双子座在占星学中的含义与特质

对。

Right.

这让我想到另一个例子，我刚才正想着，就是爱德华·斯诺登，一个我常用来举例的超级双子座人物。他在2010年代初以承包商身份为美国国家安全局或中央情报局工作，后来发现了政府监控全球通信的项目，并将此事公之于众。

And this brings to mind another example I was just thinking of which is a super Gemini that I think of sometimes when I think of Gemini examples which is Edward Snowden who the He worked for the NSA or the CIA as a contractor in the early 2010s and he ended up finding out about this government program of surveilling the world basically in the world's communications and then disclosing it.

这在倾听与表达方面都挺有意思的。

So it's kind of interesting in terms of both listening and talking.

他的上升星座是双子座，水星、火星、北交点和太阳全部位于第一宫的双子座。

But he has Gemini rising with Mercury, Mars, the North Node and the Sun all in Gemini in the first whole sign house.

这种沟通与表达的理念，以及倾听者是谁的概念，还有水星常涉及的揭露与报道的含义，都很相关。

So that idea of communications and talking but also who's listening as well as the notion that sometimes comes up with Mercury about disclosures and about reporting.

水星有时扮演着揭露真相或传递信息的角色。

And Mercury sometimes plays that role of the one who discloses things or the one who reports things.

而在他的案例中，他最终——也必将永远——主要以举报者的身份为人所知。

And in his instance, became and will probably always become primarily known for or be primarily known for as a whistleblower essentially.

是的。

Yeah.

我刚想说，吹哨爆料的就是双子座的特质。

I was gonna say Gemini is what blows the whistle.

就好像在说，我有一条重要信息要传达。

Like, I have an important message.

没错。

Right.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

而且放在他身上确实也是如此，因为他星盘里的那些对冲相位，被他揭发的事情远不止表面那些，我是说，这些事情本身就很有深度。

And definitely in his case too, because of the oppositions he has there, There's not just certain things being whistleblown, I mean, the depth of it too.

而星盘里对冲的射手座配置也印证了这点，这绝非泛泛的表面闲聊，而是在挖掘更深刻的内核。

And the Sagittarius stuff there on the other side is just like it's not just making surface small talk, it's pushing something deeper.

我之所以这么说，也是基于我的一个推断：他做出这些举动，是根植于更深层的道德立场的。

And I'm saying that because I'm going to assume this, but him doing his actions are on a deeper ethical level.

所以在他的情况下，这是一种更深层的东西。

So in his case, it's a deeper thing.

你有没有真正听过他说话？

Have you ever actually heard him talk?

我确实听过一档他参加的播客。

I actually listened to a podcast where he's on.

顺便说一下，他根本停不下来。

He wouldn't stop talking, by the way.

他就是停不下来。

He wouldn't.

他有一种独特的语调，很特别，再结合他有一段时间无法发声、躲藏起来的事实，当他终于有机会开口时，你听他说的内容，他根本停不下来，你只是在等待这一刻，我无法判断这是他一贯的风格，还是他当时所处的环境造成的。

And he has this cadence, this funny cadence, and you take that in conjunct with the fact that he wasn't able to say something for a while and he's hiding out, and then when he gets his chance to say something, you listen to what he's saying, he wouldn't stop talking, you just was just going out, you're just waiting for this, and I couldn't tell if that's just him in general or the situation that he was in.

是的。

Yeah.

对，而且我喜欢你对射手座和双子座所做的区分：对于爱德华·斯诺登来说，他的沟通是出于目的，旨在重塑或揭露政府和更大的体系，这正是射手座原型的一部分。

Yeah, and I like the distinction you drew there between Sag and Gemini, where for Edward Snowden it was purpose driven communication and really kind of aimed to reshape or to expose governments and larger systems, which is a part of the Sagittarius archetype.

所以这不仅仅是为说而说，而是我有一个非常重要、甚至可能从根本上改变结构的信息要传达出来。

So it's not just talking just to talk, but I have something really important and probably structurally could change the structure, I should say, message to kind of get out there.

是的，你在这里面对的是多层次的真相——对他个人而言，什么是最高真相？对公众、对国家而言，什么又是真正的真相？

Yeah, you're dealing with many levels of truth here And with this what is the truth and the highest truth for him personally than what is the truth in general for the public, for the country.

而这些真相通过他以及那些文件或……

And that's coming through him along with files or the

信息泄露的方式呈现出来。

information dump.

为了给听音频版的听众做个说明，除了那个双子座群星之外，他还拥有木星、天王星、下降点、南交点和海王星全部位于第七宫的射手座。

And just to describe for those listening to the audio version what we're talking about, in addition to that Gemini stellium, he has Jupiter, Uranus, the Descendant, the South Node and Neptune all in Sagittarius in the seventh house.

这形成了与他双子座配置的对立，同时引入了强大的射手座能量——其中包含意识形态或信念层面的因素，再加上天王星与木星在三度内合相（木星在射手座3度，天王星在6度），与双子座的水星形成对冲；他打破规则、做了本不该做的事，某种程度上是一种反叛，为的是践行自己认为正确的道德或信念。

That's the opposition that's sort of formed with his Gemini placements and some of that strong Sagittarius energy that's being brought in where there's an ideological or belief based component to things and also sort of rebelliousness with Uranus there conjunct Jupiter within three degrees with Jupiter at three Sag and Uranus at six opposing that Mercury in Gemini and the fact that he sort of broke the rules or did something that he wasn't supposed to do and rebelled in some sense in order to do what he thought was right in terms of his morals or his beliefs.

我只想快速提一下。

I was just gonna bring up really quickly.

我注意到他的月亮在天蝎座，这与双子座是相斥的。

I saw his Moon was in Scorpio, which is like an aversion to Gemini.

所以，这种冲突就是：我该保守这个秘密，还是该把它曝光出来？

So like the the conflict of like, should I keep this secret or should I like expose it?

显然，双子座的能量外显了，而射手座也释放了，因为这是一个必须被说出的真相。

And obviously, the Gemini went out energetically and Sagittarius went out because it was a truth that needed to be told.

但对双子座隐瞒信息，或者让双子座目睹信息被隐瞒，我能理解这会让人极度沮丧，因为双子座重视的是开放的沟通。

But withholding information from a Gemini or a Gemini witnessing that information is being withheld, I can see how that can be deeply frustrating because it's all about open lines of communication.

对。

Right.

是的，如果这件事触及了你的道德准则，而你又具有水星特质，你能闭嘴多久呢？

Yeah, if it's touching your moral compass and you have this mercurial qualities, how long can you keep your mouth shut?

你忍不了。

You can't.

这引出了另一个问题：双子座是不是话太多？

And that's the other part of does Gemini talk too much?

有时候人们会有偏见，觉得双子座只是喋喋不休，缺乏深度，但显然，这要取决于具体个人和星盘，就像我们现在看的这个案例。

Sometimes there's a stigma, Gemini says, Oh, you're just yapping away and there's no depth, and so obviously it depends on the individual in the chart like we're looking at now.

在这种情况下，你提到了月亮，我觉得那里有更深的东西在发生，就像我无法直视他的眼睛，我必须开口，我必须做点什么。

In this case too, you're bringing up that Moon, and I think there's a deeper something going on there, and it's like, I can't hold his eye, I have to open, I have to do something.

如果深入探究这一点，他根本没在考虑自己。

So not really thinking of himself at all if go deeper into this.

这说明了一些问题。

So that says something.

不管你是否认同外面的这个人，这个人活得更加深刻，他不必说任何话。

Whether you agree or not with this person or not out there, this person's living in a deeper way, and he doesn't have to say anything.

有很多人掌握着某些权力的杠杆，可以按下任何按钮，但他们根本不在乎，回家后想干嘛就干嘛，对吧？

There's plenty of people who have their hands on the levers of certain powers and can press any button, and they don't care and just go home and do whatever, right?

但不知为什么，对他来说，当你提到月亮部分时，尤其是天蝎座月亮，这增添了一种特别的意味，就像我再也无法忍受了。

But for some reason with him, and I think when you brought up the Moon part there, the Scorpio Moon, there's something that just adds to flavor, like, I can't deal with this anymore.

我必须说点什么。

I have to say something.

我不只是说它会突然爆发，它真的会切断一切。

Not only am I saying it's gonna come cutting, cutting in.

所以，总之，那就是

So anyway, that's

而他揭露了这些，也就接受了更艰难的生活。

And exposing what he exposed, he accepted a more difficult life.

所以谈谈信念坚定，这是双子座能做到的事。

So talk about being convicted, which is something that Geminis can do.

是的。

Yeah.

好吧。

Alright.

那我们来看看还有什么。

So let's see what else.

之前提到过几件事，我想再回过头简单提一下。

There's a couple of things that were mentioned previously I want to circle back to just to mention passing.

一个是双子座月亮，这是我常常羡慕的配置之一，因为有时我会看到，拥有这个配置的人学习新语言特别有天赋，似乎对他们来说更自然、更容易，双子座的配置整体上都是如此。

One was Gemini Moon is one of the placements I'm often jealous of because I sometimes see a facility with learning new languages with that placement that it comes a little bit more naturally or a little bit more easily to them as well as just Gemini placements in general.

比如，迪米特里·乔治就有双子座月亮。

Dimitri George, for example, has a Gemini Moon.

罗伯特·施密特是《前景计划》的首席翻译，他也有双子座月亮，我总是对他能仅凭掌握语法和句法就自然而然地学会古代语言感到印象深刻。

Robert Schmidt who was the head translator of Project Hindsight had a Gemini Moon and I was always impressed by how innately or intuitively he seemed to be able to pick up ancient languages by just knowing the grammar and the syntax.

他说，一旦你掌握了语法，学习词汇之类的就很容易了，但你首先得弄懂语法。

He said once you get the grammar down, then it's pretty easy just to learn the vocabulary or what have you, but you just need to figure out the grammar first.

是的。

Yeah.

甚至我的朋友奥斯汀·科波克也有双子座月亮，他在占星学中创造隐喻和诗意明喻的方式非常突出。

Or even my friend Austin Coppock has a Gemini Moon and is pretty striking in the way that he comes up with metaphors and poetic similes and things like that in astrology.

对。

Yeah.

这简直是一种超能力。

That's a superpower.

我喜欢这个。

I like it.

我也有同样的感觉。

I see it too.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

你可以在播客里看到奥斯坦，比如有那么一个瞬间。

You could see Austin on the podcast, like, there's this moment.

他的表达节奏中有些特别的东西，你能看到整个思维过程在进行，是的。

So his pacing of communication, there's something going on, but you could see the the process happening Yeah.

当他组织语言时，那就是他的月亮在起作用。

It's when he's constructing his words, you know, his Moon.

你能看到，就像能捕捉到一样。

You see it, like you could catch it.

和他在一起很有趣。

It's interesting with him.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

然后回到之前提到的一个点，有一个被顺带提及但值得稍作探讨的想法，那就是双子座的适应性，有时他们就像变色龙一样，能够根据当下相处的人调整自己，某种程度上还会吸收对方的特质。

And then circling back to earlier as well, one thing that was mentioned in passing that's good maybe to dwell on just a little bit is that idea of adaptability of Gemini sometimes having this notion of almost being a chameleon in some sense because it's able to adapt to who they're with at the moment and sometimes take on those qualities in some way.

这种适应性既与水星有关，也与其作为变动星座的特性相连，我认为这是一个非常重要的总体性要素。

And that notion of adaptability which is both connected with Mercury as well as with it being a mutable sign, think is a very important overarching component as well.

是的。

Yeah.

而且就个人而言，我小时候的昵称是卡米尔，因为我的名字就是卡米尔。

And just like on a personal note, like my childhood nickname was Camille because my name is Camille.

我觉得从占星学上来说，我的配置确实让我像个变色龙。

I think it's so funny that astrologically I have the setup that would make me a chameleon.

但仔细想想，也许这层意思更深一些，双子座常常被关联到两面派和虚伪的特质。

But, yeah, in in thinking about that, and maybe this is a couple of layers deep, but there's a lot of associations of duplicitousness and two faced ness with the Gemini.

当你具体谈到你在不同群体面前的样子、你需要成为的样子、你在那边如何伪装，以及在那边如何变成略有不同的自己时，这并不一定意味着两面派或欺骗，而是双子座有能力根据每个群体的需要调整自己。

And when you're talking specifically about who you are to this group of people, who you need to be, how you're camouflaging over there, and maybe how you're turning into this group of people being a little bit different over there, That doesn't necessarily have to point towards two facedness or being deceptive, rather that the Gemini has the ability to morph into who they need to be for each groups.

而且在两个地方，这种表现都是真实的。

And it's an authentic expression, both places.

对吧？

Right?

但双子座确实能同时持有多种身份，每个身份都是真实的，对吧？

But, yeah, the Gemini ability to kind of hold multi identities at once, multiple identities at once, and they're each authentic, right?

它们不是假的。

They're not fake.

是的。

Yeah.

在希腊神话中，赫尔墨斯之所以如此，是因为卡米勒米歇尔格雷的原因。

In Greek myth with Hermes, there's the reason of CamilleMichelleGray.

改变形态是有原因的，因为在希腊神话中，赫尔墨斯常通过化身人类来改变局势。

There's a reason for changing into something because Hermes used to do that through humans to alter situations in Greek myth.

这些内容很有趣，因为赫尔墨斯会化身为路上的老人来改变局势。

A lot of this stuff is interesting because Hermes would embody an old man on the road to alter a situation.

这是力量的一部分。

This is part of the power.

另一部分则在于旅途中的过渡阶段，当我们谈论变色龙般的特质和持续转变时，这在某种意义上是一种炼金术——事物总在变化，而赫尔墨斯的天赋或另一种力量，就在于随机应变，在无中生有，在情境中即兴创造，这股力量能穿透一切，随时唤出魔法，而这一切始终都有其深意。

The other part of it is in the in between journey, when we're talking about the chameleon part and the constant transforming, it's alchemy in a sense, and things are always changing and that was the gift or another power as you want to call it of Hermes of doing things on the fly and coming out with something in the middle of nothing or in a situation, again, like on a whim, but that was the power is to cut through all that and bring up that magic on the fly, and there was always a reason for it.

你可以从炼金术的角度来看待它，因为它始终在变化和转化。

Alchemical is one way you can look at it because it's constantly changing and morphing.

变化与转化，真正想想看，转变的过程有时就像蜕皮一样。

And changing and morphing, really think about a transformative progress sometimes is like shedding our skin.

当我们这样做时，会变得脆弱。

We're vulnerable when we do that.

同时，我们正在走向纯粹，从而变得更强大。

At the same time, we're getting down to a purity, then we're becoming stronger.

这是一个过程。

Now that's a process.

这可能是一个长期的过程，但对于双子座来说，它发生在瞬间，一次性完成，他们持续地驾驭着这种氛围，或者他们可以。

That could be a long term process, but for the Gemini it happens in the moment, all in one moment, instantaneously, and they're riding that vibe constantly or they can.

所以，再深入一层，问题是：他们真正是为了什么而这样做？

So again, on a deeper level after that, it's like, well, what are they really doing it for?

施展他们的力量。

Wheeling their power.

但无论如何，让我们回到变色龙部分和即兴转变的部分。

But anyway, to go back to the chameleon part and the transformative part on the fly.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我喜欢你之前用的那个词，因为我觉得，尽管它带有负面含义，但它也触及了某个非常重要的方面，即这个词本身的含义——双重性或虚伪。

And I like that word that you used earlier because I thought that even though it has negative connotations, it also gets into something really important just in terms of the meaning of that word, but duplicity or duplicitousness.

我只是看了下这个词的定义，梅里亚姆-韦伯斯特词典说：思想、言语或行为中的矛盾双重性，尤其指通过欺骗性的言辞或行为掩盖真实意图；或者指双重性或两重状态，这正是‘两面派’这一概念的来源——说一套做另一套，或者反之。

And I was just looking at the definition of that and it says, Merriman Webster says, Contradictory doubleness of thought, speech or action, especially the belying of one's true intentions by deceptive words or actions or two, the quality or state of being double or twofold, which is where you get to that notion of like two facedness to say one thing but then to do another thing or vice versa.

但这种观念，我想，可能是第一个迹象。

But this notion of I guess this is the first sign.

我们有白羊座，这是第一个星座，然后是金牛座，接着是双子座，而双子座正是双胞胎的象征。

We had Aries which is the first sign, we had Taurus and then we had Gemini and Gemini is the sign of the twins.

所有变动星座都带有双重性、双体性或拥有两样东西的意味。

And all of the mutable signs have these notions of doubleness or being double bodied or having two of something.

但双子座最能体现这种双重性的概念，这种双重性以各种方式表现出来。

But Gemini is probably the one that gets that the most of this notion of there being two sides to it and and that that manifests in different ways.

而很多这种特质其实也源于双子座的象征意义，即它代表双胞胎。

And then a lot of that actually also may just come from the symbolism of Gemini, the fact that it means the twins.

也就是说，两个独立的个体，或者一个人分裂成两个实体。

So, like, two separate entities or one person that splits off into two entities.

是的。

Yep.

所以这种双体的特性并不仅仅存在于所有可变星座中，但我同意双子座因此受到最多的指责。

So that double bodied nature really isn't all the mutable signs, but I agree that Gemini gets the most flack for it.

我同意。

I agree.

我同意。

I agree.

实际上，萨姆·雷诺兹，我们总是讨论这个。

Actually, Sam Reynolds, we always talk about this.

受到最多指责的两个星座是天蝎座和双子座。

The two signs that get the most flack are Scorpios and Gemini.

只是被污名化了。

Just get a bad rap.

每个人都有自己的故事，你知道的。

Everybody's got a story, you know?

双子座，他们就是特别容易被这样看待。

Geminis, they just get it.

回到我们刚才讨论的内容，有时候情况需要被改变。

To go back to what we're talking about, sometimes situations need to be altered.

需要有人被欺骗。

Someone needs to be tricked.

给在座的双子座朋友们，我要小心地说下面的话，因为听完我说的这些后，你们别故意去做那些事。

For you Geminis out there, I just want to be careful with what I'm about to say here because it's like, don't do things on purpose after what I'm going say here.

明白吗？

Okay?

当你拥有改变和操控局势的能力和天赋时，你这么做是为了什么？

It's like sometimes if you have the ability and the gift to change and manipulate a situation, what are you doing for?

你是为了做好事吗？

Are you doing for the good?

赫尔墨斯过去就是故意这样做的，他欺骗那些在人类层面上看似正常的情况，就在那一刻，神性通过了，太阳通过水星将能量传递给太阳系中的其他行星，神性在那一刻以某种深层而纯粹的原因显现出来。

That's what Hermes used to do on purpose, to trick a situation that was normal on a human level, and in that moment the divine comes through, the Sun comes through Mercury to the rest of the planets in the Solar System, the divine comes through in that moment for the certain reasons, and the deep, deep, pure reasons.

如果你是双子座，并且知道你有能力做到这些，你就能理解为什么这种能力会被滥用，因此双子座才背负了坏名声。所以，再次强调，你必须尊重神性，尊重这份力量，也要尊重那些突如其来、如变色龙般的时刻。

Now if you're a Gemini and you know you can do this, you could see how one can misuse their power, hence why Geminis would get a bad rap, So again, you have to honor the Divine, honor the power, and honor the chameleon like moments that come through out of nowhere.

我之前在这期播客中说过，我想再重申一次，我不希望双子座再被误解。

I said this earlier in this podcast, I want to reiterate it because I don't want Geminis to have a bad rap anymore.

对，让我们把话说清楚。

Yeah, let's clear the air.

需要被巧妙地引导。

Needs to be tricked.

给在场的双子座朋友们，我要小心地说下面的话，因为听完之后，别故意去这么做。

For you Geminis out there, just wanna be careful with what I'm about to say here because it's like don't do things on purpose after what I'm gonna say here.

明白吗？

Okay?

有时候，如果你有能力且有天赋去改变和操控局面，那你这么做是为了什么？

It's like sometimes if you have the ability and a gift to change and manipulate a situation, what are you doing for?

你是为善而做吗？

Are you doing it for the good?

赫尔墨斯过去就是故意这样做的，他巧妙地改变那些在人类层面上看似平常的局面，在那一刻，神性通过水星、透过太阳传递到太阳系的其他行星，神性在那一刻以某种特定的、深刻而纯粹的原因显现出来。

That's what Hermes used to do on purpose, to trick a situation that was normal on a human level, and in that moment, the divine comes through, the Sun comes through Mercury to the rest of the planets in the Solar System, the divine comes through in that moment for the certain reasons, and the deep, deep, pure reasons.

现在你是双子座，你知道自己能做到这一点，你能看到人们如何滥用这种力量，这就是为什么双子座会背负坏名声，对吧？

Now, you're a Gemini and you know you can do this, you could see how one can misuse their power, hence why Geminis would get a bad rap, right?

所以，你必须尊重神圣，尊重这种力量，尊重那些突如其来、如变色龙般的时刻。

So again, you have to honor the Divine, honor the power, and honor the chameleon like moments that come through out of nowhere.

我之前在这档播客里说过，我想再强调一次，因为我再也不想让双子座背负坏名声了。

I said this earlier in this podcast, I wanna reiterate it because I don't want Gemini to have a bad rap anymore.

是的。

Yeah.

我们现在就来把话说清楚。

Let's clear the air right here right now.

对。

Yeah.

但我理解他们为什么会这么做。

But I get why they do.

我的意思是

I mean

我的意思是，我们会全面覆盖整个范围和整个光谱。

I mean, we're we're gonna cover the full range and the full spectrum.

对于每个星座，我们都会探讨其积极和消极的方面，以及中间的所有内容，尽可能全面地分析。

Mean, with every sign, we're going to cover the good sides and the bad sides and everything in between to whatever extent we can.

别太担心我会给任何星座贴上负面标签，因为那样做会让人反感，这违背了占星学的本意。

Don't worry too much about I want to stigmatize any sign either for sure because that's annoying astrology.

但去思考每个星座的全部表现范围是有益的，因为每个星座的积极表现往往都对应着一个镜像般的消极表现。

But it is good to think of what's the full range of manifestations and that every positive manifestation of a sign can also have a mirroring negative manifestation.

一旦你识别出这两面，我认为这会帮你更清晰地理解背后或 overarching 的原型。

And then once you identify both sides, I think that gives you a much clearer picture of what the underlying or the overarching archetype is.

是的。

Yeah.

那么，谈谈这种千变万化到底意味着什么？

So talking about what is the meaning of all this shape shifting?

在双子座的世界里，确实存在毫无意义的变幻，那就是八卦。

Meaningless shape shifting, does exist in the Gemini world is gossip.

这就像用一些有争议、刺激、能挑动情绪的词来填充空间，但归根结底，它在某种程度上起到了负面作用，或者本质上完全是无用的。

And it's just like filling up space with words that are controversial and spicy and can rile people up, but at the end of the day, serves a negative purpose in some ways or like a completely useless purpose in essence.

当然。

Sure.

我的意思是，双子座有一种顽皮和嬉戏的特质。

Well, I mean, it's almost like there's So there's a mischievousness and a playful quality to Gemini.

所以，嬉戏、顽皮，我们在一些狡诈的神话中也能看到这些特质。

So playfulness, mischievousness, and we get some of that in some of the trickery myths.

尼古拉斯，希腊神话中哪个是关于狡诈的传说？

What's one of the trickery myths, Nicholas, from Greek mythology?

是的，有几个，但昨晚我读到过什么来着？

Yeah, there's a couple, but what was I reading something about last night?

首先，希腊神话简直太残酷了。

First of all, Greek myths are just brutal.

没错。

Sure, right.

赫尔墨斯正在准备，宙斯派赫尔墨斯去帮助珀耳塞福涅在某些时刻从冥界出来。

Hermes was getting set up, Zeus is sending Hermes up to help Persephone get out of the underworld at certain points.

赫卡忒也做过类似的事，所以这里面有一种狡黠，还有那些让守卫沉睡以便让人偷偷通过的故事。

Hecate did that too, So there's a trickiness there, and the stories of putting guards to sleep so people could sneak through.

这种狡黠用于推动局势发展。

There's that kind of trickiness to move a situation.

另一部分则与奥德修斯有关。

The other part of it is Odysseus.

赫尔墨斯在奥德修斯与喀耳刻在一起之后去拜访了他，对吧？

Hermes goes to visit Odysseus after Odysseus is hanging with Circe, right?

然后他说：‘嘿，你得这么做，我会帮你离开这里，完成你的使命。’

And there's this thing of like, Hey, you need to do this, I'm going to help you get out of here to finish the quest.

于是他出现了，但也有许多关于赫尔墨斯做些恶劣事情的故事，这些事连众神都经历过。

And so he comes through, but there's plenty of stories of Hermes doing some messed up stuff that the gods have passed through.

所以为了让我们理解希腊神话，它并不是全都轻松愉快的，而是非常残酷的。

So just so we understand Greek myth, it's not all happy go lucky, it's hardcore.

但当你阅读颂歌或故事时，仍然能发现一个共同的主题：这种转变过程发生得非常迅速，故事情节会迅速改变。

But still, the common thread you see when you read the hymns or the stories is this transformative process that happens really fast, an altering of a storyline really fast.

实际上，这种转变的呈现方式非常微妙。

And it's very subtle actually how it comes across.

它可能只是一些简单的事情，比如化身成另一个人，把某样东西移开。

It's a simple thing like embodying another human, moving something out of the way.

根据我读过的资料，大多数情况下都是这样运作的，所以我记不清你具体问我什么了，克里斯。

It works that way most of the time from the things I've been reading, so I can't remember what you asked me exactly, Chris.

是的，我刚刚在想一些关于狡黠的事情。

Yeah, I was just thinking of some of the mischievous.

狡黠似乎在赫尔墨斯的神话中经常出现，这种狡黠也带着双子座那种青春的气息。

Mischievousness seemed like it's something that comes up a lot in the myths of Hermes and that mischievous but also like a youthful quality to Gemini.

我觉得双子座有时也会被关联到一种青春的特质，不是那种超越年龄的成熟，而是相反的那种状态。

I think Geminis sometimes get associated with a youthful quality as well even youthful not beyond their years, whatever the inverse of that statement is.

对。

Yeah.

这部分也与偷窃的特质有关，因为他是盗贼的主宰。

Part of that too I think has to do with the thieving quality of things because it's the master of thieves.

盗贼在路上的行为是：事情会主动找上门，比如某种情境出现，或者路上有什么东西，这东西是你的吗？

And what thieves do on the road, as in things come to them, like there's a situation that comes to you or there's something on the road, is it yours or not?

这不重要，它自己找上了我，我走过去，遇见了它，然后我就把它拿走了。

Doesn't matter, it came to me, I walked to it, I met up with it, and then I'm going to take it.

所以这里有一种顽皮的特质，以及它被用于什么目的。

So there's mischievousness there, and then what it's used for.

再说一遍，我认为如果我们现在谈论的是现代时代，我只是在看神话，关键在于背后的意图是什么？

Again, I think it always goes back if we're talking right now modern times, I'm just looking at myth, it's like what's the intention behind it?

是为了推动更长远的故事，让情节朝某个方向发展，还是出于完全自私的理由？

Is it for the longer story to help alter a story to go a certain way, or is it for completely selfish reasons?

你是否遇到过一位有荣誉感的盗贼，他这么做不只是为了自己，也是为了他人，还是纯粹出于自私？

Do you have an honorable thief who's doing it not just for himself but for others, or is it just completely selfish?

但我觉得关于顽皮这一点，从某种角度来看，很大程度上就源于这种偷窃的特质。

But I think as for the mischievousness, that's where a lot of that comes from, from one way to look at it, is the thieving quality.

这是一种正在迸发的氛围和能量。

That it's this vibe and energy that's kind of popping.

这种迸发来自于心理上享受在调整和玩弄情境与人时的乐趣，老实说。

It's popping mentally of having fun in the tweaking and messing with the situation and a person, honestly.

而关于动机为何，这种平衡再次出现了。

And there's that balance again about the intention to why.

这让我想到了恶作剧。

It makes me think of pranks.

恶作剧有点像双子座的特质，或者还有其他类似的事情，有时只是做点什么纯粹为了看看会发生什么，而且确实，就像这样一种品质或本质。

Pranking is kind of a Gemini type thing or what are some other things like that that are sometimes just doing something for the sake just to see what happens and yeah, so like a quality or an essence like that.

是的，比如突然间，不知道为什么，开个玩笑，或者说些有争议的话，只是为了看看人们会有什么反应，这样我可以找乐子。

Yeah, like being spontaneously, don't know, jokey or to say something controversial just to be like, how are people going to react so I can have fun.

这是件好事。

That's a good thing.

还有机智，有时可以调侃某事，或者表现出一种顽皮的特质。

Like a wittiness also which can sometimes poke fun at something or playfulness.

我们之前的一些节目中曾讨论过，有人说过白羊座很有趣。

We were having a debate in some of the previous episodes about somebody said Aries was funny.

双子座是一个相当有趣或可能很幽默的星座，因为它非常机智，擅长言辞。

Gemini is a pretty funny sign or can be funny because it's very witty and it has that way with words.

我们举过一些例子，比如奥巴马是个出色的演说家，安东尼·波登富有诗意。

We've done examples of that of Obama being a good orator or Anthony Bourdain being poetic.

但另一方面，仅仅是聪明机智。

But another side of that is just being clever.

机智是双子座的一个良好特质。

Cleverness is good Gemini quality.

是的，这是它的另一面。

And yeah, that's another side of that.

比如单口喜剧演员。

Like a standup comedian, for example.

是的，完全没错。

Yeah, totally.

听着，我承认，在人群里我有时候忍不住要逗别人玩。

Listen, I admit and I'm in crowds of people, I can't help but to F with people sometimes.

你知道，这有时候确实是一种行为，真正的动机可能有点自私，比如停滞不前，或者再次说，它是在改变时间线，改变故事。

You know, it's a thing and if the real reason sometimes is like this could be selfish, but stagnation or so again, it's altering a timeline, it's altering a story.

所以当我表现得机智时，我会指出一些事情，比如：嘿，我听说了什么？

So if I'm being clever, I'm pointing some out, I'm like, Hey, you know, what's this I hear?

然后有人低下头，我打中他们的鼻子，他们就会说：哦，但这一切都变了。

And someone looks down, I hit them in the nose, they're like, Oh, but it just changed everything.

我们只是走出了常态，暂时脱离了它，超越了它。

We just stepped out of what was normal, and we stepped away, we transcended for the moment.

我认为双子座有时忍不住会这么做，不只是为了搞笑，老实说，为了用幽默和机智打破僵局，你可以说在那种情境下，但同样，我再次用‘媒介’这个词。

And I think a Gemini can't help but do that at times, not just for the laughs of it, to be honest, to laugh about it and the cleverness to break the ice, you could say in the situation, but also too, again, I use the word cipher.

这就像有一种通道，某种力量通过你显现，让你变得幽默、机智，稍微撩拨一下别人，或搅动一下现场，因为有别的东西在通过你促使你这么做，它能彻底改变整个故事。

It's like there's a conduit and somebody's coming through you and you're going be humorous and clever and kind of pull at somebody or mess with the room a little bit because there's something else coming through you to do it, and it can completely alter the story.

它能改变一种局面。

It can alter a situation.

再说一遍，你是在以一个了解这一切、一生都在这么做、并为这种自私付出过代价的人的身份来写作，关键在于选择何时行动。

Again, you're writing as someone who knows this and who's done it my whole life and has paid the price for being selfish with it, moments it's picking when to do it.

所以如果房间里发生了争执，人们彼此纠缠，比如出现流言蜚语之类的情况，双子座可以介入，用一个笑话或某种方式把大家从他们所处的封闭状态中拉出来，戳破那个泡泡。

So if there's an argument in the room and people are tripping on each other and so on and so forth, let's say it's a situation of gossip or whatever, could come in and Gemini could come in and change it with a joke or a thing or to pull everybody out of that bubble that they're in and pop it.

我自己就做过这种事，也见过别人在公开场合这么做，结果整个房间的气氛瞬间转变，那种原本可能持续的尖锐互动或流言蜚语就消失了。

And I've done this myself, I've seen it publicly, then everything switches in the room and then there isn't, let's say, this caustic activity that could have been going on or the gossip, so on and so forth.

现在，我举这些例子是为了说明积极的一面，为了好的目的。

Now, I'm giving you examples of things for the good, for the good of things.

但另一方面，我介入进来，用聪明的方式跟你互动，而你甚至没意识到——我已经顺走了你的钱包。

Now, there's the other part of it is, I'm coming in and I'm being clever with you and I'm talking with you, but you don't even know it, I just stole your wallet.

扒手。

Pickpocket.

当然。

Sure.

你知道的，我和你玩得开心，互相调侃，你脸都红了，我却接着说：对了，你今天看起来真棒。

You know, and I had fun with you, I cracked each other, and yow you blush and I chime like, you look great today, by the way.

我的意思是，你光彩照人，看看你身上的颜色。

I mean, you're shining, look at that color on you.

顺便说一下，卡米耶，你那个房间，你整体的配色风格，比克里斯和我都要突出得多，你就在那儿，美得惊人。

By the way, Camille, like that room, that whole thing you got going on with the colors there, it is you are popping way better than Chris and I are, and you're just right there, incredibly beautiful.

所以这很好

So it's a good

这某种程度上是一种分散注意力的特质，而这种双重性就在于：表面上说一件事，实际上却在另一端做别的事，这可以成为双子座的优势，但正如你所说，也可能被用于好事或坏事，甚至在某种程度上带有一种道德上的模糊性。

it's sort of a distractive quality, and that's the double sidedness is like doing saying one thing, but then doing something else on the other end and that can be used as a benefit and to the advantage of the Gemini, but then it can be used as you're saying for good or for bad or There's what have also almost like a morally, sometimes morally ambiguous quality to some extent as well.

这一点可能也相关，当我们谈到双子座时，会遇到一些关于气质和特质的争议，因为传统中对此存在不同看法。

This might be relevant also at this point which is in the We run into some issues with the temperaments and the qualities once we get to Gemini because there's some debate in the tradition about it.

但在早期的斯多葛模型中，风象星座被认为是冷的，这与火象星座的热性相反。

But in the earlier stoic model, the air signs are supposed to be cold which is opposite to the fire signs which are hot.

我觉得风象星座有时确实带有一种冷淡的特质，可能显得无动于衷或缺乏情感，更偏向于理性分析的思维方式——能从智力层面看待事物，但情感成分较少，而情感更多是水象星座的特征。

And I feel like with the air signs, air signs can sometimes have a cold quality to them that can be dispassionate or lacking in emotion and can be more of like an analytical thinking quality that can look at things intellectually but not have as much of an emotional component which would be more of a water thing.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

我只是想快速回一下，因为尼克说了一件非常有趣的事：当双子座感觉到能量停滞时，它会想要推动它们改变。

I just wanted to quickly circle back because Nick said something that was so interesting, is when Gemini senses that the energies are stagnant, it wants to move them.

这让我想起双子座在无聊时会做出的各种调皮行为，尤其是当它们没有找到合适的方式去释放那股多变的能量时。

And that just reminds me of all the antics that Gemini can get up to when it's bored, when it does not have a productive use for all of that mutable energy.

但确实，双子座有时会在面对极其敏感的问题时表现出不敬，比如在所有人都在哭泣时却开个玩笑，这显然不是时候。

But yeah, the way that Gemini can be of irreverent in the face of issues that are deeply sensitive or that feeling of cracking a joke when everyone's crying and it's like, not really the right time.

但同样地，过度依赖逻辑思考，可能会牺牲直觉、同情心，或与他人在更真诚、情感层面的连接。

But yeah, living in that space of logic so that at the expense of leaning a little bit more into intuition or compassion or connectivity with other people on a more heart to heart level.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我还想补充一点，关于这种冷峻和理性的一面，我认为即使对双子座自己来说，也可能非常残酷，具体取决于他们在星盘中的其他配置。

I will say too to that coldness and logic part of things, it can be brutal I think even for a Gemini internally depending who they are on the rest of the chart.

比如说，如果他们的星盘里完全没有水象星座的成分，就很难与情境或他人建立联系——不仅对方感觉不到连接，双子座自己内心也可能感到孤独和疏离。

Let's say if they don't have any water in their chart or something like that, not connecting with situations or people, not only can the person on the other side of them not feel connected, but in their own world, Gemini's world, can feel just alone and disconnected.

你可以从很多不同的角度来看这个问题，但你可以认为赫尔墨斯和他母亲的关系并不好，因为他的母亲实际上是被迫生下他的，对吧？

And you can look at this at many different ways, but you can look at it as in Hermes didn't have a good connection with his mom because she basically was forced to have Hermes, right?

这其中还有一层更深的含义，就是缺乏与母亲的深层联结，母亲也没有真正觉得这是自己的孩子。

There's a deeper part of this and not having this deeper connection to the mother and the mother not really feeling like this was their child.

从希腊神话的角度来看，你可以看到这种冷漠，因为赫尔墨斯——抱歉，是赫尔墨斯——并没有与女性特质达成和解。

In one way in Greek myth, you could see how the coldness because the Gemini or excuse me, Hermes didn't have anything resolved with the feminine part.

那里有一部分，有时就是缺失的，因为逻辑的缘故，它无法建立联结。

There's a part there that sometimes is not there, it doesn't connect because of the logic.

我不确定这是否对你们中的某些人有道理，但对一些人来说，我认为理解双子座总是很重要的，这时我们又回到了倾听——要摆脱逻辑和冷漠，我认为倾听自己的内心很重要。

And I don't know if this is making sense to some of you all, but for some, I think Gemini is always important to look, and this is when we come back to listening, to get away from the logic and the coldness, I think listening to one's own self.

我提起这一点是有原因的。

There was a very I'm bringing this up.

琳达·古德曼的《太阳星座》一书，我们很多人都读过，书中有一句关于双子座的著名话，这句话出现在《爱情星座》或《太阳星座》里，但最终都与双子座有关。

Linda Goodman's Sun Signs book, many of us, many of us have read has a famous line in there about Gemini, it's within the Love Signs book or the Sun Signs book, but it has to do with Gemini in the end.

她写得非常有才华，但最后她写道：双子座能否达到倾听自己心跳的境界？

The way she writes it, she was so talented how she wrote, but in the end it's like, Can the Gemini get to a point of listening to its own heartbeat?

当你达到脱离外界、倾听自己心跳的境界时，你就摆脱了逻辑，进入了情感层面。

And you get to that point of getting out of here and listening to your own heartbeat, then you're getting off the logic and you're getting into the emotional part.

这对于所有正在聆听和观看、并对此有困扰的双子座来说，都是存在的。

And it's there for any Gemini listening and watching who has challenges with this.

关键在于倾听自己的心跳，屏蔽所有外部的、你无法抗拒地被吸引并不断想要连接的事物。

It is getting to listening to your own heartbeat and shutting out everything else that's external that you cannot help but gravitate towards to and wanting to connect with constantly.

这是回归自我，倾听这种内在声音的过程。

It's getting back to self and to listening to this.

有趣的是，克里斯提到每个后续星座都在修正前一个星座的问题，这正是巨蟹座所要修正的。

And curiously, what Chris was talking about how each sign that comes after corrects something, that's the correction that Cancer then has.

这种觉知逐渐下沉到内心。

It's like that awareness traveling down to the heart.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

卡米勒，这太好了。

Camille, that's so good.

是的。

Yes.

这正是它的本质。

It's exactly what it is.

它引入了情感成分，而它是黄道十二宫序列中第一个水象星座，这个序列从白羊座开始——我本打算展示一张图表，就是我和保罗·贝洛米诺几年前制作的那张墙贴，它展示了从春分后第一个星座白羊座开始的黄道十二宫。

Brings in the emotional component and it's the first water sign in the sequence of the first signs of the zodiac starting with Aries, which I meant to actually show a diagram just of the This is our poster that Paulo Bellomino and I made a few years ago, which is like a wall poster, but it just shows the signs of the zodiac starting with Aries, is the first sign after the spring equinox.

是的，春分之后是金牛座，然后是双子座，而巨蟹座紧随其后，这一点非常好。

Yeah, spring equinox then Taurus then Gemini and then that's a really good point Cancer comes after.

因此，你所看到的修正特质——在前三个星座中缺失，而在双子座中尤为缺失——就是这种情感联结，它不只是在智力层面，或通过语言在沟通层面建立联系（双子座非常擅长这些），而是巨蟹座通过情感和感受来建立联结。

And so part of the corrective quality that you see that's missing from the first three signs but perhaps is the most missing from Gemini is that emotional component that connects things not just on an intellectual level, which is what Gemini is really good at or a communicative level through words, but Cancer connects things through emotions and through through feelings.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

你无法靠逻辑在困难的情况下脱身。

You can't out logic your way through like difficult situations.

你会撞上一堵墙，而双子座无法撞破这堵墙。

Like you will hit a wall and Gemini can't hit that wall.

对。

Right.

你提到过尼古拉斯·林达·古德曼，她是一个很好的例子，因为她是一位杰出的作家，而且她的命盘中上升点的守护星位于双子座——她是白羊座太阳、金星，上升也是白羊座，而上升点的守护星火星正好落在双子座的第三整宫。

So you mentioned Nicholas Linda Goodman who's a really good example to mention because she was such an amazing writer and she's a really good example of somebody that had their chart ruler, the ruler of their Ascendant in Gemini because she was an Aries Sun in Venus with Aries rising and the ruler of her Ascendant Mars was actually in Gemini in the third whole sign house.

我总是拿她当例子，因为在1968到1969年，她写了那本《太阳星座》，对吧？

And I always use her as an example because in nineteen sixty eight, sixty nine, she wrote that book Sun Signs, right?

那本书就叫这个名字。

That's what it was called.

它成为了现代乃至可能有史以来最畅销的占星书籍，虽然托勒密或许给她带来了一点竞争。

And that became I think the most highest selling astrology book certainly in modern times possibly in all times, although Ptolemy probably gave her like a little bit of competition.

但至少在现代，根据已追踪的图书销量，它卖出了数百万册。

But at least in modern times and as far as tracked book sales, it sold just millions and millions of copies.

我认为它如此受欢迎的原因之一是，她有一种独特的表达方式，能够出色地阐释各个星座背后的一些深层含义。

And one of the reasons I think it was so popular is just she had a way with words and a way of describing some of the underlying meanings of the signs that was really impressive.

是的。

Yeah.

如果我从星盘上看得没错的话，火星和金星呈六分相。

And if I saw from the chart correctly, Mars and Venus were sextiling each other.

我得再仔细看看。

I have to look at that.

是的。

Yeah.

这里有点有趣，我们之前讨论过几个火星位于双子座的星盘，现在我们身边就有一位火星在双子座的人，而且今年下半年这一点尤为重要。

Interesting here, we've had a couple charts here that have Mars in Gemini, and then we have someone with us who has Mars in Gemini, and very important here this year with the second half of the year.

对。

Yes.

这正是即将发生的事情。

It's what's gonna happen.

克里斯，你很快地提到了这个星盘。

Chris, you brought this chart up really quick.

这位人士在星象学上影响了多代人，并用通俗的语言让占星学变得更容易理解。

This is someone here who influenced multi generations astrologically and put things in a plain language for people to make astrology accessible.

不管你喜不喜欢她的措辞，或者有些人认为这是通俗文化，这都不重要。

Whether you like or not the words or some people consider it pop, it doesn't matter.

不过我觉得她的火星和金星很有趣，因为这在她的写作中是一个永恒的主题。

I just found it interesting though her Mars and Venus because that was a constant theme in her writing.

即使她写的是某个单独的星座，也总是将爱与彼此之间的关系融入其中。

Even if she was writing about an individual sign, it was always this kind of merging of always bringing in love in relation to each other.

我不太确定。

And I I don't know.

我只是看到她的火星和金星在星盘中的互动方式，而琳达就拥有这种特质。

I just see her Mars and Venus the way they're relating in a chart, and Linda had it.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢你说她用平实的语言写作，我觉得这正是双子座和水星的绝佳特质。

I love how you said she wrote in plain language, which I think is such a great quality of of Gemini and Mercury and Gemini.

然后你可以想想相反的情况，比如水星和射手座，它们倾向于说教、过度哲思、变得非常诗意，诸如此类，这些也有其价值。

And then you can think about the opposite, maybe Mercury and Sag, and how there's a propensity to, like, pontificate or to, like, over philosophize and to, like, get really lyric y and, like, you know, all of that, which is has its place.

但双子座作为教师的方式确实有其独特之处——它能非常高效、直截了当地传达信息。

But there is something to be said for the way that Gemini can be the teacher in such that it communicates things very effectively and straight to the point.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，深入探讨射手座和双子座这一对轴线及其相互作用会很有意义，因为通过与射手座的对比，能更清晰地揭示双子座的含义。

So that may be a good thing to dwell on the Sag Gemini axis and the interplay between those two, the rulers of those two signs because it really can help to instruct you much more clearly on the meaning of Gemini by contrasting it with Sagittarius and its opposite.

等我们做完这个，提醒我回头继续讲三合组，把双子座和天秤座、水瓶座对比一下，我之前刚开始讨论风象星座与火象星座的冷热差异时，就提到过这个。

And then once we do that, remind me to go back to I want to go into the triplicities and contrasting Gemini with Libra and Aquarius, which is something I was starting to go into with the air signs as being cold in the contrast with fire signs.

如果我忘了，记得提醒我。

If I don't remember, remind me of that.

好的。

All right.

当我们研究双子座时，双子座由水星守护，与由木星守护的射手座相对。

So when we're looking at Gemini, Gemini is ruled by Mercury and it's opposite to the sign Sagittarius which is ruled by Jupiter.

这其中一个主要的对比是，太阳系中最小的行星水星守护双子座，而最大的行星木星则守护射手座。

And one of the major contrasts there is you get the smallest planet in the solar system which is Mercury ruling Gemini opposite to the largest planet in the solar system which is Jupiter.

一个反复出现的根本对比是，双子座代表细微的事物，而射手座代表宏大的事物。

And one of the major underlying contrast that just comes up over and over again is that Gemini represents small things and Sagittarius represents big things.

当你思考一下什么是小事物、什么是大事物这一基本对比时，就能更深入地理解这两个星座之间的轴线或对立关系。

And when you just take that basic contrast of what are some small things and what are some big things, you can really get a lot out of understanding that axis or that polarity between those two signs.

是的。

Yeah.

我最喜欢的一个类比或形象化方式是：双子座就像新闻编辑部，而射手座则是撰写社论的人，双子座的角色是每天传递事实。

One of my favorite kind of analogies or ways to picture it is Gemini is the newsroom and Sagittarius are the people that write editorials where Gemini is like, I'm here to communicate the facts on an everyday basis.

而射手座的社论作者则会说：但这一切意味着什么？

And then the editorial sag folks are like, but what does it all mean?

我们如何把这些事实或正在发生的事情串联成一个关于我们时代真理的更高层次的概念？

How can we string these facts or what's happening into some larger, higher concept about the truth of our times?

因此，这种大与小的对比也象征性地体现了所表达内容的必然性。

And so that bigness versus smallness also coming in symbolically to represent what is being said necessarily.

是的，基本的简单区别就是事实和观点。

Yeah, the basic simple thing of fact and then opinion too.

没错。

That's right.

你以简单的方式表达，确实各有其作用。

The way you say it in a simple way and yeah, all have its purpose.

还有事实与信念的区别，

Also fact versus belief,

这被很多人

which a lot

当作事实。

of people

认为是事实。

think are facts.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yep.

对。

Right.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

在双子座中，可能更倾向于冷静地传递信息，而在射手座中，则更注重信念、道德和原则，并将其置于首位，而双子座则更强调信息的传递本身。

And there can be a sort of in Gemini dispassionate just communicating things versus Sagittarius, there can be a focus on believing in things and what you believe in and your morals and principles being centered and put at the forefront as opposed to Gemini where just communicating things is put more to the forefront.

我不确定这样说是否清楚，但这是我有时会注意到的一种对比。

I'm not sure if that makes sense, but that's one of the contrasts that I sometimes see come up.

另外，从双子座的角度来看，优先考虑的可能是：我能否用这些词语和特定的事实尽快传达信息？

Well, on the Gemini angle too, if we were to think of what is a priority is like, can I get the message out as quickly as possible and with these words and these certain facts?

这和节奏有关，而节奏是一个优先事项，对吧？

And it has to do with the pacing, and that's a priority, right?

所以一方面如此，另一方面你还能看到木星的影响。

And so there's that, and then you see the other side with Jupiter.

我觉得时间上会稍微宽裕一些。

I think there's a little bit more time.

并没有水星那种必须迅速把事情说出来的急迫感。

There isn't the mercurial need to get things out super fast.

因此，木星带来了深思、深入探索、拓展延伸的特质。

And so there's the pondering aspect things and going deeply and going deeper or bigger, expanding out with Jupiter.

但至于角色、初始的行动，你知道的。

But yeah, as for the roles, movement, initial movements, you know.

我也喜欢思考双子座和射手座的区别，双子座可能像你说的那样过度依赖逻辑、事实或合乎常理的东西，而射手座看待生活的方式则是：我有信念。

I also like thinking about Gemini versus Sag, where Gemini can be over reliant, like you said, on logic or facts or what makes sense, and then the Sagittarian way of viewing life can be, I have faith.

我还没看到它，或者它现在看起来不合理，但这并不意味着它不可能更真实。

I don't see it yet or maybe it doesn't make sense yet, but that doesn't mean that it can't be any more true.

双子座要扩展到这种观点会更困难。

Gemini would have a harder time expanding itself into that viewpoint.

是的，这说得通。

Yeah, that makes sense.

射手座显然更关注大局，而双子座则更关注细节。

And Sagittarius is definitely more focused on the big picture where Gemini is more focused on the details.

好的。

All right.

你们能想到任何与此相关的星盘例子吗？

Are there any chart examples that either of you can think of that connect to that in any way?

我在想有没有什么好的对比案例。

I'm trying to think if there's any good contrast.

我们之前提到过爱德华·斯诺登，他的星盘中水星与双子座和射手座有强烈的对冲，这促使他有披露信息的冲动，但同时也存在张力，因为这与他的信念、叛逆感等紧密相关，某种程度上构成了他生命中的核心矛盾。

We did talk a bit earlier about Edward Snowden and how he has those heavy oppositions between Mercury and Gemini and Sagittarius in his chart and having that urge to disclose things, but also having that tension because it's tied in with sort of his beliefs and sort of a sense of rebelliousness and everything else, but that that was part of the core tension in his life in some way.

这可能有些争议，但西布利星盘中美国的星盘正好有射手座与双子座的对冲。

You know, this may be controversial, but the Sibley chart for The United States has a Sag Gem opposition.

所以我认为上升星座是射手座，火星、天王星和双子座位于第七宫。

So I think Sag rising and then Mars and Uranus and Gem in the seventh house.

这种情况有多种表现方式，但总体而言，可能是信念与天命之间的冲突， versus 事实和现状以及言论自由，所有这些。

And there's a lot of different ways that that can go, but generally, perhaps the war between belief and manifest destiny versus the facts and what's going on and freedom of speech, all of that.

也许我表达得不够清楚，但这种对立确实在我们的文化中存在。

Maybe I'm not explaining it well, but that polarity certainly exists in our culture.

是的，毫无疑问。

Yeah, for sure.

我认为在过去四到五年间的总统竞选中，正好印证了你所说的。

I think it in the last four to five years through the presidential campaigns, exactly to what you're talking about.

一方面是事实的表达或谈论事实，另一方面是人们的信念，以及什么是真实的、什么不是。

There's the expression of facts or talking about facts, and then there's people's beliefs, and then what is true and what is not.

这已经成为主要因素，不仅体现在政治上，也体现在我们几乎在互联网上所做的一切，至少在我们美国的文化中是这样。

This has been the major factor not just politically but with everything that we do on the internet pretty much or it's turned into that here in our culture in The States.

所以我觉得你说得非常准确。

So I think that's right on point.

你如何应对这种对立？

And how do you manage the polarity?

你该怎么做到这一点？

How do you do that?

这可以另开一期播客来讨论，但我觉得这个国家一直以来都保持着开放和拓荒精神，这种精神实际上与土地有关，对吧？

That gets us for another podcast or something, but I think this country's always had the wide openness, this frontierness, the exploration of, and that actually had to do with land, right?

但现在，这种对立存在于我们的思想中，或体现在互联网上。

But now it's in our minds or it's on the Internet how we do it.

所以，一方面是有事实的部分，或者它们是否真的是事实，另一方面是我的信念，而我们现在就处在这个政治状态、国家现状以及它演变成的样子中。

So again, there's the factual part or if they're even facts, then there's the other part of my beliefs, and here we are, where we are politically, where we are as a country and what it's turned into.

这还涉及到假新闻，对吧？

It also is fake news, right?

因此，射手座认为，这就是根据我的信念得出的新闻，这就是所谓的‘真感’。

So Sagittarius is like, this is the news according to my belief, This is truthiness.

而双子座则认为，不，这才是真相，这些才是事实。

Whereas Gemini is like, no, this is the truth and these are the facts.

由于行星交点正在经过这些星座，许多这样的情况被加剧了，但其实早在那之前，就已经因为我国政治的高度分裂而酝酿已久。

And so a lot of that has been kicked up with the nodes transiting those signs, but it was already baking just because of how divisive our politics are.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

很高兴你提到西布利星图，因为在我早期学习时，曾有人描述美国具有强烈的双子座特质。

And I'm glad you brought up the Sibley chart just because early on in my studies, I heard somebody describe The United States as having a heavy Gemini quality.

关于西布利星图存在争议，有人认为它上升星座是射手座，也有人主张是双子座上升，但我觉得这未必关键，因为无论哪种星图，美国星盘中都明显带有双子座的印记——毕竟火星和天王星都落在双子座。

And there's debates about the Sibley chart which has Sagittarius rising versus there's other charts like the Gemini rising chart, but I don't think it's necessarily relevant because there's a strong Gemini signature in The US chart no matter what because it has Mars and Uranus in that sign.

美国这个国家本身就充满二元性，或者说‘双重性’：比如政治上，它有两个主要政党，彼此不断争夺权力，来回交替，各自秉持几乎完全对立的理想、信念和对国家未来的愿景。

But it's just kind of a country that has those dualities or that notion of two ness where for example, politically it has the two major political parties that are constantly vying for power and going back and forth and have such almost diametrically opposite ideals and beliefs and visions of what the country should be.

但即便在地域上，这个国家也存在明显的差异。

But also even just you have different parts of the country historically.

比如历史上曾爆发内战，北方与南方相互对抗；又或者像东西海岸的两大城市——一边是纽约，另一边是洛杉矶——形成鲜明对比。

Like for example, you had a civil war where it's like the northern part of the country fights the southern part of the country or you have these other contrasts of like these huge twin cities on either side of the country like New York on one side and Los Angeles on the other side or what have you.

这种双胞胎或兄弟姐妹的主题不断重现，他们有着极其鲜明、近乎对立的特质，却依然在某种程度上被绑在一起，永远相连，不断来回往复。

Just this recurring theme of the two brothers or the two siblings that have these really contrasting almost opposite polarities but are still tied together the waist in some sense and forever connected and going back and forth in some way.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

而且更深层次的是，你知道，目前存在着如此多的派系和不同的信念群体。

And even deeper than that, it's like, you know, there's so many factions and like different groups of beliefs just going on currently.

这让我想到，双子座尤其受到天王星的影响时，会变得如此分裂、自我割裂、不断增殖，直到我们有太多不同的人相信和说着太多不同的事情，而这正是双子座也会引发的混乱。

And that just made me think of how Gemini, especially influenced by Uranus there, can get so fragmented and split off on itself and multiply and multiply until we have so many different people believing and saying so many different things, which is the confusion that Gemini can also bring up.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我认为，在我们的历史中，还存在另一面：我们嘴上说的，和实际行动却完全相反。

And I think there's the other part too in our history of saying one thing and our actions mean another.

哦，当然。

Oh, sure.

在政府的故事以及我们如何描绘事物的许多层面上，甚至包括我们如何描绘美国梦，以及这个梦想对许多人来说是否真的能成为现实。

And on many different levels with the story of our government and how we portray things, even how we portray the dream of America and whether that dream is a reality actually for many, if it would become a reality.

但它一直在不断变化，你知道吗？

But it's so constantly changing, You know?

我想起我的家乡，我的父母都是移民。

And I think about my where I'm from, both my parents are immigrants.

他们怀着梦想来到这里，追随了这个国家所宣扬的信念，而这种信念在某种程度上至今仍在传播，或者试图传达美国的理念。

You know, they came here on a dream, and and they followed the dream, the message that this country put out that in a sense still puts out or tries to America put

公关做得真不错。

does really good PR.

是的。

Yeah.

确实很擅长。

Totally good at it.

而且，你知道，如果你想想这个国家本身，关于公关、媒体、好莱坞以及这里产出的一切，我们已经做得非常到位了。

And and, you know, the if you think about the the country itself and what it is with PR and media and Hollywood and what's come out here, we have it down.

我们已经做得非常到位了。

We have it down.

我认为很多其他国家都从我们这里学到了这一点，现在它们也在使用自己的版本。

I think a lot of other countries have taken that from us and they use their own versions of it now.

但再次强调，当我们自称是自由之地时，对某些人来说，它真的自由吗？

But again, whether we portray ourselves as land of the free, is it really free for some people?

我们谈论其他国家的自由，但回顾我们的历史，我们对其他国家的干预，这难道不是一种双重标准吗？

Is it We talk about freedom in other countries, but then there's our history sometimes we've had with other countries and our interventions with them, and are we really It's like double talk.

所以回到之前的话题，你可以从很多层面来看，但我们的国家始终在不断变化。

So to go back on You could take this on many different levels, but it's always constantly changing with our country.

但另一方面，像你所说的，克里斯，两个政党、两座城市、东西海岸，总是非此即彼。

But in other ways, like you said, Chris, the two parties, two cities, the coast to coast, it's always this or that.

而我认为，在更深层的潜意识层面，真正需要的是将这两者融合在一起。

And then I think on a deeper subconscious level honestly is really the need and want to merge the two together.

有时候你会有那么一些瞬间，事情真的发生了，你知道吧？

Sometimes you have moments of it where it happens, you know?

那就是魔法出现的地方，是炼金术发生的时候，那时美国梦看起来相当美好，你知道，在那些时刻，但其实并不总是如此，并不是那样。

And that's where the magic comes, that's where the alchemy is, and then that's where the dream of America, it looks pretty good, you know, at those moments, but it's really not always Not that

我不想说得太长，但这真的很奇怪，因为火星和天王星目前位于双子座，对美国而言。

to prolong it too much, but it's so curious because Mars and Uranus are in Gemini for The United States.

我觉得当我们最团结的时候，往往是在一些可怕的事情发生之后。

And the moments where I feel like we are the most together is after something atrocious has happened.

在发生了某种火星或天王星式的‘塔’式冲击或震荡之后。

After there's been some type of Martian or Uranus kind of like a tower moment or like shake up.

对吧？

Right?

很遗憾，事情非得这样才行。

It's unfortunate that it has to be that way.

是的。

Yeah.

当然，2001年发生的一个这样的事件就是9月11日双子塔被毁，那是哈克斯事件。

Well, and one of those that happened of course in 2001 was when the Twin Towers were destroyed on September 11 of the Hax.

这也让我想起，占星师们总是提到，美国第一次天王星回归——大约八十四年后——是内战时期。

That also reminds me that the first Uranus return astrologers always comment on the first Uranus return of The United States after eighty four some odd years was the civil war.

那正是激活了双子座的位置。

It was activating that Gemini placement.

每当我想到火星和天王星位于双子座，我也会想到人们常谈论的美国汽车文化，以及美国为何如此辽阔分散；尤其是在二十世纪，我们的大多数城市最终都是围绕这种汽车文化建立的，这本身也带有火星和双子座的特质；而最近几个月，很多人也在谈论美国的枪支文化，这同样可能是一种火星、天王星和双子座共同作用的表现——火星代表武器，天王星代表技术。

And then whenever I think about that Mars and Uranus in Gemini, I also think of just the Sometimes people talk about the car culture of The United States and how it's such a uniquely large and spread out country and how especially in the twentieth century, it was like most of our cities ended up being built around this sort of car culture which is kind of a Mars and Gemini type thing as well as more recently a lot of people are talking about unfortunately over the past month the gun culture in The United States as well as potentially being like a Mars, Uranus and Gemini type thing at the same time of Mars which is like weapons and Uranus which is like technology.

还有背后那种情绪，比如：你不能剥夺我做这些事的自由。

And also just the sentiment behind it all like you're not gonna trample out my freedom to do these things.

对。

Right.

如果你试图剥夺我的自由，我就会用枪杀你或攻击你，就像‘别踩我’那面旗帜所表达的一样。

And if you do try to trample on my freedom, you're going to be killed or attacked with guns, like, don't tread on me or whatever that flag is.

是的。

Yeah.

捍卫自身自主权的这种心态，正是这个国家最基本的核心定义，而星盘也体现了这一根本前提。

Defending one's own autonomy the mindset behind that, and that's a fundamental so called definition of the country, and the chart is that's the fundamental premise per se, is that.

当你仔细想想，美国的建立就是我们脱离另一个国家的过程。

And when you think about it, the formation of The United States was us divorcing from another country.

我们追求的是独立。

Were trying to get independence.

所以这种二元性始终存在。

So that duality is always kind of there.

通过一份文件，通过《独立宣言》。

Through like a document, through like the declaration

权利的宣言。

of Right.

一份书面文件。

Like a written document.

他们在独立战争期间写下了这些内容，而那也正是天王星被发现的时期。

They wrote out like they wrote out in the Revolutionary War, you know, which is also happening around the time of the discovery of Uranus to begin with.

突然间，我们看到了美国伟大的独立战争和美利坚合众国的诞生，但与此同时，法国也在经历自己的革命。

Suddenly we're getting, you know, Great Revolutionary War in America and The United States, but then also France is having its own revolution.

但在《独立宣言》颁布前后，火星与天王星的运行位置确实非常引人注目。

But the Mars Uranus around the time of the Declaration of Independence and everything is pretty striking.

这让我想起另一个例子，最近我在翻阅自己的资料时想到的一个著名双子座案例：安妮·弗兰克，她是狮子座上升，太阳和水星都位于双子座，落在第十一宫。

So that brings up another example that I had or an example chart that I had thought of recently when I was looking through my own files of a famous Gemini and Mercury in Gemini, which is Anne Frank who was Leo rising and had the Sun and Mercury in Gemini in the eleventh house.

当然，她今天最广为人知的是写了那本日记，这本在大屠杀期间写下的日记，后来由她父亲整理出版，成为了一个小女孩在二战期间躲藏、经历内心挣扎、记录所思所想的见证，而她最终在大屠杀中遇难。

And of course, she's famously and primarily known today for having written her diary and having her diary which was written during the Holocaust published afterwards by her father as an example of just what this little girl went through going through the course of World War II and hiding and all of her internal thoughts and the things that she wrote down and put to paper as just part of her process of thinking and living at that age and then what ended up happening to her when she died in the Holocaust.

她的记忆通过文字得以延续，这无疑是双子座星盘配置一个非常有力而有趣的例证。

Having her memory sort of live on through her writings is kind of a really powerful and interesting example of some Gemini placements.

是的，毫无疑问。

Yeah, definitely.

当你看到土星与她的水星形成对冲时，这一点就更明显了。

Definitely when you have Saturn opposite her Mercury there.

从某种意义上说，这个人的生命中充满了各种形式的阻力。

And in a sense, there's resistance in many ways in this person's life.

这个相位的范围相当宽，具体要看情况，但它确实存在。

It's pretty wide orb just depending, but it's there.

我是不是观察到这也是一个逆行的双子座，水星也在双子座？

Am I correct in seeing that's a retrograde Gemini, Mercury in Gemini too?

我不太确定这一点，但确实存在一种阻力，而土星被用来构建出某种极其深刻和根本的东西，超越了她的一生，触及了人性中最艰难的部分。

I'm not too sure on that, but there is a resistance, and then the use of Saturn to construct something that's so deep and fundamental that goes past her life and deals with something that deals with the hardest parts of what being a human being is.

所有这些都在孤立中被逼迫出来，这既可以是土星的象征，也体现了逆行水星向内探索的特质。

And how all of that was forced out in isolation, which can both be a signification of Saturn, but also that retrograde Mercury going within.

是的。

Yep.

是的。

Yep.

对。

Yeah.

这是个很好的观点。

That's a good point.

土星的对冲表现为隐藏，或几乎被囚禁的状态，因此写作发生在一个并不积极、实际上非常艰难的背景下。

The Saturn opposition in hiding or almost being imprisoned in some way and so the writing is taking place in a context that's not positive, that's actually very difficult.

好的。

All right.

我想在某个时候再更深入地探讨一下双子座和射手座之间的对比。

I want to return at some point to that contrast between Gemini and Sagittarius a little bit more.

但目前，我们不如转而谈谈三合宫和另外两个风象星座？

But for now, why don't we move into talking about the triplicities and the other air signs?

在上一期关于金牛座的节目中，我曾开始对比同一模式或同一三合宫中的不同星座。

One of the things I did in a previous episode in the Taurus episode was we started contrasting the different signs either in the same modalities or the same triplicities.

我认为其中一个可能有帮助的对比，是将双子座——这个 mutable 风象星座，与另外两个风象星座：由金星守护的天秤座和由土星守护的水瓶座进行对比。

And one of them that I think might help is contrasting Gemini as an air sign, a mutable air sign with the other two air signs which are Libra which is ruled by Venus and Aquarius which is ruled by Saturn.

关于这些星座，我想我们之前讨论过一点，那就是它们倾向于理智化事物，有时在情感上显得有点冷漠。

So with all of these, I think one of the things we talked about, one of the things that's different is the tendency to intellectualize things or the tendency sometimes to come off as a little bit cold in some sense emotionally.

我认为，这种‘略带冷漠’的感觉确实会出现在双子座身上，也明显会出现在水瓶座身上，而水瓶座是一个由土星守护的固定风象星座。

And I think that's something that the notion of there being a little bit of coldness is definitely something that comes up with Gemini and it's definitely something that comes up with Aquarius, which is a fixed Saturn ruled air sign.

我们从天秤座这里感受到的这种特质会柔和一些，因为它由金星守护，而金星非常擅长社交互动。

We get that a little bit softer with Libra because it's ruled by Venus and Venus is very good at relating socially to things.

但即使是这种社交关联性，天秤座有时也会被指责在社交方式上显得有些肤浅。

But even that social relatingness can be a little bit Sometimes Libra is accused sometimes of being a little bit superficial in the way that it relates to things socially.

即便如此，我认为仍可能给人一种略微冷漠的印象。

Even there, there can be this perception of a little bit of coldness, I think.

这是否

Does that It make

是的。

does.

我认为在三者之中，天秤座因为受金星影响，没有双子座或水瓶座那么冷漠。

I would say out of all three that that Libra, because of Venus, isn't as cold as, you know, Gemini or Aquarius.

当然。

For sure.

对。

Yeah.

这仅仅是纸上谈兵。

Now that's on paper.

我觉得双子座可以内敛并做任何事。

I I Gemini has this I think could could turn in and do anything.

所以双子座有一部分，嗯，其实不是一部分。

So there's this part of the Gemini well, it's not part.

双子座的故事就是接纳其他东西，变成其他东西，比如黑暗与光明，等等。

It is the Gemini story of taking on something else, becoming something else, know, dark, light, so on and so forth.

你可以从这个角度看待它。

You could look at it that way.

所以我想把这一点说出来。

So I just wanna say that out loud.

我知道我们一直在简化，但是

I know we're keeping it simple, but

是的。

Yeah.

我们这里只是讨论一些概括性的内容，当然不能被视为百分之百永远成立。

We're just going for generalities here and and certainly can't be taken as 100% all the time.

显然，每个人的情况都不同，我每次播客都忘了重复这一点：每个人的星盘都是多种不同特质、位置和因素的混合体，会以各种方式表现出来。

Obviously, can be because everyone's chart is one of the things I always forget to repeat every episode is everybody's chart is a mixture of a bunch of different qualities and placements and traits and different things like that and is going to express in different ways.

我们在这里所做的，是尽可能孤立地聚焦于某一种原型，单独讨论它，并探讨其各种不同的表现形式。

One of the things we're doing here is we're trying to isolate one archetype as much as we can and talk about it in isolation and talk about the spectrum of different manifestations.

但现实中，事情显然比任何单一原型、表现形式或类似的东西都要复杂得多。

But obviously things are in reality a lot more complex than any one archetype or manifestation or anything like that.

所以，没有人应该把我们讨论的任何一种特质当作教条，或认为这是唯一可能的表现方式。

So nobody should take any one quality that we're talking about as gospel or the only way something that can manifest or anything like that.

我们只是在讨论，比如说，某种倾向和概括性的方向，即事物通常可能发展的方向，有时也会根据星座的倾向性进行排序，某些星座可能更倾向于朝某个方向发展。

We're just talking about, let's say tendencies and generalities of a general direction that things can go as a default and a sort of ranking sometimes of signs that maybe have more of a tendency to go in a certain direction or another.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

想到天秤座和双子座的区别时，我第一个想法是，天秤座是主动的风象星座，因此有一种推动事情开始的特质。

And thinking about the difference between Libra and Gemini, my first thought was that Libra is cardinal air, so there's a quality of wanting to get things started.

当考虑到金星的守护时，人们倾向于以一种轻松、和谐的方式生活，并促进某种平衡。

And then when you pull in the Venus rulership, a tendency to want to move through life in a way that's easy or more harmonious and kind of stokes some balance.

在我看来，双子座有一种特质，不仅能随波逐流，还可能变得支离破碎、优柔寡断，这里走走，那里动动，倒退、上升，来回不定。

And to me, there is a quality of Gemini that can not only go with the flow but become fragmented, indecisive, move here, move there, move backwards, move up.

同时，双子座对混乱的容忍度更高，而天秤座则会稍显抗拒，因为天秤座需要平衡与和谐。

And then also a little bit more of a tolerance for chaos, which Libra would be a little bit averse to because of that need for balance and that need for harmony.

我立刻想到的一个例子是，几年前的夏天，坎耶·韦斯特因为发表许多离谱言论而频繁登上新闻头条。

And an example that very quickly came to mind was thinking about how a couple of summers ago maybe Kanye West was getting in a lot of trouble with, you know, news outlets because he was saying very outlandish things.

他太阳与木星合相于双子座，而他的前妻金·卡戴珊则是天秤座，常常在他说出某些话后出来善后，扮演公关角色，思考如何缓和局势，如何将双子座的混乱加以包装，使其不那么粗糙和杂乱。

He has a sun Jupiter conjunction in Gemini, and how it was his then wife, Kim Kardashian, who was the Libra, who was kind of coming in to clean up after he had said, you know, certain things, kind of like that PR, kind of thinking of like, how can I smooth this over or how can I take that chaos of Gemini and capsule it in some way that it's not as ragged and chaotic?

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

坎耶是当代太阳位于双子座的绝佳代表。

Kanye is one of the great contemporary Sun and Gemini examples.

我们没有他的出生时间。

We do not have a birth time for him.

网上流传着一些可能是假的出生时间，不知为何被某些来源发布出来。

There's false probably fake birth times that are floating around from that have been put out by sources for some reason.

在过去十年里，我花了大量时间试图追踪坎耶的星盘。

I've spent a lot of inordinate amount of time trying to track down Kanye's birth chart over the past decade.

这是我们目前最接近的资料，即他的太阳和木星位于双子座。

This is the closest that we have right now, which is that he has the Sun and Jupiter in Gemini.

它与海王星相对，并且大概至少在星座上与双鱼座月亮呈四分相。

It's opposite to Neptune and probably at least roughly by sign square a Pisces Moon.

但确实，这是另一个例子，说明了一个人在语言和歌词创作方面非常出色，同时在制作上也很有天赋。

But yeah, that's another example of somebody that's amazing with words and a lyricist and also amazing with production.

坎耶的一个特别厉害的地方是他非常擅长取用旧歌进行采样，然后以某种方式重新包装，这也是一种有趣的水星或双子座特质。

One of the things that's really cool about Kanye is he's really good at taking old things and sampling old songs and then repackaging them in some way, which is an interesting Mercury type or Gemini type skill to have as well.

但确实，他擅长制造争议，我想这和你所说的有一点关系，或者有时确实带有一种混乱的特质。

But yeah, he's good at creating controversy and I think is part of what you're saying a little bit or there can be a chaotic quality sometimes.

当然。

Absolutely.

或者就是随口说出一些毫无目的的话，

Or like just blurting things out kind of with no purpose or

当然。

Sure.

考虑后果。

Thinking about the fallout.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得那就是木星的作用。

I think that's that Jupiter right there.

木星只是

Jupiter just

就能突然爆发。

just just can boom.

大声说出来。

Say it loudly.

是的。

Yeah.

我想起他当时在办公室时的那个TMZ采访。

I think about that TMZ interview when he was at the offices.

没错。

Exactly.

那场采访太激烈了，非常强硬，你知道吗，他就像个终极谜题大师。

That was intense, hardcore where, you know, he's being again, he's like the master cipher.

你知道，他内心确实有这些东西，但这也确实游走在双子座的边缘，我觉得，因为他的歌词和专辑里有太多深刻的内容，人们能产生共鸣，但抛开音乐，作为一个人，他的经历真的很有趣。

You know, he has it in there, but it's he it's definitely riding the edge of of how the the Gemini edge, I would say, because there's just so many profound things in, like, you know, his lyrics in his albums and stuff you hear, and, you know, people connect to it, but on the outside of the music, yeah, as a person, it's just an interesting journey.

回到你说金·卡戴珊是天秤座的事。

Go back to saying you said Kim was a Libra.

对吧？

Right?