《挑战者》性感、热辣，令人无法抗拒

好吧

What okay.

不管是什么时候

Whenever it was.

我丈夫当时不在家

My husband was out of the home thing.

不对

No.

是周一晚上

Was Monday night.

你说得对

You're right.

抱歉

Sorry.

是周一晚上

Was Monday night.

这样我儿子就不用看到这一幕了。

So my son didn't have to see it.

我当时就想，我希望他别回家，因为我不想让那种氛围影响他。

And I was like, I I want him to stay out of the house because I don't want the energy.

但他在外面待得太久了，我就开始担心他是不是打架了？

But he stayed out for long enough that I was like, has he gotten in a fight?

你知道吗？

You know?

比如，我会不会接到电话然后不得不去警察局？

Like, am I gonna get a call and have to go down to police station?

我真的不能再忍受这种悬而未决的状态了。

And I just I can't live in this in between anymore.

我需要76人队的赛季赶紧结束。

I need the sixers to be over.

我需要现在是挑战者队的赛季。

I need it to be challenger season.

我需要现在是网球赛季。

I need it to be tennis season.

我们需要为诺瓦克·德约科维奇的胜利疯狂，因为我讨厌他。

I need us to be going insane about Novak Djokovic winning because I hate him.

是啊。

Yeah.

我就是讨厌他。

I I just do.

你还记得五到七年前我总拿德约科维奇是史上最佳来逗你吗？

Do you remember five or seven years ago when I would tease you about Djokovic as as the greatest of all time?

记得。

Yeah.

你

Do

不太在意？

you Not really caring?

是啊。

Yeah.

你现在还那么想吗？

Do you still feel that way?

他们不是费德勒。

I They're not Federer.

他们不是纳达尔。

They're not Nadal.

他们也不是德约科维奇。

They're not Djokovic.

你知道的，乔舒亚·康纳饰演的角色帕特里克，在层级上要低得多。

They are you know, Joshua Conner's character, Patrick, is significantly lower down the chain.

但你会有这种感觉。

But you get the impression that he has the talent.

就像，这两个人是贯穿整个故事的一对终生好友。

Like, these two guys the frame of the story is that they're two lifelong friends.

他们基本上是在青少年时期在寄宿学校相识的，然后一起长大。

They met basically at boarding school when they were teenagers, and they've grown up together.

他们青少年时期一起打过双打。

They played doubles together at juniors.

我们在电影早期看到一个非常激动人心的场景，他们你来我往地击球并赢得了奖杯。

We see them in a very exciting scene early in the film, you know, going shot for shot and winning a cup.

他们之间有一种非常现代的性关系。嗯。

And they have this very kind of modern sexual relationship Mhmm.

他们之间存在某种性张力。

Where they are there's some there's a sexual energy between them.

有种流动性。

There's a kind of fluidity.

不过，他们自己意识到这点了吗？

Though, are they aware of it?

对。

Right.

但看起来他们之间存在一种身体上的联系。

But there but there there is looks like a physical connection.

他们彼此吸引。

They're drawn to each other.

而且他们确实互相吸引。

And they're they're drawn to each other.

而且整部电影中，网球就像大多数时候性爱的直接隐喻。

And and in the way that throughout the movie, Tennis, it's just like is a one to one stand in for sex most of the time.

你其实看不到太多真实的性爱场面

You don't actually see a ton of actual sex

几乎没有。

Hardly.

与其他卢卡·瓜达尼诺的电影相比。

Compared to any other Luca Guadagnino movie.

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为这是非常刻意的。

Which I think is very purposeful.

你知道吗？

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

但你会看到很多网球场景。

But you see a lot of tennis.

对。

Yes.

我想...我认为你看到的是他们之间那种...那种磁力般的物理表现。

I think I think what you but I think what you see is, like, the physical representation of their the the the the magnetism that Yeah.

以及他们的亲密感。

And their closeness.

你懂吗？

You know?

比如，当他们赢得双打比赛时，我想帕特里克会跳进阿特的怀里。

Like, when they win that doubles tournament, I think Patrick jumps into Art's arms.

对。

Right.

他们拥抱的场景，我们稍后会在电影中看到。

And they're hugging, which is an image we'll see later in the film.

确实。

Sure.

你知道，当他们互相调侃时，他们会有很多肢体接触。

You know, when they are just giving each other shit, they're kind of touching each other a lot.

是啊。

Yeah.

你知道，他们之间有那种

You know, they have that kind

类似打闹的男性互动能量，同时又带有性暗示的潜台词。确实。

of, like, rough housing guys energy that also has a sexual undercurrent Sure.

这对电影至关重要，因为正如卢卡·瓜达尼诺告诉编剧的那样，这部电影就像一个所有边都相互接触的三角恋关系。

That is just so important to the movie because the movie is, you know, as Luca Guadagnino told the screenwriter, like, a love triangle where all the sides touch.

没错。

Right.

你懂吧？

You know?

试图弄清楚在任何特定时刻是谁在吸引谁，这本身就带着一种令人兴奋的感觉。

And there is something kind of exciting about trying to figure out who's drawing who towards who at any given time.

随着剧情展开，我们看到塔希巧妙地利用他们之间的这种联系，在某种程度上相互制衡，以此决定她将如何多方面地获取权力。

As the movie plays out, we see this amazing thing where Tashi sort of uses their connection against each other in some ways to determine how she's going to seek power in many ways.

嗯。

Mhmm.

不过我们该聊聊奥康纳和迈克·费斯特了，因为

But let's talk about O'Connor and and Mike Feist because

我的伙计们。

My guys.

你知道，我们最近刚聊过乔舒亚·奥康纳，因为他主演了电影《Laquie Mera》。

You know, we just talked about Joshua O'Connor recently because he's starring in the film Laquie Mera.

之前对他并不算特别熟悉，但他在那部电影里确实很出彩。

Hadn't really was not really super familiar with him before that, but he really popped in that movie.

你看完《王冠》那几季了吗？

Did you ever make it to those seasons of The Crown?

过去七天里看的？

It in the last seven days?

我可能...上次聊这个时我断片了，记不清你到底看没看。

I could I I blacked out from the last time we talked about this, whether you watched it.

没看。

No.

我...我看完第二季就不打算继续追了。

I I finished season two, and I won't be picking it back up.

那可是你的损失。

To your loss.

我还有太多其他电视剧要看，比如《X战警97》，这部我超级喜欢。

I have too many other television shows like X Men 97 to continue watching, which I'm I'm greatly enjoying.

我只是想正式声明一下。

I'd just like to say for the record.

乔什·奥康纳在这部电影里表现太棒了。

Josh O'Connor in this movie is incredible.

他简直令人惊叹。

He is astounding.

我在这部电影里太喜欢他了。

I I loved him in this movie.

我爱帕特里克这个角色。

I love the Patrick character.

电力十足。

Electric.

他就是个彻头彻尾的混蛋。

He is a fucking dirtbag.

而且与他以往扮演的几乎所有角色都截然不同。

And really incredibly different from almost every character he's played.

就像一个汗津津的美国傻大个，但又不完全是那种傻气。

Just like a a sweaty American doofus, but not a but not a doofus.

非常忧郁又精明，就像你说的那样。

Very sad savvy, just as you said.

就是有点人渣气质。

Just kind of a dirtbag.

是啊。

Yeah.

一个胡子拉碴、邋里邋遢的渣男。

An unshaven, uncleansed fuck boy.

这就是他正在演绎的角色本质。

That's who that's literally what he's playing.

而且他的性取向是流动的，嗯。

Like and he is he is sexually fluid Mhmm.

他无时无刻不想着占别人便宜。

And he is trying to take advantage of people at all times.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

这部电影里镜头无数次如此贴近他的脸庞。

He the camera is so close on his face so many times in this movie.

卢卡显然对乔什·奥康纳着迷，你能感觉到他在镜头前倾身的那种表演张力，因为他真的对这个角色乐在其中。

Luca is clearly obsessed with Josh O'Connor, and Josh O'Connor is you can feel him leaning into the lens in the movie because he's really having a lot of fun with this character.

从某些方面来说，他有点像布拉德·皮特那个角色——总在不停地吃东西。

He has kind of the Brad Pitt part in some ways insofar as, like, he's just kinda always eating something.

他嘴里永远塞着食物，这个角色身上充满了各种明显的阳具隐喻。

He just always has something in his mouth, and there are a lot of obvious phallic illusions going on with the character.

但你知道，卢卡的很多电影都在探讨欲望吞噬这个主题，关于那些不断进食的人，他们...

But he's just like you know, a lot of Luca's movies are about consumption and people who, like, eat, and they they

这确实是卢卡电影里反复出现且显而易见的欲望隐喻。

It it it is another very recurring and obvious metaphor for desire Yes.

以及饥饿、食欲，以及这些欲望的不同表达方式。

And and hunger and appetite and and the different ways that that can be expressed.

那条紫色短裤非常重要。

The purple shorts are really important.

它们确实如此。

They they just are.

这部电影的所有服装都是由乔纳森·安德森设计的，他是路易威登的设计师，也有自己的品牌。

So all of the costumes in this movie are done by Jonathan Anderson, who is the designer of Louie Wei and also his own line.

他和乔什·奥康纳是好朋友。

But he and Josh O'Connor are buds.

乔什·奥康纳经常出现在路易威登的秀场上，我想他几乎只穿他设计的衣服，或者经常穿他设计的衣服。

So and Josh O'Connor is always at the Louiewe shows, and I think is pretty much exclusively dressed by him or frequently dressed by him.

他在首映礼上就穿着那套衣服，我当时也在场看到了这部电影。

He was wearing it at the premiere where I saw the film.

所以我真的理解并欣赏乔什·奥康纳在电影中的穿着以及这些服装的运用。

And so I there is a there's a real understanding and an appreciation also of what Josh O'Connor can wear and how it's used in the movie.

而且，再次强调，就像大腿裸露的程度，这可不是你经常能看到的男性身体部位，你知道的，考虑到流行趋势和大多数男性通常的穿着偏好。

And and again, just like the sheer amount of thigh, which is like not a male body part that you see that often, just, you know, given trends and how most You men like to

想要更多男性大腿

want more male thighs

出现在你视野中。

in your eyes.

这很有冲击力。

It's powerful.

好吧。

Okay.

你知道吗，你注意到这一点了吗？

Do you know, like, it you notice it?

这是你想看到的一面吗？

Side that you'd like to see?

嗯，我是说，保罗·麦斯卡真的很努力在推动这种风格。

Well, I mean, Paul Meskel is, like, really trying to make that work a lot.

他确实喜欢那样。

He does like that.

但我只是想说，这些，你知道的，欧洲男孩们，大洋彼岸的男孩们，他们懂。

But I'm just saying, like, these, know, the Euro boys, the boys from across the pond, they understand.

他们是

They're a

稍微舒服一点。

little more comfortable.

是啊。

Yeah.

爱尔兰真是赶上好时候了。

And What a time for Ireland.

这确实很有效果。

And it it really does work.

而且卢卡·瓜达尼诺导演也深谙其中奥妙。

And it's also, like, the camera also and Luca Guadagnino also understands the power of it.

你说过，他就像个邋遢鬼，但却有种难以抗拒的魅力。

And you said, you know, he's like a unwashed sleazepot, but also in an incredibly appealing way.

这简直是个专业级的表现，没错。

Like, that is that's a pro Yeah.

在这部电影的价值体系里。

In the in the values of the movie.

他非常自信且迷人。

He's very confident and charming.

我是说，电影还特意强调'你那儿很大'。

I mean, also the movie goes out of its way to be like, you've got a big dick.

这个点在电影里反复出现了好几次。

Like, that comes up, like, multiple times in the movie.

电影对两种男性气质的暗示非常明显，艺术派和帕特里克分别代表了这两种模式。

There's some some very clear insinuations about, like, basically the two modes of masculinity in the movie, and art and Patrick represent those two modes.

但奥康纳简直是为这个角色而生的。

But O'Connor is just, like, very up for this part.

不是每个演员都能驾驭这个角色，因为他英俊，但不是那种传统意义上的英俊。

Not every actor can pull off this part because he's handsome, but not, like, classically handsome.

他五官鲜明，而且必须带点粗犷气质。

You know, he has big features, and he has to be a little bit Right.

既有点邋遢，又同时具有吸引力

Gross and a little bit appealing at the same

而且他们显然用了替身，但所有镜头都是亲自打网球的。

And it is also they obviously have doubles, but they are all, like, playing tennis.

他们的动作戏非常多。

They're it is they're very physical.

没错。

Yes.

他们的身材在短裤下展露无遗，而且动作戏也很多，这并不常见。

Like, their bodies are on display, obviously, with the shorts, but also just in terms of moving around, and that's not typically.

我是说...确实不常见。

I mean No.

你得有能力完成那种工作。

You gotta be able to do that work.

是啊。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

但他通常演的是莎士比亚戏剧，或者慢悠悠地寻找伊特鲁里亚文物，你知道的，就是那种特别慢的节奏。

But he typically does, like, you know, Shakespeare and walking slowly to look for an Etruscan artifact, you know, like, really slowly.

毕竟，神赐的石头可不能急着找。

Like, you can't rush the divine rock.

对啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

而且他们都提到过，他们参加了集训营，所有人都进行了网球训练。

So and they both talked about how like, they they went to boot camp, and they all did, like, tennis training.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后，你知道的，就是排练。

And then, you know, rehearsals.

有一天他们用某种机器测量腹肌力量，赞达亚是三人中表现最好的。

And there was there was one day of doing, like, some sort of machine that measured their ab strength and Zendaya, one of the three of Yeah.

然后他们全都表示，哦，不。

And then they were all like, oh, no.

我们该怎么赶上赞达亚的水平？

What do we do to keep up with Zendaya?

但这要求很高，和平时很不一样。

But but that is that's demanding and very different from the typical.

这是电影中很重要的一部分。

It's a huge part of the movie.

如果你不相信他们是运动员，那整部电影就立不住了。

And if you don't buy them as athletes, then it doesn't work.

而且是非常特定类型的运动员，几周前有人在我看完电影后问我，这部电影真的像人们说的那么性感吗？

And a very specific kind of athlete, somebody a few weeks ago had asked me after I'd seen the movie, is the movie actually as sexy as people are saying it is?

我当时就说，如果你喜欢瘦子的话，那确实如此。

And I was like, it is if you like skinny people.

你懂吧？

You know?

这是一部关于瘦子的电影。

This is a movie of skinny people.

这倒是实话。

That's true.

可能没人比迈克·费斯特更瘦了。

Maybe no one more skinny than Mike Feist.

他是个瘦弱的男孩。

He's a he's a skinny boy.

是啊。

Yeah.

你知道吗？

You know?

我是说，网球运动员也差不多是这样。

I mean, that's also that's true of tennis a little bit.

完全同意。

Totally.

他们是...

They're I

我觉得选角很合适。

think they're well cast.

他们看起来就是那种类型的人。

They look like the kind of person.

你很少看到身高1米98、体重127公斤的人打职业网球。

You don't see a lot of guys who are, like, six six two eighty playing professional tennis.

这确实不是典型体型。

That's not really an archetype.

但我认为费斯特是个非常有趣的角色

But I think Feist is a really interesting one.

他当时突然崭露头角

He burst onto the scene.

我们之前从未在斯皮尔伯格几年前翻拍的《西区故事》中见过他

We've never really seen him before in Spielberg's West Side Story remake a few years back.

嗯

Mhmm.

他在那部电影里表现得太出色了

He is on fire in that movie.

他就是那种能跳出银幕抓住你眼球的存在

He is, like, the thing that jumps off the screen.

没错

Yeah.

但自那之后他就再没什么作品了

And he hasn't really done anything since then.

他其实出演了电影《摩托车手》，这部电影原本计划去年

He's actually appeared he appears in the movie The Bike Riders, which was meant to come out last

上映。

year.

真令人兴奋。

Exciting.

他在那部电影中扮演重要角色。

And he has an important part in that movie.

我觉得他表现不错，但与《西区故事》或这部电影中的气质截然不同。

And I thought he's pretty good, but a very different kind of energy from what we saw in West Side Story or this movie.

在这部电影里，他有点像纳菲。

In this movie, he's kind of the Nafe.

就是那种天真无邪的角色。

Like, he's like the innocent one.

他是那个在字面意义上没有帕特里克那样优势的人。

He's the one who doesn't quite have the leg up literally that Patrick has.

到电影结尾时，他某种程度上成为了Tashi世界中的一枚棋子。

He becomes a kind of a pawn of Tashi's world by the end of the film.

但我觉得他在这部电影里表现得也非常出色。

But I thought he was very, very good in this too.

而且他带来了一种特定的、类似'beta能量'的气质，直到他不再需要为止。

And as, like, bringing a certain kind of, like, a beta energy until he doesn't have to anymore.

是啊。

Yeah.

嗯，他确实还保持着与艺术之间那种可感知的联系。

Well, he also still does bring the palpable connection with art Yes.

与Josh O'Connor之间以及与Tashi之间都是如此。

With Josh O'Connor as well as with Tashi.

而且能展现出那两人之间那种微妙的关系，这需要细腻的表演功力。

And can, like, the types of relationship between those two people, which is nuanced work.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你可以像个局外人那样，同时渴望着他们两个人。

And you could just, like, be a wallflower and be pining for both of them.

但他从他们身上看到了不同的东西，并且能够传达出所有这些。

But he sees different things from them and is able to communicate all of that.

是的。

Yeah.

而且电影里有个有趣的阶段，帕特里克和塔希在一起。嗯。

And he seems also there's an interesting period in the film where Patrick and and Tashi are together Mhmm.

在大学期间。

During college.

而他正试图插足他们之间。

And he's trying to worm his way in between them.

他还试图守护塔希的感情。

And he's trying to guard Tashi's affections.

帕特里克和塔希是一对，但塔希和阿尔特一起去了斯坦福。

Patrick and Tashi are together, but Tashi and Art go to Stanford together.

没错。

Exactly.

所以他们经常在一起。

So they spend time together.

他们是朋友。

They're friends.

他们一起吃饭，但他在用餐时不断暗中贬低他。

They're they eat together, but he is undercutting him to her while they're having a meal.

然后帕特里克来看他，他就在帕特里克面前贬低她。

And then Patrick comes to visit him, and he is undercutting her to him.

他在玩一个小把戏。

And he's playing a little game.

这是电影中他唯一一次真正在玩小把戏。

It's the only time when he's really playing a little game in the movie.

是啊。

Yeah.

他如愿以偿得到了想要的一切。

And he gets exactly what he wants.

在短短八分钟里，他完美演绎了恶魔的角色。

And he's very effective at just being the devil for, like, eight minutes.

而其余时间里，另外两人才是真正的恶魔。

And the the other two are really the devils for the remainder of the time.

制造混乱的核心人物其实是帕特里克和塔希。

Mean, the chaos agents are Patrick and Tashi.

但正是他作为故事撬棍般的存在，才真正揭开了故事的序幕。

But the one moment and he is the person who gets to be the the crowbar in the story, who kinda breaks the story open.

因为如果他没有在电影那段情节中做出那些举动，对吧。

Because if he doesn't do the thing that he does in that period of the movie Right.

我们就看不到塔希和阿尔特共同生活的样子。

We don't see Tashi and and Art and their life together.

所以我不想低估他，认为他只是个被她和被他吸引的温柔男孩。

So I don't wanna undersell him as only being, like, the soft boy who's, you know, attracted to her and attracted to him.

他在电影中确实有一定的自主权，这种力量很强大，而费斯特在那个时刻真的让你信服了。

Like, he does have a little bit he has agency in the movie that is powerful, and Feist really, like, sells you in that moment.

因为你肯定遇到过——我不确定你是否遇到过那种专门试图拆散你和另一个男人的家伙，但这种事在世界上确实存在。

Because you've I'm sure you've encountered I don't if you've encountered a guy like that specifically trying to break you up with another guy, but that is a thing that happens in the world.

是啊。

Yeah.

总有人会出现。

People come along.

那种观察等待的人，其实更多是在观察而非等待。

Person who is watching and waiting, and it's more watching than waiting, actually.

当时机成熟时，他们早已准备就绪。

Just the and when things come together, they're ready.

他知道何时出击。

He knows how to strike.

没错。

Yeah.

这部电影里确实没有太多其他表演。

There's really not many other performances in this movie.

边线裁判的表演非常有趣。

There's a very funny performance from a line judge.

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

谁是赞达亚的私人助理？

Who is Zendaya's personal assistant?

没错。

Yes.

他表现得很好。

He's very good.

是啊。

Yeah.

另外，还有个网球事实核查我完全不在乎。

There's also Also, I another tennis fact check that I don't care at all about.

但我觉得挑战赛的线审穿得没有他那么光鲜亮丽，就是那位线审。

But I I don't feel that line judges at challenger's events are dressed as beautifully as as he is, as the line judge.

好吧。

Okay.

是啊。

Yeah.

嗯，他的仪容也打理得一丝不苟。

Well, he's also very very well manicured.

他的发型非常棒。

His hair is wonderful.

对啊。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我们在挑战者赛事开头遇到的那位女性，也是故事中过去的一部分。

There's also the woman that we encounter at the beginning of the Challenger event who is a part of the past in the story.

但名单非常短，嗯哼。

But just a very it's a very short list Mhmm.

角色名单。

Of characters.

还有一位帕特里克在Tinder上约会的女性，那段情节非常非常有趣。

There's a woman that Patrick goes on a Tinder date with, which is a very, very funny sequence.

但对于这样规模的电影，据报道预算高达5000万美元，对这种类型来说非常昂贵，却只有三个主要角色，我一时想不出太多类似的例子。

But for a movie that has this scale, for a movie that is a $50,000,000 movie reportedly, that's the budget, which is very expensive for a movie like this, to only really have three characters is I I couldn't think of a lot of comparisons.

对于如此宏大且气势磅礴的作品来说，这种情况并不常见

It's not common for something that is this big and this powerful that feels this big and this powerful

没错。

Right.

老实说，我们几乎没有与其他角色共度时光。

To have nobody else that we spend our time with, honestly.

确实如此。

That's true.

他们毫无深度可言。

They have no depth.

嗯，但你其实是在和许多不同的版本打交道。

Well, you are spending time with a lot of different versions Mhmm.

这些角色之间，考虑到剧情中频繁的时间跳跃、背叛和联盟转换，我认为这种精简处理很明智。

Of these characters, and I think it it's smart to scale it if you're gonna do as much time jumping and and, like, backstabbing and alliance shifting as you do throughout.

光是跟上他们三个的节奏就已经够呛了。

Like, it's enough to try to keep up with the three of them.

你觉得电影里这么多时间跳跃的情节会让人感到困惑吗？

Do you think it is confusing at all how much of the time hopping is going down in the movie?

不会。

No.

只有一处让我有点跟不上。

There's only one moment where I got lost.

我甚至不觉得自己有困惑过

I don't even think I was lost.

但有几次我确实觉得需要更清楚的解释来说明发生了什么

But there were a couple times where I was like, I need a better explanation for what's going on.

嗯

Mhmm.

然后最终那些时间跳跃的部分确实都讲清楚了

And and then eventually, like, the time hopping did get there.

所以我可能希望节奏能再快一点。

So maybe I wanted it to get there a bit faster.

也许我觉得它的节奏不是特别完美，但我并没有感到困惑。

Maybe I thought it was, you know, not totally well paced, but I wasn't confused.

如果要说的话，当看到第十四个时间提示卡精确标注时间时，我心想：冷静点。

If anything, I was like, by the fourteenth title card being like, here's exactly what time this I was like, calm down.

我在认真看呢。

I'm paying attention.

你知道吗？

You know?

就像亚马逊某个高管突然说：'我们需要再加一个场景。'

Like, whatever studio exec at Amazon was just like, we need another one.

我确实认为当时的情况就是那样。

I do think that was what was going on.

我知道，但我想让亚马逊的所有人都明白，我...我在集中注意力。

I I know, but I just want everyone at Amazon to know that, like, I I'm focusing.

电影中有几个瞬间——我们现在要开始深入讨论具体场景，即将进入剧透环节了。

There are a couple of moments in the film, and we're we're we're entering into spoiler territory as we start to dig into specific scenes more deeply.

但有个场景转到辛辛那提时，塔什和阿尔特那顿关键晚餐戏，我当时就懵了：这到底是哪年哪月？

But there's a moment when we go to Cincinnati, and we have this critical meal between Tashi and Art where I was like, where what time when what year is this?

然后亚特兰大还有另一个场景

And then there's another moment in Atlanta

嗯

Mhmm.

帕特里克和塔希相遇的那场戏让我困惑，这到底是哪一年发生的事？

Where Patrick and Tashi have an encounter where I was like, what year is this?

而且这些场景都不在电影的核心时间线上。

And, like, these are those are moments that are not in the core timelines of the movie.

就像你说的，电影有个核心时间线，大约是2006年、2008年，然后是2019年。

There's, like, a core timeline, as you said, this sort like, 2006, 2008, and then 2019.

这些是影片的主要时间节点。

Those are sort of the main moments of the film.

另外那两个场景感觉像是发生在...

Those other two moments feel like they're happening.

太空中。

In space.

对。

Yeah.

就像是在问，那是2013年吗？

It's like, was that 2013?

是2016年吗？

Was it 2016?

你知道，电影里其实散布着时间标记点，但像这样不断跳前又闪回的叙事方式确实挺少见的

You know, like, they they they there are mile markers throughout the movie, but it's unusual for something like this to skip ahead and then go back and skip ahead and

关键在于这是一部关于职业网球运动员的电影，所以他们总在路上奔波。

go And and the trick is that this is a movie about professional tennis players, so they are always on the road.

故事场景大多发生在连锁酒店、Applebee's餐厅这类场所。

And it is set in a series of hotels and Applebee's and and restaurants and other places.

所有人始终处于流动状态，没有固定环境——我觉得这既是特色所在，也凸显了这三个角色奇特又有趣的特质。

So there aren't any kinda outside at everyone and is in flux all of the times, which is I think a feature for the most part and then another aspect of what is so strange and interesting about these three people.

但对于那些没有明确时间标记的闪回片段，你会有点懵：

But for the flashbacks that aren't granted in time, you're kinda like, wait.

这是哪里？

Where am I?

我们是在新罗谢尔吗？

And it's like, are we in New Rochelle?

这是亚特兰大吗？

Is this Atlanta?

我以为新罗谢尔的大部分场景其实是在亚特兰大拍的。

I thought that much of New Rochelle actually was Atlanta.

不过没关系。

But that's okay.

可能确实是这种情况

That may have been the case where

没关系。

That's okay.

他们

Where they

拍摄的地方。

shot it.

我刚刚忘记说了，那个内战场景其实是在纽约拍的。嗯。

I just forgot to say that, like, this civil war scene with was, like, in New York Mhmm.

或者不管那个开场场景是在哪里，那应该是在亚特兰大。

Or wherever that opening thing, that, like, that was Atlanta.

我当时就想，我知道那是哪个街区。

And I was like, I know what block that is.

你是说

You mean

来自电影《内战》

from the film Civil

？

War?

对。

Yes.

那里没有

There's not a

电影《挑战者》里没有内战场景。

civil war sequence in the film Challengers.

所以这算是一种内战。

So it is a kind of civil war.

是啊。

Yeah.

是的是的，这是一种不同的内战。

It is it is it's a different kind of civil war.

顺便说一句，我们让Bobby把你刚才说的那段剪进了《内战》那期节目。

And one that I the record, we have Bobby cut that note you just made into the Civil War episode.

他们甚至懒得换掉奥本大街的路牌。

They didn't even bother changing the Auburn Auburn Avenue sign.

我当时就觉得，那就是亚特兰大。

I was like, I that's Atlanta.

没错。

Yeah.

不过没关系。

But that's okay.

没关系。

That's alright.

显然这里也是亚特兰大。

This was apparently Atlanta too.

你是想让自由女神像出现在那个场景中间吗？

Did you just want the Statue Of Liberty in the middle of that scene?

比如，他们应该怎么做才合适？

Like, what what should they have done?

我不知道。

I don't know.

他们得在预算内

They gotta make

拍这些电影。

these movies on a budget.

我是说，亚特兰大所有人都很高兴这些电影对当地经济的贡献，但所有场景也开始看起来千篇一律了。

Mean think everybody in Atlanta is very happy for the contributions to the local economy, but also it's all starting to look the same.

最搞笑的是《极盗车神》，我就纳闷：他们为什么要在亚特兰大抢银行？

The funniest version of that is baby driver where I'm like, why are they robbing these banks in baby in Atlanta?

为什么这部电影要设定在亚特兰大？

Like, why is this movie set in Atlanta?

设定在亚特兰大是因为他们只能在那里拍摄。

It's set in Atlanta because that's where they had to shoot the movie.

总之我觉得只要你像看普通电影那样专注，最终也不会太混乱，但这部电影的独特之处部分在于它的快节奏。

Anyway, I think it's not it's not really that confusing ultimately if you're just paying attention the way you would to a normal film, but it's unusual because in part because of how fast the film is moving.

当你在时间线上来回穿梭，不断被这些能量爆点冲击时——

So when you're sliding back and forth through time and you're getting constantly hit with these needle drops of energy.

懂吗？

You know?

那种感觉就像...虽然我从未吸过可卡因，但每次音乐切换时，确实有种刚吸完一剂的上头感

It kinda it kinda feels like you're just I I I'll tell you what, I've never used cocaine, but it it kinda has that, like, I just did a line feeling every time the

音乐一响起来。

music drops.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且，我是说，配乐至少占了电影一半分量。

And Well, I mean, the score is not half the movie.

这是它成功的关键因素。

It's a huge part of its success.

完全彻底地改变了它。

Completely, completely changes it.

没错。

Yes.

你能想象换成更传统的配乐吗？比如詹姆斯·牛顿·霍华德的管弦乐那种

Could you imagine with just a more traditional, like, James Newton Howard orchestra playing, like

对啊。

Yeah.

或者随便什么

Or anything

你知道的，而不是这种，你知道的，2270年的伯格因风格。

you know, instead of this, you know, Burgyn in twenty two thousand seven.

这简直就是他妈的浩室音乐

Like, it is it is fucking house music

是的。

Yeah.

整部电影里都是雷斯纳的音乐，他当然知道怎么做这种音乐，但以前从未真正做出过这样的作品。

Throughout the film from Resnar, who, of course, like, knows how to make music like that, but has never really quite made music like this.

他之前显然做过一些工业舞曲，但和这个完全不同。

Like, he's obviously made a kind of industrial dance music before, but not like this.

电影如此痴迷配乐，甚至直接在对话场景上叠加音乐，你几乎听不清角色们在说什么。

And the movie is so in love with the score that it is literally dropping score over dialogue scenes, and you almost can't make out what the characters are saying to each other.

在某种程度上，这正是电影的重点，因为配乐与这种纯粹的能量完美契合。

Which is, in some ways, like, the point of the movie because the the score is so aligned with the this is just this is pure energy.

我们就是要让你感觉自己像个疯狂的年轻人，分不清网球结束和性爱开始的界限。

Like, we are just gonna make you feel like you are, you know, an insane young person confused where the tennis ends and the sex begins.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

还有你在生活中想要什么，无论是为了赢、为了性，还是两者兼得。

And also what you want in life and whether it's to win or to fuck or to both.

对Tashi来说，这两者是一回事。

In Tashi's case, they are the same.

没错。

Yeah.

正是如此。

Exactly.

而且这种状态一直持续着。

And it just it keeps going.

这太令人兴奋了。

It's so exciting.

是的。

Yep.

我确实认为它有助于设定节奏，同时也让电影的节奏以及那些来回切换的剪辑显得更加合理。

I do think it it helps it sets the pace, but also makes the pace of the movie and that cutting in the back and forth just make a lot more sense.

因为在某个时刻，你就会觉得，无所谓了。

Because at some point, you're just like, whatever.

我就这么继续下去。

I'm just going.

就像，我只是在跳舞。

Like, I'm just dancing.

有一个连续的片段。

There's like a sequence.

我想是当Art和Tashi在床上那段，背景音乐一直在播放。

I think it's when Art and Tashi are in bed together where the music is going.

我当时就觉得，我不在乎他们在说什么。

And I'm like, I don't care what they're saying.

其实并不重要，真的无关紧要。

It doesn't really it's, like, not important.

那是她大学网球比赛前的那场吗？

Is that the one before her college tennis match?

我觉得是电影快结束时的场景，哦不对。

I think it's later in the movie near the end Oh, no.

阿特就是阿特。

Art is Art.

但不是。

But no.

你就像是阿特和帕特里克的结合体。

You're like of Art and Patrick.

是啊。

Yeah.

我超爱他们。

I I love them.

我也爱他们，但今天看到Vulture网站的Nate Jones发了篇文章说他们应该互换角色。

I love them, but I think it was Nate Jones of Vulture who published a piece today being like, they should be switched.

哦。

Oh.

你知道吗？

You know?

而且，就像，Art更有Art的气质，Patrick更有Patrick的气质。

And that, like, Art has more Art vibes and Patrick has more Patrick vibes.

这个想法在我脑海中扎根得如此之深，以至于我现在都很难分清谁是Art谁是Patrick。

And and that lodged itself enough in my head that now I have a hard time remembering who is Art and who is Patrick.

我觉得那可能是帕特里克·斯兰德。

I think that might be Patrick Slander.

就是那些叫帕特里克的人。

Like, dudes named Patrick.

嗯，那是你的爱尔兰特质

Well, that's your Irish

我就是这个意思

That's what I'm saying.

是啊。

Yeah.

老兄。

My guy.

我不

I don't

认识很多叫Art的人。

know a lot of arts.

没错。

Yeah.

我是说，Resner的音乐相当了不起。

I mean, Resner music is pretty incredible.

这部电影里也有一些重要的音乐插入点。

There are also some some important needle drops in this movie.

这是...这里有些盐的影子

This is this is there's shades of salt

燃烧在这里。

burn here.

这部电影几乎完整播放了Nelly的《Hot in Here》作为派对背景音乐。

This is a movie that allows pretty much the entirety of Nelly's Hot in Here to play at a party.

这

It's

太神奇了。

like Amazing.

我是说，那段音乐插入让我兴奋不已。

I I mean, I was thrilled that the needle dropped.

给Z世代解释一下《Hot in Here》发布时的盛况。

Explain to Gen z what it was like when Hot in Here dropped.

解释它是如何改变

Explain how it changed I

我对那段时期有着异常鲜活的感官记忆，当时我应该是高中年纪，但还没上大学。

have just like an incredibly vivid sense memory of a I must have been high school age wise, but I was I was still I'd not gone to college yet.

我们食堂里有些糟糕的舞蹈，就像《Hot in Here》正在播放时那样。

And some terrible dance in our cafeteria, and like hot in here is going.

所有老师都试图，双关语警告，给跳舞现场降温，你懂的。

And all the teachers are like trying to, pun intended, bring down the temperature of the dancing, you know.

但到了某个时刻，

But it's like, at some point

他们阻止不了你们。

They couldn't stop you.

没人能阻止《Hot in Here》。

You can't stop Hot in Here.

当我们为婚礼DJ列想听的歌单时，我写的就是'我想听《Hot in Here》，其他任何Nelly的歌能塞进歌单的都可以'。

When we had to make a list, like, for our wedding DJ of songs we wanted to hear, I literally, the thing I wrote was just, like, I would like to hear Hot in Here and then, like, really any other Nelly that you can fit into to the playlist.

结果根本没放，DJ整晚都在放费城说唱。

That didn't really happen, and he just played, like, Philly rap the entire time.

不过没关系。

But that's okay.

即便在2006年也极为重要。

Extremely important even in 2006.

而且这也是事实。

And it is also It that's true.

它确实有着很长的生命周期。

It did it it had a long life span.

那是2002年的歌，但你仍会在活动上听到它

That's a 2002 song, but it did you would hear that in an event

比如我高中毕业那年，我们完全沉迷于Nelly的音乐。

like one my senior year of high school when we lost it to to Nelly.

所以音乐一响起

So it comes on.

这是在派对上。

It's at the party.

这是回忆模式，所以他们还是青少年。

It's in a flashback mode, so they're teenagers.

赞达亚穿着蓝色雪纺裙，完全就是个少女模样。

And Zendaya is, like, perfectly teenager out in, like, a blue chiffon dress.

她有一段经典的瓜达尼诺式舞蹈，配合流行歌曲跳了很久。

And she gets, you know, a classic Guadagnino dance for a long period of time to a pop song.

我想她确实把社交媒体头像都换成了这个场景的剧照。

I think she actually just she changed all her social media profile pics to a picture of her from this scene.

是啊。

Yeah.

就是，跳舞。

Like, dance.

她知道。

And she because she knows.

嗯，想想看。

Well, think about it.

《阴风阵阵》对吧。

Suspiria Yeah.

舞蹈。

Dance.

显然，阿米·汉默，《请以你的名字呼唤我》，舞蹈。

Obviously, army hammer, call me by your name, dance.

就像，这是他显然会做的事，雷·费恩。

Like, this is something he go obviously, Ray Fine.

雷·费恩。

Ray Fine.

手指划过。

Finger slash.

这是他一次又一次反复回归的主题。

This is something he goes back to over and over and over.

是啊。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

运动中的身体。

Bodies in motion.

作为一种信号传递方式，就像这样，这个人表面之下有很多事情即将引发一些问题。

And as a way of signaling, like, this, there's a lot going on with this person that under the surface that is is about to create some issues.

而她就是那个场景中的磁铁。

And she is she is the magnet in that scene.

没错。

Yeah.

因为那两个家伙在派对上，他们正注视着她。

Because the two guys are at the party, and they're watching her.

我们正通过他们的视角观看。

And we're seeing through their POV.

通过他们的眼睛看她此刻的样子。

It's through their eyes what she looks like in this moment.

她就是那个奖品。

And she is the prize.

她就像是那个奖杯。

She is, like, the cup.

而他们真的只是两个愚蠢的青少年。

And they are really just two dumb teenagers also.

他们俩张大嘴巴在一起的镜头非常滑稽。

Like, the the shots of the two of them together just, like, with jaws open are very funny.

乔什·奥康纳饰演的角色拿着可乐瓶，一边看她跳舞一边用嘴叼着瓶子。

Josh O'Connor's character holding a Coke bottle, like, mouthing a Coke bottle while watching her dance.

简直太搞笑了。

Just hilarious stuff.

迈克·费斯全程都反戴着帽子。

Mike Feiss is wearing the backwards hat throughout that.

那是年轻的迈克·费斯反戴帽子的样子，特别好笑

That's like the this it's young Mike Feiss when his hat is on backwards, which is very funny

而且可爱。

and cute.

另一个辨别所处年代的方法就是看那男生的发型，看她的发型。

Other way you know where you are is just look at the guy's hair, look at her hair.

就是这样

That's how

你就知道我们处于什么年代了。

you know what we're in time we are.

但还有，他们就那样让Nelly的歌完整播放。

But but also, they just let the Nelly like, the entire song plays.

是啊。

Yeah.

我是说，那

I mean, that's

这是个代价高昂的教训。

It's been a pricey lesson.

太强了。

Powerful.

是啊。

Yeah.

不过我很为所有人高兴，因为它一直持续着。

I'm I'm glad for everyone though because it just kept going.

我当时就像，整部电影过程中我都在欢呼喝彩。

And I was just like, I was I was hooting and hollering throughout this whole movie.

当这些场景出现时，我甚至跟着配乐跳起舞来，你知道，就是那些

I'm like dancing to the score when this was going, when, you know, all of the

我注意到的另一个真正具有时代印记的场景是大学食堂里，迈克·费斯特和赞达亚一起吃午饭时，背景音乐播放着莉莉·艾伦的《Smile》。

The other one that I clocked that I was was a real time capsule moment is in the college cafeteria when Mike Feist and Zendaya are having lunch together, Lily Allen Smile is playing.

我当时就想，哇。

And I was like, wow.

这绝对是...天啊。

That is definitely Oh my god.

在那个房间那个时刻播放着

Playing in that room at that time.

而且

And

不过我看了这个之后，确实去听了那张专辑

I but I I do after I saw this, I went and was listening to that album.

老实说，我大概每三个月

As I as I honestly do once every three

到四个月就会听一次

to four months.

很棒的专辑

Great album.

她现在还和大卫·哈伯结婚吗？

Is she still married to David Harbour?

我想是的

I believe so.

我觉得他们过得不错。

I think they're doing well.

很好。

Good.

她似乎每九个月就会说点什么，然后所有人都会说：闭嘴，莉莉·艾伦。

She seems to say something once every nine months where everybody's like, shut up, Lily Allen.

她现在也有播客了，跟我们一样。

Well, has a podcast now, like we all do.

要知道，伟人也会落魄。

You know, the mighty have fallen.

还是说我们崛起了？

But Or have we risen?

好好想想

Think about it

这个角度。

that way.