处女座在占星学中的含义与特质

我还发起了一个推特投票，收集了关于处女座的关键词，以及我们将在本集不同环节提到的名人。

I also did a poll on Twitter for keywords for Virgo as well as celebrities that we'll mention at different points in this episode.

但卡米尔写了一些关于处女座和双鱼座的精彩对比，我想快速读一下，作为讨论的切入点。

But Camille wrote some really good contrasts I wanted to read out really quickly between Virgo and Pisces that might be good jumping off points for discussion.

她说，处女座的关键词是‘帮助’，而双鱼座的关键词是‘疗愈’。

So she said Virgo is about The keyword is help, whereas Pisces keyword is heal.

处女座服务于物质层面，而双鱼座则服务于意识、灵魂或精神层面。

Virgo service in the material realm versus service in the realm of consciousness, soul, or spirit.

处女座注重准备。

Virgo operates on preparedness.

双鱼座则依赖信念。

Pisces operates on faith.

处女座说：我有个计划。

Virgo's I have a plan.

双鱼座说：我有个梦想。

Pisces is I have a dream.

处女座的逻辑思维与神秘思维，学术智慧与情感/灵性智慧，务实与空想，物质与形而上，常识与第六感，自律与自我消解，寻求信息 versus 寻求灵感。

Virgo's logistical mind versus mystical mind, academic intelligence versus emotional slash spiritual intelligence, practical versus fanciful, physical versus metaphysical, common sense versus sixth sense, self discipline versus self diluting, seeks information versus seeks inspiration.

这真是个很好的观点。

That's a really good one.

需要知道 versus 随遇而安，批判性思维 versus 宏观思维，聚焦 versus 走神。

Need to know versus go with the flow, critical thinker versus big thinker, zooming in versus spacing out.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这些是

So those are

我非常喜欢所有这些，但第一个除外。

I loved all of those, but the first one.

你真的这么觉得？

You did?

我得挑一个我不喜欢的。

I have to pick one that I don't like.

你就说，我们在讨论处女座。

You're like, we're talking about Virgo.

我们来吧。

Let's do it.

问题。

The problems.

不如就

Might as

吧。

well.

对。

Right.

但第一个是什么？

But what was the first one?

帮助 versus 治愈。

Help versus heal.

所以，现在轮到我说出我超爱的这句话了。

So this is where I get to say this phrase I love too.

处女座的人很挑剔。

Virgos are tweaky.

所以有时候，只需要稍微调整一下，就能做到完美。

So sometimes it's just about tweaking it a little bit to get it just right.

但‘帮助’和‘治愈’，你知道吗？我觉得我们几乎可以用这两个词来形容这两个星座，因为实际上，有些占星师会把草药学和那种治愈的意图联系起来。

But help versus heal, you know, I think I think we could use both of those with both signs almost just because, you know, we associate actually, some astrologers will associate, herbalism and kind of that kind of healing intention.

这其实是一种大地能量的治愈方式，但它确实是治愈。

Like, it's really kind of like an earth application of healing, but it is healing.

很多处女座会被身体疗愈或与人相关的治愈工作吸引，这些工作带有身体层面的成分，或者有实实在在的帮助性质，让治愈变得更为具体、可感知。

And a lot of Virgos will get drawn to body work or kind of healing work with people where there's there's a physical component or a real helping component that kind of brings the healing into a tangible, more tangible space.

所以我觉得，我们确实可以。

So I think I think we could Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一个非常重要的观点，即医学有着重要的组成部分，而且无论是古代还是现在，医学的象征都是赫尔墨斯的商神杖。

That's a really good point that there is a major medical component and and you know, the ancient symbol or even the symbol still now of like medicine is like Hermes caduceus

嗯。

Mhmm.

至于医疗行业和疗愈者来说。

As for the medical profession and for healers.

我认为这 definitely 更像是处女座的特质，而不是双子座的。

And I think that's definitely more of a Virgo thing than a Gemini thing.

没错。

Right.

那种专注于医学、疗愈，以及切实帮助人们改善身体状况的倾向。

That that focus on like medicine and and healing and doing things to practically help people's physical constitution.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，我们也可以看到，它是黄道的第六个星座。

And I mean, we can also see that it's the sixth sign in the zodiac.

我知道你们俩都不认同从A到Z或者1到12这种说法。

And I know that I don't think either of you subscribe to the a to z or one to 12.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

黄道。

Zodiac.

但处于第六宫，处女座掌管六，这也进一步强化了那种疗愈特质以及身体健康。

But, know, being in the sixth house, Virgo ruling over the six, you know, just kind of also adds to that kind of healing quality, but also physical health.

它关乎你的身体。

Like, it's your physical body.

它不是像双鱼座那样的心理健康。

It's not your mental health like Pisces would be.

这是你的身体。

It's your physical body.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

这是个好观点。

That's a good point.

这正是其中一个领域，在那里如果有人试图提出一个十二字母表的论点，我会觉得当你试图将处女座的疗愈成分与第六宫对疾病及类似事物的关注联系起来时，这个论点更有说服力。

And that's that's one of those areas where there is like Where if somebody was trying to make an argument where I feel like it's more compelling if you're trying to make a 12 letter alphabet argument where there is overlap between that healing component of Virgo and the sixth house focus on illness and things like that.

是的。

Yes.

它显然侧重于修复、修补或改善某物。

It definitely seems to be a focus on fixing something, repairing something, or making it better.

因此，在这个语境下，它是一种疗愈。

So it's healing in that context.

对吧？

Right?

也许这只是我的猜测，也许双鱼座有一种冲动，想要让某物恢复完整，重新回归整体视角，这么说吧。

Maybe this just a guess, maybe there's an impulse in Pisces to bring something whole make something whole again, you know, to come back into that big picture view, so to speak.

我不是那个意思。

I don't Right.

只是一个想法。

Just an idea.

但说到处女座，我的意思是，我从事身体疗愈工作九年，一直专注于非常具体和细致的工作。

But with the the Virgo I mean, I did bodywork for nine years, and I was really focused on very specific detailed work.

这正是人们在我评价中会写的内容。

This is how this is what people would write in my reviews.

我当时想：真的吗？

I was like, really?

你都不了解我的星盘，却这么说。

You don't know my chart and you're saying that.

所以你为人们提供身体治疗，帮助他们康复吗？

So you did bodywork for people to help heal people?

是的。

Yeah.

我专注于治疗患有特定疾病、不适或问题的人。

And I and I focused on healing people with specific conditions, ailments, problems.

不管怎样，你知道，他们来找我基本上就是想解决某个问题。

Anyway, you know, just things like they were coming to me to fix something, basically.

我只是像个身体机械师。

I was just like the the body mechanic.

我本该用这个做我的网站名称。

I should have used that as my website.

那会非常好。

Would have been so good.

太聪明了。

So clever.

是的。

Yeah.

我们之前在谈论汽车维修，所以才提到这个。

We were talk that came in because we were talking about car repair before we

是的。

Yeah.

我的水星日记本上沾了汽车机油。

I have car oil over my Pretty Mercury journal.

所以这只是自己换机油的附带影响，毕竟不想花一大笔钱请别人做，对吧。

So just a side effect of needing to change your own oil and not wanting to have to pay somebody a ridiculous amount of money to do Yeah.

这真的很处女座。

That's That's very Virgo.

想想。

Think.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

完全正确。

Totally.

而且要

Well, and be

自己动手做。

Do it yourself.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

自己动手做，同时还要像个万能手。

Do it yourself and also being kind of like a jack of all trades.

像处女座，有时比其他星座更倾向于具备这种万能手的特质。

Like, Virgo, think more than any other sign can sometimes encompass that quality of being a jack of all trades.

但样样通，样样松。

But master of none.

从不。

Never.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这正是我对生活的感受。

It's how I feel about my life constantly.

我一生中多次被人告诉，我擅长很多无用的事情，但我做不了真正重要大事。

I have been told multiple times in my life that I'm really good at a lot of useless things, but I can't do the really big important things.

这仅仅是时间问题。

That's just time.

你会做到的。

You'll get there.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我想是吧。

I guess.

不过，这是个不错的处女座目标——专注于精通某件事，尤其是当你不把它称为精通的时候。

It's a good Virgo aim though, mastery mastery of something, especially if you don't call it mastery.

是的。

Yeah.

我不认为任何人能真正成为任何事物的大师，但你知道，你可以达到一种备受推崇的水平。

I don't think that anybody can be a master of anything truly, but, you know, you can get to, like, a level of very, like, high regard.

但努力提升自己。

But working to improve.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

一直在努力提升。

Always working to improve.

但在这样做时，你知道无论你已掌握多少、做过什么，你始终还需要继续改进。

But in doing that, you know that you'll always need to improve regardless of how much you've known or what you've done.

是的。

Yeah.

这实际上让我想起了我们录影前你提到的一个处女座人物，托尼，就是导演大卫·芬奇。

So that actually brings up a a Virgo that you mentioned, Tony, before we start recording, but a director, but David Fincher.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这真是一个处女座或具有显著处女座星盘特征的绝佳例子。

And that's a really good example of a of a Virgo or somebody with prominent Virgo placements.

我们不知道他的出生时间，所以不清楚他的上升星座，但我们确实知道他有一些星体落在处女座。

We don't know his birth time, so we don't know his rising sign, but we do know he has some placements there.

他的导演风格众所周知是会为同一个场景拍摄多达50次、100次，甚至更多次，直到演员们因反复拍摄同一场景而精疲力尽。

And his directing style famously is that he'll shoot like 50 takes or like a 100 takes or sometimes even more takes of like the same scene until his actors are just exhausted from shooting the same scene over and over again.

然后，他可以从所有拍摄片段中筛选，精确地拼凑出他想要的镜头，因为他清楚地知道自己想要什么。

And then from that, he'll be able to look through all the takes and just piece together exactly what he wants because he knows exactly what he wants to see.

他宁愿多拍很多镜头，以便在剪辑时有大量素材可选，而不是被迫接受那些不符合他心中标准的、有瑕疵的场景。

And he'd rather shoot a bunch of those and then have a ton to choose from in editing rather than not or rather than having to go with the imperfection of a scene that doesn't meet up to his his standard of of what he had in mind.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

这一点我在拍摄天文事件和其他内容的视频时也学到了，虽然我从未拍过电影。

That's something I learned shooting video of I mean, I've never made films, but just shooting video of astrology events and things.

当你在剪辑室里遇到一个糟糕的镜头，却没有任何其他替代素材时，那真是最糟糕的情况。

And and and when you're in the editing room and you've got a bad shot and you have nothing else to choose from, that's the worst.

你懂的吧？

You know?

所以，他选择这种方式对我来说是说得通的。

So so that makes sense to me that he would go in that direction.

而且，他也是一个完美体现处女座工匠原型的绝佳例子，他在自己的领域中非常精湛，从多个角度来看都是如此。

And and then he's he's a great example too of a person who really embodies the Virgo craftsperson archetype, you know, where he's really masterful in his craft and from lots of different perspectives.

而且他也随着时间的推移不断磨练了这一点。

And and he he's fine tuned that over time as well.

尽管他一开始就已经表现得相当不错了，哪怕是拍音乐视频的时候。

Although he came out pretty good at the beginning too, even doing music music videos.

他的音乐视频非常酷。

His music videos are pretty cool.

这些都是编辑相关的吗，处女座？

Is this all editing stuff, Virgos?

如果不是的话，那就祝他们好运了。

Because if they're not, bless their souls.

是的。

Yes.

剪辑是典型的处女座工作。

Editing is a great that's a classic Virgo.

我那个上升星座是处女座的最好的朋友是个剪辑师。

My Virgo rising best friend is a Editor.

是的。

Yeah.

电影剪辑师。

Film editor.

当我上大学时，我学过一点电影，原本打算从事电影剪辑，也确实做了一点点。

When I I've I went to film I studied film in college a bit, and that's what I was intending to do with it was film editing, and and I did a little bit of it.

我很喜欢这份工作，但它非常繁琐，很多处女座都被这种工作吸引。

It's I I love the work, but it is it's laborious, and a lot of Virgos are drawn to that kind of work.

但这种工作可能会让人麻木。

But it can be can be mind numbing.

我不确定。

I don't know.

给我一罐硬币让我数一数。

Give me a jar of pennies to count.

我能坐在那儿好几个小时。

I'll sit there for a couple hours.

你知道的吧？

You know?

完全正确。

Totally.

算我一个。

Sign me up.

不过这是一个非常棒的观点，关于处女座的编辑特质，以及编辑那种超凡的能力——能够看出事物中的缺陷和不完美之处。

That's a really good point though that, general archetype for Virgo's editing and the ability like, the superhuman ability of an editor to, see the flaws and imperfections of something.

丽莎·谢姆的月亮落在处女座，我在书的序言中感谢了她，因为就在出版前最后一两周，她读了我的书，发现了数百个我完全没注意到的拼写错误，她有一种超凡的能力，能一眼看出哪里不对劲。

Lisa Scheim has a Virgo moon and I thanked her in, you know, the introduction to my book because very late in the process, she read it right before I was gonna go to publication like a week or two before and and just found hundreds of typos that I did not see with this like just superhuman inability to read through something and see when something is out of place.

我真的非常钦佩这种能力，我认为这在某些情况下是一种特殊技能，甚至像超能力一样。

And that is something that I really admire and I think is like a special skill or like a superpower in some instances.

似乎拥有处女座星盘位置的人普遍都具备这种特质。

It's something that it seems like people with with Virgo placements tend to share in common.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

如果你是双鱼座，也许会更容易相处。

And maybe a little bit easier to live with if you're a Pisces.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我是在替和我一起生活的人说话。

I'm speaking for the people that live with me.

对。

Right.

或者只是另一种不同的倾向，这种专注对他们来说不会变得乏味。

Or just, you know, a a different orientation where that kind of focus doesn't get tedious to them.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Right.

为了平衡整体，因为处女座能为双鱼座的生活带来这种元素，帮助他们更好地整理事务、更有条理；而双鱼座的角色可能是帮助处女座偶尔放松一下，退后一步，看清大局。

To help balance things out because the Virgo can bring that element into the Pisces life to help them sort of get things together a little bit more or be more regimented whereas maybe the Pisces role is maybe to help the Virgo relax a little bit sometimes and zoom out and view the big picture.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，即使我们不知道大卫·芬奇的准确出生时间，他的太阳、冥王星和天王星都合相在处女座，同时他的水星也位于处女座晚期。

So editing and David Fincher's placements just really quickly even though we don't have his birth time is he has a Sun Pluto Uranus conjunction in Virgo and then he also has Mercury in late Virgo at the same time.

所以我觉得这稍微回溯了你之前提到的观点——太阳与冥王星在处女座合相，会导致冥王星倾向于把事情推向极端。

So I think that goes back a little bit to what you were mentioning earlier having a Sun Pluto conjunction in Virgo and that tendency for Pluto to take things to extremes.

在这种情况下，比如为了拍出他心目中完美的画面，他会不惜拍摄一百条同一场戏。

So in that instance, like taking it to the extreme of shooting like a 100 shots of a scene just in order to like get the exact thing that he want he wants to see.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

对。

Yeah.

而且如果我没记错的话，这还是一个风筝格局的一部分，我不太确定那些水象行星之间的角度是否足够紧密，是否真的形成了三分相。

And there's a if I remember right, that's part of a a kite pattern as well where there's a I'm not sure how tight those water planets are, if they're actually in a trine or not.

所以我认为其中两个可能不是。

So I think maybe two of them aren't.

我觉得其中两个可能太宽了。

I think two of them are maybe too wide.

但视觉上仍然有种感觉，那就是太阳和冥王星几乎与木星相对。

But it still visually has that kind of feel where the the Sun and Pluto are kind of opposite Jupiter.

我看不清这里的度数。

I can't see the degrees here.

是的。

Yeah.

只是在早期的处女座。

It's just early Virgo.

只是冥王星与木星相对？

It just Pluto opposite Jupiter?

在这里。

Here.

让我查一下具体的出生时间，然后用Solar Fire软件排盘。

Let me get the actual birth that and I'll cast it in solar fire.

所以是1962年8月28日。

So it's 08/28/1962.

但我的意思是，我之前确实看过他的星盘，它和他的电影非常契合，而他的电影并不是轻盈的爱情喜剧。

But I mean, I definitely looked at his chart before and it works really well with his films which are not light romantic comedies.

基努·里维斯有土星与天王星合相，对吧？

Keanu Reeves has that Pluto Uranus conjunction, right

是的。

Yeah.

也是这样吗？

As well?

他还以《黑客帝国》这样的电影而闻名，你知道的，那可不是什么浪漫爱情片。

And he's like pretty well known for like The Matrix which is, you know, not a lovey dovey film.

没错。

Right.

你是说在处女座吧。

In Virgo, you mean.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

他儿子也在处女座。

And his son son in Virgo too.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

所以可能形成合相。

So it would maybe be could be conjunct.

我不记得他的星盘细节。

I don't know his chart by heart.

所以这是大卫·芬奇的星盘，仅用正午星盘来看，天王星、太阳、冥王星都位于处女座起始位置，然后是水星。

So this is David Fincher's chart with just a noon chart with, yeah, Uranus, Sun, Pluto at the beginning of Virgo, and then Mercury

在末尾。

at the end.

而且中天被挤在了那里。

And has Midhaven shoved in there.

但我们不知道确切时间，所以无法确定中天或上升点。

Well, we don't we don't know the times, so then we don't know about the Midheaven or Ascendant.

但木星与冥王星和太阳的对冲非常紧密，然后火星也加入了进来。

But the Jupiter opposite Pluto's Sun is pretty tight, and then Mars jumps in there.

我记得有一颗行星还没靠近。

I I remembered one of the planets isn't in close yet.

是海王星，它离构成大三角形还有一点距离。

It's it's the Neptune is a little bit far out from making a grand trine.

不过，如果你从能量层面稍微放宽一点，或者只是按星座来分析相位，当然也可以。

Although, you could you could stretch it a little bit energetically, and also if you're just doing aspects by sign, of course.

对。

Right.

那里有一种大三角形的氛围。

Has kind of a grand trine vibe in there.

然后太阳和冥王星成为风筝格局中的焦点行星，这种格局往往蕴含着很多天赋，而他正是一个绝佳的例子——他的作品中很早就展现出一种技术上的精湛，当然他后来不断精进，但他最初就已经站在一个非常高水平的起点上。

And then the sun and Pluto come in there as as the focal planets in in the kite pattern, which is a really there can be a lot of gifts in that pattern, and he's he's a great example of it where there's there's a kind of technical mastery in his work that came out even really early where, sure, he's worked at it and gotten better, but he started out from a pretty highly functioning place.

是的。

Yeah.

这确实是个很好的观点，引出了另一个方面，就是他对技术的运用，比如在数字影像方面不断突破极限。

Well, that's also a good point and brings up another facet, which is, his use of technology and of, like, he's been pushing the limits in terms of, digital imaging.

自九十年代以来，他执导的几乎每一部电影都使用了CGI来构建更多场景。

Just about every movie that he's done since the nineties, they've used CGI in order to construct more of the sets.

他不断使用绿幕和CGI，以完美呈现他心目中每个场景应有的样子。

There's just constantly green screens and constantly using CGI in order to perfect the vision of what he wants each set to look like.

即使你无法在拍摄时完成，也可以在后期制作中实现。

And that even if you can't get it done in camera that you do it in post production.

但我觉得这又回到了对技术的熟练运用以及愿意使用技术来实现个人期望或目标这一点上。

But I think that goes back a little bit to sometimes just a facility with technology and willingness to use technology in order to meet what one's expectations or ends are.

这是一个很好的例子。

So that was a good one.

你提到了基努·里维斯。

You mentioned Keanu Reeves.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我只是觉得，他儿子的冥王星和天王星也位于处女座。

I just was I think that his Pluto and Uranus are also, like, in Virgo for his son.

我知道。

I know.

我觉得冥王星无处不在。

I think it's Pluto everywhere.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

不过我不觉得是1968年。

I don't think it's 1968 though.

我觉得他可能是69年。

I I feel like he's maybe 69.

我不确定。

I don't know.

你别拿我说的话当真。

Don't quote me on that.

那关于

What about

因为我在查找冥王星和处女座相关名人时，看到了很多，但没找到太多像样的

Because I saw a lot of celebrities while I was looking with Pluto and Virgo obviously, but I couldn't find a lot of like

差远了。

Oh, way off.

1964年。

1964.

所以我不确定这是否是时间图，我记不清了，但这是基努·里维斯，他有

So I don't know if this is I can't remember if this is a time chart, but here's Keanu Reeves where he has

不。

No.

上升星座是天秤座14度。

Degree or 14 degree Ascendant in Virgo.

是的。

Yeah.

这是Astro Data Bank的数据。

That's what Astro Data Bank has.

对。

Right.

好的。

Okay.

所以是早上5点41分。

So it's 05:41AM.

我只是不知道这个数据的来源是什么。

I just don't know what the source of that is.

如果是关于评分的话。

If it's like what the rating is.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

但无论如何，太阳、水星、天王星、冥王星在处女座形成了一个非常紧密的合相。

So but regardless, it's Sun, Mercury, Uranus, Pluto, a pretty close tight conjunction in Virgo.

是的。

Yeah.

他的太阳和水星处于卡兹米状态。

He's got a Kazimi Sun Mercury.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我每次想到他时，总会觉得他是个非常谦逊的人，关于他的故事大多都是他如何谦逊，比如偶然住进了一家正在举办婚礼的酒店，却会主动为新人拍照，或者做其他类似的事情。

One of the things I always think about with him is just like he's an incredibly humble guy and most stories about him from people are just about him being really humble and sometimes accidentally being at the same hotel as a wedding, but then he'll take pictures with the couple as part of their photos or just doing other things like that.

我知道他经历过一些非常艰难的时刻，这些经历以不同方式让他变得谦逊，因为他生命中遭受过重大的损失。

I know he's had some really hard experiences that have humbled him in different ways because he suffered some major losses in his life.

所以这可能也是一个影响因素，但同时，作为一个名人，他经常被描述为非常谦逊。

So that may play a factor as role as well, but also just as a celebrity, somebody that oftentimes has spoke of as being very humble.

是的。

Yeah.

即使在采访中，他的肢体语言也很明显，他总是非常体谅和配合他人。

Even in interviews, his body language is, you know, he's very accommodating to the other people.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我认为他的谦逊是通过身体语言自然流露出来的。

The humility I think comes through physically in a physical way.

没错。

Right.

如果那张星盘是对的，那么这种能量就体现在他的上升星座上。

And and if that chart's right, that energy is there on his ascendant.

是的。

Yeah.

他是处女座上升。

With Virgo rising.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

这些是很好的关键词。

So those are good keywords.

我认为我们已经通过双鱼座和处女座的对比，提取出了一些非常棒且重要的内容。

I think we've done We've pulled out some really good important stuff with the the contrast with the the axis of, Pisces and Virgo.

让我们看看。

Let's see.

我们为什么不探讨一些其他的对比呢？

Why don't we get into some other contrasts?

我的意思是，我们当然会在下一期关于天秤座的节目中深入更多内容，但天秤座相对于处女座有什么修正性的特质吗？

I mean, that we'll definitely get into more in the next episode on Libra, but are there any contrasts or or what is the corrective quality that Libra has over what happens with with Virgo?

没有，因为处女座已经完美了。

None because Virgo is already perfect.

对。

Right.

完美已经

Perfection has been

我坐在这里正努力思考。

I'm sitting here trying to think.

所以一旦你达到某个程度的完美，之后就一路下滑了。

So it's like once you get to a certain point of per it's just all downhill.

在处女座就停止了。

Stops with Virgo.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我们就是巅峰。

We are the pinnacle.

我们是整个占星学的顶点。

We're the culmination point of all of astrology.

好的。

Okay.

这就是为什么水星既在处女座得尊荣，又在处女座拥有本命宫，因为接下来的六个星座都一路下滑。

That's why Mercury is both exalted and has his domicile in Virgo because it's all downhill for the next like six signs.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，如果他们的行星也这样呢？

Mean, what if their planet does that?

我只是说一下。

I'm just saying.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

但现实地说，我认为天秤座有能力将他们从周围世界观察到的所有知识付诸实践。

Realistically though, I think Libra has a good ability to take all that knowledge that they observe from the world around them and do something about it.

因为again，我们正从一个阴性星座转向一个阳性星座，嗯。

Because again, we're going from a feminine to a masculine sign Mhmm.

或者从被动到主动。

Or passive to active.

当然。

Sure.

你知道，他在描述这个特定的转变时非常出色，就像马克·琼斯那样。

You know, he's really good at this particular transition and describing it as Mark Jones.

真希望他现在能在这里。

I wish he was he was here right now.

我特别喜欢他描述的方式，你之前提到过，这是一种从一个时间段到下一个时间段的修正。

He's I love how he describes the you were talking about it earlier as a corrective between, you know, from one time to the next.

或者你也可以简单地把它看作是一种回应。

Or you could also just think of it as a response.

你知道，每个星座都是对前一个星座的回应，而且通常会朝着这个方向发展得更明显一些。

You know, each sign is a response to the one before it, and it tends to work a little bit more in that direction.

不过，我认为你也可以反过来理解。

Although, I think you could probably do it the other way.

但我认为我是处女座太阳星座的人。

But but I think I I I'm I'm a Virgo Sun person.

我的伴侣是天秤座太阳星座。

My partner is Libra Sun.

我认为我们关系中的一种修正方式，就是一种安抚或平复，我们可以称之为处女座的神经质吗？

And I think one of the correctives that happens in our relationship is just a kind of, I wanna say, a soothing or calming down of that are we allowed to call it Virgo neurosis?

我的意思是，当我们谈到对细节的关注时，这种倾向可能会变得非常尖锐。

Where there where that by that, what I mean is there if we were talking about the attention to detail, for instance, where that can get really pointed.

我的意思是，这会导致过度思考，甚至过度刺激，也就是焦虑。

I mean, it can cause overthinking, just overstimulation, which is anxiety, though.

没错。

Absolutely.

你想想看。

Think about it.

这其实就是思维飞速运转。

It's just mental racing.

我不确定天秤座确实能缓解焦虑，因为他们自己也会产生焦虑。

And I don't know that Libra is definitely improves on the anxiety because they can develop anxiety.

决策？我该怎么做？

Decision do I do?

但是

But

但毫无疑问，这种关系中确实存在一种矫正作用，我认为是一种 calming 的影响，或者至少是追求一种平和的氛围，即使天秤座未必真能达到这种状态——我不确定他们是否真的能做到，但这种意图是明确的。

but definitely, there's there's there's a corrective that comes through in terms of a, I think, a calming influence or at least a a seeking of a peaceful peaceful ground even if Libra doesn't ever achieve that, which I'm not sure they do, but definitely can be an intention.

我觉得天秤座也能把自己从决策中抽离出来，而处女座则完全不会。

I think Libra can also separate themselves from the decision, whereas Virgos are pretty much, no.

我就要这样，所以事情就必须这样办。

I want it this way, so it's gonna happen this way.

你知道的？

You know?

这是个很好的观点。

That's a good point.

就像空气对土元素的回应。

Like, the air response to Earth.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

让气氛轻松一点。

Lightening things up a bit.

你知道吗，我觉得你也可以谈谈从摩羯座到水瓶座的转变，水瓶座是如何真正地让气氛变得轻松的——当事物从摩羯座过渡到水瓶座时，你能感觉到那种沉重感开始减轻。

You know, I think you can talk about that transition from Capricorn to Aquarius too, how Aquarius kind of literally lightens things up just by when something moves from Capricorn to Aquarius, you can feel that density start to lift a bit.

是的。

Yeah.

因为我认为这其中一部分可以追溯到土象星座所关联的干燥特质，这种特质在做数字计算或统计某事物时非常有用，能清晰地看到某事在数字层面上的冷酷影响。

Because there's a I think some of that goes back to the the quality, the temperamental quality of like dryness being associated with Earth and that can be really good for like doing the numbers or, you know, the accounting of something and seeing like the cold heart effects of like how something adds up in terms of the numbers.

但某种程度上，这种纯粹看数字的方式可能会显得非常冷漠或缺乏情感，而一旦进入天秤座，关注点则更多转向如何让某事物变得更美，或更具艺术吸引力。

But there can be a very dispassionate kind of colder quality to that in some sense or it can come off as cold in some ways just looking at the numbers versus once you get to Libra, there's a focus a little bit more on sometimes like, you know, how can you make something, beautiful or how can you make it like artistically appealing.

而这种美感并不总是完全基于数字，还可能包含其他因素。

And that's not always something that's done purely based on the numbers, but there can be other elements to that.

这一点非常好，因为处女座更关注的是：我如何让这件事更有用？如何让它变得更好？它的实际应用是什么？

That's a great point because Virgo is more about how can I make this useful or how can I make it better or what's the practical application Mhmm?

为了它。

For it.

而天秤座可能会问：我们如何让它更漂亮？

Whereas Libra might ask, how can we make it prettier?

也许吧。

Maybe.

处女座眼中的美，是经历了漫长而艰难的过程才达成的。

Virgo's view of pretty is, it was the process long and hard to get through.

你为了得到你现在拥有的东西，付出了很多努力吗？

Did you work really hard to get to whatever you got?

很棒。

Cool.

这真美。

Now that's beautiful.

是的。

Yeah.

所谓完美，是指所有的错误都被彻底消除和纠正了吗？

What is this like perfection in terms of that all of the errors have been ironed out completely and sort of eradicated?

那样的话，就真的很美了。

Then then it's beautiful.

但天秤座更关注的是，这是否在美学上具有吸引力，几乎是一种不同的、近乎理智的层面，虽然‘理智’这个词不太准确。

But Libra is more, is this aesthetically appealing, almost in a different sort of almost intellectual sense, although intellectual isn't the right wing.

我在想一个合适的词来形容‘错误信号’，因为错误信号非常理性，但还是用‘概念性’好了。

I'm trying to think of the right term for like an error sign because the error signs are very intellectual, but leave it Conceptual.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

也许吧。

Maybe.

也许从形式上来说，比如形式的完美之类的东西。

Maybe in terms of like form, like a perfectness of form or something like that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当然。

Sure.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

所以我在想，有没有其他关于天秤座和处女座之间的对比，可以在这个时候作为水星星座和金星星座的补充提到。

So I'm trying to think of any other contrast between Libra versus Virgo that might be good to mention at this point as like a Mercury sign versus a Venus sign.

都是内行星吗？

Both inner planets?

是的。

Yeah.

我只想到了这些。

All I can think of.

而且两者都与地球和太阳有着密切的关系。

And both kind of have that close relationship to the Earth and the Sun.

另一个回应是，我们之前谈到的从内向转向——处女座的自我反省，到天秤座的外向转变，这是一个更注重关系的星座，会从他人那里获取反馈。

Well, and one of the responses is that from that turning inward that we were talking about earlier and the self examination of Virgo to the turning outward in Libra with more relational oriented sign and, you know, getting input from others.

也就是说，你已经完成了内在的工作和专注，努力完善你的技艺或完善自我，现在是时候向外延伸，与他人互动，进入下一个阶段了。

Like, it's now time you've done the the inner work and the focus and you've tried to perfect your craft or perfect you, and now it's time to reach out to others for the next stage of that and interact with others.

所以

So

是的。

Yeah.

这是个非常好的观点。

That's a really good point.

实际上，我刚才看我的笔记时，卡米尔在她对这个主题的总结中提到，天秤座通过引入他人的视角，并为处女座那种焦躁的能量带来和谐与平衡，从而修正了处女座的倾向。

That's actually I was looking at my notes and Camille wrote in her write up for this that Libra corrects Virgo by bringing in the perspective of another person and by introducing harmony and balance to the frenetic Virgo energy.

天秤座也明白，创作过程本质上是主观的、充满悖论的灰色地带，这纠正了处女座追求完美或把生活强行塞进整齐小盒子的倾向。

Libra also knows the creative process is subjective paradoxical gray areas correcting the Virgo tendency to aim for perfection or put life into tidy little boxes.

没错。

That's right.

我觉得，不管这是不是我的个人经验，还是普遍现象，那种希望事情非黑即白的倾向，我已经随着年龄增长、时间推移而超越了。

I think there I think there is something to I don't know if it's just my experience or if it's universal, but the tendency to want things to be a bit black and white, I've gotten past that just through age, you know, just through with time.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但毫无疑问，年轻时，这种倾向确实更明显，也更成问题。

But definitely when I was younger, that that was more of a more of a problem for sure.

那种非黑即白的思维方式，或者总是希望事情非常明确。

The black and white kind of thinking or the the wanting things to be really clear.

就像，几乎是希望人生有个操作手册，直接告诉你该怎么做、什么才是

Like like, almost just wanting there to be an instruction manual for life that just told you how to do it and what was

我曾经在很多个夜晚尖叫着渴望那份手册。

I have screamed many a night wishing for that manual.

我不得不自己编写一份，这很难。

I had to make my own, and it was hard.

但我不知道。

But I I don't know.

从很小的时候起，我就开始打破这种非黑即白的思维模式。

Shattering that black and white mentality from, like, a really young age for me personally.

我只是感到非常兴奋，因为我想，哇。

I just got really excited because I was like, wow.

现在整个世界都向我敞开，我可以到处寻找，深入探索那些细微而有趣的东西，我想。

Now the whole world is open, and I can just look for everything everywhere and just get into it and deep dive into those nitty gritty neat things, I guess.

是的

Yeah.

但天秤座确实更进一步，引入了其他相互冲突和挑战的观点，那种反方立场在天秤座中依然活跃。

So But Libra definitely takes that a step further by bringing in other perspectives that conflict and challenge and and, you know, the devil's advocate thing is alive and well in Libra.

是的

Yeah.

而且，没错。

And and Yeah.

但我觉得，这种思维模式确实需要这样的修正。

But that that's a nice corrective to that kind of thinking, I think.

另一种表达方式，不是用黑白，而是说处女座倾向于用0和1来思考。

Another way to phrase that instead of like black and white could be Virgo tends to think in terms of like ones and zeros.

二进制。

Binary.

是的

Yeah.

二进制，或者说是像代码一样。

Binary or like like code basically.

代码和以零和一或二进制的方式看待事物，与天秤座用颜料颜色之类的方式看待事物是不同的。

And code and looking at things in terms of like ones and zeros or binary is different than maybe Libra looking at things in terms of like paint colors or things like that.

哦，这挺酷的。

Oh, that's pretty cool.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这种表达方式。

I like the way that is phrased.

这么说在我脑子里特别通顺，尤其是金星就喜欢挑二十种不同的粉红色。

Like, that makes so much sense in my head, especially because Venus just loves, like, 20 different shades of pink to choose from.

对。

Right.

而这就像粉红色不同色度的一个光谱。

And that's not There's That's like a spectrum of the different shades of pink.

这种划分不像一和零那样清晰明确。

It's not as clear of a division as like a one and a zero.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但更像是一种渐进，或者说是一种色阶，但我一时想不起那个词了，它更像是一种尺度？

But instead, it's more of a progression or or more of a I can't think of the term for that of shades, but it's something that's more Scale?

渐变。

Gradient.

是的。

Yeah.

渐变。

Gradient.

对，就是这个词。

That's it.

它更加流畅，也更难分辨出你究竟在哪个点上真正从一种颜色或色阶切换到了另一种。

It's more flowing and it's harder to distinguish like at what point have you really switched from one shade or one color to another.

你其实并不清楚。

You don't really know.

这几乎变得有点主观，虽然没有犹豫，但在颜色渐变中何时真正发生变化的模糊性使得事情变得不那么明确。

It's something that almost becomes a little subjective and there's not ambivalence, but an ambiguity in the gradient of when things have actually changed that makes things less clear.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我要说，处女座已经创建了十六进制颜色代码。

Will say that Virgo has created hex codes.

对。

Right.

我们确保能够准确知道每种颜色的位置和具体值，并且它们彼此之间是分明的。

We made sure that we could tell exactly where every color is and what it is and that it's distinct from the other ones.

所以也许这就是金星在……

So maybe that's that's Venus in

处女座。

Virgo.

也许吧。

Maybe.

有可能。

Possibly.

是的。

Yeah.

我有这个。

I I've got that one.

金星在处女座。

Venus in Virgo.

但我有个有趣的轶事，关于处女座的十六进制代码和天秤座的颜色色调——今年二月初，我正在为一位占星师（我不会说出名字）做网站，他是个天秤座。

But this is I have a fun anecdote here both with the hex codes and the color shades in Libra, but I was working on a website for an astrologer I won't name who is a Libra, early in the February.

我 literally 为这个人做了21个版本的网站。

And I I literally did 21 versions of this website for this particular person.

他们曾经说过，我希望紫色能更欢快一些。

And and they said at one point, I would like the purple to be more jubilant.

我知道。

I know.

哇。

Wow.

我确实

And I I literally

我的意思是，类似色调和饱和度？

I mean, like, kind of hue saturation?

比如，你想要

Like, where

哪里

where do

你希望往哪个方向调整？

you wanna go with this?

我有十六进制代码。

I got the hex code.

我有大概十四个或二十个，或者不管多少个。

I I got, like, 14 or 20 of them or however many.

我有很多，把它们全都放在一起，然后我说，你告诉我哪一个是最欢快的。

I had a lot of them, I and put them all together on a page and I said, you tell me which one of these is the jubilant one.

不管怎样，从那以后，这段关系就有点破裂了。

Anyway, the relationship disintegrated a bit from there.

我知道。

I know.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这是处女座和天秤座之间的根本张力。

That is the fundamental tension between Virgo and and Libra.

我觉得这捕捉到了我们之前讨论的一些内容。

I think it captures some of what we were talking about.

当然。

Absolutely.

这真是一个完美的小故事，说实话。

That's a perfect anecdote, honestly.

我太喜欢这个了。

I love that.

说到代码，特别是二进制代码，有一个来自推特的例子，是丽莎·施因列入清单的，那就是凯瑟琳·约翰逊，她的太阳和水星都在处女座，尽管我们不知道她的出生时间。

Speaking of code and of binary code actually specifically, one of the examples that came in from Twitter and that Lisa Schein put on the list was Katherine Johnson who has the Sun and Mercury in Virgo, although we don't know her birth time.

但她是最先担任美国宇航局数学家的非裔女性之一，几年前上映的电影《隐藏人物》就是讲述她在NASA的那段经历。

But she was one of the first black women to work as a NASA mathematician and she was featured in that movie just a few years ago called Hidden Figures about her time at NASA.

但她在NASA任职期间对轨道力学的计算，对美国首次及后续载人航天飞行的成功至关重要。

But her calculations of orbital mechanics at NASA as an employee were critical to the success of the first and subsequent US crewed space flights.

她亲手写下了厚厚一摞又一摞的代码，推动了这些成就的实现——这些工作必须完美无缺，而这种完美在将人类送入太空或登月这类生死攸关的场景中，变得至关重要。

And she just wrote just like books and books of like code in order to make a lot of that stuff happen where it has to be perfect and and where that matter of of perfection actually becomes critical in terms of like life and death situations of, you know, sending people into outer space or sending people to the Moon.

这正是我们之前谈到的幕后工作的完美例证，同时也体现了这些工作往往不被看见、得不到应有赞誉。

And you have that perfect example of the behind the scenes work we were talking about and also the not receiving the accolades really, not not having that work seen.

对。

Right.

我们也不知道。

And we don't know.

但你知道，也许她对此感到自在，也许她并没有。

But, you know, maybe she was comfortable in that, maybe she wasn't.

我不确定。

I'm not sure.

但确实如此。

But, yeah.

我认为对我而言，更重要的是来自你实际共事之人所给予的欣赏。

I think for myself, it's more about the the appreciation from the people who you're actually working with comes in.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯，这让我想起了编辑这个概念，这正是编辑的真正含义。因为在过去几年里，无论是我自己的书，还是帮助别人写书，或者看到其他人如德米特拉写她们的书，我都见证了编辑过程中所投入的巨大工作量。

Well, and that just that takes me back to the idea of an editor, And that's exactly what an editor is because I've seen over the past few years, both in my book but also helping other people with their books or seeing other people write their books in the past few years like Demetra writing hers or other people, just the immense amount of work that goes into the editing process of something.

而有时候，你根本不可能完全按照他们投入的时间来支付报酬，甚至无法给予他们应得的赞誉，因为这种工作的本质决定了，你所付出的精力远远超过你能获得的任何回报。

And it's impossible to ever fully sometimes pay somebody as much as that time that they put into it might deserve or even to give them as much credit or accolades for that as it might deserve because just the very nature of the process of what you're doing almost requires more energy expenditure than you could ever possibly have remuneration for just in order to do that.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得处女座可能会被这种工作吸引，比如电影剪辑，或者我们刚才讨论的许多其他类型的工作，这些工作往往需要投入大量时间，极具挑战性。

And I think Virgos might be drawn to that kind of work where that becomes challenging, like the amount of hours you spend doing film editing, for instance, or any of lots of the kinds work we've been talking about.

我的意思是，成堆成堆的二进制代码，那些0和1。我大学时选过一门计算机科学课，但中途就退了，因为实在太难了。

I mean, piles and stacks of writing binary code, ones and zeros that I took a computer science class in college, and I dropped out halfway through because it was too difficult.

嗯。

Mhmm.

必须做到完美，否则程序根本无法运行。

It needs to be perfect or else it won't run at all.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

每一个细节都要做到极致。

Down to every last little detail.

当然。

Absolutely.

所以这需要承担很多东西。

So that's that's a lot to hold.

是的。

Yeah.

我甚至在想那些为《占星播客》工作的编辑们，比如负责音频或视频剪辑的编辑，还有我以前的编辑科皮克——他是奥斯汀的兄弟，我很幸运能和他合作多年，帮助播客起步。他不仅拥有出色的技术能力，能胜任自己的工作，还身兼数职，具备多种技能，更重要的是，他愿意花很长时间去打磨作品，同时也足够明智，知道何时该停下，什么时候已经足够好了。

I'm even thinking of my the the editor of, like, some of the people that work on The Astrology Podcast and and editors that edit the audio or the video and how much time they put into it or my old editor, Kopick, who was Austin's brother that I kind of lucked out working with him for many years and getting the podcast going because he just had this ability, both a great technical skill and ability to do what he does as well as wearing many different hats and having many different skill sets, but also the willingness and the ability to sit for long periods of time trying to perfect something, but also having enough wherewithal to know when to stop and when it was like good enough.

是的。

Yeah.

编辑能决定这个故事的成败，你知道的，在电影里或播客里都是如此。

And the editor can make or break this story, you know, in a film or in a podcast, I'm sure.

是的。

Yeah.

尤其是那种需要通过剪辑来塑造内容、引导叙事方向的播客。

Especially if it's the kind of podcast where you're editing the content to tell, to frame it in a certain way.

对。

Yeah.

很棒。

Cool.

因为你现在是个出版人，你知道这个过程——当有人，比如作者，或者干脆说创作者，创作出东西时，他们常常想做成一个宏大的版本，脑子里有个巨大的构想，比如拍一部电影，可能长达十个小时，然后就得有人坐下来告诉他们：不行，没人会看这么长的。

Because you're a publisher at this point and you know the process of like when somebody when an author or let's just say a creator or creative creates something, sometimes they wanna do this huge version of something and they have this huge idea in their head that once they put it into paper or something like that, like with a movie for example, it could be like ten hours long and then somebody has to sit them down and say, No, nobody's gonna watch this.

你需要删减，去掉这一段、那一段、还有这一部分，才能让内容变得易懂、易消化、易于被观众接受。

You need to cut it down and we need to remove this part, this part, and this part in order to make this consumable or easily digestible and and palpable to an audience.

但回到你之前提到的一个观点，关于这类工作的重要性，我们刚刚已经描述过，它仍然是种看不见的劳动。

But going back to one of your earlier points with that particular type of work and with how important we just kind of described that it really is, it's unseen work still.

而且这份工作也得不到应有的认可。

And it's also unappreciated.

我的意思是，当颁发编辑奖和奥斯卡奖的时候，有多少人会感到无聊，然后去厨房溜达呢？

I mean, how many people get bored and, like, go to the kitchen when they do the editor awards and the Academy Awards?

事实上，上一届不是把它们删掉了吗？

In fact, didn't they cut them out at the last one?

我觉得那就是被删掉的奖项之一。

I think that's one of the ones they cut.

好吧。

Okay.

因为这不够刺激，人们会想：这些人都谁啊？

Because it's not as exciting because people are like, who are these people?

你知道的。

You know?

但有趣的是，处女座的这种特质——总是不够重视自己，也不够重视这份工作。

But but also interesting that quality in Virgo of not always valuing the self enough and not valuing that work enough.

也许这就是处女座被吸引到那种幕后工作的原因。

Maybe that is why Virgo gets drawn to that kind of work that's a little bit behind the scenes.

但处女座该如何学会足够重视自己的工作呢？我觉得这是个好问题。

And but but how does Virgo learn to value their own work enough, I think, is a is a good question.

通过关注他们非处女座的星盘位置。

By looking to their non Virgo placements.

这就是我这么做的原因。

That's why I've done it.

对。

Right.

或者通过朋友的鼓励之类的方式，这可能会帮助他们意识到这一点。

Or or through encouragement from their their friends or something like that that might help them to like, you know, recognize that.

这让我想起，你提到过编辑工作常常是默默无闻、不被认可的。

That reminds me, you mentioned like editors and how that's often like unsung work and not recognized.

在过去十年里，比如《星球大战》和乔治·卢卡斯的例子中，很多人都提到了玛西亚·卢卡斯——乔治·卢卡斯的前妻，她剪辑了第一部《星球大战》。

And that's been one of things over the past decade, for example, with like Star Wars and George Lucas, there's a lot of people pointing to Marcia Lucas, George Lucas's ex wife who edited like the first Star Wars.

很多人试图争论说，正是后期制作拯救了这部电影，因为最初的剪辑版本并不好，如果没有她，这部电影可能不会如此成功，但她将这些素材拼凑在一起，让影片得以成立。

And a lot of people try to argue like saved the film in post production where the first cuts of it weren't very good or it wouldn't have been as successful, but she was able to cobble together this movie and make it work.

然后这部电影取得了巨大的成功。

And then it went on to be hugely successful.

但这就又是一个例子，主角——导演——往往获得了所有的赞誉。

But then it's like that's another example where it's like the front person, the director, you know, kinda gets all the accolades.

是的。

Yeah.

剪辑是一项艰巨的工作，却得不到应得的认可。

Editing's a tough job, and it does not get the recognition that it deserves.

这毫无疑问。

That is for sure.

我有个朋友是电影学校的剪辑师，这让我很有趣地看到，剪辑需要投入多少努力和工作。

Having like an editor film school friend, It's kind of interesting to see how much effort and work it takes to go into it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但确实根本得不到认可。

But it really is just not recognized.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

但它确实非常重要。

So But it can be very important.

所以这是一个很好的总体原型：拥有一项特殊技能，而这项技能可能不会得到充分认可，但它很重要，因为正是这类技能让世界得以正常运转，你们就像是某些情况下隐藏的超级英雄，能够确保事情按时进行，或让城市正常运转，尽管这些并不为每个人所见。

So that's a good overarching sort of archetype and thing of having a special skill and it's a skill that you might not be fully recognized for, but it's one that's important because it's the thing that kind of like keeps the world working and you're sort of like the hidden like superheroes in some instances that are able to keep things running on time or keep cities running even if that's not something that everybody sees visually.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

All right.