关于马斯克 第一集：天才

想知道利率上涨到底会怎样影响你的房贷吗？

Wanna understand exactly how interest rate rises will impact your mortgage?

或者纽约市是怎么获得新鲜蔬菜的？

Or how New York City gets fresh produce?

或者FTX在彻底崩溃之前到底发生了什么？

Or exactly what on earth was going on over at FTX before the whole thing collapsed?

每周两次，我们会邀请最合适的嘉宾来回答这类问题，帮你了解金融、经济、商业和市场领域最重要的事件。

Twice a week, we sit down with the perfect guest to answer these sort of questions and understand what's going on with the biggest stories in finance, economics, business, and markets.

我是特蕾西·阿拉韦。

I'm Tracy Allaway.

我是吉尔·韦森塔尔。

And I'm Jill Weisenthal.

我们是彭博《所有想法》播客的主持人。

And we are the hosts of Bloomberg's All Thoughts Podcast.

无论你在哪里收听播客，都能找到我们。

Look us up wherever you get your podcasts.

来自彭博的《所有想法》播客。

The All Thoughts Podcast from Bloomberg.

我是梅丽莎·杰尔钦，《她怎么了》播客的主持人。

I'm Melissa Jeltsin, host of the What Happened to Her podcast.

我们以桑德拉·伯奇莫尔的故事开启本季，这起案件被警方定性为暴风雪中的自杀。

We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police wrote off as a suicide in a snowstorm.

她的家人从未接受这个结论，而他们怀疑的那个人佩戴着警徽。

Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge.

你永远不知道那个恶魔是谁，因为他戴着

You never know who that devil is because he's wearing

伪装。

a disguise.

有时是警察制服。

Sometimes it's a police uniform.

你可以通过iHeart True Crime Plus订阅，在Apple Podcasts上独家收听所有剧集，完全无广告。

And you can get access to all episodes a 100% ad free with an iHeart true crime plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

仅限iHeart true crime plus订阅用户收听。

Available only to iHeart true crime plus subscribers.

所以别等了。

So don't wait.

快去Apple Podcasts，搜索iHeart true crime plus，今天就订阅。

Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart true crime plus, and subscribe today.

有成千上万的播客教你如何变得更好。

There are thousands of podcasts that can tell you how to better yourself.

《和Kyle Bru一起变糟》可不是那种播客。

Get Worse With Kyle Bru is not one of those podcasts.

所以，如果你感兴趣的是减肥、去心理咨询、开始用肽类、设定界限、服用补充剂、让自己变得更好、获得心理闭合，

So if you're interested in getting thinner, going to therapy, starting peptides, setting boundaries, taking supplements, making you better, getting closure,

那我建议你去听听别的播客。

then I would humbly recommend other podcasts.

但如果你感兴趣的是敲诈、爱情轰炸、克隆自己，或者复仇，那我们这里有点小东西，正适合你这样坏心眼的人。

If you're interested in blackmail, love bombing, cloning yourself, or getting revenge, then we've got a little something something for a dastardly individual like you.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你收听播客的地方，收听《Get Worse with Kyle Proud》。

Listen to get worse with Kyle Proud on

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你收听播客的地方收听。

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是莱西·莫斯利，作家、演员、单口喜剧演员、创作者，也是《Scam Goddess》播客的主持人。

I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand up comedian, creator, and host of scam goddess podcast.

这个真实犯罪喜剧播客，讲的都是抢劫、诈骗，

The true crime comedy podcast, all about robbery, fraud,

以及那些干这些事的人。

and those who practice it.

每周我都会请来一位很棒的嘉宾。

Each week, I bring on an amazing guest.

哦，我骗了他们。

Oh, I scammed them.

什么？

What?

我可以跟你聊一个小时。

I could talk to you for an hour.

你是个天生的聊天高手，

You're a generational yapper

跟我一样。

like me.

所以我才

That's why I

把聊天变成了工作。

had to make yapping a job.

现在你可以在YouTube上看到我的完整节目。

And now you can catch full episodes of my

在YouTube上。

show on YouTube.

现在就可以在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你收听播客的地方开始收听《Scam Goddess》。

Start listening to scam goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

骗子女神。

Scam goddess.

我是沃尔特·艾萨克森。

I'm Walter Isaacson.

欢迎收听《建造者》，这是我新推出的系列访谈节目，邀请的都是塑造我们未来的最重要的人物。

Welcome to The Builders, my new series of interviews featuring the most consequential minds shaping our future.

我们这个系列的第一位嘉宾是埃隆·马斯克。

Our series starts with Elon Musk.

但在那之前，我们先在这个频道重播我们广受好评的节目《马斯克》。

But in anticipation, we're re airing our critically acclaimed show On Musk in this feed.

这个节目最初是在2023年12月播出的。

The show originally aired in December 2023.

一共有四集，讲述了我为写他的传记而跟随埃隆多年的幕后故事。

It has four episodes of backstories from the years I spent following Elon while writing his biography.

先听听这个，然后敬请期待《建造者》。

Give it a listen, then stay tuned for The Builders.

我觉得你会喜欢的。

I think you'll like it.

怎么

How

你看了多少次火箭发射？

How many rocket launches did you see?

我们可以聊聊去观看一些发射的经历。

We can talk about visiting some of the launches.

博卡奇卡，德克萨斯州，位于该州的最南端，就在布朗斯维尔旁边，靠近墨西哥湾。

Boca Chica, Texas is at the very southern tip of the state, just beyond Brownsville on the Gulf Of Mexico.

就在马斯克房子所在的那条街上，我住在一个小小的Airstream拖车里，洗衣有点麻烦，洗澡也不太方便。

And right on the street where Musk's house was, I had this little Airstream trailer, which was a little tough on the laundry, and it's kinda hard to shower.

但过了一段时间，这让我感觉自己成了这个奇怪场景的一部分——在地球上这片干枯的灌木地，周围有几个满是蚊子的沼泽和几栋废弃的老房子，这里却是地球上人类前往火星的基地。

But after a while, it made me feel part of this weird scene that here on Earth in this parched scrubland with a few swamps filled with mosquitoes and these old abandoned tract houses is the base from which people on planet Earth are gonna get to Mars.

而且我知道马斯克即将进行星舰的发射，那是有史以来最大的火箭，他正等着在博卡奇卡发射它。

And I knew that Musk was going to do the launch of Starship, by far the biggest rocket ever made, and he was waiting to launch it in Boca Chica.

我凌晨五点还在那个Airstream拖车里。

And I'm in the Airstream trailer at 5AM.

他就在附近的房子里，保安把我们叫醒，带我们去控制室准备倒计时。

He's in the house nearby, and the security guards wake us up, and they take us to the control room for the countdown.

倒计时数到十、九、八，他点了点头，他们就发射了。

And the countdown goes ten, nine, eight, and he nods, and they launch it.

火箭升空了一分钟、两分钟。

And it goes up for a minute, two minutes.

他一直在看着。

He's watching it.

他跑到外面的甲板上，因为能从远处看到火箭，然后又跑回屋里。

He runs outside onto the deck because you can see it in the distance, and then runs back inside.

最后，大约两分半钟后，你开始注意到有两台猛禽发动机，也许现在有三台出了问题。

And finally, after about two and a half minutes, you start noticing that two of the raptors and maybe three now, there's a problem.

他们意识到火箭会偏离轨道，所以不得不发送信号在海上把它引爆。

And they realize it's going to go off course, and they have to send a signal to blow it up over the water.

否则，可能会出大问题。

Otherwise, it might do something really bad.

所以他们都看向马斯克，他给了他们引爆的信号。

So they all look at Musk, and it gives them the signal to blow it up.

最后，他说，好吧。

And at the end, he says, okay.

这里有几件事我们学到了。

Here's a few things we've learned.

看看我们能多快再试一次。

Let's see how fast we can try it again.

我叫埃文·拉特利夫，这是《马斯克传》与沃尔特·艾萨克森的对话。

My name is Evan Ratliff, and this is On Musk with Walter Isaacson.

我是一名记者和作家，最近，我在新奥尔良与艾萨克森会面了几天。

I'm a journalist and author, and recently, I met up with Isaacson over a few days in New Orleans.

任务艰巨。

Tough assignment.

我知道。

I know.

艾萨克森就住在那。

Isaacson lives there.

那是他的家乡，也是他在东海岸当了数十年大牌记者和编辑后回归的地方。

It's his hometown and the place he returned to after decades as a big time reporter and editor on the East Coast.

如今，他是那种通过智力改变世界的人的传记作者。

Nowadays, he's a biographer of the kind of people who alter the world through the force of their intellect.

他写过列奥纳多·达·芬奇、本·富兰克林、阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦、开创性生物学家詹妮弗·杜德纳，可能最著名的是史蒂夫·乔布斯。

He's written about Leonardo da Vinci, Ben Franklin, Albert Einstein, the pioneering biologist Jennifer Doudna, and maybe most famously, Steve Jobs.

我们在庞恰特雷恩湖附近坐下来时，他那本600页的马斯克传记已经出版大约一个月了。

When we sat down near Lake Pontchartrain, his 600 page biography of Musk had been out for about a month.

这本书引发了一千种热议，不仅仅是因为埃隆·马斯克本身就是一台引发热议的机器。

It was a book that launched a thousand hot takes, not least because Elon Musk is himself a hot take launching machine.

但和艾萨克森交谈时，我想尽量穿透噪音，理解这部巨作是如何以及为何诞生的，并透过他的眼睛看到什么让他惊叹，什么让他震惊，以及他如何面对一个成为地球上最富有、最具争议性人物之一，并且在书出版后，有时似乎决心通过鼓励甚至拥抱在线仇恨机器来毁掉自己遗产的传主。

But talking to Isaacson, I wanted to try to get past the noise, if we could, to understand why and how this gargantuan work came about and to see with his eyes what wowed him, what shocked him, and how he reckoned with a subject who became one of the richest and most polarizing men on the planet and who, since the book's release, at times seems determined to scorch his own legacy by encouraging and even embracing the online hate machine.

反犹主义、阴谋论梗图，或者他这个星期碰巧发的任何东西。

You know, antisemitism, conspiracy memes, or whatever he happens to post about this week.

这是我们四集系列的第一集。

This is our first episode of four.

在这一集里，让我们暂时忘掉过去三年里你对埃隆·马斯克的所有了解。

And for this one, for a moment, let's try and forget everything you've learned about Elon Musk over the last, say, three years.

忘掉他在推特上的形象，忘掉他在乌克兰问题上的角色，或者你对他的个人生活的任何了解。

Forget who he is on Twitter, forget his role in Ukraine, or whatever you know about his personal life.

想想那个帮助建立了第一家真正的在线支付公司PayPal的马斯克。

And think about the Musk who helped build the first real online payments company, PayPal.

想想特斯拉——第一款真正面向大众市场的电动汽车，以及SpaceX——第一家将人类送入轨道的私人太空公司。

The first true mass market electric car in Tesla, and the first private space company to put humans into orbit with SpaceX.

让我们看看他的天使一面，这样当我们和艾萨克森谈论他的恶魔时——我们会的——我们就有了一些基础，一些理解，明白为什么他一开始就是如此引人入胜的题材。

Let's look at his better angels so that when we talk with Isaacson about his demons, and we will, we'll have some ballast, some understanding of why he made such an intriguing subject in the first place.

第一集：天才。

Episode one, Genius.

各位先生，我这边咖啡已经准备好了，水也备好了，洗手间就在走廊尽头，我这边已经准备好了。

So, gentlemen, I have, coffee going, water ready, bathroom's down the hall, I'm rolling.

好的。

Alright.

你准备好了吗？

You good?

好的。

Okay.

好的，沃尔特。

Alright, Walter.

很高兴见到你。

It's great to meet you.

你看，我这里有这本书，我在里面放了一些小标记，标记了我想要讨论的内容。

As you can see, I have my copy of the book here, so I put little flags in it for things I wanna talk about.

我觉得我们可能没办法把所有这些问题都讨论完。

I don't think we're gonna get to all of these items.

你读这本书比我读得还好。

You read the book better than I have.

只是想说一下

Just to say

从一个作家到另一个作家，聊得很愉快。

It was good talking one writer to another.

这会很有趣的。

This will be fun.

好，我们先聊聊你是怎么踏上这段过山车之旅的。

Well, let's talk for a second about how you got on this roller coaster.

你能给我讲讲这本书最初是怎么来的吗？

Could you tell me the story of how this book first came about?

就是最初的那个念头，觉得这本书有可能成形的那个瞬间。

The first seed that this this book could be possible.

我和埃隆·马斯克的一个共同朋友给我打电话，他叫安东尼奥·格拉西亚斯。

A mutual friend of mine and Elon Musk gave me a call, Antonio Gracias.

他说，你们应该聊聊。

He said, you all ought to talk.

然后马斯克和我在电话里聊了大约一个半小时，我跟他说了几件事。

And Musk and I talked for about hour and a half or so on the phone, and I said a couple things to him.

我说，我想写一本几乎不同于其他任何书的书，就像博斯韦尔写约翰逊博士那样，我想在你吃饭、思考、开会、和家人在一起的时候都陪在你身边，而且我想在两年的时间里，没有任何事情是不能触及的。

I said, I wanna do a book unlike almost any other book since Boswell did doctor Johnson, which is I wanna be by your side at all times when you're eating, when you're thinking, when you're in a meeting, when you're with your family, and I want for two years to have nothing off limits.

然后他用很低沉的语调说，好吧。

Then a very low monotone, he goes, okay.

然后我说，好的。

And then I go, alright.

嗯，还有一件事。

Well, here's the other thing.

我不希望你对这本书有任何控制权。

I don't want you to have any control over this book.

我甚至不会在出版前给你看。

I'm not even gonna show it to you before it's published.

他说，好的。

He goes, okay.

所以我挺惊讶的，当时我还和一群人在一起。

So I'm pretty surprised, and I was with a group of people.

我是跑去接电话的。

I'd gone off to take the phone call.

等我回来的时候，我正在说话，突然大家就说，天哪。

When I get back, I was talking, and all of a sudden people say, oh my god.

我们都不知道你在写他的传记。

I didn't know you were doing them.

我说，你们什么意思？

I said, what do you mean?

他说，埃隆·马斯克刚发推文说沃尔特在写我的传记。

He said, well, Elon Musk just tweeted out Walter is writing my biography.

我当时就想，哎呀，糟了。

I thought, oh, dear.

看来我现在是骑虎难下了。

I guess I guess I'm committed now.

那这种节奏是怎么来的？

And how did the rhythm of that Mhmm.

怎么演变的？

Evolve?

比如，你是怎么决定什么时候去的？

Like, how did you figure out when you were gonna go?

要谈多少次？

How many conversations you were gonna have?

每隔几周，我就会说，好吧。

Every couple of weeks, I'd say, alright.

我想过去一趟，然后花上十天时间。

I'd like to come out, and I'll spend the next ten days.

他没有日程安排，因为他想掌控自己的时间，所以你永远不知道他会去哪儿。

He doesn't have a scheduler because he wanted to keep control of his own time, so you never know where he's going.

我们有时候一天要去两三个地方，所以我就学会了把所有东西打包进一个过夜包里，带很多T恤，黑色T恤。

We would sometimes do two or three places a day, and so I learned pack everything in one overnight bag, bring lots of T shirts, black T shirts.

大家都穿黑色T恤。

Everybody wears black T shirts.

哦，所以你也开始穿黑色T恤了？

Oh, so you also got into the black T shirt?

然后我就想，好吧。

And so I was like, alright.

所以我会买四五件黑色T恤，几条卡其裤，就这些了。

So I'd get four or five black t shirts, a couple of pairs of khakis, and that would be it.

必须非常轻便。

It would have to be really light.

必须是我能在生产线随身携带的东西，因为他在弗里蒙特检查工厂，然后他转向保安，保安是唯一一个能让事情保持有序的人。

It'd have to be something I'd be carrying with me on the factory line because he'd inspect the factory in Fremont, and then he turned to the security guard who was the one person who kinda kept things on track.

没关系。

It's okay.

现在我们去卡纳维拉尔角。

Now let's go to Cape Canaveral.

我们会坐上他的飞机，到卡纳维拉尔角，然后再去博卡奇卡或奥斯汀，他在那里为特斯拉建造大型超级工厂。

We'd get in his plane, be at Cape Canaveral, then be in Boca Chica or in Austin where he's building the great Gigafactory for Tesla.

所以你只要带上很多T恤和很多内裤，就可以准备好出发了。

So you got a whole lot of t shirts and a whole lot of underwear, and you're ready to go for the ride.

通常和他们一起旅行大约十天后，我的牙膏和内裤就用完了，然后我会说，好吧。

And usually after about ten days of traveling with them, I'd run out of, toothpaste and maybe underwear, and I'd say, okay.

我要休息一下。

I'm gonna take a break.

是不是所有内容都是公开的，还是有时候公司其他部门的高管或其他人会试图说，这个不能公开？

Was absolutely everything on the record, or were there times when some executive from some other part of the company or someone tried to say, this is off the record?

马斯克已经放出话来，我可以随时出现在任何地方。

Musk gave out the word that I could be anywhere at any time.

有几次例外，都是涉及国家机密的简报。

There were a couple of exceptions that were both national security classified briefings.

她当时是在跟米利将军或者中央情报局的人通话，他说我必须离开房间。

She was talking to either general Milley or the CIA in which he said, I had to leave the room.

但有时候他们开会，我会知道有些特斯拉高管会问，沃尔特能不能先出去一下？

But there were times when they would do a meeting, and I would know that some of the Tesla executives would ask, you know, can Walter step out?

比如，他们在决定要不要打造那款两万五千美元的汽车，想跟丰田卡罗拉竞争的时候，他本来不想做。

For example, when they were deciding whether or not to create the $25,000 car that's gonna try to go after the Toyota Corolla, And he had wanted not to do it.

他想直接跳到机器人出租车，就是那种没有方向盘、能自动驾驶的车。

He wanted to go leap ahead to the robotaxi, a car with no steering wheels that would be self driving.

他们当时正在试图说服他。

And they were trying to convince him.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

而且他还让我留在了会议里。

And he let me stay in the meeting.

到艾萨克森开始参加各种会议的时候，马斯克已经是四家公司的董事长、首席执行官或首席技术官了。

By the time Isaacson started sitting in on meetings and everything else, Musk was the chairman, CEO, or chief technology officer of four companies.

后来，他又增加了两家。

Later, he'd add two more.

你可能听过马斯克的一些故事，但这里简单说一下。

You've probably heard parts of Musk's history, but here's the short version.

他出生在南非，1995年就在硅谷起步，创立了一家叫Zip2的公司，有点像早期的MapQuest，是他和弟弟金巴尔一起创办的，靠妈妈的信用卡筹集资金，还靠Jack in the Box的汉堡来维持生活。

Born in South Africa, he'd started in Silicon Valley back in 1995 with a company called Zip two, kind of an early map quest he founded with his brother, Kimball, financed on his mom's credit cards and fueled by endless meals at Jack in the Box.

卖掉Zip2后，他给自己买了一辆迈凯伦，然后把大部分钱投入了x.com，那是一个金融支付平台，后来和另一家公司合并，成了PayPal。

After selling Zip two and buying himself a McLaren, he invested much of the money into x.com, a financial payments platform that eventually combined with another company and became PayPal.

马斯克在PayPal的新合作伙伴把他赶出了公司，但他依然赚得盆满钵满，在硅谷人脉广泛。

Musk's new PayPal partners ousted him from the company, but he still emerged fabulously wealthy and endlessly connected in the valley.

然后，他把这笔财富用在了更宏大的目标上。

He then turned that wealth onto more grandiose goals.

首先是SpaceX，这家火箭公司是围绕马斯克送人类上火星的梦想创立的。

First with SpaceX, a rocket company created around Musk's dream of getting humans to Mars.

然后是特斯拉，它建立在不仅让汽车，而且让我们生活的方方面面都实现电气化的梦想之上。

Then Tesla, built on the dream of electrifying not just cars, but all aspects of our lives.

他还创办了另外两家公司，Neuralink和The Boring Company。

He added a couple of other companies, Neuralink and The Boring Company.

最近，他又成立了一家AI公司，最初叫x AI，当然，他还涉足了Twitter这个潘多拉魔盒。

More recently, he's launched an AI company, first called x AI, and, of course, stuck his head into the Pandora's box that is Twitter.

现在他把这两者合并到了同一个品牌下，就是x。

Now he's combined both of those under one banner, x.

同时拥有并运营这么多公司，数量多得惊人。

It's a staggering amount of companies to own and operate simultaneously.

而且从他频繁乘坐飞机穿梭来看，这不仅仅是开董事会。

And as his plane hopping shows, it's not just board meetings.

马斯克喜欢亲临工厂车间，积极参与工程工作。

Musk likes to be on factory floors and to take an active role in the engineering.

马斯克也有好玩的一面，有鼓舞人心的一面，他经常开玩笑说玩具或者他喜欢的东西。

Musk has also a playful side, an inspirational side, and he often jokes about toys or things he loves.

有一次，他坐在特斯拉的办公桌前，看着一个小车。

And at one point, he's sitting at his desk at Tesla, and he's looking at a small car.

那是金属做的，他看它的底部。

You know, it's made of metal, and he looks at the underside of it.

当然，整个车的底部，包括车轴和底盘，都是一体的。

And, of course, the whole bottom of the car, including the axles and the chassis, is just one piece.

它是用金属铸造的，所以他一直给特斯拉的设计师看，说，为什么我们不能把整个车的底部铸成一体呢？

It's made of cast metal, and so he keeps showing it to the designers at Tesla and say, why can't we just cast the entire underside of the car in one piece?

这需要90个、100个、有时甚至150个部件焊接在一起。

And it's taking 90, a 100, a 150 sometimes components that have to be welded together.

他们说，嗯，没有足够大的压力机来做这个。

And they said, well, there's no press big enough to do that.

他说，让我们开始打电话问问。

He said, let's start calling around.

他们到处打电话，所有那些能制造部件或底盘的公司都说，不行。

And they call around, and all these companies that make presses that can make components or chassis say, no.

那是不可能的。

That would be impossible.

但有一家，我记得是在意大利，说，好的。

But one, I think in Italy, says, okay.

我们可以试试。

We can try it.

他们制造了一个巨大的压机，能压出半个底盘，然后再压出另一半，你只需要把它们拼在一起。

And they make this huge press that can do a half of the chassis and then another, and you just have to pull them together.

后来，当他建造那座巨大的汽车工厂——Giga Texas时，他说，现在我们要一次性完成。

And then eventually, when he builds this huge auto factory, Giga Texas, he says, now we're gonna do it in one piece.

他们建造了这台Giga Press。

And they build this Giga Press.

所以现在特斯拉汽车的底盘就是一次性完成的。

And so the chassis of the car of a Tesla is now done in one piece.

而且他用了一种有趣的方式做到了。

And he did it in a funny way.

他没有把人们逼到崩溃的边缘。

He didn't push people to total distraction.

他只是不断地说，想想看。

He just kept saying, think about it.

物理定律并没有说这是不可能的，而他们一直觉得他疯了。

The laws of physics don't say this is impossible, and they keep looking at him like he's crazy.

但当你去奥斯汀工厂，看到那些巨型压铸机时，你就会明白。

But then you go to the Austin factory, and you look at these gigapresses, and you say, I get it.

这就是为什么其他公司，比如通用汽车，退出大型电动车市场，其他公司做不到。

That's why other companies, GM, getting out of making big EVs, other companies can't do it.

但那种对物理特性的感知、对物理学的理解，以及跳出常规的思维方式，是巨大的突破之一。

But that sense of the physical properties, the physics, and sort of thinking out of the box, That was one of the great breakthroughs.

关于工厂，另一件有趣的事情是，你可能会认为马斯克只是在不断地自动化、自动化、自动化。

The other thing that's so interesting about the factories, you would think that Musk is just automating, automating, automating.

然后他遇到了一个情况，他有点发现，哦，我们自动化过头了。

And then he had this incident where he kind of discovers, oh, we've over automated.

2017年，他在内华达州建的电池工厂遇到麻烦时，他搬到了那里。

In 2017, when he's having trouble with the battery factory that they've built in Nevada, he moves there.

他睡在地板上。

He sleeps on the floor.

他们在那里待了几个月，然后某个时刻他们意识到，有个机器人正在做的事情太耗时了。

They spend months there, and they realize at some point that something that they're doing that a robot is trying to do is taking too long.

然后他想明白了，等等。

And he figures out, wait.

人类做这个可以快得多。

A human could do this much faster.

我们可以弄一张大木桌，雇六个人，他们做这个能快三倍。

We could just get a big wooden table and hire six people, and they could do this three times as fast.

所以他们在工厂里到处跑，找出哪些机器实际上拖慢了速度，而不是加快速度。

So they run around the factory, figuring out what machines are really slowing things down rather than speeding things up.

马斯克和他身边的这群人，手里拿着几罐喷漆。

Musk and this cadre around them, and they have cans of spray paint.

他们就在那些要拆掉的机器上画上大大的叉号。

And they're just putting big x's on machines that they're gonna have to take out.

这简直就像一群孩子在游乐场上玩标记游戏，他们还在工厂墙上开了一个洞，把那些多余的机器人设备拖了出来。

And it's almost like kids playing on the playground, marking things, and they cut a hole in the wall of the factory and drag out some of this excess robotics.

他仍然相信自动化。

He still believes in automation.

他打算在德克萨斯州的奥斯汀建造世界上最自动化的工厂之一，一条生产线用来生产价值两万五千美元的汽车，然后在墨西哥复制同样的生产线。

He's going to build one of the most automated factories in the world, both in Austin, Texas, an assembly line for the $25,000 car, and then replicated in Mexico.

但他承认那是他犯下的一个大错误。

But he says that was one of his big mistakes.

他说，我们在流程一开始就自动化了。

He said, we automated at the very beginning of the process.

那应该是最后一步才做的事。

That should be the last thing you should do.

你应该在简化流程、质疑每一个要求、弄清楚能多快完成之后，才进行自动化。

You should only automate after you've simplified the process, questioned every requirement, figured out how fast it could be done, then you do the automation.

那个故事既体现了你描述的那种玩心，也让人觉得他好像不在乎沉没成本。

That story sort of illustrates both the playfulness you described, but also the sense that he doesn't seem to care about sunk costs.

比如，很多人不会这么做，因为他们已经在那台机器上投入了太多钱。

Like, a lot of people would not do that because they've put so much money into those machines.

你懂吧？

You know?

一开始有很多阻力，因为他们投入了大量金钱、心血和努力来制造这些机器人。

There was a lot of resistance at first because they put a lot of money and sweat and effort into making these robots.

但后来他们突然意识到，应该跟着走。

But then suddenly, they realize that they should go along.

这会很有趣。

This is gonna be interesting.

他们会学到东西。

They're gonna learn something.

尽管人们有时会感到疲惫或被马斯克冒犯，但那些他表现出鼓舞人心且正确无误的时刻，让他们继续坚持下去。

And even though people sometimes feel burned out or attacked by Musk, those moments where he turns out to be inspirational and right, keep them going.

休息之后，我们来思考一下去火星的旅程。

After the break, we contemplate the journey to Mars.

请继续收听。

Stay with us.

我是梅利莎·杰尔钦，在我的新播客《她发生了什么》中，我每周都会带来新的故事和对话。

I'm Melissa Jeltsin, and in my new podcast, What Happened to Her, I'm bringing you new stories and conversations every week.

这些故事讲述的是那些死亡被草率判定为自杀的女性。

Stories about women whose deaths were too quickly ruled a suicide.

她开始感到担忧，并为自己的安全感到害怕。

She was starting to get worried and get scared for her safety.

生存的故事。

Stories of survival.

坦白说，我和她之间唯一的区别是——

The only difference between me and her, frankly, was a

一点运气罢了，因为按理说，我早该死了。

little bit of luck because by all rights, I should be dead.

那些所有人都认为已经结案的案件。

Cases that everyone else called closed.

他们没法给她定罪，对吧？

They can't convict her, right?

像她这样有这么多证据。

Like, she has so much evidence.

这些故事都有一个共同的起点：一个女人被一个不相信她、不保护她、看不见她的系统所辜负。

These stories all start in the same place, with a woman failed by a system that didn't believe her, that didn't protect her, that didn't see her.

任何孩子都不应该经历那样的事。

No child should ever experience that.

而那时我们都还是婴儿。

And we were babies.

她做了所有这些勇敢的事情，站出来发声，而他只被判了一年。

She did all of these brave things and came out and spoke about it, and he got a year.

你永远不知道那个魔鬼是谁，因为他戴着伪装。

You never know who that devil is because he's wearing a disguise.

有时候，伪装就是一身警察制服。

Sometimes it's a police uniform.

想听听她的遭遇，可以在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple Podcasts 或者任何你收听播客的地方收听。

Listen to what happened to her on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

有成千上万的播客教你如何变得更好。

There are thousands of podcasts that can tell you how to better yourself.

但《和 Kyle Bru 一起变糟》可不是那种播客。

Get Worse With Kyle Bru is not one of those podcasts.

所以，如果你感兴趣的是减肥、去心理咨询、开始用肽类、设定界限、服用保健品、让自己变得更好、获得心理上的释怀，

So if you're interested in getting thinner, going to therapy, starting peptides, setting boundaries, taking supplements, making you better, getting closure,

那么，我斗胆建议你

then I would humbly recommend

去听别的播客。

other podcasts.

但如果你对勒索、爱情轰炸、克隆自己或复仇感兴趣，那我们这里有点东西，正适合你这种坏家伙。

But if you're interested in blackmail, love bombing, cloning yourself, or getting revenge, then we've got a little something something for a dastardly individual like you.

听听我们到目前为止给出的那些不可思议的建议吧。

Take a listen to some of the incredible advice we've given so far.

假装背部受伤。

Fake a back injury.

去做个喷雾晒黑。

Get the spray tan.

增加你的酒精摄入量。

Up your alcohol consumption.

只有女性才应该被允许拥有枪支。

Only women should be allowed to have guns.

杀了他们。

Kill them.

杀了他们。

Kill them.

用枪杀了他们。

Kill them with a gun.

听着，已经结束了。

Listen, it's already over.

如果那件事真的发生过，我完全支持说谎。

I'm all about lying if it's something that really happened.

下次熊朝你跑来的时候，你只要冷静地停下手中的事，直视熊的眼睛，然后说这不是你。

The next time a bear is running at you, you just calmly stop what you're doing, you look the bear in the eye, and you say this isn't you.

不要维护关系。

Do not preserve relationships.

你不需要它们。

You don't need them.

你只需要一样东西，那就是《变得更糟》播客。

You only need one thing, and that's the Get Worse podcast.

在……上收听凯尔·佩鲁主持的《变得更糟》

Listen to Get Worse with Kyle Perrou on

iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts，或者任何你收听播客的地方。

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

我是莱西·莫斯利，作家、演员、单口喜剧演员、创作者，也是《骗子女神》播客的主持人。

I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand up comedian, creator, and host of scam goddess podcast.

这个真实犯罪喜剧播客，讲的都是抢劫、

The true crime comedy podcast all about robbery,

诈骗，以及那些从事这些行为的人。

fraud, and those who practice

每周，我都会请来一些了不起的嘉宾，比如柯南·奥布莱恩、爱荷华·黛布拉、拉莫恩·莫里斯和妮可·拜尔。

Each week, I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debra, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Byer.

哦，我骗了他们。

Oh, I scammed them.

什么？

What?

我可以跟你聊一个小时。

I could talk to you for an hour.

你是个天生的聊天高手

You're a generational yapper

跟我一样。

like me.

所以我才

That's why I

把聊天变成了工作。

had to make yapping a job.

骗局五花八门。

And the scams run the gamut.

我说的是从十九世纪一直到今天的各种骗局。

I'm talking about scams from the eighteen hundreds all the way up to today.

我还会提醒你，帮你防范骗子。

I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers.

记得给爷爷奶奶打电话。

Call your grandparents.

请告诉你的父母，别再点击那些链接了。

Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please.

现在你可以在YouTube上观看我节目的完整剧集。

And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube.

只要有骗局，我就在这里保护你，同时也会和你一起笑。

If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you, and I'm also here to laugh with you.

所以，如果你喜欢有趣的内容，喜欢喜剧，喜欢学习并且保护自己免受犯罪分子的侵害，那就开始在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或任何你收听播客的地方收听《骗子女神》吧。

So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to scam goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

骗子女神。

Scam goddess.

每个案件都有它的故事。

Every case has a story.

每个受害者都有他们的声音。

Every victim has a voice.

但，这些声音会被听到吗？

But will it be heard?

我是南希·格雷斯。

I'm Nancy Grace.

在《犯罪故事》中，我们深入挖掘头条新闻背后的真相，审视证据，质疑我们被告知的故事，并为受害者及其家人追求正义。

On Crime Stories, we go beyond headlines to examine evidence, challenge the story we're fed, and pursue justice for victims and their families.

请通过iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或您收听播客的任何平台，加入我们的《犯罪故事》节目，与南希·格雷斯一起。

Please join us at crime stories with Nancy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you find your podcasts.

希望您能加入我们。

Hope you join us.

我们到时候见，朋友。

I'll see you there, friend.

艾萨克森在报道中亲眼看到，为埃隆·马斯克工作可不是件轻松的事，说得委婉点。

Isaacson sees firsthand in his reporting that working for Elon Musk is not a picnic, to put it mildly.

像“要求严格”或“喜怒无常”这样的词，甚至都不足以真正描述马斯克对待员工的方式。

Words like demanding or mercurial don't even really capture the way Musk approaches his employees.

我们会在第二集中详细讨论这一点。

We'll get to that in episode two.

但沃尔特还发现，那些极其聪明的人即使吃点苦，也乐意甚至渴望为一位有远见的人工作。

But another thing Walter discovers is that incredibly smart people are happy, even eager to endure a little hardship to work for a visionary.

对他们来说，马斯克就像一位史诗般的探险家，重新唤起了我们对新边疆的向往，无论是可持续能源的未来，还是深空旅行。

For them, Musk is an epic adventurer, reconnecting us with a lost sense of new frontiers, whether that's a sustainable energy future or deep space travel.

人们对太空旅行有一种浪漫的看法，你觉得我们总体上已经失去了这种浪漫吗？

There is a kind of romantic view of space travel, and do you feel like we have lost that in general?

对。

Yep.

马斯克提到三四个理由，比如想去火星。

Musk talks about three or four reasons, like, wants to get to Mars.

但最鼓舞人心的是冒险这个概念。

But the most inspiring is the notion that it's adventure.

他说太空是终极冒险。

And he said space is the ultimate adventure.

他小时候读了很多漫画书，所以他现在是太空船长。

And there's a kid who read a lot of comic books when he was a kid, and so he's captain space.

他说美国不知怎么地失去了冒险精神，陷入了日常琐事之中。

And he says that America somehow lost a sense of adventure and got mired in its day to day problems.

现在我们有一大堆日常问题。

Now we have all sorts of day to day problems.

有时候我们连众议院议长都选不出来。

I mean, we can't get a speaker of the house sometimes.

有时候我们连预算都搞不定。

We can't get budget sometimes.

有时候我们卷入战争，却不知道怎么脱身。

We get involved in wars we don't know how to get out of sometimes.

但他说，你要通过一个更宏大的愿景来平衡这些，让你早上愿意起床的东西，因为正是这种东西让我们作为物种感到振奋，而不是陷在平庸的日常里。

But he says, you put that in perspective by having a grander vision, the thing that makes you wanna get up in the morning, because it's a type of thing that makes us inspired as a species rather than mired in the everydayness.

他还说，如果我们始终关注探索太空、成为太空文明的需求，这不仅能激励我们去做事，还能激励我们去冒险，知道在去火星的路上会有人牺牲。

And he says, and if we keep our eye on the need to explore space and become space faring, it inspires us not only to do things, but also to do risky things, to know that people are going to die on the way to Mars.

他并不是对此轻率，但他相信你必须冒险，必须有冒险精神。

And it's not that he's cavalier about it, but he believes you gotta take risks and have adventure.

他相信这一点，甚至有点过头了。

He believes it to a fault, too much so.

但有时候我觉得，我们其他人的问题可能在于，我们有点失去了那种热情。

But sometimes I think the fault with us, the rest of us, might be we've lost a little bit of that taste.

那你认同这个愿景吗？

And do you buy into the vision?

这个想法打动你了吗？

Did that connect with you?

我得承认，我不太认同他那种执念，说什么地球可能在五十年内毁灭，人工智能可能会摧毁我们，所以我们必须通过在火星上建立殖民地来延续人类意识。

I must admit, I don't connect with his obsession that the planet Earth may get destroyed in the next fifty years, and AI may destroy us, so we have to keep consciousness alive by having colonies on Mars.

我就觉得，好吧。

I'm like, alright.

我每天醒来担心的事情，不是这个。

The things I wake up and worry about, that's not it.

但我确实认为我们必须尝试去火星，因为我相信提出这个想法的人。

But I do believe we have to try to go to Mars because I believe in the inventor of it.

我小时候，和同代人一样，当沃尔特·克朗凯特倒数“10、9、8”时，我都会屏住呼吸。

When I was a young kid, like anybody of my generation, I held my breath as Walter Cronkite said, 10, nine, eight.

那是卡纳维拉尔角的39A发射台。

It was Pad 39 A at Cape Canaveral.

我记得去过那里，后来因为马斯克现在拥有39A发射台，我又回去过。

I remember visiting it and then going back there because Musk now has Pad 39 A.

我们这些看过约翰·格伦进入轨道、熟悉那次倒计时并屏住呼吸的人，确实认同太空旅行可能没有太多实际用途。

And those of us who watched John Glenn get into orbit, who knew that countdown and held our breath, we do buy into the notion that traveling through space may not have a whole lot of utility.

如果做成本效益分析，这可能不是资源的最佳利用方式，但我们应该去做。

It may not be the best use of our resources if you're doing a cost benefit analysis, but we ought to be doing it.

所以他也有鼓舞人心的一面。

And so there's an inspiring side to him as well.

他是唯一能让美国宇航员进入轨道并让火箭重新着陆的人。

The only person who can get astronauts from The US into orbit and then re land the rocket.

没有其他公司、其他国家能够做到让火箭升空、完成任务后垂直着陆并重复使用，这是去火星所必需的。

No other company, no other country has been able to take rockets, get things over, and then land them upright and reuse them, which is necessary if you're gonna get to Mars.