海王星在占星学中的含义与象征

不好意思。

Pardon me.

再贴切不过了。

Couldn't have said it any better.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯，他为那本书花了多久？

Well, he worked on that book for what?

大概十年、十五年，或者二十年左右吧。

Like ten or fifteen years or twenty years or something.

所以他确实花了不少心思，不过这已经很不错了。

So he he put some thought into it, but that's pretty good.

而且它做得特别好的一点是，很好地捕捉到了海王星的一些优点，以及可能存在的缺点，虽然我一时不知道该怎么表达。

And and one of the things that it does very well is capturing both some of the I don't know how to phrase it, but some of the upsides to Neptune and some of the downsides potentially.

称之为整合的、未整合的、健康的、不健康的、阴影的、光明的。

Call it integrated, unintegrated, healthy, unhealthy, shadow, light.

我不喜欢等级制的形式，这种形式往往会引入评判。

It's I I don't like hierarchical forms, and that's a hierarchical form that it tends to import judgment.

对。

Right.

我仍在努力寻找能描述这些事物在其连续体上的词语，因为这确实是一个表现的连续体、光谱。

Still struggling to find the words that describe those things on their continuum because that is a continuum, a spectrum of manifestation.

每个行星、每个星座、每个宫位，所有事物都具有这种表现的光谱。

Every planet, every sign, every house, everything has that spectrum of expression.

所以，是的。

And so, yes.

他涵盖了这一点。

He encompasses that.

当然。

Definitely.

因此，这也是我们在处理这颗行星时会遇到的难题之一，因为海王星显然是一颗非常难以捉摸的行星，要准确界定和表述它的象征意义有时会很困难。

So that'll be one of the things that'll be tricky for us in terms of this planet too because Neptune obviously is a very slippery planet and nailing down its significations and articulating them can sometimes be difficult.

但这就是主要的难点之一，因为它有时表现出建设性的方面，有时则表现出非建设性的方面，中间还有各种状态。

But that's one of the primary difficult things is that it has those sometimes constructive manifestations and less constructive manifestations and everything in between.

中间的所有状态都有。

Absolutely everything in between.

对吧？

Right?

因此，我在占星学教学和与客户交流时，有意不对他们所处的这一光谱位置做出任何评判。

And my intention in my astrology, in my teaching and with clients is to not import judgment one way or the other on the placement of that spectrum that they might be landing.

我们一生中，每一个时刻都可能落在这些光谱的任何位置，无论怎样。

And we land on all those spectrums, can be moment to moment throughout our lives, whatever.

对。

Right.

有些人会困在我们称之为该光谱阴影的那一端，可能就卡在那里了。

So some people get stuck in a place of what we might call the shadow of that in that spectrum, and they might get stuck there.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但我一直努力做到不对这种处境强加评判。

But I really work at not importing judgment into that position.

对的。

Mhmm.

我们会去评判、做出各种判断，这是再自然正常不过的事。

It is it is natural and normal for us to judge or make judgments.

我们也会做出合理健康的判断。

There are healthy judgments we make.

没错。

Mhmm.

是吧？

Right?

大体上来说，就以我作为占星师的身份来说——我只代表我自己——我更希望我的客户们能处在这个区间里的另一个位置上。

And by and large, we as an astrologer for me, I'll speak for me, I would much prefer my clients to be at another position on the spectrum.

对的。

Mhmm.

但我的观点是，他们处于当前的状态，是因为他们需要这样。

But my position also is that they are where they are for the reason they need to be.

嗯。

Mhmm.

作为他们的占星师，给予建议或指导，是为了帮助他们看到光谱的另一端。

And as their astrologer, giving them advice or coaching them is to help show them the other part of the spectrum.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

不要妖魔化他们所处的位置，而是将其视为他们成长的连续体。

And to not demonize where they're at, but to show it as a continuum for their growth.

当然。

Sure.

他们不必被困在那里，也不必对自己进行评判。

And that they don't have to be stuck there, and they don't have to judge themselves.

因为当然，那些经历过我们所谓海王星光谱中较黑暗地带的人——我们所有人，都清楚自己身处其中，除非我们真的处于妄想状态。

Because certainly people who are those of us, all of us who have been in those what we might call the darker places of the Neptune spectrum Mhmm.

除非我们真的处于妄想状态，否则我们都知道自己身在何处。

We know we're there unless we're truly in delusion.

是的。

Yeah.

这有点复杂。

Which is tricky.

有时候，当你经历强烈的海王星相位时，感觉可能非常美好，但你其实处于一种泡沫般的幻觉之中，

Sometimes if you're in a heavy Neptune transit, it can seem very nice, but you can be in a sort of bubble or an illusory sort of bubble that

哦，没错。

Oh, yes.

只有当你走出这个相位后，回过头来看，才会意识到：哦，原来我当时正身处某种并非表面看起来那样的境地，但我当时并没有真正意识到。

It's not until you step outside of that transit that you look back and you realize like, oh, like, I was in the middle of something that was not what it seemed, but I didn't quite realize it.

对。

Right.

在星象过渡期间，这一点非常明确。

That is very clearly true in a transit.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

作为一名占星咨询师，对我来说，我希望能清楚地表达出处于这种幻觉泡泡中的可能性。

And as an as a consulting astrologer, you for me, I wanna make sure that I articulate the potentiality of being in that bubble Mhmm.

即使你走出了这个泡泡，也不要评判自己。

And not to judge oneself even as you get on the other side of that bubble.

对。

Right.

因为你身处这个泡泡是有原因的。

Because you're in the bubble for a reason.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，从实际角度来看，对我来说，重要的是我不认为这个泡泡会消退，但我们身处此处必有原因。

I mean, again, from a practical point of view, for me, it's practical to I don't I don't believe in the faded nature of the bubble, but we have a reason for being where we are.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

因此，在我们意识的成长中，以及在我看来，在我们灵魂的成长中，我们正是落在这个地方，面对这种过渡，我们有多种选择来应对这一系列可能性。

And so in the growth of our consciousness, and for me in the growth of our soul, that's the place we land, and we have a multiplicity of choices in how we're going to deal with, again, that spectrum of how we're gonna deal with that transit.

而当海王星出现在星盘中时，我们会有很多选项和选择。

And then as Neptune in the chart, we're gonna have lots of options and choices.

有时看起来似乎没有，但实际上我们有。

Sometimes they don't seem like it, but we do.

我们在如何运用这种能量方面确实拥有选择。

We do have choices in terms of where we go with that energy.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

所以我在试着回想他提到的一些内容，但先从一些基本原理开始。

So I'm trying to think of some of the things that he mentioned, but just foundational principles to start with.

我经常想到的一个是，海王星代表幻象，这通常是提到海王星时的核心象征关键词之一，而幻象既可以是正面的，也可以是负面的，既有建设性，也有破坏性。

One of them that I often think about is just Neptune as illusion, is like one of the main archetypal keywords that's often mentioned for Neptune is illusion, which can be positive, negative, constructive, destructive.

幻象有不同的运作方式。

There's different ways that illusion can work.

有时候这个术语一开始可能被误解，但它也有积极的含义。

And sometimes that term might get a bad rap initially, but it has positive connotations as well.

我一位已故的老朋友，2010或2011年去世的艾伦·怀特，来自‘前景计划’，他总是用这样一个比喻：当海王星刚被发现时，报纸首次刊登了内战的照片，人们看到后会惊得合不拢嘴，指着照片说：看啊，你真的能看见这个场景，就像你亲临战场一样。

One of my old friends who passed away in 2010 or 2011 actually, Alan White from Project Hindsight, he always used this analogy of he said, when Neptune was first discovered, newspapers first started printing photographs from the civil war and people's jaw would drop because they would point at it and say, Look, you can actually see this scene like you're there in person seeing this battlefield.

他们对这种真实感感到震惊。

And they were just shocked at how real it seemed to them.

但他一直强调的是，这其实并不真实，那只是墨水以某种特定图案喷洒在纸张上，制造出一种你正在目睹真实场景的幻觉，而实际上你并没有。

But then his point was always that it's not real, that what it is is ink that's been sprayed on a piece of paper in a certain design in order to mimic or give you the illusion that you're actually looking at the real scene when in fact you're not.

你只是在看纸上的墨水。

You're just looking at ink on a paper.

我一直认为，这很好地比喻了海王星有时如何制造出看似真实的事物的幻象。

And that was, I always thought a really good analogy of what Neptune does sometimes in creating an illusion of something that seems real.

是的，也许这就是一个起点，即幻象的本质。

And, yeah, maybe that is a sort of starting point, the illusory nature.

我同意。

I agree.

听我说，让我回到EA中一些基础性的根本内容，这些内容是我

And look, let me come back to some basic foundational stuff from EA that is part of my

从进化占星学的角度吗？

From evolutionary astrology?

进化占星学，这是我占星学哲学轨迹的一部分。

Evolutionary astrology that's part of my philosophical trajectory through astrology.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以，虽然我们没有谈论冥王星，但对我而言，冥王星在某种程度上影响着海王星。

So though we're not talking about Pluto, Pluto plays a role in in in Neptune in a way for me.

因此，冥王星代表灵魂，具有两种相互冲突的渴望。

So Pluto representing the soul has two dueling desires.

一种是脱离创造它的源头，另一种是渴望与创造它的源头融合。

One is to separate from the source which created it, and one is the desire to merge with the source that created it.

因此，火星是那种分离欲望的行星功能。

So Mars is the planetary function of the desire to separate.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

我，白羊座，火星，我的意志，我要，我的欲望。

I, Aries, Mars, my will, I will, my desire.

是的。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

海王星代表的是融合的欲望，即放弃自我的独立性，与无限的源头、神圣意识、神或女神，或者你愿意称作的任何宇宙智慧融为一体。

Neptune is the function of the desire to merge and lose the separateness of self to merge with infinite source, divine consciousness, god goddess, whatever universal intelligent, whatever you wanna call that thing

是的。

Mhmm.

源头。

Source.

因此，海王星也代表一种幻觉，即我们是分离的。

So Neptune is also the illusion or represents on one hand the illusion that we are separate.

因为意识演化的进程，就是消解这种分离的幻觉。

Because the process of evolution of consciousness is to dissolve that illusion of separateness.

因此，我们每个人内心都在不断挣扎着这两种欲望：分离的欲望、建立‘我’的欲望、满足自我的欲望、是的。

So we're constantly dueling these desires within every human, the desire to separate, the desire to establish I, the desire to fulfill ego, the desire Mhmm.

而与之抗衡的，是渴望连接、成为某种更大整体的一部分、融合与超越的同等渴望。

And the dueling equal desire to connect, to be part of something, to merge, to transcend.

是的。

Yeah.

超越自己有限的自我，与更具集体性的存在融合，这是一种基本的冲动。

To transcend one's own limited sort of ego and and merge with something more more collective Right.

作为一种基本的驱动力。

As as a basic impulse.

对。

Right.

从佛教的角度来看，这与此相关：在灵魂演化的进程中，分离的欲望会逐渐消退。

And so from, a Buddhist point of view, which kinda comes into this, the nature of separating desires over the course of evolution of soul is that separating desires begin to fall away.

这更接近密教版本或密教路径的佛教，它通过欲望来通向觉悟。

It is for more the tantric version or the tantric path of Buddhism, which approaches enlightenment through desire.

因此，唯一的出路就是穿越它。

So that is through the only way out is through.

正是通过探索欲望的本质，你才能逐渐烧尽这些欲望并将它们抛在身后。

It's it's through the nature of exploring desire that you begin to burn them out and leave them behind.

因此，进化的功能就是摒弃那些分离性的欲望，最终剩下的唯一欲望就是海王星式的欲望。

So that the function of evolution is to leave those separating desires so that the only desire left is the Neptunian desire.

所以，自我并非被消解，而是得到满足。

So the ego becomes fulfilled, not dissolved.

你实际上是在消解自我的幻觉，但同时也创造了它的完整性。

You actually are dissolving the illusion of self, but it also creates its wholeness.

我希望这听起来有些悖论般的道理，因为事实确实如此：在我看来，我们是通过某种方式到来的，自我就像一个透镜，意识、灵魂和自我通过它投射到世界中。

I hope that makes some paradoxical sense because it really is, think of it this way that we come through my belief is we come through there's, the ego is like a lens in which consciousness and soul and self is projected throughout into the world.

在这个透镜上，承载着我们的业力依附、情结、故事和创伤。

On that lens is our karmic attachments and complexes and stories and traumas.

而一个人一生中通过星盘运行所经历的过程，就像一块巨大的砂纸或金刚砂，试图磨去透镜上所有污浊的依附和杂念。

And the course of one's lifetime through transits is like a big sanding sandpaper or diamond grit that's trying to grind off all of that schmutzey on the lens, all those attachments, all those stuff.

因此，这些正是当自我通过透镜投射时被扭曲的部分。

So those are part of the stuff that as ego gets projected through, it gets distorted.

这就是海王星。

This is Neptune.

这些依恋会扭曲它，这些因素也会扭曲它，最终成为我们聚焦的现实滤镜。

Gets distorted through those attachments, gets distorted through those, and those become the reality lens in which we focus on.

因此，对我而言，海王星和外行星——包括土星——都是这种过渡过程中打磨去除的过程的一部分，当我们经历这些星象过渡时。

So Neptune and the outer planets for me are part of including Saturn, part of this transit process of the of grinding away as we move through these transits.

我们正在处理可能源于童年的故事，或是超越童年的故事，以及作为独立个体的自我消解。

We're dealing with stories that may come from our childhood or stories that transcend childhood and that dissolution of the the ego as separate.

但我们之所以能实现作为独立个体的自我消解，是因为自我变得纯净而完整。

But the reason we get to the the the dissolution of ego as separate is that ego becomes clean and whole.

通过一个愈合且完整的自我，我们能够看见我们的神性自我，或看见神，或体验神圣。

And through a healed and whole ego, we are able to see our god self or to see god or to experience divine.

因此，对我而言，海王星正是我刚才所说的一切的核心功能，即意识与灵魂的演化。

So for me, Neptune is a primary function of that of that of what I just said that in terms of the evolution of consciousness and the evolution of soul.

好的。

Okay.

那是什么？

What is that?

这让我想起罗布·汉德常说的话，土星就像现实，或者类似的说法，即一个人对现实的体验，而海王星则让人意识到根本不存在所谓的现实，之类的意思。

Makes reminds me of that statement that Rob Hand would always make that Saturn is like reality or something like that or or one's experience of reality, and then Neptune is one's realization that there is no reality or something something like that.

这个比喻非常贴切，因为土星属于进化占星学。

Well, that's a perfect analogy because Saturn is an evolutionary astrology.

当然，显而易见的是，它是人类肉眼能看到的最后一颗行星。

Certainly, obviously, it's the last planet we see with our eyes.

所以它是最后一颗肉眼可见的行星，再往后的行星就无法用肉眼看到了，对吧？

So it is the last visible planet and then you can't see any other planets beyond that with the naked eye Right.

尽管它们确实存在于那里。

Even though they exist out there.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

所以土星代表了我们所感知到的意识的极限。

So Saturn represent represents the limit of consciousness as we perceive it.

它代表了我们已知的现实。

It represents our known reality.

所有超越这一点的都是未知的。

Everything beyond that is the unknown.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

因此，所有这些都体现了土星所谓的功能失调和阴影——即对超越已知事物的恐惧，以及将已知事物固化以求安全。

And so all of that then encapsulates Saturn's what we might call dysfunctions and shadows around the fear of moving beyond what is known, and then crystallizes what is known to stay safe.

所以海王星、天王星、海王星和冥王星则代表了那些在某种程度上履行其职责的行星，海王星的职责是消解人们对现实的虚假认知。

So Neptune, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto then represent the planets that are doing their job to in some way, Neptune's job is to erode the falseness of one's perceptions of reality.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

因为土星是可见行星中最后一个，在有形可见的世界里，海王星从定义上讲——就像史蒂文·福里斯特曾经告诉我的，天王星在某些条件下偶尔能用肉眼看到，但海王星是第一个完全无法用肉眼观测到的行星。

Because so if Saturn's last visible planet's last thing that's visible in terms of the visible tangible world, then Neptune by definition because Uranus occasionally, like Steven Forrest has mentioned this to me, you can see it sometimes with the naked eye under certain conditions, but Neptune's the first planet where you just cannot see it with the naked eye.

因此，它某种意义上代表着不可见之物、隐藏之物。

Therefore, there's something about it that does represent the intangible or that which cannot be seen, that which is hidden.

这也是为什么它常与灵性或超越性的现实领域联系在一起的原因之一。

And and that's one of the reasons why it gets associated with the sort of spiritual or sort of transcendent sort of realms of reality.

某种程度上，你只能凭信仰去接受，对吧？

You kinda have to take it on faith in a way Right.

如果你没有望远镜的话。

If you didn't have a telescope.

是的。

Yeah.

如果有人告诉你那里有一颗行星，而你又没有技术手段亲自观测到，你就只能相信他们。

If somebody like told you there's a planet out there, you would just have to believe them until you if you couldn't actually have the technology to witness it yourself.

对。

Right.

我从未用望远镜亲自见过海王星。

I I've never seen Neptune with my own personal eyes through a telescope.

所以我虽然看过照片，但我们也知道任何照片都可以被修图。

So I though I've seen photos, we know anything can be photoshopped.

因此，某种程度上，我是在接受天文学家和那些见过它的人的说法，这其中确实带有一种信仰的成分。

So in a sense, you know, I'm taking in the word of astronomers and those who have seen it, and and there is a kind of faith based element in that.

所以对我来说，木星代表信念，海王星代表信仰。

And so where Jupiter for me is belief, Neptune for me is faith.

它超越了自我。

It transcends ego.

木星是内行星。

Jupiter's an inner planet.

它位于土星之内，因此属于我们结构化现实的一部分。

It sits inside Saturn, so it's part of our structured reality.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

所以对我来说，自我被束缚在我所相信为真实的事物中。

So it's ego to me bound in what I believe to be true.

而海王星必须超越这一点，它超越了宗教，进入了灵性领域。

Where Neptune has to transcend that, it goes beyond religion for me and goes into the spiritual realm.

好的。

Okay.

所以也许有些人说，我不信教，但我有灵性，这种区别就在于此。

So maybe the difference between Some people say, I'm not religious, but I am spiritual.

没错。

Correct.

有点像一种区分，比如木星，我昨天和山姆·雷诺兹做了关于木星的那期节目。

Sort of like a distinction there where maybe Jupiter, which I did that episode yesterday with Sam Reynolds on Jupiter.

我们之前聊了很多关于宗教中的木星，以及木星与法律、道德和审判的关系，比如法官传统上就与木星相关。

And we talked a lot about Jupiter in religion and Jupiter in law and morality and judgment, like judges has a traditional association with Jupiter.

但在这里，我们讨论的是，它并没有被正式化为一套明确的规则，而是一种超越现实、在根本层面上具有灵性意义的超越性感知。

But here we're talking about that it's not formalized into like a set of rules necessarily, but instead it's some sort of transcendent sense of that which transcends reality and that which is spiritual in some fundamental underlying sense.

对。

Right.

既然海王星象征着一切已形成事物的消解，那它又怎么可能被结构化呢？

Because how could it be structured if Neptune represents the dissolution of all things all things that are formed?

嗯。

Mhmm.

那么，我们又怎么能以海王星的名义设立一套教条和哲学呢？

How could we then set a level of precepts and philosophies under the Neptune banner?

嗯。

Mhmm.

这必须是木星的范畴，关于真理、信仰、成文的法律，以及某种教义的传授。

It would have to be Jupiter's banner, is about truth and beliefs and codified law and, you know, teaching of something of precepts.

是的。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

所以，有一种信念会融入木星的范畴。

So there is a level of belief that comes into Jupiter.

我必须相信那种哲学，但海王星超越了它。

I have to believe in that philosophy, but Neptune transcends that.

是的。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

那是一种通往某种神秘未形成之境的超越。

I That is a transcendental into some mystical unformed place.

对我来说，那就是凝视着神圣之眼。

It is for me, staring into the eyes of the divine.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

在我和那种体验之间，没有任何牧师、神父或成文的宗教教义作为中介。

There is no minister or priest or codified book of religious precepts between me and that experience.

对。

Right.

在海王星的问题上，没有任何中间人。

There's no middleman when it comes to Neptune.

海王星几乎是一种直接的、有时是启示性的超越性体验。

Neptune is, almost direct sometimes revelatory experience of something transcendent.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

所以，这就是我们获得灵感、想象力和愿景的地方。

So this was where we get inspiration and imagination and visioning.

这是愿景之旅。

It's vision quests.

这些是海王星般的清晰时刻。

It's those moments of Neptunian clarity.

海王星般的清晰与天王星般的清晰非常不同。

And a moment of Neptunian clarity is very different than a Uranian clarity.

嗯。

Mhmm.

天王星般的清晰就像一道闪电划破黑暗。

Uranian clarity is a bolt of lightning lighting up the dark.

海王星的清晰就像站在山间的雾中，或站在水边。

Neptune's clarity is like standing in the fog in the mountains or on the edge of the water.

而且周围是云雾缭绕的。

And it's cloudy or foggy.

你知道，你就置身其中。

You know, you're just in it.

你什么也看不见。

You can't see anything.

同样，你必须相信水是存在的，因为它会扭曲声音。

Again, you have to take on faith that the water is there because it distorts sound.

它会扭曲光线。

It distorts light.

水会扭曲声音。

Sound water distorts.

对吧？

Right?

我们了解水的物理原理。

We know the principles, the physical principles of water.

这其中有一个扭曲的要素。

There's a distortion element.

所以某种程度上，我们必须使用不同于我们视觉和听觉的感知工具。

So in a way, we have to we're called to use different perceptionary tools than what we can see and what we can hear.

对吧？

Right?

所以当雾墙开始消散时，这是一个缓慢的过程。

So when that fog bank begins to clear, it's slow.

是的。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

你看到的雾越来越少，越来越少，最后天空变得湛蓝，一切清晰透彻。

And you see less and less fog, less and less fog, less and then the sky is just blue and everything is crystal clear.

是的。

Right.

这种启示般的清晰正是海王星所代表的，仿佛雾气悄然散去，天使歌唱、号角齐鸣的那一刻。

That's that kind of revelatory clarity that Neptune represents, that moment of of almost as if the fog, drifts away that the angels are singing and the trumpets sound.

你知道，这简直令人敬畏。

You know, it's like this awe inspiring.

你听到我倒吸了一口气。

And you heard me take in my breath.

这就是灵感，吸入神圣的气息。

That's inspiration, breathing in the breath of the divine.

对吧？

Right?

那种启发性的体验，你被蓝色和色彩的景象彻底淹没，这完全是神圣的。

That's that inspirational you're just inundated with the images of the blue and the colors, and it's divine.

对。

Right.

这让我想起，关于突然的暴露和现实的消解，我们一直使用‘消解’这个词。

So that reminds me, in terms of like sudden exposure and dissolution of reality and dissolving of reality, we keep using the word dissolving.

有人在推特上发帖，提到第一个研发LSD的科学家，以及他第一次服用的确切时间，我当时觉得海王星正好在上升点。

Somebody on Twitter posted like the first, the scientist who first, developed LSD and the exact time that that was he first took it, and I think Neptune was like right on the ascendant.

当然。

Of course.

差不多就是这样。

Something like that.

我觉得这是个非常好的例子。

I thought that was a really great example.

是的。

Yeah.

占星术不管用，对吧？

Astrology doesn't work, does it?

不对。

No.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我真的很喜欢这一点，因为这又是另一个突然觉醒、仿佛被带入另一个世界的例子——在做这件事的那段时间里，至少根据我从书上读到的内容，你突然接触到一种不同的现实，你的感官发生了变化，颜色、声音、触觉这些我们习以为常的东西，突然间有了完全不同的感受和体验。

I I really like that because So that's another one of example of of suddenly being aware and like transported to a different world where you you that for a time at least while doing that I guess theoretically from what I read in books that you're suddenly exposed to different type of reality where your senses have been changed and where color and sound and touch and all of those things that we take for granted and we're used to suddenly have a very different sense and a very different feeling suddenly.

是的。

Yeah.

所以对我来说，我不反对使用药物。

So for me, I'm not anti drug.

当然。

Sure.

七十年代的时候，你知道的，我也有过自己的经历。

Back in the seventies, you know, I did my my thing.

好的。

Okay.

行。

Alright.

所以就不多说了。

So without details.

所以我确实从来没试过LSD。

So it is though I've never done LSD.

好的。

Okay.

不知怎的，我知道当时海王星位于天底，与月亮形成对冲，并且与海王星有多个相位，这可能不是个好主意。

Somehow I knew with a Neptune on the nadir opposed the moon and multiple aspects to Neptune that it probably wasn't a good idea.

是的。

Yeah.

因为你所做的，无论是外部的还是人为的——我并不是说用有机或天然物质就是人工的，但你是在人为地加速海王星的过程。

And because what you're doing is externally or artificially, and I don't mean artificial in the sense that you can do use organic elements and natural elements to do it, but you're you're artificially jump starting the Neptune process.

所以这个过程比海王星自然发挥作用要快一些。

So it happens a bit more rapidly than say the Neptune function on its own.

因为如果我们思考水和海王星的本质，它的作用是缓慢的。

Because if we think about the nature of water and Neptune, its function is slow.

对吧？

Right?

你看到大峡谷。

You see the Grand Canyon.

你看到水长期持续滴落在岩石上所产生的效果。

You see what water does dripping on rock over time consistently.

对。

Right.

水胜过岩石。

Water wins over rock.

水胜过大地。

Water wins wins over earth

嗯。

Mhmm.

只要不筑坝阻止它，水就会持续发挥作用，对吧？你得用更大的力量来对抗水。

Consistently unless you dam it up, right, and put more of a force against water

嗯。

Mhmm.

去抵抗它。

To, resist it.

对吧？

Right?

但随着时间的推移，水会侵蚀混凝土。

But water over time will erode concrete.

你知道，它就是会这样。

You know, it's just it's going to.

所以我有点担心。

So I get concerned a little bit.

我对此完全没有评判，但我确实有点担心，如果自我结构还没准备好，就过早地加速这个过程。

I'm not judgmental about it at all, but I get a little concerned about, jump starting that process a little too quickly, particularly if an ego the ego structure is not ready for that.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

有时，显著的海王星可能表明一种对超凡体验或超越性体验的渴望。

Sometimes, prominent Neptune can indicate sometimes like a longing for like other worldly experiences or transcendent experiences.

而有时负面的一面是，人们可能会陷入捷径，比如药物、酒精或其他成瘾行为。

And sometimes the downside can be that sometimes people can get stuck, with shortcuts, which can be things like like drugs or or alcohol or other sort of addictive behaviors.

性呢？

Sex?

当然。

Sure.

任何成瘾的东西都可能如此。

Like anything that Addictive.

任何能带来替代性体验、近乎超越性体验的事物，都可能非常上瘾。

Can be addictive or that can give, some sort of alternative, like, experience of reality or almost to experience of something transcendent, and that can be very addicting.

这又回到了我之前说的，灵魂中相互冲突的欲望。

Well, comes back to what I said about the dueling desires within the soul.

海王星代表了融合的欲望。

Neptune represents the desire to merge.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

融合的欲望。

Desire to merge.

这个词用在海王星上很贴切。

And that's a good word for Neptune.

对吧？

Right?

消解界限，融合一体。

To dissolve boundaries, to merge.

在一个高度分离的世界，或者说分离的幻象中——如果我们回到‘幻象’这个词，想到墨水在纸上的样子，分离只是一种幻象。

And in a very separated world or the illusion of a separated world, if we come back to that word illusion and thinking about that ink on the paper, it's an illusion of a separation.

海王星的作用就是消解这种幻象，揭开面纱。

And Neptune's process is to dissolve the illusion, to dissolve the veil.

所以，你知道，对我来说，进化才是胜利者。

So, you know, I I evolution to me wins.

如果我要想一个世界的命运，那就是进化。

If I think of one fate in the world, that that's evolution.

对吧？

Right?

它终将发生。

It's just gonna happen.

嗯。

Mhmm.

也许它的启动也是这个过程的一部分。

And maybe the jump starting of it is part of the process.

再说一遍，我对这个没有评判，但你可能会被抛入某种连自我结构都还没准备好面对的事情中，嗯。

Again, I don't have judgments about that, but you can get thrown into something the ego structure isn't prepared to see Mhmm.

或者应对。

Or deal with.

你可能会让自己陷入一团糟，然后用这种方式来逃避现实

And you can get yourself in a a world of trouble, and then you can use that as a form of escapism

对

Right.

却没有真正去面对和解决问题。

Without really doing the work.

因此，渴望与某种事物融合，可以表现为各种各样的行为方式。

And so the desire to merge with something can be done again at a full spectrum of behavior.

对吧？

Right?

所以，通过性来融合的渴望，通过药物来融合的渴望，通过连接某种事物的渴望，而自我结构却过于恐惧，不敢自己迈出这一步。

So the desire to merge through sex, the desire to merge through drugs, the desire to connect to something, and, the ego structure too fearful to make that leap for itself.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我的意思是，这只是其中一种解释，但它可能出于无数种原因。

I mean, any I mean, that's just one narrative about it, but it can be for any number of reasons.

我们知道海王星也代表了逃避的倾向，即否认现实、从一种现实逃往另一种现实，逃避当下，遁入另一个世界。

And we do know that Neptune also represents the escapist tendency, the the denial process to escape from one reality to another, to escape one's moment and to to skip off into another.

这种逃避可以通过想象来实现。

And that can be through imagination.

但同样，想象、灵感、幻觉，这些都有促进我们成长的功能。

But again, imagination, inspiration, illusion, all of these have functions that serve our growth Mhmm.

它们也不应被否认。

And they are not to be denied either.

是的。

Yeah.

甚至像梦境，它是一个必要的组成部分——如果你不睡觉，不进入足够深的睡眠来做梦，你会发疯的。那种超现实的梦境体验，无论我们梦中去了哪里，那种超越现实、能做任何事、体验任何不同感受的感觉。

Or even like like dreams, like the necessary component that it it's like you will go crazy if you don't sleep and go into a deep enough sleep that you dream and just the otherworldly sort of experience of having dreams and whatever that is and wherever we go when we have dreams, but that feeling of transcending things and being able to do anything or have any sort of different experience, through the the dream state.

太棒了。

Fantastic.

对。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

当我们谈论疯狂和 insanity 时，对我来说，这也是海王星的一部分。

And and so when we think about insanity and crazy, that's that's Neptune too for me.

你知道， insanity 是它光谱的一部分，从完全疯狂一直延伸到开悟和与神的连接。

You know, that's the the that's part of its spectrum of, you know, the insanity falls on the the spectrum of all the way up to enlightenment and connection to God.

当然。

Sure.

那么，关于可能被困在一种替代现实甚至虚假现实中的情况呢？

So in terms of like maybe being stuck in a alternative or even false reality or something like that?

当然。

Sure.

好的。

Okay.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

但你知道，逃避、想象、否认都有它们的作用。

But you know, escapism, imagination, denial all have their functions.

它们在某种程度上都为我们服务。

They all serve us in some way.

人类所创造的一切，无一不是先在某处被想象或构想出来的。

There is nothing that humans have ever created that wasn't imagined or envisioned somewhere.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

我们得 somehow 看到它。

We have to we have to see it somehow.

在它成为现实之前，我们必须先有灵感。

We have to have inspiration for it before it becomes manifest.

所以，如果一个孩子生活在贫困中，或处于糟糕的境遇中，或者一个人陷入一段可怕的关系，觉得无法脱身

So this that's and then if we are in if a child's in a in poverty or in a horrible situation or, a person is in a horrible relationship where they feel they can't get out

嗯。

Mhmm.

有时，面对这种现实的唯一出路就是想象，他们逃往自己的幻想世界。

Sometimes the only way out in living that reality is to imagine, and they escape to their imaginary world.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们可能会被困在毫无前途的工作中，害怕离开，因为这份工作提供了保险和401(k)退休计划，给了我们一种稳定感，不至于打破现状，但这种生活却是死气沉沉的。

So we can get stuck in dead end jobs where we are fearful of leaving because it gives Us insurance and a four zero one k or it gives us that sense of consistency and it's not rocking the boat, but it's dead.

对吧？

Right?

然而，我们可能每天去上班，坐在电脑前，或者做着其他枯燥的工作，数着豆子，同时幻想自己——我不知道，你们中有些可能太年轻，没听过沃尔特·米蒂。

And yet, they we might go to work and sit at our computer or whatever it is we're doing counting beans and imagine ourselves like, I don't know, some of you might be too young, but Walter Mitty.

你知道的，《沃尔特·米蒂的神秘生活》。

You know, The Secret Life of Walter Mitty.

想象一下你自己在世界的某个地方做着一些英勇或极具创造力的事情，这也就是你所说的梦想为我们所做的事情。

Imagine yourself somewhere in the world doing some heroic thing or some wildly creative thing, and that's what dreams do for us as well is what you're saying.

这是一个让我们摆脱束缚的地方，是的。

It's a place where we become untethered Mhmm.

脱离现实的束缚。

From the bounds of reality.

梦境是我们可以实现意识和潜意识所能想象的任何事情的地方。

And dreams are a place where we can do anything that our consciousness and unconsciousness can possibly imagine.

是的。

Mhmm.

因此，它以一种让自我结构脱离其现实世界来体验的方式发挥作用。

So it is the it it serves the ego structure in the way to untether itself from its world to experience.

它同时也是一种处理日常生活的途径，帮你理清思绪。

It also serves as a way of processing, you know, our daily lives and working things out.

我的意思是，梦想正如你所说，对我们自身的生存至关重要。

Mean, dreams serve they are fundamental to our very survival as you say.

是的。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

有趣的是，我经常把天王星视为象征解放的行星，它与自由相关，尤其是那种突然、意外甚至暴力地推翻束缚以实现自由和解放的方式。

It's interesting that because I often think of like Uranus as the liberatory planet that's associated with freedom and especially sudden unexpected even violent overthrows of one's restrictions in order to achieve freedom and liberation.

但听起来，自由也是我们在这里讨论的某些内容背后的一个组成部分，与海王星有关——它让你进入一个比所谓现实世界拥有更多自由的领域，某种程度上，这确实包含了一种自由的成分。

But it sounds like freedom is another component here that we're talking about underlying some of this stuff with Neptune that it's like giving you access to a realm where you have way more freedom than you do in the in the real quote unquote real world, and there's a a freedom component to that in some sense.

我从未真正这样想过，也许在其他表达方式中有所涉及，但我完全同意，因为你已经摆脱了束缚。

I've never actually thought of that, maybe in some other languaging of that, but I agree 100% because you are untethered.

对。

Right.

你摆脱了物理法则的束缚

You're untethered from the bounds of physics

是的。

Mhmm.

物理定律、你对自身认知的局限，以及对任何事物的限制。

Physical law, limitations of mental perceptions of what you know, of anything.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

在我的梦里，我可以穿过那面墙。

In my dream, I could walk through that wall.

在这个梦里，我可以漂浮。

In this dream, I could levitate.

你知道的。

You know?

在梦里，我可以做任何事，去宇宙中的任何地方。

In a dream, I could do anything, be anywhere in the universe.

对。

Right.

生活中某些成分是治愈性的，或是必需的，无论通过阅读书籍、阅读小说从而被带入另一个世界，还是看电影，电影是非常海王星式的东西，因为我最近读到一些关于电影理论的内容，谈到在看电影时，信念的悬置是多么重要，你必须能够暂时放下怀疑。

And there's something that's like healing or or necessary that component to have that in certain doses in one's life, whether it's through like reading a book, reading like fiction and being transported to a different world or even movies, film is a very Neptunian thing because I was reading something about film theory recently about how important suspension of belief is when you're watching a movie that you have to be able to suspend belief.

电影的有效性部分取决于导演创造一个可信世界的能力，无论那个世界中的事物多么怪异，观众都能沉浸其中，并暂时忘记不相信叙事中的某些部分，或者他们所拥有的东西

It's actually the effectiveness of the movie is partially dependent on how well the filmmaker can create a world that is believable no matter how weird stuff is in that world, but that the person can immerse themselves in it and contemporarily sort of forget about, not believing certain components of the narrative or what They have

必须信以为真。

have to buy in.

是的。

Yeah.

必须信以为真

Have to buy

并且他们必须跟随这个富有想象力的叙事。

in and they have to go along with the imaginative narrative.

对吧？

Right?

他们必须投入其中。

That's that they have to step in.

他们通过电影、书籍、音乐和艺术，邀请人们进入他人的想象世界。

They have their movies and books, music and art, are an invitation to step into somebody else's imaginal world.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

再次提醒，你们的一些观众可能太年轻，没读过《乔纳森·利文斯顿·海鸥》，这是一本老书。

Again, some of your audience may be too young for this, but if you haven't read Jonathan Livingston Siegel, it's an old book.

我一时想不起作者的名字了。

I'm just forgetting the author.

这是我16岁时读的第一本书之一。

It's one of the first books I read at 16.

这是本小说。

It's fiction.

它当时在书店里。

It was in the bookstore.

这本书是以乔纳森·利文斯顿海鸥的视角写的。

It was it is it is from the view of Jonathan Livingston's seal.

这是一只海鸥。

It's a seagull.

好的。

Okay.

对吧？

Right?

还有乔纳森所拥有的那些形而上的领悟。

And the metaphysical perceptions that Jonathan has.

嗯。

Mhmm.

书中有一部分讲的是电影、信念的悬置与想象力，以及我们被什么样的电影吸引，这取决于我们做出的选择。

And one of the sections in the book is about movies and the suspension of belief and imagination, and what movies we are drawn to, in terms of the choices that we make.

比如，如果你喜欢恐怖片，或者更偏爱爱情片、喜剧片、科幻片或纪录片，你知道的。

For instance, if your genre is horror movies or if you prefer, romance or comedies or sci fi or documentaries, you know.

所以我喜欢这样的书。

So I love books like that.

我的意思是，我读过很多纯粹的心理学、灵性和形而上学的书，但我更爱那些融入这些概念的虚构故事。

I mean, I've read a lot of straight psychology, spiritual, metaphysical, but I love I love stories that are that are fiction that bring in those concepts.

简·罗伯茨以塞思名义写的作品很难读，但她写过一些虚构小说，比如《七重超灵的教育》。

Jane Roberts work from Seth, is a tough read, but wrote books that were fiction, The Education of Oversoul Seven.

这是我年轻时在书店读过的另一本书。

It was another book I read, when I was young in the bookstore.

嗯。

Mhmm.

几年前我偶然发现的另一本小说是《雨中的爱犬》，作者是另一位西雅图作家，整本书通过一只名叫恩佐的狗的视角讲述，它希望在下一生转世为人。

Another fiction I found just a few years ago was The Art of Racing in the Rain by another Seattle author who the book is spoken through and is through the eyes of the dog, Enzo, and how he wants to incarnate next lifetime as a human.

书中融入的形而上学原则是，你必须暂时搁置怀疑，接受一只狗能说话、能写书这一设定，对吧？

And the metaphysical principles that are brought into that are, again, you have to suspend your belief that a dog is talking and writing a book Right.

而且它终将转世为人类。

And is going to incarnate as a human at some point.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你必须放下怀疑，打开想象力，去理解海鸥对世界的感知，就像你被作家和导演邀请进入想象世界一样。

You have to suspend your belief and open your imagination to a seagull, and its perceptions of the world just as you have to, you're invited into the imaginal world by a writer and a director.

是的，那就是海王星。

So yes, that's Neptune.

你必须去理解并接受，在那个世界里，就像你有自己的现实一样，但在这个世界或这个替代现实中，有它自己的规则，这些规则与现实世界不同。

And you have to sort of understand and accept that there it's like you have your reality, but that in this world or in this alternative reality, this is the These are the rules there and these are how the rules are different compared to the real world.

你知道，有

You know, there's

或者我们所见的现实世界。

Or the real world as we see it.

对。

Right.

我一直在想，像《纳尼亚传奇》《魔戒》或者最近的《权力的游戏》这样的奇幻小说，那个世界里，龙是真实存在的，还有精灵之类的生物。

Well, I was thinking about like the fantasy books as a genre like the Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings or more recently Game of Thrones and how like in you know, that world, like dragons are a thing that exists or like elves and other

会说话的狮子，是的。

Talking lions and Yeah.

在《纳尼亚传奇》中，我非常喜欢，我的孩子们也喜欢。

In the Chronicles of Narnia and which I loved and my children loved.

你被邀请进入那个世界。

You you have you're you are invited into that world

嗯。

Mhmm.

但你不必接受这个邀请。

And you don't have to accept the invitation.

但如果你被吸引进去，就会有一个地方，在那里，我们中的一些人能看见动物说话，感受到雪花飘落，以及所有这些事物。

But if you're drawn into it, then there is that place where for some of us, we can see and hear the animals talking and feel the snow falling and all of the things.

书籍为你提供了获得视觉元素的空间。

A book gives you the place to get the visual element.

当你看电影时，这些画面是直接呈现给你的。

When you're in a movie, it's given to you.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以他们构建了更多这种虚幻的世界，想象力的世界被丰富起来，让你更容易信服，给你所有的质感、声音和色彩。

So they build more of that illusional world, that imaginative world gets fleshed out for you to be to more readily buy in, gives you all the textures and the sounds and colors and all that.

我们读一本书时，更好的作者也能把你吸引进去，同样给你这些体验，让你进入他们的世界。

We're reading a book, the the better authors are able to draw you in and give you that as well so that you enter into their world.

你走进纳尼亚的衣橱，穿过那个壁橱，到达另一边。

That you walk through the wardrobe in Narnia, in the in the closet and get to the other side.

你登上霍格沃茨特快列车，这一切都是在邀请你进入那个世界。

That you get on Hogwarts train and you know, the whole that's the you're being invited into that world.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这一点。

I like that.

所以我们一直在讨论土星与海王星的动态以及它们之间的差异，但这也让我想到当我们谈论小说和小说作家时，水星与海王星的动态。

So we're talking a lot about the, Saturn versus Neptune dynamic and the differences between those, but it's also making me think of the Mercury Neptune dynamic also when we're talking about fiction and fiction authors.

这可能是水星与海王星组合在积极运用时的一个正面优势，比如擅长构建或传达想象中的世界。

And that could be one positive upside to a constructive use of Mercury Neptune combinations, let's say, having a knack for sometimes building or communicating like imaginary worlds.

如果你是个奇幻作家，那会很棒。

If you were like a fantasy author, that would be great.

毫无疑问。

Without question.

对我来说，海王星在第三宫，即使是困难相位，比如海王星与水星的对冲、四分相、三分相或五分相，任何一种都可能产生这种效果。

And for me, Neptune in the third, even hard angles, Neptune Mercury, Neptune Mercury opposition, any of them, squares, trines, quincunxes, any of those Mhmm.

都能营造出那种氛围。

Can produce that.

这就是你允许自己让水星向海王星敞开的程度。

That's the degree in which you are allowing yourself that Mercury is allowing itself to be open to Neptune.

对吧？

Right?

因此，通过六分相，这种邀请确实存在，而且它们的沟通更加清晰。

So through the sextile, certainly the invitation is there and they're communicating more clearly.

水星说：嘿，海王星。

And Mercury is like, hey, Neptune.

是的。

Yeah.

我们去那里吧。

Let's go there.

而在合相或四分相的情况下，水星可能会更害怕，更固守于自己的现实，这取决于它的星座和海王星的星座。

Where possibly with an opposition or a square, Mercury might be a little bit more fearful and locked into its reality depending on its sign and Neptune sign.

没错。

So Right.

但它们依然存在。

But they're still there.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

无论你是提笔写字、用手指敲击键盘，还是拿笔绘画出涌动的灵感，向想象世界敞开的潜力始终存在。

And the potential is always there for opening up to the imaginative world whether you put your pen to paper or fingers to computer keys, or pen to paper to draw what's coming through, that is certainly there.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，这可以说是这一现象的建设性版本。

So that's the, let's say, constructive version of that.

但水星与海王星之间也存在更具挑战性的面向，因为水星最主要的功能是沟通，而海王星的主要功能之一则是幻象或创造替代现实。

There's also a more challenging version of Mercury Neptune because Mercury, more than anything, its primary function is just communication whereas Neptune, one of its primary functions is like illusion or creating alternative realities.

当这两者结合时，它们几乎变得相互对立，因为水星试图清晰传达信息的努力会变得有些模糊。

And sometimes when you put those together, they almost become antithetical because Mercury's attempt to communicate something clearly gets a little foggy.

而在最糟糕的情况下，这可能会导致传递不真实或虚假的信息。

And and at the worst case scenario, that can be, conveying something that's not true or that's that's false.

那是虚假的。

That is false.

对。

Right.

所以在这里，你有线性的、左脑的水星。

And so so here you have linear left brain Mercury.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们知道这是左脑。

So we know it's left brain.

这是逻辑。

It's logic.

这是演绎的。

It's deductive.

是一加一等于二。

It is one plus one equals two.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

我们从点A推导到点B。

We we get from point a to point b.

对吧？

Right?

信息通过我们的突触传递，然后我们说话，将信息和想法传递给他人，并接收这些信息。

It is carrying information through our synapses and we then are speaking and transporting information and ideas to somebody else and then receiving that information.

海王星不是这样运作的。

Neptune doesn't work that way.

是的。

Right.

我的意思是，正如你所说，这确实是完全相反的。

I mean, it really is, to your point, quite antithetical.

它是直觉的。

It is intuitive.

它是归纳的。

It is inductive.

它是迂回的。

It is circuitous.

它是富有想象力的。

It is imaginative.

它是非线性的。

It is nonlinear.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

所以当你发现水星与海王星处于特别紧张的相位时，你可能会遇到这样的人：他们明明知道什么是真实的、什么是虚假的，却偏偏选择相信虚假的。

So when you find Mercury Neptune in particularly stressful aspects, you can in fact find someone who either a knows the distinction between what's true and what's not and goes with what's untrue

嗯。

Mhmm.

或者你遇到这样的人：他们根本无法分辨真实与虚假，他们的想象世界、妄想世界或幻觉世界就成了他们的现实。

Or you find someone who cannot distinguish the difference between what is true and what is not, and they just their imaginal world or delusory world or illusory world becomes their reality.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我有个妹妹，是比我小的女性，依我看来，我已经把她的星盘从脑子里抹掉了。

I have a sibling, a younger female sibling who in my opinion has I've erased her chart from my head.

所以，我没法告诉你。

So, I can't tell you.

好吧。

So Okay.

但她很难分辨清楚。

But she has a very difficult time distinguishing.

我认为，无论她传达什么，她都将其视为现实。

I I think she whatever she's communicating, she sees as reality.

即使从一分钟到下一分钟，或从一天到下一天，这些说法可能彼此矛盾。

Even though from one minute or one moment to the next or one day to the next, they might contradict one another.

对。

Right.

所以我认为她并不特别清楚真实与虚假之间的区别。

And so I don't think she particularly knows, the distinction and what is real and what is not.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这并不意味着她一直都在妄想，但我确实相信这种情况会时有发生。

That's not to say all the time that she is delusion delusional, but I do believe that comes in.

我相信，幻觉是我们大部分时候都知道自己身处其中的一种状态。

And I believe illusion is a place where we know we're an illusion for the most part.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而妄想则进入了我们不知道自己的幻觉并非真实的状态。

And delusion then goes into that place where we don't know that our illusions aren't real.

于是你就达到了病态的妄想水平。

So then you get pathological levels of delusion.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

这很棘手，没错。

Which which is tricky and Yes.

别扯太远政治话题，但看特朗普的崛起和执政过程，其中一个令人着迷的点就是，他有着非常明显的水星与海王星相刑相位。

Not to get like all all political, it was one of the fascinating things watching like Trump's rise and and presidency was just he has that pretty tight Mercury Neptune square.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你可以看到，他有时如何利用这一点，通过水星来构建极具说服力的叙事。

And you could see the ways in which he like, could use that sometimes to his advantage in order to be able to, make a very compelling narrative, rhetorically using that Mercury.

但有时，就事实核查员而言，以及媒体每天努力跟上他所说内容真假的判断，这简直有些滑稽，因为确实如此。

But then also sometimes in terms of, like, the fact checkers and just, you know, seeing the media try to keep up with like whether what he was saying was true or false from on a day to day basis was almost comical at times because Yeah.

说实话，那是一个怪异的世界。

It was it was a bizarre world to be honest.

对。

Right.

我现在试着调出她的星盘，发现她确实有海王星与水星的刑相位。

And I do believe now that I'm trying to call her chart up that she has a Neptune Mercury square.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.