart.

所以，你知道，这种情况非常实际，经常发生，你只能学着接受不完美，明白没有完美的星盘。

So, you know, it comes up very practically, you know, all of the time, and you just have to, like, learn to work with the imperfections and, like, understand there's no ideal chart.

而且，你知道，很有意思的是，你自己的时机、你的本命盘，和择时占星之间的相互作用。因为你可以说，好吧。

And also, you know, it's interesting the interplay between, like, your own timing with your own birth chart and using electional astrology because you can say, you know, okay.

我在这个时间段设置了一个择时星盘，当时我尽量把一切往积极的方向引导。

I I set up an electional chart during this time frame, and there I was trying to, you know, shape things as much as possible towards the positive.

但你的其他时机显示，你本来在这个时间段就要做一些重要的事情，你知道吗？

But your other timing says you were gonna do something important during this time anyway, you know?

所以这两者之间是有相互作用的，而且并不是非黑即白的。

So there is an interplay and it's not very like black or white.

因为还有其他问题，比如今年五月晚些时候，有一个非常棒的择时星盘，是我们今年最好的星盘之一，双子座有星群。

Because then there's other issues like later this in May, there's this like amazing electional chart that's one of our best charts of the year with like a stellium in Gemini.

但就我个人而言，那天我有一个不利的行运。

But I personally have like a negative transit that's happening that day.

所以对我来说，即使我用了那个本来很好的独立择时星盘，如果我用它来做重要的事情，可能对我个人会有一些负面影响，因为它和我自己的本命盘不太协调，因此也在某种程度上和我个人的命运不太协调。

So for me, even if I used what would otherwise be a great standalone electional chart, it would probably have some negative repercussions for me personally if I use it for a major thing because it doesn't line up well with my own natal chart and therefore my own like personal fate in some sense.

所以会有这样的问题。

So there's issues like that.

择时占星还会遇到其他问题，比如你可以选出一个很棒的择时星盘，然后准备好在那天启动你的大事，但到时候可能会有一些你无法控制的事情发生，导致你延迟，突然你就没法利用那个择时窗口了，因为那些你无法控制的力量，你错过了它。

Other issues run into with electional astrology is like you can pick out an amazing electional chart and then you can go and you're ready to launch your big thing on that day and then use it and then something comes up that's outside of your control that delays you and you suddenly aren't able to use that electional window and you've missed it due to forces that are outside of your control.

而且，偶尔在极端情况下，这种情况会发生，你会意识到有某种东西几乎像是在推动你或者阻止你去做你原本打算在那时做的事情。

And and occasionally in extreme circumstances that happens and you realize that there was something that was almost like pushing you or stopping you from doing the thing you were gonna do at that at that time.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

我也正想说这个，因为我也有过类似的经历。

I was gonna say that too because I've had that experience as well.

而且当这种情况真的发生时，如果你已经学会了择时占星，想用好的时机，结果突然有什么事情完全打断了你，让你没法用那个时刻，那种感觉真的很像是故意的。

And when it does happen, you know, if you're like in that position to have learned electional astrology, you know, trying to use good elections, and then you have that experience of like something just absolutely interrupting and causing you to like not be able to use that moment, it does feel very like deliberate.

就像是在想，为什么偏偏这个时候发生这种事？

It's like, why did that just happen?

你懂吧？

You know?

而且感觉就像是，你注定用不上那个好时机，真的。

And it's like, you were not you were not fated to use that good election, in fact.

我是说，我会主动去留意这些事情，看看它反而在把我推向哪里。

I mean, I I try to actively pay attention to those things and to see where it's pushing me instead.

而且这些年，你和我，我们有过几个特别典型的例子。

And I've had, you know, over the years, you and I, we've had a few really famous examples of that.

比如有一次我正要搬到国家的另一边，然后你和我以后就见不到了。

Like there was this one time I was about to move across the country and you and I then weren't gonna be able to see each other anymore.

我当时正想把所有的书寄到我朋友艾伦·怀特家去。

And I was trying to ship all of my books out to my friend's house to Alan White's house.

我打算搬出去和艾伦·怀特一起住，因为我在科罗拉多处境很糟，没地方住了。

I was gonna move out and live with Alan White cause I was in bad circumstances and I didn't have a place to live anymore in Colorado.

然后我试着把我打包好的五六箱书寄出去，把它们带到了邮局。

And, I tried to ship my five or six boxes of books that I had packed up and I took them to the post office.

结果他们说不。

And then they said, no.

因为一些无关紧要的理由，你不能寄这些。

You can't ship them for some trivial reason.

好像是因为我在书里塞了袜子。

It was like because I had packed socks Mhmm.

就是用来垫书的。

Like in the book thing to pad my books.

他们问我，盒子里装了什么？

And they had asked me, like, what do you have in the boxes?

我就说，你知道，书。

And I said, you know, books.

然后我……

And I...

你知道，所以里面有些袜子什么的。

You know, so there's some socks or something.

然后他们说，嗯，你不能用媒体邮件寄这个，那是折扣价。

And they're like, well, you can't send that through media mail, which is the discounted rates.

所以寄的话会花我太多钱。

So it's gonna cost me way too much to send it.

所以我只好回家，重新打包，第二天或者几天后再去。

So I had to go home and, like, repack it, like the next day or something like that or like a few days later.

然后我回去重新打包，用报纸什么的垫着。

And then I went back and I repacked it and I like packed it with a newspaper or something like that.

然后我又去了邮局，试着把书寄出去，开始搬到全国另一头的南卡罗来纳州，艾伦在那里。

And then I went back to the post office and tried to send the books to begin the process of moving all the way across the country to, like, South Carolina where Allen was.

然后他们说，好吧。

And then they're like, okay.

你这里面装了什么？

What do you got in here?

我就说，就是书，还有一些报纸什么的。

And I said that, you know, books and, you know, there's some newspaper or whatever.

然后他们说，不行。

And, like, they're like, well, no.

如果里面有报纸的话，就不能用媒体邮寄。

You can't ship via media mail if there's newspaper in it or like something like that.

基本上，他们又把我打发回去了，说有个什么小理由不能寄我的书。

And basically, they sent me back again saying there was some trivial reason that I couldn't ship my books.

我打电话给你，发消息给你，说有什么东西阻止我搬家，我不知道。这种情况发生了两三次。

And I called you, I messaged you and I was like, there's something stopping me from moving and I don't know And that happened like two or three times.

真是有点荒唐了。

Was getting kind of ridiculous.

第二次或第三次尝试之后，我一个朋友打电话给我，说他想联系我已经一个月了，但我一直没联系上，我以为他不会回我了。

Then after the second or third try, a friend of mine called me up and then said that I've been trying to get a hold of for a month, but I'd lost touch with and I didn't think he was gonna get back to me.

他说他有个沙发，其实有个整个房间可以让我睡，让我去住他的客房，这样我就能留在丹佛了。

And he said he had a a couch, he had a a whole room I could sleep in and to come stay at his guest room and that allowed me to like stay in Denver.

然后我们就住在一起了，然后……

And then, like, we stayed together and...

这引发了一连串的事情，到现在差不多二十年了。

And then it it created a whole series of events over the past almost twenty years now.

但那一刻真的很特别，我能感觉到我在用自己的行动努力做某件事，但我的行动却被外部环境或命运挡住了，那些是我控制不了的，反而在把我往另一个方向推。

But it was this really notable moment where I could notice that I was trying through my own actions to do something, but my actions were being blocked by an external set of circumstances or fate that was outside of my control that was instead trying to nudge me back in a in a different direction.

我记得特别清楚，因为你给我发了短信。

I remember that so vividly because you texted me.

我记得你好像真的去了邮局三次，想寄那些书。

I think you did try to go three times to the post office and send them.

然后你说，Leisa，有点不对劲。

And you were like, Leisa, something weird is happening.

书就是寄不出去。

The books won't go.

就是不行……

They just won't...

我想寄，但它们就是寄不出去。

I'm trying to send them and they will not go.

就好像，别……

Like, don't...

不知道为什么，我就是做不到。

For some reason, I'm not being able to do this.

感觉好像我不该寄似的。

It's like I'm not supposed to or something.

我觉得这很重要，因为这完全是另一类事情。

And I think that's important because it's a whole...

这是我有时会注意的另一类事情，就像关于你命运该往哪走的预兆，或者宇宙作为一个有感知的东西，有时会指引你朝某个方向去。

It's a other class of things I try to pay attention to sometimes which are like omens about what your fate is supposed to be or what direction the universe more broadly as some kind of like sentient thing is sometimes directing you towards.

有时候它就像是在告诉你……

And sometimes it's like telling...

它要么是在轻轻推你一下。

It's either nudging.

有时候它像是在用力推你。

Sometimes it's like pushing you.

就像，有时候你会遇到一个巨大的推动力，因为另一种情况是，有时候你会遇到一个不可逆转的，甚至是负面的事件，它会改变你的人生，为你关上某些门，但是……

Like, sometimes you get a huge push because that's the other set of circumstances is sometimes you'll have an irrevocable, sometimes negative event that will change your life and it will close certain doors for you, but...

这在当时可能非常艰难。

Which can be very hard in that time.

但从长远来看，你会意识到它为你打开了其他的门，或者把你推向了原本不会走的方向，对吧。

But then in the long span of time, you'll realize that it it opened like other doors for you or pushed you in a direction you wouldn't have gone otherwise, like Mhmm.

你知道，比如你亲近的人去世了之类的。

You know, the death of somebody close to you or something like that.

但我尽量留意这些事情，因为我觉得有时候它们能给你一些线索……

But I try to pay attention to those things because I think sometimes it can clue you into...

而且因为当下可能会让人很沮丧，你可能会生气，抱怨这种事情发生。

And also because it can be frustrating in the moment and you can get upset and lament that that's happening sometimes.

比如说，在那次经历中，我三次把书拖到那里去寄，结果都被退回来，这本来是一件很让人抓狂的事。

If, for example, in that instance, I had those three times where I lugged all these books down there to send them and was being sent back, it was like a very frustrating thing that I could have like freaked out about.

但相反，我开始想，为什么会这样，这又在把我推向哪里？

But instead, I started thinking like, why is this happening and what is this pushing me towards?

然后没过多久，路就变得清晰了。

And then the path became clear, like, not long after that.

我有很多这样的时刻。

I've had a number of moments like that.

我是说，甚至……

I mean, even...

我是说，甚至之前发生的一切，包括我搬回丹佛，以及我遇见你，都是因为我失去了姐姐，如果不是这样，我当时绝不会搬回丹佛。

I mean, even what led up to that was me moving back to Denver in the first place how I met you because I lost my sister, and I never would have moved back to Denver at that time if I didn't.

然后我遇见了你，这又牵扯到另一件事，就是我的次级推运。

And then I ended up meeting you, and then that ties in a whole other thing, which is like my secondary progressions.

我的金星和木星落在相邻的两个星座，比如金星在射手座早期或中期，木星在摩羯座早期，这是出生星盘上的位置。

I have my Venus and Jupiter in two adjacent signs like Venus is in early Sagittarius or mid Sagittarius and Jupiter is in early Capricorn Natally.

在我的本命盘里。

In my natal chart.

所以它们之间大概相差二三十度。

So they're almost like, what, 20, 30 degrees away.

它们几乎相隔一个完整的星座。

They're almost a full sign away.

但那时候，大概在2007年和2008年，金星通过次限推进与木星相遇并合相。

But then at that time in like 2007 and 2008, like Venus by secondary progression met up with Jupiter and conjoined it at that time.

这种情况在我一生中只会发生一次。

And that'll only happen like once in my life.

而它恰好发生在我们在一起的那个时候。

And it just happened to to happen at that time when we got together.

然后在那次次限合相时，你成了我一生的挚爱，这真的非常令人震撼。

And then you became like the love of my life at that secondary progressed conjunction, and that was just incredibly striking.

然后……

And then...

所以这引出了好几个别的话题，但其中一点就是，有时候确实有技巧能看出那些一生只有一次的事情什么时候会发生。

So that brings up, like, several other things, but also one of the other things is just sometimes there's techniques showing you when those one time events will happen.

所以……

So that...

这里面内容挺多的。

There's a lot there.

确实。

Definitely.

然后……

And so...

这就是一个例子，说明命运可能是好的，而且有些事情从出生那一刻起就已经注定了。

And that's an example of, like, you know, fate potentially being good and also things that are mapped out from the time of birth.

你知道的。

You know.

像那种特定的重合，通过次级推进的行星重合，一生只会发生一次，而且你刚出生后就能准确说出它会在你生命中的什么时候发生。

Like that particular coinciding, planetary coinciding by secondary progression is only going to happen once and you can say exactly when it's going to happen in your life right after you're born.

因为那只是在次级推进中，就像那个金星和木星的合相，发生在二十...

Because it's just in secondary progressions, was like what the the Venus Jupiter conjunction that happened 20...

那时候多大来着？

When how old was it?

我们见面的时候大概二十二...

When we met like 22...

二十三。

23.

二十三。

23.

我出生后二十三天，天空中出现了一次金星和木星的合相。

Twenty three days after I was born, there was a Venus Jupiter conjunction in the sky.

那应该是在一九八四年十一月底左右，因为我是一号出生的。

So that was in what, like late November of nineteen eighty four since I was born on November 1.

然后那个我在23岁时经历的金星木星合相，其实是在预示我23岁时经历的这个。

And then that Venus Jupiter conjunction that I experienced when I was only 23 old, like, was itself foreshadowing this one I experienced when I was 23.

所以就是这样。

So there's that.

我当时也在研...

I was also stud...

那时候，我正开始一个从爱神章节开始的二十年黄道释放，这应该是我人际关系方面最积极的时期。

Starting, like, a twenty year zodiacal releasing from Eros chapter at that point, which is supposed to be the most positive period for me for relationships.

瓦伦斯提到过这一点，他说有很多不同的时间技法，但它们就像不同的路径，有时会通向同一个地方。

And that's something that Valens mentions as he mentions there's like many different timing techniques, but that it's like they're all different paths sometimes to getting to the same place.

所以，技法之间不一定互相排斥，但有时它们会...

So that, techniques are not always necessarily mutually exclusive, but sometimes they'll...

它们会...

They will...

你会有多个技法同时指向同一个方向，告诉你那个时刻有重要的事情发生。对。

You'll have multiple techniques that will line up that that are pointing you and telling you something important is happening at that moment Mhmm.

不管是好是坏。

For better or worse.

当多种技巧在一个人星盘中汇聚时，一些最重要的事件就会发生。

And those are when some of the most important events happen when you have a confluence of, like, multiple techniques lining up in a person's chart.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

我想回到你之前说的关于书没出版的事，以及当时的沮丧，但也许它在引导你走向另一个方向，与其只沉浸在沮丧中，不如关注那个方向。

And I want to go back to something that you were saying about about the books not going and about, you know, the frustration in the moment, but maybe it's nudging you in a different direction and, like, paying attention to that instead of only dwelling in the frustration.

我认为这也是一个重要方面，无论命运只是被理解为消极还是积极，就像无限自由意志的概念是，我们作为个体自己知道生活中究竟应该发生什么才是最好的，而且我们做的每个决定都应该得到实现。

I think that's an important facet as well of, you know, whether fate is, you know, only conceptualized as, you know, negative versus positive is, like, the idea of, you know, sort of endless free will is that we we ourselves know as as individuals what exactly should happen in our life for the best, you know, and, like, every decision that we make that we should definitely get that fulfilled.

这有点像你举的那个例子，是的，确实会有做决定的时刻，你以为你知道自己试图用自由意志来做什么。

And that's kind of an example, you know, the one that you gave about, like, you know, yes, there, you know, there can be moments of decision making, and you think that you know what you're trying to use your free will for.

而你……

And you...

你认为对你来说最好的事情。

What you think would be best for you to happen.

但也许你其实并不了解全貌。

But maybe you don't actually know the full picture.

你知道，你不可能全知全能，看不到整个世界的全貌，也看不到自己未来的各种可能性，更不知道哪条路对你更好或更糟。

You know, you don't have an omniscient view of the entire world of the, you know, of your own future, of your own different future potential paths, and what would be better or worse for you.

你只是在那一刻知道自己想要什么而已。

You know, you just know what you think that you want in that moment.

有时候你以为自己想要的，并不是你如果能从全局视角看到全貌时会想要的；有时候你当下想要的，并不是对你最好的，也不是能带你走向你该去的地方的那条路。

And sometimes what you think you want isn't what either you would want if you could see the the full picture from a bird's eye view or sometimes what you think you want in the moment isn't the thing that's best for you, or it's not the thing that leads you to where you're supposed to be at some point.

没错。

Exactly.

所以我觉得这真的是一个很好的例子，来说明自由意志并不总是好的——它暗示我们在任何时刻都知道什么对自己最好，但实际上我们看不了那么远，看不到整个宇宙和未来。

So I think that's a really great example of that kind of thing of how, you know, just to complicate the idea of, you know, free will only being good, you know, it implies that we we always know at any given moment what is best for us, in fact, with our limited capability of seeing the entire universe and the future.

其实，这里有个更大的问题。

I mean, there is a broader issue.

关于命运，有件事就是……

There is a thing where with fate...

我不知道。

I don't know.

不过，生活中确实有些事情是我们注定会失败的，或者有些我们想要的东西，这辈子就是得不到，不管是因为我们无法控制的环境，还是因为我们自己能够控制的因素。

There can be things in our life though where we're destined to fail at something or something that we do want we just don't get to achieve in this life for whatever reason, for circumstances that might be outside of our control or even ones that are inside of our control.

这确实是个很难处理的事情。

And that is something that's tricky to deal with.

而这在占星术中成了一个核心问题，关于占星术的目的是什么。比如，在古代占星术中，不同的占星家对命运有不同的哲学观点和处理方式，有的认为行星是征兆，有的认为它们是原因，诸如此类。

And that's something that becomes a central issue in terms of astrology and what its purpose is is, for example, in ancient astrology, the different astrologers all had different philosophical viewpoints and approaches to fate and whether the planets act as signs or causes and different things like that.

但他们似乎都普遍认同一个核心前提，那就是占星术的目的是了解未来，这样你就能知道自己的命运是什么，会发生什么事，从而提前做好准备，接受你必须接受的生活现实，这样当事情真正发生时，你就不会措手不及。

But they all did seem to generally agree on this one central premise, is that the purpose of astrology was to learn the future so that you could learn what your fate was and what would happen to you so that you could prepare yourself ahead of time to accept what you have to accept about your life so that you're not thrown off terribly when the events actually occur.

瓦伦斯提到过这一点，弗米库斯也提到过。

And that's something that Valens mentions, that Firmicus mentions.

甚至托勒密，虽然他不完全是斯多葛派或决定论者，也提到这是占星术的目的之一。

Even Ptolemy who's not fully Stoic or deterministic mentions that as like part of the purpose of astrology.

这是一个非常斯多葛式的观念，因为在斯多葛哲学中，理想的斯多葛智者是这样的，他们想要顺应自然而生活。

And it's a very Stoic notion because in Stoicism, the ideal Stoic sage was so, they wanted to live in accordance with nature.

而且他们认为，自然其实就是与命运、与神或神圣计划和谐共存的另一种说法，因为他们把宇宙本身看作一个有生命、神圣、有感知的实体，所以神、命运、自然这些东西都是交织在一起、合而为一的。

And nature, they thought was another, like, a synonym for living in in accordance with fate and also with god or with a divine plan because they saw the cosmos itself as a living, divine, sentient entity so that god and fate and nature and all of those things were intertwined in one and the same.

所以，他们对理想化斯多葛派智者的最高理想是，智者会以同等的价值接受生活中的所有事件，因为那是他们命运的一部分，而如果一个人无法接受自己无法控制的事情，想要别的或者不接受，有时只会导致内心的痛苦和折磨。

So their highest ideal for the idealized Stoic sage is that the Stoic sage would accept all events in their life with having the same value because it was part of their fate and destiny and that to want something else or to not accept that could sometimes just lead to internal heartache and pain if one is unable to accept the things that are outside of their control.

所以，关于如何用占星术及其预测能力来处理这个问题，我思考了很多，也在不同时期挣扎过，因为我确实认为那很有价值，尤其是在有些时候，有些事情超出了你的控制，你不高兴或者不希望它发生，但无论如何，你注定要在那个时候经历它，我们每个人在人生的不同阶段都会遇到这种情况。对。

So that's something I've thought about a lot and struggled with at different points about how to deal with that in terms of astrology and its predictive capabilities because I do think there's a lot of value to that, especially in the times when there is something that happens that's outside of your control that you're not happy about or that you don't want to happen, but nonetheless that you are fated to experience at that time, which we all have universally at different points in our life Mhmm.

在我们人生的某个时刻，我们该如何应对呢？

At some point in our life, and how do we deal with that?

比如，我们是不是……

Like, do we...

我们该如何优雅地接受那些必须接受的事情，带着内心的勇气、坚韧和力量，用斯多葛派的话说，就是宁静。

And how how gracefully do we accept the things that we have to accept in our life with internal courage and fortitude and strength and like the Stoic word is tranquility.

但是，对。

But Mhmm.

我不知道是不是有更好的……

I don't know if there's like a better

就像那种平静的心态？

Like equanimity?

对，就像那种平静的心态。

Like equanimity.

可能还有更好的词来形容，但我不太清楚是什么。

There's some other better term for that, but I don't I don't know what it is.

我的意思是，这……

I mean, it's it's...

在斯多葛学派看来，这就像是达到一种开悟的圣人境界，他们非常渴望生活，能够接受发生的一切，无论好坏，他们把一切都视为本质上具有相同的价值，即使主观上他们有自己的偏好。

In the Stoics, it was like reaching this, like, enlightened statehood of a sage who's so wanting to live, able to accept the things that happen to them both good and bad that they treat everything as having essentially the same value even if subjectively they have preferences one way or another.

但似乎占星家们意识到，普通人不可能立刻成为能接受一切的圣人，相反，占星术的目的是给你一个提醒，让你开始慢慢适应和理解那些你可能不得不接受或可能不会接受的事情。

But that it seemed like for the astrologers, they realized that everyday people aren't just immediately like these enlightened sages that can accept anything, but instead the purpose of astrology was to give you a heads up so that you might start to like warm yourself up to understanding the things that you might have to accept or you might might not.

我觉得很多类似的事情也是这样，我……

And I think similar to a lot of things like that, I...

当我第一次听到这个的时候，我想，我也不太确定。

When I first heard that, I was like, I don't know.

但是，你知道，我在占星术里待得越久，就越觉得这其实是一个非常实用的用途。

But, you know, the longer I've been in astrology, I do think that's actually an incredibly helpful use of it.

我觉得人们还是很容易纠结，到底什么是在自己掌控范围内的，什么不是。

I think one still easily struggles with, like, well, what exactly is or is not in your own sphere of control.

你懂吗？

You know?

我觉得这就是作为人的本质。

And I think that's just the nature of, like, being a human being.

我觉得这个问题永远不会消失，因为你不可能完全看清所有细节，哪些在你掌控之中，哪些不在，所以你只能尽力去处理那些你觉得能掌控的事情。

I don't think that's ever gonna go away, because you can't exactly see all of the specifics of, like, what is or isn't in your control, and so you just have to work the best with, like, what feels like it is.

你懂吗？

You know?

然后，反过来，你也要尽力去接受那些你觉得无法改变的事情。

And then, you know, work as best you can conversely with, like, accepting the things that feel like you can't make them different.

但是，是的，我觉得这非常有用。

But, yeah, I think it's incredibly useful.

你知道，有点好笑的是……

You know, there's there's sort of more humorously...

几年前推特上有个标签叫astrologergood，意思大概是，如果你遇到一件你完全不想发生的事，但作为占星师，你被符号的完美对应震撼到，以至于你只能微笑。

There was a hashtag developed some years back on Twitter called astrologergood, and, you know, it was about basically the idea that if you, you know, something happens that you don't want to happen at all, but as an astrologer, you're so struck by the symbolism matching up so well and so perfectly that you just have to, like, smile.

我觉得我大概就是这么理解的。

And I I think that's paraphrasing it more or less correctly.

它就是在说那个意思。

And and it's getting at that idea.

就是说，看到这种对应关系，不管是当下还是提前很久，如果你有占星思维，你会觉得，好吧，这件事就该以这种方式在此时发生。

It's like, you know, there's something about seeing the correlation whether in the moment or whether, you know, earlier in advance that kinda makes you, if you have an astrological orientation, go, okay, there's something about this that was supposed to happen in this way at this time.

所以，即使你个人不希望它发生，这件事也有某种额外的意义维度。

And therefore, there's some additional meaningful dimension to that happening even if you individually would not like it to have happened.

我的意思是，astrologergood这个标签就是说，作为占星师，我们至少会抽象地被占星对应得有多好所打动，即使有时候它对应的是我们生活中不好的或不想发生的事，但我们内心有个客观的部分，会对占星对应得好感到佩服。

I mean, the astrologer good hashtag was about that there's just something as astrologers that we become abstractly at least impressed by how well the astrology will line up even if in some instances it's coinciding with something that's bad or that we don't want to be happening in our lives, but that there's a objective part of us that's kind of impressed when the astrology lines up well.

就像佩服，甚至觉得好笑，比如，哇，这个象征意义真棒。

Like impressed or like even amused by like, oh, that's really great symbolism

对。

there.

因为从根本上说，所有占星师都会对占星术的运作程度、运作得有多好，以及它在多少个层面上展开感到着迷……

Because fundamentally all astrologers become just fascinated by the extent to which astrology works and how well it works and how many different levels it lay...

它和事情对得上。

It lines up with things.

而且……

And...

我……

I...

所以……

So...

对我来说，这就是为什么我拥抱并投入了这么多播客内容去探索和看看你能在开发占星术的技术工具方面走多远，把它在预测能力上推到极致，并尽可能发展这些能力，以充分利用它。

And for me, that's why I embrace and have focused so much of the podcast on exploring and seeing how far you can go in developing the technical apparatus of astrology to take it as far as possible in terms of its predictive capabilities and to develop those as far as possible to use it to its fullest extent.

但就……而言，

But in terms of the...

不只是占星的目的，还有你刚才提到的局限性。我觉得即使一切都是注定的，占星也总是完美地与之吻合，我们作为占星师还是有局限的，因为我们面对的是一个从根本上通过象征和预兆来运作和表达的系统。对。

Not just the purpose of astrology, but something you were just talking about in terms of the limitations, I think even if everything's predetermined and the astrology always perfectly coincides with that, we have limitations as astrologers because we're dealing with a a system that fundamentally works and speaks through symbolism and through omens Mhmm.

而且其中还有解读的成分。

And that there's an element of interpretation.

另外，我们作为人类的视角是有限的，因为能获取的数据有限，能应用和考虑的技巧也有限，能看到的星盘也有限。

And also that our vantage point is limited as humans because there's only so much data and there's only so many techniques that we can apply and take into account as well as so many charts that we can even see.

就像即使我们能看我的星盘、你的星盘，或者我们今天的行运，还有其他星盘在起作用。对。

Like even if we could see my chart or your chart or our transits on this day, there's like other charts that are operating Mhmm.

比如我们所在建筑的星盘。对。

For so many other things of like the chart for the building that we're in Mhmm.

或者我们所在国家、城市的星盘，或者择时盘、事件盘，这些不同事物之间的起始盘。

Or the country that we're living in or the city or the electional chart, the inceptional chart for different things between us.

或者我们生活中的人，以及我们在那些星盘中的表现和时机。

Or the people in our lives and how we show up in those charts and timing.

所以回到重点，因为这最终是我对命运和自由意志的看法——我确实认为大多数……

So back to the point, like, because this is where I ultimately come to about fate and free will ultimately is I do think most...

我觉得，基本上所有事情，说实话，最终都是注定的。

I mean, I I think virtually everything ultimately, I honestly is predetermined in our lives.

我个人是倾向于相信这个说法的，甚至可以说几乎完全相信，虽然我也知道这不一定适合所有人，很多人可能不同意，或者有别的看法。

I go to the full extent or almost fullest extent in thinking that ultimately myself personally, even if I understand that's not, you know, appropriate for everybody or a lot of people might not agree with that or what have you.

我之所以这么相信，很大程度上是因为看到占星术确实很准，而且准得让人惊讶。

I go to that fullest extent for the most part in just seeing how astrology works out and how well it works out.

但问题在于，我觉得所谓的“半自由意志”就体现在这里：占星师在提前准确解读星象方面，能力是有限的。

But the problem and where I think element of what you might classify as a sort of quasi free will comes in is that astrologers are limited in our ability to correctly interpret the astrology ahead of time.

而且，不管你有多厉害，不管你觉得通过占星已经看透了未来会发生什么，也不管你觉得有多少种技巧都指向同一个结果，或者你觉得自己理解了星象想传达的象征意义，但只有等到事情真正发生的那一刻，你才能确定自己是对的，还是部分错了，或者完全错了。

And that ultimately, no matter how good you are or how much you think you've figured out what's gonna happen in the future through astrology and how much you think you've seen multiple techniques indicating the same thing and think you understand the symbolism of what it's trying to say to you, that it's not until the event actually occurs that you know in that moment for certain whether you were right or whether you were partially or fully wrong about what you thought the astrology indicates.

正因为作为人类和解读者的这种局限，作为占星师，你总是要尽力去争取最好的结果，不管是对自己还是对你帮助的人。

And as a result of that limitation as humans and as interpreters, as astrologers, you always have to strive to do your best to try to aim for the most optimal outcome for you or whoever you're working with to help.

你总是要努力去争取最好的结果，哪怕情况看起来不太乐观，因为你可能判断错了，或者漏掉了什么，或者作为占星师，你的解读可能有误。

You always have to strive to work for the most optimal outcome even if it doesn't look good because you could be wrong or there's could be something you're missing or you could be mistaken in your interpretation as an astrologer.

而在这个过程中，就有一种自由意志的存在，因为存在不确定性，因为你没有全知的能力，不能像上帝一样俯瞰全局，知道一切会如何发展，相反，你只能通过符号和征兆来工作。

And in that, there's a sort of free will because there's this indeterminacy in terms of not having omniscience, like not knowing everything in having like a complete bird's eye or god's view of of exactly how things gonna play out, but instead because you're working through symbols and and omens.

有道理。

That makes sense.

它不是……

It's not a...

占星术不是水晶球，不会像放电影一样，把未来会发生什么一五一十地展示给你。

Astrology is not a crystal ball that shows you a video, like a movie of exactly what's gonna happen in the future.

它是一套符号和征兆，你得靠自己的能力去阅读、解读、努力破解。但我们的解读能力是有限的，因为这套系统实在太庞大了，人类一辈子也不可能完全掌握和理解。

It's a set of symbols and omens that you have to read and interpret and try to decipher to the best of your abilities, but our abilities to decipher that system because the system ultimately is so massive that it's truly outside of our ability as humans to fully master and understand completely in one lifetime.

我们只能尽量做到最好，

But we just try to get as good as it...

尽可能做到最好。

As we possibly can.

但我们终究不是全知全能的神，这种局限是我们必须时刻牢记的。

But our lack of ultimately, like, godlike omniscience does give a a limitation that you always have to take into account.

而这一点，我觉得恰恰打破了那种彻底的宿命论。因为在事情真正发生之前，你永远无法百分百确定，只有到了那个时间点，亲眼看到事情如何发展，你才能知道结果。

And that ultimately, I think negates any sort of full fatalism that one should ever have about things because you never know for certain until you get to that point in time and and see exactly how things manifest.

这很有道理。

That makes a lot of sense.

我觉得……

I think...

所以呢……

So I...

就我目前的看法而言，我已经能接受很多事情并非完全由命运注定这一事实了。

As far as my current take on these things, I have become fine with not knowing the extent to which things are predetermined.

我觉得事情比我以前想的更有定数。

I think things are more predetermined than I used to think.

我认为在每一段人生里，肯定有很多事是注定好的。

And I think that certain things are very probably predetermined in any given life.

你至少会有一些，甚至可能有很多事情是命中注定的。

You probably have at least some things, even maybe many things that are predetermined.

不过我觉得还是有变数的，只是不能百分之百确定。路上可能会有几个关键的选择点，就像那种互动小说一样，在你做出某个决定后，事情的发展可能会有几种不同的走向。

I think there's still possibility, but not certainty, that there could be choice points along the way, kind of like a choose your own adventure, you know, book, where there could be a few different, or maybe more than a few different ways in which things could proceed after a certain decision you make.

而且，你知道，也许有些事情是注定的，比如你在人生的某个时刻必须做出某个决定。

And, you know, maybe there is predetermination with regard to you need to make a decision about that thing at that time in your life.

但也许在做出那个决定之后，事情可能会沿着这条线发展，但仍然符合你所有注定的时间安排，或者沿着这条线发展，具体细节略有不同，但仍然符合你注定的时间安排。

But then maybe upon that decision, you know, things might then play out along this line, but still in accordance with all of your predetermined timing, or along this line where the specifics are a little different, but it still matches your predetermined timing.

所以我觉得这仍然是有可能的。

So I think that there's still a possibility for that.

我不确定。

I don't know for sure.

也有可能一切都是完全注定的，但是，是的，我觉得这两种可能性对我来说都存在，而且我也接受在我活着的时候不知道具体细节，因为，是的，我们不是全知全能的。

It's also possible things are completely predetermined, but, yeah, I think both of those are possibilities for me, and I'm also fine with not knowing the specifics during my worldly lifetime because, yeah, we don't have omniscience.

所以作为有限的个体人类，我们真的无法看到所有事情的全貌，也无法确定。

And so we can't really see everything in its full scope and know for sure as limited individual human beings.

所以我确实认为，你一生中必须匹配的时间安排非常引人注目，这表明很多事情都是注定的。

So I do think, you know, the timing that has to match up throughout your entire life is very striking in terms of a lot being predetermined.

但至于那些内容具体是什么，可能还有一些回旋的余地。

But in terms of what fills in all of that content, there could be some room to wiggle.

我的意思是，我会说……

And I mean, will say...

我有点摇摆不定，因为你知道，确实有择时占星术。

And I waver a little bit because, you know, you do have electional astrology.

虽然我说过，它教你的其中一件事就是，在时间和行星位置方面，有多少是你无法控制的，你无法控制所有行星的位置，但你可以……

And while I said that, you know, one of the things that teaches you is how much is outside of your control in terms of time and where the planets will be and not being able to control all of the positions of the planets, you can...

如果你每天都用择时占星术，你确实会看到有些时间段可能带来更有利的结果，而其他时间段可能带来更不利的结果。

If you use electional astrology on a daily basis, like you do see like the window of times when there's a potential for a more favorable outcome than other windows where there's a potential for a more negative outcome.

当你经常这样做的时候，你确实会看到做出选择的可能性。

And when you do that regularly enough, you do see the potential to make a choice.

在中期柏拉图主义中，他们有这种条件命运的概念，即选择由你来做，关于某件事做出选择。

And in in Middle Platonism, they had this idea of a conditional fate that that the choice is up to you to to make a choice about something.

但一旦你做出选择，结果就是注定的。

But once you make a choice, the outcome is fated to occur.

这听起来很像择时占星术，你有选择何时行动的余地，至少是尽你所能。

And that and that sounds a lot like electional astrology to me where you have the choice to choose like when to act at least to the best of your abilities.

但一旦你做了那个选择，结果就会设定一个轨迹或弧线，至少在某些你会经历的事情上，会有一个可能的结果。

But then once you make that choice, there is something about the outcome that sets at least a trajectory or like an arc that does have a likely outcome in terms of certain things you're gonna experience

所以，在合理范围内，尽量选择最佳时机行动，这对你要达成的事情更有利，尤其是当你把它和我之前提到的不确定性因素结合起来时，那就是你……

So that it does make sense to try your best to, within reason to, choose the best times to act that are gonna be the more optimal for what you're trying to accomplish, especially then when you tie that in with that indeterminacy factor that I mentioned before, which is that you...

即使是最好的占星家，也不可能百分之百准确地知道未来一切会如何发展。

Even the best astrologer in the world is not so good that they know 100 exactly how everything's gonna turn out in the future.

他们只能达到一定的百分比，这个百分比总是低于百分之百，无法确切知道事情会如何显现。

They just have a certain level of percentage that they can get to that's somewhere less than a 100% at all times in terms of knowing exactly how things are gonna manifest.

如果这是真的，那么你就必须努力尽可能优化一切，以带来积极的结果。

And if that's true, then you have to strive to optimize things as best as you can to bring about positive outcomes.

是的，这就是不仅择时占星术派上用场的地方，还有关注你的行运、关注其他时间技巧，并尽力按照这些去做。

And, yeah, that's where not just electional astrology comes in, but also paying attention to your transits, paying attention to other timing techniques, and trying to do things in accordance with, doing your best.

但这实际上让我们回到了你在这段讨论开始时提到的那些事情之一，也就是我早期告诉你的，我注意到当我去参加会议时，许多年长的占星家不像我那样关注他们的出生星盘和行运。

But that actually circles us back around to one of those things you were talking about at the beginning of this discussion, is something I told you early on, which is I noticed that I had this observation early on when I would go to conferences that a number of the older astrologers like didn't pay attention to their birth charts and their transits as much as I did.

后来，随着我经验增多，我最终明白了为什么会这样。

And then I later as I got more experience eventually like learned why that was and stuff.

后来我意识到，占星师们会经历不同的阶段，有时更关注自己的命盘，试图掌控局面或影响结果，有时则专注于研究各种关联。

And what I came to realize is just that astrologers go through different like waves of being more or less focused on their own chart and trying to control things or to manipulate outcomes or studying the correlations.

每个占星师都会经历这种关注程度起伏的阶段。

And each astrologer goes through like waves of being more or less doing that.

特别是在学习初期，大家往往会花很多精力在这方面，甚至有点痴迷于追踪自己的行运和其他事项，把这作为学习占星的一部分。

But especially early in your studies, there's a tendency to focus on it a lot and to sort of obsess about tracking your transits and other things as part of the process of learning astrology.

但你并不会在整个……过程中一直保持着这种高度专注的状态。

But you don't always stay at that like heightened state of focus for the entirety of your...

如果你最终从事占星师这一行，干上很长一段时间，有时候你也会有一阵子一阵子地不那么严格地去遵循这些规则。

If you end up having a long career as an astrologer, but sometimes you go in and out of not following things as closely.

对。

Definitely.

我觉得这种忽紧忽松的状态是很正常的。

I think the in and out is correct.

因为有时候某些特定的情况会介入进来……

Because sometimes then specific things can come in...

你知道，生活中可能会发生一些事情，让你突然想更仔细地看看自己当下的星象和星盘。

You know, can happen in your life that make you want to suddenly look again more closely at what's happening astrologically in your own timing and chart.

但是，是的，我觉得总的来说，我已经看过……

But but, yeah, I think overall, I've I've looked...

我是说，你刚好在择时占星之后提到这个，挺有意思的。因为对我来说，现在更关注的是每天简单看一眼当下的星盘，然后想，哦，这就是我做……的时候。

I mean, it's funny that you bring that up right after electional astrology, because I think for me, actually, what I pay attention to more now is just on a daily basis, very briefly glancing at the chart of the moment and going, oh, this is when I do...

今天应该做重要的事情。

Should do important things today.

这比看自己的本命盘更让我关注，考虑到我们强调宿命论，这其实挺讽刺的。

Like, more so than, like, looking at my own natal chart, which is actually kind of funny given the focus on predetermination.

但我其实觉得，也许你注定要学习和使用择时占星。

But I I actually kinda think, like, that, you know, maybe you're also fated to learn and use electional astrology.

你知道吗？

You know?

而且你……

And you...

所以不管怎样，其实都没什么区别。

And so either way, it doesn't really matter.

你还是在用它。

You're still using it.

你懂吧？

You know?

因为说到底，体验本身还是很重要的。

Because, again, the experience is still important.

而且去实践……

And the enact...

去实践这件事，以及把它推动起来，这些都很重要。

The enacting of that is still important and setting into motion is still important.

所以，是的，我其实每天都会更关注当下的星象图，而不是我自己的本命盘那些。

So, yeah, I actually pay a lot more attention to the the chart of the moment on a more or less daily basis than I do, like, my own natal stuff.

然后我会在遇到事情的时候，时不时地去看一看。

And then I'll sort of dip in and out of like looking at that as things arise.

好的。

Okay.

我是说，我每天都会关注择时和上升星座。

I mean, I pay attention to the electional and the rising signs each day each day.

因为这会设定一些窗口期，在这些时候，你的行动结果会更积极或更成功，而其他时候，你去做某件事，即使没有实际理由认为会出问题，你开始行动后，就会遇到麻烦。

Because it sets up windows where you know the outcome of your actions are gonna be more positive or successful, whereas other times when you'll do something and even though you have no practical reason to think that there would be any problems with it, You'll initiate an action and then there'll be like a problem with it.

就像你和我经常开玩笑说的，比如我点餐的时候，火星在上升点，或者土星在上升点，而且是夜盘。

Like you and I sometimes commonly laugh about like I'll like order food and like Mars is on the Ascendant or like Saturn's on the Ascendant and it's a night chart.

我还是会点，因为我饿了，就想叫个外卖什么的。

And I'll just, like, do it because it's, like, I'm hungry, and I just wanna get something delivered or something like that.

我不想等。

I don't wanna wait.

但然后订单就出问题了，他们忘了一半的东西。

But then, there's, like, a problem with the order, and they, like, forget half of the order.

然后你还得跑下去处理。

And then you have to, like, go down there or something to deal with it.

所以这就变成了完全不在你控制范围内的事情。

And so it becomes something that's completely outside of your control.

而有时候，如果你早一点做，或者晚一点做，背后的条件就会更有利于你想要的结果。

Whereas sometimes if you just, like, had done it a little sooner, if you'd done it a little later, the circumstances behind that would have been more conducive for what you wanted.

对。

And Mhmm.

这不仅仅是经历过几次，而是当你开始有这种经历……

It's like not just having that experience a few times, but it's like once you start having that ex...

当你经历过一百次或者几百次之后，对。

Once you've had that experience a 100 times or hundreds of times Mhmm.

这确实会开始推动你，让你或多或少地去关注那个，对。

It does start pushing you in the direction of like paying more or less attention to that Mhmm.

在平时，经常性地。

On a on a regular basis.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

这就是最无奈的地方，一旦你了解了占星术，你就没法选择不去知道它。

And that that's the unfortunate point where you can't like opt out of knowing the astrology once you know it.

我是说，你当然可以选择不去看，我想。

I mean, you could choose not to look, I guess.

但问题是，你知道了之后，就会知道有些时间段处理事情会麻烦一些，如果是一些小事，你就会想，那就挑个不那么麻烦的时候做吧。

But it's like, you know that, and when you know there's like different windows that'll be more or less annoying to deal with, if it's like minor stuff, you're just like, well, let's just do that at the less annoying times.

结果也会没那么烦人。

We have less annoying results.

你懂吧？

You know?

而且显然，这也适用于更重要的事情。

And obviously, that extends to, like, much more important things.

但是……

But...

我最近确实最关注这个。

I definitely pay the most attention to that these days.

所以择时占星……

So electional...

我的意思是，我了解自己的行运，而且我仍然密切关注行运，偶尔也会查看黄道释放，但我不像以前那样密切关注黄道释放了。

I mean, I know my transits, and I still pay close attention to transits and occasionally check-in with the zodiacal releasing, but I don't follow the zodiacal releasing as closely as I used to.

你仍然比我更密切关注它，我

You follow it still much more closely, I

觉得。

feel like.

我……

I've...

我目前比你更密切关注它，虽然我……

I follow it more closely than you do currently, although I've...

实际上，我比以前关注得少了。

I follow it actually less closely than I used to.

就在我设置……

Just as I was setting...

之前也说过，就是感觉我可以稍微放松一点了。

Saying earlier, just kinda like, I feel like I can relax a little bit more about...

你不必总是因为随时能查到这些细节就非得去查。

You don't always just because you can know all of these details at any given time doesn't mean you always need to.

你懂吧？

You know?

尤其是如果你觉得没必要管得那么细，或者那样不会……

Especially if you don't think you need to micromanage it or that's not going to be...

那样行不通。

That's not gonna work.

就像……

Like...

所以现在对我来说，它更像是一个有趣的视角，而不是需要时刻盯着的东西。

And so it's more about, like, interesting perspective to me at this time rather than something I feel like I need to be on top of all of the time.

它能给你提供额外的见解或视角，让你了解现在生活中发生的事情，这确实有用，但至少过一段时间后，它不需要成为你一直关注的东西。

It can give you additional insights or perspective on, like, what's happening in your life right now, and that's that's useful, but it doesn't need to be something you're, like, constantly paying attention to, at least, you know, after a while.

你知道吗？

You know?

当然，那更像是学习的一个早期阶段。

Certainly, that's, like, an earlier phase of, like, learning.

但是，是的，我看……

But, yeah, I look at...

我不知道。

I don't know.

我会偶尔看看……

I dip in and out of...

我……我……

I I...

就像我说的，我更多是每天看择时占星，有时候也会看看行运。

Like I said, I look at the electional astrology on more of a daily basis, and I look at my transit sometimes.

我会看看我的太阳回归推运。

I look at my z r progressions.

推运变化不频繁，所以我只是偶尔看看。

Progressions don't move very often, so I only look at that once in a while.

但是……

But...

或者说是完美推运。

Or perfections, I would say.

有时候我会更经常地思考我的完美推运。

Sometimes I think about my perfections more regularly.

我的意思是，这也引出了一个相关话题，那就是占星术并不总是天生就有帮助的。

I mean, well, it also brings up a side topic which is like astrology isn't always inherently helpful.

知道这些并不总是天生就有帮助，因为从实际角度来看，有时候你已经知道发生了什么，而占星术只是告诉你你生活中已经知道的事情。

It's not always inherently helpful to know because from a practical standpoint, sometimes you already know what's happening and sometimes the astrology just tells you what you already know is happening in your life.

而且有时候这很有用，能让你从不同的外部视角看问题，给你提供一些观点，而且看到占星术与你的生活如此吻合，在智力上也很有趣。

And like that's useful sometimes to get a different outside perspective and it gives you perspectives on things and it is like intellectually entertaining to see how well the astrology is coinciding with your life.

但是有一些……

But there are...

这也是我年轻时和那些老占星师接触时最终意识到的一个现象，就是有时候他们只是到了一个点，觉得你有时候就是得好好过自己的日子。

That's also part of the like phenomenon I was ultimately realizing with the older astrologers when I was younger is like sometimes they just come to a point of realizing that you just have to live your life sometimes.

你不需要总是百分百地追踪自己的情况，或者试图控制一切，或者事无巨细地管理，因为你现在已经在尽自己最大的努力，在当下的环境里采取行动，做该做的事情。

And you don't always have to be tracking your stuff 100% or trying to control or or micromanage thing because you're already doing the best you can just taking actions and doing what needs to be done in your present environment.

所以我觉得这很重要，因为我觉得有时候在二十世纪的人本主义占星学里，有一种说法或者卖点，就是说占星学本质上是有帮助的，或者类似这样的说法，我很喜欢这个说法，而且我并不是……

So I think that's important because I think sometimes in, like, twentieth century humanistic astrology, there was a argument or or a selling point of saying that astrology is inherently helpful or or something like that, which I love it, and I don't...

你知道，我确实在做这件事。

You know, I do it.

这是我为之奉献一生的事业。

It's what I've dedicated my life to.

但是，仅仅因为你懂占星学，这并不一定就能让你的生活变得更好。

But, like, just because you know the astrology, that's not gonna always inherently make your life better per se.

也许我很难表达清楚，因为我已经能想到一些反例了，因为我确实觉得它很有价值。

Maybe I'm I'm having a hard time articulating that because I can already think of, like, counterpoints because I do think it's valuable.

但是，我想说的是，有时候知道一些事情可能会有局限性，这就引出了另一个相关的问题，就是当你和客户、其他人，或者你生活中的其他人，比如家人，谈论占星学时，如何应对那些不懂占星学的人，这确实有点棘手。

But, I guess I'm trying to figure out that there can be limitations sometimes to knowing perhaps, and that brings in a whole other side issue when it comes to, like, clients or other people or other people in your life, like family members and this trickiness in terms of how to deal with people that are non astrologers when you talk about astrology.

但我觉得，我们整个讨论基本上都局限在作为占星师是什么感觉，以及我们作为资深专业占星师对世界的看法，以及这如何影响一个人的世界观。

But I think for the most part, our entire discussion has been limited to just what it's like to be an astrologer and what our views of the world are as advanced professional astrologers and how that informs one's worldview.

我觉得，我的意思是，这更多是关于在某个时刻，也许是很久以后，但确实有一个点，知识作为单一的东西，其帮助性会递减。

And I think, I mean, I think it's just more about that there is at a certain point, maybe of, you know, a long way down the road, but there is a certain point where there's diminishing returns to how helpful knowledge always is as just a singular thing.

比如对客户来说，如果他们一年来一次或两次，我觉得那是有帮助的。

Like with clients, if they're coming once a year or twice a year, you know, I think that is helpful.

因为特别是如果他们自己不懂占星，或者只懂一点点，对吧。

Because especially if they don't know astrology themselves or they only know a limited amount or something Right.

你是在向他们展示他们自己看不到的东西，这就像是一个额外的视角。

You are showing them something they couldn't see on their own, and it is like this additional perspective.

不管这会不会改变他们接下来的决策，我觉得额外的视角仍然是有帮助的。

And whether or not that changes their decision making in the coming while, I think the additional perspective is still helpful.

我觉得这更多是在你懂占星并且每天都在实践它，而且你本身就是占星师的情况下，那么确实有一个收益递减的点，就是知识本身什么时候真正有帮助，或者你是否已经足够了解自己生活中发生的事情。

I think it's more in the realm of when you know astrology and you live it on a daily basis and you, you know, you are an astrologer, then there there is like a point of diminishing returns of, you know, when knowledge alone is is actually helpful or if you have enough knowledge at that point about what's going on in your life.

确实。

That's true.

作为占星师，最迷人的一点是，我已经干了二十五年、二十六年了，从一九九九年、两千年开始，占星师这个身份就是一个不断展开的过程，你越来越了解自己的星盘和生活，看到它以不同的方式显现，同时也看到自己命运和宿命的展开。

One of the fascinating things about being an astrologer is that now that I've had twenty five, twenty six years in it since like nineteen ninety nine, two thousand, is being an astrologer is this this process of this unfolding of learning more and more about your chart and your life and seeing it manifest in different ways, but also seeing the unfolding of your own fate and destiny.

这是最迷人的事情之一，也是我们所有人都在做的事情。

And that's one of the most fascinating things, and that's something that we all do.

而且这个过程也有它的道理，因为随着你作为一个人成长和变化，有时候你会以不同的方式长进你的星盘里，这些方式可能是你早年没有预料到的。

And there's also a process to that because as you grow and change as a person, sometimes you grow it into your chart in different ways than you might not have expected earlier in your life.

你可能会在星盘里看到一些早期不理解的东西，因为它们还没发生，或者它们代表的是外部环境或人，还没进入你的生活，有时候它们代表的是你内在的变化，还没发生，比如改变，甚至是你将来会经历的蜕变，还没发生，所以你还无法与星盘中的那个位置产生连接，因为那是为你保留的、尚未到来的东西。

There can be things that you see in your chart early on that don't make sense because they haven't happened yet or either they represent external circumstances or people that haven't come into your life yet or sometimes they represent internal changes in you that haven't taken place yet, like changes or even like a metamorphosis that you'll go through at some point that hasn't happened and therefore you can't connect with that placement yet in your chart because it's something that still lays in store for you.

作为占星师，活出自己人生最酷的一点就是看着自己命运的展开，看着星盘，看着你的生活把星盘里的那些东西演出来，那些你完全无法预料会演出来的东西，除了它们从一开始就在你的星盘里被暗示了。

And that's one of the cool things about living out your life as an astrologer is watching the unfolding of your fate and seeing the chart, seeing your life live out sort of play out the things that you're in your chart that you could never have fully anticipated were gonna play out except they were kind of there hinted at in your chart from the very beginning.

确实。

Definitely.

或者，这也让我想起一些相位。

Or or also that reminds me of like placements.

我喜欢的一件事就是一个人星盘中的相位，以及它们在你生命的不同时期如何以不同的具体方式显现。

One of the things that I love is placements in a person's chart and how they manifest with different specifics at different times in your life.

所以也许这个相位，你特别在意它，就是说，它到目前为止在你的人生中意味着某件事，或者某一种具体的体现。

And so maybe this one placement, you're really attached to it, like, meaning this one thing, because it's meant this one thing or this one specific manifestation so far up to this point in your life.

但是，再过二十年，它可能会意味着完全不同的东西，但同时也非常符合它的象征意义。

But then, like, in twenty more years, it's gonna mean something, like, totally different, but also very fitting with this, you know, the symbolism.

是的，这就是我特别喜欢观察的事情之一。

And, yeah, that's that's one of the things that I particularly enjoy observing.

确实。

Definitely.

或者，也可能有不同的技巧、技术方法和占星传统，它们通过不同的视角来看待星盘，能给你提供关于你人生的不同视角。

Or or there can be different techniques and technical approaches and traditions of astrology that approach the chart through a different lens and it can give you a different perspective on your life.

有时候有趣的事情之一就是学习不同的占星方法。人们有时会为此纠结，因为我们都想发展出自己认为最有效的完美占星体系。

And one of the fun things sometimes is learning different approaches to astrology And people struggle with this sometimes because we're all trying to develop like the perfect system of astrology that we think is the most effective.

这就是为什么我们都选择使用那些对我们有效、并且似乎在我们的星盘中起作用的技巧。

And that's why we all choose to use certain techniques that work for us and seem to work in our chart.

而我们往往不会使用那些我们觉得与自己的星盘和生活不太吻合的技巧，不管是什么原因。

And we tend to not use techniques that we haven't found to line up very well with our chart and our life for whatever reason.

但有时候，当你学习不同的占星方法时，它可能会给你一个完全不同的视角来看待你的生活和命运。

But sometimes when you learn different approaches to astrology, it can give you a completely different perspective on your life and on your fate.

而且有时候，看看不同的观点也挺有意思的，这些观点可能不是完全正确，但至少能给你一个意想不到的视角。

And sometimes it can be interesting to see that there are different perspectives sometimes on one's chart that can be, if not equally true, at least giving you a vantage point that might be true in some way that you don't anticipate at first.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

有...

There were...

比如说，我确实有一些事情，直到后来在占星师的旅程中学到更多东西，才意识到它们在我的星盘里有所体现。

I mean, for instance, there were definitely things that I did not realize were indicated in my chart until I learned, like, the things that I learned later, you know, in my journey as an astrologer.

但反过来，也有一些我很早就学到的东西，到现在还在用。

And yet there are also certain things, conversely, that I learned very early on that I still use.

你知道吗？

You know?

所以，我觉得，无论是我们的生活还是星盘，确实都是多方面的。

So, I mean, the, know, both our lives and our our charts are multifaceted in that way for sure.

多方面的。

Multifaceted.

而且，你知道，对我来说也是，这就是为什么我觉得在学习的早期阶段多研究不同的方法是个好主意，这样你就能有一个广阔的视角，然后决定你想采用哪种方法，以及你想真正专攻什么。

And, you know, for me also, that's why I think it's a good idea to study many different approaches early in your studies so that you have a wide vantage point and then can decide what approach you wanna take and what you wanna like really come to specialize in.

你应该广泛学习，然后选择你想专攻的方法，并真正深入钻研。

That you should like learn widely and then choose approach that you wanna specialize in and really hone that in.

但对我来说，现在到了后期，这意味着我已经有了自己选择的一套特定技巧，这些是我最喜欢的技巧，我一直觉得它们最可靠或最重要。

But then for me now, later, that means I've got my selection of specific techniques that I like to use that are my favorite techniques that I've always found are the most reliable or important.

但我知道还有其他技巧，偶尔我会瞥见它们，看到它们能多么有说服力地展示一些东西，要么呼应我已经使用的技巧，要么提供不同的视角或我可能无法获得的信息。

But I know there's, like, other techniques out there that occasionally, like, I'll get a glimpse of and I'll see just how compelling they can be in showing things that either echo techniques that I already use or can give a different perspective or information that maybe I don't have access to.

比如说，像小行星，或者恒星，或者类似的东西，这些我不太常用。

Like, let's say, like, asteroids, for example, or fixed stars or something like that that I don't use very regularly.

我会看到这些，看到它们令人印象深刻，然后知道外面还有其他我可以使用的东西，尽管最终，我对自己最擅长、觉得最有说服力的技巧充满信心，并且觉得只用这些技巧就很好。

And I'll, like, see that and see that that's impressive and sort of know that there's other stuff out there I could be using even though ultimately, like, I'm confident and feel fine just using the techniques that I really feel the strongest with and feel the most compelling to me.

我不知道我想说什么。

And I don't know what my point is.

其中一个观点就是，有时候发展出一套你真正喜欢的占星系统或方法是可以的，这并不一定意味着其他方法就无效。对。

Like one of the points is just that it's okay sometimes to like develop a system or an approach to astrology that you really like and it doesn't necessarily invalidate other approaches Mhmm.

因为归根结底，占星学太复杂了，有很多不同的方式来看待事物。

Because ultimately astrology is so complex that there's many different ways that you can look at things.

完全同意。

Absolutely.

我刚才……

As I was...

你说话的时候，我就在想，占星学就像惠特曼那句名言，你知道的，我自相矛盾吗？很好。

As you were talking, was just thinking astrology is like that Walt Whitman quote, like, you know, do I contradict myself very well?

我自相矛盾。

I contradict myself.

我包罗万象。

I contain multitudes.

就是那种感觉。

And it's that kind of thing.

其实占星学是非常庞大的。

Astrology is very large, actually.

你知道吗？

You know?

而且有不同的传统和不同的技巧。

And there are different traditions, different techniques.

你永远不可能全部掌握，也不可能对所有的东西都同样精通。

You're never actually gonna master all of it, like be particularly proficient at all of it equally.

所以，专注于某个你觉得特别可靠、而且看盘时对你很有效的东西，是挺好的。

So it is good to, you know, like specialize in something that you feel is like very repeatable, you know, and, you know, works well for you when you look at charts.

但同样重要的是，保持开放的心态，也许还有其他你还没接触过的东西……

But it's also equally good to, like, keep an open mind that there are other things that perhaps you haven't...

比如其他占星方法或技巧，可能你个人还没怎么研究过，或者你只是还没深入探索，或者没时间，或者别的什么原因。

You know, other approaches to astrology or other techniques, for example, that you either haven't studied as as much personally or, yeah, you just haven't delved into or haven't had the time or what have you.

那些也可能带来有趣的见解。

That could also give interesting insights.

你知道，那里……

You know, that there...

这是一个多层面的东西。

It is a multifaceted thing.

它不是一次性就结束的现象。

It is not like a once and done, you know, phenomenon.

占星术一直在不断演变和成长，不同的传统会发展、分化，走向不同的方向，但偶尔它们也会交汇、融合，产生新的东西。

When it's like astrology has always been in a constant state of evolving and growing and different traditions like will develop and diverge and go in different directions, but then occasionally they'll converge and come together and intersect and create something new.

然后又会再次分化，之后在某个节点再次汇聚。

And then there'll be another divergence and then they'll come back again at different points.

这些传统不断在不同点上交叉。

And the traditions are constantly crisscrossing at different points.

我觉得这真的很好。

And I think it's really good.

就像，两者都没问题。

It's like both both are fine.

我觉得专注于某一种方法，把它作为你唯一的方向，这没问题；同时，专注于多种方法也是可以的。

I think it's fine to like specialize in a specific approach and make that your only thing, and it's also fine to specialize in multiple approaches.

对我来说，从一名现代占星师起步，然后经历巨大的转变去学习希腊化占星，并全身心投入其中，尽可能深入，这让我感到非常充实。

And for me, it's been fulfilling to start as a modern astrologer, have this huge shift to learning about Hellenistic astrology and to fully embrace that and go as far as I could with that.

但后来，你知道，在过去的五到十年里，尤其是写完我的书之后，我又重新审视了一些我喜欢的现代占星内容，并把它们融入到我的希腊化占星实践中，这样我拥有的就是一种融合了最佳元素的混合方法。

But then, you know, over the past five, ten years, especially once I finished my book, to then revisit some of the things I like about modern astrology and fold those into my work with Hellenistic astrology so that what I have is a hybrid approach that synthesizes the best of the...

那些我觉得对我最有吸引力、最让我信服的部分。

Of what I felt was the most compelling for me for...

从希腊化、中世纪、文艺复兴、现代，甚至古代美索不达米亚的传统中，把最好的部分整合起来，形成我独特的综合方法，这也是我通过《占星播客》一直在努力展示的。

Of the Hellenistic and medieval and and Renaissance and modern and even ancient Mesopotamian traditions and now to tie those best pieces into one in my unique synthesis or approach that I've tried to more or less demonstrate through The Astrology Podcast at this point.

但这个方法总在不断地成长和变化，因为我总是在学习新东西，看到新现象，并把这些新的观察融入进去，继续努力成长，作为占星师学到更多。

But it's always still growing and changing because I'm always learning new things and seeing new things and incorporating those new observations as I continue to try to grow and learn more as an astrologer?

是的，完全同意。

Yeah, absolutely.

我确实也还在融合一些早期学到的现代占星内容，以及一些希腊化占星的方法和技巧。

I definitely still blend, you know, some modern things that I learned early on and some Hellenistic approaches as well and techniques.

而且，是的，我认为在占星界，认识到这一点很重要：仅仅因为某一种方法、某一种技巧能给你带来非常有价值的洞见，并不意味着其他技巧和方法就不能带来有价值的洞见。

And, yeah, I think it's it's important in the astrological world to to recognize that just because one thing, one approach, one technique shows you really valuable insights, that doesn't mean that other techniques and approaches don't also show valuable insights.

它们可以是你生活的不同视角，不同的洞见，等等。

And they can be different vantage vantage points on your life, different insights, and so forth.

好的。

Alright.

那么让我们回到……

So let's bring it around...

回到占星和命运，以及最终令人兴奋或赋权的积极一面，那就是我认为了解你在生活不同领域的命运和天命是有价值的。

Back around to astrology and fate and the positive side of that ultimately that is exciting or empowering, which is I think there's something valuable about learning, what your fate and what your destiny is in different areas of your life.

就像出生星盘一样，你的星盘和生活中总有一些部分会是你的重点。

And that it's like with the birth chart, there's gonna be some parts of your chart in your life that are gonna be more of your focus.

这是你在出生星盘中相对容易看到的事情之一。

Like that's one of the things you can see in the birth chart, you know, relatively well.

有时候，就像我们生活中那些……

Sometimes it's like the parts of our life that are...

我们关注得多一些或少一些的部分。

That we focus on more or that we focus on less.

然后有时候，我们生活中更具挑战性的部分，那里有我们最大的挑战，而有些部分则对我们来说更容易一些。

And then sometimes the parts of our life that are more challenging for us where we have some of our greatest challenges and parts of our life where things will come a little bit more easily to us.

但占星术是一个了解我们命运和宿命的过程，对我来说，这是一件积极的事情，因为就像你所说的，了解自己的命运、自己在宇宙中的位置以及自己的使命，会让人感到安心和满足。

But that astrology is a process of learning about our fate and our destiny, and that to me, that's a positive thing just because there's something you were saying like reassuring or fulfilling about learning what your destiny is and what your place is here in the cosmos and what your purpose is.

而且，你确实有某种使命，你尽力去完成它，无论它是通过你的选择还是通过你的环境实现的，你的命运和宿命至少会影响你周围的人，比如你的直系亲属、朋友、邻居或同事等等。

And the notion that you do have some sort of purpose that you're trying to fulfill to the best of your ability, whether it's something that comes about through your choices or it comes about through your circumstances, and that your fate and destiny will impact the fate and destiny of other people at the very least those around you in your, like, immediate family or friends or neighbors or coworkers or what have you.

但在某些情况下，对某些人来说，我们的命运或宿命可能超越我们认识的本地人的有限范围。

But also in some instances, for some people, our fate or our destiny can go outside of our limited framework of of local people that we know.

而且它可以……

And it can...

我们的生活和命运可以在某种程度上影响更大的世界或更广泛的人群，是的。

Our life and our destiny can impact the larger world or the larger population in some way Mhmm.

如果那是我们命运的一部分，让这一切发生的话。

If that's part of our our destiny for that to occur.

当然。

For sure.

我觉得有意思的是，即使你只了解占星术描述你性格和个性的那部分，这本身就说明你注定是那样的人，而且很多人其实觉得这很有认同感。

I mean, I think it's interesting how, like, even if you only know the astrology to the extent that it describes your personality and character, that that in self is saying you're fated to be that kind of person, and that many people actually find that validating.

你懂吗？

You know?

它验证了他们就应该做独特的自己，而且，当然，尤其是当你在某个生活领域觉得自己不符合文化规范或应该成为的样子时，这特别有认同感。

It validates that they are supposed to be, like, their unique self, and that it's not, you know, that's, of course, especially validating when you don't feel, for instance, like you're, you know, the exact cultural norm or something that you're supposed to be in whatever area of life.

但即使你只走到第一步，比如个性，它就是说你应该做你自己，那个人应该做他们自己，他们和你不同，这没关系，也很好，你懂吧。

But, you know, even when you go to that first step of just, like, personality, it's like, you are supposed to be you, and that other person is supposed to be them, and they are different than you, and that is that is fine and good, you know.

然后这就继续延伸到生活的其他领域，或者你生活中的具体话题。

And then that just keeps extending further to other areas of your life or, you know, specific topics in your life.

我觉得最终，对命运这个概念的理解，以及它给人感觉是积极还是消极，这有点像土星的特质。

I think ultimately, you know, the the grappling with the idea of fate and whether it feels positive or negative is is like a Saturnian thing.

但土星本身也不只是负面的。

But that Saturn itself is also not only negative.