2025年十大被忽视与低估的电影佳作。另附：《这东西开着吗？》、《艾拉·麦凯》，以及我们为何无法拥有美好事物。

乔·布鲁斯，可能是我心目中本世纪最喜爱的电视剧角色。

Joe Blues, maybe my favorite TV character of the century.

很少有演员能像他那样让我笑得这么厉害。

Very few actors make can make me laugh as hard as he does.

去看看他在《科南秀》上表演的关于杰森·贝特曼的小品。

Watch him on Conan doing bits about Jason Bateman.

世界上再没有什么比这更搞笑的了。

Nothing funnier in the world.

我真的很喜欢威尔·阿奈特。

I really like Will Arnett.

我觉得他在这部电影中流露出一种非常真诚的情感。

I feel something very sincere coming from him in this movie.

能看得出他正在努力处理一些个人问题。

Can tell he's trying to get through some stuff.

不过有个奇怪的地方：这是一部关于单口喜剧的电影，而理所当然地，主角是个毫无经验的新人。

There's a weird thing, though, where it's a movie about stand up comedy, and understandably, it's an amateur who isn't has no experience.

对。

Right.

但问题就在于你做的那个事。

But it's the that thing you do problem.

这就是关键。

And that's the thing.

这些笑话并不好笑。

The jokes are not funny.

嗯嗯。

Mm-mm.

他在这一部分并不那么好笑。

He's not that funny in this part.

从戏剧角度来看，他不够好笑或不够老练是有道理的。

It does make sense dramatically for him to be not that funny or that seasoned.

是啊。

Yeah.

但其他一些喜剧演员，其中一些是专业且非常成功的喜剧人，虽然有点好笑，但并没有多少笑声。

But the other comedians, some of whom are are professional and very successful comedians, are, like, kind of funny, but there's not a lot of laughs.

我们四十年前就看过这种电影了。

We saw this in a movie forty years ago.

你知道，汤姆·汉克斯和莎莉·菲尔德主演的《笑料》是一部关于单口喜剧世界的剧情喜剧片，但并不怎么好笑。

You know, Tom Hanks and Sally Field made Punchline, another dramedy about the world of stand up comedy that isn't that funny.

日落大道的六十号工作室也遇到了完全相同的问题。

Studio sixty on the Sunset Strip had the same exact problem

嗯。

Mhmm.

它在于

Where it

这是一部有点像《周六夜现场》的剧集，但没有《周六夜现场》那么好笑。

was like, this is a show that's kind of about SNL, but it's not as funny as SNL.

是啊。

Yeah.

你相信吗？

Do you buy it?

这可是危险的事，老兄。

This is dangerous stuff, man.

如果这些东西不奏效，可能会毁掉一部电影。

This can sink a movie when that stuff doesn't work.

而且，你知道，我们正在和克里斯·莱恩交谈，他看了这部片子，喜欢里面的喜剧部分。

And, you know, we're talking to we're talking to Chris Ryan, and he saw this, and he liked the comedy stuff.

他喜欢那些单口喜剧的部分。

He liked the stand up stuff

嗯。

Mhmm.

故事发生在纽约的喜剧俱乐部。

Which takes place at the comedy seller in New York.

我就是看不进去。

I I couldn't get into it.

我只是无法投入其中。

I just couldn't get invested in it.

我也不知道怎么回事，我有点困惑。

I didn't I was I'm I'm kinda baffled

整个电影。

by the whole movie.

我坐在那里想，如果我是个去Comedy Cellar参加开放麦夜的人，结果看到的是这个，我肯定会要求退钱。

I sat there thinking if I were a person even going to open mic night at the Comedy Cellar and this is what showed up, I I would ask for my money back.

我只是喜欢Comedy Cellar。

I've just like the the comedy cellar.

bucks。

Bucks.

你

You

你不会？什么？

wouldn't What?

15美元，我觉得就是这个价格。

15 was I think the rate.

我在纽约的时候看到的是5美元。

You see $5 when I was in New York.

对。

Yeah.

但即便如此，那也是一个传奇的、神圣的地方。

But still, that's a legendary that's like a hallowed place.

我心想，这家伙居然就能随便走上台去。

And I'm like, this guy just gets to wander

对他来说似乎太容易了。

seems so easy for him

就这么走上台去。

to just get up there.

这到底是怎么发生的？

Like, how did that happen?

难道不是吗

Wasn't it

电影里还有一个情节，就是看起来每个女性都想要和威尔·阿奈特发生关系。

so There is also a thing in the movie where it's just like, it sure seems like every woman wants to fuck Will Arnett in this movie.

然后我就想，这到底是怎么回事？

Then I'm like, what's going on here?

我只是

I'm just

这几乎没有被审视过。

this is fairly unexamined.

有很多镜头，我的意思是，他那副中年大叔身材在他的喜剧中是个 recurring 的桥段，但电影里展现他所谓的二头肌的镜头，实在多到我根本不需要看这么多。

There are, like, a lot of shots of I mean, his dad bod is, a recurring bit in his comedy, but there are just, like, more shots of his so so called biceps than I personally needed to see.

我还没走到我这年龄该有的境界。

I'm not there on my aging journey.

没有。

No.

我以为他是一个严肃的演员在演绎情感。

I I thought that it's like a this serious actor playing the emotions.

他挺不错的。

He He's pretty good.

他挺不错的。

He's pretty good.

我同意。

I agree.

有一个时刻

There's there's one moment

我认为这部电影最好的部分就是他饰演这个经历困境的男人的表演。

I argue that's the best part of the movie is his performance as this guy going through this thing.

有一个和孩子有关的场景，很糟糕，同样地，从逻辑上讲，我不确定他们为什么不在场，但他拿着他们的袜子。

There's one moment with the kid sucks, which again, like logistically, I wasn't sure why they weren't there, but he had their socks.

但是

But

是的。

Yes.

我当时在那一刻真的有某种感受。

I I, like, I felt something in that moment.

那是种很棒的、令人悲伤的电影表达。

That was, you know, that was good, sad filmmaking.

其他部分都让人困惑。

Everything else was confusing.

我们来谈谈布拉德利·库珀的表演吧。

Let's talk about Bradley Cooper's performance.

嗯，我很喜欢。

Well, that I enjoyed.

我觉得布拉德利·库珀是个非常出色的自我导演。

I think Bradley Cooper's an amazing director of himself.

我同意。

I agree with that.

他在电影中做了一件很特别的事，这部电影的剧情张力较低，叙事结构也有些混乱。

He has done a curious thing in the movie, which is a movie with like low stakes and a kind of confused narrative structure.

他每隔三十二分钟就会出现一次，连续五分钟成为屏幕上最有趣的人，然后又消失不见。

And he shows up every thirty two minutes to be the funniest person on screen for five minutes and then disappear again.

而且他还非常英俊。

And also so handsome.

是的。

Yes.

在某个阶段，他留着长发、胡子和小胡子。

He's got long hair and a beard and a mustache at a certain point.

他是一位与威尔·阿奈特关系很好的演员。

And he's he's an actor who is close friends with Will Arnett.

威尔·阿奈特的角色做了什么？

What does Will Arnett's character do?

我们不知道。

We don't know.

这是另一件事。

That's another thing.

在金融领域，想想是

In finance, think is

这个想法。

the idea.

但你从未真正见过他穿西装。

But you never really you see him in a suit.

对。

Right.

他一直谈论着一份工作，以及他为这所房子支付的抵押贷款，因为他们住在，你知道的，大都会北方线附近的某个地方。

And he keeps talking about some job and the mortgage that he's paying for this house because they live in, you know, somewhere on Metro North.

他在城里租了一套公寓。

He gets an apartment at the city.

大概是在康涅狄格州。

Presumably in Connecticut.

你知道，钱从来没人真正讨论过，但一切都很好。

You know, money is never really discussed, but everything's fine.

但他们都是老朋友，库珀和阿内特的角色，库珀的角色娶了安德鲁·戴，他们是一群多年来一直聚在一起、共度时光的人，现在正处在人生的这个阶段。

But they're old friends, Cooper and Arnett's characters, and and Cooper's character is married to Andrew Day, and they're they're part of this crew of people who've been hanging out and spending time together for years, and they're at that stage of their lives.

对。

Right.

你知道，我们正逐渐进入人生的这个阶段，比如有些婚姻可能出了问题，或者人们开始思考：当孩子长大后会发生什么？我在人生中处于什么位置？我快乐吗？

You know, we're getting to that stage of our lives where like, you know, maybe some marriages aren't working out or, you know, people are confronting like what happens when my kids get older and where am I in my life and am I happy?

我觉得这些内容都很丰富。

All that stuff I think is is rich.

而且，你知道，这部电影，《N。

And, you know, this movie, N.

L。

L.

麦凯的作品，是我们想在电影中看到的绝佳例子。

McKay, are fascinating examples of things that we want at the movies Mhmm.

这些电影代表了一种如今已不再被制作的类型，除非你有像布拉德利·库珀或吉姆·布鲁克斯这样极具影响力的人物来推动这样的电影问世。

That represent a a kind of movie that no longer really gets made unless you have a really powerful force like a Bradley Cooper or a Jim Brooks to get a movie like this made.

但仅仅因为这类电影存在，并不意味着它就一定是好电影。

But just because the movie like this exists doesn't automatically make it good.

这是一种‘小心你所愿望’的困境，因为如果剧本不对，或者我觉得，如果你在2023年或2026年拍这部电影，可能会得到完全不同的风味。

It is a careful what you wish for conundrum because with the wrong script or just like the wrong I feel like if you made this movie in 2023 or in 2026, maybe you'd get, like, a slightly different stew.

你会得到一个更好的结果。

You'd get a a better outcome.

比如，你只是稍微改变了一个选择，或者让剧本多酝酿一段时间，从而避开那些行不通的元素。

Like, you just make one choice a little bit differently or you wait for the script to simmer a little longer so you pivot away from something that wasn't working.

这感觉就像蛋糕还没烤好就从烤箱里拿出来了。

Like, it just feels like it wasn't the cake wasn't ready to come out of the oven

不。

No.

这就是我对这部电影的感觉。

Is how this movie feels to me.

是的。

Yeah.

这只不过是一部关于父亲寻找自我的电影。

It's it's just a movie about a dad finding himself.

但它披着一部离婚电影和另一部关于艺术家的电影的外衣，讲述了一个从事艺术行业的人如何调和自己的个人生活与职业生活——这正是布拉德利·库珀另外两部电影的主题。

And it's but dressed up in the clothing of a divorce movie and, you know, a another like a performer movie and how is, like, a man who is in the arts gonna reconcile his personal life and his professional life, which has been the theme of Bradley Cooper's other two movies as well.

没错。

It's true.

但说实话，我不知道。

But it's really just like, I don't know.

这个男人能幸福吗？

Is can can this man be happy?

为什么佩顿·曼宁会出现在这部电影里？

Why is Peyton Manning in the film?

我笑得很开心。

I laughed a lot.

因为他们从远处介绍了他，你就会想，等等。

Because they introduced him from a distance, and you're like, wait a second.

那是佩顿·曼宁吗？

Is that Peyton Manning?

那是佩顿·曼宁吗？

Is that Peyton Manning?

然后劳拉·邓恩和佩顿·曼宁约会，差点就要和佩顿·曼宁发生关系了。

And then Laura Dern is on a date with Peyton Manning and almost maybe gonna sleep with Peyton Manning.

这真的很好笑。

That's that's really funny.

那就是

That is the

有趣。

fun.

是否

Does

他演的是自己吗？

he play himself?

不是。

No.

他演的是莱尔德。

He plays Laird.

一个

A

前排球同事。

former volleyball colleague.

现在我们有戏了。

Now we are cooking.

是啊。

Yeah.

是啊。

Yeah.

他可能负责国家队。

He's maybe in charge of the national team.

还有那个他们遇到的事件——劳拉·邓恩的角色在和莱尔德共进晚餐后去了一家喜剧俱乐部，而这场晚餐实际上正在变成一场真正的约会，因为我们得知他们都是离异人士。

And the incident that they, like, find themselves in where Laura Dern's character goes to a comedy club with Laird after their dinner, which is turning into a date in real time because we learned that they're both divorced.

然后他们偶然看到威尔·阿奈特的角色在表演喜剧，而他的喜剧内容很大程度上围绕着他的婚姻和他的妻子。

And then they stumble upon seeing Will Arnett's character performing comedy, and that comedy is very much about his marriage and about his wife.

在那场表演中，有些话对她造成了伤害。

And some things are uttered that are hurtful to her in that exchange.

但之后莱尔德消失了，所有发生的事情都……

But everything that happens after that where Laird disappears

嗯。

Mhmm.

劳拉·邓恩的角色质问威尔·阿奈特的角色，这导致他们之间产生了一种 tentative 的重聚，以及一种化学般的吸引力。

Laura Dern's character confronts Will Arnett's character, and then that leads to, like, a kind of tentative reunion between them and, like, heat, like a chemistry.

我完全不信。

I didn't buy at all.

我是说，这根本就是完全的幻想。

Like, not I was like, this is complete fantasy.

我真的不明白他们想通过这个表达什么。

Like, I have no idea what they're trying to communicate with this.

所以，意思是你要当着她的面公开羞辱她，然后她就会想再和你上床？

So it's like, is the idea that you should publicly humiliate your wife in front of her so then she'll wanna sleep with you again?

这个情节到底想告诉我们什么？电影想表达什么？

What is the move what is the movie trying to tell us about that?

我完全不明白。

I have no idea.

至于这些角色最后的结局是，她重新找回了对排球的热爱，找到了人生目标，开始当教练。

And the way the way that where those characters end up is that she rediscovers her love of volleyball and she like finds a purpose and she's coaching.

嗯。

Yeah.

好吧。

Okay.

嗯。

Yeah.

因为奥运会两年后就要在这里举办了。

That's because the Olympics are gonna be here in two years.

没错。

That's right.

好的。

Okay.

然后他重新发现了自我和幸福，因为他站在喜剧地窖的舞台上，拿自己的家人开玩笑来博取笑声。

And then he has like rediscovered himself and his happiness because he stands up on stage in the comedy cellar and makes fun of his family for for laughs.

然后这意味着他们可以在一起幸福生活，背景音乐是他们的孩子演奏的《Under Pressure》。

And then that means that they can be happy together to the strains of under pressure as performed by their children.

好的。

Okay.

听好了。

Listen.

听好了。

Listen.

所以听好了。

So Listen.

不。

No.

这很重要，因为你知道，这可不是《后》播客。

This is this is important because, you know, this is not this is not an After podcast.

对吧？

Right?

我们并不喜欢电影《后日》。

We don't love the movie After Sun.

我们只是做了2022年的盘点，人们揪着头发，街上哭天喊地。

We just did the 2022 draft, people pulling their hair out, crying in the street.

你们为啥没提《后日》？

Why did you guys not talk about After Sun?

这只是部艾曼达和我不喜欢的电影。

It's just not a movie that Amanda and I love.

对。

Right.

显然，克里斯也不喜欢它。

Clearly, Chris doesn't love it either.

他根本没提过。

He didn't bring it up.

但《日落之后》这部电影已经用过《压力之下》的无伴奏合唱版本。

But After Sun used the acapella of Under Pressure already in the movie.

就像那部电影里最有力的部分，就是那首音乐在俱乐部场景和电影结尾的运用。

It's like it is the most, like, powerful thing in that movie is the use of that music in those club scenes and then at the conclusion of the movie.

而这部影片三年后却做了完全相同的事。

And this movie does the exact same thing three years later.

你不能重复使用那个音乐桥段。

You can't use that that that musical cue.

《日落之后》三年后，布拉德利·库珀，你在干什么？

Three years after After Sun, what are you doing, Bradley Cooper?

这简直太明显了，孩子们在整整九十分钟里练习着，而整部电影才两小时，你只能想，好吧。

It's just it's also the just most creaking obvious the kids are practicing it for ninety minutes of the two hour movie, and you're just like, okay.

所以我知道你打算怎么收尾了。

So I know exactly how you're gonna end this.

但有一刻，劳拉·邓恩的角色说，这场表演不是为了几个月后。

But at one point, Laura Dern's character says, that performance isn't for isn't for, like, for so many months from now.

我心想，哦，太棒了。

And I'm like, oh, great.

好吧。

Okay.

所以你就是要设置这么个蠢得要命的……我不知道。

So you're just gonna set up the dumb I don't know.

我想，至少这个家庭最后还不错，所以也不算失败的行为。

I guess the family turns out okay, so it's not loser behavior.

你知道的。

You know?

你得做你该做的事，但也许我不需要参与其中。

You gotta do what you gotta do, but maybe I don't need to be a part of it.

这段对话感觉就像塞缪尔·杰克逊在《低俗小说》里枪击罗伯特·德尼罗，我心里想：老兄，你咋变成这样了？

This this conversation feels like Sam Jackson shooting Robert De Niro and Jackie Brown, where I'm like, what happened to you, man?

你以前身材可真棒。

Your ass used to be beautiful.

这确实是库普的一次重大失误。

Like, this is a real misstep for for Coop.

我需要他重新振作起来。

I I need him to bounce back.

我需要他下一部电影拍一部疯狂的三小时史诗巨制。

I need, like, a crazy three hour massive period piece for the next film.

我需要他重新爆发，全力以赴投入下一部作品，因为这部片子根本不是他该有的水准。

I need something I need him to reach back and to just go beast mode on whatever it is he's getting into soon because this wasn't it.

不。

No.

麦凯。

McKay.

是的。

Yeah.

《艾拉·麦凯》由詹姆斯·L·布鲁克斯编剧并执导。

Ella McKay is written and directed by James L.

他是电视和电影界的传奇人物。

Brooks, a television and movie legend.

这是他第七部导演作品。

This is his seventh film as director.

这是他自《你懂的》以来时隔十五年执导的首部电影，而《你懂的》当时是一场惨败。

It's his first film in fifteen years since how do you know, which was a debacle.

主演包括艾玛·麦基、杰米·李·柯蒂斯、杰克·劳登、库梅尔·南贾尼、阿约·阿德布里、斯派克·费恩、朱莉·卡夫纳、丽贝卡·豪尔、阿尔伯特·布鲁克斯和伍迪·哈里森。

It stars Emma Mackie, Jamie Lee Curtis, Jack Loudon, Kumail Nanjiani, Ayo Adebri, Spike Fern, Julie Kavner, Rebecca Hall, Albert Brooks, and Woody Harrelson.

我从网上摘录的剧情简介如下。

The logline that I pulled from the Internet is as follows.

34岁的艾拉·麦凯成为了她出生并成长的州的州长。

At 34 years old, Ella McKay becomes the governor of the state she was born and raised in.

然而，与丈夫、父亲和兄弟处理好关系，可能是她迄今为止最大的挑战。

However, navigating relationships with her husband, father, and brother may just be her biggest challenge yet.

是的。

Yeah.

所以

So

我希望这次能让我们来个转折。

this I would love for this to be a zag for us.

对吧？

Right?

你知道，你和我都对吉姆·布鲁克斯的作品很投入。

You know, like you and I are both invested in the work of Jim Brooks.

嗯。

Yep.

这部电影中的许多演员

In many of the actors in this film

百分之百。

100%.

关于晚年大胆突破的想法，没错。

In the idea of, you know, late career, big swings Yeah.

杰作。

Masterpieces.

就像这位八旬厨师。

Like this octogenarian cook.

嗯。

Yeah.

我们喜欢，我们真的喜欢关于情感的原创电影。

We like, we really and original movies about feelings.

是的。

Yeah.

而且以女性为中心。

And Centered on women.

强大的女性。

Strong women.

所以我希望我们能够重新夺回这一点。

And so I would love for us to be able to reclaim this.

绝对不行。

Absolutely cannot.

简直就是一场灾难。

Like, just absolute disaster.

这确实是一场灾难。

It really is a disaster.

我说出这话很难过。

It pains me to say that.

这真的非常严峻。

It's really it's really very dire.

是的。

Yes.

看电影的时候我感到有点羞愧。

I was a a bit mortified watching the movie.

当然。

Sure.

这部电影中有一些部分让我觉得有吸引力，或者至少值得讨论。

And there are components of the movie that I found appealing or at least worthy of discussion.

好的。

Okay.

别

Don't

完全否定它。

wanna dismiss it entirely.

这部电影讲述了一位年轻女性，她非常有条理且全心投入于自己对世界的愿景，通过事业来推动她所认为的正确生活方式和构建更美好社会的方式。

Movie is about a young woman who is very type a and very dedicated to her vision of the world and uses her career to further what she believes to be the right way to live and the right way to create a better society.

对。

Right.

她最终成为了自己出生和成长的州的副州长，我认为我们可以合理地假设这是罗德岛、新罕布什尔、缅因州之类的——某种新英格兰风格的地方。

She eventually becomes the lieutenant governor in the state she was born and raised in, which I think we can safely assume is Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine, some some it feels New England y.

电影中从未明确指出，这很

It's never named, which is

电影中从未明确指出，这显然是有意为之。

It's never named purposefully, one presumes.

是的。

Yeah.

但这一点变得非常明显。

But becomes quite obvious.

我忍不住笑了一下，因为你提到她出生和成长的州——当她被提拔为州长时，艾拉打电话给她的姑姑，由杰米·李·柯蒂斯饰演，后者说了一句如今堪称经典的话：‘艾拉，你即将成为你出生和成长的州的州长。'

And the I was chuckling at the state you were born and raised in because when she's promoted to governor, Ella calls her aunt played by Jamie Lee Curtis, who says the now mortal line, Ella, you are going to become the governor of the state you were born and raised in.

就这一句话，道出了这部电影所有的问题。

And in a sentence right there, is is is everything that's wrong with this movie.

没错。

It is.

问题就在于，无关紧要的细节过于具体，而真正重要的地方却完全缺乏细节。

Which is that there's like a tremendous amount of specificity in all the wrong places and a total lack of specificity in the important places.

是的。

Yes.

而且选角严重不当。

And also rampant miscasting.

而且

And

确实如此。

Very true.

我很喜欢艾玛·麦基。

I I'm a I'm a fan of Emma Mackey.

我觉得她在这部电影中非常努力地去契合这个时刻，她一个人肩负着黛博拉·温格、霍莉·亨特和海伦·亨特这些角色的影子。

I think she's trying really hard in this movie to to meet the moment, and she's really carrying on her back the ghosts of Deborah Winger and Holly Hunter and Helen Hunt.

玛丽·摩尔。

Mary Moore.

玛丽·泰勒·摩尔，还有演罗达的那位女演员是谁？

Mary Tyler Moore and and who's the actress who played Rhoda?

我想不起她的名字了。

Her name escapes me.

那些詹姆斯·L·布鲁克斯最擅长塑造的、极其坚强、复杂、有时又很刻薄的女性角色。

The the the incredibly strong, complicated, at times difficult women that James L Brooks is best known for.

你知道的，《亲情纽带》里的奥罗拉，谢里琳·麦克莱恩饰演的角色。

You know, Aurora from Terms of Endearment, Cherilyn McClain's character.

这些 fiercely 理想主义、但有时又相当苦涩的人物，

These ferociously idealistic, but also sometimes quite sour figures that

外表和职业上、个人生活中都极其能干，她们从不依赖男人。

Deeply capable outwardly and professionally and personally, like, they're never dependent on a man Mhmm.

这太了不起了，尤其是在七八十年代，相当具有开创性。

Which is like amazing and especially in the seventies and eighties, pretty groundbreaking.

所以，你知道，男人来来去去，她们并不是那种无性的人，而是在努力为自己寻找答案。

And so, you know, men coming in and out of their life, they're not like, you know, sexless people, but they're trying to figure things out for themselves.

她们已经弄清楚了自己想向世界展现什么。

And they've figured out what they want to project out into the world.

她们正试图在内心以及与周围人之间达成和解。

And they're trying to reconcile it within themselves and with the people around them.

是的。

Yeah.

这在七八十年代是一种比现在更进步的理念。

Which was, you know, a more progressive idea in the seventies and eighties than it is now.

此外，电影《艾拉·麦凯》也很有意思，因为它是一部关于政治的电影。

Well, it's also interesting in the movie Ella McKay because it's a movie about politics.

对吧？

Right?

这是一部关于政治的电影，带有奥巴马时代那种乐观精神，直面那些通常定义政客生涯的官僚主义与怨恨。

It's a movie about politics with a kind of Obama era optimism that confronts like the bureaucracy and bitterness that tends to define career politicians.

没错。

Yeah.

阿尔伯特·布鲁克斯饰演一位长期担任州长的政客，这位州长来自一个 presumably 在新英格兰的小州，后来被提升至白宫内阁职位。

Albert Brooks plays this longtime governor Governor above governor, but governor Bill of a small state presumably in New England who has been elevated to a cabinet position in the White House.

嗯。

Mhmm.

于是他即将离任，而艾拉将接替他的位置，她显然是过去十年中他许多政策的幕后策划者。

And so he's leaving, and Ella will be filling his in his And she's clearly like the architect of a lot of his policy over the previous decade.

她是个真正的实干家，很可能刚毕业就加入了这个竞选团队，一路晋升，成为他的幕僚长，做了所有这些工作。

She's a real like go getter type who probably came right out of college and joined up with this campaign and rose through the ranks and was his chief of staff and did all this work.

因此，她相信自己不必像政客那样玩弄权术，而是可以直接用强硬手段推动世界变革。

And so she believes that rather than maneuver and manipulate the way that a politician does, she can kind of blunt force her way to change in the world.

但她发现，就像在个人生活中无法总是如此一样，她在政治上也无法做到这一点。

And she finds out that just like she can't always do that with her personal life, she can't do it

对。

Right.

在现实世界中。

In the real world.

所以当我提到我喜欢这部电影的某些方面，作为一个想法，这是一个不错的电影创意。

So when I say that there's stuff about it that I like, as an idea, that's a good idea for a movie.

我有点钦佩布鲁克斯想拍这样一部电影，它就像一场又一场的战斗，我们搞砸了，现在我是比尔州长。

And I I kind of admire that Brooks wants to make a movie about this where it's like it's not unlike a one battle after another where it's like we fucked up, and now I'm governor Bill.

而艾伦·麦凯想跟着来，试图修复问题，改善世界。

And like Ellen McKay wants to come along and kind of fix things and improve the world.

你知道，她的父亲是个真正的混蛋，她有权利不原谅他。

And, you know, her father was a was a real asshole, and she's she's like she's entitled to not forgive him.

对。

Right.

你知道吗？

You know?

在她生命中，唯一能真正信任的人都是女性，这些坚强的年长女性。

And that the only people in her life who she can really trust are women and these strong older women.

所以，我认为所有这些想法都是合理的。

So, like, all of those ideas, I think, are sound.

是的。

Yeah.

这部电影感觉像是人们在开拍前吸了笑气。

The movie, it feels like people took laughing gas before they started making it.

简直太怪异了。

Like, it is bizarre.

哦，没错。

Oh, yeah.

影片的基调、笑点设计、表演风格、剪辑，处处都扭曲得不成样子。

The tone, the joke writing, the performance style, the editing, it's so misshapen all over the place.

真的特别滑稽。

It's really goofy.

这些基本理念也正是支撑玛丽·泰勒·摩尔节目以及广播新闻的核心理念。

And so those basic ideas are also the ideas that, you know, undergird Mary Tyler Moore and certainly broadcast news.

但它的基调更像是莉莉·克诺普和《公园与游憩》

And but the the tone is Leslie Knope and Parks and

《广告狂人》。

Rec.

完全没错。

Totally.

而且，由于这种小镇般的、无名无姓的氛围，角色们彼此对话的方式带有一种模糊的喜剧剧集质感，削弱了许多情节的力度。

And in a way and and because it is this, like, small town unnamed vibe, there is a, like, you know, unspecific sitcom quality to the way they're all speaking to each other that undermines a lot of the situations.

而与此同时，这些情节的 stakes 又确实很大——因为她是一位年轻女性，正在努力理解世界并让世界变得更好。

And then the stakes are both really big, but in in in the sense that she's like a young woman, like, trying to figure out the world and make the world a better place.

但另一方面，她的最终垮台却源于一场四四位数的贿赂丑闻，由她愚蠢的丈夫和当地新闻记者一手策划。

But it's also, you know, it's like her ultimate downfall is like a 4 figure bribery scandal, like by her dumb husband and like the local news reporter.

甚至都不是像《政客》那样的大事。

It's not even like Axios or something.

你知道，这真的非常。

You know, it is like really very.

她为儿童健康法案付出了巨大努力，这种法案在当今的美国比以往任何时候都更需要。

She works so hard for like an incredibly admirable like, we need like child health bills in this country now more than ever.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但他们只是不停地大喊大叫地谈论牙科教育，而这本身是好的。

But like, they just yell tooth tutors a lot to talk about it, which again is good.

教孩子们如何照顾自己的牙齿。

Like, teach children how to take care of their teeth.

她对此有很多统计数据。

And she's got a lot of statistics about it.

是的。

Yeah.

但他们用一种可爱又做作的方式大肆宣传牙科教育，而这显然不是《五角大楼文件》。

But they're just screaming tooth tutors in a way that is like cutesy and gimmicky, and it is also, you know, not the Pentagon Papers.

所以这真的很荒谬。

So it's it's a real it's silly.

然后对剧本的解读并不是以荒谬的方式呈现的。

And then the interpretation of of the script and this is is not played as silly.

它是以非常真诚的方式演绎的。

It's played very sincerely.

确实如此。

It is.

这相当令人困惑。

And it's quite confusing.

本集由亚马逊Prime赞助播出。

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime.

像一部动作大片，假期过得飞快。

Like an action blockbuster, the holidays move quick.

但有了Prime，快速免费配送意味着你最后时刻的礼物能准时送达。

But with Prime, fast free delivery means those last minute gifts arrive right when you need them.

去年，我和儿子一起看《雨中曲》时，意识到一双踢踏舞鞋会是完美的圣诞礼物，于是我在圣诞节那天把它们放在了树下送给他。

Last year, while watching Singin' in the Rain with my son, I realized a pair of tap shoes would be a perfect Christmas gift, and I had them under the tree for him on Christmas day.

在节日期间，Prime的快速配送总能为你提供帮助，尤其是在最后一刻、刻不容缓的时候。

Prime's fast shipping is always there for you during the holidays, especially when it's last minute and just can't wait.

最后一刻的节日魔法，就在Prime上。

Last minute holiday magic, it's on Prime.

立即前往 amazon.com/prime 购买。

Head to amazon.com/prime to shop now.

布鲁克斯这个角色很难把握，因为我觉得《亲密关系》和《新闻广播》都是各自时代完美的电影。

Brooks is a tricky character because I feel like terms of endearment and broadcast news are for their times perfect movies.

没错。

Yeah.

我更喜欢《新闻广播》。

I like broadcast news more.

这是我有史以来最喜爱的电影之一。

That's one of my favorite movies of all time.

我觉得这是一部彻底的经典。

I think a total classic.

伟大的电影。

Great movies.

嗯。

Yeah.

《母女情深》是一部非常动人的剧情片。

Terms of Endearment, very effective melodrama.

你知道，《母女情深》改编自拉里·麦克穆特里的小说。

You know, Terms of Endearment based on a Larry McMurtry novel.

嗯。

Mhmm.

《广播新闻》并非基于真实事件，但CBS新闻制片人苏珊·扎雷姆斯基是关键人物，而霍莉·亨特的角色就是以她为原型的。

Broadcast news is not based on anything, but Susan Zaremski, the CBS News producer, was a critical component, and the Holly Hunter character is based on her.

对。

Right.

想想这一点，再看看布鲁克斯拍的其他电影，挺有意思的。

It's interesting to think about that and then the other films that Brooks has made.

《尽善尽美》在当时是一部非常成功的电影，嗯。

As Good As It Gets was a very big movie in its time Mhmm.

但我感觉它现在的声誉不如当年那么高了。

But I don't feel like it has as strong a reputation as it did.

《我愿意为你》 famously 像是一场惨败，它最初是一部音乐剧，但试映反响极差，于是他们把所有歌曲都删掉了。

I'll Do Anything was famously like kind of a flame out where it started out as a musical, and then it tested so poorly that they took all the songs out of it.

还有《西班牙语》这部电影，正如我在桑德勒播客里提到的，我真的很不喜欢。

And then Spanglish is a movie, as I mentioned, on the Sandler pod that I really don't like.

嗯哼。

Mm-mm.

《你是怎么知道的》被普遍认为是一场灾难。

And how do you know is considered kind of a catastrophe.

这位为世界带来了《玛丽·泰勒·摩尔秀》《辛普森一家》《特蕾西·厄尔曼秀》《出租车》以及这些经典电影的人，早已赢得了卓越的声誉。

And so this guy who has given the world Mary Tyler Moore and the Simpsons and The Tracy Ullman Show and Taxi and these great movies, he has a reputation earned of greatness.

但不可否认的是，这部电影到底想表达什么，根本就毫无清晰可言。

But there's no denying that, like, there is just a total lack of clarity of what this movie is even supposed to be.

你可以指出这些表演。

Like you can you point out the performances.

我觉得你说得对。

I think you're right on.

电影中有一段情节让我完全困惑，就是斯派克·费恩和伊奥德布里之间的部分。

There's a sequence in the movie that I found utterly confounding between Spike Fern and Ioadebri.

斯派克·费恩饰演艾拉·麦凯那情感滞涩的哥哥。

Spike Fern plays the like emotionally stunted aura brother of Ella McKay.

他他他

And he is is is

广场恐惧症，直到被证明不是为止。

Agoraphobic until approved until proven otherwise.

没错。

Yes.

他必须鼓起勇气去拜访他的前女友

And he has to work up the temerity to go visit his ex girlfriend

嗯。

Mhmm.

他们是在混乱的情况下分手的，然后他又试图说服她复合。

Whom he broke up with under confused circumstances, and then recompel her to to get back together.

是的。

Yeah.

那个场景中，我觉得自己像是吃了迷幻药。

I the scene, I felt like I was on mushrooms.

我当时想，斯派克的表演风格到底是什么？

I was like, what what is one spike for his performance style?

他做出了一个选择。

Like, he made a choice.

对吧？

Right?

这就像他刻意选择的一种角色表现方式，用这种语气和方式交流。

It's like that is a character choice that he made to talk that way, to communicate that way.

对。

Right.

我不喜欢这样。

I I didn't like it.

我觉得这种方式行不通。

I didn't think it worked.

你的感受可能不一样。

Your mileage may vary on that.

这非常具体。

It's very specific.

我在电影中给你发消息时提到的那个场景里，我对艾伦·麦凯的解说式对话更有意见。

I had more problems with Ellen McKay's expository dialogue in the scene at which I texted you during the film.

你还在用你的数学方法给人提供体育博彩建议吗？

You're still using your math to advise people on sports betting?

干得好，各位。

Great job, everyone.

嗯。

Yeah.

顺便说一下，那个在影院里的人，所以我才被允许发短信。

That's really person in the theater, by the way, so I was allowed to text.

这部电影里有很多对白，没错。

That there are a lot of lines of dialogue Yeah.

整部电影中都有不少交代性信息的对白，效果并不好。

Of expositional information delivery that are not good throughout the movie.

但你知道，《Vulture》把这部电影称为‘气体泄漏式电影’，我觉得这非常准确，因为有时候你在看电影的某个场景时，会想：这里出了什么问题？

But the the you know, Vulture described this film as gas leak cinema, and I I think that's very accurate because there are times where we half you're where you're in a scene in the movie and you're like, what's wrong here?

比如，大家都还好吗？

Like, is everyone okay?

为什么这样？伍迪·哈里森的表演非常奇怪。

Why is this like this Woody Harrelson giving a very strange performance

嗯。

Mhmm.

作为一个在埃拉童年时期对由丽贝卡·霍尔饰演的妻子出轨的绝望父亲。

As a desperate dad who cheated on his wife, played by Rebecca Hall, earlier in Ella's life.

然后丽贝卡·霍尔的角色去世了，他变成了一个四处漂泊的人。

And then Rebecca Hall's character passes away, and he becomes this kind of itinerary

形象。

figure.

分钟。

Minutes.

这太奇怪了。

Is is very weird.

但他后来又回到她的生活中，就在她即将被任命为州长的时候，因为他需要与她和解，需要她的原谅，以便维持与一个非常注重疗愈的女性的关系。

I don't but then comes back into her life later on just as she's being named governor because he needs to reconcile with her, and he needs forgiveness from her so that he can maintain a relationship with a woman who is really into healing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但这条剧情线始终没有得到解决，他就像一只在她耳边嗡嗡作响的苍蝇，贯穿整部电影。

But that storyline, like, never resolves itself, and he's just like a gnat in her ear throughout the movie.

你根本不知道是否应该觉得伍迪·哈里森的角色是搞笑的还是悲剧的。

And you don't know if you're supposed to think Woody Harrelson's funny or tragic.

我觉得这一切都让人无比困惑。

I found all that incredibly confusing.

库梅尔·南贾尼被浪费在一个奇怪的角色里，他扮演的是一名州警，更像是个保镖。

Kumail Nanjani, like, wasted in a weird part as a state trooper who is Who, like, a bodyguard.

他想维持州政府的预算，因此不希望支付加班费。

Wants to preserve the budget of the state and thus doesn't want overtime.

我对此感到震惊。

I would I was shocked by that.

谁会在意呢？

Who would care?

谁会在意加班预算的问题？

Who would care about overtime budgets?

我们需要保护

We need to protect the sanctity

加班预算的神圣性。

of the overtime budget.

他知道，因为他曾与她相处过，而那是她会在意的事情。

He knows because he spent time with her and that's something she would care about.

嗯，我明白了。

Like, I got it.

我懂了他们的意思，

I got the point they

但再说一遍，这些细节完全与现实脱节，也与电影试图传达的内容不符。

were But again, it's like the the details just don't are not aligned in any way with reality and or what they're trying to communicate in the movie.

这感觉非常——用你之前的话说——是小打小闹，低 stakes。

It feels very to to use your phrase from earlier, small stakes, low stakes.

还有一点，正如你之前提醒我的，当你看电影时，电影直接把创伤具象化了

And the other thing is that as you pointed out to me when you're watching the movie, the movie just literalizes the trauma

我的意思是

I mean

以这么蠢的方式表达这件事。

thing in such a dumb way.

嗯，这其实做了两件事，而这并不是朱莉·卡夫纳的错。朱莉·卡夫纳在电影一开始担任旁白。

Well, so it does it does two things, which is and this is not Julie Kavner's fault, But so Julie Kavner starts the film as the narrator.

她自我介绍为旁白者。

She introduces herself as the narrator.

在见到她之前，你就先听到了她的声音。

And you hear her before you see her.

所以你会想，哦，好吧。

So you're like, oh, okay.

玛吉·辛普森正在为这部电影做旁白。

Marge Simpson is narrating this movie.

而她的开场旁白至少三次，甚至可能四次直接使用了‘创伤’这个词。

And then her opening narration uses the word trauma at least three and maybe four times, quite literally.

埃拉在字典里查了‘创伤’这个词。

Ella looks up trauma in the dictionary.

我忘了这件事。

I forgot about that.

向她弟弟解释时，简直难以置信。

When explaining to her little brother, it was unbelievable.

老兄，那真是

Dude, that's that I

我的意思是，太糟糕了。

mean It was so so so bad.

而且那里还有，这算是‘我也是’剧情的一部分。

And there was like and that's part of like the half me too plot.

这是一部试图只参考2011年或2018年《纽约时报》评论版头条的电影。

Like, this is a movie that is trying, you know, it read a 2011 or I guess 2018 New York Times op ed page headlines only.

然后就想，咱们写点贴合当下潮流的东西吧。

And then was like, let's write something quote unquote to the moment.

真是艰难的内容。

Tough, tough stuff.

我能告诉你这部电影让我想起了哪部吗？

Can I tell you what movie this reminded me of?

说吧。

Tell me.

我的意思是，这正是我自己的心路历程。

I I mean, this was this was my particular spiral.

所以电影结束了，给艾拉·麦凯剧透一下。

So the movie concludes, spoiler alert for for Ella McKay.

杰克·劳登，我非常喜欢的一位演员，是她那个愚蠢的美国丈夫。

Jack Loudon, an actor I love, is her dumb American husband.

这部电影里他确实没得到什么好待遇。

He's been done no favors in this film.

真的，真的让人很难受。

It's really, really upsetting.

而且，表演也非常糟糕。

Also, a very bad performance.

是的。

Yeah.

当然了。

Well, sure.

有些人的确就不该是美国人。

Again, there are just some people who shouldn't be American.

你知道的。

You know?

我们都清楚那个口音是什么。

We all know what the accent is.

我认为我们必须坦诚面对当今口音教练的能力局限。

And I think that we we just have to be honest about the capabilities of accent coaches in this day and age.

总之，杰克·劳登，我真的不明白他为什么生她的气，于是他接受了记者的贿赂。

Anyway, she Jack Loudon, I don't I honestly don't really understand why he's mad at her and so he bribes he accepts a bribe from a reporter.

他将成为本州首位男性配偶，他一直支持妻子实现她的抱负。

He does he's gonna be the first husband of this state and he's a person who has supported his wife through all of her ambition.

嗯。

Mhmm.

她登上了巅峰，但在就职演讲中却未感谢他，他感到被冷落了。

And she has gotten to the mountaintop, and she neglects to thank him in her, you know, inauguration speech, and he feels cast aside.

他想成为一个特别重要的人物，而不只是继承一家披萨店公司的人。

He wants to be a special important guy and not just the the inheritor of a pizza parlor company.

对。

Right.

但他也很愚蠢。

But he's also very stupid.

所以

So

他非常愚蠢。

He's very stupid.

他向一名当地记者行贿，这名记者发现一对已婚夫妇在

He accepts a bribe from a local reporter who's found out that they a married couple had sex on

他提供了贿赂。

He provides a bribe.

哦，他提供了贿赂。

Oh, he provides a bribe.

他给记者开了一张支票。

He writes a check to a reporter.

好的。

Okay.

没错。

That's right.

好的。

Okay.

当然，这名记者永远不会兑现这张支票，因为记者的目的是设局让他陷入丑闻。

Which of course the reporter would never cash because the reporter is trying to ensnare him in a scandal.

但这简直是我听过的最蠢的情节了。

But like, that's the dumbest plot point I've ever heard.

是啊。

Yeah.

哪个政客的丈夫会给记者写个人支票？

What politician's husband is writing a personal check to a reporter?

这纯粹就是写得很烂。

It's just it's just dumb writing.

很糟糕。

Bad

写作。

writing.

吉姆·布鲁克斯真是个传奇。

So Jim Brooks is a fucking legend.

我是个愚蠢的播客主持人。

I'm an idiot podcaster.

我也不明白。

I don't I don't understand either.

这太让人难过了。

It's very upsetting.

这让艾拉作为州长的职业生涯变得悬而未决。

And so that puts Ella's career as the as the governor in doubt.

于是她与州立法机构谈判，这些人在电影中被描绘成地球上最有权力的人——这种对地方政府的信仰，我早就放弃了。

And so she negotiates with the state legislature who are portrayed as the most powerful people on God's earth to that just also like a belief in local government that I, have long since abandoned in this film.

没错。

Yep.

于是她在姑妈的酒吧里达成协议：如果他们通过儿童健康法案并包含两名家教，她就辞职并不再参选。

So she negotiates in her aunt's bar that she will resign and not run again for office if they put the child health bill through, and they include the two tutors.

嗯。

Mhmm.

最终，结果是艾伦·麦凯当了三天州长，她的工作完成了，但却无人认可。

So in the end, the resolution of this is that Ellen McKay gets to be governor for three days, and her work is done, but she gets no credit for it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

她除了可能还有个兄弟之外，家人一个都不剩了，因为兄弟同意搬出家门。

She's and she doesn't have any of her family left except for maybe her brother because he's agreed to leave the house.

这让我深深想起了《实习生》。

This reminded me deeply of the intern.

这是我非常敬佩的一位影坛前辈晚年拍摄的另一部电影，讲述的是千禧一代女性如何在个人和职业上遭受羞辱，却不知为何。

Another late career movie made by a true hero of mine that is just about how a millennial woman must be personally and professionally humiliated, in order to don't know what.

我该从中学到什么？

What am I supposed to take from this?

这就像是，你只有在一无所有的时候才能拥有全部，而你唯一拥有的，只有你自己。

It's just like you you can only have it all if you don't have anything, and you you have yourself.

太好了。

Great.

非常感谢大家。

Thanks so much, everyone.

这些是我们一些最杰出电影人带来的艰难教训。

These are challenging lessons from some of our finest filmmakers.

是的。

Yeah.

你只能成为一个好的离异父亲，

You can only be a good divorced father

对。

Right.

如果你去做单口喜剧的话。

If you do stand up comedies.

而且，你只有在公开受辱的情况下，才能成为新英格兰一个小州的称职州长。

And you can only be a capable governor of a small state in New England if you are publicly embarrassed.

对。

Right.

而且再也找不到工作了。

And don't have a job anymore.

嗯，这不对。

Well, that's not true.

然后她开始提供法律援助。

Then she starts legal aid.

但接着天啊。

But then oh my god.

那是我，我忘了这个结局了。

That was I I forgot how this ends.

好吧。

Okay.

真的很令人钦佩。

So really admirable.

她创办了一个非营利组织，支持住房并防止驱逐。

She starts, like, a nonprofit to support housing and to to prevent evictions.

所以他们就像在呼叫中心一样。

And so they're, like, they're, like, in the call center.

库梅尔·南贾尼的角色现在为呼叫中心工作，而不是为州政府，他们正在接电话，这时打来一个非常重要的电话。

Kumail Nanjiani's character is now working for the call center instead of the state, and they're, like, manning the phones and, like, a really important call comes through.

他们说：天哪。

And they're like, oh my god.

我就知道。

I knew it.

我就知道我们做到了。

I knew that we did it.

于是他们把一张纸递给她，你本以为艾拉又要当州长了之类的。

And so they, like, hand her the piece of paper, and you had, like, expect, like, Ella's gonna be governor again or something.

她说道：各位，我想宣布一个消息。

And she's like, everyone, I'd like to announce I just got the news.

今年我们成功帮助了8,342人避免无家可归。

We have saved 8,342 people from, you know, houselessness this year.

我当时想：天哪。

And I was like, oh, no.