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大家好。
Hey, everybody.
今天我们为大家准备了一个很棒的节目。
We have a good one for you today.
我很高兴首次邀请莎拉·麦布赖德来到节目。
I was delighted to welcome Sarah McBride to the show for the first time.
去年我在Bullwark现场活动中见到了她，她真的非常出色且富有洞察力。
I got to meet her last year at the Bullwark live event, and she's just so good and thoughtful.
而且请一定要坚持看到最后，我认为她在节目末尾发表了一段非常激动人心且重要的演讲。
And and do stick around for, I think, a pretty stirring and important rant that she gives at the very end of the show.
我想了解一个技术问题。
I do wanna know one technical thing.
今天早上我们遇到了一些网络故障，你知道的，这些故障影响了制作人杰森操作的高级音频系统，这个系统平时能让所有声音在你们耳边听起来美妙如巧克力。
We had some gremlins, some Internet gremlins this morning that, you know, made our fancy audio system that producer Jason navigates to make everything sound beautiful and chocolatey in your ears every day.
这个系统坏了。
That broke down.
所以我们今天用的是地下室级别的播客音频设备。
So we're using, you know, basement podcast audio equipment today.
因此，可能会有一些杂音，对此我表示歉意。
As such, you know, there are gonna be some crackles, and I apologize for that.
希望我们明天的节目能修好这个问题。
And, hopefully, we'll get that fixed for tomorrow's show.
当我们坐下来开始节目时，特朗普正在达沃斯发表一场疯狂的演讲。
As we were sitting down for the show, Trump was giving an insane speech at Davos.
我们会稍微聊一聊这个话题。
We get into that a little bit.
节目开头，JBL的萨姆和安德鲁在《Bolder Takes》频道对这件事做了完整分析，如果你感兴趣也可以去看看。
At the top, JBL Sam and Andrew did a full breakdown of that over on the Bolder Takes feed if you wanna check out that as well.
在见Sarah之前，我想谈一件事。
Before we get to Sarah, I wanna talk about one thing.
所以我感觉有点像情感操控。
And so I feel a little bit like emotional manipulation.
在某些方面，我其实有点在对自己进行情感操控，因为我确实认为，确保我们感受到当前国家正在发生的真实情况是很重要的。
And in some ways, I'm kind of I wanna I'm emotionally manipulating myself a little bit because I do think it's important to make sure we are feeling the reality of what is happening in the country right now.
我想起2016年竞选后期的一个时刻，当时我一位身为共和党策略师的朋友告诉我，他之所以支持特朗普，是因为他的女儿们是拉丁裔。
And I think back to at a moment kind of late in the twenty sixteen campaign when a friend of mine who was a Republican strategist talked about how he was with me on Trump because his daughters he's Hispanic.
他的女儿们在学校被霸凌，被人辱骂，还说‘特朗普会把你驱逐出境’之类的废话。
His daughters were getting bullied at school and, like, called a bunch of names and being like, Trump's gonna deport you and blah blah blah.
那时这件事真的深深触动了我。
I that really, like, got me at the time.
从很多方面来说，它一直留在我的记忆里。
Stuck with me in a lot of ways.
首先，我为他感到非常愤怒。
One, I got very mad on his behalf.
但后来我又对自己感到愤怒，因为我的愤怒可能比他本人还要强烈。
And then later kind of mad that I was more mad than he was maybe.
不过，那是另一个话题了。
But that's for another day.
在第一任期，也就是头一两年里，我经常提到这件事。
And through the first term, like, through the first year or two, like, it was something that I talked about a lot.
你知道的吧？
You know?
我觉得自己在拿自己开玩笑，就像莫德·弗兰德斯一样，老在那儿喊：‘难道没人想想孩子们吗？’
Like, I felt like I was making fun of myself and be like, I'm like Maude Flanders over here going like, won't somebody think of the children?
但这件事确实是认真的。
But it was legit, though, also.
这真的会产生实际影响。
This has real ramifications.
对吧？
Right?
有些人就是不认为政治重要，总统也不重要。
Like, some people just don't believe the politics matters and the president matters.
好吧，这是一种观点。
And, okay, that's a point of view.
那不是我的观点。
That's not mine.
我相信总统说的话很重要，他的言辞有影响，并且这种影响会渗透到整个社会。
Like, I believe that what the president says matters, that his words matter, and that there's a trickle down effect through society.
也许并不是每个人都受影响，但确实有一些年轻人正在被激进化。
And maybe it doesn't affect everybody, but there are, you know, people out there, young people that are getting radicalized.
有一些年轻人正在遭受欺凌，而这可能以另一种方式将他们激进化。
There are young people out there that are getting bullied, and maybe that radicalizes them in a different way.
还有一些人长大后会认为自己在这个世界上没有机会。
And there are people that are gonna grow up thinking that they don't have opportunity in this world.
而且，你知道，这会产生连锁反应。
And, you know, like, will be ripple effects.
你知道吗？
You know?
这会产生蝴蝶效应，会影响我们多年后的未来，因为那些被欺负的孩子会自尊心低下，或者变得愤怒，或者觉得美国在针对他们。
There'll be a butterfly effect that, you know, that will, you know, impact us years into the future because these kids that are getting picked on and bullied are gonna have lower self esteem or they're gonna get angry or they're gonna feel like America's out to get them.
而我不知道这最终会变成什么样子？
And I who knows what that ends up looking like?
而且，即使没有产生涟漪效应，它也是错的。
And also, even if it doesn't have a ripple effect, like, it's just wrong.
它就是错的。
It's just wrong.
我们的孩子不应该因为总统的言论和行为而哭泣和害怕。
Like, our kids shouldn't be crying and afraid because of what the president is saying and doing.
所以我想播放这个片段。
So I wanna play this clip.
昨天我看到一个孩子踢完足球比赛出来。
I was going around yesterday of a kid coming out of a soccer game.
好吧，我们来听一下这段录音。
Well, let's just listen to it.
你再跟我说一遍，其他球员在比赛中对你说了什么？
Tell me again what the other player told you during games.
所以足球比赛中的守门员对我说了一些非常糟糕的话，这让我情绪非常激动。
So the goalkeeper in foot saw, he said some really bad stuff to me, and it just made me get really emotional.
我平时在足球比赛中几乎不会情绪化。
It might get I barely get emotional in soccer.
这家伙告诉我我是个非法移民，尽管我出生在美国。
And this guy told me I'm a I'm a illegal immigrant even though I was born in America.
他还说特朗普会抓走我，把我送回我以前住的地方，但我真的出生在美国。
And he said Trump is gonna get me and send me back to where I used to live, and I I I I was born in America.
我不住在别的任何地方。
I don't live I don't live anywhere else.
他叫我一个脏话，我真的不明白为什么孩子们喜欢说这种话。
That he called me a effing beewer, and I just don't get why kids like to say those stuff.
他们就这样滥用权力，这让我感到非常难过。
It it makes me really sad that how they just control their power like that.
他们以为自己有权力，但这根本不好。
They think they have power, and it's just not nice.
但孩子就是会耍混蛋。
But kids are gonna be dicks.
明白吗？
Okay?
我看到了。
I see it.
我现在在教篮球。
I'm coaching basketball now.
我看到孩子们有时候是怎么对待彼此的。
I I see I see how kids are sometimes with each other.
但我们对美国总统和副总统的标准，应该高于一个七岁的小霸凌者。
But we should have higher standards for the president and vice president of The United States than a seven year old bully.
一个七岁的小霸凌者不该从美国总统和副总统那里抄袭这些言辞，因为这些话带来的伤害会更重。
And a seven year old bully shouldn't be taking their material from the president and vice president of The United States because it does hit a little harder.
如果你是个孩子，这种伤害会更深刻。
It's a little harder if you're a kid.
顺便说一句，这是个公民，不过这也不重要。
It's a citizen, by the way, not that it matters.
而你就在外面。
And you're out there.
当个孩子很难。
It's hard being a kid.
你正在努力学习一项运动。
You're trying to learn a sport.
你正在试图弄清楚如何在这个世界上生活并融入社交。
You're trying to figure out how to live in the world and be social.
那些因为各种原因比你更自信的人，却告诉你，你会被送去集中营、关进监狱、被驱逐出境，或者你的父母很糟糕、是罪犯，因为总统就是这么说的。
And the other people out there who are more comfortable than you are for whatever reason are telling you that you're gonna be put in a camp or jailed or kicked out of the country or that your parents are bad or that your parents are criminals because that's what the president said.
副总统也是这么说的。
That's what the vice president said.
副总统说你吃狗和猫。
Vice president said that you eat dogs and cats.
对吧？
Like right?
这难道不疯狂吗？
And isn't that crazy?
那些在足球场上欺负人的小 racist，不过是把副总统的种族主义笑话照搬过来。
Like, little racist bullies on the soccer field are just taking their racist jokes from the vice president.
孩子们因为其他孩子重复总统和副总统对他们说的话而哭泣。
Like, kids are crying because other kids are repeating what the president and vice president said about them.
这太恶心了。
It's fucking sick.
这很恶心，而且是错误的。
It's sick, and it's wrong.
我们应该做得比这更好。
And we are we we should be better than this.
我知道我们并没有做到。
And I know that we aren't.
对吧？
Right?
我知道这么说听起来老套又做作，但我真的希望有些共和党人能说点什么，我确实希望。
And I know that it, like, feels cliche and corny to be like, I I wish some Republicans would say something, but I do.
我希望有人还能站出来说话，因为这让我很生气。
I wish people would still say something because it makes me mad.
我们应该追求变得更好。
And we should aspire to be better.
你会在节目结尾听到，莎拉·麦布赖德希望我们变得更好。
And you'll you'll hear at the end of the pod, Sarah McBride wants us to be better.
所以我决定，即使我已经当了十年的莫德·弗兰德斯了，还是继续谈论这件事，以此作为示范。
And so I figured I could model that a little bit by talking about it still even though I'm in year ten of being Maude Flanders at this point.
所以请继续听下去，会有莎拉·麦布赖德的片段。
So stick around for Sarah McBride.
很棒。
It's great.
感谢您耐心应对音频中的一些杂音和噼啪声，本周晚些时候我们还会带来更多精彩内容。
Thank you for navigating a few few crackles and pops in the audio, and we've got some more good ones coming for you later in the week.
你好，欢迎收听《巴勒德播客》。
Hello, and welcome to the Bullard Podcast.
我是您的主持人蒂姆·米勒。
I'm your host, Tim Miller.
非常高兴邀请到一位嘉宾，她刚刚完成了作为特拉华州全州选区美国众议员的第一年任期。
Delighted to welcome to the show, someone who just finished her first year as US representative for Delaware's at Large Congressional District.
她目前任职于众议院外交事务委员会。
She's in the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
此前，她曾担任纽卡斯尔县部分地区的州参议员。
Previously, it was a state senator representing parts of New Castle County.
三零二地区，你们好！
What up, three zero two?
欢迎来到节目。
Welcome to the show.
她是莎拉·麦布赖德。
It's Sarah McBride.
你最近怎么样？
How are doing?
我挺好的，我本来想说我很不错。
I'm doing I'm I was gonna say I'm doing well.
我还可以。
I'm doing okay.
我有点时差，而且显然，世界现状就是如此。
I'm I'm a little jet lagged, and, obviously, the state of the world is is what it is.
但能和一位前特拉华州临时居民一起聊天，真是太好了。
But it's great to be on with a former temporary Delawarean.
我不知道人们是否知道，或者说，这并不是我经常提到的个人经历。
For I don't know people know that or mean, it's not part of my bio I talked about a ton.
你知道的？
You know?
那是我在威尔明顿和雷霍博斯海滩之间度过的四个月，当时正在参与一位好人、法官比尔·李失败的州长竞选。
It was a it a four month stint living between Wilmington and Rehoboth Beach on a failed gubernatorial campaign of a good man, judge Bill Lee.
你人生中最美好的四个月。
The best four months of your life.
那是一段相当愉快的四个月。
It was a good it was a pretty fun four months.
我当时还在出柜。
I was in the closet.
这说来话长。
It's a long story.
我们看看最后有没有时间讲一讲。
We'll see if we have time for it at the end.
所以，你知道，这其中有一些复杂的因素。
So, you know, it it there were some mixed elements of it.
正如你提到的，你刚从丹麦的科德尔回来，我确实想聊聊这件事。
As you referenced, you just returned from a Codell over in Denmark, and I I do wanna talk about that.
但不幸的是，我认为我们必须从今天早上在达沃斯结束的总统那场愚蠢表现说起，而我们正是在录制时他刚讲完。
But, unfortunately, I think we have to start with the imbecilic performance by our president at Davos this morning that just ended as we are taping.
从哪里开始谈这个呢？
Where to start with that?
我想新闻是——我们应该告诉那些没自虐般去看直播的人——他说他并不打算动用武力强行夺取格陵兰。
I guess the news, which we we should say for people who didn't punish themselves with it, is that he said he was not planning on using excessive force to take Greenland.
但他确实非常非常想要格陵兰，并且基于他的一些历史解读，认为我们理应拥有它。
But he does really, really want Greenland and think we deserve it based on some interpretations of history that he has.
他还说，如果我们得不到格陵兰，我们就继续加征关税，他们最好懂得珍惜我们。
And he also we're gonna keep doing tariffs if if we don't get it, and they better appreciate us.
我们需要冰，而冰岛管我叫戴维，但我把格陵兰和冰岛搞混了。
And we need the ice, and Iceland called me Davy, but I'm mixing up Greenland and Iceland.
所以大致就是这么个情况。
So that's kind of the gist.
所以目前还没有，也没有计划在格陵兰发动战争。
So no war in Greenland yet or planned.
与欧洲盟友打经济战，他还希望他们直接把格陵兰送给我们。
Economic war with our allies in Europe, and he hopes they just give it to us.
你对此怎么看？
What do you think about that?
这简直就像一集糟糕又不准确的《醉酒历史》。
Well, it was like a bad and inaccurate episode of Drunk History.
我的意思是，这太疯了。
I mean, it was unhinged.
这还是他典型的胡言乱语，但这种胡言乱语带来了真实后果——不仅对丹麦和格陵兰，不仅对北约，而且对美国本身都有影响。
It was his classic rambling mess, but a classic rambling mess that has real consequences, not only for Denmark and Greenland, not only for NATO, but but for The United States.
首先，如果总统真的想要格陵兰，他至少应该学会正确拼写它的名字，并能分清格陵兰和冰岛的区别。
First of all, if the president really wants Greenland, he should learn its name and and be able to differentiate it between Greenland and and Iceland.
这确实让人困惑，因为冰岛更绿，而格陵兰却更冰。
Which is confusing for people because Iceland is greener and Greenland is more ice.
谁给这两个地方起的名字，这真是个问题，我觉得。
Whoever came up with those names, that's a problem, I would say.
所以你能理解这有多让人困惑。
So you can understand how it's confusing.
但如果你打算要
But if you're gonna try to
如果你真想占有它，你至少应该学会它的正确名称。
If you're gonna seize it, you should you should probably learn what its name is.
但我刚从格陵兰回来，我无法用言语形容丹麦人，尤其是格陵兰人所承受的恐惧、痛苦与屈辱有多深。
But, you know, I just came back from from this Codell, and I cannot begin to encapsulate in words just how deep the fear, the pain, the indignity is for both the Danes and specifically, of course, the Greenlandic people.
尽管如此，他们仍然非常珍视美国与丹麦的伙伴关系和联盟。
And despite that, they are still very passionate about The US Danish partnership and alliance.
他们显然仍然重视北约。
They're obviously still passionate about NATO.
除了格陵兰本身，以及损害主权、领土完整和格陵兰人的自决权之外，他们几乎愿意为我们付出一切。
And there is quite literally nothing that they aren't willing to give us short of Greenland itself and undermining sovereignty and territorial integrity and the right of self determination of of Greenlander.
除了这些，他们愿意为我们付出一切。
There's nothing short of that that they aren't willing to give us.
在总统所有这些耀武扬威之前，情况就已经是这样了。
And that was true before all of this saber rattling by the president.
正如我的一位同事所说，这对我们毫无好处，却同时危及一切。
And so this, as a colleague of mine said, it benefits us not at all and risks everything all at the same time.
我认为人们必须明白，这本质上就是这位总统的克里米亚。
And I think people have to understand that this is essentially this president's Crimea.
如果他通过胁迫和恐吓，通过经济战争成功夺取格陵兰，那就彻底摧毁了北约的基础——我也认为，根据他的演讲来看，他其实并没有真正理解北约。
And if he is able through coercion and intimidation through economic warfare, if he is able to take Greenland, it completely shatters the foundation of NATO, which I also think based on the speech he doesn't actually fully understand.
是的。
Yeah.
他认为北约就像一个你要缴纳会费的俱乐部。
He thinks NATO is like a country club that you pay dues to.
九年、十年过去了，他仍然对这一点感到困惑。
It's somehow nine years, ten years later, he's still confused about that.
就像那2%只是各国承诺用于国防的GDP比例。
Like, that the 2% part is just the amount that people commit to spend on defense to their GDP.
这并不是像马阿拉歌俱乐部那样的缴费型组织。
It's not it's not like a dues paying organization like the Mar a Lago club.
他说，如果俄罗斯或中国在格陵兰采取任何行动，丹麦将无法独自应对。
And he said if Russia or China were to do anything in Greenland, that Denmark would not be able to respond by themselves.
这正是北约的全部意义所在。
That's literally the whole point of NATO.
这是集体防御。
It's collective defense.
总统曾表示，真正保障格陵兰安全的唯一方式是美国拥有并夺取它，这同时也隐含地表明，美国正在背弃第五条，即我们只保卫那些我们拥有领土控制权的地方。
And the president has said the only way to actually truly secure Greenland is for The United States to own it and seize it, which also implicitly suggests that The United States, it's turning its back on article five, that we will only defend places that we have territorial control over.
因此，要么总统根本不理解这一点，要么他正在有意识地、故意地摧毁北约这一机构，甚至摧毁我们所知的、对欧洲乃至全世界和平与稳定最具影响力的最强大力量。
And so either the president doesn't understand this or he is willfully and intentionally trying to destroy not only NATO as an institution, but quite literally the greatest force for peace and stability, not just in Europe, but in the world that we've really ever known.
我认为人们必须意识到，我们正处在一个关键的转折点上。
I think people have to understand that we are at an inflection point right here.
我认为他们在国内也明白这一点。
I think they know that domestically.
但以规则为基础的国际秩序正在我们周围崩溃。
But the world international rules based order is coming collapsing in around us.
而我们正在庆祝美国建国二百五十年。
And we're celebrating two fifty years of The United States.
在庆祝美国建国二百五十年之际，我一直在思考另一个时间尺度，那就是八十年，因为似乎这个国家每八十年就会面临一个转折点。
And as we celebrate two fifty years of The United States, I've been thinking a lot about another sort of time frame, and that is eighty years because it does seem like this country, every eighty years, faces an inflection point.
我们经历了独立战争。
We have the Revolutionary War.
八十年后，我们经历了内战。
Eighty years later, we have the Civil War.
又过了八十年，我们经历了大萧条和第二次世界大战。
Eighty years later, we have the Great Depression and World War II.
而现在，我们距离上一个转折点正好八十年。
And now we are eighty years from that last inflection point.
我认为，随着上一个转折点的最后一批亲历者及其所汲取的教训逐渐离世——如今正是最伟大的一代正在离去——我们面临着两种选择：要么倾听过去的声音，学习历史的教训；要么被迫重蹈覆辙。
And I think it's as the last living memories of that previous inflection point and the lessons learned in that previous inflection point die out, which is what's happening with the greatest generation right now, we are faced with either learning the lessons of history by listening to the voices of the past or forced to repeat that history.
我担心，格陵兰正是世界秩序发生变革的开端，这种变革可能导致我们八十年来未曾见过的广泛冲突。
And I fear that Greenland is quite literally the beginning of a change in the world order that could result in widespread conflict that we've not seen in eighty years.
用八十年这个时间点来参照很有趣，因为总统在《醉酒历史》演讲中也回溯到了八十年前。
It's interesting to use that eighty year reference point because the president also took us back eighty years during the drunk history speech.
我不知道你有没有注意到那一部分。
I don't know if you caught that part of it.
那段演讲又长又散乱。
It was long and rambling.
我知道你们那边还有其他工作要做。
I know you have other other work to do over there.
但他攻击了哈里·杜鲁门和德怀特·艾森豪威尔。
But he attacked Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower.
所以他们当时不够强大，没能拿下格陵兰。
So they weren't strong enough to take Greenland.
我们本该在二战后从他们手中拿下格陵兰。
We should have taken it from them after World War two.
所以，你知道，我的意思是，我们实际上是在寻求一种判断，即一个逃避兵役、没有为国家服役的人，竟然比得上艾森豪威尔和最伟大的一代——那些真正做出牺牲的人。
So, you know, I mean, we are we're I guess we're we're looking for the judgment here of somebody who dodged the draft and didn't serve the country over Dwight Eisenhower and the greatest generation who's who sacrificed.
这很有趣。
It's interesting.
就像，特朗普所有的怨恨，都是替那些真正做出牺牲的人而发的。
Like, all Trump's resentments, like, on behalf of other people who actually sacrificed.
正如伊姆兰·汗曾经说过的，他本人对国家没有做出任何牺牲，却依然能为别人的牺牲感到委屈。
As Imran Khan once said, he sacrificed nothing and no one for the country, but he he still manages to be aggrieved on behalf of those other sacrifices.
这种委屈感既强大又危险。
And that is that grievance is powerful and and dangerous.
确实如此。
It absolutely is.
然而，这里深刻之处在于，他表现得好像丹麦人或北约根本没为我们做过任何事。
What is profound here, though, is that he is acting like the Danes or NATO for that matter has done absolutely nothing for us.
坦白说，丹麦人此刻理所当然会感到委屈，因为在9·11事件后，他们在阿富汗为保卫美国而牺牲的人均比例，远高于美国自身。
And, you know, frankly, the grievance that the Danes would rightfully feel in this moment after sacrificing more people per capita after nine eleven in defense of The United States in Afghanistan than The United States did.
我的意思是，美国在这样的牺牲之后，竟然如此打脸。
I mean, what an incredible slap in the face by The United States after that kind of sacrifice.
而这种牺牲本身，也强化了总统昨天在Truth Social上所说的观点——北约永远不会支持美国，也从未支持过。
And and that sacrifice itself reinforces too some of the president truth social yesterday that NATO would never be there for The United States, and it and it never has been.
北约联盟集体防御条款（第五条）唯一一次被启用，就是在9·11事件后为保卫美国而采取的行动。
The only instance where article five, our collective defense provision of our NATO alliance has been invoked is after nine eleven in defense of The United States.
这一切完全违背历史事实。
All of this is just completely ahistorical.
这位总统根本不懂历史。
This president doesn't know history.
我认为他既不关心了解历史，也没有能力理解历史，因为正如他在达沃斯的演讲所展现的，他是个蠢货。
I don't think he cares to know history or is capable of knowing history because I think as a speech in in Davos demonstrates he's an he's a moron.
是的。
Yes.
他确实是。
He is.
真的太蠢了。
Truly stupid.
我们可以再次使用那个侮辱性词汇了。
We can use the r slur again.
我们不会。
We're not.
多亏了特朗普，我们或许可以，而且这可能还挺贴切的。
We can, thanks to Trump, and it might be it might be apt.
咱们聊聊没人想谈、只有我妈妈才关心的事吧。
Let's talk about something nobody wants to talk about except my mother.
人死后会发生什么？
What happens when you die?
因为不幸的是，这迟早会发生在我们每个人身上。
Because, unfortunately, it's gonna happen to all of us.
你知道的吧？
You know?
就连特朗普今天在疯疯癫癫的达沃斯演讲中也在思考自己的死亡。
Even Trump was thinking about his mortality at his lunatic Davos speech today.
也许你能感觉到他的大脑正从耳朵里慢慢掉出来，因为他提到自己是房间里年纪最大的人之一。
Maybe you can feel his brain starting to fall out of his ears because he mentioned that he was one of the older people in the room.
无论如何，如果像特朗普这样的人都能开始正视自己的死亡，那你肯定也能。
Anyway, if somebody like Trump can start to, like, come to terms with their own mortality, you sure as hell can.
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And if you're gonna do it, you might as well do it with our friends at Trust and Will online estate planning.
说实话，对我而言，A，我不喜欢思考自己的死亡。
You know, personally, for me, a, I don't love thinking about my mortality.
B，我也不喜欢做文书工作，这点我提过好几次了。
B, I don't like doing paperwork famously.
我之前已经提过好几次了。
I've mentioned that a few times.
所以这让人感到很有压力。
And so it's imposing.
想要思考这些事情确实让人感到畏惧。
It's intimidating to try to think about this stuff.
但Trust and Will让这一切变得异常简单。
And yet, trust and will does make it super easy.
你只需短短三十分钟即可在线创建遗嘱，以保障子女监护权、资产分配和医疗指示。
You can create a will online as little as thirty minutes to protect guardianship of children, asset distribution, and health care directives.
他们的产品由律师设计，符合各州法律，并可根据你的需求定制。
Their products are attorney design, state specific, and customized to your needs.
它由法律专家打造，旨在伴随你一生不断成长。
It was created by legal experts and designed to grow with you.
你可以在人生的每个阶段轻松更新你的计划。
You can easily update your plan at every life stage.
他们提供银行级别的加密和安全共享功能，确保你最重要的文件和信息得到保护并随时可访问。
And they got bank level encryption and secure sharing features so your most important documents and details stay protected and accessible.
他们还提供由真人提供的客户服务，而不是萨姆·阿尔特曼的机器人。
They also provide real customer support from real people, not Sam Altman's drones.
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So don't wait until it's too late.
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That's trustandwill.com/bulwark to get your 20% off.
trustandwill.com/bulwark。
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想多了解一点关于Codell以及你从中学到的东西吗？
Wanna hear a little bit more about the Codell and kind of what you learned from it.
你发过一条社交媒体帖子，总结了一些要点，其中包括对特朗普一直嘲讽的狗拉雪橇的一些观察。
You did a social media post with some takeaways, including some observations about the dog sleds that Trump has been mocking.
我想我们很多人都正在实时了解这些事情。
I think many of us are are learning about this in real time.
你知道的吧？
You know?
我曾经去过一次哥本哈根。
Like, I've been to Copenhagen once.
我对丹麦政府了解不多。
I don't know a ton about Denmark's government.
我对格陵兰也不太了解。
I don't know a ton about Greenland.
我们都在学习中。
Like, we're learning.
我肯定你也在学习。
I'm sure you're learning.
所以我想知道，从那些对话中，你有哪些有趣的收获？
And so I wonder if you what were kind of your interesting takeaways from from those conversations?
我知道你对Codell有些看法。
I know you have some thoughts about the the the Codell.
我听到了你和比尔的对话。
I I heard your conversation with with Bill.
是的。
Yeah.
我想说的是关于科德尔岛上的那些所谓的共和党人。
I suppose about the repub the Republicans, the quote, unquote Republicans on the on the Codell.
丽莎·穆尔科斯基说，克里斯·孔斯策划了这一切。
Lisa Murkowski was like, Chris Coons planned this.
时间太短了，难怪没有共和党人能赶得上，因为时间实在太仓促了。
It was such a short time, and no wonder no Republicans could make it because it was such a short turnaround.
但我认为，如果真有几个共和党人想参加，真正的共和党人，不是丽莎·穆尔科斯基那种即将退休的议员，他们本来是可以去的。
And I'm like, think if a couple Republicans wanted to go, real Republicans, not Lisa Murkowski and retiring Republicans, they could have.
但这可能只是我的想法。
But that's maybe on me.
这将是我需要自己化解的一场家庭争执。
That's gonna be a former family fight for me to work out.
但不管怎样
But anyway
我认为非常清楚的是，我们需要那些私下反对但公开发声的共和党人。
Well, I I I think what is abundantly clear is that we need Republicans who privately say that they oppose this to speak out.
坦率地说，总统在达沃斯的发言令人困惑，他最初说——我认为这可能出现在演讲的实际文本中——他不会使用过度武力。
Frankly, the confusing statement by the president in Davos that first he said, and I think this might have been in the actual text of the speech, that he wouldn't use excessive force.
但几秒钟后，他似乎即兴补充说：我不会使用武力。
And then couple seconds later, it seemed like he perhaps ad libbed, I won't use force.
我认为白宫必须澄清，他指的是完全不使用武力，还是仅指不使用过度武力，因为这两者是不同的。
I think the the White House is gonna have to clarify whether he means he's not gonna use force, period, or he's not gonna use excessive force because those are two different things.
你知道，我认为科德尔如此重要的原因之一是，在国内我们所有人都能观看并认为这不过是典型的特朗普式政治表演。
You know, I think one of the reasons why the Codell was so important was because it is easy here at home for all of us to watch what's going on and think of this as sort of classic sort of political performance Trumpism.
但近距离观察、亲临现场，看到这种近乎荒谬的对话所带来的真实而具体的影响时，虽然并不令人震惊，却令人不安。
Seeing it up close and being there on the ground and seeing the real and tangible impact this near conversation is happening, it wasn't shocking, but it was jarring.
人们真的会走上街头，满身是血地来找我们，不只是为了阻止这件事——当然我们也在这么做——而是恳求我们：我们该如何摆脱这场噩梦？
People would would actually come up to us on the streets bleeding, not just with with us to try to stop this, which, of course, we are, but pleading of how can we get out of this nightmare?
我们能做些什么？
What can we do?
因为我们愿意付出一切，除了我们真正不能放弃的东西——即我们作为国家的主权，任何国家都不会放弃这一点。
Because we are willing to literally give anything except what we truly can't give up, which is our sovereignty as a nation, which no nation would give up.
而在格陵兰，许多家庭正在考虑离开。
And the reality in Greenland is that families are thinking about leaving.
孩子们连觉都睡不好。
Children are going without sleep.
我认为这里的人们并不理解的是，格陵兰，我想每个人都清楚它是个岛屿。
And what I think people here don't understand is that Greenland, I think everyone knows it's an island device.
但正因为如此，丹麦实际上补贴了格陵兰大部分的居住成本，如果我们接管它，这些费用将由我们政府承担。
But because of that, Denmark essentially subsidizes the majority of the cost of habitation in Greenland, which would we we would have to absorb as a government if we were to take it over.
即使我们现在不使用武力，也在利用或可能利用巨大的经济胁迫，这将导致对美国人民征收巨额销售税，以获取一个我们之后必须长期支付费用、且并不想要的岛屿。
We right now, even if we don't engage in force, are utilizing or potentially utilizing vast economic coercion, which will result in the imposition of a massive sales tax on the American people to get an island that we would then have to pay for indefinitely and that we don't want.
绝大多数美国人并不想要这个。
The vast majority of Americans don't want.
即使我们不使用武力，这也是一种对纳税人的负担，而我们本可以不付出这些成本就获得一切。
Even if we don't use force, this is a drain on the taxpayer when we could get everything without all of that cost associated with it.
是的。
Yeah.
除了纳税人之外，我们昨天简单提过这一点，但这种不稳定性正在推高国债收益率。
And in addition to the taxpayer, mean, we talked about this briefly yesterday, but, you know, the instability is, you know, creating an increase in the treasury yields.
对吧？
Right?
其他国家的人，以及全球的投资者，之所以投资美国和美元，是因为它是一个避风港，而特朗普，你本以为作为房地产商人他会懂这些，却在那里胡言乱语。
People, like, in other countries and not investors around the world, like, invested in The US and the US dollar because it's a safe haven, and that did Trump, who you think would know about this as a real estate guy, was, like, rambling.
他今天另一个胡言乱语是关于利率，说利率降得还不够。
One of the his other rambles today was about interest rates and how they aren't going down enough.
但美联储其实一直在降息，然而由于不稳定性，人们的抵押贷款利率仍在上升。
But, like, the Fed has been lowering interest rates, but still people's mortgage rate are is still going up because of instability.
而且这一周以来，利率飙升至自去年解放日后关税闹剧以来的最高点。
And, like, that skyrocketed over this week to, like, the highest point it's been since last year, like, when the tariff nonsense from after liberation day.
这确实对普通人产生了实际影响。
And so, like, that has a real impact on, like, on regular people.
如果你想找新工作需要搬到州内其他地方，或者想买房，家里人多了，或者你在减负，作为老年人想卖掉大房子。
If you wanna if you get a new job and want need to move to a different part of the the state or you wanna buy a new house or your family's growing, or if you're downsizing, if you're a senior trying to downsize your house.
对吧？
Right?
这很重要，他的不稳定正在影响人们。
Like, this matters, and his instability is affecting people.
这有点难解释，因为你得用‘三十年期收益率’这个词。
That's, like, a little hard to explain, you know, because you gotta use the word thirty year yield.
你知道的？
You know?
但它确实影响着普通人。
But it does affect real people.
我不知道。
And I don't know.
我和大卫·普卢夫聊过这个话题。
David Pluff and I were talking about this.
你认为有可能突破格陵兰计划的经济层面，让选民理解吗？
Do you think it's possible to kind of break through the economic side of of the Greenland gambit to to voters?
如果这种情况持续下去，绝对有可能。
I think if it continues, absolutely.
我认为，如果这种情况持续，并且我们看到对这些欧洲国家征收10%的新关税，未来几周甚至几个月内可能达到25%甚至更高，我们完全可以向民众明确指出：唐纳德·特朗普正在向你征税，只为获取一些我们根本不需要的东西，因为所有我们可能获得的实际利益，格陵兰政府和丹麦政府都愿意提供给我们。
I think if it continues and we are seeing 10% new tariffs on on these European nations, potentially 25%, potentially more in the weeks and months ahead, I think we absolutely can make it clear to people that Donald Trump is taxing you in order to get something that we don't need because everything that we could materially benefit from, the Greenlandic government and the Danish government are willing to give to us.
二战后，我们在格陵兰有20个基地。
We had 20 bases in Greenland after World War two.
现在只剩下一个了。
It's now down to one.
如果我们想重新开放那20个基地，他们非常乐意让我们这么做。
If we wanna reopen those 20 bases, they are more than happy to let us do that.
由于地形恶劣，格陵兰几乎不存在可投资的自然资源。
There are essentially uninvestable natural resources in Greenland because of the hostile terrain.
但如果我们愿意花钱去获取这些自然资源，他们愿意与我们合作。
But if we want to spend whatever money to try to get those natural resources, they're willing to work with us to do that.
这根本没有任何道理。
There is quite literally no reason for this.
我认为，没有任何理由，再加上可能对美国民众征收销售税，再加上如果我们接管这个岛就必须补贴它的说法，这会引发人们的共鸣。
And I think with no reason, coupled with a potential sales tax on the American people, coupled with the argument that we're gonna have to, if we take this over, subsidize this this island, I think that that's resonant for for people.
我认为这违背了总统对选民的基本承诺，即把我们的国家放在首位，努力解决国内的问题，而不是到处奔波，充当世界警察，花大笔钱投入无休止的战争。
And I think it it betrays the president's fundamental promise to his voters, which is to put our country first and to try to solve problems here rather than, you know, going around the world, being the world's policeman, and spending massive amounts of money on on endless wars.
你问过他们，称其为‘爱斯基摩冰原’是否冒犯吗？
Did you ask them if it's offensive to call it an Eskimo Ice Desert?
因为我在社交媒体上这么说了，有些人对我很生气。
Because I did that on social media, some people got mad at me.
我猜他们大概不会喜欢这种叫法。
My my guess is that that that's probably something they they wouldn't appreciate.
而且你刚才提到，看。
And and you mentioned look.
你提到了狗拉雪橇，而总统一直在嘲笑这一点。
You mentioned the the dog sleds, and the president keeps mocking this.
是的。
Yeah.
事实上，丹麦政府和丹麦军队现在在那儿有两辆狗拉雪橇。
The fact that that the Danish government, the Danish military has now two dog sleds there.
这几乎是穿越格陵兰冻原地区的唯一方式。
That is literally the only way to traverse the tundra parts of Greenland.
如果使用发动机，在许多情况下，这些发动机在严寒中会停止工作。
If you had motors, in many cases, those motors would cease working in the cold.
如果发动机故障，你无法像狗拉雪橇那样拥有足够的冗余保障，你可能会被困在冻原中央，很可能丧命。
You couldn't have the amount of redundancy that the dog sleds have should the motors fail, and you'd be stuck in the middle of a tundra and would likely die.
因此，要穿越该岛，尤其是北部地区，只能依靠这些狗拉雪橇。
And so the only way to get across, particularly the northern part of the island, is with these dog sleds.
所以这表明我们缺乏这方面的知识。
And so it shows that we don't have the knowledge.
格陵兰是世界上最危险的地形之一。
Greenland is one of the most treacherous terrains in the world.
我们甚至连基本的知识都没有，也没有破冰船等设备。
We do not even have the knowledge, and we don't have the equipment, the the the ice breaking ships.
我们没有任何东西来实际管理格陵兰。
We don't have any of it to actually run Greenland.
如果丹麦人撤出，格陵兰几周内就会崩溃。
It would collapse within weeks if the Danes pulled out.
我想转到资金方面的争论。
I wanna move to the funding kind of fight conversation.
关于这一点有两个要点。
Two elements about it.
众议院在这些小事上推进得相当快，我并不想让大家太厌烦于讨论众议院内部的琐事，但总体来看，这个下一波预算悬崖似乎正在被顺利越过。
The house is, like, moving surprisingly fast on these little I I don't wanna bore people too much with the minibus talk, like the internal house things, but just as a broad brush, it's kind of getting, you know, this next kind of budget cliff passed.
共和党人在众议院推进的速度比我们一些人预期的还要快。
And they're moving a little faster than I think some of us expected to do that, the Republicans in the house.
参议院的一些民主党人，我们听说克里斯·墨菲和其他人基本表示，民主党应该坚决反对，并可能在接下来围绕国土安全部在明尼阿波利斯行动（显然也涉及全国范围）的预算谈判中，再次陷入停摆斗争。
Some Democrats in the senate, we've heard Chris Murphy and others basically say the Democrats should be totally stalwart against and potentially be part of another shutdown fight over these next budget negotiations centering on what DHS is doing in Minneapolis, obviously, but all around the country.
你对这个怎么看？
What's your sense of that?
你认为即将发生的预算斗争会如何发展？民主党是否应该利用这个机会展开斗争？
Like, what's coming with the potential budget fight and whether democrats should use this as a opportunity to fight?
我的意思是，我认为我们应该斗争。
I mean, I think we should fight.
我认为我们应该聪明地斗争。
I think we should fight smart.
关于这个问题，我的看法是，我还在最终决定中。
My perspective on this, and I I'm still deciding exactly.
我正在审阅提交给我们的各项拨款法案。
I'm still reviewing the appropriation bills that are coming before us.
我对国土安全部的拨款法案投反对票。
I am a no on the DHS appropriations bill.
这些拨款法案中确实有不少实质性的成果，比如加强了约束机制，我知道大家都说总统不会遵守法律。
There are real wins in many of these appropriations bills in terms of greater guardrails, which I know everyone says, well, the president won't follow the law.
好吧，这没问题。
And it's like, okay.
在某些情况下，确实如此。
Well, in some cases, that's true.
在某些情况下，他确实会遵守。
In some cases, he does.
约束机制很重要，尤其是当法院最终作出裁决时。
Guardrails do matter, especially if there's a final say from the courts.
而且，如果我们只是说
And, like, if we're just gonna say
他根本不在乎这些东西。
that stuff that he doesn't pay attention to.
这正是我不喜欢这场斗争的另一个原因。
This is the other thing why I don't like that fight.
比如，在那些他不插手的部门预算中设置监管机制是很重要的。
Like, it's important to have guardrails in the the, you know, budget for, like, random departments that he's not meddling in.
没错。
Exactly.
没错。
Exactly.
在某些情况下，这些拨款法案或更强的监管机制带来的资金比没有它们时还要多，不仅惠及各机构和联邦雇员，也惠及像住在第八节住房的人群。
And there is more funding in some of these cases than than what we would have without these appropriations bills or greater guardrails, not just for the agencies and the federal workers, but also for folks who, for instance, live in section eight housing.
在交通、住房与城市发展拨款法案中有一项禁令，旨在保护全美多达四百万人免受联邦政府单方面驱逐，这些人住在第八节住房中。
There's a prohibition in the transportation and housing and urban development appropriations bill that would protect 4,000,000 people across this country who live in section eight housing from essentially the federal government unilaterally evicting them.
这些法案中确实包含了对民众的实际保护。
There are real protections for people in these bills.
因此，我认为人们可以心安理得地投票支持这些法案。
And so I think that people can in good conscience vote for those bills.
不幸的是，如果国土安全部法案未能通过，ICE仍将获得所需的所有资源，因为它们已在那项庞大而糟糕的法案中获得了数亿美元的资金。
We, unfortunately, if the DHS bill does not go through, Department of Homeland Security bill doesn't go through, ICE will have all of the resources it needs because they were able to pass hundreds of millions of dollars for it in the big ugly bill.
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但我认为，通过将国土安全部法案单独出来，我和许多同事都将投反对票。
But I do think by isolating the DHS bill, I and many of my colleagues will be voting against it.
我认为，应该让国土安全部——也就是移民与海关执法局所在部门——成为讨论和斗争的焦点，而不是把所有其他内容都混在一起，导致可能引发更大规模的政府停摆冲突并带来大量附带伤害。
And I think it's worth making that department, which is where ICE is located, make that department the center of the conversation and the center of the fight rather than throwing in everything else and all of the collateral damage that comes with a larger potential government shutdown fight.
如果我们把这个问题单独拎出来，并通过独立的国土安全部拨款法案将其隔离，我认为我们就能就这个问题展开斗争，而不会伤害到我们每天都在努力保护的人。
And I think if we make that issue the issue and we've isolated it by having a stand alone DHS appropriations bill, I think that means we can fight on that issue without hurting people that we are trying to protect every single day.
说到我们试图保护的人群，还有一件国会人士私下谈论的小事。
Speaking people are trying to protect, there is this little thing called secret congress people talk about.
这几乎让人觉得，这种做法并不会激励任何人去讨论共和党和民主党是如何合作的。
Like, it's almost like that doesn't incentivize anybody to talk about the ways that Republicans and Democrats work together.
这并不健康，但作为政治现实，我们确实就处在这个状态。
This is not healthy, but it just is where we're at just as a political matter.
我想谈谈秘密国会的几个具体方面。
I just wanna talk about a couple of the elements of the secret congress.
昨天早上，亚伦发了一篇帖子，提到在所有这些预算法案中，共和党人附加了一些反跨性别者的条款。
There's this post by Aaron in the morning, you know, yesterday talking about how in all these budget bills, the Republicans had attached some anti trans rioters to them.
你知道，这些都是一些毒丸条款，其实和真正的拨款法案没什么关系，最后都被删掉了。
Know, You they're kind of these poison pill elements that weren't really relevant to to the actual funding bill, and they all ended up being stripped.
你知道，所有这些事情都是在幕后发生的。
And, you know, that's the kind of thing that's all happening behind the scenes.
我只是想知道，你对那里发生的事情有什么看法。
And I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on what was happening there.
我对我的同事们在这个问题上的表现感到非常自豪。
I'm really proud of my colleagues on this particular issue.
过去一年半以来，关于民主党即将把跨性别群体推下水的报道层出不穷。
There has been an endless amount of stories about the pending throwing of of the trans community under the bus by the Democratic Party for a year and a half now.
你知道，每次只要有一个政客说了什么不太得体或不够得体的话，
You know, every single time one random politician says something that's not particularly great or eloquent.
就会有文章说，看，这就是民主党把跨性别者推下水的证据。
There's a story about how, see, this is proof that the Democratic Party has thrown trans people under the bus.
这根本不符合事实。
That's just not accurate.
对吧？
Right?
在某个时刻，事实揭示了不同的现实。
At a certain point, the facts demonstrate a different reality.
而国会的现实是，由于我在众议院民主党党团和参议院民主党党团中的同事们几乎一致反对，迄今为止没有任何一项主要的反跨性别法案或条款获得通过并由总统签署成为法律。
And the reality in this congress is that because of essentially near unanimity of my colleagues in the Democratic House caucus and the Democratic caucus in the senate, not a single major anti trans bill or provision has passed and been signed into law by the president.
如果你在2024年11月我刚进入国会时告诉我，到目前为止，在本届总统任期内，没有任何一项反跨性别法案或条款会成为法律，我根本不会相信。
And if you had told me that when I was coming in here in November 2024 that not a single anti trans bill or provision would have become law by this point in this presidency, I would not have believed it.
这证明了我的同事们所秉持的务实原则。
And that is a testament to the pragmatic principles of my colleagues.
我也会坦诚地说。
I will also be honest.
这种做法之所以有效，是因为它为不完美的盟友留出了空间——那些对跨性别者参与体育运动持有疑问或担忧的人，那些不总能使用恰当语言的人，那些从根本上认同跨性别者的尊严与权利、认为共和党试图通过恐吓和替罪羊策略针对我们是残忍且赤裸裸的霸凌行为的人，同时仍然认为公共政策中关于资金和参与资格的问题需要被认真探讨。
It is a byproduct of an approach to navigating these issues that has allowed space for imperfect allies, for people who have questions or concerns about trans people in sports consistent with our gender identity, for people who don't always use the the right language, for people who fundamentally believe in the dignity and rights of transgender people and that this Republican effort to fearmonger and scapegoat around us is just cruel and and blatant bullying, who still believe that there are certain questions that need to be answered in public policy about funding and about participation.
如果我们为人们留出足够的空间，他们就能继续留在救生筏上。
If we create enough space for people to remain on the life draft, people will be able to remain on the life raft.
如果我们的生命之筏越来越小，却因为人们不是百分之百支持我们而把他们推下去，我们最终会发现自己孤零零地待在那条筏子上。
If we have an ever shrinking life raft and we push people off because they aren't with us a 100% of the time, we're gonna find ourselves pretty alone on that life raft.
我认为，这是我们这一方的人有时没有充分认识到的一点，因为确实存在一种必须抗争的呼声——这是合理的要求，我们也确实应该这样做。
And I think that that's one of the things that people on our side don't always appreciate because there's there's this demand to fight, which is a reasonable demand and something we should do.
但任何一位即将上战场的将军都会告诉你：第一，不要在对手的战场上作战。
But any general who is going into battle would tell you, one, you don't battle on your opponent's terrain.
对吧？
Right?
不要为每一个小山头而战死。
You don't die on every single little hill.
冬天入侵俄罗斯。
Invading Russia in the winter.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
K.
而且你要确保在投入战斗时，你的军队尽可能地壮大。
And you make sure that when you go into battle, you have as many people within your army as possible.
你不能带着一支人数极少的军队去打仗，那样几分钟内就会被击败。
You don't go in with a tiny army that will be defeated in a matter of minutes.
我认为我所采取的做法是保持我们党内的团结，将不完美的盟友纳入其中，这既是短期的必要，也是长期的使命。
And I think that the approach that I have tried to take is to keep our party together, to welcome imperfect allies both as a short term necessity and as a long term imperative.
因为如果你不与那些带着善意、良好意图和真诚态度前来、但仍有疑问或在某些问题上与你意见不同的人进行对话，你就永远无法在长远上改变他们对这些分歧问题的看法。
Because if you aren't engaging in conversation with people who enter with goodwill and good intentions and in good faith but have questions and might disagree with you on some things, there is no way for you to change their hearts and minds in the long run on those issues that you continue to disagree on.
因此，我认为我们有实实在在的证据。
And so I think we have real receipts.
我们的议会团体在对这个社区的承诺上，有实实在在的证据。
Our caucus has real receipts in our commitment to this community.
我认为，作为这一努力的一部分，我也有实实在在的证据。
I think I have real receipts in being a part of that effort to keep people together.
我也为这种做法不仅赢得了我一些民主党同事的支持，还成功说服了一些共和党人投票反对我前同事玛乔丽·泰勒·格林提出的恶劣反跨性别法案而感到自豪。
And I'm also proud that this approach has not only paid off with with some of my with my Democratic colleagues, but it's not only resulted in me being able to bring some Republicans in to vote against an egregious anti trans bill that that my former colleague Marjorie Taylor Greene introduced.
但这也让我因为自己在国会第一年的应对方式，包括早期遭遇的攻击，而变得更加有效。
But it's then also allowed me to be more effective because of the way that I have navigated the first year in congress, including the attacks early on.
我的一些共和党同事知道，我是一个愿意伸出援手的人，愿意跨越分歧进行合作。
A number of my Republican colleagues knew that I was someone who was willing to have an outstretched hand, that I was someone who was willing to work across disagreement.
因此，这些同事不仅会来找我，说我对我的对待方式是错误的，一点也不像基督徒所为，诸如此类的话——是的，他们本该公开这么说，但他们是在私下里说的。
And so not only would these colleagues come up to me and and say that the way I've been treated is wrong, and it's not very Christian like and all of that stuff, which, yes, they should be saying publicly, but they say it privately.
但他们还会说，让我们找机会合作，向人们展示这里并非所有人都如此。
But they would say, let's find opportunities to work together to show people that not everyone here is like this.
这使得我在第一年提出的两党法案数量超过了国会中任何其他新任议员。
And it's resulted in me being able to introduce more bipartisan bills in my first year than any other freshman in this congress.
你说有些共和党人躲在共情的衣橱里。
You're saying there's a couple Republicans in the empathy closet.
对吗？
K?
说实话，有很多共和党人躲在共情的衣橱里。
Honestly, there are a lot of Republicans in the empathy closet.
好的。
Okay.
所以如果我们没必要，就不用去针对他们。
So we're knocking out any of them if we don't need to.
他们随时都可以来。
They're welcome to anytime.
我们会把他们当作盟友来支持。
We'll support them as allies.
但我猜，因为你话里话外都在绕，那些人其实参与了，却没有把这些跨性别条款纳入预算法案中。
But I I assume that those people just because you're kind of talking around it, like, those people are involved and and not including these trans riders in the budget bills.
还是他们只是不想惹麻烦？
Or they just didn't want the fight?
他们不想惹麻烦，因为这事让他们觉得不舒服。
They don't want the fight because it feels icky.
有些人曾对我说过，要打这些仗。
Some have said to me to have these fights.
有一些人在幕后提供了帮助。
There are some people who are helpful behind the scenes.
有一些人有投票记录，曾反对过国会通过的最恶劣的反跨性别法案，即玛乔丽·泰勒·格林提出的法案，该法案本会将父母和医生因遵循医疗最佳实践而监禁，并将政府干预这些高度私人的医疗决策。
There are some people who have a record where they have voted against, for instance, the most egregious anti trans bill that has ever come before congress, which was that Marjorie Taylor Greene bill that would have literally imprisoned parents and doctors for following medical best practices and inserted the government into those deeply personal health care divisions.
他们对此已有公开记录。
They're on the record publicly on it.
我想回头再谈秘密国会的事，但既然我们现在在谈跨性别议题，那就先放一放。
I wanna come back to the secret congress, but not since we're since we're doing the trans stuff.
我还有几件事想说。
I just have a couple other things.
好的。
Sure.
我假设《堡垒》播客的听众都知道你是跨性别者，但我本该提前说明一下，以便大家都能充分理解这里的语境。
I assume bulwark podcast listeners are familiar with the fact that you're trans, but I thought maybe I should have said that beforehand just, you know, so everybody knows it's fully contextualized here.
关于玛乔丽·泰勒·格林这一方，你已经提到了她几次。
On the Marjorie Taylor Greene side of it, so you've mentioned her a couple times.
你对玛乔丽·泰勒·格林的立场转变怎么看？她上了《观点》节目，而民主党人却对她的批评敞开怀抱。
Where are you at on the Marjorie Taylor Greene's face turn and the fact that that she's on the view and of democrats are kind of welcoming her criticism with open arms.
所以，堡垒播客的听众们对此很关注，这让你感到不舒服吗？
So the fuss at the bulwark are, does that rub you the wrong way?
我会接受她对特朗普的分歧，尤其是在这个问题的背景下，我欢迎这些不同意见。
I'll take her disagreements with Trump and certainly welcome those disagreements in the context of that issue.
但我们绝不能幻想，玛乔丽·泰勒·格林在95%的事情上仍然是原来的那个玛乔丽·泰勒·格林。
But I think we should be under no illusions that Marjorie Taylor Greene on 95% of things is still the same Marjorie Taylor Greene.
过去一年我们看到的情况是，我认为她离开国会并不是为了未来竞选职位而精心策划的一步。
And that what we've seen over the last year look, I think her departure from congress was not some master plan to set herself up for future office.
我认为这确实是她和家人因总统而面临人身威胁的直接后果。
I think it it genuinely was a byproduct of the physical threats that she and her family were facing from the president.
无论她过去是否助长了这种政治氛围，制造了对他人类似的威胁，这都不重要。
And whether or not she contributed to that over the years, that kind of politics, to those types of threats against other people, that does not matter.
她不该遭受这些威胁。
She should not face those threats.
她的家人也不应该面临这些威胁。
Her family should not face those threats.
我认为，除此之外，我们所看到的玛乔丽·泰勒·格林所谓的转变，是她真心秉持‘美国优先’理念的一种混合表现。
I think beyond that, the evolution that we've seen, quote unquote, of Marjorie Taylor Greene is a mix of genuine, you know, she's America first, quote unquote.
共和党内部正在发生一场斗争，一方是新的MAGA建制派，另一方是美国优先派。
And there is a battle going on in the Republican Party between the new Republican MAGA establishment and the America Firsters.
我认为两者之间确实存在真实而真诚的分歧。
And I think there is a real disagreement there, genuine authentic disagreement there.
这种分歧体现在诸如埃普斯坦案和《平价医疗法案》税收抵免等问题上。
And it is manifested on things like Epstein and the ACA tax credits.
我还觉得，她背后也有一丝私利动机——她想向那些曾轻视她的人证明，尤其是共和党议会中许多其他女性，她有能力自我调整，成为一名有效的州级政治人物，而这些人确实曾轻视过她。
I also think that there is a bit more of a self interest in motivation where she wants to prove to these people who have dismissed her, frankly, many of the other women in the Republican caucus, that she is capable of moderating herself and that she could be an effective politician statewide, which they did dismiss.
我认为这也是她登上《观点》节目，以及去CNN等媒体进行宣传巡访的部分原因。
And I think that's part of why she's going on The View and why she's, you know, going on CNN and and and doing that media tour.
是的。
Yeah.
我认为，她在95%的问题上立场一致，这反而让她的批评更有价值，这就是我的看法。
I I think that the fact that she's the same on 95% of issues actually makes her criticism valuable That's what I think.
是的。
Yes.
我认为这并不意味着她一定是个好人，或者那种你愿意约去吃早午餐的人，但她的立场很重要，因为这是真诚的。
I think doesn't make her necessarily a good person or somebody that, like, you know, that, you know, you wanna go to brunch with, but it is important because it's it's genuine.
而且我认为，或许存在产生共鸣的可能。
And I think maybe there's a chance of resonating.
是的。
Yes.
同意。
Agree.
另一个热点问题是，上周 Axios 的一些人决定，在所有全球和国内危机之中，我们必须联系20位民主党政治人物，询问他们是否认为男人可以变成女人。
The other kind of hot button on this is the folks at Axios last week decided that this was the moment amidst all of the the global and domestic crises that we had to reach out to 20 democratic politicians and ask them if they think a man can become a woman.
然后他们写了一篇义愤填膺的文章，说只有一个人回复了，还说民主党人根本不知道该如何应对这个问题。
And then they wrote a outraged article about how only one replied and how, like, the Democrats aren't sure how to deal with this question.
我在社交媒体上嘲讽了这一点，觉得这太荒谬了，你也看得出为什么这会成为一个引爆点。
I mocked that on social media as ridiculous, And you can see why this becomes such a flashpoint.
你能明白为什么你会成为争议的中心，因为有很多MAGA支持者在问：你为什么就不能直接回答呢？
You can see why you end up being at the center of a flashpoint because it's like, I have an insane number of MAGA people, you know, doing the why can't you just answer it?
我有自己的想法和建议，但我很好奇，如果2028年有位总统候选人给你打电话，问你：当别人提出这个充满愤怒的诱饵问题时，我该怎么回应？
I have my own thoughts and suggestions on this, but I'm wondering, you know, if somebody running for president 2028 called you and said, what what should I say when they asked this stupid rage bait question?
你会怎么告诉他？
What would you tell them?
我觉得你可以这么说：听着。
I think you can say, look.
我知道你在这里想干什么。
I know what you're trying to do here.
我知道你是在设陷阱，想抓我话柄。
I know you're trying to have a gotcha moment.
我知道你只是想为自己制造一个话题。
I know you're trying to have a moment here for yourself.
对于少数跨性别者来说，他们可以采取一些步骤来实现性别转换。
For a small number of people who are transgender, there are steps they can take to transition.
但我认为，这个问题的核心，以及那些怀有善意、希望了解我观点的人所关注的，是想知道我是否认为跨性别女性与生理性别为女性的女性之间存在差异。
But I think at the crux of the the the question and for people with goodwill who who who are interested in my answer here, I think they're they are looking to see whether I believe there are differences between transgender women and women who are born female.
是的，确实存在差异。
And yes, there are differences.
没有人否认这些差异的存在。
And no one is denying that those differences exist.
无论你是否认为这些差异应该影响某些政策，我想我们所有人都可以同意，人们应当被以尊严和尊重对待，我们不应该欺凌一小群只是努力充分生活、成为社会贡献者的人。
And regardless of whether you think those differences should impact certain policies or not, I think all of us can agree that people should be treated with dignity and respect and that we shouldn't be bullying a small group of people who are just trying to live their lives to the fullest and be contributing members of society.
我认为这是一个很好的回答。
I think that that's a great answer.
让我感到沮丧的是这个问题本身，而我生气的原因也正是你提到的这一点。
And, like, the thing that frustrates me about the question and why I got mad is to your is to that point.
对吧？
Right?
在这方面，确实有一些严肃的、实际的政策问题需要应对。
It's like there are serious, like, real policy questions that need to be navigated on this front.
对吧？
Right?
比如，关于体育、医疗治疗，或者我们可以讨论的许多其他问题。
Like, you know, whether it be around, you know, sports or medical treatment or, you know, we we could, you know, talk about a number of issues.
但这个问题，其实就是‘男人能变成女人吗？’
But, like, that question is, you know, can a man become a woman?
这其实是一个语义问题，试图用它来羞辱和让别人难堪。
Is like a is a semantic question that that that is trying to use to humiliate people and embarrass them.
你
You
知道吗？
know?
是的。
Yes.
对我来说，这就是我获得支持的原因。
And to me, that's why I get my backup.
所以我的直觉和反应是，嗯，一个女人能不能变成一个拥有马阿拉歌脸的女人？
And, like, why my my instinct and my response to that is, you know, kinda be like, can a can a woman board a woman become a Mar a Lago faced woman?
因为在我看来，他们似乎和真正的普通女性是完全不同的物种。
Because, like, they seem to be a different species to me than, like, an actual regular woman.
你知道，唐纳德·特朗普，我很想看看他不化妆、不做任何整形的样子。
And, you know, Donald Trump like, I'd love to see what Donald Trump looks like without, you know, any makeup or any work done.
我不确定他在我眼里还会不会像个男性领袖。
I I don't know that he would seem like an alpha male to me.
很多人为了让自己更自在，都会做一些改变。
Like, lots of people, like, do things to feel comfortable in their own skin.
但当我这么做时，有些人却说这削弱了跨性别者所经历的痛苦。
When I do that, though, some folks tell me that that, like, diminishes what trans folks go through.
所以我想知道，你能否原谅我继续讲这些笑话，或者你觉得这会淡化我们所面临的真正挑战？
And so I'm wondering if you give me, you know, absolution to continue making those jokes or if you think that diminishes the real challenges that we face here.
嗯，我不能代表别人，但我对这种观点感到自在。
Well, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm comfortable with that line of of argument.
对。
Right.
人们经常问我是否应该原谅他们讲同性恋笑话，我会自己判断。
People ask me to give them absolution for making gay jokes all the time, and I make a judgment.
我觉得这个可以。
I'm like, that one's okay.
这个不行。
That one's not okay.
所以，你知道，你不能代表所有人，但这就是我想知道的。
So, you know, you can't speak for everybody, but that's what I'm wondering.
目前我认为，这是一场对我们权利的全面攻击。
I am of the mind at this point that, like, this is an all out assault on our rights.
我的意思是，除非公众舆论制止，否则这些人会不遗余力地针对跨性别者，而我乐于利用任何可用的论点来保护当下脆弱的人群。
I mean, they will nothing will stop these people in going to extreme ends in their pursuit of targeting trans people other than public opinion, and I am happy to have any argument at our disposal to defend vulnerable people in this moment.
一些最有力量的论点其实是幽默的论点，而我已经不再使用我手头的工具了，因为它们经不起每一个抽象学术论点的审视。
And some of the most powerful arguments are humorous arguments, and I am done with dispensing tools at my disposal because they don't hold up under the scrutiny of every single abstract academic argument.
很好。
Great.
谢谢你的宽恕。
Thanks for the absolution.
如果我开始过火了，记得告诉我，因为有时候，你知道，我的论点会变得有点激动和失控。
Let me know if I start getting overboard because sometimes, you know, sometimes I get a little hot and little hot and loose in my arguments.
我想，关于这一点，我其实并不在乎那些想要去人性化的混蛋来攻击我。
I guess the only other thing about this is I don't really care about the assholes who wanna dehumanize people attacking me.
举个例子，我就直接用她的名字吧，因为她自己也公开说过，玛蒂娜·阿夫拉蒂洛娃是个自由派。
You know, for example, I'll just use her name because she says as a public guy, Martina Avratilova is a liberal.
她是我成长于科罗拉多州时，同性恋权利运动的真正先驱。
She was a, really, like, a pioneer in gay rights activism, you know, when I was growing up in Colorado.
她在这事上对我施加了很大压力，直接说：不。
And she was pushing back on me pretty hard, like, on this and saying, like, no.
这其实是个重要问题，因为我们必须保护女性专属空间，这方面需要有明确的规则。
This is actually an important question because we need to protect women only spaces, and there need to be rules around this.
所以我接受这种反馈——我不知道别人的心思，但我更重视这种反馈，而不是那些只想博取点击量的《每日电讯》播客主持人的意见。
And so I I I take that I I don't know what is anybody's heart, but I I take that feedback more than I take the feedback from a Daily Wire podcaster who's just trying to get clicks.
你知道的吧？
You know?
所以我只是想知道，如果你遇到这种情况，会有什么反应？
And so I just I do wonder what your reaction would be to to something like that.
我认为我在给你的回复中已经谈到这一点了：让我们明确一下这个问题被提出的方式和背后的动机——这显然是在利用跨性别群体来得分，但同时我们也得承认，有些人怀有善意和良好意图，他们有疑问，想理解，可能在80%的跨性别议题上与我立场一致，但在另外20%上存在分歧，这些人依然可能感到好奇。
Well, I think I I got to that in in the response that I gave you, which is like, let's be clear about the motivation for the question being asked in the way it's being asked in the format that it's being asked in, which is clearly an effort to score a point on the backs of trans people while recognizing that there are people who have good will and good intentions and have questions and wanna understand and might be with me on on 80% of, you know, trans issues, but not with me on 20% of trans issues, that those folks still might be curious.
事实上，也有人想知道，如果他们的家人或朋友提出这样的问题，他们该怎样回应——这同样是出于善意，而不是一味地关闭对话。
And frankly, that there are people who will want to know what to say if their family member asks that question or their friend asks that question, again, in goodwill and person not just completely shutting down conversation.
我之前说过，我们可以承认跨性别者真实存在，这是真实的现象，跨性别者值得被以尊严和尊重对待，跨性别的身份和现实自古以来就存在于人类历史和各种文化中。
I think what I said earlier about we can acknowledge that trans people exist, that this is something that is real and that trans people are deserving of being treated with dignity and respect and that trans identities, trans reality has existed throughout human history across cultures.
这并不是什么新发明。
This is not a new invention.
这是我们所生活的世界和人类多样性的现实。
This is a reality of the world we live in and of the reality of human diversity.
请认识到，人们对特定政策问题有着不同的看法，我们可以就这些具体的政策问题展开理性的对话。
And recognize that there are specific policy questions that people have diversity of thought on and that we can engage in a in a reasonable conversation about about those particular policy issues.
我认为，归根结底，对于那些在某些问题上与部分跨性别者立场不同的人而言，他们真正关心的根本问题是：跨性别者是否认为跨性别女性与顺性别女性完全相同？
And I think at the end of the day, for those who come to a different place on on particular issues than than some trans people, the fundamental question that they're asking is, do trans people think that there is a difference, that that trans women are identical to nontrans women?
没有两个女性是完全相同的。
And no two women are the same.
是的，跨性别女性的平均经历与顺性别女性不同，在某些情况下，跨性别女性与出生时非跨性别女性的生活体验和政策问题上确实存在差异。
And, yes, trans women have a different experience on average than a nontransgender woman and that there are differences in the lived experience in the policy questions in some cases for a trans woman versus a woman who's not who wasn't born trans.
这是我对这个问题的最后一句话。
Here's my last thing on this.
显然，这个比喻是有局限性的。
And, obviously, there's some limits to this metaphor.
宗教不同于性别意识形态，而且每个人可能都会在某种程度上对这个比喻感到不适。
Like, religion is different than gender ideology, and, you know, everybody's gonna maybe offended at some level by this metaphor.
但我的意思是，即使我们不认同他人的世界观，尊重他人仍然非常重要。
But, like, I I just mean it in the sense of it's just important for us to have respect for other people even if we don't necessarily believe in their worldview.
我认为右翼人士在类似情境下会理解这一点，比如记者提出一个陷阱式问题：请举手。
And I think that right wing folks would understand this in the context of, like, it would be a gotcha question for a reporter to be like, raise your hand.
是或否。
Yes or no.
你相信地球是《圣经》中所描述的年龄吗？
Do you believe in the biblical age of the earth?
或者请举手。
Or raise your hand.
是或否。
Yes or no.
耶稣真的把水变成了酒吗？
Did Jesus really turn the water into wine?
或者你知道，显然这种比喻有其局限，但你能看出，这个问题源自一种嘲讽他们观点的意图。
Or I you know, like, obviously, are limits to this, but it's just like you could you see that that question comes from a place of mocking their point of view.
这正是让我觉得困扰的地方。
And, like, that's the thing that bugs me about it.
是的。
Yes.
我只是觉得，跨性别者的真实存在并不是一种哲学或意识形态上的分歧。
And I I just think, like, the reality, the existence of trans people is not a philosophical or ideological disagreement.
跨性别者确实存在，而且在人类历史中一直存在。
Trans people exist, and trans people have existed throughout human history.
关于具体政策，我们当然可以讨论。
And there might be conversations around specific policies.
但若以一种将跨性别者简化为意识形态问题的方式提问，归根结底是一种根本性的去人性化。
But a question framed and asked in a way that reduces trans people to an ideological question is fundamentally dehumanizing at the end of the day.
我们可以讨论政策，但把跨性别者贬低为某种哲学或政治行为，只会强化一种叙事，这种叙事不仅在政治言辞和政策中，也在我们的日常生活中，助长了对跨性别者的去人性化。
We can have a conversation about policy, but dehumanizing trans people into some sort of philosophical or political act only reinforces a narrative that allows for the dehumanization of trans people, not just in our political rhetoric, not just in policies, but in our day to day lives.
我跟你说过，我会以回到秘密国会以及你一直在推进的实际实质性工作来收尾。
I told you I'd close by going back to the secret congress and actual actual substantive things that that you've been working on.
你写过这个。
You wrote about this.
你在那里待了一年了。
Like, you've been there a year.
我们很多人，我相信甚至很多这个节目的听众，都觉得国会什么都没做。
A lot of us I'm sure even a lot of listeners of this show, it's like it feels like congress has done nothing.
迈克·约翰逊去度假了差不多九周左右。
Mike Johnson did go on vacation for, like, nine weeks or something.
对你来说一定很舒服吧。
That must have been nice for you.
我不确定你是不是在雷霍博斯，你在做什么，紫色鹦鹉。
I don't know if you were in Rehoboth, what you were doing, Purple Parrot.
但这么久的假期一定很惬意。
But, like, it must have been nice to be on vacation for so long.
但你也确实做了一些事情。
But you also have worked on some things.
所以我想给你一个机会谈谈你所做的事情，以及迈克·约翰逊因 Epstein 事件而长期休假如何限制了为民众做更多事情的能力。
And so I guess just I wanted to give you a chance to talk about what you worked on and and maybe also the ways that Mike Johnson's extended stay vacation because of Epstein has limited the ability to do more things for folks.
当然。
Sure.
事实上，我根本没有休假。
Well, I I certainly wasn't on vacation.
实际上，我和大家一样，每天都来上班。
In fact, I was I was down here showing up for work like we all should have been.
一次都没去 Purple Parrot 吃早午餐。
Not one brunch at the Purple Parrot.
迈克·约翰逊休假期间，你一次都没在 Purple Parrot 喝醉过。
Not one drunk on the Purple Parrot during the Mike Johnson vacation.
我不这么认为。
Well, I don't think so.
但即使我去了，那也是工作相关的出席。
But if I did, it was a work appearance.
我当时正在我的选区里与选民们在一起。
I was being amongst my constituents.
好的。
Okay.
我认为，人们很容易打开新闻或社交媒体，就以为国会里什么都没发生。
I do think that it is easy for people to turn on the news, open social media, and just think nothing is happening in congress.
确实，国会里做的事情还不够多。
And certainly not enough is happening in congress.
由于这些多数派，国会里发生了许多糟糕的事情。
A lot of bad things are happening in congress with these majorities.
但我们仍然能够做一些事情，而且我们仍然能够一起合作。
And there are some things that we are still able to do, and we are still able to do together.
正如我前面提到的，我提出的两党法案比任何其他新任议员都多。
As I mentioned earlier, I have been able to introduce more bipartisan bills than any other freshman legislation.
我是第一个提出法案的新任议员。
I was the first freshman to introduce legislation.
这是一项保护全国民众免受所谓信用修复机构侵害的法案，这些机构收取高额预付费用，却做出虚假承诺，实际上根本无法修复个人的信用评分。
It was legislation protecting people across this country from these so called credit repair organizations that charge these large upfront fees on false promises end up doing nothing to actually repair a person's credit score.
这是我当选一周后提出的两党合作法案。
That's a bipartisan bill I introduced one week after getting sworn in.
我提出了支持小企业、维护国际人权、扩大产假期间员工工作保障的多项法案。
I've introduced legislation supporting small businesses, upholding human rights internationally, legislation that expands workplace protections for folks who are out on family leave.
我们成功推动了保护特拉华州农民并降低消费者杂货店购物成本的法案。
We've been able to introduce legislation protecting Delaware farmers and lowering the costs for consumers at the grocery store.
我们还为我的选民争取到了切实的投资——数千万美元用于特拉华州的关键项目；同时，作为我的职责之一，我也在进行选民倡导，帮助那些联系我办公室寻求帮助的特拉华州居民，比如解决退税、退伍军人福利或社会保障金等问题。
And we've been able to get real investments for my constituents, both investments, tens of millions of dollars in investments to critical projects here in Delaware, but also part of my job is doing constituent advocacy, the individual Delawareans who reach out to my office to get help with a tax refund or a veterans benefit or a Social Security check.
在一年内，我们已为民众追回了四百万美元。
And in a year, we've gotten $4,000,000 back to people.
所有这些，都是通过一人一事、一策一策地推进，不仅为人们带来切实的成果，也帮助维持人们对民主仍能为他们带来改变、政府仍能为他们服务的信心。
All of this comes together person by person, policy by policy, to not only deliver tangible things for people, but in so doing, help to maintain people's faith that democracy can still deliver for them, that government can still work for them.
尽管这还不够，我也确实在今年十一月希望民主党赢得多数席位，以便我们能推动更大的变革，但在当下，我们不能放弃眼前那些虽未登上头条、却依然存在的进步可能。
And while it's not enough and while I certainly want a Democratic majority in in November elected so that we can do big things, in this moment, we can't give up on the possibilities for progress that are before us, even if they aren't grabbing headlines.
因为我认为，在当下，我们政治中的一个问题在于，我们彼此之间以及对政府为公共利益采取行动的能力都缺乏信任与信心。
Because I think in this moment, the problem one of the problems in our politics is that we have a trust and a faith deficit in one another and in government's capacity to do anything for the public good.
而在此刻，如果我们想要为民主而战，想要捍卫一种属于人民、依靠人民、为了人民的政府体制，我们就必须坚持两件事。
And in this moment, if we are to fight for democracy, if we are to fight for our a system of government that is of the people and by the people and for the people, then we have to maintain two things.
第一，我们要相信政治可以成为推动善与进步的力量，因为一旦失去这种信念，我们就会转向愤怒驱动的娱乐化政治，同时保持对彼此的信任。
One, our faith that politics can be a force for good and progress because in the absence of that, we turn to a politics of of anger tainment and maintain our belief in one another.
因为民主只有在我们相信他人具备改变能力的前提下才能存在。
Because democracy can only exist if we maintain our faith in other people's capacity to change.
这很难，而我们社会中如今的种种力量正试图将我们分裂，试图让我们放弃对政治、对政府、对彼此的信念。
And that is hard, and we have every force in our society right now trying to push us apart, trying to tell us to give up on politics, on government, and on one another.
如果这种局面得逞，那些如今拥有过多权力的威权势力，就将取得最终的胜利。
And if that succeeds, the authoritarian forces that we see right now that have way too much power, that will be their final victory.
而这正是核心所在。
And that is at the heart.
这正是我每天醒来时都在思考的问题。
That is what I wake up every single day thinking about.
我们如何实现？
How do we deliver?
我们如何在分歧中进行对话？
How do we have conversations across disagreement?
我们如何参与社会变革、政治变革和政策变革的艺术？
How do we engage in the art of social change, in in political change, in policy change?
因为此刻，这真的会影响人们的生活，而且这也是我们为子孙后代保存政府体制和自由社会的唯一途径。
Both because in this moment, it makes a real difference in people's lives and because it is the only way for us to preserve the system of government and this free society for generations to come.
当然！
Hell yeah.
我非常感谢你，姑娘。
I appreciate it very much, girl.
非常感谢你来参加这个节目。
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我们再来一次吧。
And let's do it again.
我们还没聊到特拉华州的事。
We didn't get to do Delaware talk.
也许我们可以找个时候去雷霍博斯做点什么。
Maybe we should do something in Rehoboth sometime.
好吗？
Alright?
我可以带你去看看我以前常去的地方。
We can I can show you my old haunts?
你也可以带我去看看你最喜欢的新地方。
You can show me that your favorite new spots.
我有一阵子没去那儿了。
I haven't been there in a hot minute.
我们可以一起去。
We can we can go
一起去紫鹦鹉。
to the Purple Parrot together.
好的。
Alright.
听起来不错。
Sounds good.
非常感谢。
Thanks so much.
谢谢。
Thank you.
议员莎拉·麦布赖德。
Representative Sarah McBride.
我们很快会再做的。
We'll be doing it again soon.
她太棒了。
She's amazing.
我们明天还会回来，带来另一位重量级嘉宾。
We'll be back tomorrow with another power player.
我想你会喜欢的。
I think you'll be enjoying it.
所以请继续关注。
So stick around.
那我们到时候见。
We'll see you all then.
和平。
Peace.
开始憎恨我的身体以及它所需的一切
Come to hate my body and all that it requires
在这个世界上。
in this world.
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