《妈妈咪呀！》遇上《陌生人》！这是一场电影互换！

我非常喜欢《冰血暴》。

I like I like Fargo very much.

是的。

Yep.

你知道吗，我也很喜欢《英国病人》，但我认为那集《宋飞正传》很无礼。

You know, I just also I do like the English Patient, and I thought that Seinfeld episode was rude.

我觉得《英国病人》还行。

I thought the English Patient was okay.

我知道。

I know.

你对它太刻薄了。

You were mean about it.

你就说这是大卫·利恩的抄袭，确实如此。

You were just like, this is David Lean rip rip off, which like, yeah.

没关系。

That's okay.

明白。

Know.

我真的很喜欢安东尼·曼吉拉。

And I really like Anthony Mangela.

有时候，我们只是想再次制作好的作品。

I Sometimes we just wanna make good things again.

我明白。

I do get that.

还有拉尔夫·费因斯。

Also, Rafe Fiennes.

我的意思是，克里斯、斯科特·托马斯、那只野兔，还有希罗多德，嗯。

You I mean and Chris and Scott Thomas and the hare and the Herodotus Mhmm.

还有风，还有那盏灯熄灭了。

And the wind and the the lamp has gone out.

我正在写

And I'm writing in the

黑暗。

darkness.

灯灭了，我在黑暗中写作。

The lamp has gone out, and I am writing in the darkness.

这就像

It's like

这些不是洞见。

These are not insights.

它们只是电影里的内容。

They're just things that are in the movie.

但它们确实做得很好。

Well but they're they're well done.

它们很美。

They're beautiful.

2023年，我们进行了一次三方电影交换。

2023, we had a three way movie swap.

嗯。

Mhmm.

一种三人关系，你可能会这么说，和已故的伟大博比·瓦格纳。

A menage, you might say, with Bobby Wagner, the late great Bobby Wagner.

博比，你在哪里？

Where are you, Bobby?

博比。

Bobby.

希望你一切安好。

I hope you're well.

卡萨布兰卡，嗯。

Casablanca Mhmm.

鲍勃从未看过这部电影。

Which Bob had never seen.

是的。

Yeah.

《美国派：爱情真经》，我觉得你们俩都没看过，还有《间谍少年》，我们之前也没看过。

The In Laws, which I think neither of you guys had seen, and Spy Kids, which we had not seen before.

《间谍少年》。

Spy Kids.

我说这话是带着感情的，这是鲍勃出品的一部Z世代经典。

I say this with affection, a Gen Z classic from Bob.

那集真有意思。

That was that was a fun episode.

然后不知为什么，我们停止制作这些剧集了。

And then for some reason, we stopped doing these episodes.

嗯，鲍勃的最后一集就像一场单向的电影交换，

Well, Bob's last episode was like a one way movie swap,

那就是

which was

《怪物史莱克》。

Shrek.

是的。

Yes.

而我们之前看过，但这次重新观看并认真对待了。

And which we had seen, but that we revisited and took seriously.

是的。

Yes.

现在每当我在这个世界上遇到《海绵宝宝》时，我都会给鲍比发短信。

And now I I text Bobby about Shrek anytime I encounter it in the world.

我想我也需要给鲍比发短信聊聊《海绵宝宝》。

I also need to text him about SpongeBob, I think.

哦，他知道这件事。

Oh, He knows about that.

克雷格·霍尔贝克也知道这件事。

Craig Horlbeck also knows about that.

克雷格·霍尔贝克和鲍勃是那两个对《海绵宝宝》特别着迷的人。

Craig Horlbeck and Bob were the two people who were like, SpongeBob

是的。

Yeah.

对我来说，就像2017年他们刚来这里时的韩·索罗。

To me is basically Han Solo in 2017 when they first started working here.

那时我意识到自己正在变老。

And I that was when I knew I was getting older.

那是我人生中的一个关键时刻。

That was that was a critical moment in my life.

人们。

People.

是的。

Yeah.

鲍勃可能得回来出演《怪物史莱克5》。

Bob might have to come back for Shrek five.

但那要到明年了。

But it's not till next year.

对吧？

Right?

他们推迟到2027年了？

They pushed it to 2027?

哦，是吗？

Oh, did they?

我想是的。

I believe so.

《怪物史莱克5》2027年。

Shrek five 2027.

是的。

Yeah.

《怪物史莱克5》延期了。

Shrek five delayed.

因为他们得重做吧？还是正在重做动画？因为没人喜欢它原来的样子？

Because didn't they have to, like, redo are they redoing the animation because no one liked how it looked?

比如，这是真的吗？

Like Is that true?

我不确定是不是我记错了。

I don't know whether I'm making that up.

不是，你的意思是他们不喜欢那样？第一部电影就是这样的。

Not What do mean they don't like how that's what happened with the first movie.

不是。

No.

第一部电影的时候，我们觉得得提升动画质量。

The first movie, were like, well, we gotta improve the animation quality.

然后《怪物史莱克2》

And then Shrek two

看起来好多了。

looks much better.

好吧。

Okay.

所以我看到《怪物史莱克5》的上映日期定在2027年6月。

So I'm reading Shrek five release date to June 2027.

2027年6月。

June 2027.

那真是

That's a

很久以后了。

long ways away.

那我们能做什么呢？

Well What will we do?

作为新电影的一部分，它并没有提到任何内容。

I'm as part of the new movie, it doesn't it doesn't say any.

它什么都没说。

It doesn't say anything.

所以也许我只是记起了第一部电影的内容。

So maybe I'm just remembering from the first movie.

还有，最近他们重制的是索尼克吗？

And then also, what was the recent was it Sonic who they redid?

是的。

Yes.

粉丝的强烈抗议。

The the fan outcry.

好吧。

Okay.

是的。

Yes.

然后说实话，这个决定非常成功，因为他们重新设计了索尼克的角色，现在已经拍了三部《索尼克》电影，赚了巨额票房。

And then that honestly turned out to be a great choice because they redesigned the Sonic character, and now they've made three Sonic movies which have made a shit ton of money.

是的。

Yeah.

我在弧光影院看了第一部。

I saw the first one at the Arc Light.

它是一部

It was

不错的儿童电影。

not bad for a kids movie.

不知道爱丽丝会不会喜欢。

Wonder if Alice would like that.

索尼克？

Sonic?

我不知道。

I don't know.

你想把它带进你的生活吗？

Do you wanna bring that into your life?

这算是通往吉姆·凯瑞的入门吧。

Well, that's an on ramp to Jim Carrey.

那我们怎么才能让吉姆·凯瑞更多地进入我的生活呢？

So then how do we get more into Jim Carrey in my house?

好的。

Okay.

这可能不错。

That could be good.

我买了《星球大战》百科全书。

I bought the Star Wars encyclopedia.

哦。

Oh.

是这样的

Which is

有这么大。

like this big.

是的。

Yeah.

我们只是看看

And we just look at

我每天都看。

it every day.

我们逐个角色地看。

We just go through every character.

但里面有很多剧透。

But there's lot of spoilers in it.

我们还没看完电影。

We haven't finished the films.

但天啊，《星球大战》太棒了。

But, god, Star Wars, it's so good.

你确定我不能在超级碗期间带孩子们去你家，让他们一起看《星球大战》和 psychic I

Are you sure that I can't just bring my children over to your house during the Super Bowl and they can just all look at the Star Wars and psychic I

我不希望你的动物把这本精美的书撕坏。

don't want your animals tearing this beautiful book apart.

赛，我不确定我是不是觉得他可以

Sai, I don't think I don't I'm not sure if he can

不。

No.

赛。

Sai.

我的意思是，我

I mean I

我认为他根本不可能信任他做这件事。

don't think he even can trust him with this.

我觉得赛可能永远都不会被允许读书。

I don't think Sai will ever be allowed to read a book.

可怜他。

Bless him.

我喜欢

I like

诺克斯会喜欢的。

Nox would enjoy it.

它非常丰富多彩、有趣又复杂。

It's very colorful and interesting and complicated.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们过去做过这些电影交换，部分原因是想彼此分享一些东西。

So we we've we've done these movie swaps in the past in part to kind of share something with with each other.

这是一次正经的电影交换。

And this is a proper movie swap.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你没看过这部电影，我也没看过。

You've not seen the movie and I've not seen the movie before.

我认为，从某种意义上说，它们非常能体现我们的品味。

And they are, I think, in some ways very indicative of our taste.

这么说公平吗？

Is that fair to say?

是的。

Yes.

也许《妈妈咪呀》这边稍微复杂一点。

Maybe a little complicated on the Mamma Mia side.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，那里发生的事情太多了。

There's, I mean, there's a lot going on there.

《妈妈咪呀》这部电影被提出来，我认为它启发了2008年的讨论，因为我们一直在谈论阿曼达·塞弗里德，主要是因为她在《女仆》和《安妮·李的遗嘱》中的表演。

Mamma Mia came up and was, I think, the inspiration for 2008 because we've been talking about Amanda Seyfried a lot because of her work in the housemaid and testament of Anne Lee.

我们原本希望她能获得奥斯卡提名。

We were hoping she would get an Oscar nomination.

我们是她的忠实粉丝。

We're big fans.

而你却从未看过她的任何代表作，包括《妈妈咪呀》和《悲惨世界》。

And you have just not seen any of her core work, including both Mamma Mia and Les Miserables.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯，现在我看了。

Well, now I have.

所以《妈妈咪呀》一直被提起。

And so Mamma Mia kept coming up.

然后我想，我确实看过这两部《妈妈咪呀》。

And then I think so I I have seen both Mamma Mia's.

嗯。

Mhmm.

《妈妈咪呀》电影中有某些部分对我非常重要。

There are certain parts of the Mamma Mia films that are very important to me.

比如，它和《理智与情感》处于同一水平吗？

Like, is it on a level with Sense and Sensibility?

让我说明白一点。

Let me be clear.

不。

No.

它对我来说有像《理智与情感》或《四个婚礼和一个葬礼》那样的重要性吗？或者那些电影中的任何一部？

Is it as important to me as Sense and Sensibility or Four Weddings and a Funeral or the, you know, any of those?

不。

No.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但它在流行文化中具有重要意义。

But it's pop culturally significant.

确实如此。

It is.

我觉得《陌生人》也是这样，虽然肯定不在同一个层次上。

So I feel that The Strangers is too, though definitely not at the same level.

我选择《陌生人》有几个原因。

And I chose The Strangers for a couple of reasons.

其中一个原因是，我认为马特提出的这个主题想法非常有趣，而且在这里有交叉。

One of them is a thematic idea that I think is really interesting that Matt that, like, crosses over here.

另一点是，我觉得这可能是本世纪最具影响力的恐怖电影之一。

The other thing is that I feel like this is quite possibly one of the most influential horror movies of this century.

但这并不意味着我认为它是最好的之一。

Now that doesn't mean I think it's one of the best.

也不意味着我认为它是一部没有缺陷的电影。

It doesn't mean I think it is a movie without flaw.

我认为它非常有艺术性且引人入胜，也许正因为近年来太多人模仿它，它反而在过去的五到十年里没有得到应有的关注。

I do think it's very artful and interesting, and I think it maybe doesn't get as much love as it did for a like a five to ten year period of time because so many people have been ripping it off in recent years.

当然，它也延续了恐怖电影史和真实犯罪史中的一个重要部分。

And it, of course, is iterating on like a huge part of horror history too and and real life crime history.

但我认为它会是一个适合你观看的有趣作品，因为它不是超自然题材。

But I thought it would be an interesting one for you to watch because it is not supernatural.

它既是，又不是，它更接近于我们之前讨论过的、你所喜欢或至少能从中获取信息的类型。

It is and it is not it is really more in the realm of what we've talked about that you enjoy or at least can find information.

必须纠正它。

Must rectify it.

它不是超自然的，也不血腥。

It's not it's not supernatural and it's not gory.

是的。

Yes.

它令人不安，但充满敬意。

It is it is fucked up with respect.

我当时觉得我真的很喜欢它，但也被它深深震撼了。

And I was like, I really liked it and I was also really messed up by it.

我好几次差点给你发消息，说：‘操你。’

And I almost texted you several times being like, fuck you.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这是一部充满挑衅意味的电影。

It is a fuck you kind of a movie.

但那种方式是我确实享受的。

But in a way that I did enjoy.

有时候当情节变得过于血腥或超自然时，我并不是害怕它们。

I didn't feel sometimes when things get too gory or too supernatural, it's not that I'm scared of them.

我只是感到烦躁。

I'm irritated.

所以我认为，随着我看过的恐怖片越来越多，我意识到真正让我困扰的并不是恐惧。

And so I think what I've learned as I've watched more and more horror movies is that it's actually not fear that is my issue.

只是有些东西我根本不想看。

It's just things I don't really like watching.

嗯。

Mhmm.

不适感。

Discomfort.

就是那种让人觉得恶心的东西。

Just like grossness.

我只是觉得烦。

I'm just kind I'm irritated.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但我这次并没有感到烦。

And I was not irritated by this.

我害怕了，但真的很享受。

I I was scared, but not but but but really enjoyed it.

所以这是一部2008年的电影，这有点不寻常。

So it's it's unusual that it's a 2,008 movie.

显然，这部电影是在2006年和2007年拍摄的，然后在架子上放了一年。

Apparently, this movie was shot in 2006, 2007 and just sat on the shelf for a year.

所以纯粹是巧合，我当时只是在看一份2008年电影的长列表，这才选中了《陌生人》。

So it's just by circumstance that it kinda and I was just looking at a long list of o eight movies, and that's how it landed on the strangers.

因此，出于偶然，我们谈到了这部电影。

And so by circumstance, we come to talk about it.

但它是由布莱恩·贝蒂诺编剧并执导的。

But it is written and directed by Brian Bertino.

这是他的导演处女作。

It is his directorial debut.

这是他最早写的剧本之一。

It's one of the first scripts he wrote.

他将它提交给了镍币奖学金或尼克·镍币补助金比赛。

He submitted it to the Nickel fellowship or Nick Nickel Grant contest.

我想他获得了第三名，但引起了注意。

I think he came in third place, but it got noticed.

他接到了超级制片人罗伊·李的电话，后者后来成为好莱坞最具影响力的独立制片人之一。

He got a call from super producer Roy Lee, who's gone on to be arguably the most successful independent producer in Hollywood.

去年，他制作了《我的世界》和《武器》，他擅长发现素材并早早与年轻人才合作，堪称世界级。

Last year, he was behind Minecraft and weapons, and he's, like, kind of world class at locating material and getting in early with young talent.

但这个例子说明他读了这个剧本。

But so this was an example of he read the script.

他认为这个剧本很不错。

He thought the script was good.

他把它带了进来。

He brought it in.

这部电影的演员阵容非常小。

The movie is got a very small cast.

是的。

Mhmm.

它主要只有三位值得一提的演员。

It basically has only three actors of note in it.

故事讲述了一对夫妇，克里斯汀和詹姆斯，他们本打算在家庭度假屋度过一个轻松的周末。

It's about a couple, Kristen and James, who are expecting a relaxing weekend in a family vacation home.

但在一个晚上参加完婚礼后，他们之间发生了一些尴尬的情况，凌晨三点，有人敲门；凌晨四点，又有人敲门，一个站在阴影中的陌生女子来找她的朋友。

But after a wedding one night where a kind of awkward situation happens between them, they find at 03:00 in the morning a knock at their door 04:00 in the morning, a knock at their door from a strange woman who stands in the shadows who is looking for a friend.

这是他们与陌生人多次遭遇中的第一次。

This is the first of several encounters with strangers Mhmm.

这些邻居最终在整晚中不断纠缠并恐吓他们。

In the neighborhood who then ultimately come to haunt and terrorize them throughout the evening.

所以你说你喜欢这部电影。

So you said that you enjoyed it.

是的。

Yeah.

我来先说，我很快讲一下。

I I'll put my I'll I'll just go first very quickly.

我是在电影院看的这部电影。

I saw this movie in movie theaters.

我之前对它一无所知。

I didn't really know anything about it.

我只看过预告片，就这些。

I'd seen the trailer and that was it.

我深受这部电影的影响，因为它在毫无了解和信息的情况下令人极度不安。

And I was deeply affected by it because it is extremely unnerving with no knowledge and no information.

而且因为当时恐怖片的潮流和偏好，大多是那种非常精致的恐怖经典翻拍。

And because of kind of where horror was at this time and what it was favoring, which was a lot of, like, very slick remakes of horror classics.

那时，《德州电锯杀人狂》的翻拍版正在上映。

This was at a time when, like, Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake was happening.

《猛鬼街》的翻拍版也在上映。

The Nightmare on Elm Street remake was happening.

《黑暗侵袭》的翻拍版也在上映。

The Last House on the Left remake was happening.

这种Platinum Dunes时代的影片，再加上当时流行的虐杀类恐怖片，比如《电锯惊魂》和《食人魔》，这些电影在主流恐怖片中也非常受欢迎。

This kind of Platinum Dunes era, plus there was also a kind of torture porn, Saw, Hostel, you know, those films were also very popular in the horror mainstream.

而且这，这

And this is And this

是《恶搞周末》翻拍版上映后的一年。

is a year after the Funny Games remake.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

Exactly.

值得注意。

Notable.

完全正确。

Totally.

我们也可以谈谈《Funny Games》，以及它们在哪些方面相似，又在哪些方面截然相反。

And we can talk about Funny Games too here and kind of like the ways in which they're similar and the ways in which they are polar opposites.

对。

Yeah.

但与《Funny Games》不同的是，这部电影几乎完全没有元叙事。

But unlike Funny Games, this movie could not be less meta.

它纯粹是一部体验型电影，探讨的是：如果这种事情发生在你身上，你会有什么感受？

It is it is a pure experiential movie of what how would you feel if this happened to you?

而且它深深地震撼了我。

And it it just hit me very hard.

我之所以觉得讨论这部电影很好，另一个原因是《陌生人》第三部这个周末上映了。

The other reason why I thought it would be good to talk about it is the third Strangers movie comes out this weekend.

哦，是吗？

Oh, does.

哦，凯特·麦纳布会非常兴奋的。

Oh, Kate Katie McNabb is gonna be so excited.

她，是的。

She yeah.

她会很喜欢这些的。

She's gonna enjoy those.

她总是给我发消息，说：你为什么还不看《陌生人》？

She texts me all the time being like, why aren't you watching the strangers?

这是我的一个最好的朋友。

This is one my best friends.

这对我来说太好笑了，因为我真的觉得那些电影根本没法看。

That's so funny to me because I honestly think those movies are, like, unwatchable.

它们就像是对《陌生人》这部电影的翻拍或前传。

They're like they're remake slash origin stories behind this strangers movie.

之前还出过一部续集。

There was a sequel to

这部电影在2014年出过续集。

this movie in 2014.

问题就在这儿。

That's the problem.

我们根本不需要什么前传。

We don't need an origin story.

那咱们来聊聊吧。

Well, let's talk about it.

我同意。

I agree.

这正是这部电影如此出色的原因之一。

That's part of what is so great about this movie.

所以这部电影仿佛凭空出现。

So this movie is kind of exists out of nowhere.

是的。

Yeah.

它确实如此。

And It is.

它让你感到不安，仅此而已。

It leaves you feeling unsettled, and that's it.

所以，你知道的，告诉我你对它还有什么其他想法。

So I you know, tell me what else you thought about it.

对。

Yeah.

所以这部电影讲的是，最可怕的事情其实就是未知。

So this movie is about the scariest thing of all is, like, not knowing.

不知道正在发生什么，不知道面具后面是谁，不知道门后是谁，不知道画面外是什么，不知道为什么两个人不能结婚，不知道为什么剧情如此缺乏背景交代。

Not knowing what's going on, not knowing who's behind the mask, and not knowing who's behind the door, not knowing what's on the outside of the frame, not knowing why two people can't get married, not knowing why there's there's so little exposition.

几乎完全没有起源故事，几乎可以说是99%都没有。

There is almost almost there is like 99% no origin story.

我想谈谈那剩下的1%。

And I I wanna talk about the 1% that comes in.

正如你所说，这个剧组的演员阵容非常有限。

It as you said, it's a pretty limited cast.

只有三个你能认出来的人。

Three people that you recognize.

还有其他一些人，但你只看到他们戴着面具。

There are few other people, but you only see them in masks.

它运用了阴影、角度、门，制作和剪辑得极其精良，但这部电影的精髓更多在于你没看到的东西，而非你看到的。

It uses shadows and, like and and angles and doors and and it it incredibly well constructed, and edited, but it is as much about what you don't see as what you see.

而你所看到的，再次因为这种简陋和不确定性而令人恐惧——不知道面具后面是谁，或者那个人究竟在哪里。

And then what you do see is, again, scary by like this bareness and the not knowing who is behind that mask or, you know, where the where the person is.

所以我认为这一点确实很有效，我当时就觉得很有感染力。

So I do think that that is I thought it was effective.

我很欣赏这一点。

I appreciate it.

我观看时一直在欣赏他们所做的电影制作选择，以及他们如何构建影片来营造恐怖感。

Like, I was watching it and appreciating the filmmaking choices that they made, how they constructed it to to be scary.

我好几次不由自主地向前倾身，心里想着：摘下面具吧，摘下面具吧——这恰恰说明他们成功地营造了那场戏的紧张感，也理解了那种原始的冲动，也就是你真正想让我们知道的东西。

And found myself leaning forward several times being like, take off the mask, take off the mask, which is, you know, a a credit to them being able to build the tension in that scene and understand that primal urge, which is like what you really want us to know.

而正是这种未知，才让人如此恐惧。

And it is just so scary that you don't know.

这部电影在视觉上和情感上都非常克制。

It's a very withholding film of, like, both visually and emotionally.

所以，当然，我非常喜欢它。

So, of course, I loved it.

而且说实话，如果它真的

And well, I mean, truly, like, if it were

真有趣，你刚才一直在谈你的婚姻，杰克。

Well, it's so funny that you were just going off on your marriage, Jack.

因为这实际上就是这部电影核心的情感驱动力。

Because, like, that's, like, kind of a it's like the essential motivating emotional Yeah.

这部电影的主角是一对由斯科特·斯皮德曼和莉芙·泰勒饰演的夫妇，他们当晚刚参加完一场婚礼。

Identity of the movie is this couple played by Scott Speedman and Liv Tyler who have come from a wedding that night.

斯科特·斯皮德曼的角色在当晚向莉芙·泰勒的角色求婚，但她拒绝了。

And Scott Speedman's Speedman's character proposes to Liv Tyler's character that evening, and she declines.

她拒绝了他。

She turns him down.

是的。

Yeah.

这引发了这对夫妇之间的尴尬与紧张，他们正返回斯科特·斯皮德曼角色童年时的家族度假屋。

And then that sets this this awkwardness, this tension between this couple who are returning to Scott Speedman's character's family childhood vacation home.

对。

Right.

那应该是世界上最安全的地方。

And that should be the safest place in the world.

而且这一切都是为了营造一种接受的氛围，浴室里有玫瑰花瓣和好几瓶香槟，厨房里也有，你知道的，这让我有些疑问。

And it's and it's staged for an acceptance and there are rose petals and multiple bottles of champagne in the bathroom and also in the kitchen, which, you know, I had some questions about.

我的意思是，就只是些浴缸泡泡而已。

I mean Just like some some bath bubbles.

当然。

Sure.

你知道的？

You know?

而且，这里本该是一个充满温暖与庆祝的地方。

And like, it's it's supposed to be a place of, like, warmth and celebration.

但相反，他们俩早已疏远，彼此不说话。

And instead, they're already, like, very remote and not speaking to each other.

这部电影对斯科特·斯皮德曼这个角色的处理非常聪明，它构建了一种让你一度以为问题出在他身上的氛围。

And the movie does a very smart thing with the Scott Speedman character, which it constructs in a way where you think it could be him for a while.

是的

Mhmm.

你在想，这是否是因为她拒绝了他而进行的报复。

And you're wondering whether this is a revenge for the fact that she said no.

是的

Mhmm.

而且这也为电影最终揭示的主题做了铺垫。

And and and then that also sets up the ultimate reveal of what the movie is about.

它其实根本不是关于复仇的。

And that it's like it's not really about revenge at all.

它什么也不是。

It's about it's about nothing.

是的

Mhmm.

这是随机的。

It's random.

就是你不知道。

It's that you don't know.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，没错，我觉得这既吓人又酷。

So, yeah, I thought it was gnarly and cool.

是的。

Yeah.

它说的是，面具很吓人。

It's it's an interesting Masks are scary.

我觉得面具并不可怕，但这里用得非常好。

I don't they're scary, and they're used well here.

确实如此。

They are.

有三个陌生人，是的。

There's so there are three strangers Yeah.

谁来到这个家。

Who come to this home.

他们都戴着某种面具。

They all wear masks of a certain kind.

那位主要的陌生人，那位高个子男性陌生人，戴着一种麻袋样的面具，让人联想到那个畏惧日落的小镇。

The the the lead stranger, the tall male stranger wears a kind of a sack mask that recalls, like, the town that dreaded sundown.

这有点像是在向其他电影里你可能见过的恐怖面具致敬。

There's like it's a it's a callback to, like, some other scary mask you might see in movies.

你知道，它很熟悉，但又不像幽灵面具那样已经被商业化到彻底泛滥的地步。

You know, it's, like, familiar, but it's also not like the ghost face mask, like, commercialized into, like, total oblivion at this point.

有一幕是莉芙·泰勒在厨房里，然后他突然出现在走廊上。

You're still there's there is one shot where Liv Tyler's in the kitchen, and then he, like, shows up in the hallway.

简直吓人至极。

Just absolutely terrifying.

还有早期出现的那个。

The and the one early on.

在早期的时候。

On the early on.

是的。

Yeah.

你从某个角度看到他，我知道我当时既非常害怕，又觉得太棒了。

And you see him from the and, you know, I was both very afraid and also like, wow.

那一刻的电影制作真是精彩。

Bravo filmmaking in that moment.

是的。

Yeah.

这部电影让我很好地理解了构图、视觉呈现、节奏和剪辑在恐怖片中的关键作用。

So this was a cool movie for me to understand kind of like, you know, how composition and what you see and pacing and editing, like, are are essential to a horror film.

对。

Yeah.

这部电影刻意拍得非常简洁。

It's a really thin movie purposefully, very spare.

这部电影有点让人想起那些七十年代的高级剥削片，当时我们只有那么点预算。

It kinda does recall some of those, like, seventies elevated grindhouse movies where it's like, we only have so much money.

我们只有那么点时间。

We only have so much time.

那时候，莉芙·泰勒和斯科特·斯比德曼都已经相当有名了。

You know, Liv Tyler and Scott Speedman at this time were, like, pretty well known.

斯科特·斯比德曼来自《费利西蒂》。

Scott Speedman from Felicity.

莉芙·泰勒在那之前已经主演过很多电影了。

Liv Tyler, you know, had been the star of many movies up until this point.

但这些角色并不是特别深刻或有深度的。

Not exactly the most, like, deep and considered roles.

在这部电影里，莉芙·泰勒不是在低语，就是在大声尖叫。

Liv Tyler is either whispering or screaming at the top of her lungs in this movie.

我在家看的时候，不得不把音量调得特别高，因为音轨传输有问题，我显然是在流媒体上看的。

Had to turn up the volume so high at home, the sound transfer or whatever that I obviously, I was just streaming.

但是

But

我昨天重温的时候一直在想这个问题。

Do you think I I was thinking about this while revisiting it yesterday.

你觉得如果主角是些我们从未见过的无名演员，这部电影会更好还是更差？

Do you think the better the movie is better or worse if it's unknown actors that we've never seen before?

我，阿曼达，会觉得更差，因为我对斯科特·斯皮德曼和莉芙·泰勒有感情联系，也好奇他们现在怎么样了。

I, Amanda, watching would think it's worse because I am curious about I have relationships to Scott Speedman and and to Liv Tyler, and I'm curious about what's going on with them.

而且他们也非常漂亮。

And they are also like very beautiful.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。

Right.

非常值得一看。

Very watchable.

而且并不是说你找不到漂亮的无名人士，但你知道，我对名人的兴趣确实与这一点有关。

And it's not not that you couldn't find beautiful unknown people, But there is something about, you know, my interest in celebrity is a little about is related.

对吧？

Right?

因为我就想知道所有这些我并不了解的人的全部事情。

Because I like I just like wanna know everything about all these people that I have that I don't know.

是的。

Yeah.

但那些闪亮又出名的人，或者类似的人是谁呢？

But who are, you know, shiny and famous or or what have you.

我的意思是，我认为这就是名人和电影明星的魅力所在。

I mean, I think that that is what animates celebrity, what animates movie stars.

这些人身上总有什么东西是你想破解的。

There is something that you're that you're trying to crack about these people.

所以我觉得，使用斯科特·斯皮德曼和莉芙·泰勒这两个你多少有些了解的漂亮人物，正好契合了电影的主题。

So I think using Scott Speedman and Liv Tyler, two beautiful people who you do have some sort of relationship to, like, complements the themes of the movie.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得我既同意又不同意。

I I think I I agree and I disagree.

一方面，你确实会更投入情感，因为你心里会想：请不要杀死莉芙·泰勒。

Like on the one hand, that definitely you get more emotionally invested because you're like, please do not kill Liv Tyler.

我非常在意的是，那个九十年代Aerosmith音乐视频的女主角不能死在屏幕上。

This is very important to me that the the star of the Aerosmith videos from the nineties not die on screen.

但另一方面，我认为这部电影有一种突如其来的感觉，正是这一点让它显得像一部好莱坞作品。

On the other hand, I do think that the movie has such a kind of out of nowhere quality that it's the only thing that makes it feel like Hollywood product.

除了这一点之外的一切。

Like everything else about it.

它的制作非常精致，非常专业。

It's very, you know, it's pretty slick in terms of how it's made and it's very professional.

它可不是一部低成本电影。

It's not like a cheapo movie.

但正因为这种几乎完全不愿分享信息的抗拒态度，才构成了它独特的魔力。

But because of the kind of the resistance to sharing really very much information at all is totally its magic trick.

这正是它成为一部如此有效的电影的原因之一。

It's part of what makes it such an effective film.

你知道，有时候你会被拉出剧情，比如我会想：斯科特·斯比德曼简直是史上最帅的男人。

You know, you sometimes get taken out of it when you're I'm like, Scott Speedman is, like, the most handsome guy of all time.

像这种设定，说实话，有点难让人接受，我知道。

Like, this is, like, a little hard to accept that these insanely I know.

我肯定你也喜欢这部电影。

And I'm sure you enjoyed it.

是的。

Yeah.

还有莉芙·泰勒，她非常漂亮，后来换上了2007年那种格子衬衫，我也为此笑了很久。

And Liv Tyler, like, being very beautiful and then changing into her 2,007 plaid shirt, which I also laughed a lot at.

是的。

Yeah.

那很不错。

That was nice.

我本来想穿一件格子衬衫，但后来我想了想，我以前不喜欢，现在也不喜欢。

I thought about wearing a plaid shirt, and then I was like, I didn't like it then, and I don't like it now.

我自己也不是那种穿格子衫的人。

Not a plaid guy myself.

它又回来了。

It's back.

它又回来了。

It's back.

是的。

Yeah.

不好意思。

Excuse me.

它又回来了。

It's back.

安迪袖子回来了。

Andy Sleeves is back.

你都知道吗？

All you know?

好的。

Okay.

等等。

Etcetera.

我就知道你昨晚和约西·萨利克一起吃晚饭了。

That's how I know you were having dinner with Yossi Salik last night.

不。

No.

那只是互联网上的东西。

That's just the Internet.

再说一遍，我和每个人一样，都在用Instagram。

Once again, I, like everyone else, am on Instagram.

你们对独立垃圾风格这么着迷。

You guys are so excited about indie sleaze.

关于这部电影的另一点是，波蒂诺之前从未拍过电影，但他对拍摄风格充满自信，也坚定地按照自己想要的方式讲述故事。

The other thing about the movie, Portino never made a movie before and tremendously confident in the filmmaking style and also confident in telling the story the way that he wanted to.

据说，在他卖出去之后的那一年，有好几个人都被 offered 这部电影，但环球影业不想让他执导。

He apparently, multiple people were offered this movie in the year after he sold it and Universal didn't wanna let him direct it.

我认为音乐录影带导演马克·罗马尼克本来打算接手，但他想拍得规模大一点。

I think Mark Romanick, the music video director, was gonna come along and and take a shot at it, but he wanted to be like a slightly bigger movie.

他想把它拍成一部四千万美元的电影，但他们不希望这样。

He wanted to make it as a $40,000,000 movie, and they didn't want to.

但这样反而效果更好。

And it it works so much better.

当这部电影开始成为邪典经典时，有不少有趣的学术文章对此进行分析。

And there's a couple there's a lot of interesting academic writing about this movie when especially when it began to emerge as a cult hit.

有些文章提出，九一一事件之后，人们对恐怖片有两种不同的解读方式。

Some of the writing is sort of like there are two ways of looking at horror in the aftermath of nine eleven.

一种观点认为，血腥恐怖片时代的那种暴力感官刺激，正是我们对那些夺走无数生命的史诗级悲剧的反应——人们无法承受国家中如此多人所感受到的巨大痛苦、幻灭与悲伤。

One is that the kind of like viscera of the torture porn era is this manifestation of us watching these epic tragedies that have, you know, were cost so many lives that there's kind of no way to cope with the immense pain that so many people were feeling in the country in the sense of like disillusionment and and and sadness.

因此，唯一能应对这种痛苦的方式就是复仇和血腥。

And so the only way to kind of push through that is like revenge and like gore.

而另一个层面则是，这部电影讲述的是在错误的时间身处错误的地点。

And then there's another aspect of it that is sort of like, this is a movie about being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

对吧？

Right?

很多人正是这么认为的。

That's what that's what a lot of the Yeah.

这种观点所批评的核心，是世界上暴力事件的随机性。

The the sort of criticism hones in on is the randomness of violence in the world.

有时候，你可能只是被一个醉驾司机撞上，生命就此终结。

And that sometimes you can just get hit by a car driven by a drunk driver and that's the end of your life.

而这种类型的悲剧，世界上根本无法控制。

And like there's no way to control that kind of tragedy in the world.

这部电影某种程度上就是在讲这个。

And this movie is kind of about that.

它的杀手动机非常引人入胜，因为那是一种虚无。

Its killer's motivations are fascinating because they are like a nothingness.

他们确实是。

They are Yeah.

这甚至算不上虚无主义。

It's not even a nihilism.

他们有自己的使命，但这个使命纯粹源于暴力，或许还带着某种消遣。

It's like they have their own mission, but that mission is born of just violence and just the kind of amusement maybe.

但他们并不是那种开怀大笑的杀手。

But there's not a lot of they're not laughing gleeful killers.

他们并不……但他们似乎确实从这场整夜施加于这对夫妇的心理实验中获得了某种满足。

They're not they but they do seem to be getting something out of this psychological experiment that they're inflicting upon this couple throughout this night.

是的。

Yeah.

不过他们确实一整晚都戴着面具。

Though they really they wear the masks throughout.

他们从未露出真面目。

They don't get the reveal.

我在观看时，确实有一个高潮场景，终于给出了某种解释。

And I did, you know, watching, there is a climactic scene where the closest an explanation of sorts is finally given.

而且那时已经是白天了。

And it's daylight also.

我看着的时候心想，哦，他们是在摘下面具的地方拍的。

And as I was watching, I said, was like, oh, they filmed it where they take the masks off.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后他们意识到，在剪辑时，这样更有力量——你从没见过他们的脸。我看完后又去网上查了。

And then they realized in edits that it's more powerful and Well, you never see their I watched it and then I I read online.

我的意思是，这算是半吊子的网络搜索，但确实如此：在剪辑时，他们发现这样处理更有道理。

I mean, you know, this is, a half baked Internet research, but that that is the case where in edit, they discovered that it makes more sense.

那种剪辑方式有点特别，人们总觉得他们本该出现在画面里，但其实并没有。

There was just something about the cutting and the way that that people are like, they're not in the frame that they, you know, that they would be.

我觉得这绝对是正确的决定。

And I think that's totally right the right decision.

是的。

Mhmm.

而且这是一种对影片目标的深刻理解，剪辑也是电影创作的一部分。

And like a cool understanding of what your film is achieving and editing is filmmaking too.

这很棒。

So that's great.

但你故意只展现角色面具里的部分，或者他们的背影，以及那些陌生人。

But you so you purposely don't get anything of the characters except of what's in their masks or or them from behind and the the strangers that is.

我觉得有一个场景特别吓人，那个戴面具的男人坐在桌边。

And there is, you know, one incredibly scary thing scene I think where the the man in the mask, like, sits at the table.

我想他是在那一刻沉思。

And I guess he's reflecting for a moment.

但大部分时候，他们只是四处奔跑或在追捕。

But for the most part, otherwise, they're just like running around or on the hunt.

他们根本不是真正的人。

They're not really people.

他们就像是棋子。

They're just sort of chess pieces.

他们就是面具。

They are they are masks.

是的。

Yeah.

你无法理解他们的行为，这正是关键所在，也是他们令人恐惧的原因。

And your inability to understand what they're doing is the point and what's scary about them.

对。

Yeah.

他们也是这个理念非常有趣的化身，因为正如我们过去十年里反复讨论过的，很多恐怖片都会费尽心思去心理化角色的动机。

It's it they're they're really interesting avatars for this idea too because the a lot of horror movies that as we've talked about ad nauseam in the last ten years, go to great lengths to psychologize intent Mhmm.

并且为创伤和他们为何会做出这些可怕行为找理由，这虽然有一定道理，但我觉得现在这种风格已经太过泛滥了。

And rationalize trauma and why they lead to these terrible acts, which is kind of valid, but is really overdone, I think, as a style choice now.

这绝对会毁了这部电影。

And would absolutely ruin this movie.

哦，我正想说，伯蒂诺说曼森家族屠杀案是这部电影的重要灵感来源。

Oh, that's what was gonna say is like so the movie Bertino says that the the Manson family tape murders are were a big inspiration for this.

但我觉得这个想法非常令人不满意，也许他在剪辑过程中也意识到了这一点，

But I find that very unsatisfying as an idea, and I think maybe he realized in in that in the edit perhaps that,

是的。

like Yeah.

尽可能去除动机，甚至去除人性，会更有价值。

To to remove as much motivation and even humanity as possible would be valuable.

因为我们现在对曼森家族屠杀案了解很多。

Because we know a lot about the Manson Family murders now.

尽管他们疯狂、充满阴谋，受精神失常、吸毒以及该邪教内部种种因素驱动，但他们的行为是有明确意图的。

And while they were maniacal and conspiracy laden and and and driven by a, you know, mental imbalance and drug use and all of these things that were happening inside of that cult, there was like intent.

你知道，我们是故意去那栋房子的，因为那些人住在那里。

You know, there was it was like we're going to this house on purpose because these people live there.

而这里却只是像在问：谁在家？

Whereas this is just like, who's home?

而且我们还在墙上写东西，还带有一些神话色彩。

And also we're like writing things on the walls and there is some sort of mythology.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此。

It is.

我的意思是，我们能聊聊结局吗？

I I mean, I do think can we like, can we talk about the ending?

我们能聊聊吗？

Can we talk about it?

所以那个解释，或者说是最后的时刻，无论给出什么理由，都是莉芙·泰勒说：你们为什么要这样对我们？

So the the explanation or like the final moment, whatever reason is given is, you know, Liv Tyler says, like, why are you doing this to us?

那个女人，我认为是模特杰玛·沃德。

And the woman who I believe that's Gemma Ward, the model.

两个女人中的一个是杰玛·沃德，我觉得就是她。

One of the two women is Gemma Ward, and I think it's her.

她还戴着面具。

She's still in a mask.

她说。

And she says

是的。

Yes.

娃娃脸。

Doll face.

对。

Yes.

因为你在家，这绝对是电影能给出的最合理的解释，因为根本不需要一个起源故事。

Because you were home, which is definitely like the best possible explanation that the movie can give because there is no because you don't want an origin story.

你并不想要一个真正的理由。

You don't want a real reason.

我认为，没有答案可能反而更好。

I think no answer would have been better personally still.

因为我仍然觉得，那就是那个转折点，我的意思是，其实是有答案的。

Because I still think that is the one moment where it tips and it is I mean, there is an answer.

答案就是纯粹的随机性。

The answer is just like randomness.

但即使给出一个答案，也某种程度上破坏了那种未知感，而这种未知才是电影最可怕的部分。

But that but even even having an answer kinda steps on the tote of the the not knowingness, which is the most terrifying part of the movie.

如果整个故事完全模棱两可，如果你根本得不到答案，那你就会想：‘这到底算什么？’

And if it had been completely ambiguous, if you don't get an answer, then you're just like, what the fuck?

没错。

Which Right.

如果他们在面对这个问题时什么都没说，那可能会更引人入胜。

If they if they if they had said nothing in the face of that question, that might have been fascinating.

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，我觉得这部电影本身似乎是对前几年许多恐怖片策略的一种拒绝，那些恐怖片基本上都在展示他人的越界行为，尤其是砍杀片。

I mean, I think the movie itself, it seems to be this kind of rejection of a lot of horror movie strategy in the previous years where, like, a lot of horror movies are basically showing the transgress especially slashers.

它们展示的是他人的越界行为。

They're showing the transgressions of other people.

对。

Right.

比如，你发生了性关系，或者你刻薄、欺负别人，如果你看看《十三号星期五》或《猛鬼街》，那些青少年做了他们不该做的事，然后就被惩罚了。

Like, you had sex or you were mean you were a bully or you were you know, if you look at Friday the thirteenth, the Nightmare on Elm Street, the way teenagers do things they're not supposed to do, and then they get punished for it.

但这部电影不是这样。

And this is not that.

我想你可以说，这部电影试图探讨这种关系的破碎本质，而这种极端的后果，源于两个无法维系关系的人。

And I guess you could say maybe like there's this movie is trying to explore something about the fractured nature of this relationship, and then this is a kind of outsized aftermath of two people who are not able to make it work.

这仅仅是对一段破裂关系的心理探索。

And, you know, it's just a psychological exploration of a broken relationship.

我认为这是一种看待这部电影的方式，但它仍然运用了核心恐怖片的套路来让你 emotionally 恐惧，确保那个人是安全的还是不安全的。

I think that's one way you can kind of see the movie, but it's still using like core horror examine core horror tropes to get you like emotionally scared, you know, making sure that the person is staying safe or not safe.

所以我不确定。

So I don't know.

这是一部时长仅八十一分钟的电影，却相当丰富，是的。

It's like it's a pretty rich movie for an eighty one minute Yeah.

一部刀片恐怖片，结局有些令人不满，但却以一种非常阴郁的方式呈现，这反而让我感到振奋。

Slasher that ends somewhat unsatisfyingly, but very bleakly in a way that is kind of inspiring to me.

你知道，环球影业会推出一部超短、不那么血腥的恐怖片。

You know, the Universal Studios would put out a movie, a super short, not grizzly horror movie.

嗯。

Mhmm.

不是那样的。

It's not that.

我的意思是，我看过更糟的。

I mean, I've seen worse.

是的

Yeah.

我想最终的击杀场景确实很真实，我看了未分级版。

I guess it is the final kill is very actually, I watched the unrated version.

我不记得了。

I don't remember.

也许未分级版比你看到的更激烈。

Maybe it is more intense than what you saw.

未分级版，尤其是最后的死亡场景。

The unrated version, particularly the final deaths.

好的。

Okay.

你看到了更多刀具的镜头。

You see more in knives.

在我看的版本或者公映版中，其实并没有看到太多画面。

You don't you don't actually see a lot in the in the version that I saw or the version that was released.

我的意思是，这确实有点影响

I mean, that kinda does

改变了一些事情，但总的来说，最后也就一个小时左右。

change things a At the end, for the most part, it's just an hour.

比如，格伦·哈灵顿的脸被打得稀烂，但也就那样吧。

Like, you know, Glenn Harrington gets his face shot up, but, like, whatever.

那根本就不是重点。

That's you don't even Yeah.

那只是电影里的桥段。

That's movie stuff.

吓人。

Scary.

你知道的吗？

You know?

是的。

Yep.