占星学中的房屋划分计算详解

在完成这个简短的历史概述后，我们稍后会深入探讨这个系统背后的数学原理。

And we'll get into the mathematics underlying that system in just a bit here after this little historical overview.

我顺便想提一下，因为你提到了J.D.诺斯的著作《星盘与历史》，这是关于宫位划分的主要学术著作之一。

I meant to mention also in passing that because you mentioned like JD North's book Horoscopes and History which is one of the primary academic texts on house division.

我知道近年来还有一些其他学术著作对不同的宫位划分系统进行了研究。

I know there's been also some other more recent work on different systems of house division in academic texts.

你提到过一位最近在做相关研究的作者，他的名字叫朱利安。

Like you mentioned one of the authors who was doing some work more recently, his name was Julian.

卡索拉里斯，我现在想不起他的名字了。

This Casolaris, I failed the first name at this point.

他是一位数学史学家，著有大量关于宫位划分以及中世纪伊斯兰世界主向系统（计算主向的方法）的研究成果。

He's a historian of mathematics and he has works on the divisions the division, the house system divisions and also the direction systems, the systems for calculating primary directions in the medieval Islamic world.

我认为他与其他作者合著的论文，是我目前所知的关于文本中发现的不同宫位系统分类的最新研究。

I think his papers that he co authored with other authors as well are the latest that I'm aware of in terms of the classification of the different systems that they find in the text works.

好的。

Okay.

是的

Yeah.

还有另一本学术著作。

Then There's another academic text.

我一时想不起来那位撰写关于中世纪不同宫位体系论文的作者是谁。

I'm struggling to think of the author who did a paper on different medieval systems of house division.

他还写过一本关于阿拉伯天文学的杰出著作。

And he had also done that brilliant book about Arabic astronomy.

是的，他是胡利奥·萨西奥姆。

Yeah, he's Julio Samsiom.

我想你指的是胡利奥·萨西奥姆，他也撰写过许多关于宫位体系的著作，或整理了大量资料；另外还有一位肯尼迪。

I think the one that you were thinking was Julio Samsiom who also did a number of texts on house systems or compiled a lot of information and there is another Kennedy.

肯尼迪，对，就是他。

Kennedy, that's it.

是的

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这发生在北方之后。

That comes after north.

所以北方做了奠基性的工作，然后肯尼迪对其进行修正并补充了更多信息。

So north does the seminal work then Kennedy rectifies and adds more information to what north does.

然后萨姆索和卡索拉拉斯继续了这项研究。

And then Samso and then Casolaras are the ones that are continuing this research.

是的。

Yeah.

那篇文章是E.S.肯尼迪写的。

And paper, it's an article or paper by ES Kennedy.

文章标题是《中世纪伊斯兰天文学家定义的占星宫位》。

It's titled The Astrological Houses as Defined by Medieval Islamic Astronomers.

这是一篇非常优秀的作品。

It's a very good work.

不过确实存在一个问题，也存在分歧，这就涉及到了一个模糊的议题。

So there is a problem though and there is a division and this gets into the murky issue.

但从重新发现整宫制这个概念的角度来看，据我所知，直到最近我还认为詹姆斯·霍尔登——至少在英语世界中——是第一个公开讨论整宫制很可能是占星术最初的形式，或至少是公元前一世纪到公元五、六世纪希腊文本中最常见的宫位划分方式的学者或占星师。

But in terms of the revival of rediscovering that whole sign houses was a concept which from my perspective, I thought until recently that James Holden, certainly in English, James Holden was the first both academic or astrologer that I knew of who really talked very openly about this that whole sign houses was probably the original form of house division or certainly was the most common form of house division in the Greco Roman period in the Greek texts from about the first century BCE through the fifth or sixth century.

他最早在1984年的一篇关于不同宫位划分形式的论文中提出了这一观点。

And he did that first in 1984 in a paper on the different forms of house division.

在此之后，我们看到其他学者如罗伯特·汉德开始发表相关论文，包括一些占星著作，以及2006年左右在《文化与宇宙》上发表的学术论文；此外还有罗伯特·施密特等学者，以及最近的我自己。

And then after that point, we see other scholars like Robert Hand starting to publish papers on it, some astrological including a monograph and then eventually a academic paper on it in Culture and Cosmos in 2006 or so, but also other scholars like Robert Schmidt and then more recently myself.

我还做了一期节目，想提一下，它深入探讨了不同宫位划分方式的早期起源，特别是在希腊化传统中的情况，这期节目是《占星播客》第227期，标题为《古代占星术中宫位划分争议的起源》。

And I did an episode I wanted to mention that talks about the early origins of the different forms of house division which goes into that in a little bit more depth in the Hellenistic tradition, but that's in episode two twenty seven of The Astrology Podcast titled The Origins of the House Division Debate in Ancient Astrology.

所以我之所以提到这一点，是因为我对于J.

So I wanted to mention that because one of my issues with J.

D.

D.

诺斯以及其他一些学术学者的一个看法是，尽管他们在象限宫位系统方面非常全面，且对其中的数学基础非常感兴趣，但我仍觉得他们存在一个盲点：由于整宫制在二十世纪的西方传统中基本失传，他们并未意识到它实际上曾是希腊罗马传统和希腊文本中一种被广泛使用的合法宫位划分方式。

North and some of the other academic scholars is even though they're very comprehensive for the quadrant systems of house division and they're very interested in the mathematics underlying them, I do feel like there was this blind spot where because whole sign houses was lost for the most part by the twentieth century in the Western tradition, there wasn't a realization that that was actually used as a legitimate form of house division in the Greco Roman tradition in the Greek texts.

J.D. North甚至声称，他认为希腊占星师并没有像后来的传统那样频繁使用宫位。

And JD North goes so far as to say that he didn't think the Greek astrologers even used houses as much as some of the later tradition did.

但事实上，这显然是错误的。

But that was actually just obviously quite false.

他们只是没有使用 quadrant 宫位系统，而是将星座本身作为宫位，如果你不了解这一点，有时会误以为他们根本没有使用宫位。

It's just that they weren't using quadrant houses, they were instead using the signs as houses which if you're not aware of that can sometimes make it look as if they're not using houses at all.

但如果宫位有时被理解为与星座重合，那么他们使用宫位的频率其实和后来的中世纪及文艺复兴时期的占星师一样，只是方式略有不同。

But if houses are understood sometimes to coincide with the signs, then they were using them just as frequently as the later Medieval and Renaissance astrologers just in a slightly different way.

是的。

Yeah.

North 和几位其他数学史学家的问题在于，他们从数学角度不认为整宫制是一种宫位划分方法。

The problem with North and several other historians of mathematics is apparently that they do not consider the whole house system to be a house division, not in the mathematical perspective.

也许我们可以称之为，我们在讨论宫位系统。

Could call perhaps Well, we're talking about house systems.

因此，有几种不同的方法来确定星盘中的宫位。

So several systems of establishing the houses in the chart.

但从数学角度来看，他们认为整个星座并不是一种真正的划分。

But mathematically, they consider that the whole sign is not really a division.

它只是根据上升点的确定，然后按顺序将星座分配给某些主题或某些宫位。

It's just an attribution of signs to certain topics or certain houses starting with the determination of the Ascendant and then the determination is done in sequence.

因此对他们来说，这并不是一个复杂的数学问题。

So for them, that's not a mathematically complex problem.

他们将其视为一种非常基础且简单的宫位分配方式。

They see it as a very primary and simple way of attributing the houses.

所以他们不会在研究中考虑它，因为这并非他们的关注重点。

So they're not going to consider it in their studies because that's not their focus.

他们想要理解的是微积分的发展、三角学，以及球面不同部分向黄道、向赤道的投影。

They want to understand how the calculus develops, the trigonometry, the projection of the different parts of the sphere onto the ecliptic, onto the equator.

而这些在整宫制中都没有发生。

So none of that is happening in the whole house system.

因此他们会忽略它。

So they're going to ignore it.

当然，如果我们从占星术的历史角度来探讨这个话题，那完全是另一种讨论方式。

And of course, if we approach the topic from the perspective of the history of astrology, then it's a whole other discourse.

这很有趣，因为如果你从占星术历史上几乎无人涉足的角度来研究宫位，那你谈论的就是实践。

And this is the interesting thing because if you approach the topic of the houses which almost no one has ever done at least globally through the history of astrology, then you're talking about practice.

那么你就必须理解实践中真正使用的是什么。

And then you have to understand what is being used in practice.

到目前为止，学术讨论主要集中在数学上。

Here and the academic discussion so far have been mostly centered on mathematics.

因此，整宫制就很少被提及。

And so the whole sign doesn't pop up.

虽然我之前告诉过你，虽然我找不到那个出处，但我确信它就在某处。

Although as I told you before and I couldn't find that reference, but I know it's there somewhere.

希腊传统早期的学者，以及那个时代的学者，都了解希腊化时期星盘的构建方式。

The earlier scholars of the Greek tradition, know, and the scholars of that time, they are aware of how the chart is constructed in the Hellenistic period.

所以他们可能不太关注给它命名，但他们确实描述了使用整宫制的星盘和命盘。

So they probably don't focus so much on giving it a name but they are describing horoscopes and charts with whole science houses.

他们明白，我们的宫位是通过命点来构建的，采用的是计数方式。

They understand that our houses which are constructed from the part of fortune which are done by counting.

我认为这就是他们使用的词——计数。

And I think that's the word they use, counting.

这些主题是通过计数星座来描述的。

Topics are described by counting the signs.

他们知道这种做法存在，但并不将其视为一种宫位系统，因为这似乎不是他们的关注重点。

They are aware that that exists but they're not discussing it as a house system because that's not their focus I think.

我不太确定这一点，因为我知道，在过去五到十年里，一些更近期的学者确实可能意识到这一点。

And I'm not sure about that just because I know with some more recent academics like in the past five to ten years, I could see that being true that maybe they're aware of that.

但他们专注于数学体系，因此他们只想关注那些在象限宫位系统背后更有趣的数学内容。

But because they're focused on the mathematical systems, that's all they want to really focus on is because that's the thing that's more interesting in terms of the mathematics underlying the quadrant systems.

但我确实认为，曾经有一段时期，像J.D.诺斯这样的学者并没有意识到‘全宫制’这个概念，这成了他们的盲点。

But I do think there was this period where academics like JD North didn't realize that whole sign houses was a concept and it was a sort of blind spot.

我一直在追溯关于‘全宫制’最早的文献记载。

And I've been trying to track back what the earliest references are to whole sign houses.

我仍然不确定，因为我读过布歇·勒克莱尔的《希腊占星术》，这是过去一个世纪以来关于希腊罗马占星术的主要学术参考著作。

I'm still unsure because I've read through Boucher Leclerc's Astrology Grec which is like the primary academic reference text for Greco Roman astrology for the past century.

这本书大约是在1899年出版的，或者类似的时间。

Was published in like 1899 or something like that.

但我并不确定。

But I'm not sure.

书中有些地方几乎要描述出整宫制了，但我真的不知道他是否意识到这是一种宫位划分方式。

There's some places where he comes very close to almost describing whole sign houses, but I legitimately don't know if he recognized that as a form of house division.

因为如果他意识到了，那么在他之后的大多数学者应该也会认识到这一点。

Because if he did, I think most of the academic subsequent to him would have recognized it as well.

但在大多数文献中，他们似乎直到霍尔登，以及后来罗布·汉德等人的出现，才开始讨论它。

But in most texts, they seem to be unaware of it until Holden and then subsequently Rob Hand and some of those people started talking about it.

是的。

Yeah.

但你也会想到，那个叫什么名字的？

But you also have What's the name?

是《努加贝》这本书，关于希腊星盘的，如果我没记错的话，应该是这个标题。

By Nugabe, the Greek horoscopes, think that's the title if I'm recalling correctly.

对。

Right.

它们有很多使用整宫制的例子，并且在描述这些星盘。

They have a lot of examples with whole signs and they are describing them, the horoscope.

他们应该是有意识的。

They should be aware

我不确定他们是否意识到这一点，这才是问题所在。

I'm of what's happening not sure if they were, that's the problem.

这真是太奇怪了。

That's what's so weird.

我认为他们没有讨论它，也没有给它命名，因为这些人并不是占星史学家。

I don't think they're discussing it or calling it a name because these are not historians of astrology.

他们主要关注的是数学和数学实践。

So they're focusing on the mathematics and mathematical practices mostly.

这就是我认为的原因。

That's why I think so.

所以他们并不关心给它命名。

So they're not concerned with calling it a name.

你可能正在观察这一现象。

You might be observing this phenomenon.

尽管历史编纂学有时会存在巨大的盲点，看起来就像巨大的黑洞。

Although sometimes historiography has these huge blind spots that seem like huge black holes.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

我想说，去年我找到一本书。

I did want to say that I found a book last year.

所以我原本以为霍尔登是最早同时被占星师和学者提及的人之一，因为我找到了20世纪70年代和80年代初的其他英文书籍，它们根本没提到整宫制，因为当时人们并不了解这是20世纪中后期占星传统中的一个概念。

So I thought Holden was one of the first people both astrologers and academics because I found other books in English on house division from the 1970s and early 1980s and they just don't mention the whole sign houses because they're not aware of it as a concept in the astrological tradition in the mid to late twentieth century.

霍尔登是最早明确命名并指出这是一种方法的人之一。

And Holden was one of the first that explicitly named it and said this is an approach.

我以为他是最早的人之一。

I thought he was one of the first.

但后来我实际上发现了一本在过去一年内再版的书。

But then I actually found a book that was republished just in the past year.

这是一本1959年的德语书，名为《星盘与天宫屋》作者是沃尔特·科赫和威廉·纳佩奇。

And it's a German book from 1959 called Horoscope and Himmelhauser by Doctor.

沃尔特·科赫和威廉·纳佩奇。

Walter Koch and William Napage.

这是一本1959年的德语书，书中详细探讨了不同的宫位划分体系，两位作者都是占星师。

So this is a book in German from 1959 where they go through the different systems of house division and these were two astrologers.

科赫实际上是科赫宫位系统的发明者，这一系统在二十世纪后期变得非常流行，至今仍有许多占星师在使用。

Coke actually was the inventor of the Coke system of houses which became very prominent in the late twentieth century and even still today many astrologers use.

但他们两人都接受过古典训练，能够阅读希腊文和拉丁文文献，书中明确提到古希腊占星家使用星座作为宫位，并将此视为最早的体系，随后才逐渐发展出其他体系。

But they both had classical training So they could read Greek and Latin texts and they do talk very explicitly about the Greek astrologers using the signs as houses and talk about that as being like the earliest system and then how other systems were invented and developed after that point.

所以我想指出这一点，因为这意味着至少在某些德语文献中，我认为这本书的传播并不广泛，比如在霍尔登的参考书目里我就没找到。

So I wanted to point that out just because that means at least in some German text, I don't think this book was very well circulated and I didn't find it in the Holden's bibliography for example.

但这表明，至少有一些德国占星师在詹姆斯·霍尔登开展研究的前三十年就已经了解这种方法了。

But it means at least some of the German astrologers were aware of this way before, like three decades before James Holden was doing his work.

是的。

Yeah.

二十世纪二三十年代的德国占星师非常活跃，他们的占星学非常侧重于数学、方位和计算。

Well, the Germans in the 20s and the 30s decades of the twentieth century are very active in astrology and their astrology is a lot centered on mathematics, directions, calculations.

因此，如果二十世纪早期有人注意到这一点，那很可能是德国作者。

So if there is someone in the early astrography of the twentieth century that noticed that would be the German author.

所以，也许可以去那里寻找这个参考来源。

So perhaps that's a place to look for that reference.

对。

Right.

当然。

For sure.

对。

Right.

抱歉说了这么长的岔题。

Sorry for that long digression.

这让我想起了过去几年一直在研究的很多内容。

It just brings up a lot of stuff I've been working on of course for past several years.

我们回到你演讲中断的地方吧，之前讲到了阿尔卡比提乌斯体系。

Why don't we get back to your presentation where we left off was at the Alcabitius system.

抱歉，我老是把屏幕抢回来，我们得再共享一次。

Sorry, I keep stealing the screen back from you so we'll have to share it again.

我们刚刚讨论了阿尔卡比提乌斯体系，它从五世纪开始，尤其是在中世纪时期，逐渐成为主流体系。

We've just talked about Alcabitius and that becoming the sort of standard system from the fifth century onward especially during the Medieval period.

那么接下来是什么呢？

So what comes after that?

没错。

Exactly.

然后还有一个系统经常被提及，尽管我不太确定它当时有多流行，因为我对此缺乏足够的数据。

And then one system that is constantly being referred to, although I'm not so sure about how popular it was, I don't have enough data on it.

这就是我们所知的坎帕努斯系统，据我们目前的研究，它归功于阿尔·比鲁尼，或者至少阿尔·比鲁尼描述了这个系统，并声称自己是它的发明者。

It's what we know as the Campanus system which as far as we know in terms of study is attributed to al Biruni or at least al Biruni describes the system and claims himself to be its inventor.

好的。

Okay.

他生活在十世纪吗？

And he lived in the tenth century?

十世纪，是的。

Tenth century, yes.

所以我认为是在十世纪到十一世纪之间的过渡期，如果我没记错的话，应该是十世纪末。

So I think transition between the tenth and eleventh century, so late tenth century if recall correctly.

在其中一个表格中，我认为是朱利奥·萨尔马发现的，他在一篇论文中提到，这篇论文似乎叫《阿尔·比鲁尼》，他发现了这一点。

So in one of these tables, and I think it's Julio Samsa that detected this in one of his papers, is called I think entitled Al Biruni, he detected this.

因此，他很早就描述了后来被称为坎帕努斯系统的这种体系。

So he's describing what will later will be known as the Campanus system very early on.

似乎存在对这一系统的多次独立发现。

And there appears to exist several discoveries of this system.

因此，在十世纪末至十一世纪的伊斯兰欧洲世界，这一系统从不同角度被多次使用。

So several uses of this system from slightly different perspectives throughout the late tenth and eleventh century in the Islamic European world.

我们主要讨论的是伊比利亚半岛和北非地区。

So we're talking mainly the Iberian Peninsula and the North Africa.

为什么它被归为坎帕努斯的名字呢？

Why is he described to Campanus?

我不确定。

I'm not sure.

我不确定坎帕努斯是否真的描述过这一系统，但他在十五世纪似乎变得流行起来。

I'm not sure if Campanus ever did describe this system, but he appears to become popular in the fifteenth century.

所以，尤其是在十五世纪，由一位名叫乔瓦尼·高苏卢的作者——我认为他的非拉丁化名字是加祖利——他在十五世纪上半叶生活。

So, fourteen, fifteenth century especially in the fifteenth century by this author, what's his name is, Ioannis Gaussoulou, so I think it's Gazzuli, it's his non Latinized name who lived roughly in the first half of the fifteenth century.

他为这一系统编制了表格，并且据我回忆，他在意大利帕多瓦工作。

And he created tables for it and he was working in Italy in Padua if I recall correctly.

他也是这一系统的坚定倡导者。

And he was an advocate, strong advocate of this system.

你刚才说这是在十五世纪吗？

You said that's in the fifteenth century?

十五世纪，是的。

Fifteenth century, yeah.

好的。

Okay.

所以正是在那时，这一系统变得流行起来，并被归功于卡马努斯·迪·诺瓦拉，他是一位生活在十三世纪的意大利数学家、天文学家和占星家。

So that's when it becomes popularized and it's attributed to Campanus of Novara who was like an Italian mathematician and astronomer and astrologer who lived in the thirteenth century.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

卡马努斯的出现虽然稍早一些，但大致与下一个系统——雷吉奥蒙塔努斯系统——同时出现，而雷吉奥蒙塔努斯划分法的最早描述之一似乎来自阿尔卡比提乌斯，时间在十至十一世纪之交。

Campanus appears, although it's a bit early, it appears more or less at the same time as the next system which is the Regiomontanus, what we call the Regiomontanus division which again it's one of the first descriptions appears to be by Alcabitius in the passage between the tenth and eleventh century.

尽管星盘刻度上存在证据表明这些系统或其类似版本可能更早就已被使用，但我认为最早可追溯到公元八世纪。

Although there are evidences in astrolabe plates that these systems might have been in use or similar versions of these systems could have been used before, I think one of the earliest is in the eighth century.

所以，所有这些时间点都可能比这早得多。

So everything, all these dates can be much earlier than this.

早一两个世纪。

One, two, three centuries earlier.

但这是我们目前所掌握的数据。

But this is the data we have currently.

随后，这些系统因雷吉奥蒙塔努斯的著作而广为传播。

And it's then popularized by Regiomontanus' works.

好的。

Okay.

雷吉奥蒙塔努斯是一位德国数学家、天文学家和占星家吗？

Regiomontanus was like a German mathematician and astronomer and astrologer?

是的，一位非常著名的人物。

Yeah, a very famous one.

他撰写了一系列天文表和数学著作。

And he wrote a series of tables and a series of works on mathematics.

他非常著名，在他那个时代及之后都经常被引用。

Very famous, he's constantly being referenced in his own time and later.

他和我之前提到的加祖利大致是同时代的人。

And he is more or less contemporary with Ghazuli that I was referring to.

尽管这一领域研究极少，但似乎在德国数学家和意大利数学家之间曾发生过一场关于哪种宫位系统最佳的区域性竞争。

And there appears to have been although this highly understudied, a sort of a regional war between German mathematicians and Italian mathematicians as what would be the best house system.

所以这里还涉及国籍问题，你知道的？

So there's a nationality thing here, you know?

雷吉奥蒙塔努斯系统最终胜过了坎帕努斯系统。

And Regiomontanus system that wins over Campanus.

但有趣的是，在数学和天文学的不同学派之间，正竞争着要为占星实践提供最完美的宫位系统。

But it is interesting to see different schools here in this case of mathematics and astronomy competing to have the most perfect house system for astrological practice.

是的。

Yeah.

还存在一些文本和历史方面的问题，因为我在《占星播客》第244期中采访了安东尼·刘易斯，那期节目的标题是‘普拉西杜斯系统是如何成为最受欢迎的宫位系统的’。

There's also some like textual and historical things going on because I did in episode two forty four of the Astrology Podcast, I interviewed Anthony Lewis and we talked about how did Placidus become the most popular house system was the title of the episode.

我们讨论了有时某些系统之所以流行，是因为作者们争论说这是托勒密原本想使用的系统，或者他们认为托勒密在文本中描述过，因此某些系统有时会因这种原因而变得突出。

We talked about how sometimes some of the different systems were coming into vogue because the authors were arguing that this was the system that Ptolemy meant to use or they thought that he described in his text and so sometimes certain systems were coming prominent for that reason.

是的，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

我们在这里看到的所有这些系统，要么归于赫尔墨斯、托勒密，要么归于更早的某位作者。

All of these systems we see here are either attributed to Hermes, Ptolemy or some earlier author.

而且有证据表明，一些更早的作者确实使用过这些系统或类似的方法。

And there appears to be evidences that some of the earlier authors appear to have used them or used similar things.

如今，我们对宫位系统的大部分知识都来自占星书籍。

The thing is nowadays most of our knowledge of house systems is extracted from astrology books.

所以，如果一本占星手册描述了一个宫位系统，或者提供了星盘示例。

So if a manual in astrology describes a house system or it has a chart example.

但这并不是研究这个问题的最佳资料来源。

But that is not the best source for this issue.

关于这个问题，最好的资料是表格。

The best source for this would be the tables.

那些教授如何计算星盘的书籍，以及仪器手册，比如我们稍后会谈到的Astro Lab。

So the books that teach how to calculate charts and the manuals for instruments namely the Astro Lab which we'll speak in a moment.

但正是这些文本中，人们讨论如何计算各种宫位系统，而这些信息大多来源于此。

But those are the texts where you see them debating how to calculate how systems and that's where most of this information comes from.

因为在大多数占星书籍中，他们并不会争论自己使用的是哪种系统。

Because most of the time in an astrology book, they're not going to argue which system they're using.

他们只是在进行解读，直接采用某种系统而已。

They're just interpreting things and just going with it.

他们并没有在书中进行所有的数学和概念性推导工作。

They're they're not doing all the mathematical conceptual work in there.

例如，雷格蒙塔努斯系统，他称之为理性系统（modus rationales）或理性划分法，其讨论出现在他的赤经表中。

So for example, Regiomontanus systems which he calls the rational system, the modus rationales or the rational division, it's discussed in his tables of right ascension.

他的升度表中，所有这些内容都得到了详细推导。

So his tables of ascension, it's there where all of this is worked.

是的

Yeah.

这是早期现代时期直至二十世纪早期几十年中最流行的系统。

And it is the most popular system in the early modern period and extending to the early decades of the twentieth century.

所以尽管雷吉奥蒙塔努斯。

So although Regiomontanus.

雷吉奥蒙塔努斯。

Regiomontanus.

你仍然能在二十世纪早期的学校中发现使用雷吉奥蒙塔努斯系统的，特别是德国的占星学校。

You still find schools using Regiomontanus in the early decades of the twentieth century, namely German schools of astrology.

而且部分原因也是，最近它重新流行起来，因为我认为威廉·利利使用了雷吉奥蒙塔努斯宫位，对吧？

And part of the reason also there's been a more recent revival of it because William Lilly I believe used Regiomontanus houses, right?

是的

Yeah.

如果在十六或十七世纪有人使用除雷吉奥蒙塔努斯以外的系统，那将是非常罕见的情况，因为几乎所有人都用它。

Well, if someone in the sixteenth and seventeenth century is using something else other than Regiomontanus, they will be a very strange case because it's almost universal.

所有人都在用雷格蒙塔努斯宫位制。

Everyone uses Regiomontanus.

你会发现，在数学典籍里讲解各类宫位划分方法的篇章中，他们提到了古人所用的方法，但我们永远无法确定那是整宫制还是等宫制，因为他们对这部分的描述非常模糊。

And you see in the house discussions when they explain the various methods in the mathematical books, they state the ancients which we never know if it's whole sign system or equal house because they're not very clear on that.

他们会先描述坎帕努斯宫位划分法，随即就把雷格蒙塔努斯的方法称作划分宫位体系的正统方法。

They describe Campanus division and then they jump into Regiomontanus as being the true way of dividing the house system.

这套方法的普及度极高，在那个年代，几乎百分之百的人都在使用这个体系。

And this is so universal that the system becomes almost to a 100% usage at this period.

我记得零星也出现过几个例外，但数量极少极少。

There are here and there a few exceptions I think but very, very few.

真的非常少。

Very few.

好的。

Okay.

对，那之后莉莉对雷格蒙塔努斯宫位制的支持就很有分量——毕竟他的著作是最早的英语占星学权威教科书，这份影响力一直延续到了后来：比如上世纪80年代英国兴起占星学传统复兴浪潮，1985年威廉·莉莉的《基督教占星学》被再版，又重新被人们拿来研习。

So yeah, and then Lilly's endorsement of Regiomontanus then because that was the earliest major English textbook on astrology then held some weight or carried some weight with it and continues to where for example, due to the traditional revival of astrologers starting in the 1980s in The UK starting to reprint in 1985 William Lilly's Christian Astrology and use that again.

由于人们希望效仿17世纪传统的占星术方法，一些占星师重新开始使用Regiomontanus体系来处理卜卦占星，因此如今某些占星流派仍推崇这一系统，认为它是最优选择，这正是对威廉·利利的模仿所致。

There was a sudden revival of Regiomontanus where because they wanted to emulate that approach to traditional horary astrology from the seventeenth century, a number of astrologers then started using Regiomontanus again for horary so that some schools of astrology now still endorse that as the best system to use as a result of that emulation of William Lilly.

是的。

Yeah.

可以说，传统重建的第一步是早期现代占星术，而威廉·利利的著作是其基础，因为它用的是英语，而不是拉丁语或其他晦涩语言，因此广受欢迎。

Let's say that almost Well, the first line of reconstruction of the tradition was early modern astrology of which Willa was a basis and because it was in English, it was not in Latin or any other strange language, it had a lot of popularity.

当人们重新构建、重新学习卜卦占星时，他们自然会采用他所使用的体系。

When people were rebuilding and reviving, relearning horary, they would be using the system that he was using.

因此，这就是为什么人们在进行卜卦占星时普遍声称使用Regiomontanus体系的主要原因。

So that's the main reason why Regiomontanus is claimed to be the one that people use when doing orari.

那是因为他们就是这样学习的。

That's because that's how they learn.

然而，在不同时期，人们也会使用其他体系来进行卜卦实践。

However, in different periods, people will be using other systems for the practice of oratory.

因此，这并非卜卦占星独有的现象，我们或许应该强调这一点：直到20世纪晚期之前，人们从未讨论过哪种体系更好或更差。

So that's not exclusive of oratory and that's perhaps a message that we should state here is that until the twentieth century, the late twentieth century, there is no discussion on a better system for this or a better system for that.

整个实践是统一的。

The entire practice is uniform.

所以你不会为命理、问卜、本命占星使用不同的系统。

So you're not going to use something for mundane, something for auris, something for nativities.

你在整个实践中都使用同一个系统。

You're using the same system throughout your practice.

据我所知，根本没有任何关于为不同目的使用不同系统的讨论。

There's not even that I'm aware of absolutely no discussion on using different systems for different purposes.

它是同一个系统。

It's the same system.

他们只是在争论哪个更好或更差，但整个实践中始终使用的是同一个系统。

They're just arguing if it's better or worse, but it's always the same throughout the entire practice.

对。

Right.

因此，就占星术的四大主要分支——命理占星、本命占星、择时占星和问卜占星而言，一旦占星师选择了某个系统，他们往往会一致地将其应用于所有这些领域。

So in terms of the application to the four major branches of astrology which are mundane astrology, natal astrology, electional and horary, Once an astrologer picks a system, they tend to apply it to all of those consistently.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

为了历史背景，我刚刚想到一个好方法来定位我们当前在占星术历史中的位置：如果你去 astro.com 或 astrodienst，进入他们的扩展星盘选择，会有一个选项可以切换宫位系统，而默认系统是普拉西杜斯，它就显示在顶部。

And just for historical purposes, I just had a good idea to date where we're at right now at this time in terms of the history of astrology which is just if you go to astro.com or astrodienst and you go to their extended chart selection, there's an option where you can switch your house system and the default system that it uses is Placidus, which it has here up at the top.

但此时他们提供的其他系统包括：Coke宫位、Campanus、Regiomontanus、等宫制、从天顶开始的等宫制、空宫制、整宫制、以白羊座为第一宫的整宫制、子午线制、Porphyry宫位、Alcabitius宫位，还有一些其他杂项系统，比如Krunsky、Pisa Golzar、方位角、Morinus宫位、波兰页、VPC、几个版本的Polin、Sripati（这是印度占星系统）、Carter多赤道制，我不清楚那是什么，还有叫sunshine宫位和Savard A宫位的系统。

But the other systems that it gives at this point in time are Coke houses, Campanus, Regiomontanus, equal houses, equal from the Midheaven, the hollow, whole sign houses, whole sign starting with Aries in the first, meridian, Porphyry houses, there's Alcabitius houses, some other miscellaneous systems like Krunsky, Pisa Golzar, Azimuth, Morinus houses, Polish page, VPC, a couple versions of Polin, Sripati which is a Vedic system, Carter Poly Equatorial, I have no idea what that is, something called sunshine houses and something called Savard A houses.

但不管怎样，这些就是他们提供出来的不同宫位划分方式，目的是为了让我们了解当今各种宫位系统的基本标准。

But for whatever it's worth, those are the options in terms of the different forms of house division that they felt like making available or have had demand for in order to just set the stage for what some of the standards are today in terms of different forms of house division.

是的，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

为了我们2021年这个时间点的历史背景，我再调出另一个东西：我可以打开Solar Fire，虽然我不打算展示出来。

And let me just pull up another thing again just for historical purposes for our own point here in 2021, I can pull up astro.com or not astro.com, I can pull up Solar Fire and I won't share it.

但它们提供的不同宫位划分方式包括：Campanus、Coke、子午线、子午线、Placidus、Porphyry、Regiomontanus、Topocentric、等宫制、白羊座零度、太阳星座，还有一些选项是让你把一颗行星放在第一宫，然后从那颗行星推导出其他宫位，整宫制、印度Bhava宫位、Alcabitius，以及大量 Fortune 宫位，差不多就这些了。

But the different forms of house division that they give are Campanus, Coke, meridian, meridian, Placidus, Porphyry, Regiomontanus, topocentric, equal houses, zero Aries, solar sign, then they have a bunch where you just put a planet on the first and do derivative houses from that planet, whole sign houses, Hindu Bhava houses, Alcabitius, a lot of fortune houses and that's pretty much it.

我只是觉得有必要说明一下，目前在各种占星软件中，占星师们常用的主流宫位系统有哪些。

I just thought it would be worth stating in terms of the top systems that are commonly available to astrologers today in the different programs or astrology software programs.

而这些系统中，占星师们真正常用的那些核心系统，我们刚才在概述中已经提到过了。

And most of those, the core ones that astrologers actually use are the ones that we've just gone over in this overview.

是的。

Yeah.

刚才提到的最后一个宫位系统是雷吉奥蒙塔努斯吗？

Was that the last house system Regiomontanus in there?

我也有普拉西杜斯系统。

I have Placidus also.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

那我们就快速过一下这个系统吧。

Let's do that one then really quickly.

在我们开始讨论这些列表之前，有一件奇怪的事是，我不知道为什么它们不是按字母顺序排列的。

One of the strange things just before we start with that of these listings is I have no idea why they are not by alphabetical order.

对。

Right.

我也注意到了。

Noticed that too.

我本来想，不如按流行程度排序，这样我能理解。

One point I thought, well, arrange it by popularity which I would understand.

但其实也不是。

But not really.

所以大多数软件中，宫位系统的排列顺序都很随意，这相当奇怪。

So most software have this random order of house systems which is quite weird.

嗯，我有

Well, I have

不知道为什么。

no idea why.

这是个很好的观点。

That's a good point.

比如 astro.com 把 Placidus 放在最上面，这是他们的默认设置，但接着是 Coke、Campanus、Regiomontanus 和等分法；而 Solar Fire 的顺序是 Campanus、Coke、Meridian、Marinus、Placidus。

So it's like astro.com does Placidus at the top which is their default, but then they do Coke, Campanus, Regiomontanus equal whereas Solar Fire in their order has Campanus, Coke, Meridian, Marinus, Placidus.

这种排序真的很随机。

It is very sort of random.

没错。

Exactly.

比如，Marinus 通常排在最前面，但这是一个非常非常冷门的系统。

For example, Marinus is usually up top and Marinus is a very, very obscure system.

我怀疑现在根本没人用它。

Doubt that there's anyone using it at this point in time.

是的。

Yeah.

确实很冷门。

It is pretty obscure.

好的。

All right.

我得再让你共享一下屏幕。

I'm gonna have to have you share your screen again.

抱歉。

Sorry.

好的。

Okay.

没问题。

No problem.

好的。

All right.

关于音频部分，我们刚才提到的最后一个系统是Regiomontanus，而目前我们还需要提到的最后一个主要系统是Placidus。

And just for the audios, the last system we described is Regiomontanus and then the last major one that we have to mention at this point is Placidus.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，普拉西杜斯系统可以说是前现代世界中的最后一个主要系统。

So, the Placidus system is our last major player in the pre modern world, let's say.

所以，所有这些都属于17世纪，更准确地说是18世纪之前。

So everything that's seventeenth century early than the eighteenth century to be more correct.

普拉西杜斯是个很特别的系统，我们稍后会看到这一点。

Placidus is a strange system and we're going to see that later on.

哦，抱歉，这里出现了一些问题。

Oh, sorry, I had some sort of failure here.

好的。

Okay.

正如我刚才所说，普拉西杜斯系统是我们这里的主要系统，也是早期现代时期的最后一个。

So as I was saying, the Placidus system is our major player here, the last one in the early modern period.

它是个特别的系统，因为其数学计算极其复杂。

And it's a strange system because extremely complicated mathematically.

因此，人们认为自8世纪以来，学者们就已经了解这个系统了。

So it is believed that authors were aware of it since the eighth century.

有一些证据表明，当时的人们心中可能已有这种思想，并且有一些描述似乎指向了普拉西杜斯的方法。

There are some evidences that it could be there in their minds and there are some descriptions of what it seems to be a Placidus approach.

但从数学上来说，这种计算非常复杂。

But it is very complicated to produce mathematically.

因此他们不会去深入研究它。

So they're not going to go into it.

只有当数学发展出简化计算的方程后，他们才得以精确地进行计算。

It's only when mathematic evolves with equations that simplify the calculation that they are able to calculate it with precision.

因此，占星家和天文学家都因为这个原因而避开了它。

So it seems to be avoided by astrologers and so by astronomers because of this.

至少，这是目前历史学家们的看法。

This is at least what historians think at this point.

这个系统的首次描述似乎出现在埃本尼泽的著作中。

The first description of this system appears to be Ebenezer.

埃本尼泽再次将它归功于托勒密、赫尔墨斯、多罗西乌斯、马萨拉，还有其他一些我现在记不起来的人。

And Ebenezer is attributing it again to Ptolemy, Hermes, Dorotheus, Marsala and someone else I don't recall at this point.

但他似乎将这一系统归功于更早的作者。

But he appears to be ascribing it to earlier authors.

有一些数学史家认为，马萨拉在某处描述的是一种看似普拉西杜斯系统的方法。

And there are some historians of mathematics who thinks that Masala is describing something that seems to be a Placidus system somewhere.

我认为这些描述大多不会出现在占星著作中，而是在我们通常不研究的其他数学著作里。

I think most of these descriptions will not be in the astrological works, will be in other mathematical works that we usually do not study.

是的。

Yeah.

通常，

Normally,

因此，这个系统的名称来源于十七世纪。

so the name of the system it comes from the seventeenth century.

他是一位名叫普拉西杜斯·德·蒂图斯或普拉西多·德·蒂蒂的修士、数学教授兼占星家。

He was like a monk and mathematics professor and astrologer named Placidus de Titus or Placido de Titi.

他在大约1650年出版了一部著作，使这种方法广为流传。

And he published a work in like 1650 that popularized that approach.

但我觉得霍尔登说，至少在十二世纪，伊本·以斯拉就已经描述过这种方法了。

But then I think Holden says that it's already described by Ibn Ezra at least by the twelfth century.

然后正如你所说，这种方法可能更早就有，但我还不太确定。

And then as you're saying, it could go back even earlier, but I'm not fully sure.

是的。

Yeah.

而马吉尼比普拉西杜斯早几十年，他也描述了这个系统。

And Magini which is a few decades earlier than Placidus also describes this system as well.

数学家们称这个系统为‘时线系统’，也许这才是更准确的名称。

And what mathematicians call this system and perhaps it's a better name is the hour line system.

我们稍后解释不同数学原理时就会明白为什么叫这个名字，但它确实被称为时线系统。

And we're going to understand exactly why in a moment when we explain the different mathematics, but it's called the hour line system.

而普拉西杜斯的著作如此简洁、呈现得如此清晰，以至于它至少在英语世界成为标准系统。

And then Placidus' work, it's so concise and so well presented that it becomes the standard system at least in the English speaking world.

我认为这也与他的著作被翻译得非常……有关。

And I think that's also to do with the translation that it's done of his work very

还有早期的英文版本，以及一些关于它是否代表古代作者原意的争论，比如托勒密之类的？

Into early English as well as some of the historical arguments about arguing that it represented what the ancient authors intended or other things like that like Ptolemy?

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

这总是如此。

That's always the case.

我认为，每一个体系都会被争论说是原本的、托勒密原本意图的体系，即使这毫无道理。

Every system here I think is going to be argued as being the original, the one that Ptolemy intended, etcetera even when that doesn't make any sense.

很难理解他们是如何得出这个结论的。

It's very difficult to understand how are they getting to that conclusion.

但这种说法总是如此。

But that's always the presentation.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

所以这是历史概述，我认为原本这部分应该只花五分钟，结果却花了七十五分钟。

So that's the historical overview and this is something that I think was supposed to take like a five minute historical overview which turned into seventy five minutes.

那么，现在我们是否该转到讨论这些不同体系如何划分星盘了？

So at this point, should we transition into talking about how these different systems divide the chart?

是的，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

我认为现在是个合适的时机来讨论这个。

I think that would be a good point to do that.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

那么我们继续下面的演示内容。

So let's move on in the presentation.

所以在进入划分之前，我们需要先介绍一些天体力学的概念。

So we have to introduce a few concepts here in terms of celestial mechanics before we go into the divisions.

好的。

Okay.

第一个概念是天球赤道，它是地球赤道向太空的投影，也就是我们所看到的天球上的赤道。

And the first one is the existence of the celestial equator which is a projection of the Earth's own equator into space so in celestial sphere in the sky that we see.

由于这模拟了地球的自转，我们接下来会看到，所有天体的运动都会沿着赤道进行。

And because this is emulating the Earth's rotation, every movement of every celestial object will follow as we're going to see here the equator.

它们总是平行于赤道移动，因此会从东方升起，在我们称为子午线的线上达到中天，然后在西方落下，之后在子午线另一侧再次达到反中天，经过24小时后又从东方重新升起，这就是所谓的主运动或周日运动。

It will always move parallel to the equator so it will rise, it will culminate in the line that we call the meridian and then it will set in the west and it will do again the anti culmination again at the meridian and then again rise in the east after twenty four hours which is called the primary or diurnal movement.

因此，天穹中的每一个点都会在24小时内，即地球自转周期内，始终平行于赤道完成一次转动。

So every point in the heavens is going to do this turn always parallel to the equator in twenty four hours which is the Earth's rotation.

这是地球自转所产生的现象及其结果。

So it's the phenomenon, the result of the phenomenon of Earth's rotation.

好的。

Okay.

这一点最直观的体现就是太阳每天早晨从东方升起，中午时分达到最高点，然后在傍晚从西方落下。

So this is most easily visualized with just thinking about how the Sun rises each morning in the East and then eventually culminates in the middle of the day and then eventually sets in the evening in the West.

到了半夜时分，太阳到达对跖点，第二天同一时间（24小时后）再次从东方升起。

And then eventually around the middle of the night, it reaches the anti culmination and then eventually it rises again the next day twenty four hours later.

但这种主要运动并不仅限于太阳，月亮也会升起、达到最高点并落下，天空中的其他所有行星和恒星每天都会经历同样的升起、中天和落下的过程。

But that process of the primary motion, it's not just the Sun that does that, but also the Moon will rise and culminate and set and all of the other planets and stars in the sky will do the same motion of rising and culminating and setting each day.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

因此，所有的天体都会进行这种运动。

So the entire celestial objects will do this movement.

这非常重要，因为这是我们很容易观察到的运动。

So this is going to be very important because this is the movement that we can observe very easily.

然而，要观察行星在黄道十二宫中的运动却很困难，而作为占星师，我们通常关注的是这些宫位的解释。

So it's difficult to observe planetary motion in the signs which is where we're usually focused as astrologers in terms of interpretation.

但如果你只是站几个小时观察星星或太阳，亲身感受太阳，你就能看到它移动得非常快。

But this is what we observe every day if you just stand a few hours looking at the stars or looking at the Sun, experiencing the Sun, you can see that it moves moving very fast.

对。

Right.

所以这是两种主要运动之一。

So this is one of the two major movements.

其中一种运动是行星沿着黄道或通过黄道十二宫移动，但它们通常移动得非常缓慢。

So one of the movements is the planets moving along the ecliptic or through the signs of the zodiac, but they tend to do that very slowly.

即使最快的行星，相对于恒星背景而言，也移动得相当缓慢，你需要长时间外出观察才能看到它们的位置变化。

Even the fastest planets tend to move through the zodiac relatively slowly so that you to go outside and view them over really long periods of time in order to see any movement against the backdrop of the stars.

但第二种运动，也就是我们所说的主运动或周日运动，每天都会在24小时内发生。

But this second movement which is actually what we call primary or diurnal movement happens every day over a twenty four hour period.

每个行星、恒星和其他天体基本上都在一天一夜内完成一次完整的运动。

Each of the planets and stars and other celestial bodies do a complete movement in basically a day and a night.

是的，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

好的。

Okay.

因此，黄道或黄道上的星座也会发生完全相同的运动。

So the ecliptic or the signs in the ecliptic is going to do this very same movement.

所有星座都会在二十四小时内升起、中天、落下、反中天，然后再升起。

All signs will rise, culminate, set, anti culminate and rise again in twenty four hours.

所以在二十四小时内，黄道会完成这一运动。

So in twenty four hours, the ecliptic is going to do this motion.

但由于地球轨道的倾斜，黄道会略微偏离。

But the ecliptic because of the tilt in Earth's orbit is going to be slightly off.

它与赤道存在偏差，这解释了季节的变化，因为太阳在一年中不同时间所处的星座位置会导致其高度不同。

There's a deviation from the equator which what explains the seasons because the Sun will have different heights according to the sign where it is at a given moment of the year.

这解释了为什么某些星座升起得更快，以及它们在世界不同地区升起和落下的差异。

It explains why certain signs rise faster than others and the difference in their rising and setting in different areas of the world.

这将解释我们在观察星盘运转和全天星盘变化时所看到的许多现象。

This is going to explain a lot of the phenomenon we observe throughout the turning of charts and seeing how charts move throughout the day.

这将确定这些点，而我们这里并不特指任何一种系统。

And this is going to set these points and here we're not talking about anyhow system in particular.

这是一种非常通用的说法：上升点始终是黄道上在东方升起的点，下降点则是西方落下、与之相对的点。

This is a very generic way of saying an Ascendant will always be the point of the ecliptic that's rising in the east, the Descendant the one that's setting in the west which is the opposite point.

中天或MC是某一时刻正在天顶经过的黄道度数。

The Midheaven or the MC is going to be the degree of the ecliptic that's culminating at a given moment.

当然，天底或IC，也被称为地球之角，是与之相对、在该时刻处于天底的黄道度数。

And of course, the IC also known as the angle of Earth is going to be the opposing degree which is anti culminating at that point.

正是从这一结构中，出现了宫位划分的概念。

And it's from this structure that the idea of house divisions appears.

对。

Right.

请稍等，再深入说说最后一个点。

And just hold on to linger on that last one for a moment.

这不仅仅意味着太阳每天早晨从东方地平线升起，傍晚又在西方落下。

So it's not just that the Sun rises over the eastern horizon each morning and then sets in the west each evening.

而且不仅仅是其他行星在一天中的某个时刻从东方地平线升起、在西方落下，黄道十二星座也会每天升起、经过天顶、最终落下。

And it's not just that the other planets rise over the eastern horizon at some point during the day and culminate in the set, but also the signs that the zodiac will rise up and emerge over the eastern horizon and then eventually culminate overhead and then eventually set each day as well.

这就是上升星座的概念，它引出了上升点的概念，而我们之所以这样称呼它，正是基于这个原因。

That's the concept of the rising sign and that gives rise to the concept of the Ascendant and it's because we call it that.

我们称之为上升星座或上升点，是因为它正是在出生时刻或你所关注的任何特定时刻，真正从东方地平线升起的黄道星座。

We call it the rising sign or the Ascendant because that's the sign of the zodiac that literally rises up or emerges over the eastern horizon at either the moment of birth in a birth chart or at whatever that moment is that you're cast in the chart for.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

因此，我们所有天体运行的机制都源于这种运动——它带动了黄道、星座和行星在24小时内持续运转。

So all our mechanics of the heavens comes from this motion that drags the ecliptic so the zodiac and the planets which are moving in there in twenty four hours throughout the time.

甚至在模拟手表中，时针的移动也完全遵循这种运动。

Even in watches, analog watches, the moving of the pointers of the hour follows exactly this motion.

因此，顺时针和逆时针的运动起源于天文运动。

So the clockwise and anti clockwise motion has its origin in the astronomical movement.

这再次模拟了你每天观察天空时所能体验到的现象。

It's emulating again what is observable by experience when you look at the heavens daily.

对。

Right.

我们能再回放一下星座的动画吗？倒着放一次？

Could we go back and look at that animation again of the signs just one backwards?

因为这样能清楚地看到黄道十二宫是如何依次升起的，从而真正理解上升星座这个概念——这正是宫位起始的根本依据，即确定哪个星座正在东方地平线上升起或浮现，然后将其定格。

Just because that's so useful to see the signs of the zodiac and how they rise over the horizon in order to really understand that concept of the rising sign which is really that's the fundamental basis of where the houses start is just with that notion of identifying what is the sign that is rising or emerging on the eastern horizon and then you freeze it.

比如，这里双子座正在升起，它就成为上升点。

Like for example, here Gemini is rising and that becomes the Ascendant.

但有时让人困惑的是，昼夜运动是顺时针方向的，而行星在黄道十二宫中运行的方向却相反，是逆时针。

But something that trips people up sometimes is the fact that the diurnal motion, it moves like you were saying clockwise whereas the planets move through the signs of the zodiac the opposite direction which is counterclockwise.

逆时针。

Counterclockwise.

有趣的是，这导致了一个细微的差异：我们实际上根据星座的运行方向以及行星在黄道十二宫中移动的方向来编号宫位。

And what's interesting about that is that leads to a little discrepancy then where we actually number the houses based on the direction of the signs and the direction of the movement of the planets through the signs of the zodiac.

所以你从上升点开始，它成为第一宫，然后依次向下进入第二宫、第三宫，以此类推。

So you start with the Ascendant becomes the first house and then you go downwards towards the second house then the third house and so on and so forth.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我们将在下一个动画中清楚地看到这一点。

We're going to see that exactly in the next animation.

我可能要继续播放这个动画了。

I might go forward with that.

好。

Yeah.

所以让我们想象某种划分方式。

So let's imagine a division of some sort.

这并不代表任何特定系统，只是简单地进行划分——正如你刚才说的，克里斯。

This is not representing any system, it's just dividing simply by Again, here we see what you were saying, Chris.

编号的方向与运动方向相反，很可能是因为最先升起的是第一段，接着是第二段升起，然后是第三段或第三个升起的星座，以此类推。

The numbering is made in the opposite direction of the movement most likely because it's going to be the first segment that rises, the second segment that rises, the third segment or the third sign that rises, etcetera.

它遵循的是星座升起的顺序。

It's following the sequence of rising of the plan.

所以，位于第十二宫的任何事物都已经升起过了，因此在下一次完整旋转之前不会再升起。

So whatever it's in the twelfth has already risen, so it's not going to rise for another complete rotation.

对。

Right.

这也是

That is the also

因为在全相位系统中，作为最早出现的系统之一，一旦确定了上升星座，你就从那里开始按黄道顺序依次编号。

because in the whole sign system because to whatever extent that was one of the earliest systems, once you establish the rising sign, then you just number the signs in zodiacal order from there downwards.

因为这就是星座的顺序，这也可能是为什么宫位也按这个顺序排列的原因。

Because that's the order of the signs, that's also probably why that's the order of the houses as well.

是的，没错。

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

这是从上升星座开始计数。

It's the counting from the rising sign.

是的。

Yeah.

那么，抱歉，

And so what's Sorry,

让我插一句。

just to interject.

但有趣的是，可能存在一种更早的埃及传统系统，基于分至星（decans），他们会观察上升的分至星——也就是黄道上约10度的区域，看哪个分至星正在上升，然后向下依次编号。

But what's interesting about that is there was possibly an earlier system from the Egyptian tradition based on the decans where they would look at the rising decan which is like a 10 degree area of space where the Ascendant was and they'd look at which decan was rising, the number that going downwards as well.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

我们必须意识到，这与时间的测量也有联系。

We have to think that this is connected also to the measurement of time.

因此，时间的测量、对天文运动的理解以及占星术，对天体运动的解读，最初都融合为一个整体。

So the measurement of time, the understanding of astronomical motion and astrology, the interpretation of celestial motion, everything is connected into one single entity initially.

因此，十度区不仅在解释层面有关，也与时间的计算相关。

So the decans have also to do with not only interpretation wise but also to the counting of time.

所以，什么在上升，什么在中天，你可以或多或少地通过数量或质量来衡量时间，当你做出判断时。

So what's rising, what's culminating so you can more or less measure time being it measured in terms of quantity or measuring in terms of quality when you're making the judgment.

是的，这很清楚。

Yeah, that's quite clear.

但有趣的是，这些曾经是来自几乎不同占星传统的独立参考系统：美索不达米亚人专注于黄道带和行星沿黄道通过黄道十二宫的运动，而埃及人则关注哪个十度区在不同时间点上升、中天或落下。

Although it's interesting that these were separate reference systems from almost different astrological traditions at one point where you have the Mesopotamians who were really focused on the zodiac and the movement of the planets around the ecliptic and through the signs of the zodiac versus you have the Egyptians focusing on the decans and which decan was rising or culminating or setting at different points.

而我们在这里看到的是，大约从公元前一世纪开始，这两种独立的参考体系被融合为一个系统，即黄道十二宫与昼夜运动被整合为一种统一的方法。

And then what we see here basically starting in the first century BCE was the synthesis of those two separate reference points into one system where you get the signs of the zodiac and the diurnal movement synthesized or fused into one approach.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为我们在很多方面都能看到这一点。

I think we see that in a lot of qualities.

如果我们观察占星术，它似乎是多种传统融合而成的体系，之后又独立发展起来。

If we look at astrology, appears to be a mix of several traditions that start to be combined into a whole system that then develops by itself.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

所以在这里，如果我们这样划分，这就是宫头。

So here we have, so this is going to be the cusps if we're dividing it by that way.

对。

Right.

一旦你确定了四个角，就可以进行划分

Once you've established the four angles then A division

某种四分法，

four of some sort,

是的。

yeah.

对。

Right.

那个圆的四个部分被再分成四等份，然后这些部分又被分成三等份。

The four quarters of that circle get divided into quarters and then those quarters get divided into thirds basically.

是的。

Yeah.

这里描述的是一种大致的等宫制。

Here what we see described as a sort of equal house system very roughly.

这没有天文价值，因为它没有对应任何特定的时间。

This doesn't have any astronomical value because it's not projecting any specific time.

它只是解释了它是如何运行的。

It's just an explanation of how it moves.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们已经

So we've

看，这里又是星座在各个宫位中移动。

got So here we are, the signs moving throughout the houses again.

如果你把这些空间看作是被移动的，或者认为是星座本身在运行过程中形成了宫位，这些空间就会随之变化。

These spaces are going to be moved upon if you consider them as spaces or if you consider that it's the signs themselves create the houses as they go.

所以这就是这个概念。

So this is the idea.

你有

You've got

十二个黄道星座和十二个宫位。

12 signs of the zodiac and 12 houses.

是的，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

所以显然这里存在一种联系。

So there's a connection there evidently.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

现在我们开始探讨宫位系统的问题，这将涉及划分的问题。

Now we come to starting to approach the problem of the house systems which is going to be the matter of division.

因此，我将以里斯本纬度上升五度金牛座为例，因为这是我最初准备的例子。

So if we consider and I'm going to use the example of five degrees of Taurus rising for the latitude of Lisbon because that was the example I had prepared initially.

如果我们将五度金牛座作为上升点，那么与该点成90度的位置将是五度水瓶座。

So if we consider that five degrees of Taurus is rising, the 90 degree position to that point is going to be five degrees Aquarius.

因此，水瓶座将是沿着黄道从上升度数测量的正好九十度的位置。

So Aquarius will be the point that is exactly nine degrees from the ascending degrees measured in the ecliptic.

然而，由于赤道——即上升和下降运动发生的地方——是运动的载体、运动的源头，这里会出现一个差异。

However, because we have a discrepancy between the equator which is where the movement of rising and setting is being made, it's the motor, the motion, the origin of the motion, there's going to be a discrepancy here.

如果我们以黄道测量90度，和以赤道测量90度，结果会不同。

If we measure 90 degrees in the ecliptic, it's going to be different if we measure 90 degrees in the equator.

因此，在这个纬度下，赤道上的90度相当于黄道上的105度。

So 90 degrees in the equator, it's going to equivalent in this case for this latitude to a 105 in the ecliptic.

所以，中天并不是在五度水瓶座，而是在你观测天空区域正中央的子午线上，这个位置在里斯本的纬度下对应的是二十度摩羯座。

Then you don't have the MC at five degree Aquarius, you have at the meridian so that line in the center of your observation area in the sky, it's going to equate to twenty degrees Capricorn at the latitude of Lisbon.

因此，在不同的纬度下，这个数值会有所不同。

So in a different latitude, it will have a different value.

所以，这是第一个问题。

So here it is one of the first problems.

当我们说要划分四分之一区域时，我们是在划分黄道、赤道，还是其他东西？

So when we are saying that we are dividing the quadrant, are we dividing the ecliptic, are we dividing the equator or something else?

这一点在最近的实践者传统中引发了大量讨论，因为水瓶座的这个五度位置被称为‘九十里’。

And this has been a discussion that's come up a lot recently in the practitioners tradition because that point in Aquarius, that five degree Aquarius is going to be what is called the nonagesimal.

也就是距离上升点90度的黄道点。

So the point of the ecliptic that is 90 degrees from the Ascendant.

因此，它是相对于上升点、处于最高位置的点。

So it's going to be the point in reference to the Ascendant that's going to be at the highest level.

然而，它并不是位于我们观测场中心的点。

However, it's not the point that's going to be at the center of our observation field.

所以子午线始终在南方，这一点我们将在图中看到。

So the meridian is always south as we're going to see in the diagram.

因此，当你面向南方并试图理解白昼运动的精确点时，中天就是事物达到顶点的位置。

So if you're watching south and you're trying to understand the exact point, the midterm of the diurnal movement, the Midheaven will be the point where things are culminating.

因此，这里存在一个差异，但它并不一定是沿着黄道从上升点测量的90度。

So there is this difference, but it's not going to be necessarily the 90 degree from the Ascendant measured in the ecliptic.

这至少在初期会带来一些困扰。

And this is going to cause some trouble at least early on.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

宫位划分的根本问题在于如何划分圆周，以及使用何种方法将十二宫进行划分。

Fundamental issue with house division is just how to divide the circle and what method to use to divide the houses into 12 secondtors.

此外，还涉及以上升点作为计算宫位的起点，以及对中天的使用——你如何定义中天，是子午线还是精确90度的非吉西马尔，诸如此类的问题。

And then there becomes an issue also about the use of the Ascendant as the starting point for calculating the houses and then also the use of the Midheaven and what you consider to be the Midheaven and whether it's the meridian or whether it's the nonagesimal which is exactly 90 degrees or what have you.

嗯。

Mhmm.

没错。

Exactly.

我喜欢这个图表，部分原因是您将上升点以下的下半部分涂成了棕色，因为从观察者的视角来看，上升-下降轴以下的任何部分实际上都位于地球之下；你需要想象自己站在图表的中心，任何位于上升-下降轴以下的区域都在地平线以下或地球之下，而轴以上的任何区域则在地平线以上，位于天空中，基本上可见于图表的上半部分。

I like this diagram partially because you've colored the bottom half below the Ascendant brown because anything below the Ascendant Descendant axis is actually below the Earth from the perspective of the observer where you kind of have to imagine you're standing in the middle of the chart, any chart that you're looking at and anything in the bottom half of the chart at least below the exact degrees of the Ascendant Descendant axis is below the horizon or below the Earth and anything above the Ascendant Descendant axis is above the horizon and is in the sky and is visible in the top half of the chart basically.

是的，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

那么关于子午线，您还有其他幻灯片可以解释或进一步说明吗？

So with the meridian, you have any other slides to explain the meridian or to dwell on that?

我不确定这是否清楚，现在是不是该切换到像Stellarium这样的工具来展示一下呢？

I'm not sure if that's clear or would this be a good time to switch to something like Stellarium to show Yeah.

子午线是指什么？

What meridian

我们切换到Stellarium，换种方式来看一下吧。

Let's switch to Stellarium and see this in another way.

我来新建一个视图。

Let me do here a new chair.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们现在看到的，和之前图表中展示的内容是一样的，只不过这里用的是投影方式，蓝色部分是赤道，这是针对里斯本纬度的。

So here we are seeing the same thing that we have been seeing in these diagrams but here with the projection in where we can see in blue the equator, this is again for the latitude of Lisbon.

橙色部分是黄道。

In orange, we are seeing the ecliptic.

这里是太阳、水星和金星，可以看到这些行星都紧贴着黄道。

Here it is the Sun, Mercury and Venus see the planets very close to the ecliptic degree.

好的。

Okay.

我们来

Let's

再深入讲一下这一点。

dwell on that point.

所以，正如我们在这里看到的，黄道——我们之前没有真正定义过它——是从我们地球上的视角看到的太阳和其他行星的运行路径。

So the ecliptic then as we can see here is because we didn't really define what that is earlier is the path of the Sun and the other planets from our vantage point around Earth.

而且这实际上是一条非常精确的路径，或者像一条带子，行星都沿着这条特定的路径在天空中移动。

And it's actually a very strict path or sort of like a band where they stay on the specific path where they move through the sky.

古代天文学家和观星者正是通过这一点来识别行星的：你能看到它们像一些小星星一样移动，而不是像其他恒星那样固定不动，而是沿着这条严格的预设路径移动，这条路径就是黄道，后来被称为黄道十二宫。

And that's actually how ancient astronomers and sky observers first identified the planets is that you can see them moving as these little stars that will instead of staying fixed like the other fixed stars, they actually start moving across this very strict predefined path which is the ecliptic or what later became known as the zodiac.

没错。

Exactly.

而在这里，因为我们使用的是天文学软件而不是占星学软件，所以你看到的是度数。

And here because we're having an astronomy program and not an astrology program, you're seeing degrees.

我们在这里看到，120度对应的是狮子座，150度对应的是处女座的起点，即零度处女座，180度是零度天秤座，正好位于赤道上，也就是黄道与赤道的交点。

A 120 degrees we see there where the Sun is, is equivalent to Leo, a 150 is equivalent to the beginning of Virgo so zero Virgo, a 180 is zero Libra which is right on the equator so it's where the ecliptic and the equator intercept.

它会位于零度天秤座和零度白羊座，因此它们被称为昼夜平分点。

It's going to be in zero Libra and zero Aries so that's why they are called the equinoxes.

所以当太阳位于这个位置时，白天和黑夜的时长相等；而当太阳偏离这个位置时，比如在这个北半球的例子中，太阳在黄道上位于赤道以北，它的运行轨迹就会更长。

So when the Sun's there, there is an equal amount of day and night and when the Sun is off that, so in this case for example, this is a northern hemisphere, the Sun is above the equator in the ecliptic so it will take longer to do its path.

因此，太阳在一天中会沿着一条轨迹运行，从东边附近升起，然后沿着一条与赤道平行的路径移动，最后在西边偏北的位置落下。

So the Sun will make a path of trajectory throughout the day to rise somewhere here near the East and will follow a trajectory which is more or less parallel to Well, it's not more or less, it's parallel to the equator and then it's going to set somewhere here at the north of the West.

因为太阳位于赤道以北，它在天空中停留的时间更长，所以我们白天更长，夜晚更短。

Because it's above, it's going to spend more time in the sky so we have longer days and shorter nights.

只有当太阳精确位于赤道交点时。

It's only when it is exactly in the interception in the Equator.

在108度或零度位置，即零度天秤座和零度白羊座时，太阳的轨迹才会精确地沿着正东到正西方向运行，因此昼夜等长，因为它的路径在地平线以上和以下均匀分布。

In this one hundred and eight degrees or in zero degrees, that zero Libra and zero Aries that the trajectory will follow east and west exactly so the day and night are equal because it is equal distribute according to the horizon or to the below and the above.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

所以你提到的一个观点是，回归黄道本质上是从春分点开始测量的空间角度，即从白羊座零度开始，也就是黄道的起点。

So one of the points you're making was that the tropical zodiac is basically a measurement of space or a number of degrees that's measured out from the spring equinox from zero degrees of Aries which is zero degrees or the starting point of the ecliptic.

那么这里我们实际上看到的是270度吗？

And here we actually have What is two seventy?

我正快速心算一下，因为大约有270度的黄道正在升起。

I'm trying to count that up really quickly because we have about two seventy of the ecliptic is rising.

它并不正好在东方。

It's not exactly east.

那是

That's

是摩羯座的另一个点。

one It's of the other Capricorn.

是的，是摩羯座的早期。

Yeah, it's early Capricorn.

270度，就是零度摩羯座。

Two seventy, it's zero Capricorn.

好的。

Okay.

所以在这一时刻，上升的可能是二三度摩羯座。

So that's going to be probably two, three Capricorn rising at this particular point in time.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

这是一点有趣的地方。

So that's one interesting piece.

而这就是使宫位划分变得复杂的原因之一：黄道并不总是在正东方向，而是有时会波动，有时偏北，有时偏南。

And this is one of the things that complicates the house division issue is that the ecliptic isn't always exactly due east, but sometimes it fluctuates and can be more north or south basically at different times.

是的。

Yeah.

从运动的角度来看，这就是我们的网格。

In terms of the motion, this is our grid.

子午线正好在中间，所以运动的一半发生在到达子午线之前，另一半则发生在经过子午线之后。

You have the meridian right on the middle, so half the motion until it hits the meridian and the second half of the motion will occur after it hits the meridian.

我们看到的绿色半圆弧被称为地平经圈。

The green semi arc that we see there, it's called the prime vertical.

我们现在先不看这个。

Let's not look at that at this point.

我稍后会解释它是什么。

I'll explain what it is later on.

但如果我们播放动画，可能会更容易理解。

But if we animate it, perhaps it's easier.

让我检查一下。

Let me check

如果我能播放动画的话

if Let I can animate