专业实践占星术：实现转型

好的。

Okay.

不过这么做也没什么问题。

Well, there's nothing wrong with that.

只是会稍微难一些，我有时也会跟别人说，如果没必要的话就别用笔名了，因为作为占星师，你的名字这类身份符号会成为你工作的一部分，你的工作口碑和大家对你的熟悉度都和你的真名息息相关。

It's a little harder, and I sometimes tell people if they don't have to do that not to use a pseudonym because sometimes your name and different things becomes part of your work as an astrologer, sometimes becomes partially based on your reputation and people's familiarity with you.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我之所以会说这些，主要是想提醒那些没改用备用名字，反而用了一个不太像真名的噱头式名字当自己主要称呼的人——那个名字更像是他们的商用名。我总觉得推广这类名字要比直接用普通本名难一些，也说不上为什么，就是有这种感觉。

So I say that more for people that set up not a secondary name, but use more of a gimmick type name that isn't really like a name, but it's just like something It's more like their business name as their primary designation, and sometimes it seems like a little harder to promote that I feel like than, I don't know, just using a name of some sort.

我同意这个说法。

I agree with that.

当初我在决定网站、业务还有自己的称呼时，理想情况里我本来也想走你和莉萨那条路线，直接用自己的本名。

When I was deciding on what I wanted to call my website, what I wanted to call my business or me, I mean, ideally, I would have just gone the, you know, the way that you and Lisa have gone where you just used your names.

就只用自己的名字，后面加上“占星学”这几个字就行。

It's just your names and then the word astrology.

非常简单，非常直接。

It's super easy, super straightforward.

因为我选择将事情分开，所以我决定使用一个商业名称，而且我要说，拥有一个独立命名的业务在某些方面确实更麻烦，无论是对我自己心理上的负担，还是在实际操作上。

Because of my choice to keep things separate, I did decide to go with a business name, and I will say that having a separate- separately named business has been more cumbersome, in a few ways, I mean, just mentally for myself, and then also logistically.

当你在思考如何向潜在客户介绍自己时，这又多了一个需要拼凑的碎片。

It's just one more puzzle piece to kinda move around when you're figuring out about how to talk about yourself to potential clients.

当然。

Sure.

话虽如此，品牌确实有它的价值，比如我的播客，我称之为‘占星播客’，而不是‘克里斯·布伦南播客’之类的，这种方式也确实奏效了。

I mean, that being said, like, there's something about branding, and I mean, my thing has certainly worked out with, like, the podcast, for example, calling it, like, the astrology podcast, not the Chris Brennan podcast or something like that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我应该指出，我的网站网址是 chrisbrennanastrologer.com，用于我的咨询业务。

And I should I should point out that mine my website my URL is chrisbrennanastrologer.com for my consulting site.

之所以这样，是因为 chrisbrennan.com 这个域名已经被占用了，因为有个综合格斗选手叫克里斯·布伦南，他的绰号是‘西区绞杀者’，多年来我一直和他争夺谷歌搜索排名，直到最近我才终于开始占据主导地位，成为主要的‘克里斯·布伦南’。

The only reason that's the case is because chrisbrennan.com was taken because there's this MMA fighter named Chris Brennan whose nickname is the West Side Strangler, and I've been fighting that guy for like the Google search ranking for years, and only recently I think started to emerge victorious as the primary Chris Brennan.

但我认为还有其他竞争者，所以我得保持警惕。

But I think there's other contenders, so I have to stay on my toes.

是的。

Yeah.

我在2017年搜索你的时候，记得那个综合格斗选手冒出来了。

When I googled you back in like 2017, I remember the MMA guy coming.

我记得。

I remember

那件事。

that.

我记得那件事。

I remember that.

真的吗？

Really?

该死。

Damn it.

他一直纠缠了我差不多十年，不过没关系。

He's been haunting me for like a decade, but that's alright.

我给他点赞。

I give him props.

我觉得他能这么成功其实挺酷的。

I think that's actually pretty cool that he's been so successful.

是的，我得在搜索排名上超过他。

Yeah, I have to beat him in the search rankings.

你的主名字也有这个问题吗？

Do you have that problem with your main name?

比如，当一个人的名字很普通时，总是很难和其他人竞争。

Like that's always something when somebody has a generic name that that's tough if they have to compete with other people.

我的情况是，到目前为止，Claire Moon 还不错。

I mean, so far Claire Moon's been fine.

好的。

Okay.

我的本名里全是元音，乱七八糟的，所以肯定不会有这方面的问题。

My real name is a hot mess of vowels, so I'm sure that'll be fine.

不过话说回来没错。

But yeah.

行。

Okay.

那就好。

Good.

呃，这事儿还挺复杂的。

Well, that's a whole thing.

那说到转变身份、让大家知道这件事，你一般会在什么场合把自己是占星师这件事介绍给别人呢？

So transitioning, letting people know, at what point Do you introduce yourself as an astrologer in polite company?

如果对方只是个陌生人，要不要说这件事总是个很难决定的问题。

That's always a tough question if it's just like a stranger whether you say that.

在过去这一两年完成身份转变的过程中，你还遇到过哪些其他的问题吗？

What are some other things that come up as you're making that transition over the past year or two?

我的意思是，从经济上讲，我确实得为此做好准备。

I mean, just financially, I really had to prepare for it.

我觉得这对和我们同龄的人会很有参考价值。

I think it's gonna be relevant with people in our age group.

如果你是在经济衰退时期开始背负学生贷款的，比如2006年、2007年左右，那时你刚上大学或正处于那段时期，那你很可能背负着大量学生贷款，这一点必须考虑进去——因为如果你能申请收入驱动型还款计划，那在辞职前就该这么做。

If you started getting student loan debt in about the recession times, so like two thousand and six, 2007, if that's about when you were starting college or anytime in there, you probably have a lot of student loan debt, and that's something to account for because if you can be on income based repayment plans, that is what you wanna do before you quit your job.

确保你所有的学生贷款都已纳入收入驱动型还款计划，而且再次说明，我不是财务规划师，这仅仅是我的个人经验。

Make sure you're on an income based repayment plan for all of your student loans, so that And again, I'm no financial planner, and this is only my experience.

这仅仅是我的看法。

This is only my opinion.

去咨询一位财务顾问吧。

Talk to a financial adviser.

但有了这个计划，就意味着在我一年没有收入后，我的学生贷款还款额会大幅降低。

But having that means that after a year of making no money, then my student loan payments go way down.

所以，如果你能撑过第一年，下定决心不赚任何收入，你的收入驱动型还款额就会相应调整，对吧？

So if you can just get through that first year, and just commit to making like, no income, your income based repayments are gonna change, right?

所以这是一个非常重要的点。

So that's a huge point.

如果你已经对你的学生贷款进行了再融资，你可能就没有这个选择了。

If you have refinanced your student loans, you may not have that option available to you.

但这一点是我能够顺利完成这一过渡的关键财务因素之一。

But that has been one of the key financial things that has made this transition possible.

所以，你可能需要提前储蓄并为这段离职或暂停工作的时间做好规划，以便在你适应新角色时能够站稳脚跟。

So, you know, you may have to save up and plan for that, that time off, or time away from job while you're getting onto your feet in your new kind of role in your work.

但是的，这也是我必须考虑的另一件大事。

But yeah, that's the other big piece I had to think about too.

我的意思是，几乎生活中所有方面的因素都融入了这次转变中。

So I mean, pretty much all the chunks of life came in to this transition.

对。

Right.

好的。

Yeah.

学生贷款，还有你过去职业中哪些方面是相关的、可以整合的，以及哪些是不相关的、与你走上全新人生道路脱节的。

Student loans and yeah, the extent to which some of your previous career things are relevant or can be integrated versus the extent to which it's not, or those are disconnected from going a completely new route in your life.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

这让我想到了另一件事。

That brought up one other thing.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

咨询服务。

Consultations.

那么，你每周是如何安排咨询服务的呢？

So how are you doing in terms of structuring consultations in a week?

我经常感到好奇，也总会问不同的占星师：你一天最多能做多少次咨询？

And I'm often fascinated and always ask different astrologers, like how many consultations would you do in a day max?

因为我知道一些像我这样的占星师，每天只做一次咨询就会感到精疲力尽，或者做两次的话，虽然能完成，但已经是在勉强自己了。

Because I know some astrologers like myself that like I'll do like one consultation a day and I'll be worn out or like two would be You know, I could do it, but it would be pushing it.

但我认识其他占星师，他们说，是的，我一天可以做五到六次咨询，完全没问题。

But I know other astrologers are like, Yeah, I could do five or six consultations in a day, no sweat.

你在这件事上是什么情况？

Where are you when it comes to that?

我的意思是，是的，我确实经常考虑过这个问题。

I mean, yeah, I've thought about that a lot.

我计划着，如果每周能有几天每天做两到三次咨询，那会非常好。

I plan on I mean, it'd be really great if I could have two or three a day for a few days a week.

那简直太棒了。

That would be amazing.

我现在还没有达到那种状态。

I don't have that right now.

不过，我认为如果我不想在情感上耗尽自己，我一天最多也不会做超过两到三次咨询。

However, I think max, if I wanna not burn myself out emotionally, I probably wouldn't do more than two or three a day.

我觉得我可以做得更多，一天做四五个完全没问题，但我不确定这对我是不是好事。

I think I could do more, I could do four or five a day just fine, but I don't know if that would be good for me.

你现在做准备需要多长时间？目前你大概花多少时间做准备？

How are you doing with prep time, or how much prep time do you take, if any, at this point?

从半小时到一小时不等。

Anywhere from a half hour to an hour.

有时候你看一个星盘，它会非常清晰地呈现出来，但其他时候你得花更多时间去琢磨。

Sometimes you look at a chart and it's just really right there for you, and then other times you have to spend a little bit more time with it.

我通常喜欢在咨询前一晚先看一下星盘，然后睡一觉，之后就会有种奇妙的事情发生。

I usually like to look at it the night before I do the consult, and then I sleep on it, and then, I don't know, there's like some magical thing that happens when I sleep on it.

这就像是我在大学备考时的做法，我一定会确保在复习和考试之间至少有一个完整的睡眠周期，因为我觉得这能带来巨大的帮助。

It's just like when I would study for an exam in college, I would make sure that I had at least one sleep cycle between studying and the exam because I think it helps a billion times.

不过，大概就是半小时到一小时吧。

But yeah, probably half hour hour.

这本身就是一个非常棒的讨论话题，去年我可能和丽莎在某一集中稍微聊过，但米莉·米歇尔在推特上问：你在看一个出生星盘时，最先看的是什么？

This would be a great discussion topic all in itself, and maybe I did that a little bit with Lisa in an episode last year, but Millie Michelle on Twitter asked, What is the first thing that you look at in a natal chart?

对我来说，是上升宫的守护星以及根据昼夜属性判断的最积极和最消极的吉星与凶星。

And for me, was like the ruler of the Ascendant and the most positive and negative benefics based on sect.

你通常会看哪些方面？或者在与客户交流时，哪些内容最常出现在你面前？

What do you look at or what have been the things that have been coming up for you the most with clients?

是的。

Yep.

这正是我首先看的内容。

That is exactly what I look at first.

我会看上升宫的守护星以及它在星盘中的位置。

I look at the Ascendant ruler and where that's located in the chart.

寻找重大的挑战和重大的机会。

Look for just big challenges, big opportunities.

所以，就像你所说的，根据昼夜属性判断的凶星和吉星，以及它们在星盘中的位置。

So pretty much like you said, the malefics and benefics of sect, where they are in the chart.

我倾向于更进一步——我不确定这是否更现代，但我真的很关注星盘中元素和模式的比例，看看是否存在一些，嗯，明显的情况。

I do like to be a little bit more- I don't know if this is more modern, but just really looking at, the ratio of elements in the chart and modalities, I see if there's any, you know, Oh, yeah.

我想这些是初步的内容。

I guess that's initial stuff.

是的。

Yeah.

这是个不错的观点。

That's a good one.

注意他们是否拥有大量位于火象星座的行星，这会告诉你一些信息， versus 拥有大量位于水象星座的行星。

Just paying attention to if they have like a huge amount of planets and like fire signs as that's gonna tell you something versus a huge amount of planets and water signs.

我们一直在讨论制作一集关于星聚的节目，可能还会做，你今天正在为这个做些研究。

We've been talking about doing, and we may still do like an episode on stelliums that we're putting together, and you were doing some research for that today.

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yep.

我正在寻找一些拥有星聚现象的有趣人物。

I'm looking for interesting people with stelliums.

你最喜欢的那个例子是哪一个来着？

What was one of your favorite ones again?

到目前为止，是加思·布鲁克斯。

So far, it is Garth Brooks.

因为我看了一部关于他的小纪录片，特别搞笑。

Just because I watched a mini little documentary about him, and it was hilarious.

所以我查了他的星盘，发现他的所有行星几乎都集中在水瓶座，只有那颗可怜的双鱼座月亮落在第十宫，他所有的情感都被直接释放到公众面前，这可能在财务上带来了巨大收益，但我也觉得正因如此，他才这么搞笑。

And that's why I looked up his chart, and I was like, wow, it's everything in Aquarius except for this poor Pisces Moon in the tenth, where all of his emotion just gets channeled right out into the public, probably for financially great reasons, but also I think he's hilarious because of it.

真是个怪人。

Such a weirdo.

太喜欢了。

Love it.

这让我想起了拜登就职典礼时，他出来和每个人握手、拥抱的场景。

That reminds me of the inauguration, Biden's inauguration when he came out and he was like shaking hands and hugging everybody.

我不知道他在那儿。

I didn't know he was there.

什么？

What?

你得看看那段视频。

Well, you you have to watch it.

太好笑了。

It's hilarious.

那可能是我整个就职典礼中最喜欢的部分。

It was probably my favorite part of the entire inauguration.

加思·布鲁克斯出场时，大家还在努力遵守防疫规定，但他却直接说：管他呢。

Was like, Garth Brooks coming out and like everyone's still trying to practice COVID protocols, but he was just like, know, F it.

他拥抱了我猜是奥巴马或者希拉里，或者其他人。

And he hugged, I think it was Obama or Hillary or somebody.

是的，这个双鱼座月亮，说得通。

And yeah, that Pisces moon, that makes sense.

所以他属于1962年的那组恒星会合。

So he was part of that nineteen sixty two stellium.

我快速给你看一下，但他只是差了几天，没能让月亮也落在水瓶座。

I'll show it really quickly, but he just barely missed by what, like a couple of days having the Moon in Aquarius as well.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

那会是什么情况呢？

How how would that have been?

但没错，那里确实挤得厉害。

But yeah, it's it's pretty packed in there.

绝对是1962年的水瓶座天体聚集。

Definitely the Aquarius assembly of '62.

真棒。

Nice.

我喜欢这个。

I like that.

一些新时代的人曾预测，反基督会在1962年2月5日左右的这张星盘中出生。

Some New Age people like predicted that the Antichrist would be born on this chart in like February 5 or something of 1962.

所以我想我们并没有迎来那个，反而迎来了加思·布鲁克斯。

So I guess we didn't quite get that, we just ended up with Garth Brooks.

酷炫的东西，精致的东西，真棒的东西。

Cool stuff, slick stuff, neat stuff.

加思·布鲁克斯，这就是我们得到的。

Garth Brooks, that's what we got.

不错。

Nice.

好吧。

All right.

好吧，我就接受这个了。

Well, I'll take it.

这听起来好得多。

That sounds far preferable.

好的。

Alright.

所以，星聚在某个时候会起作用。

So stelliums work on that at some point.

在分析星盘时，最初的步骤是什么？在过去一年左右，当你开始为自己和客户做咨询时，有没有什么让你感到意外的事情？

First steps in looking at a chart, has there been anything that surprised you doing consultations with clients as you've been using yourself into that over the past year or so that you didn't expect before you started doing that?

可能是我实际上在六十分钟内能讲完的内容少得惊人，而我本想讲的却多得多。

Probably how little I actually can get through in a sixty minute period of time, and how much I would like to.

所以，我想告诉对方的内容太多了，但真正坐下来与人交流时，尤其是当你们有很好的互动、对方也积极回应时，六十分钟、七十五分钟转眼就过去了。

So the amount of stuff that I want to tell somebody is so massive, and the actual time, once you sit down with someone, and especially if you're having a really good dialogue with them, and they're engaging with you really well, sixty minutes, seventy five minutes goes by really fast.

因此，最让我惊讶的是，我实际上能讲的东西太少了，我根本没有足够的时间把所有想说的都告诉他们。

And so what I've been most surprised about is just like, how little I actually, like, have, like, I just don't have enough time to tell them everything, you know, that you wanna tell them.

而且，是的，我想说，这和我的另一份职业真的很相似，你知道吗？

And, yeah, I guess, you know, that's another thing that's really similar to my other profession, you know?

你永远没有足够的时间去告诉人们你需要告诉他们的内容，要么是因为他们不想听，要么是因为时间到了。

You never have enough time to tell people what you need to tell them, either because they don't want to listen to you, or because the clock runs out.

总有一个原因。

One of the two.

我以为如果我能掌控时间，情况会不一样，但其实并没有。

I thought it would be different if I had control over it, but it's not.

是的。

Yeah.

在丽莎和我做的那期关于如何最大化利用占星咨询的节目中，有一个观点浮现出来，那就是要优先考虑，意识到你不可能涵盖所有你想讲的内容，尤其是当你清单上的事项太多时。

That was one of the things that came up in the episode that Lisa and I did on tips for getting the most out of a reading was really prioritizing and realizing that you're not going to be able to cover probably everything you want, especially if you have too many things on your item list.

因为即使七十五分钟听起来很长，但一旦真正开始对话，你会发现时间并没有你想象的那么多。

Because even though seventy five minutes sounds like a lot of time, like once you get down to it and actually start having a dialogue, it's not quite as much time as you as you think.

对。

Right.

但另一方面，我要说，你其实不需要说太多，也不需要在星盘中查看太多内容，就能获得丰富的洞察和信息。

And then on the other side of that coin though, I will say like, you don't need to say that much and or you don't need to look at that many things in the chart to get a plethora of insight and information.

其实并不需要那么多东西，这也回到了我之前说的那一点：我什么时候才准备好开始为真实客户做咨询？

Like, it really doesn't actually take that much, and that kind of goes back to the point of like, when am I ready to start consulting with actual clients?

可能比你想象的要早得多，因为你根本不需要研究所有七个可见的行星，如果你只关注三个，对客户的理解来说已经足够了。

Probably sooner than you think, because really, you don't need to go through all seven visible planets, you know, if you end up on three, it's probably plenty for their brain to take in.

我经常收到这样的反馈：人们在和你相处的一小时左右里，获得的洞察远超你的预期。

And that's feedback that I get a lot, is just that people get very full of insight during that hour or so with you, more than you would think.

而且我想，当我们从事占星学多年后，也容易对此习以为常。

And I think we kinda take it for granted too after we've been in astrology or doing astrology for a number of years.

我们甚至开始忽视自己刚接触占星时吸收了多少知识，或者刚入门时的状态。

I think we even start to take for granted how much we were soaking up when we started, or when we were new to astrology.

那时候我们就像海绵一样，而我们的客户现在也差不多是这样。

We were like little sponges, so that's what all of our clients pretty much doing.

是的， definitely。

Yeah, definitely.

你刚才说的那点我有点忘了，你刚才到底说了什么？

And yeah, you were saying something in that I've lost the thought, but what were you just saying?

我在说，一方面，我根本没有足够的时间来表达我想说的所有内容，但其实我也不需要说那么多。

I was talking about how on one side of the coin, it's like, I don't have nearly enough time to say everything I wanna say, but I don't really need to say that much actually.

是的。

Yeah.

这确实是另一个很好的理由，说明为什么你应该开始与人咨询，而不是只做写作这类事——真正进入一对一的交流空间，这样你才能亲身体验到这一点。

It's definitely, and this is another reason why it's really good to start consulting with people instead of doing that, the whole writing thing, Actually getting into one on one space, another reason to do that, so that you can experience that.

对。

Yeah.

从技术层面来看，获得反馈是占星师工作中的一个重要组成部分。

Getting the feedback is actually an important component from a technical standpoint of what the astrologer does.

因为它能帮助占星师完善和提升自己所做事情的精准度。

Because it allows them to augment and increase the sharpness of what they're doing.

而且

And

不过回到你刚才的观点，有时候最简单的东西反而最深刻，那些对你来说再普通不过、显而易见的技术性内容，对客户而言可能远比你想象的更深刻。

to go back to your point though, sometimes the simplest things can end up being the most profound or the things that seem the simplest or the most obvious or straightforward to you as the astrologer from a technical standpoint can end up being much more profound to the client than you realize.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yep.

每次都是。

Every time.

总是让我感到惊讶。

Never ceases to amaze me.

是的。

Yeah.

就像那样。

Well, like that.

我的意思是，作为一名占星师，听人们谈论他们的生活并从星盘中看到这些情况时，最令人着迷的一点之一就是，这些星盘配置的体现有时竟然如此字面化。

I mean, that's one of the more fascinating things about being an astrologer and hearing people talk about their life and seeing it in their chart is sometimes how utterly just literal the manifestations of the placements are.

这也是我一直对占星学保持兴趣并不断回归的原因之一。

And that's one of the things that always keeps me coming back to astrology and has always kept me interested.

你会担心自己某天会不会感到厌倦，或者会不会突然醒悟，发现这一切其实并不真实，类似这样的想法。

You wonder if you'll get bored at some point or if you'll be like, it turns out that this You'll open your eyes and turns out that this isn't real or something like that.

但当你在占星领域待得越久，真正奇怪的是，尽管你作为一个生活在二十一世纪初的正常理性人类，尽了最大努力去怀疑，占星却常常显得比你想象中有效得多，这在我看来是整个占星事业中最不可思议的地方。

But the things that's really strange the longer you're in astrology is that despite your best efforts sometimes as a normal rational human being living in the early twenty first century, the astrology often does seem to work way more than you would ever think that it should, and that's the most bizarre thing I think about this entire enterprise.

是的，我同意这一点。

Yeah, I agree with that.

而且这实际上也让人感到安心，因为作为一个最初带着很多怀疑进入这一领域的人，我始终保持着一个不断质疑的头脑，总在想：为什么？

And it's actually also very comforting because as someone who did come into this with a lot of doubt, and who has continued to have this skeptical brain that is just constantly like, but why?

我为什么要这么说？

Why do I say this?

我为什么要那样说？

Why do I say that?

但为什么呢？

But why though?

但我其实并不需要占星来告诉我这些，对吧？

But I don't need astrology to say that, right?

我就可以这么说。

I can just say that.

占星术不断提醒我：哦，对，我解释不了为什么它这么准，这种事情一再发生。

Having consistent reminders from astrology itself that, Oh yeah, I can't explain why that worked so well, That keeps happening.

所以我一直担心，我会不会对它感到厌倦？

So I keep having this fear of like, am I gonna get bored of it?

我会不会但事实上，我不断遇到这样的例子：没错，这根本编不出来。

Am I gonna But it's like, no, I just keep getting these examples of like, yep, can't make that shit up.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，你

So, you

对。

Yeah.

这很棘手，因为它一直在应验。

It's tough because it just keeps working.

如果它能停止运作足够长的时间，我们就能抽身出来，回去做普通的工作，成为正常的、30岁左右的有生产力的社会成员。

If it would just stop working for long enough, we could get out of it and go back and have normal day jobs and be normal 30 year old productive members of society.

但不幸的是，只要占星术还能像现在这样持续有效，我们就得继续坚持下去。

But unfortunately, as long as the astrology keeps working as well as it is, we're gonna have to keep keep at it.

我会为你们祈祷的。

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

好的。

Okay.

那么，对于那些正考虑做出这种转变的人，他们应该做些什么呢？

So what is something that people thinking about making this transition should do?

你显然还在努力争取成功。

So you're you're obviously you're still trying to make it.

你仍在为此努力。

You're still working on it.

我昨天和另一个主要做YouTube的人聊过，他频道的增长情况不错，相关事业也发展得挺好，但他一直在纠结自己该在社交媒体上投入多少精力。

You're working I was having a conversation with another guy yesterday who primarily does YouTube, and he's doing pretty well growing his channel and things related to that, but he was having a question about how much he should use social media.

他有点害怕社交媒体，因为他听说社交媒体既会大量消耗时间，而且像推特这样的平台还可能极其有毒——这在某种程度上是事实，但与此同时，社交媒体也有积极的一面。

And he's kind of scared of social media because he's heard it's both a huge time sink as well as that things like Twitter can be incredibly toxic, which is to some extent true, although there's also positive sides as well at the same time.

你对社交媒体怎么看？

How do you feel about social media?

你现在对这个问题是什么态度？

Where are you at with that at this point?

绝对是必要的恶。

Necessary evil, for sure.

必要的恶，明白了。

Necessary evil, okay.

所以就像毒药，得少量使用？

So it's like a poison to be used in small doses?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为它是一种可以被巧妙运用的工具。

I think it's a tool that can be used, skillfully.

但这很困难，因为我和大家一样，对手机上瘾。

It's difficult though because I'm very addicted to my phone as we all are.

而且，现在发生了一些非常奇怪的事情，不过那是另一个话题了。

And, there's something very strange going well, that's a different topic.

也许我一会儿再谈这个。

Maybe I'll get into that in a minute.

但有一点很奇怪，就是当你把社交媒体看作娱乐领域时，突然转变想法，意识到它其实是一个商业工具。

But there is it's it is kinda strange thinking about social media in an entertainment sphere, and then changing that thinking to, oh, this is a business tool actually.

然后确保你只有在用社交媒体做业务时才使用它。

And then not, you know, making sure that you're not on that social media unless you are using it to do your business thing.

这种情况适用于你觉得社交媒体有毒的时候，而很多平台确实如此。

This is in the case that you feel like it's toxic, which a lot of them are.

是的，即使它们有毒，你仍然可以使用它们，但你要清楚，你不会用它们来做个人用途，而是用来发布星座内容或其他占星内容。

Yeah, think you can still use them even if they're but just know you're not gonna be using them for personal use, you're gonna be using them to post horoscopes or post other astrological content.

我觉得它确实很耗时间，但某种程度上又是必要的，就像任何形式的自我推广一样。

I do think it's a big time suck, but it's kind of a necessary one in the same way that, you know, any kind of self promotion is.

但我觉得占星术有趣的地方在于，我们大量的自我推广都是以占星内容的形式出现在社交媒体上的。

But the thing with astrology that I find interesting is that so much of our self promotion comes in the form of horoscopic astrology online, on social media.

就像是，我想让大家认识我，知道我的存在，这样我才能用我的服务帮助他们，对吧？

It's like, okay, I want to make myself known, so people know about me, so I can help them with my services, right?

我以前觉得‘商业’是个脏词，‘营销’是个脏词，自我推广是自恋的，而我认为，尤其是在玄学圈子里，很多人都有这些顾虑。

Like, I don't think- I used to think that business was a dirty word, and marketing was a dirty word, and self promotion was conceited, and all of these things that I think a lot of- especially in the metaphysics community, we have a lot of these concerns.

但与此同时，如果你不能让人们知道你在这里，愿意用自己的技能提供帮助，那他们就无法得到你的帮助。

But at the same time, it's like, if you can't let people know that you're here to help with your skills, then they're not gonna be able to get your help.

所以在很多方面，这确实是一条微妙的界限，关乎你如何看待它、如何使用它。

So it's certainly a fine line in a lot of ways, as far as how you think about it, how you use it.

我使用Instagram。

I use Instagram.

我需要重新开始做YouTube，但这一切的关键在于持续性，我认为最重要的就是保持一致性。目前我唯一能坚持的是Instagram，虽然做得不太好，但我尽力了。

I need to get back into the YouTube game, but so much of this is about consistency, and I think that's the biggest piece of it, is just being consistent, and so I know right now the only thing that I can be consistent with is Instagram, very poorly, so I try my best.

这些平台的好处之一是，你可以提前安排好帖子，设置好发布时间，让它们在特定日期自动发布。

The nice thing about some of these is, you can set up posts ahead of time, and just queue them up to release at certain dates.

Twitter 上有个叫 Hootsuite 的工具，我想你在你的专业课程里提到过。

There's something for Twitter called Hootsuite, I think, that you mentioned in your professional course.

有很多工具可以帮助你自动化发布内容，所以我强烈推荐使用这些工具，如果你不喜欢这些平台的话。

There's there's like things that there's tools to help you automate posts, so I definitely recommend doing those things just to minimize your time on those platforms if you don't like them.

但这就是我的看法。

But yeah, that's how I feel about it.

我会用它。

I use it.

它很耗时间，因为写占星内容很费时。

It is a time suck because writing astrology is time consuming.

如果你在写占星内容，并且做得不错，像我一样还没那么有经验，那花点时间是正常的，对吧？

If you're- I think if you're writing astrology, and you're doing a good job at it, and you know, you're like me, and you're not super seasoned, like, I'm pretty new to astrology writing, it should probably take you a little while, you know?

这确实应该花一些时间。

It it it should be a little time consuming.

所以在这方面，有很多事情需要考虑。

So yeah, there's a lot of things to consider that way.

当然。

Sure.

但写作和沟通是很好的练习，尤其是学习如何将技术性内容，特别是复杂的科技内容，传达给理解能力较弱或需要简化解释的受众。

But it's good practice writing and communicating and learning how to communicate technical things, especially complex technical things to a less complex audience or audience that needs it to be translated a little bit or simplified a little bit.

嗯。

Mhmm.

不过从社会学角度来看，作为占星师，社交媒体如今扮演着重要角色——它虽非完整界面，但在一定程度上已成为客户了解你工作的渠道，因此在当今时代，这已成为生存所必需的一部分。

It's interesting though from like a sociological standpoint as astrologers, role or the important role that social media plays at this point in being the not full interface, but to some extent the interface now with clients or with how people can find out about your work as an astrologer and therefore becomes like a necessary piece in order to survive to some extent in this day and age.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当然。

Oh, absolutely.

而且，正如你所说，这本质上是社会的一部分。

And also, to your point of it, it's part of society essentially.

就像你得了解外面世界正在发生什么，而在占星界，外面世界发生的就是各种梗。

Like, you gotta know what's going on out there in the world, and what's going on out there in the world in astrology are memes.

梗正在流行，所有这些类型的现象都在发生。

Memes are happening, all of these kind of Right.

是的，网上关于占星术的文化现象非常多。

Yeah, there's a lot culturally happening online with astrology.

所以如果你想跟上潮流，我认为你确实需要参与其中。

So if you want to be current, you do have to engage I think with that.

这是个很好的观点，这也是为什么我认为上社交媒体真的很重要，这样你就能了解正在发生的事。

So that's a good point, that's another reason why it's really important I think to be on social media so you just know what's going on.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢看看社区里正在发生什么，有哪些讨论正在进行。

I like seeing what's happening in the community, what kind of discussions are taking place.

去年疫情期间，出现了一些非常精彩的内容，人们会注意到正在发生的事情，有时还能对当时的情况做出很好的观察，这些观察促进了关于关注这些现象的社群的持续讨论。

Last year during the pandemic, there was just some amazing stuff where people would notice things that were happening and sometimes make good observations about what was going on and that would contribute to some ongoing discussion about just the communities who are watching it.

或者甚至今天，有个人在推特上发布了一篇新闻文章，说法国总统马克龙在观众席上被人打了，他们贴出了他的星盘，也就是一个时间星盘，并指出他的火星正好与下降点度数相合，这实际上非常出色，是一个快速的星象示例，但这是我今天注意到的一个积极的社交媒体小事件。

Or even just like today, somebody on Twitter posted a news article that the French president Emmanuel Macron had just been slapped by somebody in an audience or something, and they posted his chart, is like a time chart, and pointed out that he had transiting Mars exactly conjoining the degree of his descendant, which is actually really impressive, like a transit example just really quickly, but that was a positive little social media thing that I noticed today.

这太疯狂了。

That's wild.

是的，这是个非常好的观点。

Yeah, that's such a good point.

如果你想要跟上集体的氛围，当然得关注这些，及时了解新闻。

I certainly see things if you wanna be kind of plugged into the collective vibes, yeah, for sure, and be abreast of the news.

而且这也取决于你的占星兴趣，但对我来说，我喜欢把占星学应用到时事上。

And it kinda depends on what your astrological interests are too, but for me, I love applying astrology to current events.

我喜欢把它应用到我在网上看到的或看纪录片时遇到的各种随机话题上。

I love applying it to just random topics that I see because I am on the internet, or because I'm watching documentaries or whatever.

所以我认为，成为一名全面的占星师，另一部分就是让自己接触大量不同的事物，包括社交媒体，这样你才能看到这些现象，获得更多占星学的例子。

So I think that's another piece too of of being just a well rounded astrologer is exposing yourself to a lot of different things, social media included, so that you you see these things, and you can see more examples of astrology.

是的。

Yeah.

我也喜欢看到社区里发生的事情，过去三四年甚至五年，我们就是通过这种方式看到了越来越多年轻占星师的涌入。

I also like seeing what's happening with the community and that was how we saw the influx of astrologers, younger astrologers over the past three or four or five years.

是的。

Yeah.

或者像你在Reddit上的帖子，那是另一个社交媒体平台，我就是通过那里第一次认识你的。

Or posts like, for example, from you on Reddit, which is another social media site, and that's how I first met you.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我早在2000年代中期就通过我的太空圈认识了奥斯汀。

I met Austin way back in the day through my space in the mid two thousands.

所以没错，有时候即使是很老的社交网络也会带来非常好的结果。

So yeah, sometimes really good things come out of even very old social networks.

没错。

Exactly.

是的，确实如此。

Yeah, yep, definitely.

而且有很多人通过私信联系我寻求咨询。

And I've had a lot of people reach out to me for consults through the DMs.

我的意思是，这并不理想，但毕竟通过社交媒体结识了很多客户。

I mean, it's not ideal, but hey, you know, connected with a lot of clients over social media.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

好的，所以社交媒体的存在几乎成了一种必要，要么选择某个平台，有时甚至需要多个平台。

Okay, so social media presence becomes almost like a necessity of some sort of picking some platform or sometimes having multiple platforms.

我以前主要用Facebook，后来才上了Twitter，但很长一段时间都没搞懂Twitter。

I used to be primarily on Facebook and then got on Twitter, but didn't really get Twitter for a long time.

但后来一旦我弄明白了，它就成了我的主要平台。

But then eventually, once I did get it, that became my main thing.

然后有人在2008年或2018年芝加哥会议后，为我创建了一个Instagram账号。

And then somebody set up a profile for me on Instagram after the conference in Chicago in 2008 or 2018, I guess.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我开始试着学习使用Instagram，但我还是非常不擅长。

And so I've started trying to learn Instagram, but I'm still very bad at it.

但我还没有入驻TikTok。

But I have not gotten on TikTok yet.

你最近有打算拍一些舞蹈视频吗？

Have you gotten on any dance videos in the near future?

没有，我其实考虑过TikTok，因为我有个朋友，她就在TikTok上获得了百万粉丝，但她是有意为之——因为她有自己的生意，她花了整整六个月专心致志地经营。

No, I And I've thought about TikTok because I have a friend who, she just got a million followers on TikTok, but she purposely spent, because she's got her own business thing, she spent six months of dedicated, focused effort to do that.

据我所知，TikTok需要你发布的频率远高于在Instagram上获得关注所需的程度。

From what I know about TikTok, you need to be posting with a frequency that is far higher than what is required to get a following on Instagram.

话虽如此，Instagram的节奏确实慢得多。

That being said, Instagram is pretty slow to do that.

是的，TikTok确实挺激烈的。

Yeah, TikTok Tok is kind of intense.

我还没入坑。

I have not gotten into it.

我连推特都没开始用。

I haven't even gotten into Twitter.

我还在琢磨怎么用推特。

I'm still trying to figure out Twitter.

好吧。

Okay.

是的，我差不多已经退出脸书了。

Yeah, I just got off Facebook pretty much.

我的占星内容偶尔还会发上去，但脸书已经变成一片荒地了。

I mean, I still throw my astrology stuff up on there, but Facebook's a wasteland.

不知道。

Don't know.

对。

Yeah.

过去几年里，脸书的衰落相当剧烈。

That was a pretty steep decline over the past several years for Facebook.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

那么，关于转向专业从事占星术的其他有益事项，或者对正在做这一转变的人有什么建议？

So other things that are good things in terms of transitioning into doing astrology professionally, or advice for people that are making that transition.

你能想到一些建议吗？如果有人正在考虑这件事的话。

Can you think of any advice if somebody was thinking about that?

我觉得就去干吧。

I think go for it.

就是，去做吧。

Like, do it.

只是要规划一下。

Just plan.

你知道的，制定一个计划。

You know, make a plan.

这个计划可能看起来很疯狂，别人可能会觉得你疯了，但你真的必须相信自己，关键就是一步一个脚印，不断完成一个又一个任务。

And that plan is going to maybe seem crazy, and people might think that you are, but you just really have to believe in yourself, and it's really about just putting one foot in front of the other, and just doing task after task after task.

因为当你真正看到它、下定决心的时候，比如你心想：我真的想做这件事，这看起来是一个巨大而令人望而生畏的挑战。

Because it- when you see it, when you decide, like, when you're like, I really wanna do this, it is such a huge daunting thing.

它似乎根本不可能完成，正因如此，很多人根本不敢去尝试。

It seems impossible, and I think it seems like that so much that people don't do it.

但如果你把它分解成更小的步骤，我向你保证，这完全是可实现的。

But if you break it down into smaller chunks, I promise it's totally doable.

然后去上克里斯的课程，他已经为你把一切都做好了。

And then take Chris's course, which person does it for you.

他早就为你铺好了路。

He's already done it for you.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯，没错。

Well, yeah.

这门课程的一半内容都是在讲如何自我推广，或者一些作为占星师成功有用的媒介方式。

And most half of the course is just talking about, like ways to promote yourself or different things that are are useful mediums in order to make it as an astrologer.

我当初就是通过这门课开始的，它基本上给了我一份需要完成的任务清单，让我能起步。

That's how I started though was that course is it basically gave me an outline of tasks to do to start to start it.

如果没有这门课，我可能不会那么细致地确保自己在迈出这一步前完成了所有该做的事。

I don't know if I would have been quite as thorough in making sure I did everything that I needed to do before I made the leap, without that.

很棒。

Cool.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

有时候，仅仅意识到那就是你真正热爱的事情，是你真正投入的领域，而如果你全职投入其中，而不是一生中大部分时间每周五天朝九晚五地把精力花在别的事情上，你会多出多少时间。

And sometimes just realizing that that's what you love doing, that it's something you're really into, and how much more time you could have if you're focusing on that and doing that full time instead of having to focus your attention somewhere else for five days a week from nine to five most of your life.

我觉得对我来说最重要的是，我记得2010年参加一个会议时，我在剑桥的NCGR会议上组织了一场研究研讨会。

And I think that was the biggest thing for me is I just remember I was at a conference in 2010 and I had organized a research symposium at this NCGR conference in Cambridge.

那是非常棒的一天，我请了十位演讲者，他们都是各自传统中的顶尖占星师，被要求谈谈自己传统中最精彩的部分，以及它能为占星术未来的整合做出什么贡献。

And it was this amazing day where I had like 10 speakers and they all came in and they were like leading astrologers in their different respective traditions, and they were supposed to give a talk about what the best parts of their tradition was and what it had to contribute to any future synthesis of astrology.

我请了罗布·汉德、德梅特拉、本·戴克斯、理查德·塔纳斯，还有其他几位在各自领域领先的占星师。

I had people like Rob Hand and Demetra and Ben Dykes and Richard Tarnas and like a bunch of other astrologers that were leaders in their respective areas.

从那场会议回家后，我沉浸在一种强烈的兴奋中，觉得自己正在占星领域做着真正重要的工作，但接着我不得不回到星巴克的日常工作，那时我才意识到：我再也无法这样下去了。

And then like I came home from that conference just on this high of like you know, doing really important work in the field of astrology, but then I had to go back to my day job at like Starbucks and I realized I was like, can't do this anymore.

我必须做占星这件事，想办法让它成为我的全职事业。

I need to do this astrology thing and make it work somehow so I can do that full time.

我辞了工作，提交了两周的离职通知。

I quit my job and put in my two weeks notice.

接下来的头几年日子很艰难，我吃了大量的意大利面，经济上很拮据，但我相信任何人都有可能成功。

Then there was some rough I ate a lot of spaghetti for the first couple of years there and was pretty broke, but I think it's possible that anybody can make it.

这仅仅取决于你是否足够专注，是否愿意付出努力，我认为这绝对是可能的。

It's just a matter of if you're dedicated enough and you're willing to put in the work, I think it's definitely impossible.

嗯，而且你提到的时间问题确实非常有道理。

Well, yeah, and I think you bring up such a good point too with the time thing.

你本可以用来建设自己想打造之物的全部时间，都被另一份工作占用了。

All of the time that you could be putting into building this thing that you wanna build is taken up by a different job.

这确实非常真实。

That is so that's so very real.

还有一种说法是，如果你想获得什么，就必须放下手中紧握的其他东西，因为紧握的拳头无法接受任何东西。

And there's also this idea, this this saying about like, you know, if you want to receive something, you have to let go of your grip on whatever else you're holding onto because a closed hand can't receive anything.

我一次又一次地不相信这句话，但它似乎不断被证明是对的。

And time and time again, I did not believe that to be true, but it appears to keep being true.

因为我为占星术腾出的时间越多，投入得越多，收获也就越多。

Because the more time I made for astrology, the more time I was able to put into it, the more I got back out.

确实，那句老话说得对：你付出多少，就会得到多少。

Definitely that whole old adage of like, what you put in, you get out.

是的，实际上就是这么简单。

Yeah, pretty simple as that actually.

是的，这很有道理。

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

还有别的吗？

What else?

所以，是的，这不会容易。

So yeah, it's not gonna be easy.

而且对我来说，我也需要写这本书。

And I mean, for me, I needed to write the book as well.

我想写我的书。

I wanted to write my book.

我们花了十年时间在做这件事，这也是它花了这么长时间的原因之一，因为那段时间里，我还要做朝九晚五的工作，或者做其他事情来维持生计，这样才能腾出时间来写这本书。

Was like, we're working on it for ten years, and that was part of why it took so long because also some of that period was like working a day job or doing other things that it took to get by as an astrologer in order to have free time to then like write the book.

实际上，我最近还遇到一件挺有趣的事，有个做有声书的人给我发了邮件，他是专门给有声书配音的，他说：‘嘿，有家公司雇我来录你这本书的有声版，但我最近收到他们一些奇怪的邮件，我才意识到你可能根本不知道这件事。’

And actually I actually had a funny as like an aside, I had a funny thing happen recently where somebody wrote me who was like an audiobook guy that does like narration for audiobooks, he was like, Hey, so this company contracted me to do an audiobook version of your book, but I've been getting some weird emails from them, and I just realized that you may not have any awareness of that.

你给他们授权了吗？

Did you give them permission?

我说：没有。

And I said, no.

所以有家公司随机雇了个人来制作我这本书的有声书，想骗我之类的。

So some company had randomly hired somebody to do an audiobook version of my book and was trying to rip me off or something.

哇哦。

Wow.

这真是太奇怪了。

That's really weird.

什么鬼？

What the heck?

我现在在考虑制作一本有声书，因为多年来一直有人向我提出这个要求，但我一直回应说，我的希腊占星在线课程本质上是我这本书的扩展版，其中我深入讲解了更多内容，而它主要基于一系列音视频讲座。

I'm now thinking about writing an audiobook because people have been asking me for that for years, but I've always responded that my online course in Hellenistic astrology is basically an extended version of my book where I go into much more detail, but it's largely based on a series of audiovideo lectures.

我一直觉得有声书会显得多余，但现在我确实有了做它的充分理由，所以我想我会制作一本有声书。

I always thought an audiobook would be redundant, but now I actually have a good motivation to do that, so I think I'm gonna do an audiobook.

如果有人对这个感兴趣，请在本集的评论里告诉我，这样我才能有动力激励自己去录制一本700页的有声书，以及由此产生的数小时的讲话内容。

If people would be interested in that, let me know in the comments to this episode so I can have some motivation to hype myself up to record a 700 page audiobook and however many hours of talking that's gonna turn into.

这太疯狂了。

That's wild.

哦，我的意思是，我同意你的看法。

Oh, I'm I mean, I agree with you.

这确实是个很好的做法。

It's a really it would be a good thing to do.

不过，祝你顺利。

But, yeah, godspeed.

是的。

Yeah.

谢谢。

Thank you.

不过，作为一位自由职业者，尤其是自出版的人，你经常会遇到这种情况：有时只能靠自己，偶尔会遇到一些意想不到的麻烦，但你只能顺势而为，尽自己所能做好。

So that's one of the things though that you you will encounter as a self employed, you know, sometimes self published person is sometimes just having to look out for yourself, and sometimes you get weird curveballs, but just have to kinda roll with it and do do the best that you can.

对。

Yeah.

我已经经历了好多事了，虽然我真正踏入这个领域才三个月，但已经好几次遇到完全不知道该怎么做的任务——这些事我以前从没做过，但你必须相信自己能搞定，然后你真的就能搞定。

It's been a lot of, already even, I've only really been out in the wild I guess for three months here, and there's already been several instances of me being like, I don't have any idea how to do this task that I am about to do that I've never done before, but you just have to believe that you can figure it out, and you do.

是的，确实都是意外情况。

Yeah, definitely curveballs.

这些情况一直在发生。

Those are happening.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

你接受它们，也没关系。

You take them, and it's fine.

结果都会好起来的。

It turns out fine.

是的。

Yeah.

每次你做完一件事，一旦你做完并学会了，就会稍微记住一点，从而掌握了一项新技能。

And every time you do something, once you do it and learn that thing, it kind of stays with you a little bit and you've acquired another little skill.

每次你再做一次，尤其是拍YouTube视频之类的时候，我总是告诉人们，就先开始做吧，因为一开始你肯定会做得不好，至少回头看是这样。

And every time you do it again, especially with YouTube videos or something like that, I always tell people just to start doing it because you'll do poorly early on basically, at least in retrospect.

你当时会尽最大努力去做，但每次做新的事情时，都会比上次稍好一点，学到一些东西并有所提升。

You'll do the best that you can at the time, but every time you do a new one, you'll do it slightly better and you'll learn something and improve.

随着时间推移，你会变得越来越好。

And over time, you'll just get better and better and better.

但如果你一直拖延，等到觉得完美了才开始这个过程，那你就会错过学习过程中一个至关重要的部分。

But if you hold off and don't start that process until you think it's perfect, then you're gonna miss out on a really crucial piece of the whole process of learning.

我想，这基本和关于咨询的建议如出一辙，不要把这件事拖得太久。

And I guess that's basically the exact same advice or a variation of the advice about consultations as well and not putting that off too

太久。

long.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

说实话，这些东西大多都不是主流学校或大学里教的，完全不是。

Mean, so much of this stuff is is going to be I mean, it's not stuff that you learn in in mainstream school or college, none of this.

所以，我想除非你主修传播学。

So, well, I guess unless you go for like a communications major.

但没错，你会遇到各种问题。

But yeah, you're gonna run into things.

每次你跨过这些小障碍，你的自信心都会增强。

And then your sense of confidence will increase every time you make it over that little hump.

而且你的那种——我们每个人多少都有点习得性失败的感觉，就是总觉得我们做不到。

And your sense of- like, we all kinda have a little bit of learned sense of failure, like, we just assume that we can't do it.

我认为，如果你接受挑战，哪怕是小挑战，当你创业、成为自雇人士时，每一次面对挑战都会让你的自信心越来越强。

And I think if you take on the challenge, even in the little ones, when you're making your own business and you're being your new self employed person, it's just going to build confidence the more and more times you engage with the challenge.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

我在公开演讲时也有这种感觉。

I felt that with public speaking.

你有没有机会做过一些，我想你过去一年经历了整个疫情，但无论如何，学习公开演讲对占星师来说也是一个很好的技能。

Have you gotten to do any I guess you've had the whole pandemic over the past year, but, at some point, like, learning public speaking is a good skill as an astrologer as well.

我想社交媒体，比如做视频或Instagram直播之类的事情，可能是很好的练习方式。

I guess social media and like maybe doing videos or Instagram live and things like that are probably good practice for that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

这确实有帮助。

That helps certainly.

另一件事。

Another thing.

对。

Yeah.

我们不断叠加那些一开始很难的事情，但请无论如何都要去做。

We just keep adding on the things that are like, it's hard when you start, but please just do it anyway.

但当然，演讲方面，我不知道自己是否永远都不会在播客或类似场合前感到紧张。

But, yeah, certainly, speaking, I mean, I don't know if I'll ever not be nervous, before a podcast or before anything like this.

我总会紧张的。

I just always will be.

我只是告诉自己，这些话不是我说的。

And I just tell myself, this was not my words.

这是布鲁斯·斯普林斯汀说的吗？

Was this Bruce Springsteen?

我不确定。

I'm not sure.

但有人说过，当我后台紧张时，并不意味着我害怕，而是意味着我准备好了去行动。

But somebody said, it's like when I'm nervous behind stage, it doesn't mean that I'm scared, it means that I'm ready to do the thing.

所以我只是告诉自己，我不是害怕，我是准备好了去行动。

So I just tell myself, I'm not scared, I'm ready to do the thing.

我对公开演讲就是这种感觉。

That's how I feel about public speaking.

我喜欢这个说法。

I like that.

这很好。

That's good.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

我以前非常紧张，每次要做演讲时都会发抖，尤其是在Kepler，他们让我们进行辩论，有几次我状态很差，表现得一塌糊涂。

I used to be extremely nervous and would shake before having to give some sort of presentation, or at Kepler, they had us do debates, and I was not in good shape at all for a couple of those debates and just did terribly.

但确实，你做得越多，就会逐渐变得轻松得多。

But yeah, it's something that you just the more you do it, you eventually gain it just becomes a lot easier.

到一定程度时，它就不会再让你感到恐慌了。

It stops freaking you out at some point to a certain extent.

确实会，是的。

It does, yeah.

我也相信这有个有效期，因为如果我整整一年都没在舞台上或公众面前做过任何事，那么当我再次回来时，就像重新从第一天开始一样。

I do also believe that there's an expiration date on that because if I go a whole year without doing something on a stage or in front of people, that first time back, it's like day one all over again.

但随后你会逐渐建立耐受力，只是我的舞台恐惧耐受力。

But then you build up tolerance, it's just my stage fright tolerance.

我会对它产生耐受。

I get a tolerance for it.

我做得越多，事情就越容易。

The more I do the stuff, it becomes easier.

是的，当然。

Yeah, for sure.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

我们来看看。

Let's see.

在学习占星术方面，还有没有其他加速你学习进程的事情？比如那些对你特别有帮助、后来在你开始专业从事占星工作时派上用场的经验？

Anything else in terms of learning astrology, things that accelerated your learning path or other things like that that became useful for you, especially in terms of your education of astrology that later really came in handy in terms of starting to do it professionally?

至于那些可能让我快速提升的事情，书籍确实很棒。

As far as things that maybe catapulted me, I mean, books are great.

别只想上网搜索，指望靠谷歌就能找到一切。

Don't try to just go on the internet and the Google machine and hope for the best.

一定要买一些书来看。

Definitely get some books.

我知道有些人会说，把所有占星书籍都扔掉吧。

I know there are people out there who will also say, throw away all your astrology books.

别这么做。

Don't do that.

一定要认真阅读你的书籍。

Definitely read your books.

我觉得尽早融入占星社群也对我帮助极大。

I think getting engaged with the astrology community early on also really really helped me.

它在很多方面帮助了我，不仅是在学习上的智力层面，更在于那种内在的情感韧性，让你即使没有同学或同行者陪伴，也能坚持下去。

It helped me in a lot of ways, not just intellectually with learning, but just that internal kind of emotional fortitude to keep going with it when you don't necessarily have a classmate, or, you know, someone to go along that path with you.

所以对我个人而言，融入这个社群真的非常重要。

So getting involved in the community was really important for me personally.

说到能帮助你的资源，参与社群还能让你了解到别人在使用哪些资源、读哪些书、听哪些播客，如果你主动与外界互动，这些信息很可能会偶然地直接送到你手上，这比坐等它们自己掉到你面前，或独自碰运气发现要快得多。

It also, speaking of resources to get that are gonna help you, getting involved with community, you're gonna learn from other people what resources they're using, what books they're reading, what podcasts they're listening to, and and it's way faster to just get that handed to you by chance if you're engaging with the world, versus just waiting for it to fall in your lap or waiting to stumble across it on your own.

是的。

Yeah.

这很有道理。

That makes a lot of sense.

有太多东西是你不知道自己不知道的，直到你发现原来自己漏掉了这些。

There's so much because you can't know what you don't know until you find out that you didn't know that thing.

而通常，最快的方式就是遇到别人，他们不会告诉你什么秘密，但会指引你正确的方向，或让你了解到你原本不可能知道的信息。

And oftentimes, the quickest way to do that is to meet somebody else that lets you in on not a secret, but points you in the right direction or tells you about something that you wouldn't have known otherwise.

对。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

你所说的，就是你不知道自己不知道什么。

And what you're saying, you don't know what you don't know.

这适用于我们在这个世界上遇到的每一件事，占星学也不例外。

That's with every single thing that we come across in the world, and astrology is no different.

所以，参与社群，或者哪怕只是拿到你的第一本占星书籍，翻上四五百页，然后意识到：哦，原来这确实需要一些努力和时间。

So, getting involved with community, or even just getting your first astrology book, and flipping through 400, 500 pages, and being like, oh yeah, this actually is gonna take a little bit of effort and time.

这一点很重要，尽早认识到这一点很关键。

That is important, that's an important realization to make early on.

所以，是的，我想除了这些，你的播客真的非常棒，因为我正好在你制作那些关于星座和行星含义的视频时加入了进来。

So yeah, I guess other than that, I mean, your podcast has been excellent, just because I I came in right at the right time when you were making all those videos about, like, the signs and the planet meanings.

比如你当时免费放出的四个小时工作坊。

Like a four hour workshop that you were just giving out for free back then.

是的，我从中学到了很多，所以大家都去听吧，听八遍。

Yeah, I learned a lot with that, so listen to that everybody, listen to it eight times.

八遍。

Eight times.

我不确定你是否真的要听八遍，但对我来说，三到四遍是最佳次数。

I don't know if you should listen to it eight times, but definitely three or four is the sweet spot for me.

我是开玩笑的，但你知道的。

I'm kidding, but you know.

好的。

Okay.

对。

Yep.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

那真不错。

That was a good one.

而且，是的，免费提供这些资源。

And, yeah, just making resources available for free.

这是最奇怪的事情之一。

That's one of the weirdest things.

我经常想，现在可能是历史上最适合当占星师的时期，因为我们能接触到海量的信息、各种占星传统和研究工具与应用程序。

Often think about how this is like the best time in history probably ever to be an astrologer because there's we have so much access to information and access to so many different traditions and types of astrology and research tools and apps.

比如，你可以找到一些超棒的免费网站来帮你计算星盘，不只是astro.com，还有AstroSeek和其他各种网站。

Like, you can get some amazing free websites that will calculate charts for you, not just like astro.com, but also like astroseek and all sorts of other websites.

还有像Solar Fire、Astro Gold之类的应用程序，等等。

There's apps like, you know, Solar Fire or Astro Gold or or what have you.

是的。

Yeah.

而且还有大量的免费资源。

And there's also just tons of free resources.

因此，无论收入水平、教育背景如何，几乎每个人现在都有机会学习占星术并成为占星师。

So it's possible to For people of like different income levels or different educational orientations or different things like that from pretty much every level to learn astrology at this point and become an astrologer.

而且，人们现在也有可能以占星师的身份取得成功，获得收入支持，并以合乎道德、负责任或受人尊敬的方式从事这一职业，这可能是历史上前所未有的。

And also, it's possible for people to make it as an astrologer and be successful and have that support them and do it ethically and in a responsible or respectable fashion, maybe more than at any other time in history.

我觉得这一点非常令人兴奋。

I think there's something really exciting about that.

哦，我同意。

Oh, I agree.

我认为未来这种趋势只会越来越强。

And I think it's just gonna be more and more and more of that going forward.

我看不出这个趋势有任何放缓的迹象。

I don't see that trend letting up at all.

事实上，我收到一封邮件，因为我会订阅钱尼·尼科尔斯的通讯，里面有一则招聘信息，薪资高达六位数，职位是直接在占星行业工作，还提供健康福利。

In fact, I got some email from oh, because I get Channy Nichols, Nicholas, her newsletter, and there was a job posting that was like a it was like a a 6 figure salary job posting to work in the astrology industry essentially, and there were health benefits.

没错。

Right.

我的意思是，我认为这同样是非常前所未有的。

I mean, I think that that also is pretty unprecedented.

对吧？

Right?

我不知道瓦伦斯那时候有没有健康福利，但是

I don't know if, Valens had health benefits, but

是的。

Yeah.

我认为他在公元二世纪的埃及时是有福利的。

I think he did in Egypt in the second century.

他当时其实过得很艰难。

He was having a hard time actually.

有些占星师现在过得非常好，非常成功，能够养活自己并蓬勃发展。

Some astrologers are doing really well and being really successful and being able to support themselves and flourish.

这对我来说是最重要的事，也是我一直希望看到的，这不仅是做这个播客、希望提升公众对占星学教育水平的原因，也是像今天这一期节目想要鼓励那些一直犹豫是否要迈出这一步的占星师们的原因。

That's the biggest thing for me and that's something I've always wanted to see and it's one of the reasons not just for the podcast and wanting to help raise the bar in terms of public education of astrology, but also episodes like this to kind of encourage other astrologers to take that leap if they've been thinking about it.

因为我觉得这是完全可能的，我不认为这个领域已经饱和到人满为患，相反，现在人们对占星学的兴趣比以往任何时候都高，我尤其希望看到更多优秀的占星师，从事有责任感、有良知的占星工作。我很想鼓励更多这样的人进入这个行业，让他们相信自己真的可以立足并生存下去。

Because I do think it's possible and I don't think that the field is like oversaturated or something like that so that there's too much But instead, there's also just a lot more interest in astrology in general at this time and a lot more people that I especially want to see more astrologers that are good astrologers doing good astrology that's conscientious, and I would love to encourage more of those people to come into the field and feel like they could actually make it and survive.

是的，我也同意这一点。

Yeah, I agree with that as well.

我认为这非常重要。

I think that is very important.

我并不一定在寻找某种标准化的占星模型，但我确实非常欣赏你所说的这种标准的提升，以及人们能够如此深思熟虑。

I'm not necessarily looking for some standardized model of astrology or anything, but I certainly do appreciate seeing that bar raised, and seeing people be very thoughtful, like you're saying.

而且，乍一看，占星领域似乎已经饱和了，但我不这么认为。

And even, you know, it does seem like, at first glance, like it could be kind of a saturated field, but I I don't think that it is.

我的意思是，如果你看着占星领域，心想：‘有这么多占星师都这么优秀，我什么都不会，我凭什么能做这个？’

I mean, in the same way, if you're if you're looking at the astrology field thinking, oh, there's like, all of these astrologers, they're really great, I don't know anything, why would I ever do this?

我不觉得这个领域饱和了。

I don't think it's saturated.

我们需要大量的占星师来帮助所有人，就像我们需要大量的医生、大量的按摩师，以及各个领域的大量从业者一样。

We need many many astrologers to to help all of the people, just how we need many many many physicians, and many many masseuses, and many everybody's in those fields.

就像他们并不一定都是那样的。

Like, they're not necessarily like Yeah.

总有人需要这项服务。

There's always people that are gonna need this this service.

它已经存在了几千年。

So, it's been around for thousands of years.

我不认为它会消失，所以我觉得我们可以对此感到乐观。

I don't think it's going anywhere, so I think we can feel pretty good about it.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一种有用的服务，你可以提供给人们，因为无论你的占星知识水平如何，特别是当你与一位对占星了解不多的客户交谈时，只要你比他们懂得多一点，或者在某个方面略懂一些，甚至只是对他们的出生图有稍微不同的解读，这都是很有价值的，是你能提供给他们的真正有益的东西。

And it is a useful, like, service that you can offer people because even no matter what your knowledge level of astrology is, especially if you're talking to a client who doesn't have much background in astrology, if you know more than them or if you know even a little bit more in some area or even if you just have a slightly different take on their birth chart than than what they're used to and what they've used to to seeing, that's actually useful and that's a valid and and, you know, valuable thing that you can offer them.

嗯。

Mhmm.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我在咨询中注意到，很多时候，我用来为他们提供洞察或引导他们与出生图对话的知识，并不是我所掌握的最深奥的部分。

And I've I've noticed that, plenty in my consults where, you know, the knowledge that I am actually using to provide that insight for them or to kind of guide them through a dialogue with their chart, It's not the most advanced stuff I know.

实际上，我现在在咨询实践中很少使用星盘释放法，因为根本没必要用到它。

I very, actually, rarely am using zodiacal releasing at this point in my consulting practice, because it's just, I haven't even needed to go there, necessarily.

因为这往往又很复杂。

Because again, it is a lot of times.

这其实很简单，尤其是当你面对的是很少接受过解读的人时。

It's really simple stuff, especially if you have someone who hasn't got many readings.

我认为，随着越来越多的人对占星服务产生兴趣，我们正经历着大量新手或占星爱好者涌入，他们其实并不了解多少高深的知识。

And I think the more interest that we get in, you know, people More and more people are interested in astrology services, and that means that we're having this huge influx, at least in my opinion, a huge influx of lay people or astrology enthusiasts who really just don't know that much advanced knowledge.

我完全同意，如果你想提供咨询，只要比你的客户懂得多一点就够了。

I completely agree that if you want a consult, just need to know more than your client.

是的。

Yes.

有

There's a

很大可能你确实懂更多，因为占星师有时会低估自己实际掌握的知识。

good chance that you do, just because astrologers sometimes tend to underestimate how much they actually know.