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同时也要感谢Ringer播客网络的支持。
We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast network.
我周一上传了一期新的‘重温推荐’。
I put up a new rewatchables on Monday.
我们刚做了《天生一对》，这周一因为整个三月我们以喜剧为主题搞个玩笑企划，所以我和克里斯·莱恩、范·拉森还有乔尔·安德森一起聊了《热带惊雷》，这是乔尔第一次上我们的节目。
We did There's Something About Mary, and then this Monday, because we're doing comedies all month for Netflix as a joke month, I did Tropic Thunder with Chris Ryan and Van Lathan and Joel Anderson, first time for him on the pod.
这期节目会在周一下午某个时候上线。
So that's coming at some point Monday afternoon.
记得留意这一期。
Stay tuned for that one.
今天这期节目开头我会自由发挥一下，因为今晚有两场篮球赛。
For this podcast, I'm going to freelance a little bit at the top because we had two basketball games tonight.
我脑子里蹦出一堆零散的想法，但最想聊的是我们的嘉宾——大卫·莱特曼。自从2007年开播以来，这节目已经二十年了，他一直是我梦寐以求的采访对象，从2012年请到拉里·伯德之后，他就一直排在第一位。
I had a lot of scattered thoughts, but I really wanted to get to our guest because David Letterman, after I've had this podcast since 2007, so this is the twentieth year I've had the podcast, and he was always bucket list someday, maybe, really number one for a long, long time ever since I had I had Larry Bird in 2012.
那之后，真正接下来的就是莱特曼了。
And then really after that, it was Letterman.
我小时候最崇拜的三个人是鸟人、莱特曼和艾迪·墨菲。
My three guys growing up were Bird, Letterman, Eddie Murphy.
所以现在，艾迪·墨菲成了我最想请上节目的人，但能请到莱特曼，真的太棒了。
So I guess now Eddie Murphy moves into the pole position of guy I really need to get on my podcast, but, having Letterman was incredible.
他待会儿会来。
He's coming up later.
我先聊点篮球的事。
I'm gonna do some basketball first.
我本来想在开头放一段听众来信，算是向他当年的‘读者来信’环节致敬——虽然我这里是听众来信，但灵感确实来自他。
I thought about doing a viewer mail at the top just as an homage to, or listener mail in my case, just as an homage to the mailbags that he used to do because, I took the concept in 1997, the moment I had my own column.
那时候我正琢磨着，自己做专栏该做点什么。
I was trying to figure out things I wanted to do.
我第一时间就想搞个来信栏目，因为我亲眼看到莱特曼的这个形式有多成功。
One of the things I wanted to do right away was have my own mailbag because I knew it worked because of Letterman.
他对我人生的影响特别大，能坐下来和他聊天真是特别荣幸。
He had a huge impact on my life, and it was an absolute pleasure to sit down for him.
我们聊了差不多七十五分钟，所以我赶紧切入这部分内容。
We talked like, it was, like, seventy five minutes, so I wanna get to that as fast as possible.
开头我们得聊不少篮球相关的话题。
We have a lot of basketball stuff to cover at the top.
马上就开始。
We'll do it in one sec.
我们先休息一下，然后进入职业拳击环节。
We're gonna take a break, then pro jab.
本节目由FanDuel赞助播出。
The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.
这个季后赛打得真够刺激的，还没结束呢。
It's been a wild playoff run, not over yet.
FanDuel想让你更贴近球场，让每一刻精彩都活灵活现地呈现在你面前，亲爱的篮球迷。
FanDuel wants to bring you closer to the court to make all of that action come to life for you, the basketball fan.
FanDuel 是NBA季后赛期间下注球队、球员和精彩瞬间的最佳平台，可以组建同场赛事串关，赢取更高奖金，也可以尝试实时投注，在开球后立刻加入战局，随你怎么玩。
FanDuel, the best place to bet the teams, players, plays during NBA post season, build a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout, or try live betting and jump into the action right after tip-off, whatever you want.
实时投注的魅力就在于此。
That's the whole point of live betting.
现在就下载FanDuel体育博彩应用，开始你的下注体验。
Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app right now and play your game.
仅限21岁以上地区，华盛顿特区、肯塔基州和怀俄明州为18岁以上。
21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming.
如有赌博问题，请拨打1800。
Game problem, call 1800.
拨打(888) 789-7777，或访问ccpg.org/chatconnecticut。
Call (888) 789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chatconnecticut.
好了。
All right.
这个开场环节由New Era赞助。
This top segment is brought to you by New Era.
我现在是在雷霆对湖人第二场赛后录的，这场球对湖人来说至关重要。
I am recording right after Thunder Lakers game two in Oklahoma City and game two was the game for the Lakers.
面对OKC这样的强队，前两场你必须至少赢下一场。
You got to steal one of the first two against the team as good as OKC.
他们拼尽了全力。
They gave it everything they had.
全场投篮命中率高达百分之五十，三分球百分之四十，罚球百分之九十。
They shot fifty, forty, 90 from the field.
要是真能打出这样的数据，谁都会觉得胜券在握。
You do that, you feel like you're gonna be in the game.
结果呢？完全不是这么回事。
Nope.
他们输了18分。
They lost by 18.
第三节，OKC打出了一波23比5的高潮。
OKC ripped off a 23 to five run-in the third quarter.
突然间比赛就结束了。
Suddenly it was over.
他们的阵容实在太深了。
They're just too deep.
他们的实力太吓人了。
They're too scary.
看看他们的技术统计吧。
Look at their box score.
今晚有谁打了超过三十分钟吗？
Did they have anybody that even played thirty minutes tonight?
让我看看。
Let's see.
切特打了三十二分钟。
Chet, 32.
米切尔打了三十分钟。
Mitchell played 30.
华莱士打了三十分钟，但他们一共用了十个人轮换。
Wallace played thirty, but, you know, they played 10 guys.
他们实际用的人可能更多，但基本上就是十分钟左右一换的轮转节奏。
They really played more than that, but really they had this ten minute rotation.
杰伦·威廉姆斯今晚只打了十四分钟。
Jaylen Williams played fourteen minutes tonight.
他是去年夺冠路上球队的二号人物，但现在我觉得他排到第三了，因为切特已经正式穿上蝙蝠侠的披风——哦不，是那个总在演戏的蝙蝠侠，SGA。
He was their second best guy during the title run last year, and now he's, I think, their third best guy because I think Chet has officially put on the Robin costume to Batman, to flopping Batman, SGA.
我开玩笑的。
I kid.
就是说笑一下。
I joke.
这就是为什么我没法真的支持SGA拿MVP，虽然我完全理解为什么有人投他。
This is why I couldn't really get there with the SGA MVP, even though I don't begrudge anybody who voted for him.
我只是觉得，这支雷霆队太厉害了，深度、投射、防守，各种阵容轮换，天天都有人能站出来扛事。
I just think this OKC team is incredible with the depth, the shooting, the defense, all the different lineups they have, guys that can step up night after night after night.
我一直在看湖人队的表现。
And I'm looking at what the Lakers did.
我觉得JJ在这两场比赛里表现得太棒了。
I thought JJ did an awesome job in these two games.
全队都特别专注。
The whole team was locked in.
他们的进攻配合打得很有章法。
They were running good plays.
他们防守策略很对，就是死盯SGA，逼他传出去，让其他人来打，这才是该有的做法。
Their defensive strategy to, you know, kind of really hound SGA, press them, force the ball to other guys, that's what you should have done.
下半场他们一度追得很紧，比分就差个四五分，可根本没用，因为雷霆随时能打出一波流。
They were in these games in the second half where you'd look up and they, you know, it was like a six point game, four point game, and none of it matters because OKC can just do these runs.
因为卢卡从四月二号起就一直缺阵，湖人把原本他那三十五分钟的出场时间，分给了表现糟糕的拉里比亚十来分钟，给了肯纳德十来分钟，给了鲁伊和里夫斯十五分钟，还得指望马库斯·斯玛特。
Basically, the Lakers, because Luca has been out since I think April 2, they're turning thirty five Luca minutes into about 10 for LaRabia, who's been a bust, 10 extra for Kennard, 15 extra for Rui and Reeves, and then on top of that, you're relying on the Marcus Smart.
他今天十三投才中了四个。
He was four for 13 today.
我觉得他在那两场比赛里表现还可以，咱们再看看。
I think he is for the the two games let's see.
我记下来了。
I have it down.
要么是27投8中，要么是28投8中，反正是这两个数之一，但你还是得靠他。
Eight for 27 or eight for 28.
你得依赖他。
It's one of those two numbers, but, so you're relying on him.
我其实特别欣赏勒布朗现在的打球方式。
I actually really like how LeBron's playing.
这场系列赛开始前，我一直在担心，勒布朗面对俄克拉荷马这群猛兽，会不会显得太老了。
One of the things that I had flagged for this series was how old was LeBron gonna look now that he's going against, like, you know, the Oklahoma City Pitbulls.
但他现在还能顶得住。
He's kinda holding his own.
我的天，41岁的勒布朗，打出这样的表现，真有点不可思议。
I mean, this is pretty incredible what's happening here at age 41 LeBron.
确实，休斯顿队的表现很散乱。
It's certainly something you know, the Houston was disjointed.
那支队伍挺怪的。
It was a weird team.
教练水平一般，还缺个控球后卫。
They were poor the coach, didn't have a point guard.
勒布朗第五场打得确实差，但整体来说系列赛表现不错，也就那样吧。
LeBron, he stunk in game five, but for the most part had a really good series, and it was like, alright.
咱们走着瞧吧。
Well, let's see what happens.
对手是俄克拉荷马城。
Gets OKC.
他状态一直很好，可这些都没用，除非俄城哪场投篮命中率掉到30%左右，否则他们肯定会被横扫，但我根本不觉得那会发生。
He's been, he's been really good, and none of it matters, and they're gonna get swept unless OKC just has a game where they shoot, like, 30%, which I don't see it happening.
他们能应对的招数太多了。
They just have too many answers.
湖人队的表现确实可敬，而且他们比凯尔特人撑得更久。
So, noble effort by the Lakers, and they lasted longer than the Celtics.
即使他们没赢过一场季后赛，他们还是比凯尔特人坚持得更久。
Although if they don't have a playoff win, no, they still last longer than the Celtics.
真他妈的。
Fuck.
我提两点。
Two notes.
今晚我看了A.J.米切尔的比赛，简直太出色了。
I was watching AJ Mitchell tonight, who was just incredible.
他明明是个替补，但需要的时候也能首发，而且还能模仿SGA打得有模有样。
Really, really good when you think like he's a bench player who can also start when they need him, but he can also do like a pretty good SGA impersonation.
他才第二年，合同还特别便宜。
He's only a second year guy and he's on a cheap contract.
我琢磨着，OKC、马刺或者森林狼，这三队里肯定有一支能夺冠，但OKC最被看好。
And I wonder, like, assume OKC or San Antonio or Minnesota, one of those three teams will win the title, but OKC's the favorite.
他们又拿下了总冠军。
They win the title again.
AJ Mitchell表现这么好，值得拿他去换第12顺位的选秀权吗？
Is AJ Mitchell, has he been good enough that you could trade AJ Mitchell with the number 12 pick?
我猜他们会在选秀抽签中拿到第12顺位。
Because I assume they're gonna land number 12 in the lottery.
可能还有其他选秀权，毕竟他们手头还有几个未来的签，也许还能把卢·多尔特搭进去交易。
And maybe other picks that they have because they have some future ones down the road, maybe Lou Dortz in the trade.
他们能不能玩点花样，来个1.3比1的交易，把顺位往上挪到第四顺位，去选凯拉·威尔逊，再搞个顶级新秀？
Could they get creative and do like 130¢ on the dollar type of trade and move up to the fourth pick and try to get Kayla Wilson, try to get another blue chipper?
你知道，当年杜兰特和威斯布鲁克那会儿，球队的根基就是顶级新秀。
Because the foundation of this team, you know, during the Durant Westbrook, Cardin era, blue chippers.
现在这一代，有萨格斯、杰伦·威廉姆斯、切特·霍姆格伦，全是顶级新秀，得不断补充这种人才，而且最好都是新秀合同在身的。
During this era, you have SGA and you have Jaylen Williams, you have Chet Holmgren, you have blue chippers, and you gotta replenish the blue chippers, and you also want guys on rookie deals.
我琢磨着，AJ Mitchell到底能值多少筹码？
And I wonder like, much of an asset is AJ Mitchell?
我记得Legler那时候在节目里，应该是十一月底或者十二月，我们正聊到对AJ Mitchell的印象特别好，因为他那会儿SGA缺阵了几场，他上场时间一下子多了起来。
Because Legler was on here, I remember, I'm gonna say it was either late November or December, and we were talking about how impressed we were with AJ Mitchell, and he was getting big minutes because I think SGA was out for a couple games.
那时候我们就想，这小子是不是真能自己带一支球队？
And we were just like, could this guy run his own team?
会不会有点像杰伦·布伦森当年在达拉斯的情况？
Could you look at this like a Jalen Brunson situation?
当年布伦森在达拉斯，卢卡在对阵犹他的系列赛里受伤，他站出来接管了球队，那场面真是让人意外。
When Jalen Brunson was on Dallas and Luca got hurt in that Utah series, and Jalen Brunson came in and he kind of ran the team in a way where like, what's this?
如果我是别的队的总经理，正想着怎么快速提升实力，我会怎么想？
Is AJ Mitchell, if I'm a GM on another team and I'm thinking about, how could I elevate fast?
比如说亚特兰大拿到了第四顺位，剩下的人选是凯莱布·威尔逊或者卡姆·布泽尔。
Like, let's say Atlanta gets the number four pick and Caleb Wilson is the guy left or Cam Boozer.
我个人更倾向凯莱布·威尔逊，但假设他已经被选走了，亚特兰大这时候想，要么选凯莱布，和现有核心一起培养两三年，看看发展；要么就拿AJ Mitchell，再搭上第十二顺位和卢·多尔特，反正他们也有薪资空间。
I would personally take Caleb Wilson over Cam Boozer, but let's say Caleb Wilson has left, and you're Atlanta, and you're like, well, we could take Caleb Wilson here, put him in with the nucleus we have, give it a couple years, we'll see where it goes, or we could get AJ Mitchell, we could get the twelfth pick, we could get Lou Dort because they have calf space too.
他们能不能来个‘教父式’操作，直接把球队交到AJ Mitchell手里，立刻提升竞争力？
Like, could they do some sort of godfather move to try to be better right away and put the team in AJ Mitchell's hands?
我觉得他实力足够，说不定在合适的球队能当个性价比版的贾马尔·穆雷，或者类似谢伊那样的球员。
I think he might be good enough to maybe be like a discount Jamal Murray or a discount Shay on the right team.
他一路成长的势头，已经充分证明了这一点。
He's certainly shown it in the leaps that he's made.
这就是为什么周日的乐透抽签，我们之后马上会在Netflix上做全程解读。
This is why this lottery on Sunday, which we're gonna be covering right afterwards on Netflix.
这次乐透充满了变数，从印第安纳的快船签开始，再到谁都没打算交易的情况。
This lottery has so many variables to it, starting with the Indiana Clippers pick, but then also who lands nobody's trading one.
如果你拿到第一顺位，那肯定就是选德班扎。
If you get one, you're taking DeBanza.
第二、第三、第四顺位，哪些队会后移、哪些队会压力太大，都很难说；而如果是雷霆，手握这么多天赋，你难道不会多想想吗？
I think two, three, four, it's debatable teams moving back teams maybe being overwhelmed, and then if you're OKC, like you're stashing all this talent, you start thinking about it?
当然，现在他们肯定想着冲冠、卫冕，压根没空想这些，但我相信萨姆·普雷斯蒂心里一定在盘算这些。
Now, of course, I'm making trades for them, and they're trying to win the title this year and go back to back, and this is the last thing they're thinking about, but I do think this is what Sam Presti thinks about.
所以，你盯紧米切尔就行。
So just watch Mitchell.
他在季后赛里场均能拿17分左右。
He's averaging, I think, 17 a game in the playoffs.
他可以说是表现最好的替补球员，虽然今晚他首发了，但你懂我的意思。
He's arguably been the best bench guy, even though he has not you know, he started tonight, but you know what I mean.
那接下来会怎样呢？
So where does that go?
这会导向什么结果？
Where does this lead?
也许他会成为以第十二顺位加上其他筹码交易的核心对象。
Maybe it leads to him being the focal point of a trade with the twelfth pick and some other stuff.
这个值得留意。
Keep an eye on that one.
接下来的五周里，会发生很多事。
There's gonna be a lot of stuff that happens this next five weeks.
另外，回放系统也得改进。
The other thing is the review system has to be better.
今晚这场比赛快三个小时了，第四节明明有好几次明显犯规，球员一路畅通无阻，裁判却都没吹。
This game was almost three hours tonight, and we had a couple of no brainers where it was like in the fourth quarter, there's an obvious clear path pal, foul.
照理说，只要往回放屏幕一看，稍微一琢磨就明白了，直接判了不就完了。
Seems like you just go over to the monitor, you watch it once, like, oh, yeah, and and then you just do it.
有好几次明显是恶意犯规，他们却盯着回放，慢悠悠地像克里斯托弗·诺兰在剪《奥德赛》似的。其实看一遍回放，十秒钟内就能判断清楚了，真搞不懂为啥不提速。棒球联盟都加了投球计时器，搞这么多小改动来加快节奏，NBA倒好，完全没这意思。
There was a couple flagrant possibilities, and they just stare at it, and they're watching replays like they're Christopher Nolan editing The Odyssey, and it's like, just look at the replay, you should be able to know within ten seconds, I don't understand why they haven't sped this up, And you have a sport like baseball that has added the shot clock and all these little wrinkles to just increase the pace of the game, the NBA just seems completely uninterested in it.
我的建议是，别急着扩军，先把现有比赛的质量提升上去再说。
So maybe instead of expansion, maybe try to improve the product before we start adding teams to the product would be my advice.
反正我觉得俄克拉荷马这轮该横扫的。
Anyway, I think OKC, I thought they were gonna sweep.
我现在还是觉得他们会横扫。
I still think they're gonna sweep.
要是你是湖人队，你又没卢卡，那也没辙。
And if you're the Lakers, you didn't have Luka.
要说还能干点啥，大概就只能拿个首轮签去换达桑·穆了。
I don't know what else you could have done other than maybe trade a number one pick for Dassun Mu.
我还是觉得他改变不了这个系列赛的结果。
I still don't think he changes the outcome of this series.
你有个很棒的教练，而且勒布朗已经做得够多了。
And you have a really good coach, and might, LeBron's done enough.
我觉得你应该考虑以更小的合同把他请回来，然后重点培养里弗斯，围绕他们俩建队——除非克利夫兰继续这样下去，这事儿我们待会儿聊，因为现在克利夫兰的情况太糟了，夏天搞不好大家真会盼着勒布朗回来救场。
I think you have to think about trying to bring him back on a smaller deal and trying to pay Reeves and then trying to build around them, unless Cleveland keeps doing what they're doing, which is what we're gonna talk about next, because this Cleveland thing is going so bad that we are now moving into a scenario of LeBron as the savior over the summer.
我本来觉得这赛季不会发生，因为我从没想过米切尔会同意，但说实话，米切尔现在也没多少发言权了。
I didn't think it would happen during this season because I never thought Mitchell would allow it, but honestly, Mitchell doesn't have a lot to say.
他从来没在季后赛真正拿得出手过。
He has never really had true playoff success.
数据是不错，可他从没带队打出过像样的战绩，你看这轮系列赛，凯德才是全场最突出的，米切尔根本不是。
The stats are fine, but he has never made a run, and you watch this series, and Cade's the best guy in the series, and Mitchell isn't.
凯德掌控着比赛的方方面面，米切尔却做不到，我觉得他已经没资格跟球队说‘不能引进勒布朗’了。
Cade's controlling all aspects of it, Mitchell isn't, And I think Mitchell has probably lost the right to tell the team, You can't get LeBron.
这支球队肯定会有动作，不过我先聊聊底特律。
This team's gonna make some moves, but I wanna talk about Detroit first.
他们已经连续赢了五场季后赛。
They've won five straight playoff games.
基本上就是凯德表现得太出色了，再加上塔比奥斯的发挥也够用。
It's basically Cade just being awesome, and then enough Tobias.
我觉得过去一周半，塔比奥斯的状态特别好。
I think Tobias has been really strong the last week and a half.
每次进攻时间还剩八秒，他们都知道可以把球传给他。
They always know they can go to him with like eight seconds left in the shot clock.
他能拿到一个还不错的出手机会，转身跳投很稳。
He'll get like a decent shot, he can get his turnaround.
他们的防守表现非常出色。
Their defense has been great.
他们完全压制住了骑士队。
They've bullied the Cavs all over the place.
今晚他们干的事简直太疯狂了。
What they did tonight was nuts.
我觉得克利夫兰唯一还算有点希望的，其实也不确定这算不算好事——底特律三分球28投14中，比赛直到最后两分钟还咬得很紧。
And I think the only good sign for Cleveland, I don't even know if this is a good sign, Detroit went 14 for 28 from three, and this game was still close with two minutes left.
所以如果你是克利夫兰，你肯定在想：他们投得这么准，我们打得这么烂，回到主场还能翻盘。
So if you're Cleveland, you're thinking, they shot the lights out, we played like crap, we're going be home, we can flip this.
问题不只是关键时刻防不住，也不只是追防三分射手时手忙脚乱，邓肯·罗宾逊那种情况简直太离谱了。
The difference is not only can they not get stops when it matters, not only did they have trouble chasing the three point shooters around the line, that Duncan Robinson stuff was terrible.
他明明只会干一件事，你们还让他绕掩护，放他空位投篮。
Like literally, he can do only one thing, and you're letting him move around picks and getting wide open shots.
我之前担心克利夫兰的问题，就是觉得他们防守太靠不住，你只要想出手，基本都能拿到好机会，尤其是三分球。
Thing I was worried about with Cleveland, why I thought last series would be tough just because their defense is so sketchy, especially, you know, I just feel like you can get good shots and three point shots on them if you want.
底特律现在就是这么做的。
Detroit's doing it.
底特律这轮系列赛打得比之前任何一场都好，但明天大家肯定又要把锅全甩给哈登——系列赛到现在28投9中，还送了11次失误。
Detroit looks now the best they've looked all playoffs, but then you look at, you know, Harden's gonna take all the shit tomorrow because he's nine for 28 in the series 11 turnovers.
今天他更是13投仅3中。
Today it was three for 13.
他四投零中，三分球也是零中，还有四次失误，正负值低了15分。
He was zero for four and threes, four turnovers, was a minus 15.
防守比进攻还要糟糕。
The defense was worse than the offense.
他现在的速度对他来说太慢了。
He looks slow for him.
他以前打球总是慢条斯理地找空位，但现在被活塞队逼得像个老人，好几次运球突破都丢了球——这些动作他职业生涯前十六年闭着眼都能完成。
He always played like at a methodical pick to spots kind of way, and just actually, Detroit's making him look old, and he's lost the ball multiple times on moves that he used to make in his sleep for the first sixteen years of his career.
到目前为止，这笔交易简直就是灾难，除非你把它看作纯粹的薪资清理，也许本来就是这么打算的，毕竟加兰德还有几年合同，快船队接下了。
So this trade so far has been a disaster, unless you just think of it as a salary dump, and maybe that's what it was, because Garland had that contract for a couple more years the Clippers took.
我不确定他们和哈登是不是心照不宣地达成了什么协议，但如果他真以为自己下赛季还能拿四千万，那对一支早就超奢侈税的球队来说，这太不负责任了。
I don't know if they made a wink wink deal with Harden, but if he thinks he's gonna make $40,000,000 next year or something, like that would be irresponsible for a team that's way over the luxury tax anyway.
他就是表现得太差了。
He just hasn't been good.
最让人意外的是，他职业生涯里从来没有任何迹象表明，他在季后赛里会这么拉胯。
And the crazy thing is there were no signs at all that James Harden might stink in a playoff series over the course of his career.
我们之前说没证据？其实我们有十五年的证据了。
We had no evidence Oh, I guess we had a decade and a half evidence.
我觉得莫布利才更值得关注。
Mobley is the one that's more interesting to me.
我本来以为哈登在季后赛里会起伏不定，肯定会有漏防的时候，也会有发挥糟糕的比赛，不过说不定第三场他就能砍下27分10助攻，看起来又像那么回事了。
I assumed James Harden would be up and down in the playoffs, and he'd probably forget to guard people, and he'd have some bad games, and I'm sure maybe he'll come back in game three and have 27 points and 10 assists, and it'll look fine.
然后他又会掉链子。
Then he'll stinky.
他还是会走他那套典型的哈登过山车模式。
He'll do his whole James Harden roller coaster ride.
对我来说，莫布利的问题更严重。
Mobley is the more egregious one to me.
他今天全场只得了9分，抢了1个篮板。
He's put up nine points and one rebound today.
不是第一节，是整场比赛。
Not in the first quarter, in the whole game.
这简直就是一场你根本忘了他上场的比赛，而他才24岁，阿特金森赛后还替哈登找借口。
It was a classic I forgot you were out there game, and this is, you know, he's 24 years old, and Atkinson made excuses for Harden after the game.
他意思差不多就是：咱们不能让我们的名人堂球员下半场只出手两次，我认了。
He's basically like, we can't have our Hall of Famer take two shots in the second half, I'll take that one.
我觉得他其实完全可以多打一点，现在詹姆斯·哈登的表现，早就不是名人堂水准了。
I would argue he probably could, and I think he's playing like a Hall of Famer anymore, James Harden.
他真正该说的是：我真希望伊凡·莫布利在这轮系列赛里能站出来，因为底特律队现在完全压着我们打。
What he really should have said is, I'd love for Evan Motley to show up in this series because Detroit's pushing us around and pounding us.
我收到一封邮件。
I got this email.
我本来打算开头做个读者来信环节，结果脑子里篮球想法太多，干脆没搞。
I was gonna do a mailbag at the top, but I ended up having too many basketball thoughts.
来自澳大利亚的扎克·康诺利写道：我简单点问，伊凡·莫布利现在的表现，跟他的真实潜力比起来，算差吗？
Zach Connolly from Australia wrote, I'll keep it simple, does Evan Mobley suck compared to what he should actually be?
这个问题挺有意思。
Interesting question.
不是他表现差，而是我们心里对他的期待太高了，他配得上这个标准吗？
So it's not that he sucks, it's just the standard we have in our head, does he suck for that?
他已经多次打进季后赛，可成绩却没什么拿得出手的。
He now has multiple playoff appearances and nothing to really show for it.
你那件埃文·莫布利的球衣现在怎么样了？
What are you doing with your Evan Mobley sock?
我收藏了好多件，从他被选中的那天起就一直在收。
Which I have a ton of from when he got drafted.
好了，五年过去了，他现在24岁。
All right, so we're five years in, he's 24 years old.
这个年纪，你该开始展现出自己未来会成为什么样球员的迹象了，我觉得。
This is where you should start showing signs that you're rounding into the player you're gonna be, I think.
他场均能拿18分9个篮板。
He's an 18 and nine guy.
从头到尾，他的表现一直都很稳定，就是这个水平。
This is what he's been pretty consistently all the way through.
他一直都是18分9篮板的数据。
He's been eighteen and nine.
今年三分命中率只有30%，反而退步了。
Shot 30% from three this year, and he went backwards.
去年感觉他三分球正在慢慢进步。
Like last year, it felt like he was coming on as a three point shooter.
但这个赛季情况正好相反。
It went the other way this season.
每次季后赛，他的数据都会下滑到差不多17分8篮板。
In the playoffs, every playoffs he's dropped to basically being a seventeen and eight.
这也没啥大不了的。
It's fine.
去年他还入选了最佳阵容二队。
He made second team all NBA last year.
今年连提名都没拿到。
He was not in consideration this year.
让我担心的是，他现在比三年前明显进步了吗？
And the fear for me, is he noticeably better than he was three years ago?
还是说从第二年开始，他的表现就一直停滞不前，只是在重复同样的东西？
Or did we just kind of flatline it from year two on as he just doing this?
因为你二十岁的时候，从24年到27年应该是你不断提升的阶段。
Because when you're 20, I think from '24 to '27 is when you should be going up.
到26、27岁的时候，你的身体素质应该达到巅峰，球技也差不多定型了。
And by '27, '26, '27, you should be at the peak of your athletic powers and pretty close to the peak of who you're going to be as a player.
我怕他现在就已经定型了，能耐就这么大了。
The fear is he might be a you are what you are guy at this point.
当然，你也可以说，要是没有贾里德·艾伦在那儿当中锋，他的数据可能会好看一点。
And I don't really you know, you could say maybe if they didn't have Jared Allen, he was center, maybe his stats would go up.
他简直就像个缩小版的五号位。
Maybe he's almost like a smaller ball five.
没错。
Sure.
这是合同金额，因为明年才生效。
Here's the contract numbers because it kicks in next year.
五年两亿六千九百万美元。
Five years, $269,000,000.
我得到的是一位出色的防守球员，今年他连最佳防守阵容都没入选，但去年有。
I'm getting a really good defensive player who I don't think got any all defense votes this year, but did last year.
而且我还能拿到场均十八分九个篮板。
And I'm getting eighteen and nine.
可我总觉得他的比赛影响力没达到顶薪球员该有的水平，我不禁怀疑，他会不会最后成了替罪羊？
And I'm getting situations where I don't really feel him, I don't feel his impact in the game the way I should for a max guy, and I wonder, will he be the fall guy?
他到底值不值这个价？
What's he worth?
假设篮网抽到了探花签，手握大量薪金空间，明年又没有自己的选秀权，那他们今年就有动力打得更好；而骑士则必须避开奢侈税。
Like, let's say Brooklyn got the third pick in the draft, and they have a ton of cap space, and they don't have their pick a year from now, so it's actually in their interest to be better this year, and Cleveland really has to get away from luxury tax.
要是他们直接用莫布利换探花签，会怎么样？
And what if they offered Mobley straight up for the third pick?
这值不值？
Is he worth it?
你更想要新秀合同的卡姆·布泽尔，还是凯莱布·威尔逊，或者愿意每年花五千万签莫布利？
Would you rather have Cam Boozer on a rookie contract or Caleb Wilson on a rookie contract, or would you rather pay Mobley 50,000,000 a year?
如果你是骑士队，是宁愿省下四千万，把其中一半给勒布朗，然后重组球队？
And if you're the Cavs, would you rather save 40,000,000, give half of that to LeBron, and that's your new team?
你拥有的是凯莱布·威尔逊和勒布朗，而不是伊万·莫布利。
You have Caleb Wilson and LeBron instead of Evan Mobley.
我觉得这些正是外界会不断追问骑士队的问题，而现在，骑士队已经站到了最主动的位置——我做好了应对一切的准备。
I just think these are the questions that are gonna be asked about the Cavs, and the Cavs have now moved into pole position for I'm prepared for anything.
我准备好迎接米切尔要求交易了。
I'm prepared for Mitchell to ask for a trade.
我准备好他们直接把米切尔交易走了。
I'm prepared for them to just trade Mitchell.
我准备好莫布利会被交易了。
I'm prepared for a Moby trade.
贾里德·艾伦倒是好处理，他工资没那么高，但一年也还有三千万，对一个不是全明星的中锋来说，这钱真不少。
Jared Allen would be easy because he's making less money, but he's still making, you know, 30,000,000 a year, which is a lot for a center that's not an all star.
至于哈登，他们到底留不留他的合同？
And then Harden, are they gonna keep his contract or not?
这支球队啥都可能动，字母哥能交易，拿贾马尔·默里换米切尔，这种疯狂操作都有可能。
This team, everything's in play, Giannis is in play, pick up Jamal Murray for Mitchell, like crazy shit like that.
如果他们继续这么打下去，简直会变成历史上最疯狂的交易机器，而且现在的交易，感觉更偏向硬碰硬的实质交换。
They're just gonna be an all time trade machine if they continue to proceed in this series like they are, and the trade, I think, is just more physical.
我觉得他们拥有最强的球员，也觉得他们会赢下这一轮，我真不信克利夫兰能连赢四场翻盘。
I think they have the best player, and I think they're gonna win this series, and I find it hard to believe that Cleveland will come back and win four out of five.
这样一来，很多问题就浮出水面了，比如埃文·莫布利到底怎么安排？球队下一步往哪走？
So that will open the door for a lot of stuff, including what do we have with Evan Mobley, where are we going?
尼克斯对76人，第二场真精彩，比分一直拉锯。
Knicks Sixers, really fun game two, lot of lead changes.
我压根没觉得费城能赢。
I never felt like Philly was gonna win.
现在恩比德没上场，但我就是觉得尼克斯能搞定，说不上来为什么。
Now, Embiid wasn't playing, but I just kind of trusted the Knicks to finish it, and I don't really know why.
我这种信任感就跟去年看凯尔特人时一样——那时候我根本不信他们能守住领先优势，眼睁睁看着优势一点点溜走。
I trusted in the same way where last year with the Celtics, I didn't trust the Celtics to hold onto the lead as it was evaporating.
恩比德只打了不到一周，居然就把凯尔特人淘汰了，然后自己又倒下了。
Embiid lasted a week and somehow knocked out the Celtics and then went out again.
这五天里，我接到的电话、邮件、短信全是关于凯尔特人的，所有绿军球迷都在琢磨：这到底发生了什么？
And I can't tell you how many phone calls, emails, texts related to the Celtics I've been on, as all the Celtics fans have spent the last five days just kind of wondering what the F happened.
他为啥没设出场时间限制？
Why wasn't he at a minutes limit?
为啥让塔图姆拼到脱力？
Why did they run Tatum into the ground?
为啥让罗恩·哈珀打第七场首发？
Why did Ron Harper start game seven?
为啥放弃整个常规赛都奏效的打法？
Why did they get away from their style that worked for the whole regular season?
他们干嘛让武切维奇上场？
Why did they play Vucevic at all?
为什么不从头到尾让乔丹·沃尔什和雨果去盯住马克斯，就耗着他？他可是整个系列赛的关键。
Why didn't they just put Jordan Walsh and Hugo on Maxey for the entire game and just try to slow him down and wear him down because he was the key to the entire series?
他们干嘛不学尼克斯在第一场那样，让恩比德打挡拆？
Why didn't they put Embiid into the pick and roll stuff that the Knicks just immediately did in game one?
整个系列赛，凯尔特人明明有现成的制胜方法。
Just the recipe that was sitting there for the entire series for the Celtics.
我得喝点蜂蜜水。
I need some honey water.
等一下。
Hold on.
这个得拍下来。
I want that on camera.
我之前就是这么做的。
That's how it worked up I had.
得喝点水润润嗓子。
Had to get water for my voice.
但这真是我记忆中波士顿球队最惨的一次系列赛失利了，就像我连续三档播客里说的，他们压根没觉得自己会输给费城。
But really one of the worst series losses I can remember for a Boston team because as I've said now in three podcasts in a row, I don't think they ever thought they were losing to Philadelphia.
他们把这系列赛当成了试验场。
I think they used the series as this testing ground.
先随便玩玩，等情况不对劲了才慌了神。
Let's fuck around and then panicked when things started to not work out.
76人这次表现真不错。
So the sixers, it was great.
他们顺利晋级下一轮。
They advanced to the next round.
但他们会被尼克斯淘汰。
They're going to lose the Knicks.
我觉得最讽刺的是，他们反而把凯尔特人对76人的局面给反转了。
And I think the best thing is they flip those Celtics Sixers situation.
他们重新提升了保罗·乔治的交易价值，这非常关键，因为我觉得现在他们要是想甩掉这份合同，随时都能办到。
They revive Paul George's trade value, which is huge because I think they can get off that contract now if they want to.
不过他们也可能不想这么做。
They might not want to.
他对付布朗和塔图姆的时候，甚至在对阵尼克斯的第二场比赛里，我都觉得他完全跟他们硬碰硬地拼了。
The way he went at Brown and Tatum, and even in in Knicks game two, I thought, he really went toe to toe with those guys.
他们翻盘的唯一希望，就是法恩杜尔·奥坎波的伤势没好透。
Their one chance of coming back is if FanDuel Ocampo's not healthy.
看起来他得等到第三场临上场前才能确定能不能打。
It seems like he's gonna be a game time for game three.
第三场裁判的判罚会怎么吹，咱们就拭目以待吧。
We'll see what they do with the refs in game three.
尼克斯队的优势在于阵容深度，他们大不了让布里奇斯顶上阿努诺比的位置就行。
The thing with the Knicks is that they're deep enough that, you know, they'll just tell Bridges to go in the Anunobi role.
他们完全可以靠替补阵容打下去。
They'll play their bench.
他们的替补阵容挺强的，我觉得。
They have good bench guys, I think.
我真没想到这系列赛能打满五场以上。
And I would just be surprised if this went more than five games.
克里斯·莱恩说过，我们之前做过重看集。
And I think the big mistake, Chris Ryan said it, we did rewatchables.
我们周一录了《热带惊雷》的重看内容，那时候连76人对尼克斯的比赛都没看过，他就说：‘咱们今晚干嘛非得打这场？’
We taped the Tropic Thunder rewatchables on Monday, and Chris Ryan said it, we hadn't even seen a Sixers Knicks games yet, and he was just like, don't know why we're playing a beat tonight.
我们赢不了的。
We're not gonna win.
干嘛非得让他们跑这么多路？
Why are we putting the miles on them?
该休息就休息，干脆把第二场当重点打，结果克里斯·莱恩好像比76人队自己还懂，他一说，对方球员还真都伤了。
Rest them, like make game two the game, and somehow Chris Ryan knew more than everyone on the sixers because they played him and ended up getting banged up.
咱们看看他会不会上场吧。
We'll see if he plays.
我不觉得这会有什么影响。
I'm not really sure it's gonna matter.
如果尼克斯真把这轮系列赛搞砸了，那绝对能排进史上最遗憾的之一，因为现在看起来他们完全掌控了局面。
And if the Knicks end up blowing this, it would really rank way, way up there because it just feels like they're in complete control.
尼克斯的球迷，我认识不少，现在比打亚特兰大系列赛第四场时淡定多了。
Knicks fans, I know a lot of them, a lot calmer than they were before game four of the Atlanta series.
我收到一封托尼·Showtime发来的邮件，说最近几个月卡特的防守进步了不少。
I got an email from Tony Showtime who said, in the last few months, Kat has improved his defense.
他犯规少了，也逐渐承担起了组织和领导的责任。
He's fouling people less and has stepped into a playmaking leadership role.
从技术上讲，确实如此。
Technically true.
他现在场均差不多有六次助攻。
I mean, he is averaging like six assists right now.
而且他这个人还挺讨人喜欢的。
He's also just kind of likable.
我一直在跟朋友说，他这是在给我演《洛奇4》。
I've been telling my friends he's Rocky Four ing me.
卡特就是《洛奇4》里的洛奇，而我呢，就是台下那个俄罗斯观众。
Cat is Rocky in Rocky Four, and I am the Russian crowd.
我一开始根本不是他的粉丝，但他的表现和韧性让我彻底服了。
I came into the experience not as a fan, but his play and perseverance has won me over.
你有没有被哪个运动员像《洛奇4》那样圈粉过？
Have you ever been Rocky Four ed by an athlete?
别管那些乱七八糟的事，别忘了喂猫。
Take care of BS, don't forget to feed house.
这是Tony Showtime说的。
That's from Tony Showtime.
我可没随便说，是认真想过才这么说的。
I put some thought into that.
我一直在想，谁是我人生中那个最像《洛奇4》里的人物，第一个想到的就是JD·德鲁，当年红袜队在两千年初签下的那个，我打心底里讨厌他。
I was trying to think who my greatest Rocky IV guys were, and number one is JD Drew, who the Red Sox signed in the mid two thousands, and I just really disliked him.
他在打击时耐心十足，天哪，我根本没想到他能打出安打。
The patience at the plate, oh, and I just never thought he was gonna get a hit ever.
他打球太被动了。
He played passively.
他身上完全没有2004年红袜队的那种精神，我们却花了七千万美元签他五年，可我从来就不喜欢他。
He didn't have the spirit of the o four Red Sox, and we paid him, I think, 70,000,000 for five years, and I never liked him.
结果他居然在对印地安人队时打出了那记七千万美元的满贯全垒打，直接扭转了2007年季后赛的局势，彻底让我对他改观了。
And then, he hit the $70,000,000 grand slam against the Indians and ended up swinging the 2007 playoffs, and he totally Rocky Ford me.
我现在认可他了。
I have him.
我欣赏德里克·洛。
I have Derrick Lowe.
多年来，德里克·洛和红袜队的经历就像坐过山车，后来他投出了一场无安打比赛。
Roller coaster ride with Derrick Lowe and the Red Sox for years there, and then, he threw a no hitter.
然后他就成了季后赛英雄。
Then he became, a playoff hero.
我的意思是，2004年有那么多英雄，他就是其中最出色的之一。
I mean, with so many heroes in 2004, and he was one of the best ones.
我记得他好像只休息了两天就上场投球了，那些季后赛比赛都混在一起了，但他确实是英雄之一。
I think, I can't remember, he pitched on like two days rest, and all those playoff games blend together though, but he was one of the heroes.
所以他算一个。
So he's one.
当爱国者队签下克里斯·霍根的时候，我总觉得他们太偏爱白人球员了，可他在季后赛里突然爆发，接了几个关键球，彻底赢得了我的信任。
Chris Hogan, when the, Patriots signed him, and it just seemed like we've pushed it one too many white guys too far, and then he came up big in the one playoffs, and made a couple of big catches, and gained my trust.
他让我彻底改观，而波尔津吉斯是我最后一个这样的人。
He rocky forward me, and then Porzingis was my last one.
我真的很担心波尔津吉斯，他到底能打出什么样子？
I really was worried about Porzingis, what was that going to look like?
他怎么就跟卢卡合不来呢？
Why couldn't he play with Luca?
交易本身没错，但我心里从来就没真正接受过他，可等到2024年总决赛打完，我愿意为他冲进火海。
The trade made sense, but deep down, I was never a Porzingis guy, and then by the time we finished the twenty twenty four finals, I would have run through a while for him.
我觉得这四个就是我选的了。
So I think those are my four.
最后一位，尼古拉·武切维奇。
Finishing last, Nikola Vucevic.
我觉得他属于那种‘洛克五号’类型。
I think he's a Rocky five guy.
我最后就是这么定的。
That's where I landed on him.
上一轮，森林狼对马刺。
Last series, Wolves Spurs.
我当时觉得森林狼在季后赛后面的比赛里会大放异彩，但第二场他们打得有点松，反正已经赢了一场，后面怎么打都行，结果马刺表现得太出色了。
I thought the Wolves were actually gonna have the eye of the Tiger the rest of the playoffs, and they played game two with, we got one already, the rest is gravy, anytime that you could see it right away, and the Spurs played great.
他们早早就把福克斯打出来了。
They got Fox going early.
他们试了卡特·布莱恩特，我觉得这招对这一轮特别关键，因为他防兰德尔和纳斯·里德的时候，能和温比一起撑起一点身高优势。
They tested out Carter Bryant, which I feel like is gonna be really important for this series because the way he guards Randall and Nas Reed gives them a little size with Wimby.
这场赢得太漂亮了。
Nice win all the way around.
他们把他彻底打垮了。
They killed him.
马刺就是那种一旦领先二十分，看起来就特别强大的球队。
The Spurs are one of those teams where when they're up 20, they look unbelievable.
不过我还是有点担心他们在关键比赛最后四分钟的表现。
Still a little worried about them in the last four minutes of tight games.
等我们到了明尼苏达，看看情况会怎样吧。
We'll see what happens, you know, when we get to Minnesota.
我觉得这轮系列赛还是五五开。
I still feel like this is a fiftyfifty series.
第二场根本没让我担心。
That game two did not scare me off.
周二做播客的时候，我和尼克·赖特聊了很多这事。
Nick Wright and I talked a lot about it Tuesday's pod and whatever.
这简直就是一场大胜的剧本。
It was a recipe for a blowout.
我没看那场比赛。
I didn't see it.
我还以为明尼苏达会强势出击，结果他们只是拿到了该拿的那场胜利。
I thought Minnesota was gonna show up, but they got the game they needed to get.
先回答几个邮件里的问题，然后再聊莱特曼。
A couple of mailbag questions, then we'll get to Letterman.
这是弗兰克发来的。
This is from Frank.
你之前做过乐透运势排名，提到热火自1988年以来就没抽到过前十顺位。
You did the lottery karma rankings and mentioned the heat not having a top 10 pick since 'eight.
你提到了BAM那场83分的比赛，但真正让迈阿密背负 karma 的，其实是罗杰交易里他们吃大亏，只换回了一个次轮签。
You mentioned the BAM 83 game, but the biggest karma coming Miami's way is Miami getting screwed on the Roger trade, only getting a measly second round pick back.
联盟让他们悬着好几个月，最后居然裁定迈阿密连自己的首轮签都拿不回来。
The league left them in limbo for months and then ruled that Miami couldn't even get its own first back.
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这会不会让篮球之神赐给他们一些好运，让他们今年抽到前四顺位呢？
Could that incentivize the basketball gods to sprinkle enough karma to grant them a top four pick this year?
这是Frank发来的。
That's from Frank.
你知道吗？
You know what?
我错了就是错了。
When I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
我本该想到这一点的。
I should have thought of this.
他们在罗杰这笔交易上真是被坑惨了。
They really got screwed on that Roger thing.
他们换来了一个现在正因操纵比赛接受联邦重罪调查的球员，那事儿是他还在黄蜂队时干的。
They traded for a guy who is now under a federal felony investigation for point shaving, for stuff that he did when he was on the Hornets.
所以没错，我得调整一下我的排名了。
So yeah, I have to adjust my rankings.
我还是把印第安纳排第一，亚特兰大第二，华盛顿第三，迈阿密第四，因为我忘了罗杰那笔交易。
I still have Indiana first, Atlanta second, Washington third, and I think Miami's fourth, because I forgot about the Roger trade.
这得算不少乐透 karma 分了。
Think that's a lot of lottery karma points.
谢谢弗兰克提醒我这一点。
So thanks to Frank for, for pointing that one out.
这条来自摩根·泰勒，他是多伦多猛龙队的球迷。
This comes from Morgan Taylor, who is a Toronto Raptors fan.
他说，马赛，你真是哈里·斯坦。
And he says, Masai, you Harry Stan.
他还说，作为猛龙球迷，我现在最担心的就是扬尼斯想转会达拉斯。
And he says, my biggest fear now as a Raptors fan is that Giannis asked to go to Dallas.
在首场新闻发布会上，扬尼斯一出来就说，他一直梦想为弥赛亚打球。
And in the opening press conference, Giannis comes out and says, he's always wanted to play for Messiah.
他们俩的关系可不一般，早就认识了。
These guys have had a long time relationship.
我们一开始觉得字母哥可能离队的时候，多伦多一直都是潜在目标。
And when we first thought Giannis might be available, Toronto was always a team.
摩根说，我一直觉得多伦多很有机会签下他，直到他们为了省点钱，炒掉了NBA最出色的总经理。
Morgan says, I really felt like Toronto had a solid chance of landing him up until they fired the best exec in the NBA to save a few bucks.
你怎么看？
Thoughts?
我还真没想过这一点。
I hadn't thought of this.
我光顾着琢磨字母哥和杰伦·布朗的交易了，琢磨着值不值得为他出手，以及他带着那么多伤病和消耗，还能在巅峰状态撑几年。
I've been very focused on Giannis Jaylen Brown trades, and whether it made sense to trade for Giannis and how many years he could have left here at an elite level with a lot of miles on him and a lot of injuries last year.
我甚至都没意识到，波士顿可能根本不是最有竞争力的球队。
And I didn't even realize Boston might not even be the main contender.
达拉斯的情况就特别合理。
The Dallas, they makes a ton of sense.
如果我是达拉斯，手里有这个签位——具体能抽到第几还得看乐透结果，但大概率在第一到第八之间。
If I'm Dallas, I have that pick, which we'll see what happens in the lottery, but they're gonna be somewhere between one and eight.
我觉得他们有大概百分之三十五到三十六的概率能掉到前四，但我们就假设他们会落在第六到第八位吧，这个顺位在本届选秀里还是能拿到很不错球员的，而且很适合做交易筹码。
I think they have, like, a 35, 36% chance of moving to the top four, but let's let's say it's gonna be six, seven, eight range, which will still be a really good player in this draft and I think a nice trade thing.
我一直在琢磨他们能拿出什么，以及密尔沃基那边想要什么。
I was trying to figure out things they could do and things Milwaukee would want.
有个挺有意思的情况：凯尔特人手上有个高达两千八百万的交易特例，他们完全可以拿这个去签加福德，毕竟他们缺中锋，而加福德年薪将近两千万；然后把豪泽送回达拉斯，填进他们的交易特例里。
And one thing that would really help, ironically, the Celtics had this giant $28,000,000 trade exception, So they could take Daniel Gafford in the trade because they need another center, and he's making almost 20,000,000 a year, send Hauser back to Dallas into the trade exception they have.
这样一来，达拉斯能省下一千万，还能腾出空间把字母哥签下来。
So Dallas would save 10,000,000 there and then be able to add Giannis.
而密尔沃基呢，能拿到克莱·汤普森、纳吉·马歇尔、马克斯·克里斯蒂，还有达拉斯二〇二六年的首轮签、雷霆二〇二六年的首轮签——虽然他们那个签是末尾的，但总归是首轮。
And then Milwaukee, they would get the Clay Thompson, Najee Marshall expiring, Max Christie, Dallas is twenty twenty six first, OKC's twenty twenty six first, because they have that end of the round, but still.
再加上湖人二〇二九年的首轮，说不定还能搭个选秀权互换。
And then they have the Lakers twenty nine first, and maybe throw in a swap there.
我唯一觉得密尔沃基不会做这笔交易的原因是，他们未来五年都没法控制自己的选秀权。
And the only reason I don't think they would do this trade, Milwaukee, is because they don't have control of their picks the next five years.
所以，光为了省钱、换一堆选秀签，根本解决不了根本问题：万一明年我们成了联盟倒数前三，却连自己的签都没有，那怎么办？
So just doing a trade for picks and to save money basically doesn't help the situation of, well, what happens if we have a top three worst team next year and we don't have our pick?
但这确实挺有意思的。
But it is interesting.
所以我在想，如果要拿选秀权来换，而不是只靠达拉斯，得加多少才值得？
So I wonder like what would be the tipping point of picks instead of Dallas that I'd have to throw in there?
如果我是达拉斯，我肯定会尽一切努力，争取把凯里、库珀·弗拉格和扬尼斯都搞到手，当然得在合理范围内。
If I'm Dallas, I'm doing everything I can to end up with Kyrie, Cooper Flagg, and Giannis, you know, within reason.
要是没成，那也没办法。
And if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen.
真正有意思的是，看看扬尼斯的交易价值到底有多高，有多少球队真的想抢他。
But really interesting to see what Giannis' trade value is and how desperate teams are to go after him.
我们已经聊这个话题九个月、十个月了，但我感觉很多球队其实都在这么想。
And, you know, we've been talking about it for nine, ten months, but I think a lot of teams are looking at this the same way.
这家伙从2013年选秀到现在已经十三年了，近几年几乎没完整打过一个健康赛季。
Guy's been in the 2013 draft to now thirteen years, hasn't really been 100% healthy through a season for a few years now.
那你到底是在换什么？为了冒这个险，愿意付出多大代价？万一他真成了2010年代中期的德怀特·霍华德呢？
And what are you trading for, and how much do you want to trade for the risk of this could be Dwight Howard in the mid-2010s for all we know?
我在想我们队要是这么干会怎么样。
Thinking about that with my team.
我觉得凯尔特人会考虑这个，是因为杰伦还剩三个巅峰年头。
I think the reason the Celtics would think about it is Jalen's got the three huge years left.
字母哥只剩下一个巅峰赛季了。
Giannis has one huge year left.
再给他签个续约，总薪资差不多就能持平。
You'd add an extension to that, so the money would be around the same.
然后就看运气了。
And then you would hope you get lucky.
你要是看了布拉德·史蒂文斯的发布会，就能感觉到他对季后赛的表现很不满意，尤其是球队投三分投得太疯了。
If you saw Brad Stevens' press conference, he was not happy with the playoff series, how the team played, being as three point happy as they are.
他好几次提到扣篮，还说要打得更硬朗，感觉他话里有话，明显在为交易字母哥铺路，咱们走着瞧吧。
He mentioned dunks multiple times and mentioned just being more physical, and it felt like he was laying a lot of breadcrumbs to a Giannis trade, so we'll see.
这事儿最后可能真会变成字母哥来，我觉得随着越来越多球队赛季结束得不痛快，想交易他的队伍会越来越多。
This could end up being Giannis, I think the teams will keep adding to the list as more and more teams have unhappy endings to their season.
来自多伦多的汤姆，这最后一个我来回答。
Tom from Toronto, this is the last one I'll do.
哎，我还剩两个。
Oh, I got two left.
多伦多的汤姆想知道，波士顿本地体育广播的内容，有没有哪段时间比现在更火爆？
Tom from Toronto wanna know, has there ever been more of a peak time for local sports radio content in Boston?
幸好我现在不在那儿。
Thank God I'm not there right now.
从弗雷贝尔到杰伦，再到红袜队，话题一个接一个，全都是热点。
From Vrabel to Jalen to the Red Sox, just hot topics all around.
以前有过比这更热闹的时候吗？
Has any other time beaten it?
现在体育广播的话题，你得明白波士顿体育广播的风格——向来以负面为主，永远觉得杯子只有一半满，所以这简直就是宝藏。
So right now for sports radio topics, and you have to understand Boston sports radio, which is notoriously horribly negative and always glass half full at all times, so this is like a gold mine.
凯尔特人首轮就掉链子，乔·马兹把塔图姆累垮了，杰伦·旺又伤退，再加上假戏真做的字母哥交易。
You have the Celtics choking in round one, Joe Mazz, ran Tatum into the ground, does Jalen Wan out and fake Giannis trade.
这简直就是一场盛宴啊。
So that's the smorgasbord right there.
红袜队刚解雇了他们的主教练。
The Red Sox just fired their manager.
他们的总经理跟机器人一样。
Their GM's a robot.
他们还背负着穆基·贝茨的诅咒。
They have the curse of mookie bets.
自2018年以来，他们就没拿过冠军。
They have won since 2018 now.
他们已经犯了二十个蠢招，人人都盼着约翰·亨利赶紧把球队卖了。
They've made 20 dumb moves, and everyone wants John Henry to sell fodder all the way around.
棕熊队已经十五年没进过总决赛了，白白浪费了帕斯塔的职业生涯。
Bruins, fifteen year cup drought, wasting pasta's career.
他现在都三十岁了。
He's 30 years old now.
他们在乐透抽签中被坑了，本来如果枫叶队的顺位再掉一位，他们就能拿到第六顺位，结果却说枫叶队中了头彩。
They just got screwed over in the lottery where if the Maple Leafs pick dropped one spot, they got the sixth pick in the draft and said the Maple Leafs won the lottery.
你看看这事儿。
See of that.
还有爱国者队，超级碗输得特别难看。
And then you have the Patriots, embarrassing Super Bowl loss.
你还可以讨论他们到底是不是真有实力，从第四名的赛程突然变成第一名的赛程，德雷克·梅伊、迪迪·罗波多帕，这些事儿全凑一块了。
You can do the were they ever good all along, fourth place schedule to first place schedule, Drake May, Didi Ropodopa, so you have all that.
还有AJ·布朗的交易，再加上林肯爱国者队的主教练弗雷贝尔，卷入了波士顿体育界有史以来最疯狂的两三个丑闻之一。
You have the AJ Brown trade, and then you have Vrabel, the head coach of the Lincoln Patriots, being involved in one of the two or three craziest Boston scandals ever for sports.
所以事情就是这么个情况。
So there's that.
我把我脑子里这些年都翻了一遍，最后挑出了一个年份。
So I went through all the years of my head, and I settled on a year.
我能想到的唯一一个这么充满戏剧性的年份，就是1996年。
The only one I could think of that was as kind of loaded is this one, 1996.
我说的是96年冬天到97年，那会儿住在波士顿真是够倒霉的。
So I'm talking winter 'ninety six into 1997, which was one of the worst winners to live in Boston, in general.
那年我们好像遭遇了四场大暴风雪，但爱国者队居然打进了超级碗，结果帕尔塞尔却决定要走了。
I think we had like four blizzards that year, But we had the Patriots made the Super Bowl, then Parcells, decided he, was on his way out.
他不打算再执教这支球队了。
He wasn't gonna coach the team.
刚跟克拉夫特一起打进超级碗，转头就听说他可能要去喷气机队，真是够闹心的。
So breaking up with Kraft to make the Super Bowl, find out that he was maybe even planning to do the Jets, and so we had that.
大家都站队了。
Everyone's taking sides.
有人怪克拉夫特，有人怪帕尔塞尔，电台里吵得不可开交，再加上超级碗输了，简直炸了锅。
People are blaming Kraft, Parcells, unbelievable talk radio topic, and the Super Bowl loss.
凯尔特人那会儿已经彻底摆烂，就等着抽中蒂姆·邓肯，而邓肯当时还在打大学篮球。
You had the Celtics who were in full tank mode at that point for Tim Duncan, and Tim Duncan's playing college basketball.
棕熊队那年更是联盟垫底，表现差到极点。
You had the Bruins who were the worst team in the league that year.
他们最后也故意输球了。
They ended up tanking as well.
接着克莱门斯离开了红袜队，惹怒了所有人。
And then you had Clemens leaving the Red Sox and drawing the ire of everybody.
我们当时气坏了。
We were so mad.
我记得2001年为ESPN写的第二或第三篇文章，标题是《罗杰·克莱门斯是反基督吗？》。
I think my second or third piece ever for ESPN in 2001 was called Is Roger Clemens the Antichrist?
而且那年洋基队刚拿了世界大赛冠军。
Also with the Yankees just won the world series.
如果要说波士顿球迷最黑暗的时期，我觉得96年比这更糟。
So if you're just talking about like a dark, dark, dark place for Boston fans, I think 'ninety six was worse.
虽然这些年波士顿的球队好事不断，但那会儿真是各种糟心事堆一块，正好引出我收到的最后一封邮件，来自佛罗里达帕克兰的扎克。
We've had a lot of good stuff happening with the Boston teams, but this is a lot of fodder, which leads to my last email from Zach in Parkland, Florida.
维拉贝尔和罗西尼丑闻的最大赢家，真的是德雷克·梅吗？
Is the big winner out of the Vrabel Rossini scandal actually Drake May?
季后赛表现糟糕，再加上超级碗上的惨淡发挥，整个休赛期都得背负着这个污点。
Had a terrible playoff run capped with a Super Bowl performance that would have followed him all off season.
但弗拉贝尔像个真正的领袖，把这副重担完全从年轻四分卫身上卸了下来。
However, Vrabel, like a true leader, has completely taken that burden off his young QB.
就算迈克明年开局慢热，弗拉贝尔也几乎注定还得替他扛锅，毕竟他惹出的乱子实在太多了。
Even if May starts off slow next year, it's almost a guarantee that Vrabel will still be shouldering the blame due to the chaos he has caused.
来自帕克兰的扎克。
Zach from Parkland.
终于，弗拉贝尔和罗西尼丑闻里冒出了一丝亮光。
Finally, a silver lining in the Vrabel Racine scandal.
这个故事我之前专门做过一期，大概两三周前，说这事儿简直疯了。每次我以为要结束了，又冒出新料，直到今天——TMZ拍到怀孕七个月的黛安娜·里奇尼，偷偷和迈克·弗拉贝尔在田纳西州乘船出游，而她肚子里还怀着未来的孩子迈克尔。
This story, I did a whole thing, I think, two, three weeks ago about how crazy this story was, and every time I think it's over, something else happens, leading to what happened today, which was TMZ video of a seven months pregnant Diana Riccini going on a clandestine boat trip in Tennessee with Mike Vrabel while she was carrying her future son, Michael.
是啊，这事儿真是疯得离谱。
Yeah, This is a fucking crazy story.
今天我跟我爸聊天，头一回一起问：他还能继续当主教练吗？
This is the first time I talked to my dad today where we were like, can he still coach the team?
他会不会请个假？
Is he gonna take a leave of absence?
还会不会有更多料爆出来？
Is more stuff gonna come out?
有他们2001年还是2021年在船上的一段视频？
There's video of them on a boat trip in 2001 2021?
每天都能看到她上好几个播客的短视频，而Vrabel不是也在节目里，就是她在谈她老公。
It feels like every day there's three social media clips of her on some podcast, and Vrabel's somehow on the show too, or she's talking about her husband.
这事儿简直是个噩梦。
This story's a nightmare.
替所有牵扯进来的人感到难过，可就是挪不开眼睛。
I feel so bad for everybody involved, and yet you can't look away.
就像一场车祸一样，让人想看又不忍看。
It's like a car accident.
说实话，我以前有个‘泰森效应’，从2000年初开始，只要一听说是关于迈克·泰森的新闻，我根本不用怀疑，直接信了。
Honestly, I used to have this thing, the Tyson's Zone, when any story, I think I started in the early 2000s, where the Tyson zone got to the point where you would just believe any story about Mike Tyson.
你肯定会想，迈克·泰森跟一只僵尸蝙蝠打起来了，还咬掉了蝙蝠的头。
You'd be like, Mike Tyson got in a fight with a zombie bat and bit the bat's head off.
你心里就信了。
You're like, I believe it.
我现在对这个拉奇尼·弗拉贝尔的故事也到这地步了。
I'm hitting that point with this Racini Vrabel story.
我从一开始根本不想提这事，到现在都担心咱们可能要换教练了。
I went from I don't want to talk about this at all to being like, wow, we might lose our coach.
要说我们为啥不换他，大概是因为咱们老板自己也没干净到哪儿去。
And I guess the only reason we wouldn't is, you know, our owner doesn't have a clean slate of things that's happened with him either.
也许他会稍微宽容一点。
Maybe he'll be a little more forgiving.
我这已经尽量在说好话了。
I'm trying to be nice.
这事儿真是疯得离谱。
Just a bonkers story.
我没什么好说的了。
I don't have anything else to say.
只希望别再有视频流出来了，求你了。
I just hope no more videos come out, please.
我认输了。
I'm tapping out.
我认输了。
I'm tapping out.
我真希望阿诺德·斯卡伦能出手，把我从这个铁面锁喉里救出来。
I'm like, I need Arnold Scalen to throw I'm in the camel clutch with the iron cheek.
我需要阿诺德·斯卡伦直接扔白毛巾，赶紧救你一命。
I need Arnold Scalen to throw the white towel in and save you.
我真的得从这个雷·博鲁西尼的故事里抽身了。
I really need to tap out from this Ray Borussini story.
求你了，别再说了。
Please, no more.
拜托了，我们先休息一下，马上回来，和我的偶像大卫·莱特曼一起。
Please, please, we're gonna take a break, and we're gonna come back, with my hero, David Letterman.
比尔·西蒙斯的播客由FanDuel赞助播出。
The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.
NBA季后赛正打得火热。
The NBA playoffs is going strong.
每一次进攻都至关重要。
Every possession matters.
今晚的每一个进球都能扭转比赛局势。
Every bucket swings the game tonight.
趁现在下注，赢面更大，因为今晚所有用户都能享受额外奖金。
Your shot to boost the bet, because all customers get a profit boost tonight.
关键时刻，你的赢面也会翻倍，FanDuel为同一场比赛的串关投注提供了更高赔率。
So when the moment hits, your win hits bigger, and FanDuel has given you better payouts on same game parlays.
整个NBA季后赛期间，你可以押注，比如你觉得费城队能逆转击败尼克斯队。
All NBA playoffs along, you could target let's say you think Philly's gonna come back and beat the Knicks.
如果你相信这一点，我肯定会押上费城胜率的高分盘。
I would definitely put a maxi points over on that bet with the Philly money line, if you believe that.
圣安东尼奥对明尼苏达，如果你觉得明尼苏达在惨败后能翻身，这背后有不少不错的投注数据。
San Antonio, Minnesota, if you think Minnesota's gonna right the ship after getting blown out, a lot of good betting stats for that.
你可以试试兰德尔的得分加篮板组合，我上一场就押了这个，结果输了。
You could definitely maybe do the Randall points rebounds, the one I tried at game two at loss.
不妨再试一次，押明尼苏达赢球。
You could give it another whirl and try that with Minnesota to win.
赶紧下注，提升赔率，让季后赛为你带来更大回报——这是NBA官方指定的FanDuel体育博彩。
Lock in your bets, boost your odds, make the playoffs pay off with FanDuel official sports betting part of the NBA.
前往 fanduel.com/bs 开始你的投注。
Head to fanduel,uh,.com/bs to get started.
FanDuel，玩出你的风格。
FanDuel, play your game.
仅限21岁以上地区，华盛顿特区、肯塔基州和怀俄明州为18岁以上，具体限制请见说明。
21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming restrictions apply.
详情请见 sportsbook.fanduel.com 的条款。
See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com.
如有问题，请拨打 1800 或 (888) 789-7777，或访问 ccpg.org/chat 获取帮助，仅限康涅狄格州。
Game and Problem, call 1800, call (888) 789-7777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut.
本节目由州立农场保险公司赞助。
This episode is brought to you by State Farm.
日复一日在球场上苦练，投出上千次投篮，就在那根州立农场的标志杆旁。
Countless hours in the gym, a thousand shots before tip-off, day after day on the same court, with the State Farm stanchion right there.
没错，顶尖球员都肯下功夫，州立农场也是如此，他们的保险顾问同样认真负责。
That's right, the best players put in the work, and State Farm is the same way, with insurance experts who put in the work as well.
无论你是在线获取报价，还是联系本地代理，州立农场都会用心了解你，帮你找到最适合你生活和预算的保障方案。
Whether you get a digital quote, or reach out to a local agent, State Farm is there to get to know you, and help you select the right coverage that fits your life and your budget.
真正让优秀球员变成顶级球员的，就是这份坚持，这也是为什么你该选州立农场当你的伙伴。
Putting in the work is what separates the good players from the great, and that's why you want State Farm on your team.
选一份真正适合你的保障，像好邻居一样，州立农场始终在你身边。
So get the coverage that's right for you, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
保险方案由客户自行选择，具体可用性和资格条件因州而异。
Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability and eligibility vary by state.
大卫·莱特曼来了，真不敢相信。
David Letterman is here, can't believe it.
我也不敢相信，比尔，非常感谢你。
I can't believe it either, Bill, thank you very much.
我们刚才聊到
We talked about
谢谢你邀请我，我真的很感激。
this Thanks for for having inviting me, I really appreciate this.
说真的，我感到很荣幸。
I feel honored in some respect.
邀请你？
Inviting you?
你根本不用邀请，这事儿本来就是你说了算。
You needed to invite yourself, because this was up to you.
真的吗？
Just Really?
很高兴你在这儿。
Glad you're Yeah.
要是我自己主动来的，那我岂不是显得没那么重要了？
Oh, well, now I feel less important if I invited myself in here.
谢谢你邀请我，也谢谢你包容我，
But thank you for having me, thank you for tolerating me,
也谢谢你为未来的一切付出。
and thank you for whatever we have ahead of us.
你之前来洛杉矶是为了
So you were here for LA for
Netflix，没错。
Netflix That's is a right.
对了，我们昨晚还跟约翰·穆拉尼聊了。
Oh yeah, we talked to John Mulaney last night.
我也不太清楚，就是特别喜欢这孩子。
I don't know, I just love the kid.
他太出色了。
He's tremendous.
人特别好。
He's so nice.
脑子特别灵。
He's so bright.
特别幽默。
He's so funny.
多才多艺得不得了。
He's so multi talented.
我觉得他会让同组的其他喜剧演员压力很大，因为他就是那个别人得拼命追赶的人。
And I think he would make it difficult for other comedians in his group because he is the guy to chase, boy.
你觉得他不管在哪个年代，都会一样成功吗？
Do you feel like he's somebody that in any era he he would have been exactly as successful?
我觉得你说得对。
I think I think you're right.
你之前其实提到过这一点，我觉得确实适用在他身上，因为他根本不受限于某个特定年代。
I think you alluded to that earlier, and I think that does apply to him because he doesn't seem to be locked into the February.
你明白吧？
You know?
他要是生在九十年代，甚至更早，也一样能火。
Could have been in the nineteen nineties and and earlier for heaven's sakes.
你儿子在上大学？
So you have a son in college.
是的，我儿子在上大学。
I do have a son in college.
怎么了？
Why?
这感觉就像在和克雷斯金合作一样。
This is like working with Kreskin.
我女儿也在上大学，不过我女儿在上大学，儿子还在读高中最后一年。
Well, I have a daughter in college, but how much I have the daughter in college and a son who's a senior in high school.
是的。
Yeah.
通过你儿子，你从喜剧和内容创作中学到了多少？
How much have you learned from comedy and content just through your son?
没多少。
Not much.
他不太给你特别强烈的
He doesn't give you the intense
他性格很内向。
He's very little.
他这个人，我真不知道该怎么形容。
He's he is I I don't know how to describe him.
他不怎么主动表达。
He's not he's not forthcoming.
他并不冷淡。
He's not standoffish.
他就是不太愿意跟爸爸分享。
He just would rather not share with his father.
挺有意思的。
Interesting.
是啊。
Yeah.
我老是追问孩子：你在看什么？
I'm always badgering my kids, what are you watching?
是啊。
Yeah.
你对什么感兴趣？
What do you care about?
是啊。
Yeah.
这些人是谁？
Who are the people?
我也老问儿子，但他总说‘是的’。
Well, badger my son as well, but the response is always, yeah.
你关心什么？
What do you care?
所以我说，他真让我害怕。
So he I I will say he frightens me.
从他出生起，我就一直怕他，因为一开始我总担心自己会做错什么事伤到他。
From the time he was born, I've been afraid of him because in the beginning, I was fearful that I would do something that might damage him.
是的。
Yeah.
我还不断提醒他妈妈。
And I kept cautioning his mother.
我说，别把他摔了，你总听说有婴儿被摔的事。
I said, don't drop him because you hear these stories about infants being dropped.
她说，哎呀，别担心。
She said, oh, don't worry.
我不会把他摔了的。
I'm not gonna drop him.
有一天我在上班，中午突然接到个电话。
So I'm at work one day, and I get a call in the middle of the day.
哎呀，真对不起。
Oh, I'm so sorry.
我不小心把孩子摔了。
I dropped the baby.
我说：天哪，果然还是摔了。
I said, Oh, good Christ, there you go, you've dropped the baby.
恭喜你啊。
Congratulations.
我的天啊
Oh my
孩子明显没事。
Baby was obviously okay.
是的，孩子没事，除非他现在对爸爸态度不好就是因为这事。
Yeah, the baby is okay, unless that's the reason he has that attitude toward his father.
我不太确定。
I'm not sure.
他生妈妈的气才对吧，天哪。
Oh, he ought to be angry with his mother for God's sake.
你当时可是
Well you had
我现在还生他妈妈的气呢。
I'm like still angry with his mother.
你那时候经历了一大堆事，我意思是，你儿子出生的时候你多大？
You had all this I mean, how old were you when your son was born?
你都五十多岁了吧？
You're in your mid fifties, right?
后来？
Later?
我觉得我当时是57岁。
I think I was I think I was 57.
我就是这个年纪吗？
Is that what I'm about?
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
这简直太荒唐了。
It's just stupid.
我在想，如果我现在有了个孩子，我的生活会是什么样子，但我真说不准。
I'm trying to imagine what my life would be like now if I had a baby, and I don't know.
我已经完全被这些固有的生活方式定型了。
I'm so set in all of these different structural ways
当然。
Sure.
只是提一下这件事。
Just introducing that.
嗯，这一点是这样的。
Well, that
直到我意识到我们最好现在就做，我才放下顾虑。
was my reluctance up until the time I realized we better do this now.
对。
Right.
从那以后，这成了我一生中做过最棒的事。
And then it became the best thing I ever did in my life.
我知道每个当父母的都会有这种感觉，但我确实也有同样的感受。
I know every parent feels that way, but I certainly shared that.
而且我特别后悔没有早点做。
And then great regret about not having done it earlier.
当你
Well when you
你退休那会儿做了个节目，还讲了那个故事，说你和儿子出去观鸟，遇到一只鸟，你根本认不出来是什么，后来又回来了。
did your retirement show, and you told that whole story about you were out looking at birds with your son, and there was this bird, you couldn't figure out what the bird was, you came back.
你这么讲故事的节奏，我看着当时就心想：天啊，他这是在铺垫退休的事吗？
With the way you set up that story, and I just was watching it when it was happening like, oh my god, is he setting up a retirement?
因为背后明显是经过深思熟虑的。
Because there was like real thought put in behind.
是的。
Yeah.
我跟你说这个，是因为现在这些和儿子相处的小小时刻，对我来说已经比这个节目更重要了。
I'm telling you this story because this is now becoming more important to me than this show, these little moments with my son.
没错。
That's right.
我觉得这个手法挺巧妙的。
And I thought that was a pretty good device.
是的。
Yeah.
我不确定如果真打官司，这个说法能不能站得住脚。
I'm not sure if you took it to court, it would hold up.
但当时它确实起到了作用。
But but at the time, it served a purpose.
这个节目对你来说有多难？
How difficult was that show for you?
我觉得那是你做过的最出色的几期节目之一，因为你知道它有多重的分量，别人根本体会不到。
Because that I thought that was one of the four or five best shows you ever did because you knew the weight of it nobody else did.
是的。
Yes.
你太客气了，咱们又开始了。
You're very kind, and here we go.
不过还是谢谢你。
But thank you.
非常感谢你，比尔。
Thank you very much, Bill.
咱们多聊聊你吧。
Let's talk more about you.
不用了。
No.
我想听你说说这个节目，知道你要演这个的时候，心里是什么感觉？
I wanna I wanna hear about the show, How hard was it to know you were gonna do that?
那时候我生活中还有好多别的事情在发生。
There were so many other things tangential to that moment in my life.
其实一点都不难。
It was not difficult.
我差不多每晚都演，已经持续了三十年了。
And I had been doing it for three decades, more or less every night.
所以我自己内心其实很平静，就觉得：别担心，你还是会继续下去的，不知不觉就继续了。
So the part of me, the internal mechanism felt like, oh, don't worry, you're gonna continue this without knowing it.
就像车还在开的时候，你直接下车一样。
It's like getting out of a car that's still moving.
我就觉得，哦，这种事肯定还会继续下去。
I just assumed, Oh yeah, there'll be more of these.
所以真正的困难，其实是过了一两年，甚至三年才慢慢意识到。
So the real difficulty of it didn't set in for about, I don't know, a year or two, three years.
准确说，是两年。
Well, two years.
因为那时候所有事情都安排好了，我什么都不用操心，要什么有什么。
Because everything had been programmed for me, I was taken care of, and didn't I wanted for nothing.
就是那种感觉吧。
I whatever that is.
我什么都不缺。
I didn't want for anything.
所以我以为，这一切会自然而然地继续下去。
So I didn't I just assumed to keep going.
所以并不觉得难。
So it wasn't difficult.
因为就在你说出来的那一刻，那种感觉真的来了。
Because there's this moment when you actually said it where it felt like Yeah.
有那么两秒钟，我突然意识到：天啊，话已经说出口了。
There was like two seconds where like, oh my god, it's the words have left my mouth.
对。
Yes.
我当时更在意的是把故事讲完，而不是那些话本身意味着什么。
I was more concerned with telling the story than I was with what those words meant.
没错，结果才是关键。
Right, the result.
毕竟这是电视节目，大家都知道电视里总有些做作的成分。
Because it was television and there's a certain artifice about television as we all understand.
所以那根本不是个人情感的事，纯粹是一份工作。
So there was nothing personal about it, it was a piece of business.
对，没错。
Right, yeah.
因为你年轻的时候特别崇拜卡森，我也是，真的特别崇拜。
Because you grew up, well not grew up, but when you were a young adult, idolizing Carson, which Oh I did as yeah.
后来卡森离开了，就彻底消失了。
And Carson left, and he was gone.
我都怀疑他离开《今夜秀》之后有没有在IMDb上留下过任何作品记录。
I don't even know if he has an IMDb credit after The Tonight Show.
他之后就再也没出现过，我们再也没见过他。
He was just, we never Yeah, saw him
有个喜剧演员挺有名的，特别崇拜约翰尼·卡森。
was sorry, he was, there was a fellow who was a a comic of, of some success, and he loved Johnny Carson.
卡森退休后，他住在马里纳德尔雷伊。
And he was out in Marina Del Rey, after the retirement.
那时候约翰尼的船就停在马里纳德尔雷伊的码头上。
And Johnny's boat was anchored in a slip there at Marina Del Rey.
有一天他沿着码头散步，看见约翰尼坐在甲板的椅子上，正拿着报纸看报。
And as he's walking down the dock, he sees Johnny in a chair on the dock reading the newspaper.
现在他疯了，天哪，居然是约翰尼。
Well, now he's crazed because, my God, there's Johnny.
他开始给约翰尼打电话，因为约翰尼退休后，他特别想和他互动。
And he starts calling Johnny because after Johnny has retired, and he wants an interaction with Johnny.
约翰尼察觉到有人在打电话，立刻站起来，收起报纸，走下船舱。
And Johnny recognizes that he's being called, stands up, folds up the newspaper, and goes below decks.
就这样结束了。
That was it.
真的就这样结束了。
That was it.
对啊。
Yeah.
我特别喜欢这个故事。
I just love that.
我身边有无数朋友都遇到过类似的情况，一转身，约翰尼就不见了。
There are a million stories of friends of mine who have had interactions with Johnny where it was like poof, and he's gone.
等等，Johnny 刚才还在，怎么一转眼就不见了？
But wait a minute, Johnny was just here, now he's gone.
他是来个爱尔兰式告别吗？
He's doing the Irish goodbyes?
对，就是这样。
Exactly.
他退休后还上过你的节目，那时候是……
He came on your show after he retired, which was
那会儿特别棒，确实如此。
It was great, yeah.
那应该是他最后的一次亮相了，我觉得。
That was a significant thing, and I think that was the last thing he ever did.
很可能就是，说不定真是。
Might have been, might have been.
对，很可能就是。
Yeah, might have been.
不过也不意外，至少
But also not surprising, at
对他来说是这样。
least in his case.
嗯，他就这样干脆利落地走了，说拜拜，晚安，我不回来了，我觉得这有点让人不安。
Well, the fact that he went away just cold stone, goodbye, good night, I'm not coming back, I found that troubling a little bit.
我没法想象自己会这样，当然我也没法替约翰尼做决定。
And I can't imagine that of happening for myself, not that I can make to Johnny.
但突然之间你停止做某件事了，他真的做到了，但我绝对做不到。
But suddenly you stopped doing something, and he really did, but I could never have done that.
要是我不得不继续做那些事的话。
Had I had to keep doing stuff.
我提起这个是因为我心想你可能也会那样。
That's why I brought that up because part of me thought you were just gonna be like that.
我们再也见不到你了，你会住在某个地方。
We'd never see you again, you'd be living wherever.
我真希望自己能像他那样，但说实话，我就是做不到。
I wish I, I kinda wish I was that guy, but I'm just not.
你这个年纪的一代人里，很多人到现在还和以前一样忙，或者只是稍微减了点量。
There's a lot of people from, I would say your generation, who are still going at either the same rate or a slightly reduced rate.
比如劳伦，他还在演《周六夜现场》，都八十多了。
But like, Lauren is still doing SNL, right, he's over 80 now.
霍华德·斯特恩刚续了三年合同。
Howard Stern just re upped for three years.
拉里·戴维，他之前退出了《抑制热情》，我不确定这剧会不会复播，但他刚宣布要拍新的HBO剧集。
Larry David, who left Curb, I think, I don't know if Curb's gonna come back, but now he announced his HBO show.
我真问过拉里，我以为你已经不干了，怎么又出来了？他说：我能干嘛呢？
And I actually asked Larry, I thought you were done, why are you And he's like, what am I gonna do?
我还是喜欢做这个——这就是他的态度。
I still love And doing that was his attitude.
我小时候，大家不都以为退休年龄是五十五岁，或者六十、六十五左右吗？
No, the real trick when I was a kid, when everybody was a kid, was it 55 was retirement age, or 60, 65, something like that?
这说法太可笑了。
What a joke that is.
因为当你真正达到那个阶段，或者跨过那道门槛时，你会意识到，天哪。
Because you get to that or to the threshold of that, and you realize, holy crap.
我除了这个，一无所有。
I have I have nothing beyond this.
我接下来该怎么办？
What am I gonna do?
所以如果你既高效又快乐，那就继续干下去吧，真的。
So if you're productive and happy, just keep going for God's sakes.
我明白这算不上什么新发现，但这确实是我的亲身经历，而且我觉得这也正是你刚才描述的那种情况。
And I understand this is no great revelation, but it's what I experienced, and I think it's just what you described there.
对，而且很多人常说，那些一直不停歇、持续努力的人，最后往往活得更久。
Yeah, and some people, people a lot of times will say like, the people who keep going and keep going and keep going, they end up living longer anyway.
哦，是吗？
Oh is that right?
那些人呢，一到年纪就说好了，我退休了，就去打高尔夫球。
The people that you know are basically like, alright, I'm done, I'm just gonna play golf.
这种想法才最容易出问题。
Like that's when you get into trouble.
是啊，这招根本行不通，对吧？
Yeah, that doesn't work, does it?
没错。
Yeah.
不行，你得跟人互动，得持续做点事。我就特别喜欢动脑筋。
No, you have to have interaction, you have to be doing things, And you like to think of I love having ideas.
我一辈子都犯难，总没法把那些想法真正落地。
All my life I've had trouble taking them from being ideas to fruition.
你脑子里可以有一千个想法，但只要还是想法，它们的分量都一样。
You can have a billion ideas, And when they're ideas, they're the same size.
当它们还只是想法的时候，每一件都显得轻松好处理。
So when they're that size of an idea, everything is manageable.
但我就是很难把想法推进到‘我们该怎么实现它’这个阶段。
And I have trouble getting it to the stage where, well, how do we do this?
到底要怎么把脑子里的想法，变成实实在在发生的事呢？
How in fact do we change it from something you manage in your head to an actual occurrence?
我特别能理解这一点。
I can identify with that.
别觉得那不行。
Well, don't think that's No.
我挺好的。
I'm good
你擅长想点子，但有时候不太擅长把它们做出来。
at having ideas and sometimes not good at executing them.
你看看自己的生活，我觉得你执行起来根本没什么困难。
You look around your life, and it seems to me like you've had very little trouble executing That
那会有帮助。
would help.
周围有很多优秀的人。
Had a lot of good people around.
你说的那些人55岁就退休，我觉得现在的节奏完全乱了。
Yeah, what you said about people retiring at 55, I feel like the curve is totally screwed up now.
你想啊，五十年前，人们根本没指望能活过六十岁，对吧？
You know, because if you think about the way life was fifty years ago, people didn't even really expect to live past 60, right?
那时候很多事情都不一样了。
All the ways things were different.
我甚至会想到赛马这件事。
I even think about this with horse racing.
有个人说过一个特别好的观点，说以前人们多在乎赛马，因为马是生活的一部分。
Somebody, I saw somebody had this great point about how much people used to care about horse racing, because horses were part of our lives.
是的，对，想起来了。
Yeah, oh that's right.
可到了2020年代，还有多少人养马、关心马呢
And now in the twenty twenties, how many horses, people with horses do
你有印象吗？
you even know?
没错，马曾经是生活中不可或缺的一部分。
That's right, they were integral to existence They really in were.
后来，赛马才变成我们的一种娱乐方式。
The And then the sport that transformed them as recreation for us.
我从来没想过，现在情况居然变成了这样。
Yeah, it never occurred to me that that's It now
现在取而代之的是汽车，人们更关注F1，因为大家对汽车更有共鸣。
has been replaced by cars, and people care more about F one than horse racing because people identify with cars.
我这儿有
I have
我给你带了样东西。
this thing I brought you.
我看了个纪录片，里面提到了你的名字，哎呀。
I saw a documentary with your name on it Uh-oh.
关于游艇摇滚音乐。
About yacht rock music.
是的。
Yeah.
那是我两年前的事了。
That was one my two years ago.
我来跟你讲讲游艇摇滚。
And I'll just tell you about yacht rock.
我去加州的时候，听的就是这种音乐，南加州那边。
This was the music when I went to California, Southern California.
当时是KNXFM电台，放的全是南加州那种舒缓的曲子。
It was KNXFM, and that's all they played, the mellow sounds of Southern California.
那时候放的基本上就是我们现在说的游艇摇滚。
And it pretty much was all what we now know of as yacht rock.
我当时觉得这音乐太轻浮了，根本不当回事，也不觉得它算正经音乐。
And I thought it was trifling and didn't have much interest in it as serious music.
后来我看了那部纪录片，里面对 yacht rock 做了详细分析和讨论，我才意识到，不对劲。
And then I saw how it was kind of dissected and discussed on that documentary, and I realized, no.
等等。
Wait a minute.
这些音乐人其实做得挺不错的。
These guys were really up to something pretty good.
是的。
Yeah.
水准非常高。
High high quality stuff.
我得跟你说说我一直以来的问题。
And I'll tell you what's been a problem for me.
如果你用 Sirius 广播，调到 Yacht Rock 频道，
If you have the Sirius radio and you dial up Yacht Rock
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
他们找了个丑角，或者说是个卡通人物，装出一副傲慢、富有又肤浅的混蛋样子，在那儿享受游艇摇滚。
They have some stooge, some cartoon character pretending he's some snobby, wealthy, superficial asshole enjoying Yacht Rock.
这音乐不是给普通人听的。
And it's not for the people.
它只属于精英阶层。
It's only for the elite.
我特别讨厌那个人，直到看了你的纪录片，我才摆脱了他给我带来的那种游艇摇滚的糟糕印象。
I hate that guy, and he's what poisoned yacht rock for me until I saw your documentary.
哦，谢谢。
Oh, thank you.
然后我再次对它产生了真正的敬意。
And then I once again, I had real respect for it.
太棒了。
It was great.
我很喜欢。
I enjoyed that.
你提到的这一点我特别喜欢，当时那个年代正在发生，可谁都没意识到那是个时代，直到十五年后才回过味来。
You, one of the things I loved about that idea, it it was an era as it was happening, and nobody realized it was an era until like fifteen years later.
是的。
Yeah.
这种时候最难得。
Those are the best ones.
因为我们其实是在讲述一个故事——那些人根本没意识到自己正身处其中。
Because we're actually telling a story of all these people didn't realize they were part of something.
他们在整个摇滚乐的大图景里，觉得自己被边缘化了。
They felt marginalized in the bigger picture of rock.
我刚去加州的时候，就以为那只是当地的文化而已。
I just thought it was California when I got out there.
我听的全是这种音乐，感觉特别舒服。
That's all I listened to, and it was delightful.
后来当它被贴上这个标签，我才明白这个标签是怎么来的，确实如此。
And and then later when it was given this label and I understand how the label was applied Yeah.
这些，都是我从你的纪录片里了解到的。
These these as I learned on your documentary.
但后来那个在SiriusXM上说话带假腔调的蠢货，非说自己出身高贵。
But then this moron on SiriusXM with that bullshit accent about I'm upper crust.
我是东汉普顿的。
I'm East Hampton.
是的。
Yeah.
而这就是吸引我们的地方——我们试试看。
And and this is what appeal We'll try
帮我把房间安排一下。
to get my room.
你能做到吗？
Can you do that?
你办得到的。
You can do that.
你能让别人神不知鬼不觉地消失。
You can make people disappear.
我特别受不了的是， yacht rock 频道放的那些根本不是 yacht rock 的歌。
My big passion is when they play the when they play yacht rock music that's not yacht rock on the yacht rock channel.
是啊。
Oh, yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yeah.
确实。
Yeah.
Bread 根本不算 yacht rock。
Bread is not yacht rock.
别放了，行吗。
Just stop.
Air Supply也不是 yacht rock。
Air supply is not yacht rock.
把他们关掉。
Get them off.
对。
Yeah.
然后你听这个。
And then and then listen to this.
当然了，她肯定会听。
But of course, she'll listen to it.
你就坐在那边。
You're sitting right over there.
制作人压根儿就没进来。
And the producer didn't bother coming in.
我以前在NBC做早间节目的时候，对。
When I had a morning show on NBC Yeah.
我认识一个朋友，他跟欧文·阿佐夫是朋友。
And I knew a friend who was a friend of Irving Azoff.
那时候，欧文·阿佐夫，我觉得在他后来彻底变成音乐圈里那种毫无底线的混蛋之前，顺便说一句，如果我把这事的细节搞错了，我道歉。
And in those days, Irving Azoff, I think before he became a flat out criminal crook in the world of music and by the way, if I got the facts of this wrong, I'm sorry.
他们说，好吧，如果你想要迈克尔·麦克唐纳来写你的主题曲，我们可以搞定他。
They said, Well, we can get Michael McDonald if you want Michael McDonald to write your theme music.
天哪。
Oh my God.
对。
Yeah.
天哪，确实是这样。
Oh my God is right.
我说，你在开玩笑吧。
And I said, You're kidding me.
他们说，没开玩笑。
And they said, Nope.
结果还真让他说中了，Michael McDonald 为我们早间节目写了主题曲。
And sure enough, Michael McDonald wrote the theme music to our morning show.
现在再看他，真是游艇摇滚的代表人物。
And now having seen him as the integral, The king of yacht rock.
游艇摇滚之王。
King of yacht rock.
我现在特别想用一下。
Now I'm eager.
我们这儿有他多年前为我们写的那段音乐，我有个新想法。
We have this piece of music that he wrote for us a thousand years ago, and here's another idea.
我想想办法把它用上。
I would like to use that somehow.
如果你有什么主意，尽管说——对了，他应该还……哦，不对。
So if you have any ideas and by the way, think he must still oh, no.
当然，那东西他早就没版权了。
Of course, he doesn't own it.
欧文·阿佐夫肯定拥有版权。
Irving Azoff must own it.
天哪。
Oh, Jesus.
但至少用在别的地方吧。
But use that on something.
我们本来想请史蒂利·丹参与《游艇摇滚》这个项目，但他们讨厌这个标签。
Yeah, we couldn't get Steely Dan to be in the Yacht Rock thing because they hate the Yacht Rock label.
他们觉得自个儿根本不是游艇摇滚那路人，真的特别反感。
They feel like they weren't Yacht Rock people, like really genuinely hated it.
求求了，咱们换个名字吧。
Let's call it something else for the love of God.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得称它为‘南加州的舒缓之声’更贴切。
I mean, the mellow sounds of Southern California is what I identified it as.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我们最终说动了他，但条件是他要在为《Yacht Rock》做的采访里狠狠吐槽这个标签。
So we finally talked him into it, but only if he got to trash Yacht Rock as the interview he did for The Yacht Rock.
然后他还帮我们搞定了所有音乐的授权。
And then he cleared all the music for it.
是的。
Yeah.
因为他们才是真正奠定了那种南加州风格的人，那种后来被叫作Yacht Rock的声音。
Because really they set up they set up that Southern California sound that became Yacht Rock.
所以我们必须让他们亲自出面来见证。
So we had to have them documenting.
所以后来我看到你名字出现在制作人名单上，知道你是《30 for 30》背后的天才，这份材料就摆到了我桌上。
So anyway, here, when I saw your name on producing things, and I knew you were the genius behind 30 for 30, and and this came across my desk.
吉米·墨菲，美国传奇人物。
Jimmy Murphy, American icon.
你看看这个，能不能做点什么。
Take a look at that and see if you can do anything with that.
吉米·墨菲，美国传奇？
Jimmy Murphy, American icon?
是的。
Yeah.
行吧。
Alright.
我来看看。
I'm gonna look at it.
好。
Okay.
不过你先说说，这个片子的亮点是什么？
Give me the pitch though.
你跟我说说
Give me the
他是唯一一位驾驶美国制造赛车赢得大奖赛的美国人。
Well, he's the only American to have ever won a Grand Prix race in an American built car.
这话说得不对。
That's not true.
其实有两位。
He's one of two.
另一位是丹·格尼。
The the other one was Dan Gurney.
他驾驶自己公司打造的赛车赢得了比利时大奖赛。
He won the Belgian Grand Prix in a car that his company built.
而吉米·墨菲呢，早在上世纪二十年代就驾驶杜森伯格赛车赢得了法国大奖赛，那车可是美国造的。
And this man, Jimmy Murphy, won the French Grand Prix back in the teens, I believe, in a Duesenberg, which was built in The United States.
一共有两位车手在F1体系下赢过比赛，真厉害。
Two two men have won races in the f one system Wow.
都是驾驶美国制造的赛车。
In American built cars.
而且那是在木板赛道时代，赛道都是椭圆形的，而且全是用木头铺成的。
And this is in the era of board tracks, when you would have oval courses, oval tracks, and they were all made of wood.
赛道表面是木头的。
The track surface was wooden.
特别危险，你猜怎么着？因为有木刺。
Highly perilous because of, guess what, splinters.
听起来真有意思。
Would have Interesting.
没错。
Right.
但他确实是个传奇人物，后来还去了法国。
But he was a true icon and, went over to France.
法国人挺讨厌他的，因为他赢得太轻松了，哪怕他的车都快散架了。
And the the French, disliked him because he won so handily even though his car was falling out from under him.
他们甚至想取消他的成绩，心想：你是赢了，但你能在国内也跑成这样吗？
And they were going to disqualify him because, well, sure, he won, but can he drive at home?
他们说，不行。
And they said, well, no.
他虽然在家开不了车，但比赛还是赢了。
He can't drive at home, but he still won the race.
参赛的其他车手反而替他发声，说天哪。
And other other drivers in the event protested on his behalf and said, good lord.
这人明明赢了比赛。
The man won the race.
他能不能在家开车，有谁在乎？
Who cares if he could drive at home?
这倒是法国人的作风。
It's typical of the French.
你也这么觉得？
You you feel that way?
我也是这么想的。
I do.
我也是这么想的。
I do as well.
因为NBA的维克托·兰比尼亚，那个七英尺七英寸的法国球员，马上要上场了，我有点紧张，毕竟我们和法国人打交道的历史一向不太稳定。
Because the NBA, Victor Rambignan, Yamba is gonna take over, seven foot seven French guy, and I'm a little nervous because I we've had a mixed checkered history with the French.
是因为他身高七英尺七吗？
Is it is it because he's seven seven?
还有就是他是法国人。
And French.
谁知道为什么呢？
And who know why?
但他的技术特点，主要是因为身高七英尺七，还是说他身上还有别的特质让他成为顶尖球员？
But his skill set mostly because he's seven seven, or he he contains that other quality that makes him a great player?
七英尺七的身高确实有优势，因为任何想在他面前投篮的人都得面对一个巨大的障碍，但他打球风格还像后卫，这种打法以前从来没人有过。
So being seven seven helps, because he's a huge obstacle anytime you're thinking about But trying to he also plays like a guard, and there's never really been anybody who moves like him.
很奇怪的是，从他十二岁起，整个人生就被塑造成要在NBA成功的模式。
And it's weird, because his whole life has been conditioned to be successful in the NBA from when he was like 12 years old.
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