占星学中的木星：含义与象征

当然。

Definitely.

比如，当它经过某个宫位时，像是经过你的第十宫，你可能会辞职去追求自主创业，获得突然成为自己老板的那种自由感。

Like in, for example, a house that it's transiting through, for example, like, I don't know, going through your tenth house and maybe quitting a job in order to pursue being self employed or something and having that sense of freedom of suddenly being your own boss.

是的。

Yeah.

而且据我这些年来观察数百位客户的星盘，我觉得木星还会拓宽你的认知。

And I think the other thing that I've observed about Jupiter over the years, you know, looking at hundreds of clients charts too, is he he broadens your understanding.

这种认知的某些方面可能一开始显得古怪，或者让人难以理解。

And some measure of that understanding might seem quizzical or it doesn't make sense at first.

例如，很多人期待木星进入第二宫时会立刻带来横财。

So for instance, many people have the expectation when Jupiter goes to their second house that it becomes an immediate windfall.

对吧？

Right?

他们会想，哦，我要发财了，还要加薪。

And it's like, oh, I'm gonna get money, and then I'm gonna have a raise.

这种情况并不经常发生，我不会说从不。

And that doesn't frequently I won't say it never.

我的意思是，但经常确实是这样。

I mean but frequently proved to be the case.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但我观察到的是，当你更深入地了解你的学生，或者甚至通过我自己的观察，似乎与你对财务的理解或认知扩展有关。

But what I have observed when I, you know, grow student you know, clients a little more or, you know, even my own observation, it seems correlative to where there's an understanding or broadening of understanding related to your finances

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如你如何思考你的投资或处理相关事务。

You know, or how you might think about your investments or working things through.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以有时，是的，它确实会转化为实际的财务收益。

So sometimes, yet, yes, it does translate into actual boons in terms of financial resources.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但我认为，更多时候，木星也带来某种理解，而这种理解可以是一种解脱，甚至是一种释放。

But I think more often than not, Jupiter also brings a certain understanding, and then that understanding can be a relief and even a release.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这一点。

I like that.

所以，尽管木星的一些核心含义可能是成长和扩张，也就是说，它在经过的任何宫位中都能使事物在物质层面增长和扩展，但木星还有另一面，非常哲学且富有神学意味。

So even though maybe some of its core signification is like growth and expansion, so it can grow and expand things, materially speaking in whatever house it's going through, Jupiter also has this other side that's very philosophical and very theological.

有时，这种成长可能更偏向内在，甚至在某种意义上更偏向精神层面。

And sometimes the growth can be more internal or almost more spiritual in some sense.

对。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

不错。

Nice.

我喜欢这个。

I like that.

瓦伦斯在这里提到的一点很有趣，那就是联盟和友谊是积极的，而与某人成为敌人，或友谊破裂、断裂，则是相反的情况，是的。

One thing that Valens is mentioning here that's interesting is alliances and friendship as being like a positive thing and and that being the opposite of like being enemies with somebody or having a friendship be like split apart or broken or something like Yeah.

友谊在大多数情况下无疑是一种福气。

Friendship is definitely a boon more often than not.

但他可能也在强调，木星拥有很高的恩宠，并且其喜悦落在第十一宫，即善灵宫。

But what he might be also drawing on is that Jupiter is, he actually has high favor and has his joy in eleventh house in the house of the good daemon.

对。

Right.

因此，第十一宫与友谊、同伴关系以及伙伴有关。

And so the eleventh house has the signification related to friendship and fellowship and, you know, associates.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我觉得，从被善待、拥有朋友的角度来看，这是有道理的。

So I think it it makes sense in terms of, you know, being well met, having friends

嗯。

Mhmm.

你知道，体验这种恩惠，不仅从行星的一般象征意义来看，而且对瓦伦斯和许多其他希腊占星家来说，确实会特别借助宫位的象征意义。

You know, experiencing that boon, not just in terms of the general signification of the planet, but then of course, especially it was true for Valens and many other Hellenistic astrologists to draw on the significations related to the the houses.

对。

Right.

当然。

Definitely.

是的。

Yeah.

这是个非常重要的事情。

That's a huge thing.

在我们继续讨论瓦伦之前，我想提到的最后一件事是，他非常重视子女和生育问题。

And then the last thing I wanted to mention before we move on from Valens I thought was interesting is he puts a great upfront the beginning of children and childbirth.

在一些希腊化时期的占星家看来，他们确实非常强调木星与子女、生育或生育开端的关联，但我觉得这种关联在后来的传统中并没有被如此强调。

In some of the Hellenistic astrologers, they really emphasize this isn't I don't feel like this is emphasized as much in the later tradition, the associations of Jupiter with children or childbearing or the beginning of children.

但我认为这可能与神话传统有关。

But I think this might be something that might be coming through the mythology or something.

因为对瓦伦来说，他实际上用希腊语称其为‘宙斯之星’。

Because of course, for Valens, he says Actually, in the Greek, says the star of Zeus.

他并没有使用‘木星’这个词。

He doesn't say Jupiter.

那是我们后来对罗马词汇的借用。

That's like our later appropriation of the Roman word.

但对于希腊-罗马时期的占星家来说，他们谈论的是宙斯。

But for the Greco Roman astrologers, they're talking about Zeus.

我不禁想，那些与宙斯相关的神话——比如他风流成性、四处留情——是否在他们思考这颗行星时，潜移默化地影响了他们的理解。

And I wonder if some of those That mythology associated with the Zeus where he he sort of got around a lot, so to speak, wasn't in, like, the back of of some of their minds when they think about that planet.

此外，这种古典思维一直延续到十九世纪，认为孩子就是财富。

Well, also, think it's the classical mindset that was true even up until the nineteenth century, which is that children were wealth.

你知道，对于我们这些出生于二十世纪并进入二十一世纪的人来说，孩子作为独立个体、拥有人格的观念其实还很新。

You know, one of the things that we can appreciate in the you know, for those born in the twentieth and then going into the twenty first century is that the idea of children being their own person and personhood, that's still fairly new.

嗯。

Mhmm.

从人们对孩子的看法来看，也许孩子比牲畜稍微高一点。

You know, more in terms of how people perceive children, you know, maybe a little above cattle.

我知道这听起来很残酷，但确实，人们期望孩子不仅能延续家族血脉，还能在经营生意、管理农场等各方面提供实际支持。

I know that may sound brutal, but it's also the idea that, you know, children were you had the expectation that children would help not only lengthen your line, but also even provide tangible support in terms of the managing of businesses, the managing of farms, all these different things.

所以，拥有孩子实际上就是拥有财富。

So to have children was actually to have wealth.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

延续一个人的遗产和家族血脉

And the continuation of one's legacy and family line

正确。

Correct.

血统传承，相反的情况则是家族血脉中断或没有多余的人在家分担负担，Mhmm。

Lineage as opposed to, let's say, the opposite of that would be the end of one's lineage or family line or not having extra people around the house to help with the burden of Mhmm.

不管家庭工作是什么，或者类似的事情。

Whatever the family job, family work is or something.

是的。

Yeah.

Mhmm。

Mhmm.

没错。

Exactly.

因为那样的话，你知道，财富不仅来自孩子提供的劳动力，尤其在不同文化背景下，还涉及嫁妆等与生女儿或儿子相关的各种因素。

Because then, you know, it it it could bring wealth not just in terms of the labor that children offer, but especially if you're going depending on the culture, you know, measures of dowries and different things associated, whether you had a daughter or whether you had a son.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我们得看看这种情况是否会持续，以及会持续多久。

So that's one thing we'll have to see if that continues or how long that continues.

这很有趣。

It's interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

所以是后面那些。

So the later ones.

那我们继续讲阿布·马沙尔吧。

So let's move on to Abu Ma'shar.

这是本·戴克斯新翻译的版本。

This from Ben's new translation by Ben Dykes.

他刚刚从阿拉伯语重新翻译了阿布·马沙尔的《占星学导论》。

He just retranslated The Great Introduction to Astrology by Abu Ma'shar from the Arabic.

阿布·马沙尔是九世纪最著名的占星家之一。

Abu Ma'shar is one of the most famous astrologers from the ninth century.

他原本是一位宗教学者，晚年与著名的哲学家占星家阿尔·金迪发生了争执。

He was like a religious scholar who got in an argument later in life with the famous philosopher astrologer Al Kindi.

阿尔·金迪不知怎么诱使阿布·马沙尔去研究占星学，这听起来非常像木星式的做法。

And Al Kindi somehow got Abu Ma'shar to look into astrology, like baited him into it, which sounds like a very sort of Jupiterian type.

而且是在他的木星回归期间。

And it was at his Jupiter return.

是吗？

Oh, was it?

我认为是在他的第四次木星回归时。

I think it was at his fourth Jupiter return.

没错。

That's right.

因为他实际上确实是，我想是这样的，不过没错。

Because he actually was I think it was, but yeah.

我非常确定我读到过，要么是第二次，但确实是在他的木星回归期间。

I'm pretty sure I read that either it was a second, but it was during his Jupiter return.

我从未忘记过这一点。

I never forgot that.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

所以他曾经是一位宗教学者，你可以从他的写作中看到这一点，因为他以极其冗长著称。

So so he was a former religious scholar, you can see that's come through sometimes with his writing because he's he's famously very verbose.

他的书都非常长且用词繁复。

His books are very long and very wordy.

所以他在这里有一段关于木星意义的非常长的摘录。

So he actually has a very long excerpt here on the significations of Jupiter.

这是本的新译本《That's》的封面。

Here's the cover of Ben's new translation of That's

一本好书。

a great book.

精彩的引言，封面源自阿拉伯语，很漂亮。

Great introduction, nice cover from the Arabic.

你想读其中一部分吗？还是我们轮流来？

Do you wanna read like part of this or we could switch off?

你来决定。

It's up to you.

好的。

Yeah.

我可以读，如果我累了，就换你来。

I can If I get tired, then I'll pass it on to you.

好的。

Okay.

我要调整一下。

I'm gonna adjust this.

好了。

Alright.

我来移动它。

I move it.

好的。

Okay.

我们开始吧。

Here we go.

好了。

There.

至于木星，它的性质是温暖、湿润、多气、温和的。

As for Jupiter, his nature is heating, wet, airy, temperate.

他象征着滋养生命之灵魂、滋养生命之动物躯体、子女、孙辈、胚胎、学者、法律专家，公正地裁决人与人之间的纠纷，验证、理解、智者、解梦的诠释、真诚、真理、宗教、崇拜、谦逊、虔诚、敬畏神明、统一、对宗教的洞察、正直、坚韧，这样的人将受到赞誉并拥有良好的声誉。

He indicates the soul which nourishes life, animal bodies which nourishes life, animal bodies, children, the children of children, embryos, scholars, legal experts, making judgments between people acting justly, verification, understanding, sages, the inter interpretation of dreams, sincerity, truth, religion, worship, modesty, piety, reverence being God fearing, unification, insight into religion, uprightness, endurance, and such a man will be praised and have a good reputation.

他象征着苦难。

And he indicates suffering.

坚韧与忍耐。

Endurance and tolerance.

热情，有时则表现为鲁莽与急躁，他会在经历长久的忍耐后，变得轻率而危及自身。

Zeal and sometimes recklessness, and haste will befall him and endangering himself after his being unhurried in the endurance.

他象征着繁荣、成功、对所有抵抗他之人的挫败、尊严、领导力、权威、国王、贵族与强者、好运的宏大、安逸与愉悦、对财富的渴望、积累财富并从中获利、富裕以及在奢华与富足中境遇的优越；他的精神在每件事上都将幸运，品性良好；他象征着施舍、慷慨、赠予、大方，以及为此自夸、灵魂不受拘束、情感真挚、热爱领导城市中的人群、喜爱有影响力者与伟人，倾向他们并帮助人们解决问题。

And he indicates prosperity, success, defeat for all who resist him, dignity, leadership, authority, kings, the nobles and the mighty, the greatness of one's good luck, comfort and delight, a desire for assets and collecting them as well as exploiting them for profit, riches and the goodness of one's condition in luxury and wealth, and his spirit will be lucky in every matter, and his character good, and it indicates charitable giving, generosity, granting, being open handed, as well as boasting about it, being unrestrained in his soul, sincerity of affection, a love of leadership over the people of cities, and a love of those having importance as well as great people, and an inclination towards them and assisting the people in things.

他象征着对建筑与宏伟居所的热爱，这些居所人丁兴旺，对事物的洞察、信守承诺、履行所托、宽容、幽默、玩笑、美感、装饰、娇媚、喜悦、欢笑、言语丰富、口才出众。

And he indicates the love of building and magnificent dwellings filled with people, insight into things, fidelity in one's commitments, fulfilling what one is entrusted with, being indulgent, fun, jokes, beauty, adornment, coquettishness, joy, laughter, an abundance of speech, eloquence of the tongue.

所有与他相遇的人都会喜爱他，他象征着频繁的性行为、热爱良善、憎恶邪恶、使人与人之间和平相处、倡导有益之事、禁止可憎之行。

Everyone who meets with him will delight in him, and he indicates an abundance of sexual intercourse, love of the good and the hatred of evil, making peace between people, commanding what is beneficial and forbidding what is detestable.

很好。

Nice.

听起来像是个好人。

Sounds like a good guy.

是的。

Yeah.

听起来很不错。

It sounds pretty good.

我的意思是，这涵盖了生活中所有美好的事物，而这在传统文本中非常常见，尤其是当它们讨论吉星和凶星时，往往会突出吉星最美好的一面，而强调凶星最糟糕的一面。

I mean, it's all of the good things in life and that's, you know, very common thing with, traditional texts, especially when they're talking about benefics and malefics, they'll tend to emphasize all of the best parts of the benefics and they'll tend to emphasize all the worst part of malefics.

对。

Yes.

所以这里没什么缺点。

So there's not a lot of downsides here.

但我认为，当我们谈到像我们下一位作者威廉·利利这样的例子时，他会开始讨论木星位置不佳时的一些负面影响。

But I think once we get to, for example, some of our next author William Lilly, for example, he will start talking about when Jupiter's not as well placed, these are some of the downsides.

不过目前，我们主要还是在讨论这颗行星有哪些积极的一面。

So right now though, we're still primarily talking about what are the good things about this planet.

所以我们确实能看到与瓦伦斯的连续性。

So we do see some continuity with Valens.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

这很有趣。

It is interesting.

同样，在开头他就提到了子女、孙辈，但也提到了学者、法律专家、在人与人之间做出裁决、公正行事、理解智者、真理、宗教和崇拜。

Again, right at the top, he mentions children, children of children, but he also mentions scholars, legal experts, making judgments between people, acting justly, understanding sages, truth, religion, worship.

当然，对于生活在九世纪伊斯兰世界且身为宗教学者的阿布·马沙尔来说，这些内容在宗教与法律学术方面是紧密交织在一起的。

Of course, for Abu Ma'shar, somebody living in the Islamic world in the ninth century and who was a religious scholar, some of those things are very much intertwined in terms of religious and legal scholarship and things like that.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我确实能从自己的个人经历中产生共鸣，你之前甚至就在推特上提到过这一点。

I mean, I definitely can relate, you know, to some of that from my own personal story, you you indicated a little bit earlier, on Twitter even just this week.

这一周真漫长。

This week has been long.

对。

Right.

请原谅我。

Have to forgive me.

我刚才在讲我是怎么开始接触占星术的，我说这是因为我想让一个以为我是天蝎座的双子座闭嘴。

I was talking about how I actually got into astrology, and I was talking about how it was kind of to shut up a Gemini who thought I was a Scorpio.

哦，对。

Oh, right.

你当时是个怀疑论者。

You were a skeptic.

我忘了这一点。

I forgot about that.

我是个怀疑论者。

I a skeptic.

不错。

Nice.

是的

Yeah.

所以我心想，如果你要我在蜘蛛和半人马之间选一个，那我显然是个半人马。

So I thought I was you know, if I had to choose between being the arachnid and being this, you know, the centaur, I was like, clearly, I'm a centaur.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

我是射手座。

I'm a Sagittarius.

所以因为你儿子，有人在争论你到底是天蝎座

So there's a debate because of your son whether you're scorpion

还是儿子。

or son.

45岁，就这件事来说。

45, right, in terms of that whole particular thing.

是的。

Yeah.

它与这一点的关系在于，你提到我曾是牧师，但我也曾是一名教授。

And how it relates to this, many of my, you know, key episodes in my life you mentioned I was a minister, but I also was a professor.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我曾在坦普尔大学和费城社区学院任教，我想至少还有一所其他学院，你知道的，或者正在争取那个位置。

Had taught at a university at Temple and also Community College of Philadelphia, and I guess at least one other college, you know, or, you know, vying for that.

因此，从事学术研究、参与宗教事务

And so it seemed that dealing with the idea of scholarship, being involved in religion

嗯。

Mhmm.

并且对这些事情有倾向，似乎更符合木星主宰的射手座的特质。

And have an inclination toward those things seem to match more the idea of the Jupiter ruled Sagittarius.

但有趣的是，我经常对学生说，这正是为什么有必要大致看一下星盘，嗯。

What's interesting, though, and I and I tell students this, and this is why it's important to kinda look at the chart Mhmm.

而不是仅仅采用我所谓的‘汉学’方式，即只是基于网络迷因和对星象的浅层理解来阅读

Rather than just go with what I call sinology, where you just kinda read based on memes and different things and understanding of signs

对。

Right.

我有一个太阳与木星成刑相位。

That, you know, I have a sun Jupiter square.

我的木星是上升星座的守护星，并与上升点相对。

I have Jupiter as a ruler of my ascendant opposing my ascendant.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我还有一个射手座的中天。

So and then I have a Sagittarius midheaven.

是的。

Yeah.

所有这些因素共同构成了我人生经历的某些方面，也与阿布·马沙尔所谈论的内容相呼应。

So all these things kinda contribute to some of the things in terms of testifying to my life experience, what I see related to Abu Ma'shar and what he talks about.

是的。

Yeah.

还有几乎在第九宫形成了一组星群，对吧，包括水星。

As well as like a almost stellium in the ninth house, right, with the Mercury.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道的，三个行星。

You know, three planets.

这取决于你如何定义星群。

It depends on how you wanna define stellium.

但，当然可以。

But, you know, but sure.

我的意思是，我想说，你是

I mean, I would say that, you Are you a

四行星星群类型的人吗？

four four planet stellium person?

没有。

Had No.

不是。

Am not.

好的。

Okay.

你是三颗行星的人。

You're three planet person.

我是。

I am.

好的。

Okay.

明白了。

Got it.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得三个就够了。

I I think three is enough.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

三个人就挤了。

Three is a crowd.

是的。

Yeah.

但我会说，是的。

But I I would say yeah.

然后我忘了，你知道的，还没提到第九宫的太阳。

And then I forgot, you know, to mention even the ninth house sun.

所以我认为，看待这个问题有几种不同的方式。

So I think there's there's a couple different ways you you can look at it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但是，当阿布·马沙尔谈到这一点时，确实很有趣。

But, yeah, when Abu Ma'shar goes into that it's interesting.

另外，从本的翻译角度来看，也很有意思。

Also, it's interesting in terms of Ben's translation.

有一个词我很好奇，但我不确定，因为我没有见过原始的阿拉伯文文本。

There's one particular word that I wonder, and I don't know because I don't I haven't seen the original ab the Arabic.

有一个词，在我研究《古兰经》时经常出现，叫做‘sabr’。

There's a word that's used, you know, from my studies of the Quran called sabr.

‘Sabr’意味着坚韧和耐心，或者说是通过坚韧获得的耐心。

And sabr means perseverance and patience or patience, through perseverance.

因此，这也与一个人所能获得的恩典和仁慈相契合，在伊斯兰教义中，这种恩典理想上来自安拉。

And so that also goes along with the grace and graciousness that one can receive, ideally in the Muslim sense would would be from Allah.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但总的来说，无论你的宗教或精神背景如何，木星也象征着这一点，这是阿布·马沙尔特别强调的。

But in a general sense, regardless of your religious background or spiritual background, Jupiter kinda also signifies that as something Abu Ma'shar really highlights.

嗯。

Mhmm.

还有一件值得注意的事情是，在现代观念中，金星被关联到财富和金钱的概念，主要是因为占星学中的某些体系将金星与第二宫联系起来，而第二宫也与金牛座相关。

And and one thing that's also interesting that I'm I think people should take careful note of, in the modern sense, Venus has become related to the idea of wealth and money, mainly through some aspects of the, you know, the astrological alphabet kind of relating Venus to the second house, which relates also to Taurus.

但在古典占星中，那是木星。

But classically, it was Jupiter.

对。

Right.

木星才是衡量一个人是否有财富的标准。

Jupiter was really the measure by how we talked about people having money.

是的。

Yeah.

财富和丰盛，是的。

The the wealth and abundance Yeah.

尤其是物质丰盛的行星。

And especially material abundance planet.

对。

Correct.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我喜欢谈论学者、学术，还有宗教学者、圣地的领袖。

And I like, you know, talking about like scholars, scholarship, but also religious scholars, heads of holy places.

但其中一点是，不仅指沉思和哲学，还包括那些受过高度教育、对某个主题拥有深刻智慧或知识、非常博学的人。

But one of the things is just ideas of not just contemplation and philosophy, but also people who are highly educated and people who have deep wisdom or knowledge about a topic and are very knowledgeable.

这可以追溯到使用‘古鲁’这个术语，或者指那些受过良好教育、对更高层次或更深层、更形而上学的事物非常了解的精神导师。

That goes back sort of to use the term like the guru or the idea of like a spiritual advisor who is very well educated and very knowledgeable about higher matters or matters that are deeper or more metaphysical in some sense.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为木星，我做过一张图表，把太阳和月亮分开了，然后我讨论太阳与追求的关系，月亮则与具身化相关。

I think Jupiter I have this graph I made where I kinda divide the sun and moon, and then I talk about the sun related to the idea of aspiration and then the moon related to embodiment.

与此相对，我认为木星与两者都有关，但木星确实包含了这种追求的意味，比如我们想变得更好、想进步、想进化和成长。

And correlative to that, I think of Jupiter as related to both, but Jupiter definitely encompasses this sense of aspiration, you know, in terms of how we wanna be better, how we wanna improve, how we wanna evolve and grow.

我提到了亚瑟·C·克拉克。

You know, I mentioned Arthur C.

克拉克是射手座，他曾开过一个关于自己是射手座的著名玩笑。

Clarke, who was a Sagittarius who made even a famous joke about being a Sagittarius.

我不相信占星术，但我是个射手座。

I don't believe in astrology, but I'm a Sagittarius.

对吧？

Right?

所以，你懂的，那种同样的感觉。

So, you know, there's that same kind of sensibility.

哦，他是个富有灵性的木星。

Oh, he's a psychic Jupiter.

他说过，射手座的人通常很怀疑，或者

He said something like Sagittariuses are famously skeptical or

是的，就是这样。

something Yeah.

就像这样，同样的这种特质，你知道，谈到他最著名的作品《2001太空漫游》，当你看这部电影时，我小时候，我不确定你有没有看过，由斯坦利·库布里克执导，它从一根骨头演变成太空。

Like So there's this this the same sensibility, you know, talking about even his most notable book 2020 2001 where it is because when you look at the movie, when I was a kid, I don't know if you've seen it, with Stanley Kubrick, and, you know, it goes from a boon to a bone, I'd said, I should say, to outer space.

等等。

Like, wait.

什么？

What?

但我读过这本书，它在描述这种进化与追求的过程时更有意义。

But I read the book, and it made more sense in terms of this process of evolution and aspiration.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以木星某种程度上能激发我们最好的一面，嗯。

So Jupiter is kind of what pulls the best out of us Mhmm.

从我们如何构想的角度来看，无论是通过哲学上的转变、心态的转变，还是更进一步地，通过接纳我们所拥有的，来更多地进入一种富足感，嗯。

In terms of how we might envision whether that's through a philosophical shift or a mindset shift or even more so where we, you know, kind of step more into our sense of abundance by embracing what we have Mhmm.

并且愿意分享我们所拥有的东西。

And being willing to share even what we have.

没错。

Right.

你知道的？

You know?

我喜欢这一点。

I like that.

而且你用的某些关键词让我想到一些像远见卓识或拥有

And it's also some of the keywords words you're using make me think of things that are like far seeing or having

嗯。

Mhmm.

你的视野投向地平线上某个未来的方向。

Your vision set on the horizon somewhere in the future.

尤其是木星的某些星座，比如射手座，有一种寻求和探索的感觉，总是在某种意义上凝视着他们的地平线。

And especially some of Jupiter's signs, like especially Sagittarius, there's this, sense of seeking, of searching for something and always looking to their horizon in some sense.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这可能正是木星带来的特质。

And that's probably a property that's coming from Jupiter.

我的意思是，双鱼座也有类似特质，但有时会朝更形而上、近乎灵性或无形的方向发展。

I mean, we get some of that in Pisces as well, but it sometimes ends up going in a more metaphysical or almost like spiritual or intangible sense.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这可以有实际的关联，但我认为关键在于获得一种愿景。

And I think that can have a tangible correlation, but I think it depends more on getting a sense of vision.

我开车过来的时候，网约车司机跟我聊起，据说他们市长叫佩纳，嗯。

So on my drive over here, I had the the Lyft driver, and he was telling me about, I guess, his name was you had a mayor named Pena Mhmm.

那位市长极具远见，主导修建了你们现在拥有的国际机场，还专门划出了配套用地，当时很多人都反对他这么做。

Who had the vision to have the international airport that you have now and to kinda set apart, and people fought him about that.

然后他就说，你知道的，那位市长当时就预见了这会带动商业发展，还能让丹佛更受瞩目。

And he's like, you know, he had this vision that it would bring business and, you know, put Denver more on the map.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但当时的人们确实非常抵制这件事。

But people were really kind of, like, resistant to that.

但事实证明他说得完全没错。

But it turns out he was absolutely correct.

对的。

Right.

是这样吧？

Right?

就丹佛发生的变化来说，它从前只是个人们只会在飞越时顺带看上一眼的城市，一个小城镇，确实是这样。

In terms of what has happened to Denver was a flyover city, cow town Right.

正如他所说，引述他的话。

As he you know, to quote him.

所以，从某种意义上说，这就是木星的远见卓识。

And so that's Jupiter some sense, you know, having the sense of vision.

关于木星与神话相关的独特之处，是阿布·马沙尔没有讨论过的。

What's unique even about Jupiter related to the myth that's not, you know, discussed with Abu Ma'shar.

但你知道，木星在推翻克洛诺斯的过程中，做了一件克洛诺斯（也就是土星）没做过的关键事——他建立了第一个官僚体系，雇佣了自己的孩子，还有兄弟姐妹，来管理天体事务——我甚至不只是说人类事务，而是宇宙层面的事务。

But, you know, Jupiter was the the you know, in terms of usurping Kronos, one of the key things he did that Kronos did not do, Saturn, was he created the first bureaucracy, right, in terms of employing and having his his children and then also his siblings in managing, you know, things related to, you know, celestial I won't even just say human, but cosmic affairs.

而且

And

我认为这也是木星的含义——为每个人留出空间，让每个人都能做出贡献。

I think that's also the sense of Jupiter of, you know, where we make space for everyone to make their contribution Mhmm.

并且具备这种成长的特质。

And have that aspect of growth.

对。

Right.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

你提到的让我想到一些天蝎座上升的人，他们有一种乐观感，一种压倒性的对未来的乐观与希望，相信事情终将变得更好，而这种核心的乐观或热情有时会推动他们去做原本可能不会做的事，这让我有时联想到所谓的‘秘密’。

Something you're saying is making me think of some Sagittarius rising people I know and this sense of optimism and this overwhelming sense of optimism and hope for the future and that things can and will get better in the future and that sometimes that core sense of optimism or exuberance can itself push them to do things that they might not have done otherwise, which sort of makes me think sometimes of the secret.

我不认为‘秘密’、吸引力法则这些东西对每个人都有效，但我认为有些人星盘中木星影响强烈，能够以某种方式实现类似的效果——仅仅凭借纯粹的乐观和富足感，他们就能突破障碍，达成一些常人难以实现的目标，这几乎只是因为他们内心有一种不可动摇的信念，觉得他们能做到，我不愿说他们‘配得上’，但他们的希望确实能够以某种方式实现。

And I don't think the secret and the law of attraction and stuff, I don't think that works for everybody, but I think sometimes there's people that have strong Jupiterian influence on their chart that are able to pull off some version of that where just through sheer optimism and sense of abundance and things like that, they're able to push through and achieve certain things that maybe are not achievable by everybody, but it's almost just due to that underwhelming sense that they can do that or some internal sense that they, I don't wanna say deserve it, but that they their hopes can be manifested in

某种方式。

some way.

我认为希望是个不错的起点，但它不是一种策略。

I think hope is a good starting point, but it's not a strategy.

对吧？

Right?

当希望变成一种策略时，我觉得那就是一种荒谬的乐观。

I think when hope becomes a strategy, then I think it's kind of a goofy optimism.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这可能是一种 misplaced 或不当的信任，而不是经过深思熟虑，而你可能需要更多土星的能量。

It can be where it's a malplaced or ill placed sense of trust rather than thinking through things where you might need a little more Saturn.

对。

Right.

但拥有希望，甚至渴望改善、抱有志向。

But having the sense of hope and even wanting to improve, having aspiration

嗯。

Mhmm.

真正相信自己可以变得更大、超越现在的自己，我认为这是人生中非常值得培养的一种品质。

Really wanting to think that you can be bigger and more than you are, I think that's a very important thing to cultivate throughout your whole life.

是的。

Yeah.

这让我想起，本月早些时候我和丽莎做了一期节目，我们重新看了一堆占星主题的电影，其中一部重看的是凯莉·李·菲普斯的《魔星归来》。

It's making me think of because we we Lisa and I did an episode earlier this month where we rewatched a bunch of astrology movies, and one of the ones we rewatched was Return of the Magi by Kelly Lee Phipps.

他已故去，但他是射手座上升，木星位于射手座。

And he was because he passed away, but he was a Sag rising with Jupiter in Sagittarius.

整个项目都充满了木星在射手座的能量，那种强烈的愿景感和付诸行动的决心。

And that entire project was just very much Jupiter in Sag and this overwhelming sense of just having a vision for something and doing it.

其中土星的成分很少，因为你可以看到他是在实践中学习，但希望与乐观的信念始终推动着他前进。

And there wasn't a lot of Saturn because you could see him learning as he went, but that whole notion of hope and optimism just pushed him through.

如果他有更多的土星能量，也许这个项目能更好地规划，提前做好准备，避免最终成品中出现的一些问题，但即便如此，他凭借纯粹的激情和乐观完成这部关于占星术的纪录片，依然令人印象深刻。

And while if he had had more Saturn, maybe the project could have come out a little bit better than it did in terms of being planned out more in advance and not having some of the downsides that it ended up having in the final product, there was still something impressive about just the sheer exuberance and sort of optimism that he had in pulling this off to create like a documentary about astrology.

没错。

Correct.

是的。

Yeah.

我同意。

I agree.

这让我想到另一个极端，有些人说，他们过于依赖土星。

It's it's it's realizing because then the counterpoint where people say like, well, you know, you know, it where they rely too much on Saturn.

对。

Right.

土星对事物说不，而木星则说好。

And Saturn says no to things, whereas Jupiter says yes.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为你必须在可能性与概率之间找到平衡点。

I think you have to strike the balance point between possibility and probability.

可能性更多是木星的思维，思考什么是可能的，而土星则更关注概率。

Possibility is more the influx of Jupiter thinking about what is possible, and Saturn gets much more into probability.

对吧？

Right?

你知道吗？

You know?

这就是为什么，作为一个理念，即使他本身并不是典型的木星类型，我们也可以想想奥巴马，他看到了成为总统的可能性，却没有太关注现实的可能性。

This is where, as an idea, you know, even though he's not a Jupiterian per se, like, can think about Barack Obama, where we can go along the level of, you know, he saw a possibility in terms of being president and didn't pay as much attention to the probability.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

但他违背了概率。

But then he defied the probability.

是的。

Yeah.

而且他是水瓶座上升，木星在第一宫。

Well, and he's Aquarius rising with Jupiter in the first house.

好的。

Okay.

没错。

That's right.

确实如此。

That's true.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一个非常好的例子，因为他的初始竞选口号是‘是的，我们能行’。

And that's a really good one because his initial campaign slogan was, Yes, we can.

嗯。

Mhmm.

还有那张标志性的竞选海报，上面只写着‘希望’二字。

As well as that iconic campaign poster that just said hope below it.

这两者都是非常木星和水瓶座特质的情感表达。

Those are both very Jupiterian, very Jupiter and Aquarius type sentiments.

是的，没错。

Yeah, that's right.

他今年经历了木星回归，所以事情又来了。

He had a Jupiter return this year, so here we go.

好的。

Okay.

是的，木星回归。

Yeah, the Jupiter return.

完成了。

Finished that.

他的第二次土星回归对他来说相当艰难，特朗普的土星回归贯穿了整个总统任期，并经历了奥巴马的第十二宫。

That second Saturn return was pretty rough on him, Trump's was entire presidency of Saturn returning and going through Obama's twelfth house.

第十二宫。

Twelfth house.

是的，第十二宫代表敌人，而第十一宫则与木星相关的朋友和联盟有关。

Yeah, twelfth house of enemies versus the eleventh house associated with Jupiter of friends and alliances.

好的。

All right.

那么，我们继续往下走，跳过几个世纪，来到我们最后一位传统作者——17世纪的占星师威廉·利利，他在1647年撰写了第一部英文占星学教科书。

So why don't we move on to move through the passages to our next author where we're going to skip through several centuries to our last traditional author to the seventeenth century astrologer William Lilly who wrote the first major English language textbook on astrology in 1647.

这部分我来读一部分。

I'll do part of this one.

他把它分成了几个部分。

He breaks it up into sections.

他说，木星的性质是阳性、日间、热而湿润、属风、多血质，为大吉星或更大的吉星，代表节制、谦逊、节制与正义。

He says, The nature of Jupiter is masculine, diurnal, hot and moist, airy, sanguine, the great fortune or the greater fortune, author of temperance, modesty, sobriety, and justice.

受其代表的人包括法官、参议员、顾问、神职人员、主教、牧师、牧者、枢机主教、大法官、民法博士、大学或学院的年轻学者与学生、律师、毛纺商，当木星得势时。

The people who are signified are judges, senators, counselors, ecclesiastical men, bishops, priests, ministers, cardinals, chancellors, doctors of the civil law, young scholars and students in a university or college, lawyers, clothers, woolen drapers, manners when well dignified.

因此，当木星在星盘中位置良好时，莉莉说，这表明那些心胸宽广、忠诚、羞怯、以高尚方式追求崇高目标、在所有行为中崇尚公正、渴望造福他人、成就辉煌、正直而虔诚、言谈温和亲切、对妻子和子女极为宽容、尊敬长者、乐于救济穷人、充满仁爱与虔诚、慷慨大方、憎恶卑劣行径、公正、睿智、审慎、感恩且有德行的人。

So when Jupiter is well situated in a chart, Lilly says that it indicates those who are magnanimous, faithful, bashful, aspiring in an honorable way at high matters, in all actions a lover of fair dealing, desiring to benefit all men, doing glorious things, honorable and religious, of sweet and affable conversation, wonderfully indulgent to his wife and children, reverencing aged men, a great reliever of the poor, full of charity and godliness, liberal, hating all sordid actions, just, wise, prudent, thankful, and virtuous.

因此，当你在卜卦星盘中发现木星是某人的 significator，或在命盘中是命宫主星且位置良好时，你便可判断此人具备上述品质。

So that when you find Jupiter the significator of any man in a question in a horary chart or the lord of his ascendant in a nativity and well dignified, you may judge him qualified as above said.

接着，莉莉继续说道：然而，当木星位置不佳时，其表现则不同。

Then Lilly goes on and he says, However, manners when Jupiter is poorly placed.

当木星受困时，他会挥霍祖产，任人欺骗，表面上虔诚却虚伪，固执地坚持宗教中的错误教条。

When Jupiter is unfortunate, then he wastes his patrimony, suffers everyone to cozen him, is hypocritically religious, tenacious and stiff in maintaining false tenants in religion.

他无知、粗心，对朋友毫无乐趣可言，天资愚钝、狭隘，具有分裂倾向，在任何场合都卑躬屈膝、无端低头。

He's ignorant, careless, nothing delightful in love of his friends, of a gross, dull capacity, schismatical, abasing himself in all companies, crouching and stooping where no necessity is.

天哪，莉莉。

Damn, Lilly.

是的。

Yeah.

他毫不留情。

He is not playing any punches.

我不太理解其中一些内容，因为那是十七世纪的英语。

So I don't understand some of these because it's like seventeenth century English.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得特别有趣的是，他谈到人们表面上装作虔诚，或固执地维护宗教中的虚假教义。

Of the things that I think is really interesting is he talks about them being hypocritically religious or stiff in maintaining false tenants in religion.

所以，如果木星是代表宗教的行星，或在更高层次上表现为宗教学者，那么当木星状态不佳时，就可能像宗教原教旨主义者，或那些以不良方式利用宗教的人，比如宗教邪教领袖之类。

So if Jupiter is the religious planet or at its higher manifestation as the religious scholar, Jupiter in a not good condition could be like the religious like fundamentalist or the person who is focusing or using religion in a bad way, let's say like a religious cult leader or something like that.

或者是在追求宗教时缺乏真诚的人。

Or someone who's not sincere in their pursuit of religion.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

你知道，那种表面上装得虔诚，实际上并非如此的人。

You know, someone who takes on the trappings of being pious but isn't.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

更多是为了获得尊重。

More so just to be honored.

你知道，这是一种空洞的表现，就拿拥抱宗教的各个层面来说。

You know, it's a like, it's a hollow point, you know, in terms of, you know, embracing the dimensions of religion.

而且，像我这样木星和处女座呈角相的人，对这些观点能理解他的逻辑，虽然我不完全认同，但不得不说，他的逻辑里确实有某种智慧。

And, you know, as someone with my Jupiter and Virgo and Angular, you know, in some of this, I can understand his logic even though I don't think well, one, I don't agree with it completely, but I think there is a certain, believe it or not, a certain wisdom to his logic here.

正如你之前提到的，我最初对占星术是持怀疑态度的。

Just to give you an illustration, as you mentioned earlier, I came to astrology as a skeptic.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且， astrology 进入我的生活时，我早已因曾担任牧师而对教会失去了信仰。

And I also you know, astrology came in my life where I had definitely lost faith in the church having been a minister.

嗯。

Mhmm.

关于莉莉如何阐述这些内容，我可以这么说：我曾与木星在双鱼座或其他不同位置的木星有过互动。

And what I can say per related to how Lilly has spelled out things is there's a way in which and I've been in dynamic with, Jupiter in Pisces or diff various different Jupiter in Pisces.

有一种情况是，木星处于其落陷状态，我认为这在木星在双子座和木星在处女座时也部分成立。

There's a way in which a planet Jupiter in his detriment I think this is somewhat true for the Jupiter in Gemini, also in Jupiter in Virgo.

我想到一段出自《创世记》的经文，或许能说明他在这里所表达的意思。

There's a particular scripture that comes to mind that comes from Genesis, that might even illustrate what he's saying here.

伊甸园里的蛇对夏娃说：‘神真的说过吗？’

The snake in the Garden of Eden says to Eve, yay, hath God said.

对吧？

Right?

这更像是，是的，上帝说了这个，但真的是这样吗？

Which is more so like, yeah, God said this, but is it this?

对吧？

Right?

有一种方式，你需要深入理解诠释的细微差别。

There's a way in which you wanna get into the nuances of interpretation.

比如，这是真的吗？

Like, is this true?

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我发现，我与木星的关系在某种程度上涉及莉莉谈到的这些主题，这是真的吗？

So what I I have found is that some measure of my pursuit relationship with Jupiter related to even some of these themes that Lilly talks about, is that true?

你怎么知道这是真的？

How do you know it's true?

对。

Right.

现在我认为，如果你只是停留在质疑的层面，或者没有真正投入或感兴趣，那是一种愚蠢的做法。

Now I think the folly is if if you just stay on the level of just questioning or not being sincerely invested or interested Mhmm.

那样的话，可能会变得虚伪，或者只是表面化，无法真正深入其中。

Then it can become hypocritical or just, you know, kind of surficial and not really kind of finding more the the depth in it.

是的。

Mhmm.

但如果你愿意打开心扉，去接纳一些与木星相关的议题，我认为，同时保持开放的心态，这种不利因素反而能以更真诚、甚至更深刻的方式去理解木星的主题。

But if you are willing to open your heart some of the things that are also related to Jupiter, I think then as well as kinda going toward an open mind, I think then that detriment can learn a much more honest and maybe even a more in-depth way in which to appropriate Jupiterian themes.

是的。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

我喜欢你使用‘真理’这个词，这确实是木星的一个良好象征。

I like that you're you're using the word truth, and that's a good Jupiter signification.

真理是其核心含义之一，那些木星突出的人往往会在各种层面寻求真理，但有时会专注于某一特定领域，试图在那里找到并实现真理。

A core signification is like truth, and, people with a prominent Jupiter seem to be those who search for the truth in all manners of being but sometimes end up focusing on one particular area where they try to find and achieve truth.

然后有趣的是，这引出了其他一些相关的象征意义，比如法官，他们实际上是决定什么是真、什么是假，并以理想中至少是公正的方式应用法律的人。

And then it's interesting that that leads to some of the other side significations like judges who are literally people who decide what's true and what's not and apply like the law in ideally at least in a in a just way.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我认为，结合你刚才说的，甚至是你最初暗示的内容，我也曾经是个狂热分子。

I think and then going along with what you said or even, you know, intimated initially, you know, I also was a zealot.

对吧？

Right?

我就是那种你高中时期可能很讨厌的人。

I was one of those people you would have hated probably in high school.

你有没有把耶稣当作你个人的救主？

It's like, do you know Jesus as your personal savior in the world?

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

你知道，这算是我的一种习惯，就是分发传单。

You know, it's kind of my thing and pass out tracts.

所以，有这样一种人，他们对某种特定的真理极为执着。

So there's that particular person who becomes so beholden to a certain sense of truth.

嗯。

Mhmm.

也许这甚至体现在宗教中，固守某些错误的教条，是的。

Maybe that's even, you know, term stiff in maintaining false tenets in religion Yeah.

你对某种僵化的观念如此执着，以至于失去了法律的精神，只拘泥于字面意思。

Where you become so beholden to a certain rigid sensibility of it that you lost the spirit of the law and just more the letter of the law.

或者有个意大利谚语，一位叫玛格丽塔·菲奥雷洛的占星师曾经告诉我，那就是‘皈依者的热情’。

Or there's like an Italian saying another astrologer, Margarita Fiorello, told me once is the passion of the convert.

就像，没有人比刚皈依某种新宗教的人更热情了，因为那些从小就在其中长大或长期接触它的人，情况不一样。

Like, there's nobody who's more passionate than the person that's just recently converted to some new religion because it's like somebody that grew up in it or has been around it for a long time.

他们或许有时间慢慢平和下来，看到其中的一些正面和负面之处。

It's sort of like they've maybe had time to mellow out a little bit and see some of the positive sides and the negative sides.

但新近皈依的人，就是那种坚定地认为自己所信的就是真理，每个人都应该参与其中，每个人都应该知道真相，并渴望与所有人分享的人。

But the recent convert, the new convert is somebody who is just like, you know, dead set on spreading that and that this is the truth and that everybody should take part in that and everyone should know the truth and wants to share that with everyone.

没错。

Correct.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我认为就是这样，当你更深入地研究一些古典占星家、思想家以及他们的思维方式时，比如莉莉，他们确实有一种倾向，用非常僵化、非常明确的术语来表述问题。

That's I think and and that's you know, when we study more of some of the classical astrologers and thoughts, you know, and and thinkers and how they think about things, and Lilly is definitely along that, there's definitely a way in which they may frame things in very speaking of rigid, very key terms.

所以，比如你有木星在双子座或处女座，你会想：等等，我难道就是这些所有特质吗？

So, like, if you had, like, your Jupiter and Gemini or Virgo and you go, like, wait, am I all these things?

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

你知道，如果你内化了这一点，你可能会想，嗯，我其实并不真的是那种在伴侣中自我贬低、屈身俯就的人，而且我仍然不明白他所说的在没有必要时蹲下和弯腰是什么意思。

You know, if you internalize that and you kinda go like, well, yeah, I'm not really I'm schismastical and abasing myself in accompanies, and I still don't know what he means by crouching and stooping where no necessity is.

是的。

Yeah.

我也不确定这是什么意思。

I'm not sure what that means either.

但他确实提到过当情况不利时。

But I I mean, he does say when unfortunate.

所以，让我们说，这不仅仅是因为星座位置，还涉及派别。

So let's say it's not just because it's not just sign placement, but also sect.

在日间图中，木星会更具吉性，而在夜间图中，其吉性会稍加克制。

Jupiter's gonna be more benefic in a day chart and it's gonna be a little bit more restrained in its beneficence in a night chart.

或者如果它落在某个宫位，比如第八宫。

Or in a house if it's in the house or maybe eighth.

如果它落在第六宫、第八宫或第十二宫，这可能会使木星的位置更具挑战性。

If it's in the sixth or eighth or twelfth, that's gonna be a more challenging position for Jupiter potentially

这很合理。

That's fair.

相比之下，像第十一宫或第五宫这样的吉宫就更好。

Versus one of the good houses like the eleventh or the fifth.

或者从利利认为的幸运或不幸角度来看，它是被其他吉星或凶星真正祝福还是被损害？

Or even in terms of what Lilly would consider fortunate or unfortunate, is it bonafide or maltreated by other benefics or malefics?

比如，在日间图中，它是否受到火星的困难刑克，或在夜间图中受到土星的刑克？这可能表明木星的位置更具挑战性；反之，它是否在夜间图中受到金星的和谐三分相之类的良好影响？

Like, does it have a hard opposition from Mars in a day chart or Saturn in a night chart, for example, which could indicate a more challenging Jupiter placement versus does it have a nice trine from Venus in a night chart or something like that?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这很合理。

That's fair.

好的。

Okay.

这是利利的观点。

So this is Lilly.

我们继续往下说吧？

Why don't we keep moving forward?

你想去

Do you want to Go

将近一百年后的未来

a hundred years, nearly a hundred years into the future

是的。

Yeah.

我们将从1647年直接跳到1940年。

Gonna from that jump forward from 1647 to 1940.

德国作家莱因霍尔德·埃伯廷撰写了《恒星影响的组合》，这本书非常简短精炼，但却对后来的英文作者如罗布·汉德和理查德·塔纳斯等人产生了深远影响。

The German author Reinhold Ebertin who wrote The Combination of Stellar Influences which is very short and concise, but it ended up being very influential on later later English authors like Rob Hand and Richard Tarnas and and others.

所以我觉得他很合适。

So I thought he would be good.

在整个占星学流派中，我是指宇宙生物学派，或者乌拉尼娅派，现在叫什么来着？对称占星学？

In a whole school of astrology, I mean, in terms of the cosmobiological school or uranium or now, what is it called, symmetrical astrology?

对。

Right.

好的。

Alright.

原则、和谐、法则、宗教、心理对应、扩展或延伸的冲动、拥有或占有、满足、和谐、正义、建设性倾向、乐观、社会意识、道德与宗教追求、全面审视的能力。

So principle, harmony, law, religion, psychological psychological correspondence, the urge to expand or extend enlargement, ownership or possession, satisfaction, harmony, justice, constructive inclinations, optimism, a social sense, moral and religious aspirations, the faculty to survey the whole.

不和谐、不公正、好斗、反社会行为、不道德行为、道德沦丧、对享乐的渴望、贪婪、物质主义的生活态度。

Disharmony, injustice, quarrelsome quarrelsomeness, antisocial conduct, amoral behavior, immorality, the craving for pleasure, greed, a materialistic attitude toward life.

所以这些是负面的吗？

So those are the negatives?

这些就是负面的。

Those are the negatives.

是的。

Yes.

分成正面和负面。

Split into positive and negative.

好的。

Okay.

生物对应关系：器官、血液、营养功能、肥胖、肝脏、胆汁、血细胞比容。

Biological correspondence, the organ, the blood, the functions of nutrition, corpulence, the liver, the gall, the hematocrit years.

社会对应关系：官员、公务员、司法人员、教会人员、银行代表、富人、具有宗教和道德品格与地位的人、寻财者。

Sociological correspondence, officials, civil servants, judiciary, ecclesiastical, and bank representatives, wealthy persons, people of religious and moral character and standing, fortune hunters.

嗯。

Mhmm.

不错。

Nice.

好的。

Okay.

所以他一开始提到的一件事，再次被强调，因为尽管我们现在处于现代，但显然这里有很多延续性。

So one of the things he mentions right at the beginning, again, getting reiterated, because even though we're now in modern times, you know, there's obviously a lot of carryover here.

但他提到了法律，我想稍微谈一下这个，因为当你更深入地思考时，这真的很有意思；如今，当我们想到法律时，往往觉得它是一种压迫性的、可能会让你惹上麻烦的东西。

But he mentions law and I I wanted to touch on that for a second because I thought think that's really interesting when you think about it more deeply because oftentimes these days when we think about law, we think about something that's kind of oppressive or that you might get in trouble or something like that.

但我认为，当他们谈论法律时，他们指的是与无法无天相对的法律，即法律作为一种维持社会良好秩序的手段，让社会运行顺畅、实现最佳结果，从而带来正义与和平。

But I think that when they talk about law, they're talking about that versus lawlessness versus they're talking about law in a sense of keeping society well ordered and in society where things run well and work out for the best so that there's justice and there's peace.

然后他们将这种情形与比如公元五世纪罗马被洗劫之类的场景进行对比。

Then they're contrasting that with let's say like the Roman like the sack of Rome in like the fifth century or something like that.

接着就是一座城市被摧毁，陷入彻底的无法无天和无政府状态，没有正义，没有和平，什么都没有。

And then just like a city being destroyed and there being complete lawlessness and anarchy and no justice and no peace or anything like that.

我认为，当他们谈到朱庇特时，就是这个意思，即法律的含义。

I think that's where they're going when they talk about Jupiter in the sense of like law.

也许吧。

Maybe.

我的意思是，我并不反对这个观点，但我认为法律的基础是哲学。

I mean, I wouldn't disagree with that, but one thing I think about as the basis for law is philosophy.

对吧？

Right?

而且这里面存在一种论点。

And that there's an argument.

我们在法律的制定过程中可以看到这一点，无论是从立法层面，还是从更高层级——我倒不是说普通法院，而是更接近最高法院的层面。

And we see this more in the creation of law and then, whether we're talking about in terms of legislature or we're talking about this on the level of, I wouldn't say more in regular courts, but maybe along the line of the Supreme Court.

法律的有趣之处在于，它是基于某些规范制定的，尤其是那些主要由立法机构批准的法律。

What's interesting about the law, the law is formulated based on, you know, quotas, in particular laws that have been ratified mainly by legislatures.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而通过审视法律的细微差别，我们就可以讨论判例了。

And then by virtue of how you'd look at the nuances of the law, then you could talk about precedents.

对。

Right.

然后我们考察这些不同的判例序列，来构建一个论点，提交给法院进行裁决，也就是我们谈论最高法院时一直在处理的问题。

And then we look at those those different sequence of precedents to make an argument that go before a court that can adjudicate, you know, what that might mean, which is what we always are dealing with when we talk about SCOTUS.

对。

Right.

我们去最高法院。

We go to the Supreme Court.

不过这是个很好的观点，因为不同的最高法院大法官常常在他们的哲学立场上存在分歧，而这往往决定了他们倾向于哪种判决方向。

That's a really good point though because the different Supreme Court justices are often divided about what their their philosophy is and that motivates, like why they go one way or another oftentimes.

正确。

Correct.

所以我认为，关于木星的一个特别细微的理解点在于，你所提出的论点涉及对某种事物细微之处的解读，这很有趣，因为我觉得我跟学生也常谈到，作为占星师，你所使用的某种模型——我有多种不同的思维模型——几乎就像律师一样，因为你也在构建论点。

So I think, you know, one particular nuance of understanding about Jupiter is dealing with, you know, the particular argument that one is meting out related to interpreting the nuance of something, which is interesting because I think, you know, one of the things I also talk about with my students is that some measure of a model, and I have many different models of thinking about how you work as an astrologer, is almost to think sort of like a lawyer because you're also making an argument.

或者当你研究星盘时，你是在审视各种证词

Or when you're studying a chart, you're looking at the testimonies

对。

Right.

行星呈现出的是一种关于此人生命的特定论点。

Of planets as what presents themselves as a particular argument for this person's life.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，在美索不达米亚传统和部分希腊化传统中，他们有时确实会使用法律术语来描述占星，仿佛行星在对一个人的生命及其命运提供证词。

I mean, in the Mesopotamian tradition and some of the Hellenistic tradition, they actually used legal language sometimes in the astrology as if the planets were giving testimony about the person's life and what they know about that person's fate.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因此，法律术语和占星术语之间常常存在相互交融。

And so it was often there was an interchange between the legal terminology and astrological terminology.

对。

Yeah.

这也与木星的含义相契合。

And which goes along with the sense of Jupiter.

木星涉及这种层面的辨别力和判断力，用于厘清什么是真相的要素。

Jupiter kind of dealing with that level of discernment and discretion in terms of ascertaining what is the element of truth.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以，在埃伯廷的著作中，尤其是那本书，我推荐你读一读，所有这些书，人们或许都该把它们摆在书架上。

So, you know, in Ebertin, especially in that book and I would recommend, you know you know, all those books, all these books, people might be something that that should lie on their shelves.

但我喜欢科西的原因是，它被亲切地称为——我的那本已经翻旧了——他确实深入探讨了这些特定要点的一些核心内容，并提出了一些新颖的创新。

But what I like about Coasey was that it's kind of affectionately called, and I haven't, and mine is kind of worn down, is that, you know, he really does get into some essential elements of these particular points with some novel innovations.

所以，举个例子，稍微跑个题，当他谈到交点时，嗯。

So for instance, just going on tangent briefly, when he talks about the nodes Mhmm.

他是最早将交点与社会性联系起来的人之一，对吧。

He was one of the first people who introduced the nodes related to, like, its social component Right.

以及它如何与人们的社会互动相关。

And, you know, how it relates to people socially.

因此，比如从特定角度看待木星，因为他还谈到了冲动、功能，以及与功能相关的行星，还有这些特定的方面。

And so, like, going into looking at Jupiter in particular ways because he also talked about urges and functions and planets related to functions and having these particular things.

比如，他谈到了一种社会性感知，这与我们之前读过的那些作者更宽泛地讨论的许多内容紧密相连。

Like, talks about a social sense where that really kind of ties in a lot of things that the previous, you know, authors that we read kind of more talked about in a broad sense.

是的。

Mhmm.

但他的描述方式变得更加简洁了，对吧。

But he kinda became a lot more economical Right.

在他对它的描述中。

In his sense of description of it.

对。

Yeah.

他还明确提到了两件与木星相关的、相当负面的事情。

And two things he also mentions that are very explicitly, sort of negative things with Jupiter.

其中一件，他列在负面项下，作为心理或潜在的心理对应，他说是物质主义或对生活的物质化态度。

He one of them he lists in the negative side as a psychological or potential negative psychological correspondence is he says, materialism or a materialistic attitude towards life.

然后在生理对应方面，他提到肥胖，这在现代是木星常被关联的一个方面——它可能代表丰盛、食物充足，但也可能意味着过度，比如在饮食方面走得太远，确实如此。

And then also under biological correspondence, says corpulence, which would be one of the things in modern times that Jupiter becomes associated with is it can be, you know, abundance and having an abundance of food or what have you, but then it can also be excess and like going too far when it comes to Absolutely.

食物、饮料，或者类似的东西。

Food or drink or something like that.

是的。

Yeah.

我总是从我自己的传教背景来谈木星。

I always say about Jupiter kind of going from my own preacherly background.

木星可能更多关乎你的卓越、你对卓越的承诺，或者你的放纵。

Jupiter can be more about your excellence, your commitment to excellence, or your excess.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

所以这更是一种心态，尤其是当木星回归时，你可能会更多地面对自己的放纵，并顺应这种心态。

So that's kinda more so the sensibility where especially if Jupiter returns, you might be dealing more with your excesses and going along with that match funder sensibility.

如果你倾向于接纳自己的放纵，木星就会让你这么做。

If you are inclined to embrace your excesses, Jupiter will allow you to do it.