2025年时尚与美容人才向往的工作

大家好，欢迎来到《时尚商业》的简报会，每周我们都会与撰写报道的记者们深入探讨最受欢迎的BOF专业故事。我是高级记者Sheena Butler Young。疫情爆发五年以来，时尚职场经历了翻天覆地的变化。在地缘政治紧张、经济动荡和气候危机加剧的背景下，职场正在经历一场反思——员工们重新评估工作中真正重要的是什么。如今，人才比以往任何时候都更加躁动不安。

Hello and welcome to the debrief from the Business of Fashion where each week we delve into our most popular BOF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young. In the five years since the pandemic, fashion workplaces have undergone seismic change. Set against a backdrop of geopolitical tension, economic volatility and a deepening climate crisis, a workplace reckoning is underway with employees reevaluating what truly matters at work. Today, talent is more restless than ever.

根据BOF Careers最新报告，职场满意度处于低位，近半数专业人士正在积极寻找新工作。今天与我们连线的是BOF Careers编辑Sophie Soar，她共同撰写了《2025职业报告》，将解析当下时尚美妆人才对雇主的期望，以及企业如何满足这些新需求。嗨Sophie，欢迎回到《简报播客》。

Job satisfaction is low and nearly half of professionals are actively seeking new roles, according to BOF Careers new report. Joining us today is BOF Careers editor Sophie Soar, who co authored the 2025 Careers Report to break down what fashion and beauty talent want from employers today and how companies can meet these new expectations. Hi Sophie, welcome back to the Debrief Podcast.

嗨Sheena，谢谢邀请。

Hi Sheena, thanks for having me.

我们能否从报告中那个令人震惊的数据开始——约45%的时尚美妆从业者正在积极寻找新工作机会。这些人是在LinkedIn上随便点击'快速申请'打发时间？还是真的在'我讨厌现在的工作，急需跳槽'的状态？请帮我们理解这个现象。

So can we start with that figure that I think jumped out at everybody on this report, which is that about 45% of professionals in fashion and beauty are actively seeking new job opportunities. Is this people like going on LinkedIn and clicking on easy apply, like throughout their day casually? Or is this people like really, I hate my job. I'm looking for something new right now. Help us understand.

当然。我们想区分你刚才提到的这些细微差别。我们既想了解在本公司内部寻找机会的人，也想掌握外部求职者的情况。同时关注那些对现状满意不打算跳槽，以及被动观望的人群。我们还特意对比了其他关于职场满意度的调研，以校准数据基准。

So absolutely. We wanted to understand the sort of distinction across those different nuances as you just mentioned there. We wanted to know who was actively looking for new opportunities both in their current company and also outside of it. We also wanted to know who was potentially quite happy in their current role, and as a result, not looking, but also those who are passively looking. And we actually wanted to understand in comparison to other surveys that is looking at general satisfaction in jobs to see where this response sort of leveled out.

我们参考了职场咨询公司盖洛普的最新数据：全球多行业50%的在职员工表示正在积极求职或观望机会。而我们的调研显示45%的时尚从业者正在积极求职——虽略低于50%，但尚未计入观望人群。不过另有36%表示虽不主动求职，但可能近期考虑变动。这部分更接近...

So we looked at Gallup, the workplace consultancy, and the latest data that they have found that 50% of currently employed workers, this is across multiple industries and countries, say that they are actively seeking or watching for a new job. So in terms of then what we found in our survey, we found that 45% of working professionals are actively looking for new opportunities. So it's not that far behind that 50%, but this doesn't account for the watching for part of Gallup survey. We did, however, also find that 36% of working professionals are not looking for a new job, but may consider a change in the near future. So I'm thinking that's a little bit more like that.

那种被动浏览LinkedIn，随意查看可能感兴趣的职位状态，我认为最接近盖洛普定义的'观望'范畴。但最让我惊讶的是，只有4%的受访者表示正在现公司内部寻求转岗——这个比例其实相当低。

Passively scrolling through LinkedIn, seeing potentially what may or may not resonate, and that I think could be most compared to that sort of watching for reference. But, you know, what I was really most interested in actually coming out of that particular aspect of the survey was that only four percent of working professionals were actively seeking a new job at their current place of work, which is actually a pretty low number.

你们的职业调研覆盖范围很广，涉及千余名各级别时尚美妆从业者。请先说明方法论，然后我想了解驱动人们在LinkedIn频繁点击'快速申请'的宏观趋势。

And so you this this career support is quite expansive. You wanna talk us through it's about over a thousand employees that currently work in fashion and beauty across all levels or most levels. Talk us through sort of the methodology, and then I wanna hear about those macro trends that are driving people to be on LinkedIn double clicking easy apply.

好的。我们调研了超千名时尚美妆从业者，样本分布均衡：20-29岁占30%，30-39岁同样占30%，40-49岁20%，50岁以上19%。各职级占比也很平均，这很棒。

Sure. Absolutely. We basically surveyed over a thousand individuals across fashion and beauty, and we got a pretty well balanced response actually. About 30% of respondents were aged twenty to twenty nine, 30% again, thirty to thirty nine, 20%, forty to forty nine, and then about 19% were 50. It was really evenly split across different seniority levels as well, which was great to see.

我们还希望体现全球行业状况，最终收到来自74个国家和地区的回复，样本覆盖面非常广泛。

And then we wanted to sort of understand across the global industry as well, and we got responses from 74 countries and territories represented. So it was a very, very broad subset of individuals that responded.

宏观经济如何影响当下人们对时尚职场环境的感受或实际运作方式？我在开场提到过几个因素，比如地缘政治气候。显然，我们——或许该说‘才’——进入混合办公模式已有五年。如今职场还同时存在五代人，这是前所未有的情况。

And how are the macroeconomics affecting how people feel right now about the fashion workplace or how the fashion workplace actually operates today? I mentioned a few of these in the introduction like the geopolitical climate. Obviously, we're only maybe I mean, I'm saying only, but we're five years into this hybrid work model situation. We also have five generations in the workplace now. We've never had that before.

请比我刚才更详细地阐述下宏观背景。

Talk us through the macro backdrop in a little more detail than what I just did.

好的。这正是我们报告开篇的内容，因为必须明确过去五年间发生的剧变量级。我们指出的几个关键宏观趋势包括财务不安全感——正如你提到的宏观经济波动正引发当前劳动力的普遍忧虑，不分地域和代际。人们担忧自身财务安全。在Bay Of Korea调查中，薪酬已成为评估雇主的最重要因素，这虽不意外，但值得注意这种财务不安的普遍背景。

Sure. So this is what we opened the report with because it's definitely important to try and contextualize how much change has happened literally over the last five years alone. And a couple of the sort of key macro trends that we called out includes financial insecurity, you just mentioned there about the sort of macroeconomic volatility that's really driving concern for today's workforce, sort of irrespective of geography and generation. They are concerned about their financial security. Pay was the most important factor when assessing an employer today for respondents of the Bay Of Korea survey, which perhaps is is unsurprising, but it's just worth noting that sort of backdrop of financial insecurity and concern.

另外几个关键趋势包括员工对重返办公室的真实需求——但需按他们的条件。他们强烈渴望社群连接。关于办公偏好调研显示，多数人倾向混合制（每周2-3天到岗），完全远程或全勤办公的支持率很低，且各代际分布均衡。

But a couple of other sort of key macro trends that we also looked at to included this real demand for actually being back in the office, but on the employee's terms, I would say. You know, they're really craving community. When we asked about preferences for being in the office or not, the majority said that they would prefer a hybrid schedule. So three or two days in the office, fully remote or fully in the office, actually received pretty low scores. And that was that was pretty well spread across different generations too when we looked at the age cohort breakdowns.

背后的驱动因素包括：接近领导层以获得职业发展机会、曝光度、学习资源和高效沟通。但更广泛而言，后疫情时代的孤独感（尤其是年轻群体）催生了对社群的渴求。英国慈善机构Oxfam今年针对Z世代的调查显示，47%常感孤独，28%缺乏社群归属感。考虑到人们在职场投入的时间，就不难理解为何办公室需求正在回潮。

A couple of the sort of real motivating factors behind that included this idea of proximity to leadership managers and actually just those that you're collaborating with for career development opportunity, for exposure, for learning, for improved communication. But also, just generally speaking, we're seeing this real need for community because loneliness post pandemic is a key issue, especially among younger generations. There was one survey that that we looked at outside of our own, which was conducted by a UK charity called Oxfam this year around Gen Z, and they found that forty seven percent of Gen Z often feel lonely, with twenty eight percent saying that they do not feel connected to a community. So if you think about how much time you spend at work and how much time you spend in trying to foster that community at work, you can see why the office is actually in demand again, I think.

有趣的是，报告显示Z世代出人意料地引领着重返办公室的诉求。但与之矛盾的是，每当企业要求每周4-5天到岗时总会遭遇阻力。关键差异在于‘按他们的条件’——如何解释员工既想回归又抗拒强制返岗？是否企业未能满足人才期待？

Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, I saw in the report that Gen Z, to some people's surprise are the ones sort of leading this demand to be a little more, present in the office. We hear this and I want you to help us reconcile this against the fact that you see this, these reports that come out that says, you know, XYZ companies demanding four days a week back in the office or five days back a week in the office, the operative set of words was on their terms. Reconcile this for us that employees want to be back, but there's always a pushback when there is a return to the office. Is it that the companies are not showing up the way that they expect the talent to?

问题核心在于：仅提供带桌椅和WiFi的物理空间，并不能培育真正的社群文化和高效工作环境。优化办公室体验至关重要，而报告中凸显的另一个主题是——领导层必须以身作则。

I think it's actually a question of, yes, you can provide that space. You can provide an office and you can tell people that they have to come into the office. But if you are just providing a space that has a few desks and WiFi, that is not creating the right kind of environment, the right kind of setup for community as well as a comprehensive and effective working culture. So as a result, it is about trying to optimize that in office experience. And I think one of the most critical components within that that came out as another key theme across the report is leadership and leadership turning up.

若要求员工返岗，领导者必须同步现身。通过亲身示范来展现参与度，才能有效带动管理团队共同培养人才。

If you want employees to be back in the office, then leaders need to be there as well. They need to lead by example and demonstrate that by turning up, you have that ability to to show up and to really engage those executives or or even managers as well who are going to be working with you and developing you as a as a talent.

关于职场五代同堂现象，这将如何影响2025年的社群构建和工作模式？从婴儿潮一代到Z世代，甚至即将实习的Alpha世代——机遇与摩擦点何在？

And on the point of the five generations in the workplace today, how does that affect how people build community or how the workplace operates in 2025? We've got boomers, we've got Gen Z and maybe some younger Gen Alpha coming or older Gen Alpha coming in as interns. What does that look like? What are the opportunities and what are the friction points?

Sheena，正如我们常讨论的：五代差异看似巨大，但报告发现按人口特征划分世代并非最有效方式。例如泛泛而言，Z世代兴起清醒社交（你曾报道过），疫情期间迁居者可能成为需要特殊考量的新手父母——这些需求差异远超代际标签。

So I know this is something that you and I have spoken about a lot in the past, Sheena. As you mentioned, you know, five generations is on paper a lot of differences to account for and to think about. But actually, something that we explored within the report is the fact that actually segmenting generations by demographic needs isn't necessarily the most effective way of trying to understand what different generations want and need in a workplace. So for instance, we if you're gonna make generalizations and think about it, we know that there is a rise in sober socializing, something that you've reported on before among Gen Z talent. We know that a number of individuals who may have moved further afield during the pandemic will become parents, who may need to think about some of the different needs that they have.

我们可能需要为职场中经历更年期的女性需求提供便利，这通常涉及较高年龄段，但并非绝对。关键在于认识到这些需求不应被简单地套入代际刻板印象——并非所有Z世代都热衷清醒社交或沉迷健身，也并非所有婴儿潮一代都坚持回归办公室。实际上，我们在调研中发现，50岁以上群体对混合办公模式的兴趣与年轻同事不相上下。因此，提升职场体验更应关注价值观与兴趣的适配，而非按人口统计学特征进行划分。

We may be accommodating for women's needs when they experience the menopause, potentially an older age, but not necessarily an older age in the workplace. So it's about recognizing that that needs don't necessarily fit into convenient generational stereotypes because not all Gen Z are gonna be sober socializing or interwelds and fitness. Not all baby boomers are insisting on being back in the office. In fact, we saw that for 50, they actually, in terms of the age group that we surveyed, we actually saw that they were just as interested in a hybrid working experience than their younger counterparts. So it's more about accommodating for values and interests rather than segmenting by different demographics when thinking about how to potentially target a improved working experience across your workplace.

这与当下许多营销人员的做法不谋而合——关注心理特征而非人口统计特征。

And that falls in line with what a lot of marketers are doing today. It's the psychographics, not the demographics,

正是如此。

Exactly.

除了办公室办公的灵活性外，我想探讨现代劳动力还追求什么。你提到薪酬确实至关重要——我们之前讨论过，在某个临界点之前薪资是最重要的，之后公司提供的附加福利和价值主张就会愈发关键。有趣的是，目前薪酬在员工诉求中似乎占据超乎寻常的比重，这是为什么？

So I want to talk about what today's workforce wants in addition to the flexibility in terms of being in the office, not being in the office. You mentioned that compensation is really, really important. You're right that you and I have had these conversations before, so I know and you can correct me and give me more context here that pay is the most important thing up until a certain point and then the fringe benefits, everything else that the company offers and their value proposition becomes that much more important. What is interesting right now is pay seems like it's having an outsized importance in terms of employee demands. Why is that?

我认为这仍与经济不安全感相关，同时也源于人们开始认知自我价值。他们要求根据经验与专业能力获得相应报酬。数据显示44%的受访者认为所得报酬低于劳动价值。值得注意的是，尽管Z世代常被批评对薪酬抱有不切实际的期待，但相比年长群体，他们反而较少抱怨薪资过低。

I think that again links back to the financial insecurity, but also the fact that individuals are recognizing their worth. They are making their demands for saying I should be paid for the experience and the expertise that I have. We did find that 44% of individuals across the board believe that they are under compensated for their work. So there is obviously a sense of that. It is worth noting that even though and something again you and I have spoken about before, even though Gen Z tend to get this bad rap that they are being unrealistic in terms of their pay expectations and compensation expectations, they actually displayed not necessarily the greatest satisfaction, I suppose, but they were less likely to say that they felt under compensated compared to their older counterparts.

他们似乎更愿意接受较低薪资，因为自知职场经验不如年长者。当前宏观经济环境下的不安全感确实凸显了薪酬的重要性——某些地区刚走出生活成本危机，有些仍深陷其中。但更关键的是，员工们正在觉醒，要求获得与自身价值匹配的报酬。

They seemed to be more willing to accept lower pay in exchange for the fact that they understand they don't have as much experience as their older counterparts in the workplace. So I think it's worth understanding there's obviously paying compensation is important because of the macroeconomic climate and the fact that there is insecurity. Obviously, we've come out of a cost of living crisis in some areas and other areas still very much in the middle of a cost of living crisis. So it's just worth bearing in mind that there is that pinch, but then there's also this understanding of the fact that employees, I think, are understanding and demanding to be paid for their worth much more now.

透明度在其中扮演什么角色？约五年前美国加州和纽约出台新规，要求企业公布职位薪资区间，当时这话题很热门但后来逐渐淡化。对你调研的对象而言，薪酬透明度有多重要？

What is the role of transparency in all of this? I remember around roughly five years ago when those new laws were coming out here in The States, California and New York, requiring companies to list those salary bands or, like, the highest versus the minimum pay they would offer for a role. And that felt very important, very topical. It sort of faded a little bit. How important is transparency in the pay conversation, to the people you surveyed?

透明度极其重要，Ashley。定量与定性数据都显示这是核心议题——70%受访者认为这是雇主职业发展策略中最关键的要素，同样适用于薪酬领域。书面评论中持续涌现对薪酬与晋升透明化的诉求。

Transparency was huge, Ashley. It was a major theme that came out both in the quantitative as well as the qualitative data. So 70% of respondents say that transparency is the most important component of an employer's approach to career progression. And then this also translates to pay as well. So we saw this in the written comments repeatedly coming out, a demand for both pay and career progression transparency.

我们为此专访了Prada集团首席人力官，她透露集团正在建立个人薪酬基准体系，让员工明确预期。这种信息公开能带来安全感。如你所说，各国情况不同——美国仅部分地区强制公开薪资区间，但全球越来越多企业正跟进这种做法，帮助员工比照公司内部及行业整体的薪酬水平。

It's something that we actually spoke to Prada Group's chief people officer about for the report, and she shared about how Prada Group is looking at benchmarking pay for each individual to understand their compensation so that employees know what is expected. It's something that can provide reassurance and security when that information is provided. As you mentioned as well, obviously, it is different from country to country in The US. It's a requirement to provide those bans, but it seems like a number of companies across the globe are catching up with that to try and provide that reassurance for individuals so that they can understand where their pay falls compared to, not just their colleagues within their company, but also in the wider industry as well.

目前可能仅限纽约和加州，我不愿夸大美国在薪酬透明化方面的进展，但至少这两个州约五年前已立法或接近立法。

Yeah. I think it might just be New York and California for now. I'm not sure, but I don't want to give the entire United States Of America too much credit on paid transparency. But I know the laws were put in place or close to being put in place in at least New York and California about five years ago.

不过同样值得注意的是，我认为很重要的一点是，许多公司和雇主觉得提供其他福利也很重要，无论是健身房补贴、折扣优惠，还是在你所服务的品牌内部享受福利，或是参加健康课程、健身课程等。但事实上，当我们询问受访者时，他们表示福利可能是他们最不优先考虑的事项。这确实不会产生实质影响。有固然好，但我觉得需要牢记的是，它完全不会改变根本选择。

So it's also worth noting as well, though, I think something that's important is that a lot of companies and employers feel like providing other benefits is important as well, whether that's sort of gym stipends or discounts you can get money off and whether it's within the brand that you're working for or, you know, going to a a wellness class or a fitness class or something like that. But actually, when we asked, respondents said that benefits were potentially the lowest priority for them. Like, it really does not move the needle. It's a nice to have, but I think it's also something that's important to bear in mind. It is not gonna move the needle at all.

这太有趣了。你是说周五的啤酒乒乓球活动？还是周二玫瑰喷泉福利？不。这对我来说并不意外。

That is so interesting. You mean the beer pong on Fridays? Was it gonna get people the rose fountain on Tuesdays? No. It's it's not surprising to me.

我确实认为这也取决于许多其他因素，比如公司所在地。如果你位于人口较少或非时尚中心的城市，不像那些大都市，有时这些福利对人们意义更大。有时公司会试图营造近乎大学校园的氛围来吸引员工。所以这可能也是影响因素之一。广告之后我们将继续《简报》的更多内容。

I do think that it depends on so many other things too, like the location of a company. If you're in one of those less populous or maybe not a fashion centric city like the big key city, sometimes those benefits mean more to people. Sometimes companies will try to create almost like a college campus setting to engage people. So that probably weighs in here. We'll be back with more of The Debrief right after this.

报告中另一个让我觉得有趣的点是关于价值观的讨论，以及这对当今时尚从业者的重要性。这个话题频繁出现，尤其是在疫情期间，当多样性、公平包容与可持续发展变得极其重要时。你会听到消费者，也包括时尚美妆行业的员工说这些真的非常非常重要——比如我希望在重视每个人价值的地方工作，不论种族、性别或性取向；我希望我的公司关心地球和气候，成为世界上的积极力量。

The other thing that I thought was interesting in the report is the conversation around values and how important that is to the fashion workforce today. This is a conversation that's cropped up a lot, especially around the pandemic when, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion was becoming really important, you know, alongside sustainability. You would hear consumers, but also employees in fashion and beauty say that these things are really, really important. Like, I want to work somewhere where people are valued regardless of race, gender, you know, sexual identity, all of those things. I want my company to care about the planet and the climate and be a good actor in the world.

但有时人们只是随便找份工作。那么在价值观方面我们现在处于什么阶段？它有多重要？是否有任何变化？

And then sometimes people just take a job. So where are we now in terms of values? How important is that? And is it changing at all?

确实。公司价值观和文化实际上是当今人们评估雇主时第二重要的优先事项。我们之后更细化地追问了在公司价值观和文化中最看重什么。工作与生活平衡是其中最重要的。

Sure. So company values and culture was actually the second most important priority to individuals when they were sharing their overarching priorities when assessing an employer today. So we do know that it is really important. We did then go into some more granular detail after that and asked a few more questions around what is it within company values and culture that you value the most. Work life balance was the biggest priority there.

我认为这与我们之前讨论的更大灵活性相呼应——要尊重员工的休息时间，承认他们在办公室和工作之外还有生活。但同样关键的是领导力因素。调查中当我们让受访者列出最想效力的时尚美妆公司时，领导者常被点名提及——比如香奈儿的林娜·奈尔，还有进入前十的布鲁内罗·库奇内利。

So I think that does sort of relate back to what we were talking about earlier with sort of trying to account for the the greater flexibility and ensuring that there is that sort of respect for people's time off, for accepting the fact that they have a life outside of the office and the work that they do. But also, a very critical part of company values and culture was leadership. That came out a lot. In fact, when we were asking individuals as a part of the survey to share which companies they would most like to work for within the fashion and beauty industries, leaders were quite often called out by name. Lina Nair at Chanel, for example, Brunello Cucinelli, which performed in the top 10.

这些领导者被单独指出对个人极具启发性，是选择公司的重要动机。排在第三的是价值观契合度——可以广义理解为是否与个人热衷的特定事业或文化思潮相契合。我们进一步细化询问了职场文化、多元化公平包容、ESG和可持续发展等具体方面，这些排名虽不高，但并不意味着受访者不重视。

They were called out individually as being very inspiring to individuals and a very motivating reason to want to work at a company. And then third after that was alignment of values. So we can think about that a little bit more broadly around whether you are particularly passionate about a certain cause or a certain cultural moment that's happening within the broader zeitgeist, for example, that is truly important to you as an individual. We went a little bit granular, more granular still, and we asked specifically about workplace culture, diversity, equity, inclusion, ESG and sustainability within this particular area. These didn't rank as highly, but I think it's important to mention that that does not mean it's not important to the respondents.

这些对员工仍然重要。只是当需要在优先考虑个人需求（如工作生活平衡）或日常共事的领导层之间做取舍时，他们会做出权衡。但正如我们更多研究显示的，这仍是企业非常重要的方面。

It is still important to employees. It's just that when they actually have to make that trade off between prioritizing their own individual needs, like work life balance, for example, or the leaders that they want to be working with on a day to day basis. They are making that trade off essentially, but it is still very important within a business, as came up in a lot more of our research.

完全同意。我敢说当发生严重不当事件，或出现政治敏感话题时，如果你的公司站错队，这个因素可能瞬间就跃居人们考量清单的首位。

Absolutely. And I bet when something really egregious happens or if there's a political flashpoint or something in the national discourse and your company's on the wrong side of it, then that probably just jumps up to the top of the list for people.

确实如此。对企业员工而言，这个问题确实会跃升至首位。因为试想一下，当公司或领导层随政治风向摇摆时，会给员工群体带来诸多困扰。部分原因在于，如果你曾确立过一套当时被视作重要的价值观或倡议，几年后又改变立场，这会给员工传递出极其强烈且往往令人困惑的信号。我想起一个例子——希娜你也报道过的——就是2020年乔治·弗洛伊德遇害后，随着'黑人的命也是命'运动再度兴起，首席多元化官职位的激增现象。当时时尚企业普遍开始认真对待多元化、公平与包容问题，这类职位招聘蔚然成风。

It does. It really does jump up to the top of the list for people because if we think about it, when your company or your leadership shifts with the political winds at the time, it can cause a lot of difficulty within your employee base. Part of that is because if you have set forward a particular set of values or initiatives that you have designated as important at the time, and then a few years later you have changed your approach to that, it sends a very strong and sometimes quite confused message to your workforce as a result. And I think one example of that, which I know you have covered, Sheena, as well, is the sort of rise of chief diversity officers back in 2020 after the murder of George Floyd, after the resurgence of the Black Lives Matter movement. Companies started taking diversity, equity, and inclusion more seriously, and these roles were quite commonly being hired for within fashion businesses.

然而五年后的今天，我们不仅在美国，更在全球范围内目睹了企业对DEI（多元化、公平与包容）倡议的全面倒退。这向员工和消费者传递的强烈信号是：此事已不在优先事项之列。这种转变不仅会打击员工士气，最终还可能损害企业利润。

However, five years later, we have obviously seen a global, not just within The US, but a global rollback on DEI initiatives and focuses for businesses. And as a result, it does send quite a strong message to your employees as well as your consumers as well that this has dropped down your priority list and you can really damage not just employee morale, but also your bottom line as well.

完全同意。这会让人感觉企业不值得信任——当初高调表态，结果短短五年（对许多公司甚至一两年）就改弦易辙。实际上我们现在已经不搞这套了。

Absolutely. It makes people think you can't be trusted to come out strong in one direction and just say five years later. For many companies, it wasn't. It was like a year or two. Actually, we're not into that anymore.

我还想谈谈你提到的那些入选最理想雇主榜单的公司。香奈儿和莉娜·奈尔的入选很有意思——后者拥有人力资源背景，是位以人为本的领导者，这很能说明当下员工的诉求。我们能聊聊榜单前十的其他企业吗？要不要我来揭晓这个...（敲鼓声）第一名？

I want to also talk about you mentioned, some of those companies that ranked in the most desirable places to work. I love that you said Chanel, came up and Lina Nair because she has that HR background. She's a very people centered leader, which says a lot about what employees want today. Can we talk about some of the other companies in that top 10? Should I break the, drum roll, please?

第一名是？

Number one?

榜首是LVMH集团。嗯。

Number one was LVMH. Mhmm.

具体原因有哪些？我们挑几个品牌聊聊吧。LVMH位居榜首的关键因素是什么？

And what were some of the reasons? We'll talk through just maybe just a handful of these names. LVMH was number one. What were some of the key themes there?

实际上调查显示，人们向往LVMH的首要原因是薪酬待遇。尽管据我所知LVMH并不公开薪资数据，但值得注意的是——正如我们早前讨论薪酬透明度时所说——即便企业不公开，员工很可能自行在Glassdoor等平台披露。所以求职者仍能获取相关信息。薪酬待遇是LVMH吸引人才的主因之一。

Actually, the key theme, the key reason why people said that they wanted to work at LVMH was around paying compensation. That was highest. Even though, as far as I understand it, LVMH do not publish their salaries, it is also worth bearing in mind when we were talking about pay and transparency earlier that if you don't publish it, your individual employees may well do so on Glassdoor. So it is still accessible for individuals at hand to be able to try and understand that. So pay and compensation was one of the motivating reasons behind LVMH.

而其他跻身前十的企业，雇主品牌与行业声誉起到了关键作用。有趣的是，上榜的香奈儿、爱马仕、迪奥、路易威登、普拉达等奢侈品牌中，Patagonia因可持续发展实践备受推崇——许多受访者在书面评价中特别提及这点。布鲁内罗·库奇内利也因其独特的领导风格入选，这个约3000人的意大利企业表现尤为亮眼。

But then across the board for a lot of the other businesses that performed well in that top 10, employer brand and industry reputation played a really key role there. It was quite interesting though, so other companies that performed well in that top 10 included Chanel, Hermes, Dior, Louerve, Prada, Patagonia is on there. They were particularly called out for their work around sustainability, which I think is understandable and a lot of individuals made reference to that in their written comments. And Brunello Cucinelli as well, as I mentioned too, was also called out for his particular leadership as well, which is interesting for a business that I believe has around 3,000 employees Italy. So they performed particularly well as well.

但报告中详细指出的重要发现是：虽然雇主品牌和行业声望是吸引人才的抽象因素——当被问及'为何认为某公司值得向往'时，地位与声望往往位居首位——但当我们深入探究求职者评估雇主的具体标准时，情况就...

But something that I think is important to note that we also detail a little bit more within the report is that employer branded industry prestige, as I said, is the leading reason for talent to want to work at a company in a sort of more abstract sense. When you're asked about, you know, what makes this company desirable? Why would you want to work there? Status and prestige is is likely gonna come out on top as we saw. However, when we actually get into, you know, when we were asking these individuals about assessing an employer and what made them likely to sort of want to work there rather than just this sort of, oh, wouldn't that be nice to

在那里工作？

work there?

没错。雇主品牌和行业声誉确实在优先级列表中进一步下滑，那时我们开始看到诸如支付补偿、公司价值观、灵活性和工作生活平衡等因素重新成为焦点。

Exactly. Employer brand and industry reputation really fell further down the priority list, and that's when we started seeing things like paying compensation, company values, flexibility, work life balance. That's where these then sort of came back to the fore.

绝对如此。在那里工作真的很棒。我们不会在每月30号付房租。我想在结束前，从员工的角度谈谈他们如何脱颖而出。我们列出了超过10家公司，但时尚行业确实有一些非常棒的工作场所。

Absolutely. It's really nice to work there. We'll not pay the rent on the thirtieth of the month. I wanna sort of, as we start to close things out, talk about from the employee standpoint, how they can stand out. So we have these this list of more than 10 companies, but there's some really great places to work in the fashion industry.

如果我是人才，显然我会请你用非常概括的方式来说。但如果我想在这些非常棒的地方工作，我该如何脱颖而出？你能做些什么来确保自己现在就被视为人才？

If I'm talent, obviously, I'm asking you to use a really broad strokes here. But how do I stand out if I wanna work at one of these, you know, really amazing places? What are the things you can do to make sure that you're, being sought out as talent right now?

我想我有些更通用的建议，因为你仍然会一次又一次地看到同样的问题出现，当求职者在申请时尚和美容行业的顶级雇主时，并不一定是在帮自己。首先，我知道这对很多听众来说非常明显，但对许多人来说，可能没有针对职位要求和当前需求，并非常明确地将其与你的经验联系起来。令人惊讶的是有多少人不这样做。而且，正如我们刚才讨论的，有些品牌因为人们多年来可能在那里购物或一直仰慕，所以非常想在那里工作。但你需要超越仅仅说‘我爱你们的品牌，能在那里工作会很棒’这一点。

I mean, I have some more generic advice, I suppose, because you still see time and again the same issues cropping up when it comes to job seekers not necessarily doing themselves a favor when it comes to applying for jobs at top employers in fashion and beauty. For one thing, you know, I know it's really obvious to a lot of people listening, but for many, it may not be addressing job specs and the needs at hand and relating it back to your experience really explicitly. It's amazing how many people don't do that. And again, you know, there is that element as we've just discussed around the desirability of certain brands that people desperately want to work out because they've potentially shopped there for years or they've always admired it. But you kind of need to emphasize past the point of saying, I love your brand and, you know, it would be great if I could work at your brand.

这真的不会引起招聘者的共鸣，尤其是考虑到有多少人说过他们想在这些特定的公司工作。相反，我认为现在记住这一点非常重要，这可能有点新，我们还没有真正谈到真正改变工作场所和许多员工需求和期望的下一代技术。但显然，很多求职者现在使用ChatGPT等工具来写他们的简历和求职信。他们之后没有修改。如果我再次看到‘动态’这个词，你知道，这是ChatGPT喜欢用的，这立刻就会暴露。

That is really not gonna resonate with individuals hiring, especially if you think about how many people have said that they want to work at those particular companies. And instead, I think it's really important to remember now, this is potentially a little bit newer, and we haven't really got onto the topic of of next generation technologies that are really changing the workplace and changing a lot about employee needs and expectations. But obviously, a lot of job applicants are using the likes of ChatGPT now to write their CVs, to write their cover letters. They're not amending them afterwards. If I see the word dynamic one more time, you know, like this is something that ChatGPT loves and it's an immediate giveaway.

所以我强烈建议，如果你在使用这项技术，确保你思考如何将自己融入其中，因为这是在今天由生成式AI制作的简历海洋中，让自己脱颖而出的关键区别因素。

So I would highly recommend making sure that if you're using this technology, you try and think about how you can put yourself into it because it is a key differentiator in, you know, a sea of generative AI crafted CVs and resumes today in finding a way of making yourself stand out.

所以我想稍微总结一下。你知道，我们一开始讨论的一个大主题，我认为是一个很好的结束主题，就是透明度。双方的透明度，对吧？作为雇主，如果你想在五年、十年后仍然有吸引力，人们真的希望看到你在世界上表现得几乎像一个人，有价值观，但也有灵活性和所有这些。

So I want to bring this back together a little bit. You know, one of the big themes we talked about in the beginning, I think is a good theme to end on is around transparency. Transparency on both sides. Right? As an employer, if you're going to be attractive five years, ten years from now, people really wanna see you show up as almost like a human being in the world with, you know, with values, but also, flexibility and all of these things.

你是否同意，这可能是这里的一个大要点，如果你是一家公司，可能也如果你是一名员工？

Would you agree that that is probably the one of the big takeaways here if you're a company and probably also if you're an employee?

我会说透明度，是的，作为雇主，这是一个关键的重点。然而，我认为在透明度中有一个元素甚至更为关键，那就是信任。这是雇主和员工之间信任的培养。因为作为雇主，如果你对员工可能的发展方向持开放态度，并展示你如何信任他们这些信息，而不是将他们的发展笼罩在神秘之中，希望这能吸引他们。这不会像你展示你信任他们这些信息那样有吸引力。

I would say that transparency, yeah, it's a it's key a key thing to focus on as an employer. However, I think there is an element within transparency that's that's even more crucial here and that is trust. And it is the fostering of trust between the employer and the employee. Because as an employer, if you are open about where they could evolve, like where your employees could evolve and you show how you trust them with that information rather than sort of shrouding their development in an era of mystery, you know, and hoping it keeps them enticed. It's not gonna necessarily be as compelling as when you're demonstrating that you trust them with this information.

透明度能让员工看清自己在企业中的职业发展路径，真正可视化他们在那里的未来及其可能的样貌，虽然这可能存在风险——也许他们并不觉得这具有激励性，但它也能为他们设定明确的工作预期与目标。我还想最后补充一点关于信任的看法，这也是我们报告和调查中频繁提及的主题。同样适用于混合办公与灵活性，65%的受访者表示他们需要这种模式。员工希望感受到被信任，相信自己能够且将以适合的方式完成工作。而雇主则需要证明他们能够也确实信任员工能交付成果。

Transparency allows people to see their career trajectory at a business as well as sort of really visualizing their their future there and what it will look like, which it may be a risk. Maybe they don't find that motivating, but it can also set sort of clear expectations and goals for them to work towards. And I also think, just as a final point on trust as well, that came up a lot in our report and in the survey as well. Similarly for hybrid working and flexibility, which was something that 65% of respondents said that they wanted, Employees want to feel trusted, that they can and that they will get the job done in a way that suits them. And employers need to demonstrate that they can and do trust their workforce to deliver results.

非常精彩的结束观点。索菲，非常感谢你的参与。这份报告真是太棒了。

Excellent point to end on. Sophie, thank you so much for joining us. What an incredible report.

非常感谢。希娜，每次和你探讨这些话题都让我非常愉快。

Thank you very much. It's always a pleasure to chat to you about this, Sheena.

请务必查阅《职场需求报告：时尚美容从业者对雇主的期望》，详情可见businessoffashion.com。本报道及其他内容仅限BOF专业订阅用户阅读，您可在节目备注中找到相关链接。您正在收听的是由奥利维亚·戴维斯和埃里克·布里亚制作编辑的《The Debrief》。我是希娜·巴特勒-杨，下周我们将带来全新一期节目。

Please be sure to check out the careers report, what fashion and beauty professionals want from employers at businessoffashion.com. This and other stories are available to DOF professional subscribers only, and you can find the links in the episode notes. You've been listening to the debrief produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Eric Bria. I'm Sheena Butler Young. We'll be back next week with a new episode.

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