占星术中交点的早期历史与含义

因此，这是一个有趣的平行现象：在早期的希腊化文本中，交点很少被提及。

And so that's an interesting parallel where the nodes are not mentioned very frequently in the early Hellenistic texts.

有一些参考文献可以追溯到公元前一世纪左右的早期出生图，尽管这张星盘可能直到公元一世纪才被绘制，但它确实包含了一个或两个交点。

So there are some references that go back pretty early in one of the early birth charts from like the first century BCE, although it may have not been cast until the first century CE, does contain one or both of the nodes.

从公元一世纪开始，多罗西厄斯偶尔提到过交点，但它们直到希腊化传统末期的雷托里乌斯时代（约六至七世纪）才开始被广泛使用，并真正全面融入占星体系。

And then there are sporadic mentions of the nodes from Dorotheus in the first century CE onwards, but, they don't start to get used and they're not fully integrated in the system in a major way until the time of Rhetorius at the very end of the Hellenistic tradition in like the sixth or seventh century.

而雷托里乌斯的情况并不明确：他只是在正式化某种早已存在的东西，还是只是更明确地表达出来？抑或到了希腊化晚期，传统本身已经发生变化，交点的重要性与显著性比以往更高？这正是我们研究雷托里乌斯时常遇到的问题。

And with Rhetorius, it's not really clear if he's just, formalizing something if he's just articulating something that was already there earlier and he's just making it more explicit or if the tradition had changed by that point, the late Hellenistic traditions that the nodes became more important and more prominent than they were earlier, which is often an issue that we have with Rhetorius.

但我所发现的希腊化传统中，当交点被提及时，主要有两种解释趋势：一种观点认为交点是不祥、令人不安或具有破坏性的，因为它们与一种‘自然秩序的中断’有关——当月亮遮蔽太阳时，白昼突然变暗，这似乎违背了自然规律。

But the two main trends that I've identified in terms of interpretations in the Hellenistic traditions when they are mentioned is one notion of the nodes being ominous and unsettling or disruptive due to being associated suspect with this notion of there being like this interruption in nature because it suddenly When the Moon eclipses the Sun, it becomes dark out in the middle of the day, which just seems like something that's almost outside of the natural order.

因此，这是一种关于交点的负面传统；而另一种传统则至少在雷托里乌斯时代出现：北交点与‘增长’相关，南交点与‘减少’相关，因为交点代表月亮纬度开始上升或下降的转折点。

So there's that part of the sort of negative tradition of the nodes, and then there's a secondary tradition that shows up by the time of Rhetorius at least of the north node having to do with increasing things and the south node having to do with decreasing things because the nodes represent the point where the Moon's latitude begins increasing and going upwards or decreasing and going downwards.

由此衍生出后来中世纪的传统：北交点与吉星结合时是吉利的，因为它增强其正面力量；与凶星结合时则不利，因为它强化了凶星固有的破坏倾向。

And then this leads to the later medieval tradition of us of saying that the north node is good with the benefics because it increases them and it's bad with the malefics because it increases their natural tendency towards maleficence.

而南交点与凶星结合时是吉利的，因为它削弱了凶星的破坏倾向；与吉星结合时则不利，因为它削弱了吉星的正面力量。这一观念后来成为西方中世纪占星传统中关于交点的核心关键词。

And the south node is good with the malefics because it decreases their natural tendency towards maleficence and it's bad with the benefics because it decreases their natural tendency towards beneficence, and that then becomes some of the primary keywords for the nodes throughout the rest of the medieval astrological tradition in the West.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以，呃

So And

同样的事情也发生了，你继续说。

the same thing happened go ahead.

抱歉。

Sorry.

但有趣的是，节点在早期希腊化传统中很少被提及，因此正如你所说，在早期印度传统中，节点同样在公元二世纪到六世纪的那三部早期文献中也极少被提到，但是

So it's just interesting though that the nodes aren't mentioned very frequently in the early Hellenistic tradition, and so it sort of makes sense that in parallel in the early Indian tradition, the nodes similarly, as you're saying, are not mentioned very frequently in those three early texts from like the second century CE through the sixth century But

它们在被称为‘行星安抚仪式’（grahashanti）的文本中却频繁出现，这些是行星祭祀或安抚仪式。

they're mentioned a lot in texts that have to do with what's called 'grahashanti', which are planetary rites or appeasement ceremonies.

从大约四世纪、五世纪开始，当寺庙开始兴建时，节点的视觉形象就开始出现在寺庙的浮雕上。

And then once the temples started being built in, let's say, fourth century, fifth century, all of the visual images of the nodes started to be produced on the limpals in the temples.

但那时明确将节点与罗睺和计都联系起来了吗？还是说罗睺和计都作为独立神祇被延续下来，而它们当时还未必与节点有关？

Is it the nodes for sure though that are being associated with Rahu and Ketu at that point, or is it Rahu and Ketu as separate deities that are being perpetuated that don't necessarily have anything to do with the nodes yet?

它们是分开的。

They're separate.

拉胡是。

Rahu does.

所以拉胡被认为是引发日月食的天体，而 Ketu 则被认为是一颗彗星或烟雾。

So Rahu is considered to be the eclipse former, but Ketu is just considered to be a comet or smoke.

Ketu 与此无关，真正相关的是拉胡。

Ketu has nothing to do with it it's really Rahu.

于是你就有了拉胡引发日月食的整个概念。

So you get this whole idea of the Rahu forming the eclipse.

后来，人们将 Ketu 加入这一传统，并说：哦，是拉胡和 Ketu 吞噬了太阳和月亮。

Later on, people will then add Ketu to that tradition and they'll say, Oh, it's Rahu and Ketu swallowing up the Sun and the Moon.

但最初，只有拉胡，他是那个头被斩断的恶魔，之后有了两个身体。

But initially, it's only Rahu and he's the demon whose head gets decapitated, and he then has two bodies.

但在印度占星术的早期传统中，Ketu 并不在星盘占卜之列，拉胡也不在。

But when you're dealing with Ketu in the early tradition of Indian astrology, Ketu is not in horoscopic astrology, neither is Rahu.

但它们确实被记载下来了，最初，罗睺被拟人化，与另外七颗行星一起被安置在寺庙和雕塑的门楣上。

But they do get written about and then first, Rahu becomes anthropomorphic and he is seated with the seven other planets in lintels, in temples, in sculptures.

到了六世纪末，计都开始被加入其中。

And then towards the end of the sixth century, Ketu starts to get added to it.

但伐罗诃米希罗撰写了《婆罗门四十八章》，这部著作被视为印度占星术和命盘占星术的经典之一，他还撰写了被称为《婆罗门集成》的汇编著作。

But Varahmahira, who wrote Brihajataka, which is considered to be one of the classics in Indian astrology and in natal astrology, also wrote what's called Brihatsamita, which is the compendium.

‘集成’就是汇编的意思。

Samita is a compendium.

在这部著作中，他谈论了很多内容。

And in that, he talks a lot.

在九个章节中，他详细讨论了这些行星的运行及其影响。

In nine chapters, he talks about the transits of these planets and what they're doing.

在关于罗睺的章节中，他大量论述了日月食，以及日月食在每个纳沙特拉、在各个星座中的作用，以及它们在印度不同地区的影响。

And in the chapter on Rahu, he talks a lot about eclipses and what eclipses do when they're in each nakshatra, when they're in the signs, how it works for the different areas of India.

同时，由于他本人也是数学家、天文学家和宗教人士，而这种矛盾一直存在，他在这一章中提到：人们说罗睺导致了日月食，但我们都知道这并不真实。

And at the same time, because he was also a mathematician and astronomer and a religious person, and this was always the conflict, he talks in this chapter about the fact that people say that Rahu caused eclipses, but we all know that's not really true.

他阐述了日食和月食的数学原理。

And he sets forth the mathematics of eclipses.

但他也说，我们必须安抚拉胡。

But then he also says, But we have to propitiate Rahu.

我们仍需尊敬他并安抚他，以免他伤害我们。

We have to still honor him and propitiate him so he doesn't damage us.

这确实是传统的重要组成部分。

So that is very much part of the tradition.

而在关于克图的章节中，全部讲的是彗星，因为克图就是彗星。

And then in the chapter on Ketu, it's all about comets because Ketu was a comet.

所以这一章讲的是有数百颗彗星，有些人说有数千颗彗星。

So it's all about the fact that there are hundreds of comets, some people say thousands of comets.

彗星实际上可以指任何天空中不属于行星的天体，这正是无形无相这一概念的体现。

Comets can refer really to meteors, to anything in the sky that is not the planet, so that's kind of like the whole idea of the formlessness.

因此，克图和拉胡一直是传统的重要组成部分，人们绘制了它们的形象并加以确立。

So the Ketu and Rahu were very much part of the tradition and were drawn and the images were set forth.

至于拉胡，你可以看看《雅瓦纳贾塔卡》中的图像。

And Rahu, you look at images, you have in Yavanajataka, for instance.

在最开始，平格里在第一页放了一张寺庙门楣的图片，上面是八颗行星。

In the very beginning, Pingree put in a picture on the first page of a lintel in a temple, and it's the eight grahas.

如果你仔细看，实际上这张图位于马萨诸塞州伍斯特的艺术博物馆，描绘了七颗行星加上拉胡。

And if you look at that, in fact, that is in Worcester in Massachusetts in the art museum, and it has the seven planets plus Rahu.

你会注意到，拉胡有一个巨大的头，其他所有行星的样貌都差不多。

And what you'll notice there is that Rahu has this huge head, so all the planets are kind of looking the same.

而在最后，拉胡被描绘成拥有一个极其巨大的头，这成了他一贯的造型。

And then at the very end, Rahu is pictured with this humongous head, and that's kind of how he always became portrayed.

他有着一个巨大的头。

He had this huge head.

后来当他们加入凯图时，凯图的底部呈蛇形，这象征着日食的形态。

And then later on when they added Ketu, the bottom of Ketu was like serpentine that was the imagery of the eclipse, that it was serpentine.

就像它实际看起来的样子。

It was like how it looked.

但你并没有涉及交点日食的占星学。

But you didn't get the astrology of the eclipses of the nodes.

事实上，你提到的拉赫托里乌斯对它们的描述，非常接近那些从七、八世纪开始出现的文本中的说法，比如帕拉沙拉的著作。

In fact, what you're saying in terms of how Rhetorius described them, that's very much how they were described in texts that started to appear, I would think, seventh, eighth century when you had Parashara.

帕拉沙拉的文本是第一个明确将交点列为宫位中的行星、星座中的行星，并纳入大运系统的著作。

Parashara's text was the first one that really had the nodes mentioned in it as planets in houses and planets with signs, and also with the dashas.

因为早期的大运系统并不包含罗睺或计都，而维姆肖塔里大运只是众多大运系统中的一种。

Because the early dashas didn't have Rahu in it or Ketu that wasn't Vimshottari Vimshottari is only one dasha system.

在你无法将交点纳入占星体系之前，是不可能有维姆肖塔里大运的，因为维姆肖塔里大运是基于九个行星周期的。

Until you could bring the nodes into your astrology, you couldn't have Vimshottari dasha because Vimshottari dasha is based on nine planetary periods.

在此之前，你有的是类似希腊占星中的行星主运周期，但其中并不包含罗睺和计都。

And before that, you had dasha periods like you have the planetary lords in Hellenistic astrology, but you didn't have Rahu and Ketu in it.

你有五个行星，还有上升点大运，所以一共是八个。

Had the five planets, And then you had an Ascendant dasha also, you had eight So

帕拉沙拉是交点被牢固融入印度占星传统的关键节点，从那时起，它们几乎被提升到了与行星同等的地位，成为‘格拉哈’——即七个传统可见天体之外，再加上罗睺（北交点）和计都（南交点）。

Parashara is the point where the nodes get firmly integrated into the Indian tradition and they at that point sort of get elevated almost to the level of planets or as grahas where you have the seven traditional visible planetary bodies and then you have Rahu, the north node and Ketu, the south node.

对。

Right.

而且关于普鲁士的问题，我知道帕拉沙拉总是一个有争议的话题。

And the thing is with Prussia, and I know Prashara is always such a controversial topic.

帕拉沙拉的年代是什么时候？

What's the dating on Parashara?

这就有争议了。

That's controversy.

一罐蠕虫？

A can of worms?

好吧。

Okay.

争议其实在于

Well, the controversy really is that

平格里是怎么断定帕拉沙拉的年代的？好吧，我们就直接说

When did Pingree date the Parashara, Well, let's just

在他的著作《占星术》中，平格里将其年代定为大约公元初和二世纪，分为两部分。

in his book Jyotishastra, Pingree dated it to about The first and second were in two parts.

他说，其中一部分可能是在公元50年到70年之间，而另一部分则大约在公元800年左右。

One, he said, was probably between June and seven '50, and then he thought the other section was by about 800.

之所以存在争议，是因为如果你查看平格里的文本，你会发现他描述了这些章节。

The reason it's controversial is if you look at Pingree's text, you will see that he describes the chapters.

他详细列出了他所拥有的《巴拉沙拉》手稿中的所有章节。

He tells you all the chapters of the manuscript that he has of Parashara.

但如果你查看现代版本的《巴拉沙拉》，你会发现其中多了大约二十个章节。

But if you look at the modern day texts of Parashara, there are like 20 more chapters in it.

因此，这些章节在历史上被陆续添加了进来。

So over the years, the chapters have been added to.

所以我们并不总是能确定哪些章节是哪个时代加入的。

So we don't always know which ones came in what era.

而且很多人把巴拉沙拉视为自己的导师之一，因此他应该早于公元六世纪。

And a lot of people talk about Parashara as one of their teachers, so he would have been prior to the sixth century.

所以这个人可能根本就不是同一个人。

So it might not even be the same person.

再说，这可能是传承关系，所以你会看到名字重复出现。

Again, it could be the lineage, so you see the name repeated.

因此，并不一定是在七世纪创作这些文本的人，就是瓦拉哈米希拉和其他印度占星家所提到的那个创作了相关材料的婆罗门。

So it's not necessarily that the person who produced these texts in the seventh century was the same Parashara that Varahumara and other Indian astrologers mentioned as having produced material.

所以很多内容是通过口传的。

So a lot of it is orally transmitted.

所以重点是，有一部关于七、八世纪（公元600到750年）的文本，其中提到了交点。

So the point is that there is this text about seventh, eighth century, 600 to seven fifty, and the nodes are mentioned in there.

还有那部分

And part the

鲁迪哈尔的问题也在于此。

issue with the Rudhyar also.

帕拉沙拉的问题在于，它像一些希腊化文本一样，被呈现为神明启示给国王或圣贤的智慧，帕拉沙拉也是以这种方式呈现的，对吧？

Part the issue with Parashara is that presented like some the Hellenistic texts were where they're presented as revealed wisdom to a king or a sage or something like that from the gods, and Parashara is kind of presented in that way as well, isn't it?

他被表现为一位老师，是的。

He's present as a teacher, yeah.

因为他们谈论的是帕拉沙拉作为老师，但这部文本直到很久以后才出现。

Because they're talking about Parashara as a teacher, but the text doesn't appear till much later.

那么，这意味着文本中的所有这些知识实际上被揭示过，却从未被写下吗？

So does it mean that all this knowledge that's in the text was actually revealed but never written down?

我们其实并不清楚。

We don't really know.

这似乎很有可能，因为在七世纪之前的所有占星家都没有在他们的星盘文本中使用罗睺和计都。

It seem likely because all of the astrologers prior to the seventh century were not using Rahu Ketu in their horoscopic texts.

对。

Right.

因此，不太可能在那之前就已提及罗睺和计都。

So it doesn't seem likely that you had Rahu Ketu mentioned prior to that.

所以我认为，至少包含罗睺和计都的这部文本的年代，正如平格里所说，可能在公元650年左右。

So that's why I think that the dating of at least the text that has the Rahu Ketu in it was probably, as Pingree says, somewhere between 06/1950

是的。

Yeah.

我只是想提一下，因为有些人会把帕拉沙拉这个人物当作真实存在过的历史人物，认为他生活在公元前一万年左右，而像平格里这样的人则认为，这是一部文本A的作者，大约在公元八世纪左右写成的。

I guess I was just mentioning that because sometimes people take the figure of Parashara literally and say this is a sage that lived like 10,000 BCE or something like that instead of somebody like Pingree is looking at this as this is a text A that was real person that wrote this text sometime around the eighth century.

所以，好吧。

So, Okay.

帕拉沙拉是黄道交点完全融入印度占星术的时候。

So Parashara is when the nodes get fully integrated in Indian astrology.

其中包含了详细的描述。

It's in There's delineations.

它也出现在十二分盘大运系统中，我认为交点被赋予了行运周期，那么罗喉和计都的大运周期一般是多长呢？

It's also in the Vimshudra Dasha system, which is I think the nodes are actually given time lord or dasha periods that last for how many long is the general period of Rahu or Ketu?

罗喉的大运周期是十八年。

Well, the Rahu period lasts eighteen years.

当然，这很有趣，因为日月食的沙罗周期正好是十八年，而交点穿越黄道的时间大约是十八点六年，所以这个数字相当有意思。

And of course, that's interesting because you get the Saros cycle of eclipses that are eighteen years, and you get the nodes going through the zodiac in about eighteen point six years, so that's kind of an interesting number.

而Ketu的大限是七年，这个时间更短，因为Ketu正是以这种方式被定义的。

And then the Ketu dasha is seven years that one's more quick because that's how Ketu started to become defined in that way.

对于那些深入研究印度占星术年代的人来说，另一部重要文本叫《Saravali》，据说大约成书于公元800年。

The other interesting thing for those who really are following all this Indian astrology dating, another important text is called Saravali, and that was supposedly about 800.

有些人认为它可能更早一些，属于八世纪。

Some people think it's a little earlier, eighth century.

其中也没有提到Rahu和Ketu，这就有点意思了。

There's no mention of Rahu Ketu in there either, so that becomes funny.

但后来，正如我跟你说过的，我所学习的《Phaladeepika》这部文本，大概成书于十三或十四世纪，那时已经受到了波斯和阿拉伯的影响。

But then later on, as I was saying to you, the text that I learned from Phaladeepika, that was probably around thirteenth, fourteenth century, and then you get the Persian Arabic influence there.

好的。

Okay.

我们先停一下，因为我还想专门谈一谈波斯影响和‘龙’这个概念。

Let's pause on that one just because I wanna do a whole separate digression about the Persian influence and the dragon thing.

对。

Right.

在《帕拉沙拉》中，你对哪些我们目前所知的内容感到可以讨论？比如关于节点的描述、它们所赋予的含义，或者它们在文本中是如何被概念化的？

Where in Parashara are you comfortable talking about any things that we know from Parashara, at least as far as we know with the text that we have about how it talks about the nodes or what significations it gives or anything along those lines in terms of how it's conceptualized in them or what meanings it's applying to them?

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，节点总是排在最后。

Well, I mean, the nodes are always last.

在帕拉沙拉之前，行星各自有不同的含义。

So before Parashara, the planets have different meanings.

有七颗行星，它们分别主宰七种感官，其中五颗行星主宰五种感官。

There are seven planets, they rule the seven senses, They rule the five planets rule the five senses.

然后你还会在星盘中看到不同的角色，比如国王、王后、王子。

And then you get different people in the cabinet, like the king, the queen, the prince.

你有这七颗行星。

You get the seven planets.

当你加入罗睺和计都时，它们通常被放在最后，并且总是被描述为与黑暗相关。

And then when you add the Rahu Ketu, they usually come at the end and they're always talked about in terms of darkness.

而 Ketu 作为彗星、无形式的概念，也是类似的情况。

And the idea of Ketu as the comet, the formlessness, is in a similar way.

Rahu 和 Ketu 通常都是非常凶煞的。

They're very malefic, Rahu and Ketu.

大多数时候，它们不被认为会带来任何好处，除非它们与吉星或吉宫的主宰星有联系，这时它们反而能形成非常积极的瑜伽。

Most of the time, they are not considered to do any good except if they are affiliated with good planets or good house rulerships, then they can form actually very positive yogas.

但首次将它们纳入大运系统来考量，这是一个非常重要的观点。

But the idea that they are for the first time looked at in terms of the dashas is a very important thing.

现在当你谈论时间主星时，例如，这个体系中是否包含星节点，还是不包括？

Now when you're talking about time lords, for instance, do you have the nodes in that whole system or it's not included?

星节点在时间主星体系中确实扮演着角色。

Nodes play a role in the time lord systems.

它们可能会被顺便提及，比如在主运中如果星节点被触发时会发生什么情况。

They might be mentioned offhand possibly as what in terms of what happens if a node gets hit in primary directions or something like that.

但总体来说，不包括。

But for the most part, no.

我认为，在我所知的任何主要时主系统中，直到中世纪时期节点通过波斯传统被整合进来之前，它们都没有发挥核心作用。

I don't think the nodes are used in any core role in any of the time lord systems that I know of until you get to the medieval period after the nodes get integrated through the Persian tradition.

我总认为，波斯传统是节点变得真正重要的源头，我们稍后可能会谈到这一点，等我们再多聊一点关于巴拉沙拉的内容之后。

I keep I keep thinking that the Persian tradition is the source of where the nodes become really important, and we'll get into that maybe in a second once we finish talking a little bit more about Parashara.

是的，巴拉沙拉是一本典籍。

Yeah, and Parashara is a text.

说来有趣，我常常避而不谈它，因为里面充满了各种混乱。

I mean, it's funny I kind of keep away from it a lot because of all the confusion that comes with it.

但巴拉沙拉的重要之处在于，它确实建立了大限系统。

But the important thing with Parashara is the fact that it does formulate the dashas.

节点被视为黑暗的，它们并不一定像我说的那样是吉的力量。

The nodes are considered to be dark They're not necessarily considered to be, like I said, benefic forces.

你知道，它们掌管地下以及所有那些糟糕的东西。

You know, they rule things like underground and all the nasty things, you know, that you have.

在印度占星术中，节点被视为困难、某种程度上混乱或不稳定的因素，这似乎是一个共同的主题。

That seems like a common theme in Indian astrology is that the nodes are treated as difficult and somewhat chaotic or unstable type factors to some extent.

你认为这在一般意义上是正确的吗？

Would you say that's true in a general sense?

是的，毫无疑问。

Yes, for sure.

而且在讨论它们时，它们总是被放在最后。

And they're always considered to be at the very, very end when you're talking about them.

比如在普鲁士，你会按照星期几的顺序来讨论行星：太阳、月亮、火星、水星、木星、金星、土星，然后才是罗睺和计都，因为它们是后来加上去的。

So in Prussia, for instance, you talk about the planets, you do it according to the days of the week: Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, then you get Rahu Ketu at the end because they were added on.

当谈到凶星时，帕拉沙拉认为太阳、土星、火星、下弦月都是凶星。

And then when you talk about the malefics, Parashara says the Sun, Saturn, Mars, the waning moon, they're all malefics.

而罗睺和计都，它们也变成了凶星。

And then Rahu Ketu, they also become malefics.

好的。

Okay.

所以帕拉沙拉把罗睺和计都归类为凶星吗？

So Rahu and Ketu are grouped together with the malefics in Parashara?

总是如此。

Always.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这一点很重要。

So that's important.

我的意思是，了解他们如何概念化交点及其在星盘中的功能，这一点很重要。

I mean, that's important to know in terms of how they're conceptualizing the nodes and their function in a chart.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的，他们主宰被排斥者。

Yeah, and they rule outcasts.

在现代占星术中看星盘时，他们大量借鉴了罗喉和计都主宰被排斥者这一观念。

When you're looking at a chart in modern day horoscopy, they take it a lot from the whole idea of Rahu Ketu ruling outcasts.

因此他们说，罗喉和计都可以主宰外国人，也可以主宰所谓的波希米亚人、反叛者，以及任何与众不同的人。

So they say that Rahu and Ketu can rule foreigners, it can rule quote bohemians, people that rebel, anybody who is different.

所以这就是拉胡和凯图被概念化的方式。

So that's kind of what Rahuketu was conceptualized as.

而且again，这与那个神话有关，因为拉胡和凯图不是行星，它们不是实体，没有质量，也没有形状，它们只是点，是月亮轨道与黄道相交的位置。

And again, that has to do with that myth because Rahuketu are not planets, they're not things they don't have mass, they don't have shape, they're points, they're where the path of the Moon meets the ecliptic.

所以你无法抓住它们。

So you can't hold on to them.

它们被视为影子，因为它们以一种你无法确切指认的方式出现。

They're considered to be shadows because they are appearing in a way that you can't put your finger on.

因此，正是由于这个原因，它们在这些文本中的解读方式大多如此，因为它们并非真实存在。

So that's a lot of the way that they do get interpreted in these texts because they're not real.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

它们不具备行星或恒星所拥有的那种物质属性或特质。

They don't have the kind of material qualifications or qualities that the planets do or stars do.

也许我们应该稍微回溯一下，你之前提到过一点，就是描述一下黄道交点和天文学方面的东西。

Maybe we should backtrack a little bit, which you touched on a little bit, describing the nodes and the astronomy a little bit.

交点是月球轨道与太阳轨道（黄道）相交的点。

So the nodes are the point on the ecliptic where the path of the Moon crosses the path of the Sun.

是的。

Yeah.

基本上就是这样。

And that's basically it.

北交点是月球穿过太阳轨道并开始向上或向北移动的时候。

The North node is when the Moon passes the path of the Sun and begins moving upwards or or north, I guess you could say.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而南交点是月球穿过太阳轨道（即黄道或黄道带）并开始向下或向南移动的时候。

Whereas the south node is when the Moon passes the path of the Sun, which is the ecliptic or the zodiac, and begins moving downwards or south basically.

对吧？

Right?

嗯。

Mhmm.

这样对吗？

Is that correct?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

完全正确。

Exactly.

因此，由于交点代表太阳路径与月亮路径的交叉点。

So as a result of that, the nodes, because they represent the intersection or the crossing over point between the path of the Sun and the path of the Moon.

当新月或满月发生在黄道附近且靠近交点时，你总是知道日食或月食即将在该点附近发生，因为当月相靠近交点时，月亮就会遮蔽太阳，基本上会从太阳表面经过，或者至少具备这种可能性。

When you get a new Moon in the zodiac or a full Moon, which occurs close to the nodes, you always know that an eclipse is gonna take place close to that point because when the lunations occur close to the nodes, that's when the Moon will obscure the Sun and basically move move across the face of it or at least it has the potential to.

对。

Right.

是的

Yeah.

所以当你看星盘时，如果发现这些交点非常接近太阳和月亮，你就知道这是一次日月食，而不仅仅是一次普通的朔望月，而且它们每六个月发生一次。

So when you look at a chart, when you see that those nodes are very close to the Sun and the Moon, you know there's an eclipse rather than just a normal lunation, and they occur every six months.

这也解释了为什么拉胡在古代被视为一个令人恐惧的恶魔，因为他们知道每当日月食来临，世界就会陷入黑暗。

And that's also why the whole idea of Rahu became this feared, this demon that they considered Rahu to be a demon because they knew that when eclipses came, things went dark.

当然，关于日月食的神话认为，日月食预示着国王的死亡或新国王的诞生，总是伴随着重大事件的发生。

And of course the myths surrounding eclipses that eclipses meant the death of a king or announced the birth of a king, they were always used to have some major event happen along with it.

从某种意义上说，这正是我们现代占星学中使用它们的方式。

And in a way, that's how we use it in modern times if we're using it astrologically.

对。

Right.

我们来看看日月食。

Let's see, eclipses.

在希腊文献中，希腊化时期的占星家们确实将交点称为‘蚀点’，正是基于这个原因。

And sometimes in the Greek texts, the Hellenistic astrologers actually refer to the nodes as the eclipsing places as a result of that.

这可能是一些有趣的相似之处，比如希腊传统或至少希腊传统中某些部分与印度传统之间的相似，其中对交点的处理更为消极，瓦伦斯就是一例。

And this may be I mean, some of the interesting parallels between the Hellenistic tradition or at least some pieces of the Hellenistic tradition and the Indian tradition where the nodes are treated more negatively is Valens.

瓦伦斯有一章著名的关于起始占星术的内容，他提到不要让月亮靠近交点，或让月亮与交点形成困难相位，尤其是度数上非常接近的合相、刑相或对冲相位。

There's this one famous chapter in Valens where he talks about inceptional astrology, and he talks about not putting the nodes, the Moon close to the nodes or the Moon making a hard aspect to the nodes, especially a close one by degree like a conjunction, square, or opposition.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他接着展开了一段非常长且非典型的悲观论述，显然是基于他个人的经验，他说——这是公元二世纪的话——要小心不要开始任何事情。

And he goes on this very long and uncharacteristically pessimistic rant about the nodes evidently based on his personal experience where he says, and this is in the second century, he says, beware of starting anything.

不要出海。

Do not sail.

不要结婚。

Do not marry.

不要开会。

Do not have meetings.

不要开始任何事情。

Do not begin anything.

不要种植。

Do not plant.

不要引入。

Do not introduce.

简而言之，什么都不要做。

In short, do not do anything.

嗯。

Mhmm.

已经开始的事情将被视为不稳固或容易以糟糕的结局收场。

What has been started will be judged insecure or prone to come to a bad end.

嗯。

Mhmm.

它将是一件令人遗憾的、不完整的、会招致惩罚的、痛苦的且无法持久的事情。

And it will be something regrettable, incomplete, subject to penalties, grievous, and not lasting.

如果有人在这几天开始发展某项业务，该业务将破产、带来麻烦、遭受惩罚、容易失败，并成为绊脚石。

If someone seems to have begun the development of some business in these days, the business will go bankrupt, will be troublesome, subject to penalties, easily ruined, and a stumbling block.

即使那些恰好位于这些位置的吉星，也完全不会带来任何好处。

Not even benefics which happen to be in these places do anything entirely good.

因此，即使不参考命盘，只要任何人避开月亮当前经过黄道升交点的时期，就不会犯错。

Therefore, even without consulting a natal chart, if anyone guards against the current transits of the Moon through the ascending node, he will not make a mistake.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以这就是其中一件事：正如我所说，希腊占星传统中有两种流派，其中一种对交点持非常悲观的看法，尤其是当它们与日月星体相关时——我认为这是因为这些是发生日月食的地方，光明会被某种程度上熄灭，因此它们被视为极不稳定的。

So that's one of the things is like there's the like I said, these two traditions in the Hellenistic tradition, and one of them is just is a very pessimistic take on the nodes, especially when associated with the luminaries, I think because those are the eclipsing places where the the lights get sort of extinguished so to speak, and they treat them as very unstable.

这种传统几乎让我联想到后来在吠陀占星中看到的情形，后者也将交点视为某种负面或有问题的因素。

And that tradition almost reminds me more of what you end up seeing eventually in the Vedic tradition, which also seems to treat them as more negative or problematic in some way.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这还与时间有关，因为交点确实被用作预兆，人们将日月食视为负面力量，因为正是在日月食发生时，他们才真正看到交点的作用显现。

I think what also reading from has to do with the timing of the fact that the nodes were in fact used in terms of omens and in terms of looking at eclipses as negative forces because that's really when they saw the nodes come to fruition when you had the eclipses.

早在公元前二世纪，就已有文献提及交点。

And way before, I mean, in the second century, there were texts that had the nodes mentioned.

因此，择日占星术或非星盘占星术这一整套概念，在印度传统中也有非常明显的区分，它们的使用方式与你阅读瓦伦斯时所描述的完全一致。

So the whole idea of electional astrology or just general astrology that is not horoscopic, those are the two threads that are very distinct also in the Indian tradition that they were used in the same way you're reading Valens.

现在有很多文本正在被翻译。

And there are a lot of texts that are being translated now.

《伽尔伽·萨米提塔》正在被翻译。

Garga Samhita is being translated.

这是一部来自公元二世纪的文本，比尔·莫克和一些人正在共同整理它。

This is a text from the second century that Bill Mauck and a few people are putting together.

但这些文本主要涉及天象预兆、出行安排和事件规划，因此人们也必须敬奉神灵、安抚神灵，以获得行星的祝福，从而顺利行事。

But these are texts that are dealing with omens and are dealing with taking trips and planning events, and that was also one of the reasons why they had to honor the deities and appease the deities as well so that they could do things and have the blessings of the planets.

所以，这似乎与希腊占星术的传统一致，即它花了很长时间才融入星盘体系，因为人们一直都知道交点的存在。

And so, it seems like it's the same tradition in Hellenistic that it took a while for it to get into the horoscope as well because you always knew that the nodes were there.

至于月尾（Ketu）代表彗星、流星或某种无形之物，我不确定这在希腊传统中是如何运作的，但在印度传统中，这确实是明确的观念，因为这正是它的核心所在。

In terms of Ketu being the comet or meteors or something formless, I'm not sure how that works in terms of the Hellenistic tradition, but that was the definite tradition in India because that's what it was all about.

没错。

Right.

那么，关于交点或者在《婆罗门》等文本中交点的含义，我们还能更确定地提到些什么吗？

So is there anything else we need to mention about the nodes or getting into the meaning of the nodes in texts like Parashara that we can say more securely?

将交点几乎与土星或火星联系起来的传统，其来源是什么？

Where does the tradition of associating them almost with being Saturn like or Mars like come from?

我不知道这在《婆罗门》原文中是否明确，但在我向你展示的那本教材里，清楚地写着：罗睺像土星，计都像火星。

You know, I don't know if it's in Parashara per se, but I do know in the text that I learned from as I showed you, it's very clearly written that Rahu acts like Saturn and Ketu acts like Mars.

我猜这 somewhere 在普鲁士的文献里。

I'm assuming it's somewhere in Prussia.

普鲁士的文献太庞大了，我无法掌握里面每一个细节。

Prussia is so big that I don't know every little thing that's in there.

我还没读过普鲁士文献里的每一页内容，抱歉。

I haven't read every little thing of Prussia, I apologize.

但在《帕拉迪皮卡》这部文本中，明确提到他从《布里亚帕拉沙拉霍拉沙斯特拉》中学习，因此可以知道，这个传统中明确指出：罗睺像土星，因为它运行缓慢、阴暗，而土星象征延迟与阻碍，所以罗睺非常像土星。

But in the text of Paladeepika, which specifically says in there that he learned from Briyaparashara Horashastro, so you know it's that tradition, they say specifically that Rahu acts like Saturn because also it's slow and it's dark and Saturn was given to delays and obstruction, so Rahu is very much like Saturn.

在十二主运系统中，土星是十九年，罗睺是十八年。

And in the Vimshottri Dasha system, Saturn is nineteen years and Rahu is eighteen years.

而Ketu像火星，它们在维姆肖特里达沙系统中都是七年，因此它们确实有这种相似性。

And then Ketu is like Mars, and they are both the Vimshotti Radasha system seven years, so they do have that similarity.

而且最初它像彗星，类似于火星，如果你把火星想象成一个以爆炸为特征的行星，那么一切都像是在爆炸。

And also because originally it was like a comet, it was like Mars, things just exploding if you think of the whole imagery of Mars as this explosion oriented planet.

因此，这一点非常明确，这就是其中一个关联属性。

So it is very clear that that's one of the affiliations that you get.

在后续进行解读时，我发现把Ketu看作火星、Rahu看作土星会很有帮助，但这又是另一个话题了。

And later on when you are doing interpretation, I find it helps a lot to look at Ketu like Mars and Rahu like Saturn that's a whole other story.

但是的，这一点非常明确，这就是他们将其关联的其中一个方面。

But yeah, it's quite clear that that's one of the things that they affiliated it with.

当然，还有其他一些方面。

And then others, other things of course.

正如我所说，土星、Rahu和Ketu都与被放逐有关。

Like I said, Saturn Rahu and Ketu had to do with being an outcast.

它们就像是行星万神殿中的被放逐者。

They were like the outcasts of planetary pantheon.

他们可以说处于这个体系的最末端。

They were on the very end of the scale, so to speak.

你给我发了一些《Phaladeepika》的命盘解读，这本书大约成书于十三到十六世纪，对吧？

And you sent me some delineations from Phaladeepika, can I which is dated somewhere from the thirteenth to the sixteenth century?

我可以把这些内容分享到屏幕上吗？

Is it okay if I share some of these on the screen?

哦，好的。

Oh, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

所以这稍微晚一些，但能让你了解你所说的，这可能是帕拉沙拉传统发展出的后续演变。

So this is a little bit later, but this gives you an idea of where And you said this is maybe an outgrowth or sort of later development of where the Parashara tradition started going.

是的。

Yeah.

他明确指出，那正是他学习过的文本之一。

He says specifically that that is that that he was one of the texts, you know, that he learned from.

好的。

Okay.

所以这是第八章的内容。

So this is from chapter eight.

它说第25颂：如果出生时罗睺位于上升星座，此人将寿命短暂，拥有财富与力量，并在上肢遭受蛙类疾病。

It says sloka 25, if at birth Rahu occupies the lagna, which is the the rising sign, the person concerned will have a short life, possess wealth and strength, and will suffer frog diseases in the higher limbs of his body.

这有点混乱。

That's a little mixed.

真奇怪。

Weird.

短寿，这意味着某种剥夺生命的东西，但接着又说拥有财富和力量，然后身体会生病，这像是第一宫的含义。

Short life, so it's like something that's depriving life, but then it says possesses wealth and strength, but then it'll be diseased in his body, which is like a first house type signification.

然后继续说。

Then it goes on.

它说，如果一个人出生时罗睺位于第二宫，他的言语会显得可疑或不真诚，因为言语是印度占星学中第二宫的象征之一，嗯。

It says, the person who is at his birth Rahu in his second house will be dubious or insincere in his speech, since speech is one of the significations associated with the second house in Indian astrology, Mhmm.

会遭受口腔或面部疾病，心地柔软，通过君主获得财富，并且易怒而快乐。

Will suffer from disease in the mouth or face, will be tender hearted, will get wealth through his sovereign, and will be wrathful and happy.

好的。

Alright.

所以罗睺，是的。

So Rahu Yeah.

你继续说。

Go ahead.

不，我是说，当你读这些文本时，它们全都混在一起了。

No, I'm saying that they all get very mixed up when you read all these texts.

他们会把

They'll throw in

正面的和是的，

Positive and Yeah,

一些宫位和类似的东西混进去。

in some of the houses and things like that.

但在这里，他们开始形成一种传统，认为罗喉在第三宫时力量强大，罗喉在第六宫时也被认为是强大的。

But here, they start the tradition of Rahu in the third house being strong, and Rahu in the sixth house is supposed to be strong.

根据传统，第三、第六、第十和第十一宫是罗喉力量强大的位置。

Third, six, ten, and 11 by tradition are supposed to be the places where Rahu is strong.

他们不是用星座来描述，而是用宫位来描述，这也是一个有趣的地方。

And they don't delineate them in terms of sign, they delineate them in terms of the houses, is another interesting thing.

所以你说这与吉星和凶星在哪些宫位表现良好的传统有关？

So you said this was tied in with the tradition of which houses the benefics and malefics do well in?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

那是什么来着？

What is that again?

第三、第六、第十和第十一宫被认为是所谓的增长宫或上升宫。

Third, sixth, tenth, and eleventh are considered to be the houses of what's called upachaya houses or growth houses.

有些人认为第三宫和第六宫非常不好。

And some people take them, the third and sixth, as being very bad.

第六宫也被称为恶宫，因此具有双重含义。

The sixth house is also what's called a Dushtana house, so it has a dual meaning.

第十宫也被称为角宫，因此也有另一种含义。

The tenth house is also what's called a Kendra house, an angular house, so it also has another meaning.

但第三、第六、第十和第十一宫通常是放置凶星的理想位置。

But the third, sixth, tenth, and eleventh are usually where you want malefic planets to be.

如果在第三宫看到它，它会赋予你强大的力量。

What it does also is if you see it in the third house, it will give you something strong.

如果在第六宫看到它，它会赋予你强大的力量，但也会让你必须去争取，因为第六宫是疾病宫。

If you see it in the sixth house, it's going to give you something strong, but it's also going to give you something that you have to fight for because the sixth is the house of illness.

正因为它是疾病宫，为了克服某些东西，你必须先有需要克服的坏事物。

So because it's the house of illness, in order to overcome something, you have to have something bad to overcome.

所以，如果你在第六宫这样的宫位中看到罗喉、计都，或火星、土星这样的凶星，甚至太阳也被视为凶星，你就能克服困难，但前提是你必须先有需要克服的障碍。

So if you have the nodes or a malefic Mars Saturn or the Sun even is considered a malefic, in a house like the sixth house, you are going to be able to overcome things, but you have to have something to overcome to begin with.

所以这变得复杂了，但其中是有逻辑的。

So it gets mixed, but there's a logic to it.

这其中有一种奇特的逻辑。

There's a strange logic to it.

但即使在这个传统中，罗喉和计都也无法完全替代行星的作用，因为行星之间有友谊和敌对的关系。

But even in this tradition, Rahu Ketu can't always fill the same shoes, so to speak, as the planets because the planets have relationships like friendships and enemies.

罗喉和计都并不属于这个范畴，而且很多大运系统也并非全部基于包含罗喉和计都来构建。

Rahu Ketu doesn't fit into that category, and a lot of the dasha systems are not all based on having the nodes in them.

我的意思是，维姆肖塔里只是众多体系中的一个，并不是唯一终极的体系。

I mean, Vimshottari is only one system it's not the be all and end all.

很多人也使用其他体系。

A lot of people use other systems too.

所以在很多这些体系中，你不会看到拉胡和凯图。

So you won't get Rahu Ketu in a lot of those systems.

在某些体系中，你只会看到拉胡而看不到凯图，因为它就像烟雾一样。

In some, you get Rahu and not Ketu because it's like smoke.

但当你后来谈到拉胡和凯图分别是头部和尾部时，在印度则被视为上部和下部，拉胡是头部或身体的上端，而凯图是下端。

But later on when you talk about Rahu Ketu being the head and the tail or in India just at the top and the bottom, Rahu is this head or the top of the body, but Ketu is the bottom.

由于凯图没有眼睛，无法看见，也不具备逻辑思维，因此在讨论相位和行运时，人们会将其排除在外。

So because Ketu has no eyes and doesn't see and doesn't think logically, they take it out of the running when it comes to aspects and transits.

凯图在行运中从不被提及，但拉胡会被提及。

Ketu is not mentioned in transits, but Rahu is.

所以即使他们使用了凯图，仍然将其视为与其余行星不平等的存在。

So even though they're using Ketu, they're still looking at it as not having equality with the rest of the planets.

所以这是一个很有趣的概念，即月北交点（Ketu）实际上是一种难以定义的东西，在很多方面比月南交点（Rahu）更让人感到恐惧。

So it's an interesting concept that Ketu is really something that you can't define or sort of scares you much more than Rahu in a lot of ways.

我认为这也是关于前世的观念的来源——你必须解决那些Ketu未能让你解决的问题，这类似于现代占星中南交点的解释。

And I think that's also where it all came from about your past life is there and so you have to work out whatever Ketu didn't allow you to work out, that kind of thing that happened with the South Node in modern day delineations.

所以这很有趣，因为行运确实被使用了。

So it is interesting because the transits are used.

我的意思是，人们也常犯一个错误，以为只有大运才用于预测，但实际上在印度占星中，行运非常重要，非常重要。

I mean, people make a mistake also to think that only dashas are used in predictive work, but the transits are very important in Indian work, you know, very important.

但总的来说，人们认为凶星在某些宫位表现得更好，而吉星则在另一些宫位表现得更佳。

So But the general thing though was that there's certain houses that the malefics were said to do better in in general, and there's certain houses that the benefics were thought to do better in.

通常来说，由于交点被视为凶星，它们也被赋予了在某些宫位表现更佳的特性。

And generally speaking, the nodes started being assigned because they were malefics to also being doing better in certain houses.

是的。

Mhmm.

是的。

Mhmm.

对的。

Yeah.

完全没错。

Exactly.

好的。

Okay.

那我们回到这里的星盘解读上来吧。

So let's go back to the delineation here.

罗睺落入第三宫，会让命主生性骄傲、与兄弟不和、意志坚定、长寿且富裕。

Rahu in the third house makes the person born proud, hostile to his brothers, strong willed, long lived, and wealthy.

这还挺有意思的。

So that's interesting.

与兄弟不和正好对应第三宫的象征意涵。

Hostile to his brothers is a third house signification.

如果罗睺落入第四宫，那么命主会愚蠢迟钝、总是惹来伤悲、寿命不长，且鲜有快乐。

If Rahu should occupy the fourth house, the person born will be a fool, will cause sorrow, will be short lived, and will be rarely happy.

所以，我们再次看到一种延续，这里对它的描述更偏向负面，至少比正面描述更一致。

So again, we're seeing kind of continuation where it is treating it more malefically, at least more consistently than not.

是的。

Yeah.

那我们来看一下。

So let's see.

第26颂：如果在一个人出生时，罗睺位于第五宫，他说话时会有鼻音，没有子女，心肠坚硬，并遭受胃痛。

Sloka 26, if at a person's birth Rahu should be posited in the fifth house, he will have nasal touch in his speech, will be childless, he will be hard hearted and suffer from stomachache.

第五宫是子女宫之一，如果罗睺位于此宫，则意味着无子。

So fifth house is the house of one of the houses of children and and being childless if you have Rahu there.

这显然是一个更消极的命盘解读。

So that's obviously more of a negative delineation.

如果罗睺位于第六宫，此人将受敌人困扰，或被恶星压迫。

If Rahu's in the sixth house, the person will be born the person will be troubled by his enemies or oppressed by evil planets.

他将遭受肛门溃疡之苦。

He will suffer from an ulcer in his anus.

他会富有且长寿。

He'll be wealthy and long lived.

所以它既对第六宫的传统主题——敌人——给出了负面描述，也对健康问题有负面解读，但随后又提到了财富和长寿这样的正面结果。

So it's giving negative delineations for both of the traditional topic of enemies in the sixth house as well as some sort of negative delineation for health matters as well, but then something positive coming from wealth and longevity.

对。

Right.

你一开始会遇到这些可怕的事情，但你有意志力去克服它们。

So you start out with these horrible things, but you have the willpower to kind of conquer them.

我的意思是，任何古典文献的文本都非常简短。

I mean, like any classically written text, they're all very short.

你知道，它们实际上涵盖了非常多不同的内容。

You know, they they really encompass a lot of different things.

而且还有不同的翻译版本。

And there's also different different translations as well.

我的意思是，我采用了这个译本。

I mean, I took this one translation.

如果我仔细阅读一遍，我可能会用完全不同的方式来翻译它。

It's very possible if I read through it, I would translate it a lot differently.

但是

But

是的，我只是想快速地了解一下它的大致意思。

yeah, I'm just trying to get a sense of it though really quickly.

你会发现，即使你去印度，提到拉胡和 Ketu，那些多年前一听到这两个名字就会非常紧张的人。

You find that Rahu Ketu, even if you go into India and you mention Rahu Ketu, people who years ago would just get very nervous if you talk about them.

就连供奉拉胡和 Ketu 的寺庙，也不是随便就能进去参拜的。

And even the temples dedicated to Rahu Ketu, it's not like just freely you go in there and you worship.

所以它们仍然被视为恶魔般的力量。

So they are really still considered to be these demonic forces.

尤其是因为拉胡在早期的日食传统中就是恶魔，这种‘别提拉胡’的想法一直都没有消失。

And especially because Rahu was the demon in the early tradition of the eclipses, it doesn't go away, that whole idea of, Oh, don't talk about Rahu and

对。

Yeah.

我的理解是，罗喉和计都的运期传统上并不被认为是特别好的运期，也不太有趣。

And I mean, from what I understand, the Rahu and Ketu periods are not traditionally considered to be great dasha periods to go into necessarily or very fun ones.

但随着岁月流逝，进入现代，所有这些都会以不同的方式被重新诠释。

Well, again, everything then starts to get translated differently as the years go by and you go into modern times.

罗喉持续十八年，你不会说，这整整十八年都很糟糕。

So Rahu is eighteen years, so you're not going say, Oh, the whole eighteen years is bad.

如果你的罗喉落在第三、第六、第十或第十一宫，或者罗喉与吉星同在，那么这个运期可能是好的，因为你吸收了吉星的特质，或者受益于吉宫的主宰力量。

And if you have, let's say, Rahu in your third, sixth, tenth, or eleventh, or let's say Rahu is with a benefic, the dasha period could be good because you're taking on the qualities of the benefics or you're taking on the quality of the lordship of a good house.

由于罗喉像土星一样，有时只是缓慢而持久。

And because Rahu is like Saturn, sometimes it's just slow and drawn out.

但罗喉极其极端。

But Rahu is extraordinarily extreme.

我的意思是，交点星之所以被注意，正是因为它们代表极端，你可以从极高跌至极低，变得非常强迫。

I mean, that's the thing with the nodes is that they became noted for the extremities, so you can go from high to low, you can be very compulsive.

罗喉可能非常强迫。

Rahu can be very compulsive.

再说，头部的象征意义是它无法消化，却不停地吃进东西，却没有消化系统。

Again, the symbolism of the head that doesn't digest it keeps eating and taking in things, but it doesn't have a digestive system.

所以对于拉胡，你必须清楚自己的界限在哪里。

So with Rahu, you have to know when your boundaries are.

因此，在现代占星学或心理咨询中，你会建议人们努力设定这些界限，否则你可能会被成瘾的特质席卷而去。

So in modern astrology or counseling, you try to tell people to try to set those boundaries because otherwise you can get swept away in terms of the addictive quality.

凯图持续七年，像火星一样迅速，非常迅速。

Ketu is seven years like Mars it's quick, it's quick.

你可以从高处跌至低谷，或从低谷跃至高峰。

You can go from high to low or low to high.

我的确见过有人在凯图大运期间一切被彻底抹去，也见过有人从低谷一跃而起。

I mean, I've seen people in Ketu Dasha have things just completely wiped out, and I've seen people go from low to high.

我经常在讲座中用大量惊人的例子来讲解这一点。

I mean, I lecture on that all the time with amazing examples.

我认为，随着人生经历的积累，身处现代，你拥有了更多选择，不再像生活在小村庄里，由你的占星师为你规划人生道路那样了。

And I think that as you go on through life and are in modern times and you have more choices, it's not like living in a little village with your astrologer who sets your life path for you.

你使用希腊占星术，所以你知道，在处理时间时，必须对这些翻译进行扩展或现代化。

You use Hellenistic astrology, so you know yourself that when you're dealing with times, you have to take these translations and sort of extend it or modernize them.

古代文本通常以极端的最好或最坏情况来描述事物，而你应该理解，还有许多不同的缓和条件可以考虑，以调整或生成实际的解读，但其目的是向你传达某种潜在的原则。

Mean, ancient texts usually frame things in terms of extreme either worst or best case scenario and you're supposed to understand that there's many different mitigating conditions that you can take into account to modify or produce the actual delineation, but it's trying to convey some sort of underlying principle to you.

对。

Right.

所以这里有一个小例子，对于不熟悉的人，这是从Solar Fire中提取的，大约是我们开始时的星盘，这是一种传统的南印度方形星盘。

So here's a little, for those unfamiliar with it, from Solar Fire, just a chart of today approximately when we started and this is like one of the traditional South Indian square charts.

在右侧，它显示了十二分盘和小限，展示了我们刚才讨论的一些周期，比如火星主运持续七年，然后是罗喉主运持续八年，以及你提到的 Ketu 主运持续七年。

And over on the right, it has the Vimshodri dashas and bukhtis and it just shows you some of the periods that we're talking about where there's like a a Mars general period that lasts for seven years, and then there's a Rahu period that lasts for eight eight years, and a Ketu period that lasts for seven years as you were saying.

嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

那么我们回到命盘解读。

So back to the delineation.

你去查阅帕拉沙拉或帕拉迪皮卡——我用的文本，尤其是帕拉迪皮卡，会详细说明大运，比如罗睺大运、计都大运、月亮大运中会发生什么，以及各个小运阶段的预期。

You go to Parashara or Paladeepika, the text I use, I mean, they will give you really Especially Paladeepika tells you about the dashas, what to expect in Rahu dasha, what to expect in Ketu dasha, what to expect in Moon dasha, and then what to expect in all the sub periods of the dashas.

所以这些内容相当明确，但你必须把它们当作一般性原则，同时结合命盘中所有因素的实际状况，才能真正得出关于大运或大运期间星体运行的结论。

So they're pretty clear, but then you have to take that as a general rule and you always have to look at what everything is doing in the natal chart in order to really come to a conclusion about what the general dasha is or general transit.

所以关键在于，我认为罗睺和计都是一种强化因素，它们接触的任何东西都会被放大。

So that's kind of the thing is that because Rahu and Ketu are, I think, intensifiers everything they come in contact with gets just intensified.

罗睺与木星相合，会让人同时拥有巨大的财富和巨大的贪婪，很多情况下都是这样运作的。

Rahu with Jupiter give somebody who has enormous wealth and enormous greed at the same time, so it kind of works like that in a lot of respect.

那么我们再回到《帕拉迪皮卡》。

So back to Phaladeepika.

我想简单提一下其他一些命盘解读，让大家了解一下印度传统在这方面的思路。

So I just wanna briefly mention some of the other delineations to just give people an idea of where the Indian traditions are going with this.

书中说，当罗睺位于第七宫时，此人会因与女性的阴谋而失去财富。

So it says, when Rahu is in the seventh house, the person will person will lose his wealth through intrigues with women.

所以基本上就是关系方面的问题。

So basically like problems with relationships.

如果罗喉位于第十宫，此人将短命，会做不洁之事以及其他问题。

If Rahu occupies the tenth house, the person will be short lived, will do impure acts and other issues.

如果罗喉位于第九宫，此人言辞不利。

If Rahu happens to be in the ninth house, the person will be unfavorable in speech.

他将成为氏族首领、村庄校长或城市市长，并会做出不义之举。

He will be head of his clan, the headmaster of a village or mayor of a city, and will commit unrighteous deeds.

这种不义行为是由于第九宫与宗教关联而产生的吗？

Is that notion of like unrighteousness as a result of like religious associations with the ninth house?

是的。

Yeah.

这是正直与达摩的宫位。

The house of righteousness and dharma.

正义的宫位。

House of righteous.

是的。

Yeah.

达摩。

Dharma.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

罗睺在第十宫会使命主出名。

Rahu in the tenth makes the native famous.

此人会面临有限的问题，喜欢干涉他人事务，不做善事，且无所畏惧。

The man will have a limited number of issues, will engage himself in others' business, will not do any good act, and will be fearless.

那就是唐纳德·特朗普的罗睺在第十宫。

That's Donald Trump has Rahu in the tenth.

好的。

Okay.

这真有趣。

That's funny.

所以

So

你看这是怎么运作的。

you see how that works.

好的。

Okay.

如果罗睺位于第十一宫，此人将富裕，子女不多，寿命长，但会患有耳疾。

If Rahu will be in the eleventh house, the person born will prosperous, will not have many children, will be long lived, and will suffer from ear disease.

这很有趣

So this is interesting

因为耳朵。

because ears.

这是为数不多的正面描述之一，你之前说过第十一宫是你提到的那些改善宫位之一，也就是所谓的Upachaya宫。

This is one of those positive delineations, and you said the eleventh was one of those those houses you were talking about that is in a an improving or like an Upachaya house.

上升宫。

Upachaya.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

问题是，即使罗喉带来好的方面，也总会有某种代价。

The thing is that even with the good things that Rahu gives, there's always a catch to it.

我的意思是，它不会给你木星那样的纯粹好运。

I mean, it's not gonna give you Jupiter.

它不会全是好的。

It's not going be all good.

总会有那么一点副作用。

There's always going be a little catch to it.

所以当然，你会发现：好吧，你长寿，你有这些成就，但你会有耳疾。

So of course, going to find, Okay, you live a long life, you do this, but you're going to have ear trouble.

它不会是完美的。

It's not going to be perfect.

所以这就是他们看待这些凶星的方式。

So that's very much how they look at these malefics.

你不可能毫发无损地脱身。

You're not getting off scot free.

凡事都有代价。

There's always a price

为每一件事都要付出代价。

to pay for everything.

所以它说你会富裕，但孩子不会多。

So it says you'll be prosperous but will not have many children.

在印度占星术中，第十一宫是代表子女的宫位吗？

And is the eleventh one of the places of children in Indian astrology?

第五宫才是。

The fifth is.

第五宫是子女宫。

The fifth is the house of children.

如果你的第十一宫有罗喉，那么第五宫就有计都。

If you have Rahu in the eleventh, you have Ketu in the fifth.

但因为在印度占星术中，行星会影响对面的宫位或对面的星座。

But also because in Indian astrology, the planets aspect the opposite house or the opposite sign.

当然，在这个传统中，如果没有孩子被认为是不好的，因为家族的后代极其重要。

And of course, in that tradition, if you don't have any children, it's not considered a good thing because the progeny in your family is very, very important.

对。

Right.

罗喉和计都不像其他三颗行星——火星、木星和土星——那样有特殊的相位影响，但它们不仅影响其所处的宫位，还影响其对面的宫位。

So Rahu and Ketu don't have special aspects like three of the other planets do, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, but they do not just affect the house that they're in but also the house they're opposite to.

是的。

Yeah.

此外，罗喉也被赋予了其他含义。

Well, Rahu is also given.

当然，不同的传统有不同的说法。

Again, there's different traditions.

有些人认为拉胡会影响它所在位置的第五和第九宫，因此它和木星一样具有特殊相位。

Some people look at Rahu as aspecting five and nine places from it, so it's got the same special aspect as Jupiter has.

好的。

Okay.

我还遇到过一些人认为 Ketu 也有相位，但我学的是 Ketu 无法形成相位，因为它看不见。

And then I have known some people to take Ketu, but I was taught that Ketu cannot aspect because Ketu cannot see.

在梵文中，'相位'一词是 'drishti'，意思是'看'或'知晓'。

And the word for aspect in Sanskrit is drishti, which means to see or to know.

相位的核心理念就是你'看见'了另一颗行星，将那股能量带入你的生命中。

That's the whole idea of an aspect that you're seeing another planet, you're bringing that other energy into your life.

我认为在任何古老的传统中，人们都是这样理解相位的。

I think in any ancient tradition, that's how they saw aspects.

所以如果你有 Ketu 或南交点，它们无法看见，因为它们有头，却没有眼睛。

So if you have Ketu or the South Node, they can't see because they have a head, they don't have eyes.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

这大概就是它的运作方式。

That's kind of how it works.

那我们回过头来看。

So let's see going back.

罗睺位于第十二宫时，此人会秘密地从事罪恶行为，挥霍无度，并会患上水肿等疾病。

Rahu in the twelfth house, the person concerned will be intent on committing sinful acts secretly, will spend much much, and will suffer from dropsy and the like.

那么在印度占星术中，第十二宫是否被视为与隐秘相关的宫位？

So is the twelfth treated as like a house of of in Indian astrology?

是的。

Yeah.

秘密的敌人，隐秘。

Secret enemy, secrecy.

是的。

Yeah.

所有这些。

All that.

好的。

Okay.

同样的事情。

Same thing.

那么它继续下去，开始对南交点凯图进行描述。

So then it goes on and it starts doing delineations of Ketu, the south node.

它说，出生时凯图位于上升星座的人会忘恩负义、不快乐，且喜欢搬弄是非。

It says, those born with Ketu in the rising sign will be ungrateful, unhappy, and bearing tales against others.

他会成为被放逐者，失去地位，身体畸形，并与邪恶之人为伍。

He'll be an outcast, fallen from his position, and will have a deformed body and will be associated with the wicked.

凯图位于第二宫会使命主缺乏学识和财富。

Ketu in the second makes the native devoid of learning and riches.

所以第二宫的负面命盘描述。

So negative delineation for the second house.

他的言辞将非常粗鄙，且面容阴险。

His speech will be very vile in quality and he will have a sinister look.

他将总是靠在别人家吃饭。

He will ever be eating at others' tables.

所以这几乎是将南交点位于第二宫描述得比北交点位于第二宫更加负面，你觉得呢？

So that's almost like an entirely negative or much more negative delineation of south node in the second house almost than it was for north node in the second house, think.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

但第二宫正如我所说，本身也不太适合星盘中的交点。

But the second house is Like I said, the the second house is also not supposed to be necessarily a great house for the for the nodes.

对于交点而言。

For the nodes.

比如在第三宫，如果往下看第三宫，它说了一些好事，但最后又说，哦，但他会失去一个兄弟。

As in the third, and if you go down now to the third house, says good things, but at the end it says, Oh, but he will lose a brother.

所以这些都是好的，但同时也有一些坏的事情。

So they're all good, but there's something bad as well.

所以它说，南交点在第三宫赋予 natives 长寿、力量、财富和名声。

So it says, Ketu in the third house confers on the native long life, strength, wealth, and fame.

这个人会生活幸福，他的妻子也会吃上好食物。

The person will live happily and his wife will eat good food.

他会失去一个兄弟。

He will lose a brother.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

明白了。

Got it.

我们来看看。

Let's see.

而 Ketu 是

And Ketu is

很多时候代表失去，因为 Rahu 像一个贪婪的、吞噬一切的头部或身体上部，Rahu 是获取事物，而 Ketu 是失去事物。

like loss a lot of times because Rahu sort of like this voracious, greedy head or top of the body, so the Rahu is acquiring things whereas Ketu is losing things.

因为身体的下半部分是排泄废物的地方，所以它会消耗、会失去。

Because again, the bottom half of the body is where the waste material goes, so it wastes, it loses.

而且像火星一样，它会彻底摧毁，因此很多定义都会包含‘失去’：第四宫，他会离开祖国，诸如此类的情况。

And like Mars, it obliterates, so a lot of times these definitions will have loss: fourth house, he will leave his native country, things like that.

所以，如果你把 Ketu 理解为某种被切断、失去或分离的象征，那么很多这类定义都能成立。

So if you take that Ketu as having to do with something getting cut off or loss or separation, a lot of those definitions will hold through.

而且，这同样适用于大运。

And the thing is that it's the same with the dashas.

同样，如果它与吉星相关，或位于吉宫，即使是有挑战的大运时期也不会太糟。

Again, if it's associated with a good planet or it's in a good house, even the difficult dasha periods will not be so bad.

因此，你总是需要根据与其他行星的关联来判断行星的位置。

So you always have to judge the placement of the planets in terms of the other planets that they're associated with.

因此，这一点在你如何从与其他行星的友好或关联关系中获得意义或定义时变得非常重要。

So that becomes very important in terms of how you acquire meaning or how you acquire your definition from the others that you're friendly with or affiliated with in that sense.

对。

Right.

好的。

Alright.

所以文本中说，天体落在第四宫，此人将失去土地、车辆、母亲和幸福。

So the text says, Ketu in the fourth house, the person concerned will lose lands, vehicles, mother, and happiness.

他将离开祖国，居住在异国他乡，并生活在边境地带。

He will leave his native country and dwell in a foreign place and live at the border of another.

天体落在第五宫，出生时会导致子女损失、胃病以及鬼怪带来的麻烦。

Ketu in the fifth house at a person's birth will cause loss of children, disease in the stomach, and trouble from goblins.

此人将变得邪恶、阴险。

The native will become evil minded and wicked.

土星在第六宫时，此人将非常宽宏大量，并具备最优秀的品质。

Ketu in the sixth house, the person concerned will be very magnanimous and possess the best qualities.

他将获得永恒的名声、坚定的意志和崇高的权威，击败敌人，并实现自己的愿望。

He will obtain everlasting fame, firmness, and high authority, destroy his enemies, and realize his wishes.

这真是一个非常第六宫的解释。

That's a very sixth explanation.

是的。

Yeah.

再者，那是第三、第六、第十宫。

Again, that's third, sixth, tenth.

对。

Yeah.

第六宫呢，你知道，它是关于敌人的宫位，对吧？在希腊占星中，凶星落在第六宫，比如，这种情况是否也一样有利？

The sixth house is again, you know, the house of Is it like that also in Hellenistic that the malefics in the sixth house, for instance, that's a house of enemies, does it work well?

它们在印度占星传统中是否也像这样有效？

Do they work well as they do in Indian tradition?

这有点复杂。

It's kind of mixed.

这取决于具体情况，理论上在公元四世纪的保卢斯看来，如果凶星位于吉相且符合派系偏好时，比如土星在日盘的第十二宫，或火星在夜盘的第六宫且位置良好，那么它们在这些宫位中也可能带来积极的指示，我想。

It depends on the malefics theoretically sometimes in Paulus in the fourth century if they're in a good sign and if they're of the sect in favor, if it's like Saturn in a day chart in the twelfth house or Mars in a in a night chart in the sixth house and it's otherwise well positioned, then they can be said to give good indications in those placements, I guess.

是的。

Yeah.

因为这些正是凶星的喜乐宫位。

Just because those are the planetary joys of the malefics.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这有点类似。

This works kind of similar.

好的。

Okay.

我们来看看。

Let's see.

第六宫。

Sixth house.

第七宫，出生时有凯图落在第七宫的人会遭受不敬，与不良女性交往，受肠道疾病困扰，并会失去妻子和生命力。

Seventh house, the person at birth who has Ketu positive in the seventh will suffer disrespect, seek the company of bad women, will be afflicted by disease relating to the bowels, and will suffer loss of wife and vital power.

所以确实像你所说的，凯图更多带来一种失去的感觉，对吧。

So definitely more sense of like loss with Ketu like you were saying Right.

或者放手某样东西。

Or letting go of something.

嗯。

Mhmm.

如果凯图落在第八宫，出生者将短命，经历挚友的分离，卷入争执，遭受武器伤害，并在所有事业中遭遇失望。

If Ketu is in the eighth house, a person born will be short lived, will suffer the separation of his dear friends, engage in quarrels, will meet with injury from a weapon and disappointment in all his undertakings.

所以第八宫的第一个描述是短命，因为在印度占星术中，第八宫与长寿密切相关。

So the eighth the very first delineation was short lived because the eighth in Indian astrology has to do with like long long longevity.

嗯。

Mhmm.