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我是肖恩·芬内西。
I'm Sean Fennessey.
我是阿曼达·多宾斯。
I'm Amanda Dobbins.
欢迎收听《大视野》，一档关于《披露日》的对话节目。
And this is the Big Picture a conversation show about Disclosure Day.
在今天的节目中，我们会深入探讨史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格重返商业大片领域的作品——科幻巨制《披露日》，这也是这位传奇导演的第三十五部电影。
On today's episode, we will dig into Steven Spielberg's return to blockbuster filmmaking, the sci fi epic Disclosure Day, the iconic director's thirty fifth feature film.
这是2026年最受期待的影片之一，我们会彻底聊一聊这部电影的剧情、它对地球之外生命的思考，以及这一切背后的深意。
This is among our most anticipated movies of 2026, and we will dive deep into a spoiler filled conversation about the film's plot, its ideas about life beyond our own, and what it all means.
不过在那之前，我们先来聊聊最新的电影资讯。
But first, we'll talk about some movie news right after this.
好了，多宾斯。
Okay, Dobbins.
电影圈的最新动态，我们从头说起。
Right at the top of the ledger in movie news.
居然能忍住没拍成这样，真是了不起。
Incredible restraint to not just make this.
这档播客聊的是纽约尼克斯队。
This is a conversation podcast about the New York Knicks.
我们做到了。
We did it.
太不可思议了。
Unreal.
真的，简直不敢相信。
On like, honestly, unbelievable.
我当时正带着四岁的儿子和丈夫一起看直播。
I was watching live, with my four year old son and my husband.
都过了孩子睡觉的时间，但我们还是说：你必须亲眼看看这历史性的一刻。
It was way past bedtime, but we were like, can you you gotta you gotta witness history.
不过我们根本没想到，居然会看到原版的伊诺维盖帽。
Though we didn't know that we were gonna get the OG Inovi an Inovi tip.
是的
Yeah.
我都不知道该干什么了。
I don't know what to do with myself.
我真不知道
Don't I don't
该干什么了。
know what to do with myself.
咱们聊聊吧，那最后几分钟实在太精彩了，我从各个角度看了至少四五十遍。
Let's talk a little bit about it because incredible, incredible final moments that I have watched from, like, every angle 45 different times.
这段画面已经被反复剪辑，当成经典片段来播放了。
It's, you know, been set to various scores and cinematic moments.
太棒了。
That's great.
这都成网络迷因了。
It's a meme.
完美。
Perfect.
太棒了。
Beautiful.
尼克斯赢了。
Knicks win.
麦迪逊广场花园全场都沸腾了。
The whole MSG goes completely wild.
每个人都笑开了花，连拉里·戴维和杰里·赛恩菲尔德也不例外。
Everyone is smiling, even Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld.
但之前那两个半小时到三个小时，简直让人摸不着头脑。
But the two and a half hours or three hours really leading up to that, inexplicable.
尼克斯一度落后了29分。
And and there was the Knicks were down by 29 points.
对。
Mhmm.
这是NBA总决赛历史上最大的逆转。
This is the biggest comeback in NBA Finals history.
没错。
That's right.
到底发生了什么？
What happened?
我不是说要当我的场边记者，但你倒是说说，这到底是怎么发生的？
Not to, you know, not to be my courtside reporter, but, like, what what happened?
我来跟你说说我的感受。
I'll I'll give you my perspective on the experience.
是的。
Yeah.
我一直在家里看这些比赛。
I've been watching all of these games at home.
当然。
Sure.
我一直在客厅里和家人一起看这些比赛。
I've been watching them in my living room with my family.
是的。
Yeah.
星期五那场，我和CR还有菲比一起看的。
On Friday, I watched with CR and Phoebe.
真温馨。
That's beautiful.
不过平时，我 mostly 是和爱丽丝、艾琳一起看的。
But otherwise, I've been watching this mostly with with Alice, with Aileen.
有时候，爱丽丝和艾琳得躲到房间另一头去。
Sometimes Alice and Aileen need to be, like, on the other side of the room.
对。
Yeah.
既然这么煎熬，你们要不要去玩个桌游？
For room, but, like, why don't you guys play a board game while we endure this?
这是一系列非常紧张、极其胶着的比赛，两支实力相当的球队。
This is a very tense, very close series, two very evenly matched teams.
我很少会处在这样的局面。
I'm I've very rarely been in this position.
2015年，尼克斯和大都会队都打进过世界大赛。
The Knicks the Mets were in the World Series in 2015.
还记得吧。
Remember that.
他们上一次打世界大赛是2000年的地铁大战。
They were in the World Series in there was the Subway Series in 2000.
至于尼克斯队，自1999年以来就没进过总决赛。
They I had the Knicks have not been in the finals since 1999.
喷气机队。
Jets.
洛厄尔。
Lowell.
喷气机队自1969年以来就没进过超级碗。
The Jets have not been to the Super Bowl since 1969.
所以我对这种高风险的系列赛真的没什么经验。
So I just don't have a ton of experience with this kind of high stakes series.
对。
Mhmm.
但我也在努力做个成熟的成年人，当个父亲，做个有担当的人。
But I'm also trying to be a grown up person, a father, an adult.
所以这场比赛才刚开始两分钟，我就已经对裁判的判罚大呼小叫了。
So watching the first two minutes of this game, I've already been a big crybaby about the officiating in this series.
是的。
Yes.
我觉得凯特前两分钟就吃了两次犯规，我立马就崩溃了。
And I felt like Kat got two fouls in the first two minutes, and I it just immediately went full doomer.
我当时就想，这太糟了。
Know, I was just like, this is horrible.
全世界都在跟我们作对。
The world is against us.
你不是一个人在战斗。
You weren't alone.
我记得阿耶莎·库里在2016年发过一条推文，说比赛早就被操控了。
I there's a a historic Ayesha Curry tweet from, I believe, 2016 of, you know, it's rigged.
对。
Yes.
我不知道该说什么。
I don't
真不知道该说什么。
know what to say.
我刚在现场亲眼看了。
I just saw it live.
这比赛早就被操控了。
It's rigged.
比赛一开打，这条推文就被重新传开了。
And that was being recirculated as soon as the game started.
我一直活在那条推文里。
And I've been living in that tweet
对，就是这样。
for Yeah.
整整四场比赛。
For four games.
这事儿说来话长，维克多·温班亚马，真的挺复杂的。
It's really you know, Victor Wimbinyama, it's a long story.
我得说，今天我挺高兴他存在过的，毕竟他关键时刻掉链子了。
I'll say I'm I'm certainly happy about his existence today because he choked.
但前两记犯规之后，尼克斯又被打得溃不成军，而马刺在第一节的表现简直不可思议。
But after those first two cat fouls and then the fact that the Knicks just got their doors blown off, the Spurs were unbelievable in the first quarter.
他们投篮准得离谱。
They were shooting the lights out.
我当时就彻底放弃了。
I, like, shut down.
我真的完全不想看了。
I I really was shutting down.
到了第二节快一半的时候，我和杰克还有同事安东尼·多本多说了这事，我就从看电视转到用手机看比赛了。
And then halfway through the second quarter, I just shared this with Jack and our colleague, Anthony Dobbundo, I just moved from watching the game on the TV to watching it on my phone.
明白了。
Okay.
我一边陪爱丽丝玩，一边用手机看比赛，因为他们已经落后25分了。
And I was sitting and playing with Alice while watching the game on my phone because they were down 25 points.
这确实不是陪孩子时该有的状态。
Which is certainly the energy that you want to bring to you spending time with your child.
那确实不太理想。
It's it wasn't ideal.
这算是
This is kind
但至少比躲到地下室、谁也不看、什么都不做要强。
of But it like was better than just going into the basement and not doing any like not looking at anyone.
是的。
Yeah.
确实如此。
That's true.
不过你还记得吗？以前你一边陪Alice玩，一边听播客。
Though, remember when you used to, like, play with Alice and also listen to a podcast at the same time?
那时候她才六个月大。
When she was, like, six months old.
对。
Sure.
但他们能感觉到。
But they can tell.
对。
Yeah.
我们挺好的。
We're good.
爱丽丝和我都挺好的。
Alice and are good.
相信我。
Trust
我。
me.
我知道。
I know.
知道。
Know.
她和我
She and
状态都还不错。
I are in good shape.
是的。
Yeah.
但到了第三季度，当他们把比分缩小到15分时，我想说的是：
But by this third quarter when they cut it to 15, here's what I'll say.
首先，我当时在搞一种极端悲观的反向诅咒，心里想着：这回他们肯定要输。
One, I was doing the hardcore doomer reverse jinx thing where I was just like, they're gonna lose this game.
这个系列赛他们再也赢不了下一场比赛了。
They won't win another game this series.
这简直就是典型的尼克斯队风格——特朗普的霉运，詹姆斯·多兰在WFN上的采访，还有泰勒·斯威夫特穿着性感坐在前排，摆出一副高高在上的样子。
This is classic Knicks, the Trump stink, the James Dolan interview on WFN, Taylor Swift with her grift and ass sitting in the front row.
这实在太过分了。
That was inexcusable.
你听我说。
Listen.
你听我说。
Listen.
一个月前，泰勒·斯威夫特去看了尼克斯的比赛，却在为骑士队加油。
Taylor Swift was at a Knicks game a month ago rooting for the Cavs.
我知道。
I know.
她坐着，离地面就一点点高。
Sitting, like, one foot above the the floor.
这真的太荒唐了。
And it's very stupid.
我不明白克利夫兰那边的座位安排是怎么回事。
I don't know what's happening with Cleveland seating also.
不过呢。
But yeah.
还有啊，女士们，麻烦坐好行吗？
But also just like, ladies, sit down.
你懂的。
You know?
反正也没事。
Like, it's fine.
恭喜你。
Congratulations.
你这么有钱有名，据说还要在麦迪逊广场花园办婚礼——虽然我根本不信这事儿，但你有资格坐前排座位。
You're so rich and famous and allegedly getting married at MSG even though I don't believe that, that you can have courtside seats.
首先，真不如把座位让给别人。
First of all, give them to someone else, honestly.
其次，你既然穿着史蒂薇·妮克丝的T恤来了，就没必要跳得那么起劲。
But second of all, if you're going to be there in your Stevie Nicks shirt, like, you don't need to be jumping up and down that hard.
明白吗？
Okay?
你刚到而已。
You just arrived.
咱们得有点儿得体吧，你说是吧。
I Have some let's you know, same decorous.
就像杰森·孔塞普西翁说的，本来坐那儿的人，大概是个来自纽约的对冲基金经理。
As as Jason Concepcion put it, the person who would have been sitting there was probably, like, a hedge fund manager from New York.
我们又不是从一个一辈子支持尼克斯的蓝领球迷手里抢了座位，但这一切确实太张扬、太荒唐了。
It's not like we took this away from a blue collar lifelong Knicks fan, but that was all of that was very ostentatious and silly.
凯莉把这位置让给了乔什·萨迪，我当时真就挑了挑眉。
Kylie took this seat away from Josh Safdie, and I was I raised my eyebrows at that.
你懂的。
You know?
不过后来我看到乔什去了另一片球场。
Well, I saw Josh got on another court afterwards.
反正第三节的时候，我实在待不下去了，干脆自己一个人去看比赛。
Anyhow, in the third quarter, I basically, like, I had to leave and just go watch the game by myself.
毕竟我之前那么悲观，还在好几个尼克斯的聊天群里说他们不会再赢了。
Because after all my doomerism, after on my multiple Knicks text threads saying they won't win another game.
完了。
It's over.
结束了。
It's over.
真的结束了。
It's over.
这既是种反向诅咒，也完全是种被击垮的感觉。
Which is some combination of reverse jinx and and just feeling destroyed.
比尔·西蒙斯是第一个说他们落后29分时的人，
Bill Simmons was the first person who said, when they were down 29
对。
Mhmm.
尼克斯队绝对能翻盘，以前也干过这种事。
The Knicks can definitely come back from this, and they have done it before.
但当时我根本不信。
And I didn't believe that in the moment.
好吧。
Okay.
但就在那会儿，我真正投入进了这场比赛。
But that was right around when I locked into the game in a real way.
那场比赛最后的一节半，是我这辈子看体育比赛时感觉最棒的一次。
And the final quarter and a half of that game is the best I've ever felt watching sports in my entire life.
那会儿情况真的很糟。
That was the It was really bad.
OG补篮得分。
OG tip in.
再没什么能比得上那一刻了。
There nothing will ever ever ever ever touch that.
我的意思是，那就是一种狂喜。
I mean, that is that was elation.
我喘不过气来。
I couldn't breathe.
眼泪止不住地流。
Tears in my eyes.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
真的感觉身体都在发抖。
Truly, like, felt my body shaking.
说真的，这事确实发生在我身上，因为我当时在喝酒，昨晚他投进那一球的时候，我耳朵堵住了，这事儿可能没人觉得意外。
Actually, literally something that happened to me, because I was drinking, I won't be a surprise to people last night, is my ear clogged when he hit the shot.
从那以后一直堵着，直到一小时前我吃了伪麻黄碱才通了。
And it had been clogged all the way up until an hour ago when I took a pseudoephedrine.
哦，明白了。
Like Okay.
那会儿终于通了。
It was so unclogged.
不是。
No.
不是，我的意思是根本不是那样。
Like, I it was no.
耳朵堵住是因为我当时完全控制不了自己的身体状态。
It clogged because it was like I had no control over my function.
是体内的气压发生了变化吗？
The atmospheric pressure just changed in your body?
对。
Yes.
明白了。
Okay.
那挺好。
That's good.
你听好了。
And listen.
我的意思是，我就花了五个小时听播客、刷推特，光顾着笑。
I I mean, I I just and, you know, and then I spent five hours listening to pods, looking at tweets, just laughing.
是的
Yeah.
你懂的
You know?
就像时隔三十年，我又重新沉浸在《体育中心》里了
Like, reveling in in in SportsCenter in a way I haven't in thirty years.
真是太棒了
It was just the greatest.
但现在还没完
Now the job's not done.
对
No.
现在比分是三比一
It's only three one.
没错
Right.
回圣安东尼奥？
Back to San Antonio?
回圣安东尼奥。
Back to San Antonio.
听好了。
Look.
马刺队真是太厉害了。
The Spurs are amazing.
他们太年轻了。
They're too young.
问题就在这儿。
That's been the issue.
他们犯了很多错误，而尼克斯队抓住了这些失误得分。
The issue is they've made a ton of mistakes, and the Knicks have capitalized on the mistakes.
他们天赋异禀。
They're insanely talented.
维克托太吓人了。
Wemby's terrifying.
我对自己说过的话一点都不后悔。
I do feel justified in everything I said.
他就是个欺凌者。
He's a bully.
他打球太脏了。
He's a dirty player.
他可能是自勒布朗以来，乃至加上约基奇，最天赋异禀的NBA球员。
He's he's also probably the most gifted NBA player that's come around since maybe LeBron, give or take Jokic.
没错。
Yeah.
所以我们还得再赢他一次，但那真是我见过最精彩的比赛。
So we gotta try to beat him one more time, but that was the best, man.
这正是我看了四十三年体育的原因。
That was that that's why I've been watching sports for forty three years.
那种感觉真是无与伦比。
That was the absolute best feeling you can have.
我可以分享一下我看到的一些梗和网友的反应吗？
Can I offer my reviews of some of the memes that have made it my way or the reactions?
当然可以。
Sure.
我很高兴他们选中了我提到的那个基督徒，迪奥，还有那个叫尼克森的五号球员。
So I was happy that they found my Christians Dior, Nixon four guy for number five.
是的。
Yeah.
希望他能开心。
And I hope he's happy.
当然。
Sure.
那简直是一瞬间的诗意。
That's that was an in that was instant poetry.
是的
Yeah.
马曼尼在酒吧椅子上的反应
Mamdani's reaction on the chair in the bar.
在酒吧里
In bar.
非常好
Very good.
我刚才正讲这个故事呢
I was just telling that story.
那真是
That was
太棒了，真的特别精彩
great It's really, really good stuff.
他做的每一件事都值得点赞
Everything he's doing, two thumbs up.
然后那些住在上西区的纽约人，看到UPS的货车就开始喊‘UPS’，他们可真是在认真干这事啊，你知道吧？
And then the group of New Yorkers on the Upper West Side who just started chanting UPS at a UPS truck are doing the work, you know?
是的。
Yeah.
这恰恰让我看到了纽约市最棒的地方。
And that to me captures what is great about New York City.
这真的很有趣。
And that's fun.
这已经超出了原本的范围。
Like this is this has gone beyond.
我可没跟风凑热闹。
I'm I'm not on the bandwagon.
我又不是泰勒·斯威夫特。
I'm not Taylor Swift.
对。
Yeah.
但我一直在关注。
But I'm watching.
我挺期待的。
I'm excited.
这说到底是个现象。
It's you know, a phenomenon.
是的。
Yeah.
这已经成了流行文化现象。
It's a pop pop cultural thing.
没错。
Yeah.
确实如此。
It is.
我们刚才就在聊这个。
That's what we were discussing just before.
我觉得我特别纠结，因为自从季后赛开始，尤其是他们一路高歌猛进之后，好多人问我好几次了。
I think I'm so torn because people have asked me multiple times since the playoffs started and especially when they started going on this massive run.
你会回去吗？
Like, will you go back?
你会回去吗？
Will you go back?
你会回去吗？
Will you go back?
我每次都回答，我绝对不会再回去。
And I always say I will never go back.
这种比赛我没法在现场看。
I can't watch games like this in person.
我太紧张了。
Like, I'm too tense.
确实太紧张了。
It's too tense.
周六晚上，在圣安东尼奥。
Saturday night, San Antonio.
你真不去试试吗？
You're not gonna try?
我不能去。
I can't.
我真去不了。
I can't.
可我现在要是去了，怕会坏了运气。
Well, now if I do it, I'm afraid of jinxing everything.
我的意思是，我们以前从来没这么幸运过。
I mean, I we've we've just never had this much good fortune.
他们已经赢了15场季后赛里的14场。
They've now won 14 of 15 playoff games.
不会吧。
No.
我明白。
I know.
我的意思是，如果他们赢了，这可能会成为体育史上最具震撼力的季后赛表现之一。
I mean, this is gonna end up becoming, if they win, one of the most astonishing playoff runs in sports history.
所以我不能冒险，不能去碰这个运气。
So I can't risk I can't fuck with that.
好吧。
Okay.
但是
But
那你一个人看第五场比赛吗？
Will you watch game six game five alone?
我觉得我会跟以前每场一样，大家一起坐下来看。
I think I'll just do what I've done with every game, which is we'll all sit down together.
我们把比赛打开。
We'll fire it up.
如果比赛不太顺利，我们就稍微把音量调低一点。
If it's going poorly, we'll kind of shut it down a little bit.
我会换个房间待着。
I'll move to another room.
我还是得坚持原来有效的方法。
I gotta just stick with what's worked.
我家得重新搞个睡前规矩了，最近简直乱套了。
We have to do a bedtime reset in my house because things have just really gone awry.
但问题来了，一到第五场开播，诺克斯肯定说：我想看尼克斯队。
But it's tough because once game five turns on, Knox is gonna be like, I wanna watch the Knicks.
他完全入戏了。
Like, he's in.
他懂这场比赛，也知道那个时刻有多重要。
He he knows about it, and he knows that he understood that moment.
我和扎克俩人，一看到那个瞬间，直接从沙发上跳起来了。
I think Zach and I both, like, you know, jumped off the couch Yes.
就是那一刻发生的时候。
When it when it happened.
所以。
So
这种事情其实能让人们即使不住在某个球队所在的城市，也能成为他们的球迷。
is something that, like this actually makes sports fandoms outside of your home city.
我不是那种会支持非家乡球队的人。
I'm not one of those people who roots for a team that isn't from my home city.
但如果你是九十年代在纽约、加拿大或者怀俄明州长大的孩子，看着达拉斯牛仔队比赛，你很可能一辈子都是他们的球迷。
But if you were a young person watching the Dallas Cowboys in the nineties, you could become a Cowboys fan forever if you lived in New York or Canada or Wyoming.
如果你是2004年的一个棒球小迷，那年红袜队击败了洋基队，
If you were a baseball fan, a young baseball fan in 2004 when the Red Sox
对。
Mhmm.
你不管住在哪里，都会从此成为红袜队的铁杆粉丝。
Beat the Yankees, you could become a Red Sox for life no matter where you lived.
这些年，像帕特里克·马霍姆斯这样的球迷，其实遍布全国各地，不光是堪萨斯城的人。
There have been a lot of example I mean, Patrick Mahomes fans are have come up despite not being from Kansas City over the years.
这种事在体育圈里挺常见的。
Like, this is something that happens with sports.
尼克斯队嘛，我也说不好。
And the Knicks team is I don't know.
我觉得他们挺讨人喜欢的。
I feel like they're pretty likable.
我知道我这话说得没立场，但他们真不张扬。
I mean, I it's impossible for me to have any objectivity about this, but they're not braggadocious.
他们就是埋头苦干的那种人。
They're really put your head down and work guys.
他们做事很成熟。
They're like they're adults.
他们年龄都在二十到三十一岁之间，团队里有种特别的凝聚力。
They're all between the ages of 20 and 31, and there's a togetherness to them that I find really special.
所以啊，我真的不知道该干什么了。
So, yeah, I'm I'm just I don't know what to do with myself.
我其实也在看，就是想看看今天咱们这期播客该用什么状态继续下去。
I also was watching just to try to understand what energy we would have today for the, you know, the rest of this podcast.
这事儿可不小。
And this is a this is a big deal.
这是斯皮尔伯格的新片。
This is new Spielberg movie.
你知道的，没错。
You're, you know Yeah.
你最好的朋友，史蒂文。
Your best friend, Steven.
能打断一场电影播客正常节奏的，恐怕只有这种历史性胜利了。
One of the only things that could possibly interrupt the general momentum of a movie podcast is is in is a historic win.
所以我特别希望他们能赢，这样咱们才能好好聊这事儿。
So I I really needed them to close so that we could do this appropriately.
没错。
And Yeah.
我很感激。
And I appreciate it.
我知道你还是觉得，这就像坐过山车一样。
I understand you're still like, it was a roller coaster.
对。
Mhmm.
你知道，你已经敞开心扉了。
You know, you're vulnerable.
你的心血都押在这上面了。
Your, you know, heart's on the line.
但事情还没完。
And it's not over yet.
当然没完。
Nope.
但我们还是会尽最大努力。
But we're gonna do our best.
我很感谢他们所做的。
And I appreciate what they did.
如果他们被横扫了，我可能会在播客里全力以赴。
I think if they had gotten blown out, I would have brought my a game to the pod.
我大概就会说，这种事情难免会发生。
I would have just been like, it happens.
是的。
Yeah.
现在二比二，我们很可能输掉这个系列赛。
Two two, we'll probably lose the series.
我可能会陷入悲观情绪。
I would have been in Doomer Town.
但我不会觉得这会影响我自己的事情。
But I wouldn't have been like, this is gonna affect how I do my thing.
如果他们在逆转之后还以一分之差输了，嗯，
If they had lost a one point game after the comeback Uh-huh.
我可能会把录制推迟到周五。
I might have pushed the recording to Friday.
行吧。
Okay.
只是想说一下，
Just putting that
录进节目里。
on the recording.
没这么做是因为明天为了世界杯过来，路上会特别堵。
Didn't because the traffic getting here tomorrow for World Cup purposes is gonna be very difficult.
这话说得真在理。
That's an incredibly good point.
所以我很庆幸咱们不用来办公室。
So I'm glad we're not coming to the office.
我打算去你家。
I am coming to your house.
我本来想说，
Was gonna say,
你周五确定能行吗？
are you are you locked in for Friday?
家里有事。
Family.
这包括
That's Including
包括我老公在内。
Including my on the men husband.
我的天，这体育周可真够忙的。
I mean, what a sports week.
确实。
Yeah.
真是体育周啊。
What a sports week.
我特别期待。
I'm excited.
你知道吗，你老公做了个运动相关的手术？
You know, your husband had a sports surgery?
他找了个特别帅的运动医生，真是惊到了。
He did with an incredibly handsome sports doctor, which Wow.
是的。
Yeah.
他直到那医生走进来才提，我一看，天哪。
He did not mention until the guy walked in the room, and I was like, hello.
哦，真厉害。
Oh, wow.
多亏了他。
Thanks to him.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
手术挺顺利的。
It went well.
不错。
Nice.
他恢复得挺好。
So he's recovering well.
不过，那个手术是不是有点像尼尔·埃莱特罗切那种？
But, yeah, it was it was sort of Was it like Neil Eletroche?
不是。
No.
那个是《火车灾难》里那个角色吗？
Is that the train wreck character?
不是。
No.
那是给阿龙·罗杰斯做跟腱手术的医生，他做过好多例跟腱手术。
That's the guy who does the Achilles surgeries that that worked on Aaron Rodgers' Achilles and all the
不是。
No.
但这是为了让他肩膀恢复功能而做的运动外科手术。
But it I mean, it was a sports surgery in order to get his shoulder working again.
有人跟我解释过，要通过稳定肌肉来修复，还提到一个叫remplessage的术语，是法语里指填补原本不存在的部位。
And, you know, it was explained to me about moving stabilizing the muscles and something called reme plesage, which is the French term for filling in something that wasn't there.
嘿。
So Hey.
哦。
Oh.
那话不是我说的。
I didn't say it.
你应该说remplessage。
Remplessage, you should say.
挺有意思的。
Interesting.
那位英俊的外科医生念得特别标准。
Which the handsome surgeon pronounced very well.
是的。
Yeah.
不过话说回来，这电影虽然乱七八糟，但真好看。
But anyway, train wreck, good movie.
对。
Yeah.
我是他的粉丝。
I'm a fan.
咱们来聊聊这部关于电影的播客吧。
Let's let's massage the the movie podcast.
咱们来补上之前没谈到的部分。
Let's let's fill in what we were not doing.
感谢各位听众，忍耐了八分钟关于NBA的讨论。
Thank you to the listeners who endured eight minutes of discussion of the NBA.
在讨论公开日之前，先有一些电影新闻。
There is some movie news before we discuss Disclosure Day.
对。
Mhmm.
我在社交媒体上收到不少留言，催我们赶紧回应。
I got quite a few notes on social media asking us to immediately react Mhmm.
回应《社会清算》预告片的发布。
To the release of the Social Reckoning trailer.
这是艾伦·索金自编自导的新电影。
This is the new movie from Aaron Sorkin written and directed.
它实际上算是《社交网络》的续集，那部片子是我们 collectively 票选的本世纪最佳电影，当时我们做了那个25部精选。
It is a effectively a sequel to The Social Network, which was our favorite movie collectively of the twenty first century when we did 25 for
对，就是那个25部精选。
'25.
没错。
That.
不过，好吧。
But Well Okay.
你知道吗？
You know what?
我最近老在跟人聊芬奇。
I have been having a lot of Fincher conversations.
是的。
Yeah.
因为克里夫·布思的事，芬奇又上新闻了。
Fincher back in the news because of Cliff Booth.
对。
Right.
还有人因为我没拍《七宗罪》而数落我。
And and somebody was bullying me about not making it zodiac.
我就跟你说一声。
Just putting that out there for you.
那个人想怎么欺负你都行，反正他欺负不了我。
That person is welcome to bully you all they want because they can never bully me.
我是不会被撼动的。
Like, I'm immovable.
那是个共同的名单。
And it was a joint list.
祝你好运吧，兄弟。
It's like, good luck, buddy.
社交网络上。
Social network.
就当是个男人吧。
Assume it was a man.
所以祝你好运。
So good luck.
是男人和女人两个人。
It was a man and a woman.
哦，这样啊。
Oh, okay.
《社交网络》在那份榜单上排第一，实至名归。
Social Network had its rightful place at number one on that list.
《社会清算》这部片子，我觉得承载了那种期待的分量。
The Social Reckoning comes, I think, with the weight of that expectation.
对了，你之前没看这个预告片吗？
And now remind me, you missed this trailer?
我没看。
I did.
那是在周一晚上发布的。
It was on Monday night.
所以我得留下来吃家常饭。
So I had to stay and have dinner, family dinner.
我和马特·贝利尼一起看了这个预告片。
So Matt Bellini and I saw this trailer.
是这些扁豆吗？
Was this the lentils?
我觉得可能是扁豆。
I think it might have been the lentils.
我确定是。
I believe it was.
对。
Yeah.
所以马特和我在四月的电影市场展上看了这个预告片。
So Matt and I saw this trailer at CinemaCon in April.
是的。
Mhmm.
马特特别兴奋，觉得杰里米·斯特朗很有成为网络迷因的潜力。
And, you know, Matt was very excited about the kind of meme potential of Jeremy Strong.
我反正觉得这片子怕是要翻车。
I generally was like, this looks like a disaster.
没错。
Right.
我觉得杰里米·斯特隆在片中扮演扎克伯格这个角色，背后其实有更值得探讨的地方。
I think that there was something more interesting about what was happening with Jeremy Strong playing Mark Zuckerberg in the movie.
但看到杰里米·艾伦·怀特、米基·马迪森，还有《华尔街日报》记者和举报人那段剧情时，我觉得效果很糟糕。
But what I we saw of Jeremy Allen White and Mikey Madison and The Wall Street Journal reporter and the whistleblower component, I thought looked very bad.
结果现在真成了这样。
And here we are.
是的。
Yes.
你现在也看过预告片了。
You've seen the trailer now.
看过了。
I did.
我今天早上刚看完。
I I watched it this morning.
因为昨天它出现在我的收件箱里，我当时就想：我还没做好心理准备面对这个。
So because it I it hit my inbox yesterday, and I was like, I'm not emotionally ready for this.
我们刚做完运动手术，还在恢复中。
We're recovering from sports surgery.
这事不急着现在做。
I don't have to do this yet.
什么？
What
真是动荡的一周。
a tumultuous week.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我今天早上看了，我的评价是绝对不行。
So I did it this morning, and my verdict is absolutely not.
我是说，从头到尾都完全不行。
Like, I just absolutely not top to bottom.
我觉得在对杰里米·斯特朗的喜好上，我可能是历史上最偏爱黑甘草味的那个人。
And I think I am historically more black licorice on Jeremy Strong than anybody else.
对。
Mhmm.
当他演得特别出色的时候，我依然觉得那就是杰里米·斯特朗在对我演戏。
And I think when he's very good, but he is always Jeremy Strong to me doing something to me as well.
所以之前我看到的那些片段，让我有点担心，怕不是什么好兆头。
And so I was nervous about in any way what I've seen not positive.
你提到的米基·马迪森和杰里米·艾伦·怀特那类举报者的情节，我完全同意，不过说实话，那段内容也没多少。
I agree with everything you said about the Mikey Madison and Jeremy Allen White reporter whistleblower type situation, which to be fair, we didn't get that much of.
但确实，我们看到的对话特别生硬，像在念说明书。
But it was certainly the we got stilted expository dialogue.
没错。
Exactly.
而且这让我想到，除了是部续集，这部电影明显讲的是脸书，而不是马克·扎克伯格本人。
And, you know, what this reminded me in addition to this being a sequel, this is very clearly a movie about Facebook and not about Mark Zuckerberg.
我觉得《社交网络》和其他很多电影的神奇之处在于，它们通过个人的故事来探讨更大的系统和更广阔的世界，而这正好跟我们待会要聊的《披露日》息息相关。
And I think what is magical about social network and many other movies and honestly, this is germane to the conversation we're gonna have about Disclosure Day is that it uses the personal in order to explore the larger, the larger system and the larger world.
我们通过这些人物所了解到的自己，其实都在映射着更深层的东西。
And, you know, what we learn about ourselves or this person is then reflected.
就我看到的而言，这似乎只是在说大科技公司有多糟糕。
And this is just about how big tech is bad according to what I'm seeing.
我明白。
And I know.
你懂的。
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
但这样就没什么意思了。
And that just doesn't seem as interesting.
当然，这部电影的制作水平简直像笑话，不过我们早知道会这样。
Obviously, also the filmmaking is like a joke, but we knew that that was gonna be the case.
请请个真正的导演吧。
Please hire a real director.
小组项目其实挺好的。
Group projects are good.
是的。
Yeah.
昨天有人在社交媒体上发了《社交网络》的预告片，就是为了清理一下动态。
Someone on social media yesterday just posted the social network trailer just to cleanse the timeline.
再看一遍预告片，那种感觉又回来了，让我意识到，这部片子要达到那样的水准可不容易。
And just looking again at the trailer and conjuring that feeling, it did remind me that we're it's it's a lot to live up to for a movie like this.
在我看来，这部电影就像一部普通的纪实剧。
The movie looks to me like a like a standard docudrama.
你知道的。
You know?
看着就像HBO拍的片子。
It it looks like an HBO movie.
如果拍得好，我还是挺喜欢这种电影的，过去二十年里有不少这样的片子，确实能让人消磨时间、看得开心。
I I like movies like that if they're done well, and there have been a lot of them over the last twenty years that can be, like, entertaining and past the time.
但这部片子是在我们都非常敬重的那部电影的阴影下推出的。
But this is coming in the shadow of a movie that we both revere.
我觉得你说得对，它给人的感觉更像是在讲一个系统、一种我们生活方式的转变，而不是像《社交网络》那样深入刻画一个人物——那部片最打动人的地方，就在于它试图探索这个像斯芬克斯一样聪明又任性的年轻人，如何改变了世界。
And I think you're right that it does feel like it's a movie about a system and a way that we have changed our lives rather than the character study of The Social Network, which was what is so powerful about that film is trying to explore this sphinx like, bratty young man who changed the world.
而这部片子讲的是企业如何做决策，以及这些决策如何伤害人，但这种题材本身并不具备根本性的戏剧张力。
And this is about the way that a corporation makes decisions and how it hurts people, which is not fundamentally dramatic.
尤其是现在，关于这些事的报道已经太多了。
We especially because there's just a lot of reportage about what's transpired.
不过说真的，我刚才其实也做了跟你看《奥本海默》预告片时一样的事。
Now look, I'm I'm I'm guilty of doing the thing that you just did when we saw the Oppenheimer trailer.
我当时就想：哎，这事儿我们都知道结局了。
I was like, we know what happens.
如果你读过那本书，应该还记得这些细节。
You've If read the book, you you may remember that.
我这么说的时候，大家都特别生气，但看完电影后，我立马就改口了。
People were so mad at me when I said that, and I it was very easy for me to change my tune when I saw the movie.
如果电影够好，真相自然就站得住脚。
So if the movie is good enough True.
观众会完全忘记之前的不满。
It'll wash it away.
这个预告片真的没什么吸引力。
It's it's just not a promising trailer at all.
它看起来太过堆砌了，而当年索金和芬奇合作的厉害之处，就在于他们互相提升了对方。
It looks very it looks very, very overwritten, and that's one thing that you can say about the wonderful collaboration between Sorkin and Fincher is they made each other better.
他们以独特的方式激发了彼此的创作热情，这种风格上的碰撞，反而成就了非凡的作品。
They did they they elevated what each other is interested in in such unique ways, and sometimes that friction stylistically can make something special.
可这部片子却像一个人抱着球单打独斗。
And this just feels like a guy holding the ball by himself.
对。
Yeah.
你也可以这么说史蒂夫·乔布斯，我之前也看到过有人拿他来做比较。
You can also say that of Steve Jobs, which I also saw comparisons to.
那是索金和丹尼·博伊尔的合作，而且明显更贴近——毕竟讲的也是个科技人物，而且是晚年时期的他，还有一个人物传奇的塑造。
And that is a Sorkin, Danny Boyle collaboration, and that is obviously even closer well, it's also about a tech person and a tech person later in life and kind of the legend of of someone.
但它核心还是聚焦在一个人身上，结构上围绕三个独立事件展开。
But it's definitely about a person and the way that it's structured is around three discrete events.
说实话，这电影想传达的东西太广了，时间跨度这么大，我真有点拿不准。
I mean, this is alarming in that it just seems to the breadth of it, of what it's trying to communicate over time, I don't know.
信息量太大了，实在吃不消。
It's a lot to it's a lot to bite off.
这部电影今年秋天就上映了。
You know, the movie comes out this fall.
我们肯定会跟进讨论。
We'll be covering it for sure.
我觉得这种电影其实挺有意思的，表面上看，这不就是我们一直想要的那种片子吗？
I think there's something kind of interesting about a movie like this actually being a on on its face, you think this is what we always ask for.
我们为什么就不能回过头来看看正经的成人剧呢？
Why can't we get back to, like, adult dramas?
但这也感觉像是老一套的IP操作。
But it also feels like kind of a old fashioned IP play.
而且他们还特意提到我们之前说过的那个细节——加入汉考克的伤痕，还有特伦特·雷诺和阿提库斯·罗斯的配乐。
And the decision to include we told you about this, but to include Handcover's bruise, the Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross score
太让人火大了。
So angry.
预告片结尾明明暗示这些作曲家参与了电影，可实际上他们根本没参与，我知道这是营销手段，但这分明是骗人的。
At the conclusion of the trailer when in fact those composers are not a part of the movie, I understand it as a marketing tactic, but it's it's a bait and switch.
你懂我的意思吧。
You know?
这可不是当初拍《社交网络》的那批人做的。
This is not from the people who brought you The Social Network.
这只是一个曾经参与过《社交网络》的人做的。
It's from one person who is a part of The Social Network.
我问你个问题。
Let me ask you this one thing.
如果是艾森伯格而不是斯特龙，你会觉得好一点吗？
If it were Eisenberg and not Strong, would you feel better about it?
会的。
Yes.
我确实会觉得好一点。
I I would.
我说过，我一部分担心在于杰里米·斯特龙，就像亚伦·索尔金一样，我觉得他们最适合在适度的环境下发挥。
I mean, I I said part of my concern is Jeremy Strong, much like Aaron Sorkin, I think is best when mediated.
对。
Mhmm.
而且呢
And well
我懂你的意思。
I know what you mean.
我其实挺喜欢杰里米·斯特朗的，只是我明白你的意思。
When there are it like love Jeremy Strong, but I know what mean.
我觉得他非常有才华，很多表演我都特别欣赏。
I think he's incredibly talented and I've liked many of his performances.
但我觉得，当故事不只是围绕杰里米·斯特朗一个人转的时候
But I think when it's not just the Jeremy Strong show
对。
Yep.
当他和其他角色互动，不再单靠他一个人撑起全场时，那才真正有意思。
When he is in response to other people, when there is more than like, his performance holding something together is when it gets interesting.
嗯。
Mhmm.
可这部看起来完全就是杰里米·斯特朗的独角戏。
And this looks like the Jeremy Strong show.
所以我也说不准。
So I I don't know.
我觉得没人真有胜算。
I don't think anyone is set up to succeed.
你觉得呢？
How about that?
我不能说你不对。
I can't say I disagree with you.
我们还看了《鲸落》的预告片，那部片子咱们在 CinemaCon 都看过。
We also saw the Whale Fall trailer, which you and I did both see at CinemaCon.
直接放开演就对了。
Just rock out.
吓人得很。
Terrifying.
真的特别棒。
Truly, truly great.
我们其实早就跟你说过了。
We we we tried to tell you.
是的。
Yeah.
而且确实挺让人兴奋的。
And it's it's pretty exciting.
我对这部电影特别期待。
I I'm I'm very pumped for this movie.
他们确实展示了我们刚才看到的那段片段。
Now they did effectively show they made the trailer the clip that we saw.
我们看到的是一个片段。
We saw a clip.
没看到完整的预告片。
We didn't see a proper trailer.
他们给我们放了一点预热内容，开头是乔什·布洛林演的角色作为奥斯坦·亚伯拉姆斯角色的父亲，但紧接着就直接跳到了我们看的那段——一个人被鲸鱼吞没，还有章鱼也被鲸鱼吞没的场景。
They showed us a little bit of a tease with the Josh Brolin character being the father of the Austin Abrams character at the beginning of the trailer, but then they basically cut the sequence that we watched of a man being subsumed by a whale in addition to a squid being subsumed by a whale.
很多人看了都说，这实在有点太压抑了。
And I a lot of people were just like, this is a little too stressful for me.
而且确实有点恐怖片的感觉，但显然没透露多少剧情。
And it does have a little bit of a horror movie quality, but I I think it's it's obviously not showing much of the story at all.
而且你知道，这明显是一部求生题材的电影。
And I you know, it's obviously a survival movie.
而且
And I
它根本没解答我的任何疑问。
I It doesn't answer any of my questions.
关于呼吸的问题？
About breathing?
没有。
No.
关于人被鲸鱼吞下去之后会发生什么。
About what happens when you're swallowed by a whale.
对。
Right.
但那更多其实跟氧气什么的没关系，而是关于
But wasn't so much of that related to, like, the oxygen and what would
不对。
No.
是关于重力的。
It was about gravity.
哦，重力。
Oh, gravity.
对，没错。
That's right.
确实是重力的问题。
Was gravity.
不过我们倒是通过间接渠道从导演那里得到了一些消息。
So but we but but I think that we did get word from from the filmmaker by proxy.
说确实存在
That that there is
鲸鱼体内的重力。
gravity inside of a whale.
鲸鱼。
The whale.
是的。
Yeah.
不过我后来听一些鲸类专家说，被鲸鱼吞下去其实是个多步骤、几乎不可能完成的过程。
Though then I heard from some whale experts that there are some issue like, being swallowed by a whale is sort of a multi stop multi step and impossible process.
你根本不可能被整个吞下去。
You wouldn't really be swallowed whole.
明白。
I see.
据说鲸鱼的食道只有葡萄柚那么大之类的。
Something about a whale's esophagus being the size of a grapefruit or something.
你从鲸类专家那里听说的。
You heard from whale experts.
是的。
Yes.
你也是。
So did you.
我吗？
Did I?
是的。
Yes.
哇。
Wow.
那咱们走着瞧吧。
So we'll see.
我们会知道的。
We'll learn.
我真的很期待。
I'm really excited.
你知道吗？《Wailfall》这本小说的作者最近得了普利策奖。
Are you aware that the author of Wailfall, the novel, recently won the Pulitzer Prize?
我当然知道。
I certainly am.
他叫丹尼尔·克劳斯。
His name is Daniel Krause.
是的。
Yes.
对。
Yeah.
但不是因为《Wailfall》。
But not for Wailfall.
是因为《Angel Down》，听说那是一部只有一句话的小说。
For Angel Down, which is apparently an entire a one sentence novel.
这书好像是本恐怖小说，我其实挺想读一读的。
I mean, it's apparently a horror novel, and I'm I actually would like to read it.
很多我最喜欢的恐怖电影播客都强烈推荐过这本书。
A lot of people a lot of my favorite horror movie podcasters have have aggressively recommended it.
我觉得吉尔伯特·克鲁兹也向我推荐过。
I think Gilbert Cruz also recommended it to me.
吉尔伯特·克鲁兹就是让我知道这部电影的人。
Gilbert Cruz is the person who let me know about
这部影片。
this film.
我有个朋友在《纽约时报》工作。
So I friend who works at The New York Times.
是的。
Yeah.
我对《Willful》特别期待。
I'm pumped for willful.
我也是。
Me too.
我觉得它和《社会清算》形成鲜明对比，而且这两部片子同一个月上映，真是太棒了。
I think it's in real stark contrast to The Social Reckoning, and they come out in the same month, so that's wonderful.
对。
Yeah.
这周《哈莱姆往事》的预告片发布了，这是大卫和威廉·格里夫斯拍的一部纪录片，记录了哈莱姆文艺复兴几位参与者的重聚，我们在戛纳看过。
I wanted to also mention there's a trailer this week for Once Upon a Time in Harlem, which is David and William Greaves' documentary about a reunion of several participants of the Harlem Renaissance, which we saw at Cannes.
其实我不确定我们之前在回顾集或者后续节目中有没有提过， partly 因为这部电影最初是在圣丹斯首映的。
And actually, I don't know if we ever talked about it in our in our recap episode or any of our follow-up episodes, partially because the film originally premiered at Sundance Mhmm.
反响特别好。
And got raves.
Neon公司负责发行这部片子。
Neon is distributing the movie.
我想特别提一下，我觉得这是一部非常独特、珍贵的影像作品，据说这些对话素材已经尘封了五十年才被整理出来。
But I I wanted to put just put a circle around it and wanted to let people know that I thought it was a very cool, unique, special document that apparently has been fifty years in the making since these conversations were captured.
剪辑得特别出色，内容也特别有意思，现在看来，它几乎是奥斯卡最佳纪录片的头号热门。
And I thought it was very well edited and really interesting and, you know, is probably the presumptive favorite for best documentary at the Academy Awards right now.
你对这个有什么想分享的吗？
Anything you want to share about that?
我真的很喜欢看这部片子。
It's I really enjoyed seeing it.
就像你说的，它在呈现信息和素材时很有创意，但并不刻意炫耀手法。
And I I thought that, as you said, it's, you know, inventive without being showy of how it presents the the information and the footage that it has.
是的。
Yes.
剪辑得也很到位，我们已经看过了。
And well edited and we're checking out.
绝对值得一看。
So Definitely worth seeing.
好的。
Okay.
说到奥斯卡奖，有个新消息。
Some Academy Award news speaking of.
这个
The
学院公布了终身成就奖的得主。
Academy announced its Governor's Awards honorees.
是的。
Yes.
每年都会有一些人获得荣誉奥斯卡奖。
Now every year, a handful of people receive honorary Oscars.
对。
Mhmm.
过去，这些奖并不算作竞争性奖项。
Historically, you don't recognize those Oscars as competitive wins.
没错。
They're not.
它们不是竞争性奖项。
They're not competitive wins.
但这些人确实还是能拿到奥斯卡奖。
But they do still mean that these people get Oscars.
算是带星号的奥斯卡奖吧。
Some some Asterisk Oscars.
不过也行。
But okay.
是的。
Yeah.
这两个人都是老资格了，
Two of these people
对。
Yes.
他们到底什么时候才能拿到奥斯卡奖呢？
Are are long time, like, when will they get their Oscars?
为什么奥斯卡就是不认可他们？
Why won't the Oscars respect them?
对。
Mhmm.
你知道吗，我们等了这么久，就盼着看格伦·克洛斯拿一次奥斯卡。
You know, that we've been waiting a really long time to see one, Glenn Close Yeah.
这档节目早期的很多内容，都是围绕她的奥斯卡冲击展开的。
Who some of the earliest bits on this show were oriented around her Oscar campaigns.
我们都
We've all
或者说是那个妻子。
Or the wife.
我们都没看过《妻子》这部电影。
We've all not seen the wife.
你懂的。
You know?
我看过。
I have seen it.
你看过啊。
You've seen Yeah.
我是读过那本小说，还是只是买了没看？
Did I read the novel, or did I just purchase it and not read it?
我也说不准。
Couldn't tell you.
看过《妻子》的人只有我们这些奥斯卡播客主持人，还有22%的奥斯卡投票成员。
The only people who have seen the wife
是啊。
Yeah.
她已经八次获得提名了。
Are us, other Oscar podcasters, and 22% of the Oscar voting body.
没错。
Right.
她已经八次获得提名了。
She's been nominated eight times Yeah.
而且一次都没赢过，现在大家反而觉得她没获奖成了一种常态。
And has no wins, and it's become a bit that she hasn't won.
所以今天她在这里受到表彰，显然是过去四十年里最杰出的电影演员之一。
So she will be honored here, obviously one of the great screen actors the last forty years.
她拍过太多出色的作品了。
Done a lot of great work.
对。
Mhmm.
我也不知道该怎么看待这件事。
I I don't know what you do about this.
不过对她来说，这应该算是个好消息。
I guess this is great news for her.
但从另一个角度看，反而让人更觉得遗憾。
It makes it feel a little worse in a way.
我完全同意。
I completely agree.
我只是觉得，如果我是她，我闭上眼睛还能清晰地看到她的表情。
I just I think if I were her, I still I can see her face when I close my eyes.
我能看到她没拿到最佳女主角奖时的样子，那时候奖给了奥利维亚·科尔曼。
I can see her face not winning the Oscar for the wife when they dowed Olivia Coleman.
是的。
Yes.
那是一段特别出色的获奖感言。
One of the great speeches.
她大部分时间都挺住了，但还是有那么一瞬间，情绪差点崩了。
And, you know, she mostly holds it together, but there's kind of like an, there goes again moment.
虽然没像她之前输掉最佳女主角时那样，对着狗和薯条失态那么明显，但那个画面一直留在我心里。
It's not quite as bad as demeanor with the dog and the french fries after losing for the substance, but it stays with me.
所以，格伦·克洛斯她心里清楚。
So I Glenn Close knows.
你知道的。
You know?
在她内心深处，她根本不是冲着这个来的。
In her heart of hearts, this is not what she's out for.
是啊。
Yeah.
这事儿两面都有。
It cuts two ways.
对吧？
Right?
一方面，你可能会想，你再也没机会竞争了。
On the one hand, you can be like, well, you'll never compete again.
但另一方面，你也可能像保罗·纽曼那样，或者今年像汤姆·克鲁斯那样——拿了荣誉奖之后，紧接着演了一部电影，直接大放异彩，结果学院一看：哎呀，我们是不是给得太早了？
On the other hand, you could pull the Paul Newman or what may be the Tom Cruise this year where after you get an honorary Oscar, you have a part coming up in a movie, and you knock it out of the park, and then the Academy is like, whoops.
我们本该像当年对待保罗·纽曼那样，再正式奖赏你一次。
We gave you your honorary too soon.
我们准备用当年给保罗·纽曼的方式，好好表彰你。
We're ready to honor you in the way that they did Paul Newman.
我觉得接下来六到七个月，汤姆·克鲁斯的奥斯卡宣传攻势肯定少不了。
And I I think there's a very strong chance that we have six to seven months of Tom Cruise Oscar campaign coming our way.
宣传肯定是有的。
We certainly have campaign.
我们还没看过《Digger》，所以还不知道最终会不会成真。
We haven't seen Digger yet, so we don't know whether we will actually
不管这部电影卖不卖座，影评好坏，我觉得他现在的表现已经足够了。
I think regardless of if the movie is a hit or not, if it's a critical failure or not, I still think he's doing enough
是的。
Yeah.
他的表现一定会成为大家讨论的话题。
That that's gonna be a part of the conversation.
我突然想起来，格伦·克洛斯也出演了《Lebelon Eggra》。
I was reminded or remembered that Glenn Close is in Lebelon Eggra
对。
Mhmm.
这在接下来的奥斯卡讨论中几乎肯定会占一席之地
Which will also almost certainly be a part of the Oscar conversation
肯定会的。
It will.
接下来六七个月都会这样。
For the next six seven months.
我不觉得会持续那么久。
I don't think it'll running for that.
但这确实有帮助。
It's just it's useful.
你知道的，她会一直出现在公众视野里。
You know, she's she'll be around.
是的。
Mhmm.
你明白吧？
You know?
不知道这次活动是不是有点协同效应。
Wonder if there was a little bit of synergy in in this event.
大概不是吧，虽然每一份新闻稿都写着‘由劳力士联合呈现’，我本来以为……
Probably not a Presented in partnership with Rolex, which is included on every single press release, which I was
就是这些奖项。
like These awards.
明白了。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
明白了。
Okay.
我确实这么觉得。
I do.
我本来想跟你说，我想去参加学院奖颁奖礼，看看有没有兴趣。
I did wanna tell you I do wanna go to the Governor's Awards to see if interested.
不行。
No.
我开始找晚礼服了。
I started looking for dresses.
好的。
Okay.
对。
Yeah.
好。
Okay.
太好了。
Great.
我从来没去过。
I've never been.
我真的很想去。
I would really like to go.
我想去的一个原因是，下一个拿到荣誉奥斯卡奖的会是雷德利·斯科特。
One of the reasons I would like to go is the next person to get an honorary Oscar is Ridley Scott.
是的。
Yeah.
他可是我们最喜爱的导演之一。
He's one of our favorite directors.
不过他的作品确实参差不齐。
A checkered, though, his filmography may be.
他的
His
《幽灵高狗》？
Ghost high Dog?
那是什么？
What's what is it?
《狗星》是哪部？
What's Dog Stars.
星星。
Stars.
是的。
Yeah.
《狗星》。
Dog Stars.
《狗星》定于8月28日上映。
Dog encouraging August 28 release date.
你知道吗？
You know what?
我度假回来后，就
I'll be back from vacation, so I
谢谢你的理解。
appreciate it.
你会的。
You will.
我们接下来会聊聊这部电影。
We'll be podding about that movie.
这是雅各布·艾洛蒂主演的片子。
It's a Jacob Elordi film.
没错。
That's true.
他个子真高。
He's very tall.
确实。
He is.
他刚拍了一部新电影。
He's So got a new movie coming out.
我觉得今年这部片子可能拿不了最佳影片，但他之前有三部电影提名了最佳导演，分别是《角斗士》和《黑鹰坠落》。
I don't think it's gonna be contending for best picture this year, but he has three best director nominations for film and movies Gladiator and Black Hawk Down.
挺有意思的是，他当年没因为《异形》或《银翼杀手》这些经典作品获得提名，那些可都是他拍出的杰作啊。
Fascinating to think that he was not nominated for alien or blade runner or any number of the, you know, majestic classics that he has created over the years.
《火星救援》也提名了最佳影片，但他本人却没因这部片获得最佳导演提名。
Also had a Best Picture nomination for The Martian, but did not get nominated for Best Director for The Martian.
他长期以来一直是被严重忽视的电影导演大师。
He's historically been a very overlooked icon of film director.
他在影视行业里占据着举足轻重的地位。
And he's a huge, massive part of the industry.
他是最多产的电影人之一。
He is among the most prolific filmmakers.
他还创办了一家规模庞大的制作公司，叫Scott Free，是和他弟弟托尼一起合伙成立的。
He's also presides over a huge production company with Scott Free that he started with his brother Tony.
他堪称商业广告导演界的泰斗，后来也进军了电视剧领域。
He's, like, one of the dons of commercial directing, and he's gotten into television.
他绝对是好莱坞重量级的大人物。
Like, he's a huge, huge, huge, huge Hollywood figure.
影迷们都很爱他，但他始终没在主流奖项上真正突破过。
And I think among cinephiles is beloved, but he's never quite cracked this realm in any meaningful way.
所以
So
《角斗士》拿了最佳影片奖。
Well, Gladiator won best picture.
是的，确实如此。
It did.
但他没得奖，不过话说回来。
But he didn't, but still.
对啊。
Yeah.
那一年最佳导演是李安拿的吗？
And that was was that Ang Lee won for best director that year?
不是。
No.
2000年最佳导演到底是谁？
Who won who won for best director in 2000?
2000年最佳导演奥斯卡奖。
2000 best director Oscar.
去搜一搜吧。
Google Google.
哦，你不知道吗？
Oh, do you no.
应该是2001年的奥斯卡颁奖典礼。
It would be the two thousand and one Academy Awards.
我们整个社会都得好好想想这个问题。
We've we've got to figure this out as a society.
我不清楚。
I don't
我不知道为什么我脑子突然灵光了。
know why my brain is working.
索德伯格，因为《毒品网络》。
Soderbergh for traffic.
因为他有两个妈妈。
Because he had the he had the double moms.
没错。
That's right.
没错。
That's right.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
所以，我觉得这一点成就他确实配得上。
So, I mean, I I wouldn't take that one away from him.
在我看来，他该得奖的是《异形》和《银翼杀手》。
I to me, it's Alien and Blade Runner are the movies that where he should have been.
他本该拿奖的。
He should have won.
关于《末路狂花》里的瑟曼和露易丝，其实也有个挺有意思的说法，
There there's an interesting case for Them and Louise as well as one of his,
那是他导演生涯中最出色的作品之一。
you one of his great directorial chiefs.
《末路狂花》的一张剧照还被用作戛纳电影节的海报。
An image from Thelma and Louise was used as the poster for Cannes.
没错。
That's right.
没错。
That's right.
这让我想到哈里森·福特也没拿过奥斯卡奖，连荣誉奖都没有。
This reminded me that Harrison Ford also doesn't have an Oscar and doesn't have an honorary Oscar.
我怀疑是不是SAG奖让他连续两三年都没机会拿到荣誉奖。
And I wonder whether the SAG Awards kinda clipped him out of an honorary Oscar for at least two to three years.
那如果他一辈子都没拿过奥斯卡，又怎么样呢？
So what if he ties with no Oscar?
哦，别盼着哈里森早点走吧。
Oh, let's let hope death upon Harrison.
我觉得他身体好得很。
He seems hale and hearty to me.
他现在状态很不错。
He's he's doing great.
但话说回来，我们终究得接受人会老去这个事实。
But listen, we gotta, you know, accept mortality.
如果你能穿越回去，会不会给他颁一个《红浩克》的奖？
Would you go back in time and give him one for Red Hulk?
我倒是觉得，那段哼唱实在难听。
I have That humming was really bad.
那段真的
That was really
樱花场景里，他只是那样站着，看得人心里发酸。
cherry blossoms, that scene where he's just that was tough.
那是整个漫威宇宙最糟糕的时刻。
That was that was the nadir of the Yeah.
整个漫威系列体验中最差的一刻。
Of the entire MCU's experience.
还有几位荣誉提名的奥斯卡得主。
Couple of other honorary nominee honorary Oscar receivers.
一个是弗洛伊德·诺曼，他是一位传奇动画师。
One is Floyd Norman, who Yeah.
他六七十年代为迪士尼工作，参与过《森林王子》《欢乐满人间》《森林王子》《罗宾汉》等多部经典影片，这些作品都出自福克斯。
A hallowed animator who worked on Disney films in the sixties and seventies and whose credits are on Sword and the Stone, Mary Poppins, The Jungle Book, Robin Hood, a lot of movies that Hot Fox.
他确实是福克斯团队的一员。
He he was a part of the Hot Fox.
去年我和女儿在Vidiots影院看了《森林王子》，弗洛伊德当时也在现场。
So I actually went to go see The Jungle Book with my daughter at Vidiots last year, and Floyd was there.
他还上台讲了话。
And he spoke.
他接受了Vidiots的程序员阿曼达的采访，两人聊得特别精彩，非常引人入胜。
He was interviewed by Amanda, the programmer at Vidiots, and they had an amazing conversation, fascinating conversation.
Floyd谈了很多他直接为沃尔特工作、参与更高层次创作的经历。
Floyd talked a lot about working directly with Walt and getting involved at a higher level.
他在《森林王子》里被提升到了一个更核心的动画监督角色。
He sort of was was, like, bumped up on The Jungle Book to more of a kind of supervising role as an animator.
Floyd是那个年代极少有的非裔美国动画师之一。
And, you know, Floyd is one of the very few African American animators from that period in time in history.
我们刚才还在开玩笑，提到那部《狐狸与猎狗》。
And those movies we were just joking about the hot fox
还有啊，
and and
《罗宾汉》。
Robin Hood.
还有《石中剑》《森林王子》《罗宾汉》，那一连串的影片。
And that sword in the stone jungle book, Robin Hood, that stretch of films.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得千禧一代这个说法挺模糊的，我也说不清。
I think till millennials is a very big I don't know.
我不太明白为什么，但那些电影真的深深印在我们心里了，可能是因为我们小时候电视上放得比较多吧。
I don't quite know why, but a lot of those movies really imprinted on us, and maybe they were shown on television more when we were growing up or something.
它们算不上四五十年代最经典的迪士尼动画片。
But they're not the most iconic Disney animated classics from the forties and fifties.
它们属于第二梯队，但我特别喜欢。
They're in that second tier, but I love them.
我看过最多的也就是这些了。
Those are the ones I've seen among the most moot
我想，会不会是因为VHS录像带发行的时间正好赶上我们小时候，因为我们租过《森林王子》。
I mean, I wonder whether it was just that the VHS releases coincided with when because we rented Jungle Book.
我们当时和表兄弟们一起去度假。
We went on vacation with my cousins.
我们一直从附近的录像店反复租《森林王子》，整整一个月都在看这部片子。
And I think we just kept re renting it from the local video store and just did Jungle Book for a month straight.
所以我想，可能只是因为那个时间段我们能接触到的资源就是这样。
So I you know, maybe just timeline and what was available to us.
我觉得这个说法挺有道理的。
I think that's a good theory.
听起来确实如此。
That sounds right.
他参与的第一部电影是《睡美人》，很多人认为那是迪士尼所有动画中最精美的一部，所以他获得表彰真是再合适不过了。
His first the first film he worked on was Sleeping Beauty, which many people think is the most gorgeously animated of all the Disney So that's very cool that he's being honored.
而欧文·塔尔伯格奖将授予克里斯汀·瓦宏和帕梅拉·卡万，她们是资深制片人，多年来与众多创作者合作，特别关注LGBTQ题材的电影人。
And then the Irving Thalberg Award is going to Christine Vachon and Pamela Cavanagh, who are longtime producers and have worked with a huge number of people over the years with a real focus on LGBTQ filmmakers.
她们的制片公司叫Killer Films。
Killer Films is their production company.
她们至今依然非常活跃。
They're still very active.
是的
Yeah.
他们现在还在持续制作影片，我一点都不意外，未来十年内他们很可能拿到最佳影片提名——今年他们可是横扫了圣丹斯电影节，之前还做过《红磨坊》《一小时照片》《不朽的贝蒂》《五月与十二月》这些片子。
They're still making I will not be surprised if they rack up a best picture nomination in the next ten years given, like, they were all over Sundance this year, but they've worked on Hedwig and the Angry Inch, One Hour Photo, the company, Notorious Betty Page, they produced May December.
对
Right.
他们还制作了《唯物主义者》。
Materialist, they produced.
他们确实是顶尖的制片人，不过说实话，我觉得这个奖颁得有点早了，毕竟他们还处在事业巅峰期，年龄也说不准，但感觉还没到该拿这个奖的时候。
They they they're they're great producers and But and really well this actually felt I don't actually don't know how old they are, but I was like, this actually feels a little premature just because they're still in their heyday.
我觉得没问题。
I it's fine.
颁一些不算正式但很有意义的奖，也挺好的。
Give people awards that don't totally count but are also very nice.
塞缪尔·戈德温奖倒是有点不一样。
The Thawberg is slightly different.
确实如此。
It is.
我觉得挺好的，趁他们还在创作的时候就给予认可。
And so I I think it's cool and recognize people while they're still making stuff.
我同意。
I agree.
而且他们
And they
也没每年都颁给福尔伯格，这个选择挺有意思的。
don't give it to Fallberg every year too, so that was an interesting choice.
四位非常出色的人。
So four great people.
希望今年秋天学院能正式表彰他们。
Hopefully, we can see them be honored this fall by the academy.
你对把颁奖典礼的这部分重新放回电视直播有什么看法？
And what are your thoughts on putting that part of the ceremony back on the show, on the TV show?
因为现在这些事都发生在秋天，但电视上根本不会播。
Because now it's something that happens in the fall and they don't air any of that.
对。
Right.
以前这些奖项都是在直播时颁发的。
They used to give away those awards on the telecast.
我觉得可以做个简短一点、制作精良的版本，好。
I think you could probably do like a shorter, more produced version Mhmm.
在节目里放。
On the show.
就像他们处理追思环节那样，弄成一个单独的段落就行。
You know, in the way they do for in memoriams and other sorts of like, it could be a segment.
没问题。
No problem.
我倒是挺希望这么做的。
I would have liked it.
我的意思是，记得阿尔特曼那次，他领奖时发表了特别精彩的演讲，还有波耶尔也拿过类似的奖。
I mean, you know, there's a very memorable Altman one where he received one and gave a great speech, and, you know, Poirier got one like this.
我觉得洛梅特也拿过这样的奖。
I think Lomet got one like this.
我觉得把这部分放进直播里的好处在于，它能让年轻人接触到电影历史——就算有点枯燥，但他们听到一个名字，就会记在脑子里，然后忍不住想：这个人到底做过什么？
Like, a lot of to me, the one thing I like about putting it on the telecast is that component of film history where young people watching it, even if it's a little bit boring, they hear a name and the name sticks to their brain, and then they think, like, well, what did that person do?
我该回头去看看他的作品吗？
What And should I go back and look at?
现在我们正进入一个阶段，像克里斯汀·巴尚这样的人也开始获得荣誉奥斯卡奖了。
And we're entering a period where, like, people like Christine Bashan are receiving honorary Oscars.
他们的电影生涯其实离现在并不远。
We're like, their film history is fairly recent.
你知道的。
You know?
她二十年前就在制作托德·海因斯的电影了，这些作品现在年轻人依然会想去看，这可不是百年前的老电影了。
She was producing Todd Haynes movies, you know, from twenty five years ago that people will wanna check out and that, like, isn't century old film history.
这算是比较近的事了，而且能成为一个入口。
It's relatively recent, and it can be a portal.
所以我挺赞成这个想法，也许可以
So I do like the idea of potentially
对。
Yeah.
在主直播中更多地突出这部分内容。
Spotlighting it more on the main telecast.
但我认为，再过几年，我们可能都会在YouTube上看这些内容。
But I do think also, you know, we're entering a territory in a few years where we'll all be on YouTube.
所以我觉得，与其搞个单独的颁奖礼，不如至少把完整的演讲放到YouTube上，这样大家才会主动去看，也更容易引起兴趣。
So I think it's honestly better to do if not to do a separate ceremony or at least to have the speech in full, you know, on YouTube and you kinda get people to to check it out and you pique their interest.
但这得让人愿意看完一场现在基本只被直播的完整典礼。
But that requires holding their interest for the entirety of a ceremony that's now just being livestreamed.
所以我不确定，是不是真希望奥斯卡最后变成一堆短视频，大家随便点开看看，比如第二
So I don't know how I feel about the Oscars becoming like a just a bunch of clips that everyone checks out, you know, two
年以后。
years.
我们最终会走向那里。
That's where we'll go.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，我们仍然可以运营奥斯卡频道的内容
I you know, we're still available to program the Oscars channel
对。
Mhmm.
在YouTube TV上。
On YouTube TV.
但这确实是奥斯卡频道绝佳的内容安排。
But this would be a great programming on the Oscars channel.
关键是怎么让人愿意主动打开来看。
It's just how do you get people to turn it on in the first place.
这挺有挑战的，因为想把这做成一档电视节目成本更高，但同时也可能带来更多的收入。
It's challenging because it's more expensive to try to make this a TV show, but it also could mean more revenue.
是的。
Yeah.
所以对我们来说，奥斯卡这边的沟通方式会怎么调整？如果这不再只是六个月的宣传期，而变成一个持续六个月的外部内容项目，大量相关内容不断推出，会不会反而影响直播收视率？这值得好好研究一下。
So we'll actually, what happens for our purposes in terms of how the Oscars communicates, and if it becomes a little bit more of like not just the six month campaign, but a six month external programming venture, you know, where there's just, a lot of stuff coming out about this and whether or not that hurts the telecast itself is probably worth exploring.
六个月太长了，那都占了一年的一半了。
I mean, six months is too long because that's, like, half the year.
那样一来，就没什么特别感了，也不像个事件了。
And then it doesn't feel special anymore, and it's not an event.
不过，要是从 Governors Awards 开始，接着推出电影、活动，再定在二月初，我们是不是已经定好时间了？
But, you know, if you kick it off with the governor's awards and then, you know, movies, events, and you do early February, is that what we've decided is the
就是第二周。
right The week.
第二周。
The second week.
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