荣曜的起源：一项新发现

不会在后续的占星传统中拥有任何长久的重要意义，但实际人们对这块浮雕的解读完全不是这样。

No particular persistent significance in the rest of the tradition, whereas that's not how it's actually treated.

比如说，宫位体系就认为行星会变得更……这么说吧，更具吉兆。

The domicile scheme, for example, is treated as the planets are more, let's say, auspicious.

简单来说，当行星处于其守护宫位时，所处的位置就是更吉利的。

At the very simplest, are more auspiciously placed when the planets are in their domiciles.

与之类似，在占星传统中，当行星处于耀升位置时，也被认为会带来更强的吉兆。

And similarly, planets, when they're in their exaltations, were also said to be more auspicious in the astrological tradition.

那么这里就引出了一个深层的问题：为什么会这样？为什么行星在这些星座里会拥有更强的力量？

So there is then an underlying question of why is that or why should the planets do better in those signs.

反过来说，这个概念不仅包含擢升星座，还存在与行星擢升星座相对的位置，那被称作该行星的落陷或失势位置——在这个位置上行星无法发挥良好的作用，或是被认为处于不吉利的排布中。

Or conversely, this concept is not just the signs of exaltation, but also the signs opposite to a planet's exaltation is said to be the place of its fall or depression where it's not said to do well or is said to be inauspiciously placed.

我觉得这算是一个我们也该提一下的相关推论概念，目前讲到这里应该差不多了。

So that's a sort of corollary concept, I guess, we should mention as well, but that's probably good.

好的。

Alright.

那么我觉得，我们接下来可以进入文本本身的讲解了。

So that brings us, I believe, to the text itself.

我觉得我们可以梳理一遍——我写了一份这个文本的概要，我们可以顺着这份概要从头到尾讲清楚背后的逻辑，把内容梳理明白。

I think we should go through I've written kind of like a summary of the text, maybe we can go through and just walk through that summary as it explains and sort of try to summarize it as it explains the rationale from start to finish.

你觉得这么安排可行吗？

Do you think that makes sense?

好的。

Yeah.

我觉得我们首先得说明，这一章其实分成了三个部分。

I think we should start by saying that the chapter is really divided into three parts.

好的。

Okay.

第一部分里，他先回顾了一些之前提到过的原理，还解释了他为什么要开始把特定的行星和星座对应起来讲解。

So the first part is where he reminds us of some of the principles he's been talking about and is laying out why he will start identifying certain planets and signs together.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

这一点很重要，因为这发生在《 domicile 》章节之后，阿布·马沙尔在该章节中已经大量引用了赫尔墨斯的文本。

And that's important to mention that because this also comes after, for example, the domiciles chapter where Abu Ma'shar has already drawn extensively on the Hermes text.

我想顺便提一下，虽然我们现在聚焦于‘擢升’，但有一个容易被忽视的重要观点，关于 domicile 体系的起源，阿布·马沙尔也从赫尔墨斯文本中传达了这一点：他说在‘世界命盘’中，太阳正好位于狮子座15度，因为那是夏季最炎热、光线最强的正中间。

And I did want to say one thing about that because even though we're focused on the exaltations here, there was also one major point that's easy to overlook, but I think it's a very important and very crucial point about the origins of the domicile scheme as well that Abu Ma'shar relays from the Hermes text, is that he says in the Thema Mundi, the Sun was at exactly 15 degrees of Leo because that is right in the middle of the summer when the hotness and the light is at its strongest.

在季节的固定星座正中央。

In the middle of the fixed sign of the season.

没错。

Right.

所以它不仅位于固定星座的正中央，更是季节的正中间。

So it's right in the middle of the fixed sign, but also it's not just the middle of the fixed sign, it's in the middle of the season.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这对我来说非常重要，因为它引出了一个长期存在的问题：回归黄道与恒星黄道之间的区别，以及当时赋予各行星不同黄道星座的理论依据是什么。

So this is really important to me because it brings up a long standing issue about the tropical versus the sidereal zodiac and what the rationale was, what the conceptual rationale was for the assigning of each of the planets to the different signs of the zodiac.

这一章的设定方式，正是将太阳置于狮子座15度作为整个体系的起点，这成为此后所有行星与黄道星座分配的焦点、基础和核心。

And the way that it sets this up in that chapter is it makes that the starting point of the entire scheme, that putting the Sun at 15 degrees of Leo becomes really the focal point and the foundation or the basis of all of the rest of the assignments of the planets, the signs of the zodiac from that point forward.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以这基本上回答了这样一个问题：如果你要从零开始构建西方占星术，这将是你的起点——前提是在北半球，夏季的中点正是太阳位于狮子座15度的时候，也就是夏季的正中间。

So it basically answers the question of if you wanted to build Western astrology from scratch, this would be your starting point to the premise that in the Northern Hemisphere, the middle of the summer occurs when the Sun is at 15 degrees of Leo right in the middle of the summer.

因此，这个黄道星座就应该被分配给太阳，因为太阳是我们太阳系中光和热的来源。

And that sign of the zodiac then should be the sign assigned to the Sun because the Sun is the source of light and heat in our solar system.

所以这在某种程度上成为了整个体系的概念基础。

So that sort of becomes the conceptual basis for everything.

所以当我们继续往下看时，这一章分为三个部分。

So as we go through, the chapter has three parts.

第一部分是他提醒我们这一点，并引入了一些他将要使用的其他原则。

And the first part is where he reminds us of this and introduced a couple more things about, you know, some of the principles he's going to use.

在第二部分，他运用这些原则来解释为什么擢升位是这样的。

In the second part, he uses them to explain why the signs of exaltation are as they are.

在第三部分，他解释了：现在，为什么这些度数位于这些位置。

And then in the third part, he explains, Now here's why the degrees are where they are.

所以这是一种非常有条理的解释方式。

So it's a very orderly way of explaining this.

对。

Right.

为了总结刚才那一点，我强调过，正因为宫位体系明确基于回归制的原理，而擢升体系在某种程度上也基于我们即将引入的论点，同样也是建立在回归制的基础上。

And just to wrap up that last thing, I was emphasizing that just because it means that the domicile scheme was explicitly predicated on a tropical rationale and the exaltation scheme to some extent also based on the argument that we're about to introduce is also based on a tropical rationale.

这一点对于当前关于西方占星术最初是回归制还是恒星制的持续争论至关重要。

So that's really crucial in terms of current ongoing debates about whether Western astrology was originally tropical or sidereal.

如果这些论点源自最初的思维方式，那么西方占星术从一开始就始终基于回归制，这顺便说明，那些至今仍持续攻击占星师、声称他们的黄道带偏离了一个完整星座的怀疑论观点完全站不住脚——因为西方占星术的基础自公元一世纪以来本质上就是回归制。

If these rationales come from the original line of thinking, then it was always originally predicated on a tropical rationale, which incidentally makes later even skeptical arguments that the astrologers are wrong because their zodiac is off by an entire sign and all of that that are still persistent attacks on astrologers today completely pointless because it means the foundations of Western astrology were always tropical essentially from the first century forward.

你觉得从这个赫尔墨斯文本中得出的这个观点很重要吗？

Does that make sense to you as an important point that's coming out of this Hermes text?

是的。

Yeah.

因为整个体系都基于白昼增长或缩短的理念，将白昼长度与季节联系在一起。

Because the whole thing is based on the idea of increasing daylight or decreasing daylight, and so it's tying the length of day and seasons together.

因此，你只能通过假设一个回归黄道来维持这种说法。

And so the only way you can keep that going is if you assume a tropical zodiac.

对。

Right.

所以，正如你所说，开头的三分之一部分更像是在建立一种哲学基础，这在我看来几乎是整个讨论的哲学前提，这也是让我感兴趣的地方之一。

So it starts off at the beginning, like you were saying, the first third with kind of a philosophical It tries to set what to me comes off as almost like a philosophical basis first for the entire discussion, and that was one of the things that interested me.

因为让我感兴趣的部分原因是，这让我想起了罗伯特·施密特一直推测、一直期望能找到的观点：即这个体系的创立者必定先有了某种哲学构想，然后才由此发展出技术方法。

Because part of the reason it interested me because it brought to mind something that Robert Schmidt always speculated that he always wanted to find and he always expected to be there, which was the idea that whoever came up with this system must have had some sort of philosophical conceptualization that came first, and then they developed the techniques out of that.

我不知道他是否真的能证明这一点，但这个文本比我看过的任何其他文献都更接近这一点，因为其他希腊化时期占星家留存下来的后期文献大多只是技术性的，通常基本缺乏哲学背景。

Don't know, I don't feel like he was ever able to demonstrate that, but this text comes closest to that than anything I've seen because most of the other later surviving texts from the other Hellenistic astrologers are just technical and often largely devoid of philosophical context for the most part.

你介意我们读一下你翻译的这一章开头的几句话吗？

Would you mind if we read from your translation that first little section or first few sentences of the chapter?

好的。

Sure.

好的。

Okay.

我可以把内容共享到屏幕上吗？

Can I share it on the screen?

当然可以。

Sure.

好的。

Okay.

这是一个初步的翻译。

So this is a preliminary translation.

还没有完全完成。

It's not finished quite yet.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

我还会做一些调整。

I'll still do some tinkering.

好的。

Okay.

所以这一章的标题是关于行星尊贵位置的原因，依据的是赫尔墨斯陈述中的相应内容。

So the title of the chapter is on the reason for the planet's exaltations according to what fits with the statement of Hermes.

因此，这是阿布·马沙尔在为我们总结或转述这些已失传的赫尔墨斯文本中对尊贵位置的解释。

So this is Abu Ma'shar kind of summarizing or relaying to us the explanation for the exaltations from this lost Hermetic texts.

他说：你是想自己读，还是想让我读？

He says Or do you want to read it or do you want me to read it?

哦，你来读吧。

Oh, go ahead.

我们从关于增与减的概念开始，之后再将其与光和白昼联系起来。

We start at the beginning with ideas about increase and decrease, and we will later on relate that to light and daylight.

所以他一开始就说：对于有开端的事物，在其开端之初，它们处于一种进展和增长的状态。

So he starts out by saying, For things which have an inception, at the beginning of their inception, they are in a state of advancement and increase.

而在它们的中期，它们最为强大和健壮。

And at their middle, they are stronger and the most robust they can be.

到了末期，它们则衰退并变得虚弱。

And at their end, they are retreating and weak.

所以他谈论的是事物的自然过程：发展、达到顶峰，然后随时间减弱。

So he's talking about the natural process of things and how things develop, culminate, and then weaken over time.

这是一个非常普遍的观点。

So it's a very general point.

我的意思是，这虽然是一个普遍的观点，但有趣的是，它源自一种哲学性的陈述：任何有开端的事物，都会经历成长阶段，中期达到最鼎盛，最终走向衰败。

I mean, it's a it's a general point, but it's just interesting that it's it's proceeding from like a philosophical statement of like anything that has a beginning, it's gonna have a state of growth and then being at its most robust in the middle and then eventually a state of decay.

这为之后所有内容提供了背景。

And it contextualizes everything that comes afterwards from this point.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，他直接谈到了植物和动物，但接着又说，行星在星座的起始阶段也在前进和增强。

And so directly he talks about plants and animals, but then he says that planets are advancing and increasing at the beginning of the signs.

在中间，它们最强大；在星座的末端，它们则退缩且虚弱。

In the middle, they're the strongest, and at the end of the signs, they are retreating and weak.

他还说，当它们从光线中出现时，也是如此。

And he also says this is true about when they do things like come out of the rays.

当它们独立可见时，开始变得强大，随着离太阳越来越远，它们变得更加强大。

They start to become strong when they're visible on their own, then they become much strong as they're farther away from the Sun.

当它们进一步远离，并接近其首个留点（逆行点）时，能量逐渐减弱。

And as they get even more distanced and get close to their first station where they're retrograde, the energy kind of peters out.

所以他说，这是一项普遍原则，我们在自然界和占星术中都能看到。

So he's saying it's a general principle which we see both in nature and already in astrology.

对。

Right.

因此，这极大地强调了‘增长’这一核心概念，反复突出提升、崛起、处于上升阶段的事物，而非相反的状态。

So it's really emphasizing and then it goes on to emphasize just this notion especially of increase as being the primary principle that it's focusing on over and over again with the exaltation and the notion of something being on the rise or being emerging and being on the sort of increasing side of things instead of the opposite.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

还有我们之前讨论过的一点：一旦你抵达顶峰，接下来就只能走下坡路了。

And something that we were discussing is that once you've reached the peak, there's nowhere to go but downwards.

所以从某种层面来说，擢升（exaltation）其实仍处在上升阶段，因为它还处于力量不断增强的过程中，还没到开始衰退的时候。

So in a way, exaltation exaltation is still in a sense, still a little on the upswing because it's the process of becoming greater rather than just about to decline.

对。

Yeah.

而且我觉得这一点非常重要。

And I think that's really important.

这正是我们前几天讨论的核心问题之一：我们以往对擢升（exaltation）的范式可能有误，一直想当然地认为擢升就代表已经抵达某件事的绝对顶峰，但实际上，它在一定程度上更偏向于朝着顶点攀升、逐步抵达高点的过程，而非已经处于自身力量的巅峰——后者反而更符合星座庙位（domicile）的概念，就像夏至时的太阳，正处在自身力量的最高点。

That was one of the main things we were talking about the other day is that the paradigm for exaltation and also means the previous paradigm for exaltation may not have been correct where we always assumed that exaltation meant definitely already being at the very height of something, but instead it might be still the process to some extent of rising up towards the high point and getting there instead of necessarily being at the peak of one's power, which might be more actually related to the concept of domicile starting from the idea of the Sun in the middle of the summer being at the very height of its power.

对。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

那到这一步的话，你要不要我们开始梳理这里的总结内容？接下来就要进入解释擢升星座的技术层面论证了，如果你愿意的话，我们可以把这部分内容总结一下。

So at that point, do you want to switch to the summary here of when it actually because now it gets to the technical argument of explaining the signs of exaltation, and we could probably summarize that if you'd like.

对的。

Right.

那你是想让我来牵头梳理他这个论证的推进脉络吗？

Do you want me to do you want me to kind of take the lead on how the course of his argument goes?

我先捋一下。

Let me see.

那我们一起来梳理吧，我这就把我写的总结调出来。

So let's let's do it together because let me I'll pull up the summary that I wrote.

他的内容首先是我们刚才聊过的哲学原理，接着他列出了擢升的星座。

So he starts with the philosophical rationale, which we've just gone over, and then he sets out the signs of exaltation.

他提出有两组基本星座分别对应增长和衰退。

And he says that there's two groups of cardinal signs that indicate increase and decrease.

他说白羊座和巨蟹座都属于行进、增长的类型，因为太阳运行经过这两个星座时，日照时长会开始增长，并且持续变长，太阳的势力处于不断抬升的阶段。

He says that Aries and Cancer are both advancing and increasing because when the Sun moves through those signs, the light starts increasing or is increasing and is moving upwards.

比如，当太阳运行到白羊座时，白天开始变长、夜晚开始变短；而当太阳进入巨蟹座时，白天时长达到一年中的峰值。

For example, when the Sun moves into Aries, the days start to get longer and the nights start to get shorter, or when the Sun goes into Cancer, the days are at their longest.

而另外两个本位星座是天秤座和摩羯座，他称这两个星座和“衰退”“减少”相关，因为举例来说，太阳进入天秤座后，白天开始变短、夜晚开始变长，而到了摩羯座，夜晚的时长会达到一年里的最长值。

Whereas the other two cardinal signs are Libra and Capricorn, which are associated with, he says, retreating and decreasing because when the Sun, for example, goes into Libra, the days start getting shorter and the nights start getting longer, whereas in Capricorn, the nights are at their longest.

所以这套核心逻辑本质上就是围绕光照时长的增长与缩减建立的。

So the initial paradigm is just this notion of increase and decrease of light basically.

对吧？

Right?

对的。

Right.

所以接下来他要做的是把每一颗行星以及不同的行星组都关联起来。

So what he's going to do is start associating each planet and the groups of planets.

他会把这些行星和那四个星座一一对应起来。

He's going to start associating them with these four signs.

没错。

Right.

他还会把这种增长、推进的概念和行星联系起来。

And he also associates that notion of increasing and advancing with the planets.

他提到，尤其是吉星会和增长、推进相关联，而凶星则对应着衰退和后退。

And he says, especially the benefics are associated with increasing and advancing, and the malefics are associated with decrease and retreating.

在早期内容里，它提出了一个原则：同一个星座里不可能有两颗行星同时入庙擢升，每个星座只能有一颗行星擢升。

At one point early on, it sets up a principle that two planets cannot be exalted in the same sign, so there's only one exaltation per sign.

他以太阳作为切入点来展开论述，太阳就像是所有事物的核心范本——就像在狮子座15度的宫位体系里，太阳也是作为范本和起点存在的。

And he starts with the Sun, which seems to be the paradigm for everything, just like the Sun was the paradigm and the starting point for the domicile scheme at 15 degrees of Leo.

所以他提到太阳被指派对应白羊座，此时太阳开始向北移动，昼长超过夜长，天光——也就是光的概念，想必还有热量——基本上都处于上升趋势。

So he says the Sun is assigned to Aries where it begins to move north and increase, the day over the night so that the light and the concept of light and presumably also heat is seen to be on the rise basically.

他最初将太阳设定在白羊座的15度位置，也就是这个星座的正中点。他早在这一章的引言部分就已经阐明，星座的正中点是行星力量最为强盛的位置。

And he initially assigns the Sun to 15 degrees of that sign, the very middle of the sign, which he's already established in the very introduction of this chapter that the very middle of the sign is when the planets are at their most robust.

这个15度的设定自始至终都很关键：整个体系的构建逻辑是先确定擢升星座，再把所有行星都安置在这些星座中点的15度位置，之后才在此基础上对这些度数进行调整。

And that 15 degree thing becomes important throughout because it basically starts out by first assigning the signs of exaltation and then putting all the planets right in the middle of those signs at 15 degrees, and then it starts modifying those degrees essentially from there.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Right.

我们从这里开始，然后必须做一些调整。

We we we start with this and then we have to make some adjustments.

好的。

Okay.

接着他转向月亮，月亮紧跟太阳的星座，被分配到金牛座。

So then he moves to the Moon, which follows the sign of the Sun and gets assigned to, Taurus.

这里对这一点的解释其实并不充分。

And this one's not actually explained very well here.

等到具体讨论度数时，解释会更清楚，但看起来，月亮与太阳的关系之所以这样设定，是为了为其他星体的擢升提供范式：月亮在金牛座从太阳的光束中浮现出来，开始显现，因此处于上升的初期阶段，开启其盈亏周期——在希腊化传统中，这被称为光亮的增长。

It gets explained better once you actually get to the degrees, but it appears to be that part of the reason for this and and the Moon's relationship to the Sun sets up the paradigm for the rest of the exaltations, which is that the Moon, emerges from under the the beams of the Sun or under the rays of the Sun in Taurus and makes its appearance, and therefore, is in the early phases of rising up and beginning its waxing cycle, which is known in the Hellenistic tradition as increasing in light.

是的。

Right.

而且在整个过程中，你必须记住，当他把这些行星分配到不同星座时，有时这样做是因为如果放在其他星座，概念上就会出现不匹配。

And again, through all of this, you have to remember that when he's putting these planets in different signs, sometimes he's putting them in a certain sign because if you put it in a different one, there would be a mismatch in the concepts.

所以他把太阳和月亮一起视为吉星。

So he's treating the sun and the moon together as types of benefics.

这也是为什么他说，在 domicile 方案中，太阳和月亮的 domicile 是彼此相邻的。

This was also why he says that the sun and moon's domiciles are next to one another in the domicile scheme.

因此，一旦太阳位于白羊座，月亮就必须紧挨着它。

So once we have the sun in in Aries, the moon has to go right next to him.

她可以位于双鱼座或金牛座。

She can either be in Pisces or Taurus.

但如果她在双鱼座，就会陷入太阳的光芒中。

But if she's in Pisces, she's going under the rays.

那里白天并不比夜晚长，而且她也看不见。

It's not a place where the day is longer than night, and she's not visible.

这行不通。

Well, that doesn't work.

所以我们必须把她放在金牛座，让她从太阳的光芒中显现出来，同时仍紧邻太阳的星座。

So we have to put her in Taurus where she's coming out of the rays and becoming visible and still adjacent to his sign.

对的。

Right.

所以这里是说，太阳和月亮就像……它们作为两大发光体，必须处于相邻的星座里，就像它们在世界出生星图（Thema Mundi）里的排布那样。

So it it says that the Sun and Moon just like in the that their their counterparts and that they are the two luminaries, so that they need to be together in adjacent signs just like they are in the Thema Mundi.

嗯啊。

Mhmm.

但就像你说的，如果把月亮的擢升位置设在双鱼座，那它就会处于亏相，光亮不断消减。

But like you said, if you put the Moon as exalted in Pisces, then it would be waning and decreasing in light.

而如果把它放在金牛座，它的光亮就会逐渐增强，变得越来越亮，处于上升状态。

Whereas if you put it in Taurus, then it's increasing in light and getting brighter and is on the rise.

对。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

所以这就成了起点，而后这种光亮增强或处于上升状态的原则，基本上会统一适用于所有其他行星。

So that becomes the starting point, and then that principle of increasing in light or being on the rise is basically applied across the board to the rest of the planets.

接下来话题就转到了土星，文中提到土星象征黑暗，因此与象征光明的太阳相对立。

So it then jumps to Saturn, and it says Saturn indicates darkness and is therefore opposite to the Sun, which indicates light.

所以土星被分配到天秤座——我们之前已经论证过，天秤座不仅与太阳擢升的白羊座相对，而且当太阳运行至天秤座时，白昼会开始变短，黑夜则开始变长。

And so Saturn is assigned to Libra, which we've already established is not only opposite to the exaltation of the Sun in Aries, but also in Libra is when when the Sun is in Libra, that's when the days start to become shorter and the nights start to become longer.

因此人们就会认为黑暗正在逐渐增强。

So therefore, darkness is said is thought to be on the increase.

而且土星是七颗传统可见行星中距离最远、亮度最低的一颗，所以它常和黑暗联系在一起。

And Saturn is the furthest and dimmest of the seven traditional or visible planetary bodies, so it's often associated with darkness.

没错。

Right.

事实上，在阿拉伯人和波斯人的说法里，天秤座和摩羯座也被称作暗宫。

And indeed, among the Arabs and the Persians, Libra and Capricorn were also called the dark signs.

好的。

Okay.

这个概念大概就是从这儿来的。

And this is probably where it comes from.

对的。

Right.

所以我们先把太阳放在白羊座，月亮紧随太阳身旁，接着把土星放在太阳的对宫位置。

So we start with the Sun in Aries and the Moon next to him, then we put Saturn opposite him.

没错。

Right.

这样就填满了四个星宫里的两个。

That fills up two of the four signs.

这也重现了我们在世界星盘（Thema Mundi）中见到的同一套范式：两个发光体（太阳、月亮）分别被分配给巨蟹座和狮子座，而土星则被分配给与这两个星座相对的星座，因为它是可见行星中距离最远、运行最慢、亮度最低的星体。

And it also recreates the same paradigm that we have in the Thema Mundi where you have the two luminaries assigned to Cancer and Leo, and then you have Saturn assigned to the two signs opposite to that because it's the furthest and slowest and dimmest of the visible planets.

它被分配给了摩羯座和水瓶座。

It gets assigned to Capricorn and to Aquarius.

对。

Mhmm.

所以这套擢升星盘体系里也重复出现了同样的设定。

So there's a repetition of the same thing here in the exaltation scheme.

我认为这实际上是一个关键点。

I think that actually is one of the points.

后面我们还会回到其他一些点，这些点让我觉得， domicile 方案是先被发展出来的，而 exaltation 方案则是后来或次要地发展出来的。

There'll be others that we'll come back to later that to me indicates that the domicile scheme was developed first and then the exaltation scheme was developed afterwards or secondary in some way.

别让我忘了，等我们把所有这些行星都安排好之后，我还想给你看一些东西，我觉得是我发现的。

Don't let me forget, there's something after we get all these planets in place I wanna show you, which I think I discovered.

我不记得我们之前讨论过这个。

I don't remember us discussing it.

我觉得是我发现的，不过我们先

I think I discovered it, but we'll

我很期待。

I'm excited.

好的。

Okay.

所以土星被分配到与太阳相对的星座，那里黑暗正在增强。

So Saturn gets assigned to the sign opposite to the Sun where darkness is increasing.

另一个凶星在这方面略过了一点，但它把另一个所谓的恶星——代表黑暗或衰退的星体——分配给了另一个黑暗星座，即摩羯座，此时夜晚最长、白昼最短。

The other malefic it kind of skips over this point a little bit basically, but it gives the other malefic, the other quote unquote evildoer that represents darkness or decrease to the other dark sign which is Capricorn, which is when the nights are at their longest and the days are at their shortest.

嗯。

Mhmm.

于是，它自然而然地将另一个凶星分配给了这个星座。

So then it just sort of naturally assigns the other malefic to that sign.

接着，它把最大的吉星、最正面的行星——木星——分配给了巨蟹座，这是光明达到顶峰的星座，白昼最长、夜晚最短。

And then at this point, it gives the greater benefic, the most positive planet, which is Jupiter, to the sign of Cancer, which is the sign when the light is at its sort of height, the days are at their longest and the nights are at their shortest.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因此，它就这样建立了一个非常自然的模式，这几乎毫无疑问就是擢升体系的核心基础。

So it just sets up this nice little that that really seems to be then the very foundation of the exaltations pretty much no matter what.

这基本上就是托勒密已经在他的章节中引入并某种程度上提到的内容，只是没有说得那么清楚。

And that's kind of basically what what Ptolemy already introduced and kind of says to some extent in his chapter, but just not quite as quite as clearly.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

所以这样一来，我们就通过理念、概念与自然现象的关联，确定了五颗行星的配置。

So that leaves So that gives us five of the planets by an association of ideas and concepts with natural phenomena.

对。

Right.

这样我们就确定了其中的五颗。

So that gives us five of them.

这其实挺有意思的，因为这些配置并不是随便定的，它们背后其实有一套天文学层面的底层逻辑支撑。

And it's kinda cool because it's not you know, there's it means there's an actually like an under underlying astronomical reason for those assignments.

就像星座的主星配置体系一样，这套规则是有理可依的，你完全可以从真实的天文学原理中推导出来。

Just like with the domicile scheme, it means there's a rationale from it where you can derive it from actual astronomical principles.

尽管这些天文学原理是通过符号化的思维来解读的，但它绝不是凭空臆造出来的。

And while those astronomical principles are being derived are being interpreted symbolically using symbolic thinking, it's just developed out of thin air or something like that.

对的。

Right.

那我们现在得找出金星的位置，因为她是另一颗吉星。

So we now need to find out Venus because she's the other benefic.

她还没有分到这些星座里的任何一个。

She hasn't gotten one of these signs.

有一个点直到这段文本的最后才会被解释清楚，不知道为什么，阿布·马沙尔或是那篇赫尔墨斯文献把很多要点都总结在了最后。

And this is one point that it doesn't explain until the very end of the text because for some reason, like Abu Ma'shar or the Hermes text summarizes a bunch of points at the very end.

不过有个关键内容也是到后面才解释，但现在或许是提到它的好时机：所有的外行星都是最先被分配的，包括太阳、木星、土星和火星，它们都被安排在——现在说这个可能太早了——世界主星盘（Thema Mundi）里巨蟹座上升的四个始宫内。

But one of the crucial pieces it doesn't explain till later, but this might be a good point to mention it, which is all of the superior planets then are the ones that are assigned first with the Sun, Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars, and they're all assigned to and then maybe it's too soon to introduce this, but to the four angular houses in the Thema Mundi with Cancer rising.

对。

Yeah.

文章结尾非常简略地提到了这个区分，但这似乎是另一个关键要点，而且有趣的是，这似乎还印证了施密特的观察是正确的：擢升相位的设定确实是以世界星盘（Thema Mundi）为蓝本的，部分是通过把擢升星座叠加在世界星盘的宫位上推导出来的。

And this is a distinction it mentions really briefly at the end of the text, but seems to be another crucial thing and also seems to imply that interestingly that Schmidt's observation was right that the exaltations were developed with the Thema Mundi in mind and partially by superimposing the exaltation signs on the houses of the Thema Mundi.

关于这一点还有另一个需要说明的地方。

Now there's another point to this too.

你应该注意到我们提到了太阳和木星。

You notice that we have the Sun and Jupiter.

在阿拉伯占星术中，他们谈论吉位、卓越之地、有利之地、繁忙之地等等。

In Arabic astrology, they talk about the good places or the excellent places or the good places, the busy places, and so on.

但有三个宫位被称为卓越之地，那就是上升宫、第十宫和第十一宫。

But there are three houses which they call the excellent places, and that's the Ascendant tenth and eleventh.

好的。

Okay.

如果我们想到赫尔墨斯体系，这些宫位正是由两个最强大的吉星——太阳和月亮占据的，因为月亮位于第十一宫，即双 luminaries 之一。

And if we have this Hermes scheme in mind, those are the houses occupied by the two most powerful benefics which is the Sun and Moon because the Moon is in the eleventh of the thing Two luminaries.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

而木星位于上升宫。

And Jupiter in the Ascendant.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

这是个非常好的观点。

That's a really good point.

而两个凶星位于两个传统上代表对立和疾病的凶宅。

Whereas the two malefics are in two bad houses which traditionally show opposition and illness.

那就是火星位于摩羯座的第七宫。

That's Mars in Capricorn in the seventh.

对。

Right.

第四宫代表死亡，而土星和天秤座就位于第四宫。

And death is one of the meanings for the fourth house where Saturn and Libra are.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这极其关键，这可能是一个次要因素。

I think that's super, super crucial is this may be a secondary thing.

我前几天在想，这些宫位的象征意义可能来自哪里。

I was thinking about the other day where some significations the houses could be coming from.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

因为第七宫，如果你记得的话，我在宫位章节中多次提到过，有两本早期关于宫位的著作。

Because the seventh also If you remember, one of the things that I I talked about a lot in the houses chapter is how there were these two early books on the houses.

一本归于赫尔墨斯，提出了一套象征意义；另一本归于阿斯克勒庇俄斯，提出了另一套象征意义。

There was one attributed to Hermes that introduced a set of significations and one attributed to Asclepius that introduced a set of significations.

在赫尔墨斯的文本中——假设这是更早的那本，我也相信正是它引入了‘喜乐’体系——将死亡这一主题分配给了第七宫。

And in the Hermes text, is presumably the earlier one, which I also believe is the text that introduced the joys, it assigned the topic of death to the seventh house.

而阿斯克勒庇俄斯的文本则基于不同的理由，将死亡移至第八宫。

And it was the Asclepius text that moved death to the eighth house based on some different rationale.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

但除了第七宫是太阳落山、隐没于地平线之下的天文依据外，有趣的是，在擢升体系中，火星——这颗凶星——与第七宫相关联。

But aside from the fact that the seventh is the setting place where the Sun sets and sinks out of sight, which is an obvious astronomical rationale, it's interesting that in the exaltation scheme that Mars, one of the malefic planets, is associated with the seventh.

当然，在希腊化占星术中，第四宫也与死亡有关。

And then, of course, the fourth house also in Hellenistic astrology was associated with death as well.

嗯。

Mhmm.

祖先，指的是那些被埋葬并已离去的人，但这仍然是死亡的一个方面。

And the ancestors in the sense of, know, they're the people who are buried and gone, but it's still an aspect of death.

而第一、第十和第十一宫则特别与生命、繁荣和上升趋势相关。

Whereas the first, tenth, and eleventh are particularly associated with life and thriving and being on the upswing.

对。

Right.

而且，一个很好的观点是，在许多列表中，第一、第十和第十一宫被认为是最积极的宫位，或者在一些从最佳到最差宫位的排序中被称为最富有的宫位。

And also, it's a good point that the first, tenth, and eleventh in many of the lists are said to be the most positive houses or the most crematistic houses in some of the lists of best house to worst house.

是的。

Yeah.

在阿拉伯语中也是如此。

And so, it's like that in Arabic.

他们通常用‘合适的地方’来指代好的宫位，但对于第一、第十和第十一宫，他们用的是‘卓越的地方’，即‘Zayedun’。

The normal word they use for the good places is the suitable places, but the word they use for those three, one, ten, and eleven, is the excellent places, Zayedun.

好的。

Okay.

说完这个，我之所以提到这点，很抱歉打断了之前的话题，但我这么做是因为接下来我们要开始解释金星和水星了。

Moving from there, this is where and I brought that up, and sorry to have interrupted, but the reason I did was because then it moves on to trying to explain Venus and Mercury.

有意思的是，最后有一个表述提到了所有——不是外行星，那个词我一下想不起来了。

What's interesting is the statement at the very end makes that statement that all of the Not the outer planets, but the word escapes me.

太阳之外的那些外行星之间有什么区别来着？

What's the difference between the outer planets outside of the Sun?

地外行星。

Superior planets.

更高阶的。

Superior.

所有地外行星都被归入本位宫，只有地内行星会被归入除此之外的宫位，具体来说就是那两个变动宫。

That all the superior planets are assigned to angles, and then it's only the inferior planets that are assigned to houses outside of that, specifically the two cadent houses Mhmm.

也就是第三宫和第九宫。

Which are the third and the ninth.

好的。

Okay.

因此，此时开始以金星为起点，解释为什么金星被分配给双鱼座。

So at this point, it starts with Venus and starts explaining why Venus is assigned to Pisces.

我们或许可以说，之所以从金星开始，是因为我们还剩下一个吉星未分配。

We could maybe say that the reason we start with Venus is because we still have a benefic left over.

对。

Right.

我们还有一个未分配的吉星，同时面临如何安置它的难题。

We have a benefic that we haven't assigned, and we have an issue about where to put it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

实际上可能有几个重叠的原因，其中有一个可能没有被明确说明。

And there's actually probably one There's a few overlapping reasons, and there's one that it maybe doesn't explain.

但第一个被解释的原因是：金星被分配给双鱼座，是因为金星与太阳的角距离最大不超过47度。

But the first one it starts explaining is it says that Venus is assigned to Pisces because Venus cannot get more than 47 degrees away from the Sun.

它和太阳的角距离不会超过两个星座，这一点就立刻限制了可选的范围。

It can't get more than two signs away from the Sun, so that right away limits your options.

而月亮已经将金牛座选为自己的擢升位置，并且有一条既定规则：任何一个星座都不能有两颗行星共享同一个擢升位。

And since the Moon has already occupied, Taurus as its exaltation, and it's been established that no planet no sign can have two planets sharing an exaltation.

这就意味着金星无法选择金牛座，那你就只能考虑双子座或是双鱼座，这两个是太阳周边两个星座范围内唯一还未被占用的星座。

That means Venus can't take Taurus, so then you would look to potentially Gemini or potentially to Pisces, which are then the two signs unoccupied within two signs of the Sun.

这一点对我来说特别有意思，因为它和我曾经研究过的一个方向不谋而合——我当时就在探讨这会不会就是行星擢升制度的起源，而我认为这段内容确实考量到了这个可能性。

And this is where it gets really interesting to me because it ties in with a direction that I'd been researching at one point about whether this could be the origin of the exaltations, and I think it does take it into account.

书中明确提到，既然金星是一颗湿润且属阴的行星，它就应该被分配给双鱼座，因为双鱼座同样是湿润且属阴的星座。这比把金星分配给双子座要合理得多——双子座是属阳的星座，而且还是风象星座，按照斯多葛学派的元素理论，风象是寒冷的。

It says specifically that since Venus is a wet and feminine planet, it should be assigned to Pisces because Pisces is also a wet and feminine sign, and that that makes more sense than assigning it to Gemini, which would be a masculine sign, and it would also be an air sign, which would be cold using the stoic elemental theory.

对。

Yeah.

如果我们把金星放在双子座的早期位置，或者直接放在双子座，它和太阳的距离确实可能达到47、48度，但（原作者）不认可这个星座匹配。

If we put her in early Gemini or in Gemini, that's possibly 47, 48 degrees away from the Sun, but he doesn't like the sign match.

同样的，如果我们把金星放在水瓶座，水瓶座也会和双子座一样，是属阳的星座。而且无论他采用哪种元素分类体系，他都觉得这个匹配不合适。

Likewise, we did it If we put her in Aquarius, that would also, like Gemini, be this masculine this masculine sign and depending on what elemental scheme he's using, he doesn't think the match is good.

对。

Right.

所以这真的很……而且它……

So this is really And it's

而且离白羊座更远，这也是他考虑的一部分。

also farther farther away from Aries, think, is part of his thinking too.

是的。

Yeah.

因为另一点是，他让吉星木星与凶星火星相对，但太阳却与土星相对，这意味着你并不能让两颗吉星同时与两颗凶星相对。

Like, because that's the other thing is he has the benefic Jupiter opposing the malefic Mars, but then because the Sun is the one that's opposing Saturn, it means you don't have both of the benefics opposing both of the malefics.

但如果你把金星放在双鱼座，稍后当我们谈到它的度数时，会发现它正好在双鱼座的末端被提升，你几乎仍然能获得金星至少位于与土星相对的角宫三合区的效果。

But if you put Venus in Pisces, and later, once we get to its degree, we'll find out that it's exalted right at the very end of Pisces, you kind of almost still get the effect of having Venus at least in the opposing angular triad opposite to Saturn.

对。

Right.

不过我想快速强调的一点是，他把双鱼座视为湿润且阴性的星座，这一点非常重要，因为后来在讨论水星时也会再次出现，我几年前在试图理解提升点时就注意到了这一点，当时我绞尽脑汁地思考：如果你采用斯多葛学派的元素理论，其中对四大元素的属性定义，与亚里士多德学派对四大元素的属性定义是不同的。

So the point though that I wanna make really quickly about him treating Pisces as like a wet feminine sign is really important because it comes up again later with Mercury, which I noticed at one point years ago when I was trying to figure out the exaltations and kind of racking my brain with it, that if you took the Stoic elements where there was a difference between the Stoic qualities when applied to the four elements and the Aristotelian qualities when you apply them to the four elements.

在瓦伦斯阐述的斯多葛学派特质理论中，风象星座被定义为“冷”，在黄道上与属“热”的火象星座相对；水象星座被定义为“湿”，与属“干”的土象星座相对。

In the stoic qualities that Valens explains, it makes, the air signs cold and opposite in the zodiac to the fire signs which are hot, and it makes the water signs wet in opposition to the earth signs which are dry.

这一点非常关键，需要再次说明：这套设定并不属于阿布·马沙尔，我记得阿布·马沙尔实际上采用的是亚里士多德的分类标准。

So this is really important because since the text and again, this isn't Abu Ma'shar because Abu Ma'shar I think actually uses the Aristotelian assignments.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但赫尔墨斯的原文里明确提到水象星座双鱼座属“湿”，这说明它实际上沿用了斯多葛学派对星座特质的定义，这一点非常重要，因为和同样采用这套标准的早期学者瓦伦斯等人的论述是完全一致的。

But the Hermes text itself says that the water sign Pisces is wet, which means it's actually drawing on the stoic qualities of the signs, which is very important because that's more consistent with early authors like Valens who do the same thing.

但有一次，我把星座的斯多葛学派特质套用了进去——托勒密在著作里提到过行星的一些基础特质。

But one time, I took the stoic qualities of the signs, and I applied them to in Ptolemy, he gives you some primary qualities of the planets.

我发现，如果把托勒密描述的这些行星基础特质，和斯多葛学派元素体系下黄道星座的特质对照，几乎所有行星的特质都能和对应黄道星座的特质吻合。

And I noticed that when you took the primary qualities of the planets that Ptolemy describes, almost all of them actually match up with the sign of the zodiac and the quality of that sign using the Stoic elements.

举个例子，就像我们刚在原文里读到的，金星的核心特质是湿润，而双鱼座作为水象星座，核心特质同样是湿润。

So for example, as we just read in the text, Venus is primarily wet, and Pisces as a water sign would also primarily be wet.

按托勒密的说法，太阳的核心特质是炎热，而白羊座作为火象星座，核心特质也同样是炎热。

The Sun according to Ptolemy is primarily hot, and Aries as a fire sign would be primarily hot.

这与土星相反，土星被认为主要是寒冷的，而天秤座作为风象星座也被认为主要是寒冷的。

And this would be opposite to Saturn which is said to be primarily cold, and Libra as an air sign is said to be primarily cold as well.

木星在这个对应中不匹配，因为至少根据托勒密的说法，木星主要是热的，而巨蟹座作为水象星座应该是主要湿润的。

Jupiter is one that didn't match in this because at least according to Ptolemy, Jupiter is said to be primarily hot, and Cancer is supposed to be as a water sign primarily wet.

火星是匹配的，因为它主要被认为是干燥的，而摩羯座作为土象星座也是干燥的。

Mars matches because it's primarily supposed to be dry, and Capricorn as an Earth sign is dry.

月亮主要被认为是湿润的，但根据它位于金牛座，金牛座是土象星座，所以应该是干燥的。

The Moon is supposed to primarily be wet, but according to, being in Taurus, that's an Earth sign, so it should be dry.

水星是混合的，但我们稍后会再讨论水星，因为托勒密说水星在湿润和干燥之间交替，而处女座的主要属性，作为土象星座，根据斯多葛学派的特质，应该是干燥的。

And Mercury was mixed, but we'll actually come back to Mercury because Ptolemy says that Mercury alternates between wet and dry, and the primary quality of Virgo, since it's an Earth sign according to the stoic qualities, should be dry.

这是我多年前注意到的一件事，当时我觉得这可能是对的，但并不完全吻合。

So this is one of those things that I noticed years ago that I thought could be it, but it didn't fit completely.

但我怀疑，这是否因为我从托勒密那里提取了行星的属性，而更早的作者可能对行星的主要属性有不同的理解。

But I wondered if that's because I was drawing the planetary qualities from Ptolemy and if the the earlier author might have conceptualized the primary planet planetary qualities as slightly different.

是的。

Mhmm.

当我们回到水星时，会发现这位赫尔墨斯作者主要将水星描述为干燥的，这与将水星置于处女座——一个干燥的星座——完全吻合。

So when we come back to Mercury, we'll find this Hermetic author primarily describing Mercury as dry, which then completely matches with putting it in Virgo, is a dry sign.

我认为这实际上证明了早期的赫尔墨斯作者所持有的行星特质可能与托勒密略有不同，从而使这一体系完全符合斯多葛学派的性质。

And I think that actually proves that the early Hermetic author might have had slightly different qualities than Ptolemy, which would make this scheme fully consistent with the stoic qualities.

水星则可能与湿润的金星相对。

Mercury could then be opposite Venus who is wet.

是的。

Yeah.

这将为将水星置于处女座提供更充分的合理依据。

It would provide more of a a really strong rationale for putting

是的。

Yeah.

如果他是这样思考的话。

If that's how he's thinking.

这其中或许存在一些模糊的逻辑，但我们还是会继续探讨下去，我认为整体上好处多于弊端。

There might be a little bit of fuzzy logic involved in this, but we're gonna follow through and I think there's more good than bad in all of this.

当然。

Sure.

对。

Yeah.

还有另一点是，这段文字似乎包含了一些额外的内容，但似乎也有一些原本可能被使用过的部分，它并没有提及或包含，因此这里可能涉及多种情况。

And that's the other thing is that it doesn't This text seems to have additional pieces, but then there still seem to be some pieces that were potentially used that it doesn't introduce or that it didn't have, so there may be multiple things going on here.

好的，所以金星被分配到双鱼座。

All right, so Venus is assigned to Pisces.

这样分配的主要理由是，双鱼座是一个湿润且阴性的星座。

Its primary rationale for that is that it's wet and feminine sign.

接着它转向水星，说水星被分配到处女座。

Then it moves to Mercury, which it says is assigned to Virgo.

它说水星的情况就有点复杂了。

And it says Mercury is where things get a little dicey.

它说水星离太阳永远不会超过一个星座，但问题是，此时相邻的两个星座已经被金星（在双鱼座）和月亮（在金牛座）占用了，因此即使按照金星的逻辑，水星本应被分配到其中一个相邻星座，它也无法做到。

It says Mercury never gets more than one sign from the Sun, but the problem is that both of the adjacent signs at this point are taken up by Venus on the one side in Pisces and the Moon on the other side in Taurus, so it can't assign it to either of those adjacent signs even though following the logic of Venus it would ideally like to.

所以它最终将水星分配给处女座，这成为了水星的尊位。

So what it does then is it ends up assigning Mercury to Virgo, and that becomes the exaltation of Mercury.

你跟上这里所涉及的逻辑了吗？

And did you follow part of the logic that was going on here?

是的。

Yeah.

他说，理想情况下我们会把他放在金牛座，因为金牛座是干性星座，而水星是干性行星。

He's saying that ideally we would put him in Taurus because Taurus is a dry sign and Mercury is a dry planet.

但月亮已经在那里了，所以我们不能用它。

But the Moon is already there so we can't use that.

摩羯座也不能放，因为火星已经在那里了，也不能用。

Capricorn can't put it there because Mars is already there, can't use that.

所以我们只能考虑处女座，尽管它离得很远。

So we have to look at Virgo though it's very far away.

不。

No.

你刚刚其实解释清楚了，我直到现在才明白。

You just actually explained it because I didn't understand until right now.

它之所以这样分配，是因为明确说水星是干燥的，而我之前不明白为什么它要把它分配给月亮的三合宫，也就是原文所说的那样。

It's taking that assignment because it says explicitly that Mercury is dry, and I didn't understand why it was trying to assign it to the triplicity of the Moon, which is what it says.

它说‘是的’。

It says Yeah.

它必须被分配给月亮的三合宫，也就是金牛座。

It has to be assigned to the triplicity of the Moon, which is Taurus.

我不明白为什么是这样，原因在于水星是干燥的，而三个土象星座都是干燥的星座。

And I didn't understand why that was, and the reason why that was is because it's dry and the Earth sign the three Earth signs are the dry signs.

对。

Right.

哇。

Wow.

好的。

Okay.

所以他说，在太阳进入处女座的季节，天气会更加干燥。

So he's saying plus in the season when the Sun enters Virgo, the weather is more drying.

然后他回到关于白昼长度的观点，说：记住，白羊座和处女座时期的白昼长度是相同的。

And then he returns to his idea of daylight and he says, Remember that the length of daylight in the days of both Aries and Virgo is the same.

因为当太阳经过白羊座时，白昼以与太阳经过处女座时白昼缩短完全相同的速率在变长。

Because when the Sun is moving through Aries, the days are getting longer in exactly the same rate as the days start to get shorter when he's moving through Virgo.

好的。

Okay.

所以这是众所周知的。

So it's well known.

这两个星座被称为白昼长度相等的星座。

Those two signs are called signs that share equal daylight.

因此，尽管某些逻辑看起来有点像是他凭空变出来的魔术。

So even though some of the logic seems a little like he's sort of pulling something out of a magic hat

对。

Right.

他还是在反复援引日照时长的概念，来佐证将水星落入处女座的说法是合理的。

He is still returning to the idea of daylight to justify putting Mercury in Virgo.

好的。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

我现在觉得这比我第一次读的时候好理解多了。

I think that makes a lot more sense than when I first read it.

之前我还觉得这部分内容讲得很牵强，甚至开始怀疑这套逻辑是不是站不住脚，嗯……

It seemed like this is a part where it was getting really dicey and, like, we started wondering if the logic was breaking down or Mhmm.

要不就是他们没法给这个说法拿出一套连贯合理的解释，要么就是后来的这位作者根本不清楚原本的依据是什么。

Either they didn't have a good consistent reason for this one or this later author didn't know what the original reason was.

但现在这个说法确实渐渐通顺了，它始终是从“水星本身属性偏干燥”这个概念出发的，所以和金星一样，水星也应该被归入一颗和它自身属性契合、同样干燥的星座里。

But this is actually starting to make more sense that, again, it's proceeding from this notion that Mercury is primarily dry and it therefore should be like Venus assigned to a sign that is also dry that fits its nature.

所以它必须被分配给一个土象星座，而目前唯一空着的土象星座就是处女座。

So it has to be assigned to an Earth sign, and there's only one Earth sign that's open at this point Mhmm.

那就是处女座。

And that is Virgo.

是的。

Mhmm.

然后这也就解释了它最后是如何收尾的：说水星的象征意义必须与金星相反，因为它们具有对立的特质和含义。

And then that then explains the final way that it wraps it up by saying that Mercury's significations, it has to be opposite to Venus because they have contrasting qualities and meanings.

而两个最主要的区别是：金星是湿润的，水星是干燥的，因此它们本质上就是相互对立的，就像其他行星之间的对立关系，例如太阳与土星，代表光明与黑暗、热量与寒冷。

And the two primary things then are that Venus is wet and Mercury is dry, so they're naturally in opposition to each other just like, the opposition between the other planets between, for example, the Sun and Saturn and indicating light versus darkness or heat versus cold.

是的。

Mhmm.

雷托里乌斯也有类似的推理，他试图对比金星和水星的实际象征意义，并解释这就是它们被赋予尊位的原因。

Rhetorius has a similar rationale where he tries to, contrast the actual significations of Venus and Mercury, and he explains that that's the rationale for the exaltations.

这让我开始怀疑，雷托里乌斯的这种推理是否也源自于这部早期赫尔墨斯文本，该文本正是从对比金星和水星的实际象征意义开始的。

And it actually made me wonder if maybe part of Rhetorius' rationale was also explained in this early Hermetic text where it starts contrasting actual significations of Venus and Mercury.

确实如此。

Well, it does.

他在这里提到了。

He does here.

他说水星象征智慧，而金星象征愉悦，他认为这两种特质或追求是相互对立的。

He says that Mercury signifies wisdom whereas Venus signifies pleasure, and he says that those two those two characteristics or pursuits are contrary to each other.

好的。

Okay.

完美。

Perfect.

就像星座主星体系一样，我们也能看到类似的模式：金星的主星星座天秤座和金牛座，与火星的主星星座天蝎座和白羊座相对，这体现了金星的统合特质与火星的分离特质之间的对比。作者在设定擢升位时，可能也怀有类似的想法或体系，将某些行星彼此对立安排。

So just like the domicile scheme where we also see similar We see planets assigned to certain signs like the Venus signs in the domiciles like Libra and Taurus are opposite to the Mars signs which are Scorpio and Aries, and they contrast the unifying significations of Venus with the separating significations of Mars that the author underlying this may have had a similar idea or scheme in mind when they were trying to put certain planets opposite to each other in the exaltations.

是的。

Yeah.

这一点很容易理解。

And it's easy to see that.

我的意思是，看看木星和火星，木星聚集事物并创造更多生命，而火星则杀死和毁灭生命。

I mean, if look at Jupiter and Mars, Jupiter accumulates things and generates more life whereas Mars kills and destroys life.

在资源方面，他们会说木星会积累资源，而火星则会分散资源。

And in terms of resources, they'll say that Jupiter will accumulate resources, but Mars scatters them.

如果你看看太阳和木星，或者实际上太阳和月亮一起，与土星相比，日月代表更多的荣耀、知名度和成功，而土星则代表更多的辛勤工作和默默无闻。

And if you look at the sun and Jupiter or actually the sun and the moon together, the sun and the moon together versus Saturn, they the luminaries signify more glory and notoriety and success whereas Saturn signifies more hard work and obscurity.

对。

Right.

回到火星和木星，即使只是火星象征战争、木星象征和平这一基本区别。

Back to Mars and Jupiter, even just the difference between Mars signifying something as basic as war and Jupiter signifying peace.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以这些说法在这里都能说得通。

So this is all over the place here.

这一切都是以光明与黑暗、兴盛与衰败的对立理念为基础的。

It's all underwritten by this idea of contrasts of light and darkness and increasing and decreasing.

没错。

Right.

另外还有一点，斯多葛学派的元素特质很可能是通过赫密斯主义引入进来的，因为赫密斯文本采纳了斯多葛学派赋予各元素的这些特质。

And then also, secondarily, this Stoic elemental qualities that are probably being imported in through Hermeticism because the Hermetic texts adopted the Stoic qualities as assigned to the elements.

所以这背后存在一个底层基础——我不确定能不能说它是纯元素性的，它更像是一种准元素性的基础，也就是世间万物背后的那些特质或元素，说白了就是宇宙的基石，这基本上完全源自古希腊罗马的希腊化哲学。

So there's an underlying I'm not sure if Not elemental, sort of quasi elemental, but also underlying basis of what are the qualities or elements underlying things, the building blocks of the cosmos, so to speak, which is just straight from Hellenistic Greco Roman Greek philosophy, basically.

所以说这就像是被应用起来的希腊哲学。

So it's like applied Greek philosophy.

这正是施密特这类学者一直以来研究的核心：应用化的希腊哲学——也就是把希腊哲学的原理提取出来，再以此衍生出占星学的技法。

This is truly what some people like Schmidt, for example, were always looking for, which is applied Greek philosophy, taking Greek philosophical principles and then generating astrological techniques out of them.

对。

Mhmm.

好的。

Alright.

那我们回到刚才的讲解上。

So back to our explanation.

到这个节点，擢升星座的内容已经解释完毕，接下来内容会过渡到另一个部分，开始阐述擢升度数及其设立的缘由。

So at that point, it's explained the signs of exaltation, and now it transitions into the other section where it starts trying to establish the degrees of exaltation and the reason for those.

而在这之前

And before

在我们聊到那部分之前，我能先跟你讲讲我之前提过的那个我觉得是自己想出来的东西吗？因为我记得我们没讨论过这个。

we get there, can I tell you about that thing that I said that I think I invented because I don't remember us discussing it?

把所有行星都在其擢升位置的星图展示出来吧。

Show the diagram of all the planets in their exaltations.

好的。

Okay.

好了，出来了。

There we go.

它显示出来了吗？

Is it showing it?

好了。

There we go.

现在我们从顶部开始，像闪电一样上下交错地移动，从太阳开始，观察我们如何按照亮度顺序依次经过所有行星。

So now we're going to start at the top and we're going to zigzag back and forth like a lightning flash starting with the sun and watch how we start moving through all of the planets in the order of brightness.

首先从太阳开始，最亮的行星。

So start with the sun, the brightest planet.

然后到月亮，第二亮的。

Move to the moon, the next brightest.

接着到金星，第三亮的，再往下到木星，第四亮的，然后到火星，第五亮的。

Move to Venus, the next brightest, down to Jupiter, the next brightest, over to Mars, the next brightest.

你可以说我们接着到水星，第六亮的，尽管它并不总是可见，最后以土星收尾，在最底部。

You could say we move down to Mercury, the next brightest even though he isn't always visible and then we end up with Saturn at the bottom.

好的。

Okay.

所以最亮的行星在图表的顶部，最暗的行星在图表的底部。

So the brightest planets are at the top of the chart and the dimmest planets are at the bottom of the chart.

哦，对，你说得对。

Oh, yeah, you're right.

光明与黑暗。

Light and darkness.

是的，这真的很有意思。

Yeah, that's really interesting.

而且也许还可以根据角三合组来分组，这在喜悦中是非常重要的一部分。

And also maybe even groups them based on the angular triads which were such an important piece in the joys.

嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我的意思是，到了这个阶段，关于星座，我认为即使作者没有完全解释这一点，接下来也开始提到主题世界了，这暗示着主题世界正在被纳入考量。

I mean, and and at this point with the signs, I think we should even though the author doesn't fully explain this, it does start talking about the Thema Mundi next, which then implies that the Thema Mundi is being taken into account.

但这时我们也应该记住一些其他的体系，比如行星在它们的擢升星座时，如果是白昼行星，则与它们的守护星座成三合相；如果是夜间行星，则与它们的守护星座成六合相。

But this is when we should also remember some of those other schemes, like the fact that the planets, when they're in their sign of exaltation, are also configured to They're domiciles by trine if they're a daytime planet, or they're domiciles by sextile if they're a nighttime planet.

所以我猜作者在考虑其他一些未在这段文字中完全阐明的额外原因，但这些原因很可能也存在于背景中，是的。

So I bet there are other additional reasons that were being taken into account by this author that maybe aren't fully clarified in this text, but are also probably in the background as well Mhmm.

这可以解释某些现象。

That could explain certain things.

好的。

All right.

比如金星，为什么金星会落在双鱼座，或者其他类似的情况。

Such as like Venus, for example, why Venus should end up in Pisces, for example, or other things like that.

好的。

All right.

所以回到前面，让我把图表再放出来。

So back to the Let me put the diagram back up.

现在它开始解释度数了。

So now it starts going into explaining the degrees.

它提到的一个内容有点奇怪，相关的解释也比较仓促，它开篇就提出所有星体的位置参数都应该以赤道为基准来测算。

One of the things that it does is a little weird, and it explains this somewhat quickly, but it starts out by saying that things should be measured relative to the equator.

那当它开始转而讲解度数相关内容的时候，你能不能把这个点再详细解释一下？

And can you explain that point a little bit when it starts making this transition into explaining the degrees?

其实他是想建立一套通用的理解标准。

Well, he wants a general standard for understanding.

他想要绘制星盘。

He wants to cast a chart.

他想要绘制一张星盘，在这张星盘里，他

He wants to cast a chart in which he

能够

can

将相关的概念关联起来。

associate certain ideas together.

所以他希望绘制出这样一张星盘：在上升点上有特定星体，我们把太阳、白羊座和中天归为一类，因为这些征象都代表增长，只是增长的具体方式各不相同。

And so he wants to cast a chart where we have certain planet on the ascent where we we group together the sun, Aries, and the midheaven altogether because all of those indicate increase but in different ways.

他还打算为赤道绘制一张星盘，因为在赤道上，所有星座的上升时间大致相等。

He's also going to associate he's going to cast want to cast a chart for the equator because the ascensions of all of the signs are roughly equal at that time.

好的。

Okay.

正是根据赤道上的旋转，星座才会到达中天。

And it's in accordance with rotation on the equator that signs come to be on the Midheaven.

因此，为了确定度数，他将为赤道位置绘制一张星盘，观察当我们将这些光明星座与赤道上某点的实际上升点和中天关联时会发生什么。

So in order to generate the degrees, he's going to want to cast a chart for the location of the equator and see what happens when we start associating these signs of light with the actual Ascendant and Midheaven for a location on the equator.

对。

Right.

当他开始谈论度数时，一个有趣的地方是，他开始更加关注中天以及中天和角宫的概念。

And one of the things that's interesting at this point when he starts talking about the degrees is he really starts focusing more on the Midheaven and the notion of the Midheaven and the notion of angularity.

这似乎是本章后续部分用来确立尊贵度数的基本范式之一。

That seems to be one of the underlying paradigms that it applies throughout the rest of this chapter for establishing the exaltation degrees.

是的。

Yeah.

我们会看到，当他逐步展开时，记住，他一开始就在谈论那些逐渐增强的事物。

We'll see that as he goes through, remember, he started at the very beginning talking about things that are increasing.

处于或朝向轴心度数的行星，其角力正在增强。

Well, planets that are on or moving towards the axial degrees are increasing in angularity.

因此，这是绘制实际星盘并调整行星度数的一个原因，这样你就可以将关键行星置于真正朝向角点的位置。

So that's one reason to cast an actual chart and adjust the planetary degrees because then you can put key planets so that they're actually advancing towards the angle.

对的。

Right.

所以，在这一部分的开头，他迅速提出了主题世界的概念，说明在宇宙诞生的这个假设性星盘中，上升点位于巨蟹座15度。

So what he does right at the beginning of this section is he establishes he starts talking about the Thema Mundi really quickly and how at the birth of the cosmos in this hypothetical chart for the birth of the world, the Ascendant was at 15 degrees of Cancer.

因此，他绘制了一个星盘，指出如果你在赤道上，当上升点位于巨蟹座15度时，中天将位于白羊座18度。

And so he casts a chart where saying that if you're at the equator and you cast a chart for when the Ascendant is at 15 degrees of Cancer, the Midheaven will be at the eighteenth degree of Aries.

所以木星会像往常一样位于上升点。

So Jupiter will be on the on the Ascendant like normal.

它会在巨蟹座15度，但中天会在白羊座17度。

He'll be at 15 degrees Cancer, but the Midheaven will be at 17 Aries.

对。

Right.

那我现在把示意图放出来。

And so here, let me throw a diagram up.

所以上升点落在巨蟹座15度，这个结果是对的，因为你前几天还用Janus软件重新计算过这个数值。

So the Ascendant at 15 Cancer and and that's true because you you recalculated this in Janus the other day.

而且如果你身处赤道地区，当上升点抵达巨蟹座15度时，中天会落在白羊座17度左右。

And the Ascendant If you're at the equator, when the Ascendant's at 15 degrees of Cancer, the Midheaven will be at about 17 degrees of Aries.

是的。

Yes.

这就有个问题，因为我们之前假设所有行星在其星座中的基本位置都是在中间15度的。

And this is a problem because we have assumed that the basic position of all of the planets in their signs was in the middle at 15.

但如果太阳位于白羊座15度，它就不再朝向中天移动了。

But if the Sun is at 15 Aries, he's no longer moving towards the Midheaven.

它已经经过了中天，这违背了我们将正确概念组合在一起的逻辑。

He's already passed it, which violates our logic of grouping the concepts, the right concepts together.

对的。

Right.

所以在这个节点，作者转而开始着重论述一个观点：既然我们讨论的是擢升，以及行星的上升或运势上行，那么这颗行星就需要处于上升状态，或是恰好落在四轴点的精确度数上。

So at this point, the author switches to and really starts emphasizing the idea of, since we're talking about exaltation and the planet rising up or being on the increase, that the planet needs to be rising up or exactly on the exact degree of one of the quadrant angles

是的。

Mhmm.

也就是上升点的度数、下降点的度数、天底的度数，或者中天点的精确度数。

Which would be like the degree of the Ascendant, the degree of the Descendant, the degree of the IC, or the exact degree of the Midheaven.

这套理论运用了象限点，以及象限宫位和后续的始宫作为核心区域，行星在这些区域会升起、力量逐渐增强；也正因此，才能推导出行星必须处于这些区间内，才能落在自己的擢升度数上。

And it's using the quadrant angles and and basically quadrant houses and the angular houses after them as like the crucial areas where a planet is rising up and increasing in power, and therefore, that is how you derive the planets have to be in those zones in order to be in their exaltation degrees.

对。

Right.

因为如果你要移动一颗行星的位置，既可以顺推也可以逆推。

Because if you're going to move a planet, you could move it either forwards or backwards.

如果你顺推移动这颗行星，会得到一种结果。

If you move it forwards, it will get one result.

如果是逆向移动它，从落在轴星的角度来看，就会产生另一种结果。

If you move it backwards, it will get another result in terms of angularity.

所以通过运用星盘格局中的轴性原则，他就可以排除掉某些调整方案了。

So by using the principle of angularity, he's able to rule out certain adjustments.

好的。

Okay.

但此时作者想要把这个内容和世界星盘（Thema Mundi）联系起来，这也是为什么他将上升点固定在巨蟹座15度。

But it it's like at this point, the author wants to tie this into the Thema Mundi, and so that's why he fixes the Ascendant at 15 degrees of Cancer.

而且他还说木星的擢升位置就在那里。

And he also says that Jupiter has its exaltation there.

我在想，他是不是一开始就直接把木星归到那个位置了？

And I think right does he assign Jupiter immediately right at the start?

我记得这事就写在第一段里。

I think it's in the first paragraph.

对不对？

Right?

对的。

Yeah.

他确实是这么做的。

He does.

而且他给出了一套近似哲学的解释，说木星应该直接落在世界主星盘（Thema Mundi）的上升点上。这段内容是经过阿布·马沙尔（Abu Ma'shar）转述的，阿布·马沙尔大概提到，世界或者说天球的核心特质是评判与秩序。

And he gives a little quasi philosophical rationale saying that Jupiter should be directly on the Ascendant of the Thema Mundi, and that he says something like This is filtered through Abu Ma'shar's paraphrase, but Abu Ma'shar says something like, The world or the sphere is characterized by judgment and order.

而既然这些特质也恰好是木星的象征属性，那木星就理应落在世界主星盘的这个上升点上，这也正是它的擢升位置所在。

And since those are also the qualities assigned to Jupiter, Jupiter belongs directly on the Ascendant there of the Thema Mundi, and that is where it finds its exaltation.

对。

Yeah.

这还挺有意思的，因为这么一来木星就成了所有擢升位置的核心点，嗯。

And that's kind of interesting because then it sort of sets Jupiter as like the central point for the exaltations Mhmm.

这几乎形成了一套范式，就好比在行星喜乐体系里，水星被放在上升点，精准落在上升度上的情况一样。

Almost like a paradigm in the same way that like Mercury was set in the Ascendant right at the degree of the Ascendant essentially for the planetary joys scheme.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

这很有趣，或许对于理解整体的擢升有相关意义。

So that's interesting and perhaps relevant in terms of understanding the exaltations in general.

我不确定我们是否还应该从中进一步推导出一些与木星相关的内容，或者别的什么。

And I don't know if we're supposed to derive something Jupiterian from them additionally or what.

所以它从将木星分配到上升点开始。

So it starts with that, assigning Jupiter to the Ascendant.

然后它解释说，太阳的擢升理由是：当上升点正好位于巨蟹座15度（如主题宇宙中那样），中天位于白羊座17度时，太阳就不能被擢升在白羊座15度——因为那样它会处于宫位的衰退侧，动态上会偏离其最高点。

And then it says like, what it does, the rationale for the Sun is basically if when the Ascendant is exactly 15 degrees Cancer like it is in the Thema Mundi, if the Midheaven is at 17 Aries, that means the Sun can't be exalted at 15 degrees of Aries in the middle of the sign because then it would be on the cadent side dynamically of the quadrant house, and it would start to decline or fall away from being at its height.

因此，它指出太阳的擢升点应设在白羊座18度，那时当上升点位于赤道上的巨蟹座15度时，正好位于中天位置。

So instead, it says the exaltation of the Sun should be at 18 degrees of Aries, would be just basically on the Midheaven, at that time when the Ascendant is at 15 degrees of Cancer in at the equator.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

然后解释一下这里涉及的四分位和顺序数字问题，对吧？

And then explain the there's the cardinal ordinal number issue here, right?

这就是为什么太阳的擢升位置通常被列为19度白羊座的原因。

Because this is why the Sun's usually listed at being at like 19 Aries as its exaltation.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

就像二十世纪的所有年份都以数字19开头，尽管那是二十世纪一样。

It's like it's like how in the twentieth century, the the all of the dates for the years begin with the number 19 even though it's the twentieth century.

这里的情况类似。

Similar thing here.

白羊座第十九度是从18到1859年。

The nineteenth degree of Aries is from '18 to 1859.

所以在拉丁语、阿拉伯语和希腊语中，人们经常会混淆我们讨论的究竟是基数19，还是序数的第十九。

So there's all in in the Latin and Arabic and the Greek, there's frequently a confusion among whether we're talking about say 19 or the nineteenth.

而这份文献则非常一致，在表述上清晰连贯，不会混淆到底是说数字19还是第十九位。

And so this text is very consistent in being in being clear and consistent about whether it's talking about, say, 19 or the nineteenth.

所以这里很明确，它指的是白羊座的第18度区间。

And so it's clear here that it's in 18 degrees Aries.

这就是星曜擢升的位置所在，也就是第十九度。

That's where the exaltation is, the nineteenth degree.

我懂了。

Got it.

好的。

Okay.

原来如此，这挺有意思的。

And that that's interesting.

那这个问题终于能有定论了——西方传统里，部分希腊化手稿存在文本差异，而这个基数和序数的混淆问题，或许就是那些差异的根源。

So then it can finally settle that question both in the Western tradition where there's sometimes like manuscript variations and some of the Hellenistic manuscripts and that maybe this is the origin of it, like the cardinal versus ordinal number and some of the confusion.

印度占星传统里也存在一个问题：那里的黄道十二宫是一致的，部分度数也吻合，但也有一部分度数在印度传统中存在细微差异。

There's also an issue in the Indian tradition where of the signs are the same and some of the degrees are the same, but some of them are slightly different in the Indian tradition.

平格里在翻译《阿瓦那本生经》时曾推测，这种差异可能源于手稿传抄中的错误——就像某个数字在抄录时缺失了一位。

And Pingree speculated in his translation of the Avana Jataka that it may have been due to a manuscript error where just like a digit dropped out of the manuscript.

对的。

Mhmm.

我觉得这个猜想在这件事上也能成立，因为这个解释刚好能说明这些度数产生差异的缘由，也能解释清楚为什么会出现独独是那一个度数的情况。

And I think that might prove to be true here because this may actually explain the reason for those degrees and why it would be one particular degree rather than another.

好的。

Alright.

那我们回到正题。

So back to it.

所以他已经确定，太阳当时基本位于最高处，在那个时刻精准地上升到了中天位置。

So he's established the Sun being basically right at the height and rising up exactly to the Midheaven at that point.

随后在这一章节的剩余部分，内容反复提及这些概念：星体的黄道四正位属性、上升的状态，这些都是构建擢升星座相关概念的核心要素。

And then it just keeps repeating for the rest of the chapter these notions of angularity, of rising up as being central to the conceptualization of the exaltations.

有趣的是，在这一点上，这个逻辑是建立在象限宫位的框架下展开的。这意味着在占星学传统中，很早就有人将象限宫位用于判断星座的本位性，这点我们其实已经了解，但它会成为整个擢升概念发展过程中至关重要的核心要素。

Now interestingly, at this point, it does so within the context of essentially quadrant houses, and it implies that the use of quadrant houses for angularity was used very early in the tradition, which is something we already knew, but it would become crucial and very central in the development of this exaltation's concept.

所以这就能追溯到——再说一遍，如果这是最初提出这套理论的人，不管是谁，不管赫尔墨斯到底是何方神圣，留下的原始基础逻辑的一部分，那就说明他们在某种程度上其实是同时使用整宫制和象限宫位的。

So it would go back to Again, if this is part of the original foundational rationale from whoever came up with it first, whoever Hermes was, then it would mean they were using, you know, both whole sign and quadrant houses sort of simultaneously to some extent.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Alright.

之后它就讲到了木星，先给出了一套类似哲学层面的解释，接着就开始讨论火星了。

So then it assigns Jupiter, gives the quasi philosophical rationale, then it moves on to Mars.

有意思的是，当话题转到火星的时候，在开始解释火星相关内容之前，它还专门给出了擢升的定义。

And interestingly, when it switches to Mars, it actually gives a definition of the meaning of exaltation when he starts trying to explain Mars.

里面说，某颗星擢升度数的含义，就是它在一个星座内的某个位置——引用伯内特译本里的内容的话，就是‘它的本性在这个位置得到极致的展现，它所象征的好运也在此达到顶点’。

It says that the meaning of the degree of exaltation is the position in a sign in which, quote unquote, and this is from the Burnett translation, quote, its nature is displayed to an extreme degree and in which its indication of good fortune arrives at its extreme limit.

你翻译的内容和这个大体差不多吗？

Did you translate that more or less the same?

对的。

Yeah.

我的翻译是：行星擢升度数的含义，是它的本性在该星座中展现到极致的位置，也是它带来好运的能力抵达顶峰的位置。

I said the meaning of the degree of a planet's exaltation is the position of the extreme limit of its nature's manifestation in that sign, and it's reaching the utmost of its indication for good fortune.

好的。

Okay.

太棒了。

Perfect.

紧接着它就说道，因此，距离和度数都应当以太阳为基准来推导。

And then it says, therefore, it says, the distances and degrees should be deduced from the Sun.

或者说这就是它从那个节点出发得出的部分结论。

Or that's sort of part of the conclusion it then makes from that point.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为它提到，行星的很多状态都是由某颗行星相对于太阳的位置所决定的。

Because it says many of the conditions of the planets are determined based on a planet's position relative to the Sun.