占星学中的第五宫：象征意义

所以这两个都是白天星座。

So both of those would be day signs.

或者用现代术语来说，有些人会谈论外向和内向之类的概念。

Or in, like, modern terms, sometimes people talk about, like, extroversion versus introversion or what have you.

阴阳是其他人喜欢用来形容这一点的另一个概念。

Yin and yang is another one that other people like to apply to it.

我是不是漏掉了其他一些？

Are there others that I'm missing?

没有。

No.

我觉得这些基本上全了。

I think that's most of them.

好的。

Okay.

所以重点是，只要这种相似性意味着两个重叠的元素在表达类似的事物，那就像是在创造一个与你自己相似的东西。

So the point is, though, is to the extent that that's creating a similarity of having two overlapping things that are indicating similar things, then it's like you're creating something that is like yourself.

我认为，第五宫的另一个重要方面是关于孩子，因为你实际上是在创造一些外貌与你相似的实体。

And that's, I think, the other thing that's important about the fifth house both in terms of children because you're literally creating, like, physical beings that look like you.

但同时，如果你以更偏向智力或艺术表达的方式来理解第五宫，你是在创造一些反映你精神本质的东西，某种意义上复制了与你相似或具有相似特质的事物。

But then also creatively, if you're doing it in more of an intellectual or artistic expression of the fifth house, you're creating something that looks like your spirit and sort of replicating something that has a similarity to you or carries a similar essence in some sense.

这说得通吗？

Does that make sense?

是的。

Yeah.

我真的很喜欢这个观点。

I actually really love that point.

我的意思是，我记得我曾看过一些星盘，其中上升宫和第五宫正好有你提到的那些错误星座，它们围绕第五宫主题形成了概念性作品。

I mean, I know that I was looking at, for instance, some of the charts where there were error signs just like you were talking about on the Ascendant and the fifth house, and how they created conceptual work around fifth house topics.

然后我就想，哦，这是因为这是风象星座。

And then I was like, oh, it's because it's an air sign.

所以他们的创意产出是概念性的。

And so their creative output is is conceptual.

这属于思维的领域。

It's in the realm of the mental.

而他们本身也是如此，我。

And that's who they are too, I.

E。

E.

上升点。

The Ascendant.

所以，这当然是他们会产生的一种东西。

So of course, that's the kind of thing that they would produce.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

正是如此。

Exactly.

所以是的。

So yeah.

所以我认为这是另一个非常核心的问题，我们必须思考，因为它再次为我们提供了一个切入点，来理解的不仅是儿童，还有如何创造出在身体或智力上看起来像你这样的东西。

So I think this is another really core thing that we have to think about because it, again, gives us an access point for understanding not just children, but also understanding how it may have broader implications about creating something that looks like that looks like you, basically, either physically or intellectually.

当你将其与其他宫位对比时，这一点就更加清晰了，比如第三宫，它只具备其中一个相似点，那就是上升星座和第三整宫星座具有相同的性别。

And, you know, that becomes more clear when you contrast it with the other houses because, like, the the third house, for example, it only has one of those points of similarity, which is that whatever the rising sign is and whatever the third whole sign house is share the same gender.

它们要么都是阳性星座，要么都是阴性星座，但这意味着它们只具备这一个接触点。

They're both gonna be either masculine signs or they're both gonna be feminine signs, but that means they only have one of those points of contact.

在元素方面，它们并不相同。

And in terms of element, they are not the same.

它们的元素并不相同。

They they don't have the same element.

其他一些宫位也有类似的情况，比如你只会得到一个相似的特质，例如第四宫共享的是模式，或者第二宫，相邻的宫位则没有任何共同特质。

And it's kind of similar with some of the other ones in terms of that overlap where you'll get, like, one similar quality, but then you'll have like, for example, the fourth house has modality is the thing that it shares in common, or the second house, adjacent houses share no qualities in common.

它们没有，比如性别、模式或元素上的共同点。

They don't have, you know, gender or modality or element.

但第五宫就不只是有一个，而是有两个。

But then the fifth house, it's like you don't just have one, but you have two.

所以这两个宫位之间有非常相似的地方。

So there's something like very similar about those two houses.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

我觉得这是个很好的观点。

I think that's a great point.

而且，我想补充一点，你之前提到创造外貌上完全像你的孩子，这在你有亲生孩子时当然成立。

And, you know, I wanted to note as a sub point to that, you were talking about, you know, creating children that literally look like you, which of course is the case when you have biological children.

但即使领养孩子或其他情况，这种相似性也不会完全消失，因为你依然能看到一些相似之处，比如在第一宫和第五宫相关的养育方式上，你仍然将自己的本质带入第五宫的主题中。

But it doesn't really completely break down even if one adopts or things like that because you can still see similarities for instance, in first and fifth house things such as like one's parenting style, where you're still bringing your own essence into fifth house topics.

所以我只是想提一下，因为我知道有些人会想：那非亲生孩子呢？

So I just wanted to kinda make that note because I figured some people would be like, well, what about not biological children?

但你知道，你在处理第五宫事务时仍然存在某种共性。

But, you know, there's there's still a commonality in how you're going about fifth house things.

对。

Right.

当然。

Absolutely.

所以我想提一下，因为这正是为什么整体宫位制的概念结构也很重要的原因——最初宫位的含义部分源于这些概念，即当用星座本身作为宫位来确立星盘中的各个区域时，星座之间的关系如何相互关联。

So I want to mention that because that's part of the why the conceptual structure also with whole sign houses is important because some of the original significations underlying the houses were drawing on some of these concepts of how the signs of the zodiac relate to each other based on their relationship when you're using the signs themselves as houses to establish those sectors in the chart.

虽然从角宫、次宫的角度思考时，确实有一些元素是共通的，这也是象限宫位制的特性，但如果你脱离了整体宫位制，就会忽略掉宫位之间的相似性，以及宫位之间的整体星座关系。

And while there's some element that carries across with just thinking about it in terms of angularity, succeedancy, which is also a property of, like, the quadrant houses, you're missing this, like, other element about the similarity between the houses as well as the the whole sign aspect between the houses when you take it outside of that whole sign framework.

因此，这也是我认为同时考虑整体宫位制和象限宫位制很重要的原因之一。

And so that's one of the reasons why I think it's important to take both whole sign houses into account as well as quadrant houses.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

因为如果没有全宫体系，你就不会明显看到这一点。

Because you don't you don't see that jump out, yeah, without the wholesome house framework.

对。

Right.

好的。

Alright.

那么我们继续讨论主要含义。

So let's move on from our primary signification.

因此，生育和繁衍是这一主题下出现的其中一个方面，因为当你开始谈论孩子以及这个主题如何在一个人的生活中体现时，会有许多不同的表现形式。

And so procreation, reproduction, one of the topics then the subsets that comes up within this context, because there's many different manifestations of this once you start talking about children and how that topic plays out in a person's life.

其中一个出现的是女性的生育能力与男性的性活力。

One of them that comes up is fertility in women versus virility in men.

例如，这具体体现在一个人是否容易受孕，或者是否面临受孕困难，以及由此在一个人生活中衍生出的种种相关问题。

And, for example, that comes out specifically in, like, the ease in which a person is able to conceive versus if a person has difficulty conceiving and then all of the adjacent things that can grow out of that in a person's life.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

你能看出来。

You can see that.

是的。

Yeah.

当某人非常多产时，比如我们在举例时会看到的那样，行星组合或第五宫及其宫主星的相位会体现出来，这种多产指的是非常容易生育、有很多孩子。

Some some of the planetary combinations or aspects to the fifth house or fifth house ruler when someone is really prolific, as we'll see in some of our examples when we do the examples, prolific in terms of, you know, having children very easily, having lots of children.

而当涉及到那些难以生育的人时，第五宫的因素有时会显示出一些阻碍，他们可能一生都不孕，或者长时间无法生育。

And then you can see some some blockages sometimes with fifth house factors when it comes to people who have trouble having children or they're either infertile, you know, for their whole life or just for a long time.

他们生育孩子所需的时间比普通人长得多。

It takes them a long time to have children compared to average.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

或者你会看到像尼克·卡农这样的例子，他后来会提到，他有12个不同的孩子。

Or you'll have, like Nick Cannon is one of our examples later who has, like, 12 different children, for example.

所以，比如拥有许多孩子， versus 比如只拥有一个孩子，或者因为无法克服的生育问题而没有孩子。

So, like, having lots of children versus, let's say, having just one child or having no children if there's fertility issues that that can't be overcome.

嗯。

Mhmm.

或者根本没有生育孩子的意愿，这也可能在星盘中体现出来。

Or having no desire to have children, which can also show up in the chart.

是的。

Yeah.

我们会谈到一些例子，关于那些主动选择不生育的孩子自由人士，这种选择实际上是他们生活或重大哲学决定的一部分。

There were some examples we'll get into about people that are child free who choose to not have children deliberately and where that's actually a major part of their life or a major philosophical decision.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

所以，是的，仅通过第五宫你就能看到很多有趣的东西。

So, yeah, it's interesting what you can see just with the fifth house.

显然，星盘中还有其他因素会影响一个人是否容易或困难地生育孩子，但第五宫能反映出很多相关信息。

Obviously, there's other factors in the chart that go along with, you know, one's biological ability to have children with ease or with difficulty, but the fifth house can show a lot of those.

是的。

Yeah.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

这就是我们找到这些信息的地方。

It's the place where we find that.

好的。

Okay.

因此，当人们无法生育时，有时会涉及到收养这个话题，或者在其他情况下也可能是收养。

One of the topics then that can come up then sometimes when people can't have children or in other instances can be adoption.

所以，如果一个人，尤其是在辅助生殖技术出现之前，无法受孕，有时他们会选择收养；或者即使没有生育问题，人们也可能因为完全不同的原因选择收养。

So if a person, especially before, like, fertility treatments, couldn't conceive, sometimes they would resort to adoption or there can be other instances where a person adopts even if they're not having fertility issues for completely different reasons.

我想强调的一点是，虽然第五宫主要与你拥有孩子或亲生子女相关，但它更广泛地代表了你生活中与孩子有关的总体主题。

And one of the points I want to make is just while the fifth house does relate primarily to you having children or biological children and things like that, It also more broadly signifies the topic of children in your life in general.

如果有人选择收养，那么他们的养子女也会出现在这个人第五宫的星盘中。

And if somebody chooses to adopt, then their adopted children will show up in their the person's fifth house.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

是的。

Yeah.

这是你的孩子。

It's your children.

不管他们是通过什么方式来到你身边的，只要是你的孩子，就会出现在第五宫。

However, you know, however they got to you, it's your children are in the fifth house.

是的

Yeah.

这一点会最明显地体现出来，因为当一个人决定领养或发生类似情况时，他们的第五宫会开始出现重要的星象过渡和激活。

And and that'll be seen most clearly because the person will start having like tran important transits and activations of their fifth house in like at the time that they decide to adopt or or different things like that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

是的

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

其他子话题可以包括怀孕以及怀孕的难易程度。

Other subtopics can be things like pregnancy and how easy a pregnancy is versus how difficult.

有些人怀孕时特别顺利，一切都轻而易举，而另一些人则会遇到严重问题，甚至在某些情况下怀孕会危及生命。

It's like some people just magically have super easy pregnancies that go by and it's just like a breeze and other people run into major issues or even in some instances life threatening issues during pregnancy.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

虽然这些有时会出现在身体健康的宫位，比如第一宫或第六宫，但第五宫本身也能体现你养育孩子的体验。

And while those sometimes shows up some in, you know, the physical health houses, like the first or sixth, yeah, fifth itself can show, like, what your experience is of having children.

所以，你知道，这不仅指孩子出生后他们陪伴在身边的时候，也包括实现这一目标的过程。

And so, you know, that's not just after you have the children and they're around, but also the process of getting to that point, I.

呃。

E.

怀孕。

The pregnancy.

是的。

Yeah.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

我们最近的一个例子是，我跟一个人聊过，可能是在最近的一个工作坊里遇到的一名学生，他们身边有亲戚或亲近的人在生育方面遇到困难，结果他们自己承担了孕育孩子的角色，或者说是——

One of our recent examples, I talked to somebody, maybe it was a student in a workshop recently that it was like their was like a sibling or or there was somebody related to them or that they knew closely that was having trouble having children, and they ended up carrying a child or being a what's the term for

什么？

that?

代孕？

Surrogate?

对，代孕。

A surrogate.

所以当你为别人当代孕母亲时，还另有一个案例，是某人的第十宫或第二宫与此相关，因此他们做代孕部分是因为经济困难，把它当作一种工作方式。

So when you're like a surrogate for somebody else, and there was a separate surrogate instance where it was like somebody's I think it was their their tenth house or their second house was tied in with it, and so they did surrogacy partially as a as like a work thing that all set it like a difficult financial circumstance.

嗯。

So Mhmm.

怀孕这个话题在不同人的生活中可能会以各种复杂或独特的方式出现，但通常会涉及第五宫，这也是它在星盘中显现的地方。

There can be many different ways that pregnancy can come into play as a topic in different sometimes like either complicated or unique ways in a person's life, but it will often involve the fifth house, and that's where it'll show up in the chart.

对。

Right.

当然。

Absolutely.

对。

Yeah.

当这些情况与第二宫或第十宫相关时，观察起来很有趣。

It's interesting to see those when they're when they're tied into the second or the tenth.

我上大学时有个朋友卖了很多卵子。

I I had a friend in college who sold a ton of her eggs.

为了上大学、负担得起学费，我认识的人中有些生了孩子来换取经济支持。

I had, you know, half children around somewhere just to get to college and be able to afford college.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

最近有个故事，说有个人的卵子从1993年左右开始冷冻，后来解冻并成功生育，这可能是历史上冷冻时间最长的卵子生育案例。

There was a story recently about someone whose eggs were unfrozen from 1993 or something like that wasn't there, and it was the longest case of having a child that was born from frozen eggs in history or something like that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yes.

随着现代科技的发展，第五领域的一些进展很有趣。

It's interesting the developments in the fifth house realm that have come with modern technology.

不过我得想一想，卵子或胚胎能冷冻多久，这终究会有一个极限。

Although I have to think that breaks down at some point, how long you can freeze eggs and stuff or embryos.

我不知道。

I don't know.

也许有一天，就像人们能从两千年前的柏拉图那里生出孩子一样，也会有人这么做。

Maybe it'll be someday the equivalent of if people could have Plato's baby or something like that from two thousand years ago, there would probably be people that do that.

所以，我们这个时代也会有人这么做，我不知道。

So there's going be somebody from our time period like that where I don't know.

我们走着瞧吧。

We'll see.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

第五宫正在出现许多新的变化。

There are many new iterations of the fifth house happening.

当然。

Definitely.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，我们稍后会看的一个星盘涉及医学进步，有时会出现一些真正新颖的东西。

Well and also one of the charts we'll look at later is with medical advances, there's sometimes really new things.

比如，那个在小报上出名的人，叫Octomom，她生了几个孩子来着？

Like, for example, the person that was known in the tabloids is, like, Octomom that had a what was it?

比如八个不同的孩子。

Like, eight different children.

那是因为新的生育技术而出现的独特的第五宫现象。

That was like a unique fifth house thing due to new fertility treatments.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

如果没有新技术，这种情况几乎不可能发生。

That was definitely something that wouldn't happen often at all without new technology.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

所以不仅是怀孕，还有分娩，顺产和难产之间的区别。

So pregnancy but not just pregnancy, but also like giving birth, the ease of childbirth versus like if it's really difficult.

正如我们所说，还有孩子的数量，比如很多孩子和只有一个孩子的情况。

There's also, as we said, the number of children, like lots of children versus just one.

关于孩子的数量，古代占星术中有许多不同的方法试图预测这一点。

While the number of children there are a lot of different techniques in ancient astrology that attempt to tell this.

我觉得用这些方法来确定孩子的确切数量，很难有很高的把握。

I feel like it's a tricky thing to tell with, like, a number of with with an amount of certainty.

比如，我对一些这些方法有点怀疑。

Like, I'm a little skeptical about some of those techniques.

不过，我们确实看到一些案例，比如我们的星盘示例中，有些人有很多行星落在第五宫，或者有些人木星落在第五宫。

Although, certainly, we see instances where some couple of our chart examples have, like, lots of planets in the fifth house or, like, some some of them have Jupiter in the fifth house, for example.

我想我们有两个例子，它们都显示有很多孩子。

I think we have two examples of that that have, like, a lot of a lot of children.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得，通过第五宫或整个星盘的极端情况，更容易看出孩子多还是少。

I feel like you can see, you know, the the abundance of children or the lack of children much more easily with the fifth house or in the chart in general on the outer extremes.

我不确定。

I I don't I don't know.

当情况更普通、更平均时，就很难说得具体了。

It's harder to be specific when it's more average, more in the realm of average.

对。

Right.

但我们的其中一个例子后来提到，甚至还有人为什么会有这么多孩子的动机。

But, like, one of our examples later because there's even motivations for, like, why a person has lots of children.

比如我们稍后会谈到的一个例子，埃隆·马斯克的第五宫有木星，他至少有十二个孩子，或者更多，差不多一打左右已知的孩子。

Like, one of them that we'll talk about later is, like, Elon Musk has Jupiter in the fifth house, and he has at least 12 or something more than almost a dozen or around a dozen known children.

可能还有更多。

Like, there might be more.

而他的一部分理由是，第五宫（孩子）和第八宫（死亡与寿命）的守护星都在一起。

And part of his rationale, he has the ruler of the fifth house of children and the eighth house of death and mortality.

他提出的一些动机是，他认为人口减少将导致灾难、世界末日之类的后果。

And and some of one of his stated motivations is he thinks that population decline is gonna lead to disaster or the end of the world or something like that.

所以，他有着明确的动机，想要多生孩子，原因是他对灾难或其他类似事情感到担忧。

So it's like he has this motivation of stated motivation of wanting to have many children as a result of being fears about catastrophes or other things like that.

对。

Right.

当然。

For sure.

尤其是现在，避孕手段非常可靠，过去很多人会生很多孩子。

And especially nowadays, I mean, birth control was was so reliable, you know, many people had lots of lots of children.

而如今，你可以更清楚地看到这种极端差异，因为很多人会主动选择（或至少试图选择）自己要生几个孩子。

And so nowadays, you can see the spectrum or the outer extremes a little bit more clearly because, you know, many people choose how how many children they or try to choose anyway, how many children they have.

所以，现在当人们生很多孩子时，通常背后都有特定的动机和原因。

So usually nowadays, when people have lots of children, there's a specific reason involved with the person's motivation.

是的。

Yeah.

这引出了另一个有时会发生的情况：有人在生完孩子后，女性会结扎，男性会做输精管切除术，以确保不能再生育。

And that brings up one other thing that sometimes happens is like right after a person has a child, they will get their tubes tied or a male will get snipped so that they can't have any more children.

尽管我们没有这样的例子，但我相信当时一定有某种有趣的天象在发挥作用。

And That's probably even though we don't have examples of that, I'm sure that would be some interesting There would be an interesting transit or something that was being activated at that time.

当然。

For sure.

是的。

Yeah.

可能是土星的影响。

Probably Saturn thinks.

是的。

Yeah.

这引出了下一个话题：想要孩子和不想要孩子之间的区别。

Well, that brings up the next one, which is like wanting to have children versus not wanting children.

尤其是在现代，不生育变得越来越普遍，出现了一类人，他们通常自称‘无孩族’，将有意识地不生育视为一种明确的选择。

And especially in the modern age, it's become more common and there's like a category of people that usually refer to themselves as child free where being deliberately child free is like a deliberate choice.

我见过一些这样的不同例子。

And I've seen a a few different examples of this.

我们稍后会展示一个由听众提交的案例。

We'll have one that we'll show later from a a patron that was sent in.

但我注意到，当这种情况发生时，土星通常都会参与其中，因为土星的基本功能是否定或拒绝某些事情。

But I've noticed that usually Saturn is involved oftentimes when this is happening because Saturn's basic function is to negate or to say no to things.

有时当土星与第五宫有关联时——并非总是如此，但有时它会拒绝与孩子相关的话题，或以某种原因在孩子议题上制造挑战。

And sometimes when Saturn is connected with the fifth house, not all times, but sometimes it can say no to the topic of children or it can raise some challenges in the topic of children for some reason.

但有趣的是，在这些情况下，有时这并非出于环境因素，而是当事人主动做出的决定，即说‘不’。

But it's interesting in these cases that in some instances, it can be not something that's circumstantial, but instead it can be a deliberate choice on the part of the native of saying, no.

我因为各种原因不想要孩子。

I don't want to have children for various reasons.

是的。

Yeah.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

不好意思。

Excuse me.

我也看到土星通常也与此有关。

And I've seen Saturn usually involved in that as well.

无论是完全选择不生育的人，还是刻意选择只生一个孩子的人，这都是一种特定的现象，因为人们常常会问：‘你为什么不多生几个呢？’

Whether it's completely child free people who are doing it deliberately, or people who are deliberately choosing to have just one child, which is also like a specific phenomenon because often people are like, well, why don't you, you know, have more?

他们本可以有兄弟姐妹。

They can have siblings.

但他们却说：不。

And they're like, no.

我就只想生一个。

I just wanna have one.

我也看到土星有时也与此有关。

And I've seen Saturn sometimes involved in that too.

也许它的位置不是特别有利，但确实如此。

Maybe not a little more constructively placed, but yeah.

是的

Yeah.

发送她星盘的那位客户，米歇尔·奥伯多夫，第五宫有重要的星体配置，比如上升点的守护星。

The patron that sent in hers, Michelle Oberdorf, had important placements in the fifth house, like the ruler of the Ascendant.

但土星位于第二宫，与第五宫形成了刑相位。

But then there was a square square from Saturn in the second house to the fifth.

她发给我一篇她写的论文，我认为是硕士论文，里面她采访了多位女性，了解她们选择生育、不生育或选择无子女的原因。

And she sent me like this entire I think it was a master's thesis that she wrote where she interviewed different women about what their motivation was for having children for not having children basically or for being child free.

我们稍后会更深入地讨论这个话题，并分析她的星盘，但其中也存在一个有趣的谱系，涉及多种不同原因，解释人们为何选择无子女。

So we'll talk about that more and look at that chart later on, but there's an interesting spectrum there for a number of different reasons of why people choose to be child free as well.

对。

Right.

而且星盘中对此的关注程度也很重要，这更多是关于一个人是否经常思考这个问题，而不是仅仅随口说‘我不想要孩子’，而这件事并未成为他们人生身份的核心部分。

And how much there is an actual focus on it in the chart, so it's more of something that someone's thinking about a lot versus just like an offhand, like, no, I don't think I want children, but it's not something that's like a major part of their life identity.

对。

Right.

或者其他人是因为没有遇到合适的伴侣，或者这根本不是他们生活中的重点，有时当一个人的星盘中其他宫位有大量行星，而第五宫并不突出时，这种情况就会出现。

Or others where it's circumstantial of just not meeting the right partner or something like that or it just not being a major focus which sometimes just comes up if a person's much more focused on if the chart especially has a bunch of planets in other areas of the chart and the fifth house just doesn't emphasize.

有时候，这只是因为这个人出于各种原因对这件事不感兴趣或不关注。

Sometimes it's just like not something the person's interested in or focused on for different reasons.

嗯。

Mhmm.

确实如此。

Definitely.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

那么继续，另一个在生了孩子、经历整个怀孕及其他相关事情后会涉及的话题是育儿。

So moving on, another topic that comes up once you've had children and you have the whole pregnancy and of every other thing is parenting.

我认为德梅特拉从某处引出的一个含义是为人父母所经历的喜悦或挑战。

And some of the one of the significations I think that that Demetra pulls out from somewhere was the joys or challenges experienced in parenthood.

我觉得这是一个非常好的观点，因为人们在为人父母方面的经历差异很大，毕竟每个人都不一样，有些人真的非常享受这个过程。

And I think that was a really good one because there's a wide range of different experiences that people have in terms of being parents, in terms of, you know, not everybody's the same, and there's there's sometimes extremes of people that really enjoy it.

对他们来说，这是一种极大的快乐，甚至是生活中最美好的部分；而相反的极端情况则是，有些人并不享受育儿，或者育儿过程不顺利，甚至成为他们生活中最具挑战性的部分？

And it's just like a pleasure, and it's like the best part of their life versus, let's say, the opposite extreme where the person, like, doesn't enjoy it or it doesn't go well or it's the most challenging part of the person's life for some reason?

没错。

Right.

当然。

For sure.

尽管我认为育儿通常被默认为一件积极的事情，但其中的差异其实非常大。

There is a huge spectrum even though I think it is more presented as, like, a given that this is gonna be a positive thing.

我们之前讨论过第五宫，它确实是一个普遍积极的宫位，但仍然会受到行星位置、宫主星以及其他与第五宫相关的宫位因素的影响而产生各种变化。

And we did talk about the fifth house as, you know, a generally positive house, which it is, but there's still all these modifications from, you know, planetary placements and rulerships, you know, and bringing other house topics tied in with the fifth house and so forth.

所以，人们在养育孩子方面的体验确实存在极大的差异。

So, yeah, there is such a large spectrum of people's experiences with raising children.

是的。

Yeah.

你可以在他们命盘的具体细节中看到这一点。

And you can see that depicted in the specifics of their chart.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

还有为人父母的风格。

So there's also the style of parenting.

比如，有些父母非常严格，而另一些父母则极其放松。

Like, for example, some parenting can be, like, super strict or alternatively, could be people that are, like, super, super relaxed about their parenting.

有时，一个人的教养方式会体现在第五宫中。

And sometimes the the nature of a person parenting style can show up in the fifth house.

此外，还可能存在其他情况：比如，由于各种原因，有些人可能成为单亲父母；而在其他情况下，他们可能与伴侣共同抚养孩子；还有一些人则因为伴侣已有孩子而成为父母，这一点我们稍后会看到，当第五宫与第七宫存在关联时，就会出现这种情况。

There can also be other qualities like, in some instance, a person for different reasons might become a single parent versus in other instances, they may be parenting with a partner or in some instances, they may be may become a parent as a result of a partner already having a child, which we see some examples of that later on when there's a connection between the fifth house and the seventh house sometimes.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得我们有很多这样的例子。

I think we have multiple examples of that.

对。

Right.

在这种情况下，孩子的议题是通过与他人相遇或融合而进入生活的。

Where it's like the topic of children is imported into the life through meeting with another or through merging with another.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

在其他情况下，另一个在许多传统文本中曾频繁出现、但现在已不那么相关的议题是婚外生子，过去有时被称为所谓的非婚生子女，与那些在婚姻中或结婚后出生的孩子相对。

Elsewhere, another topic that came up in a lot some traditional texts that used to be more relevant in the past, but is not as much anymore is, like, children born outside of wedlock, which sometimes used to be called, like, supposedly, like, illegitimate children versus those who are born within, like, a marriage or when people get married.

我觉得这已经不再是一个主要问题了。

I feel like this has become less of a, like, major issue.

我想过去这更像是一种禁忌。

I guess it used to be more of, a taboo.

当我们参考二十世纪早期的星盘时，确实能看到，婚外生育或有时因婚外情所生的孩子，会给人的生活带来压力和挑战，这些影响会以独特的方式体现在星盘中吗？

And we do see especially when we're drawing on, like, earlier twentieth century charts, we see people wear the taboos surrounding having a child outside of wedlock or sometimes, like, a child born as a result of an affair, for example, creates pressures and challenges in some instances in a person's life in ways that show up in in unique ways in the birth chart?

是的。

Yeah.

文化趋势、社会趋势，或者某个时期被接受或不被接受的事情，如何与个人的出生星盘相互作用，这真是个有趣的现象。

It's such an interesting thing how cultural trends, societal trends, or things that are okay or not okay or more major taboos at certain points in time interact with individual birth charts.

因为当这种区分在一个人的生命周期中更为重要时，你确实会更明显地看到这一点。

Because you do see that stand out more when that's a more important distinction, right, during that the person's lifetime, during the time that they're alive.

我见过一些早年出生、婚外生子的人，有时第十二宫的影响力比现在更大，或者当我们谈到性取向时，那些一生中长期隐藏自己性取向的人也是如此。

So I've seen that with, yeah, with with some of those people born earlier who had kids out of wedlock and, you know, sometimes the twelfth house is more involved than, like, say, probably would be nowadays or, you know, when we get to the sexuality point, like, people who were more closeted most of their life.

它在个人星盘中是否更明显，有时取决于这个人所处时代的文化规范。

It stands out more sometimes in individual charts depending on what are the cultural norms at that time that the person's alive.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

这总是相对于个人的文化和时代而言的。

It's always relative to the person's culture and time period.

当然，即使在当今世界各地，这也取决于一个人所处的文化环境。

And of course, that's even, you know, in different places around the world today, you know, is gonna be relative to whatever culture a person's living in.

所以我们主要会讨论我们自己熟悉的内容，无法全面概括一切。

So we'll be talking a lot about our own and what we're familiar with, and we can't really summarize everything.

但确实，当我们进行历史研究时，尤其是研究那些拥有完整人生经历的人，比如名人或公众人物时，我们会看到这些现象。

But it is things that we do show see, especially when doing the historical research we've been doing of, like, people that had a full life where we can study their entire biography, especially a celebrity or a public figure.

这些人的出生年代往往是十九世纪末或二十世纪初，那时某些问题的重要性要大得多。

Then sometimes those are people that were born in the late nineteenth, early twentieth century where some of that stuff was much more important.

嗯。

Mhmm.

有时甚至是十八世纪。

Or even eighteenth century sometimes.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

第五宫涉及的另一个话题是您与子女的关系。

Other topics that can come up with the fifth house is your relationship with your children.

有些人和孩子的关系非常好，这可能是他们一生中最美好的关系。

So, you know, some people have, like, an amazing relationship with their children, and it's, like, the best relationship that they can have in their life.

比如，有些孩子被当作朋友对待，而在其他情况下，人们由于各种原因与孩子关系非常糟糕，极端情况下甚至会与孩子彻底疏远，或者孩子因为某种原因成为敌人。

Like, even so far as, like, when the child is, a friend or or is treated like a friend versus in other instances, people can have really bad relationships with their children for different reasons, where in extreme cases, can have a child who you become extreme estranged from or even a child that becomes like an enemy for some reason.

是的。

Yeah.

这真的很令人难过，当这种情况发生时。

And it's so sad, I mean, when that happens.

我想，从某种角度来说，这并不比星盘中其他领域对一个人造成巨大挑战更令人悲伤。

I I I guess in one way, it's not any sadder than, like, another area of the chart being very hard and challenging for the person.

但我认为这尤其令人难过，因为人们在养育孩子上投入了如此多的努力，如果后来亲子关系变得困难甚至疏远，确实令人惋惜。

But I think it's particularly sad because there's so much effort put into raising a child that, you know, it's sad if it it becomes a more challenging relationship or even estrangement later in life.

但你确实能从个人的出生星盘中看到这些差异，尤其是极端情况。

And but you can definitely see those, you know, those variations and especially the extremes again in individual birth charts.

有时，第五宫和第十一宫，或者第五宫和第十二宫之间会存在直接的联系，关于第五宫中涉及的凶星或吉星，这些关联通常相当可靠，我认为。

Sometimes there'll be literally like a connection between the fifth and eleventh or fifth and twelfth respectively with regard to the, you know, relationship or the malefics involved or the benefics involved in the fifth are pretty reliable, I think.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

至少大致表明那里可能存在紧张关系，也可能存在一些积极的因素。

In in indicating at least broadly that there might be tensions there or there might be good things there.

当然，还有其他因素需要考虑，比如孩子的出生星盘和他们的个性如何？

And there's other things that go into that, of course, because then there's like, what is the child's birth chart and what is their personality like?

两位父母之间的相位关系如何？

What is the synastry like between the two parents?

是和谐的相位，还是非常紧张、充满冲突的相位呢？

And is it, like, flowing synastry, or is it really tough, you know, conflicting synastry?

在不同的阶段，这段关系可能会更好或更糟，这取决于双方经历的行运，比如孩子进入青春期、特别叛逆的时期。

There's gonna be different eras in which the relationship might be better or worse depending on the transits that the two are having and, like, periods like when a, you know, kid is a teenager and if they're particularly unruly.

但这段关系对不同的人来说也可能好坏不一，可能是其中一方的错，也可能是另一方的错。

But then there's also that relationship can be good or bad for different people's you know, it can be one person's fault or the other person's fault.

有可能是父母本身不是一个称职的家长，成了甩手掌柜，导致孩子成年后断绝来往，彻底将这个糟糕的父母从生活中剔除；也有可能是父母已经尽了全力，但孩子自身出了问题——比如，毫无父母过错的情况下，孩子却卷入犯罪，甚至在极端情况下成为大规模枪击案的凶手之类。

It could be like the parent isn't a very good parent and becomes is a deadbeat parent, and then their child becomes estranged as an adult because they go no contact and they cut the bad parent out of their life versus you could have a parent that tried their best, but that there was something with the child where the child chose through no fault of the parents, let's say, let's say, get involved in crime or to, you know, in some really extreme instances, like, become, like, a mass murderer or, like, a shooter or something like that.

在某些情况下，这可能真的不是父母的错。

And it's like, in some instances, that might not be the parent's fault.

可能只是孩子自身的一些特质，出于某种原因在他们的星盘中显现出来。

It may be just something about the child for whatever reason that shows up in their chart.

所以这很复杂，因为可能存在许多不同的变数。

So it's complicated because there's so many different possible variations.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

关于最后这一点，我的意思是，如果你对占星学有深入的了解，你通常会默认一点：每个人的星盘都会反映出他们独特的人生，而这可能与父母如何抚养他们有关，也可能无关。

And with respect to that last point, I mean, you know, I think one of the things that astrology definitely shows is that we sometimes just take for granted at this point if you're involved very involved with astrology is that every individual chart is gonna show that individual life, and that may or may not be related to how the parent raised them.

你明白吗？

You know?

比如，他们天生就具备某些特质，这些特质从出生那一刻起就存在，是他们本性的一部分，也是他们人生经历的一部分。

Like, they're gonna have certain traits that are just from the moment of birth that's part of their being, that's part of their chart, that's part of their life experience.

并非所有事情都是由父母的养育方式决定的。

And everything is not dictated by, like, the nurture of parents.

你知道的？

You know?

过去在育儿方面， nurture 和 nature 的争论更多一些。

There used to be more of a nurture versus nature debate in parenthood.

而且，你知道，由于我参与占星学，以及一些其他的人生经历，我 definitely 站在这一边。

And, you know, I think especially with my involvement with astrology, I'm definitely on this side, as well as some other life experiences.

我觉得我 definitely 认为，这是 nature 的问题。

I think I'm definitely on the side of, you know, it's nature.

更偏向于 nature。

It's more nature.

我的意思是，我觉得两种情况都可能，我也不确定。

I mean, I think it can go either way, and it's it's you can't I I don't know.

在我看来，我见过两种情况：有时是 nature 的问题，也可能是 nature 的问题。

In my opinion, there's I I've seen both scenarios where it is a nature thing, and it can be a nature thing.

而且我认为确实存在一个问题：有时人们没有意识到，这可能只是孩子天性中固有的东西。

And I do think there's a issue where sometimes people don't realize that that it can be just something that's built into a a child's nature.

但显然，养育环境的因素有时也非常重要，因为确实存在一些情况，孩子只是被那样抚养长大的，父母有意或无意地做了某些事情，给孩子的生命带来了负面的影响和后果。

But then, obviously, the nurture element of things can be really significant sometimes as well because there can be instances where the child was just raised that way or the parent did something either deliberately or indeliberately that had negative repercussions and ramifications for the life.

我最近正好在讨论这个问题，因为有时会提到两个在同一家医院、差不多时间出生的双胞胎。

And and that was something I was talking about recently because the issue of, like, twin two people being born in the same hospital around the same time comes up sometimes.

所以从功能上讲，他们的星盘是一样的。

So functionally, they have the same chart.

但有趣的是，当这两个孩子回到家后，他们去了不同的家庭，父母的星盘各不相同，而父母的星盘会以不同方式相互作用，可能带来更积极顺畅的影响，也可能带来更具挑战性和问题性的互动，从而促进或抑制星盘中原本就存在的某些倾向——这些倾向本可能以积极的方式被激活，也可能以消极的方式被激活。

But what's interesting is what's different is immediately when those two children go home, they go to different families where their parents have different birth charts, and the birth charts of the parents do interact in different ways that can be either more positive and flowing or more challenging and problematic, and that will either encourage or inhibit certain tendencies that are already there in the birth chart and are either waiting to be activated in good ways or activated in bad ways.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

For sure.

而且不仅仅是相位互动。

And not just the synastry.

相位互动固然重要，但还要看这些不同父母的星盘中第五宫是什么样子，这说明了作为孩子，你究竟是怎样的人——而这与在同一时期出生的另一个孩子不同，因为生活中的一些方面会反映在你周围其他人的星盘中。

The synastry is important, but also like what does the fifth house look like in those respective different parents charts, and what does that say about, you know, who you are as the child, which is different than the other child born around the same time because some things about your life show up in other people's charts around you.

并不是所有东西都体现在你自己的星盘里，你还能看到并被周围其他人星盘中的宫位所象征，比如你的父母、配偶、朋友等等。

Not everything is there's lots of things in your own chart that you can see, and you are symbolized by, the houses in other people's charts around you, like your parents and spouse and friends and so forth.

所以，即使对于所谓的‘时间双生子’，这也是另一个不同的方面。

And so that's another thing that's different too even with so called time twins.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

所以，我们正在逐一讨论这些内容，生活中在不同阶段，通过各种行运会引发许多话题，这些都可能浮现出来。

So, you know, we're going through this whole list, and there's so many things that you can see or that do come up or or can come up circumstantially through transits at different points in the life, like topics that'll come up under certain transits.

但同时，仅凭看第五宫，也有很多东西是你看不到的，这正是一个相关的组成部分，我们显然无法完全深入探讨，也无法仅通过第五宫就看清很多事情。

But there's a lot that you can't see as well at the same time, I guess, by just looking at the fifth house, and that's, you know, a relevant component that we can't obviously fully get into or that creates even being able to see a lot of things through a person's fifth house.

有些事情是你看不到的，或者存在一些局限性。

There's some things that you that you can't see or there are limitations.

当然。

For sure.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

所以是与孩子的关系。

So relationship with the children.

不过，有时候孩子的本性、他们的兴趣或人生中专注的方向，会体现在你的第五宫，尤其是第五宫的守护星上。

The next thing though is sometimes the nature of your children and what interests them or what they end up focusing on in life can show up in your fifth house and especially in the ruler of your fifth house.

那么，你的孩子是什么样的？

So, you know, what are your children like?

他们的性格如何？

What are their personalities like?

孩子的性格有什么特别之处吗？

Is there something distinctive about the purse the children's personality?

有时候，这些特征会反映在父母的出生图第五宫中。

Sometimes that can show up in the parents' birth chart in their fifth house.

其他时候，孩子长大后专注或从事的事情也会体现出来。

Other times, what the child grows up to to focus on or do can show up.

比如，我书中用过一个例子，你曾经给我提过，有个人的第五宫主宰星落在第九宫，代表宗教与旅行。

Like, there was an example there's an example I used in my book that you gave me once of somebody who had the ruler of the fifth house of children in the ninth place of religion and travel.

他们的一个孩子从很小的时候就对外国文化和国家表现出兴趣。

And it was like one of their children from a very early age had an interest in foreign foreign cultures and countries.

一旦成年，他们就搬到了国外，甚至放弃了本国国籍，这正是第五宫主宰星落在第九宫——代表外国的直接体现：孩子的成年生活永久性地移居海外。

And as soon as they became an adult, they ended up, like, moving abroad and, like, renouncing their citizenship so that the literal manifestation of having the ruler of the fifth house of children in the ninth place of foreign countries was the the native's child moved abroad as an adult and and went there permanently.

但这位命主还有第二个孩子，他们主要在世俗环境中长大，但成年后却变得非常虔诚，信仰了一种与父母不同的宗教。

But then there was also a second child that the native had where they grew up in a secular context largely, but then when they grew up, they became very highly religious of a of a different religion than the parent.

这也是第五宫主宰星落在第九宫——代表宗教、信仰与哲学的另一种体现。

And that was another manifestation of having the ruler of the fifth house of children in the ninth house of religion and belief and philosophy.

是的。

Mhmm.

而第三个孩子则是一名教师。

And then the third of the three children is a teacher.

这并不完全是你说的那样，更广泛地说，第九宫涉及教学，因为是针对年幼的孩子。

It's it's not entirely like you know, it's more broadly ninth house in terms of teaching because it's younger children.

但无论如何，这三个孩子都是如此。

But nonetheless, all three of the children yeah.

我记得那个星盘。

I remember that chart.

这三个孩子以不同的方式体现了这一宫位 rulership 的含义。

All three of the children fit that rulership placement in different ways.

是的。

Yeah.

并且以不同方式展现了第五宫主宰星位于第九宫——象征宗教、旅行和教育——可能意味着什么。

And manifested different aspects of what it symbolically could mean for the ruler of the fifth house to be in the ninth place of, like, religion, travel, and education.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，当我们谈到第五宫的主宰星时，也会看到这一点出现。

So that's something that we'll see show up in the fifth house as well, especially when we get to the ruler of the fifth house.

好的。

Alright.

其他话题，孙辈。

Other topics, grandchildren.

第五宫代表你家族下一代的延续，但你知道，它也可能涉及更广泛的意义，即你生活中整体的子女议题。

The fifth house is, like, the continuation of the next generation of your family, but, you know, the it may also be other subsequent because it becomes more broadly, like, the topic of children in your life in general.

而有时，这种联系在未来不同阶段的体现，不仅通过你的孩子，也通过他们所生的孩子。

And sometimes the way that that comes up at different points in the future is through not just your children, but the children that they have as well.

当然。

For sure.

是的。

Yeah.

我有时会想，比如从第五宫再推第五宫，也就是你孩子的孩子的宫位。

I sometimes wonder about, you know, like, the fifth from the fifth in terms of a derived house of the children of your children.

但话虽如此，我确实经常看到孙子孙女在第五宫中非常明确地出现，因为正如你所说。

But I that said, I definitely sometimes see grandchildren come up very specifically in the fifth house because it is just like you said.

它就像是你对年轻人或孩子的体验。

It's like your experience of young people or children in a sense.

是的。

Yeah.

我知道许多后来的占星家，衍生宫位这个概念也是在《阿斯克勒庇俄斯》文本中首次提出的，一些后来的占星家对此非常关注。

And I know a lot of the later astrologers, it's like derived houses was also a text that or a concept that was introduced in the Asclepius text and that it talked about and some later astrologers really focused on.

但我们在这个系列中讨论过的一点是，始终存在一种张力：使用衍生宫位有时会变得极其复杂和繁琐。

But one of the things we talked about in this series is there's always been a tension between doing derived houses and sometimes it getting like incredibly complicated and convoluted.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但另一些时候，你可能根本不需要使用衍生宫位，因为象征意义已经内建在基本的十二宫中，只要你仔细观察和聚焦，尤其是在通过行运自然显现时。

But other times that you may not need to do derived houses and the symbolism may already be built into the basic 12 if you sort of, like, look at it and focus on it, and especially just in terms of how it'll naturally arise through transits and stuff.

如果第五宫代表孩子在你生命中出现的位置，那么在某个时刻，你可能会经历土星回归，而你的孩子恰好在土星回归时出现在第五宫。

If the fifth place is where children come up in your life, then it's like at one point you might have, let's say, a Saturn return and you have children at your Saturn return in the fifth house.

而在另一个时候，你可能会经历第二次土星回归，那时与孙子或曾孙有关的事情会变得非常重要，例如。

And then at another time, you may have a second Saturn return and there's something really important happening with grandchildren or great grandchildren, for example.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

它并不一定非得是你的亲生孩子。

It it doesn't ever have to be your own children.

它讲的是孩子这个话题，泛指所有孩子。

It is the topic of children in general.

所以这可以适用于孙子辈，也可以适用于其他家庭关系。

So that can go for grandchildren, that can go for other family relationships.

我记得最近我们讨论这个话题时提到过，在我上一个第五宫完美年期间，从时间上看，那段时间主要体现为我姐姐怀孕了，而她以前从未怀过孕。

Like, I remember recounting to you recently when we were talking about this that during my last fifth house perfection year in terms of timing, most of most of how that showed up for me that time was my sister was pregnant, and she had never been pregnant before.

她整个一年都在谈论她的怀孕以及之后孩子的出生和婴儿期，你知道的，几乎一整年都是如此。

And she was talking about her pregnancy and then the subsequent birth and infancy of her child, like, the entire year you know, most of the entire year.

那是我的情况，而且我的第五宫主宰星落在第三宫。

And that was my and I have the ruler of the fifth in the third house from the fifth.

所以这就像兄弟姐妹的孩子或兄弟姐妹的怀孕。

So it's like it was sibling's child or sibling's pregnancy.

你知道，我并没有孩子，但当时孩子的主题出现了，因为在我生活范围内，有某个孩子相关的事情。

And, you know, I have not had any kids, but that was the topic of children coming up because it was like some some child in my you know, in the realm of my life.

是的。

Yeah.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，事情就是这样发生的。

I mean, that's how it how it happens.

然后这就引出了最后一点，即第五宫也可以泛指你生活中年轻的人，或者年轻人的角色，但这里存在一定的模糊性，比如这个‘年轻’到底能到多大年龄。

And then that brings up the final thing, which is just the fifth house can also indicate younger people in general that are in your life or the role of younger people, which can go there's an ambiguity of, like, what age that goes up to.

我们一直在说孩子，但甚至青少年，有时年轻成年人也可能出现在第五宫，这一点在一些实例星盘中我们会看到。

We've been saying children, but even, like, teenagers and sometimes, like, young adults can sometimes end up falling in the fifth house as we'll see in some example charts.

这之后可能会延伸到其他概念。

And this may extend to other concepts later on.

比如，在吠陀传统中，他们认为第五宫也延伸至学生和学徒。

Like, for example, in the Vedic tradition, they talk about the fifth house also being extended to, like, students and apprentices.

因此，这里可能存在一种角色，即你正在教导年轻人，或者教导下一代的人，也可能出现在这个宫位中。

So there may be a role there where it's like you're teaching younger people or you're teaching the next generation of people may show up in house as well.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得有时候确实如此。

I think it really does sometimes.

我记得刚开始接触这个概念时，遇到一些大学教授，我就想，为什么第五宫会频繁出现，他们明明没有孩子？

I remember when I was starting to first encounter that with people who were like college professors, I was like, why is the fifth house showing up so much they don't have children?

但后来我想到了，这应该是他们的学生。

But then I, you know, I was like, I think this is like their students.

他们是年轻人。

They're like young adults.

他们不是小孩子，但相对而言，他们是年轻人，相对于命盘主人来说。

They're they're not children children, but they're like young people, all relatively speaking to the to the chart holder.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

所以这是相对于命盘主人而言的，关于年轻或青春的概念，它有时会以各种不同的方式体现出来，但记住这个原型非常重要。

So it's relative to the chart holder and something about the idea of youth or youngness, which can sometimes just show up in a lot of different ways, but keeping in mind that archetype is really important.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Alright.

所以，我想在这里总结关于孩子的这部分内容：虽然孩子主要出现在第五宫，但在古希腊占星传统中，他们也被分配到星盘中的其他宫位，比如第十宫，部分原因是因为第十宫代表命主的人生事业、职业，以及他们所从事的活动、行动的场所和成就。

So the final thing I want to say here to wrap up this section on children is that while children primarily show up in the fifth house, in the ancient Hellenistic tradition, they were also assigned to other houses in the chart, such as, for example, the tenth house, probably partially because the tenth house represents the native's life's work and their occupation and, like, what they do or the place of action and what you accomplish.

而且，你确实会看到一些星盘，尤其是在母亲的星盘中，孩子的养育会成为一个人的职业或主要事业，有时在这些情况下，第十宫确实会显现出来，尤其是当她们为了专注于抚养孩子而放弃其他职业或工作时。

And, certainly, you'll see charts sometimes, like especially in, like, a mother's chart where that becomes the person's occupation or primary profession, and sometimes the tenth house really does come up in those instances, especially if they leave another career or job in order to focus on raising children.

对。

Right.

这本质上就是她们的人生事业。

It is essentially then their life's work.

没错。

Right.

所以，孩子可能不仅出现在第五宫或第十宫，也可能出现在其他宫位，我们应当意识到孩子可能在其他宫位出现的可能性。

So it may show up in other houses as well as not just the fifth or tenth, but we should be aware of the possibility of children showing up in other houses.

这也是我在本系列中一直提到的内容，因为随着传统的发展，人们倾向于只关注一个代表某个主题的单一宫位，尤其是从八世纪以后恐怖占星兴起时，这一点变得尤为必要——因为在恐怖占星问题中，你必须明确哪个单一宫位代表该主题，才能给出答案。

And this is something I've been mentioning in as part of this series because even though as the tradition went on, there was a tendency to try to focus on just, like, one singular house that signifies a topic, especially once horror became more popular from, like, the eighth century forward, that was really necessary in horror questions because you need to know what the single house is that signifies a topic in order to answer a horror question.

但在希腊化占星传统中，一个显著的特点是，有时多个宫位会共同指示相同或相似的主题。

In the Hellenistic tradition, there is a distinct thing about sometimes multiple houses indicating the same or similar topics.

例如，瓦伦斯在谈论子女这个主题时，提到了第五宫、第十宫、第四宫和第十一宫。

So for example, when Valens talks about the topic of children, he mentions it in the context of the fifth house, the tenth house, the fourth house, and the eleventh house.

同样地，公元二世纪的克劳狄乌斯·托勒密在谈论子女时，也提到了第四、第五、第十和第十一宫。

And similarly, when Claudius Ptolemy, also in the second century, talks about children, he talks about it in the context of the fourth, fifth, tenth, and eleventh house.

这其中可能有不同的原因，我们不一定需要深入探讨，但就我们的目的而言，我们将主要关注第五宫，因为实践中子女的体现确实最常出现在第五宫。

So there's different reasons for that potentially that we don't necessarily have to go into, but and we're gonna focus for our purposes primarily on the fifth house, which I do think is the primary house of children where that in practice comes up the most.

但我还是想提一下，因为我们需要意识到，子女可能在星盘的不同宫位出现，尤其是在不同的情境下。

But I wanted to put that out there because we should be aware that children could show up in different parts of the chart, especially in different contexts.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

我本想提到，赫尔墨斯文本是最早撰写的一部关于宫位的文献，我之前提到过，它最初为宫位设定了一个基础的象征体系，当时十二宫的概念还属于新兴的理论或技术，大约出现在公元前二世纪。

I meant to mention it was the Hermes text, the first text that was written that I mentioned on the houses that originally outlined an initial set of significations for the houses when this was still like a new concept or technique, the concept of the 12 houses around the second century BCE.

它将生育子女与第十宫联系起来，而后来的阿斯克勒庇俄斯文本则将子女与第五宫联系起来。

It associated the conception of children with the tenth house, and then it was the Asclepius text that was written sometime later that associated children with the fifth house.

因此，早在早期，我们所看到的部分内容可能是早期作者在阐述传统奠基性文本时存在的分歧。

So right there early on, part of what we may be seeing is, like, disagreement with early authors who are outlining some of the foundational texts of the tradition.

随后，在一些早期的希腊化作者那里，这两种观点被合并了。

And then in some of the early Hellenistic authors, this gets merged.

他们只是说第十宫和第五宫都代表子女，但后来在传统中，这种区分逐渐被淡化了。

So they're just saying the tenth and the fifth both indicate children, but then later in the tradition, it kinda gets flattened out.

因此，现在只有第五宫代表子女。

So it's just the fifth house indicating children.

是的。

So Mhmm.

我想让大家意识到这一点，因为这可能值得进一步探索。

I want people to be aware of that because it may be worth exploring more.

尽管我们在这集中大部分不会深入探讨这一点，但它仍可能是一个值得进一步研究的领域。

And even though we're not gonna do that, for the most part as part of this episode, it could be an area of of further research.

是的。

Mhmm.

当然。

For sure.

虽然我确实更倾向于将主题定位在单一宫位中，以便更清晰，但这并不是第一个可能跨越多个宫位的主题。

And while I def definitely prefer topics to be located in one distinct house, just for clarity's sake, It would not be it it is not the first topic that can overlap houses.

还有其他生活主题有时会在多个宫位中呈现出不同的表现形式。

There are other life topics that can over you know, have different manifestations in more than one house sometimes.

对。

Yeah.

比如，健康就涉及第六宫和第十二宫。

We have the health axis of the sixth and the twelfth, for example.

或者在本系列的上一期节目中，我们谈到了一个对现代人来说有些陌生的含义，但在传统中却非常重要，那就是第四宫与死亡和生命终结的关联。

Or in the last episode in this series, we talked about one that's a little bit foreign of a signification to modern years, but was much more important traditionally was the fourth house and its associations with death and the end of life.

我们通过实际星盘看到，这种关联至今仍然非常相关且意义重大，因此不仅仅是第八宫能代表死亡，第四宫等其他宫位也可能如此。

And we saw how that's actually through the example charts still very relevant in very significant ways so that it's not just the eighth house that can signify death, but other houses like the fourth may as well.

同样地，当我们看到瓦伦将第五宫与朋友和伙伴关系联系起来，而不仅仅是第十一宫时，我们已经遇到了一些重叠。

And similarly, we're already running into some overlap with that here when we saw Valens associating the fifth house with, like, friends and partnership in addition to the eleventh house.

没错。

Right.

当我们谈到第五宫的创造力方面时，我看到第三宫和第五宫之间有大量的重叠。

And then when we get to the creativity aspect of the fifth house, I've just seen tons of overlap between the third and the fifth houses.

是的。

Yeah.

此外，第五宫的浪漫方面与第七宫之间也会有重叠，我们将在下一节中深入探讨。

And then there'll be an overlap as well that we'll talk about a lot between the romantic aspects of the fifth house and the seventh house, which we will get into in the next section.

但为什么我们不稍微休息一下呢？

But why don't we why don't we take a little break?

如果你真的想深入学习占星术，我建议你报名参加我的希腊占星课程，这是一门在线的古代占星课程，我会从基础概念开始，带领学员逐步掌握解读星盘的中级和高级技巧。

If you're really looking to deepen your studies of astrology, then I would recommend signing up for my Hellenistic astrology course, which is an online course in ancient astrology where I take people from basic concepts up through intermediate and advanced techniques for reading birth charts.

课程包含超过一百小时的视频讲座，还有每月的网络研讨会和问答环节，完成课程并通过最终笔试后，你将获得一份结业证书，证明你曾跟随我学习。

There's over a hundred hours of video lectures plus monthly webinars and q and a sessions and then at the end of the course you get a certificate of completion saying that you studied with me if you pass the final written test.

更多详情请访问 astrologyschool.com。

Find out more information at the astrologyschool.com.

好的。

Alright.

接下来我们需要讨论的第五宫主题是性与性欲。

So the next section that we need to talk about when it comes to the fifth house is the topic of sex and sexuality.

这是一个很大的话题，其中一个棘手的问题是，占星师们对哪个宫位代表性行为存在争议，主要争议集中在第五宫、第七宫和第八宫。

So this is a big topic, and one of the issues that's kinda tricky is that there's debates amongst astrologers about which house signifies sex in astrology, and the debates largely come down to the fifth house, the seventh house, and the eighth house.

我专门做了一期节目探讨这个问题，就是第157期，标题为《西方占星中哪个宫位主宰性行为》。

So I did an entire episode exploring this, which is episode one fifty seven titled what house rules sex in western astrology.

所以我不打算在这里详细展开，也不重复之前节目中的所有内容。

So I'm not gonna go through all of the details of this here and reiterate all of that in this episode.

但总的来说，每个宫位都有其道理，而我更倾向于关注第五宫。

But, basically, you know, there's something to be said for each, but I tend to focus on the fifth house.

在本节目中，我们将围绕这个角度来讨论，然后在第二和第三部分，当我们分析实例星盘时，会展示出当第五宫在出生图中以显著方式被强调时，它确实可能成为一个非常重要的主题。

And for our purposes, we're gonna talk about that in that context today, and then we're gonna demonstrate a lot of that in parts two and three when we get to the example charts to show that it can be a really major topic, when that's highlighted in significant ways in the birth chart.

但这并不意味着否定这种可能性，就像我们刚才讨论的，它也可能以不同的方式出现在星盘的其他领域。

But that's not necessarily to negate the possibility, like we were just talking about, that it may show up in different ways in other sectors of the chart as well.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

这一点很重要，尤其是在现代，过去一百年，特别是近几十年，现代占星师在谈到性时更倾向于关注第八宫。

So that's important, especially because in modern times, just in the past hundred years and especially the past few decades, modern astrologers have tended to focus more on the eighth house when it comes to sex.

但在此之前，第五宫受到更多的重视。

But prior to that, there was much more emphasis on the fifth house.

这有点复杂，因为瓦伦斯只有一处简短的评论，似乎暗示他将性与第七宫联系起来，而这种与婚姻和伴侣关系的关联，在一些传统文本中可能延续到了中世纪传统，但第五宫的重要性也逐渐增加。

And it's a little tricky because in Valens, he just has one passing remark that seems to imply that he associates sex with the seventh house, and that connection with, like, marriage and partnership in some traditional texts may have continued on to some extent into the medieval tradition, but the fifth house also became increasingly important.

这背后有几个不同的原因。

And there are a few different reasons for that.

其中一个非常重要的原因是，在古代占星术中，金星传统上是代表性行为的行星。

So one of them that's really important is that Venus was traditionally the planet of sex in ancient astrology.

正如我们之前所见，瓦伦斯在他的第一个象征意义中就明确指出，金星代表欲望与爱。

And Valens, as we saw earlier, right away in his very first signification says that that Venus signifies desire and love.

因此，一方面，我们已经通过前文以及儿童的主要象征意义了解到，性行为之所以被提及，是因为它与繁衍后代、生育孩子的过程密切相关。

So on the one hand, we already have seen through the previous and through the primary signification of children, one of the reasons then sex comes up is sex as part of procreation and as part of the process of making children.

因此，如果第五宫是与儿童及其各种相关事物——如怀孕、分娩、育儿等——主要关联的宫位，那么很自然地，实际生育孩子的过程也应与同一宫位相连。

So it's a natural extension then if the fifth house is the primary house that's associated with children and all of the different, like, myriad ways and things that are that are associated with that, like pregnancy and childbirth and parenting and all these other things, then it sort of stands to reason by extension that the process of actually, like, making children is connected with that same house as well.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

而且正如我们之前讨论第五宫基本概念时提到的，它是与身体相关的美好事物的宫位，而人们通常认为性行为也属于这一类别。

And then as we were talking about earlier in the basic conceptual pieces of the fifth house, it's the house that is associated with the good things having to do with the body, which, you know, usually people think of sex as like falling into that category.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，我想指出两点，说明为什么性与第五宫相关：一是性作为繁衍的一部分，与孩子有关；二是性出于愉悦。

So those are the two things I want to outline as the two arguments for sex being associated with the fifth house is sex is part of procreation and the connection with children, and then the secondary one is sex for pleasure.

这是第五宫的另一个重要方面，随着传统的发展，这一点变得越来越突出：传统上，第五宫被认为是享乐与愉悦之宫。

And this is the other side that's a major side of the fifth house that gets associated and becomes stronger if the further you go into the tradition, which is that traditionally, the fifth house is said to be the house of pleasures and delight.

因此，在我们之前提到的技术结构背景下——我最初是从赫尔墨斯文本中推断出来的，这可能是最早关于宫位的文本——第五宫是位于地下的宫位，象征身体，但也是一个吉宫。

So in our context, thinking about that technical structure that I outlined earlier that I originally inferred from the early Hermes text, probably the first text on the houses, the fifth house is the house that's under the earth, signifies the body, but it's a good house.

因此，它是与身体相关的美好事物或身体愉悦的宫位。

Therefore, it's a house of bodily good things that happen with the body or bodily pleasures.

这就是第五宫相关的另一个重要方面。

So that's the other major side of the fifth house that's relevant.

这将引出下一节的内容，我们会谈到，享乐与愉悦如何扩展为第五宫所关联的更广泛主题，即那些让你觉得生活值得过、为生活带来快乐的事物。

And this will lead to in the next section, we'll talk about this, how pleasures and delights leads to this broader category of topics that the fifth house is associated with, which is just like things that you enjoy that makes life worth living or that brings joy into your life in some way.

而性，正是人们生活中能带来这种感受的事物之一。

And, you know, sex is one of those things that that does that in people's lives.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的

Yeah.

我们目前是在非常概念化地讨论这个问题，但实际中也是如此。

And we're talking about this very conceptually, but just like also in practice.

我主要在人们的星盘和时机等方面看到第五宫与此相关。

I've seen it come up mostly with the fifth house in terms of people's charts and timing and stuff.

是的

Yeah.

基于你的经验观察？

From your empirical observations?

是的

Yeah.

我就知道你会这么说。

I knew you were gonna say that.

我的意思是，有一些，是的。

I mean, some, yes.

但同时也与人们讨论他们正在经历的事情以及他们星盘中的时间节点。

But also talking to people about what's going on with them and what their timing is happening in their chart.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，有时候有些年份，比如通过第五宫的年运或通过行运，如果一个人的星盘中有很多活动，他们可能会更频繁地发生性行为。

I mean, there are years sometimes, like, where if through perfections, like a fifth house profection year or through transits, if a person has a lot of activity, you know, they may be engaging in sex, like, more often.

也许他们正处于一段新关系中，或者在经历了一段不谈恋爱的时期后开始约会。

Maybe they're in a new relationship or maybe they're dating around after a period of of not, of being off the market for a while.

不管具体情况如何，当第五宫出现大量活动时，这常常会与性行为的发生相关。

Whatever the circumstance is, sometimes when a lot of activity is happening in the fifth house, this can be an area where where sex is, like, happening.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，如果你真的在做客户咨询——虽然我最近没做，但以前当人们遇到天王星行运到第五宫时，他们可能会说：‘我现在的性生活进入了一个更实验性的阶段’；或者当土星行运到第五宫时，他们会说：‘我以前从没遇到过的性方面的问题现在出现了。’

And I mean, just I mean, genuinely, if you're, you know, doing client work, which I haven't been recently, but, you know, further back, you know, when people have, like, Uranus transits there, they can be like, oh, I'm having this sort of more experimental phase going on in my sex life, or they're having a Saturn transit through the fifth, and then, like, I'm having these issues that I haven't had before with sexuality.

你懂的？

You know?

所以，这就是我的意思，根据我的经验，我通常看到这种情况在第五宫中显现。

So, yeah, just that is what I mean, and that I've I've usually seen it show up in the fifth house in my experience.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

而且这种情况甚至可能有极端的例子。

And there can be even extreme cases of that.

比如我稍后会展示的一个著名篮球运动员的例子，名字我一时想不起来了。

Like, one of the examples I'll show later of the famous basketball player whose name I'm blanking out on.

谁是

Who is the

威尔特·张伯伦的名字？

name of Wilt Chamberlain?

是的。

Yeah.

威尔特·张伯伦曾在自传中声称，他一生中与超过两万名女性发生过关系，或者类似的说法，据我所知，他的上升宫主星位于第五宫。

Wilt Chamberlain, who in an autobiography claimed to have had sex with over 20,000 women or something like that during the course of his life, was his estimate had I believe it was like the ruler of the Ascendant in the fifth house.

所以，有时候星盘本身就在告诉你，性与性欲是某个原因下的主要关注领域。

So it's like sometimes the chart itself can be telling you that this is a major area of focus for some reason of just the area of sex sex and sexuality.

对。

Right.

而这个具体的例子不仅仅是上升宫主星在第五宫，而且上升宫主星还与木星形成相位，木星会扩大事物的影响。

And that particular example was not just the Ascendant ruler in the fifth, but the Ascendant ruler in the fifth applying to Jupiter, which is expanding things.

对。

Right.