定义月球的虚空

你不能说那个人的一生毫无意义。

You can't really say that guy's life amounted to nothing.

不管你对他怎么看，他都是历史上的人物。

Whatever you think of him, he's a figure in history.

所以对我来说，这倾向于表明：也许希腊化时期的定义不该被如此轻易地抛弃。

So that to me of leans towards, Okay, well, maybe the Hellenistic definition shouldn't have been thrown out quite so easily.

这就是为什么我非常想知道它后来发生了什么。

And that's why I'm fascinated to know what happened to it.

我认为这就是我所面临的问题之一，因为我觉得阿尔·莫里森推广了这个概念。

And I think that's of the issues that I have because I think Al Morrison did popularize it.

但有时，一些后来的现代占星师会回溯阅读像四世纪的菲米库斯·马特努斯这样的占星家，菲米库斯确实对‘无月行’进行了定义和解释，但他实际上并没有说明如何确定或界定它。

But sometimes, some of the later modern astrologers, they would go back and read astrologers like Firmicus Maternus from the fourth century when Firmicus would define and give you interpretations of the void of course Moon, except he actually doesn't say how to how to, determine it or how it's defined.

但他确实有一章专门讨论它在出生图中的意义。

But he does have a chapter on just interpreting what it means in a birth chart.

他给出了极其负面的解读，而二十世纪的现代占星师读到这些后，误以为这些解读适用于现代定义，而现代定义要常见得多。

And he gives these extremely negative delineations of what it means, and then the modern astrologers who read that in the twentieth century thought those applied to the modern definition, which is much less rare.

就像把鸡蛋、苹果和橙子混在一起。

Like mixing egg, apples, and oranges.

是的，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

所以我认为问题的一部分在于，我们在阅读古代文本时必须小心，确保古人定义事物的方式与我们一致，因为有时我们可能会误解，把东西混在一起，造成问题。

And so I think that's part of the problem is we have to be careful sometimes to make sure when we're looking at ancient texts that they're defining things in the same way that we are, because sometimes we can actually misinterpret and we can mix things up in a way that could be problematic.

完全正确。

Totally.

所以我正在快速翻阅费尔米库斯的译本，想找到他对“无月行”的定义，因为他的描述真的非常极端，但能让我们了解他们当时是如何定义这个概念的。

So I'm trying to flip through a translation of Firmicus really quickly to find his definition of void of course because it's very it's kind of over the top, honestly, but it gives you some context for how they defined it.

所以我刚找到了。

So I just found it.

这是在费尔米库斯·马特努斯的著作中。

So it's in Firmicus Maternus.

这是20世纪70年代让·雷·斯普拉姆的译本。

This is the translation by Jean Rai Spram from the 1970s.

它在《科特斯之书》第八章。

It's in Liber Cortes chapter eight.

它说，如果月亮正朝向虚无移动。

It says if the Moon is moving towards nothing.

如果月亮的位置使其朝向虚无，且不与任何行星成相位，也没有吉星位于四角。

If the Moon is located that she is moving towards nothing, it is in aspect to no planet, and there is no benefic planet on the angles.

这将使人们陷入贫困，失去所有生活必需品。

This will make poppers destitute of all necessities without means of daily life.

他们靠乞讨为生，总是需要陌生人的帮助才能维持生命。

They beg for a living and are always in need of a stranger's help to sustain life.

他们始终低于父母，身体也虚弱多病。

They will always be inferior to their parents and their bodies sickly.

他们遭受感染性伤口的折磨，而且他还继续写道。

They suffer from infected wounds and he actually goes on.

这非常不，不太

It's very not very

那么，我们现在得查一下温斯顿·丘吉尔的星盘，看看他是否把木星放在了角上，因为他显然不符合这种情况。

Well, now we have to look up Winston Churchill's chart and see if he had Jupiter on an angle because he certainly doesn't fit for that.

是的。

Yeah.

你提到这一点其实非常重要，他并不仅仅是说月亮空亡。

And that's actually a really important point, you noting that, that he doesn't just say Moon void of course.

他说的是，如果月亮不是空亡，而且星盘中也没有吉星位于角上，因此从一开始他就给出了某些缓解条件。

He says, if the Moon is not void of course and there's no benefic that is angular in the chart, so there's mitigating conditions to even his delineation here right from the start.

我在空亡月亮的历史中还发现另一个有趣且一致的点：你应当考虑一些缓解条件，而后来的一些定义也是如此。

And that's another interesting consistent thing that I found in the history of the void of course Moon as well is there can be mitigating conditions that you're supposed to take into account, and this is also true from some of the later definitions as well.

对。

Right.

那我们来看一看吧。

Well, let's have a look.

我这里有温斯顿·丘吉尔的

I've got Winston Do Churchill's

我们有他准确的出生时间吗？

we have a good birth time for him?

我们来看看我这里有什么。

Let's have a look what I've got here.

我这里有的是astrotheme.com上的凌晨1:30。

I've got 01:30AM on astrotheme.com.

好的。

Okay.

Astrotheme并不可靠，但我好像也有同样的数据。

Astro theme is not reliable, but it looks like I have it as well.

这是丘吉尔的父亲提供给占星师约翰·艾迪的A级星盘。

And it's like an A rated chart from Churchill's father to the astrologer John Addy.

所以，这似乎

So that Well, seems

根据这个，哦，他的金星可能正好在下降点附近。

according to this, Oh, he might have Venus just about on his Descendant.

哦，我们有个问题，因为他的上升星座非常靠后。

Oh, we have an issue because his Ascendant's really late.

这个问题对我来说更严重，因为我使用整宫制，而对你来说没那么重要。

More an issue for me because I use whole sign houses than it is for you.

但他的上升星座

But his Ascendant

不，我其实也使用整宫制。

No, I actually use whole sign houses.

只是这个星盘不是整宫制的，我们来看一下。

Just this chart isn't whole sign house, so let's have a look.

好的。

Okay.

这是星盘。

So here's the chart.

它显示的是1874年凌晨1:30出生，上升星座为天秤座29度56分。

It has twenty nine fifty six Virgo rising with a 01:30AM birth time from 1874.

所以说实话，可能是处女座上升，也可能是天秤座上升。

So honestly, it could be either Virgo rising or Libra rising.

我们其实并不确定。

We don't really know.

但有趣的是，在这个星盘中，如果我们采用处女座上升，这将是一个夜盘，金星位于第四整宫（射手座22度）并处于角宫位置，哦，

But it's actually really interesting that in this chart, this would be if we took the Virgo rising chart, it would be a night chart with Venus angular in the fourth whole sign house at 22 degrees of Sagittarius Oh,

确实是这样。

so it is.

对。

Yes.

离天底在射手座的度数也不算太远。

Not too far from the degree of the IC at of Sagittarius.

所以即使在 quadrant 系统中，它也正在变得更接近。

So even in the quadrant, it's getting I have closer

我想找一下那些出生时月亮空亡的人的名单，因为我有一份很详细的列表。

to find my list of people born with the void of course Moon because I've got an extensive list of it.

好的。

Okay.

所以按照现代定义，这算是空亡吗？

So this would be void according to the modern definition?

你是这个意思吗？

Is that what you're saying?

嗯，确实是的。

Well, yes, it would be.

所以这里存在

It's so there's

没有根基。

no stem.

不过你并不是用这个来举例说明希腊化时期的定义，对吧？

You weren't using this as an example of the Hellenistic definition though, right?

不是，我用这个来举例说明哦，找到了。

No, I was using this as an example of theoh, there we are.

我好像没有它。

I don't seem to have it.

这真让人烦。

It's really annoying.

不，我用它来举例说明中世纪版本中的空缺。

No, I was using it as an example of void of course in the Medieval version.

但再说一次，我想我们是在拿苹果和橘子比较，因为关于吉星在角度上的说法源自希腊化时期，对吧？

But again, I suppose we're mixing apples with oranges because the whole thing about the benefic on an angle is from the Hellenistic, is it?

这来自菲米库斯，属于希腊化传统。

That's from Firmicus, from the Hellenistic tradition.

是的。

Yeah.

希腊化时期。

The Hellenistic.

是的。

Yeah.

但这是一个很好的例子，说明在阅读菲米库斯的作品时，可以立即注意到存在例外情况。

But that's a good, you know, just example in terms of reading from Firmicus and noting right away that there were exceptions.

他说是的。

He says Yeah.

如果月亮处于无途状态，且没有角上的吉星，因为如果有角上的吉星，那会强烈违背这些指示。

If the Moon's void of course and there's no angular benefic because if there's an angular benefic, that's gonna contradict some of those indications very strongly.

让我看看菲米库斯是否还提到其他相关且不那么令人沮丧的内容。

Let me see if there's anything else that Firmicus says that's relevant and not super depressing.

是的。

Yeah.

如果月亮在金牛座或巨蟹座呢？

What about if it's in Taurus or Cancer?

那是中世纪的缓解因素，我们稍后再谈。

That's a medieval mitigating factor, we can get to that in a second.

好的。

Okay.

所以攻击他们的关节。

So attack their joints.

好的。

Okay.

他说，在这种情况下，他们会遭受感染的伤口或恶性体液的影响，好的。

He says, they suffer from infected wounds or malignant humors under this Okay.

我们别吓到人了。

Let's not freak people out.

我不确定是否要吓到他们。

I'm not sure to freak them out.

这是菲米库斯说的，他非常夸张，但他确实

It's Firmicus, he's very over the top, but he does

是的。

Yeah.

所以说别吓坏了。

Say So don't freak out.

尤其是当月亮运行在希腊人称为‘空域’的真空区域时，如果它在第一天或第三天与火星或土星形成对冲或四分相，或者凶星位于四角位置。

Especially if the Moon is running through the vacuum, which the Greeks call kenodromia, if it is in opposition or square aspect to Mars or Saturn on the first or third day, or if malefic planets are on the angles.

因此，他给出了另一个缓解条件：当凶星位于四角且月亮处于空域时，情况可能会更加不利。

So he gives another mitigating condition for if there's malefics that are angular and the Moon is void of course, then it can be more problematic.

他继续列举了其他缓解因素，比如月亮受到吉星的照耀以及其他条件。

Goes on and gives some other mitigations, like if the Moon is aspected by benefics and other conditions.

但无论如何，这一点的重点是，他是在natal占星解读的语境中描述一种极为罕见的现象，这也是为什么它被认为值得关注的原因。

But anyway, the point of that was just he's delineating that originally within the context of a natal delineation of a birth chart of something that only occurs very infrequently, and that's one of the reasons why it was considered to be something worth noting.

因为我觉得，根据这个定义，我只见过一次月亮处于空域的情况。

Because I think I I only saw the Moon go void, of course, according to that definition.

我认为Honeycomb Collective Astrological Planner的人发现过一次，发生在2020年8月，但我觉得那一年就只有这一次。

I think that people from the Honeycomb Collective Astrological Planner found one instance of it that happened last August, in August 2020, but I think that was the the only one for that entire year.

实际上，是正确的吗？

There's actually correctly?

遗憾的是，我手头没有，但我记得曾跟别人提起过。

Unfortunately, I don't have it on me and I know I told someone about it.

有人给我写信说，网上有一个希腊占星学的月亮空亡计算器。

Someone wrote to me, There is a Hellenistic void of course Moon calculator on the internet.

我查了几年的数据，这种情况确实会发生。

And I looked at a few years and it seems to happen.

凭记忆来说，这种情况一年最多会出现7次，但有些年份一年只出现1到2次。

I would say from memory it was up to seven times a year, but some years just had once or twice.

所以我得先把这个概念理清楚，按照希腊占星学的定义，月亮空亡是不是指在出生图中，月亮在接下来不会与任何行星形成相位，同时有吉星落在四大基本点上？

So just to really get things clear in my head here, according to the Hellenistic version, it's if the Moon doesn't make an aspect to a planet in the next there's a benefic on one of the angles in a natal chart.

我们先不聊其他缓和条件了，那些只是能让情况好转一些的因素，尽管从理论上来说这个配置本身负面影响还是挺大的。

Let's leave the other mitigating conditions out because that's more just stuff that will make it better even though it's still theoretically pretty bad.

我们就直接这么定义：只要月亮在接下来的30度运行区间内不会形成任何相位，不管这个区间跨不跨越星座边界，那它就空亡了，就这么简单。

Let's just define it as the Moon is void of course if it doesn't complete any aspects in the next 30 degrees regardless of sign boundary, and that's it.

只要满足这个条件，月亮就是空亡的。

And if you have that, then the Moon is void of course.

当然也存在能改善这个情况的因素，毕竟它也不是什么世界末日，还有其他缓和条件能起作用，但就我们现在的讨论而言，先按这个定义来就好。

And there can be things that can make it better because it's not the end of the world and there's other mitigating factors, but for our purposes it's that.

你提到的那个网站，我想是 astro.seek.com，这是一个非常棒的网站，过去几年里在整合大量新颖技术——包括现代和古代的——并提供相应的计算服务方面表现非常出色。

So the site you mentioned, I think that's astro.seek.com, which is a really amazing website that's been really just kinda killing it over the past few years in terms of integrating a lot of great new techniques, both modern and ancient, and making like calculation services for them.

所以我刚刚在他们的网站上找到了你提到的希腊化历法计算器。

So I just found the Hellenistic calculator that you mentioned on their website.

我差点忘了他们已经编程实现了这个功能。

I forgot that they had programmed this.

是的。

Yeah.

它叫什么来着？

What is it again?

就在这里。

Here it is.

它叫是的，

It's Yeah,

就是这个。

that's the one.

Mooncalendar.astro.

Mooncalendar.astro.

因为我以前把它存在电脑内存里。

Because I would have it in my computer memory.

就在这里。

There it is.

是的。

Yeah.

Mooncalendar.astroseap.com。

Mooncalendar.astroseap.com.

所以它有不同的选项。

So it has different options.

所以我们现在要使用传统的七颗行星、相位和主要相位。

So we're gonna do traditional seven planets, aspects, main aspects.

我其实应该让他把那个改成‘主要’，这太棒了

I should actually have him change that to major That's a brilliant

拥有这个功能真不错。

thing to have this.

我的意思是，你知道，Solar Fire 没有这个功能，所以我应该把这个加进去。

I mean, you know, Solar Fire doesn't have this, so I should put this in there.

不。

No.

实际上，Peter 网站最棒的地方在于，每当有新功能出现时，他都会积极响应并整合进来。

Mean, and that's what's really great about Peter's website is he's been really responsive in integrating new things like this as they come out.

他还添加了专业运程模块和星座释放功能，还有许多计算器和其他工具。

He also did like a profections module and a zodiac releasing thing, and he has a lot calculator and a lot of stuff.

在无月相方法下，他定义了不同的类型，其中有一个希腊化体系，使用月亮的30度范围。

So under void of course method, he defines the different ones, and he has a Hellenistic one, which is a 30 degree orb for the Moon.

他说这种情况一年只发生几次，非常罕见。

He says happens very rare a few times a year.

所以如果你点击这个选项，查看2021年的数据，看起来只发生了两次。

So if you click that, under 2021, it looks like there's just two that happen.

所以10月2日有一次。

So there's one on October 2.

我觉得就这些了。

I think that's it, actually.

我觉得它从开始进入空亡状态，到5号就不再空亡了。

I think it goes void of course, and it stops being void of course on the fifth.

哦，5号就结束了。

Oh, it stops on the fifth.

好吧，这说得通。

Okay, that makes sense.

所以今年一整年就只有这一次。

So it's just one time in this entire year Yeah.

而且月亮会从狮子座空亡到处女座，这是一段非常长的时间。

And that the Moon will be void of course from of Leo to of Virgo, which is a really long span of time.

你能明白为什么了。

And you can see why that.

因为通常会有其他行星处于不同位置，月亮最终会与它们形成某种相位。

Because usually there's other planets in different positions that the Moon will hit an aspect with at some point.

在看到这个网站之前，我根本不敢相信这种情况真的会发生。

Until I saw this website, I just couldn't believe it ever happened.

我当时想，这真的会发生吗？

I was like, happens ever happen?

然后我发现，哦，原来这确实会发生。

And then I say, Okay, it does actually happen.

是的。

Yeah.

这是2020年的那次。

And here's the one for 2020.

所以是从8月29日到9月1日。

So it was from August 29 to September 1.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为月亮的最后一个相位是与火星成四分相，接下来的相位则是与火星成六分相。

And the Moon's last aspect, I guess, was a square to Mars, and then the next aspect was a sextile to Mars.

克里斯，让我感到困惑的是，这到底是怎么发生的？

The mystery to me here, Chris, is that how is it?

我以前就跟你说过，我从来不是个历史迷。

I I said to you before, I was never a history buff.

以前从来不是，但突然间我发生了变化。

Didn't used to be, and then suddenly something changed for me.

我的意思是，我在巴黎住了几年，周围全是历史，但我一直毫无兴趣。

I mean, I lived in Paris for a few years and I was surrounded by this history and I was never interested.

我只去看现代展览之类的，就是提不起劲，可突然间我就感兴趣了。

I went to all the modern exhibitions and all that, just wasn't, and all of sudden I was.

现在我觉得，这太奇怪了，太荒谬了，完全说不通，那东西就这么被扔掉了，被完全不同的东西彻底取代了。

And now I think, Okay, this is queer, strange, doesn't make any sense whatsoever that thing has just been thrown out and it's been completely replaced by something completely different.

这对我来说完全无法理解。

It just doesn't make sense to me.

这到底是怎么发生的？

Like, how does this even happen?

我们该怎么弄清楚这件事？

How do we get to the bottom of it?

部分原因是你必须意识到，占星术的历史极其悠久。

Part of it is just that you have to realize that the history of astrology is extremely long.

我们谈论的是两千年前的事，也就是无数代占星师之前的事。

We're talking about 2,000 ago, so we're talking about generations and generations of astrologers ago.

你必须明白的是，在过去两千年里，占星术的历史与传承，虽然今天我们可以通过互联网、书籍、博客、播客、YouTube等方式轻松传播信息。

And one of the things you have to realize is that the history and transmission of astrology over the past two thousand years, even though it's relatively easy for us to transmit information today through the Internet or through books or blogs or podcasts or YouTube or what have you.

但两千年前的人们并没有这些手段，而占星传统中，大多数情况下，要传递教义，要么通过师徒之间的口头传授，要么更常见的是通过书籍来传递。

They didn't have that two thousand years ago, but instead, for most of the astrological tradition, in order to pass on teachings, you either had to pass them on verbally from teacher to student through an oral transmission or teaching, or more commonly, you had to pass them on through books.

而在古代世界抄写一本书，你必须先得到这本书，然后让抄写员坐下来

And copying a book in the ancient world, you actually had to get the book and then have a scribe sit down

一字一句地抄写。

Literally write it.

然后逐字抄写文本，这就是古代抄书的方式。

And literally copy the text over, and that's how a book was copied.

此外，过去两千年里，占星术并非只由一种语言或一种文化持续实践，这使得情况更加复杂。

Now this was also complicated by the fact that over the past two thousand years, it hasn't just been one singular language and one singular culture that's been practicing astrology all along.

相反，许多不同的文化都曾实践占星术，期间多个帝国兴起又衰落，占星术也随之在不同文化间传播，并从一种语言翻译成另一种语言。

But instead, we've had many different cultures that have practiced astrology and many different empires that have risen and then fallen during that time, and then astrology has been transmitted from one culture to another and translated from one language to another.

当你将占星术从一种语言翻译成另一种时，传递过程并不总是完美的。

And sometimes when you translate astrology from one language to another, the transmission is not always perfect.

有时候翻译会误解原意，或者在翻译古籍时，很难准确理解其本意，你可能会误读并据此得出完全不同的定义。

Sometimes translation, you can misinterpret things or sometimes when you're translating an old text, it can be hard to understand exactly what they mean, and you might misinterpret what they mean and come up with an entirely different definition of something based on your misinterpretation.

因此，这种情况在历史上多次发生。

So there's a lot of different instances where sometimes that happens.

还有其他情况是，过去两千年里占星术本身发生了变化，出现了新技法，甚至引入了新行星，这些变化有时是刻意为之，但仍导致了对事物解读方式的转变。

There's other instances where astrology has changed or there's been new techniques introduced or even new planets introduced over the past two thousand years, and sometimes that causes changes and innovations in the system that are more deliberate, but nonetheless, they still cause shifts in how things are interpreted.

是的，这就是背景真相的第一部分。

Yeah, that's part I of the background true.

的

Of

而且确实如此。

And that does.

因为如果你想想冥王星，比如说，作为一个相对现代的行星，我想在冥王星被发现之前，行星不形成相位的情况要容易得多，天王星、海王星和冥王星被发现之前也是如此。

Because if you think about it with Pluto, say for example, as a very modern and modern planet relatively speaking, I guess back in the day before Pluto was discovered, it was much easier for a planet to go without making an aspect or before Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto were discovered.

我想，如果你不知道它们存在，你就不会知道月亮正在与它们形成相位。

I guess if you didn't know they were there, then you wouldn't know that the Moon was making an aspect to them.

而且我推测，这种情况在过去更为常见。

And I suppose it was much more common.

同时，作为一位希腊化占星师或对此有深入了解的人，你会被问到。

And at the same time, would ask you as a Hellenistic astrologer or someone who knows a lot about it.

如果我们采用希腊化的空月定义，我们是否必须把天王星、海王星和土星排除在外？

If we are to use the Hellenistic void of course Moon definition, do we have to take Uranus, Neptune, and Saturn out of the picture?

可能你无法在使用希腊化体系的同时也包含冥王星。

Probably you can't use the Hellenistic version and Pluto.

对。

Right.

一方必须抵消另一方。

One has to cancel the other out.

我的意思是，区分七颗肉眼可见的传统行星与三颗外行星——天王星、海王星和冥王星——之间是有道理的，因为后三者通常肉眼不可见。

I mean, think there is something to be said for distinction or drawing some sort of distinction between the seven visible traditional planetary bodies that you can see with the naked eye versus the three outer planets, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, which are are typically invisible to the naked eye.

而且在大多数占卜形式中，人们用肉眼能看到的东西和实际能观测到的东西之间存在差异，这种差异在概念和解释上与那些看不见或被遮蔽的事物不同。

And that in most forms of divination, what a person can see with the visible eye and what you can actually observe, that there is a difference there, a conceptual and interpretive difference between that versus that which you can't see or what's obscured in some way.

因此，你可能有充分的理由在传统行星的语境中使用这种定义，而不是纳入外行星，因为你还需要划一条界限：如果你要纳入外行星，那是否也要纳入谷神星、灶神星、智神星或其他小行星之类的天体呢？

So there might be a good reason why you might wanna draw a distinction between using this within the context of the traditional planets versus incorporating the outer planets because you also would have to draw a line between You know, if you're gonna incorporate the outer planets, are you also gonna incorporate minor planetary bodies like Ceres or Vesta or Pallas or other asteroids or other things like that?

我的意思是，如果你要使用希腊化时期的定义，我之所以很倾向它，是因为它是最早的定义。

I mean, I think if you're going to use the Hellenistic definition, which I'm quite drawn to just because it was the first one.

我的意思是，正是你让我决定使用整宫制，因为你提出了一个极好的论点，而且罗伯特·汉德在一次占星会议上也建议我使用整宫制。

I mean, you're the person who convinced me to use whole sign houses because you gave that brilliant argument and also because Robert Hand told me to use them as well at an astrology conference.

如果你要使用希腊化时期的‘空月’定义，就不能使用望远镜发现之后的行星，因为这毫无意义。

If you're going to use the Hellenistic void of course Moon, you cannot use the planets that were discovered after the telescope because it just doesn't make sense.

这太不一样了。

It's too different.

这给我带来了一个问题，因为我确实认为自己是一名现代占星师。

And that presents me with a problem because I do consider myself a modern astrologer.

当约翰·弗劳利试图说服我从我的Solar Fire中移除所有现代行星时，我说了不。

When John Frawley tried to convince me to deselect all the modern planets off my solar fire, I said, No.

我仍然说不，因为它们确实存在，而且我们知道它们存在。

And I still say, No, because they are there and we know they're there.

但如果你要使用希腊化时期的版本，我认为你确实得说，不过我们不能算上它们。

But then if you're going to use the Hellenistic version, I think you do then have to say, Except we can't count them then.

我只是觉得现代定义，或者我们称之为阿尔·莫里森定义，中世纪的版本，感觉像是人为编造的，这让我感到不安。

And I just feel like the modern definition or the Al Morrison definitionlet's call itthe Medieval versionI feel like that's kind of been made up, and that disturbs me.

好吧，我们来深入探讨一下，因为这将引出我们第二和第三个‘空亡’的定义。

Well, let's get into that because that'll get us to our second and third definitions of void of course Okay.

我们还没介绍过这些。

Which we haven't introduced yet.

那么，我们从哪里开始呢？

So let's see, where do we start here?

回到我那篇定义不同版本空亡的文章。

So going back to my article where I defined the different versions of void of course.

我从希腊化时期的定义开始，这个定义一直沿用到至少公元七世纪，即纯粹的希腊化版本的

I started with the Hellenistic definition, and that one was used for all the way through at least the seventh century CE, just the Hellenistic version of

直到七世纪。

Until the seventh century.

好的。

Okay.

有意思。

Interesting.

直到大约七世纪，因为勒托里乌斯在六世纪或七世纪提到了它。

Until about the seventh century, cause Rhetorius mentions it in the sixth or seventh century.

所以，在希腊传统即将结束时，这种定义仍然存在，那时占星家主要用希腊语写作，有时用拉丁语，基本上是在罗马帝国时期。

So it still exists then basically towards the end of the Greek tradition where astrologers were primarily writing in Greek and sometimes Latin, but basically during the Roman Empire.

但到了勒托里乌斯的时代，罗马帝国已全面衰落，当时欧洲和罗马帝国整体上已不再广泛实践占星术。

But by the time of Rhetorius, the Roman Empire is in full decline, and astrology is not being practiced as much in Europe and in the Roman Empire in general at that point.

然而，在七至八世纪左右，伊斯兰帝国兴起，其首都一度迁至巴格达。

But instead, we have around the seventh and eighth century, we have the advent of the Islamic empire, and the capital at one point gets moved to Baghdad.

当时的统治者——哈里发——召集了一群占星师，说：我们想在这座城市建立新首都，它将被称为巴格达。

And the rulers at the time, the caliph at the time, got together a group of astrologers, and they said, we wanna found a new capital in this city that will be called Baghdad.

为我们选一个适合建城的吉星占星图。

Pick us an auspicious astrological chart for founding the city.

他们照做了。

They did.

什么时候？

When this?

抱歉。

Sorry.

大约在那个时候。

Around about.

让我调出这张星盘，因为我们实际上有这张星盘，它被一位阿拉伯历史学家阿尔·比鲁尼保存了下来。

Let me pull up the chart because we actually have the chart survives from an Arabic writing historian named Al Biruni actually preserves the chart for us.

所以它看起来有点像这样。

So it looked a little bit like this.

这张星盘设定在巴格达（现代伊拉克巴格达）的七月下午两点左右。

So it's set for July around 2PM in Baghdad, modern day Baghdad, Iraq.

因此，上升星座是射手座，木星位于第一宫的射手座，这是一个日盘。

So it has Sagittarius rising with Jupiter in Sagittarius in the first house in a day chart.

太阳位于狮子座10度，在第九整宫宫位，这可能很重要，而且是刻意为之的。

The Sun is up at 10 degrees of Leo in the ninth whole sign house, which is probably important and somewhat deliberate.

月亮位于天秤座的某个位置，不过这有点复杂，因为我们计算这张星盘的方式，他们当时使用的天文方法可能略有不同。

The Moon is somewhere in Libra, although it's a little bit tricky because how we how we calculate the chart here, theirs may have been slightly different in terms of the astronomical methods that they were using at the time.

对。

Right.

但我认为他们确实有意把月亮放在天秤座，让它与位于巨蟹座的金星形成交换星座或相互守护的关系。

But but I do think that they were trying to put the Moon in Libra where it actually would have been exchanging signs or in a mutual reception with Venus, which is in Cancer.

是的

Yeah.

但有趣的是，再次联系到我们的主题，根据现代定义，月亮确实处于...

Although it's it's interesting that, again, just connected with our topic, the Moon actually does according to the modern definition.

空亡

Void of course.

当然，这里。

Of course here.

它位于天秤座27度。

It's a 27 degrees of Libra.

这可能性有多大？

What are the chances?

是的

Yeah.

但巴格达在最初的几个世纪里表现得相当不错。

So but Baghdad did pretty well for the first few centuries.

在建立这个基础之后，它不仅成为整个帝国的中心，也成为学术、商业和哲学的中心，非常伟大

And and after this foundation, it became like a center for not just the entire empire, but also for learning and commerce and philosophy Great

文明。

civilization.

是的。

Yeah.

甚至对占星术而言也是如此。

And even for astrology.

所以这是巴格达的星盘。

So that's the chart for Baghdad.

我刚才想说什么来着？

Where was I going with that?

于是，重点转向了一群阿拉伯占星家，他们开始将希腊语、拉丁语和梵语的文本翻译成阿拉伯语。

So the the focus shifts to a bunch of the Arabic astrologers started translating texts from Greek and Latin and Sanskrit into Arabic.

在这一传统或其后续发展中，某个时刻——因为几个世纪后，占星术被传回欧洲，欧洲人开始将阿拉伯语文本翻译成拉丁语，这就是占星术在罗马帝国衰落后，于十二世纪左右重新传入欧洲的方式。

And at some point during this tradition or during some of the subsequent ones because eventually, after a few centuries, astrology was transmitted back to Europe where the Europeans started translating texts from Arabic into Latin, and that's how astrology came back into Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire in like the twelfth century.

好的。

Okay.

所以大约在这个时期，我们开始在早期和晚期中世纪占星传统中的不同作者那里看到关于“空亡”的新定义。

So somewhere around this time, we get this new definition of void of course that we start seeing in different authors in the early and late Medieval astrological traditions.

所以是从八世纪左右开始吗？

So from about the eighth century?

是的，

Yeah,

从大约八世纪到十二世纪。

from, let's say, the eighth century through the twelfth century.

好的。

Okay.

太惊人了。

Amazing.

是的。

Yeah.

我想看看我这里有没有这本书。

I'm looking to see if I have a book here.

我可能没有把本·戴克斯朋友的这本书放在这间屋子里，他实际上采用了这个定义。

I may not have it in this room by my friend Benjamin Dykes, where he actually takes the definition.

但你先说吧，或者随便说点什么。

But go ahead and talk or say something.

让我看看能不能在我的电脑上找到这个，呃，电脑really

Let me see if I can find this on my Well, computer really

我想我第一件事要说的是

think the first thing I'm gonna say

如果你对历史部分没有问题的话？

If you have not questions about the historical part?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，和你聊这个真的让我觉得无比着迷，因为占星术的历史简直让我惊叹。

I mean, I find it absolutely fascinating to talk to you about this because the history of astrology just blows me away.

想想看，这种月亮的新定义是在八世纪才出现的，毕竟，这距离我们之前提到的最初定义已经过去了这么久。

And to think it was eighth century that this void of course Moon new definition came inI mean, for one thing, it's such a long time after the first definition that you've told us about.

我的意思是，从最初定义到现在，我们实际上已经跨越了八九百年的时间，对吧？

I mean, we're looking at eight hundred-nine hundred years of the first definition really, aren't we?

是的。

Yeah.

这里有一件重要的事或许值得提及：在希腊化晚期传统与早期阿拉伯中世纪传统之间，占星术经历了一项新发展，那就是祈问占星术的引入——或者说，开始全面实践这种以问题为核心的占星术，它后来成为占星术的第四大分支。

One of the things that's important that is maybe worth mentioning here is there was a new development in the history of astrology that started happening between those times, between the late Hellenistic tradition and the early Medieval tradition in Arabic, which is the introduction or at least the full fledged, starting to practice horary astrology questions which became the fourth branch of astrology.

在早期的希腊化传统中，占星术主要分为三大分支：世俗占星、命盘占星和择日占星。

So earlier in the Hellenistic tradition, they primarily had three branches, which was mundane astrology, natal astrology, and electional astrology.

对。

Right.

但在希腊化传统后期，一种新的实践逐渐从择日占星中衍生出来，最终在中世纪传统中发展成一个完整的第四大分支：客户可以向占星师提出一个具体的问题，占星师则在收到问题的那一刻绘制星盘，并仅依据该时刻的星盘来解答问题，这就是今天所说的祈问占星术。

But slowly in the Hellenistic tradition, there was this new practice that grew out of electional and eventually became a full fledged fourth branch in the Medieval tradition where a client could approach an astrologer and ask a single specific question, and the astrologer would cast a chart for the moment they received the question and then attempt to answer the question just based on the chart for that moment, and that's what's known as horary astrology today.

这种占星术类型，其第一部完整的祈问占星术专著直到大约七月才问世。

So that type of astrology, really, the first full text book on horary astrology wasn't written until around July.

因此，像埃德萨的提奥菲勒斯、马沙·阿拉和索尔·伊本·比什尔等占星家的一些著作，是现存最早关于占时占星的完整文献，他们都大约在七月或八月左右写作。

So some of the texts by astrologers like Theophilus of Edessa, Masha'allah, and Saul Ibn Bishr are some of the earliest complete works on Horii that survive, and they're all writing around the year July or August or so.

好的。

Okay.

所以这一点很重要，因为

So that's important because

这一点很重要。

That is important.

在占时占星方面，你对它有多熟悉？

In horary astrology Like, how familiar are you with horary?

我的意思是，还算熟悉。

I mean, fairly, fairly.

我知道占时占星是如何运作的。

I know how horary astrology works.

但并不了解所有细节。

Don't know all the ins and outs.

好的。

Sure.

不过回答大部分时辰占星问题的基本前提——我认为这个前提起源于6到8世纪的波斯传统以及早期阿拉伯传统——是这样的：占星师会在收到问题的那一刻绘制星盘，随后他们需要进行定位，他们始终将第一宫关联到问卜者，也就是提出问题的人；通常来说，主管第一宫或者说主管上升点、上升星座的那颗行星，会在星盘中代表问卜者本人。

So the basic premise though of answering most horary questions, which I think grew out of the Persian tradition as well as the early Arabic tradition in the sixth and seventh and eighth centuries, is that what you do is the astrologer casts the chart for when they received the question, and then they have to identify they always associate the first house with the querent or the And person who asked the usually, the planet that rules the first house or rules the Ascendant, the rising sign, that planet is thought to represent that person in the chart.

对吗？

Right?

没错。

Yeah.

所以占星师接下来要做的另一件事，就是确定哪个宫位对应所问问题的主题。

So then the other thing the astrologer has to do is they have to identify what house matches the topic of the question.

对。

Yeah.

如果客户问的是感情相关的问题，没错。

So if the client is asking about relationships Yeah.

那通常就会以第七宫作为参考。

Then they'll usually look to the seventh house.

如果他们问的是父母或家庭，他们可能会看第四宫。

If they're asking about their parents or their home, they might look to the fourth house.

如果他们问的是事业或其他事情，他们可能会看第十宫。

If they're asking about their career or something, they might look to the tenth house.

然后他们会找出该宫的守护星。

And then what they do is they find the ruler of that house.

比如说，这是一个关于关系的问题，所以他们会看第七宫。

So let's say it's a relationship question, so they look to the seventh house.

接着他们会确定哪颗行星是第七宫的守护星，并观察这颗行星是否与上升点的守护星形成相位。

They would then identify what planet is the ruler of the seventh house, and they would see if that planet is forming an aspect with the ruler of the Ascendant.

清晰的能量。

Clear energy.

是的。

Yeah.

如果这两颗行星之间正在形成一个尚在作用的相位，那么答案通常是肯定的，也就是‘是’。

So and if those two planets are forming an aspect that's still applying, then oftentimes the answer will be affirmative or the answer will be yes.

而如果它们没有形成相位，或者正在分离，或者根本没有任何相位，那么答案是否定的，也就是‘不’，对吧？

Whereas if they're not applying to an aspect or if they're separating or just not aspecting at all, then the answer is negative or is a no, right?

是的。

Yeah.

对于所有正在聆听的听众来说，我认为特别有趣的是，据我理解，霍里占星术之所以兴起，是因为在过去，比如你提到的那个年代，普通人根本不知道自己的出生日期，更不用说具体时间了。

And just for anybody who's listening, I think it's really interesting that one of the reasons why, as I understand it, Hori grew was because back in the day, back in the year July and whatever starting when you were talking about, the average person didn't know when they were born, what date, let alone what time.

我想，只有国王或王后这样的身份，才会有这样的信息被记录下来。

I think you had to be a king or a queen to have that kind of information recorded.

所以我认为，这就是霍里占星术发展起来的原因之一，对吧？

So I think that's one of the reasons why it grew up, wasn't it?

因为当问题被提出并被理解之后，你就会去查看星盘。

Because then the question is asked and understood, and then you look at the chart.

我喜欢这个观点，因为我本身是个很注重宇宙感应的人，我一直觉得在占星学中，根本不存在所谓的‘坏星盘’。

I mean, I like that idea because I'm quite a cosmic person and I've always felt in astrology there's no such thing as a bad chart.

所以对我来说，霍里占星术是有效的。

So to me, horary astrology works.

但那正是我们看到变化开始的时候吗？

But is that when we saw the change then beginning?

因为也许当时占星术需要对‘无月相’有不同的定义。

Because maybe it suited the horary astrology to have a different definition of void of course Moon.

没错。

Exactly.

我认为正是从这时起，由于这种新的占星问卜方式以及问卜术变得越来越流行，一些新的技术和概念也被引入，以便能够回答占星问卜的问题。

And I think that's part of what starts happening at this point is because of that new approach to horary and horary becoming becoming much more popular, that there were also some technical some new techniques and new concepts that were introduced in order to be able to answer horary questions.

因为如果你采用的是一种仅当两个行星直接形成相位，且恰好是与问题对应的两个宫位的守护星时才成立的方法，那么这种情况其实很少见。

Because if you're using that approach where it's only if two planets are directly applying to an aspect and those happen to be the rulers of the two houses that match the question in the chart, then that's kind of rare that that happens.

因此，当时他们不得不引入一些额外的概念，以便在其他情况下也能让这两个行星产生联系。

So they had to introduce a few additional concepts at this time in order to make other situations where those two planets could connect

是的。

Yeah.

即使它们并非直接形成相位。

Even if they weren't doing so directly.

因此，在这个时期，我们看到了诸如‘光的传递’等概念的引入。

So at this time, we see the introduce introduction of concepts like transfer of light Yeah.

这指的是两个行星没有相位联系或正在分离的情况。

Which is where you have two planets that are not aspecting each other or that are separating.

但如果你有第三个行星，比如月亮或水星，它移动得非常快，先从一个行星分离，再与另一个行星形成相位，就能将两者连接起来，这就是所谓的‘传递光’。

But if you have a third planet like the Moon or Mercury that's really fast and it swoops in and it separates from one planet and applies to another, then it can connect the two of them or transfer the light as it's called.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

如果上升点太早或太晚，这个概念也是在这个时候被引入的，对吧？

And if the Ascendant is too early or too late as well, introduced, didn't they?

是的。

Yeah.

所以也许他们只是想提出一大堆不同的缓和因素。

So maybe Also they just wanted to come up with a whole lot of different kind of mitigating factors.

是的。

Yeah.

而且还有很多类似的小因素，后来要么是被有意创造出来的，要么是被发现的。

And and there's a lot of little factors like that that then came about and either were, you know, deliberately invented or that were discovered.

我也不太确定。

I don't really know.

但我认为这可能与占时占星有关，后者更加

But I think it was possibly connected with horary, which is much

占时占星的兴起。

The rise more of horary.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一种更动态地运用占时占星的方式，其中‘应用’与‘分离’的概念，以及各 significators 的行为变得非常重要。

Which is a much more dynamic use of horary where this notion of application and separation and what are the significators doing becomes very important.

特别是卜卦占星中的月亮，永远会被当作相关问题或是求问者的次要征象星来考量。

Especially the Moon in horary is always treated as a secondary significator for the question or for the querent.

而且它在择日占星学里也是至关重要的。

And is vital in electional astrology.

对，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

所以如果月亮的状态不佳——判断月亮状态好坏有很多不同的标准——那这无论对于你的卜卦问题还是择日星盘来说，都是非常关键的情况。

So if the Moon is not in good shape according to there's many different conditions where the Moon can be in good shape or bad shape, then that's very important in either your horary question or in your electional chart.

对。

Yeah.

那我来给你读几个中世纪传统里关于空相（void of course）的定义，这些都来自公元八、九世纪左右的资料。

So let me read you some definitions of void of course that come from the Medieval tradition from like the eighth and ninth century.

那这些定义都是谁提出的呢？

And who they're from.

是的。

Yeah.

这是来自我的朋友本杰明·戴克斯的一本书，他几年前翻译了一批中世纪文献，这本书名为《阿布·马沙尔与卡布塞导论》。

So this is from a book by my friend Benjamin Dykes where he translated a bunch of Medieval texts a few years ago, and this book is titled Introductions to Abu Ma'shar and Al Kabese.

所以这里说的是，我没有PDF版本。

So here is the And I don't have the PDF.

我电脑里有一个预出版版本，当时我正在校对，所以这可能不是最终译文，但已经很接近了。

I have a pre publication version just on my computer that I was proofreading, so this may not be the final translation, but it's close enough.

所以它写道：‘空亡’。

So it says, emptiness of course.

这来自第三卷或第三部分的第九条定义。

So this is from book three or section three, definition nine.

阿拉伯文原文本杰明说意思是‘空亡’，其他后来的译者则将其译为‘孤寂’或‘行度空亡’等等。

The Arabic Ben says is emptiness of course, and other later translators translated it as solitude or void in course and so on and so forth.

根据阿布·马沙尔《占星学导论》的缩略版记载：‘孤寂’是指，当一颗星在稍后并未以任何上述方式与其他星相联结，同时在该星座内也未与其他任何星相联结时。

So according to the abbreviation of the Introduction to Astrology by Abu Ma'shar, it says, solitude is if a little after disregard some star attaches to it in none of the above stated ways, but neither does it attach to any star while it is in that sign.

这有点复杂，因为它需要结合其他已定义的概念，比如‘忽视’。

So that's a little complicated because it's like taking into account other definitions such as disregard that it's already defined.

但我们来读下一个。

But let's read the next one.

这是来自阿布·马沙尔的《大引论》。

This is from Abu Ma'shar's greater introduction.

它说：‘空虚之行’是指一颗行星从另一颗行星的合相中分离出来，无论是通过实体合相还是相位，且只要它处于同一星座内，就不会与其他任何行星相合。

It says, the emptying of the course is if a planet would be separated from the conjunction of another planet by bodily conjunction or by aspect, and it would not be joined to another so long as it were in that same sign.

或者来自阿尔·哈比齐的定义：如果一颗行星被另一颗行星所忽略，且只要它处于同一星座内，就未与任何其他行星相联，则称其行为空虚。

Or a definition from Al Khabizi, it says, and if one planet is being disregarded by another and it is being connected to none of the planets so long as it is in the same sign, its course is said to be empty.

最后，来自《九判书》，我想这应该是这本书，或者是《九法官》，除非这是来自阿尔加贝塞的，我其实不太确定。

And finally, from the book of nine judgments, I think this is what this is or nine judges, unless this is from Algabese, I'm actually not sure.

但它说：如果月亮处于空虚之行，它象征着徒劳、废止、偏离原定目标，以及阻碍该目标的实现。

But it says, if the Moon were void in course, it signifies futility and annulment and turning back from that same purpose and the impediment of that same purpose.

本恩在这里有一个小定义或小图示，并进一步阐释了这个概念。

And Ben has a little definition or a little diagram here, and he goes on to explicate the concept.

所以这里有趣的是，在阿布·马沙尔的定义中，我们看到了一个新元素的引入，即他提到‘只要它处于同一星座内’。

So what's interesting here is in the Abu Ma'shar definition, we're seeing the introduction of something that's new, which is he has this statement, so long as it were in the same sign.

所以他说，当一颗行星从另一颗行星的合相中分离出来时，无论是通过实体合相——也就是我们今天所认为的合相——还是通过相位，这里的含义是指其他相位，如六分相、四分相、三分相和对分相，只要它仍处于同一星座内，就不会与其他行星结合。

So he says, when a planet is separated from the conjunction of another planet, either bodily conjunction, which is what we consider to be a conjunction today, or by aspect, and what it means by that is by the other aspects, which are sextile, square, triner, opposition, and it would not be joined to another planet so long as it were in the same sign.

好的。

Okay.

所以在这里，我们开始看到一种不同的定义出现。

So here, we're starting to see a different different definition coming

他是什么时候写的？

And when was he writing?

阿布·马沙尔生活在九世纪，也就是大约公元800年左右。

Abu Ma'shar was in the ninth century, so let's say around the year August or something CE.

明白了。

Okay.

所以他没有具体说明任何内容。

So he doesn't specify any

听上去他似乎是罪魁祸首。

So he's culprit by the sounds of it.

虽然如此，

Although Yeah,

我本来想说，因为我们聊天时一直在想，现在人们不再只是谈论月亮处于空亡状态了。

I was just going to say because the other thing that I keep thinking as we're talking is nowadays people don't just talk about the Moon being void of course.

人们会说，金星也处于空亡状态。

People will say, Venus goes void of course.

有些人会谈论行星处于空亡状态。

Some people talk about planets being void of course.

我的意思是，我不知道这有多非正统，但他们显然也在使用同样的定义。

I mean, I don't know how unorthodox that is, but they're definitely using the same definition as well.

所以你会开始想，好吧，这种说法是从什么时候开始的？

So then you're sort of thinking, Okay, when did that start?

这一切是怎么发展成这样的？

How's this all grown up?

因为说实话，我觉得我们还是应该坚持最初的定义。

Because I feel like we should stick with the original, quite frankly.

不过，你这里提到了一个非常好的观点。

Well, a really good point though that you're making here.

因为我们可以注意到，关于这个定义，阿布·马沙尔的表述其实并没有将其限定在月亮上。

Because one of the things we can note about this definition is that it does actually it doesn't restrict it to the moon, in Abu Ma'shar's definition.

它只是说：是的。

It just says Yes.

如果一颗行星与另一颗行星的合相分离了，

If one planet if a planet is separated from the conjunction of another planet,

那么它就不是一颗行星。

and then it is not a planet.

但这里的意思是，在这种情况下，它并不仅仅局限于月亮。

Well, it's just that it means that it's not just restricted to the moon in this case.

尽管希腊化传统中的原始定义似乎只针对月亮，但如今他们实际上已经将其扩展，涵盖了任何行星。

Even though the original definition in the Hellenistic tradition seemed to be just about the moon, they've actually made it wider so that it's talking about any planet.

是的。

Yeah.

任何行星，只要没有与其他行星相合，就将在改变星座之前无法完成该相位。

And any planet, as long as it's not applying to another planet, will not complete that aspect before it changes sign.

所以，这可能也与占时占星有关，因为它涉及占时 significators 的行为，以及它们如何描述问题的结果。

So maybe that's also, again, due to horary because it has to do with the horary significators what they're gonna do and how that describes the outcome of the question.

我不认为占时占星会考虑行星处于空亡状态，对吧？

I don't think horary takes into account a planet being void of course, though, does it?

嗯，我想从某种意义上说，如果它是 significator，而它没有与目标相合，那确实算。

Well, I suppose it does in terms of the fact that if it's significator, it's not applying to the object.

它确实算，但又不算。

Suppose it does in a Well, I mean, it does and it doesn't.

它算，但不是特别明确地算。

It does, but not specifically.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这很相关。

I think that's relevant.

这并不是最常见的事情，而你的重要 significator 之一就是如此。

It's not the most common thing, which is one of your important significators.

如果它位于星座末尾且不与其他任何行星形成相位，那么这可能暗示了关于‘是的’的一些信息。

If it's towards the end of the sign and it's not applying to any other planet, then that may tell you something about Yeah.

比如说，如果有人问他们感兴趣的人是否会结婚之类的问题，而另一方的 significator 是

You know, let's say if you're ask if somebody's asking if their person they're interested in, if they're gonna get married or something like that, and the significator of the other party is

处于空亡状态。

is like Void of course.

空亡，那么

Void of course, then

是的。

Yeah.

这并不是一个很好的迹象，表明你们将来会在一起，因为行星本身并没有相互靠近，而其中一个完全游离在外，独自漫无目的地徘徊。

That's not gonna be a great indication that you guys are getting together in the future because the planets themselves are not moving towards each other, and one of them is just completely out to lunch and wandering around on its own.

因此，这或许代表了那个人的漂泊或孤立状态。

So perhaps that represents a sort of wandering or isolation on the part of that person.

但你刚才提到，最早谈论月亮空亡并使用传统原始定义的希腊化占星家，是将这一概念应用于命盘的。

But you were saying that the Hellenistic astrologers who were first talking about the Moon being void of course and using the traditional original definition, they were applying it to natal charts.

而我们现在却把它从命盘中提取出来，应用到当时根本不存在的占卜术中——占卜术大概是后来才出现的。

And now we talk about it being taken from natal charts into something which didn't even exist at the start of things, horary, which was introduced, I suppose.

所以，我认为我们这是在拿苹果和橙子做比较。

So again, I think we're mixing apples with oranges.

这并没有让我更清楚，但至少我理解了这个时间线。

It doesn't leave me any clearer in a way, at least I'm understanding the timeline.

话虽如此，他们可能也曾将它用于择日占星。

I mean, that being said, there may have used it in electional charts.

有一些关于择日占星的幸存著作，比如公元一世纪的西顿的多罗修斯，以及五世纪的底比斯的赫菲斯提昂。

There's a few surviving works on electional astrology like Dorotheus of Sidon from the first century or Hephaistio of Thebes from the fifth century.

我想不起来了。

I can't remember.

我觉得赫菲斯提昂可能在某处提到过空亡作为一种择日条件，但即便如此，它主要还是用于命盘情境，就像我们在费尔米库斯·马特尔努斯那里看到的那样。

I think Hephaistio might mention void of course as an electional condition at one point, but that being said, it's like it's mainly used in a in a a natal context like we saw in Firmicus Maternus.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，是的，我认为这很重要。

So, yeah, I mean, I do think it's important.

另一个区别是，在希腊化传统中，他们同时使用基于星座的相位和基于度数的相位。

The other thing that's a difference is that in the Hellenistic tradition, they were using both sign based aspects and degree based aspects.

但在中世纪传统中，由于转向卜卦占星，重心更多地转向仅使用基于度数的相位，而不是再结合基于星座的相位。

But in the Medieval tradition, due to the shift towards horary, there was a shift more towards just using degree based aspects rather than, in addition, using aspects by sign.

因此，我认为这也是一个相关的考量点，因为‘无月行’的定义在此时变得更加动态，更加聚焦于非常接近的基于度数的相位。

So I think that's also a relevant consideration here because the definition of void of course also becomes more dynamic and becomes more focused on, you know, just very close degree based aspects at this point.

它变得基于月亮在离开星座之前不形成任何相位。

It becomes based on not making an aspect before leaving the sign.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

所以到那时，我们可以停下来了，因为我们认为：好了，这就是空亡的定义。

So at that point, we could stop because we think, Okay, here it is, the definition of void of course.

它是在中世纪时期被提出的。

It's introduced in the Medieval period.

我们在阿布·马沙尔的作品中看到了这个定义。

We see it here in Abu Ma'shar.

然后，这个定义基本上被后来的作者如17世纪的吉多·博纳蒂和威廉·利利所沿用。

And then that definition more or less gets repeated by later authors such as Guido Bonatti and William Lilly in the seventeenth century who

我想他真正把它发扬光大了，因为他能出版自己的书。

Who really takes it to town, I suppose, because he could print his book.

利利很重要，因为他是第一位用英语撰写 astrology 重要教材的著名占星家。

Well, Lilly was important because he was the first major astrologer that wrote a major textbook on astrology in English.

在那之前，占星家们基本上都是用拉丁文撰写著作，因为当时拉丁语是欧洲撰写科学和哲学作品的通用语言。

And up to that point, the astrologers tended to write their books in Latin basically, because Latin was the educated language in Europe at the time that scientific and philosophical works were written in.

所以莉莉希望他的著作更具可及性，于是用英文撰写，莉莉之后不久，许多占星家也纷纷效仿。

So Lilly wanted his text to be more accessible, so he wrote it in English, and a lot of astrologers followed suit shortly after Lilly did that.

但莉莉在《基督教占星学》一书中对‘空亡’的定义，几乎影响了此后英语传统中所有关于空亡的理解方式。

But Lilly has a definition of void of course in his book Christian Astrology that then has pretty much influenced all subsequent traditions of understanding void of course in in the rest of the English tradition at this point.

是的。

Yeah.

你恰好手头有莉莉的书吗？

You don't happen to have a copy of Lilly lying around, do you?

实际上，我家里没有莉莉的书。

I do not have a copy of Lilly in this house actually.

你不会随便就放着十七世纪的文本吧？不，我有

Don't just have seventeenth century texts lying No, I have

是PDF格式的。

it on PDF.

等一下。

Hang on.

我的意思是，它确实有PDF版本。

I mean, it is on PDF.

好的。

Okay.

实际上，我身后就放着一本莉莉的书，所以我马上翻到他关于空亡的定义。

Well, I actually do have a copy of Lilly lying around right behind me, so I'm gonna very quickly flip to his definition of void of course.

好的。

Okay.

可惜我不能把书放到屏幕上，但我至少可以为我们读出来。

I can't unfortunately put it up on the screen, but I can at least read it for us.

如果你能找到PDF版本，那就太好了。

Unless you find if you find a PDF, that would be great.

我知道他的定义，我

I know his definition I

找到了。

found it.

我找到了。

I found it.

“虚无”这个概念在第一本书的某个地方。

Void of course is somewhere in the first book.

因为他定义了一堆术语和概念。

Because he defines a bunch of terms and concepts.

是的。

Yeah.

现在这些内容都进入公共领域了，可怜的老利利。

It's all public domain now for poor old Mr.

利利。

Lilly.

对。

Yeah.

那个版权就像几年前就到期了。

That copyright ran out like a few Exactly.

几个世纪前。

Centuries

不，搜索起来不会容易，因为这有点像一张图片。

No, it's not gonna be easy to search because it's kind of a picture.

不是文字。

Not text.

这是它的扫描件。

It's scan of it.

好的。

Okay.

他讨论了月亮。

He deals with the Moon.

真有趣，我们这次 episode 是临时发挥的，不过也没关系。

This is funny that we're doing all this on the fly here with this episode, but that's fine.

其实反正我们差不多都已经知道他的定义是什么了。

I mean, we pretty much know what his definition is anyway.

不过能从原主嘴里听到这话，感觉还挺好的

I suppose it's nice to hear it from the

主办方那里？这很重要，因为现在对莉莉的解读已经出现了变化，还催生了一个全新的定义。

host's It's important because there's been a reinterpretation of Lilly that's that's led to a brand new definition.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们必须意识到这一点，因为现在居然有其他占星师在现代对它的定义不一样了，这就开始引发了一些不同的

And so, we have to be aware of that because now it turns out that there's other astrologers who define it differently in the modern period, and that's starting to cause some different

对。

Yeah.

你看啊，我就反对所有这种‘咱们自己想怎么定义就怎么定义’的做法。

See, I'm anti all this of 'let's all just decide how we want it to be'.

克里斯，今天最后一个问题，我们肯定会聊到的，就是我们要不要试着还原原来的‘空亡月’的定义？

The last question today, Chris, which we will get to, is going to be, are we going to try and resurrect the original void of course Moon definitions?

那我现在就能直接告诉你，我的答案是肯定的，我完全支持这么做。

And I think I can tell you right here and now my answer is yes, I'm all for it.

不过咱们先看看几百年后 Lilly 发表见解的时候是怎么说的吧。

But let's see what Lilly says when he decides to weigh in however many hundreds of years later.

对。

Yeah.

我之后再讲讲我的看法。

I'll get to mine later.

不过我的看法是，我认为在这类问题上，所有这些考量都有其意义，从象征层面来说都能带来重要的启发。

But part of my thing is I think when it comes to things like this that all of these considerations are relevant and have something important to say from a symbolic standpoint.

所以弄清楚它们之间的区别还是很有实用价值的。

So that's one of the things that's useful though about understanding the distinction between them.

那……有没有找到呢？

So any any luck?

我找到他在《判断之前的考量》里的那段内容了，哦，他就是在那里面下的定义，找到了找到了。

Found the consideration before judgment where he Oh, defines what it here it is.

当然之一。

One of course.

好的。

Okay.

所以我在读的是Lilly的Acela版本，这是我最喜欢的版本，可惜它已经绝版了，因为我觉得这是最好的版本。

So it's on page I'm reading the Acela edition of Lilly, which is my favorite edition, which I'm sad is out of print because it seems like the best one.

但在Acela版本中，这在第54页，相当于Lilly原文的第112页左右。

But it's on page 54 of the Acela edition, which is around page one twelve of Lilly's actual text.

它说：当然无用。

It says, void of course.

当一颗行星与另一颗行星分离，且并未立即产生关联时，这颗行星就是无用的——这是十七世纪的说法。

A planet is void of course when he is separated from a planet, nor doth forthwith remember, this is the seventeenth century

是的。

Yeah.

在它处于该星座期间，也不会与任何其他行星形成相位。

Nor doth forthwith, during his being in that sign, apply to any other.

这种情况最常见于月亮。

This is most usually in the Moon.

在占卜时，你是否仔细观察月亮是否处于无途状态？

In judgments, do you carefully observe whether she be void of course?

是或否。

Yea or no.

当月亮处于这种状态时，你很少会看到事情顺利进展。

You shall seldom see a business go handsomely forward when she is so.

好的。

Okay.

只是为了说明一下，这主要涉及卜卦占星，而非出生星盘。

So it's very much about horary, not about natal, just for the record.

莉莉的第一卷是入门概念，紧接着第二卷就直接进入了卜卦占星。

Book one of Lilly is introductory concepts, and then right away in book two, he jumps right into horary astrology.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，对于利利来说，卜卦是他主要的实践。

So horary was, for Lilly, his primary practice.

这是他的专长。

He was his thing.

是的。

Yeah.

他在第三卷中确实介绍了命盘占星，但其详尽程度远不及他对卜卦占星的处理。

He does introduce natal astrology in book three, but it's not as thorough as a treatment as his treatment of horary is.

人们非常喜爱利利作品的原因之一，是他使用了大量真实生活中的卜卦问题案例图表，来展示结果如何以及图表的解读方式。

And one of the reasons people really love Lilly's work is that he uses a bunch of example charts of real life horary questions to demonstrate how things worked out and what the interpretation of the chart was.

因此，在利利著作第122页的后面，他列出了判断前的各种考量，这些是判断卜卦图或解读卜卦图前应考虑的不同因素。

So later on page one twenty two of Lilly, he has different considerations before judgment, which are different horror considerations that you're supposed to take into account before judging a horary chart or before interpreting one.

他提到的其中一点是关于月亮的几种状况。

One of the ones that he says is he gives a few conditions of the Moon.

他提到的一点是：当月亮位于星座的后期度数时，尤其是双子座、天蝎座或摩羯座时，不宜进行判断。

One of the ones he says is he says, it's not safe to judge when the Moon is in the later degrees of a sign, especially in Gemini, Scorpio, or Capricorn.

然后他继续提到‘通火之路’。

And then he goes on, he mentions the Via Combusta.

接着他说，除非主要 significators 非常强大，否则当月亮处于空亡时，一切事务都难以顺利进行。

Then he says, all matter of matters go hardly on except the principal significators be very strong, except if they are very strong, when the Moon is void of course.

然而，如果月亮空亡但位于金牛座、巨蟹座、射手座或双鱼座，则仍会有些许作用。

Yet, somewhat she performs, if void of course, and be in either Taurus, Cancer, Sagittarius, or Pisces.

所以，他再次重申了月亮空亡的问题。

So basically, he reiterates the void of course thing.

他在解释中说，如果你得到一个月亮空亡的占时图，他指出所有事务都难以顺利进行，但他也给出了一个例外。

He says in interpretation that if you get a horary chart where the Moon is void of course, a horary question, he says all matters go all manner of matters go hardly on, but then he gives an exception.

他说，除非……

And he says, It unless is.

月亮位于其落座的星座——金牛座，或其 domicile 星座——巨蟹座，或木星守护的星座——射手座或双鱼座。

The Moon is in the sign of its exaltation, which is Taurus sign of its domicile, which is Cancer or in one of the signs ruled by Jupiter, which is Sagittarius or Pisces.

而这纯粹是因为木星是吉星。

And that's purely because Jupiter's lucky.