呼啸山庄：荒原上的激情、暴力与复仇

我认为，这就是我和艾米丽分道扬镳的地方。

This is where me and Emily part ways, I think.

她曾对孩子们说，我真的更喜欢狗而不是你们。

She says to the kids at one point, I genuinely, like, prefer the dog to you.

我

I

讨厌你们。

hate you.

你会逐渐明白为什么这种想法如此可怕，为什么这些孩子实际上

And you will discover in due course why that's such a frightening sentiment and why these children were actually

是的。

Yeah.

如果有什么狗在听这个播客，赶紧别听了。

If if there's any dogs listening to this podcast, stop listening.

总之，这也没成功。

Anyway, so that doesn't work out.

所以当她24岁时，她去了布鲁塞尔的一所女子寄宿学校，在那里教音乐。

So when she's 24, she goes to Charlotte to a girls boarding school in Brussels, and she teaches music there.

但又一次，她极其讨厌那里。

But yet again, she absolutely hates it.

她非常势利。

She's very snobbish.

她相当自以为是。

She's quite up herself.

她说，哦，只有等我做完自己的学业后，我才会在一天结束时教孩子们。

She says that, oh, I'll only teach the children at the end of the day when I'm done with my own studies.

而那也是孩子们唯一有休息或自由时间的时候。

And that's the only time that they have a break or free time.

所以她侵占了孩子们的自由时间，不出所料，她非常不受欢迎。

So she cuts into their free time and was unsurprisingly very unpopular.

这太糟糕了。

That's poor.

她也不够时髦。

She was also very unfashionable.

她拒绝穿比利时的时尚服饰。

She refused to wear the Belgian fashions.

不愿意穿最新的比利时时尚吗？

Would not wear the latest Belgian fashions?

对。

No.

但比利时时尚到底会是什么样呢？

But what could a Belgian fashion possibly be?

嗯，你不会懂这些的，因为你不像我这样是时尚达人。

Well, you wouldn't understand such things because you're not a fashionista like me.

你知道比利时时尚是什么吗？

Do you know what Belgian fashions are?

我其实知道。

I do actually.

我只是不想分享它

I just don't feel like sharing it

现在。

right now.

好的。

Okay.

行吧。

Fine.

总之，正因为如此，我觉得这特别有趣，有个叫莱蒂西亚·惠勒赖特的学生，她说她从一开始就讨厌艾米莉·勃朗特。

Anyway, so because of this, and I find this so amusing, there was a student called Leticia Wheelwright, and she said of Emily Bronte, I simply disliked her from the first.

她身材高挑、笨拙、穿着邋遢，总是用‘我希望保持上帝造我的样子’来回应我们的玩笑。

Her tallish, ungainly, ill dressed figure, always answering our jokes with, I wish to be as God made me.

她听起来确实是个糟糕的人。

She actually sounds like a terrible person.

是的。

Yeah.

伟大的评论家凯瑟琳·休斯，我读了她写的一篇关于这个的文章

The great critic, Catherine Hughes, I was reading an article that she wrote about this

这本书，

book,

她把艾米莉·勃朗特描述为难相处女性的守护圣人。

and she described Emily Bronson as the patron saint of difficult women.

你不会想在晚宴上坐在她旁边，因为她根本不会去。

You're not gonna be sat next to her at a dinner party because she wouldn't go.

她不会出去。

She won't go out.

但假如不幸地

But if by some terrible mischance

你在参加圣经诵读之类的活动。

You're having a bible reading or something.

从这一点就能看出她的外貌特征。

Her physical portrait can tell from that.

她非常不时髦。

She's very unfashionable.

是的。

Mhmm.

而且据说她很高，骨架也很大。

And she's also said to be tall and had big bones.

骨架很大。

Big bones.

通常当人们说你骨架大时，他们的意思是

Generally, when people say you're big bones, they mean that

这不是好事。

It's not a good thing.

对。

Yeah.

带有贬义的。

In an unflattering way.

对吧？

Right?

实际上，他们拍了一部电影叫《艾米丽》，由艾玛·麦凯主演。嗯。

And actually, there's a movie that they did called Emily with Emma McKay Mhmm.

就是《性教育》里的那位，他们在这部电影里非常、非常地演绎了这一点。

From Sex Education, and they very, very much play into this.

我觉得，她给人的感觉几乎是自闭症似的。

Like, like, she comes across as almost autistic, I think.

对。

Right.

人们是这么说她的，对吧？

And people said that about her, didn't they?

是的。

Yeah.

嗯，后来人们给她诊断出自闭症或厌食症之类的，人们总喜欢对过去的人物做这种事。

Well, people have diagnosed her since with autism or with anorexia and all these kinds of things, which people love to do with characters in the past.

我总觉得这有点可疑。

I always think that's slightly dodgy.

但我得告诉你一件更可疑的事。

I'll tell you one thing that's very dodgy though, actually.

你提到了《狗的事》。

So you mentioned The Business About Dogs.

是的。

Yeah.

正如我们待会儿会讨论的，《呼啸山庄》是一本充满暴力的书。

As we'll discuss, Wuthering Heights is is a violent book.

书中存在大量各种形式的虐待，极其暴力。

There is a lot of abuse of various kinds of Shockingly violent.

不仅是身体上的，还有精神上的。

As well as mental.

是的。

Yeah.

你可能会说，嗯，这个性格怎么会出现在这样一个内向、孤独、非常爱读书的女孩身上呢？

You might say, well, where does this come from in this sort of quite withdrawn, lonely, you know, very bookish girl?

答案是，她自己也很暴力。

And an answer is, she herself is quite violent.

她养了一只叫基珀的狗，她非常爱基珀，对吧？

So she had this dog called Keeper, and she loves Keeper, doesn't she?

但有一天，狗带着泥泞的爪子跳上她的床，她竟然一拳打在狗脸上。

But one day, he climbs on her bed with muddy paws, and she reacts by punching him in the face.

是的。

Yeah.

但不止一次，而是反复地

But not just once, but, like, again

一次又一次。

and again.

如果你比爱人类更爱狗，那你作为她的学生可就惨了。

And if you love dogs more than people, you're in big trouble if you're one of her students.

我觉得我们对艾米莉多少得有点同情。

I I think you we have to be slightly sympathetic towards Emily.

你知道，她成长过程中，据我们所知，有一个非常暴躁的父亲，而且她在年幼时就经历了许多失去，非常孤独。

You know, she's grown up with, as far as we can tell, a very angry father and she's suffered a lot of loss at a young age and she's very isolated.

因此，从这个角度来说，我对她确实有那么一点同情。

So I do have a little bit of pity towards her in that respect.

但另一点值得记住的是，人们几乎把艾米莉·勃朗特神化为一种女权主义偶像，我们会再稍微谈一谈这一点。

But the other thing that's worth remembering is is that, you know, because people, they almost canonize Emily Bronte as kind of like a feminist icon and we'll touch on that a bit more.

你知道，她的政治立场其实相当保守，不是吗？

You know, she has quite kind of high Tory politics, doesn't she?

她可能会放狗去追那些女权运动者之类的。

She would have set the dog on on suffragettes or whatever.

没错。

Right.

这与她作为荒原上自由不羁的斯芬克斯的形象并不相符。

Which is not in keeping with the idea of her as this kind of free spirited sphinx of the Moors.

嗯，这又回到了凯瑟琳·休斯说她有点难相处的问题上。

Well, it goes back to the thing, Catherine Hughes' thing about her being a bit difficult.

难相处。

Difficult.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

所以她并不容易让人喜欢。

So she's not immediately likable.

不管怎样，她从比利时回来了。

Anyway, she comes back from Belgium.

她和她的姐妹们都是出色的作家。

She and her sisters are great writers.

确实是。

They are.

她正在写大量的诗。

She's writing loads of poems.

1846年，她和姐妹们的诗集出版了，她们使用笔名来隐藏自己的性别。

In 1846, she and her sister's poems are published, and they're using pen names to disguise their gender.

她们分别是柯勒·贝尔、埃利斯·贝尔和阿克顿·贝尔，对应夏洛特、艾米莉和安妮。

So they're Curra Bell, Ellis Bell, and Acton Bell, Charlotte, Emily, and Anne.

然后，文学史上出现了最非凡的时刻。

Then there's the most extraordinary moments in literary history.

是的。

Yeah.

在1847年。

In the 1847.

首先，她的姐姐夏洛特出版了《简·爱》，一个月后，艾米莉以埃利斯·贝尔的笔名出版了《呼啸山庄》。

First of all, her sister Charlotte publishes Jane Eyre, and then a month later, Emily publishes Wuthering Heights under the name of Ellis Bell.

最初的评论对书中所展现的暴力与激烈情绪感到震惊，不是吗？

And the first reviews were really shocked, weren't they, by the what they saw as the violence and aggression of the book.

他们没有说，天哪。

They didn't say, gosh.

这真是一个美好的浪漫故事。

This is a lovely romantic story.

他们说，我的天啊。

They said, oh my god.

你知道，这太令人震惊了。

You know, this is shocking.

对于19世纪40年代末的维多利亚时代读者来说，书中所展现的复仇、仇恨、怨恨和嫉妒程度确实令人不安。

This is gen for to a Victorian reader in the late eighteen forties, the degree of revenge and hatred and resentment and jealousy in the book is really kinda troubling.

但也有一些人非常喜欢书中这一部分。

But there were some that really liked that about the book.

比如但丁·加布里埃尔·罗塞蒂说，这是他多年以来读过最好的书，他特别喜欢其中的这一元素。

Like Dante Gabriel Rossetti said it was the best book he'd read for ages, And he likes that element of it.

他说这是一本恶魔般的书，一个不可思议的怪物。

He says it's a fiend of a book, an incredible monster.

故事的背景设定在地狱，但那些地方和人物似乎都用了英国名字。

The action is laid in hell, only it seems the places and people have English names there.

因此你可以看出，有些人确实被这种黑暗氛围深深吸引。

So you can see from that that, you know, some people were really drawn to the kind of darkness of it all.

是的。

Yeah.

所以在那时，人们可能认为，她将会拥有辉煌的文学事业。

So at that point, people are probably thinking, well, she's gonna go and have this tremendous literary career.

没错。

Exactly.

但有趣的是，这本书实际上是偷偷跟着《简·爱》一起出版的，因为《简·爱》的出版商意识到它会大获成功，于是说：‘好吧，那我们也出你妹妹的书吧。’

Although interestingly, the book was kind of smuggled in behind Jane Eyre because the publishers of Jane Eyre realized it was gonna be a big success and they said, okay, well, we'll publish your sister's books.

无论如何，这本书后来引发了公众的广泛想象。

Anyway, then it captured the public imagination.

但到了1848年9月，她的兄弟布兰威尔突然去世，很可能是肺结核加上酗酒和鸦片成瘾所致。

But then in September 1848, her brother Bramwell drops dead, probably TB coupled with an alcohol and opium addiction.

接着，艾米莉在葬礼上得了重感冒。

And then Emily herself caught a massive cold at his funeral.

而且她可能早在学校时期就已经感染了肺结核。

And she may actually have already had TB from her school days.

而且，这是一个疯狂的事实，这与蒂姆·伯顿风格中他们形象的塑造密切相关——他们都喝了来自当地墓地的径流污水。

And also, and this is a mad fact, this ties in enormously into the kind of Tim Burton image of them, they'd all been drinking water from the local graveyard runoff.

所以他们实际上一直在喝尸体水。

So they'd been they'd literally been drinking corpse water.

难怪他们都这么虚弱。

It's no wonder they're all so sickly.

对。

Right.

一个严重的错误。

A bad mistake.

她没有。严重的错误。

She doesn't Bad mistake.

她不信任医生，是吧？

She doesn't rate doctors, does she?

所以当她病得很严重时，她说不，他们都是庸医。

So when she falls really ill, she says, no, they're all quacks.

然后她越来越糟，越来越糟。

Then she gets worse and worse and worse.

到了12月19日，她说：好吧，我现在确实病得很重了。

And then on the December 19, she says, okay, I am actually quite ill now.

我想你最好叫个医生来。

I think probably you should call a doctor.

他们叫了医生，两小时后，她就去世了。

And that they got they call a doctor, and two hours later, she's dead.

她的生命就此结束了。

That's the end of her.

太晚了。

Too late.

太多墓地的水了。

Too much graveyard water.

所以据说她下葬时，殡葬师从未做过这么小的棺材，因为她太瘦了。

So she's buried in supposedly, the undertakers had never made a smaller coffin because she's so thin.

这导致后来有人认为，也许她患有饮食失调，可能是厌食症之类的。

That's one of the things that has led people subsequently to say, oh, maybe she had an eating disorder, maybe she was anorexic or something.

在她去世后，她的形象很大程度上由她的姐姐夏洛特固定下来，夏洛特为《呼啸山庄》写了序言。

And then after her death, her memory is kind of fixed by her sister Charlotte, who writes these prefaces to Wuthering Heights.

或许有点不诚实吧。

Slightly disingenuously, perhaps.

是的。

Yeah.

可能是因为一些评论家认为，夏洛特担心《呼啸山庄》太过暴力，会损害勃朗特家族的声誉。

Possibly because what she's some critics have thought that what Charlotte was trying to do was she was anxious that Wuthering Heights was so violent, and it would kind of tarnish the Bronte brand.

她说，你不能真的责怪我妹妹写了这些，因为她是一个‘荒原的土生土长者和养育者’。

She says, well, you can't really blame my sister for what she wrote because she's a, and I quote, a native and nursing of the Moors.

她比孩子还要单纯。

She was simpler than a child.

她的天性独一无二。

Her nature stood alone.

她并不知道自己做了什么。

She did not know what she had done.

是的。

Yeah.

于是她把艾米莉塑造成了一种天真的怪才，仿佛受到某种神圣启示才写下《呼啸山庄》。

So she kind of turns her into this sort of innocent freak, touched by kind of divine inspiration in the matter of Yeah.

写下《呼啸山庄》。

Of writing Wuthering Heights.

因此，她把《呼啸山庄》变成了一种自然现象。

And she turns therefore Wuthering Heights into this kind of natural phenomenon.

它纯粹而质朴。

It is rustic through.

它像希斯克利夫的根一样荒凉、狂野而盘结。

It is moorish and wild and knotty as the root of Heath.

但有趣的是，夏洛特后来回去修改了《呼啸山庄》的大量内容。

But then funnily enough, Charlotte actually went back and amended large swathes of Wuthering Heights.

她把整个作品的基调都降低了。

And she tones the whole thing down.

她确实修改了一些对话。

And she actually changed the some of the speech.

所以，有一个名叫约瑟夫的疯狂古怪角色，总是引用圣经段落，总是与所有人发生冲突。

So, there's a mad eccentric character called Joseph, who is always quoting passages from the bible, always getting crossed with everyone.

我曾怀疑这个角色身上是否带有艾米莉·勃朗特父亲的影子。

I did wonder if there was something of Emily Bronte's father in that.

无论如何，他讲的是非常浓重的北方方言，约克郡口音，正是如此。

Anyway, and he speaks in a very strong northern dialect, Yorkshire accent, exactly.

而她大大削弱了这种口音，我其实觉得，谢天谢地，因为原版根本让人听不懂。

And she massively tones that down, and I actually think, thank god, because he's utterly incomprehensible as it is.

一开始，当我读他的部分时，我试着用约克郡口音低声念出来，以便理解内容。

At first, when I was reading his bits, I started to sort of mutter them to myself in Yorkshire dialect to try and make sense of them.

但读到书的一半时，我意识到他其实一直在说同样的话。

And then about halfway through the book, I thought he only ever says the same thing anyway.

所以我就直接

So I'll just

这就像我之前说过的《魔戒》里的那些歌曲。

This is what I said about the songs in Lord of the Rings.

我只是跳过了它们，而你对这件事感到震惊。

I just kinda skipped over them, and you were appalled by that.

我到现在还是对这件事感到震惊。

I am still appalled by that.

那可能是你曾经说过的最糟糕的话。

That's probably the worst thing you've ever said.

这太令人失望了，因为歌曲当然是《魔戒》中最精彩的部分，这是人人都知道的。

So very disappointing, because the song is, of course, the best bit of the Lord of the Rings, as everybody knows.

哦，天啊。

Oh, god.

既然你提到了约瑟夫，我们不妨看看《呼啸山庄》里的几个角色吧？

So since you mentioned Joseph, shall we just have a look at some of the characters in Wuthering Heights?

因为这些角色能很好地体现书中的主题。

Because they're a good way into the themes of the book.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此。

They definitely are.

没读过这本书的人可能会觉得，天啊，这全都是关于辽阔的风景、狂野的情感之类的。

People who've not read the book may think, gosh, this is all about kind of massive landscapes, wild passions, and whatnot.

实际上，这本书相当封闭压抑。

Actually, it's quite a claustrophobic book.

大部分情节都发生在室内这些非常封闭的空间里。

Most of the action is set indoors in these very kind of enclosed spaces.

正如我们所说，书中有很多名字相同的角色，以及彼此互为镜像的角色。

As we said, there's a lot of doubling characters with the same names, and characters who are mirror images of each other.

而叙事结构常常是故事套故事再套故事，因为整个故事是由一个叫洛克伍德的人讲述给我们的。

And then the narration, it's often kind of a story within a story within a story, because the whole thing is being told to us by this bloke, Lockwood.

而洛克伍德，他实际上是叙述者。

And Lockwood, he's actually the narrator.

我们对他知之甚少，对吧？

We know very little about him, do we?

几乎一无所知，这反而有种诡异的阴森感。

Hardly anything, which is kind of oddly sinister.

他就像一个旁观的局外人。

He he's like the outsider looking in.

他就像是我们。

He's like us.

他正遭遇这些疯狂的家庭、他们疯狂的互动，以及他们的残酷与暴力。

He's encountering these mad families and their mad dynamics and their brutality and their violence.

因此他的震惊也就是我们的震惊。

And his shock is therefore kind of our shock.

总之，接下来我们有了第二位叙述者，他向洛克伍德讲述这本书的故事，这位就是内莉·迪恩。

Anyway, so then we have our secondary narrator who is telling Lockwood the story of the book, and this is Nelly Dean.

对。

Right.

她是桑德斯庄园的女管家，正如我们所说，她以前曾在呼啸山庄工作。

And she is the housekeeper at Thrushcross Grange, as we said, and she used to work at Wuthering Heights.

她曾是居住在呼啸山庄的欧恩肖家的仆人，对这家人非常忠诚。

And she was a servant to the Urnshalls, the family who live at Wuthering Heights and was kind of devoted to them.

按照典型的哥特式手法，内莉并不可完全信赖，对吧？

In typically Gothic manner, Nelly is not entirely reliable, is she?

她实际上也是故事本身的参与者。

She's actually kind of a participant in the story herself.

是的。

Yeah.

她不会告诉某些角色一些事情。

She doesn't tell certain characters things.

她似乎和希斯克利夫非常亲近，你会怀疑她是否站在他那边，然后却又突然背弃了他。

She seems very close to Heathcliff and you wonder if she's on his side and then kind of turns her back on him.

她对凯瑟琳并不太同情。

She's not very sympathetic to Kathy.

因此，她在故事中扮演了相当重要的角色。

So she plays quite a big part in the story.

你还会隐约觉得，她所能讲述的内容是有局限的，因为她不像她所描述的那些角色那样受过良好教育。

You also feel slightly that there's a limit to what she can tell you because she's not as educated as the characters that she is describing.

而且这一点很奇怪。

And oddly that.

所以，我个人非常喜欢不可靠的叙述者。

So I I personally, I love an unreliable narrator.

我知道你喜欢。

I know you do.

是的。

Yeah.

二十世纪五十年代有一位名叫詹姆斯·哈夫尔的评论家，他基本上认为内莉可能是

And there was a critic in the fifties called James Hafle, who basically said maybe Nelly is

反派。

The villain.

反派。

The villain.

也许内莉才是故事中的反派，因为她常常隐瞒或泄露角色们告诉她的秘密，而她在故事中也向你透露了这些。

Maybe Nelly is the villain in the story because she's often kind of either concealing or disclosing confidences that characters have told her, and she tells you this in the story.

实际上，她向希斯克利夫等人透露的一些信息，最终导致了灾难性的后果。

And actually, some of the things that she reveals to Heathcliff and whatnot, they end up having disastrous consequences.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，你难道不觉得，这本书实际上讲的全是内莉吗？

And so you could argue, couldn't you, that she's the actual the book is all about Nelly.

他们都是她的提线木偶。

They're all her puppets.

没错。

Exactly.

他们都是她的提线木偶。

They're all her puppets.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这样说有点苛刻了，我觉得这样过度解读文本，强行加入批评分析了。

I think I think that's a bit harsh, I also think that's, like, working a little bit too hard to read critical analysis into the book.

我觉得她就像一个坚韧、典型的约克郡女性。

I think she's like a stolid, quite hard Yorkshire woman.

好的。

Okay.

她对恩肖一家非常忠诚。

Very devoted to the Earnshaws.

但我认为她从来都不是故意不告诉别人事情的。

But I don't think she intentionally doesn't tell people things ever.

总之

Anyway

我觉得你可能是对的。

I I think you're probably right.

所以她在书中大部分时间所服务的家族是林顿家。

So the family that she is working for now in for much of the book are the Lintons.

他们可以说是，你知道的，你认为他们是十足的无聊之人。

And they're kind of you know, you think of them as absolute drips.

我也觉得他们是彻底的

I do think of them as total

无聊之人。

drips.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得他们实际上挺可怜的。

I think they're quite hard done by actually.

我觉得他们可能是书中最理智的角色，他们与恩肖家形成了鲜明对比。

I think they might actually be sort of the sanest characters in the book and they are they contrast enormously with the Earnshaws.

他们都是金发且优雅的。

They're all blonde and elegant.

他们更像简·奥斯汀笔下的人物。

They're much more Jane Austen.

他们过着奢华的生活。

They live in luxury.

与呼啸山庄相比，画眉田庄显得乏味得多。

The Grange is much more insipid in comparison to Wuthering Heights.

因此，他们家族的首领，我们主要讨论的角色是一个叫埃德加的人，老凯瑟琳·恩肖嫁给了他。

So that the head of their family, the main character that we're dealing with is a guy called Edgar, and old Kathy Earnshaw marries him.

那是因为他优雅。

It's because he's elegant.

他优雅、精致且富有。

He's elegant and refined and he's wealthy.

是的。

Yeah.

他基本上是一个会被这些糟糕的邻居毁掉生活的人。

And he's basically somebody whose life is going to be destroyed by these awful neighbors.

主要是被希斯克利夫。

Largely by Heathcliff.

是的。

Yeah.

实际上，我喜欢爱德加。

I actually like I like Edgar.

我喜欢他的发展轨迹。

I like his trajectory.

我认为他从一个有点可怜的懦弱者，成长为一个相当优秀且坚强的人。

I think he goes from being a kind of very slightly pathetic drip to being quite a good man and quite a strong man.

总之，他的妹妹是伊莎贝拉。

Anyway, so his sister is Isabella.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

她确实非常爱抱怨。

And she really is quite whiny.

但我得说，凯瑟琳·恩肖，埃德加的妻子，对她非常刻薄。

But I have to say, Catherine Earnshaw, old Kathy Edgar's wife is horrible to her.

但她爱上了希斯克利夫，和他私奔了，几乎立刻就后悔了。

But she falls in love with Heathcliff and elopes with him and regrets it almost immediately.

就在她的新婚之夜，她就后悔了。

Like, on her wedding night, she regrets it.

是的。

Yeah.

她最终带着身孕逃离了他，之后独自抚养他们的儿子，远离他，直到去世。

She ends up running away from him, pregnant, and then raises their son together away from him before dying.

她就是那种典型的维多利亚时代受害者。

She's the kind of absolute archetypal Victorian victim.

不是吗？

Isn't she?

是的。

Yeah.

她基本上

She's basically

爱上了个坏男孩。

fallen in love with a bad boy.

没错。

Exactly.

在

On

刚结婚不久，她就想，天哪。

on as soon as they've got married, she thinks, oh my god.

我犯了一个可怕的错误。

I've made a terrible mistake.

她有点像《傲慢与偏见》里的莉迪亚，你觉得呢？

She's kind of Lydia, don't you think, from Pride and Prejudice?

确实有些相似之处。

There's something of a comparison.

有一点点。

A little bit.

我明白你的意思，确实如此。

I can see I can see what you mean, definitely.

这个家庭的第三个成员是年轻的凯西。

The third member of the household is young Kathy.

对。

Right.

埃德加的女儿。

Edgar's daughter.

埃德加的女儿。

Edgar's daughter.

对。

Right.

所以埃德加娶了凯瑟琳·恩肖，也就是年长的凯西。

So Edgar has married Catherine Earnshaw, the older Kathy.

他们也生了一个女儿，名叫凯西。

They have a daughter also called Kathy.

她有点调皮，我们听说了。

She's a bit saucy, we told.

是的。

Yeah.

内莉说她调皮。

Nelly calls her saucy.

她非常早熟，金发，很漂亮。

She's very precocious and she's blonde and she's pretty.

但我认为，她实际上比她母亲凯瑟琳更温暖善良。

But she's actually much more warm hearted, I think, than her mother, Catherine.

她在画眉田庄长大，那里充满了阳光般的纯真。

And she's raised at the Grange with kind of the sunny innocence of that place.

但她对这种束缚感到压抑，因为她的父亲不希望她外出，生怕她遇到呼啸山庄那些阴暗的人，而她最终还是去了。

But she strains against the confines of it because her father doesn't want her going out, lest she meet the dark denizens of Wuthering Heights, and she eventually does.

希斯克利夫引诱她，并最终将她囚禁在呼啸山庄。

Heathcliff lures her in and ends up entrapping her at the Heights.

但问题就在于此，不是吗？

Well, that's the thing, isn't it?

呼啸山庄就像一座迷宫，一个阴暗狭小的空间

Wuthering Heights is like this labyrinth, this dark cramp

一旦你进去

Once you go in

是的。

Yeah.

别无他法。

There's no way else.

你进去之后，就再也回不去了。

You you never come out the same.

没错。

Exactly.

他设法诱使她嫁给了自己的儿子，而这个儿子恰巧名叫林顿。

And he manages to entrap her into marrying his son, helpfully called Linton.

是的。

Yeah.

这孩子就是伊莎贝拉逃跑时怀上的那个。

And this is the child that Isabella was carrying when she ran away.

后来她去世后，孩子被强行带回了呼啸山庄，尽管他并不愿意。

And then when she dies, she's taken back to the heights against his will.

所以这其中总带着一丝乱伦的意味，因为基本上只有六个角色，他们都叫同样的名字，彼此都是亲戚，最终以各种组合互相结婚。

So there's always this slightly incestuous nature to it because it's basically six characters, all have the same name, and they all end up they're all cousins, they all end up marrying each other in various combinations.

天啊。

God.

想象一下，他们将来会像哈布斯堡家族一样古怪，

Imagine how weird that they're gonna be like the Habsburgs by the

第三代。

third generation.

哈布斯堡家族。

Habsburgs.

是的。

Yeah.

他们会长出鳃和鳍。

They're have gills and fins.

所以林顿，他是希斯克利夫和伊莎贝拉的儿子。

So Linton, so he's the son of Heathcliff and Isabella.

对吧？

That that's right, isn't it?

他是个极其糟糕的人。

And he's a terrible perk.

他根本没有任何值得称道的地方。

He's just there's nothing No redeeming things about him whatsoever.

如果有人看过《权力的游戏》，他会让人联想到乔佛里·拜拉席恩。

If anyone's watched Game of Thrones, he bears a striking resemblance to Joffrey Baratheon.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我能看出来。

I can see that.

他总是抱怨。

He's always moaning.

他非常挑剔。

He's very picky.

他非常残忍。

He's very cruel.

他讨厌户外活动，而且对他的妻子和表妹小凯西·林顿非常虐待。

He hates the outdoors, and he's very abusive towards his wife and cousin, young Kathy Linton.

塔比，我看过你的笔记，所以我知道下一句是：与迪·桑布鲁克有着惊人的相似之处，这太疯狂了。

Tabby, I've seen your notes, so I can see the next sentence, which is uncanny similarities with Dee Sandbrook, and that is mad.

这太疯狂了。

That is mad.

你知道的，那种非常聪明、总待在室内的类型，对吃的东西非常挑剔。

You know, sort of very intellectual, staying indoors, very picky about what he eats.

对什么挑剔。

Picky about what

吃的东西？

he eats?

什么？

What?

那不是那不是那不是

That's not that's that's

你知道，我其实本来不想说这个，但你已经选择自我毁灭了。

You know, I actually wasn't gonna say that, but, you know, you've you've chosen to destroy yourself.

但你把它写下来了，这不太好。

But you wrote it down, which is poor.

我们会稍后揭示你写下的关于你和希斯克利夫的一些内容，但那是后话。

Well, we're gonna reveal something you wrote down later about you and Heathcliff, but we'll come to that.

总之，林顿和一个叫哈里顿的人住在呼啸山庄。

Anyway, so Linton lives at Wuthering Heights with a guy called Hareton Yeah.

他的父亲叫辛德利。

Whose father is a guy called Hindley.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

他们为什么不能叫查德和休伯特呢？

Why can't they could have been called like Chad and and Hubert?

没人会叫查德的人有个儿子叫休伯特，反之亦然。

Nobody called Chad would have a son called Hubert or vice versa.

当然了。

Surely.

不。

No.

这倒是真的。

That's true.

没错。

That's Yeah.

所以，辛利是凯瑟琳·恩肖的哥哥。

So anyway, Hindley was Kathy Earnshaw's brother.

是的。

Yeah.

他就是一个怪物，一个男人。

And he is just a monster a man.

是的。

Yeah.

他是个可怕的男人。

He's a monster of a man.

他确实对希斯克利夫非常残忍。

He's actually very abusive to Heathcliff.

对希斯克利夫。

To Heathcliff.

他实施了大量最初的虐待，而这种虐待后来变得自我延续。

This he carries out a lot of the original abuse that then becomes self perpetuating.

是的。

Yeah.

他有个儿子叫哈里顿。

And he's got this son called Hareton.

好的。

Okay.

我只想鼓励一下这一点。

I'm just gonna encourage this.

这就是这本书。

This is the book.

这太简单了。

It's dead easy.

只要把这些人物记在心里。

Just keep these characters in your mind.

希斯克利夫、哈里顿和辛德利。

Heathcliff, Hareton, and Hindley.

他们显然都非常不同。

They're all obviously very different.

基本上，希斯克利夫离开很长时间后又回来了，但我们从来不知道他经历了什么。

Basically, Heathcliff goes off for a long time and comes back, and we never know what happens to him.

他回来后一心要向辛德利复仇。

He comes back dead set on revenging himself on Hindley.

而他复仇的一部分方式就是把哈里顿养得像野兽一样。

And then part of that is by raising Hareton almost as a beast.

他让他变得非常粗俗、极其残忍。

He makes him very uncultured, very brutal.

但我实际上认为，哈里顿本质上是个好人。

But I actually think Hareton is a good man underneath it all.

而他最终爱上了他的表妹，小凯瑟琳·林顿，她嫁给了

And he ends up falling in love with his cousin, young Cathy Linton, who is married to

林顿。

Linton.

林顿。

Linton.

林顿。

Linton.

总之，在小说的结尾，他们最终走到了一起。

Anyway, at the end of the novel, they end up kind of an item.

她教他读书，他们渐渐回归那种原本的优雅，仿佛在努力重返那种在呼啸山庄永远失落的教养。

She teaches him to read and it's and they kind of go back to the gent they're, like, straining to return to their gentility that is always lost at Wuthering Heights.

总之，这引出了小说中实际上的女主角，她几乎和希斯克利夫一样具有标志性，那就是凯瑟琳·恩肖，老凯茜。

Anyway, this leads us to the character that is essentially the heroine of the novel and almost as iconic as Heathcliff, and this is Catherine Earnshaw, old Kathy.

所以玛格特·罗比在电影中饰演她。

So Margot Robbie is playing her

是的。

Yes.

在电影里。

In the movie.

我觉得这个选角很有争议，但我认为不错。

Quite controversial casting, I thought, but I think so.

我们周五再看看对这个选角有什么看法。

We'll see what we think of it on Friday.

所以在某种程度上，她是小说的中心。

So she is the center of the novel in some ways.

是的。

Yeah.

她确实是整个故事的支点。

She's the fulcrum of it, really.

没错。

She is.

而书中核心的是希斯克利夫对她那种强烈而执迷的激情。

And at the center of the book is the driving, obsessive passion that Heathcliff has for her.

你多少能理解为什么会这样。

And you can sort of see why.

她是个很有意思的角色。

She's a fun character.

她很狂野。

She's wild.

她很有魅力。

She's magnetic.

她很叛逆。

She's defiant.

她非常美丽。

She's very beautiful.

她非常自私。

She's very selfish.

我的意思是，她确实很任性，不是吗？

I mean, she really is entitled, isn't she?

她不该吃那么多肉。

She she should not have been eating so much meat.

是的。

Yeah.

当我第一次读这本书时，我觉得她是一个终极的、独立而充满激情的反叛者。

And I I when I first read it, I thought, you know, she's the ultimate, independent, passionate rebel.

这次再看，我觉得她那种傲慢任性的特质表现得更加明显了。

And this time around, I thought, you know, the element of her that is an entitled brat came out of it a lot.

是的。

Yeah.

她在生下女儿小凯瑟琳后去世了。

And so she dies after giving birth to her daughter, young Cathy.

我们始终不太清楚她具体是怎么死的、为什么死，但她在希斯克利夫怀中离世的场景，我认为非常感人。

We never entirely understand how or why and she dies in Heathcliff's arms in what I think is quite a moving scene.

但她死得太快了。

But she dies so quickly.

这真让我感到意外。

This was a real surprise to me.

比如，前一页她还活着，一切都很正常。

Like, page, she's alive and everything's fine.

然后，基本上就在三句话之内，她就去世了。

And then basically, she dies in about three sentences.

是的。

Yeah.

但她的生命基本上由这两种爱定义。

But her life is kind of defined by these two loves.

她对希斯克利夫那种狂野、毁灭性、具有破坏性的爱，她是他的灵魂伴侣，以及她对林顿那种更安全、更温和的爱，林顿就像是她的保障。

Her wild, devastating, destructive love for Heathcliff, her soul mate, and then her much safer, tamer love for Linton and he's like her security.

她曾说过，希斯克利夫就像岩石，而林顿只是上面的落叶，你知道，落叶会被吹走，但她对希斯克利夫的爱却始终不变。

And she says at one point that like Heathcliff is like the rock and Linton is like the leaves on top, you know, they'll blow away but her love for Heathcliff remains.

对。

Right.

你知道，她说过那句非常著名的话，全世界的女孩子一直都被这句话深深吸引：希斯克利夫比我更像我自己，无论我们的灵魂由什么构成，他的和我的是一样的。

You know, she says that very very famous line that I know that particularly girls all over the world have always been drawn to and that is Heathcliff is he's more myself than I am, whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same.

你很喜欢这句话吗？

And And you love that?

我依然觉得这很动人，也印证了你对我所有最糟糕的猜测。

I still find that quite moving, confirming all your worst suspicions about my Yeah.

是的，深藏不露的浪漫天性。

Yeah, deeply buried romantic nature.

我确实仍然觉得这很动人。

I do I do still find that moving.

它让你能够沉溺于灵魂伴侣这个想法。

It kind of it allows you to indulge in the idea of soulmates.

但无论如何，这把我们带到了书中她憎恨与激情的对象面前。

But anyway, this brings us to the man who is the object of her kind of hatred and passion throughout the book.

这是一个引人入胜的谜团，这个人，这个传说，这个怪物或吸血鬼——希斯克利夫。

And this is the fascinating enigma, the man, the myth, the monster or vampire that is Heathcliff.

但我想，我们就停在这里，留下这个令人着迷的悬念，稍后再讨论他。

But I think on that tantalising note that we should we should come to a break and discuss him afterwards.

很精彩。

Exciting.

欢迎回到读书会。

Welcome back to the book club.

现在，我们在休息前承诺过要讨论希斯克利夫。

Now, we promised before the break that we would be discussing Heathcliff.

多米尼克，你在笔记中写道，你与希斯克利夫有着惊人的相似之处。

And Dominic, you write in the notes that you bear an uncanny similarity to Heathcliff.

所以也许你可以解释一下。

So maybe you want to explain yourself.

说实话，我觉得听众们已经能感受到这一点了。

I think that will have come through for the listeners already, to be honest.

那种压抑、阴郁、隐约透出暴力的气质。

The kind of smoldering, brooding, dark kind of hint of violence.

希斯克利夫是这样一种人物，即使你没读过《呼啸山庄》，也可能听说过他，他几乎笼罩着整个英国文学。

Heathcliff is one of those characters who even if you haven't read Wuthering Heights, you maybe have heard of him, and he kind of casts a shadow over all English literature.

在书中，我们得知他是个弃儿。

In the book, we are told that he's a foundling.

他来自利物浦，而且……

He's from Liverpool, and Mr.

厄恩肖先生，也就是凯茜的父亲，是在一次前往利物浦的商务旅行中发现他的。

Earnshaw Sr, so Cathy's father, basically found him on a business trip to Liverpool.

我认为，考虑到这是19世纪40年代末，他很可能是爱尔兰人。

And the implication, I think, because this is the late 1840s, is that he's probably Irish.

那是爱尔兰大饥荒的时期。

This is the period of the Irish famine.

显然，利物浦作为与爱尔兰移民相关的港口。

Obviously, Liverpool, a port associated with migration from Ireland.

所以我认为，这种假设是存在的。

So I think that the assumption.

他被描述为肤色黝黑的吉普赛人，这种‘他者性’，我认为在维多利亚时代的读者眼中，会被解读为他的爱尔兰身份。

He's described as a dark skinned gypsy, and this sort of otherness, I think, would have been interpreted by Victorian readers as his Irishness.

有一种观点认为，他受到拜伦勋爵的启发，拜伦是前一代那种放荡不羁的诗人和名人。

There is a case that he's inspired by Lord Byron, the sort of rake and poet and celebrity of a generation or so earlier.

我们知道，艾米莉·勃朗特是拜伦勋爵的狂热粉丝。

And we know that Emily Bronte was a huge fan of Lord Byron

还有。

as well.

我们知道他们读过一篇1825年发表的关于拜伦的杂志文章。

We know that they had read a magazine article about Byron that had been published in 1825.

他在某种程度上与拜伦相似，既具有吸引力，又充满危险，正如拜伦当年给人的印象。

He occupies a similar sort of space to Byron, in that he is both compelling, but he's also dangerous, as Byron was perceived to be.

是的。

Yeah.

我想，许多评论家和读者都有一种感觉，认为他是个凶猛而具有破坏性的灵魂，强行闯入了他们的家庭，即将摧毁恩肖家和摩尔对面另一户林顿家。

There's a sort of sense, think, that a lot of critics and readers get that he is this ferocious, destructive spirit who has forced his way into their household and is basically going to destroy them, the Earnshaws, and the Lintons, the other family in the other house across the moor.

是的。

Yeah.

但让他对读者具有吸引力的，是他对养妹凯西那种近乎偏执、压倒性的激情。

But what makes him attractive to readers is the almost the obsessive, the overwhelming passion that he has for his adopted sister, Kathy.

她是唯一真正理解他、对他展现过善意的人，而他对她的感情——用‘痴迷’来形容都远远不够。

She's the only person who really understands him, ever shows him any kindness, and he develops this I mean, to call it an obsession is massively to underplay it.

是的。

Yeah.

她占据着他每时每刻的思绪。

She dominates his every waking thought.

我觉得，你隐约能感觉到，他天性中的所有暴力都源于一种挫败感——是的，源于他无法完全拥有她的愤怒。

You get a slight sense, I think, that all the violence of his nature is this kind of is born of frustration Yeah.

以及他无法完全拥有她的愤怒。

And anger that he can't possess her completely.

他曾经一度直接称她为自己的生命。

He actually refers to her at one point as his life.

他 literally 无法没有她而活。

He literally cannot live without her.

事实上，我认为，考虑到希斯克利夫的大部分行为都如此恶劣——他是个极其残忍的角色。

And I actually think, you know, given how how so much of Heathcliff is just horrible, you know, he's a really cruel character.

我认为，人们之所以将他塑造成一种浪漫英雄，正是因为他内心的痛苦。

I think the reason that people have transformed him into this kind of romantic hero is because of his inner torment.

对凯瑟琳·厄恩肖永恒的渴望，那无法满足的欲望。

The constant longing, the constant unquenched desire for for Catherine Urnshall.

我认为，看待希斯克利夫有两种方式。

So there are two ways, I think, in which you can look at Heathcliff.

你可以读这本书，把他看作一个受苦的灵魂，一个始终身处地狱的人，这也是他最初被呈现给我们的样子。

You can read the book and see him as a as a soul who's suffering, somebody who's in hell the whole time, and that's how he's introduced to us.

就像弥尔顿《失乐园》中的撒旦。

Milton's Satan, like, from Paradise Lost.

但另一方面，他确实就是邪恶的，他是有意地作恶。

But that's, I guess, the other side that he is that he's he's just evil, that he's willfully evil.

事实上，有些人再次将他与拜伦相比较，说他有点像吸血鬼。

And indeed, some people, again, pushing the Byron comparison, say he's kind of vampiric.

他是个以这些女性为食的人，因此他毁掉了嫁给他后又后悔的伊莎贝拉·林顿。

He's somebody who is feeding on these women, so he destroys Isabella Linton who marries him Yeah.

然后后悔了。

And then regrets it.

他最终两次挖出了凯西的尸体。

He ends up digging up old Kathy's body Twice.

出于某种奇怪的恋尸癖目的，但并未完全解释清楚。

And for kind of weird necrophiliac purposes that are not fully explained.

他想以一种奇特的方式完全占有她。

He wants to possess her entirely in a funny way.

关键在于，我真的不认为希斯克利夫有任何救赎的时刻。

And that's the thing is I actually I don't think that Heathcliff has any moment of redemption.

读这样的书时，你可能会期待像达西先生那样，一开始他并不好，很残忍。

I think you kind of expect reading a book like this, it's gonna be like mister Darcy or something, where in the beginning, he's not nice and he's cruel.

但到了结尾，却发现他内心其实善良，是个好人。

And then by the end, it turns out he's got a heart of gold underneath it all, and he's a good man.

但这种情况从未发生。

That never happens.

在她妹妹的小说《简·爱》中，罗切斯特先生。

In her sister's book, Jane Eyre, mister Rochester.

没错。

Exactly.

也很讽刺。

Also very ironic.

他阴暗又难搞，但其实他最终并不是

He's dark and difficult, but actually he's not ultimately He's

一个好人。

a good man.

他是个，是的。

He's a yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

希斯克利夫完全没有我们如今习以为常的那种救赎。

There Heathcliff has none none of the redemption to which we are, you know, accustomed these days.

他身上根本没有任何善良之处。

There's no good in him, really.

自那以来，他显然一直吸引着人们的关注。

He obviously has fascinated people ever since.

比如，艾米莉·勃朗特想通过他表达什么？

Like, what is Emily Bronte trying to do with him?

是的。

Yeah.

19世纪40年代，英国和爱尔兰在政治和经济上都处于非常艰难的时期。

The eighteen forties is a very, very politically, economically difficult time in Britain and in Ireland.

那是饥饿的四十年代。

It's the hungry forties.

当时社会充满苦难。

There's a lot of distress.

工业革命已经完成，彻底颠覆了许多社会关系。

The industrial revolution has played out and has turned lots of social relations on their head.

因此，许多人将他视为变革的化身，正在扰乱和削弱既有的秩序。

So a lot of people see him as the embodiment of change, who is kind of disrupting, undermining the established order.

他是局外人。

He's the outsider.

那个异类。

The alien thing.

那个异类。

The alien thing.

没错。

Exactly.

他正在摧毁现有的阶级体系。

Who is destroying the existing kind of class system.

所以这方面也是存在的。

So there's that aspect to it.

显然，现在流行从种族的角度来看待事物。

Obviously, fashionable now is to see things in terms of race.

因此，关于他是个肤色深暗的吉普赛人这种说法，这正是艾米莉·勃朗特所使用的措辞。

So that thing about him being a sort of swarthy dark skinned gypsy, which is the kind of language that Emily Bronte uses.

爱德加和伊莎贝拉的父亲林顿先生曾说过：‘我不知道他是不是有点拉斯特人，或者是个美洲或西班牙的漂流者。’

There's a point at which Edgar and Isabella's father, mister Linton says, oh, I wonder if he is, quote, a little Lascar or an American or Spanish castaway.

而如今，人们越来越倾向于说：‘哦，他来自利物浦。’

And actually, it's become very trendy now to say, well, he comes from Liverpool.

也许他是个逃亡的奴隶。

Maybe he's an escaped slave.

也许他是混血儿之类的，但我并不认为艾米莉·勃朗特会在意这些。

Maybe he's mixed race or whatever, which I don't actually think is would have registered with Emily Bronsiere.

你知道，我不觉得这跟帝国主义或类似的东西有关。

You know, I don't think this is about the empire or anything like that.

你认为她根本没怎么深入思考过他吗？

Do you think she basically hasn't thought that much into him?

他在她的书中纯粹存在于当下。

He exists purely in the present of her book.

她对他过去并不感兴趣。

She's not that interested in his past.

是的

Yeah.

我觉得是的

I think so.

我觉得完全正确

I think exactly right.

我想她会说，你过度分析了。

I think she would say, oh, you're you're overthinking things.

他是一个外部力量，但你不需要用非常字面的方式去解释他究竟来自哪里。

He is an outside force, but you don't need to explain in very literal terms exactly where he's come from.

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，显然，关于他的最核心特征是他的暴力。

I mean, obviously, the defining thing about him is his violence.

是的

Yeah.