朱莉娅·奎恩谈她的《布里奇顿》系列小说及火爆的网飞剧集

是的。

Uh-huh.

但这并不是我高中生活的真实写照。

It was not what my high school life was.

在接下来的几个暑假里，我写完了一整部青少年爱情小说，并把它寄给了《甜蜜梦境》出版社。

And over the course of a couple summers, I wrote an entire teenage romance and I sent it off to Sweet Dreams.

他们拒绝得非常快。

They rejected me so fast.

我知道他们根本没读，因为以我现在对纽约的了解，没人会在两周内从投稿堆里被拒。

I know they didn't read it because I know enough about New York now to know that nobody gets rejected out of the slush pile in two weeks.

这根本不可能发生。

It just doesn't happen.

我想，有人看了一眼，心想：‘是个青少年，她根本不懂自己在写什么。’

And I think somebody looked at it and said, oh, teenager, she won't know what she's doing.

于是我就再也没有碰过它了，因为我不知道接下来该怎么做。

And I so then I never did anything more with it because I didn't know what to do.

但我后来找到了它，你知道，我不得不把它扫描进来并整理干净，我不会出版它，因为这种书现在已经没有市场了，但你绝对能看出来这是我的作品。

But I have since found it and, you know, and I had to scan it in and clean it up and I'm not gonna publish it because there's no market for this type of book anymore, But you can absolutely tell it's me.

这很有趣。

That's the funny thing.

我的声音完全就在那里。

My voice is absolutely there.

除了你曾经写过它、现在又重新读一遍之外，还有什么别的吗？

And what about it other than the fact that you once wrote it and you're reading it again?

早期那种声音，是什么让你觉得它至今仍在某种程度上定义了你？

What is the voice that was there early on that you still feel like defines you in some way?

我其实不太会描述，但它就是听起来像我。

I don't really know how to describe it, but it just sounds like me.

有人曾对我说过，你随便给我一本浪漫小说，我都能认出是你的作品。

And I I have had people say to me, you could hand me a romance novel and I could tell it was you.

我认为，某些作家之所以受欢迎，正是因为拥有非常独特的风格——你知道自己会期待什么，不一定是相同的故事，而是相同的语调和声音。

And I I think that's part of what makes certain authors popular and appealing is having a very distinctive voice that you know what you're gonna expect, not necessarily the same story, but the same tone and voice.

我认为这就是我如此喜爱许多我敬佩的作家的原因

And I think that's what I love about so many of the authors that I love

是的

Mhmm.

是他们的声音。

Is is is their voice.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

我正在开启跨平台对战。

I'm opening up cross play.

我一直在和我的《纽约时报》同事丹对战。

I've been playing against Dan, my colleague at the New York Times.

我要下stoop，s-t-u-p-e，穿过特技板乘数格。

I'm gonna play stoop, s t u p e, across the trickboard multiplier square.

卡特下了另一手。

Kat's played another move.

呃。

Ugh.

她确实用了字母s。

And she did have an s.

她用了“stoop”得了36分。

She played stoop for 36 points.

我手里有个z，值10分。

I've got a z, which is 10 points.

如果我把x放那儿，就能组成“box”。

If I can put my x over there, I can make box.

我有两个a、n和t。

I have two a's, n's, and t's.

我猜“tango”应该不是一个单词。

I'm guessing tango is not a word.

让我看看。

Let's see.

坦戈是个词？

Tango is a word?

哦。

Oh.

我不知道Tenga是什么意思，所以我按了一下这个词，结果定义弹出来了。

Don't know what Tenga means, so I'm gonna press down on the word and oh, definition popped up.

塔吉克斯坦的旧货币单位。

Former monetary unit of Tajikistan.

每次玩这个游戏我都能学到新东西。

Learn something every time I play this game.

尽管我现在领先了大约50分，但我在交叉对战中学到的一点是，游戏永远不到最后一刻都不算结束。

Even though I'm about 50 points ahead, one thing I've learned in cross play is that the game is never over.

我刚收到通知，丹已经下了最后一手。

I just got a notification and Dan played his last turn.

我们来看看谁赢了。

Let's see who won.

太接近了，但我确实赢了。

It's so close, but I did win.

Cross Play，纽约时报游戏推出的首款双人文字游戏。

Cross play, the first two player word game from New York Times games.

今天免费下载吧。

Download it for free today.

当你看到一场本可以赢的游戏时，真是令人沮丧。

It's devastating when you see a game that you could have won.

欢迎回来。

Welcome back.

这是书评播客。

This is the book review podcast.

我是吉尔伯特·克鲁兹，正在与朱莉娅·奎恩交谈，她是《布里奇顿》系列小说的作者，这部小说正是热门奈飞剧集的原著。

I'm Gilbert Cruz, and I'm talking to Julia Quinn, author of the Bridgerton series of books on which the hit Netflix show is based.

你上过学，读过大学，主修艺术史，但当你决定是否要继续攻读医学院时，你已经出版了三本小说。

You went to school, to college, you studied art history, but you also, by the time you were deciding whether or not to actually go forward with medical school, you had published three novels.

你对当时那个场景、浪漫小说类型是什么样子的，还有印象吗？

What is your recollection of what the scene, the romance genre, what what was it like at the time?

因为现在它已经变得非常具体和不同了，我们以后可以再聊。

Because it now it's something very specific and different that we can talk about later.

但那时候它是什么样子的？

But what was it like at the time?

嗯，那是最大的产业。

Well, it was it was the biggest business.

它绝对是出版业最大的赚钱来源，但被所有人看不起。

It was absolutely the biggest moneymaker for publishing and very much looked down upon by everyone else.

包括我们大概也是。

Including us probably.

是的。

Yeah.

我根本不会在这里。

I would never have been here.

《纽约时报》现在会评论爱情小说了，这太令人惊讶了。

The New York Times does review romance novels now, which is amazing.

但当时如果有人建议这种事会发生，我们只会笑出声。

But we would have just laughed if anybody suggested it would ever happen then.

我们是出版商能够出版诗歌的原因，现在仍然是。

We were the reason we still are the reason why publishers can publish poetry.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我们支付了账单。

Because we are paying the bills.

所以当时情况是，这些书都是以平装本原版形式出版的。

So there was that, but the books were all very much in they would come out as mass market paperback originals.

当时非常非常白人，非常异性恋导向。

It was very very white, very heterosexual.

现在依然很白人、很异性恋，但没那么极端了。

It still is very white and heterosexual, but less so.

少多了。

Much less so.

我记得有一位作者，她的第一本书，至少是她的第一本历史言情小说，似乎就在我第一本书由Avon出版社出版前不久问世，而Avon正是我的出版社。

I I remember there was an author who was published right her first book or at least her first historical romance, I think, was published just a little bit before my first book at Avon Books, which is with my publisher.

她的名字叫贝弗利·詹金斯，是历史言情小说史上最具影响力的作家之一。

Her name's Beverly Jenkins, and she's one of the all time greats of historical romance.

这很可能是你第一次在历史言情小说的封面上看到两位黑人角色。

And this was the first time, I'm pretty sure, that you saw historical romance with two black characters on the front.

因为那时候封面都是亲密拥抱的样式，上面会画着两位主角，而我本人一直不太喜欢这种封面设计，但那时确实都是这样。

Because they they would have the clinch covers then where you'd have and then I've never been a huge fan of clinch covers, but you'd have the two characters there.

在书封上出现两位黑人角色，这是一件意义重大的事。

And this was a huge deal to have two black characters on the front of the book.

我想，那本书大概叫《夜曲》，是她的第一部作品。

I think I think the book was called Night Song was the first one.

因此，这个类型在多样性和包容性方面还有很长的路要走。

And so the genre had a long way to go in terms of diversity and inclusion.

我再次想强调，它现在仍然如此。

Again, I wanna emphasize it still does.

是的。

Yeah.

但我们确实在这条道路上取得了很大进展。

But but we have moved along that journey quite a bit.

所以当时就是那样。

So it was like that.

对于历史言情小说来说，当时你能写的背景设定肯定比现在多得多。

It was I think the for historical romance, you definitely could write in more settings than you can now.

这一点确实缩小了。

That has definitely shrunk.

摄政时期——我主要写这一类——一直非常非常受欢迎，我一直很感激我所写的正是受欢迎的类型。

Regency, which I do primarily, has always been very, very popular, and I've always been very grateful that what I want to do is the popular one.

但当我刚入行时，有很多西部题材。

But back when I started, there were a lot of westerns.

那时候还有中世纪题材。

There were medievals.

还有，你知道的，类似美国风情的东西，虽然严格来说不算西部片，因为没有牛仔。

There were, you know, Americana type things, which I guess not really western because there weren't cowboys.

是主街美国吗？

Is it Main Street USA?

是的。

Yeah.

这么说很贴切。

That's a good way to put it.

仍然主要集中在北美或欧洲，但当时的选择更多。

Still very North American or European, but there were more.

而现在几乎所有的历史言情小说都设定在1800年至1890年间的英国。

And now almost all historical romances are set in England between 1800 and 1890.

就是因为人们喜欢这样。

It's just that's what people like.

我们得谈谈这个。

We we have to talk about that.

为什么？

Why?

是的。

Yeah.

为什么人们这么喜欢这个？

Why do people like that so much?

那你为什么这么喜欢它？

And then why do you like it so much?

我的观点是，我更多是在谈论摄政时期，或者说是早期阶段。

So my theory and I'm speaking more for the Regency than anything else or the early part.

摄政时期特指十九世纪初，

And Regency is the the early eighteen hundreds in Specifically,

我认为是1810年到1819年。

I think it's 1810 to 1819.

但那种风格大概是从1790年到1830年左右。

But, like, the flavor of it kinda probably goes from, like, 1790 to 1830.

关于它为什么受欢迎，我的观点是——我认为这不仅适用于我作为读者，也适用于我作为作家——因为它离现在足够遥远，让我们可以对它进行浪漫化。

And my theory about why it's popular, which I think extends to me as a reader and then a writer too is that it is far enough in the past that we can romanticize it.

我们可以赋予它童话般的特质。

We can give it fairytale qualities.

我们可以原谅那些我们现在绝不会接受的行为和态度。

We can excuse behavior and attitudes that we would never accept now.

我们可以设计一些现在根本行不通的情节。

We can have plots that wouldn't work now.

我的意思是，我肯定写过一本书，如果有人有手机，所有问题都能解决了。

I mean, I'm sure I've written a book where everything could be solved if somebody had a cell phone.

你可以浪漫化那些现在根本不会被视为浪漫的事物。

You can romanticize things that wouldn't necessarily be romantic now.

但它又足够现代，让你的角色能够以我们熟悉的方式思考、渴望和追求生活。

But it's modern enough that you can have your characters think and and and and desire and and want to live a life in ways that are familiar.

我的意思是，如果你回溯到中世纪之类的时代，我认为当时世界中的宗教性和神秘感已经基本消失了。

What I mean by that is if you go say all the way back to medieval times or something, there is a religiosity and mysticism to the world I think was largely gone.

所以，是的，价值观是不同的。

So yes, the values are different.

人们更常去教堂。

People more church going.

有很多方面都不同了，但人们不再把这个世界看作一个如此神秘的地方。

There are lot of things different, but people didn't see this world as quite this mystic place anymore.

因此，我可以赋予我的角色一些特质，比如本尼迪克特·布里奇顿在书中（我认为在剧集中也是如此）的一个核心特征：他确实因为自己身处一个大家庭，且被人称为‘二号’而感到被贬低。

So I can give things to my characters like one of the main parts of Benedict Bridgerton's characterization in the book and I think also in the show is that he really feels kind of reduced by the fact he's in this big family and people call him number two.

比如，哦，他是第二个孩子。

Like, oh, he's the second one.

我认为这对现代人来说也非常熟悉，如果你来自一个大家庭，就会经常被当作‘某某的弟弟’之类的存在。

And I think that's something that's very familiar to modern people as well if you come from a big family of of just being sort of like, oh, that's so and so's little brother.

就是这种感觉。

That's that kind of thing.

因此，我们可以赋予这些角色特质、希望和梦想，它们本质上仍然令人感到熟悉。

So we can give these these aspects of characterizations and hopes and dreams which are still fundamentally familiar.

所以这正是一个完美的平衡点。

So it's it's a sweet spot.

《布里奇顿》第一季于2020年首播。

The first season of Bridgerton debuted in 2020.

那是十二月。

It's December.

那是疫情第一年的年末。

It's the end of that first year of the pandemic.

你和一位医生住在一起。

You live with a doctor.

圣诞节到了。

Christmas day comes.

这部剧上线了。

This show comes out.

带我回到那一天，回到那一年的最后几周。

Take me back to that day, those last few weeks of the year.

对你来说那是什么感觉？

What was it like for you?

这有多令人惊讶？

How surprising was it?

告诉我那天发生的一切。

Tell me everything that happened.

那是一种难以置信又充满魔力的体验。

It was surreal and magical in every possible way.

我从没想过我们会失败。

I I never thought we were gonna have a flop.

我知道有很多浪漫小说读者一直在期待这样的作品。

I knew there were enough romance readers who were just dying for something like this.

我有没有想过它会达到这样的成就？

Did I think it was gonna do what it did?

不。

No.

我认为没有人会梦想得那么大。

I don't think anybody dreams that big.

很明显，有什么东西正在爆发。

It was obvious that something was exploding.

你是这部剧的顾问制片人。

You're a consulting producer on the series.

这仍然是你与该剧相关的头衔吗？

Is that still your your title vis a vis the show?

是的。

Yes.

这个头衔听起来比实际内容要重要得多。

The title makes it sound like much more than it actually is.

但没错。

But yes.

你是一位咨询制片人。

You're a consulting producer.

这部剧由珊达·兰梅斯主导创作，由珊达·兰梅斯制作。

It it is it is showrun by Shonda Land, produced by Shonda Land.

那感觉怎么样？

What was it like?

而且，当你创造了这些世界、这些角色，然后说，好吧，

And what does it continue to be like to have created these world, these characters, and then be like, okay.

给你们了，大家。

Here you go, everyone.

照顾好我的孩子们。

Take care of my babies.

我说‘照顾好我的孩子们’时一点困难都没有。

I had no trouble with saying take care of my babies.

我知道对一些作家来说，这真的很重要。

I I know for some authors, it's a really big deal.

我这个人，到了一天结束时，关上电脑，他们就消失了。

I'm somebody who, at the end of the day, I shut my computer and they're gone.

我不是那种会梦见角色的人。

I'm not somebody who dreams about characters.

我不会整天想着他们。

I'm not thinking about them all

一整天。

the time.

我非常善于分隔开来。

Very compartmentalized.

当我写完一本书后，除非因为某种原因需要让他们作为配角回归，否则我基本不会再去想这些角色后来怎么样了。

And when I finish a book, I don't really think about what happened to these characters unless I need to bring them back for some reason as secondary characters.

所以，上一本书出版已经过去了十一年。

And so it was eleven years after the last book had come out.

因此，我在很多方面都已经放下了。

So I had already moved on in many ways.

所以这并不难。

So that was not hard.

真正令人着迷且出乎意料的是，我发现自己创作了一部成为文化巨无霸的作品，真正进入了国际流行文化，人们一提到‘这太《布里奇顿》了’，就知道你在说什么。

What is really fascinating and what was unexpected was to have found myself having authored something that turned into this cultural juggernaut and really entered the international zeitgeist where people can say, oh, that's so Bridgerton.

而且你知道他们指的是什么。

And and you know what they mean.

连《辛普森一家》都拿它来恶搞了。

And like, they spoofed it on The Simpsons.

《辛普森一家》里还出现了‘隧道镇’，这

They had Tunnelton on The Simpsons, which

当你知道某样东西会永存时，就是这种时刻。

That's that's when you know something's gonna be forever.

什么

What

我来这儿的路上才得知，它被纳入了《木偶秀》的新重启版中。

I found out in the car coming over here is that it's on the new reboot of The Muppet Show.

真的吗？

Really?

穿着假发的猪。

Pigs in wigs.

好吧。

Alright.

这挺不错的。

That's pretty good.

我肯定你每季都会看到很多人对从书到屏幕的改编有很多意见。

I'm sure you see every season there are lots of people that have so many opinions about changes from books to screen.

我想知道，作为作者，而且again，你出版最后一本书和剧集播出之间有很长的间隔，有没有哪些改编对你这个原始创作者来说特别有意义？

I'm wondering, as an author, and and again, there's been this huge gap between when you published the last book and when the show came out, have there been any changes that have been particularly meaningful for you as the person who generated this all?

当然，最有意义的决定是采用有意识的多元种族选角。

Certainly, the most meaningful one was the decision to use color conscious casting.

很多人称之为色盲选角，但那并不准确。

And a lot of people refer to it as color blind casting, but that's not that's not accurate.

色盲选角是指你面对每一个角色时，仅仅根据演员的才华来选择。

Color blind casting would be where you just you approach each role and you just pick somebody based on their talents.

如果他们采用色盲选角，比如《布里奇顿》中的角色可能看起来根本不像有血缘关系。

If they've done color blind casting, for example, the Bridgertons might not look like they could possibly be genetically related.

相反，他们采用了有色意识选角，希望打造一个多元种族且更具包容性的演员阵容，并且对每个角色的选角都进行了深入思考。

Instead, they did color conscious casting where they wanted to have a multiracial and much more inclusive cast, and they thought very deeply about who they were gonna cast where.

我非常喜欢这一点。

And I love it.

但这并不是我写书时的方式。

That's not how I wrote the books.

我不记得在书中明确指定过任何角色的种族，但我认为很显然他们被设定为白人。

I don't think I specified anybody's race in the book, but I think it's fairly well implied that they were white.

我并不是一个特别注重细节的作者，也许这反而有所帮助。

I'm not a terribly descriptive author and maybe that helped.

香达曾经对我说过一件事，让我深受触动，她说她读这些书的时候，从未感到被排斥。

One thing that Shonda said to me once, which really touched me was that she said when she was reading the books, she never felt excluded.

她从未觉得自己无法在故事中看到自己的影子，这让我非常感动。

She never felt like she couldn't see herself in the story, which meant a lot to me that she said that.

但再说一遍，书中并没有像剧集那样具有多样性。

But again, the books don't have the same diversity that the show has.

我非常高兴他们找到了一种方式，让这部剧在一个更多人能在故事中看到自己的世界中诞生。

And I am thrilled that they found a way to do this, to make it a show in a world where more people can see themselves in the story.

我知道他们一定会做点什么，因为这是Shondaland的作品。

I knew they were gonna do something because it's Shondaland.

他们不会拍那种全员白人的剧集。

They don't they don't do shows where everybody's all white.

我想，好吧。

And I thought, okay.

要么他们会采用我之前提到的色盲选角，但我对这种方式并不热衷。

Well, either they're gonna go color blind casting like what I talked about, which I wasn't thrilled about.

整个布里顿家族的核心之一就是他们看起来都相似，诸如此类。

Part of the whole Bridgerton family thing is that they all look alike and that sort of thing.

或者我以为他们会改变剧情，加入更多与真实创伤和种族主义历史相关的 angst 元素。

Or I thought they were gonna change up the plots in a way to introduce more like angst that has to do with the very real traumas and a history of racism.

或者殖民主义，或者

Or colonialism or

是的。

Yeah.

把更多这方面的内容带进来。

Bring more of that in.

但他们找到了一种完全不同的方式，那就是探讨一个真实的歷史问题：夏洛特女王是否具有混血背景？

Instead, they found something entirely different, which was to take this very real historical question, which is, was queen Charlotte of mixed race?

而且我们确实知道她肯定有一些非洲血统。

And and just to address that, we know she definitely had some African ancestry.

这在她的家谱中是明确存在的。

That's just there in her family tree.

但我们不知道她是否在外观上表现出混血特征，这一点我们永远无从得知。

What we don't know is that if she presented as biracial in any way, and we'll never know that.

但我们也知道，如果她确实以混血身份出现，那也并非被刻意强调或接受的。

But we also know that if she did present as biracial in any way, it was not something that they were playing up or accepting.

因此，剧集创作者克里斯·范·杜森、香达以及所有人，香达·兰斯说，好吧。

And so Chris Van Dusen, the creator of the show and and Shonda and everybody, Shonda Lance said, okay.

如果她确实以混血身份出现，那会怎样？

Well, what if she did definitely present as biracial?

如果这种身份被接受和认可，历史又会如何不同？

And what if that was accepted and recognized and how would might that have changed history?

于是他们想到了这个点子：将故事背景设定在肤色进入这个上流社会世界之后的一代，这又会如何改变一切？

And so that's how they got the idea to start the show one generation beyond the introduction of of color into this high society world and what how might that have changed it?

所以你们一开场就展现了一个与真实历史不同的世界，但没人说这是在上历史课。

And so you just open with the world being different than it really was, but nobody said it's a history lesson.

我认为这非常重要，而这是我从未需要去了解的事情。

And I think it's just so important and it's something that I never had to know about.

我认为特权的定义之一，就是那些你从来不必去思考的事情。

I think the definition one of the definitions of privilege is really all the things that you never have to think about.

我根本不是出身于英国贵族世家。

I don't come from British aristocratic stock by any sense.

我甚至都不是英国血统。

I don't even come from British stock.

但当我观看时代剧时，剧中人物看起来足够像我，让我能从中看到自己的影子。

But when I watch a period drama, the people look enough like me that I can see myself in it.

我羞于承认，我从未想过那些无法看到自己身影的人。

And I'm ashamed to say I never thought about all the people who couldn't.

而《布里奇顿》突然让一位身着礼服的女主角来自印度南部，我最亲密的朋友奇特拉几乎哭着给我打电话说：我从未在这些剧中看到过自己。

And with Bridgerton, suddenly the heroine in the ball gown comes from a Southern Indian state and one of my closest friends Chitra calls me up practically crying saying, I never got to see myself in these things.

你才会意识到这有多么重要。

And you realize how important it is.

因为这是一个关于幸福结局的故事，尤其是如此。

Because it's a story about happy endings, especially.

而拥有一个能让人们看到与自己相似的角色被描绘成充满喜悦、幸福与爱的故事，而非仅仅聚焦于创伤的地方，是多么重要。

And having a place where people can see somebody like them depicted where it's a story about joy and happiness and love and not just about the trauma of whatever happened.

我觉得这太棒了，非常感谢肖兰德让这一切成为现实。

And I think it's wonderful, and I'm very grateful to Shondaland for making it happen.

每当一位作者、艺术家或任何类型的创作者参与一部流行作品时，我总是很好奇他们如何与世界互动。

Whenever an author or an artist, a creator of any sort is involved in something popular, I'm always very curious about the way that they have to interact or interface with the world.

我猜你有很多粉丝，他们最初是通过这本书认识你的。

I imagine you had a lot of fans who just knew you from the book.

但一旦你进入奈飞的世界，就会迎来另一层可能更强烈的粉丝群体，这与《布里奇顿》息息相关。

And once you ascend into the Netflix plane, you have a whole other possibly more intense level of fandom that is associated with Bridgerton.

你在应对不同类型的反馈和与各种人的互动时，觉得是好事还是难事呢？

Have you found it wonderful, difficult to navigate the different kinds of feedback and people that people's voices that you have to interact with?

‘很棒’和‘困难’这两个词都挺贴切的。

Wonderful and difficult are both good words for that.

大部分事情都很棒。

Most everything is wonderful.

有些粉丝群体确实非常狂热，有些人甚至把自己当成特定情侣的忠实粉丝。

Some of the the fandoms are are pretty intense, and some of it is just like you people, like, consider themselves like fans of specific couples.

所以第二季的粉丝叫Camthony，第三季是Pollan，第四季是Benify。

So the season two fans are Camthony, this season three is Pollan, and then season four is Benify.

你很少看到Simon和Daphne的组合。

And you don't see as many Simon and and Daphne ones.

好像是，我不叫Diamond？

Was like, I don't Diamond?

我记不太清名字了，但就是这三组粉丝，他们有时候会互相对立。

I I can't remember the but it's really these three sets and they like go to war sometimes.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

他们简直让人惊叹。

And you just they have to be like, wow.

好吧。

Okay.

还有一些人会对剧中的某些情节感到生气。

And then there are some people they get angry about something the show does.

另一件有趣的事情是，有些人对书中被改动的内容感到非常愤怒。

And another thing that's interesting is that there are some who get very angry about certain things that have been changed from the books.

而我没想到的是，有些人会对我说出如此激烈的言辞。

And what I didn't expect was the level of vitriol some of them will point toward me.

是的。

Yeah.

这正是我好奇的地方。

That's that's what I'm curious about.

是的，确实有人声称她只是为了钱才参与其中。

And yeah, there is that people saying she's just in it for the money.

她只关心自己的薪酬。

She only cares about her paycheck.

这其中很大一部分是因为某个角色从男性改成了女性，从而开启了同性恋关系的可能性。

And a lot of this is about one of the characters has been changed from a man to a woman, which is opening the door for a lesbian relationship.

坦白说，你知道吗？对于所有指责我出卖粉丝、只为赚钱的人，我不明白，当你把电视剧中的异性恋关系改成同性恋关系并以此牟利时，这到底算什么？

And honestly, you know, for all the people who are accusing me of of selling out fans and just doing for a paycheck, I don't know when you take a heterosexual relationship in a television show and make it into a homosexual relationship in the television show and do it for money.

我不认为你是为了钱才这么做的。

I don't think you do that for money.

我不认为你从这件事中赚了更多钱。

I don't think you're making more money off that.

我认为你这么做是因为你想讲述一个不同的故事。

I think you do it because you you want to tell a different story.

你已经当了很长时间的言情作家了。

You have been a romance writer for quite a while now.

你谈过你刚起步时的情况。

You talked about what it was like when you first started.

我们现在正处于这样一个时代：尽管十年前、二十年前它就已经很成功了，但如今它真的达到了一个令人惊叹的境地。

We are in a moment right now where as successful as it was a decade, a couple decades ago, it really is an amazing place right now.

你有这么多子类型正在蓬勃发展，比如 romantasy，它本身就是一种子类型。

You have all these subgenres that are just really thriving, whether it's romantasy, which is its own subgenre.

仅在2026年这一年，由于激烈的改编竞争，酷儿冰球爱情这一子类型就已经开始兴起。

Already this year in 2026, we've seen, because of the heated rivalry adaptation, the queer hockey romance subgenre start to thrive.

你身边有像艾米莉·亨利、泰勒·詹金斯·里德、贾斯敏·吉洛里这样的畅销作家，还有其他许多人。

You have, alongside you, hit authors like Emily Henry and Taylor Jenkins Reid and and Jasmine Guillory and a bunch of other people.

作为一名在这个领域深耕已久并取得成功的作家，你现在对此有何感受？

As a person who has been in the genre for a while and has succeeded, how does it feel to you right now in this moment?

这真的非常了不起。

It's it's pretty remarkable.

我的意思是，从一开始，现在是二月，我们有了《布里奇顿》。

I mean, to have the beginning of it's what well, we I guess it's February now, but we have Bridgerton.

我们在度假时遇到的人，都在讨论《对手》。

We had people we meet on vacation and he did rivalry.

看到这一切，真是令人难以置信。

I mean, that's incredible to see all that.

而且，你知道，还有更多作品即将推出。

And, you know, there and there's more coming.

所以这真的太棒了。

So it's really wonderful.

但让我感到好奇的是，除了我之外，这一热潮并没有太多延伸到历史言情小说领域。

But what what's been kind of curious to me is that except for me, this boom has not really extended toward historical romance that much.

我不太确定原因是什么。

And I'm not entirely certain why.

我有一部分想法是，天啊，希望不是因为他们读了《布里奇顿》之后说，我不喜欢这种风格。

Part of me is thinking like, gosh, I hope it's not that they're picking up a Bridgerton novel and saying, well, I don't like this.

我不会再碰这类书了。

I'm not doing anything again.

但我不认为是这样，因为我的数据显示，读过《布里奇顿》的人大多会读完全部系列。

But I I don't think that's it because my data seems to show me that people who come to the Bridgerton novels read most of them.

而且他们很喜欢我写的那些书。

And a lot of my books, they're liking that.

但不知为何，他们却没有转向其他作者的作品。

And for some reason, they're not moving on to other authors.

因此，我实际上一直在尝试解决这个问题。

And so I actually have been trying to do something about that.

我创办了一个读书会，叫JQ Editions，它既是读书会，也是订阅盒子，所有内容都由我亲自精选。

I started a book club called JQ Editions, which is well, part book club, part subscription box where it's all it's hand selected by me.

每两个月，你都会收到一份我心目中最佳历史言情小说的精选书单。

So you're getting a curated selection every other month of what I consider the best of the best historical romances.

其中包含新书、近期的精品，以及我称之为现代体裁经典的著作。

And it is a mix of new books, recent gems, and what are my I'm calling classics of the modern genre.

我们还为这些书设计了精美的封面。

And we're doing them up in beautiful covers.

现在出版界另一大趋势是，每本书都有特别版。

That's the other big thing in publishing now is that everything has a special edition.

封面、喷绘书边，没错。

The covers, the sprayed edges Yes.

扉页和衬页。

The end papers.

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

是的

Yeah.

这一直很有趣。

It's it's been fun.

但除了我之外，没人关注历史言情小说。

But nobody in historical romance was getting it except for me.

所以现在我正在把它提供给

So now I'm I'm giving it to

所以你在为你的子类型推广吗？

other So you're stumping for your for your subgenre?

是的。

I am.

我正在极力为我的子类型推广，努力吸引人们关注。

I am stumping so hard for my subgenre and trying to get people in there.

但读者们确实会跟我说，你知道吗，看完《布里奇顿》之后该读什么？

But but people readers do say to me, you know, oh, what should I read after Bridgerton?

现在我可以这么说。

And now I can say this.

给你。

Here you go.

在我们对话即将结束之际，我想向你提出一组特别的问题。

As we approach the end of our conversation, I wanna turn to a very particular set of questions we have for you.

十多年来，《纽约时报书评》每周都会向作者询问一组关于他们阅读习惯的固定问题。

For more than a decade, every week, the New York Times Book Review has asked authors a recurring set of questions about their reading, about their reading lives.

好的。

Okay.

买这本书。

Part of a series that we call Buy the Book.

买这本书。

Buy the Book.

朱莉娅，你准备好了。

Julia, you are ready.

我希望如此。

I hope so.

好的。

Okay.

以下是几个‘买这本书’的问题给你。

Here are some buy the book questions for you.

朱莉娅·奎因，你的床头柜上放着什么书？

Julia Quinn, what is on your nightstand?

我床头柜上现在放的是凯特·奎因的《星界图书馆》，她和我没有亲属关系，但是一位很棒的人。

On my nightstand right now is the Astral Library by Kate Quinn, who is no relation, but a wonderful person.

这本书很难描述。

It's a very difficult book to describe.

凯特·奎因以写历史小说闻名。

Kate Quinn is known as a historical fiction author.

这是她首次尝试魔幻现实主义题材，故事中有一个图书馆，本质上是一个具有自我意识的魔法图书馆，能让那些需要逃离生活困境的人——比如遭遇家暴或陷入其他糟糕境况的人——进入他们最爱的书籍中，生活在书页里。

This is her first jump into magical realism where you've got this library that's basically it's a magical library that's kind of its own sentient being and allows people who kind of need to escape things in their lives like maybe an abusive husband or some other bad situation to come in and live their lives within the pages of a favorite book.

而星界图书馆本身正遭受外部势力的围攻，我们的勇敢女主角必须拯救这座星界图书馆。

And the Astral Library itself is under kind of a siege from outside forces and our plucky heroine has to save at the astral library.

我喜欢勇敢的女主角。

I love a plucky heroine.

是的。

Yes.

人们可能会对您书架上的哪本书感到惊讶？

What book might people be surprised to find on your shelves?

我会选《银河系漫游指南》，我非常喜爱这本书。

I'm gonna go with the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which I adore.

实际上，也不是每个人都会感到惊讶，因为细心阅读过《追求布里奇顿先生》的读者会发现。

And actually not everybody would be surprised because eagle eyed readers of Romancing Mr.

在《布里奇顿先生》——即科林和佩内洛普的故事——中，有一处向《银河系漫游指南》致敬的细节，书中有人问：‘人生究竟有多少伟大的谜题呢？’

Bridgerton, which is Colin and Penelope's story, will spot a little homage to The Hitchhiker's Guide in the book, which is somebody says, how many great mysteries of life are there anyway?

科林回答：‘我不知道。'

And Colin says, I don't know.

42？

42?

我懂这个梗。

I get that reference.

我太喜欢这个了。

I love that.

我特别喜欢，作为一位摄政时期历史言情小说作者，我居然能把《银河系漫游指南》写进了我的一本书里。

And I love that I, the Regency historical romance author, managed to put Hitchhiker's Guide into one of my books.

真狡猾，真狡猾。

Sneaky, sneaky.

朱莉娅，你最喜欢哪本几乎没人听说过的书？

Julia, what is your favorite book that no one else has really heard of?

我会说是一本叫《迷失在原地：在郊区荒诞成长》的回忆录，作者是马克·萨尔兹曼。

I would say it is a memoir called Lost in Place, Growing Up Absurd in Suburbia by Mark Salzman, his name is.

这本书是我收到的一份礼物，因为开篇段落提到他写道：我告诉父母，我愿意放弃在东岭初中就读的机会。

And that was given to me as a gift because the opening paragraph talks about him saying, I informed my parents I was willing to renounce my spot at East Ridge Junior High School.

我说过，我上过东岭初中。

And I said, I went to East Ridge Junior High School.

所以这个故事发生在我家乡，他上的正是我读过的学校，这就是我收到这本书的原因，我留着它，因为这是一个关于在特定时代和地点成长的精彩故事，与我的经历非常接近。

So this is set in my hometown and he's actually going to the same schools I went to and that's why I got it and I kept it because it is just this amazing story of growing up in a very specific time and place which is very close to my time and place.

这正是我的地方，时代也非常接近，书写得如此优美、幽默又真挚，我实际上已经多次把它作为礼物送人。

It is my place, very close to my time and it's just it's so beautifully written and so funny and heartfelt, and I have given it as a gift actually many, many times.

朱莉娅，这引出了我的下一个问题：你收到过的最好的书是什么？

Julia, that segues into my next question, which is what is the best book you've ever received as a gift?

这个问题很难回答，因为经常有人送我书，但我认为最好的是史蒂夫·克卢格的《最后的夏天》。

So this is a tough one because I get people get me books a lot, but I think it was Last Days of Summer by Steve Kluger.

我总是得停下来想一想书名里有没有‘the’，但我觉得就叫《最后的夏天》就行。

And I'm always having to stop and think if there's a the, but I don't I think it's just Last Days of Summer.

这本书其实是来自哈珀柯林斯出版社的一位编辑送我的礼物。

And that was a gift actually from somebody at Harper Collins, my publishing house.

是一位编辑，不是我的编辑，另一位编辑觉得我会喜欢，就寄给了我，她完全说对了。

An editor, not my editor, different editor just thought I would love it and she sent it and she was absolutely right.

这也是我送给很多人的一本书。

And that is another book I've I have given as a gift to a lot of people too.

这是一部书信体小说，背景设定在二战时期的布鲁克林，主角是一个名叫乔伊·马古利斯的十二三岁男孩，书中包含了电报、成人礼邀请函和信件等，这是一本既极其幽默又直击人心的作品。

It's an epistolary novel set during World War two set in Brooklyn about this, I think it's 12 or 13 year old boy named Joey Margulies who's and and so you've got like telegrams and bar mitzvah programs and letters and and and it's one of those books that is so so so funny and yet will just punch you in the gut also.

我大约一个半月前刚读过那本书信体小说《通信者》。

I just read, you know, a month and a half ago that epistolary novel, The Correspondent.

我已经很久没读过书信体小说了。

It had been a while since I'd read an epistolary novel.

我总是忘记这类小说有其独特而特别的魅力。

I always forget how they have their own special and unique delights.

如果做得好，它们绝对精彩至极。

When done well, they are absolutely fabulous.

为了把话题拉回我的浪漫小说领域，因为我讨厌总是推荐自己体裁之外的书，但其实有很多优秀的浪漫小说都带有书信体元素。

And and just to bring us back to my genre of romance, because I hate being the author who's recommending things outside her genre all the time, but there are many many good romances that have epistolary aspects to it.

尤其是当代浪漫小说，里面常常有大量的短信交流。

Especially now with contemporary romance, you get lots of texting in there.

是的。

Mhmm.

是的。

Mhmm.

而且它们总是很有趣，我总是希望自己也能写这样的作品。

And they're always fun and I I'm always wishing I could do it in mine.

朱莉娅，你经常反复阅读哪些书？

Julia, what books do you find yourself returning to again and again?

其实我不是那种会重读的人。

I'm not much of a rereader actually.

我觉得对于这个问题，我可能是不合适的人选。

I I think I'm I'm the wrong person with that question.

好吧。

Will Alright.

说

Say

你可以说‘过’。

You can say pass.

嗯，那也没关系。

Well, that's alright.

我要说的是，当我给孩子们读书的时候，如果一本书我读了两遍——每个孩子各一遍，那我就知道这是一本好书。

I I will say that when I was reading to my kids as they were growing up, you knew it was a great book if I read it aloud twice, one to each child.

所以我多年来一直在他们学校负责组织图书展。

And and so I I ran the book fair actually at their school for many years.

所以当人们问我推荐书籍时，我会说，我给两个孩子都读过这本书。

And so when people would ask me to recommend books, I'd say like, I read this one aloud twice.

比如《幻象 Tollbooth》吗？

So like the phantom tollbooth?

我们说的是哪本书？

Like, what are we talking about?

我给两个孩子都读过《城市之光》。

I did the city of ember twice.

我读过加里·D·施密特的《星期三战争》两遍。

I did the Wednesday wars by Gary D.

我读过加里·D·施密特的《星期三战争》两遍，这真是一本绝佳的书。

Schmidt twice, which is just a fabulous book.

我读过《卡普尔尼娅·泰特的进化》两遍。

I did the evolution of Calpurnia Tate twice.

朱莉娅，有没有哪部经典小说是你最近才第一次读的？

Julia, are there any classic novels that you only just recently read for the first time?

没有。

Not really.

我得说，我确实有一批书列在清单上，还没读过。

I I will say I do have some that I I have on my list that I need to read.

这将是我在本播客中最尴尬的时刻。

And this is this so this will be my most embarrassing moment for this podcast.

我从来没读过《哈姆雷特》。

I have never actually read Hamlet.

好的。

Okay.

不知怎么的，它从来没出现在我们的清单上。

Somehow and it never came up on our our list.

你知道，当我上初中和高中时，每年都会布置一部莎士比亚戏剧，但不知怎么的，《哈姆雷特》从来不是被布置的那部。

You know, when I was in junior high and high school, they would assign one Shakespeare play every year, and somehow Hamlet was never the one that was assigned.

我参加过戏剧社。

I I was in theater club.

我演过《终成眷属》。

I was in I think, All's Well That Ends Well.

所以我演过不少莎士比亚戏剧。

So I've I've been in Shakespeare plays.

我读过很多，但就是没读过《哈姆雷特》。

I've read lots and somehow I never read Hamlet.

它就在我清单上，我确实觉得我应该去读一读。

That I have that that's on my list of things that I actually I feel I should do.

你看过它的演出吗？

Have you seen it performed?

其实没在舞台上看过。

Not on the stage, actually.

好的。

Alright.

只要你看过演出，那就没问题了。

Well, long as you see it performed then, you're good.

如果你看了精彩的演出，就不必非得读原著。

You don't have to read it if you see a good performance.

好的。

Okay.

我最近在伦敦看了乔纳森·贝利主演的《理查二世》，而且

I did go see Richard the second recently with Jonathan Bailey in London and

哦，是吗。

Oh, well.

太棒了。

It was great.

我们都喜欢乔纳森·贝利。

We all love Jonathan Bailey.

我还设法去了后台，那真是不错。

I managed to get go backstage too, which was Uh-huh.

太惊人了。

Amazing.

是的。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

最后一个关于书的问题。

Last by the book question.

朱莉娅，描述一下你理想中的阅读体验。

Julia, describe your ideal reading experience.

我是一个随时随地都会读书的人。

I am somebody who will read anytime, anywhere.

我不需要什么理想的阅读体验。

I don't need an ideal reading experience.

你总会发现我在任何能读书的地方都在读，真的。

You will find me reading anywhere I can, truly.

你有没有那么一点点怀念，曾经只有你和你的书，还有你的书迷的时光？

Is there any part of you at all that misses when it was just you and your books and the fans of your books?

而《布里奇顿》如今引发的热潮，是否让你觉得这件事不再那么属于你个人了？

And that the explosion that has happened around Bridgerton has just made it a little less your own thing?

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

这太棒了。

This is great.

这真是太棒了。

This this is great.

太好了。

It's wonderful.

我和演员们不一样。

And and I'm not like the cast.

比如，我不会被人认出来。

Like, I don't get recognized.

我被认出来的次数屈指可数，而且那都是在某种与书籍相关的场合。

I can count on one hand the times I've been recognized where I was not in some sort of book related place.

像在ALA大会这样的地方随便走走，那不算。

Walking around like the ALA convention, like, doesn't count.

是的。

Yeah.

所以不像演员们那样，不得不大幅改变他们的日常生活。

So it's not like the cast who have had to change their daily lives in a big way.

是的。

Yeah.

所以没有。

So no.

这一切都太棒了。

This is all wonderful.

我能够积极参与那些对我意义重大的政治和慈善事业。

I get to be active and and passionate about political causes and philanthropic causes that that mean a lot to me.

我还要特别指出，我能这样做的一部分原因，是因为这部剧和我的书籍让我经济上非常有保障。

And I I very much wanna point out also that part of the reason I can do that is because the show and and my books have made me very financially secure.

所以，如果我疏远了一些读者，我也能接受。

So if I do alienate some of my readers, I'm okay.

我绝不会做任何贬低那些觉得自己无法发声的作者的事情。

And and I would never want to do anything to put down authors who don't feel they can speak out.

是的。

Yeah.

因为他们可能需要尽可能多地卖书，只是为了养活孩子。

Because they may they have they may be needing to sell as many books as they can just to feed their kids.

所以，并不是每个人都有这样的条件或特权，能够就对他们至关重要的问题发声。

And so not everybody is in the position or has the privilege where they can speak out about issues that are very important to them.

朱莉娅·奎因，非常感谢您做客《纽约时报书评》播客。

Julia Quinn, thank you so much for coming on to the Book Review podcast.

很高兴您能来。

It's been a delight to have you on.

谢谢。

Thank you.

非常感谢您邀请我。

Thank you so much for having me.

这是我与作家朱莉娅·奎因关于《布里奇顿》书籍和剧集的愉快对话。

That was my delightful conversation with author Julia Quinn about Bridgerton book and show.

我是《纽约时报书评》编辑吉尔伯特·克鲁兹。

I'm Gilbert Cruz, editor of the New York Times Book Review.

谢谢收听。

Thanks for listening.