文班亚马复仇成功，莫雷离队，基尔克·戈德斯伯里与大卫·雅各比带来一场由交易引爆的超长邮件问答

而且对我们这些老球迷来说，这感觉就像一场持续了一年多的权力之争。

And it also for for the old guys like us, it's like, oh, this does feel start to feel like a power struggle that's more than a year long.

感觉这种局面还会持续很久。

It feels like it's gonna be like this for a while.

就像活塞队的低谷期或者尼克斯队的困境，这种例子数不胜数。

Like Pistons Bowl situation or a Knicks Bowls thing where it's just we've had there's there's thousands of those examples.

不过话说回来，如果真这样发展，比尔，我觉得文班亚马和谢泼德现在就是世界上最强的两位球员。

But yeah, if that happens, Bill, like, Wemby and Shay, to me, they're the two best players in the world right now.

这说法很离谱吗？

And is that crazy?

对吧？

Right?

不觉得。

No.

我只是想说，我完全同意。

It's it's I'm just finally give him no.

不对。

No.

不对。

No.

小丑，我觉得他已经过了巅峰期。

Joker, I think he had his run.

我觉得他现在退出竞争了。

I think he's out of it now.

是的。

Yeah.

我们看到的文班亚马的一些防守数据。

Just some of the defensive stats we're seeing from Wemby.

明尼苏达森林狼队在他上场的五场比赛中，投篮命中率只有37%左右，他的防守影响力真的太惊人了。

The fact that the Minnesota Timberwolves are shooting like 37% when he's on the floor in five games is is is his defensive impact is so incredible.

不过话说回来，我觉得这两个人确实是世界上最好的球员，拥有联盟最出色的年轻核心、顶尖的教练和优秀的球队。

But yeah, I think there's two of the best players in the world, best young cores in the league, great coaches, great organizations.

我觉得你这么看确实有道理。

I think you're right to look at it like that.

这正是经典比赛的特征之一。

One of the things of a classic.

还有阵容搭配上的灵活性。

Nally ability too with lineups.

球队能根据场上情况切换不同的打法。

Teams that can throw different looks at you depending on what the situation is.

两队都能打小个阵容，比如上三个后卫，或者让一个射手顶中锋。

Both teams can go smaller, they can play three guards, they can play three guards, a shooter in the center.

当然，也能稍微放大个阵容。

They can go bigger too, to some degree.

雷霆在这方面可能更占优势，就像我们说的，马刺好像还差一个体型更大的球员。

OKC probably can do that a little bit better, because as we said San Antonio feels like they're maybe one bigger guy short.

还有就是针对文班亚马的强硬防守，说起来挺有意思，我之前都没机会聊他肘击纳斯那场比赛。

And then there's this roughing up Wemby thing, which you know it's funny like, I didn't get a chance to talk about the game where he elbowed Nas.

你知道，这是慢动作回放。

Know, it's slow mo.

慢动作会让一切看起来更糟，但确实能看出来他停顿了一下，打量了对方。

Slow mo makes everything look worse, but it did seem like he sized him up for a second.

不过话说回来，那场比赛有十五六次小动作和中等程度的冲撞，累积起来才让他火大到甩出一肘子。

But it was also 15, not to defend Wemby, but it was 15 small to medium things that led to him being mad enough to whip an elbow at somebody.

对。

Yeah.

你能看出来，整个系列赛明尼苏达那边都在打同一个主意：死死缠着他，不断挑衅，不断推搡，就是要把他搞烦，就是得保持身体对抗。

Because you could tell the whole series Minnesota's like, let's keep banging on this guy, let's keep fucking with him, let's keep knocking him down, like just stay physical, stay physical.

我这年纪，还记得当年对付卡里姆的时候也是这么干的。

I'm old enough to remember when this was the strategy against Kareem.

卡里姆那时候一拳打翻了五个人，甚至一拳打碎了肯特·本森的下巴，自己手也骨折了。

Kareem punched like five guys, including he broke his hand punching Kent Benson and breaking Kent Benson's jaw.

但卡里姆，你去YouTube上随便一搜就能看到。

But Kareem, you can go find him on YouTube.

卡里姆当时是直接被打烦了，才会撂倒好几个人。

Kareem knocked down or knocked out multiple guys, because he would just get fed up.

沙克也是个例子，他好像就只对布拉德·米勒动过手，其他几次也是少数。但对沙克，对手总爱拽他肩膀，没法像对付文班亚马那样硬来，更多是像拳击手那样不断贴身缠斗，把他磨得心烦意乱。

Shaq was the other one we had, which Shaq I think only, maybe he tried to punch Brad Miller, there was a few others, but Shaq, they would always pull his shoulders, you couldn't do the same stuff you did to Wemby, it was more like you tried to like kinda wear him down, almost like a boxer when you keep clinching a boxer, and he would get frustrated too.

文班亚马这一辈子都得面对这种事。

Wemby's gonna have to deal with this his whole career.

明尼苏达在试探他，俄克拉荷马也有球员会这么干。

Minnesota's testing him, OKC has guys that will do it too.

所以才需要像卢·多特这样的人。

This is why you have Lou Dort.

我记得在马刺工作的时候，我们就抱怨过，内线球员和后卫的接触判罚标准差太多了，那时候就已经这样了，对。

And and I remember when I worked at the Spurs, we used to complain about the contact allowances are so different for interior players than for guards, even back then Yeah.

就在上个十年。

Last decade.

那时候看比赛真让人无语，比如德雷蒙德用双臂锁住莱昂纳德，或者蒂姆，你只能干看着，行吧，算你狠。

It was it was crazy to watch, like, Draymond double arm bar, Lamarcus, for instance, or Tim, and just like, okay, that's cool.

但我觉得，把后卫突破时的哨子和维克托·文班亚马的情况做个对比，特别有意思。

But I think it's really interesting to compare the whistles of guards who attack versus a Wemby.

在这个联盟里，你根本不敢碰一个正在突破的后卫。

Like, you cannot lay a finger on an attacking guard in this league.

但明尼苏达队做的这些事，说实话，太棒了。

But the things that they're doing and Minnesota, by the way, this is great.

这是一套非常聪明的战术。

This is very intelligent game plan.

一直做，直到裁判吹哨为止。

Do it until they call it.

今晚他们就试了几次。

They did it tonight a couple times.

对。

Yeah.

麦克丹尼尔在那次进攻中把他们推出了界外，裁判居然没吹。

They McDaniel shoved them out of bounds on the on the play, they missed that.

他们确实做到了，他们摆好了架势。

They did they They teed

就像他们之前一直在做的那样，对。

up Nas Yeah.

针对某个他们一直在做的事情。

For something they had been doing.

再说一遍，这可不是酸葡萄心理。

And again, like, this isn't sour grapes.

一直做，直到裁判吹哨为止。

Do it until they call it.

之前他们都没吹，尤其是第四场比赛。

They hadn't been calling, especially in game four.

这让我觉得，不同球员受到的哨子待遇真的差别很大。

But to me, it just really makes me think about how different the whistle is for different kinds of players.

文班亚马被犯规的次数，比裁判吹罚的次数要多得多。

Wemby gets fouled a lot more than than get called.

这在篮球历史上早就存在了，但看到维克托被这样推来搡去，而我们的后卫却总被吹一些小动作，真的让人很恼火。

And that is as old as the history of the game to an extent, but it's really frustrating in a time where our guards are getting so many ticky tack calls to watch Victor get pushed around like that.

是的。

Yeah.

我也不喜欢这样。

I don't like it either.

沙克，你听过任何和他对抗过的球员说的吗？他们都说，打他的时候简直被犯规吃到饱。

Shaq, you talked to Listen to a podcast with anyone who played against Shaq, and they're like, yeah, fouled the shit out of them.

难道要裁判把所有动作都吹吗？

Were they gonna call everything?

他体重三百八十磅。

He's three eighty pounds.

你还能怎么办？

Like what else were you gonna do?

不然他每回都直接扣篮了。

Or else he just would've dunked every time.

我很想看看，周五晚上，他们会不会在WMBA那边搞出一堆动作，再加上明尼苏达的主场氛围。

I'll be interested to see, A, Friday night, I think they dial up all that stuff with WMBA, and you have the Minnesota crowd.

安托万刚休息了三天就上场。

You have Ant on the three days rest.

对。

Yeah.

还有森林狼队，他们现在处处都处在悬崖边上，因为明年情况也不会更好，对吧？

And you have a Timberwolves team, they're on the brink in a lot of different ways because it's not gonna get any better next year, right?

西部这边，掘金肯定会加强，爵士也可能突然冒出来成为强队，湖人会想办法补强，独行侠也会进步，总的来说，西部明年只会更强。

The West is gonna be, Denver will load up in some way, Utah is gonna be out of nowhere a contender, the Lakers are gonna try to you know, improve the team, Dallas is gonna be better, I'd say the West is just gonna be better all the way around.

是啊。

Yeah.

想稳住西部第三的位置，难度会很大。

And it's gonna be hard to cement being the third best team.

要是火箭队也变强了，那怎么办？

What happens if Houston gets better?

你说，要是字母哥被交易到其中一支队，那会怎么样？

You know, you just don't, what happens if Giannis gets traded You to one of those just don't.

快船队拿到了第五顺位。

Clippers are getting the number five pick.

是啊，咱们走着瞧吧。

Yeah, well we'll see.

温布利那场比赛真精彩。

Impressive Wembley game.

我对马刺队的表现简直太惊讶了。

I'm just blown away by the Spurs.

看这些年轻球员这么打，我觉得有点不太合理。

Like to watch young guys play like this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

这种事本来该两年后才出现，现在却像在1.5倍速听播客一样。

This is something that should be two years from now happening, and it's just like, it's like listening to a podcast at 1.5 speed or something.

他们一个个都达标了。

They're hitting these check marks.

哈珀这事真让我想不通。

The Harper thing just breaks my brain.

二十岁的球员根本不可能做到这点，他们不该在季后赛里掌控八九分钟的节奏。

Point cards don't do that at age 20, they're not supposed to have control of playoff games for eight, nine minutes.

对了，趁还没结束，告诉你个消息，德里尔·莫雷今天被解雇了。

So anyway, before we go, Daryl Morey got fired today.

哦，咱们的老朋友啊。

Oh, our friend.

他是费城的总经理，我跟他认识很多年了。我一直尽量保持中立，虽然聊起他来总有点别扭。

The Philadelphia general manager, friend of mine for a long time, I've always tried to stay, you know, always weird to talk about, but I always tried to be neutral.

他要是做了我不认同的事，我就说；做得好，我也夸。

If they did stuff I didn't like, would say it, if they did stuff I liked, I'd say it.

在被尼克斯横扫、最后两场八成观众都是尼克斯球迷之后，球队肯定得找个背锅的，可能的原因不少，比如恩比德的续约。

So you knew there was gonna be a fall guy after a pretty embarrassing sweep to the Knicks, where you had 80% Knicks fans in the last two games, and there's a couple different things you could probably point to, the Embiid extension.

麦凯恩的交易不知怎么成了大家对他不满的导火索，这正好说明萨姆·普雷斯蒂的做法是对的——从不开口评论。

The McCain trade seemed for some reason to be the catalyst for people to really turn on him, and a good example of like, Sam Presti has it right by never saying anything.

达里尔说话有时候反而害了自己，尤其是对麦凯恩那事儿说了‘趁高出手’这样的话。

Daryl talks, you know, sometimes to his own detriment, and made the sell high comment with McCain.

讽刺的是，他们交易麦凯恩，明明是因为球队明确要求他把薪资压到奢侈税以下。

The irony is he traded McCain because they clearly told him to get under the luxury tax, right?

所以其实他们可以做几笔操作，比如交易格里姆斯。

So there's a couple moves you can make, maybe trade Grimes.

我不确定格里姆斯那时候有没有什么市场价值。

I don't know if Grimes had any value.

把格里姆斯交易掉，还不拿回任何合同，这事儿挺难的。

Trade Grimes without taking a contract back, which is hard.

麦凯恩那笔交易，他们换回了选秀权和其他资源，而麦凯恩本身在队里就被两名后卫压着，可偏偏这事成了导火索。

And in the McCain case they got picks and other stuff, and McCain was kind of buried behind two guards, but that became the catalyst.

所以当我回头看他在费城的执教表现，真是有起有落，有几笔神操作，也有不少失误。

So when I look at the job that he did in Philly, which was really up and down, like some really big hits and some misses too.

我想知道的是，现在球队的状态，比他刚来的时候更好了，还是更差了？

I guess my question is, are they in a better or worse place than when he took over?

因为他成功帮球队脱身了本·西蒙斯的麻烦。

Because he was able to get them out of the Ben Simmons thing.

他积极运作交易，从勇士队换回了几份相当不错的选秀权。

He was able to trade hard in and get some pretty decent picks from the Quippers back.

我记得其中有一个是2028或2029年不受保护的。

I mean I think one of them's unprotected in '28 or '29.

维杰·埃德科姆这笔操作他们搞定了，现在他们有了马克斯和埃德科姆作为核心班底。所以在我看来，这 guy 并没有把球队搞砸，但说实话，我一点都不意外。

Vijay Edgecombe, they pulled that off, or they now have Maxi and Edgecombe as like the centerpiece for what So they're to me this isn't like, oh my god, this guy fucked our team up, but at the same time I wasn't surprised at all.

那我为什么一点都不意外呢？

So why wasn't I surprised?

对。

Yeah.

我觉得你最差的合同续约，我们待会儿再聊，这才是最主要的原因。

I think your worst contracts draft, which we'll talk about a little bit later, is is the number one reason.

你想想现在联盟里最差的两份合同，都是达里尔经手签下的。

When you look at what you guys had determined, the one and two worst contracts in the entire association right now, Daryl did those deals.

他跟保罗·乔治也这么干过，跟乔尔·恩比德也一样。

He did it with Paul George, and he did it with Joel Embiid.

他们有什么共同点？

And what do they have in common?

这些人都已经过了巅峰期了。

These are guys on the wrong side of their prime.

对。

Yeah.

而在现在的第二条奢侈税门槛时代，他依然坚持给他们天价合同。

And he is committed to paying them ridiculous amounts of money in this second apron era.

所以问题就在这儿。

So that's what's that's what's it.

如果他们只有一份这样的合同，你可能会觉得，天啊，这反而是个重建的好机会。

If they only had one of those deals, you'd be like, oh my god, they have a really good team building opportunity here to get over.

但他们现在被绑住了。

But they're handcuffed.

我的意思是，就算保罗·乔治或者乔尔·恩比德能保持健康，但咱们都看得够久了，知道这根本不可能发生。

I mean, if Paul George is going to be healthy, or Joel Embiid is going to be healthy, but you and I have seen this for too long to know that's just not gonna happen.

所以归根结底，问题就在这儿。

So that's ultimately what it is.

我不觉得这是一次丢脸的解雇。

I don't think it's like a disgraceful firing.

我只是觉得，他们确实需要换个新气象了。

I just think this thing, they needed to refresh it.

我觉得达里尔迟早能找到下一份工作。

I think Daryl will get another job.

对。

Yeah.

但如果非得找个主要原因，比尔，我会说，就是给保罗·乔治和乔尔·恩比德的这两份合同，直接把事情搞砸了。

But ultimately, if I had to hang it on something, Bill, I would say those two contracts to Paul George and Joel Embiid, that's what got it done.

我还要再加上一个。

I would add a third one.

这事儿本来就会引发争议，但我一直开玩笑说，达里尔做任何决定都完全不带感情，永远只看数据分析怎么选。

And this would have been controversial, but I also, I always used to joke that Daryl has no emotion in any of this stuff, like he's just gonna do what the analytic move is at all times.

就像当年那个麦凯恩交易一样。

Like that's the McCain trade.

那笔交易里根本没掺杂任何感情因素。

Was no emotion tied to that trade.

要是你和我当他的顾问，他准备做这笔交易时，我们肯定得说：老兄，费城球迷可特别喜欢这 guy。

Like if you and I were his conciliaries, and he was about to make that trade, we would say, yo man, Philly fans really like this guy.

是的。

Yeah.

结果你真这么干了，他去了俄城还打得风生水起，费城球迷肯定炸锅——毕竟这是费城。

And if you do this, and he goes and plays well in OKC, they're gonna be fucking pissed, and this is Philadelphia.

我不知道，难道就不能想别的法子避开奢侈税吗？

I don't know, figure out another way to get into the luxury tax, right?

但他就是搞数据分析的，这人做事就这风格，一头扎进去不回头。

But he's analytics, that's just the way he plows ahead.

我当时就说过，应该在尼克斯签下唐斯之前把恩比德交易出去，那时候尼克斯明显在拼命抢人，而且他们和恩比德的关系也很深。

I said this at the time, the move was to trade Embiid when, before the Knicks got towns, when the Knicks were clearly desperately trying to, know, that all these picks that made an impact, and they had a real relationship with Embiid.

他们有沃德·韦斯特，还有莱昂·罗斯，这两个人都是恩比德那边的核心人物。

They had World Wide West and they had Leon Rose who were like, those are Embiid's guys.

莱昂·罗斯，那可是恩比德的经纪人。

Leon Rose, that was his agency.

我觉得在所有人里，尼克斯最看重他，而那时恩比德刚打完两个赛季，出场次数创了个人新高，分别是66场和63场。

I think out of anyone they valued him the most, and you just had Embiid coming off these two seasons where he played the most games he'd ever played, it was sixty six and sixty three.

他的价值当时达到了顶峰。

His stock was never gonna be higher.

中锋，尤其是这种体型的球员，通常都会开始走下坡路。

The history of centers and guys that size is usually gonna start doing this.

我觉得他本可以从费城换来一大笔回报。

And I just think he could have gotten a fucking mother load from Philly.

不过，球迷们会满意这个交易吗？

Now would the fans have been happy about it?

我不确定。

I don't know.

是的。

Yeah.

但回头来看，很难说，不过当时那个决定其实就是趁高抛售——不是卖贾里德·麦凯恩，而是趁现在把乔尔·恩比德出手。

But I think in retrospect, hard to say, but in retrospect the move is like, I am selling high, not on Jared McCain, but on Joel Embiid right now.

对。

Yeah.

这话说得没错。

That's probably right.

关于麦凯恩这事，我还想补充一点。

And one more thing on the McCain thing.

我总爱笑一件事，要是萨姆·普雷斯蒂特别想要你队里的某个球员。

I always like to laugh at, like, if if Sam Presti is very interested in one of your guys.

是的。

Yeah.

挂了吧。

Hang up.

对。

Yeah.

回头想想，我到底在干嘛？我们这是在做什么？

Go back and be like, oh, what what what am I what are we doing?

这可是我们最好的球员，之类的。

Like, that's our best player or whatever.

没错。

Right.

别跟这人做交易。

Don't trade with that guy.

这可是场大博弈。

Huge rate fight.

当年帕特·莱利或RC·布福德巅峰时期打电话谈交易时，别人都不敢跟他们谈，因为大家都特别尊重他们的篮球眼光。

When Pat Riley was in his prime or RC Buford in his absolute prime and they were on the phone, people would be afraid to deal with them because they they had such respect for these guys' basketball opinions.

他们干嘛非得要这个人？

What do you why would they want that guy?

对，没错。

Oh, yeah.

别说了，比尔，挂电话吧。

Hang up the phone, Bill.

酿酒人队也是这样。

The Brewers are like this too.

红袜队已经连续两年跟他做交易了。

The Red Sox have traded for him two years in a row

跟酿酒人队。

with the Brewers.

他们队里有个像萨姆·普雷斯特i的人，每次都被坑了。

They basically have Sam Presti in the baseball, and got fleeced each time.

所以对达里尔来说，这已经是他二十年的经历了，对吧？

Yeah, so for Daryl, this is a twenty year run for him, right?

他六六年被火箭队聘任，七七年正式接手球队，带领火箭队打出了整个巅峰期。

He got hired by the Rockets in 'six, took over the team in 'seven, had the whole Rockets run.

离冠军只差一点，运气不太好，尤其是克里斯·保罗受伤，真是让人惋惜。

Came really close, had some bad luck, especially Chris Paul getting hurt is a great injury what if.

是的。

Yeah.

每年我们都会想如果没受伤会怎样，但这次特别可惜，因为第七场是在主场，他们和勇士队打得难分难解。

We have injury what ifs every year, that's a really good one, because they had game seven at home, they were toe to toe with the Warriors.

那时候勇士队刚打完15到18年的连续赛季，体能和状态都下滑了。

The Warriors were a little run down at that point from fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen.

他们的团队配合也开始出问题，结果第七场关键三分球一个都没进。

They were vulnerable, their team chemistry was going a little sideways, and then they missed all those threes in game seven.

那是他离总冠军最近的一次。

That was the closest he got there.

而在费城，压根没觉得那支队伍真能打进总决赛。

And in Philly, never really felt like that team was ever gonna actually make the finals.

我从来没觉得他们能做到。

I never felt like they were.

对。

Yeah.

感觉他慢慢放下了莫雷那套打法。

It felt like he sort of walked away from that Morey ball.

我要把数据分析的边界推得比谁都远。

I'm gonna push the edge of the calculator over further than anybody else.

但到了费城，莫雷的做法变得更传统了，就是签下超级巨星，甚至有点背离了那些数据分析的理念，比如——嘿，你有没有看过球员的年龄曲线？

And it felt like this this Philly era Morey was more conventional, just signing the superstars and and maybe even antithetical to some of the analytics movements, including like, hey, dude, have you ever seen an aging curve?

别给三十多岁的球员开高价合同。

Like, don't overpay guys in their thirties.

这种事我们不该做。

That's that's not something we should be doing.

所以，费城那边根本没真正形成达里尔的文化。

So, know, it never it never really felt like a Daryl culture had set set up in Philadelphia.

你是在提那些哈登和德安东尼在休斯顿打造的传奇球队吧，比尔，它们确实彻底改变了这项运动。

Like, you're you're alluding to these legendary teams with Harden and Dantoni in Houston that that sort of changed the sport, Bill, forever.

人们常说，斯蒂芬，我也同意，但真正改变联盟的，是斯蒂芬的投篮，还有迈克和达里尔围绕三分球构建的整支队伍。

And people say, Steph, and I agree with that, but that that it was Steph shooting him, and it was Mike and and Daryl building that whole team around the three point shot that changed this league forever.

而且，花钱这事也不是小事，对吧？

Also, the spending isn't a small thing either, right?

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，尼克斯队现在就在大手笔投入。

You know, the Knicks are spending right now.

他们能拥有这么强的阵容，其中一个原因就是他们非常积极地引援。

That's one of the reasons they have a really good team, they've been aggressive.

勇士队在整个巅峰时期也砸了巨资，就为了组建一支出色的球队。

Golden State during the whole run spent a ton of money to try to put together good teams.

凯尔特人更是出名地花钱如流水，这个赛季账单到期时，他们不得不做一连串交易，否则就得交三亿美元的奢侈税。

The Celtics famously spent so much money that the dinner check came this season, they had to make all these trades, or else they would have had to pay 300,000,000 in luxury tax.

费城队可没这么干过。

Philly's not done that.

他们没怎么花钱，费城是这样，说实话，丹佛也没怎么花。

They have not spent Philly and, honestly, Philly and I don't think Denver really has either.

这两支球队拥有这十年里最顶尖的球员之一，但一直都很理性地控制开支。

They've been two teams that had, you know, two of the best players of this decade, but always were pretty responsible with how they spent.

我不确定这是否会影响费城队，但确实影响了像麦凯恩交易这样的小事。

I don't know if that would've made a difference with Philly, but it did make a difference with little stuff like the McCain trade.

我最早看球是在八十年代的费城体育馆，看巴克利和朱利叶斯·欧文比赛。

My last thing is my first games were at the Spectrum in Philly in the eighties with Barkley and Doctor.

他们俩的生涯有过重叠。

J when they they overlapped.

我特别惊讶，费城的球馆里居然有那么多尼克斯球迷。

And I was really stunned by the the number of Knicks fans in this in the building in Philadelphia.

我不禁想，这会不会也起了作用。

And and I wonder if that played into it.

你能想象这种事在波士顿发生吗？不可能。

I wonder could you imagine that ever happening in Boston No.

那是麦迪逊广场花园吧？

It's Madison Square Garden?

真是有点疯狂。

It was kinda crazy.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得费城人的骨子里没这么软。

Philly, I think, has a stronger backbone than that.

你怎么看？

What are your thoughts?

要是你回看德雷克斯勒那个年代，

I never If you go back to the Doctor.

甚至再往前，你上YouTube看看他们主场的比赛，观众也没多少。

J era, and even go back, you can go back on YouTube, watch some of their home games, Not like huge crowds.

我从小就觉得，他们更像是费城飞人队的球迷，别的都不算。

I always thought, when I was growing up, I always felt like they were a Flyer City more than anything.

那支队伍就是他们的心头好，还有费城费城人队也是。

Like that was like their team, and Phillies obviously.

老鹰队排第三，而76人队我一直觉得排第四，哪怕他们有张伯伦。

The Eagles, and I always felt like the Sixers were fourth, even though they had Doctor.

虽然那段时间他们打得特别精彩。

J for for this great run.

到了八十年代，感觉开始有点变了，尤其是他们拿了冠军之后。

Felt like it started to flip a little bit in the eighty's, especially after they won the title.

到了九十年代，他们状态很差，还把巴克利给交易走了。

And then when we got to the ninety's, you know, they had a really bad run there, they trade Barkley.

我觉得费城本质上是个老鹰队的城市，76人队到底有没有真正火过，我真说不准。

And I just think that's an Eagles town first, and you know, I don't know if the Philadelphia 76ers ever got there.

那个‘过程’真是挺离谱的。

The process was pretty weird, man.

是的。

Yeah.

如果我们深入探讨一下，怎么会在主场季后赛比赛中，有80%的球迷支持尼克斯队？

Like if we're gonna do like a deep dive on, how do you end up with 80% Knicks fans at a home playoff game?

你可能得回头看看，这个重建计划到底带来了什么，因为你白白浪费了四年时间，错过了培养年轻球迷的机会——他们本来在犹豫该支持哪支球队，是76人吗？

Maybe you gotta look backwards at what did the process really accomplish, because you're losing four years of fans you have a chance, young fans trying to decide on a team that's like, should I like the Sixers?

他们可是故意每年都输球啊。

Well they intentionally lose every year.

我还不如去支持金州勇士队和斯蒂芬·库里呢。

I'm gonna like the Golden State Warriors and Steph Curry instead.

所以我也说不准。

So I don't know.

肯定有无数个原因，但我一直觉得，76人队从来就不是费城的头号球队。

I'm sure there's a million different reasons for it, but I always felt like they were not, like, never really the main team in Philadelphia.

我觉得这么说应该没什么问题。

I think that's safe to say.

是的。

Yeah.

可能就是这样。

Maybe that's what it is.

我看到这种情况还挺惊讶的，你看明尼苏达或者今晚圣安东尼奥的现场，观众席简直燃爆了。

I was just surprised to see that, again, like, you watch these environments in Minnesota or in San Antonio tonight, and it's like, man, these these crowds are electric.

在这些球馆里，客场球队的看台根本不可能只坐满三分之一。

There's no way you're getting, you know, 30% of the lower bowl for the visiting team in these arenas.

但费城明明是个挺热血的体育城市。

But in Philadelphia, which I think is a pretty good sports town.

这真是有点不可思议。

It's just crazy.

是的。

Yeah.

这确实挺奇怪的。

It's a weird one.

不过咱们还是看看德里尔吧，今年肯定不容易，我不清楚现在有多少职位空缺，但他肯定会在某个地方活跃着，我觉得他根本不可能当个出色的

Well, we'll see what Daryl I'm sure it's gonna be tough this year, because I don't know how many jobs are available, but I'm sure he'll be lurking in some way, and I don't see him ever could be a great

播客主持人。

podcast host.

他其实挺适合当播客主持人的，谁知道呢？

He could be a great podcast host, who knows?

作为他的朋友，我反而建议他别干这行，我觉得这只会让他惹更多麻烦。

So as his friend, I would almost recommend he didn't do that, because I feel like that would get him into even more trouble.

但他确实会表现得很出色，因为他从来不会自我审查。

But he would be amazing, because he doesn't always have the self edit button.

对，他压根儿没什么过滤机制。

No, he doesn't have the filter.

没错。

No.

他想到什么就说什么，所以我不确定该不该让他做播客，不过算了。

He'll just So I don't know if I'd want him to have a podcast, but anyway.

费城的时代就这样结束了，咱们走着瞧吧。待会儿在邮件环节我们会聊到，恩比德到底还有没有交易价值。

And so end of an era with Philly, we'll see, we talk later in the mail bag about is there, does Embiid even have trade value?

这种局面你该怎么处理呢？

How do you even handle that situation?

接下来还有很多精彩内容。

A whole bunch of good stuff coming.

接下来是我和柯克、戴夫·雅各比一起做的超长邮件问答环节。

Me, Kirk, Dave Jacoby doing a big ass mailbag next.

本节目由FanDuel赞助播出。

Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by FanDuel.

NBA季后赛已经全面开打。

We are in full swing with the NBA playoffs.

每场比赛、每一次进攻、每一个转折、每一次变向，全都至关重要。

Every game, every possession, every swing, every zag, all of it matters.

喂。

Hey.

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我打算在推特上对克利夫兰对底特律这场比赛下个注。

I'm gonna take a swing on Twitter in the Cleveland Detroit game.

上次我这么干是周六，当时我押了骑士队，还有米切尔的得分超分，全中了。

The last time I did it was Saturday, which I hit with with the Cavs and with bunch of Mitchell point overs.

我下了好几注。

I had a bunch of different bets.

除了36分以上的那一条，其他的全赢了。

I think all of them won except for the 36 points and up.

这场比赛五，我还要再押一注。

I am gonna do another one for game five.

我倾向于支持活塞队主场作战，因为这段时间他们主场确实每场都赢了，表现太稳了。

Leaning toward taking the Pistons at home just because I think this has really proven itself as a home team wins every game series.

只要这个趋势还在，我就继续看好活塞队。

And until that doesn't happen, I like the Pistons.

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我觉得杜兰在第五场比赛里肯定会迎来一波反弹。

I like I like Durin to have a comeback game in game five.

说不定我会把这一点也加进我的投注里。

Maybe that'll be in there.

去 fanduel.com/bs 注册开始吧。

Head to fanduel.com/bs to get started.

FanDuel，玩出你的风格。

FanDuel, play your game.

仅限21岁以上地区，华盛顿特区、肯塔基州和怀俄明州年龄要求为18岁，具体限制条件请见官网。

21 plus select states are 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming restrictions apply.

详情请见 sportsfanduel.com，或拨打 1-800-GAMBLER、(888) 789-7777，或访问 ccpg.org/chat 了解康涅狄格州的相关信息。

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Uber Eats 让临时送礼变得轻松，不管是母亲节、父亲节、毕业季，还是别的什么场合，你一眨眼，礼物就到了。

Uber Eats makes last minute gifting easy, whether it's Mother's Day, Father's Day, graduation, whatever, you blink, they're here.

就算你临时才想起来，也不代表礼物就得显得仓促。

But just because it snuck up on you, doesn't mean your gift has to feel like it.

Uber Eats 的礼品中心备有各种选择：鲜花、香水、香槟，甚至对方最爱的外卖餐点。

The Uber Eats gift hub has something for everyone, flowers, perfume, champagne, even their favorite takeout order.

最快二十五分钟就能送达，哪怕你五分钟前才想起来。

It show up as little as twenty five minutes, even if you just remembered five minutes ago.

最棒的是，你还能附上一段视频留言和手写卡片，让对方觉得你早就精心准备好了。

The best part, you can add a video message and a personal note, so it actually feels like you planned it all along.

现在就上 Uber Eats 下单吧。

Order on Uber Eats today.

购买者须年满二十一岁，商品 availability 因地区而异，详情请见 App。

Must be 21 or older to purchase Product availability varies per Regency app for details.

好了，我们现在倒回过去。

Alright, we are moving back in time.

这是读者来信环节。

It's mail bag.

我是柯克·戈德斯伯里，还有戴夫·雅各比，我们正在太平洋时间上午晚些时候录这期节目。

Me, Kirk Goldsberry, Dave Jacoby, we are recording this late morning Pacific time.

所以在接下来八个小时里，如果森林狼对马刺的比赛有什么新动态，我们可不负责。

So if anything happens in the next eight hours before the Timberwolves Spurs game, we're not going to apologize.

2014年总决赛时，我们仨都在德克萨斯州奥斯汀，那会儿马刺和蒂姆·邓肯正拼尽最后一口气，想拿下最后一个冠军。

We were all together in the 2014 finals in Austin, Texas when the Spurs, Tim Duncan, it was the last gasp of the Duncan era, trying to pull off one last title.

当时我们正吃着烧烤。

We were eating barbecue.

拍了不少素材。

We shot all kinds of stuff.

还出去逛了逛。

We went out.

那感觉真棒。

It was great.

雅各比，你有没有想过马刺队会再次变得这么重要？

Jacoby, did you ever think the Spurs would be this relevant again?

我们那时候就觉得，这大概是他们最后的辉煌了。

It felt like the last hurrah for them when we were there.

我确实没想到他们会再这么强势，但这也太符合马刺的风格了，你知道吧？

It did think they would be this relevant again because it's just very Spursian of them to to do this, you know?

马刺队历史上只有寥寥几年特别低迷，而且那几年真的挺暗淡的。

Like, there's only been a few dark Spurs years, and they're dark.

但圣安东尼奥的阳光终究还是更多一些。

But, you know, a lot of a lot of sunlight in San Antonio.

我记得当时我们还和普林斯·贾勒恩在一起，你记得吗？

I believe we also had Prince Jalene with us, if you remember correctly.

我们确实有普林斯·贾勒恩在。

We had Prince Jalene.

我们重新聚齐了那支Fab Five。

We reunited some of the Fab Five.

杰克奥顶替了克里斯·韦伯的位置，加入了Fab Five。

Jacko joined the Fab Five in the Chris Weber spot.

那段经历特别感人。

It was emotional stuff.

柯克，你觉得马刺队怎么样？我知道他们连续三年抽中了状元、探花和榜眼，这运气确实不错，但说实话，这也不全靠运气——连续三个顶级签，他们现在真的回来了。

Kirk, did you think the Spurs I mean, granted they nailed the lottery three years in a row with three pretty obvious picks that I don't think they should get that much credit for, but three top four picks in a row, now they're back.

不过你有没有担心过，他们以后会变成像新奥尔良那样的小市场球队，一蹶不振三十年？

But were you worried that they were just gonna become small market New Orleans for the next thirty years?

我没觉得会到那一步。

I wouldn't go that far.

我知道他们迟早会重回巅峰，你说得一点没错。

I knew they would be back, but you're exactly right.

连续三年拿到第一、第四和第二顺位，要是换作其他队，未必能把握住，但马刺能抓住这样的机会，确实值得尊重。

Going one, four, and two in consecutive drafts, if the Spurs get that opportunity, they deserve the respect here.

他们本来就有这个权利。

They were gonna get that right.

而且他们不仅选对了，这三个顺位——第一、第四、第二，尤其是文班亚马，简直太棒了。

And not only did they get those picks right, those were great one four and two, obviously, Wemby.

是的。

Yeah.

卡斯特尔这个第四顺位选得真好。

Castle's a great four pick.

还有，迪伦·哈珀这个第二顺位也选得特别出色。

And man, Dylan Harper is a great two pick.

所以我觉得，更大的故事其实是，马刺队这一连串的第一、第四、第二顺位，直接让他们重新回到争冠行列，这正是我们后来修改乐透规则的重要原因之一。

So, dude, I think that the bigger story is like, I think that one four two run the Spurs just got to get them back to relevance is one of the big reasons we have new lottery rules.

不过也得说，有三支球队放弃了卡斯特尔，这其实也帮了他们大忙。

Well, they were helped out that three teams passed on Castle was the other thing that really helped them.

我当时觉得，他应该排第一才对。

I thought Thank it you, should go first.

我们收到了一堆邮件问答。

Have a bunch of mailbag emails for us.

咱们先聊抽奖的事，毕竟刚结束不久。

We're gonna start with the lottery, because it just happened.

你们有没有看直播？抽奖仪式刚上演完。

I don't know if you guys saw it, but the lottery happened.

你有没有看现场直播？

Watch someone live.

我看了。

I did.

迈克说，在周一的播客里，你们准确指出了那半小时抽奖直播有多别扭。

Mike says, On Monday's pod, you correctly pointed out how awkward and weird the half hour lottery telecast is.

那球队代表上镜头时的表现呢？不觉得挺尴尬的吗？

What about how lame the team representatives are when they're on camera?

他们就坐在那儿，面无表情。

They just sit there stony faced.

他们连看起来高兴的样子都装不出来，结果明明很好。

They barely even seem happy, the results are good.

我今年49岁，从小就是奇才队的铁杆球迷。

I am a 49 year old lifelong Wizards Bullets fan.

我这辈子支持的球队，自打我两岁以后就没赢过50场球。

I've been rooting for a team that has not won 50 games since I was two.

抽签的时候，我和我儿子紧张得都想吐，看到我们进了前四，激动得跳起来，最后居然中了，我们喊得太大声，连狗都吓跑了。

My son and I felt like we were gonna throw up during the lottery, we got in the top four bouncing up and down, we won, we screamed so loud, our dog left the room.

要不别让高管或者前球员坐那儿，干脆请些超级球迷来？

What if instead of putting executives or former players in these seats, we get super fans?

那不是更有趣吗？

Wouldn't that be more entertaining?

雅各比，你觉得该请谁来坐那个位置？

Jacoby, who would you put in the seats as representatives?

这还用想吗？

This is easy.

你找对人了，毕竟我现在是以制作人的身份在说话。

You've come to the right place as a, know, putting my producer hat on here.

你就得把它当成一档真人秀来处理。

You you treat it like a reality television show.

选人就得挑最适合上镜的，因为那些高管和前球员，早就见惯了大场面。

So you cast the people that are best for television because the executives and the ex players, they've all been there, done that.

就像你坐在球场的媒体席上，本来就不该大喊大叫，或者喝啤酒。

They're sort of like when you sit in the press seats at the game, you're not supposed to, like, cheer or, like, drink beer.

太无聊了。

It's boring.

我要搞就搞全套真人秀风格，找最疯、最吵闹的球迷。

Like, I'm going full reality television style, and we're getting the craziest, most boisterous fans.

球队一有好球或者倒霉事，他们能直接疯掉。

They're gonna lose their minds when their team does something good or bad happens to them.

我们选人就像在选《美国偶像》第三季那样。

Like, we're auditioning it like it's like American Idol season three.

你觉得呢，柯克？

You agree with that, Kirk?

对，老兄。

Yeah, dude.

那一刻的分量，电视转播根本没法体现出来。

The gravity of that moment, the telecast just doesn't match it.

节奏太快了。

The cadence happens too fast.

天哪。

It's like, oh my god.

刚才是怎么回事？

What just what just happened?

真的可能瞬间就炸了。

Like, total total craziness can happen.

就像你之前在另一个播客里说的，中间能有十五分钟啥事都没有。

And they like you said, on the other podcast, like, there's fifteen minutes of nothing.

但他们就是没有。

And then they they don't.

我不是希望每次有人被淘汰时，电视里都来个漫长的沉默，像《美国偶像》那样。

And it's not like I want the American Idol pregnant pause after pregnant pause when somebody gets voted out or whatever.

但老兄，他们就是没有。

But dude, they don't.

播出时完全没体现出那一刻的分量。

The gravity of the moment isn't respected on the on the broadcast.

我觉得让乔·豪斯带着六瓶啤酒上场，让他随便说，那肯定会很有趣。

And I I do think it would be fun to put Joe House and have Joe House with the six pack of beer and just let him get going.

还该让彩纸从天而降，看看会发生什么。

And let's let's see what happens when and they should have confetti fall.

但总的来说，比尔，我的观点就是这个，你周日说对了，这些时刻的分量极其重大。

But ultimately, my thesis is this, Bill, and you hit it on Sunday, the gravity of these moments is is monumental.

我们刚聊了马刺队，可电视转播完全没体现出这些时刻对球迷来说有多重要、多激动人心。

We just talked about the Spurs, and the broadcast doesn't respect how important this is or how electrifying it is for these fan bases.

是的，他们明显很用心，就是要让我们看到，每个即将被选中的球员背后都有父母，而且他们都特别激动地到场了。

Yeah, they seem very determined just to show us that everybody who's about to be picked has a parent, and they're all excited to be there.

不管去哪儿，我们做的采访都千篇一律，糟糕透顶，然后匆匆见上那些代表一面。

Wherever I go, we've got like just the most generic terrible interviews possible, and then we meet all the representatives.

我不明白为什么，我们根本没正经采访过他们，就只是瞥一眼，完全没任何联系。

I don't know why, it's not like we interview any of them, we just kind of see them for a second, I had no connection with them.

Conk和Nipple都在想：我为啥在这儿？

Conk and Nipple's like, why am I here?

我之前想过，Jacoby的情况无非就三种可能。

I had, so Jacoby, had three ways this could go.

还有粉丝这块，Mike也提到了，你有铁杆粉丝，搞个比赛，直接让粉丝来投票。

And the fan thing, which Mike mentioned as well, so you have super fans, you have a contest, you basically cast the fan.

你甚至可以做成一档真人秀，比如：我们是怎么选中这位奇才队球迷的。

You could even turn that into some sort of reality show where it's like, here's how we landed on the Wizards fan.

问题是，我们前七个月一直在讨论谁会抽到状元、谁在故意摆烂，结果这抽奖节目十分钟就草草收场，简直像联盟在遛弯儿认错。

Because the thing is, we're all talking about who's gonna win the lottery and tanking and all this shit for seven months, and then we just kind of rip through this lottery show in ten minutes, like it's like a walk of shame for the league.

他们就是想蒙混过关。

They're just trying to get away with it.

所以是名人？抱歉，应该是赢得比赛的普通球迷，然后才是那种狂热的名人粉丝，作为第二种模式。

So celebrity, I'm sorry, actual fans who won a contest, then celebrity super fans as the second model.

就像你有乔·豪斯那样的人。

Where you do have like your Joe House.

比如去亚特兰大老鹰队，随便从亚特兰大的音乐圈或Gucci圈里挑个人，曼恩就可以代表老鹰队出场。

You have, you know, you go the Atlanta Hawks, like pick anybody from the Atlanta music Gucci scene, Mane could just be there as the Hawks representative.

你一个个走过去，然后搞个一小时的节目，挨个采访每位代表。

You just go through, and then it's like we have an hour show, and we talk to each representative.

我第三个想法来了，回归最根本的，我觉得这才是最好的方案。

Here's my third idea, and I'm going back to the basics, and I think this is actually the best idea.

我觉得总经理应该亲自到场当代表。

I think the GM should have to be there as the reps.

这应该是他们工作的一部分，我之所以这么说，是因为你看凯文·普里查德，他做的交易一直忽好忽坏，现在 chances 五五开，要么进前四，要么选秀权被快船拿走。

I think they should be part of the job, and the reason I mention this is you have Kevin Pritchard there, who's just done this all time hit or miss trade, where now it's a fiftyfifty chance to either be in the top four, or you lose the pick to the Clippers.

还有什么比这更有戏剧性？

What's better drama than that?

就像那个经典画面，杰里·韦斯特和灰熊队的勒布朗选秀，对吧？

Like the famous clip was Jerry West with the Grizzlies Lebron one, right?

要是抽到第一顺位，他就得到勒布朗。

It's like, if he gets the first pick, he gets Lebron.

第二顺位，那就什么都没有。

Second pick, nothing.

结果灰熊队抽到第二，镜头直接切到他，那表情简直像CT扫描仪里脑袋要炸开的人。

It comes up, Grizzlies are second, and it just cuts to him, and it looks like he's the guy in scanners whose head's about to explode.

所以雅各比，为什么不能就让总经理们上呢？

So Jacoby, why can't it just be the GMs?

听好了，既然你当了总经理，就得亲自上选秀现场，代表球队，让我们看看你的真实反应，就这么定了。

Like, hey guys, if you're gonna be a GM of a team, you're at the fucking ladder, and you're gonna be the representative, and we get to see your reactions, and this is just how it's gonna go.

而且让总经理和超级粉丝并排坐在一起。

And you have the GMs and the super fans sit side by side.

就像

Like

这种组合。

A this combo.

简直像一个迷你超级

Almost like a A baby super

粉丝能转过头看看照片，说：你看看你干了什么。

fan can just like turn his head and look at picture and be like, look at what you've done.

什么？

What?

是的，没错。

Did Yeah.

而且我觉得柯克也说到点子上了。

And it just I think Kirk hit something too.

这种节奏得来个彻底的转变。

It's like, the rhythm of it needs to dramatically change.

是的。

Yeah.

咱们每出现一次新线索，就停下来讨论一下吧。

Because like, let's let's every reveal, let's discuss.

你知道吗

You know what

我的意思是？

I mean?

没错。

That's right.

我是说，咱们得每回都聊聊这些新线索，因为有时候我脑子跟不上，没法立刻想明白那个团队身处那个区域到底意味着什么。

Like, let's discuss every reveal because it does like, sometimes my brain isn't fast enough to like figure out all of the imaginations of what it means that that team is in that zone.

主持人总是会漏掉一个。

And the host always misses one.

我觉得马利卡就错过了一个瞬间——布鲁克林队丢了选秀权，才短短五秒钟。

I think Malika missed in the moment that Brooklyn lost their pick for like five seconds.

对了，还记得去年尼甘迪和76人队的选秀签吗？

Well, Nagandhi, remember Nagandhi last year with the Sixers pick?

没错，他被坑得够惨的。

Right, he was completely screwed.

这正好引出夏洛茨维尔的亚历克斯提出的下一个问题。

Well, leads to the next question from Alex in Charlottesville.

他说，既然新的乐透系统增加了不确定性，你们会怎么重新设计这半小时的直播？

He said, now that we're gonna have this new lottery system with the increased volatility, how would you redesign the thirty minute telecast?

我们该怎么安排揭晓的节奏？

How do we space out the reveals?

能不能在观众面前直接抽16选1？

Could we draw 16 to one in front of the audience?

NHL过去两年就是这么做的。

So the NHL did this the last two years.

我爸爸可是NHL乐透的铁杆粉丝，真的特别喜欢这个环节。今年，如果枫叶队从第五名掉到第六名，棕熊队就能拿到他们的选秀签。

My dad, probably the biggest fan of the NHL draft lottery, like really genuinely loves it, And this year the Bruins, if the Maple Leafs fell from five to six, the Bruins got their pick.

但他们是一步步从第一顺位往下公布选秀签的，结果多伦多猛龙队赢了抽签。

But they revealed that the picks in correct order from one down, and the Maple Leafs won the lottery.

他说，虽然这对凯尔特人来说挺倒霉的，但整个过程太精彩了。

And he said, even though it sucked for the Bruins, was amazing.

我觉得这整个节目可以延长到一小时。

So I think it could be an hour.

我觉得应该逐个公布选秀顺位。

I think you reveal the picks.

先公布第一顺位，然后倒着往回公布，比如前四名或者我们现在的抽签规则下有多少个，而且我觉得应该让各队的总经理亲自上台公布，就这么做，之后再留二十分钟，给观众详细解释为什么是这样的，基克，你觉得呢？

You reveal the first pick first, and then you go backwards, you know, through the top four or whatever we have with these lotteries, and I think it's the actual GMs, and you just do it that way, and then you have like twenty minutes after where you can explain to the audience all the Why not, Kirk?

我们为什么不能这么搞？

Why can't we do it this way?

不，就该这么办，而且应该让你、扎克和博比·马克斯这样的专家来告诉大家，这对达拉斯独行侠意味着什么，对其他球队又意味着什么。

No, that's the way it should be, and it should be somebody like you and Zach and Bobby Marks reminding us what this means for the Dallas Mavericks, or what this means for all of these So

你会在每个顺位公布后停十秒吗？会，我会。

would you stop after each pick for like 10 Yeah, I would.

好的。

Okay.

雅各比是这里的电视制片人，所以我把话筒交给他。

And I mean, and Jacoby is the TV producer here, so I turn it to him.

雅各比，我们能不能直接给一分钟或两分钟，好好聊聊这对独行侠意味着什么？

Jacoby, why can't we just have a full minute or two, just be like, what does this mean for the Mavs?

让我们重新理清他们现在的处境。

Let's reset where they are.

电视团队到底在想什么？

What are the TV people thinking?

我是说，确实如此。

I mean, yeah.

我刚才说的不就是这个意思吗？

I mean, that's exactly what I just said before.

还有就是，我想好好感受一下整个过程。

And another thing is I want to take it all in.

我想好好感受一下。

I want to soak it in.

事情发生得太快了。

It happens so fast.

很好。

Great.

正合适。

Good time.

我们同意。

We Yes.

我对这个联盟关注得如此紧密，连我自己都得拼命跟上它的节奏。

Pay such close attention to this league that, like, even I am, like, racing up to keep up with the pace of the thing.

为什么？

Why?

你为什么要这样对我？

Why are you doing that to me?

能不能再夸张一点，让我彻底明白这一切到底意味着什么。

Like, make it more dramatic and make me fully understand exactly what all of this means.

要是奥斯卡颁奖也这么搞，搞个三小时的节目，最后两分钟却飞快地把五个最重要奖项一晃而过，那可真够搞笑的。

It would be funny if the Oscars did it this way and they did like this three hour show, and then the last like two minutes, they just raced through the best five categories.

最佳投手，就一场对决。

Best pitcher or winner, one battle.

最佳投手，老兄。

Best pitcher, dude.

去年，最后是马刺队和独行侠队对决。

So last year when it was it was it came down to the the Spurs and the Mavs last year.

对吧？

Right?

当时真是惊呆了。

And it was like, holy shit.

马刺队真能拿到库珀·弗拉格吗？

Are the Spurs gonna get Cooper Flagg?

对，没错。

Like Right.

你得花上五分钟，好好说清楚这一点。

You need to take, like, five minutes just to That needed to be, like,

五分钟，兄弟。

five minutes, dude.

天哪。

Like, oh my god.

这事儿对得克萨斯州来说，简直太了不起了。

This is incredible for the state of Texas, first of all.

但如果真是文班亚马和库珀·弗拉格对决，那确实值得花五分钟好好讲讲。

But man, if it's gonna be Wemby and Cooper flight, yeah, like, let's have five minutes there.

是的。

Yeah.

好吧。

Alright.

我们都同意。

We all agree.

来自印第安纳波利斯的德里克想知道，作为一位终身支持步行者的球迷，我必须问一句：2025年季后赛那些惊天逆转，是不是让步行者卖了灵魂？

Derek from Indianapolis wants to know, as a lifelong Pacers fan, I have to ask, did the Pacers sell their soul for all the insane playoff comebacks in 2025?

因为从那以后，2025年总决赛第四场变成了斯科特·福斯特式的噩梦，第七场又以哈里伯顿的跟腱断裂收场。

Because since then, game four of the 2025 finals became the Scott Foster experience, Game seven ended with Halliburton's Achilles.

哈里伯顿成了NBA历史上第一个得带状疱疹、体重飙升、还得康复的球员，结果他们还丢了首轮前四顺位，最终被快船捡走，排到了第五位。

Halliburton became the only NBA player to get shingles, and put on weight, and has to recover from that too, and they lost their top four pick, and it went number five to the Clippers.

大多数球迷球队输了就输了，可步行者偏偏擅长这种宇宙级的倒霉时机。

Most fan bases lose, the Pacers specialize in cosmic level timing.

那些惊天逆转，到底用什么换来的？

What was exchanged exactly for those comeback wins?

雅各比，你信‘卖灵魂理论’吗？就是哈里伯顿那球飞向空中的时候？

Jacoby, do you believe in the Sell Your Soul Theory, the Halliburton shot going up in the air?

你觉得冥冥之中真有因果报应，得这么一来一回地平衡吗？

Like, do you think the karmic forces have to, like, balance each other out?

我有个好消息和个坏消息要告诉德里克。

I have good news and bad news for Derek.

坏消息是，没错，真的没错。

The bad news is absolutely yes.

我的意思是，完完全全没错。

I mean, like, absolutely yes.

他得带状疱疹、发胖，都是因为药物副作用，还有那个换来的祖巴茨，两年前他确实很猛，但今年在快船队根本没打出名堂，结果还把首轮签给弄丢了。

The shingles thing and the weight thing because of the medication and they this big trade for Zubach, who was, like, great two years ago, but this year, Clipper Zubach was not, like, tearing it up and then lose the pick.

但对德里克来说，好消息是，他将成为下赛季最铁杆的步行者球迷代表。

But the good news for Derek is he'll be the super fan representing the Pacers of

明年季后赛的那轮比赛。

next year's round.

你这工作稳了。

You got your job.

你已经入局了。

You're in.

你觉得呢，柯克？

What do you think, Kirk?

你相信这些说法吗？

Do you believe in this stuff?

不信。

No.

这不归我管，但我认为他们该心存感激。

That's not my job, but I I think they need to be thankful.

他们有泰雷斯·哈利伯顿呢，兄弟们。

They have Tyrese Halliburton, guys.

你们拥有的可是联盟里最顶尖的控卫之一。

Like, you have one of the best point guards in the league.

这 guy 的进攻效率简直没得说。

This guy's offensive efficiency in a can.

去年他的季后赛表现，可以说是全场最燃的之一。

He had one of the more electric playoff runs we've seen last year.

只要把这位球员的脚踝调整好，明年他们肯定能重回东部顶尖行列，德里克。

We just need to get that guy's foot and ankle right, and they'll be right back where I think they should be near the top of the East next year, Derek.

这跟我想法差不多。

So that's kind of near where I landed.

去年对步行者球迷来说真是一段难忘的旅程。

Last year was an amazing ride for Pacer fans.

简直完美到没话说了。

Like it didn't get better than that.

我实在想不出还有哪次季后赛比这更精彩——他们没拿冠军，却成了整个季后赛最让人记住的球队，这种事可不多见，对吧？

I can't think of a more fun playoff run where they became the most memorable thing about the playoffs even though they didn't win the finals, which never happens, right?

一提到25年的总决赛，我第一个想到的就是步行者，而不是别的任何事。

You think about the 25 finals, I think of the Pacers before I think about anything else that happened.

虽然成绩不算差，但他们还有泰雷斯、齐奥、祖巴茨、内姆哈德、内史密斯、托平、TJ、贾里什·沃克、谢泼德，除了一个之外，首轮签全都在，去年失去米尔斯·特纳本来也早有预料，所以我觉得……

So it wasn't terrible, but they still have Tyrese and Chia Hao, they have Zubat, Nemhard, Neesmith, Toppin, TJ, Jarris Walker, Shepard, they have all of their firsts except one, and they were losing Miles Turner either way last year, so I don't, you know.

今年自由市场上的中锋都没什么特别出色的。

The free agent centers this year weren't that good.

也许哈滕施泰因、罗伯特·威廉姆斯、努尔基克，或者德安德烈·艾顿会是人选。

Maybe Hartenstein's in there, Robert Williams, Nurkic, maybe Deandre Ayton.

所以你可以说，他们确实需要祖巴茨。

So you could argue they needed Zubots.

但关于这笔祖巴茨交易，我一直想不通的是：为什么非得在二月才操作？

The counter though to that Zubots trade, and the part that never made sense to me when it happened is, why did you have to do it in February?

因为就算拿到第五顺位或者第六顺位，我觉得快船队还是会说：行啊，拿祖巴茨换这个，我们干了。

Because you get the fifth, even if you get the fifth pick or the sixth pick, I still feel like the Clippers are gonna be like, yeah, you're gonna trade us that for Zubats, let's do it.

风险和回报根本不匹配，我不喜欢做那种过几个月还让人觉得悬着的交易。

The risk didn't match the reward, because I don't like making trades that are still gonna be sitting there a few months later.

他们完全可以用托平的合同加点小筹码，再加上五号签去换祖巴茨，不用把另一个首轮签也搭进去。

They just could have traded Toppen's contract and something smaller and the number five pick for Zubots and not given up the other first rounder that was in there.

我一直觉得风险和回报不成正比，我觉得雅各比，连他们自己都该设个条件，比如：如果这个签最终变成第五或第六顺位，我们就把第二十九顺位的首轮拿回来之类的。

So I I never thought the risk matched the reward, and I thought, Jacoby, I thought even they could have put like a like a thing like, woah, if this becomes the fifth or sixth pick in this draft, then we get our twenty nine first back or something.

我喜欢祖巴茨，但说实话，这交易的回报真没达到我预期的水平。

Because I like Zubots, but it just doesn't match what the reward was, I don't think.

不过，硬币掷出正面而不是反面之后，也不好意思老去事后挑剔了。

Well, don't wanna, like, be too second guess y after the coin flip went heads instead of tails.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

但我得说，我也挺喜欢祖巴茨的。

But I do wanna say that I do like Zubac as well.

我觉得他和哈登几年前搭档的时候，配合得特别好。

I thought that, like, him and Harden were a great duo a couple years ago.

但一想到步行者那支队伍，还有你提到的那波猛攻，他们到底怎么打的？

But when I think about the Pacers team and that electric run that you're talking about, what do they do?

就是快速反击，冲起来就打。

Like, they get out and run.

根本不让你有时间摆好防守阵型。

Like, they they don't want you to set up your defense.

他们压根不想打半场阵地战。

Like, they don't wanna be in the half court.

所以我看到祖巴茨抢到篮板后一传，然后自己就站在篮下等着了

So I see a lot of, like, Zubac getting the rebound, throwing it out, and then just kind of standing under zone basket and

然后就说

be like,

你们上吧， guys

oh, go ahead, guys.

你们上吧， guys

Like, go ahead, guys.

这事你们搞定，我在这儿待着就行

You guys take care of this.

我就在这儿等着

I'll be here.

还有另一点，柯克，你做这样的交易，本来就是五五开，对吧？

Well the other thing Kirk is, you do a trade like this, and it's fiftyfifty odds, right?

如果他们抽到了签，普里查德就成了英雄

If they get the pick, Pritchard's a hero.