占星学中的幸运点与精神点

在来世中，他描述了自己对冥界的愿景，那里有两条道路，一条通往正义者，另一条通往不义者。

In the afterlife, he recounts his vision of the underworld consisting of two paths, one for the just and one for the unjust.

灵魂在每个领域中居住一千年，之后通过轮回选择下一生。

Souls dwell in each realm for a thousand years before choosing their next life through reincarnation.

在做出选择之前，灵魂们聚集在命运之纺车旁，三位命运女神编织着命运，女神拉刻西斯则根据前世的德行分配生命。

Before choosing, the souls gather at the loom of fate where the three fates spin destinies and the goddess, Lachesis, assigns lives based on merit from the previous life.

乌尔看到伟大的英雄和暴君们选择与其灵魂状态相匹配的生活。

Ur see sees great heroes and tyrants choosing lives suited to their soul's condition.

起初被一位强大暴君的生活吸引，但乌尔记起了苏格拉底的教诲，最终选择了一种更简单的哲学家生活。

Initially drawn to a powerful tyrant's life, Ur remembers Socrates' teachings and chooses a simpler philosopher's life.

随后，他在火葬柴堆上苏醒，从此被他的经历永远烙印。

He then wakes up on a funeral pyre forever marked by his experience.

所以这个神话中一个重要之处在于，所有即将转世的灵魂都位于宇宙边缘，他们被赋予命运之签，必须抽取一支。

So one of the things that's important is basically in the myth, it has like all of the souls that are about to reincarnate are like on the outskirts of the universe, and they are given lots and they have to pick a lot basically.

因此，存在一种随机的机制：他们必须抽签来决定谁先选择，从而拥有更广泛的生活选项，而谁必须最后选择。

So there's this random chance like thing that happens where they have to cast lots in order to determine who gets to choose first and have a greater choice of lives versus who has to choose last, basically.

是的，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

他们抛出签条，你拿到一个数字，然后根据这个数字排序，接着选择你的生活。

They cast the lots out and you kind of get a number that you go and order then and then choose your life.

但我记得文中提到，有足够的美好生活供每个人选择，意义非凡，选择空间其实很大，但如果你抽到靠后的签，或者抽到靠前的签，仍然会受到限制。

But I think there is a line in there that says there's enough good lives for everyone to have something that's meaningful and to have there's quite a lot of choice, basically, but there's still those constrictions being placed on what you're able to choose if you were last or if you're first based on the casting of the lots.

没错。

Exactly.

所以，一旦你抽到了签——也就是那个随机的元素，接着你就要选择你的生活。

So it's like this because once you choose your lot, which is the the chance like element, then you choose your life.

因此，从对话的角度来看，它试图在某种意义上为命运与自由意志都留出空间，其中有一个你无法控制的元素，那就是随机性。

And so at least in the terms of the dialogue, it's trying to make some room for both fate and free will in a sense, and that there's this element that's outside of your control, which is like the chance.

但一旦你抽到了签，你就可以选择你想过怎样的生活。

But then once you are dealt that lot, then you choose what life you want to live.

有趣的是，当一个人抽完签并选择了一种生活后，每个灵魂都会被分配一个守护灵，这个守护灵会跟随灵魂转世，帮助其践行并确保其遵循当初所选择的生活轨迹。

So what's interesting about this is then once once a person casts their lot and then chooses a life, each soul is then assigned a guardian spirit, which is then assigned to the person and then is supposed to follow them into incarnation in order to help ratify and help ensure that they follow the plan in terms of what life they chose.

因此，他们被赋予了一种被称为守护灵的东西，在希腊语中称为‘daimon’。

And so they're assigned what's called a guardian spirit or in Greek, it's called a daimon.

这个daimon或灵会伴随这个人一生，并根据他们所选择的要过的生活方向，引导他们走向特定的道路。

And that daimon or that spirit then accompanies the person throughout their life and pushes them in certain directions based on the choice that they made in terms of what life they were supposed to live.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为其中还提到，是人自己有责任去选择自己的生活或选择自己的守护灵。

And I think that there's something in there too that says that it's the person's responsibility to either choose their life or choose their daimon.

我记不清是哪一个了，但神不会为此负责。

I can't remember which and that God will not be held responsible.

因此，他们几乎把发生的一切责任都推给了个人，这一点我一直觉得非常有趣。

So they almost put the responsibility for what happens on the individual, which I always found really interesting in that respect.

这几乎是在说，把出错的责任推卸掉，而完全归咎于个人自己。

It's almost saying, like, abdicating responsibility for the things that go wrong and placing that on the person themself.

对。

Right.

让我读一段，因为这样能更清楚地表达出来。

Let me read part of that just because it'll convey convey it more clearly.

好的。

Sure.

这段出自罗宾·沃特菲尔德翻译的《理想国》，我非常喜欢。

So this is from the Robin Waterfield translation of The Republic, I really like.

我特别喜欢罗宾·沃特菲尔德的所有译本，不仅这部，他最近还新译了马可·奥勒留的著作，译得非常好，里面也提到了守护灵，我稍后也会读一段。

I really like all of Robin Waterfield's translations both for this as well as he recently did a new translation of Marcus Aurelius that's really good that also talks about the daimon that I'll read in a little bit as well.

根据这个译本，它写道：灵魂一到达，就必须靠近拉赫西斯。

So from this translation, it says, as soon as the souls arrived, they had to approach Lachesis.

一位中介将他们排成行列。

An intermediary arranged them in rows.

然后，他从拉赫西斯膝上取过命运签和人生样本，登上高台，说道：聆听必然之女拉赫西斯的话。

And then once he'd taken from Lachesis' lap lottery tokens and sample lives, stepped up to a high rostrum and said, hear the words of Lady Lachesis, daughter of necessity.

你们这些注定要经历无常的灵魂。

You souls condemned to impermanence.

你们的生死轮回即将再次开始。

The cycle of birth followed by death is beginning again for you.

不会有神灵或守护灵被分配给你们。

No deity, no daimon will be assigned to you.

你们将自己选择自己的守护灵。

You will pick your own daimon or guardian spirit.

抽取签牌的顺序决定了选择生命顺序。

The order of gaining tokens decides the order of choosing lives.

因此，抽签的顺序决定了生命的选择，而这些生命将永远属于你们。

So the order of gaining lots decides the order of choosing lives, which will be irrevocably yours.

善良自有其准则。

Goodness makes its own rules.

你们每个人有多善良，取决于你们多么重视它。

Each of you will be good to the extent that you value it.

责任在于选择者，而非神明。

Responsibility lies with the chooser, not with God.

宣布完后，他将签条抛向人群，每个人都捡起了落在自己身边的签条。

After this announcement, he threw the lots into the crowd and everybody picked up the lot that fell beside him.

每个灵魂在捡起自己的签条后，其在抽签中的位置便明确了。

Each soul's position in the lottery was clear once he picked up his lot.

接着，中介者在他们面前的地上摆放了各种生活样本。

Next, the intermediary placed on the grounds in front of them a sample of lives.

当灵魂们选完自己的生活后，他们按照抽签所分配的顺序走向拉刻西斯。

When the souls had finished choosing their lives, they approached Lachesis in the order of the lottery that had been assigned to them.

她给予每个人他们自己选择的守护灵或代蒙，这些守护灵将伴随他们一生，实现他们所做出的选择。

She gave each of them their personal guardian spirit or daimon that they'd selected to accompany them throughout their lives as their guardians and to fulfill the choices that they had made.

每位神祇首先带领其灵魂，每个代蒙先引领其灵魂前往命运三女神之一的克洛托，让灵魂经过她的手，并穿过行星旋转的纺轮，以确认灵魂在抽签中所选择的命运。

Each deity first led its soul each daimon first led its soul to Clotho, one of the fates, to pass under her hand and under the revolving orbit of the spindle of the planets, and so as to ratify the destiny the soul had chosen in the lottery.

随后，一旦与克洛托建立了联系，神祇便带领灵魂前往另一位命运女神阿特洛波斯，由她纺线使克洛托编织的命运之网固定且不可更改。

Then once the connection had been made with her, the deity led the soul to Atropos, one of the other fates, and her spinning to make the web woven by Clotho fixed and unalterable.

于是，最终灵魂们便奔向转世与出生，进入他们的下一生。

So and then eventually the souls then go and rush into incarnation and into birth and enter into their next lives.

因此，这个神话中一个重要之处在于，它包含了‘抽签’和‘被分配命运’以及‘选择’的概念，这种偶然性即命运，与后来在希腊化占星术中发展出的‘幸运宫’概念直接相关。

So one of the reasons why this is important here is because we've got in this myth the the notion of lots and being assigned your lot and and choosing and that notion of chance, which is fortune, and it's directly connected to the notion of fortune that we find in the Lot of Fortune later once that was developed in Hellenistic astrology.

但在这里，我们首次遇到了另一个与‘宫位’相关的概念，即‘戴蒙’或‘灵体’、‘守护灵’的概念。

But here we also first encounter another concept that comes up with the lots as well, which is the concept of the daimon or the spirit or guardian spirit.

因为对于‘幸运宫’而言，如果它是第一个也是最重要的宫位，那么第二个最重要的宫位就是‘灵性宫’或‘戴蒙宫’。

Because the mere lot for the Lot of Fortune, the second if the Lot of Fortune was the first and most important lot that was developed, the second and most second most important lot that was developed was called the Lot of Spirit or the Lot of daimon.

因此，‘戴蒙’这个概念实际上与‘宫位’的概念紧密相连。

So this notion of daimon is actually very integral to and is tied in with the concept of lots as well.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

而且我们甚至可以看到，这与占星学中你能够选择自己的守护灵的观点相呼应。

And we kind of see it either even mirroring what we see in the astrological sense of you get to choose your daimon.

对吧？

Right?

精神与你的能动性、自由意志以及源于你自身意愿的事物密切相关，而幸运宫则直接与你无法控制的事物相连。

And spirit has a lot more to do with your agency, your free will, the things that come from your own volition, whereas the Lot of Fortune is directly related to the things that you cannot control.

你无法控制自己选择生命时的顺序。

You cannot control the order that you go to pick your life.

所以这里确实存在一些选择，但你仍然受到环境的限制。

So there is some choice there, but you're still constrained by circumstance.

因此，我们看到这与幸运宫和精神宫的模式相呼应和镜像，这也正是这个神话如此美妙地揭示了它们在占星学中的体现的原因。

So we see that kind of mimicking and mirroring what we see with the Lot of Fortune and Lot of Spirit, which is why this myth is just so kind of beautiful for highlighting how that shows up in the astrological world.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

For sure.

因为它本质上是在寻找命运与自由意志之间的交集。

Because it's it's trying to find the intersection between fate and free will essentially.

不过，关于这一争论的一个有趣推论是，柏拉图试图通过声称生命的选择是在投胎之前做出的，来为命运和自由意志留出空间。

Although one of the interesting implications and the things that's been subsequently debated about this debate is then Plato tries to then make room for fate and free will by saying that the choice of the life was made prior to incarnation.

如果将这一推论推向极致，一个有趣的观点是：一旦投胎转世，这一生就是预先注定的。从占星学的角度来看，出生时所绘制的星盘本就旨在揭示你未来的走向，并从生命伊始就显示出关于这一生的种种信息，这意味着，至少在宏观层面上，从出生那一刻起，这一生或许在某种程度上已被预先决定了。

So one of the things that's interesting there if you follow that implication to its fullest extent is the notion that the life itself once incarnated is predetermined, which in some ways from an astrological standpoint to the extent that the birth chart that you cast from the moment of birth is supposed to indicate your future and indicates all these different things about the life right from the very start of it implies almost in some sense that if that's true, that the life is somehow potentially predetermined at least in its broad outlines at the very least from the moment of birth.

柏拉图通过提出在出生前曾做出某种选择，为自由意志留出了空间，以此调和了这两者之间的矛盾。

Plato makes room for free will by saying that there was some sort of choice that was made prior to birth about the life, and that's how he sort of reconciles those two things.

是的。

Yeah.

但他紧接着又说，当你投胎转世时，你会忘记一切。

And then promptly says, and you forget everything when you incarnate.

所以当你活在世间时，你不会记得这些事。

So you're not gonna remember any of this when you're alive.

对。

Right.

灵魂在做出选择后，前往命运三女神那里确认并锁定他们的决定，然后还要再旅行数日，最终必须饮下忘川之水。

The souls after they choose and after they've gone to the fates to to ratify and to lock in their decision, they then travel for another few days and then they eventually end up on like the they have to drink from the river of forgetfulness.

有些灵魂喝得多，有些灵魂喝得少。

And some of the souls drink more and some of the souls drink less.

但所有这些灵魂在出生后都会因此忘记他们所做的选择。

But all of them then as a result of that forget the choice that they made when they're born.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

对。

Yeah.

这很重要，因为我们在这里有了关于选择或命运的基本观念，它们部分是一种分配。

So this is important because we've got here our basic notions of choice or basic notions of fortune then as partially an allotment.

就像你被分配到的、通过分配获得的东西。

It's like what you've been allotted and what you've received through the distribution.

然后你还有守护灵或精神，某种意义上它与选择相关联。

And then you have daimon or spirit, which in some sense is being associated with choice.

我们将在占星文本中看到，精神和精神命点不仅与选择和行为相关，也与个体的智力和灵魂相关联。

And we'll see in the astrological texts that spirit and Lot of spirit gets associated not with choice and actions, but also with the intellect and with the soul of the native.

这一点同样非常重要，值得思考和进一步探讨。

And that's really important as well and something to to think about and expand on.

是的。

Yeah.

幸运点主要与月亮相关，而灵点则与太阳相关。

The Lot of Fortune has connections with the Moon primarily, and then the Lot of Spirit has connections with the Sun.

所以，月亮更像你的身体和物质境遇，而太阳则代表理智、思维和精神。

So, you know, the moon being more like your body and your material circumstances and then the sun being that of the intellect and the mind and the spirit.

因此，这种观念也延伸到了幸运点和灵点之中。

So that kind of carries that notion over into the Lot of Fortune and the Lot of Spirit as well.

对。

Yeah.

我这里正好有一段相关的引文，因为我们现在正谈到这个。

And I actually have a quote about that here since we're getting into that now.

这是二世纪占星家瓦登斯·瓦伦斯在讨论幸运点和灵点含义时所说的话。

So this is from the second century astrologer Vadius Valens when he's talking about the meaning of the Lot of Fortune and the Lot of Spirit.

这是罗伯特·施密特的译本。

This is from Robert Schmidt's translation.

他说：‘命点与灵点对行为的推动与逆转具有巨大影响力。’

He says, whence the Lot of Fortune and the Lot of Spirit will have much power over the imposing and turning back of actions.

其中，命点关乎身体、手工艺或手工劳动，而灵点及其主宰星或宫主则关乎灵魂、理智，以及通过言辞、给予与接受所进行的行动。

For the one, the Lot of Fortune shows matters concerning the body and handicrafts or work with the hands, but the Lot of Spirit and its ruler or domicile master shows matters concerning the soul and the intellect and actions through discourse and through giving and receiving.

这一点非常重要，因为它明确区分了命点与身体相关，而灵点则与心智或理智相关。

So that's really important, like, distinction there where the Lot of Fortune is being associated with the body and the Lot of Spirit is being associated with the mind or the intellect.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

当我们引入像星座释放这样的技术时，这一点甚至更加明显，你可以追踪某些时间段——当你观察命点时，能了解健康状况的起伏；当你观察灵点时，则能了解智力或行动能力的波动。

And that goes even further when we're bringing in techniques like zodiacal releasing and when you can track certain time periods, so when you're gonna have ebb and flows with health, when you look at Lot of Fortune, and then ebb and flows of intellect or being able to take actions.

我认为瓦伦斯曾提到过，从灵点出发进行星座释放，可以指示精神困扰或精神清晰的时期。

And I think at one point, Valens even says that a lot of spirit and zodiacal releasing from that point can indicate periods of mental distress or mental clarity.

是的

Yeah.

所以 Native 的精神状态有时好，有时差。

So the mental state of the native, which can sometimes be good or sometimes be bad.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

没错。

Exactly.

好的。

Okay.

这一点很重要，因为‘daimon’这个概念直接关联着‘灵之命点’中的‘daimon’这个词。

So this is important, this concept of the daimon because it's directly tied in with daimon being the word that's used for the Lot of Spirit.

理解其含义在概念上很重要，因为对于‘daimon’是什么、如何运作或起什么作用，有不同的理解方式。

And understanding what that means is important conceptually because there's different conceptualizations of what the daimon is and how it works or what it does.

其中一些差异你已经可以从柏拉图以及《乌尔神话》中对‘daimon’的描述中看到，人们对‘daimon’的理解本身就存在不同解读。

And some of that already you can already see that there's different interpretations or different interpretations that you can take of what the daimon is even just from Plato and from how that's being described in the myth of Ur.

因此，人们对这一点有不同的解读和不同的结论。

So different possible interpretations and different conclusions that people draw from that.

有些人将守护灵视为一种内在的指南针或直觉，代表每个灵魂内在的倾向与潜能，这些影响着他们的生活选择。

Some interpret the daimon as being an internal compass or a sort of intuition representing the innate tendencies and potential within each soul that influence their life choices.

另一些人则认为它是一种外部的引导灵体，如同守护天使或灵性导师，帮助人们在一生中应对选择与机遇。

Others view it as an external guiding spirit like a guardian angel or a spirit guide that helps navigate choices and opportunities throughout life.

此外，还有一种相关的概念是，守护灵也可以被视为既定命运中固定不变的方面，以及个体行使自由意志时所依赖的不可改变的参数。

Additionally, a third conceptualization that's related is that the daimon could also be seen as a symbolic representation of the fixed aspects of a chosen destiny and the unchangeable parameters with which the individual exercises free will or within which the individual exercises free will.

这非常重要，因为在占星术之外的古代文献中，有时会将守护灵描述为某种外部的守护灵体，以某种方式影响着你。

So this is really important because in the ancient texts outside of astrology, sometimes you have this notion of the daimon as this, like, external guardian spirit that's somehow influencing you.

有趣的是，哲学和宗教领域广泛讨论过守护灵作为中介灵体的概念，这些灵体能够在天界、神界与不朽领域，以及我们这些凡人所处的尘世或月下世界之间来回穿梭。

And what's interesting about that is there is a lot of broader discussions in philosophy and religion about the concept of daimons being these intermediary spirits that have the ability to go back and forth between the celestial realm and the realm of the gods and the realm of immortality versus the terrestrial world or the sublunary world of physical incarnation where we're we're living here as mortals and that these guardians, these daimons, these spirits are these intermediaries between those two worlds that sort of travel back and forth.

因此，在某些文本中，它们被讨论为能够在外在世界中行动或产生影响的外部存在。

So they get discussed sometimes as like these external things then that are capable of acting or of doing things in the external world in in some texts.

而在其他文本中，守护灵——尤其是每个人所被赋予的个人守护灵——更多地与内在过程相关联，被视为个体的指挥中心或理智的体现。

Whereas there's other texts where the daimon and especially the person's personal daimon that's assigned to them gets associated more with this internal process of it being the commanding center or the intellect of the native in some sense.

因此，它不再仅仅是某种纯粹外部的东西，而是变得更加内在化，更贴近个人。

So that instead of something that's purely external, it becomes something that's more internalized and is more personal to them.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

我认为在许多魔法传统中，你还可以通过安抚你的守护灵来让它为你效力，或者说让你的现实发生改变；如果你将它视为外在于你的灵体，而非仅仅是一个内在的指南，你就可以与它建立关系。

And I think in a lot of magical traditions, you're also able to, like, propitiate your daimon to do your bidding, so to speak, or to make things happen in your reality so you can have a relationship with your daimon if you're viewing it as an external spirit outside of yourself rather than just that internal compass.

但人们显然对此有着非常不同的信念和立场。

But people have obviously very different beliefs and where they land on that.

对。

Yeah.

而且我认为，即使在古代占星学界内部，也存在多种观点，因为我们看到占星家兼哲学家波菲利曾与另一位哲学家扬布利科斯进行过对话，波菲利谈到可以通过计算命主星或命盘的总体统治者，来识别守护灵。

And I think even within the astrological community in ancient astrology, there was a range of beliefs because we see on the one hand, the astrologer and philosopher Porphyry at one point has this dialogue with another philosopher named Iamblichus where Porphyry talks about the potential of calculating the master of the nativity or the overall ruler of the chart and that some astrologers, he says, used that in order to identify the guardian spirit.

据说，你可以通过某种方式召唤或安抚这个守护灵，向它提出请求，以某种方式改变你的命运，因为守护灵的职责本就是监督你是否遵循命运，确保你走上应走的道路。

And then the idea supposedly was that you could somehow then invoke or propitiate the guardian spirit and make a request for it to change your fate in some ways because the guardian spirit was also the thing that was supposed to be essentially here watching to make sure that you did follow your fate and that you were supposed to follow that path.

于是，奥尔弗里和安普利库斯之间就这个问题展开了争论：如果守护灵就在那里，它的职责是让你遵循命运，那你怎么可能通过召唤它来改变自己的命运呢？

And so then there was this debate between Orphuri and the Amplicus about whether that made any sense because if the guardian spirit is here and it's supposed to be the thing that's making you follow your fate, then how are you supposed to be able to invoke it in order to change your fate?

这真的可能吗？

And is that really possible?

关于这个话题，他们曾有过一场著名的争论。

Was a famous debate that they had over that topic.

是的。

Yeah.

而正是在这个地方，出现了‘精灵’作为中介的概念。

And that's where that intermediary concept of the daimon comes in.

通过命运女神、摩伊拉或宙斯等人，来判断命运是否能够被改变，以及这种改变是否真的会发生。

With the fates or the moai rai or Zeus or whoever to see if that fate was able to be changed and whether that does, you know, happen.

然后你的处境和物质现实随之改变，正是在这种观念下，魔法视角大量介入——即你无法改变命运。

And then your circumstances and your material reality change, and that's where that magical kind of perspective perspective comes comes in in quite a bit with the notion that you can't change your fate.

但你可以通过仪式、安抚你的精灵或类似方式来改变你的处境。

You can change your circumstances by engaging in ritual or propitiating your daimon or things of that nature.

对。

Right.

所以这绝对是这个传统里的一个重要部分，无论是在哲学、文化还是甚至占星学领域都是如此，波菲利和阿普列乌斯都提到过，有不少占星学家都在研究这个内容。

So that was definitely one major part of the tradition both in philosophy and culture and in astrology even that Porphyry and the Abdicus talk about that some astrologers were engaged in.

不过我还注意到另一部分内容，我认为它和斯多葛学派的联系更紧密，斯多葛学派在希腊化传统的早期阶段，对占星学家的影响往往更为深远。

There was this other part though that I've seen that I think is more connected with the Stoic school, which especially earlier in the Hellenistic tradition, I think tended to influence the astrologers more strongly.

我们会发现像瓦迪乌斯·瓦伦斯、马尼留斯以及其他一些占星学家，都更倾向于斯多葛主义，尤其倾向于将占星学本身视作对命运的研究，认为绝大多数事物、或者说大部分事物都是预先注定的。

And we can see astrologers like especially Vadius Valens or Manilius or some of the others being much more inclined towards stoicism and inclined especially towards viewing astrology itself as the study of fate and viewing things as being predetermined to a much greater extent or to a large extent.

所以在像瓦伦斯这样的人中，也包括其他倾向于斯多葛学派的同代人，其中最著名的是马可·奥勒留，他是二世纪中叶的一位皇帝。

So in some of those people like Valens, but also in other stoic inclined contemporaries, like one of the most prominent is Marcus Aurelius, was an emperor in the middle of the second century.

他是罗马帝国的皇帝，同时也是一位斯多葛派哲学家，写了一本通常被称为《沉思录》的书。

He was the emperor of the Roman Empire, but he was also a stoic philosopher who wrote a book that's usually referred to as The Meditations.

在马可·奥勒留的著作中，他频繁谈及并提及守护灵，但他更多将其称为世界灵魂的一个碎片或碎屑，因为他们相信整个宇宙本身是有生命的，是一个有意识的生命体，其身体如同我们可见的物质世界，但同时拥有一个灵魂，这个灵魂遍布其中，并以智慧、意义和目的连接万物。

In Marcus Aurelius, he very frequently talks about the daimon and refers to it, but he refers to it more as this like this piece or this shard of the world soul because they believed that the entire cosmos itself was alive and was a living sentient being that had a body that is like the physical world that we can see, but then also had a soul which is infused throughout it and connects everything with intelligence and meaning and purpose.

他们相信我们个体的灵魂和守护灵就像是那个世界灵魂的碎片，即使在我们肉体化身为人的时候也存在于我们体内。

And they believed that our individual soul in daimon was like a shard of that world soul that was within us even while we were physically incarnated.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

所以我这里有一段引文。

So I have a quote from that.

马可·奥勒留，这段引文出自罗宾·沃特菲尔德的新译本，我非常喜欢他的翻译，也喜欢他的注释，推荐每个人都去读一读，尤其是对希腊化时期占星术感兴趣的人，因为我认为马可的哲学可能是与瓦伦斯最接近的，能帮助你更好地理解瓦伦斯在占星文本中所表达的许多哲学和斯多葛式思想。

So Marcus Aurelius, this is from the new Robin Waterfield translation, which I love both for his translation but also for the commentary and I recommend everybody get, especially those that are interested in Hellenistic astrology because I think Marcus's philosophy is probably some of the closest to Valens that you're gonna find and can help you to understand a lot of the philosophical and more stoic philosophical sentiments that Valens expresses in his astrological text.

马可·奥勒留有一段话是这么说的：‘与神同在的人，是其灵魂始终向神展现为安于命运、顺从守护灵旨意的人——这守护灵是宙斯或神赐予每个人的片段，作为其守护者与指挥中心。’

So one of the quotes from Marcus Aurelius is it says, the man who lives with the gods is the one whose soul is constantly on display to them as content with its lot and obedient to the will of the guardian spirit, the fragment of himself that Zeus or God has granted every person to act as his custodian and command center.

在我们每个人身上，这便是理性与心智。

And in each of us, this is the mind and reason.

这很有趣，因为他谈到守护灵是由命运——本质上是宇宙、神或 cosmos——赋予我们的，同时也指出我们内在的守护灵代表了理性与心智，是我们生命的指挥中心。

So it's interesting because he's talking about the guardian spirit being assigned to us by Lot, essentially by the universe or God or the cosmos, but also saying that the guardian spirit in us is representing mind and reason and is our commanding center.

它正是以某种方式赋予我们身体活力并推动其行动的东西，就像我们所理解的，我们的思想通过身体实现我们所做的选择。

It's the thing that's animating and moving our body in the same way that we have the conceptualization of like our mind actualizing the choices that we make through our body essentially.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为瓦伦斯在描述灵运点时，将其定义为激发灵魂行动的东西。

And I think in Valens' description of the Lot of Spirit, he defines it as something that stirs your soul into action.

因此，我们会将这理解为心智、理智和推理能力，正是这些能力使我们能够走向世界并付诸行动。

And so we would think about that as being the mind and the intellect and the reasoning capacity decisions that enable us to go out into the world and do things.

对吧？

Right?

所以我认为，马可·奥勒留和瓦伦斯对灵运点的描述之间存在着非常明显的平行关系。

So I think we see that with really strong parallel between Marcus Aurelius and Valens' description of a lot of spirit coming through there.

没错。

Exactly.

我认为这非常重要，因为在马可·奥勒留以及由此延伸至瓦伦斯的观念中，守护灵或精灵被理解为一种内在的东西，即使人们承认它是由外部赋予或源自别处，它仍然是你自身的一部分。

And I think that's really important because in Marcus and then also in Valens as a result of that, I think there is a conceptualization of the guardian spirit or the daimon as being more of this internalized thing that's sort of part of you even if there's a recognition of it being assigned or coming from elsewhere.

但它对你来说更加个性化，而不是仅仅作为一个外部的、不可知的灵体之类的东西。

But it's much more personalized to you rather than just being this external unknowable spirit or something like that.

我认为这在大多数情况下让我们更接近实际的核心概念，尤其是‘灵点’，在占星传统中，它始终与心智、智力以及命主的个人意志选择或行为相关。

And I think that gets us much closer in most cases to the actual underlying conceptualization, especially if the Lot of Spirit, which is consistently in the astrological tradition treated as having to do with the mind and the intellect and the choices or acts of personal volition of the native.

是的。

Yeah.

这是星盘中一个非常个人化的点，它几乎突显了你个性中的一部分，是你对待生活的一般方式中的决策特质，而这些特质有时在星盘的其他部分中找不到。

It's a very personal point in the chart where it almost highlights an element of your personality, of your decision making about how you approach life more generally speaking that sometimes you don't find in other parts of the chart.

一个人可能非常维纳斯化，比如上升星座是天秤座，金星落入金牛座并掌管着它。

Someone could maybe be incredibly Venusian and have, you know, Libra, Ascendant, and Venus ruling that in Taurus.

但突然间，他们的灵点落在白羊座，展现出一种非常尚武的倾向，以及一种决策和行动的方式，这可能与我们通常对如此典型的维纳斯化人物的预期不符。

And then all of a sudden, their lot of spirit is in Aries, and they have a very martial disposition to them and a way of going about making decisions and acting in the world that we maybe wouldn't associate with someone who is so typically Venusian.

这就是为什么诸点能提供一种近乎透镜般的视角，让我们看到一个人内在的样貌。

And that's why the Lots can provide almost like this you know, lens on the person and who they are internally as well.

而‘灵点’尤其能以一种强大且令人信服的方式凸显这一点，我认为这对一些人来说具有很强的认同感。

And a lot of spirit specifically can highlight that, I think, in a really powerful and validating way for some people.

当然。

For sure.

definitely。

Definitely.

好的。

Okay.

我想我们已经解释得相当清楚了，虽然进展缓慢，但有些人可能希望我们快一点。

I think we have explained that pretty well, and this is actually although moving slowly, some people might want us to move faster.

我觉得这其实是在不断积累的，因为现在我认为可以引入灵点的计算方法，同时也能说明我2007年发现的这些计算方式背后的深层理念，这或许是个很好的过渡点来进入这个话题。

I think it's actually building on itself quite well because now I think it might be good to go into we could actually introduce the calculation for Lot of Spirit, but then also get to the underlying conceptual motivation for why the calculations are the way they are that I discovered back in 2007, and this might be the good transition point to get into that.

是的。

Yeah.

听起来完美。

Sounds perfect.

如果你想更多了解我对占星学的方法，我推荐你阅读我的著作《希腊占星学：命运与财富的研究》，书中详细探讨了古代占星学的历史、哲学与技术，从初学者逐步引导到中级和高级的命盘解读技巧。

If you'd like to learn more about my approach to astrology, then I'd recommend checking out my book titled Hellenistic Astrology, The Study of Fate and Fortune, where I go over the history, philosophy, and techniques of ancient astrology, taking people from beginner up through intermediate and advanced techniques for reading birth charts.

你可以通过亚马逊或其他在线零售商购买这本书的纸质版，或者通过谷歌图书获取电子版。

You can get a print copy of the book through Amazon or other online retailers or there's an ebook version available through Google Books.

好的。

Alright.

那么，让我们转到更深入地讨论命运与精神的含义，以及这些计算背后的原理。

So let's transition to talking about the meanings of fortune and spirit a little bit more and the rationale underlying the calculations.

以下是多里安·格林鲍姆翻译的保罗·亚历山大里努斯的一段话，他在谈论命运的含义、命运星点以及精神星点的意义。

So here's a quote from Dorian Greenbaum's translation of Paulus Alexandrinus where he's talking about the meaning of fortune and the meaning of the Lot of Fortune and the meaning of the Lot of Spirit.

他说，命运象征着身体以及一生中的所有行为和活动。

So he says, fortune signifies all things about the body and action throughout life.

它代表着获得、声誉和特权。

It becomes indicative of acquisition, reputation, and privilege.

然后他说，精神星点掌管灵魂、性情、知觉以及所有的能力或天赋，有时它也会参与对一个人所作所为的推算。

Then he says the Lot of Spirit happens to be lord of soul, temper, sense, and every capability or faculty, and there are times when it cooperates in the reckoning about what one does.

所谓‘一个人所作所为’，指的是一个人的职业或事业。

What one does, meaning one's occupation or career.

这非常重要，这是我们在希腊化文献中反复遇到的关于命运与精神之间差异的基本区分。

So this is really important and this is our basic distinction then that comes up over and over again in the Hellenistic texts about the difference between fortune and spirit.

命运指的是与身体相关的事物，涉及你用身体所进行的行动，但也包括物质财富的获取、物质财富，以及特权——这种特权不是你主动选择的结果，而是由环境决定的，你在生活的某个领域拥有某种特权。

That fortune is like things that have to do with the body, things that happen to do with the hands that you do with the physical body, but also things like acquisition of material goods and material wealth, privilege, which is something that you receive not as a result of choice, but as a result of circumstance, you have a privilege in some area of your life.

特权的一个例子是什么？

What's an example of privilege?

比如生来就富有，可能就是一种特权的例子。

Like being born into wealth, for example, might be an example of privilege.

是的。

Yeah.

我在想那些靠父母的富二代。

I'm thinking of nepo babies.

在那种情况下，你生来就拥有相当多的特权。

You're born into quite a bit of privilege in those circumstances.

没错。

Exactly.

这真有趣。

That's that's funny.

我们会看到一些实际的例子，比如那些出生在第四宫有大量财富的人，他们生来就家境富裕。

We'll we'll see some actual examples of that of people at like the fourth house that were born into like a wealthy family with a lot of fortune in the fourth house.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

我想在我们的一个例子中，有玛丽·安托瓦内特，她的幸运点统治者位于第四宫。

I think in one of our examples, have Marie Antoinette, she has the ruler of her Lot of Fortune in the fourth house.

因此你可以看到，她也出生在一个王室家庭。

And so you can see how she was born into a royal family as well.

所以，幸运点在某些方面会告诉你很多关于命主出生时所处环境的信息，这些环境并非由他们自己的选择决定。

So there are certain ways that the Lot of Fortune is also just going to tell you a lot about what circumstances the native is born into through no capacity of their own, through things that were not their choice.

对。

Right.

当然。

For sure.

或者有时在人生的后期，他们会遇到一些顺利的境遇。

Or areas sometimes even later in life that they'll be successful, they'll have fortunate circumstances in.

这一点非常重要，因为二十世纪占星学以及人本主义和心理学占星学的兴起，强调了自由意志和选择，避免陷入过于宿命论的态度，我认为这是很好的。

And that's something that's really important to think about because one of the great One of the good things about twentieth century astrology and the rise of humanistic and psychological astrology is it put a lot of focus on free will and choice and not giving into an overly fatalistic attitude of the things, which I think was good.

但二十世纪人本主义占星学的一个缺陷是，它往往不知道如何应对那些超出个人控制范围的事物——这个世界上，以及我们的人类经验中，有很多事情是超出我们控制的，比如一些偶然发生的境遇，无论你多么希望改变，它们都完全不在你的选择范围之内。

But one of the things One of the shortcomings of twentieth century humanistic astrology is it doesn't often know how to deal with and it doesn't have a good grasp on dealing with things that are outside of a person's control, of which there are many things in this world and our experience of human life that are outside of our control that are like circumstances and stuff that just happens that you don't have control over and that is outside of the realm of your choice no matter how much you might want it to be otherwise.

这正是命运在这里发挥作用的部分。

That's part of where fortune is coming into play here.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，当存在某种命运因素时，这对一些人来说其实是一种很大的安慰。

And I think that can be really validating for some people too when there's an element of fate.

并不是所有责任都压在你一个人肩上。

It doesn't all rest on your shoulders.

并不是所有事情都取决于你付出了多少努力。

Not everything is a product of how much effort that you've put into something.

有时候，事情就是很糟。

Like, sometimes stuff just sucks.

你知道的。

You know?

有时候坏事就是会发生，这并不是你的错。

Sometimes bad things just happen, and that's not your fault.

这仅仅是命运和环境的结果。

That's just a product of fate and circumstance.

是的。

Yeah.

这一直是我特别坚持的观点，尤其是在2000年代中期，当时《秘密》和吸引力法则之类的概念非常流行。

And that has always been especially I was much more adamant about this in the mid two thousands when stuff like The Secret and like laws of attraction manifestation stuff was much more in vogue.

那时几乎有一种信念，认为你能够吸引或实现生活中的一切。

And there was almost this belief that you could manifest or you could do anything in your life.

而且如果一个人没有成功，或者遭遇了不幸的境遇，几乎就会让人觉得这是他们的错，因为他们没有努力去吸引好事发生。

And that if you don't or if you had bad circumstances happen, there was almost this implication that it was like your fault for, like, not willing something good to happen instead.

我认为，这个观点中有一些重要的积极方面，可以防止人们陷入宿命论，但也有非常糟糕的一面，因为从心理上和形而上学上来说，告诉人们他们生活中最糟糕的境遇是因为他们想得不够好、想得不够多，这种说法是错误的。

And I think while there's some good things about that idea that are important so as to not give into a sort of fatalism, there's also some really bad things because it's really both psychologically as well as like metaphysically, I think wrong to tell people that some of the worst circumstances in their life are things that could have been different if only they had thought differently or thought better.

我不认为这一定是真的。

And I don't think that's necessarily true.

确实有很多事情是我们无法控制的，它们与我们的处境、运气或命运有关。

There truly are a lot of things that are outside of our control that have to do with our circumstances and chance or fortune.

是的。

Yeah.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

这就像是告诉一个患有慢性病的人，他们只是不够努力地祈求不要生病。

It's like telling someone who has a chronic illness that they just didn't wish hard enough to not be sick.

这很残忍，你知道的，而且既不真实，也不正确。

It's cruel, you know, and it's not real or true either.

所以我认为，你在这两个极端中任何一个走得太远都不好，要么变得过于宿命论，以至于觉得反正我什么都不做也没关系。

And so I think you can go too far on either end of the spectrum where you become too fatalistic, and then it's like, well, I just won't do anything.

我不会从沙发上起来，也不会努力去创造生活。

I won't get off the couch, and I won't try to make life happen.

而另一个极端则是认为我对一切都有绝对的控制力。

And then there's the other end where it's like, I have ultimate control over everything.

我觉得，也许最健康的方式是在这两者之间找到一个平衡：有些事情确实超出了我们的控制范围，这没关系，而有些事情我们还是可以努力促成的。

And I think, you know, maybe the healthiest thing is to find a nice in between of those where certain things fall out of your, you know, control, and that's okay, and certain things you can make happen.

而正是在这一点上，我们迎接生活中的机遇，并尽己所能去创造改变。

And that's where we greet life's opportunities and try to make stuff happen to the degree that we can.

对。

Right.

没错。

Exactly.

所以，正是在这里，命运与精神才发挥作用。

So and that is where fortune and spirit come in.

所以，正如我们之前谈到身体时提到的，命运是那些发生的事情。

So fortune, as we were talking about body, things that happen.

另一方面，精神则处于光谱的另一端；当占星师谈到精神时，他们通常指的是灵魂、智力，以及命主所拥有的选择、行动或个人意志，还有他们因实现内在的智力思维或有时是灵魂本身而带入生活中的实际选择，这些最终会在世界上显现出来。

Spirit on the other hand is the other end of the spectrum where when the astrologers talk about spirit, they tend to be talking about the soul, the intellect, and the sense of choice, action, or personal volition that the native has and the actual choices that they make and the things that they bring into their life as a result of actualizing their internal, either intellectual mind or another perspective sometimes can be actualizations of the soul itself that are then coming about and being manifested in the world.

是的。

Yeah.

我常常认为，精神很像你投生于此所要完成的事，是你在更宏大的层面上感到被驱使或被吸引的方向，这时‘引导性的精灵’或‘灵性’的概念就特别有帮助。

I often think of a lot of a spirit as almost like what you're incarnated to do, what you feel compelled towards or drawn to on some greater scale, which is where that idea of maybe like a guiding daimon or spirit is really helpful.

因为有时候你就是觉得你必须做某件事。

Because sometimes you just feel like you have to do something.

比如，你生来就是要创造，或生来就是要组建家庭，无论是什么，都有一种近乎强迫的力量在推动你。

Like, you were born to create or born to have a family or whatever it might be, and there's that almost compulsion there.

你的内在指南针，可以说，就是朝向那个方向的。

Your inner compass, so to speak, is directed in that direction.

因此，精神宫位真正指向的是那种目的，那种让你从沙发上站起来的根本动机。

And so the Lot of Spirit is really gonna speak to that purpose, that underlying motivation for why do you get up off the couch?

你明白我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

For sure.

那么，你无法控制的外部环境（即命运）与你能够控制的内在因素（即精神）之间的交集是什么？这两者之间的交集又是什么？

And and just what is the intersection between the circumstances that are outside of your control, which are fortune versus the circumstances that are actually within your control, which is spirit and the intersection between those two things?

这可能是最重要的事情，如果我要思考的话，那就是命盘中的命点，尤其是精神命点和命运命点，它们最重要的作用——不仅在看本命盘的位置时，也在通过像星座释放这样的定时技术时——能够帮助我们看到这两者之间的交集，识别并有时区分哪些是与机遇、命运和外部环境相关的，哪些是与选择、个人意志以及命主通过自身努力和追求主动创造的生活相关的。

That's something that is probably the most important thing, I guess, if I was to think about it that the lots, especially Lot of Spirit and the Lot of Fortune do, especially in their applications, just in looking at their natal placement, but also through timing techniques like zodiacal releasing is the ability to see the intersection between those two and identify and sometimes be able to separate the things that have to do with chance and fortune and external circumstances versus the things that have to do with choice and personalition and what the native is actively trying to bring about in their life through their own striving and through their own efforts.

是的。

Yeah.

我一直在期待能有软件同时显示这两个命点，这样就能看到它们如何相互作用，比如某些事情可能是由命运命点引发的，而你又能看到自己如何通过精神命点做出回应，而不用在不同屏幕间来回切换。

I'm eternally wishing for a software to show both at the same time so you can see the ways that they're kind of playing together and how certain thing like things might be happening from the Lot of Fortune, and then you get to see how you respond from the Lot of Spirit without having to click back and forth from a couple different screens to the next.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，从命魂宫进行星座释放，并结合命运宫的角度来观察，一个很有趣的地方在于，这些时期往往对应着一个人生命中的真正转折点——此时，他们所努力追求的目标，尤其是在事业或人生方向上的志向，会突然与外部环境和可获得的机遇产生契合，使他们成为那个在正确的时间、正确的地点、做正确事情的人，从而得以实现目标。我们有时能在一些成为总统的人的星盘中看到这种现象：他们恰好在正确的时间出现在正确的地点，同时也在正确的时刻做出正确的选择；而相反的情况则是，有些人身处错误的地点，是错误的人，做着错误的事；或者即使他们做的是对的事，但时机不对，比如他们具备良好的内在品质和潜力，但外部环境却因超出他们控制的因素，阻碍了他们在那个时刻取得成功。

Well and and one of the cool things about doing zodiac releasing from a lot of spirit and then looking at the angles from the Lot of Fortune is that those are the times where you see the actual turning points in a person's life where what they're trying to accomplish and what they're trying to do often in terms of their career or their overall life direction suddenly falls into alignment with their external circumstances and the things that are available to them so that they find themselves to be the right person who's at the right place in the right time, and they're able to then accomplish that thing, which sometimes you see show up in the charts of people who become president, for example, because they're in they're the person that's there at the right time at the right place, but also is doing the right thing and making the choices at the right moment as opposed to think about the opposite scenario, which is like the person who's in the wrong place is like the wrong person that's doing the wrong thing or even if they're doing the right thing, but they're doing it at the wrong time, let's say, that they're making actions and maybe they have good internal qualities and potential, but maybe their circumstances just don't allow for them to be successful at that time through things that are outside of their control.

是的。

Yeah.

而这就是为什么在生活中，有时候你得多次尝试同一件事。

And that's where, you know, sometimes in life, you have to give something a go a couple different times.

你可能十年前就尝试过某件事，但当时的环境根本不允许它发生；后来你再次尝试，这在我们常看到的‘纽带断裂’和‘预示期’中就有体现：一个人在预示期种下种子，试图推动某事，但环境却说：‘现在还不是时候。’

You might try to do something ten years prior and the circumstances were just not making it happen for you, and then you try again, which we kind of see with, you know, the loosing of the bond and the foreshadowing period a lot of the time where someone will plant the seed during the foreshadowing period, try to make something happen, and circumstance will come around and say, not right now.

然后，它会在转折点或‘纽带断裂’期再次回来。

And then it comes back around during the turning point or the losing of the bond.

因此，我们甚至可以通过星座释放来观察，什么时候才会真正契合，什么时候才是属于你的时机。

And so there's ways that we can even look at that in the context of zodiacal releasing and see when is it gonna line up, when is it gonna be that time for you.

所以，确实有很多方式可以解读这一点，这非常有帮助，因为当人们努力想做成某事，却不断遭遇一个又一个障碍时，这种感觉会非常令人沮丧。

So, yeah, there's a lot of ways that that can be, you know, delineated as well, which is just really helpful because sometimes it can feel really frustrating for people when they're trying to make something happen and just running into roadblock after roadblock after roadblock, and that can get very discouraging.

但当你意识到，哦，嘿。

But when you're able to see, oh, hey.

坚持一下。

Just, like, hang in there.

几年后，就会轮到你了，这会让人感到非常被理解和支持。

You know, a couple years down the line, it will be your time, that can be very validating and affirming.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

还有两点。

And and two things.

第一，我们会多次提到星座释放，但我单独做了一期关于星座释放的完整节目。

One, you know, we're gonna refer to zodiac releasing a few times, but I did a full episode on zodiac releasing in a separate episode.

所以如果你想更深入了解，可以在播客或我的YouTube频道上搜索我之前关于星座释放的那期节目。

So for more of an introduction to that, just search for my earlier episode on zodiacal releasing on the podcast or on my YouTube channel.

其次，关于在正确的时间身处正确的地方，或者在正确的时间做出选择的人与没有这样的人之间的区别，我认为这正是创造‘命盘分度’技术、尤其是‘命运之分度’和‘精神之分度’的人们试图解决和回答的核心问题。他们试图建立一种方法，用以识别命运、境遇、机遇以及那些超出个人控制范围的事物。

But two, talking about this of being in the right place at the right time or the person making the choices at the right time versus not, That I think is the fundamental thing that the person or the astrologers who developed this technique of lots and especially Lot of Fortune and Lot of Spirit was trying to address and was trying to answer and to develop means what they were trying to do is they were trying to develop a means to identify fortune and circumstances and chance and things that are outside of a person's control.

他们同时也试图识别选择、个人意志与理智，即那些在个人掌控之内的因素。

And they were trying to also identify choice and personal volition and intellect and the things that are within a person's control.

所以，想象一下，如果你还没有一套占星体系，但你意识到‘机遇’与‘选择’是两大核心概念，于是你想开发一套这样的体系。

And so the like, imagine if you didn't have a system for astrology that in astrology yet, but you wanted to develop one because you realized that there's these two major concepts of chance versus choice.

你可能会想：我们该如何设计一种技术，来在星盘中看出这两者的区别呢？

And you said to yourself, you know, how could we develop a technique to see that in the chart?

大约在公元前二世纪或公元前一世纪，有人正是带着这样的哲学问题，创造了这种技术，试图在出生星盘中将生命中的这两个领域区分开来。

Somebody around like the second century BCE or first century BCE had that philosophical problem in mind and they developed this technique as a way to try to isolate those two domains of life in a birth chart.

我相信，当他们发展出这项技术，或者在实际运用中发现这个概念时，正是为了实现这一目的。

And I believe actually when they developed that technique or when they discovered this concept in actually doing that.

是的。

Yeah.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

如果你经常使用它，就会发现它非常神奇，能够清晰地显示出某些事情何时会发生在你身上，而这些事情是超出你控制范围的。

If you work with it enough, it's pretty incredible to see it come to life and to see how accurate it is and showing you when certain things are going to be, you know, happening to you outside of the realm of your control.

比如，生病或遭遇车祸通常会通过幸运点体现出来，而精神点则会告诉你，什么时候你会因为主动抓住机会而在职业生活中获得晋升或其他机遇。

Like, getting sick or getting in a car accident will often show up from the Lot of Fortune, and then the Lot of Spirit will show you, you know, when are you gonna get promoted or, like, have something happen in your professional world because you went after an opportunity.

因此，作为一种技术，它非常神奇。

So it's pretty incredible as a technique.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一种展示好运与厄运的技术，同时也将我们日常语言中的一种概念引入了占星学，即如何识别一个人有时非常幸运的领域，以及如何识别一个人非常不幸的领域。

And a technique for showing good fortune and bad fortune, but also showing this concept that we have in our normal everyday language, but putting it into astrology which is how to identify areas where sometimes a person is very fortunate versus how do you identify areas where a person is very unfortunate.

这些可以作为分析这些点——尤其是幸运点本身——的良好关键词，用以区分好运的领域和厄运的领域。

And those are sometimes good keywords for looking at some of these, especially the Lot of Fortune itself as areas of good fortune and areas of bad fortune.

如果我们把‘好运’概念化为代表那些发生在人身上的、超出其控制范围的境遇。

If we're conceptualizing fortune especially as representing circumstances outside of a person's control that sort of happened to them.

是的，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

好的。

All right.

这将带我们回到计算部分，因为我想向你们展示，为什么灵与运在2007年我的一项发现中具有这样的含义。

So that's gonna bring us back to the calculations because I want to show you why spirit and fortune mean what they mean from a discovery I made back in 2007.

想象一下，你生活在公元前二世纪，你已经有了出生图的概念，也许还有上升点的概念，但你想进一步区分出个人主动行为与偶然或命运的作用。

Imagine like we said that you're somebody in the second century BCE, you have the concept of the birth chart, you may have the concept of the Ascendant, but you want to figure out a way to specify further acts of volition versus acts of chance or fortune.

于是他们提出了这些计算方法，我们已经讨论过，命运宫的计算公式是什么？在我共享屏幕前，你先说一下？

So they came up with these calculations, and we've already talked about how the calculation for the Lot of Fortune is what are the what do you wanna say the calculation real quick while I share the screen?

代数公式？

The algebraic formulation?

我们先讲几何方法吧。

Well, let's do the geometric one.

几何方法的话，我先快速共享一下屏幕，然后亲自画给你们看。

So the geometric one let me share my screen really quickly here, and I'll actually draw it out.

好了。

There we go.

哦，完美。

Oh, perfect.

因此，根据保卢斯和其他大多数希腊占星家的描述，日间图中命富点的几何计算方法是：从太阳的度数开始，测量到月亮的度数之间的距离。

So the geometric calculation for the Lot of Fortune as it's described in Paulus and most of the other Hellenistic astrologers is in a day chart, you start from the degree of the sun, and then you measure the distance to the degree of the moon.

然后从上升点出发，测量相同的距离。

And then you measure the same distance out from the Ascendant.

但有趣的是，他们指出，这个计算方法会根据是日间图还是夜间图而有所不同。

But then they say interestingly, the the calculation switches depending on if you have a day or a night chart.

他们说，如果是夜间图，计算命富点时需要反过来：从月亮的度数开始，测量到太阳的度数之间的距离，然后再从上升点的度数出发，测量相同的距离。

They say if you have a night chart to calculate the Lot of Fortune, you actually want to reverse the calculation and you start with the degree of the Moon and then you measure the distance to the degree of the Sun and then you measure that same distance from the degree of the Ascendant.

但这两种计算方式都被用来指示命富点。

But both of these calculations are supposed to indicate the Lot of Fortune.

因此，当我刚开始研究命点，并认真思考和理解这个古代概念时，我产生了一个问题：你知道，虽然命点在很大程度上没有延续到二十世纪的现代占星术中，几乎被遗忘，直到1980年罗伯特·佐勒出版了基于对十三世纪占星家吉多·博纳蒂研究的《阿拉伯部分》一书后，才重新被关注。

So one of my questions then when I first started working on lots and really sat down to try to think about it and understand this ancient concept because, you know, one of the things that's funny is even though Lot's didn't survive into, like, the twentieth century, into modern astrology for the most part, had been largely forgotten about until, like, 1980 when Robert Zoller published his book on the Arabic parts that was largely based on his reading of the thirteenth century astrologer Guido Bonatti.

在此之前，命富点是唯一一个幸存下来的命点，二十世纪的现代占星师有时仍会将其纳入星盘，因为它是唯一被托勒密和威廉·利利提及过的命点。

So prior to that time, the Lot of Fortune was the only lot that kind of survived and was sometimes put into charts by modern astrologers in the twentieth century because that was the one lot that was mentioned by Ptolemy and by William Lilly.

所以，它是少数几个真正流传下来的命点之一，但没人真正知道为什么它的计算方式是这样的，以及它为何要发挥这样的作用。

So it was one of the few lots that actually survived, but nobody really knew why the calculation was what it was and why it was supposed to do what it was supposed to do.

二十世纪时，人们对它作用的了解少之又少，即便如此，那点了解本身也极其有限。

What little was even known about what it was supposed to do in the twentieth century, which was still even in and of itself very little.

但当我开始研究这个问题时，其中一个疑问是：你应当自问，为什么日盘和夜盘的这两种计算方式，都会指向同一个东西，或得出同一个点？

But So when I set out to work on this, one of the questions is And that you should ask yourself is like, why do both of these calculations, the day chart calculation and the night chart calculation, indicate the same thing or result in the same point?

尤其是我当时的疑问是：这两种方式之间有什么共同点？

And especially the question I had is what is the commonality between the two?

但这就是我所意识到的。

So but this is what I realized.

最终，我们已经知道，两者的差异与派别（sect）以及昼夜的区别有关，而这正是两者之间的变化所在。

Eventually, we already know that the difference has to do with sect and the difference between day and night, and that that's what changes between the two of them.

因此，无论是哪种方式，其共同点在于：你都是在计算指向在那个时段内处于黑暗状态的光体，即关于财富命点的情况。

So what you do and what the commonality is between both of them, you're counting to the luminary that's actually dark during that part of the day when it comes to Lot of Fortune.

所以，派别中的光明体是起始点。

So sect light is starting point.

暗体是终点。

Dark luminary is the ending point.

所以在这两种情况下，我们先从日盘计算开始。

So in both instance, let's start with the day chart calculation.

在日盘中，太阳是发光的天体，它散发光芒，照亮白天的外部世界。

In a day chart, the sun is the shining luminary that is like emanating light and is lighting up the outside in the day.

你就像那些宇宙射线，哦。

You like the rays, cosmic rays Oh

我的天啊。

my god.

看着还不错。

Looking Okay.

所以在日盘中，太阳是发光的天体，我们从这个发光的天体开始计算，这在希腊占星术中被称为本命光体。

So the sun is the one that's shining in a day chart, and we're starting the calculation from that shining luminary, is known as the sect light in Hellenistic astrology.

然后我们从这个点出发，远离它。

And then But we're going away from that.

我们正在测量从这个发光体——太阳——到月亮的距离。

We're measuring the distance from that shining luminary, the Sun, and we're going to the Moon.

在白天，月亮并不是主要的发光体。

And during the day, the Moon is not the primary luminary.

实际上，它是赫勒尼斯特占星术中与派别相反的发光体。

That's actually the luminary that's contrary to the sect in Hellenistic astrology.

因此，在计算幸运点时，我们某种程度上是从光明的概念转向了黑暗的概念。

So in some ways then, we're going from the concept of light to the concept of darkness when it comes to the calculation of the Lot of Fortune.

这一点在日间星盘的计算中尤为明显，因为仅仅默认地，当我们想到太阳时，自然就会联想到白天。

And that's really obvious in the day chart calculation because even just by default, if we think of the Sun, we think of the day automatically.

而当我们想到月亮时，就会联想到夜晚，想到月亮在夜间出现。

Whereas if we think of the Moon, we think of the night and we think about the Moon coming out at night, think.

对吧？

Right?

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

所以这是其中一部分。

So that's part of it.

但有趣的是，关于派别相同的规则在夜盘计算中也同样适用。

But then what's interesting is the same thing involving sect holds up for the night chart calculation.

所以如果我们转到夜盘，计算方式是从月亮开始，然后测量到太阳的距离。

So if we switch to the night chart, the calculation is to start from the moon and then count the distance to the Sun.

在夜晚，月亮实际上是发光的天体。

So at night, the Moon is actually the shining luminary.

因为在夜晚，太阳位于地平线以下，天空黑暗，月亮才是发出光线的天体。

So the Moon is the celestial body that's emitting light at night because the Sun is below the horizon and therefore it's dark out.

但月亮，尤其是在满月时，如果它在地平线以上，就会照亮周围，使我们能够看见东西。

But the Moon, especially on let's say like a full Moon, if the Moon is above the horizon is illuminating and is lighting up things and allowing you to see.

它是夜晚真正提供最多光线的原理或天体。

It's the principle or the celestial body that's actually providing the most light at night.

但在幸运点的计算中，你以月亮作为发光体，然后计算它到太阳的距离。

But in the Lot of Fortune calculation, you're starting with the moon as the luminary, the provider of light, and you're counting the distance to the sun.

但在夜晚，太阳是黑暗的。

But at night, the sun is dark.

太阳位于地平线以下。

The sun is underneath the horizon.

它不提供光，可以说被遮蔽或处于黑暗之中。

It's not providing light and it's sort of like eclipsed or in darkened, you might say.

所以我意识到，这两种计算的共同点在于：你从代表当天时段光明的天体开始，然后转向代表当天时段黑暗的天体。

So what what I realized that that meant actually is that the commonality in both calculations is you're starting from the luminary that's representing light at that part of the day, and then you're going to the luminary that's representing darkness at that part of the day.

这意味着，幸运点的基本原理是从光明走向黑暗的概念。

So that means that the underlying principle of the Lot of Fortune is the concept of going from light to dark.

从光明走向黑暗。

So going from light to darkness.

我最终意识到，这意味着希腊时期的占星家和这一技法的发明者认为，光明与灵魂和理智相关，而黑暗则与身体和物质化身相关。

And what I eventually realized that this meant was that the the Hellenistic astrologers and the inventor of the technique had a concept that light was associated with the soul and the intellect and darkness was associated with the body and physical incarnation.

这在一定程度上源于许多古代哲学、灵性和宗教理论，认为灵魂是一种发光的存在，在出生时穿过行星天球，从每个行星那里汲取特质，但最终坠入与黑暗相关的物质世界。

And that partially had to do with a lot of ancient philosophical and spiritual and religious theories about the soul being this luminous thing that sort of descends through the planetary spheres at birth and picks up qualities from each of the planets, but then eventually goes down into the material world which is associated with darkness.

因此，黑暗与物质相关，而灵魂与精神则与光明相关。

So darkness is associated with matter and the soul and the spirit is associated with light.

但对于幸运点，他们特别将其与黑暗的概念联系起来，因此也与物质和肉体化身相关。

But for the Lot of Fortune, they were specifically associating it with the concept of darkness and therefore with matter in physical incarnation.

是的。

Yeah.

这个解释太棒了。

That was a great explanation.

好的。

Okay.

这样理解清楚吗？

Does that make sense?

有什么地方让你觉得不明白吗？

Anything about that that doesn't make sense?

没有。

No.

这对我来说完全说得通。

That made perfect sense to me.

太棒了。

That was great.

好的。

Okay.

不错。

Cool.

所以更快速地梳理一下，同样的原则也适用于灵之点，但正好相反。

So to run through it more quickly, the same principle also applies to the Lot of Spirit, but it's the reverse.

让我共享一下屏幕。

So let me share my screen.

根据文献，白天星盘中灵之点的计算方法是从月亮开始，然后测量到太阳的距离。

So the calculation for the Lot of Spirit according to the texts is in a day chart, you start from the moon, and then you measure the distance to the sun.

几乎所有的文献都指出，这就是计算灵之点的方法。

So pretty much all the texts say that's how you calculate spirit.

但在夜间，你应该从太阳开始，测量到月亮的距离。

But then by night, you're supposed to start with the sun and measure the distance to the moon.

那么问题就来了，它们之间的共同点是什么？

So then the question becomes, like, what is the commonality between them?

这基本上是幸运点的反向，因为在这种情况下，你是从在当天那个时段被遮蔽或不发光的天体开始计算的。

And it's basically the reverse of the Lot of Fortune because in this instance, you're starting from the luminary that is eclipsed or is not providing light during that part of the day.

例如，在日间图中，月亮不是主要的天体，而在夜间图中，太阳也不是提供光亮的主要天体，因为太阳基本上在地平线以下‘休息’。

So for example, the Moon in a day chart is not the main luminary and the Sun in a night chart is not the main luminary that's providing light because the Sun is sleeping basically below the horizon.

所以在两种情况下，你都是从暗淡或被遮蔽的天体，向发光并提供光亮的天体进行计算。

So in both instances, you're counting from the luminary that's dark or eclipsed to the luminary that's shining and providing light.

例如，在日间图的计算中，你从月亮到太阳，而太阳在白天是发光的天体。

So for example, with the day chart calculation, you go from the moon to the sun, and the sun is the shining luminary during that part of the day.

这模仿了一种从黑暗走向光明的原则。

So it's it's mimicking a principle of going from darkness to light.

同样地，在夜间图的计算中，你从正在‘休息’的太阳出发，前往月亮，月亮是该时段的本位光体，提供着光亮。

And similarly, in the night chart calculation, you're going from the sun, which is sleeping, to the moon, which is the sect light, which is providing light during that part of the day.

因此，这建立了一个原则：无论是白天还是夜晚的灵点计算，其共同点都是从黑暗走向光明。

So this sets up a principle where the Lot of Spirit calculation, the commonality between them that's true in both the day and night calculation is that you're going from light or you're going from sorry, the concept of darkness to the concept of light.

这是一种从黑暗走向光明的过程。

So it's something that's moving from darkness to light.

所以，黑暗与光明，这就是精神。

So dark light, and that is spirit.

这正是与精神相关联的概念。

That is the concept that it's associating with spirit.

因此，在这两种命点的所有情况下，主导原则都是你所指向的、位于右侧的那个。

So in all instances of both of these lots, the dominant principle is the one that you're counting to that's on the right.

在这个例子中，对于灵点而言，主导原则是你指向的教派之光，换句话说，就是提供光明的星体。

So in this instance, for the Lot of Spirit, the dominant principle is that you're counting to the sect light or in other words, the luminary that's providing light.

因此，灵点的底层原则是光明的概念，而福点的底层原则则是黑暗。

And therefore, the underlying principle for the Lot of Spirit is the concept of light and the underlying principle for the concept of fortune is darkness.

进一步说，黑暗与物质、身体和肉体存在相关联，而精神则与灵魂、心灵和智慧相关联。

And by extension, darkness is associated with matter, the body, and physical incarnation, and spirit is associated with the soul, the mind, and intellect.

是的

Yeah.

这让我想到，当我们年轻的时候，并不具备那些推理能力。

It's making me think a lot about how when we're younger, we don't have those, like, reasoning faculties.

我们随着成长获得智慧。

We gain intelligence.

随着年龄增长，我们也会获得自主性。

We gain agency the older that we grow as well.

因此，在人生的这一旅程中，我们几乎越来越接近精神，接近那日益增强光明的光体。

So, like, through that journey of life, we almost move closer towards spirit and the luminary that's growing and increasing in light.

这说得通吗？

Does that make sense?

当然。

Sure.

对。

Yeah.

这非常重要，因为以前从来没有人指出过这一点。

So this is really important because nobody had ever pointed this out before.

在古代文献中甚至也不太明确。

It's not even really clear in the ancient texts.

我之所以发现这一点，是因为我意识到我们需要从几何的角度来看这些计算，就像我之前展示的那样。

And it was something I only figured out because I realized we needed to look at the calculations from a geometrical perspective like I showed earlier.

一旦有了这种突破，我就开始这样写出来，你就能大致看出每种情况下计算中的主导原则。

Once that sort of breakthrough had been made I then started writing them out like this, you could kind of then see what the dominant principle was in the calculation in each case.

因此，我在2007年做出了这一发现，它为我们深入理解命运和精神宫提供了切入点，同时也能帮助解开其他在不同时期引入的宫位的计算方法。

So that was a discovery I made in 2007 that then provides our access point for understanding the lots especially fortune and spirit at a deeper level, but then also can help unlock even the calculation of other lots that were introduced at different points as well.

是的。

Yeah.

因为所有的赫尔墨斯宫位都会在计算中用到命运或精神。

Because all of the Hermetic lots are gonna use either fortune or spirit in their calculation.

因此，从黑暗到光明或从光明到黑暗的这种基本转变，无论我们是在研究爱欲宫还是必然宫等等，都将至关重要。

So that kind of basis of moving from darkness to lightness or lightness to darkness is going to be key and central even when we're looking at the Lot of Eros or the Lot of Necessity and so on and so forth.

是的。

Yeah.

我们为什么不在这里提一下赫尔墨斯命点的计算方法以及它们分别是什么？

Why don't we mention that here, just the calculations for the Hermetic Lots and what those are?

在后来的传统中，这些命点大概在三世纪左右才出现，直到四世纪保罗·亚历山大里亚的著作中才完整呈现。

So later in the tradition, probably sometime around the third century, they don't show up in their fullest form until the fourth century in the work of Paulus Alexandrinus.

这组共有七个命点，每一个都与七颗传统行星（包括日月）相关联。

There is this set of seven lots and each of them is associated with one of the seven traditional planets including the luminaries.

因此，这些被称为七赫尔墨斯命点，因为它们起源于一部归于赫尔墨斯·特里斯墨吉斯忒斯的文本，该文本很可能写于三世纪左右，因为瓦伦斯和其他二世纪的占星家似乎并不知晓这一完整的命点体系，而到了四世纪的保罗则已经引用了更早的文本。

So these have become known as the seven hermetic lots because they originated in a text that was attributed to Hermes Trismegistus that was probably composed somewhere around the third century because Valens and the other second century astrologers don't seem to be aware of this full set of lots, whereas Paulus by the fourth century is already drawing on an earlier text.

因此，我们推断，由于保罗生活在四世纪，这部文本必定写于三世纪左右。

So we think then because Paulus lived in the fourth century that this text must have been written in like the third or so.

对。

Yeah.

以下是七个赫尔墨斯命点。

So here's the seven Hermetic lots.

它们分别是幸运宫位，与月亮相关；精神宫位，与太阳相关；爱欲宫位，与金星相关；胜利宫位，与木星相关；必然宫位，与水星相关；勇气宫位，与火星相关；以及报应宫位，与土星相关。

They are the Lot of Fortune which is associated with the Moon, the Lot of Spirit, which is associated with the Sun, the Lot of Eros, which is associated with Venus, the Lot of Victory, which is associated with Jupiter, the Lot of Necessity, which is associated with Mercury, the Lot of Courage which is associated with Mars, and the Lot of Nemesis which is associated with Saturn.

这些就是七个赫尔墨斯宫位。

So these are the seven Hermetic lots.

它们的计算方式与我们熟悉的原始方法有所不同，因为我们在这里看到的幸运宫位和精神宫位，是标准的计算方式：要么从月亮到太阳的距离，要么从太阳到月亮的距离，然后将相同的距离从上升点出发，就能得到宫位。

They have interesting calculations that are now different than the original ones that we're familiar with because we see Fortune and Spirit here and these are the normal standard calculations from them where you either measure the distance from the Moon to the Sun or from the Sun to the Moon and then the same distance from the Ascendant brings you to the Lot.

但其他行星的赫尔墨斯宫位计算，则是以某个宫位为起点或终点，通常从幸运宫位或精神宫位开始。

But the Hermetic Lot calculations for the other planets start with or end with actually a Lot and start with either Lot of Spirit or the Lot of Fortune.

例如，在日间图中，计算爱欲宫位时，你需要测量精神宫位的度数到金星的度数之间的距离，然后从上升点出发，加上相同的距离。

So the Lot of Eros, for example, in a day chart, you're supposed to measure the distance from the Lot of Spirit, the degree of Spirit to the degree of Venus, and then the same distance from the Ascendant.

而在夜间图中，则应从金星开始，测量到精神宫位的距离，再从上升点出发，加上相同的距离。

Or in a night chart, you're supposed to start with Venus and then measure the distance to the Lot of Spirit and then measure the same distance from the Ascendant.

这引入了一种新的方式：虽然大多数宫位是从一个行星到另一个行星，再从上升点复制相同距离来计算，但也存在其他计算方式，有时是从宫位到行星、或行星到宫位，或其他类似的方法。

So this starts introducing that while most lots are measured from planet a from one planet to another and then the same from the Ascendant, there's other ways of calculating lots where they can sometimes be measured from a lot to a planet or a planet to a lot or other things like that.

是的，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

本质上，命点就是测量星盘中一个点到另一个点的距离，然后从上升点再量出相同的距离。

Fundamentally a lot can be just measuring from one point in a chart to another point in the chart and then measuring the same distance from the Ascendant.

因此，在这种情况下，我们把命点纳入了计算之中。

So in this instance, we're incorporating lots into the calculation.

在其他情况下，有时他们会计算从一个行星到星盘中某个宫位的距离。

In other instances, sometimes they calculate the distance from one planet to a house in the chart.

比如，死亡命点与第八宫相关，你需要从另一个点测量到第八宫的距离。

Like the Lot of Death, for example, is associated with the eighth house and you're supposed to measure the distance to the eighth house from another point.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，命点的计算方式有多种，你会看到很多不同的变化。

So there's different ways you can do lot calculations and you'll see a lot of variations.

尽管基本原理只是从A点到B点计数，然后再从上升点开始计数？

Although the fundamental principle is just counting from point A to point B and then from the Ascendant?

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

好的。

Okay.

所以赫尔墨斯命点是你特别专精的那些，对吧？

So the Hermetic Lots are ones that you've specialized in especially, right?

是的。

Yeah.

我在客户实践中花了很多时间研究它们，还做过一次讲座和一本指南书，并且与占星师克洛伊·玛格丽塔合作做过一次关于厄洛斯命点的联合讲座。

I've spent a lot of time with them in client practice, and I did a lecture and a guidebook, and I did a collaborative lecture with the astrologer Chloe Margarita and Lot of Eros.

我认为它们对一个人的生活和境遇有非常多可说的内容。

And I think that they just have a lot to say about a person's life and their circumstances.

就像我之前说的，它们提供了一种不同的视角来看待星盘，如果你不考虑它们，就根本得不到这种视角。

And like I was saying before, they offer a different lens on the chart that you just don't get if you're not taking them to consideration.

因此，当我们想更具体地探讨生活中的不同领域和话题时，它们可以非常有启发性，因为有时候，你知道，太阳可以代表很多不同的含义，而精神命点则对太阳的含义做了更精炼的表达。

And so they can be really illuminating for a lot of different areas and topics of life when we wanna get more specific because sometimes, you know, the sun can mean so many different things, and then a lot of spirit is a little bit more of a condensed meaning of the sun.

所以，这几乎是一种更精确地把握某些特定主题的方式，这非常有帮助。

And so it's almost like a way to get a bit more specific about certain topics, which can be really helpful.

不错。

Nice.

好的。

Okay.

而且确实如此。

And yeah.

我也做了很多关于命点的研究。

And I have done a lot with the lots.

我或赫尔墨斯命点。

I or the hermetic lots.

我曾在2009年写过一篇论文，标题大概是《七赫尔墨斯命点的理论基础》，那是为海伦娜占星学的路易丝·里贝罗主编的《传统期刊》所撰写的，这份期刊曾连续多年出版。

I wrote a paper titled, I think, the theoretical rationale underlying the seven Hermetic Lots back in 2009 for a paper for a journal that Hellenistic Astrology Louise Ribeiro were doing called The Tradition Journal for several years.

但你可以通过谷歌搜索找到那篇论文。

But you can Google it to find that paper.

我还发展了一种技术，利用保罗斯和赫尔墨斯文本中的命点计算方法，大量使用了箭头符号。

And I also developed a technique where I've I've used a lot of arrows using this calculation from Paulus and from the Hermetic text a lot.

2005年11月，当我刚开始学习星座释放法时，我们正在前景项目进行研究会，以推敲这一技术。当时我们使用的是灵与 fortune（命运点），这正是瓦伦斯教授的方法，并将其应用于实例星盘。

And in 2005, in November 2005, when I was first learning zodiacal releasing and that we were doing study sessions at Project Hindsight to work out the technique after one study session where we were using spirit and fortune, which is how Valens teaches it, and we're applying it to example charts.

在2005年11月的一次研究会后，我回到房间，尝试探索是否可以使用箭矢点进行释放，以研究一个人的爱情生活和人际关系。

I went back to my room at one point after one study session in November 2005 and tried to see if you could do releasing from the Lot of Arrows to study a person's love life and relationships.

我实际上非常惊讶地发现，这种方法确实可行，而且通过使用爱神点，并将其融入瓦伦斯提出的这种奇特的定时技术中，它在预测个人爱情生活的时间节点上表现得非常出色。

And I was actually really surprised to find out that you could, and then it worked actually very well for timing things in a person's love life by using the Lot of Eros and applying it within the context of this sort of exotic timing technique that comes from various valence.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一项开创性的工作，也促使我进一步思考，是否能从其他命点出发做类似的分析。

It was revolutionary work and it kind of pushed me as well in my studies to see if we could do that from other lots.

我在使用必然性点进行释放方面取得了很大成功，用以探讨与必然性相关的事物及其各种表现。

And I've had a lot of success with releasing from the Lot of Necessity to see things related to necessity and different things that are related to that.

因此，关于命点还有大量工作有待开展，但这是一个令人兴奋的领域，值得专门投入研究，因为用它们能做的实在太多，当你真正深入使用它们时，能从星盘中挖掘出海量的信息。

So can there's a lot more work to be done with the lots, but it's an exciting field to be kinda specializing in and really getting into because there's just so much you can do with them and so much you can glean from a chart when you're, yeah, working with them.

当然。

For sure.

这就引出了一个问题，你可以通过许多网站获取赫尔墨斯命点，或者至少这三个命点的计算结果。

And that brings up that you can get the hermetic lots or for sure the three lots calculated at a lot of websites.

到目前为止，我鼓励了很多网站整合这些计算功能，我知道在 astro.com 上可以得到这些计算结果。

At this point, I had encouraged a lot of different websites to integrate those, and I know you can get them calculated on astro.com.

还有来自 AstroSeek 的彼得也提供了一个计算器。

There's also Peter from AstroSeek has a calculator.

我的意思是，我应该先说，你可以使用计算器，但请不要跳过先用肉眼观察、在星盘上进行几何计算这一步，这样你才能理解它们是如何运作的，以及计算它们有多么简单。

I mean, because I mean, I guess I should say, first, you can use calculators, but please don't bypass the just eyeballing it, doing the geometrical calculation on your chart first so you understand how they work and how simple it is to calculate them.

但一旦你理解了这一点，就可以使用一些计算器，而且有很多免费的可用。

But once you do understand that, there are calculators and free ones that you can use.

尤其是 AstroSeek（astroseek.com）上有一些非常棒的资源，AstroSeek 的创建者彼得设置了一个页面，能非常简便地使用我们从保卢斯那里采纳的计算方法，计算出幸运点、灵点和爱神点。

There's some really great resources especially on AstroSeek, astroseek.com, where Peter, the creator of AstroSeek, he has one page set up where it will calculate very easily the Lot of Fortune, Spirit, and Eros using the calculations that we we use and prefer from Paulus in a pretty straightforward way.

所以这相当酷。

So it's pretty it's pretty cool.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，如果你启用了传统计算器，他那里还有一个选项可以只显示七个赫尔墨斯命点。

I think he also has an option in the traditional calculator if you have that switched on to just display the seven hermetic lots.

所以，当你输入出生时间时，使用传统计算器实际上可以获取全部七个命点。

So you can actually get all seven if you're using the traditional calculator when you input your birth time.

不错。

Nice.

好的。

Okay.

太棒了。

Awesome.

很好。

Good.

这真的很酷。

That's really cool.

有一件事我需要快速提一下，但我不想多谈，那就是Eros的计算有两种不同的方法。

There there is one thing to mention really quickly, but I don't wanna dwell on it where there's variant there's two different calculations for Eros necessity.

瓦伦斯早期的计算方法和多罗西乌斯的方法中，对于厄洛斯，是从灵性到命运的距离，或者实际上是反过来的，相信吧。

Valens has earlier calculations and Dorotheus where for Eros, you measure the distance from spirit to fortune or actually it's the reverse, believe.

厄洛斯是从命运到灵性，而必然性之位则是从灵性到命运，同样都是从上升点开始计算。

It's from fortune to spirit for Eros and then the same from the Ascendant or for the Lot of Necessity, it's from spirit to fortune and then the same from the Ascendant.

这似乎是早期计算厄洛斯和必然性的方法，完全不涉及金星或水星，而是从两个基本的星位——灵性和命运——进一步推导出来的。

And that seems to have been the earlier approach to calculating Eros and necessity where it didn't involve Venus or Mercury at all, but instead it was something that was being extrapolated even further from the two fundamental lots, which are spirit and fortune.

这种方法有其自身的有趣理据和用途等等。

And that has its own interesting rationale and usage and everything else.

不过对于厄洛斯，我更喜欢并倾向于保卢斯的计算方法，因为它直接将金星整合进了计算，同时也结合了灵性之位。

For Eros though, I've really liked and have preferred the calculation from Paulus because it actually integrates the planet Venus directly into the calculation as well as the the Lot of Spirit as well.

是的。

Yeah.

我也更喜欢保卢斯的计算方法，我认为用上所有行星的理据很巧妙。

I also prefer the Paulus calculations, and I think it's a nice rationale of using all of the planets.

每个行星都有自己的星位。

Like, each of these seven planets has their own lot.

因此，当我们使用这些计算方法，而不是使用Aerosene必要性的平衡计算时，我们之前讨论的这种区分就变得非常清晰了。

So that specification that we were talking about before becomes really clear when you're using those calculations rather than, you know, using the balance calculations for Aerosene necessity.

但如果你不知道这些有不同的公式，可能会感到困惑。

But it can get confusing if you don't know that there's different formulas for those.

对。

Right.

当然。

For sure.

而且有一点是，至少在波利斯传统中，命运之lot和勇气之lot通常被视为比较负面的星点，代表具有挑战性的事物，必要性也是如此，因为它们与命运相关联。

And one thing is that generally speaking, in Polis at least, the Lot of nemesis and courage are treated as pretty negative lots or indicating challenging things, and necessity is as well because they're associating them with fortune.

而爱神和胜利则与积极的事物相关联，因为它们与吉星以及精神之lot相联系；而勇气和命运则与凶星相关联。

Whereas eros and victory are associated with pretty positive things because they associate with the benefics and with the Lot of Spirit, whereas courage and nemesis are associated with malefics.

是的。

Yeah.

我一直觉得这非常有趣，它突显了人生中那些更具挑战性的经历，通常并非源于个人的决定，而更像是命运与境遇的产物，尤其是在这些计算中使用了命运之lot。

I've always thought that was really fascinating just to highlight how the more challenging things that can happen to someone in their life are usually not a product of their own decisions, but are just like a kind of a product of fate and circumstance with using fortune in those calculations.

你会看到对必然、勇气和厄运的定义，它们听起来像是死亡、毁灭、受限的境遇，非常艰难。

And you see the definitions of necessity and courage and nemesis, and it's like death and destruction and constraining circumstances and things that sound really difficult.

然后你再看爱欲和胜利，它们关联的是友谊、情感、欲望和愉悦。

And then you go to, you know, eros and victory, and it's like associations and friendships and desires and pleasures.

它们带有更积极的色彩，而这些正是我们通常更能掌控的事情。

And it has a much more benefic tone to it, and those are the things that we tend to have a bit more agency over to.

所以这种潜在的逻辑也值得深入探究。

So that kind of underlying rationale is really interesting to dig into as well.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

For sure.

所以我认为，根据格林鲍姆翻译的保卢斯·亚历山大里亚斯的说法，爱欲宫代表的是出于选择的欲望和渴求，并主导友谊与恩惠。

So I think Paulus Paulus Alexandrinus from Greenbaum's translation, he says that the Lot of Eros signifies appetites and desires occurring by choice, and it becomes responsible for friendship and favor.

而雷托里乌斯则说，金星宫或爱欲宫，因为‘爱欲’在希腊语中意为爱，象征着欲望、情欲和爱恋，也预示着满足。

And then Rhetorius says, The Lot of Venus or the Lot of Love signifies because eros means love in Greek, signifies the desires and lusts and loves made in the same sense and it is indicative of gratification.

是的

Yeah.

没错

Exactly.

所以，满足感这个概念，对吧，它是一种能让你内心充实的东西。

So the the concept of gratification, right, it's something that fills you up.

它能让你在一天结束时感到愉悦，而当你读到关于命运报应的内容时，通常那些并不会让你感到开心，比如流放、驱逐以及与这些主题相关的事物。

It's something that makes you feel good at the end of the day, whereas you read the nemesis stuff, and it's usually not the things that make you feel good, like exile and banishment and things related to those topics.

对。

Right.

是的

Yeah.

那种被流放和驱逐的普遍感受，可不是我最喜欢的体验。

That is not one of my favorite feelings, that common common feeling of exile and banishment.

是的

Yeah.

你经常被流放或驱逐吗？还是这在你生活中是一个反复出现的主题？

Are you getting exiled and banished frequently or is this a recurring theme in your life?

到目前为止还没有。

Not so far.

我的意思是，我们得等到这期节目播出后才能知道。

I mean, we'll have to see after this episode comes out.

好吧。

All right.

我觉得这很好。

So I think that's good.

既然我们已经讨论了所有的计算、概念和哲学内容，也许现在是时候进入一些实践了。

This this might be time to Now that we've gone all the calculation and conceptual and philosophical stuff, maybe it's time to get into some practice.

是的。

Yeah.

听起来很棒。

That sounds great.