金星在占星学中的含义与象征

我正在从隐喻的角度来思考这个问题，但我确实能理解肺部如何象征性地与这种对精神的奉献相连——我们每一次呼吸进入肺部时，都能真实地体验到这种对生命馈赠的爱。

I'm kind of running metaphorically with this, but I can kind of see how the lungs might symbolically connect to that, that kind of devotion to spirit which we actually experience with every single breath into the lungs like that love of the gift of life really that comes in through each breath.

是的，完全对。

Yeah, totally.

他经常谈到接收，我也能想到吸气的过程——深吸一口气，将空气深深吸入体内，然后是呼气的过程。

He talks a lot about receiving and I can think also about the idea of how you breathe in, take a deep breath and you receive the air very deeply into your body and then that process of exhaling.

这里或许还关联着吸气与呼气、接收与给予之间的某种联系，而这与金星的一些特质是相通的。

And there's something maybe tied in there as well in terms of this notion of inhale versus exhale and receiving versus giving that's sort of tied in with some of the dynamic of Venus.

这太美了。

That's beautiful.

我喜欢这个说法。

I love that.

这完全契合了接收与给予的概念。

That totally makes sense with the receiving and the giving.

而且我注意到，我们正在谈论呼吸。

And even what I'm noticing, we're talking about breath.

当然，我呼吸得更深入、更自觉了，这种呼吸能让我们平静下来，让我们更接近和谐、轻松与放松的状态，因此当我们通过肺部的呼吸感到更平静时，就会有一种愉悦的体验。

Of course, I'm breathing a little more deeply and consciously and how it calms us and that it brings us more into a place of harmony and one of ease and relaxation and therefore kind of pleasant experience when we feel more calm through that breath in the lungs.

对。

Right.

比如平静的呼吸，我喜欢这个说法。

Like the calming breath, I like that.

或者甚至是充满欲望或其他与金星相关的快速呼吸，呼吸与这些体验也紧密相连。

Or even like the quickening breath of, I don't know, of desire and other things associated with the Venus and the way that breath is intimately tied in with that as well.

她让我屏住了呼吸，就是那种体验。

She took my breath away, that kind of experience.

哦，肺部的呼吸又来了。

Oh, there goes the breath in the lungs.

是的。

Yeah.

或者说‘令人屏息’，比如形容某人令人屏息，或者类似的说法。

Or breathtaking, saying that somebody is breathtaking or something like that.

是的。

Yeah.

金星，无论我们指的是女神还是行星，确实令人屏息。

And Venus, whether we're speaking of the goddess or the planet is definitely breathtaking.

是的。

Yeah.

我之前匆匆提过，为了不偏离主题，既然你已经提到了其他女神，我们有阿佛洛狄忒，但她与美索不达米亚更早的女神有关，比如伊什塔尔和阿南娜，追溯这些神话的渊源非常有趣，不仅因为她们所关联的事物，还因为这些女神在古代世界中曾拥有重要且广泛的崇拜体系。

So I mentioned very quickly before we move on just to touch on because you already mentioned the other goddesses, but it's like we have Aphrodite, but then Aphrodite was tied in with some earlier goddesses from Mesopotamia which were Ishtar and Annona and some of the mythology associated with them which is kind of interesting if you trace it far back and in terms of not just things they're associated with, but also the major religious component of some of these very important and widespread cults in the ancient world.

这可能就是为什么像瓦伦斯这样的古代作者在宗教层面的描述更为突出，而相比之下，一些现代作者则没那么强调。

That may be where some of the religious portion is coming from in ancient authors like Valens that might be more prominent than compared to some later authors in modern times.

是的，这很有道理。

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

你愿意深入探讨一下阿南娜神话中她下到冥界的过程，以及它如何与金星的会合周期相对应吗？

Would you want to explore it all a little the relationship between the myth of Annona, her descent into the underworld and how it maps onto Venus's Synodic Cycle?

当然。

Sure.

这正好可以引出金星的会合周期图，并就此展开讨论。

That would be a great segue for showing the Synodic Cycle diagram and just talking about that.

我们是先看图还是先讲神话？

Should we start with the diagram or start with the myth?

我们先讲神话吧。

Let's start with the myth first.

好的。

Okay.

然后再用图表来说明。

Then we can illustrate it with the diagram.

我从几个不同的来源学到了这些。

So I learned this from a few different sources.

我第一次深入了解阿农娜神话，是通过一本出色的心理学著作《下降到女神》，作者是西尔维娅·布林顿·佩雷拉。

My first kind of deep exposure to the myth of Annona was through an amazing psychological book called Descent to the Goddess by Sylvia Brinton Pereira.

至于阿农娜与金星的联系，我实际上是从占星师舒·亚普的一场精彩讲座中学到了很多。

And then with the connection to Venus, I actually learned a lot of this from a really excellent lecture by the astrologer Shu Yap.

她在四月份的‘觉醒占星学’会议上做过关于这个主题的演讲。

And she gave a talk at the Astrology of Awakening conference in April about this.

所以我想感谢她让我深入了解了这一点。

So I want to credit her for really teaching me about this.

但在苏美尔传统中，金星的会合周期与阿娜娜下降冥界的神话完全对应。

But in the Sumerian tradition, the Synodic Cycle of Venus maps exactly onto the myth of Annona's descent into the underworld.

这个神话很长，我们不必讲全部，但她决定进入冥界去见她的黑暗姐妹埃列什基伽勒。

And it's a long myth so we don't have to tell all of it, but she makes the decision to enter into the underworld to meet her dark sister, Ereshkigal.

而埃列什基伽勒的丈夫最近去世了，这就是她决定下降的原因。

And Ereshkigal's husband has recently passed away so this is why she's making this descent.

阿娜娜被称为天后，有时也被称为天地之母，她来到冥界入口时，身披七种力量的象征——七件衣物、一顶王冠以及其他服饰。

And Annona who is known as the queen of heaven, sometimes she's called the queen of heaven and earth, she comes to the entrance to the underworld adorned in her seven powers which are symbolized by seven pieces of clothing, a crown and a number of other robe and so on.

这七件衣物也与七个脉轮相对应。

And those seven pieces of clothing also correlate with the seven chakras.

在她下降冥界的过程中，共有七道门。

And in her descent into the underworld at each gate, there's seven gates.

那道门的守护者被指示，她必须脱下其中一件物品，从而放弃她自身的某种力量——无论是权威、第三眼的视觉，一直到根脉。

The guardian of that gate has been given the instruction that she has to remove one of these items, therefore giving up this particular power of hers whether it's her authority or with the third eye, her sight all the way down to the root.

于是，她在每一扇门处都被剥去一件衣物，直到最终赤身裸体、孤身一人抵达冥界。

And so each of these gates she stripped down until she arrives naked and alone in the underworld.

在那里，她遇到了一群法官以及她的姐姐埃雷什基加尔，他们判定她有罪。

And here she encounters a panel of judges as well as Arash Kigal, her sister, and they deem her to be guilty.

她因这罪行所受的惩罚是被杀死并悬挂在肉钩上，极为血腥直接。

Her punishment for this guilt is to be killed and hung on a meat hook, very visceral.

因此，她在上界留下指示：如果她未能在特定时间内返回，就让她的一个仆人前来寻找她。

And so she left instructions in the upper world if she didn't come back within a certain period of time for one of her servants to come look for her.

于是，这名仆人四处寻求其他神祇的帮助，但长时间都找不到任何人愿意伸出援手。

And so, this servant goes seeking help from the other deities for a long time can't find anyone to help.

最终，她转向了恩基——因南娜的祖父，他提供了复活药剂，交给两只足够小、能悄然潜入冥界的昆虫。

Finally, turns to Enki who is Inanna's grandfather who offers help giving, a resurrecting potion to, two little insects who are small enough to enter into the underworld unseen.

这与冥界有着深刻的联系，当然也对应着金星的不可见阶段。

And there's a whole connection with the underworld and of course the invisible phase of Venus.

于是他们来到地下世界，这时埃reshkigal正在经历分娩的阵痛。

And so they come down and when they arrive in the underworld, a reshkigal is in labor pains.

而在这些痛苦中，她身边没有一个人。

And in these pains, there's no one with her.

于是这两个小生物陪伴在她身边，为她提供支持，直到她生下孩子，度过这段痛苦。

And so these two little beings sit with her, they hold space for her until she has given birth and moved through this pain.

她被他们的关注和关怀深深打动，于是说：我能做些什么？

And she's so touched by their attention and their care that she says, What can I do?

我能回报你们什么？

What can I offer in return?

她从未被这样照顾过。

She's never been cared for in this way.

他们说：我们其实是为伊南娜而来的。

And they say, We're actually here for Annona.

我们能带她回去吗？

Can we take her back up?

于是，阿瑞什基加尔同意了。

And so, Areshkigal agrees.

于是，他们给她滴下了这种药水，每一天她在冥界或隐形阶段时就滴一滴。

And so, they give her drops of this potion, one for each of the days that she is in the underworld or in her invisible phase.

她因此重生，而这一重生的时刻，恰好与金星在卡西米点上与太阳完全合相的时刻一致。

And she's reborn And that rebirth, that moment aligns with when Venus is exactly conjunct the Sun at that Kasimi point.

于是她重生了，并能够返回。

And so then she's reborn and she's able to return.

但她与奥拉吉卡格尔达成了一项协议：她必须派一个人代替她下去。

But there's an agreement that she makes with Oraj Kagal that she has to send someone in her place.

于是，当她回到家时，感受到一种沉重的责任感。

And so when she comes home, she's feeling this kind of weight and responsibility.

我该派谁代替我下去冥界呢？

Who am I going to send down into the underworld in my place?

当她回到家时，她看到她的丈夫，而她的丈夫并没有因她的缺席而哀悼或想念她。

And when she comes home, she sees her husband and her husband has not been mourning her absence, missing her.

他出去拈花惹草，而她却想：他？

He's off having affairs and flirtations and she's like, Him?

他才是那个要代替我下到冥界的人。

He's the one going down into the underworld in my place.

这又是金星与火星的另一组对应——她的丈夫就是火星，因此现在轮到他下到冥界代替她了。

And yet another pairing of Venus and Mars, her husband is Mars and so now it's time for his descent into the underworld to take her place.

所以，当金星处于晨星阶段时，这正是伊南娜下到冥界的时间。

And so the phases how they align when Venus is in the morning star phase, that is the period of Inanna's descent into the underworld.

每当金星与黎明天空中渐亏的残月相合，每一次合相都代表通往冥界的七道门之一，而她正逐一剥离自己的力量与装饰。

And each conjunction of Venus to the waning Moon, the waning crescent Moon in the morning sky, each conjunction is one of those seven gates leading down into the underworld where she's stripping off her powers and her adornments.

而合日（上合）则是她待在冥界、或隐藏在太阳背后五十天、处于隐形状态的时期。

And then the superior conjunction is when the Let's see, the superior conjunction I believe is the phase when she spends fifty days in the underworld or fifty days behind the Sun or hidden invisible.

当她从冥界出来时，正好在合相时刻重生，而她从冥界上升的过程，则是她化身为昏星的时刻。

And then once she comes out of the underworld, she's reborn at the exact conjunction and then her ascent out of the underworld is when she becomes the evening star.

因此，每一次金星与渐盈之月的合相，都象征着她重新获得一项装饰或一项力量。

And so each of those conjunctions now to the waxing Moon is her gaining back each of her adornments or each of her powers.

再次，月球与金星的合相象征着这些门。

Again, the Moon Venus conjunction symbolizes the gates.

我真的很想向徐亚致敬，感谢她分享这个故事和这种对应关系，因为她的相关研究价值非凡。

Again, I really want to give credit to Xu Yap for that story and that mapping because her research on that is invaluable.

我发现这个故事如此引人入胜，它虽然是一个神话，却能帮助我们清晰地记住这些天体模式是如何运作的，以及所有天象如何精准地同步。

And I just found that story to be so compelling and how it's a myth, but it also really allows you to remember how these patterns work, these celestial patterns work and how all the alignments are timed.

是的。

Yeah.

令人惊叹的是，一些古代神话竟然与不同行星的天文特性紧密相连，被设计用来传递或承载这些知识，并以各种方式传承下去。

It's really amazing how some of the ancient myths were tied into astronomical properties of different planets and were set up to evoke or to carry some of that knowledge and to sort of pass it on in different ways.

在这个例子中，我们讨论的是金星的天文相位，由于它与太阳的关系，金星确实会经历不同的相位：当它与太阳的距离足够远时，会在清晨升起，成为一颗明亮闪烁的小星星，在一年中的不同时间，比太阳早一两个小时出现。

In this instance, talking about the astronomical phases of Venus and how due to its relationship with the Sun, it does have these different phases where either it emerges when it gets enough distance from the Sun in the morning and you see it as a bright little twinkling star that rises an hour or two before the Sun does during different parts of the year.

或者，金星在傍晚星阶段则出现在日落后不久，像一颗明亮的白色闪烁小星，在太阳落山后持续一两个小时可见。

Or alternatively, Venus in its evening star phase appears just after sunset and appears as this bright little white twinkling star for like an hour or two just after the Sun goes down.

是的。

Yeah.

顺便说一下，整个周期，即会合周期，是584天。

And that whole cycle, by the way, Synodic Cycle is five eighty four days.

因此，金星在晨星阶段持续263天，也就是九个月，然后在一次合相中隐形50天。

And so Venus spends two sixty three days or nine months in the morning star phase and then fifty days invisible in one of those conjunctions.

我认为这是上合相。

I think it's the superior conjunction.

这说得通，因为金星会经过太阳背后。

That makes sense because Venus would be passing behind the Sun.

然后作为昏星又持续263天，也就是九个月，直到下合相，下合相非常短暂，只有8天，这就是完整的周期。

And then the two sixty three days or nine months as the evening star before the inferior conjunction which is very short, it's only eight days and that's the full cycle.

对。

Right.

那么总共有多少天呢？

So what was the full number of days?

从一次与太阳的合相到下一次合相，这就是会合周期。

And that's from one conjunction with the Sun to another, that's the Synodic Cycle.

那是多少天？

How many days is that?

五百八十四天是一个完整的周期。

Five hundred and eighty four is the full cycle.

是的。

Yeah.

明白了。

Got it.

就移动迅速的行星而言，我们有月亮，它非常快，大约一个月就能绕黄道一周。

In terms of the swift moving planets, we have the Moon that's extremely fast and it only goes around the entire zodiac in what like a month.

然后是水星，作为第二快的行星。

And then we have Mercury as the next fastest planet.

再之后是金星。

And then after that we have Venus.

对。

Yes.

金星绕太阳公转的周期是225天，但会合周期是584天，因为这考虑了我们在地球上相对于太阳和金星的位置。

And I should differentiate Venus's orbit around the Sun is two twenty five days, but the Synodic Cycle is five eighty four because that's taking into account our relative position on the Earth in relationship to the Sun and Venus.

所以这584天，我想应该是从上合到上合的时间。

And so that five eighty four days, I guess that would be from superior conjunction to superior conjunction.

实际上，在这之间还存在下合。

So there's actually the inferior conjunction in between.

明白了。

Got it.

对。

Right.

因为根据我们相对于金星的位置不同，由于金星是最内层的行星，它与太阳的合相可能发生在太阳靠近我们的一侧，也可能发生在太阳远离我们的一侧。

Because due to what side of Venus that we're on, since Venus is the last inner planet, the conjunction with the Sun can take place either on the closer side of the Sun from us or it can take place on the further side of the Sun from us.

实际上，让我展示一张图，这样能更好地说明这一点，因为行星的排列顺序是太阳位于太阳系中心，然后是水星，接着是金星，然后才是地球。

Actually, let me show a diagram that'll do a better job of illustrating that just because of the sequence of the planets where you have the Sun at the center of the solar system and then you have Mercury and then you have Venus and then you have Earth.

因此，从地球上的视角来看，太阳与金星的合相可能发生在靠近地球的一侧，也可能发生在太阳的另一侧。

So a conjunction between the Sun and Venus from our perspective on Earth can either take place on the closer side to Earth or it can take place on the opposite side of the Sun basically.

是的

Yeah.

当金星位于太阳的另一侧时，那就是所谓的上合，神话中安诺娜在地下世界度过的那五十天就是这个时候。

And when it's on the opposite side of the Sun, that superior conjunction that mythically is when Annona is in the underworld for those fifty days.

因此，这实际上是神话的核心部分。

And so that's really the kind of core part of the myth.

这个图示或图像也非常有帮助，因为它让我们可以想象自己站在地球上，从我们的视角来看，水星和金星永远不会离太阳太远。

And this diagram or this image is really helpful too because we can see picture ourselves there on the Earth that Mercury and Venus from our perspective are never gonna get that far from the Sun.

因此，你永远不会看到太阳与水星形成对冲，或者太阳与水星形成刑相这样的情况。

And so, you're never going to get a Sun opposition or a Sun Mercury square or something like that.

从我们的视角来看，它们不可能离得那么远。

They can't get out that far from our perspective.

对。

Right.

金星在黄道上实际上永远不会离太阳超过48度，无论它是顺行还是逆行。

Venus actually never gets more than 48 degrees away from the Sun in the zodiac before it turns retrograde or direct.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，我们在水星和金星的关系中也能看到这一点。

And therefore we see that in relationship to Mercury and Venus as well.

它们之间的角度永远不会超过六分相。

They're never going to get more than a sextile apart.

它们始终处于和谐的关系中。

They're always going to be in a harmonious relationship.

它们不可能形成困难的角度。

They can't be at a hard angle to each other.

对。

Right.

是的，这有很多有趣的含义。

Yeah, there's a lot of interesting implications.

当然，这在一定程度上解释了为什么 domicile（主星）体系中，金星和水星的主星位置紧邻太阳和月亮。

And of course, that's partially where the domicile scheme comes from where the domiciles of Venus and Mercury basically are adjacent to the Sun and the Moon basically.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

All right.

很好。

Good.

嗯，我觉得我们已经讲了很多基础内容，虽然也提到了一些其他东西，比如合周期，但也许我们可以把关于金星在这些连续周期中形成的八年周期和五角星图案的内容留到以后再讨论。

Well, I think we're getting a lot of good basics and there's some other stuff we're sort of mentioning and passing about Synodic cycles, but maybe we can save that for later in terms of like the eight year cycle and the pentagram of Venus that it makes around the zodiac during the course of those successive cycles.

听起来不错。

Sounds good.

是的，我们可以回头再谈这些。

Yeah, we can come back to them.

好的，太好了。

Okay, cool.

那我来调出我们下一段文字吧，这段来自瓦伦斯之后几个世纪的九世纪占星家阿布·马沙尔，他用阿拉伯语写成的这部伟大的占星学入门著作，大概写于九世纪中叶的巴格达。

Well, let me pull up our next passage then which comes from the We're just going to jump forward from Valens several centuries to the ninth century astrologer Abu Ma'shar and his great introduction to astrology that was written in Arabic probably in Baghdad sometime around the middle of the ninth century.

所以大约是八月左右吧。

So around, let's say like August or something like that.

这段文字来自本杰明·戴克斯在过去一年刚刚完成的新译本，他从阿拉伯语重新翻译了这部作品。

This comes from the new translation that just came out in the past year from Benjamin Dykes who retranslated the text from Arabic.

书名是《阿布·马沙尔：星象判断术导论》。

It's titled Abu Ma'shar, The Great Introduction to the Science of the Judgments of the Stars.

接下来我来读一段本的译文，或者你来读吗？

So here's a little passage I'm going to read from Ben's translation or actually do you want to read it?

也许我们应该轮流读。

Maybe we should like trade off.

我来读这一小段。

Can read that one minute.

我觉得我可以。

Think I can.

我们再往下看，这一页后面还有一点内容。

And let's see, it just goes on to the next page a little bit.

是的。

Yeah.

就是左边这部分，还有右边页面顶部的那一段。

So it's just like the left side and then just the top paragraph in the right page.

完美。

Perfect.

好的。

All right.

至于金星，它的性质是凉爽、湿润、黏液质，温和，是一颗吉星。

As for Venus, her nature is cooling, wet, phlegmatic, temperate, a a fortune.

她代表女性、母亲、年幼的姐妹、洁净、服饰、饰品、金银、对亲密朋友的温婉、自负、虚荣、高傲、夸耀、对财富与娱乐的热爱、笑声、装饰、喜悦、欢愉、舞蹈、吹奏号角、弹奏乌德琴、婚礼、香水及芬芳之物、谱写旋律时的柔和、玩双陆棋和象棋、懒散、放纵自我、沉溺于恶行、滑稽表演、与男子和儿童从事淫乱行为，以及各种男女通奸、男女歌手或演奏各种乐器者，还有频繁发誓、说谎、饮酒、蜂蜜、饮用甘甜的醉人饮品、以各种方式发生性关系，包括肛交和女同性恋。

She indicates women, the mother, younger sisters, cleanliness, clothing, ornaments, gold and silver, graciousness towards close friends, conceit, vanity, haughtiness, boasting, the love of wealth and entertainment, laughter, adornment, joy, delight, dancing, playing horns, plucking the strings of the oud, weddings, perfume and good smelling things, gentleness in composing melodies, playing backgammon and chess, idleness, casting of restraint, going too far in what is bad, buffoonery, occupying oneself with men and children in fornication, and every male or female fornication or male and female singer or one playing types of instruments and much swearing of oaths and lying, wine, honey, drinking sweet intoxicants, having sex in various ways, as well as intercourse in the rear and lesbianism.

她还象征对孩子的爱、对人的爱与关怀、对每个人的平和、宽容、慷慨、仁慈、自由、良好的品格、美丽与俊朗、讨好、接纳、光明、辉煌、言语的悦耳、女性特质、调情、激情、嘲讽、祝愿健康、身体强健，但灵魂虚弱、体态丰腴、对一切事物充满渴望、对一切感到喜悦、对一切提出要求、热切追求。

And she indicates a love for children and a love of people and showing love towards them, tranquility towards everyone, tolerance, generosity, kindliness, liberality, freedom, a good character, beauty and handsomeness, ingratiation, reception, brightness, splendor, pleasantness of speech, the feminine, flirtation, passion, ridicule, wishing good health, strength of the body, but weakness of the soul, much flesh in bodies, an abundance of craving for everything, joy in everything, making demands for everything, being eager for it.

她还象征各种洁净而令人钦佩的手工艺与技艺，如编织花环并装饰、佩戴花冠、染色与染匠、缝纫、礼拜场所、美德、恪守宗教、履行祈祷、公正、公平、秤与度量、热爱市场并常驻其中、经商与销售芬芳之物。

And she indicates different types of clean, admirable crafts and works, stringing garlands and decorating them, wearing crowns, dyes and dyers, sewing, houses of worship, virtue, adhering to religion, performing devotions, justice, fairness, scales and measuring, a love of markets and being in them, business and selling good smelling things.

不错。

Nice.

太棒了。

That's fantastic.

是的。

Yeah.

这就是我们九世纪的朋友阿布·马沙尔。

So that is our friend Abu Ma'shar from the ninth century.

现在，我们突然进入了完全不同的占星文化背景——我们从二世纪希腊罗马社会中以阿佛洛狄忒为代表的金星，跳到了九世纪中期、新建立的伊斯兰帝国核心地带巴格达。

Now all of a sudden we're talking about a much different cultural context for astrology where we've jumped from second century Greco Roman society where Venus is Aphrodite and now we're in the middle of the ninth century in the heart of Baghdad in the newly established Islamic empire.

我认为阿布·马沙尔本人最初是一位宗教学者，后来与哲学家肯迪展开辩论，当时他攻击肯迪信仰占星术，但肯迪 somehow 成功地让他自己去研究占星术，结果阿布·马沙尔成了中世纪及之后最著名的占星家之一。

And Abu Ma'shar himself I think was originally a religious scholar who got into a debate with a philosopher al Kindi who he was attacking for believing in astrology and al Kindi somehow was successful in getting him to look into it himself and then Abu Ma'shar became one of the most famous astrologers of the medieval and subsequent periods.

但我认为，在这段文本中，你确实能感受到一些文化视角的差异，以及金星在占星学上的描述方式——既包括九世纪伊斯兰或阿拉伯社会认为积极的事物，也包括一些被视为消极的事物。

But you do see some of that coming through I think in a little bit in the text in terms of different cultural perspectives and in terms of some of the ways that Venus is described astrologically both in terms of some positive things and what is viewed as positive in like ninth century Islamic or Arabic society versus some of the things that are viewed as negative.

与瓦伦斯的文本相比，这个文本中一个更明显的有趣之处在于，阿布·马沙尔确实提到了一些他将金星与之关联的负面事物。

That's actually an interesting component that comes through a little bit more in this text than I think compared to Valens is that Abu Ma'shar does mention some things that he associates or are negative things that he's associating with Venus.

对。

Right.

这里明显更强烈地体现出：这是正面的表现，那是负面的表现。

There's much more of a sense of this is a good expression, this is a negative expression.

你能感受到一种评判——这个是评判，那个也是评判。

You do get a little bit of a sense of there's a judgment about this, there's a judgment about that.

但有时候这些内容紧挨着出现，你会想：等等，你到底觉得这是坏事还是好事？

Sometimes they're right next to each other though, so you're like, Wait, do you think that's a bad thing or do you think that's a good thing?

那我们

And what would we

现在想想这一点

think now about that

作为

as

是好事还是问题？

being a good thing or being a problem?

对。

Right.

有时候，好事和坏事是相对的。

And sometimes it's like good things contrast with bad things.

比如仁慈、密友，然后就是傲慢、虚荣、高傲、吹嘘、对财富的热爱，以及对娱乐的沉迷，接着又转回正面描述，开始提到笑声、装饰、喜悦。

It's like graciousness, close friends, then it's like conceit, vanity, haughtiness, boasting, the love of wealth, but also of entertainment, and then it switches to positive things again and starts saying laughter, adornment, joy.

这里有这种。

There's this.

相比瓦伦斯，这里显得稍微更细致一些，因为它确实承认了金星的一些潜在负面影响——某些事情在特定语境下可能是正面的，但也可能转向负面。

It's almost a little bit more nuanced here than it was in Valens because it is acknowledging some of the potentially the downsides of Venus when certain things that maybe in a certain context are positive but could turn negative.

例如，虚荣或自负。

For example, vanity or conceit.

假设金星确实代表美以及与美相关的事物，这本身并无不妥，但在某些情境下，如果它演变为虚荣、自负或类似的东西，就可能变得消极。

Let's say Venus does represent beauty and things related to beauty and that can be fine in and of itself, but then in a certain context it could be negative if it turns into vanity or conceit or something like that.

当然。

Definitely.

是的，我喜欢你所说的，这是一种更加细致的视角，其中包含更多细节。

Yeah, you can I love what you said that it is a bit more of a nuanced perspective and there's more just detail in it too?

而在瓦伦斯那里，只谈婚姻。

Whereas in Valens, have marriage.

而在这里，我们涉及了各种性行为和关系，这表明金星掌管着所有这些事物。

Here we have all kinds of sexual acts and dynamics and that it's a recognition that Venus rules all of these things.

因此，无论当时的文化如何看待这些，我们都应认识到金星存在于这一切之中。

So we can kind of whatever the cultural perspective on that might have been just a recognition of Venus is here, Venus is present in all of this.

对。

Yeah.

我认为这一点很重要，因为我在阅读关于阿佛洛狄忒的维基百科条目时注意到，瓦伦斯遗漏了一些与这位女神相关的特质。

And I think that's important because one of the things I was noticing when I was reading the Wikipedia entry for even Aphrodite where there were some things that Valens left out that were associated with a goddess.

比如说，阿佛洛狄忒是古希腊神话中掌管爱情、美丽、愉悦、激情和繁衍的女神。

So it's like saying Aphrodite is an ancient Greek goddess associated with love, beauty, pleasure, passion and procreation.

这些特质中有些在维纳斯身上也有体现，但条目中还提到，她同时也是妓女的守护女神。

So it's like some of those things are in Venus, but it also mentions at one point it says she was also the patron goddess of prostitutes.

这一点在某些神话中表现得很明显，但在瓦伦斯的著作中却不那么清晰；而与维纳斯相关的某些内容确实与性、性欲以及各种形式的体现有关，包括性工作者或其他与这些表现相关的人。

And that's something that comes through in some of the mythology that isn't as clear in Valens, but some of the things that related to Venus was connected with sex and sexuality and all different manifestations of that in many different ways including sex workers or other people that were connected with different manifestations of that.

是的。

Yeah.

不，这很有道理。

No, that makes a lot of sense.

在阿布·马沙尔的著作中，这一点更加清晰；如果我们回头看看瓦伦斯，他只是笼统地说维纳斯代表婚姻，而婚姻中可以发生各种事情，但那种与性、愉悦和身体享乐的直接联系却被弱化了。

And it is so much clearer coming through in Abu Ma'shar's writing that again, if we look back at Valens, so much gets wrapped up and just saying, Well, Venus is marriage and all kinds of things can unfold in a marriage, but that particular connection to the sexual, to pleasure and bodily pleasure and so on.

我觉得有趣的是，他提到了‘身体强大，灵魂虚弱’这一点。

I thought it was interesting this strength of the body, but weakness of the soul.

那里提出的这种二元对立很有意思。

That was an interesting kind of dichotomy that's brought up there.

我想，当金星处于良好位置时，身体的力量可能体现出来，但灵魂的虚弱也可能同时存在。

And just in what context I guess strength of the body would be in a good placement of Venus, but weakness of the soul could be present in that.

是的。

Yeah.

也许古代占星术中存在一种整体的张力，我正在准备一集关于赫尔墨斯主义的节目，这一直是我想做的，可能下个月或下下个月就会做。

Maybe there's a whole tension in ancient astrology that I'm working on an episode on Hermeticism that I've been wanting to do for a while and I'll probably do it in the next month or two.

但赫尔墨斯文本和诺斯替文本中一个重要的张力，就是身体与精神之间的对立，将身体和物质化身视为本质上消极、黑暗的东西，认为我们的灵魂被困在肉体中，而灵魂来自别处，渴望逃离回非尘世的领域。

But one of the great tensions in Hermetic texts and Gnostic texts in the ancient world was this tension between the body versus the spirit and viewing the body and the physical incarnation as something that's fundamentally negative and dark and that our spirit is trapped here in the physical body and our spirit is something from somewhere else that wants to escape back into the non earthly realms.

我认为，这种观点有时会体现在一些传统占星文本中，即承认金星与身体、物质事物和肉体愉悦的关联，并将其视为生命的一种属性。

And this sometimes comes through I think in some traditional astrological texts as associating and acknowledging Venus's association with the body and physical things and physical pleasures and that being like a property of life.

但从宗教或神学的角度来看，这种关联有时被视为负面的，因为沉迷于肉体愉悦被认为会分散你对宗教实践、智力追求或其他事物的注意力。

But sometimes from a religious or theological standpoint, that's viewed negatively because being attached to physical pleasures is something that's supposed to They would view it as like distract you either from your religious practices or from intellectual pursuits or what have you.

在这个段落中，有趣的是，身体的力量与灵魂的虚弱并存，但同时又存在另一种与宗教信仰的联系，比如进行宗教仪式。

And in this same passage, it's interesting then that there can be that strength of the body but weakness of the soul, but then there's this other connection to, adhering to religion, for example, performing devotions.

这又回到了我们之前讨论的内容，比如进行宗教仪式。

And that comes back to what we were talking about before too, like performing devotions.

甚至‘虔诚’这个词本身就带有爱、心灵等元素，但这种虔诚是针对神明、上帝、神圣或神圣事物的。

Even the word devotion really carries that element of love, the heart and so on, but it's a devotion to the gods or to God or the divine or the sacred.

是的。

Yeah.

这几乎类似于对伴侣或配偶的忠诚与相反情况之间的区别。

It's almost kind of similar to the distinction between devotion to one's partner or one's spouse versus the opposite.

我不禁想，当谈到虔诚以及诸如忠诚之类的事情时，这是否就是其中的联系所在。

And I wonder if that's part of the connection there when it's talking about devotion and things like fidelity, for example.

对。

Right.

我们还可以从各种方式看到金星的体现，也许这就是参与性的一面——我们该如何选择去回应金星在我们生活中所展现的方式呢？

And just all the ways that we can see Venus expressed and maybe this is the participatory element or that how do we choose to engage with how Venus is coming through in our lives?

它是会走向虔诚的方向，还是会走向缺乏信仰或只有欲望而无爱的方向？

Is it gonna go in this devotional direction or is it gonna go more in a faithless or lust without love kind of direction?

而当涉及到操纵或撒谎时，这些就构成了更成问题的方面，这些在那段文字中被提到了，但它们是不同的事情。

And the more problematic sides of that when it comes to manipulation or lying which are different things that were mentioned in that passage.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

我们再看看还有什么。

Let's see what else.

公平与正义，这些内容很有趣，尤其是因为它在提到进行虔诚仪式之后紧接着提到了这些。

Fairness, justice, some of that is interesting especially in terms of It mentions those actually in a line just after performing devotions.

它说的是：进行虔诚仪式、正义、公平、天平与衡量，以及对市场和参与市场的热爱。

It's like performing devotions, justice, fairness, scales and measuring, a love of markets and being in them.

我觉得这很有趣，因为金星与天秤座相关联，而天秤座正是天平的象征，或许这其中存在某种联系。

And I thought that was interesting in terms of Venus's association with Libra, which is literally the sign of the scales and perhaps some connection there.

当然。

Definitely.

哪个是先影响哪个的？

Which is informing which first?

是金星与公正、公平的关系，还是天秤座与它们的关系？

Is it Venus' relationship to justice fairness or is it Libra's relationship to that?

金星是主宰者，这说得通。

It makes sense that Venus would be the ruler.

对。

Right.

好的。

All right.

我们再看看还有什么。

Let's see what else do we have.

慷慨是个不错的点。

Generosity is a good one.

它提到了美和英俊。

It mentions beauty and handsomeness.

其中一个有趣的地方。

One of the interesting things.

如果金星被认为象征美，那么根据一些非常传统的文本和描述，这种象征有时会被应用为：一个人出生图中金星的位置，往往就是他们在生活中以某种方式发现美或接触‘美’这一概念的地方。

If Venus is said to signify beauty, one of the ways that that sometimes gets applied going back to very basically traditional texts and delineations is they would say that sometimes the placement of Venus in a birth chart is where a person will find beauty in some way or encounter the concept of beauty in their life in some way.

我认为这正是某些描述背后的深层含义，比如托勒密对金星位于第一宫的描述——第一宫代表一个人的肉体和外貌，有时会进一步说明，如果金星位于上升点或类似位置，这个人就会显得外貌美丽、有吸引力或格外出众。

And I think that's what's underlying some of the delineations, for example, that I think Ptolemy gives of Venus in the first house, which is said to signify a person's physical body and appearance, they would sometimes delineate that as well the person then will be physically beautiful or physically attractive or striking in some way if they have Venus on the Ascendant or something like that.

确实如此。

Definitely.

我注意到，那些金星位于上升点的人，他们的美、他们那种金星式的特质，往往是别人最先注意到的部分，这非常符合上升点的含义，但甚至可能掩盖了他人对他们其他方面的认知。

Something I've actually noticed with people who have Venus on the Ascendant is that their beauty, their kind of Venusian way of being is the first thing that people often notice about them which very much fits the Ascendant, but it even can kind of obscure seeing other parts of who they are.

这就像太阳升起时，我们只能看到地平线上的太阳。

And it's similar to when the Sun is rising, all we can see is the Sun on the horizon.

或者像我们之前讨论金星时那样，当你在夜空中看到地平线上的金星时，其他一切似乎都黯然失色。

Or with our discussion of Venus earlier, when you see Venus there on the horizon and it's dark out, everything else kind of fades away.

我注意到，对于那些金星位于上升点的人，你就会忍不住想：哇，这就是金星。

And that quality I have noticed with individuals who have Venus at the Ascendant, you're just kind of like, Wow, here's Venus.

维纳斯走进了房间。

Venus has walked into the room.

我认为，对于那些有这种星盘配置的人来说，这可能是一个痛苦的方面——他们的其他星盘特质或真实的自我往往得不到足够的关注。

And I think this can be a kind of painful side of that for individuals who have that placement is sometimes the rest of their chart or the rest of who they are doesn't get seen as much.

他们会说：等等，我还有很多其他的方面。

They're like, Wait, I'm all these other things too.

我的意思是，这一点也可以适用于任何位于上升点的行星。

I mean, that can be applied to any planet on the Ascendant.

但特别以维纳斯为例，当一个人的美貌掩盖了他们的智慧、善良，或对骑马、射箭等其他兴趣时，他们完整的自我就未必能被看见。

But just thinking of it particularly with Venus where someone's beauty might obscure their intelligence or their kindness or their interest in horseback riding or archery or whatever it is that the wholeness of who they are isn't always seen.

是的，这很有道理，尤其是在普遍观念中，上升点代表一个人初次亮相时给人的印象，而太阳星座、月亮星座则更多反映一个人内在或情感上的本质，水星落点则关乎他们的沟通方式和思维模式等等。

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense especially in terms of the common idea that the Ascendant is like what a person sees in their first appearance of you or what first appearances are versus let's say somebody's Sun sign or Moon sign representing more of who they are internally or emotionally or their Mercury placement and how they communicate and think and things like that.

有时，在肤浅的人际关系中，人们很容易只关注第一印象。

Sometimes things can get wrapped up especially in terms of superficial relationships with just first appearances.

确实如此。

Definitely.

是的。

Yeah.

此外，在讨论金星与美时，我特别感兴趣的一点是，当观察其他行星与金星的相位（即 alignments）时，人们会发现什么才是美的，以及他们如何根据金星与土星、天王星、海王星等的相位来表达自己独特的美感——这不仅影响外在的审美风格，也影响装饰方式。

And also with this discussion of Venus and beauty, one thing that I really find interesting when it comes to looking at planetary aspects, so alignments of other planets with Venus is what individuals find beautiful and how they carry express their individual beauty depending on whether they have Venus in alignment with Saturn or Uranus or Neptune or how much that changes the aesthetic stylistic taste and expression both physically but also in terms of adornment.

是的。

Yeah.

那什么是审美呢？

What are the aesthetic?

因为每个人对美的感受都极其主观，比如一个人觉得什么是美的，或者什么是具有审美吸引力的——就像不同的艺术家或艺术作品，作为观者，你可能会在博物馆里特别喜欢某位艺术家的绘画风格，却不喜欢另一位艺术家的风格。

Because everybody has such a subjective thing like what a person finds beauty in or what a person finds to be aesthetically appealing like different artists or artwork as a observer where you might go to a museum and you might really like a certain artist's style of painting versus you might not like another artist's style of painting.

所以这归结为一种主观观念：一个人觉得什么有吸引力，而这与我认为的个人金星在星盘中的位置密切相关，以不同方式描述了什么能吸引他们，从更广泛的意义上来说。

So it comes down to that subjective notion of what a person finds appealing and that's very much tied in with I think position of a person's Venus and their birth chart in different ways in terms of describing what appeals to them in some broader sense.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

我确实常常如此，当我发现某样东西很美，或被某种艺术形式或风格吸引时，往往是因为它反映了我金星相位的特质。

I'm certainly guilty of that where I'll find something beautiful or be drawn to a particular art form or style if it reflects more what my Venus aspects are.

作为一个金星海王星的人，我特别被一种更空灵的美学风格所吸引，比如新艺术风格。

And so as someone who has Venus Neptune, I'm really drawn to kind of a more ethereal aesthetic or something like Art Nouveau.

但作为一个金星土星的人，我也非常欣赏那种更古典、简洁的形式，那种极简的美学；然而这又与我金星与天王星的相位相矛盾，因为天王星喜欢不寻常、出人意料的东西，或者有些人认为是古怪或独特的风格。

But then as a Venus Saturn person, I also really appreciate kind of more classical form simplicity, kind of the paired down aesthetic, but then that's also contradicted because I have Venus with Uranus and that likes the unusual or the unexpected or what some might find eccentric or unique.

能够看到他人身上这些不同的美学表达方式，对我来说非常迷人。

Just being able to see those different kinds of aesthetic expressions in others is so fascinating to me.

没错，当然。

Right, For sure.

不仅体现在人们喜欢什么，有时甚至通过研究不同艺术家的星盘，也能看到他们的金星位置如何以不同方式描述其艺术风格，以及他们最终创造出的作品，还有他们如何将自己对美的主观概念带入世界。

As well as in terms of both what people like and also sometimes even just studying the charts of different artists and seeing how their Venus placements might describe in different ways their art styles and what they end up creating or the way in which they manifest and bring concepts of beauty into the world in terms of what their subjective conceptualization of beauty is.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

是的，当谈到音乐时，我觉得这特别有趣。

Yeah, I find this really fascinating when it comes to music.

我的意思是，所有艺术形式都是如此，但音乐特别适合教学，因为你只要播放一首歌，人们就能立刻感受到一种原型般的本质。

I mean, all of the arts, but music is great for teaching because you can play a song and someone can immediately get an archetypal kind of essence.

有太多杰出的歌曲是关于心碎的。

And there are so many extraordinary songs about heartbreak.

我认为大多数人一生中都会经历心碎，而金星与土星的关联恰恰体现了心碎与苦涩甜蜜的交织。

And most people I think go through heartbreak in some time of life or other, but there's connection between Venus Saturn and kind of the heartbreak or the heartache and the bitter sweetness of that.

比如阿黛尔，她出生时金星与土星相合，她那首《Someone Like You》就是在分手后写成的。

And I think of a song by Adele for example who's born with Venus Saturn and her song Someone Like You which she wrote right after a breakup.

如果你仔细听这首歌，每一句歌词都深深契合金星与土星的原型特质，以及其中所有的土星式否定。

If you listen to that song, every single line is just resonating with Venus Saturn archetypal qualities and all the Saturnian negations in it.

但有一句歌词特别贴切：'有时爱能持久，有时却只带来伤痛'，这正是金星与土星体验的写照。

But there's this line, sometimes it lasts in love and sometimes it hurts instead and how much that's the Venus Saturn experience.

或者，如果我们想到珍妮丝·乔普林的《Take Another Little Piece of My Heart》，这也是另一种心碎的表现。

Or another kind of heartbreak if we think of Janus Joplin's Take Another Little Piece of My Heart.

她出生时金星与冥王星相合，因此这种痛苦和心碎带有更原始、更强烈的感官冲击，她唱道：'拿走我心脏的一小部分。'

Now she's born with Venus Pluto and so there's more of that kind of raw visceral intensity to that kind of pain and heartbreak where she's saying like, Take a piece of my heart.

再对比乔尼·米切尔或杰夫·巴克利，他们出生时金星与海王星相合，两人都拥有极其优美、如天使般的嗓音。

And then compare that to Joni Mitchell or Jeff Buckley both born with Venus Neptune and how they both have these just exquisite angelic voices.

你可以在乔尼·米切尔的任何一首歌中听到，仿佛天使在歌唱。

And you can hear it in any of Joni Mitchell songs where it's like an angel is singing.

杰夫·巴克利尤其如此，他翻唱的《哈利路亚》是在向神、向神圣致敬，那声音宛如天使般。

Jeff Buckley especially his cover of Hallelujah which is singing to God, to the divine, to the sacred and this angelic voice.

这首歌的创作者莱昂纳德·科恩，出生时也拥有金星与海王星的相位。

The person who wrote that song Leonard Cohen was born with Venus Neptune also.

无论如何，我可以继续探讨这些金星的不同组合，看看它们如何通过音乐、歌词、嗓音音色以及音乐风格和质感表现出来，一切都在其中。

Anyway, I could keep going down that path, thinking about those different combinations with Venus and how it gets expressed through music, through lyrics, through vocal tone and musical quality and style, it's all there.

但核心是什么？

But what's at the core?

金星。

Venus.

没错。

Right.

当然。

Definitely.

每当想到这个话题时，我有时会想到小野洋子，她的金星与土星在水瓶座第五宫合相，并且作为她夜盘上升星座的守护星。她表达艺术品味的方式，对某些人来说几乎显得不和谐，或与人们对美与和谐的常规认知截然不同。

Somebody I sometimes think about when it comes to this topic is Yoko Ono who has a Venus Saturn conjunction in Aquarius in the fifth house as the ruler of her Ascendant actually in a night chart and just the way that she expresses her artistic tastes in a way that it's almost like to some people is discordant or in a way that's just very different compared to what the standard assumptions of beauty or harmony are supposed to be.

我想起她和约翰·列侬那张标志性的照片：他赤身裸体，以胎儿姿势蜷缩在她身边，而她一身黑衣——这正是金星与土星结合时那种全黑着装的体现。

I think of that iconic image of her with John Lennon where he's curved around her in the fetal position naked and she's dressed all in black and how the Venus Saturn dressing all in black.

我有时看到金星与土星的配置会表现为全身穿着黑色、灰色，或非常简约、低调的色彩。

That's something that I've sometimes seen with Venus Saturn where it can be dressed in all black or gray or very kind of simple paired down colors.

是的，她经常穿黑色。

Yeah, how she would often be dressed in black.

完全正确。

Totally.

这引出了另一个方面：除了外表、审美和美感之外，金星作为关系的一般象征，也关乎一个人处理关系的方式，或者他们在关系不同阶段所经历的一些事情。

And that brings up another thing in addition to appearance and aesthetic and beauty, but also just Venus as a general significator of relationships and sometimes the way that either a person approaches relationships or sometimes some of the experiences that they have at different points in relationships.

对她而言，生命中一件非常重要且具有代表性的经历是，她深爱的人被一名疯狂的粉丝枪杀。而她的出生图中，金星与土星合相如此靠近，让她经历了这样的创伤。

For her, of course, a very important and characteristic thing in her life was that she lost the love of her life at one point when he was murdered by a crazy fan and having that Venus Saturn conjunction so close there in her birth chart and just having that experience.

当然，她的星盘中还有其他因素，但仅就关系、伴侣关系，有时甚至是婚姻的体验而言，这本身就是一个独立的话题，取决于出生图中金星的状况，以及第七宫和第七宫守护星等其他因素。

Obviously, there's other stuff going on in her chart as well, but that's a whole topic in and of itself in terms of the experience of relationships and partnership and sometimes marriage based on the situation and condition of Venus in the birth chart as well as other placements like the seventh house, the ruler of the seventh house.

是的。

Yeah.

我还想补充一点，对于那些出生时金星与土星相合的人来说，虽然确实可能表现为爱人的离世——这非常符合金星与土星的特质，但并不一定非得如此显现。

And I feel like I should say too for those born with Venus Saturn that while a correlation can be the death of the beloved which very much fits Venus Saturn, It obviously does not have to play out that way.

它也可能表现为持久稳固的关系，或是经过漫长等待后才到来的晚来之爱。

It can also be the long lasting enduring relationship or it can be the love that comes in late in life after waiting a long time.

这是我见过的另一种表现方式。

That's another way that I've seen that come through.

因此，尽管有时确实会经历心碎、终结，甚至爱人的离世，但金星与土星同样也可能带来长久而坚定的承诺。

So while there is the heartbreak that the ending, the loss could sometimes quite literally the death of the beloved, there can also be that long term enduring commitment that's present with Venus Saturn as well.

它并不一定非要那样发展。

It does have to go that way.

是的，说得很好。

Yeah, good point.

而且，有时与伴侣一起工作，或在工作中与对方共同找到乐趣，也是一种非常良好的金星与土星组合。

And also sometimes working together or finding pleasure and work with one's partner could be a very good Venus Saturn combination as well.

当然。

Absolutely.

而且为这段关系建立一个稳固的框架也很重要。

And creating a solid container for the relationship too.

我觉得这真的能满足维纳斯与土星的一些需求——当土星不再是彼此之间的障碍或界限时，你可以在异地恋中看到维纳斯与土星的体现。

I feel like that can really meet some of those Venus Saturn needs of where Saturn instead of being the barrier or the boundary between and you can see Venus Saturn in long distance relationships.

但它也可以是围绕关系的坚固框架，能够承载并依靠它，就像关系中的基石一样。

But it can also be that kind of the solid container around a relationship that can hold it, that can be relied upon like a foundation in the relationship.

definitely。

Definitely.

这个

The

婚姻誓言‘至死不渝’其实是一个非常典型的维纳斯与土星的表达。

marriage vow until death do us part is a great Venus Saturn statement really.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

这让我想起土星在天秤座有落陷，而金星在某种程度上能够提炼并去除土星一些不太积极或粗粝的方面。

And that reminds me that Saturn is sort of exalted in Libra and has its exaltation in Libra and that Venus in some way is able to refine and sort of get rid of some of the less negative or the rough around the edges components of Saturn.

我认为这就是土星被认为在天秤座落陷的原因之一。

I think that's one of the reasons why Saturn is thought to be exalted in Libra.

而当两者在最高层次上结合时，常常能建立一种非常持久且永恒的纽带。

And the two sometimes in their highest expressions can do very well together by creating a bond that is very long lasting and permanent.

是的，这在解释落陷和它们如何如此和谐地协同工作时非常有道理，即使它们看似矛盾。

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense in terms of that exaltation and how they really can work so beautifully together even if they seem to be contradictory.

对。

Right.

让我们看看，土星有时会表示延迟。

Let's see, so Saturn can sometimes indicate delays.

因此，有时那些持久的事物中，金星与土星的组合可能暗示着关系中的延迟，或在某种意义上延迟遇见对的人。

So sometimes there can be like And things that are long lasting, there can sometimes Venus Saturn combination can indicate like a delay in relationships or delay in finding the one in some sense.

因为土星与时间和年龄有关，而金星与土星的另一个常见且常被提及的组合表现是关系中的年龄差距，当出生图中金星与土星显著时，这是一种非常普遍且有趣的体现。

Thing because Saturn has to do with time and age and one of the other funny and often mentioned Venus Saturn combination components is sometimes age disparities and relationships, which is a very common and interesting manifestation to see when Venus Saturn is prominent in a birth chart.

确实如此。

Definitely.

是的，经常表现为年长一方的爱，或者需要很长时间才能找到伴侣，又或者爱上一个人后却要等待很久才能在一起。

Yeah, it's often the love of the older partner being a consistent expression there or whether it's waiting a long time to find a partner or falling in love with someone and waiting a long time to even be with them.

我见过这种情况，无论是六年、十年，甚至在某些情况下长达三十年，但最终这些关系在时间的沉淀中得以展现，并因双方带来的成熟度而更加丰富——土星所代表的成熟为这段关系增添了深度。

I've seen that play out whether it's six years or ten or thirty in one case and yet being able to see those relationships manifest in the fullness of time and being all the richer for the maturity, Saturn relating to maturity that is brought to the relationship then.

是的，我觉得这很有道理。

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.

许多古代文献也提到，金星与土星的组合有时被视为具有挑战性或困难，与传统观念中的常规关系相比尤其如此，因为古代文献中并没有天王星。

A lot of the ancient texts also, I think there's just something about Venus Saturn combinations where it's sometimes viewed as something that's challenging or difficult or what would be challenging compared to a conventional relationship, especially in the traditional texts because they didn't have Uranus.

有时土星几乎充当了天王星的角色，代表某种非传统或会制造障碍的复杂因素，但这种困难有时是可以克服的。

Sometimes Saturn would almost act as a stand in for Uranus as that which is unconventional in some way or that would create a complication that's an obstacle, but sometimes it's a surmountable difficulty of some sort.

例如，年龄差距有时会被视为一个问题，或是一个双方从非常不同角度看待关系的领域，比如两人年龄相差超过金星周期的八年左右。

Age disparity, for example, can sometimes be viewed as something that can be like a problem or an area where people are coming at a relationship from very different perspectives if they're like, I don't know, more than let's say a Venus cycle of eight years apart or something like that.

但当双方努力时，这或许是能够克服的；一些古代文献还提到，与有残疾的人建立关系，是古代文献中常见的金星与土星相位的诠释之一，原因各异，我一直觉得从文化角度来看，这种诠释被频繁提及非常有趣。

But it's something that when they work towards perhaps it's something that can be overcome or some of the ancient texts also mention being in a relationship with somebody who had a disability or something like that is a very common Venus Saturn delineation in ancient texts for different reasons, which I always thought was interesting from a cultural standpoint just in terms of why they were mentioning that delineation so regularly.

是的。

Yeah.

在这一特定背景下，这种说法也非常合理，因为关系中会存在照料或滋养的成分。

That just makes a lot of sense in that particular context as well where there would be that caretaking or nurturing element in that relational dynamic.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

All right.

所以我们已经开始讨论行星组合了，我认为这是个非常好的话题和想法。

So we've gotten into talking about planetary combinations, I think is a really good thing and good idea.

我们之前聚焦在金星和土星上。

We focused on Venus, Saturn.

水星和金星，我在上一期关于水星的节目中稍微提到过，它涉及如何通过水星般的沟通特质来表达金星所代表的美。

Mercury Venus, I talked a little bit about in the last episode on Mercury where it has to do with ways in which one could articulate beauty which is Venus through like a Mercurial component which is usually things of like communication.

因此，我举了一些具有水星与金星合相的诗人为例，他们以富有艺术性或审美吸引力的方式运用语言进行表达。

And so I cited for example different poets that have Venus Mercury conjunctions and express language or communicate in an artistic or aesthetically appealing fashion.

是的。

Yeah.

当我研究不同水星与金星组合的人物时，也发现了许多诗人，这很合理。

When I was looking into different Mercury Venus figures, also coming across different poets and makes sense.

语言本身就是一种艺术形式，以优美的方式运用文字。

It's the word as art form, the use of language in a beautiful way.

我觉得很有趣的是，如果我们所掌握的莎士比亚出生数据是准确的，那么莎士比亚的星盘中水星和金星呈六分相，而金星则与所有三颗外行星形成紧张相位。

I thought it was interesting that if the birth data that we have for Shakespeare is correct that Shakespeare would have had a Mercury Venus sextile and then Venus in hard aspect to all three of the outer planets.

也就是说，金星与海王星合相，与天王星成对冲，并与冥王星构成T型相位。

So a conjunction with Neptune in opposition to Uranus and a T square with Pluto.

因此，水星和金星的配置，就是诗人的相位。

So you have the Mercury, Venus, it's the poet's aspect.

但有了所有三颗外行星，你就能看到莎士比亚戏剧的广度、深度、复杂性以及其高度与 intricacies，这是一位如此非凡且备受赞誉的艺术家。

But then with all three of the outer planets, you just see the breadth and depth and complexity and heights and complexities of Shakespeare's plays coming in that such an extraordinary artist who's been so celebrated.

当然，他必须拥有一个复杂的金星来配合这一点。

Of course, he would have to have a complex Venus to go along with that.

是的，毫无疑问。

Yeah, for sure.

我想我常举的例子是T.S.艾略特，他的金星和水星在天秤座合相，正好落在出生图的上升点上。

Or I think the one I often cite is TS Eliot who had a Venus Mercury conjunction in Libra right on the Ascendant in their birth chart.

对。

Yeah.

全部

All

没错。

right.

所以这相当直接。

So that's pretty straightforward.

我觉得在金星和水星的组合方面，还有哪些其他行星组合值得快速提一下呢？

I think in terms of Venus Mercury combinations, what are some other combinations of planets that would be good ones to just touch on really quickly?

我的意思是，如果我们回头看看日月这两个亮星，我翻阅过一些档案中的人物，发现那些拥有太阳与金星合相的人，往往散发出一种爱或美的气质。

Well, I mean, if we look at the Sun and the Moon, if we kind of dip back to our luminaries, I was looking into a number of different figures just in my archives who have Sun Venus conjunctions and noticed certain themes around people who kind of just radiate that sense of either love or beauty.

奥普拉有太阳金星合相，简·方达有太阳金星合相，莱昂纳多·迪卡普里奥有太阳金星合相，惠特妮·休斯顿和可可·香奈儿也是。

Oprah has Sun Venus, Jane Fonda has Sun Venus, Leonardo DiCaprio has Sun Venus and Whitney Houston, Coco Chanel.

我只是随便举些跳进我脑海里的例子。

I mean, I'm kind of just pulling some random samples that kind of jumped out to me.

但太阳的一个表现就是，它不仅代表我们认同的东西，也代表我们如何称呼自己。

But something with the Sun is one of the expressions of the Sun is it's what we not just identify as but what we name ourselves, what we call ourselves.

所以维纳斯·威廉姆斯就是太阳金星合相。

And so, Venus Williams is Sun Venus.

我觉得这太贴切了，她的本名就是维纳斯，而她的太阳和金星又是合相的。

I thought, Well, that's so fitting that her actual name solar identity is Venus and she has a Sun Venus conjunction.

就像弗雷迪·默丘里有太阳水星合相，这直接体现在他的名字里。

Just like Freddie Mercury has a Sun Mercury conjunction and how that comes directly into the name.

至于月亮与金星的组合，我们之前谈到过温柔的特质，这正是月亮金星的原型表达。

And then in terms of Moon Venus, just the archetypal expression of Moon Venus really tends to have we're talking about sweetness earlier.

月亮金星可能是所有相位中最温柔的，爱与连接通过情感以一种极具滋养性、亲和力和关怀的方式展现出来。

Moon Venus might be the sweetest of all aspects that the expression of love and connection is coming through the emotions in a really nurturing, connecting, caretaking way.

我想到的一些拥有月亮金星的人物，比如先生。

Some of the figures who have Moon Venus that I was thinking about like Mr.

罗杰斯拥有月亮金星。

Rogers has Moon Venus.

他实际上拥有月亮、金星和水星的组合。

He actually has Moon Venus Mercury.

这是一个三合相。

It's a triple conjunction.

这种温柔体现在与孩子的关系上，月亮象征着孩子，也代表着对孩子的爱。

And so that sweetness in relation to children, the Moon being a symbol of children, that love of children.

而水星的加入，则带来了教育层面的意义，即真正热爱沟通。

But then with Mercury in there, there's the educational piece as well, really loving communication.

哦，太好了。

Oh, great.

完美。

Perfect.

是的。

Yeah.

说得对，正是如此。

Mean, exactly.

都在双鱼座。

It's all in Pisces.

那太好了。

That's great.

都在双鱼座。

It's all in Pisces.

没错。

Right.

现在我们也可以引入金星的旺相了。

Now we can bring in the exaltation too of Venus.

而且他实际上有金牛座上升，所以金星是命宫的守护星。

And he actually has Taurus rising, so Venus is the ruler of the Ascendant.

太美了。

Beautiful.

是的，太阳也在双鱼座。

Yeah, and the Sun there in Pisces too.

所以他是我想到的一个人，真正体现了那种月亮与金星般的温柔、滋养与关怀。

So he was one person I thought of that really carries that kind of Moon Venus sweetness and nurturance and care.

我还想到了保罗·麦卡特尼，他创作了大量非常甜美、近乎纯真的情歌，比如《我想牵你的手》《傻傻的小情歌》，披头士歌单里有太多非凡的歌词。

Also thought of Paul McCartney who has so many very sweet, almost innocent love songs, I want to hold your hand, silly little love songs, so many of the extraordinary lyrics in the Beatles catalog.

米歇尔·奥巴马也是另一个让我想到的人，她拥有月亮与金星的能量，并且特别关注儿童。

Michelle Obama was someone else who came to mind with Moon Venus and her focus as well on children.

她在白宫担任第一夫人期间，许多倡议都聚焦于儿童和饮食，这体现了月亮的能量，同时也以金星的方式表达爱意。

Her time as first lady in the White House that a lot of her campaigns focused on children and on food and that's bringing in kind of the lunar but in relation to Venus as expressions of love as well.

是的，这是个很好的例子。

Yeah, that's a good one.

月亮落在金星，她的关注点在于你吃的食物，尤其是我们给公立学校的孩子们提供的饮食，以及改善公立学校餐食的营养价值。

Moon in Venus and her focus was on what you eat and especially what we were feeding children in public schools and improving the nutritional value of public school meals.

这正是月亮与金星的一种绝佳体现，金星代表滋养，月亮则关乎身体，涉及什么是滋养、什么是健康，以及什么能在一个人的早期生命中促进其成长。

And that's a great Moon Venus manifestation just in terms of Venus as nurturing and also the Moon as the body and questions of what is nurturing or what is healthy and what is going to nurture and help a person grow over the course of their early life.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

是的，这些就是我想起的具有月亮与金星特质的人物。

Yeah, so those were some of the figures I thought of with Moon Venus.

而且还要回到我们之前讨论的性别问题，罗杰斯先生是一个很好的例子，他作为一个具有月亮和金星特质的男性，以一种既母性又阳刚的方式表达对孩子的关怀与呵护，这样说你能理解吗。

And also coming back to what we were talking about before with gender, Mr.

是的。

How Rogers is a really great example of a lunar and Venusian man who's expressing that nurturance and care for children in a way that's both maternal and masculine at the same time, if that makes sense.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我觉得他正是这一点的绝佳例子。

So I just thought he was a great example of that.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢他星盘中水星与金星在双鱼座的合相，因为他说话非常轻柔，语调温和，同时充满鼓励和帮助。

I like that Mercury Venus conjunction in Pisces in his chart because he was very soft spoken and just the speaking style was very soft, but also just encouraging and helpful.

这是一个非常好的例子，某种程度上体现了双鱼座的群星汇聚，但更重要的是水星与金星的组合不仅具有审美吸引力，还带有柔和的特质，能够提供支持、帮助或滋养。

That's a very good example to use of I guess partially a Pisces stellium, but also just Mercury Venus not just being something that's aesthetically appealing, but that's also soft in some way and can be helpful or supportive or nourishing.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

对。

Yeah.

嗯，我们来看看。

Well, let's see.

那么，我们来谈谈金星与火星的组合，我们之前已经深入讨论过这种对立关系。

So then we have Venus with Mars and we obviously discussed that polarity at length.

我的意思是，我经常看到的这种表现方式是，金星的艺术形式通过火星被赋予了行动、动力或生命。

I mean, often charts that I'll see that expressed in are where Venus's art form is brought into motion or into action or to life through Mars.

因此，无论是舞者、歌手、音乐家、表演者，还是优雅的运动员，都是如此。

And so whether that's dancers or singers, musicians, performers, graceful athletes as well.

就音乐家而言，布鲁斯·斯普林斯汀是个很好的例子，他的音乐中明显带有火星的锐气；还有尼尔·杨也是如此。

And in terms of musicians like Bruce Springsteen is a great example, someone who really has that kind of Martian edge, it's coming through his music, his art form or Neil Young.

我最喜欢的一个例子是，如果你熟悉百老汇歌手阿黛娜·门泽尔的话，她最广为人知的身份是《冰雪奇缘》中艾莎的配音。

One of my favorite examples of this is if you're familiar at all with the Broadway singer, Adena Menzel, she's probably best known for being the voice of Elsa in Frozen.

但她拥有如此强大的嗓音，而火星正是让这种声音变得响亮有力的原因。

But she has such a powerful voice and how Mars can kind of give that loudness to the voice.

我们曾在某个描述中看到过，我想是阿布·马沙尔提到过‘甜美歌唱’。

We saw in one of the description, I think it was Abu Ma'shar talking about sweet singing.

但金星与火星结合时，是一种响亮、有力、充满力量的演唱，极具穿透力。

But with Venus Mars, it's like loud, powerful, forceful singing that really kind of carries with strength.

是的，她在运动方面也让我想到了这样的人。

Yeah, she was someone who came to mind on the athletic side.

比利·简·金，那位网球运动员，就是我在七十年代赢下那场比赛的女性，虽然我忘了那个男人的名字，但那是一个具有突破性的女权主义时刻；她拥有金星与火星的配置，比赛中每次击球时都会发出 grunt 声，仿佛在战场上作战。

Billie Jean King, the tennis player who was the woman who I'm forgetting the name of the man she beat in a match in the '70s, but it was like this really breakthrough feminist moment and she has Venus Mars and she was known to grunt on the tennis court almost at the battlefield each time she would hit the ball.

几年前有一部电影，由艾玛·斯通饰演她，名叫《性别大战》。

And there was a film made a few years ago with Emma Stone playing her called Battle of the Sexes.

就连电影的标题本身，也展现了金星与火星的符号，象征着男女之间的性别大战，这场战争在网球场上展开；她在那个时代是一位极具突破性的女权主义象征，而她恰好拥有金星与火星的相位——我敢肯定，拍这部电影的人对此一无所知。

And even in the title of that, they show like the Venus Mars symbols of the battle of the sexes and this war between men and women playing out on the tennis court and how she was such a breakthrough feminist symbol in that time and that she has the Venus Mars alignment which I'm sure no one making the film knew.

所以是的，我又想到了她，作为这种动态的另一个例子。

So yeah, she's another example I thought of with that dynamic.

我忘了我们还没提到过，但金星和火星的符号在二十世纪逐渐成为男女的通用象征——金星代表女性，火星代表男性；有人最近在推特上指出，这种关联其实相当新近。

I forgot we hadn't mentioned that but for the symbols of Venus and Mars and that those became like in the twentieth century, the generic symbols for men and women like Venus for women and Mars for men, which somebody pointed out that that association was relatively recent on Twitter recently.

不过有趣的是，我不确定这究竟有多新，因为传统上金星本就与女性或阴性特质相关，而火星则常与男性或某种被概念化的阳刚特质联系在一起。

Although it is interesting that I'm not sure how recent it is necessarily because Venus traditionally would have been associated with women or femininity versus Mars being associated sometimes with men or with whatever was conceptualized as masculinity.

没错。

Right.

听到这些符号不只是作为行星符号，而是被用作像厕所标识之类的东西，还挺有意思的。

It's interesting to hear that just as a kind of not as a planetary glyph but just as a symbol for like a bathroom sign or something that they would be used.

而现在，我们正处在一个再次打破这种界限的时刻，我们可以把金星符号放在所有洗手间门上，也可以把火星符号放在所有洗手间门上。

And now we're in a moment where that's breaking down again and can put Venus on all bathroom doors and we can put Mars on all bathroom doors.

是的。

Yeah.

有趣的是，这正是占星术至今仍以各种方式渗透到我们文化中的一个体现，它有时以你最初并未意识到、甚至难以察觉的方式影响着我们，直到你开始研究占星术，才明白这些事物的来源。

Well, it's interesting that that's one of the ways that astrology permeates our culture still in different ways and it has influenced it sometimes in ways that you don't initially realize or are imperceptible until you start studying astrology and realizing where some of these things come from.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

有些东西已经走出了墙壁，我这么说吧。

Something that's left the walls, I could say.

没错，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

在忘记之前，我再快速提一下：星期几也和金星有关，金星对应的是星期五。

Really quickly before I forget, there's also associations with the days of the week and Venus is associated with Friday.

我忘了本来想提这一点，因为你提到过与金星相关的神祇，而我们之所以称星期五为Friday，正是源于此，对吧？

And I forgot I meant to mention that because you mentioned one of the gods associated with Venus and that's where we get the name Friday from, right?

对，是芙蕾雅，星期五的名字就这么来的。

Yes, Freya, Friday.

有两位北欧女神的形象里都融入了金星的部分特质。

There are two Norse goddesses who both seem to carry elements of Venus.

我一直把芙蕾雅和金星的关联记得最牢，因为她是执掌爱与战争的女神。

Freya is the one that I've most associated because she is the goddess of love and war.

她乘坐的战车由两只猫牵引。

She rides a chariot pulled by two cats.

阿农娜，

Annona,

对了，

by the

她的坐骑是一头狮子，我觉得这点特别有意思。

way, her steed, her mount is a lion which I thought was great.

而北欧神话里的另一位是弗丽嘉，至于星期五这个名称的由来，我其实都不确定它是源自芙蕾雅还是弗丽嘉。

But the other one in the Norse is Frigga and the fry of Friday, I'm actually not even sure if it's from Freya or from Frigga.

但弗丽嘉是众神之王后，因此是一个非常不同的角色，但在希腊罗马神话体系中，她与赫拉或朱诺有些相似。

But Frigga is like the queen of the gods and so would be a very different character but would be somewhat comparable to Hera or Juno in the Greco Roman pantheon.

好的。

Okay.

太棒了。

Awesome.

这里有一个小图表，展示了传统的七天一周，即星期一、星期二、星期三、星期四、星期五、星期六和星期日。

Here's a little diagram that just shows the seven day week which is the traditional week of Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

而我们之所以有七天一周，是因为每一天最初都与一颗行星相关联，这其中在希腊罗马社会及其相关背景中有着一段非常有趣的故事。

And this seven day week actually comes from or the reason we have a seven day week is because each of the days was originally associated with each of the planets and there's a whole interesting story there in terms of where that comes from in Greco Roman society and things like that.

但对于不熟悉这一点的人，仅就本话题而言，金星是与星期五相关的行星。

But for those that are not familiar with that, just for the purpose of this, Venus is the planet that's associated with Friday.

我总是喜欢想，你觉得第一个星期一是什么样子的？

I always like to think, what do you think the first Monday was like?

我们现在正在实施这一点。

We're implementing this now.

第一个星期一，第一个星期五到来。

First Monday, the first Friday to unfold.

是的。

Yeah.

我经常在想，这种计数是从什么时候开始的，因为它已经持续了这么久。

I often wonder when the counting started because it's been going on for so long now.

这已经延续了两千多年，很难想象有什么东西能如此一致地传承两千多年。

This is something that's been in place for over two thousand years and it's wild to think about something that can be passed down that consistently for over two thousand years now.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

而且，尽管我们今天用英语命名的星期几，实际上反映了多个神系的融合。

And even though the names of the days of the week as we have them translated into English, should say, that we have multiple pantheons coming together.

有些名称源自希腊，有些则来自北欧。

Some are speaking to the Greek, some are to the Norse.

是的，所有这些不同的文化线索汇聚在一起，真是令人惊叹。

Yeah, it's just amazing how all these different cultural threads came together.

是的。

Yeah.

其中一些仍然很明确，比如太阳和星期日，或者土星和星期六，但其他的在英语中已经模糊或不太清楚了。

And some of them are still clear like the Sun and Sunday of course or Saturn and Saturday, but others have been lost or a little bit more obscure at least in English.

是的。

Yeah.

月亮和星期一，这个也很明确。

Moon Monday, that one's a clear one too.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

All right.

那么回到我们的讨论。

So back to our discussion.

哦，对了。

Oh, right.

我们刚才在讨论行星组合。

We were going through planetary combinations.

也许我们应该先完成这部分，然后再转向下一位占星师的下一个段落。

Maybe we should finish that and then move on to our next astrologer, next excerpt.

完美。

Perfect.

如果我们把金星和火星放在一起，接下来可以看看金星与木星的组合。

Well, if we leave Venus with Mars then as we can look at Venus with Jupiter.

我发现，许多我通常与金星-木星组合相关的特质，在这些对金星的描述中都能感受到。

And I did find that a lot of the qualities that I would associate with a Venus Jupiter combination, a lot of those both felt present in these descriptions of Venus.

也许这是因为两种吉星的结合，这两种能量交融后呈现出极度奢华与放纵的特质，注重生活中的精致细节与富丽堂皇。

Maybe it's the marriage of two benefits and how those two energies come together where it's very luxurious and indulgent and the focus on the finer things in life, the opulence.

占星师马修·斯特尔兹纳曾称金星与木星的组合为‘巴黎的周末’相位。

The astrologer Matthew Stelzner, I've heard him call Venus Jupiter the weekend in Paris aspect.

我觉得这个描述太贴切了——美丽的酒店房间、一束鲜艳硕大的鲜花、精美的艺术品、美味的食物与美酒、浓郁的酱汁、丰盛的甜点，还有愉快的伴侣，等等。

I think that's such a great description where it's the beautiful hotel room and the bouquet of bright, beautiful, huge flowers and fine art and good food and good wine and creamy sauces and rich desserts and lovely company and so on.

这就是我对金星木星组合的感受。

So that's my feeling around Venus Jupiter.

是的。

Yeah.

我记得你提到过一个人，她的金星和木星呈合相，但这是与天秤座内更广泛的星群相联系的。

And I think you mentioned somebody with a Venus Jupiter conjunction although it's tied in with a wider stellium in the sign of Libra.

对。

Yes.

她的星盘非常强大，金星与冥王星的相位更紧密。

She has such a powerful chart and the Venus Pluto is tighter.

她真的非常具有金星特质。

Mean, she is really a Venus.

是的，整个星群——水星、土星、木星、金星、冥王星——都聚集在上升点。

Yeah, the whole stellium Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter, Venus, Pluto at the Ascendant.

但金星和木星有一种特质，让人仿佛发光、散发魅力。

But there's a quality with Venus Jupiter where someone kind of glows, they radiate.

这种美中带有一种金色的特质，我觉得她以一种非凡的方式承载着这种美。

There's kind of this golden element to the beauty and I feel like she's a figure that really carries that in an extraordinary way.

她身上也有很强的普鲁托能量，与金星木星的能量紧密交织。

She's got that Plutonic power as well very much in the mix with the Venus Jupiter.

我的意思是，木星与冥王星的结合加上金星，这种组合带来一种崇高的力量，而她作为R&B女王，完美地展现了这种气质。

I mean, Jupiter Pluto, that combination with Venus, it's such an elevated power and the way that she carries that being the queen of R and B.

就像她的歌曲《Brown Skin Girl》，这是一首对美、对深色皮肤之美的热烈颂歌。

Just like her song Brown Skin Girl which is such a celebration of beauty and of the beauty of dark skin.

如果你观看这首歌的音乐视频，就会发现她的木星能量就是一种庆祝，视频中的每一个画面都是对美的颂扬。

And how if you watch the music video for that song, you just see her Jupiter is celebration and every single image in that music video is a celebration of beauty.

你可以在她的整个作品集中看到这一点，但这是我特别喜欢的一首，因为这首歌真正将一种曾被文化压迫和贬低的美置于中心——这就是柏拉图式元素的体现，而这首歌却在颂扬它。

You can see that throughout her catalog, but that's a particular favorite of mine because there is this really centering of a beauty that has been here's where the Platonic element comes in, a beauty that has been culturally oppressed and denigrated and the song is instead celebrating that.

她唱到自己女儿的卷发，以及她的皮肤如珍珠般闪耀。

She's singing about her daughter's nappy curls and that her skin is like pearls.

而金星与木星的能量就在于此，将这种美提升到了非凡的高度。

And the Venus Jupiter element there where just elevating that beauty to such an extraordinary height.

所以我认为这就是金星与木星如此强大的地方之一。

And so I think that's one of what Venus Jupiter is so capable of.

它体现了美丽、艺术以及爱的宏伟。

It's the grandeur of beauty, art, of love as well.

更广泛地说，金星与木星代表了一颗开放的心，其中蕴含着爱的慷慨。

Speaking more generally, Venus Jupiter is the open heart and it's a kind of generosity of love is present there.

我想起的另一个具有金星与木星特质的人物是，如果你熟悉史蒂夫·温伍德创作的歌曲《Higher Love》，他拥有月亮、金星与木星、海王星的配置。

Another figure I think of with Venus Jupiter is if you're familiar with the song Higher Love that was originally written by Steve Wynwood, he has Moon Venus with Jupiter and Neptune.

那种‘更高层次的爱’的概念，你既能感受到金星与海王星带来的超脱，也能体会到金星与木星所带来的扩展感——一种不同的更高层次的爱，而他两者兼具。

And that idea of higher love like searching for a higher love, you get the transcendence of the Venus Neptune, but you also get that kind of expansion, a different kind of higher love with the Venus Jupiter and he has both.

我们这里也想聊一聊一些金星与海王星的内容。

The song was We want to dip into some Venus Neptune here too.

这首歌后来被惠特妮·休斯顿翻唱，她是一个太阳与金星的人物，同时也具备金星与海王星的特质。

The song was covered by Whitney Houston who is a Sun Venus figure, but she's also Venus Neptune.

因此，她演唱的《Higher Love》版本，与史蒂夫·温伍德的原版相比，无疑具有不同的气质。

And so she sings her version of higher love which has a different quality to it for sure than the original by Steve Wynwood.

但你可以看到，在这两版中，他们都传达了这种金星海王星的特质，即在他们的演绎中体现了一种超凡、神圣或神圣的爱。

But you can see in both that they're kind of carrying this Venus Neptune, the sense of like a transcendent or sacred or divine love in their portrayals of the song.

再进一步说，2019年出现了一个由浩室DJ Kylo制作的混音版，而他本人拥有金星木星的配置。

And just to take it one layer further, there is a remix version that came out in 2019 remixed by the house DJ, Kylo, who has Venus Jupiter.

你可以在他的许多音乐中感受到金星木星的能量。

And you hear the Venus Jupiter in a lot of his music.

他还有天王星海王星的配置，因此音乐中带有一种耀眼的元素。

He's also Uranus Neptune, so there's kind of that dazzling element there.

但他创作的音乐有一种非常鼓舞人心的特质，我认为这同样契合金星木星的特质。

But there's a very uplifting quality to how he creates his music and I think that fits the Venus Jupiter as well.

你感到快乐，感到喜悦，节奏轻快。

You feel happy, you feel joyful, it's upbeat.

所以他为惠特妮·休斯顿演唱的《Higher Love》制作了一个出色的混音版，这样一来，她的嗓音承载着金星海王星，他的混音则承载着金星木星，而这一切又重新回归到原唱者史蒂夫·温伍德natal的金星木星海王星配置。

So he does this great remix of Whitney Houston singing Higher Love And so kind of putting it all together, her voice is carrying the Venus Neptune, his remix is carrying the Venus Jupiter, and that all adds back up to Steven Winwood's natal Venus Jupiter Neptune who originally wrote the song.

我非常喜爱看到围绕这首歌曲所展现的这一连串原型模式。

I just loved seeing that chain of archetypal patterns around that one song.

我也真的很喜欢这首歌。

I also just really love that one song.

是的。

Yeah.

我希望在像这样的节目中，我能播放一小段，因为有时候听到它会很有帮助。

I wish in episodes like this I could play an excerpt from it because that would be kind of nice to hear it sometimes.

我知道，对于音乐来说，真正听到它并获得那种直观的体验，往往是一种很好的连接方式。

And I know sometimes that's a good way to connect with some of these things in terms of music is to actually hear it and have that sort of visceral experience.

也许我们可以推荐一下本节目中提到的这些歌曲。

Well, maybe we can recommend the different songs that have been mentioned in this.

我们可以引导听众和观众去观看或收听这些不同的歌曲，以获得更全面的音乐视觉体验，无论是碧昂丝的那首歌，还是《Higher Love》的这个混音版，或者我们提到过的金星土星或金星冥王星相关的其他歌曲。

We can send the listeners and the viewers off to watch or listen to these various songs after to get a more encompassing musical visual experience, whether it's the Beyonce song or this remix of Higher Love or some of the others that we mentioned in Venus Saturn or Venus Pluto.

对。

Yeah.

在金星木星的相位中，这两颗吉星传统上被视为一种积极或幸运的相位，以不同的方式带来好运。

In Venus Jupiter, the two benefics is traditionally viewed as like a positive or a lucky aspect, lucky in different ways.