射手座在占星学中的含义与特质

其中一个有趣的方式是，迪士尼做的很多工作都是基于第四宫的含义，第四宫代表我们的家庭，也代表祖先和过去，以及你从家族和过去继承下来的东西。

And one of ways that's interesting is like a lot of what Disney did was took because the fourth house is like our family, but also like ancestry and the past and the things that you inherit from the past and from your family.

他所做的是，取材了许多古老的童话和长期流传下来的文化故事，然后通过这些动画电影以现代的方式重新诠释了它们。

What he took is he took a lot of old fairy tales and a lot of old cultural stories and stuff that had been passed down for a very long time and then sort of reinterpreted those in a modern context through those those animated films.

是的。

Yeah.

这真是

That's a

一个很好的观点。

really good point.

你也可以把这些故事看作是一种神话，我想。

And you can look at these stories in a way as like a sort of mythology too, I guess.

我会把这和射手座联系起来，因为射手座关乎象征意义和故事讲述。

And I would relate that to Sagittarius as it's like symbolism and, you know, storytelling.

我觉得讲故事也是射手座的一个很好的关键词。

I feel like storytelling is also a good Sagittarius word.

就像是想要分享这些想法和这些事物。

It's like wanting to share ideas and share these things.

就像你所说的，第四宫代表过去，它把历史带入当下，以一种富有创意的方式与人们分享。

And like you said, with the fourth house being kind of the past, it's bringing history forward and making it creative, a creative way to share it with people.

而且这很有趣、很纯真。

And it's, like, fun and innocent.

这就是迪士尼。

And it's Disney.

这是一部卡通，但这些故事其实都源自真实的过往，或许有些难以直视，但他让它们变得可感知、可分享。

It's a cartoon, but these are, like, real past stories that are maybe a little difficult to really look at, but he makes it palpable and shareable.

他是一个伟大的讲故事的人，我认为他是这个行业中的先驱。

He's a great storyteller and I would say pioneer in that industry.

是的。

Yeah.

另一个宏观层面的事情是建造像迪士尼世界和迪士尼乐园这样的庞大项目。

And the other big picture thing is also building those huge things like Disney World and Disneyland.

而且，其中一些构想也非常具有前瞻性，在规模和宏观长远思维上都非常宏大，而不是局限于小范围或孤立的项目。

And, some of those were also very forward thinking, but also huge in terms of scale and thinking big picture and long term rather than something small or more isolated.

是的。

Yeah.

这是个非常好的观点。

That's a really good point.

迪士尼世界，迪士尼乐园。

Disney World, Disneyland.

我认为人们曾批评他过于乐观，抱有这些他们认为不可能实现的宏大构想。

I think people would criticize him for being so optimistic and having these big ideas that they thought it wouldn't work out.

当《白雪公主与七个小矮人》刚上映时，人们称其为迪士尼的疯狂之举，认为这纯粹是浪费金钱和精力，不可能成功。

People called Snow White and the Seven Dwarves Disney's folly when it first came out because they thought it was just a massive waste of of money and and energy and that it wouldn't be successful.

但他相信自己的梦想。

But, he believed in his dreams.

他相信这些构想一定会成功。

He believed that this this would work.

关于他，有个有趣的故事，说他最初在商业上非常不擅长，也谈不上成功，直到他把哥哥拉入伙。

There's a a funny story about him apparently being very bad at at business and not really being very successful initially until he brought his brother in.

哥哥负责处理所有商业事务，而沃尔特则专注于他的创意。

And the brother took care of the business side of things while this you know, Walt focused on, you know, his creativity.

我认为这常常体现在射手座身上：当你专注于远大梦想和宏伟计划时，往往会忽视周围日常琐碎的事情。

And I think that's a thing that often comes up with Sagittarius is like a disregard for what's going on around you, of everyday mundane things while you're focusing on your big dreams and your big plans.

有时候，射手座需要身边有像处女座或摩羯座这样的人来帮助他们，真正实现自己的目标。

And sometimes Sagittarius needs someone around them, like perhaps someone with some Virgo or Capricorn placements to to help them, to actually achieve what they wanna achieve.

因为他们满脑子都是想法，但要把这些想法变成现实，有时却更困难。

Because they're all about the ideas, but then actually making it into a reality is sometimes a bit more hard.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这正是摩羯座的修正功能发挥作用的地方：提供必要的结构和处理那些必须处理的事务，让射手座能够尽情享受、保持乐观，追求这些疯狂而大胆的梦想，而摩羯座则负责承担责任。

And I feel like that's where the corrective function of Capricorn comes back into is, like, allowing that structure and the things that need to be taken care of, so that you can so that the Sag can have fun and be optimistic and pursue these crazy wild dreams, and then Capricorn can take care of the responsibilities.

我们需要行政支持，或者像会计这样的人。

We need the admin support or like the the accountant or something.

是的。

Yes.

爸爸，你能做到的。

Like, dad, you can do this.

对吧？

Right?

这让我想起了一个趣闻：迪士尼乐园在第一天开业时遭遇了惨败。

This just reminded me of this anecdote that Disneyland had actually a disastrous opening in first day.

我刚快速搜索了一下，找到一篇文章，列出了迪士尼乐园开业当天发生的十件灾难性失误。

And I just did a really quick search and came up with this article where it says 10 things that went disastrously wrong in Disneyland's opening day.

文章开头有一句有趣的话：迪士尼乐园通常被称为地球上最快乐的地方。

And it had this funny line at the beginning where it says Disneyland is commonly known as the happiest place on earth.

我觉得这真的很有趣，因为像迪士尼的沃尔特·迪士尼这样太阳和天王星落在第四宫的射手座，竟然创造了一个被称为地球上最快乐的地方的地方。

I think that's really funny for like a Sagittarius like Disney's Walt Disney's Sun and Uranus in the fourth house and just like creating a place known as the happiest place on Earth.

但文章说，1955年乐园开业时，并没有达到如今广为人知的这个绰号所代表的水平。

But it says, but when that park opened in 1955, it didn't live up to its now ubiquitous nickname.

事实上，当天幸存下来的迪士尼员工称这一天为‘黑色星期日’。

In fact, Disney employees who survived the day referred to it as Black Sunday.

所以，这很有趣，因为从大局出发、大胆推出时，有时会因前期规划或考虑不够周全而遭遇挫折。

So it's just funny in terms of that whole having a big picture and going for it launching it, but then sometimes they can stumble early on because it's not always perfectly planned or thought out ahead of time.

是的。

Mhmm.

是的。

Mhmm.

我其实有一个很棒的小故事想讲，关于这个射手座的问题——只关注大局而忽视眼前细节，这在伊索寓言中是一个古老而经典的故事。

I actually had a great little anecdote I wanted to tell or a story I wanted to tell on this that talks about this issue of Sagittarius, like, focusing on the big picture and missing the the details and what's in front of them, which is an old old, story that comes up in Aesop's fables.

但这个故事最早也可以追溯到柏拉图的一段对话中。

But it's also present in I think the earliest telling of it is in a dialogue of Plato.

我觉得它叫《泰阿泰德篇》。

I think it's called the theitatis.

我可能把那个希腊词念错了。

I'm probably massacring that Greek word.

在对话中，他们讨论的是哲学家与普通人之间的区别。

In the dialogue, they're talking about the difference between philosophers and, you know, ordinary people.

柏拉图用一位名叫泰勒斯的哲学家作为例子，他是有记载的最早期希腊哲学家之一。

And Plato says uses as an example the story of the philosopher Thales or Thales, who was one of the earliest Greek philosophers on record.

有一个故事说，他晚上走在田野里，仰望着星空，思索着星星的运行，被天体的奥秘深深吸引，充满敬畏。

There's a story of him walking through, the field at night and gazing up at the stars and, like, wondering at the stars and wondering how they work and, like, just, you know, inspired and full of awe at the mystery of the heavens.

然后他不小心绊倒，掉进了一口井里。

And then he trips and falls into a well.

旁边有一位女田工，正好在场。

And there's a, like, a a field hand nearby, a female.

她走过来，把这个人从井里拉出来，责备他说：‘泰勒斯啊，你总是仰望天空，琢磨天上的事，却连脚下发生什么都看不清。’

She comes up and she helps this guy out of the out of the well and she scolds him, you know, and she says, oh, Tailies, you're always looking up at the heavens and wondering at what's going on in the heavens, you don't even know what's happening at your feet.

我认为这真是一个绝佳的射手座小故事。

And I think that is just a great, like, Sagittarius anecdote.

我觉得这非常贴合射手座的原型：我们的思绪总在追寻宏大的理念，思考事物的美与神秘，却常常忽略了身边正在发生的事，而这些事有时恰恰对我们的安全与福祉至关重要。

I think that fits really well with the Sagittarius archetype where, our minds are off looking and contemplating big ideas and the beauty and wonder of things, but we often miss what's happening around us and things that are actually really important for our safety and well-being sometimes as well.

我觉得这让我想到，射手座内心深处其实既有好的一面，也有坏的一面。

I feel like that reminds me of that there is, like, this deep within good and bad, like, within Sagittarius.

射手座确实有非常积极美好的一面，但也需要平衡，因为我觉得射手座也有阴暗的一面。

Like, there's this positive great side to Sagittarius, but there is a balance needed because there is a dark side to Sagittarius, I think.

你知道的，他们是从天蝎座来的。

You know, they're coming from the Scorpio.

就像你所说的，掉进井里了。

And like you said, I mean, falling into the well.

如果你只关注这些美好的事物，而不去留意负面的东西，那么当事情不如意时，你就会感到失望。

Like, if you're only focused on these good things and not paying attention to the bad, then, you know, you're gonna be disappointed when things don't go your way.

我觉得木星确实容易让人头脑飘在云端，射手座有必要保持脚踏实地，提醒自己面对现实，不要总是仰望星空，想想这到底意味着什么？

And I do think of, like, Jupiter is kinda getting your heads head lost in the clouds a little bit, and, you do you know, like, it's important for Sagittarius to stay grounded and reminded of reality and not just always looking to the heavens, looking, you know, what does this mean?

也许答案就在这里。

It's like, well, maybe the answer is right here.

对。

Right.

这个故事真有趣，罗布，因为后来在一部叫《亚历山大传奇》的作品中也有类似的改编，那是一系列在罗马帝国时期流传的关于亚历山大大帝的奇幻故事。

That's funny that story, Rob, because there's like a later adaptation of that in something called the Alexander Romance, which is like this series of stories that were like fanciful stories in the Roman Empire about Alexander the Great.

其中一个故事的情节类似，只不过主角是年幼的亚历山大大帝，他正接受一位占星家的教导。

And one of them, it had to do It was like the same setup except it was like a young child Alexander the Great who was being taught by an astrologer.

有一天，那位占星家抬头仰望星空，边走边谈，滔滔不绝地谈论哲学，结果一不小心掉进了一个坑里，摔伤了自己。

And the astrologer was off like watching the stars one day and just looking at the sky and walking and talking and waxing very philosophical on things, then he like fell into a hole and like hurt himself.

亚历山大于是说了些类似的话，比如：‘占星家，你是不是该多留意一下自己走路的地方？’之类的话。

And Alexander like says something like negative about like, maybe you should pay more attention to where you're walking astrologer or something like that.

所以，这个故事在占星学里也有一个有趣的版本。

So there's, a funny astrology version of that story as well.

是的。

Yeah.

我听说，在17世纪对占星家的抨击中，这个故事曾被提及。

I've heard that it came up in, like, attacks on astrologers in the seventeenth century.

它成为了一种流行的方式，用来嘲讽占星家，嗯。

Like, it became a popular, like, way to mock astrologers for, like Mhmm.

就是那种超然、与现实脱节的状态。

Being, like, aloof and, like, disconnected from reality.

所以，是的，这确实有点讽刺地契合了我们这个播客所讨论的主题。

So, yeah, it is sort of it's got a funny pertinence to to, you know, our blame of our podcast, I suppose.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Well For sure.

我正想说，阿什莉，你之前提到过射手座的阴暗面，那是什么？

I was just gonna say what what's something you said, Ashley, about the the dark side of Sagittarius?

这个话题值得聊聊，因为在我的个人生活中，我认识很多射手座的人，他们似乎总围绕在我身边。

It's worth talking about that because in my personal life, I know a great many Sagittariuses, they seem to gather around me.

但其中很多人的生命中都经历过很长一段时间的悲伤和抑郁。

But a lot of them have actually been through great periods of like sadness and depression in their lives.

这是我注意到的一点。

It's something I've noticed.

我认为这部分原因在于，射手座的乐观、孩子般的惊奇感，以及那种开放和信任的特质，可能会受到严重的伤害。

I think part of that can be that the optimism and that sort of childlike wonder and sort of that openness and trusting quality of Sagittarius can be really badly hurt.

如果他们经历重大的挫折，或者遭遇对他人的残忍、仇恨，或者被欺凌、受害，这类经历会让射手座很难从中恢复，因为他们会在那一刻失去乐观，失去那种生活的热情。

And, you know, if they experience like a major setback or if they experience cruelty towards them or hatred towards them or if they're like bullied or victimized or those kinds of experiences, it can be really difficult for a Sagittarius to actually recover from that because they lose their optimism in that moment and they lose their joy, that sort of joie de vie.

有时候，要从这种低谷中爬出来，真的非常困难。

And sometimes digging yourselves out of that hole, you know, is really difficult.

因此，射手座是有脆弱性的，因为他们过于专注于积极的一面，一旦这种积极被剥夺，他们就很难恢复过来。

So there's a vulnerability to Sagittarius because they are so focused on the positive that if that gets If that's robbed from them, then it's very difficult for them to recover from it.

是的。

Yeah.

这非常重要。

That's really important.

我也注意到了这一点，射手座在面对土星影响强烈的人，比如摩羯座，可能会感到自己的热情被压制，因为后者更悲观。

And I've noticed that as well just something Sagittariuses can struggle with versus let's say Capricorns or people with heavy Saturn placements as they can feel like their fire is being like squelched if the Saturn influenced person is more pessimistic or something.

这种感觉令人窒息，因为射手座几乎必须拥有希望和乐观，才能推动自己前进。

Feel stifling because the Sagittarius almost like needs to have that hope and optimism in order to drive them forward.

当有人不断泼冷水时，这种火焰可能会开始受损或变得艰难。

When somebody's throwing water on that fire a little bit too much, it can feel like their flame is starting to suffer or starting to struggle as a result.

是的。

Yeah.

这让我想到，与其说这是射手座的负面特质，不如说它可能带来不利影响。

And that makes me think of not necessarily, like, making this, like, a negative side to Sag, but it could be detrimental, I guess.

回到弓箭的比喻，乐观、不断前进，我们喜欢设定目标。

I mean, going back to the bow and arrow, you know, optimism, always moving forward, We love to have goals.

我们喜欢达成目标。

We do like to achieve.

我们总是需要有追求的方向。

We like to always have something to be aiming toward.

我们总是在追逐些什么。

We always you know, we're hunting something.

我们总是想追逐些什么。

We always wanna be hunting for something.

一旦我们达成了所追求的目标，就会失去一部分自我，因为我们不再有目标了。

And once we achieve what we've been hunting or what we've been shooting for, then we lose a little bit of ourselves because we don't have a goal anymore.

我们不再有需要追逐的东西了。

We don't have that thing to chase anymore.

所以我对自己有了这样的观察。

So I've noticed that with myself.

我有太多感兴趣的事情，因为一旦实现了一个，我就会陷入停滞。

I have so many things that I'm interested in because if I achieve one of them, then I'm just stagnant at that point.

我觉得我们总是需要新的目标来集中注意力，或许值得平衡的是，不要过于乐观，以至于忽略了生活中其他事情和目标。

And I, you know, I feel like we always need something new to set our minds to, and that might be worth balancing is not being too overly optimistic that you're forgetting about all these other things in your life and other goals.

是的。

Yeah.

这是个很好的观点。

That's a that's a good point.

这种乐观主义有时会带来一个棘手的问题，那就是你可能会陷入一种近乎魔法般的思维，而有时这种思维确实有效——因为乐观的人相信自己能实现目标，于是更努力地去尝试，结果反而更成功，或者运气更好。

The other thing that can be tricky sometimes with that type of optimism is that sometimes you get into almost magical thinking which sometimes works out for those people that the optimism actually carries it through and it has this weird reinforcing loop effect of because the person is so optimistic and thinks they can't accomplish things, they try to accomplish more and are sometimes more successful as a result of that or have luck.

他们某种程度上天生运气好，因此在完成某些事情上比其他人更成功。

They just happen to be lucky as a trait to some extent and more successful in accomplishing some things than other people.

有时他们会陷入一种心态，认为一切都在通过乐观和《秘密》之类的理念被显化出来。

And sometimes they can get into the mindset of manifest that everything's being manifested through their optimism with the secret or something like that.

而这种心态的阴暗面在于，他们不理解并非每个人都有这样的好运，也不明白有些人陷入困境并非他们的错。

And then sometimes the shadow side of that can be not understanding that not everybody else is that lucky or that there are people that fall into hard times and it's not necessarily their fault.

有时他们会不自觉地变成一种受害者有罪论，认为只要每个人都足够乐观、积极思考并努力显化，结果就会对每个人都一样，却没能意识到这并不适用于每个人。

That sometimes they can become almost victim blaming in a way by assuming that if everybody was just as optimistic or thought and tried to manifest things that it would work out the same for everybody and not really getting it when that's not equally true for every person.

是的，确实如此。

Yeah, definitely.

这也让我想到，对于射手座的人来说，有时很难理解他人的观点，因为他们太固守自己的思维方式和所拥有的工具了。我觉得我们可能会有一种救世主情结或优越感，觉得‘我才是对的，你做的不对，我不明白你为什么不用我的方法，毕竟我的方法对我有效，而且我运气好’。

And that also reminds me too that it is difficult for Sagittarians, I think, sometimes to see other people's views, because they're so set in their way of thinking and the tools that they're equipped with that, you know, I feel like we can kind of have that god complex or superiority complex where it's like, well, I'm right and what you're doing is wrong, and I don't know why you're not just doing it the way that I'm doing it because it works out for me and I'm lucky.

我觉得我们真的需要时刻提醒自己，不要去评判和批评他人，因为我们的真相是有效的，但真相有多种，不只是射手座这一种。

And and I I just feel like that's something that we really need to keep in mind and not judge and criticize other people, because our side of the truth is valid, but there are many sides of truth, not just the Sag side.

我觉得双子座在这方面可能做得更好一些。

And I think that's kind of where Gemini actually does this a bit better, I guess.

他们是双子。

They are the twins.

所以他们天生倾向于看到两面，或者看到另一面，具有这种二元性，比如：好吧。

So they're naturally inclined to seeing two sides or seeing another side or having that duality where they're like, okay.

这里还有另一种观点。

There is another opinion here.

而射手座则有点不同，他们觉得对立就是不一样的，他们会想：我的真理才是对的。

Whereas Sagittarius is a little being opposite is a little different, and they're like, well, my truth is right.

而我有时候也很难理解别人的立场。

And I, you know, struggle seeing other people's sides sometimes.

我认为射手座有一种评判的特质。

There's a judgmental quality to Sagittarius, I think.

比如让我想起中世纪占星术中，木星被赋予法官的形象，也就是那个拥有权威地位的人。

Like, I'm reminded of the way that in the medieval, astrology, they would assign Jupiter to the the figure of the judge, you know, in like, the person who has that position of authority.

因此，射手座常常有一种感觉：我是真理的裁决者。

And so that, you know, Sagittarius often has that feeling of that I am the I am the arbiter of the truth.

我就是法官，我有权力决定什么是对的、什么是错的。

I am the the judge, and I have the authority to, like, say what's right and wrong.

所以，这在好的方面可能会让人产生一种高尚的精神，但在负面方面，也可能让人产生一种傲慢的思维方式，认为自己已经看透了一切。

So there's a almost like a like in in a in a good way, it can create kind of like a noble spirit in someone, but on the downside, it can create like kind of an arrogant way of thinking about things where you just think that you've got it all figured out.

我知道这一点，因为我深有感触，这让我感到无比真实，这种感觉激励着我，让我充满真理的信念。

You know, I've thought about this and I know that it's right because I feel it deeply and this is something that inspires me and fills me with this feeling of like truth.

你的观点不可能是对的，因为那会夺走我这种感受。

So your perspective can't be right because that will take away that feeling from me.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我认为，这或许是射手座的另一个阴影面，就是那种必须正确、必须显得权威的需求。

And I think, yeah, it's another sort of shadow side, I suppose, of Sagittarius is this need to be right and this need to appear authoritative.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我认为射手座非常害怕的一件事，就是被证明是错的，或者被弄得显得愚蠢可笑。

And I think one of the things that Sagittarius fears a lot is being shown to be wrong or being made to look foolish or or, you know, silly.

尽管我们非常擅长让自己看起来那样。

Even though we're very good at making ourselves look that way.

但只有在

But only if

我们让自己显得可笑的时候。

we make ourselves look silly.

别人不行，如果我们是，是的。

No one else If we're yeah.

如果我们被允许自嘲的话

If we're, like, if we're allowed to mock ourselves

是的。

Yeah.

但别人不被允许嘲笑我们，这有一种，嗯。

But no one no one else is allowed to mock us, There's a sort of a like an yeah.

我不知道该怎么形容，有一种超然的气质，一种骄傲或庄重的感觉，属于射手座。

I don't know how to put it like an aloof quality and like a kind of a like a proud or, like dignified, like sort of feeling to Sagittarius.

他们有一种尊严感，对自己有一种自豪感。

They have like a bit of dignity, like pride in themselves.

让射手座生气、激发出他们火气的一种方式，就是嘲笑他们、侮辱他们，或者当众羞辱他们。

And one way to really make a Sagittarius angry and bring out that fire is to mock them or insult them or, like, just publicly humiliate them.

这是射手座绝对无法忍受的事情，这时你就会看到，当射手座的特质显现时，那种愤怒和神圣的怒火。

That is something that Sagittarius just absolutely cannot stand, and that's when you'll see, like, some of the anger and like that sort of that divine fury if you like the Sagittarius trait comes through.

我现在想到的一个短语，我觉得你们说的这些正好可以用这个短语来形容射手座，那就是‘皈依者的热情’。

One of the phrase that I'm thinking of now that I think as both of you are saying this that I think would be a perfect phrase for Sagittarius is the passion of a convert.

你们听说过这个说法吗？

Have you ever heard of this?

我查了维基词典的定义，上面说：这是一个人刚投身于新任务或新信仰时表现出的极端热情。

I looked at the definition on Wiktionary and it it says the extreme enthusiasm shown by a person who has recently taken to a new task or a new set of beliefs.

它举了个例子：吉姆成为素食主义者时，展现出了皈依者的热情。

So it gives an example, Jim showed the passion of a convert when he became a vegan.

或者这是一种观察：有时在某种宗教环境中长大的人，比如某种宗教，他们对这种环境已经习以为常，了解其中的利弊，往往对事物持一种温和的态度。

Or it's like an observation that sometimes people that grow up in a certain religious setting, let's say with a certain religion, are kind of used to it and they understand the pros and cons and everything and have sometimes a moderate approach to things.

但有时候，当一个人皈依了新的宗教，或者找到了新的信仰体系、新的方法，甚至是一种做事的新方式时，他们会无比热情，想要四处传播，告诉每个人，并成为这种新事物的传道者。

But sometimes when somebody converts to a new religion or they find a new belief system or a new approach or even a new just way of doing things, they're so enthusiastic about it that they want to spread it around and tell everybody about it and sort of become an evangelist for that thing.

我认为这有时就是射手座的特质。

And I think sometimes that can be a Sagittarius trait.

这是卡米尔在这里写下的其中一个特质。

It's one of the ones that Camille wrote down here.

传道者、传教士、自以为是的真理狂热者，是的。

The evangelist, the missionary, the know it all truthiness Yeah.

有时甚至会走向教条主义，甚至在某些情况下变得僵化。

And sometimes even going over into being dogmatic or even rigid in some instances.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

就我个人而言，我曾经好几次扮演过这样的人，我能想到至少两个例子。

Just in my personal life, I have been that person several times in like, I can think of at least two examples.

一个是当我开始接触占星术的时候，这两件事其实有关联。

One was when I, like was they're both kind of related when I got into astrology.

我当时特别感兴趣的是传统占星术，结果成了某种传统占星术的极端拥护者，我想是这样。

And then and I was particularly interested in traditional astrology, and I became something of like a like a traditional astrology chauvinist, I guess.

我当时会说：哦，你知道吗，你做的是现代占星术。

Like I was like, oh, you know, you do modern astrology.

对你来说这也许还行，但我感兴趣的是真正的占星术，quote unquote。

That's that's okay for you, but I'm interested in like the real astrology quote unquote.

有好几年，我对这件事的态度真的很糟糕。

And I was like really like awful about that for a few years.

有趣的是，这同时也与我重新对宗教产生兴趣的时间重合。

And it was interesting that that coincided as well with my resurging interest in religion.

当时我一定经历了某种强烈的第九宫激活之类的。

I must have had some big ninth house activation or something at this time.

但我不仅开始深入研究占星术，还重新找回了自己的信仰，开始重返教堂之类的事情。

But I I got into astrology as well as sort of rediscovering my faith, and started going back to church and things like this.

关于宗教，我没有像对占星术那样令人讨厌，但我确实带着一种皈依者的热情，重新拥抱了我的基督教传统。

And I had that I wasn't like as insufferable about my religion as I was about astrology actually, but I did have that kind of passion of the convert when it came to, yeah, like like re embracing my my Christian, you know, tradition.

而且，是的，我在四旬期里对自我克制简直到了疯狂的地步，做了很多类似的事情。

And, yeah, I was taking things probably a bit too far in terms of, like like, in Lent, I just went, like, crazy with, like, self denial and things like that.

我简直走得太极端了，让周围的人都感到震惊，他们都说：‘哇哦。’

Like, I just took it to an extreme to in a way that was, like, really noticeable to people around me that were like, woah.

你知道吗，这种变化是从哪儿来的？

You know, like, where is this coming from?

从那以后我变得平和多了，但回想起自己曾经那样，还挺有趣的，这种倾向确实需要我加以克制。

I've mellowed out a lot since then, but it's funny to sort of reflect that I I have been that person, and it's a tendency that I I have to sort of, like, moderate.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

我能理解。

I can relate.

阿什利，你有没有过类似的具体经历，或者经历过这样的阶段？

Have you had a specific instance of that, Ashley, or like a phase of something like that?

我的意思是，你的例子也说明了传统与现代之间的对比，哦，我研究这个问题的方式是正确的。

I mean, your example also, the traditional versus modern, oh, the way that I study this is right.

而且，再次强调，这又回到了真相不止一面这一点上。

And really, again, that's where it goes back into there's more than one side to the truth.

世界上有多种语言，萨吉塔里乌斯，你可能在用不同的语言表达同样的意思。

There's a lot of different languages in the world, which language, Sagittarius, and you could be saying the same thing, but it's in a different language.

但这并不意味着它是错的。

And it doesn't mean that it's wrong.

你依然在传达相似的想法。

You're still conveying the same kind of ideas.

所以，是的，我确实经历过这样的挣扎。

So, yeah, I've definitely had that struggle.

我不知道这是否相关，但我的笔记里有这一点。

This there's I don't know if this is related, but I have this in my notes.

我爸爸也是射手座，我记得小时候，他总是非常认真地告诉我，他什么都知道，真的知道世界上的一切。

My dad is a Sagittarius also, and I remember when I was a kid, he would just so seriously tell me all the time that he knows everything, that he literally knows everything in the world.

我可以问他任何问题，他都能告诉我。

And I could ask him anything, and he could tell it to me.

就像，我什么都知道，阿什莉。

Like, I know everything, Ashley.

我只是想，怎么可能？

And I'm just like, how?

你怎么会是一本书？

How are you a book?

你怎么可能什么都知道？

How do you know everything?

随着我长大，我才明白，你其实什么都不知道。

And as I grow older, I'm like, you don't know everything.

但那种感觉就是，我是对的，我什么都知道，我是大师。

But just having that, like, I'm right, and I know everything, and I'm the master.

如果你需要学习任何东西，都可以来找我。

You can come to me if you need to learn anything.

而且我觉得，作为 Mutable 星座，这其实对我们有利，因为我们总是给人一种‘我们什么都知道’的印象，你有什么问题来找我们，我们就能帮你找到答案。

And, I think too, being mutable, it does kind of work in our favor that, like, we give that, oh, we know everything, and you can come to us with something, and we'll figure out that answer for you.

我们的知识面足够广，愿意去研究和学习，但我们会提前撒个谎，说我们早就知道了。

We're we're broadened enough that we're willing to research and learn it, but we're gonna lie ahead of time and say we already know it.

是的。

Yeah.

我父亲也是射手座，Ashley，我表示同情。

I have a Sagittarius father as well, Ashley, and my condolences.

这个故事让我想起了一些关于我父亲的回忆，他确实就像你说的那样，呃，他还活着。

That story triggered some like, some memories in me about my own father who like like, yeah, he did have definitely I mean, you know, he's still alive.

他就是那种什么都知道的人。

He has that he has that know it all quality to him.

某种程度上，这也有道理，因为他花很多时间广泛阅读各种不同主题的书籍。

I mean, in some level, it's justified because he spends a lot of time reading very widely about all sorts of different topics.

他非常有学识。

He's very intellectual.

而且我觉得爱学习是射手座的另一个特质——我们就是热爱学习。

And I think that's another trait in Sagittarius is like, we love to learn.

就是典型的永远的学生形象。

It's the eternal student archetype.

还有其他几个星座也具备射手座的这种特质。

And a few different signs have this quality of Sagittarius as well.

这种热爱学习的劲头，总是在不断学习，还很享受沉浸在学习状态里，喜欢待在那种偏学术性、抽离出来的空间里，抱着书本、看着纪录片，汲取各类知识。

This, like, passion for learning, Often, like, always learning and and preferring to be in that learning space, preferring to be in that kind of academic detached place of books and documentary films and absorbing knowledge.

我还会把刷维基百科当消遣呢。

Like, I read Wikipedia for fun.

我就是这样的人，你懂吧？

Like, that's the kind of person that I am, you know?

我爸爸在这方面和我有点像。

And my dad's kinda similar in that way.

当你真正不知道某个问题的答案，实际上并没有掌握所有答案、所有知识时，这会让人感到谦卑。

And and then it's it's, like, humbling when when you actually don't know the answer to something and you don't actually have, like, all the answers, you don't actually have all the knowledge.

是的。

Yeah.

我认识的很多射手座都是非常聪明的人，能吸收大量信息。

A lot of Sagittarius I know are, like, very intelligent people and, like, absorb a huge amount of information.

但要把这些信息有效地传达给别人却很有挑战性，而且也不一定能真正帮助他们改善生活。

But, actually conveying that to other people can be challenging And, it doesn't necessarily always help them with their lives as well.

他们非常聪明，但这种聪明并不一定转化为今生中的物质成功。

Like, they're very smart, but not that doesn't necessarily translate into, like, you know, like material success in this in this lifetime.

或者，比如对很多不同事物都了解一些，就像旅行或漫无目的地游荡，到处收集零散的知识，但这些知识并不总是实用的，未必能立即派上用场。

Or, yeah, knowing a lot about a bunch of different things, sort of like traveling or wandering around collecting little bits of knowledge everywhere, but that not always necessarily being practical knowledge that's like immediately useful per se.

对。

Yeah.

就像一只知识上的喜鹊，只顾收集各种闪亮的东西，堆满自己的巢穴。

It's like that intellectual magpie that just collects lots of shiny things and puts it in the nest.

而且有时候这简直就像，你叫它什么来着？

And it's almost like sometimes it's like a what do you call it?

像是一种解离的特质。

Like a dissociation trait.

你这么做是因为这比面对现实生活要容易得多。

Like, you're you're doing this because it's more of it's it's easier than dealing with real life.

比起坐下来面对你的问题和犯过的错误，好好反思到底发生了什么，待在图书馆里反而更有趣。

It's more fun to be in the library than to actually sit with your problems and the mistakes you've made and, like, sit and actually kind of, like, reflect on, you know, what's actually happened to you.

你可以直接躲进书房，或者看个纪录片，让自己从这些事中抽离出来。

You can just retreat to the to the study or, you know, put on a documentary and and be transported away from things.

是的。

Yeah.

或者你继续说。

Or go ahead.

哦，我刚想说，这其实也回到了半人马的那个说法，你知道的，一半是人，一半是动物。

Oh, I was just gonna say, that kinda goes back to the whole centaur thing too, you know, being half humanity, half animal.

我们几乎很容易就沉浸在幻想中，脱离现实，成为书虫或纪录片迷。

We can almost, you know, easily get our heads in the clouds or out of reality and just learning and bookworms or documentary worms.

但我觉得，只要我们意识到这一点，就能保持脚踏实地，因为我们身上也有动物的一面，可以回到现实，然后在学习和做体力活动之间来回切换。

And, but I feel like we are able to be grounded if we're aware of it because we do have that animal side to us, where we can come back to reality, and then we can switch back and forth between, you know, learning and doing physical things.

另外，我还想提一点，那就是我们热爱学习。

And, another thing I just wanted to touch on too, just, you know, we love learning.

我们喜欢不断读书，了解一切，双子座也是如此。

We love always reading books and knowing everything, which Gemini also does.

你说其他很多星座也有这种特质，但我觉得射手座的不同之处在于，我们喜欢当老师。

You said a lot of other signs are like this too, but I think the difference with Sagittarius and what gives us kinda like that superiority feeling is we like to be the teacher.

我们学习不仅仅是为了自己，更是为了传递这些思想。

We're not just like learning for our own selves, but it's to be the conveyor of these ideas.

我们希望向别人宣扬这些观点。

Like, we want to preach these things to people.

我们希望去实践这些理念，而不仅仅是为了好玩。

We want to, like, implement these rather than just like, oh, it's just for fun.

而且说它是纯粹为了乐趣也没错，但做这件事也是为了帮助别人，同时能向大家展示我们确实懂这些东西。

And, like, it is kinda just for fun, but it's also to help others and be able to say that we know these things.

而如果我们真的遇到了不懂的事，反而会觉得很兴奋。

And when we don't actually know something, it can be exciting.

这是全新的事物，我觉得那就是我们一直在追寻的动力源泉。

Like, it is something new, and I feel like that's the the fuel that we're always looking for.

就像汽油能让火烧得越来越旺，要是汽油耗光了，你还怎么继续往前？

Like like gasoline keeps the fire roaring, and if you run out of gasoline, how are you gonna keep going?

所以大致就是这样，偶尔你会发现一件自己完全不懂的事，而那恰恰是动力的来源。

So it's kinda like that every once in a while you find something that you don't know, that's the fuel.

那相当于给我们再加了一桶油。

That's more gasoline.

我觉得对我们来说，全然不知情反而是件好事。

I feel like that is beneficial to us to not know at all.

对。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

总是需要或渴望探索新的领域，或者类似的东西。

Always needing or wanting new horizons to explore or something like that.

这让我想到学者或学术人士，他们懂十种语言，却不会换汽车轮胎，这就像哲学、学术、宗教或其他关于宇宙宏观层面的学习，比如爱因斯坦提出相对论之类的，但并不一定总是涉及像换轮胎这样具体的实用知识。

That also gives me the image of the scholar or the academic that knows 10 different languages but doesn't know how to change a tire on a car or something It's like philosophical or academic or religious or other big picture learning of big picture things in the universe, like Einstein coming up with the theory of relativity or what have you, but it not being necessarily always just small term practical type knowledge like how to change a tire or something like that.

是的。

Yeah.

你能把这真正应用到生活中吗，还是仅仅只是一个想法？

Like can you actually apply this to your life or is it just an idea?

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

没错。

Yep.

是的。

Yep.

心不在焉的教授确实是射手座的典型代表。

The absent minded professor the absent minded professor is definitely like a Sagittarius archetype for sure.

是的。

Yep.

完全正确。

Totally.

这让我想起了大卫·平格里，他是一位著名的古典学者，也是科学史和占星术史的专家。

And that actually just reminded me of, David Pingree who's a famous classic scholar and scholar on the history of science and history of astrology.

我没有他的出生时间，但我知道他的金星和水星也位于射手座，而木星、火星和海王星则位于天秤座的南交点。

And I don't have a birth time for him, but I do know that he had Venus and Mercury in the sign of Sagittarius as well as Jupiter and Mars and Neptune in the south node in the sign of Virgo.

他是一位通晓多种语言的人，这意味着他拥有非凡的语言能力，会大约二十种语言。

And he like this, he was a polyglot which means that he just had this ability with languages and he knew like 20 different languages.

他懂所有现代欧洲语言，能阅读法语、西班牙语、德语以及其他语言。

Like he knew every modern European language, he could read like French and Spanish and German and everything else.

但他还精通所有这些古代语言，比如古希腊语、阿拉伯语、阿卡德语、拉丁语、中古波斯语等等。

But then he also knew all of these ancient languages like ancient Greek and Arabic and Akkadian and Latin and Middle Persian and everything else.

他还懂梵语。

He also knew Sanskrit.

在他的博士论文中，他写了一本名为《雅瓦纳贾塔卡》的书，这是一部早期的梵语占星文本，他在论文中论证说，这部文本原本是一部希腊占星文本，后来被翻译成了梵语。

In his PhD dissertation, he did this book called the Yavanajataka which was like an early Sanskrit text on astrology where he argued in his dissertation that this text was originally a Greek astrological text that had been translated into Sanskrit.

因此，在他的博士论文中，他整理并重建了《雅瓦纳贾塔卡》的梵语原始文本，并将其翻译成英文。

And so for his PhD dissertation, he made a critical edition of reconstructing the original text of the Avanajataka in Sanskrit, translated that into English.

但此外，他还撰写了第二卷，作为对这部文本的评注，他逐一引用了所能找到的所有古代西方和印度作者的原文，以证明这些文本中的学说彼此相似或有关联。

But then also, he wrote a second volume that was a commentary on that where he went through and he quoted every ancient Western author as well as Indian author that he could in their original language, in order to demonstrate how the doctrines in these texts were similar or were connected.

但如果你拿起第二卷阅读他的评注，你会发现他用英文写作时，会直接引用阿拉伯语的中世纪占星家，并把原文用阿拉伯语写出来。

But if you pick up the second volume and read his commentary, he'll be writing in English and then he'll quote medieval astrologer in Arabic and he'll write it out in Arabic.

所以你必须懂阿拉伯语才能读懂那段内容，接着他又会引用拉丁语的作者，或梵语的作者，不断切换各种语言，因为他掌握所有这些语言，这源于他那种宏大的整体视角。

So it's like you have to know Arabic to read that passage and then he'll quote another author in Latin or he'll quote another author in Sanskrit or he just keeps going through different languages because he knows like all of these languages due to that that big picture sort of thing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

太惊人了。

It's amazing.

多么了不起的人啊。

Like what an impressive impressive man.

但接着，是的，人们不禁会想，他会不会换汽车轮胎之类的事。

But then, yeah, one wonders, like, could he change a tire on his car and things like that.

但就是这样。

But that that's it.

我的意思是，这确实是一种惊人的天赋。

I mean, it's it's a amazing talent.

很多射手座的人，如果你坐下来和他们聊天，他们会透露出自己在某个热衷的领域拥有广博的知识。

And a lot of Sagittariuses, if you sit down and talk with them, they will divulge that they have this vast learning on something that they're passionate about.

但接着，是的，你可能会疑惑，这种能力有没有实际的应用？

But then, yeah, there is that maybe you wonder, like, is there a practical application to this?

比如，除了在学术背景下令人着迷之外，普通大众并不会对这些深奥的东西感兴趣，尽管对这个领域的人来说，它们绝对令人着迷，而且对他们来说是一份巨大的礼物。

Like, apart from being fascinating in an academic context, like, you know, the every the layperson is not going to be interested in these esoteric things even though they're, like, absolutely fascinating to people in that field and, like, a great gift to people in that field.

这让我想到了亚历山大图书馆最初的样子，它原本是一个由国家资助的学术机构，学者们会去那里居住，专心在图书馆里进行卓越的学术研究。

It makes me think of the the Library of Alexandria originally, how it was actually supposed to be sort of like a scholarly institute that was funded by the state and there would be these scholars that would go and live there and just like work in the library and do this amazing scholarship.

但那时，他们的基本生活需求也会得到保障，比如可以免费吃饭，然后回去继续从事学术工作，这样他们就不必为生活琐事操心，大部分时间都能专注于学术追求。

But then, they would have their basic necessities like kind of paid for where, they would go and be able to eat food for free and then just go back to work on their scholarly stuff so that they didn't have to deal with the basic necessities of life and could focus on these scholarly pursuits most of the time.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这让我也想到了某些宗教和僧侣。

That reminds me too of certain religions and monks, for example.

他们某种程度上完全脱离了文明与现实，专注于更高层次的事物，潜心研究，而不必担心食物或如何更换轮胎之类的问题。

They totally leave civilization and reality in a way, to focus on these higher things and to work within rather than worrying about, like, food and how am I gonna change this tire?

他们甚至根本不必操心这些。

They don't even have to worry about that.

所以我认为这确实与射手座也有联系。

So I think that definitely ties in with Sag as well.

保持平衡是很重要的。

It is important to have a balance.

当然。

For sure.

而且事情可能会失去平衡。

And things can become unbalanced.

这让我想起，我们之前谈过宗教和皈依者的热情，但政治中也会出现这种情况。

It reminded me, we've talked about religion and the passion of the convert, but that also comes up for politics.

有时你会看到那些有强烈诱惑星象配置的人，一旦投身某种新的政治理念，就会变得非常坚定，甚至成为狂热的倡导者，有时甚至过火。

And sometimes you'll see people that have heavy seductorist placements get into a new political thing and then become very adamant or very much of an advocate about that sometimes to an extreme or sometimes going over the top.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

这并不总是关乎哲学或精神层面的事情。

It's not necessarily always philosophical things or spiritual things.

也可能是政治，或者有些人会对科学产生浓厚兴趣。

It can also be politics or sometimes people get really interested in science.

这是另一个射手座的特质，但总是某种比较高尚的东西，我想这可能是合适的说法。

It's another Sagittarius quality, but it's always something that's kind of high minded, I guess, is maybe that's the right word.

就像是一种崇高的议题。

Like, it's a lofty kind of topic.

所以政治虽然对我们生活有非常实际和真实的影响，但也有一种理论性、理想主义的层面。

So politics is while it does have a very practical and real effect on our lives, there's also kind of like a theoretical, like idealistic sort of side to politics.

我们在谈论的是宏大的理念，比如什么是正确的生活方式，或者什么是正确的治理方式，你知道的。

We're talking about like big ideas, like what's the right way to live or what's the right way to govern, you know.

这些都是宏观层面的东西。

These are these are sort of big picture things.

是的。

Yeah.

在过去几年里，我才开始明白信仰、宗教和政治是如何紧密交织在一起的。

I've only started to understand in the past few years how intertwined belief and religion and politics are.

我们总是认为自己的政治观点是经过深思熟虑的逻辑产物，比如我持有某种政治信念是因为X推理之类的。

We always think about our politics so much as these well thought out logical things of I have this political belief because of x deduction or whatever.

实际来说，我之所以会认同某个观点，背后都是这类逻辑支撑，诸如此类的原因。

This is practically speaking why I think this is right or what have you.

但我们往往没意识到，自己的这些信念有时没那么理性；在政治立场上，我们选择某一方向的原因，比我们自己以为的更依赖信仰，从这点来看，它和宗教理念的相似程度其实超出了我们的想象。

But oftentimes we don't realize that our beliefs are a little bit less rational sometimes and the reason why we go in certain directions is a little bit more belief based than we might think in terms of our politics and is is a bit more similar in that way to sometimes like religious things than we might think.

对。

Yeah.

再说说政治这个话题吧——毕竟我们之前聊了很多宗教相关的内容，比如担任祭司、女祭司这类身份的话题。

And bringing up politics because we've talked a lot about religion and, you know, being the priest or the priestess, that kind of thing.

但我觉得射手座的人尤其会被那些对大多数人来说很敏感的话题所吸引，比如政治、宗教、科学，所有这类话题都是如此。

But I feel like Sagittarius is especially drawn to topics that are touchy subjects to the majority of people, politics, religion, science, all of that stuff.

而且我觉得这是火象星座的特质。

And I think that's a fire quality.

我们会有点喜欢制造一些小波澜。

We like causing disruption a little bit.

我们不希望一切都过得太安稳——当然是除了我们自己的处境之外，因为我们坚信自己是对的。

We don't want it to be so comfortable except for ourselves because we're right.

我们想要舒适。

We wanna be comfortable.

但，是的，我注意到了这一点。

But, yeah, that's something I've noticed.

我们就是喜欢有争议的话题。

We just love controversial issues.

是的。

Yeah.

那些在晚宴上让人不舒服的话题，正是射手座最喜欢的话题。

Topics that, like, upset people at a dinner party is, like, Sagittarius' favorite thing.

提出来吧。

Bring it up.

是的。

Yeah.

我们来聊聊历史上那些极其糟糕的艰难事件吧，周围的人都会惊呼：天哪。

Let's talk about this really tough thing that happened in history that's, like, awful, and everyone's around everyone around you is like, oh my god.

我们只是想进行一场愉快的对话。

We're just trying to have a nice conversation.

是的。

Yeah.

她又开始谈神秘学了，我就想，让我跟你说说。

Here she goes talking about the occult again, and I'm just like, let me tell you.

我今天还带了我的撒旦圣经，或者说是些非常奇怪的东西。

And I brought my satanic bible today or, you know, like, just very weird things.

嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

这里有个观点其实挺有趣的，那种带点叛逆感的东西——没错，射手座可能就是那个爱玩叛逆的人。

Here here's the well, there's a point there that's actually really that's funny, the edgy sort of thing of Yeah, the Sagittarius could be the person that's edgy.

我记得今年早些时候我做过一期节目，邀请了几位对占星持怀疑态度的人，我记得标题大概是《如何与非占星爱好者或占星怀疑者谈论占星》。

I remember I did an episode earlier this year with a couple of astrology skeptics and I think the title was like how to talk about astrology to non astrologers or to skeptics of astrology.

其中一位男士提到他属于撒旦教会，但他指的是他相信科学，是个无神论者，还有其他类似的观点。

One of the guys did mention that he was in the Church of Satan, but what he meant by that was he believed in science and he was an atheist and other things like that.

他并不真的相信基督教意义上的撒旦，只是说这话是为了显得叛逆，某种程度上是在调侃基督徒。

He didn't actually believe in the Christian idea of Satan, but it was just kind of a thing that he said to be edgy to troll sort of Christians in a way.

我确实能理解这种感觉。

And I definitely relate to that.

有时候你就是想当个酷哥，或者就是想让人感到不舒服。

Sometimes you just want to be the badass or you want to just make people uncomfortable.

这太有趣了，因为这和白羊座非常相似——白羊座想当酷哥，方式是开快车、超速违章；而射手座则通过打破道德或哲学准则来显得叛逆。

That's so funny because that's so similar to Aries where Aries wants to be a badass but driving fast and breaking the speed limit rules, but Sagittarius wants to be edgy by breaking the moral philosophical rules or something like that.

结构。

Structures.

我们紧挨着摩羯座，也就是说，他们负责维护结构，而我们则在某种程度上打破这些结构。

And we're right next to Capricorn, so it's like I mean, they deal with structures and we're kind of disrupting them.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

我喜欢这个说法。

I like that.

我想起一个政治人物，卡米尔提到过，就是约翰·斯图尔特，他长期担任喜剧中心频道《每日秀》的主持人，原本只是个喜剧演员，但对政治颇感兴趣。

Well, one of the politics people that comes to mind, that Camille mentioned was John Stewart who was the the host of The Daily Show on Comedy Central for many years and fell into this role where he was just a comedian, but he was a comedian that had some interest in politics.

后来他成了《每日秀》的第二任主持人，不知怎的在美国成了一个政治人物，因为他经常对政客进行评论和讽刺——比如在布什执政时期，他会用幽默的方式指出他们言论中的虚伪之处。

Then he ended up being the second host of The Daily Show and ended up somehow in The US becoming this political figure basically because he would do commentary and what's the word when you're kind of making fun of something, satire of politicians which during, for example, the Bush administration, they would sometimes just point out the hypocrisy in a funny context to some of the stuff that they would say.

是的，这是个很好的例子，因为他把政治和幽默喜剧融合在了一起。

Yeah, so that's a really good example because it's somebody blending both politics as well as humor comedy.

可惜我们不知道他的确切出生时间。

And we don't have a birth time for him unfortunately.

有人问过他，帕特里克·沃森和我几年前写过一篇叫《政治占星学博客》的文章，当时《每日秀》开场片段里，有个观众问他出生时间，他只是说：‘我不知道。’

Somebody asked him, Patrick Watson and I actually wrote a blog called The Political Astrology Blog years ago and there was this clip once at the beginning of The Daily Show where somebody in the audience asked him his birth time and he was just like, I have no idea.

他对此置之不理，但那是最后一次提及了。

And he kind of blew off the comment, but that was last shot at it.

希望其他人能找出来。

Hopefully, somebody else will find it out

总有一天。

someday.

感谢任何尝试过的人。

I appreciate whoever tried.

是的。

Yeah.

向任何尝试过的人致敬。

Kudos to whoever gave it a shot.

我很感激。

I appreciate that.

所以对于听音频的听众来说，约翰·斯图尔特的太阳、水星，可能还有月亮都位于射手座。

So for the audio listeners, John Stewart has the Sun, Mercury, and possibly the Moon in Sagittarius.

在这张正午星盘中，月亮位于22度，因此他基本上是在射手座的新月之后不久出生的，这个可能性很大。

The Moon here in this noon chart is at 22, so it's a pretty good chance that he was born just after a new Moon in Sagittarius basically.

哇。

Wow.

这真是很多射手座的特质。

That's a lot of Sag.

是的。

Yeah.

你可以从他的性格中看出来，这种幽默感与他对政治的坚定立场相结合。

You can see that in his personality and that sort of combination of humor, but also, like, he he definitely had his beliefs about politics.

比如，他对自己的政治立场非常坚定。

Like, was pretty firm, like, about where he landed.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他在这档节目中的很多工作都是通过幽默来传达并传播他对当时政治的看法。

And, a lot of his work on that show was using humor to convey and sort of spread, if you like, his his his perspective on the politics of the day.

是的。

Yeah.

那是一个极具影响力的作品。

And it was a hugely influential show.

我的意思是，我看了这个节目，而我当时在澳大利亚。

Mean, I I I watched it and I was in Australia.

这说明了这个节目的影响力有多大。

That shows you the reach of the show.

虽然节目讲的是美国政治，但正因为它的幽默，以及美国那种霸权地位——那边发生的事也会对我们这里产生影响。

Like, it's all about American politics, but just because of the humor and also just the fact that America has that sort of hegemony that what happens over there affects us too over here.

所以我们也会关注美国的政治。

So we follow your we follow politics in America as well.

实际上，我多年以来都很喜欢看他主持的这个节目。

So I enjoyed watching the show when he was hosting, for many years actually.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这很有趣。

And it's interesting.

他最近回来了，又在为苹果公司之类的地方做节目，这挺有意思的，因为我注意到他星盘中有土星在水瓶座。

He's come back recently and he's like doing a show again for like Apple or something like that, which is kind of interesting because I noticed he has Saturn in Aquarius.

这意味着从2020年开始的过去三年里，他正在完成第二次土星回归，而他正是在这段时间重新开始主持这类节目，此前他在2015年或2016年左右离开了《每日秀》。这让我想起了康南·奥布莱恩，我最近注意到他也做了同样的事——过去几年里完成了他的土星回归，并且停止了每晚主持电视喜剧节目。

That means he's been completing his second Saturn return over the course of the past three years since 2020 as he's come back to hosting shows like that again after quitting The Daily Show back in 2015, 2016 or something like that, which reminds me of actually Conan O'Brien who I'd noted recently has done the same thing where he's completed his Saturn return over the past few years and he stopped hosting a comedy show on television every night.

现在他转做播客，并且在这个领域取得了巨大成功，而三十年前，在他第一次土星回归时，他首次成为一档深夜节目的主持人。

And now he's switched to doing a podcast and has become super successful in that after a thirty year cycle where during his first Saturn return, that was when he first became the host of a a late

节目。

show.

很有趣。

Fascinating.

是的。

Yeah.

我想再稍微提一下喜剧这件事，因为我觉得这是一种非常有力的工具，可以帮助我们传达那些敏感的想法和信念。

And I do just wanna kinda touch on the comedy thing again, because I feel like that is a very powerful tool that we use, to like, convey our touchy ideas and beliefs.

因为你看现在几乎所有的喜剧，有些在电视上播出的，我都会想：这怎么能在电视上播呢？

Because you look at almost any comedy that's out there, some of it that's on TV today, I'm like, this is how is this on TV?

现在说这些话怎么就没事了？

How is this okay to be said right now?

但因为这是个喜剧小品，所以就被接受了。

But because it's a comedy skit, it's acceptable.

而射手座她就用这种方式，保持那种你懂的，友好的形象。

And Sag, she uses that as a tool, to remain that, like, you know, friendly.

我们喜欢和别人相处融洽。

We like to get along with people.

我们确实喜欢待在群体中，非常社交。

We do like being with the you know, in a community and very social.

所以我们不想太过打扰别人，但还是觉得有必要表达自己的观点。

So we don't wanna be, like, you know, disrupting too much, but we do feel the need to get our opinions out there.

我觉得很多喜剧演员都是通过喜剧来做到这一点的。

And I feel like a lot of comedians do so by using comedy.

确实是。

It's

没那么尖锐。

less less harsh.

这是一个很好的观点，喜剧已经成为传达某些观点的手段，有时人们也用它来表达政治或社会活动性的立场。

That's a good point that it's become like a means for conveying certain things or sometimes people use it for more political or activist takes on things through comedy.

但确实，喜剧本身就有其真正的价值。

But yeah, there's a real value just in and of itself of comedy in and of itself.

近年来一个有趣的现象是，许多喜剧演员似乎都认同这样一个基本观点：单口喜剧演员希望拥有谈论任何话题、尝试对任何事情开玩笑的自由。

And one of the interesting things recently over the past few years is so many of the comedians seem to almost all agree on this fundamental thing, the stand up comedians where they want to have the freedom to talk about anything or to attempt to make jokes about anything.

其中一些人开始感到压力，或对某些限制感到不安，比如‘你不能说这个’或‘这个话题是禁区’之类的，至于对错，我本人并不做价值判断。

And some of them are getting kind of like pushing back or getting kind of nervous about some of the constraints about saying, No, you can't say that or that topic is off limits or what have rightly or wrongly, I'm not really making a value judgment myself.

这只是我过去几年观察到的现象，因为我看了很多不同的喜剧播客，发现很多喜剧演员，或者说大多数人都持有这样的观点：他们应该拥有尝试一切、做一切、触及任何领域的自由。

It's just something I've been observing over the past several years because I watch a lot of different comedy podcasts and it's interesting seeing that many of them seem to or a large majority seem to share view that they should have the freedom to just try anything and do anything and go anywhere.

喜剧本身就是这样，这几乎是它的核心要求之一。

That comedy itself is like that that's one of its core requirements almost.

当这种自由开始受到限制或削弱时，他们都变得非常激烈，甚至像在反抗一样。

And they all start getting very almost sort of like militant or pushing back when that starts getting curtailed or limited in some ways.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这其实又回到了我们所关联的游牧旅行者形象。

And that's like, you know, comes back to the nomadic traveler that we associate with too.

我们不希望有任何限制，无论是身体上的、心理上的，还是基于观点的。

It's like, we don't want restriction, whether it be, like, physical or mental or opinion based.

我们不希望在任何方面受到限制。

Like, we don't want restrictions in any sense.

所以喜剧就是其中之一，我们觉得可以自由探索，而且这是被接受的。

So comedy is one of those things that, like, we feel we can free roam and it's acceptable.

是的。

Yeah.

射手座热爱自由。

Sagittarius loves freedom.

有趣的是，由木星主宰的两个星座都是变动星座，因此这种开放性和灵活性是与生俱来的。

And it's interesting that both the Jupiter ruled signs are mutable signs, and so there's that, you know, that openness and that flexibility is sort of built in.

木星喜欢在一个可以自由做自己想做的事的空间里。

Jupiter likes to be in a space where it's free to do what it wants.

它不喜欢被束缚。

It doesn't like to be locked in.

它不喜欢受到限制。

It doesn't like to be restricted.

因为木星的一个象征意义就是喜剧。

And because Jupiter, you know, one of the significations is comedy.

你可以从中看到这一点。

You can see that coming through.

比如，受到约束的喜剧就像是——是的。

Like, comedy that is restrained is like yeah.

就像，是的。

Like, yeah.

克里斯，你说得对，我这里并不是在做价值判断，但确实有一种感觉，喜剧就像解开了缰绳，某种意义上更真实、更坦诚。

To your point, Chris, like, I'm not making a value judgment here, but there is something like about the the like the comedy as to have like a like a I don't know, like the reins taken off or something like that to be authentic or honest in some ways.

话虽如此，你可以运用喜剧。

That being said, like, you can use you can use comedy.

就像我们说过的，可以用来达到政治目的，表达你的观点。

Like we said for political ends, you can and to project your point of view.

而这可能走向两个方向，比如传播一种肯定的、鼓舞人心的、有帮助的、积极的观点。

And that can go either way, like in terms of like spreading a point of view that's like affirming and, and like uplifting and like helpful or like, you know, positive.

你也可以用它来传播与之相反的东西，比如贬低、嘲讽或讥笑某人。

You can also use it to spread, you know, you know, something that contrast with that, like something that is like damning or mocking or deriding someone.

所以它可能走向任何一方。

So it can go either way.

这并不一定总是好事。

There's no it's not necessarily like always a good thing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但只是在思考这一点，自由和喜剧在某种程度上是相互交织的。

But just to thinking about that, how freedom and comedy kind of are intertwined in a way.

那里存在着一种关系。

There's a there's a relationship there.

当然。

Definitely.

是的，这对我来说很有道理，它确实回到了木星的乐观主义和幽默感，以及笑话、笑声和其他类似事物的重要性，但自由也是一个核心组成部分。

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me and it really does go back to both the optimism of Jupiter and the joviality and that jokes and laughter and other things like that are so important, but also freedom as a core component.

所以我认为，射手座在某种程度上确实很适合作为单口喜剧演员。

So I think definitely Sagittarius as the stand up comedian in some ways is a really good fit, I think.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

All right.

我还想从哪里继续谈这个呢？

Where else did I want to go with that?

在我们离开这个话题之前，我想快速提一下，你提到过科学家有时会变得教条化。

I did want to mention really quickly before we move on from that area that you'd mentioned like the scientist and sometimes how that can become dogmatic.

卡米尔在名人星盘的提纲中举了一个有趣的例子，就是比尔·奈，虽然我们没有他的准确出生时间，但他很可能有水星落在射手座。

And one of the funny examples of that that Camille put in the outline for celebrity charts was Bill Nye, who we don't have a birth time for again, but he has probably Mercury in Sagittarius.

它位于射手座零度四十九分。

It's at zero degrees, forty nine minutes of Sagittarius.

太阳、北交点和金星都落在射手座。

The Sun, the North Node, and Venus all in Sagittarius.

很多人小时候都看过他的节目，他主持的儿童科普节目《比尔·奈科学小子》教孩子们科学知识，激发他们对科学的兴趣，这非常棒，也很酷。

And a lot of people grew up watching him because he did a children's program called Bill Nye, the Science Guy, where he was teaching kids science and getting them interested in science and things like that which was really good and really cool.

不过，近年来他也对非科学领域持相当怀疑的态度。

He also, though more recently, is also kind of skeptical about non scientific subjects.

占星术经常成为他批评或坚决拒绝的对象，在某些情况下，他以相当教条的方式对待它。

Astrology has been a frequent sort of source of criticism or thing that he's focused on rejecting in kind of more adamant or sort of like dogmatic terms in some instances.

是的。

Yeah.

射手座通常要么非常有灵感，很多时候他们要么非常热衷于宗教、灵性和神秘主题，要么就极其教条地反对它们。

Sagittarius is either like very inspired I often often the case is that they're either really into religion and spirituality and esoteric topics or they're sort of really dogmatically against them.

他们会在其中一个立场上采取坚定或强烈的立场。

They take a firm or strong stance one way or the other.

我似乎发现，很少有射手座对这些话题没有任何强烈感受。

I I I seem to find I don't find too many Sagittariuses that are like have no strong feelings about these topics.

他们通常都有一个明确的立场，并且一定会对此发表意见。

They usually have a have a position and they're going to to, you know, have something to say about it.

但正如你所说，我认为这其中确实存在一种信念的成分。

But it's to your point, I think there is a component of belief.

我想在这里小心一点，因为科学的某些方面是建立在实验基础上的，像电力这样的东西真实存在于世界上，很难否认，它们的存在不是靠信仰来决定的。

And I wanna be careful here because like there are some aspects of science that are, you know, grounded in just like experimentation and and it's so hard to dispute, when things like electricity are things that it's that real when they're out there in the world and you can't sort of It's not a matter of belief whether they exist or not.

然而，科学中有一部分，或者说是与科学相关的内容，那就是科学哲学，或者我们如何解读科学对我们的意义。

However, there is a component to science or it's sort of adjacent to science which is like sort of the philosophy of science or how we interpret what science means for us.

而在这部分，我们可能会陷入教条主义的领域。

And there we can get into territory where it can be a dogmatism.

这就是所谓的‘科学主义’，即认为科学是唯一有用的途径，用以确认真理，而所有其他探索世界、从中获取意义的方式都是无用的。

This is the term scientism, which is this belief that science is the only you know, useful means for ascertaining truth and that all other, you know, approaches to, you know, contemplating the world and sort of deriving meaning from it are not helpful.

在这种哲学中，科学是唯一的路径。

Science is the only path in this kind of philosophy.

有些人只是认为，这只是一个事实。

And some people just think some people think that that's just a fact.

但你知道，还有其他方式可以认识世界并从中获得意义。

Whereas, like, you know, there are other ways of ascertaining and getting meaning from the world.

比如，诗歌、艺术、灵性之类的东西。

Like for example, like, you know, poetry or art or spirituality and things like that.

也就是说，对科学过于热衷——也许‘过于热衷’这个词不太准确，但把科学从对事实的客观研究转变为一种信仰体系，是有这种倾向的。

Like there's So there's a there's a way that becoming too interested in science or not maybe too interested is the wrong term, but like turning science from an objective study of fact into like a belief system.

在那里，你可能会进入一种类似信仰的领域。

There you can get into that territory where you're it's like a it's a matter of faith.

我认为，有时这种射手座的灵感会让你遇到非常有激情的无神论者，比如一个极其热忱的无神论者或一个非常坚定的怀疑论者。

And I think that's where sometimes that Sagittarius inspiration can you know, you can have, like, a very inspired atheist, for example, you know, a very, like, passionate atheist or a very passionate skeptic.

从某种意义上说，这可以被视为一种信仰体系。

That's in some ways you could argue like a belief system.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

For sure.

因为这关乎于为世界赋予意义，每个人都试图理解宏观问题，理解什么是真实的，以及什么真正发生在我们的生活中并赋予它意义。

Because it just has to do with making meaning out of the world and everybody trying to understand the big picture issue and understand what is real and what's actually happening in our lives that gives meaning to it.

我认为，有时那些将科学主义当作信仰体系的人会忘记，科学结论是暂时的，只是基于我们目前所知，这是世界运作的最佳解释。

And I think sometimes people that go that route of scientism as a belief system sometimes forget that scientific conclusions are provisional and it's like to the best of our knowledge, this is how the world works currently.

但有时会忘记，这并不是故事的终点，未来我们可能会发现其他可能修正这些观点的新信息。

But sometimes forget that that's not the end of the story or that we're not going to find out other things that might revise that at some point in the future.

因为人们有时很容易觉得已经找到了某件事的真相，这又回到了政治、宗教和科学的问题上——都是对真理和意义的追寻。

Because it's sometimes tempting to feel like you've found the truth about something and that goes back to the politics thing, goes back to religion, that goes back to science, is the search for the truth and the search for meaning.

而一旦你觉得自己找到了真相，这几乎就像一种宗教体验：你仿佛看透了一切，看清了宇宙的全貌，突然明白了自己为何在此、生命的意义何在，于是你渴望与他人分享，希望他们也能获得你曾体验过的那种积极感受，我想这往往就是根源所在。

And sometimes once you feel like you found the truth, it's almost like a religious experience, like whatever that truth is where you've seen everything, you've seen the big picture, you've seen how the universe works, and suddenly you know what you're doing here and what the meaning is and everything else, and you want to share that with other people and you want to impart that onto other people so that they can have that same positive experience that you felt, I think is often where that comes from.

全部

All

对。

right.

顺便提一下，这让我想起了其他一些我恰好注意到有射手座星盘配置的人。

And then just in passing, that was making me pull up some other charts of others that I happen to notice that have Sagittarius placements.

比如尼尔·德葛拉司·泰森，他是一位著名的科学倡导者，有时对某些事情也显得有点教条，他的土星位于射手座。

So Neil deGrasse Tyson, for example, who's a famous science advocate and also can sometimes be a little dogmatic about things has Saturn in Sagittarius.

而他的前任，有趣的是，卡尔·萨根的月亮位于夜盘中射手座21度。

And then his predecessor, really interestingly actually, Carl Sagan had the Moon at 21 degrees of Sagittarius in a night chart.

他出生在日落后不久。

He was born just after sunset.

有趣的是，关于度数，尼尔·德葛拉司·泰森的土星位于射手座20度，而就在过去十年，他制作了《宇宙》电视系列的第二版，这被视为对卡尔·萨根在1980年代制作的、极具影响力的科学教育系列的续作或跟进。

So actually interesting in terms of the degrees because Neil deGrasse Tyson has Saturn at 20 degrees of Sagittarius and he famously did like a second version of the cosmos TV series just in the past decade, which was supposed to be like a follow-up or almost like a sequel to the series that Carl Sagan did that was so famous on science education in like the 1980s.

他似乎在试图用土星的能量重新巩固那些理想，或许

He's like almost trying to reground those ideals maybe a little bit with being Saturn or

是的，为了

Yeah, for

当然。

sure.

对。

Yeah.

要有权威性的观点，并且真正把它具体化。

A Have an authoritative take and like sort of, yeah, really make it concrete.

嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯。

Mhmm.

感谢本集的赞助商——Ephemeris.co的出生星盘项链。

Shout out to our sponsor for this episode which is the Ephemeris dot co birth chart necklace.

这是一款占星吊坠或项链，你可以佩戴在脖子上，展示你个人真实的出生星盘，包括上升星座和所有行星的位置。

So this is an astrological pendant or necklace that you can wear around your neck that shows a custom depiction of your actual birth chart with your Ascendant and all of the planetary placements in it.

你只需要访问他们的网站 Ephemeris.co，输入你的出生信息，它就会为你定制制作一条带有你出生星盘的项链。

So all you have to do is go to their website which is ephemeris.co and enter in your birth information and it will print a custom made necklace with your birth chart on it.

你可以选择自己喜欢的黄道带或宫位系统，甚至可以在项链背面添加自定义刻字。

So you can customize it by choosing the zodiac or the house system that you prefer and you can even put a custom engraving on the back of the necklace.

所有产品都是独一无二的，由美国手工制作，具有现代简约风格，男女皆宜，搭配任何服装都很合适。

So all pieces are unique and are handmade in The United States and it has this nice modern look that is gender neutral and looks good with any outfit.

他们已经售出了超过17,000件，正迅速成为占星圈内非常受欢迎的小饰品。

So they've sold over 17,000 orders, it's so quickly becoming a pretty popular little piece in the astrological community.

使用促销码 ASTROLOGY PODCAST 可享受10%的折扣。

And you can get a 10% discount with the promo code ASTROLOGY PODCAST.

所以请前往 ephemeris.co 了解更多信息。

So find out more information about it at ephemeris.co.

接下来，我想进入本集的第二部分，我们将更深入地对比射手座与其他星座。

So I want to transition into the second part of this episode where we start really doing more to contrast Sagittarius with some of the other signs of the zodiac.

我们已经和天蝎座和摩羯座做了一些对比，但我想把这个对比扩展到其他一些星座。

And we've done a little bit of that already with Scorpio and Capricorn, but I want to extend that to some of the other signs.

我知道，艾什莉，你已经开始探讨双子座和水星的对比了，水星是射手座的对冲星座，我觉得这可能是个不错的起点。

I know Ashley that you've started to get into some of the contrast with Gemini and with Mercury, is the sign that's opposite to Sagittarius, I think that might be a good starting point.

正如我们所说，射手座由木星守护，是 Mutable（变动）星座，属火，且为阳性或日间星座。

Sagittarius, as we said, is ruled by Jupiter, it's mutable, fire, and masculine or diurnal.

而双子座由水星守护，是风象星座，在古典元素中属于寒冷而非炎热，因此与射手座形成对立。

And that's opposite to Gemini which is ruled by Mercury is an air sign which is in the stoic elements is cold rather than hot and that's why it's opposite to Sagittarius.

它同样是变动星座，也是阳性或日间星座。

It's also a mutable sign and it's also masculine or diurnal.

这两个星座之间一个显著的对比是：双子座的水星是体积最小的行星，而射手座的守护星木星则是最大的行星。

So one of the big contrasts between two signs is we have Mercury in Gemini which is like the smallest planet versus Jupiter ruling Sagittarius which is the largest planet.

这就形成了小事物与大事物的鲜明对比，比如琐碎的对话或交谈，与射手座所关注的宏大议题——信仰、真理、宗教、政治等——形成对照。

And you get this real contrast of small things versus big things or like small picture things like conversation or talking versus big picture things in Sagittarius as we've been talking about belief, truth, religion, politics, and other things like that.

卡米勒列出了这两者之间的一些对比，作为起点来看会很有帮助。

Camille did a list of comparisons between these two that might be a good thing to look at in contrast as a starting point.

以下是具体的对比。

So here's the contrast.

她说，双子座代表熟悉的事物，而射手座代表陌生的事物。

She says, Gemini is that which is familiar versus Sagittarius which is that which is foreign.

双子座是事实，而射手座是信仰。

Gemini is facts while Sagittarius is faith.

双子座是想法，而射手座是信念。

Gemini is thoughts versus Sagittarius is beliefs.

双子座是闲聊，而射手座是宏论。

Gemini is small talk versus Sag which is big talk.

双子座的知识来自书本，而射手座的知识来自经验。

Gemini is knowledge from books versus Sagittarius knowledge from experience.