天秤座在占星学中的含义与特质

而且，我觉得从事美容行业确实很符合天秤座的特点。

And, yeah, I think working in, like, the sort of cosmetology field is pretty Libra.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我觉得任何与设计相关的事情，比如家居装饰或者数字设计，天秤座的人都往往能做得非常好。

And and I think anything to do with like design, yeah, like, whether it's home decor or whether it's like digital design that people do, I think Libras tend to do really well in in that area.

善于运用色彩、把握色彩的平衡，以及理解整体如何协调统一，这些都是天秤座天生具备的天赋。

Just working with color and the balance of color and just understanding how, like, the big picture and how everything sort of works together cohesively It's something Libra just naturally has a knack for.

事实上，我经常收到这方面的正面反馈，而我其实并没有刻意去这么做。

In fact, something something I get a lot of good feedback on, and it's it's not something I necessarily go out of my way to do.

这不过是让我的工作更有趣的一部分——人们喜欢我使用的色彩，或者我在分享占星内容时所用的图像。

It's just something it's just part of what makes my work more enjoyable is people like the colors I use or, like, the imagery that I use when I'm sharing, like, astrological content.

这纯粹是我天生就被吸引的东西。

And it's just it's just something that I'm just naturally drawn to.

作为天秤座，我喜欢色彩。

I like color as a Libra.

而且，是的，我在我的占星客户身上也经常看到这一点。

And, yeah, it's just and I see that a lot with my my astrology clients too.

比如，当我为某人解读时，如果他们有很强的金星位置，他们的背景通常都很有色彩。

Like, if I'm reading for someone and they have, like, a really strong Venus placement, their background is colorful.

他们确实有一些色彩。

They have they have some, like, color.

尽管现在流行的趋势是土星、摩羯座、水瓶座那种灰调，但他们身上还是充满了丰富的色彩。

They have a lot of color going on despite, like, the trends right now, which are, like, very Saturn, Capricorn, Aquarius, which has been, like, those gray tones.

是的。

Yeah.

相当黯淡。

Pretty bleak.

那些设计得像酒店一样的东西，我觉得很无趣。

Things that are designed to look like hotel are sad to me.

是的。

Yeah.

确实需要一些色彩。

It needs color for sure.

也许当土星进入双鱼座时，我们会重新找回一些色彩。

Maybe when Saturn goes into Pisces, we'll get some color back.

是的。

Yes.

有趣的是，我最近看了一段关于室内设计的视频，讲的是室内设计趋势如何随年代更迭而变化。

Well, it's interesting how, I was watching a video recently on like interior design and how interior design trends change and shift from decade to decade.

他们特别强调，现在有一些非常流行的趋势，很多人会追随这些趋势，借鉴其中的设计元素来装饰自己的家。

And and one of the things they were emphasizing is how there are certain things that are trendy now and that are really popular and a lot of people will take part in that trend and take design elements to decorate their home from and copy in that trend.

但他也提醒我们，哪些趋势会持久存在，哪些会在五到十年后显得过时，这些你可能不希望采用。

But then he was warning about what trends will stick around versus which ones will look totally dated in like five or ten years from now that you probably don't want to do.

有趣的是，有时时尚或设计趋势会出现并短暂流行。

And it was interesting the idea that sometimes fashion or design trends come in and become really popular for a time.

但当某种趋势变得过于流行时，就会出现一种反向趋势来抵制或反对它。

But then eventually when something becomes too popular, there's something that rises up against it as a counter trend in order to push back or reject against that.

这让我同时想到了一些天秤座的特质。

And it makes me think of some of that Libra ness at the same time.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我总是想着太阳和土星的对立关系。

It's it's I'm always thinking like a Sun Saturn sort of opposition.

我认为天秤座就是天秤座，而水瓶座通常也如此，因为土星的特质让他们倾向于对抗潮流周期，往往反而成为潮流的发起者。

And I do think Libras are Libras and Aquariuses are kind of usually because of the Saturnian nature of being like on the pushback of the trend cycle, they often become like the initiators of the trend itself.

比如阿德米尔·莱文，当时大家都差不多是这样。

So like Admiral Levine for instance, everybody was kind of I don't know.

我当时还很小。

I was really young.

大家都穿着滑板鞋，还配领带之类的，我不太记得了。

Everyone was like wearing like skate shoes and like ties or I don't know.

他们也会让这些变成一种商场潮流。

They they become like kind of mall trends as well.

比如贝拉·哈迪德不知怎么就让什么流行起来了？

Like Bella Hadid somehow made like a what?

发夹？

The hair clip?

发夹？

The hair clip?

是的。

Yeah.

爪形发夹。

The claw clip.

对。

Yeah.

她不知怎么就让这个成了潮流，尽管它已经存在很久了。

Like, she somehow made that a trend even though it's been around forever.

或者说是的。

Or like yeah.

比如耳罩式耳机，带线的那种。

Even like headphones over the ear, like headphones with a wire.

就像一些非常普通的东西，比如滑板鞋之类的，因为某个著名的天秤座说这很棒，它们就变得流行了。

Like just really mundane things like skate shoes or whatever that become trendy because like some famous Libra is like, this is great.

这种潮流会逐渐传播开来。

This trickles down.

我喜欢这个说法。

I like that.

这正好结合了天秤座艺术性的金星特质，以及白羊座的主动性——正如凯瑟琳之前所说，白羊座倾向于开创事物。

That's a great combination then of both the artistic Venusian side of Libra, but also the cardinal side and that idea that cardinal signs, like Catherine was saying earlier, they tend to initiate things.

所以在天秤座的语境中，我们有时谈论的是引领潮流的人，他们知道什么是流行趋势，或者对当前潮流非常敏感。

So in the Libran context, we're sometimes talking about being the trendsetters and the ones that are leading a trend or know what's trendy or very conscientious of what the current trends are.

你还提到了阿薇尔·拉维尼，她以太阳星座天秤座而闻名。

And you mentioned Avril Lavigne who's famously a Sun sign Libra.

还有另一位著名的太阳星座天秤座人物是金·卡戴珊，她的太阳、冥王星和土星都位于第十一整宫（射手座），日盘上升星座为射手座，她深度参与美容、时尚等领域，并且始终紧跟各种潮流和社交媒体趋势。

And there's another famous Sun sign Libra which is Kim Kardashian who has the Sun and Pluto and Saturn in the eleventh whole sign house, Sagittarius rising in a day chart and is very much involved in things like beauty and fashion types of things and also being on top of different trends and different social media trends and things like that.

许多潮流以及我们日常所见的时尚风格，很大程度上都受到金·卡戴珊的影响。

Kind of setting a of a lot of the trends and a lot of just what we see in everyday fashion I think is really strongly influenced by Kim Kardashian.

天秤座知道什么看起来好看。

Libra knows what looks good.

天秤座知道什么看起来好看。

Libra knows what looks good.

也许天秤座还具备发现新兴美感的敏锐眼光，并且倾向于迅速跟进，懂得如何很好地执行或呈现这些趋势，这或许也体现了土星的特质。

And maybe has an eye for what looks good that's up and coming and maybe a tendency to jump on that and know how to maybe execute it or do it well which might be another part of the Saturn type thing there.

因为土星通常追求把事情做好，这一点很有意思。

Because Saturn usually tries to do things well is an interesting thing about Saturn.

有趣的是，金·卡戴珊的土星也落在这个星座。

It's interesting Kim Kardashian also having Saturn in that sign.

她土星也在天秤座。

She also has Saturn in Libra.

是的。

Yeah.

我刚才就是这个意思。

I That's was saying.

她有土星和太阳、冥王星都在天秤座。

She has Saturn in Libra and the Sun in Pluto in Libra.

天哪。

Jeez.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这些都很棒，我们正在关注一些美学、美容、社交媒体趋势，成为潮流引领者是非常好的事情。

So those are really good and we're focusing on some of the aesthetics, beauty, social media trends, being trendsetters is a really good thing.

不过，我们也稍微谈到了天秤座的社会属性，这一点有时也可能是一个重要因素。

There's also though we've talked a little bit about the social component of Libras and sometimes that can be a major factor as well.

最近一位著名的天秤座太阳人物是AOC，我们有她的出生时间，这是卡米尔·米歇尔·格雷向我指出的星盘案例之一，她是一位政治家和活动家，致力于在地方和国家层面推动更具进步性和包容性的政策。

One of the more famous Libra Suns recently is AOC who we have birth time for and that was one of the chart examples that Camille Michel Gray pointed out to me who is a politician and an activist that pushes for more progressive and sort of inclusive policies on a local and on a national level.

这可能是我们所讨论的这些原型在社会意识方面的一个有趣的额外变体。

And that might be an interesting additional variation of some of those archetypes that we're talking about in terms of social consciousness.

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

是的。

Yeah.

天秤座基本上是政治家的星座。

Libra is the sign of the politician basically.

它是正义、法律与秩序的星座。

It's the sign it's the sign of justice, law, and order.

你知道，我认为这正是土星在天秤座得势的最强烈体现——制定规则，并 ideally 创造出公平的后果。

You know, I think that that's a pretty much like the strongest actualization of Saturn being exalted in Libra is like making the rules and and and creating consequences ideally that are fair.

你知道，当我们思考占星术的发展时，古希腊人确实极大地推动了占星术。

You know, we think about astrology and how it was developed and, you know, the ancient Greeks really just like brought astrology.

他们将占星术整合成了我们今天仍在使用的体系。

They coalesced into the system that we still work with today.

他们是最早期的民主社会之一，我们可以从中看到民主的雏形。

And they were they were, like, one of the I I wanna say first, but one of one of the oldest societies that we can look at as democratic.

是的，天秤座象征着天平与公平。

And, yeah, and, like, Libra being, like, the sign of the scale and fairness.

正如我所说，这其实是一种工具，用来确保我们为某样东西支付了公平的价格。

Like I said, this was a tool, like, to make sure that we were paying a fair price for something.

天平实际上是在古埃及发展出来的，用作一种公正的评判方式，衡量某物应支付多少或值多少。

The scale was actually developed in ancient Egypt as a way to be like an impartial judgment of, you know, how much something was owed or how much something was was worth.

因此，这种天平逐渐成为文明、理性、公平与道德的象征。

And so this scale sort of goes on to be a symbol of of civility, of civilization, of being rational, of being fair, of being moral.

于是我们看到许多政治家都体现了这些天秤座的特质，其中一些更强烈的土星能量也显现出来，因为要成为政治家，你必须足够受欢迎才能当选。

And so we get all these politicians that embody these Libra qualities, and some of that more saturnian energy really comes through because, well, to be a politician, you have to be well liked enough to get elected.

但许多政治家身上还有一种‘绵里藏针’的特质。

But there is something more like of that iron fist in the velvet glove quality that a lot of politicians have.

所以奥卡西奥-科尔特斯是一个例子，但还有很多其他类似的人。

So AOC is one, but there are so many others.

比如玛格丽特·撒切尔、比尔·克林顿、吉米·卡特，布什父子都有天秤座的星盘。

There's like Margaret Thatcher, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, the Bushes both had Libra placements.

而目前，是的，副总统卡玛拉·哈里斯的太阳星座也是天秤座。

And right now, yeah, vice president Kamala Harris had is a Libra son too.

所以有很多很多政治家都是天秤座。

So lots of lots of politicians with Libra.

让我快速分享一下她的星盘。

Let me share her chart really quickly.

亚历山大·奥卡西奥-科尔特斯的太阳、火星、中天和水星都落在天秤座。

So there's Alexandria Ocasio Cortez who has the Sun, Mars, the Midheaven, and Mercury all in Libra.

而她的月亮落在白羊座，与之相对，因为她出生在满月前大约一天。

And it's opposite to the Moon which is in Aries because she was born just about a day before a full Moon.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我也很喜欢她星盘中展现出的那股火气。

I I love the fire that comes out in her chart too.

但这种天秤座的能量就像是在掌舵一样，你知道的。

But it's like the Libra energy is just sort of like driving the ship, you know.

她的天秤座太阳隐藏在这一切背后，有着一种与生俱来的公平感。

Her Libra Sun is behind it all, like having this innate sense of of fairness.

是的。

Yeah.

但还有火星在那里，当她认为事情失衡或出现不公时，有时会激起一种道德上的义愤。

Well, but also the Mars there, there's like a moral outrage sometimes when things are in her view like unbalanced or when there's injustices taking place.

作为太阳与火星或水星与火星合相的人，她非常直接地指出问题，并在出现社会或政治不公时坚决反抗。

She's very forthright as a Sun Mars or a Mercury Mars conjunction about like calling stuff out and pushing back when there are especially like social or political injustices taking place.

即使这些话可能不太礼貌或不合时宜，她似乎也总是坦率地表达自己对这些事情的看法。

She seems very like forward about saying what she thinks about those things even if it's like not super polite or what have you.

是的。

Yeah.

还有一件事让我想到，火星在天秤座处于落陷状态，这其实也帮助我们理解天秤座的本质——因为火星在天秤座感到不适，是因为天秤座是金星的领域。

And something else that that is sort of coming to my mind here with Mars having its detriment in Libra, that sort of helps us to understand what Libra is about too where, you know, if Mars has like a certain level of discomfort in the sign of Libra, it's because, you know, Libra is Venus' territory.

我们试图将事物统一起来。

Like, we're trying to bring things into cohesion.

我们试图找到一个双赢的解决方案。

We're trying to get everyone we're trying to find a solution that is like a win win.

你知道，天秤座也想赢。

You know, Libra wants to win too.

他们只是希望其他人也能赢。

They just want everyone else to win as well.

但是，没错，火星在天秤座，我认为这对政治家来说是个绝佳的位置，因为通常作为政治家，你不能像火星在白羊座那样直接冲上去硬碰硬。

But, yeah, with Mars in Libra, I think it's actually a wonderful place for politicians because typically, as a politician, you know, you can't do that sort of, like, Mars and Aries go for the gullet type thing.

你必须具备一种表达的艺术。

Like, you have to have, like, an art of delivery.

必须以一种非常圆滑的方式进行对抗。

There has to be, like, maybe in, like, like, a very polished way of of confron of confrontation.

所以，没错，火星在天秤座，我想到了那种通过操纵言辞来让人换角度看待问题的律师。

And so, yeah, like, Mars in in Libra, I think of, like, the lawyer who manipulates the words in order to get somebody to see things from another way.

是的

Yeah.

这是个很好的观点。

That's a really good point.

兰登，你有什么想说的吗？

Randon, did you have something you were gonna say?

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，把天秤座看作民主的象征，好吧，这有点像民粹主义，当然，民主和民粹主义是不同的。

I mean, just thinking about Libra as the sign of democracy and okay, this is kind of like populism or democracy and populism, of course, are different.

但好吧，我们都要投票决定什么？

But okay, what are we all gonna vote on?

大家投票决定的事情，就是在这个单一决策下团结起来。

Who what everyone votes on is is coming together under this one decision.

这个单一的决定就像天平最终偏向了某一方。

This one kind of like the scales finally weigh out in one way or another.

而且，我的意思是，这个决定并不总是能让每个人都满意。

And and I mean, like, that decision isn't always going to be making everyone happy.

这就像一种中间立场，而当民主选择不符合人们的期望时，政治家常常就成了人们发泄不满的替罪羊。

It's just like sort of like the middle ground that, yeah, that kind of makes politicians often like a scapegoat or or whatever for people's frustrations if if the democratic choice doesn't go their way.

但确实如此。

But yeah.

我的意思是，我认为民主并不总是完全公平的。

I mean, I think democracy is not always exactly fair.

我认为天蝎座可能会带来一种情感上的终结感，即正义——而天秤座的法庭并不一定意味着完全的公平，或者至少意味着一种了结。

And I think Scorpio, right, would add like maybe like a sort of emotional, like finality where like justice, right, and Libra's court wouldn't necessarily mean total fairness or not necessarily fairness but closure.

你可以对某件事做出最终裁决，却依然无法感到释怀，因为那只是不偏不倚的正义。

Like you can have a final jurisdiction on something and just never feel closure because it's just impartial justice.

它只是用天平来完成的。

It's done with a scale.

这些就是规则，它不可能总是让每个人感到开心。

These are the rules and and it's not gonna make people happy all the time.

所以我认为民主实际上是一个非常有争议的话题。

So I think democracy is actually really a controversial topic.

我认为这也是天秤座经常受到批评的原因。

And I think that's also why Libra's catch a lot of heat.

而且确实有很多天秤座的人颇具争议，并不是每个人都喜欢，因为民主和公平并不能让每个人都满意。

And and also there have been like a lot of Libra's that are just controversial or not everybody's cup of tea because democracy and fairness isn't going to make everyone happy.

是的。

Yeah.

回到你刚才说的，凯瑟琳，我认为火星位于天秤座的一个问题是，当火星位于它自己的星座白羊座时，就像是被直接递上一把剑，并被告知：这就是你实现目标的方式。

Going back to what you said, Catherine, I think one of the issues with Mars in Libra is when Mars is in its own sign of Aries, it's like handed a sword and just said, this is how you accomplish what you want to do.

而当火星位于天秤座时，火星却被递上一束鲜花，并被告知：这是你实现目标的工具。

Whereas when Mars is in Libra, Mars is handed a bouquet of flowers and said, This is your tool to accomplish what you have to do.

但这并不是火星通常用来达成目标的武器。

And that's not the weapon that Mars is used to wielding most of the time in order to get things done.

它习惯于用砍杀和劈斩的方式去实现自己的目标。

It's used to being able to cut and slash and hack its way towards its goals.

但天秤座必须使用其他东西。

But with Libra, it has to use something else.

它必须依靠魅力、说服、语言、谈判、社会契约以及外交手段之类的工具来达成目标，这些方法虽然有效，但与火星通常的行为方式截然不同。

It has to use other tools like charm or persuasion or words or negotiation and social contract and offers of diplomacy and things like that which can be effective things to do in order to accomplish goals, but it's much different than how Mars is normally inclined to act.

是的。

Yeah.

比如，火星在白羊座时拥有这把剑，直接冲出去夺取你认为应得的东西，效率会高得多，你知道的。

Like, it's it would be so much more efficient, you know, Mars and Aries to have this sword and just go out there and take take what you think you deserve, you know.

但那样做你会树敌。

But you're gonna make some enemies in that way.

而白羊座，作为一种原型，可能更习惯这样做。

And and Aries might be Aries, like, an archetype might be more comfortable doing that.

而天秤座则不习惯这样做。

Whereas Libra, it's it's they're not comfortable doing that.

而且，这也是一种策略。

And also, it's a strategy.

这是一种非常有策略性的事情。

It's a very strategic thing.

我有一本书，叫《权力的48条法则》。

So I I have this book and it's called The 48 Laws of Power.

里面有一整个章节讲的是，它就像是

And there's like this whole section about it's like a it's like a

畅销书。

best seller.

我觉得这是一本非常天秤座的书。

It's such a Libra book, I think.

没错。

It is.

这真的是一本非常天秤座的书。

It is such a Libra book.

这简直像一本火星落在天秤座的书，因为

It is such like a Mars in Libra book because

还有，你们俩为什么都说这个？

Also or what do you both why do you both say that?

所以罗伯特·格林那本著名的书，《权力的48条法则》？

So Robert Green's famous book, 48 Laws of Power?

是的。

Yeah.

这就像一种战略的艺术。

It's like the art of strategy.

比如书里讲了一个故事，关于一位皇帝登基后，通常的做法是杀死所有反对他的人。

So like there's a story in there, for example, about like this emperor that comes to power and it's pretty normal for them to just kill everyone who oppose them.

但他却采取了一种策略，反而雇佣这些人与自己密切合作，他们知道皇帝救了他们的命，因此反而对他更加忠诚。

So instead, he does this strategy where he instead hires them to work closely with him, and they know that he saved their lives, so they're, like, actually more loyal to him.

所以这是一种策略。

So it's it's like strategy.

还有特洛伊木马的故事，你知道的，在特洛伊战争中，战争持续了十年，双方军队实力相当。

Think too, there was a story about the Trojan horse and how, you know, during the Trojan War, they had it was like a 10 war, and they the armies were both, like, evenly matched.

于是他们互相残杀。

And so they were just killing each other.

每个人都在死去，战争却毫无进展。

Like, everyone was just dying, and no one was making any progress in the war.

所以希腊人就想，不如送他们一份礼物吧。

So that's why the Greeks were like, well, let's send them a gift.

我们造一匹小马吧。

Let's build this little horse.

这有点像天秤座的做法，就是送他们一匹漂亮的马。

And it's kind of like a Libra thing where it's like, here's this pretty horse.

把它放进你们的城墙里面。

Like, put it inside of your walls.

然后，战神和天秤座现身，屠杀了所有人。

And then, you know, Mars and Libra comes out and slaughters everybody.

他们赢了，但希腊人的问题是，觉得这不够阳刚。

And they won, but like the issue that the Greeks had was they were like, this isn't manly enough.

他们其实不太赞成，但还是说，你不想赢吗？

And they were kind of against it, but they were like, you know, don't you wanna win?

所以这是一个典型的火星与天秤座的战略策略。

So that's an instance where, you know, like a Mars and Libra strategic move.

你不是直接冲向要害，但这种方法可能非常有效。

You're not going straight for the gullet, but it can be very effective.

只是它需要多花点力气才能达成那个结果。

You just it has to work a little bit harder to bring about that result.

是的。

Yeah.

当然，就像打代理战争一样。

Definitely, like, fighting, like, proxy wars almost.

就像我不是亲自去做，而是让别人去做。

Like, I didn't do it like someone else is doing it.

也许火星与天秤座对他们来说是个不错的策略。

Maybe Mars and Libra could be a good strategy for them.

我觉得《权力的48条法则》里有很多内容，比如总是让别人替你去做，或者永远不要完全暴露你的意图，还有‘亲近朋友，更要亲近敌人’这类观点。

And I think, like, the 48 laws laws of power has a lot of content kind of like always have someone else do it for you or, you know, you never really reveal, like, all of your intentions or kind of keep your keep your friends close, but your enemies closer kinds of things.

这其实是非常，有点像

Like, it's it's a really it's kind of

这是一本有争议的书，但在这方面确实很天秤座。

a controversial book, but it's pretty Libra in this way.

完全正确。

Totally.

我百分百同意。

A 100% agree.

这又是天秤座的另一种刻板印象：让别人替你做事，比如通过暗示的力量，或者把主意包装成别人的想法，而不是直接说‘嘿，帮我一下’或者‘我们一起合作吧’。

And that's another sort of Libra stereotype of like getting other people to do things for you, like the power of suggestion or like making it someone else's idea versus instead of saying, hey, I want you to help me with this, or I I want you to collaborate with me.

天秤座的暗示艺术是说：‘你看，这对你有好处。’

You know, the Libra art of suggestion is saying, you know, this is why it'll benefit you.

也许在请求帮助之前，你还会先夸对方一大堆。

And maybe you maybe you give them a bunch of compliments first before you ask the favor.

我觉得这就像天秤座的一种交换方式。

I think it's just like a Libra sort of way of exchanging.

比如，嘿。

Like, hey.

我真的很感谢你。

I appreciate you.

我希望你能为我做点什么。

I want I want you to do do something for me.

但是的，我觉得这正是天秤座的一个刻板印象。

But, yeah, I think that that's like a Libra stereotype there.

我在想，为什么会有礼仪这种东西？

I'm like, why why does etiquette exist?

有这么多关于正确、得体做事方式的规则，我真的不明白。

Like, there are all these rules of of the correct proper way of doing things and I don't know.

礼仪。

Etiquette.

对。

Yeah.

社交信号，还有社会秩序。

Social social cues, social order.

没错。

Yeah.

就好比说，天秤座被看作是代表文明得体的星座。

Like, thinking about Libra as, like, a sign of civility.

就好比古希腊人，他们觉得火星代表的行事风格太过鲁莽冲动，而礼仪这个概念的出现（正好平衡了这点）。

Like, the the Greeks, they thought that, like, Mars was really brash and, like, the whole idea of, like, manners.

如果你看过中世纪题材的电影，会看到人们围坐在桌旁，狼吞虎咽地抢吃东西，这时候你肯定会想对，没错。

Like, if you've seen, like, movies from, like, medieval times and people just sort of sitting around a table and just, like, gobbling up food and and then, like, you think yeah.

再对比后来的场景：大家把餐桌布置妥当，吃饭时会说“麻烦请递给我这个”“谢谢”，还会把餐巾铺在腿上。

About And then you think about, like, more of, like, a a set table and people saying please and thank you and please pass me this and you have the napkin on your lap.

这种讲规矩的状态，就更符合天秤座的特质了。

Like, that's more of, a Libra thing.

那么，是谁创造了这些社会规则呢？

And, like, who who created all these social rules?

但这确实很像土星和天秤座的特质，比如设定期望，并有一套明确的行为规范，来规定你在社交场合中应该如何表现。

But it is like a very Saturn and Libra thing, like setting expectations and having, like, a, like, a set of, yeah, like a set of expectations for how you're supposed to behave in a social situation.

然后我想，《权力的48条法则》讲的就是如何利用这些规则为自己谋利，这某种程度上也属于天秤座的特质——如果你看看那些著名的政治家或拥有显著天秤座星象的人，比如普京、萨提亚，或者其他任何人。

And then I guess the 48 laws of power are like, how do we exploit these rules for our own gain, which would be kind of Libra, I think if you're looking at all these, like, famous politicians or people who have prominent Libra placements like, you know, Putin or Satya or whoever else.

是的。

Yeah.

利用他们对社交线索的了解来取得优势，推行自己的意志或任何他们想要的东西。

Kind of using their knowledge of social cues to have the upper hand to initiate their will or whatever they want it

发生。

to happen.

天秤座的符号简直就像一枚棋子。

The symbol for Libra might as well be a chess piece.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这个。

I like that.

这个不错。

That's a good one.

是的。

Yeah.

比尔·克林顿是二十世纪最著名的天秤座星群例子之一，他的上升点、火星、海王星、金星和木星全部位于天秤座的第一整宫。

And and Bill Clinton is one of the most famous sort of twentieth century examples of a Libra stellium where where he had the Ascendant, Mars, Neptune, Venus, and Jupiter all in Libra in the first whole sign house.

是的，他利用了这些特质来获得优势，懂得如何运用社交线索和魅力。

Yeah, using some of those things to his advantage and knowing how to use social cues as well as charm.

人们常说，当他首次竞选总统、还在政坛活跃时，即使你并不认同他的政治立场，也会觉得他这个人极具魅力，他身上有种独特的吸引力。

One of the things they always say about when he was first running for president and back during his political days was people would say that when you're in his presence, even if you didn't like him politically, he was tremendously charming as a person and that there was something about him that was sort of just like charismatic in that way.

我觉得你们俩都提到罗伯特·格林，这很有趣。

I think it's interesting you were both mentioning Robert Greene.

我们没有他的确切出生时间，但有趣的是，他的三本书名都可能与天秤座的关键词相关。

We don't have a birth time for him, but it's interesting that all three of his book titles relate potentially to like Libra keywords.

就像《权力的48条法则》。

It's like the 48 laws of power.

所以其中一条是《33种战争策略》。

So laws, one of them is the 33 strategies of war.

这不仅仅是战争本身，而是战争的策略。

So it's not just war itself, it's like strategies of war.

最后，他的一本书叫《诱惑的艺术》。

And then finally, one of his books was the art of seduction.

所以‘诱惑’是另一个有趣的、与天秤座相关的关键词。

So seduction is another interesting like Libra type type keyword.

就像对啊。

Like Yeah.

他听起来好像有一些天秤座的星盘配置。

He Sounds like he has some Libra placements.

肯定有。

He must.

是的，有可能。

Yeah, potentially.

然后回到你之前说的一件事，兰登，在这一点上，我们可能可以提出的天秤座与天蝎座之间的对比是：天蝎座是紧随天秤座之后的星座，因此它一定具有某种修正或平衡天秤座不同特质的功能。

And then going back to something you were saying earlier, Randon, one of the contrasts at this point that we might come up with with Libra versus Scorpio, Scorpio being the sign that follows after Libra and therefore there must be some corrective function or something that Scorpio balances out that's different from Libra.

当你谈到这一点时，我想到的一件事是，天蝎座非常注重深度，致力于营造情感和情绪的深度。

One of the things I was thinking about when you're talking about that is Scorpio tends to focus very much on depth and creating a depth of feeling and depth of emotion.

我认为其中一种可能的修正功能是，天秤座虽然社交性强，渴望在人与人之间建立联系，但在某些方面类似于双子座，更像是社交蝴蝶，与很多人建立短暂甚至有时略显肤浅的关系。

I think one of the corrective functions that might be having is that sometimes Libra while social and wanting to create connections between people, it can be similar in some ways to Gemini and that it can be more of like a social butterfly and that it's creating these short term or sometimes occasionally somewhat shallow relationships with a bunch of different people.

但它并不一定深入任何一段关系之中。

But it's not necessarily going super into depth with any one of those per se.

而天蝎座作为固定水象星座，由火星守护，几乎像是对天秤座的一种过度修正或平衡。

And that could be something that Scorpio is a fixed water sign ruled by Mars is almost like over correcting or balancing out from Libra.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这是判决之后的复仇。

I mean, it's the revenge after the verdict.

就像是，哦，我不喜欢法官说的话。

It's like, oh, I didn't I didn't I didn't like what the judge said.

所以我赢了，报了仇之类的。

So then I like win and got revenge kind of.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

就像，是的。

Like like Yeah.

我喜欢你刚才说的，克里斯。

I like what you were saying there, Chris.

我认为另一个可能的平衡点是，天秤座太过追求平衡，反而可能把自己分散得太广，试图让一切保持完美的和谐与平衡，而天蝎座则不怕走向极端，不怕让激情主导一切，说白了，也许我没有时间应付所有人或所有事，但我只专注于这些人和这件事。

And I think another maybe corrective one too is like with Libra trying to balance things out so much, it can maybe spread itself a little too thin trying to keep everything in perfect harmony and balance, whereas Scorpio isn't afraid to go to an extreme, isn't afraid to, like, let their passion sort of drive their ship and say, you know, maybe I don't have time for everything or everyone, but these hand this handful of people and like this thing are what I'm going for.

是的。

Yeah.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

所以天秤座试图

So Libra and trying

保持平衡有时会把事情分散得太过广泛，而天蝎座则可能倾向于打破平衡，走向极端，这与天秤座认为合适的程度相比可能截然不同。

to keep things balanced sometimes can spread things out quite a bit versus Scorpio's tendency might be to unbalance the scales and to go to such an extreme that might be very different compared to what Libra for or would feel appropriate in terms of going that far.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为天秤座很在意别人的想法。

And I think Libra does care what other people think.

天秤座确实希望被喜欢。

Like, Libra does want to be liked.

也许你可以回答一下，克里斯，因为你是个天蝎座。

And maybe I don't know, maybe you could answer Chris, because you're a Scorpio.

但没错，我不确定天蝎座是否像天秤座那样在意别人对他们的看法，你知道的。

But yeah, it was like, I don't know if Scorpio cares as much as Libra about what people think of them, you know.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得一个有趣的对比是，一个拥有大量天蝎座配置的人，可能有着哥特风格的审美，这种风格很多人会觉得令人不适，或者天秤座会觉得不妥，但天蝎座却反而乐在其中，热衷于做那些看似怪异、奇特、阴暗的事情——虽然‘忧郁’这个词可能不太准确，但大致属于这个范畴，这与天秤座追求和谐美感的倾向形成了鲜明对比。

I think one of the funny contrasts that that immediately makes me think of is like somebody that has a lot of Scorpio placements and has like, let's say like a goth aesthetic which let's say most people might find like off putting or something like that or that Libra might find off putting, but that Scorpio almost like revels in that in doing the thing that seems odd or strange or dark or morose isn't the right keyword, but something sort of in that sort of general field and that that's also very contrasting with Libra and it's more sort of harmonious aesthetic inclinations.

确实如此。

Definitely.

对。

Yeah.

我认为对天秤座的一个批评是，他们太在意外表了。

I think that that's one of the criticisms against Libra is because Libra does care about presentation.

当然，理解事物如何被接收或感知，这对天秤座来说是一种优势。

And and of course, like understanding how things are gonna be received or perceived, that can be an asset for Libra.

你知道，这种特质对他们来说是一种策略性的优势，尤其是在他们作为本位星座的特质上。

You know, that can be something that is strategic for them in that cardinal sort of yeah.

他们是本位星座，像摩羯座一样，有一种向上攀登的倾向，而天秤座确实很在意这一点。

They're cardinal like Capricorn, like that climbing sort of way that Libra does care about.

但这也可能把事情压制得太过分，稍微稀释了它的强度。

But it can also sort of temper things down too much, like dilute dilute the potency a little bit.

当天秤座试图取悦所有人时，他们会失去自我，也失去了使他们独特的那份火花。

When Libra tries to be liked by everyone, you know, then it they sort of lose themselves, and they lose that spark that makes them special.

我认为这也是太阳在天秤座落陷的部分原因——为了迎合他人而过度淡化事物，反而失去了那种个体的独特力量。

I think that's part of why the sun has its fall in Libra too is that sometimes watering things down too much for the sake of being well received or well liked, it sort of loses that that individual potency.

而且，是的，这确实是某种……你请说。

And, yeah, that that is something that oh, go go ahead.

没错。

Right.

如果你太在意别人的想法，自己的光芒就可能无法像原本那样充分闪耀。

If you're if you're too preoccupied with what other people think, then your own light may not have a chance to shine through as much as as it would otherwise.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

And Yeah.

我认为这是天秤座在某个阶段会面临的困境，尤其是天秤座太阳的人，就是知道，选择做真实的自己。

And I think that that is something that Libra struggles with at some point, especially Libra Sun people is like, know, choose choosing to just be yourself.

你知道的？

You know?

因为我知道，当我年轻的时候，这也是我曾经挣扎的问题。

Because I I know that that was something I struggled with when I was younger.

你就会开始以别人眼中的你来定义自己。

It's just like, you know, you sort of start defining yourself by who you are to other people.

而最终，你知道，这种状态是会改变的。

And eventually, you know, that can change.

但我认为这是天秤座容易陷入的困境，也是我们看到天秤座太阳落陷或低落的一种方式。

But I think that's something that Libra can struggle with and that's one way that we see Libra having its sun in fall or depression.

我在想，这和水瓶座形成对比。

Well, I'm thinking about this like in contrast to Aquarius.

而水瓶座则完全不同，他们总是说：我就是我，别无他人。

And Aquarius is so much like, oh, I'm I'm myself and no one else.

他们几乎有一种强烈的个性情结。

And, like, I'm like an individuality complex almost about them.

但我认为，作为社交的风象星座，水瓶座其实也很注重社交。

But I think, yeah, being social air signs, Aquarius is also a social sign.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

这是一种人。

It's a person.

但即便如此，这种自我仍然是通过与他人、社会和文化的关系来定义的。

Still somehow that self is defined by the relationship to other people, to society, to culture.

我认为，反主流文化是成为水瓶座极其重要的一部分。

Being countercultural is such an important part of being an Aquarius I think.

抱歉给任何此刻想反驳我的水瓶座带来困扰。

Sorry for any Aquariuses listening who want to disagree with me right now.

我同意。

I agree.

有很多水瓶座会从原则上反对你，但这正是重点。

There's a lot of Aquariuses that would disagree with you on principle, but that's the point.

是的。

Yeah.

水瓶座是狮子座的对立星座，而太阳在狮子座处于落陷或对立状态。

Aquarius being the sign opposite to Leo where the Sun has its detriment or its antithesis.

而且，水瓶座常常希望通过与众不同、特立独行来凸显自己，有时通过拒绝社会规范来实现——这正是典型的水瓶座和土星特质，因为土星是水瓶座的传统守护星。

And yeah, Aquariuses do want to oftentimes stand out by setting themselves apart and standing out from the crowd by doing the thing sometimes by rejecting social convention can be a very Aquarius and Saturn type thing with Saturn being the traditional ruler of Aquarius.

而天秤座通常并不是拒绝社会规范，反而是拥抱社会规范，有时甚至会成为定义社会规范的人。

Whereas Libra seems like it's not Usually, it's not rejecting social convention, but instead it's like embracing social convention or sometimes being the one that's establishing even what the social convention is.

对。

Right.

因为那里有金星的影响。

Because of the Venusian influence there.

而水瓶座会说，我格格不入，但我就是喜欢这样。

Whereas, yeah, Aquarius would be like, I don't fit in and I love it.

天秤座会说，我格格不入。

Libra would be like, I don't fit in.

我简直身处地狱。

I'm in hell.

我现在穿的这身衣服太不对了。

I'm wearing the wrong thing right now.

我简直不敢相信自己居然打扮成这样就出来了，你知道吧。

Like I can't believe I showed up looking like this, you know.

我觉得天秤座会给人一种典型的受欢迎女生的感觉。

I think Libra gets that like stereotypical like popular girl.

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

就像电影里那种女孩，你知道的，如果你穿着不符合某种标准就不能和我们坐在一起，而天秤座就有点这种刻板形象。

Like, the girl who, like, we see in movies where, you know, you can't sit with us if you're not dressed a certain way or, you know, Libra sort of gets that archetype.

这可以说是天秤座的一个负面刻板印象，就是那种肤浅。

And that's sort of one of the, I guess, negative connotations of Libra is like that superficiality.

但again，这并不总是源于肤浅。

But again, it's it's not it's not always like coming from a place of superficiality necessarily.

就像，是的。

It's like yeah.

试图去迎合每一个人。

Like trying to trying to be trying to be like something to everybody.

是的。

Yeah.

然后就这样在过程中失去了实质内容。

And then just kind of, again, like losing substance in the process.

没错。

Exactly.

可能很难。

Can be tough.

做天秤座可能是一种挑战。

Can be a challenge being a Libra.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，你说吧。

So what go ahead.

哦，我想说，我喜欢你把天秤座和水瓶座联系起来这一点。

Oh, I was gonna say, but I like that bringing in that connection with Aquarius.

因为当我想到人类星座、科技和创新时，我对水瓶座的象征有很多困惑，其中让我印象深刻的是，你知道，这是一个男人拿着水并将其带回社会。

Because when I think about the human signs and technology and innovation, I I think there's a lot of confusion about the Aquarius symbol, and one of the things that stands out to me is that, you know, this is a man carrying an of water and bringing it back to society.

我认为这就像一种技术，比如一个可以盛水并将水从水源带到其他地方的花瓶。

And I think that that is a piece of technology, like a vase that can that can hold water and bring it away from the water away to somewhere else.

因为数百万年来，人类必须依水而居，否则就会死亡。

Because for eons, you know, humans had to live on a water source or die.

你知道的。

You know?

所以，当人类发展出这种能运输水的陶器时，或者看看古希腊和古埃及的引水渠，引水渠的象征也是一种技术——能够运输水的能力。

And so to to develop, like, this piece of pottery that could transport water or, you know, even looking at ancient, like, Greece and Egypt, the aqueducts, the symbol of the aqueducts is also, like technology, the ability to transport water.

而天秤座代表天平，这也是人类的发明，这非常有趣。

And Libra being a scale, which is also like a human invention, which is which is pretty fascinating.

所以我认为，智力确实是让我们区别于动物界的关键所在。

So I think that there's definitely a connection there on like intellect as the thing that sets us apart from the animal kingdom.

这就是为什么我们被称为人类星座。

And that's why we are the human signs.

嗯。

Mhmm.

水星在这一切中扮演了什么角色吗？

Does Mercury play a role in all of this?

某种意义上，它像是三合主星。

Somehow it's like a triplicity ruler.

这变得太专业了。

This is getting too technical.

不，我认为这连接了我们正在讨论的三个星座，因为我们在本系列中一直在做的一件事就是以每个星座自身的特质来讨论它，同时通过与其他星座相似的特质进行比较，或与该星座不具备的特质进行对比。

No, I think that connects all three of the signs that we're talking about because it's one the things we do in this series is kind of do what we've been doing which is talking about the sign and its qualities in its own terms, but then also by comparison with similar qualities that other signs have or by contrasting different qualities that the sign doesn't have.

所以到目前为止，我们实际上是在讨论整个风象三合组。

So it seems like at this point, we're really talking about the entire aerotriplicity.

你们俩都提到了一个很好的观点：风象三合组的三个星座，几乎都有一种技术性成分，即把技术作为一种工具，用来建立或实现不同的目标？

And that's a good point that both of are making that all three of the aerotriplicity signs, there's almost a technological component of using technology as a tool in order to establish or or accomplish different things?

是的。

Yeah.

以某种方式推动社会进步。

To like advance to advance society in some way.

比如，我觉得天秤座代表的是推动文明发展的社会秩序，而水瓶座则像是基础设施，能够将这种秩序应用到整个系统或社会中。

Like, you know, going from like a like, I just think of of Libra as being like the social order that sort of advanced civilization and then Aquarius being like the infrastructure, like being able to take that and apply it to, like, a system or a society.

所以，没错，社会意识绝对是空气元素中非常重要的部分。

So, yeah, definitely social awareness is like a huge thing for the air element for sure.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我觉得在考虑黄道图像时，天秤座有点特别。

And I feel like Libra kind of thinking about like the zodiac images.

双子座的工具是什么？

What is Gemini's tool?

一旦我们到了天秤座，就有了天平，而到了水瓶座，则有了水罐。

It's like once we hit Libra, we have the scale and then with Aquarius, we have a vase.

但双子座只是人与人之间的关系。

But Gemini just they have relationship between people.

他们彼此相连。

They have each other.

我觉得，一旦我们进入白羊座这个风象星座，就会发生一些变化。

It's like, I feel like once we hit the cardinal air sign, something happens.

我们在与它互动。

We're doing something with it.

我们在与风元素互动。

We're doing something with with the air.

而之前在双子座，作为第一个风象星座，真正存在的只是风元素本身。

Whereas before with Gemini, the first air sign, there's really just kind of like the the element of air itself.

我不确定。

I don't know.

是好奇心。

The curiosity.

或者只是语言。

Or just words.

我的意思是，双子座有时就是语言，这既是它的优点，有时也是缺点，因为它有时只剩下语言。

I mean, Gemini sometimes is is words is what it has both as a good thing as well sometimes as a as a bad thing that sometimes all it has is words.

是的

Yeah.

我觉得双子座有一种好奇和摆弄的成分，比如‘嘿，我们来看看这个是做什么的’。

And I think there's just like this curiosity tinkering component with Gemini of like, hey, let's find out what this does.

这可能会导致在三合组后期的发明。

And that might lead to the later inventions in later in the in the triplicity.

对。

Right.

这到底意味着什么？

Like, what does it actually mean?

这个词和那个词有什么区别？

Like, what is this word versus this word?

词语之间的那种关系性，再往上就是水瓶座。

The relational kind of the quality between words and then greater than that would be Aquarius.

真有趣，这期是关于天秤座的，我们却一直在谈天秤座与其他所有星座的关系。

It's so funny that this is the Libra episode and we're just talking about the relationship of Libra to all the other signs.

对。

Right.

我们非常关注这一点。

We're very concerned about that.

是的。

Yeah.

天秤座是你真正开始意识到，事物的存在往往依赖于与其他事物的对比的节点。

Well, Libra is the point at which you really fully start to realize that something only exists sometimes by comparing it in relation to something else.

如果世界上只存在唯一的一样东西，你几乎无法感知或拥有同样的存在感，因为没有任何其他事物可以作为参照进行相对比较。

And if there was only like one thing that ever existed, you almost wouldn't know or wouldn't have the same sort of existence because there would be nothing else outside of it to compare it to relatively speaking.

也许‘相对性’是天秤座的一个很好的关键词——世界上的一切都相对于其他事物而存在，时刻保持这种相对性的观念，贯穿于存在各个层面，这或许是天秤座的核心本质。

Maybe that's a good keyword for Libra is that everything in the world is relative to something else and keeping that idea of of almost relativity in mind, in many different levels of existence might be almost something that's inherent to Libra as as a core concept.

是的。

Yeah.

天秤座就像一面镜子，是黄道十二宫中第一个形成对立的星座。

And Libra is like the mirror, you know, being like the first opposition through the zodiac.

我想说的是，克里斯托弗·伦斯特伦曾提到过，当你手持金星时，它看起来就像一面镜子。

And I wanna say it was Christopher Renstrom who who mentioned that, you know, like Venus when you if you were to hold it, it looks like a mirror.

这真的很酷。

And that that was really cool.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得我是在他那里听到这个说法的。

I think I heard that from him.

你是说金星的符号或图形吗？

The glyph or the symbol for Venus, you mean?

是的。

Yes.

而且，想到天秤座是一个与关系相关的星座，我们的关系正是我们拥有的最亲密的镜子。

And how, you know, thinking about Libra as as a relationship related sign and how our relationships are the most intimate mirrors that we have, you know.

比如，通过与他人交谈，你会对自己或自己的想法有更深入的理解。

Like, you have a better understanding of of yourself or ideas even, like, in in conversation with another person.

我认为天秤座也非常在意别人对某件事的看法。

And I think that that's something that that Libra really cares a lot about too is, you know, what other people what other people think about something.

天秤座真的很在意他人的意见，不仅因为这能反映自己，更因为这有助于更深入地理解任何事情。

Like, Libra really cares about other people's opinions, not just for how that reflects on on themselves, but for getting an a better understanding of anything.

你知道，天秤座喜欢了解别人对某件事的看法，因为这能提供更多信息。

You know, Libra likes to understand what other people think about something because, yeah, it's it's more information.

天秤座是风象星座，这一点常常被忽视：很多天秤座其实非常聪明，甚至相当书呆子气。

And Libra being an air sign, I think that's something that's really overlooked about Libra is that a lot of them are really brainy and really, really, like, nerdy Libras actually.

他们只是渴望学习，渴望理解。

And just wanting to learn, wanting to understand.

理解他人对某件事的立场，能够拓宽你对这件事本身的概念性认知。

And understanding someone else's position on something can sort of broaden your own conceptual understanding of something.

这就是为什么天秤座会有‘两面性’的说法，就像总是扮演魔鬼代言人那种刻板印象。

It's where we get the both sides isms of being a Libra, the devil's advocate kind of stereotype.

我个人会有一些极端的想法。

I'm personally I'll I'll have these kind of extreme ideas.

你知道，我有水星和火星在天蝎座合相，有时候会想得太过头。

You know, I have I have Mercury, Mars, conjunction, Scorpio, and I'll get, like, really way ahead of myself with some things.

然后我就需要找人聊聊这些。

And then I I need to talk to someone about it.

一旦有人能和我一起思考这些问题，我就能稍微平复一下想法的激烈程度，更好地理性分析。

And then as soon as I have, like, someone else to, like, consider these things with, I'm kind of I'm able to, like, dial down the intensity of my ideas and and rationalize things a little bit better.

但我觉得，作为天秤座，这种来回拉扯是常态，试图弄清什么是真相，当然，一切都很相对。

But it's it's a constant back and forth with being a Libra, I think, and trying to figure out what what the truth is, but it is all relative, of course.

完全对。

Totally.

是的。

Yeah.

天秤座喜欢把事情聊清楚。

Libras love talking things out.

哦

Oh,

是的

yeah.

尤其是月亮在天秤座的人，他们需要把事情说出来。

Especially Libra Moon, like they need to talk it out.

很有趣的是，我经常听到关于天秤座位置的说法，说他们只是在聊些无关紧要的事，但其实我们之所以要倾诉，是因为我们需要解释并验证自己的思维方式，无论是情感上的还是理智上的。

And it's so funny like, I hear this a lot about Libra placements about how they quote talk about nothing, but we need to talk things out because we need to explain and like validate like our line of thinking about something, whether it's an emotional thing or whether it's an intellectual thing.

我们喜欢说出来，听听别人的观点或看法，因为这能让我们的想法更全面。

We like to talk it out and hear someone else's like take or perspective because it makes our own more well rounded.

对的。

Yeah.

而且这也有助于我们确认自己所说和所想的是真实的。

And it helps us to make sure what we're saying and thinking is real as well.

我觉得这源于落日的影响。

Think it comes from like the fallen sun.

对吧？

Right?

比如，好吧。

Like, okay.

如果别人觉得它是真的，那它就是真的。

Is it it's real if someone else thinks it's real.

它一定是真的。

It must be real.

但我的意思是，人们说的关于天秤座‘空谈’或‘空想’之类的话，其实和这种‘对思想的思想’有关，也就是天秤座那种‘元层次’的特质。我在研究天秤座时，曾关注过一些太阳或星盘受天秤座影响的哲学家，发现很多内容都涉及‘思考思考本身’，以及某些观念的社会影响，而这些可能变成一个观念的黑洞——因为如果太元认知了，听起来就像什么都没说。

But, I mean, talking about nothing and thinking about nothing or whatever people say about Libra, I think, has to do with this this thoughts about thoughts, this sort of, like, metaness to being a Libra where I, in part of my research for Libras, have looked at philosophers that have Libra sun or influence, and a lot of it is, yeah, thinking about thinking and I guess the social implications of certain ideas, which can become like a black hole of ideas because if it's too meta, it just it it can sound like it's about nothing.

它听起来像是自我消解。

It can sound like it cancels it out.

这太令人震撼了。

It's mind blowing.

是的。

Yeah.

这让我想到政治上的那种‘双方都有理’的问题，或者有些人总说双方都在这么做，能看到双方的利弊。

That makes me think of like the political thing about the the both sides kind of issue or people that say both sides are doing that or can see the pros and cons of both sides.

有时候，如果你过于看到双方的问题，可能会导致‘两者都一样’的论调，甚至几乎陷入一种无法判定真相或责任的瘫痪状态——因为你平衡得太多，反而拒绝承认任何一方的问题？

Sometimes that could lead to what aboutism or almost like a paralysis of assigning truth or blame to either side if you can see the issues with both sides too much that you're unable to That you almost balance them too much and refuse to acknowledge the issues on either side in some way?

是的，停滞不前。

Yeah, stagnation.

停滞。

Stagnation.

就是这样。

That's it.

对，没错。

Yeah, yeah.

是的，土星式的，对吧？

Yes, saturnian, right?

对，就是那种因为双方可能性过于平衡而陷入瘫痪、什么都做不了的状态。

Right, of just sort of paralysis at that point of not being able to do anything because the possibilities on both sides are just balanced out too much in some We

这仍然是一个 cardinal sign（ cardinal sign ）。

were still a cardinal sign.

就像是，哦，什么都没发生。

It's like, oh, nothing's happening.

这场辩论毫无进展。

Nothing's moving with this debate.

但可能会有所成果，只是不那么明显。

But something comes of it just might not be so apparent.

对吧？

Right?

就像是一次权力的举动。

Like a power move.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得天秤座确实有这种优柔寡断、倾向于顺从他人的声誉。

I think Libra does like have this reputation for being indecisive and defaulting to being agreeable.

比如，我不知道，你想要做什么？

Like, I don't know, what do you wanna do?

这可能是真的。

And that can be true.

比如，如果天秤座没有强烈的意见或明确的目标，那我们真的不在乎。

Like, if Libra doesn't have, like, a strong opinion or, like, end goal, like, then we really don't care.

我们真的不在乎。

We really don't care.

对吧？

Right?

但天秤座还有另一面，你们俩都提到了，就是唱反调和反派角色，这其实是天秤座很重要的一部分，就是那个喜欢质疑、说‘我不知道’的人。

But there is, like, this other side to Libra that you both are are touching on, which is like the devil's advocate and the contrarian, which is like a big part of being a Libra of just like sort of being the person that challenges and saying, well, I don't know.

你有没有想过从这个角度看待问题？

Like, have you thought about it this way?

你有没有想过从这个角度看待问题？

Have you thought about it this way?

在这种情况下，天秤座根本就不容易妥协。

And in that case, like, Libra is not agreeable at all.

如果你想要抱怨什么，他们其实并不会支持你。

They're not really supportive to you if if you're trying to, like, complain about something.

是的。

Yeah.

扮演魔鬼代言人这一点确实存在。

The devil's advocate thing is real.

对。

Yeah.

这是天秤座原型的一个重要方面，就是魔鬼代言人或反对者。

That's a huge aspect of the Libra archetype, the devil's advocate or the contrarian.

我认为这部分源于这样的观念：白羊座是起点，而天秤座则是到达对立面的时候。

I think that partially comes through that notion of if Aries is the first sign where we start and Libra is where you get to the opposition.

在现代占星学中，天秤座常常被比作对立面，通过制造对比、扮演并承担起论证另一方的角色。

And in some ways in modern astrology, Libra often being likened to the opposition in that way by setting up a contrast or setting up and acting in that role and adopting that role of being like the other side of the argument.

有时天秤座喜欢站在争论的另一方，甚至到了某种程度上变得反叛的地步。

Sometimes Libras love to get into that position of playing the other side of the argument to the point that they can become contrarian in some ways.

我知道在刚开始学习占星时，总是惊讶于遇到的那么多对占星持怀疑态度的人，他们的星盘中都有强烈的天秤座配置。

I know early on in my studies of astrology, was always surprised at how many skeptics of astrology I'd run into that had strong Libra placements.

后来我逐渐明白，这可能与天秤座的反叛特质有关。

And I later sort of came to understand that that might have to do with that contrarian quality of Libra.

是的。

Yeah.

我经常遇到这样的人，他们知道我是占星师后，就会说：‘我不相信占星，我觉得占星是假的。’

I often will meet someone, they find out I'm an astrologer, they're like, oh, I don't believe in astrology or like, I think astrology is fake.

我会说：‘对，你说得对。’

I'm like, yeah, you're so right.

我只是觉得：‘你说得没错。’

I'm just like, you're right.

没错，占星确实很糟糕。

Like, yeah, astrology's bad.

我们会立刻同意他们的观点，尽管我显然并不相信这些。

We'll immediately just agree with them even though I I I obviously don't believe that.

我觉得这也有点像你双子座的月亮。

I think that's a little of your Gemini moon too.

咱们就逗逗他们吧。

Like, let's mess with them here.

或者我其实也明白，他们说这些话并不是那么简单。

Or I actually do see they don't they don't just say that simply.

比如，他们可能会说，哦，你知道吗，有人在Tinder上不滑动我，因为我写了我是双子座。

Like maybe they'll say something like, oh, you know like how people on Tinder will not swipe me because I said that I'm a Gemini.

我会说，你说得对。

I'm like, you're right.

那些人根本不懂占星学。

Those people don't know astrology.

所以我就同意他们的说法。

They and so I'll agree with them.

我会同意这种观点：就这方面而言，占星术以及流行文化对占星术的使用或误用是糟糕的。

I'll agree as astrology in this regard and the way that astrology is used or misused by popular culture is bad.

所以我确实能看到真相，看到那些与我立场对立的人所持的观点。

So I do end up like actually seeing truth and what the opposition or someone who would be seen as like in opposition to me.

我能从他们的话中看到真理，实际上在某种程度上我也同意他们的看法。

I see truth in what they're saying and I actually do agree with them on some level.

然后我可能通过理解和领会他们的观点，最终说服他们接受我的立场。

And then I probably can end up convincing them of my point by conceiving and like understanding what they're saying.

你真是个天秤座。

You're such a Libra.

是的。

Yeah.

就像那种能够保持中立、从他人角度看待问题的能力。

Like the ability to be impartial and like see it from someone else's side.

但很多时候，如果你希望别人从你的角度看问题，这种共情能力本身也可以成为一种说服的杠杆。

But a lot of times that can be, you know, if you are trying to get someone to see it from from your side, that can be a a point of leverage too of just, like, empathizing with them.

但反过来为他们辩解，说如果占星术真的呢？

But then devil's advocating them and saying, but what if astrology was?

就拿这个例子来说吧。

You know, just to use that example.

是的。

Yeah.

这个观点很好，因为从积极的一面来看，天秤座的特质能够产生共情，能够理解他人是一种非常重要的品质，而天秤座可能在这方面比其他许多星座做得更好。

Really good point because on the positive side that Libra archetype can can create empathy and the ability to empathize with other people is like a really important trait and it's something that Libra maybe does better than a number of other signs.

但另一方面，或者说是缺点，就是有时会过于容易受影响，或者陷入这种情境。

But the flip side of that or the downside of that can be sometimes being overly impressionable or you have that scenario.

我在想，最近有几个人就经常被指责这一点，而且确实如此。

I'm thinking there's a couple of recent people where this is actually a common accusation against them which is true.

比如乔·罗根在他的播客里，经常是最后跟他说过话的那个人说了什么，他就把那个观点当成自己的真实想法。

Example, Joe Rogan on his podcast oftentimes whatever the last person said to him, he'll adopt that as what he thinks is true.

他们只是简单地采纳了最近和他们交谈的那个人所说的话，而有时候这些观点可能是完全错误的科学、政治或其他立场。

They'll just sort of adopt whatever it was that the most recent person that they talked to said and sometimes that can just be some wildly wrong scientific or political or other take.

但因为他们进行了那次对话，建立了那种联系，并试图通过共情去理解对方话中的真相。

But because they had that conversation and that one connection and there was that attempt to find through empathy what was the truth in what that person was saying.

有时这会让他们容易陷入甚至接受一些非常糟糕甚至不真实的东西。

Sometimes it can leave them open to getting into or going over to really not great or not even truthful things.

容易被影响。

Being swayed.

容易被影响。

Being swayed.

就是这样。

That's it.

销售。

Sales.

是的。

Yeah.

然后有趣的是，我还想到另一个人，这种情况也一再发生：人们说特朗普就是这样，无论他刚和谁聊过，都会采纳那个人所说的话。

And then it's funny because another person I could think of that was also that was a common thing over and over again was they would say that Trump was like that, that whatever the last person was that he had a conversation with, would adopt that whatever that person had said.

他政治圈里的人不断争取与他面对面交流的机会，因为谁能获得这种机会，就能通过在那时引入想法和概念来影响他说什么、想什么以及官方政策是什么。

People in his political circle were constantly vying for FaceTime with him because whoever could get it could influence what he said and thought and what the official policy was just by introducing ideas and concepts at that point.

他的木星和海王星位于天秤座的第三宫。

He had Jupiter and Neptune in Libra in the third house.

嗯。

Mhmm.

哦，不可能吧。

Oh, no way.

是的。

Yeah.

乔·罗根的月亮也在天秤座。

And Joe Rogan has the Libra Moon.

我以为他可能有什么特别之处，因为我知道他是处女座。

Oh, I thought he might have something because I know he's in Virgo.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以通常，如果你有一个太阳星座，附近通常会有一些其他个人行星。

And so usually, if if you have like a Sun sign, you'll have some other personal planets nearby.

我觉得他是狮子座，但他有三个行星在处女座。

I think he's a Leo, but he has like three planets in Virgo.

啊，明白了。

Ah, okay.

我刚从星象数据银行调出数据，显示这是AA级星盘，这是星盘，如果没错的话。

I just pulled it up from Astro Data Bank and it says it's an AA rated chart, but here's the chart if that's correct.

好的。

Okay.

所以它是金牛座上升，月亮在天秤座，且是夜盘。

So it's a It has Taurus rising and Moon in Libra in a night chart.

因此，月亮实际上是他的命主星。

So the Moon is actually his sect light.

好的。

Okay.