占星术中的四大元素，由达比·科斯特洛讲解

一个能量场。

An a energy field.

某种程度上像是不同的能量场。

Like different energy fields in a way.

尤其是当你谈到火的时候。

Well, especially when you're talking about fire.

只要你一说火，我就想到一个能量场。

As soon as you say fire, I think of an energy field.

但存在着不同的现实维度，它们以我最近称之为时空密度的形式表现出来。

But there are different dimensions of reality that express themselves in what I lately call the density of time and space.

而火似乎最接近超越这种密度的层面，所以如果你想到像特蕾莎·阿维拉这样的人，她的太阳与天王星在白羊座合相，位于第一宫，金星位于双鱼座第十二宫。

And fire seems the closest to beyond that density So that if you think of somebody like Teresa of Avila, she's got Sun conjunct Uranus in Aries in the first house and Venus in Pisces in the twelfth.

这种火与水的结合将她带到了她本不愿去的地方。

And the combination of that fire and water took her to places that she almost would rather not have gone.

它们如此非传统，以至于我说，或者不。

They were so unconventional that I say or not.

是的，它们带她进入了那些极致的狂喜之境。

Yeah, they took her to these other places of ecstasy.

我认为火可以带你进入这些狂喜之境，因为它们触及了那超越之境。

And I think fire can take you to these places of ecstasy because they touch that space beyond.

但当你自己或他人拥有大量火元素时，你必须找到如何在此处生活的方法。

But then you have to find how to live here with that when you have lots of fire or when people have lots of fire.

我想起我在约翰内斯堡的一个朋友，他有五个、甚至六个行星落在火象星座。

I'm thinking of a friend of mine in Joburg and he's got one, two, three, four, five, five or six planets in fire.

当他打电话或我们交谈时——尽管我们已经多年未见，现在可能都快四十年了——但我们依然保持联系，我必须等他前十分钟说完所有事情，之后我们才能真正展开对话。

And when he phones or when we speak to each other and we still do after being away for however it's forty years or something now, but we still speak, I have to wait for the first ten minutes for him to tell me all the and then we can have a conversation somehow.

我喜欢他所抵达的那些境界。

I love the places he goes.

对。

Right.

因为火元素往往能迅速燃起，变得炽烈而耀眼。

Because fire kind of can come alive very quickly and burn up and become very bright.

是的。

Yeah.

但如果没有持续供给能量，它也可能很快熄灭。

But then it can also kind of burn out quickly if it's not fed or sustained continuously.

它的固有特性是迅速燃起、明亮闪耀，然后迅速熄灭。

Its inherent tendency is to go to flare up quickly and burn bright and then to die out quickly.

对。

Yes.

它会如此接近那个其他空间，然后又回落到物质密度中。

Also, gets so close to that other space and coming back down into the density.

目前，世界正处于一个非常动荡的过渡阶段。

The world is in a very transitional disturbed space at the moment.

所以现在，他一直在说，难道人们不能生活在如此美丽与喜悦的层面吗？

So at the moment, he's talking about, And he keeps saying, don't people live at this level of beauty and joy?

他觉得，我们必须应对的这些行星和地球所带来的沉重密度，实在令人难以承受。

And he finds it so difficult the kind of crawling density of all these planets and earth that we're having to deal with somehow.

是的。

Yeah.

但他是一位画家，一位出色的画家，这让他保持清醒。

But he's a painter and a wonderful painter and that keeps him sane.

他可以通过绘画将愿景具象化。

He can bring the vision down with his paint.

我认为，当你拥有火焰时，你必须有一个地方来展现它，或许通过大地，或许通过空气。

And I think when you have fire, you've got to have a place to be able to manifest that which you have to bring it somewhere through earth perhaps or through air.

我不确定是否可以通过水。

And I'm not sure through water.

我认为它们非常相似，因为它们必须与某些其他事物相连，才能以一种合理的方式运作——如果我可以这么说的话，因为它们会带你进入一个非理性、非实际的境界。

I think they're very similar in that they have to be connected to something else to function in a way that's okay if I put it that way because they take you to a place that's so not rational and practical.

是的。

Yeah.

实际上，这可能与这一切的历史发展中的另外两件事有关。

So actually might connect with two other things in terms of just the historical development of all of this.

在柏拉图之后，我们迎来了亚里士多德，他提出了一些概念。

So after Plato, we get Aristotle and Aristotle introduces some notions.

其中一个与你刚才所说相关的是‘自然位置’的概念，他认为每种元素都具有内在的自然运动倾向，要么向上，要么向下。

One of them that's kind of relevant to something you were saying is the idea of natural place where he said that each of the elements has an inherent natural motion and an inherent natural tendency either to move upwards or to move downwards.

这些是元素作为其固有属性所表现的主要行为。

And those are the primary things that the elements do in terms of part of their inherent qualities.

这与你刚才说的很有趣，因为火是最倾向于向上运动，到达宇宙最上层的元素。

And that's kind of interesting in terms of what you're just saying because fire is the one that has the tendency to rise up the highest to the uppermost portions of the cosmos.

是的。

Yeah.

而空气也会上升，但会停留在火的下方。

Whereas air also rises up, but it then settles just below fire.

地球会下沉，它最致密，会朝宇宙的底部或中心坠落。

Earth falls, it's the densest and it falls towards the bottom of the cosmos or the center of the cosmos.

水也会向下沉降，但会停在地球上方，因为它密度稍低。

And then water also falls downwards but it rests just above earth because it's slightly less dense.

是的。

Yes.

这很有趣，因为如果我这样看待它们，我立刻会想到空气几乎必须诠释火焰，或者试图诠释火焰。

And it's interesting because if I look at those like that, I immediately think air almost has to articulate fire or seeks to articulate fire perhaps.

你所说的‘诠释’是什么意思？

What do you mean by articulate?

我认为空气总是在试图理解事物，试图为事物找到词语，试图与事物沟通，试图区分——在我看来，火焰呈现为图像，而空气则试图用语言来诠释这些图像。

I think of air as always trying to understand things, trying to find words for things, trying to communicate with things, trying to make difference between fire comes in images I think and air seeks as far as I understand the words to articulate the images somehow.

如果我看水和土，也是类似的情况，只是处于不同的层面。

And if I look at water and earth, it's a similar thing but on a different level.

你刚才想说什么？

What were you going to say?

是的。

Yeah.

所以，火焰和土几乎构成了两个极端，而空气则在火焰的领域与水和土所代表的更接地、更具体、更实在的世界之间充当中介。

So it's almost like fire and earth set up the two extremes, but then air is acting as an intermediary between the realm of fire and the more grounded or solid tangible world of water and earth.

而水在某种程度上也扮演着地球与其他两个元素之间的中介角色。

Whereas water to some extent is also acting as an intermediary between earth and the other two elements.

你这么一说，我想我可能在用一些老派的词，还没有找到新的表达方式。

As you put them there, I thought it's like I suppose I'm using old fashioned words and I haven't got new ones for it.

但火就像倾听事物的灵魂，而空气则试图阐明、表达或描述它。

But fire is like listening to the spirit of things and air tries to articulate that or express it or describe it or something.

水有一种这样的感觉。

And water has a feeling of this.

它触及了超越时间与空间的某种东西。

It touches again something beyond time and space.

它触及了事物的灵魂。

It touches into something the soul of things.

然后它以某种特定的方式与土结合，事物便被真正地创造和形成。

And then it's expressed through or it mixes with earth in a particular way and things are created and made literally.

因此，水可以说是大地的灵魂，而火在某种意义上是空气的精神。

So it's like the water is the soul of the earth and the fire is the spirit of the air in some way.

这就是为什么我认为它们相似，火和……等等，说错了，它们是其他维度。

And that's why I think they're similar fire and not similar, sorry, wrong, but they're these other dimensions.

它们需要通过空气轻易地表达出来，而另一个则通过大地轻易地表达。

And they need to be expressed through one through air easily and one through earth easily.

因为水对这些感受做了什么？

Because what does water do with those feelings?

我和水性的人非常亲近。

I'm very close to water people.

我会问：那你现在感觉怎么样？

And I'll say, But what are you feeling?

这总是需要花时间才能弄清楚他们到底在感受什么，因为他们必须向内探索才能抵达那里。

And it's always like it takes time to be able to find out what they're To be able to express what they're feeling because they have to go inward to get there somewhere.

水不容易表达出它最根本的东西——那种流动、那种持续变化的状态。

Water does not easily express that which is fundamental to it, this moving, this sort of constantly changing.

当它变得太停滞，不再时刻变化时，就会变得死寂。

And when it gets too stuck, it's not changing all the time, it gets stagnant.

但它是如何与之达成和解的呢？

But how does it come to terms with it?

所以水和火在某种程度上更难处理，如果我可以这么说的话。

So water and fire in a way are more difficult if I can put it that way.

它们必须找到表达自己的方式。

They have to find ways to express themselves.

对。

Right.

关于这一点，有趣的一点是，也许我们应该简要地岔开话题，谈谈我们这里讨论的这些原型特质。

One of the things that's interesting also about this and maybe we should briefly digress on is just the idea of what we're talking about here is these archetypal qualities.

这实际上追溯到了原型本身的定义——作为一种存在于现实之下，或在某种层面上超越现实的总体原则，许多子概念正是由此衍生出来的。

This really goes back to the very idea of what an archetype is as like an overarching principle that's existing underneath reality or maybe above reality on some level, but that then lots of sub concepts are actually being derived from.

我想不出比这四大基本元素或特质、根源更广泛的原型了。

And I can't think of any broader archetype than the elements in these four fundamental principles or qualities or roots.

根源。

Roots.

是的。

Yes.

这些根源真的很有趣，不是吗？

It's really interesting roots, isn't it?

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我刚才说了一点。

I mean, I just said something.

我说过，火和水更难处理。

I said fire and water, it's more difficult.

我不是说如果你的行星落在火象或水象宫位，就会更困难。

I don't mean that if you have planets in fire and water, it's harder.

我的意思是，它们必须找到表达自己的途径，而在我看来，土象和风象则自然地做到了——一个通过物质形式表达，另一个则通过你我正在使用的语言表达。

But I mean, they have to find places through which to express whereas it seems to me earth and air naturally do It's the articulation one in material things like this and the other in the words that you and I are using.

从某种意义上说，让它们变得有意义是很自然的。

It's a natural thing to make sense of them in a sense.

但火和水必须通过某种东西，简直就像它们需要……那到底是什么？

But fire and water have to It's almost as if they What is it?

它们在某种程度上必须通过某种媒介才能显现。

They have to come through something in a way.

是的。

Yeah.

我想法想得太远了。

I'm going too far in my head.

你通常如何定义原型？或者你对原型的概念是什么？

How do you usually define an archetype or what's your conceptualization of an archetype?

我知道。

I know.

我之前想过这个问题，因为我觉得我们会讨论原型。

I thought about that earlier because I thought we're gonna talk about archetypes.

天啊。

God.

在某种程度上，你在对原型的这种概念化上更受荣格学派的影响，对吧？

You tend to be more influenced by the Jungian school in terms of that conceptualization of archetypes on some level, right?

大概是吧。

That Probably.

但我已经很久没有读过这些内容了。

But it's a long, long time now since I've been reading that.

某种程度上，我已经远离它了。

I've been away from it in a way.

而且

And

我可能说错了，但刚才我们谈话时，我想：我到底还知道原型是什么吗？

I might be wrong about this, but earlier when we were speaking, I thought, Do I really know what an archetype is anymore?

它是一种我们都能够识别的某种形式。

It's like a form of some kind that we all recognize.

我曾在其他文化中生活过，深深融入过其他文化。

I've lived in other cultures, very deeply in other cultures.

有一些东西是我们绝对能认出来的，比如美。

And there were certain things that were absolutely we recognized like beauty.

我们对美的理解可能不同，但当有人说‘这很美’时，大家都知道我们在谈论某种普遍的、意象层面的东西。

And we may have had different ideas about beauty, but we knew when somebody said, That's beautiful, everyone knew that we were talking about something universal and at an imaginal level.

所以对我来说，原型是某种……我该怎么说呢？

So I suppose to me an archetype is something that it's What do I say?

它是那种通过文化被我们以不同方式塑造的东西。

It's that which we shape differently through culture.

但有一些形式是我们内在意象世界的一部分，不，是我们集体意象世界的一部分。

But there's certain forms that are part of our inner imaginal world or no, part of our collective imaginal world.

当然。

Sure.

或者举一个更抽象一点的例子，比如一棵树，我认为这是一个非常常见的例子，我们的内心某种程度上确实存在‘树’这个概念或树的本质。

Or even to give a more or less abstract example, even like a tree I think is a really common example that there is such thing as a tree or the essence of a tree in our mind on some level.

但不同树木的具体形态可能各不相同，但如果你谈论‘树’这个概念，它们都共享某种共性。

But the specifics of what different trees look like may be different, but they all share some sort of commonality if you're talking about the concept of a tree.

哦，这很有趣。

Oh, that's interesting.

还有神、神灵，这甚至更自然了。

And also gods, deity, that's even more natural almost.

每个人都知道这意味着什么，但如何具体界定，以及他们现在是否喜欢它。

Everyone knows what that means, but how specify that and whether they like it or not nowadays.

无论如何，在我们的文化中，无神论的宗教现在相当普遍。

The religion of atheism is quite big at the moment in our culture anyway.

但当你谈到神或神灵时，每个人都知道你在说什么。

But everyone knows what you're talking about when you talk about the gods or deity.

所以，像树这样实际或物质的东西，和像神这样遥远的东西，都是原型。

So something is as practical or as material as a tree and yet something as far away as a god, those are archetypes.

因此，原型是事物的形式之类的东西。

So archetypes are the form of things or something.

对。

Right.

所以，这是一种终极的、非抽象的、但属于概念层面的形式，它存在于所有具体事物之上，是物质世界中各种表现形式的底层基础。

So the ultimate underlying, not abstract, but sort of conceptual form that exists above something underlying all of the particular things that are manifestations of that form in the material world.

我想这一点在于，我认为 archetype（原型）是元素的核心——当你开始探讨元素时，似乎你是在进入非常高阶的原型，试图将一切还原为四种基本品质或原则，从中衍生出无数具体的表象。

And I guess the point of that was just that I think there's no broader The archetype is where Of the elements, when you start getting into elements, seems like you're getting into really high level archetypes of trying to take everything back to four fundamental qualities or principles from which you derive just innumerable other specific manifestations.

但有时在讨论元素时，这也可能是一个挑战，因为它们作为原型可能太过根本或原始，导致难以清晰表达，因为它们所解释或涵盖的范围实在太广泛了。

But that can also be one of the challenges sometimes in talking about the elements is they can be so fundamental or so primary as archetypes that it can be difficult to articulate that because it can be so broad in what it's explaining or what it's covering.

是的。

Yes.

因为如果你说得太具体，它几乎就不对了——比如我想说，土象星座本质上是务实的。

Because if you say anything too specific, it almost doesn't like I want to say Earth signs are fundamentally practical.

然后我会想，这真的对吗？

And then I think, Is that true?

但风象星座也可以以另一种方式变得务实。

But an air sign can be practical in another kind of way.

但当你一提到土象星座时，很难不自动联想到它们是务实的。

But it's hard not to automatically think when you've got Earth signs, it's practical.

有一种天然的务实性。

There's a natural practicality.

今天早上在花园里，我们有一个公共花园。

So this morning in the garden, we have a communal garden.

每周一早上，我们社区的一群人会去那里，把花园打理得非常漂亮。

And on Monday morning, a group of us in the community go there and keep it quite beautiful.

我们聊到了世界上正在发生的事，比如病毒。

And we were talking about what's going on in the world, the virus.

我了解他们所有的星盘。

And I know all their charts.

他们不知道这是什么意思，但我了解他们的星盘。

They don't know what that means, but I know their charts.

我注意到土象星座的人对大家喋喋不休地谈论这件事感到烦躁。

And I was listening to the earth sign being irritated by everybody going on and on about this.

直接应对就好。

Just deal with it.

没关系。

It's fine.

就别纠结了。

Just deal with it.

而水象星座说，我不确定。

And the water sign saying, I'm not sure.

他们各自对同一件事有不同的感受或表达出不同的语气，然后火象星座开个玩笑，让我们别再谈这个了。

Each of them feeling differently or just expressing different tones about a collective thing and then the fire sign making a joke about it so we'd stop talking about it.

为了让我们赶紧离开那儿，他凭着白羊座月亮说：好吧。

And just to get us out of there with his Aries Moon, he just said, Okay.

他说了句有趣的话。

And he said something funny.

我们全都转到了另一个话题。

We all went off into a different direction.

所以当你了解一个人星盘的基本元素时，就不必记住具体的度数或相位了。

And so when you know the fundamental elements of people's charts, you don't have to remember the degrees or the aspects.

你能听到元素在说话，我觉得这样听比直接说出它是什么更令人满足。

You can hear the element talking And it's very satisfying I think to hear that rather than saying what it is.

你去听，或者去观察。

You listen to it or watch it.

了解身边人的特点很有用，因为当你属于火象和风象，而你的土象、水象伴侣需要告诉你他们的感受时，你得知道他们需要时间来表达。

It's good to know it about the people close to you because when you're fiery and airy and you want your earthy, watery partner to tell you what they're feeling, you have to know that they have to take time to do that.

当火象的人表达他们的感受时，土象和水象的人必须学会放慢节奏，这样才能实现有效的沟通。

And when the fiery person is saying what they're feeling, the earth and water has to know how to slow them down so that you can have a communication.

所以我认为，这些元素只是作为背景信息非常有用。

So they're very useful just as background information, I think.

当然。

Sure.

无论是用于自我反思、理解自己，以及那些可能在你生活中更显著显现的原型特质，还是作为理解他人及其动机或倾向的切入点，都是如此。

So both in terms of self reflection and understanding oneself and some of the overarching archetypal qualities that might manifest more prominently in your own life, but also an understanding as an access point for understanding other people and what their motivations or tendencies might be.

是的，正是如此。

Yes, exactly.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这是一种感觉，而不是分析。

And it's a sense not an analysis.

并不是说，哦，他那样做是因为你可以感受到，这就像看一棵树或看鸟一样。

It's not like, Oh, he is doing that because you can get it as a It's like looking at a tree or looking at birds.

听水象特质的人和听火象特质的人打电话，完全是两种不同的能量。

They're both different and listening to a water person and then listening to a fire person on the phone too, totally different energy.

当你对他们的本质有了这种感知时，就会更少评判。

And it helps to be less judgmental when you have that sense of who they are.

每次遇到新的人，我都会问，关于你的朋友或某个人，你知道他们的星盘吗？

I'm always fascinated when I meet people and I'll say about your friend or somebody, do you know what's their chart?

他们会说，哦，我不知道。

They're like, Oh, I don't know.

我从不关注我身边的人。

I never look at people close to me.

我想，如果你不了解这些，该如何去理解他们呢？当他们做出某些行为时，你能从一种整体感受上去理解他们的出发点，而不是凭自己的主观想法去评判他们应该如何。

I think, How do you navigate without knowing these things so that when they do something, you can see where they're coming from in a sense rather than having a notion yourself about how they should be somehow.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Right.

对。

Yeah.

那我们稍微退一步，深入探讨一下每种元素背后的基本特质，谈谈支撑每个元素的核心原则，这样我们之后就能把这些应用到更具体的区分中。

So let's back up a little bit and get into more of the underlying qualities and talk about some of the core principles underlying each element which maybe then we can apply to more specific delineations.

亚里士多德做了一件非常有用的事，他说，既然元素构成了我们可感知的物体和周围的世界，它们就应该与某种感官相关联。

One of the things that Aristotle did that was really useful is he said that because the elements are creating the perceptible bodies and like the world around us that they should relate to one of the senses.

而他最终聚焦的感官是触觉。

And the sense that he ended up focusing on was the sense of touch.

他将这四种不同的性质与每个元素关联起来，分别是热、冷、湿和干。

And he ended up associating these four different qualities with each of the elements which were the sense of hot, cold, wet, and dry.

而且

And

这当中有一点问题，因为他的观点在他的一生中可能有所变化。

there's little bit of an issue because his views actually may have changed during the course of his lifetime.

到他去世时，他的主要学生、接替他学校领导地位的泰奥弗拉斯托斯，对一些归属做了一些调整。

By the time he died, some of his assignments were changed up a little bit by his primary student and the guy that took over for his school, Theophrastus.

后来的斯多葛学派和赫尔墨斯哲学家也沿用了这些重新分配的性质。

Then the Stoics and the Hermetic philosophers also followed these reassigned qualities.

但这些性质大致如下：将‘热’分配给火。

But those qualities are basically as follows where it assigns the quality of hot to fire.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这使得

That makes And

它将火与空气对立起来，在斯多葛学派和赫尔墨斯体系中，赋予空气寒冷的属性。

it puts fire in opposition to air where it assigns in the stoic and the hermetic system the quality of cold.

比如当你吹气来降温，或者想象吹灭火焰或吹灭蜡烛的例子。

Like when you blow on something in order to cool it down or imagine like blowing out a fire or blowing out a candle for example.

而水被赋予了湿润或潮湿的主要属性，这相当直接。

And water was given the primary quality of being wet or being moist, which is pretty straightforward.

是的。

Yeah.

两个，火和水都很明确。

Two, fire and water are pretty straight.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

然后，土被赋予与水相对的主要属性，即干燥或使事物变干。

And then Earth is given in opposition to water the primary quality of being dry or drying things.

因此，这些属性被非常字面地赋予了。

So this then gets assigned very literally.

早在公元前三至四世纪的斯多葛哲学中，就已经存在这种观念了。

So this is already in Stoic philosophy by the third and fourth century BCE.

但在公元前一世纪，当人们在构建我们如今所熟知的西方占星术和星盘的各个组成部分时，他们采纳了这些分配方式，并直接将黄道十二宫按顺序排列，使火象星座位于气象星座的对面，水象星座位于土象星座的对面，或土象星座与水象星座相对。

But then somebody in the first century BCE when they were creating the different components of what we associate with Western astrology and with birth charts, they took these assignments and then they literally put the signs of the zodiac in order so that the fire signs would be on the opposite side of the zodiac wheel from the air signs and the water signs would be on the opposite side of the zodiac wheel from the water signs or the earth signs opposite water signs.

因此，你最终得到的是火象星座，如白羊座、狮子座和射手座，它们是热的，正好与气象星座——冷的星座相对。

So what you end up with then is the fire signs such as Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius which are hot are all opposite to the air signs which are cold.

所以气象星座是双子座、天秤座和水瓶座。

So air is Gemini, Libra, and Aquarius.

而所有土象星座——干燥的星座——则与水象星座——湿润的星座——相对。

And then all of the earth signs which are dry are opposite to water signs which are wet.

比如金牛座与天蝎座相对，处女座与双鱼座相对，以此类推。

So like Taurus is opposite to Scorpio, Virgo is opposite to Pisces and so on and so forth.

因此，这在星座之间创造了天然的张力：每个星座都有其元素及其属性，而与之直接相对的则是具有相反属性的对立元素。

So it creates these natural tensions between the signs where each sign has its element with its quality, but then you have an opposing element with an opposing quality directly in opposition to it.

很有趣。

Interesting.

我现在才注意到，我刚才下意识地说，我的天性觉得风象星座比其他任何星座都更容易表达火象星座。

It just strikes me now without noticing, I was saying how my natural inclination is that air expresses fire more easily than any other sign does.

而土象星座也比其他任何星座都更容易与水象星座连接或协同作用。

And earth expresses water or connects with it or works with it more easily than any other.

我刚刚才意识到这一点。

And I'm just noticing this.

我想这会不会是因为它们彼此相对，所以似乎能更自然地相互沟通。

I wonder if it comes because they're opposite each other and they seem to communicate with each other more naturally in a way.

没错。

Exactly.

是的。

Yeah.

我不太了解什么热和干之类的说法。

I don't know about the hot and dry and all of that.

我不确定这一点。

I'm not sure about that.

但土与水、火与风的搭配完全说得通。

But the earth and water, fire and air makes perfect sense.

是的。

Yeah.

实际上，在公元世纪的占星家维提乌斯·瓦伦斯的一些著作中，他曾提到过这种对立性质在某种程度上对各个元素都有帮助。

And there was actually in some of the century astrologer Vetius Valens, he says something very similar about this oppositional quality actually being helpful to each of the elements in some way.

我正想快速找到那段引文。

And I'm trying to find that quote really quickly.

对，实际上我会跳过这一点，因为背景里有些噪音干扰。

Yeah, actually I'll skip over that because I'm having some noise issues in the background.

但瓦伦斯提到过一个观点，认为水有助于减轻土的干燥，从而使土壤变得肥沃，便于植物生长。

But there's a notion that Valens talks about of water helping to make earth less dry and therefore making it fertile so that you can grow things in the soil.

这真美。

That's lovely.

或者土为水赋予形态，因为水通常非常无定形，总是完全适应其所处的环境，从而彻底扩散开来，变得过于稀薄。

Or earth giving form to water because water tends to be very formless and tends to just adapt completely to whatever environment it is so that it can just spread out completely so that it's spread too thin.

但如果你把水放在一个由土制成的容器里，比如一个碗，水就会突然被塑形并获得形态。

But if you put it in a container made of earth, like let's say a bowl, then water is suddenly shaped and given form.

所以，尽管它们具有几乎互为对立的相反特质，但这种方式下它们反而能互相帮助，赋予彼此形态和真正有益的特质，而不是必然造成伤害。

So even though they have opposing oppositional qualities that are almost the antithesis of each other, they can be helpful in that way in helping to give each other form and to give qualities that are actually useful to each other through that rather than necessarily harmful.

对立。

Opposite.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，我刚刚想到，这因为我最近在做关于火、土和水的网络研讨会时又重新研究了这些元素。

And also, was just thinking and this is because I was working on fire, earth and water again recently when I was doing the webinars.

当我研究水的时候，我意识到，无论水从哪里开始，最终总会流向大海。

And when I came to water, it struck me that all water tends to go no matter where it starts, it always ends up in the sea.

我突然意识到，它总是在寻求某种统一性。

It struck me it's always seeking unity of some kind.

我还想到了三个水象星座，它们各自以不同的方式寻求某种统一。

And I thought about the three water signs too in their own way, each seeking unity in different ways somehow.

但一旦水到达海洋，它又会蒸发上升，然后在别处重新落下，继续寻求统一——我以前从未这样想过，也想不出还有哪种元素是以这种方式追求统一的。

But once it gets to the sea, it then goes back up and then comes back down somewhere else and then seeks I'd never thought of that before and I couldn't think of any other element that is seeking unity in that way.

这在某种程度上是一个全新的想法。

It was a new idea in some way.

而作为水元素的痛苦在于无法获得这种统一，有时这种统一是与某种理念，有时是与一个群体、一个人或神明，无论它是什么。

And the pain of being watery and not being able to get that unity, sometimes the unity is with an idea, but sometimes it's with a group or a person or a god, whatever it is.

但这种感觉就像是想要回到某种东西。

But it's that wanting to go back to something almost.

这几乎就像是想要回到某种东西。

It's almost like wanting to go back to something in a way.

它穿过大地流下。

It comes down through the earth.

他是怎么说风的？

How does he say about air?

因为我很喜欢那种将土与水结合的表达方式。

Because I loved that articulation of earth with water.

但他是怎么说空气与火的关系的呢？

But how does he say air does with fire?

你记得吗？

Do you remember?

我没有原话，但在我的书第264页，我总结了瓦伦斯的说法。

So I don't have the exact quote, but I summarize it on page two sixty four of my book where I give sort of a summary of what Valens says.

我在我的书《希腊化占星术》中写了这些内容。

And what I wrote there was in my book Hellenistic Astrology.

是的，我那边就有这本书。

Yeah, I've got it over there.

他说火和空气彼此交融，因为它们都向上飘升。

He says that fire and air intermingle with each other since they both rise upwards.

在这个过程中，火热的火得到了较温和的空气（属冷）的支持，而空气同时又被火的热量温暖，从而不会变得过于寒冷或冰冻。

And in the process of doing so, fire which is hot is supported by the more mild temperature of the air which is cold, while at the same time the air is warmed up by the heat of fire so that it does not become overly cold or frigid.

所以他的意思是，它们让彼此变得更加温和。

So what he's saying is they're making each other more temperate.

而节制，在像托勒密这样的作者看来，实际上是将积极建设性的事物与消极破坏性的事物区分开来的基本定义：极端往往不稳定，而适度的事物则更稳定，更有利于长期维持。

And temperance is in some authors like Ptolemy is actually their basic definition of something that's positive and constructive versus something that is negative and destructive is that extremes can be unstable whereas that which is temperate can be more stable and more conducive towards maintaining something in the long term.

是的。

Yes.

你绝不会认为火本身在任何情况下是温和的。

And you wouldn't think of fire on its own as temperate in any way ever.

对。

Right.

没错。

Yeah.

但当谈到这些时，我几乎想说，我会从三个层面来想象火。

But when those, I almost want to say images I think of fire on three levels I suppose.

想想亨利·科宾所说的想象界作为最高层次，然后是想象力，再然后是幻想。

Think of the imaginal plane as the highest plane that Henri Corbin talks about, then the imagination and then fantasy.

人内心中火的部分可以有三种不同的层次。

And there are like three different levels of where one can go with the fiery part of oneself.

这些层次可能最容易通过风来表达和阐述。

And they're probably most easily articulated, most easily expressed through air.

然而，当我看到火与土强烈结合时，我总是很感兴趣，因为在非洲，我认识一些具有这种特质的人。

And yet, when I see a combination of fire and earth very strong, I always am interested because in Africa I knew some different people with it.

当这种结合具有创造性时，它会非常惊人，因为它必须将这种意象转化为现实中的具体事物。

And when it's creative, it's amazing because it has to take this image and make something out of it in the earth.

因此，我认识的那些在丛林里的人，他们为自己建造的房子都非常非凡。

And so a lot of the people I knew in the bush, the houses they built for themselves were extraordinary.

他们会告诉你，从一个季节到下一个季节，我要做这个、这个和这个。

And they would tell you from one season to the next, I'm now going to do this and this and this.

然后你会看到他们以一种非凡的方式完成这些事情。

And then you'd see them do it in a way that was extraordinary.

但火与土的结合并不容易，也不舒适。

But it's not a comfortable easy combination fire and earth.

但它的创造过程绝对是美妙的。

But the creation of it is absolutely wonderful.

是的。

Yeah.

而对于拥有火与水特质的人，理解他们同样并不轻松。

And the understanding of somebody with fire and water, it's not again not comfortable.

但如果他们有意识地与自己相处，他们就能理解一些超越我们理想中那种整齐清晰的生活方式的东西。

But if they are conscious and working with themselves, their ability to understand something about life that goes beyond the neat little clean little way we'd like life to be.

他们感受并经历了太多，这些体验无法用理性的层面来概括。

They've felt everything and experienced so much that is not on these rational levels somehow.

所以我总是觉得，那些令人不安的事物才最有趣。

So I always find the uncomfortable things are the most interesting.

如果你只想过得舒服，它们确实会让人感到烦闷。

They're just a drag if you want to be comfortable somehow.

对。

Right.

让我看看。

Let me see.

我正在想，除了探讨每个元素的基本特质及其主要性质外，我们是否应该聚焦于对比黄道十二宫的星座，以便从实际星座的角度来理解这些元素的含义。

I'm trying to think of other If we should touch on other underlying qualities for each of the four elements and what their primary natures are or if we should focus on, I don't know, contrasting the signs of the zodiac in order to try to approach the elements and what they mean in the context of the actual signs.

是的。

Yes.

你有吗

Do you

你有没有一种感觉，比如我们可以讨论土元素具有非常切实的特质，而你之前谈到水元素倾向于统一和凝聚事物。

have a feeling like for example, we could talk about Earth for example being a very tangible quality whereas you were talking about water and its tendency to unify things and to bring things together.

寻求统一。

To seek unity.

是的，我在想水元素。

Yeah, I was thinking about the water.

如果这么说的话，水象星座的父母确实更难摆脱，因为巨蟹座会创造一个容器，希望他们的家人始终留在其中。

It's harder to get away from a water parent if you put it that way because the Cancerian will create a container in which they want their family to stay.

就是那种统一性。

There's that unity thing.

所以我总是觉得巨蟹座会创造一种让你感到熟悉的环境。

So I always think of Cancerians as creating containers in which you will feel familiar.

我不会说一定是安全，但至少是熟悉的。

I'm not going to say safe necessarily, but familiar.

有时候人们不想离开熟悉的东西，因为那会让人感到害怕。

And sometimes people don't want to get away from the familiar because it's scary somehow.

但天蝎座是完全不同的情况。

But Scorpio is a whole different thing.

也很难摆脱。

It's hard to get away as well.

但难以摆脱是因为你的联系如此隐秘而真实，天蝎座的联系存在于你最深处——我几乎想说脆弱，但这个词可能不太准确。

But it's hard to get away because your connection is so hidden and real that the Scorpio connection is at that place where you are most I almost want to say vulnerable, but it might not be the right word.

我认为那并不是你最隐蔽的地方。

I don't think that's where you are most hidden.

我总是认为，那是你自己完全隐秘的部分，而天蝎座会以某种方式触及到它。

I always think of it as where the completely hidden part of yourself that the Scorpio touches in one way or another.

如果你离开，你就不会再以这种层次被看见，无论好坏，都很难摆脱。

And if you leave, you won't be seen at that level for good or for bad and it's hard to get away.

至于双鱼座，你想要离开，又不想离开；你想要离开，又不想要。

And then with Pisces, you want to get away, you don't want to get away, you want to get away, you don't.

被接纳的感觉——不一定被看见，而是被彻底接纳——当水星以这种方式运作时，是双鱼座的终极体验。

The feeling of being accepted, not seen necessarily but accepted utterly is the ultimate of Pisces planets when it works that way.

当它运作良好时，你被完全、绝对地接纳，无论你是什么样子。

When it's working, it's like you're utterly absolutely accepted and seen for whatever you are.

因此，当你与水象星座深度连接时，你会有一种感觉：你的整个自我都被卷入其中。

And so there's this sense of being I suppose your whole self is caught up when you're connected deeply to water people.

这几乎就像是你内心那部分——再次强调，是你隐藏的部分。

It's almost as if the part of you Again, it's part of you that's hidden.

而如果你看火象星座，被爱的是你外显的部分，而不是隐藏的部分。

Whereas if you take fire, it's the part of you that manifests that's loved, not the part that's hidden.

所以当你和一个水象星座坐在一起时，你会被置于某种特定的状态；而当你和一个火象星座坐在一起时，你们会共同进入另一种特定的状态。

So you're sitting with a water sign and you're held in a particular place and you're sitting with a fire sign and you go together to a particular place.

水倾向于包裹住它周围的一切，并适应它。

So water tends to envelop whatever it's around and to conform to it.

我想，这其中一个基本的原则或特质就是包裹，同时也是一种顺应或适应。

I guess that's one of the underlying principles or qualities is in enveloping but also sort of conforming or adapting.

它是可适应的。

It's adaptable.

哦，这很有趣。

Oh, that's interesting.

就像

Like

我在想一个能说明这一点的例子。

I'm trying to think of an example of that.

比如，如果你有一桶水，然后往里面扔进一样东西，水就会被排开，绕着它流动，并适应那个物体的形状。

Like if you have like a bucket of water and you like drop something in it, the water will be displaced and will sort of move around it and conform to whatever that thing is.

我不确定这是否如此。

I don't know if that.

我认为我所看到的是，当你靠近水时，它会触动你内心某种无法言说、不可见的东西，并在一种深层的层面上影响你，当你离开时，你仍会留下这种感觉。

I think what I'm seeing is that when you are close to water, it touches something in you that is unworded and unseen and it touches it at a level that when you leave, you're left.

这就像你几乎被遗弃了一样，因为你曾被如此深刻地触动、被看见、被体验过，以至于难以离开。

It's like you can be abandoned almost because you've been touched and seen, experienced so deeply that it's hard to leave.

我会说，巨蟹座就像一个容器，但要离开这种被如此深刻地看见的氛围却很难，而这种被看见的方式是其他人无法给予的。

And I would say with Cancerian the container, but it's hard to leave that atmosphere of being seen so deeply in a way that other people don't see you.

所以我不太确定所谓的适应性。

So I don't know about the conforming.

我只是知道，与水相关时，你会以一种非常私密的方式被触动。

I just know you're touched in a particular way that's very, very private I think with water.

是的。

Yeah.

而如果你想到风，你会有对话、建立联系、分享，但那是在完全不同的层面上。

Whereas if you think of air, you have conversations, you connect, you share but at such a different level.

水位，除非是对的，否则无法用言语形容。

The water level, there's no words for unless it's Right.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，水在连接事物时几乎带有一种情感成分，而通过水连接事物的方式更偏向情感或感受，而空气则不同，它也在传递某种东西，但传递的更多是信息、想法或思想。

So it's almost like there's an emotional component to water in its connecting of things whereas there's more of an emotional or let's say a feeling way of connecting things through water whereas with air, it's also something that's conveying something but it's conveying more like information or ideas or thoughts or words.

所以它也有传递某种东西的感觉，但方式更冷一些，更偏向理智而非情感。

So it's also got that sense of conveying something but doing it in a, I guess, a colder sense which is more of an intellectual sense rather than in a feeling sense.

如果我这么说的话，我会用‘更冷静’而不是‘更冷’，因为‘冷’这个词立刻让我产生了评判，但其实是‘冷静’。

I would say a cooler sense if I put it that way rather than colder because colder heads immediately made me have a judgment about that, but it's cooler.

我只是在想，早上时风象星座提醒我们周五必须去哪些展览，因为我们周五要去一个展览。

I'm just thinking in the morning that the air sign's telling us what exhibitions we must go to on Friday because we're going to an exhibition on Friday.

在大英博物馆，有一个关于特洛伊的展览。

At the British Museum, there's an exhibition of Troy.

不，不，不，你必须去这里，你必须去那里。

And no, no, no, you must go here and you must go there.

是的，是的，你去过吗？你去过吗？你去过吗？

And yes, yes, have you been and have you been and have you been?

你提到了‘信息’这个词，它是关于分享和表达信息的。

And you said the word information, it's sharing and expressing information.

而水，则是连接、触碰某些东西。

Whereas the water, it's connecting, touching something.

而且水常常触碰的是你童年时期曾拥有的东西，因为水也与记忆有关。

And often it's touching something that was part of you as a child because there's something about memory in water as well.

所以，它触碰到了非常深层的东西，那是在你学会说话之前就存在的。

So, it touches something very deep and that goes back to before you had words.

有时它是痛苦的，有时它是美丽的，但水触及的是那个层面；而空气触及的是当下。

And sometimes it's painful and sometimes it's beautiful, but it touches that whereas air is touching now.

此刻的可能性是什么？现在正在发生什么？

The possibilities right now, what's going on now?

它就在这里，而且很清爽。

It's right here and it's cool.

是的

Yeah.

我喜欢把水看作是无言之物。

I like that as water being that which is without words.

言语存在

Words there is

更冗长。

much more wordy.

我

I

我的意思是，普鲁斯特当然。

mean, Proust of course.

用过他。

Used him.

我最近在翻我的书，因为上周我们聊过，我用了我非常喜爱的普鲁斯特。

I was looking at my books because we were talking last week and I used Proust whom I loved.

我的意思是，我只读完了第一卷的全部内容，但没读完其他的。

I mean, I only read the whole of the first volume, but I didn't read all of them.

但他关于记忆的整个观点，让我理解了水如何带你回到语言之前的状态。

But his whole thing about memory, he got me into understanding something about it that water takes you back to pre verbal.

当然，他并没有这么说，但指的是你尚无意识、只有感受和安全感的那段时光。

Well, he didn't say that of course, but to the time when you were nothing but feeling, nothing just feeling and safety.

安全感和感受是一切的核心。

Safety and feeling were everything it was about.

所以，一个与水相关的人，要么带你进入那种安全的状态，要么让你感到极度不安，但同时让你真切地感受到。

And so, a water person either brings you into that place of safety or makes you feel very unsafe but makes you feel.

而我们文化中的困难在于，人们认为你随时都该表现得没事。

And the difficulty in our culture is feeling is you're supposed to be fine all the time.

所以这很困难。

So it's difficult.

你必须拥有这样的空间。

You have to have places.

我总是对我的水属性客户说，你必须留出时间去感受一整天涌上心头的所有情绪，这样才能睡得好，必须给自己空间去经历这些感受，并让它们 somehow 回归海洋。

I always say to my water clients, you must have time where you feel all the emotions that came through the day so that you can sleep well, so that you must give yourself space to go through the feelings and let them go back to the ocean somehow.

否则，这些情绪会不断累积，哪怕是最小的事情也可能引发一场风暴，因为有太多情绪没有被反思。

Otherwise, they build up and build up and the smallest thing can have a storm just because there's been too much feeling, let's say, unreflected somehow.

水也与反思有关。

Something about reflection in water as well.

它需要反思。

It requires reflection.

我喜欢这一点。

I like that.

反思。

Reflection.

好的，这是另一个不错的关键词。

Okay, that's another good keyword.

是的。

Yeah.

将这一切与风象形成对比，风象往往更偏向理智，这让我想到人们表达关怀的不同方式，因为这在占星学中经常体现出来：比如，当你带着问题去找那些水象星座明显的人时，他们可能会更富有同理心，更能表达情感，或只是在情感层面上陪伴你、与你同在；而如果你和那些风象星座明显的人交谈，他们可能会倾向于用理智的方式去理解情感。

So contrasting all of this with air which tends to be more intellectual which really comes out like I'm thinking of different ways that people express nurturing because this is where this comes out often in astrology is how people with let's say a lot of water sign placements might relate to you if you come to them with a problem in maybe being more empathetic or having an ability to emote or just be there, be present with you on an emotional level versus like let's say you're talking to somebody with a lot of air sign placements and they might have a tendency to try to intellectualize To understand emotional it.

当然。

Sure.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

昨天，我正在经历一些事，跟两个人聊了聊，他们问我：‘你怎么样？’

And yesterday, I was going through something and I spoke to two people and they said, How are you?

土象星座的人则试图告诉我该怎么做，好让我感觉好一点。

I said, And the Earth sign tried to tell me what to do so I could feel better.

好的。

Okay.

水象星座。

Water sign.

他们会给你一些实际的建议，告诉你该怎么做。

The give you like a practical advice for what you should do.

没错。

Exactly.

然后我不由得叹了口气。

And I ended up going, Ugh.

尽管我非常爱这个人。

And even though I love this person.

而那个天秤座但水象能量很强的人只是说：哦，哦，哦。

And the Aquarian but with lots of water just said, Oh, oh, oh.

之后我问她：你是怎么做到不试图帮我分析、让我理解的？

And afterwards I said, How do you manage not to try and help me understand?

她回答：很久以前，我就从你身上学到了这一点。

And she said, I learned that from you a very long time ago.

这招不管用。

It doesn't work.

所以她直接进入了她的水象自我，只是静静地听我抱怨。

So what she'd done is she'd gone straight into her water self to listen to me moaning.

到了对话结束时，我们已经开始笑谈各种事情，享受彼此的陪伴。

And then by the end of the conversation, we were laughing about things and enjoying ourselves.

这就是我喜爱这种水性的地方。

And that's what I love about that water.

你可以进入其中，然后又离开，去往别处。

You can go there and then you can come out and go somewhere else.

但在一个不像某些文化那样重视情感的文化中，你必须有勇气去敢于感受情绪，才能拥有同情心。

But I think you have to be able to have the courage in a culture that doesn't honor emotions in the same way as some other cultures do to be able to dare to feel the feelings so that you can have compassion.

也许同情心与水有关。

And perhaps compassion has to do with water.

把同情心看作是水的特质，我能理解。

Compassion as a water trade, I could see that.

是的。

Yeah.

我们之前没提到的一点，也来自斯多葛学派的理论：土和水是更被动的元素，而火和风则被认为是更主动的元素，这在现代语境下或许可以类比为内向与外向——如果这种类比适用的话。

And something we didn't mention which also comes from the Stoic theories is that earth and water are more passive elements whereas fire and air are supposed to be more active elements, which you might in a modern sense associate with introversion versus extroversion perhaps if that's applicable.

是的

Yeah.

我得想想关于内向和外向这个问题，但我认为这可能是对的，因为一个属于空气元素的人，如果在一群人中没有进行良好的对话，可能会比地球元素的人更难受；而如果食物好、氛围好，地球元素的人就无所谓。

I'd have to think about that introversion, extraversion, but I think that's probably true because an air person who's in a group of people and doesn't have a good conversation will probably suffer more than an Earth person if the food is good and the atmosphere is good, they're okay.

我说的不只是太阳，而是很多行星。

Not just the Sun I'm talking, but I'm talking about a lot of planets.

所以我认为，空气元素需要某种形式的交流和接触。

So I think air needs the communication somehow and the contact.

因此，当我面对因其他原因而害羞的空气元素的人时，我总在思考如何帮助他们学会以一种能够与他人沟通的方式表达自己。

And so if I'm dealing with airy people who are shy because of other things, I'm always thinking about how to help them learn to articulate themselves in a way that they can be in communication with other people.

因为如果其他因素阻碍了这种沟通能力，那就非常困难了。

Because if other things get in the way of that ability to communicate, that's very hard.

就我所见，这些空气行星都关乎沟通。

Those air planets are about communication as far as I can see.

我以前曾在日记里写过一句引言：深度就在表面。

There was a quote I used to have on my diaries and it was, The depth is on the surface.

我认为这是叶芝说的。

I think it's Yeats that says it.

我想多年前有人对我说过这句话，我特别喜欢，尤其是当行星落在双子座时。

I think somebody said it to me years ago and I just loved it having planets in Gemini.

我喜欢在机场排队时进行完全表面化的对话。

I love having a totally superficial conversation in a queue at the airport.

但当我们真正深入时，其实已经通过表面话题及其结合，谈到了更深层的内容。

And yet when we get to the thing, we've actually talked about things that were deeper by talking about things on the surface and the combination of that.

每个星座都有这样的特点，比如双子座，什么话题都能聊。

And there's something about each of the signs like Gemini talk about anything.

对双子座来说，唯一的罪过就是有人让你感到无聊，喋喋不休地对你单方面灌输，而不是与你交流。

Only crime really for a Gemini is for somebody to bore you, go on and on, talk at you rather than with you.

但天秤座需要学会这一点。

But Libra has to learn to.

这不一样。

It's different.

这几乎像是它必须学会沟通的舞蹈，不是完全投入对方，而是学会来回互动。

It's almost like it has to learn the dance of communication, not to give itself totally to the other person, to learn to go back and forth.

一旦它学会了，就会非常令人满足。

And once it learns that, it's very satisfying.

我总是想到水瓶座的人，如果一个水瓶座感到不安或烦躁，我只要去商店，跟柜台后的陌生人聊几句，回家后就没事了。

And I always think of Aquarians that like if an Aquarian is feeling edgy or agitated, all I have to do is go down to the shop, have a conversation with a stranger behind the counter, come back home and it's okay.

他们需要置身于那些之前没怎么交谈过、或在外面的人群中。

The need to be amongst people that you haven't had a conversation with much before or who's out there.

所以，我们可以把对话或互动分为三个层次。

So there are three levels of conversation or of interaction, let's say.

我不知道，你认为他们是否总是需要学习新东西？

I don't know, do you think they always need to be learning things?

我不确定这三者是否都

I'm not sure if all three of them

是的，有可能，但可能在不同的领域。

Yeah, potentially, but maybe in different areas.

双子座更像是学习事实或学习一些零散的小知识并进行交流

Gemini is more like learning facts or learning small discrete things and communicating

或者语言。

Or languages.

是的，语言。

Yeah, languages.

我有几个朋友月亮落在双子座，他们特别擅长语言，我总是非常羡慕他们轻松掌握新语言的能力。

I have several friends that have the Moon in Gemini and they have a way with languages and I'm always very much jealous of their ability to pick up new languages or learn languages easily as a result of that.

双子座确实有这个特点。

There's that component with Gemini.

而天秤座似乎更偏向社交，学习社交信号，某种程度上成为社交信号的高手。

With Libra, it seems like it's more social and learning social cues and being masters of social cues in some ways.

哦，这很有趣。

Oh, that's interesting.

对。

Yes.

而水瓶座，我常常认为土星是其传统守护星，他们有时在社区组织或围绕相同理念、信息或目标凝聚人群方面表现出色。

Whereas Aquarius, I often think of Saturn as the traditional ruler and their ability where they can sometimes excel at community organizing or organizing a group of people around the same message or around a similar ideal or goal.

还有，水瓶座的特质，我想我又回到了大约四十年前的时光。

And also, the Aquarian thing, I think I'm again going back in time probably about forty years ago or something.

在一次人群聚会中，一位年轻的水瓶座对我说，太阳或什么的，他问我：你知道我想要什么吗？

And a young Aquarian said to me at a gathering of people, the Sun or something said to me, You know what I'd like?

我问：什么？

And I said, What?

他说：我希望有朝一日能与地球上每一个人至少进行一句话或一次对话。

He said, I would like at some point to speak at least one sentence or one conversation with every single person on the earth.

我当时想：这就是对他人、对远方之人的爱。

And I went, Doing, the love of the other, the one out there.

你说得对，当然，这也关乎社区。

And you're right, of course, it's about the community as well.

水瓶座有众多行星影响时，往往更容易与陌生人或社区中的人相处，而不是与亲密的人；他们需要在家庭之外拥有呼吸的空间。

It's often with lots of planets in Aquarius, it's often easier with strangers or with people in the community than it is with intimates, the need to have air to be able to breathe beyond the home.

从这个意义上说，它根本不是水。

It's so not water in that sense.

当然。

Sure.

所以它是社交的。

So it's social.

关于所有这些，有趣的一点是，你也可以通过与对立面对比来更清晰地理解其中一些。

And one of things that's interesting about all of these is you can also get a much clearer idea of some of them by contrasting it with the opposite.

是的。

Yeah.

水瓶座是狮子座的对立星座。

So Aquarius as the opposite sign to Leo.

是的。

Yeah.

水瓶座作为风象星座及其社交倾向，与狮子座作为火象星座及其创造倾向形成对比，但狮子座更强烈地以自我为中心，将其作为主要的立足点或参照点，而水瓶座则更关注他人的社群。

And the air sign of Aquarius and its social tendencies versus Leo as a fire sign and its creative tendencies, but also its focus more intensely on the self as its primary locus or reference point as opposed to maybe Aquarius which is more focused on the community of others.

是的。

Yes.

这很有趣，因为我曾和一个住在国外的年轻人在WhatsApp上聊天，她和某个人发生了矛盾。

That's interesting because I had a conversation with a WhatsApp conversation with somebody in another country, a younger person, and she had a difficulty with somebody.

她是个太阳在狮子座、月亮在水瓶座的人。

She's a Leo with Moon in Aquarius.

这个人没做对事，然后对我说：‘请……’

And she, this person hadn't done the right thing and said to me, Please.

于是我简单写了几个字，说明因为X、Y、Z，这个人可能在社群中会有什么感受。

So I just wrote a few words about how that person might be feeling in the community because of X, Y, and Z.

她立刻回复了，因为时差关系，是第二天回的，说：‘我明白了。’

And she wrote back immediately, I mean, the next day because she's in another time zone and wrote back and said, I got it.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我明白了。

I got it.

我注意到她的狮子座特质非常强烈。

And I've noticed that with her, Leo thing is very strong.

这才是正确的方式，这才是好的方式。

This is the right way and this is the good way.

我觉得狮子座就像非洲小屋中央的火焰，那些漂亮的非洲小屋。

And I think of Leo as fire in the center of the hut, these wonderful African huts.

它们相当大，中间燃着一堆火。

They were quite big and in the middle was a fire.

我觉得当火焰高度恰当时，每个人都会被照亮。

And I think of Leo like when the fire is the right height, everyone is illuminated.

但如果火焰太低，每个人都会感到寒冷。

But if the fire is too low, everyone's cold.

如果火焰只围绕着我、我、我，太高了，每个人都会消失。

And if the fire is all about me, me, me too high, everyone disappears.

但当狮子座拥有恰当的光芒时，他们的心就在房间里，每个人都会以某种方式被照亮。

But when a Leo has the right illumination, their heart is in the room, Everyone is illuminated in some way.

但不知怎么的，她的火焰变得太旺了。

But her fire had gotten too hot somehow.

然后，当她给出那个人可能离开的理由时，空气似乎吸收了这些情绪，之后她又恢复了正常。

And then giving her reasons of why this person might be out, the air took it and then she came back and was fine again.

我认为这种组合很难，因为一方面，事情就是如此，不容置疑。

And it's hard that combination I think because one is so here, this is the way it is.

而另一方面，又必须时刻关注社区里的每一个人。

And the other is constantly needing to be attentive to all of the people in the community somehow.

但当它奏效时，当然就会非常美好——当这些对立面突然达成和谐时，她就能再次奉献出自己的心。

But when it works, it works of course like when these oppositions when it suddenly works, it works beautifully because then she could give her heart again.

是的，我喜欢这个说法。

Yeah, I like that.

而且，火焰在得到良好维护或处于适当水平时，自然会吸引人们靠近，人们也会自然而然地聚集在它周围，仅仅因为它存在、纯粹地表达自己，就成为了焦点和中心。

And also fire naturally when well maintained or at like a okay level naturally attracts people around it and people naturally congregate around it so that it becomes like the locus or the center of attention just as a result of being itself or expressing itself absolutely.

自然而然。

Naturally.

尤其是狮子座，我不知道为什么对我来说它似乎是那个我们以前用过的词所指的核心，总之，它是圆形家园的中心。

And particularly Leo, I don't know why for me it is the center of I can't remember the word we used to use for it, Anyway, it's the center of the round home somehow.

但射手座很有趣。

But Sagittarius is interesting.

我想我花了很长时间才明白，射手座完全是另一回事，因为它正处于路上。

It took me a long time I suppose to get I mean, Sagittarius is a whole different thing because it's on its way.

我觉得它像是哲学家，是智慧的热爱者，试图理解某些东西。

I mean, I think of it as the philosopher, the lover of wisdom trying to understand something.

但它同时也是祭司，感知着超越时空密度的事物，并试图将其带入现实。

But it's also the priest and sensing that which is beyond the density of time and space and trying to bring it down.

困难在于它高高在上，自以为是，不断说教的时候。

And the difficulty is when it stands on a high horse and knows and preaches and everything.

但当它不那样做时，它会带你接触那些超越你理解范围的事物，扮演着我所说的祭司角色，作为不可见的永恒与时空密度之间的调解者。

But when it doesn't do that, it brings you into contact with that which is beyond your understanding and operates as the, I say, the priest, the mediator between the invisible eternal and the density of time and space.

总的来说，射手座有一种先知般的特质。

And something about Sagittarius in general, it's a visionary I suppose.

它有一种特质，我觉得你可以把气球压到水下，但只要一松手，它总会浮上来。

And there's something about it that's quite I think of them as you can take a balloon and push it under the water, but as soon as you take your hands off, it'll always come up.

他们内心确实有一种哲学性的东西在发生。

They do have a philosophical something happening inside.

我朋友怎么说？

What does my friend say?

哦，这真是个老生常谈。

Oh, there's some cliche.

我有个朋友，他有五个行星在射手座，或者四个行星在射手座，他总是能想出一些话来以一种有趣的方式激励你，这也很美好。

I've got a friend and he's got five planets in Sag or four planets in Sag, and he's always coming up with these sentences to keep you going somehow in an amusing way which is also lovely.

是的。

Yeah.

我在想，射手座作为火象星座，与双子座这个风象星座正好相对，它们的对比在于：双子座更擅长传递信息、交谈，有时甚至停留在表面层次，而射手座似乎更关注宏观层面的事物。

I'm trying to think then, so Sagittarius as a fire sign is opposite to Gemini as an air sign and the way that they contrast because Gemini can be much better at just conveying information and talking and sometimes even talking on a surface level whereas Sagittarius seems like it's more focused on big picture type things.

是的。

Yeah.

双子座提供信息，而射手座则以某种方式将其转化为有意义的东西。

And Gemini, Gemini gives the information and Sagittarius turns it into something that has meaning one way or another.

你喜欢这个意义或是否认同这个意义，那是另一回事。

Whether you like the meaning or agree with the meaning or not, that's a whole another thing.

但它已经存在了。

But it's been there.

它正在朝那个方向发展。

It's on its way there.

但它已经存在了。

It's been there.

它正在前往那里。

It's going there.

双子座就在这片区域。

And Gemini is here in the neighborhood.

假设我现在从宫位的角度来看待它们。

Suppose now I'm suddenly seeing them in terms of the houses.

我看到的是第三宫、第九宫、邻里，第三宫的邻居。

I'm seeing third house, ninth house, neighborhood, the neighbors for the third house.

我把双子座和第三宫联系起来，然后乘船或乘飞机去某个地方。

I'm connecting up the Gemini with the third house and on my way in a ship somewhere else or a plane somewhere else.

如果没有双子座，也许当你有很多行星落在同一个星座时，为了保持某种平衡，你几乎必须去另一个地方，即使你那个其他宫里没有行星。

And only Gemini without I suppose that maybe there's something about when you have a lot of planets in one sign, almost have to go to the other place to keep yourself balanced in a way even if you don't have planets in that other cell.

所以一个从不寻求意义的双子座，可不是什么好事。

So a Gemini who doesn't look for meaning ever, not such a good thing.

而射手座虽然有这些想法，却不注重沟通。

And Sagittarius who has these ideas but isn't about communicating.

对。

Right.

就像那位哲学家，跑去森林里冥想四十年，却从不回来分享他的领悟。

Like the philosopher that goes off in the woods to meditate for like forty years but never comes back to share Exactly.

他们

What they

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

所以也许对立面的存在是为了将你拉回或引入某种平衡。

So maybe the opposites are there to be the bringer back or something or the bringer into.

我总是认为，相位对立确实与他人之间的冲突有关，而四分相则更像是与自己的内在斗争。

I always think of oppositions, they really do have to do with struggles with other people whereas squares really are struggles with yourself somehow.

但相位对立就像与另一个元素对话，或许能让你保持理智。

But the oppositions, they are like having a conversation with the other element and it keeps you sane perhaps.

是的，我喜欢这个说法。

Yeah, I like that.

再没有比第一宫和第七宫的轴线更清楚的例子了：你有上升星座，它主导着你自己的个性、倾向和特征；而第七宫和下降星座则带有相反的元素特质，主导着你的关系，或者有时决定你被吸引的人，或吸引你的人的类型。

Nowhere is that clearer than with the first house, seventh house axis you have your rising sign and you have the element that dominates your own personality and tendencies and characteristics, but then you have the seventh house and the sign on the Descendant with its opposing elemental quality that dominates your relationships or sometimes the types of individuals that either you are attracted towards or attracts towards you.

是的

Yes.

我也喜欢这种对立关系，因为我一直觉得我必须关注上升点和下降点这一轴线，只是因为我想要重新开始思考它——因为你根本不知道别人通过上升点看到的是什么。

I like that opposition too because I keep thinking I must do something on the Ascendant Descendant axis just because I want to get back into thinking about it because you have no idea what other people see I think with the Ascendant.

你必须真正努力去理解别人眼中的你是什么样子。

You have to really work to see what it is other people see.

很多时候，你并不知道人们为什么喜欢你或不喜欢你，因为第一宫就摆在那里。

So often you don't know why people either like you or don't like you because that first house, it's there.

但我把第七宫看作是你布置客厅的方式，如果用英语表达的话，就是客厅或者你愿意称作的任何空间。

But I think of the seventh house as the way you set up your drawing room, if I use English language, English's way of saying it or the living room or whatever you want to call it.

那些能够进入这个空间并待在那里的人，你才能与他们沟通。

And people who come in to that place and can be there, then you can communicate with them.

你是否与他们建立亲密关系，则取决于第八宫会发生什么。

Whether you get intimate with them or not depends on what happens in the eighth house.

是否跨过房间另一侧的那扇门。

Whether you go through the door on the other side of the room.

但第七宫似乎就是人们靠近你的方式，而这正是他们所感受到的第七宫能量。

But the seventh house seems to be the way people come next to you and that's what they feel, that seventh house energy.

某种程度上，这就是你如何设置它的。

It's how you set it up in some way.

而且这是相反的。

And it's the opposite.

它的存在是为了教你关于如何做自己和他人、他人和自己的道理，而不仅仅是做自己，也不仅仅是他人。

It's there to teach you something about how to be yourself and other, and other, yourself and other, not just yourself and not just other.

是的，很难学会，但很重要。

Yeah, hard to learn but important.

对。

Yeah.

这引发了一个我有时仍然在思考的问题，那就是第七宫的那些特质在多大程度上。

And it raises a question I sometimes still wonder about which is how much those qualities in the seventh house.

假设一个人的第七宫没有任何行星，这些特质在多大程度上是个人内在固有的，又在多大程度上是个人可能缺乏但会引入到自己生活中的。

Let's say especially if a person doesn't have any planets in the seventh house, how much are those qualities that are already inherent in the individual versus how much are those qualities that the individual may lack but may import into their life.

这属于现代占星术中占星师们常提到的一个概念：如果你的某个元素在某些星座中过多，或者更重要的是，如果你在某些元素中缺乏行星，那么你可能会吸引那些在他们的星图中拥有这些配置或主导该元素的人进入你的生活，以此来平衡你自身生命中的某些方面。

So there's one of those common concepts that astrologers have in modern astrology about if you have excess of elements in one set of signs or more importantly if you have a deficiency or a lack of elements, planets in certain elements, then you might import or draw people into your life that have those placements or have that element dominant in their chart in order to somehow balance out things in your own life.