天蝎座在占星学中的含义与特质

我的意思是，他根本无法完全满足于做一个独身的天主教神父，最终也没有停留在那种状态。

I mean, he he couldn't really be fully satisfied with being a celibate Catholic priest and he didn't end up in state one.

这让我也想到了甘地。

Makes me also think of Gandhi.

甘地是天蝎座上升，他在性表达的某些方面也经历了深刻而剧烈的挣扎。

Gandhi was a Scorpio rising who also struggled deeply and profoundly in terms of aspects of sexual expression.

所以我认为，这两个人作为例子，很好地体现了天蝎座的挣扎。

So I think these two really kind of, as an examples, do parallel the struggles for a Scorpio.

但再次强调，不要以为这总是意味着你只是到处乱搞。

But again, don't think that always translates into, you know, well, you're just out there having sex.

是的。

Sure.

所以你的意思是，这个星座并不是完全没有与性或性欲相关的联系或某种关注，只是它并不总是等同于放荡。

So your point your point is just it's not that the sign doesn't have any association or sometimes focus or preoccupation in some way with sex or sexuality, but that it doesn't always necessarily mean promiscuity per se.

对。

Correct.

好的。

Okay.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得你提到的很多内容，萨姆，是关于天蝎座的控制欲，尤其是在性方面。

I think what you were talking about, what you mentioned a lot, Sam, is like an element of control with Scorpio and I think especially when it comes to sex.

我发现确实如此。

And I I find yeah.

很多天蝎座或有天蝎座配置的人实际上更倾向于禁欲，因为我认为天蝎座的一个重要部分是挑战自我。

A lot of times, a lot of Scorpios and Scorpio placements are actually more lean more on the abstaining side because I think a huge part of Scorpio's is this the child, like, challenging oneself.

我认为这种倾向很大程度上源于对控制的需求，以某种方式表现出来，通常会以各种形式呈现。

And I think a lot of that comes from a need for control and what some some way, shape, or form and that often can come out in, you know, various ways.

但在性方面，我经常看到的是控制自己不去发生性行为，或者更倾向于在追求性时对自己有更多掌控。

But with sex, I I see it a lot like controlling oneself from having sex or or wanting, you know, more control over oneself in a way where you're going out and seeking it more.

所以，是的，这两种情况都可能存在，但我认为在很多方面，控制归根结底是核心。

So yeah, it can go it can go either way, but I think control kinda it comes down to that in a lot of a lot of aspects.

这是一个非常棒的观点，即背后可能存在一种控制的潜在动机或主导原型，而追求 Mastery 和自我掌控往往是主要驱动力。

That's a really great point that there's there can be an underlying motivation or overarching archetype of of control and attempt to achieve mastery and self self mastery is like a major motivating factor.

是的。

Yeah.

尤其是我发现，天蝎座太阳的人总是以某种方式不断挑战自己。

Especially, I find it a lot with Scorpio Suns that they're just always challenging themselves in some way in some way, you know.

但没错，这确实是我在天蝎座身上经常看到的原型。

But yeah, that's definitely a Scorpio archetype I I find a lot.

好的。

Okay.

而且还有，哦，我刚想说另一点，关于生殖器与天蝎座的关联。

And and also just oh, I was just gonna say another thing just in regards to the genitals being related to Scorpio.

对我来说，这让我想到了分娩，以及分娩所体现的火星特质。

It just for me, it just brought up like childbirth and sort of the Martian nature of childbirth.

而且我认为，性行为本身在很多方面都有一种金星与火星的对立特质。

And and I guess sex in general, there's there's like a, I think, a Venus and Mars aspect on on a lot of ways when it comes to sex.

但你很多年前在某一集中也提到过这一点。

But and you talked about that on episode many, many years ago.

也许那只是一个轶事，但我记得你谈过，我认为通常需要金星和火星共同作用。

And maybe it was just like an anecdote on something, but I remember that conversation around how I think it takes both Venus and Mars often.

但当我们谈论受孕行为，以及分娩这一部分时，这确实显得非常具有火星特质。

But but, yeah, when we're talking about, like, the act of, like, conceiving a child and then also, like, the childbirth part of that too that does seem very Martian.

这也让我想到，水象星座是最具生育力的星座，而与水象星座相关的动物也往往生育很多后代。

And it just also makes me think about how water signs are the most fertile signs and the animals associated with the water signs have the most baby you know, have a lot of babies too.

这些想法也同时浮现了出来。

So those things just came up as well.

我想我们也可以谈谈这种主动的性欲。

And I guess we also could talk about, you know, this active sexuality.

正如你提到的，基拉，关于天蝎座的儿子们，但我想我们可以将这一点扩展到其他天蝎座的影响上——渴望提升和变得更强大，这让我想到上升天蝎座的弗里德里希·威廉·尼采，据说他曾说过：‘那些没有杀死我的，使我更强大。’

And as you talked about, Kirah, with the Scorpio sons, but I think we could extend it to the other Scorpio influences, of wanting to improve and be stronger, makes me think of the Scorpio rising Frederick Wilhelm Nietzsche, who reportedly said, that which does not kill me makes me stronger.

对吧？

Right?

这是一种寻求更强力量的理念，或许是为了保护自己免受脆弱感的侵袭，而这种某种程度上可能与一个人的性欲或生命力有关。

And it's the the idea of kind of looking for more strength, perhaps a way of shielding themselves from that vulnerability, and maybe some measure of that is tied to one's sexuality or vitality.

也许‘生命力’这个词更贴切。

That might be the better word.

一个人最根本的生命力。

One's prime sense of vitality.

这是个很好的观点。

That's a good point.

这让我想起奥斯汀在分析天蝎座某个十度段时提到过的一件事。

That reminds me one of the things that Austin talks about in one of his breakdowns of one of the decans of Scorpio.

他提到‘饥饿’是天蝎座的一个潜在关键词，至少对其中一个十度段来说是这样。

He mentioned like hunger as an underlying like keyword for for Scorpio, at least for one of the decans.

我觉得提到这种对某种东西的渴望，甚至有时这种渴望失衡时表现为一种无尽的不满足感，这真是一个有趣而深刻的见解。

And I thought that was a really interesting and insightful thing to mention in in connection with that, like the idea of of like hunger for something or or even sometimes when that's out of whack, an ocean of like insatiability.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我经常用这个词来形容自己。

That's I use that word to describe myself a lot.

不满足。

Insatiable.

但没错，谈到天蝎座时，‘渴望’这一点确实非常贴切，毕竟天蝎是火星主宰的水象星座，存在着一种对保留的强烈需求。

But, yeah, the hunger piece definitely hits pretty hard, I think, when talking about Scorpio and and, you know, Mars Mars ruled water sign essentially, how there is this, like, need for retention.

我知道，这种需求体现为对稳定性的执着，但天蝎座的‘保留’特质，我经常发现，尤其是月亮和金星落在天蝎座的人，常常会出现水肿或实际的水分滞留问题。

And, you know, I think that's the fixity of, like, needing consistency, but the the retention retention quality of Scorpio, I often find, you know, people with Scorpio placements, especially, like, the moon and Venus will often have problems with being bloated or, like, literal water retention.

这反映出天蝎座在‘无法放手’这一点上存在问题，嗯。

And it's like there's an issue with Scorpio about around not letting not being able to let go Mhmm.

以及释放，你知道，最近南交点似乎一直在帮我们处理这方面的问题。

And release, you know, which the South Node, I I guess, has been helping us with lately.

但确实，这也涉及到控制的方面。

But but, yeah, that also comes in with the control element of it too.

但没错，对我而言，保留和滞留这一点与饥饿感紧密相连，那种不满足、总觉得不够的感觉。

But, yeah, just the retaining and retention piece to to me kinda goes hand in hand with the the hunger and, like, not the insatiability and not really having enough.

这并不是一种共识。

And it's not an agreed.

我认为某种程度上它触及了野性本质，我这里说的不只是火星在占星学中的含义。

I I think some measure of it taps into the nature, the feral nature, and I'm not talking about it just in terms of the astrology of Mars.

我经常想到的一点是，火星内部的猎人或女猎手形象，我最近也发过推文提到过。

One of the things that I often think about too, I I kinda tweeted about it recently too, was the idea of the hunter huntress within The Martian.

我当时特别谈到了比约克的《猎人》这首歌。

And I was specifically talking about Bjork's Hunter song.

你知道吗，比约克是个三重天蝎座。

And, you know, Bjork is a triple Scorpio.

她的太阳、月亮和上升星座都在天蝎座。

She has the sun, moon, and rising in Scorpio.

我了解到她妈妈也是一名占星师。

And I learned that her mom is also an astrologer.

在这首歌中，还有一版改编被用在了《终结者》系列电影里，它传达了这样一种理念：我要去狩猎，这种狩猎的过程本身带来了一种愉悦感，一种对目标的追逐。

And in that song, which also has an adaptation that was used in one of the Terminator movies, is is this idea of I'm going hunting and it's some measure of the joy in the hunt, in the pursuit of something.

当你是天蝎座时，有些人就会变得执拗不已。

And some people, you know, when you when you have that as a Scorpio, you know, it kind of just becomes dogged.

我的意思是，这甚至是我开始接触占星、或更深入研究占星的原因。

I mean, that's even how I got into astrology or deeper into astrology.

我根本放不下。

I could not let it go.

我不知道自己当时究竟在追寻什么。

And I don't know what I was hunting for.

我只是知道，我在寻找某些东西。

I just knew I was looking for something.

我以为自己是在寻找占星术的谬误，比如最终发现它不过是个骗局。

I thought I was looking for, you know, the fallacy of astrology, you know, that I would discover, like, it's a trick.

所以我当时其实很愿意去，或者说想要，揭开占星术的真相。

And so I was kind of willing or looking to, I guess, disrobe astrology.

但我一直在追寻占星术，却没意识到，我想，最终其实是它在追我。

But I was hunting astrology and not realizing, I think, ultimately, I was being hunted.

但这也是天蝎座常会发生的事。

But that's also something that happens with Scorpio.

你知道，我们总是在追寻着什么。

You know, we're we're in pursuit of something.

是的。

Mhmm.

我觉得光是听你这么说，我就完全能感同身受，这让我想到我们所有天蝎座的事情都落在占星术的第九宫。

I think just think hearing you say that, I definitely relate and it makes me think of, you know, all this all of our Scorpio stuff being in the ninth house of astrology.

我觉得我进入占星术的方式也非常相似。

And I feel like my entrance into it was very similar in that.

我看到自己的星盘在屏幕上显示出来。

I saw my birth chart, you know, on the screen.

我搜了一下，那晚根本没睡。

I googled it, and I did not sleep that night.

我一整晚都没合眼。

I didn't get a lick of sleep.

我就是停不下来地搜索。

I just couldn't stop searching.

我把谷歌的每一页都看遍了，十年后的今天，我依然如此着迷。

I looked at every page of Google and here I am ten years later and I'm still just as obsessed.

所以，是的，这种‘追猎’的感觉在这里也相当贴切。

So, yeah, the the hunting piece feels feels pretty apt there as well.

但我觉得这和你说的，克里斯，那种‘渴望’有关。

But I think it relates to what you're saying, Chris, which is the the hunger.

对吧？

Right?

这种渴望源于某种你试图满足的东西。

It it comes from something that you're trying to satiate.

是的。

Yeah.

找到并培养对某件事的热情，并对此充满激情。

And the the finding developing a passion for something and being very passionate about something.

一旦这种热情建立起来，就需要我们之前提到的耐力。

And once that passion is established having, as we said earlier, endurance.

你们提到这一点真有趣，因为说来讽刺，我接触占星学其实是通过阴谋论——我曾经极度沉迷于阴谋论。

It's funny you guys mentioned that because I think my entrance into astrology was through conspiracy theories ironically, I was super into conspiracy theories as a No way.

还有就是，我那时在研究诺查丹玛斯和一些关于未来的预言，类似那些听起来很神秘的玄学内容。

Well, that and some like I was studying like Nostradamus and like predictions about the future and like Which is kind of like obscure occult sounding things like that.

后来我发现了出生星盘的概念，基拉对此完全着迷。

Then I discovered the concept of birth charts and Kirah was just completely fascinated by it.

尽管我最终经历了一段旅程，逐渐对阴谋论变得更加怀疑，但占星学却是我唯一保留下来、依然觉得有道理的东西，它让我如此着迷，以至于我意识到这正是我一生想研究的领域。

And even though I eventually went through a whole journey and process of becoming ironically more skeptical about conspiracy theories, eventually astrology was the one thing that I sort of stuck with that still seemed to be valid and and that I was so fascinated by that I realized that that was what I wanted to spend my life studying essentially.

哇。

Wow.

我之前不知道你还有这段经历。

I didn't know that about you.

这是我刚接触的新东西。

It's something I'm new to learn.

真酷。

That's cool.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，关于天蝎座，我们或许也可以提一下，他们有时对幕后发生的事情非常敏感，这种特质其实很有益处，能让他们具备直觉力——不一定是指那种通灵式的直觉，而是对事物表面之下的暗流和真实动向有敏锐的感知。

Well, and that's a, you know, thing maybe that we could mention as well with Scorpios is sometimes they have this sensitivity to what's going on behind the scenes, which can be really good and it can make them sort of intuitive, not necessarily always just in like psychic sense or something like that, but just having a good intuition for what's going on and what the undercurrents are that are flowing beneath the surface of things.

我认为这可能正是天蝎座作为天秤座之后的星座所具备的修正特质：天秤座有时更关注表面现象和外在形象，甚至把维持表面光鲜当作首要任务；而天蝎座则更深入内在，更专注于幕后正在发生的事。

I think that's actually probably part of the corrective quality that Scorpio has as the sign that follows after Libra is that Libra can sometimes be more about surface level things and what's going on in the surface and that being very important to keep up almost like surface appearances as the primary focus whereas Scorpio goes much more internal and much more inside is much more focused on what's happening behind the scenes.

但这种天蝎座的本能有时会失控，一旦失去节制，就可能演变成偏执或阴谋论思维。

But I think in that impulse, sometimes that impulse for Scorpio can short circuit sometimes and it can lead to when it gets out of control like a paranoia or a conspiratorial thinking.

而他们最难放下的，恰恰是意识到：并非每件事都是阴谋或计划，有时候，事情就是单纯地发生了。

And sometimes the best thing to get away from that, that they have a hard time letting go of is that not everything is like a conspiracy or a plot and sometimes stuff just happens.

并不是所有事情都像某种宏大的幕后计划那样被精心安排好的。

Everything's not always you know, planned out behind the scenes necessarily in this grand master way.

是的。

Yeah.

偏执有点像是一种超越常识的极端想法。

It it's kinda like paranoia means the the thorough idea of, you know, something beyond knowing.

我认为这和阴谋论这个大主题有关：并不是说没人想害你，而是并非每个人都在针对你。

And I think it's not that, and this is kind of going along with this general idea of conspiracy and conspiracy theory, is that it's not that no one may be out to get you, it's not everyone is out to get you.

对。

Right.

所以我觉得，天蝎座在某种程度上把这个玩笑夸大了，总以为是某个人在背后搞鬼——我曾经有个室友是天蝎座，他就很有这种倾向。

So I think that's where Scorpios kind of take, you know, figuratively the joke too far in thinking that, you know, it's this person I mean, I I once had a roommate who was a Scorpio, who had that sensibility.

这挺有意思的。

And it was interesting.

那时候我对占星还没那么深入，但事后回想起来，我突然意识到，这可能确实和天蝎座有关。

I wasn't into astrology that deep at that moment, but reflectively, I kind of realized, like, oh, that might be true about Scorpio.

因为我见到他的时候，我心想，嗯，我去他宿舍，发现他镜子上盖着一个枕套。

Because I when I met him, I I was like, well, you know, I I went to his dorm room and he had a pillowcase over his mirror.

我当时就问，为什么你的镜子上盖着个枕套？

And I was like, why is there a pillowcase over your mirror?

因为他当时正在和别人说话，而我像个多余的第三者，我实在忍不住问他：镜子上为什么盖着枕套？

Because he was actually talking to someone else, and I was as there as kind of the the third wheel, and I I couldn't resist asking him, why is there a pillowcase over your mirror?

他说：哦，因为有人在盯着我看。

He said, oh, because they're looking at me.

谁？谁在盯着你？

Who who are they?

他回答：隔壁的人。我当时就觉得，这太有意思了。

And he's like, the people next door, and I was like, this is fascinating.

我没有对此发表评论，也不知道为什么最后会和他成为室友，除了通过另一个共同的朋友，因为那种偏执感根本没消失。

I decided not to comment on it and I don't know why I end up as his roommate other than through that other mutual friend, because that paranoia didn't go away.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但这是一个特别极端的例子，而且我不会完全否定这种可能性，也许真的有人在背后嘲笑他，觉得‘哦，你真是个怪人’。

But that is one in particular extreme, and again, I won't just completely dismiss out of hand that maybe, you know, he there were people who might have smirked about him because they may have seen like, oh, yeah, you're a weirdo.

但我觉得，像他想的那样有那么多人这么想，其实并没有。

But I don't think it was as many people as he thought.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗，这件事特别有趣，它让我意识到事情的另一面：有时候，真的有人在针对你。这让我想起了一个非常著名的天蝎座配置，就是J。

You know, what's really funny about this, it just made me realize it made me remember like the opposite side of that, which is like sometimes they are out to get you and it just reminded me of a very famous Scorpio placement, which is J.

埃德加·胡佛，他上升星座是摩羯座，土星和天王星也位于天蝎座，中天也在天蝎座。

Edgar Hoover who had Capricorn rising and Saturn and Uranus in Scorpio as well as the Midheaven in Scorpio.

他是联邦调查局的局长，参与收集各种人的秘密、监视他人，甚至有时勒索别人，做很多见不得光的幕后勾当。所以很有趣的是，反过来想，确实存在这样的事情，而天蝎座的能量有时似乎特别能感知到这些，或者有些人本身就从事着这些幕后活动。

And he was like the head of the FBI and was involved in like, you know, gathering together different people's like secrets and like spying on people and sometimes like blackmailing people and doing all sorts of like shady behind the scenes stuff so that like You know, it's funny because the flip side of it is like sometimes there is stuff like that out there and it's sometimes the Scorpio energy is almost sometimes attuned to picking that up or sometimes are the people sort of working behind the scenes involved in those those things.

但这就是挑战所在。

But that's the challenge.

我认为，挑战在于学会明辨是非。

The challenge I think is to learn to be discerning.

正如我所说，并不是每个人都在针对你。

Like I said, it's not everyone that's out to get you.

这并不意味着没人针对你。

Doesn't mean there's no one.

没错。

Right.

这只是意味着你必须学会辨别。

It just means that you have to kind of be discerning.

当然。

For sure.

对于那些火星能量强烈或有深刻天蝎座能量的人来说，这可能是一生的学习与挑战：学会如何辨别，找到在敏感察觉环境变化与拥有这种近乎超能力的直觉之间的正确平衡。

And that's probably a lifelong lesson and struggle for maybe heavy Scorpio placements or energy is learning how to be discerning and learning to find the correct balance between being sensitive to what's happening in the environment and having that almost as like a special superpower.

但另一方面，也不要让这种敏感失控，把你带入奇怪的偏执甚至近乎妄想的境地？

But on the other hand, not letting that sensitivity get out of whack and lead you into weird places of paranoia and sort of almost delusion?

是的。

Yeah.

我认为天蝎座经常面临的一个问题是，你知道，我们是固定星座，所以容易陷入单向思维。

I think I think an issue that Scorpio often has is, you know, we're it's fixed sign, so you can kinda have a one track track mind.

而且很难偏离这种思维模式，这让我想起之前Coppock在这档节目中曾把天蝎座比作水管，就像水流只朝一个方向流动。

And it can be really hard to sort of divert from that, which reminds me of another at one point, Coppock on this show had mentioned at related Scorpio to, like, water pipes, like, what fixed water, water going into in one one direction.

对吧？

Right?

固定在一个方向上。

Fixed in one direction.

这让我想到，要改变天蝎座的想法有多困难，包括我自己的，是的。

And, yeah, it just makes me think about how difficult it can be to change a Scorpio's mind, mine included, yeah.

就像水流正沿着管道朝一个方向奔涌。

It's like, you know, the water is rushing through the pipes in this one direction.

你打算怎么改变它的流向呢？

It's like, how are you gonna how are you gonna divert that?

所以，是的，这种单向思维我在自己身上也发现了，我是在一个太阳和水星都在天蝎座的父亲身边长大的。

So, yeah, I can the one track mind I I find in I was raised by a Scorpio father with sun and and Mercury there.

而且我觉得，对于那些更偏日间的行星，比如太阳或水星，这些更偏向思维的行星落在天蝎座时，也会更难摆脱这种状态，因为确实如此。

And I I think with those more diurnal planets too, you know, the sun or even Mercury, more mentally oriented planets in Scorpio can have a harder time with that as well because it's like yeah.

在一种非常黑暗、浑浊且黏滞的环境中试图理性思考，这正是我对天蝎座的想象。

Just trying to rationalize in an environment that is very dark and murky and sticky, which is what I think of Scorpio like.

所以是的。

So yeah.

对。

Yeah.

也许这里一个合适的关键词是‘执念’，它有时会出现，这可能是好事，也可能是坏事。

Maybe a good keyword there is is obsession sometimes that comes up and that can be a good thing sometimes or can be a bad thing.

当执念被正确引导时，就像对某件事充满热情，极度投入——无论是对一个人、一个爱好、一个人生目标，还是类似的东西。

Obsession when channeled correctly is like having a passion for something and just being super passionate about something whether that's a person, whether it's a hobby, whether it's a life goal or something like that.

但其他时候，它也可能变成一种执念，可能并不健康，而且一旦它朝着某个方向发展，就很难再扭转，就像一列全速前进的货运列车。

But other times, it can also be like an obsession or something that's that's maybe not necessarily healthy and that is hard to redirect once it gets headed sort of in a certain direction sort of like a freight train.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

我只想说，尤其是对我们这些有天蝎座星盘的人来说，当冥王星加入进来时，那种强迫性的执念会变得更加强烈，这确实是这样。

And I'll just say especially for us Pluto and Scorpios that have Scorpio placements, the obsession compulsion piece just kinda gets ramped up when you add Pluto in the mix, which is yeah.

我们这一代人中有整整十五年具有这种特质，或者我该说十二年。

We have that whole fifteen years of our generation that have that, so or twelve years, I should say.

我还想说，当我们要讨论房间里的大象——也就是这颗行星或矮行星时，我认为‘执念’这个词通常与冥王星和天蝎座相关联，而不仅仅是冥王星位于天蝎座，还包括冥王星作为天蝎座的潜在主宰星。

Well, I was gonna also say, I mean, I guess, whenever you're gonna talk about the the elephant or the planet or dwarf planet in the room, because I think some measure of that word obsession, I think, is associated commonly with Pluto related to Scorpio, and not just Pluto in Scorpio, but Pluto as putative ruler of Scorpio.

虽然我不认同用现代行星作为主宰星，但因为冥王星与天蝎座的这种关联，它已经成为了天蝎座术语的一部分。

Now, I don't subscribe to using modern planets as rulers, but it has become part of the lexicon of Scorpio because of that association with the modern planet Pluto.

所以我认为我们也可以从固定水象火星的角度来解释这一点。

So I think that's but we could explain that also in terms of fixed watery Mars.

没错。

Exactly.

潜水者。

Diver.

是的。

Yeah.

这是深度探索者。

It's the deep diver.

所以，无论你从冥王星还是火星的角度来看，它都是一种让你感到被拉扯的力量。

So it's kinda like either way you wanna look at it, whether it's from Pluto or from Mars, it is some way in which you feel pulled.

这其实是个很有趣的现象。

And that's kind of an interesting thing.

我们到目前为止讨论了这么多的星座，常常涉及控制，但有时却会感觉失去了控制，仿佛有什么外在力量在牵引着你，你知道的，就像我们刚才谈的占星学那样，但也可能是：‘萨姆，你为什么会在那个女孩家里？’

A sign that we've talked about so much so far with control often can seem to lose control with being feeling like something external to it is pulling it, you know, whether it's you know, as we were talking about astrology, but it could be like, why were you at that girl's house, Sam?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我只是觉得我必须去那里。

I just felt like I had to be there.

这并不是来自我的生活。

That's not, like, from my life.

好吧？

Okay?

好的。

Alright.

当然。

Sure.

但你知道，这种强迫性的特质可能会出现，我听说过天蝎座的人会这样，尤其是当涉及到——我们刚刚在谈天秤座，当有人对我们造成了不公时。

But, you know, it's kind of this obsessive quality that may may happen that is, you know, I've heard Scorpio talk about, where you just especially when it relates to, you know, we were just talking about Libra, you know, where a a wrong has been committed against us.

我们可能会感到必须强迫自己去纠正、处理这种不公。

We may feel compelled, obsessed about correcting, dealing with that wrong.

我曾在推特和其他地方提到过一个讽刺的点：我出生在天蝎座的末尾，但我的哥哥，那位年长的哥哥，现在已经不在了，他却出生在天蝎座的开端。

One thing that I've talked about on Twitter and other places, as a point of irony, is that I'm born at the very end of Scorpio, but my brother, my bigger old older brother who's now no longer with us, but he was born at the very beginning of Scorpio.

我亲眼见过他身上这种强迫性的特质，尤其是当他感到被亏待的时候。

And I saw this obsessive quality with him, especially when he felt wronged.

有时候这种表现会非常极端，你知道的。

And it sometimes could be very extreme, you know.

对。

Yeah.

我不知道我们是不是要聊个人经历了，但那件事刚好能用来举例，我亲眼见过这种特质在他身上的体现。

I don't know if we're getting into personal anecdotes, but that's one particular thing I could go into in terms of, you know, where I saw an expression of that.

不会的，你说得很好，这刚好提到了基拉之前说过的一个点，我之前也在想这件事：有时候我们会忍不住把事情都往自己身上揽，还有基拉提到的那种放不下的状态，就是没法释怀一些事。

No, that's perfect because it brings up something that Kirah mentioned earlier, and I was thinking about it, is, sometimes a tendency to take things overly personally and the tendency that Kirah mentioned which is not letting go, like being unable to let go of things.

有时候这种执念会让你把那些自认受到的冒犯记在心里，甚至记上好几年。

Sometimes that can extend to holding on to perceived slights even for years afterwards.

我记得以前和一个天蝎座的人有过一些浅交，后来就很少听到他的消息了，我当时也没太在意。

I remember having a Scorpio person that I used to have light interactions with and then I stopped hearing from him much, I didn't really think anything of it.

结果多年后我才发现，他因为我没参加某个会议活动之类的小事对我怀恨在心——我觉得那根本不重要，但这真的影响了他，他居然记恨了好几年。

Then I found out years later that he held a grudge against me for some minor thing that I didn't show up to an event at a conference or something that I didn't think was that important, but it really impacted him and he had held onto it for years.

这让我想起，当时我觉得这是一个非常有趣且迷人的教学时刻，因为我某种程度上理解了那种行为的来源，同时也能看到自己有时也会有那种冲动，比如把一些事情过于个人化，然后难以释怀，或者有时候在放下某些事情上挣扎，这似乎是天蝎座的一种普遍特质。

And it reminded me, I thought it was really interesting and fascinating teaching thing at the time because I sort of understood then where that was coming from and I could see also the impulse in myself sometimes to do things like that as like a universal Scorpio thing of sometimes taking things overly personally and then not letting go of it or or struggling sometimes to let go of things.

是的。

Yeah.

这可能会变成一潭死水。

It could become stagnant water.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，到现在我 still 对中学时某些事情感到生气，你知道的。

I mean, there's still people that I'm mad mad at for certain things that happened in middle school, you know.

对。

Right.

从幼儿园，二十年前的事情，比如你

From like kindergarten from like twenty years ago, like you're

确实如此。

still Absolutely.

你竟敢这样？

Like, how dare you?

我到现在还为此生气呢。

You know, I'm still mad about it.

但是，是的。

But but yeah.

我觉得，你知道，我刚才正要说的内容突然就忘了。

I think, you know, I felt like I just lost what I was about to say from that.

抱歉。

Sorry.

没关系。

That's alright.

就是那种不肯放手、执着于某些事物的想法。

Just the the notion of not letting go and of holding onto things.

所以是执着、痴迷，把事情个人化，也许比实际情况更加个人化，这或许与天蝎座那深沉如水的特质有关——尽管它外表有盔甲或尖刺，像是在隐藏或保护什么，但其核心其实非常情感化、脆弱，而这些防御机制或许正是为了保护这份脆弱而建立的。

So retention, obsession, personalising things becoming more personal maybe sometimes than they are maybe because of that deeply watery nature of Scorpio, which even though it has that external armor or prickliness that it's like hiding or protecting something which ultimately is very emotionally or vulnerable at its core and maybe that some of those defense mechanisms are set up in order to protect that in some way.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这正好解释了为什么金星和月亮在天蝎座时会如此艰难。

And I think that this is kind of gets to parts of why Venus and the Moon have such a hard time in Scorpio.

我总是说，月亮更倾向于只是想要经历一些事情，然后放下，继续前行。

I always talk about how the Moon like would rather the Moon just wants to have like an experience and then, like, drop it and move on.

月亮真正追求的是，是的。

Like, the moon really is is looking for yeah.

被触动之后，再慢慢向前走。

To be impacted and and then to kind of move on.

同样，金星也在努力建立联系，表面上看，它真的很想找到我们之间的共同点。

And similarly with Venus, Venus is trying to make these connections and, you know, on the surface, really, like seeing what we have in common.

但在天蝎座，很难放下某些事情。

But in Scorpio, it's hard to it's hard to move past certain things.

我认为月亮尤其如此，因为它在天蝎座处于落陷状态，在天蝎座处理情绪需要太长时间，而月亮其实只是想继续前进。

And I think with the moon, especially having its fall in Scorpio, it just takes way too long to process in Scorpio, whereas the moon is just trying to move on, I think.

在天蝎座，我总是把它形容为一片沼泽。

And in Scorpio, I always describe it as a swamp.

这就是我对天蝎座环境的描述。

That's how I that's how I describe the environment of Scorpio.

而且处理这些事情、放下它们需要花费太长时间，我认为这就是为什么人们会把事情个人化，或者无法从某些事情中走出来的原因。

And it just takes so much longer to, yeah, to process things to move on and to and I think that's where, you know, taking things personally comes from or not being able to move on from certain things.

因为一旦你受到哪怕一点伤害，这种影响就会深深渗透到天蝎座的灵魂深处。

It's because it's like, you know, once you get hit even a little bit, there's sort of reverberations that just go so deep into a Scorpio's, you know, soul.

比如，有人插队了，这根本不是什么大事，但却可能触发某些回忆，比如小学一年级时汤米插了你的队，你没吃到你想要的那块蛋糕。

It's like, you know, someone cuts you in line or something and it's really not a big deal, but it might trigger some incident where, you know, Tommy cut you in line in first grade and you didn't get the piece of cake that you wanna whatever.

但我认为，是的。

But I think the yeah.

天蝎座的这种影响实在太深了，想要轻松自在、轻易放下事情真的很难。

It just goes so deep with Scorpio, and it can be hard to sort of be light and airy and and just move on from things.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且要几乎做到和善友好。

And to be almost like pleasant.

金星是非常和善的行星，尤其是在天秤座，它希望所有人都能和睦相处；在金牛座也是如此，某种程度上也是如此。

Like Venus is like a very pleasant planet, especially in Libra is a very, you know, wanting everyone to be sort of on good terms or even in Taurus to a certain extent.

而有时，天蝎座作为火星守护的星座，可能会执着于一些更阴暗的事物，比如并非一切总是愉快或积极的。

Whereas sometimes Scorpio being that Mars ruled sign can sometimes fixate on the darker things of like, you know, not everything is pleasant or not everything is always positive all the time.

有时，对现实阴暗面的觉察，或许正是这种对比的一部分。

And sometimes that awareness of the darker aspects of reality maybe is is part of the contrast.

或者深入探索其更深层的层面或真相。

Or going toward the deeper aspects of it or truth.

你知道，我记得我是在两个受天秤座影响的父母身边长大的。

You know, I I remember I was raised by two Libra influenced parents.

我记得，小时候我就当上了传道者，所以我想谈论与神学、灵魂和灵性相关的话题。

I remember, you know, I was a a preacher at an early age, and so I wanted to talk about things related to theology and spirit and spirituality.

我记得我妈妈曾说，嗯，或者政治。

I remember my mom saying, what, you know, or politics.

她会说，你为什么不说些轻松点的事，比如天气呢？

She's like, well, why don't you just talk about lighter things like the weather?

所以接下来三十年，我都没跟任何人聊过天气。

And so I didn't talk about the weather for thirty years with anybody.

我的意思是，这简直就是典型的天蝎座。

I mean, that's like prime Scorpio.

哦，你让我聊天气？

It's like, oh, you want me to talk about the weather?

从来都不聊天气。

Never talking about the weather.

我从来没忘记过那句话。

Never forgot never forgot that comment.

没错。

No.

但我认为这背后还有更深层的原因。

But I think that there's something even deeper related to that.

作为火星星座，火星通过其炎热干燥的特性，与太阳相连，同时也与白羊座的特质相关。

As a Mars sign and Mars even kinda having this connection through its hot and dry nature, like the sun, and then its quality related to Aries.

我认为天蝎座还有一种深藏于内的高度自尊。

I think Scorpio also has this high self regard that it keeps deep within itself.

所以我认为，这正是它自恋的一面，尽管我们不喜欢谈论自己的自我。

And so I think that's one egotistical part of it even though we don't like to talk about our egos.

对吧？

Right?

比如，哦，我没有自我。

Like, oh, I don't have an ego.

我试图否定我的自我，但自我却非常强大。

I'm trying to negate my ego, but the ego is very strong.

现在回到蛛形动物，蝎子最令人着迷的是，它会在面临灭绝时用毒刺自刺而死。

Now going back to the arachnid, what's fascinating about the scorpion is that it will sting itself to death with facing extinction.

想想看，这种生物如果面临致命威胁，宁愿自我了断，展现出如此强烈的自我决断力。

And just think about that, you know, this creature, if it's facing such a threat to itself, it would rather off itself and have that self that level of self determination.

我认为这可以反映当天蝎座受到伤害时的状态。

And I think that can be reflective of when Scorpios are hurt.

你怎么敢这样对我？

It's like, how dare you do that to me?

所以当分手发生时，它就会走向另一个极端，你知道的。

And so it goes into other extremes, you know, if we have a breakup.

不。

No.

我不是刚和你分手。

I didn't just break up with you.

你已经死了。

You died.

我参加了你的葬礼。

I attended your funeral.

我穿了黑色衣服，一切都如此。

I wore black, everything.

这种强烈的情感源于我们所经历的事情。

It's kind of where we have this intensity related to, like, what has happened to us.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这种珍贵感常常会出现在天蝎座身上。

This preciousness that can often, you know, come up with Scorpios.

对。

Right.

所以这种强烈的程度，甚至有时近乎极端，尤其是在一对一的关系中，是一种倾向。

So so intensity or almost extremism sometimes is is a tendency, especially when it comes to one on one connections.

而且，这可能也是从天秤座过渡过来时的一个差异——天秤座的社交互动相对轻松，可能涉及很多人。

And again, that's probably part of the difference maybe in in the transition from Libra, which is a little bit lighter social interactions with maybe many people.

而天蝎座则更倾向于与个体进行强烈的一对一互动。

Scorpio is more intense one on one interactions with individual people.

是的。

Yeah.

这样定义很好。

That's a good way to define it.

对。

Yeah.

我之前一直在想，这其实是社交的火星星座，这有点奇怪，因为火星通常被认为是一个非常自我或以自我为中心的行星，但它却是社交的，或者更准确地说，是关系性的。

I was thinking about this earlier as like, you know, it's it's a it's the social Mars sign, which is, you know, weird because Mars is a very, I think, like selfish or self oriented planet, but it is social or maybe not social, but relational, I should say.

它是关系性的火星星座，这很困难，因为火星本身具有强烈的自我导向特质。

It's the relational Mars sign where it's, like, I think difficult because, yeah, there is the very self oriented nature of Mars.

但在天蝎座中，我们必须与他人互动，这种互动迫使我们面对脆弱性，以及所有潜藏在表面之下的情绪和感受。

But in Scorpio, it's we have to, you know, yeah, deal with the other in a way that is that makes us deal with vulnerability and, you know, emotions and everything that is beneath the surface.

我经常想到，天秤座时，我们相遇并寻找共同点。

I I often think about, yeah, with Libra, it's like we're meeting and we're finding our common our common ground.

但在天蝎座，我们则是手牵着手，一起潜入表面之下，深入沼泽，去探索和理解。

But then it's in Scorpio, it's like, you know, we're holding hands and sort of like diving underneath that surface together and and, you know, diving into the swamp really and figuring out.

我总是说，在沼泽里，你根本分不清什么是你的，什么是我的。

I always say, like, in the swamp, it's like you don't know, you know, what's yours and what's mine.

一切都混杂在一起，我认为这就是天蝎座变得特别复杂的地方。

It's all kind of blends together and I think that's where things get really complicated with Scorpio.

而这正是水象星座的本质。

And that's kind of the nature of water too.

对吧？

Right?

就像，事情都混在一起了，很难分清谁是谁的，尤其是当你陷入其中之后。

Like, things blend together and it's really hard to tell who, you know, whose is what and especially once once you get entangled.

我认为这就是为什么当事情需要结束时，我们会变得如此极端，因为这确实很极端，你知道的。

And I think that's why it we get so extreme when things need to end because it's like, you know, it it is extreme, you know.

就像，我必须把自己和你彻底分开，否则那些残留物还是会存在，所以是的。

It's like I have to detangle you from from myself or else, you know, those those remnants are still gonna be there and so it's like, yeah.

这说明了

That speaks

是的。

yeah.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我不是有意的

Didn't mean to

切断你。

cut you off.

不。

No.

不。

No.

你先说。

You go.

你先说。

You go.

‘纠缠’这个词对天蝎座来说真的很贴切吗？

Entanglement's really good keyword for Scorpio?

是的。

Yeah.

我本来想说，你知道，这是我早期学习占星术时记得的另一个词，当时读到天蝎座时，那种必须融合的渴望，对吧？我们是那个处理彻底融合、与他人合一的星座，这一点我一直个人上很难接受。

And I was gonna say that, you know, this is one of the the other words I remember early in my studies of astrology, you know, when reading about Scorpio, this this need to merge, right, that we're the sign that deals with full merge emergence, emergence with the other, which I've always I've always struggled with, you know, personally.

但我还是在想，也许这是我们值得讨论的一个点，就是我们有一种感觉，你知道的，这有点像网络段子，说天蝎座想要吞噬你，就像，哦，我不只是想和你发生性关系。

But I still wonder about, and so maybe that's a good thing for us to talk about, where we have this sense of, you know, and this is kind of the memes, you know, Scorpio wants to kind of consume you, like, oh, it's just like, I don't wanna just, like, have sex with you.

我想和你合二为一。

I wanna be one with you.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

但你们有没有发现和天蝎座相关的某种值得思考的东西？

But do you have you guys found that something to to think about related to Scorpio?

或者

Or

是的。

Yeah.

这肯定和水元素有关。

Gonna be the it's gonna be a water thing.

这就像是你把两块冰块放在房间里挨着，然后放进微波炉加热，它们融化后，所有的水就完全融合成一体。

It's like when you put two ice cubes in a room next to each other, but then you like heat them up in the microwave and they melt, all the water just like merges together into one.

这很有趣，因为我们在其他星座中更容易看到这种现象，尤其是双鱼座，那里有一种近乎普遍或精神层面的融合渴望。

So it's interesting because then we see that more readily in the other signs especially like Pisces where you have this like almost like desire to merge universally or spiritually or something like that.

在天蝎座中，也存在一种类似的冲动，即与某人深度融合。

With Scorpio, there's also something there in a similar impulse to merge deeply with somebody.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

我觉得这是天蝎座非常显著的一个特点，尤其是在天蝎座与他人互动时，我认为这吓到了很多还没有准备好完全融合的人。

I I find that to be a very loud aspect of Scorpio and and Scorpio in relation to others and I think that scares a lot of people too that aren't that aren't ready to completely merge.

对。

Right.

融合？你指的是什么？

Merge is like, what do you mean?

这听起来真有趣。

Like, this sounds really fun.

你为什么不想变成一个完整的人呢？

Why wouldn't you wanna become one one human being?

即使我们才刚约过一次会，你为什么不想现在就和我立下血誓呢？

Why why wouldn't you wanna make a blood pact with me right now even though we've only gone on like one date so far.

是的。

Yeah.

有什么问题吗？

What's the problem?

对。

Yeah.

所以这可能会有点过头。

So it can be a bit much.

可能会有点太过分了。

It can be a little too much.

有时候它们对某些时候来说有点太强烈了。

Sometimes they're a little bit too intense for for sometimes.

在某些情况下，它们可能会表现得过于强烈。

They can come on strong in some instances.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得金星落在天蝎座的人尤其会遇到这种情况。

I think people with Venus and and Scorpio especially deal with this.

每次我跟有金星和天蝎座配置的客户聊天时，我都觉得，你知道，你根本不想说话。

I think there's this whenever I talk to clients with Venus and Scorpio, I'm like, you know, you you don't wanna talk at all.

你根本不想经历交谈的阶段。

You don't wanna have the talking stage at all.

你直接就想深入下去，比如，你想怎么分财务？

You're just ready to, you know, to go in and go deep, you know, like, how do you wanna split our finances?

你知道的，没错。

You know, like Right.

就是啊。

There's just yeah.

我认为，对于拥有金星和天蝎座配置的人，或者仅仅是天蝎座行星较多的人，常常对约会感到抗拒，因为你会觉得：我不想进行交谈，不想经历寒暄阶段。

I think there's a lot of aversion to dating oftentimes with people with Venus and Scorpio because or just, you know, a lot of Scorpio planets because it's like, I don't wanna deal with the talking I don't wanna do the talking stage.

我不想了解某个人。

I don't wanna get to know someone.

我想直接完全地了解你，已经置身其中。

Like, I wanna know you fully and completely and and be there already.

或者至少能够直接进入那个状态，跳过寒暄，直奔更深层的话题，还有那些啊。

Or at least be able to go to go there, to go straight there and to, you know, the more deeper things and skip the talking stuff and the yeah.

那些客套话。

The pleasantries.

是的。

Yeah.

完全同意。

Totally.

那么，你认为冥王星位于天蝎座的人，与火星在天蝎座、金星在天蝎座，甚至太阳在天蝎座的情况下，这种特质会如何体现呢？

So how do you think that it is may manifest for those with the Pluto in Scorpio in relation to Mars in Scorpio or Venus in Scorpio or even the sun?

我们也可以把月亮或其他天蝎座的星体纳入讨论，但你觉得，这种渴望融合的需求，是否在代际层面上被某种方式放大了呢？

We could also draw in the moon, or any Scorpio placement, but do you think that if we could talk about a generational trend that that becomes magnified in somehow, you know, this need to merge?

因为我曾经和一个火星、冥王星都位于天蝎座的人结婚，当时也有一种立刻全身心投入的倾向。

Because I was married to someone with a Mars and Pluto and Scorpio, and there was also this this readiness to kind of like jump right in.

就像，我不在乎水有多深，我知道自己会游泳，我照样会跳进去。

It's like, you know, I don't care how deep the water is or I know how to swim, I'm still gonna go in.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我最喜欢描述天蝎座，尤其是火星在天蝎座的一个关键词是情感上的勇气——就是有那种胆量和魄力，去做一些别人可能会问‘你为什么要冒这个险？’的事情。

Well, one of my favorite keywords for Scorpio, especially Mars in Scorpio, is emotional bravery and just having the, yeah, the bravery and the guts to just, like, go in and do something that, you know, other people might be like, why would you why would you take that risk?

你知道的，就去追求吧。

You know, go for that.

但我觉得，尤其是在亲密关系中，再次承担这些情感上的风险时，天蝎座更愿意这么做，因为天蝎座本身就是个极端的星座。

But I think especially when it comes to being in relationship and, you know, again, taking these more emotional risks, that's something that Scorpio is is more willing to do, I think, because because it's like, yeah, it it's it's such an extreme sign.

它非常非黑即白。

It's very all or nothing.

这正是凶星的本质。

And that's just the nature of malefics.

它们就是极端的。

They're extreme.

但加上冥王星，情况就变得更加极端了。

But yeah, add in Pluto and then it gets really extreme.

我觉得这是个非常好的观点，因为我觉得你们这一代——冥王星在天蝎座的一代——可能在更早的年龄就经历了更多的极端情况。

I think that's a really good point because I think your generation, the Pluto and Scorpio generation, has probably dealt more with certain extremes at earlier ages.

你知道，你们在青春期初期时，大家就会提醒你：小心性行为，可能会得艾滋病，可能会出事。

You know, you're the you're the generation that probably as you were just going toward pubescence, it's like, you know, be careful having sex, you can get AIDS, you can do this.

你们这一代在年少时就经历了全球性经济衰退，还有相对较早的9/11事件和新冠疫情。

You guys have gone through a worldwide recession at an early age, and then the pandemic at a relatively early 09/11.

是的

Yeah.

11年

'11.

09/11

09/11.

对吧

Right?

你知道，我认识一些人，因为我不属于婴儿潮一代。

You know, and and I know people because, you know, I'm a I'm not a boomer.

我是X世代。

I am a Gen Xer.

但我知道有些人听到我说这些事会不高兴，比如，我们也经历过那些事。

But I know some people take umbrage when I mention these things, you know, like, well, you know, we went through it too.

对吧

Right?

但你当时才12岁或20岁，根本没经历过。

Well, you didn't go through it at 12 or 20.

我们经历的并不是同一件事。

We we didn't go through the same things.

所以我觉得你提出的这个观点很有趣，基拉。

So I think that's an interesting point to make that you're making, Kirah.

谢谢。

Thank you.

是的。

Yeah.

基拉和我曾在第275期节目中更深入地讨论过这个话题，当时我们谈到了星象世代和千禧一代的土星星座。

And Kirah and I have talked about that more in episode two seventy five where we talked about astrological generations and the Saturn signs of millennials.

所以我们之前已经讨论过一部分相关内容。

So we had some of that discussion.

还有一些关于深度的内容，比如我们正在讨论的天蝎座，天蝎座总是希望深入探究事物的本质。

Some of this about depth and like Scorpio, this discussion we're having about Scorpio wanting to go really deep with things.

这让我想起一个有趣的小故事，我的朋友米凯说过，有时候他们喜欢在斯科皮奥解释事情时盯着他们说：‘没那么严重’或‘没那么深奥’，就为了惹恼他们。

It makes me remember a funny anecdote that my friend Micah mentioned where they said sometimes something they like to do just to annoy Scorpio is just to look at them and say when they're explaining something and say, It's not that serious or it's not that deep.

米凯确实会这么做。

Micah would.

是的。

Yeah.

而且这太贴切了，我听到这话时，眼睛简直像被刺了一下，感觉又恼火又好笑。

And and that's such a perfect because I sort of like I felt my, like, eye, like, twinge, like, just like hearing that naughty and I funny just

我也有同样的条件反射。

had that knee jerk reaction myself.

没错。

Like Right.

是的。

Yeah.

这会让我气炸。

That would piss me off.

是的。

Yeah.

你是说什么意思？

Like, what do what do you mean?

但那其实很有趣，回到我们之前讨论的，天蝎座之所以如此严肃或深沉，是因为它作为天秤座之后的星座所具有的修正功能。

So but that's actually what's funny and going back to the whole you know, we've talked about how Scorpio, you know, going so serious or going so deep as part of the corrective function as the sign that falls after Libra.

但有趣的是，当你继续到天蝎座之后的下一个星座——射手座时，这正是射手座的修正功能所在。

But then what's funny is when you then go to the next sign after Scorpio into Sagittarius, that's part of the corrective function of Sagittarius.

它会让人轻松一点，你知道的，有趣、幽默、游戏，射手座所具有的是一种更加乐观或欢快的特质，这是对天蝎座的一种修正。

It's like lightening up a bit, you know, fun, humor, games, and a much more like optimistic or sort of jovial quality is what you find in Sagittarius as part of the corrective function to to Scorpio.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

是的。

Yeah.

我总是说，天蝎座就像身处沼泽或洞穴中。

I always say it's like Scorpio, you're in the swamp or you're in the cave.

而射手座，就像你看到了隧道尽头的光，你能从中摆脱黑暗，获得一些视角，或许还能对你在天蝎座经历的、挣扎过的事情形成一些哲学性的理想。

And then Sagittarius, it's like you see the light at the end of the tunnel and, you know, you can kind of lift yourself out of that dark place and have some perspective on it and maybe come to some philosophical, you know, ideals around what you went through, what you struggled through in Scorpio.

但没错，天蝎座绝对是黑暗和悲伤的。

But, yeah, Scorpio is definitely the dark and sads.

你确实会更多地感受到光明。

You get more of the light for sure.

或者找到幽默感。

Or find find the humor.

我的意思是，我在想，木星在天蝎座就是通过黑暗的隧道找到幽默或光明。

I mean, because I'm thinking about Jupiter in Scorpio is to find the humor or the light through the dark tunnel.

这让我想到了露西尔·鲍尔，她的木星就在天蝎座。

And that makes me think of Lucille Ball who had a Jupiter in Scorpio.

当你看《我爱露西》的剧集时，我知道我没看过最近的那些传记片，所以没法评论，而且我也不知道它们到底有多真实。

And, you know, when you look at the I love Lucy episodes, you know, I haven't seen any of the the recent biopics, so I can't comment on those and I don't know how factual they are anyway.

但根据我读过的关于她生平的资料以及观察她的喜剧表演，我知道她是个相当严肃的人，却懂得如何展现自己的喜剧天赋。

But what I do know from reading about her life and looking at her comedy, you know, she was a pretty serious person who knew how to turn on her comedic sensibility.

我觉得曾经听过一位剧作家说过，所有的幽默都源于痛苦。

And I think it was looking at pretty, you know there's there's a statement I heard once from a playwright that all humor is based on pain.

我不知道这是否完全正确，但当你看《我爱露西》或者一般的喜剧，尤其是她的作品时，确实能感受到这些场景中有些是黑暗的，或涉及了某些阴暗面。

I don't know if that's completely true, but it it it definitely seems when you look at, like, something like I Love Lucy or even general comedy, particularly her work, This is where we can recognize that, you know, some of the scenarios that we see in I Love Lucy are definitely dark or dealing with the darker aspects of it.

但这给了她非常强大的勇气。

But that gave her courage in in very powerful ways.

我必须说，作为一个《星际迷航》迷，你提到的这种勇气和胆识——敢于踏入他人不敢涉足的领域——体现在露西尔·鲍尔是《星际迷航》最初的制片人之一，她的制片公司德西·阿纳兹公司参与了制作。

And one of the one thing I have to say is a is a Star Trek lover, one way in which that courage, that bravery that you're talking about, willing to go in places where others wouldn't go, is that Lucille Ball was one of the producers, the initial producers, her studio, Desi Liu, was a producer for Star Trek.

因为当时公司那边，我记得是NBC，大概觉得，是的，干脆取消算了。

Because, you know, because the company was kinda like, you know, I think it was NBC, it's kinda like, yeah, let's let's, you know, 86 it.

他们觉得这根本不会成功。

It's you know, it's not gonna work.

但她却说：不行。

And she's like, no.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

我们来做吧。

Let's let's do it.

所以我们得感谢她，才有了《星际迷航》。

So we have her to thank for Star Trek.

哇。

Wow.

是的。

Yeah.

这挺酷的。

That's pretty cool.

无关话题，稍微换个方向。

Unrelated, kind of a different direction.

天蝎座的一个有趣特点是，众所周知他们喜欢纹身，我想知道你们两位对此有什么看法。

One of the funny things Scorpios are known for, and I was curious if you two had an opinion on this, is Scorpio tattoos.

我不认为还有其他星座的人会像天蝎座这样，你有天蝎座纹身吗？

I don't think there's any other sign of the zodiac that is more Do you have a Scorpio tattoo set?

我有。

I do.

不错。

Nice.

不错。

Nice.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为没有哪个星座的人会像天蝎座那样频繁地把他们的星座符号，尤其是动物象征纹在身上。

I don't think there's any other sign of zodiac that gets their sign and especially like their animal symbol like tattooed on them as often as as Scorpios do.

你们俩知道吗？

Do do either of you know?

狮子座可能会稍微挑战一下我们，但是

Leo might challenge us a little bit but

这有道理。

That's fair.

这有道理。

That's fair.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为天蝎座确实名列前茅。

I think Scorpio definitely is is up there.

我见过处女座的符号纹身。

I have seen Virgo glyph tattoos.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

越来越多了，但我 definitely 认为天蝎座排在前列。

More and more, but I definitely think Scorpio's up there.

而且我觉得不只是纹身相关的周边，天蝎座的各类周边产品都很多，真的。

And I don't think just for tattoos, I think paraphernalia, period.

我现在身上就戴着一条天蝎座的项链呢。

I mean, I'm literally wearing a Scorpio necklace.

没错。

Right.

还有天蝎座的耳环也是

Or Scorpion earrings

对。

Yeah.

或者是戒指、衬衫这类的周边。

Or rings or shirts or whatever.

要说相关的周边物件的话，我觉得天蝎座的周边绝对比其他任何星座都要多。

I think in terms of paraphernalia, I think we hands down have more than any other sign.

而且我觉得很大一部分原因是——我也说不清天蝎座和占星术之间到底有什么特别的，但天蝎座的人好像真的很容易对星座 stereotypes 产生强烈的共鸣。

And I think I think a big part of that is because I don't know what it is about Scorpio and astrology but Scorpios really, like, tend to really connect with the stereotypes.

而且我觉得，很多人确实如此，但天蝎座和占星术之间有种特别的联系，人们接触占星术时会感到被深刻理解，或许正是因为天蝎座是个通常被认为阴暗、容易被误解或不被充分理解的星座。

And I think, you know, a lot of people do, but there's something about Scorpios and astrology and and coming into astrology and feeling so seen maybe because it is such a dark sign that typically feels pretty, you know, misunderstood or or not fully seen.

而且我觉得，没错，占星术中天蝎座的人真的很喜欢占星术，依我看来。

And I think the fact that, yeah, astrology Scorpio is really low tend to love astrology in my opinion.

就像，没错。

Like, just yeah.

那种被看见、被见证、被理解的真实自我。

That feeling seen and witnessed and and who we are.

我从小就接触占星术，记得大概十一二岁的时候，我们学校要求设计一枚家族徽章。

I certainly got into astrology when I was very young and, you know, I remember when I was, I think, around 11 or 12, I made we had to make coat of arms.

当时我们在学中世纪历史，我的徽章是红黑配色，上面画了一只巨大的蝎子和一个天蝎座符号。

So we were learning about medieval times in school and my coat of arms was red and black and it had a huge scorpion and a Scorpio glyph on it.

那是六年级左右，我想大概是六七岁的时候。

And that was, yeah, six or seven I think sixth grade.

是的。

Yeah.

这很酷。

That's cool.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得，尤其是天蝎座的人，和占星术之间有一种特殊的联系，即使是一些表面的刻板印象，我们也会把天蝎座的标志当作荣誉徽章来佩戴。

There's just like this connection, I think, that Scorpios in particular particular have to astrology, even surface level stereotypes that kind of we wear that, you know, wear our Scorpio stuff as like badges of honor.

我也发现，这个星座相关的象征符号可能比其他任何星座都多。

I I also find that this sign probably has more signifiers related to it than I think any other sign.

在我研究占星术的这段时间里——现在大概已经超过三十年了，三十一二年了——我遇到过蝎子、鹰、凤凰、狼、蛇、鸽子。

In the time that I've been studying astrology, which probably is now over thirty years or more, thirty one, thirty two years, I've come across the scorpion, the eagle, the phoenix, the wolf, the snake, the dove.

蜘蛛？

Spider?

什么？

What?

蜘蛛？

Spider?

也许是蜘蛛，但那已经是七种了。

Maybe spider, but just that is seven.

我不知道还有哪个星座有这么多动物或生物与之相关。

I don't know any other sign that has as many animals or creatures associated with it.

确实如此。

That's true.

是的。

Yeah.

巨蟹座倒是有个滑稽的误会，比如龙虾和螃蟹搞混，但那更多是个意外。

Just Cancer has the goofy, like, question like lobster versus crab mix up, but that's more of an accident.

对。

Yeah.

语言问题。

Linguistic issue.

这是个好观点。

That's a good point.

我的意思是，我们该不该讨论这个问题？

I mean, should we address that at all?

我知道有些书说天蝎座有不同的层次，或者有不同的天蝎座类型，或者其他类似的说法。

I know there's some books that say that there's different levels of Scorpio or different types of Scorpio or other things like that.

我一直在想，这些说法到底有多真实，或者这些隐喻是否有任何依据。

I've always wondered how true that is or if there's anything to some of those those metaphors.

我经常思考这个问题。

I I think about that a lot.

我对这个问题的看法是，我非常期待听听基拉对此的看法，我认为确实存在不同层次，但这些层次比我们通常认为的要更加灵活、不稳定或无常。

And where I've landed with it, and I can't wait to hear what Kirah has to say about it, I I think there are levels, but I think those levels are a lot more malleable and impermeable or impermanent than we might give them give credit for.

我只能从自己的生活经历，以及观察其他天蝎座来谈这一点。

And I can just speak to up to that from my life, but also observing other Scorpios.

没错。

So Right.

常见的明显特征

The common distinct

你并不是像一个宝可梦那样，到了某个时候就进化成另一种类型的天蝎座，然后就固定不变了？

You're not just like a poke a Pokemon that, like, evolves into a different type of Scorpio at some point you stay there?

你一直都在那里。

You stay right.

没错。

Exactly.

我认为常见的说法是，你是蝎子、老鹰，还是凤凰。

I think, you know, the common breakdown is that are you a scorpion, an eagle, or a phoenix.

对吧？

Right?

然后还有这种观点，认为你会努力成长为凤凰型的天蝎座。

And then there's this this idea that you're gonna aspire to become the phoenix scorpion.

我觉得有时候，早上醒来，我是老鹰，有时候我是凤凰，但其他时候我又像一只蝎子。

I think that some days, you know, I wake up and I'm an eagle, some days I'm a phoenix, and then other times I'm like, Scorpion.

对吧？

Right?

所以这就是我认为发生的情况。

So that's kind of what I I think it happens.

我觉得对我而言也差不多，我看待它的方式类似，就像进化与未进化的星座之类，人们会认为你是个未进化的天蝎座，因为你怎么样。

I think I think it's a similar for me, I I view it similarly as like evolved and unevolved signs or things like that where people think, you know, you're an unevolved Scorpio because you whatever.

因为你嫉妒什么的，或者符合某种刻板印象。

Because you're jealous about that, you know, or whatever stereotype.

所以我不太认同，我觉得就像萨姆说的，你常常会处于地上的小天蝎状态。

So I don't really I I think that, yeah, just like Sam said, you can be, I think, oftentimes in the little Scorpio on the floor.

但也会有那么一些时刻，你会像凤凰从灰烬中重生，是的。

But there are moments of being the phoenix rising from the ashes and Yeah.

我觉得这确实是许多天蝎座故事中不可或缺的一部分。

And I think that is definitely part of the, you know, a lot of Scorpio's stories at times.

但是

But

对。

yeah.

这是个好观点。

That's a good point.

对。

Yeah.

而且也许其中一些说法是因为我认为像鹰或凤凰这样的概念可能不超过一百年，我猜是这样。

And maybe some of that stuff because I don't I don't think some of those other ideas like eagle or phoenix probably don't go back more than a century or so, I'm guessing.

也许那个时期，所有神智学者都对进化这种线性精神发展观念着迷，而不是……

And maybe it was from that period with all the Theosophists where there was this like obsession with the idea of like evolution as this linear spiritual development thing rather than

至于鹰作为天蝎座的新象征，我不确定，因为你知道，四动物的概念，即与黄道十二宫相关的神圣动物，可以追溯到几个世纪前，与福音书有关，而福音书在圣经中也与黄道十二宫的符号相互呼应。

Well, don't know about the eagle as new to Scorpio because one of the things, you know, is that the idea of the four animals, you know, the holy animals related to the zodiac even goes back, you know, centuries related to the gospels, which also work in tandem in the bible, which people have come to associate with the signs of the zodiac.

所以是金牛座，公牛。

So the Taurus, the bull.

这四个动物，也就是固定宫位，现在已经与固定宫位对齐了，我认为这并不是从神智学派开始的。

So the four animals, the the fixed signs, have now become aligned with the fixed signs, I don't think that starts with the Theosophists.

我觉得这可能更古老一些。

I think that's might might be older.

我不认为这是希腊化传统的组成部分，但我认为它是在中世纪由基督徒发展出来的，其根源可以追溯到巴比伦的拉马苏。

I don't think it's part of the Hellenistic tradition per se, but I think it's something that does develop we could see probably in the medieval era from Christians, and it has its roots with the Lamassu with Babylonia.

拉马苏据说由公牛、鹰、人类和狮子组成。

So the Lamassu was said to be composed of a Taurus, the eagle, a human being, and the lion.

因此，它与这四种固定生物有关。

So it relates to those four fixed creatures.

所以它可能与四个固定星座相关，我认为这后来延伸到了四福音书，但这种关联可能早在十九世纪末或二十世纪之前就已存在。

So it might be related to the four fixed signs, and I think that became an extension related to the four gospels, but that probably was before the twentieth or even the late nineteenth century.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我还没有追溯过它的源头。

I haven't traced it back.

所有试图将占星术与《圣经》联系起来的尝试，都涉及大量对其中含义的推断——比如他们是否真的这么想，或者这种推断是否正确，又或者是否把原本不存在的意思强加于文本之上。但毫无疑问，过去一个世纪以来，类似‘天蝎座演变’这样的主题变得越来越普遍。

One of the things with all of the attempts to connect things of astrology in the Bible is it has to do with a lot of inferences about sort of reading into it whether this is what they thought And or whether that's a correct inference or whether it's sort of reading something into something that wasn't there, I don't But really certainly, over the past century that there's a bit more become more common motifs of the idea of like Scorpios evolving into

然后继续演变。

And then evolving.

这是另一回事。

That's a different thing.

是的。

Yeah.

正确。

Correct.

对。

Yeah.

或者凤凰之类的其他东西。

Or or a phoenix or what have you.

也许这以一种奇特而间接的方式，与天蝎座纹身的习俗有关。

Maybe that ties back interestingly in a weird indirect way to the Scorpio tattoo things.