他制作了一个AI播客，并成为了排名第一的节目。

比如，任何与杰弗里·爱泼斯坦相关的关键词，以及那些在时间线上持续走红的、与他有关的人。

Like, any keyword that was tangential to Jeffrey Epstein and the people that kept going viral tangential to Epstein on the timeline.

对。

Yeah.

你觉得Spotify什么时候会介入，或者它会不会制作像这样的原创内容？

When do you think Spotify or do does Spotify get involved by making originals like this?

根据他们掌握的用户搜索数据和收听数据，感觉他们应该更清楚什么内容会火。

Based on the data they have of what people are searching, based on the data they have of what people are listening to, feels like they would be in a in a better position to know what's gonna hit.

你觉得他们会参与这种……对。

Do you think they get involved in in this type of Yeah.

我觉得他们可以打造自己的亚马逊基础款。

I I think I think they could create their version of Amazon basics.

我觉得这个比喻挺贴切的。

I think that's a that's a good analogy.

就像亚马逊有那么多商家一样。

Like, Amazon has all of its merchants.

你懂吧？

You know?

他们不想蚕食掉所有销售，但他们会根据自己能在哪些方面靠利润竞争、哪些方面靠产品本身竞争，来推出自己的产品线。

They don't wanna cannibalize, you know, all the sales, but they'll produce their own product lines based off what you know, where they can compete on margin and where they can compete on, you know, product for what it's worth.

所以我觉得Spotify也会推出自己的亚马逊基础款。

So I think Spotify will have its version of Amazon basics.

没错。

Sure.

Netflix也一样。

Same with Netflix.

你明白吗？

Did you You know?

对。

Yeah.

不过Netflix的模式不一样。

I mean Netflix is a different model.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

比如 Netflix，据我所知，他们买 IP 的模式非常激进，有点坑那些真正把故事搬上银幕的制作人和导演。

Like Netflix, like, buys IP, you know, at a very from what I understand, at a very aggressive model and kinda screws over the actual producers and directors that bring these stories to life.

但这只是因为他们有发行渠道和话语权，所以才能这么做。

But that's just because they have the distribution and the power to do so.

所以也许，我记得他们刚花了六亿多美元买了本·阿弗莱克的公司，如果我没记错的话。

So maybe maybe with the new I think there was, like, a north of $600,000,000 they just spent on it was a Ben Ben Affleck's company, if I'm not mistaken.

没错。

Yep.

说实话，他的产品到底是干什么的，现在还不清楚。

To who know it's it's really unclear what his what his product does.

关于它的价值主张，公开资料不多，但我猜可能是一种视频模型，或者用 AI 制作电影的流程。

There isn't much documented on what the value prop was, but I assume it's a a video model of sorts or a process on how to produce films using AI.

对。

Yeah.

他们肯定也在审视自己的投入和产出，找出系统中的瓶颈，看看哪里可以优化。

And they're for sure also looking at their inputs and their outputs and identifying bottlenecks in their system and trying to see where they could optimize it.

所以，我觉得所有制作公司和流媒体平台自己生产内容只是时间问题。

So, yeah, I think it's only a matter of time until all these production houses and streaming sites, you know, they produce their own stuff.

现在我认为他们需要合适的团队和技术来实现这一点，这对在这个领域创业或投资来说，都是一个很好的机会。

Now I think they're going to need the right teams and the right technology to do so, which makes a great venture outcome for building in this category as well as an entrepreneur.

我觉得这确实是个很有意思的机会。

And I think that's a really interesting opportunity.

是的。

Yep.

所以生产这些内容只是时间问题。

So it's only a matter of time to produce this content.

有意思的是，创作者经济正是以极低的成本颠覆了传统娱乐行业，跟你说的道理一样。

It's interesting because the creator economy disrupted, you know, the the legacy entertainment industry based on an incredibly lower cost and the same concept you're saying.

我们迭代的速度更快了。

We're able to iterate faster.

感觉现在我们正在被技术和AI生成娱乐新闻内容的能力所颠覆，因为我们永远无法与之竞争。

And it feels like we are now getting disrupted in a way by technology and the ability to generate entertainment news content through AI because we we can never compete with that.

一群有创意的人永远无法在成本和速度上与你匹敌。

A team of creative people can never compete with the cost and speed of what you're doing.

但那些有创意的人可以利用这些工具，在其他任何媒介上构建和竞争。

But the team of creative people could use these tools to then build and compete in any other medium.

当然。

Sure.

对吧？

You know?

这就是关键所在。

It's like, that's the key.

关键在于，如果你有想法，并且足够有创意，不会被这些工具束缚住，你仍然能独立思考，而不是让工具替你思考，你仍然是整个过程的掌控者，那就回到我之前说的了。

It's like, if you have the ideas and you're creative enough not be, I guess, like stronghold by these tools where you can still think for yourself and they're not thinking for you, you know, you're still the orchestrator behind this entire thing, then it just goes back to what I said earlier.

这就像把你原本擅长的所有领域都放大了十倍。

It's like a 10 x's, all the areas that you otherwise were previously strong at.

现在你可以做得比原来好十倍、甚至一百倍。

Now you could just do it 10 times better, a 100 times better.

所以我仍然认为，创意工作者们依然有机会走在这波浪潮的前沿。

So I still think the creatives, they still have the opportunity over here to be at the forefront of this.

他们只需要发挥自己的创造力去执行，并利用这些工具来提升所做的一切。

They just need to use their creativity to execute and use these tools to help enhance everything that they do.

这些工具的设计初衷就是如此。

That's just what they're designed to do.

对。

Yeah.

可能我的看法有点偏激，但我真的这么认为。

I may be jaded with my with my perspective on that, but I really believe that.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我觉得这么说挺合理的。

I I think that's fair.

我觉得它肯定不会跟以前一样，就像从拍电影到做YouTube视频，团队规模会缩小一样。

I think it's it's not gonna look anything like it looked like before, the same way that there was a reduced team going from making a movie to making a a YouTube video.

现在团队规模会更小，或者有选择让团队变得非常小。

There will now be a reduced team or options for an incredibly reduced team.

我确实觉得，作为创意工作者，最有趣的部分之一，也是我个人很享受的，就是和别人合作。

I do think one of the most fun parts of being a creative and part that I personally enjoy is collaboration and working with other people.

我觉得跟别人一起为某件事兴奋起来，特别有意思。

I think it's very fun to get excited about something with other people.

但我发现，如果往远了看，会有更多像你这样的单人媒体公司。

But I am finding that, like, if you look down into the future, there's gonna be a lot more single person media companies like yourself.

比如说，在可预见的未来，你建立的这个播客网络，每个月可能达到一千万次下载，而且可能就你一个人。

Like, the the foreseeable future for you, you this this podcast network that you build could be doing 10,000,000 downloads a month, and it could just be you.

这可能是出于选择，但也可能是出于实际需要，确实可能不需要超过你一个人。

And that that can be by choice or but, you know, truly by just necessity, it may not need to be more than you.

完全同意。

Totally.

所以，是的，我认为这将是我们都将面临的一个问题。

So, yeah, I think that is that is going to be something that we're all up against.

我觉得，对于创意公司来说，运营成本是一个重大挑战，因为它可能与创意本身相冲突，也就是说，我的财务负担和创作需求可能会与我的创造力产生矛盾。

Like, I think overhead is a major challenge in creative companies because it can be at odds with creativity, meaning my financial burden and my necessity to create something can be at odds with my own creativity.

所以这将是需要考虑的一点。

So that will be a consideration.

但我很好奇，你对新媒体创作者有什么建议吗？对我们这些正在制作YouTube视频、播客、Instagram内容的人来说？

But I'm curious if you have any advice for new media creators, for us, for the the crop that is, you know, making YouTube videos, making podcasts right now, making stuff on Instagram?

比如，你对我们的未来有什么建议？

Like, what is what is the advice to us for the future?

当然。

Sure.

我那时候每周发布40到60条内容，包括推特、TikTok和Instagram。

When I was publishing 40 to 60 pieces of content a week, it was Twitter, TikTok, Instagram.

还有新闻邮件、网站、长音频、短音频。

It was the newsletter, the website, long form audio, short form audio.

当你全职做内容的时候，你迟早会围绕自己的工作建起一条流水线。

At some point when you're doing content full time, you build an assembly line around what you're doing.

你会建立流程、操作和系统。

You build a process, an operation, a system.

每个系统都有输入和输出，你需要搞清楚系统的哪个环节是拖后腿的瓶颈。

And within every system, there you have your inputs and your outputs, and you need to understand what part of your system contains the bottlenecks that lags you the most.

而人工智能正好是优化这些系统的绝佳机会。

And AI is like the perfect opportunity to optimize those systems.

我觉得这就像网上那个关于Palantir的梗。

I think like that's the meme that you see online with Palantir.

他们进入美国政府，找出问题，然后用人工智能来优化。

It's like they go into the US government, they figure out the problems, they optimize them using AI.

我这么说当然是很轻描淡写的，你知道，省略了很多细节。

I'm obviously saying it very lightly, you know, like stripping away a lot of the details.

但这就是个类比，我也是这么理解的。

But that's like the analogy, and that's how I think about it.

所以我是个注重系统和流程的人。

So I'm a I'm a person of systems and operations.

所以我会思考我的瓶颈在哪里，以及如何改进它们。

So I think about my bottlenecks and how I can improve them.

这是第一点。

That's number one.

第二点，要成为这些工具的使用高手。

Number two, be the very best at these tools.

订阅所有能订阅的东西。

Subscribe to anything and everything.

下载那些开源模型。

Download the open source models.

如果经济条件允许，给自己换一台更好的电脑和更好的设备。

Get yourself a better computer and better equipment if you can afford it.

把这些模型下载到本地。

Download these models locally.

动手实验，尝试把它们的能力发挥到极致，再和其他模型做对比。

Experiment and try to take them to the very edge of what they're capable of doing and compare it to the other models.

所以如果你特别关注视频领域，那就把所有视频模型都玩到最精通。

So if you're particularly focused in video, be the very best at all the video models.

成为这个领域的专家，甚至能主持一场三个小时的研讨会，把这些模型讲得明明白白。

Be the expert in the room to the point where you could host a three hour seminar on all these models.

对吧？

Right?

这样你就能知道，凭你现有的技能，如何灵活调整并应用到当前的工作中。

So that you know with the skills that you have now how that could be shape shifted and applied into what you're doing today.

然后挑战自己，通过你的内容创造一种全新的艺术形式。

And then challenge yourself to create a new form of art through your content.

如果你是个很会讲故事的人，试着用这些工具来创作一个十五秒的故事，可以是视频、音频，或者其他任何形式。

If you're a great storyteller, try to use these tools to prompt out a fifteen second story, a video, an audio, whatever it may be.

然后，就是始终保持好奇心。

And just, like, always stay curious.

就是，要站在最前沿。

Just, like, be at the very, very edge.

因为如果你能始终站在自己领域的最前沿，我相信你永远不会被取代，而且总能领先一步。

Because if you're able to stay at the very forefront of what you're doing, then I believe you'll never be replaced, and you'll always be ahead of the game.

至少我自己是这么做的。

And and that's what that's what I practice at least.

我只能从自己的角度来说。

You can only speak from my perspective.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这个观点。

I like that.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得唯一想补充的就是，要接受这件事正在发生，你懂吗？

I think the only thing I would add is like the acceptance of the moment that this is happening, you know?

我觉得这很难。

And I think that is hard.

确实很难。

It's hard.

接受起来很难，因为我们本质上，我觉得，人类总是想保留，保留现在或者过去的东西。

It's hard to accept because we are inherently, I think, our desire is always to preserve as humans, like preserve what is now or what is the past.

但火车在往前开，而且开得很快。

But the train is moving, and it's it's moving fast.

就像我说的，我觉得这为更诚实的创作打开了大门，我很喜欢，也让我们能更多地探索这类技术的可能性。

And like I said, I think it opens the door for a lot more honest creation, which I love, and a lot more exploration of what this type of technology is capable of.

我很久都没碰过 vibe coding 了。

And I did not touch vibe coding for a long time.

我其实对它没太大兴趣。

I didn't really have that much of an interest in it.

但一开始做之后，我发现它满足了我很多自己都没意识到的创造力需求。

And once I started, I recognized that it is satiating a lot of creativity that I didn't know was unsatiated.

所以，我真的很享受探索各种可能性的过程。

And so I've I've really enjoyed my time exploring what's possible.

大概一年前，我们和马克·扎克伯格聊过一次，他当时在谈技术。

We had a conversation with Mark Zuckerberg about a year ago, and he was talking about technology.

他说了一句话我一直记得：就算大家都有iPhone，墙上照样挂着电视。

And he said something that's always stuck with me that even though we have iPhones, we all still have TVs on our wall.

意思是说，新东西不一定总能取代旧东西。

Meaning, the new doesn't necessarily replace the old always.

通常，实际空间比你想象的要大得多。

There's typically actually more room than you think.

我们总是担心新技术会取代旧技术。

We always get nervous that, like, this new technology will replace the old technology.

但很多时候，实际情况是，它只是作为一种补充存在。

But oftentimes, what happens is, actually, it's just in addition to.

当我思考现在正在发生的事情时，我不确定我们是否经历过这种技术的指数级发展。

When I think about what's happening here, I don't know that we've ever experienced the exponential nature of this type of technology.

你同意这一点吗？还是你觉得这和以前的技术进步差不多？

Would you agree with that, or do you think this is comparable to previous advancements in technology?

不。

No.

我认为它完全超越了以往我们见过的任何东西。

I think it's it's completely outperformed anything that we've ever seen.

而且我觉得，如果你不用Claude或者ChatGPT，会有一种真切的失落感，因为那种高效的感觉实在太让人上瘾了。

And I think there's a a genuine withdrawal feeling that you get from not using Claude or not using ChatGPT because the feeling of productivity is so addicting.

而且，在一天二十四小时里，你能变得更高效、完成更多事情，这在某种程度上就像在玩电子游戏。

And the fact that you can be more productive within your twenty four hours a day and achieve more is like playing a video game in a way.

我觉得它触发了同样的多巴胺和那些你从其他容易上瘾的事情中获得的激素。

I feel like it triggers the same dopamine and, you know, hormones that you would get doing anything other that's relatively addicting on the internet.

至少我个人是这么觉得的。

At least that's how I personally feel.

这就是我在互动中学到的东西。

That's what I've learned about my my interactions.

比如，上周末我去拉斯维加斯参加了一个单身派对，情况就已经到了那种程度。

Like, it's gotten to the point where this past weekend, I was at a bachelor party in Vegas.

我们去了那个球形场馆。

We were at the sphere.

我脑子里全是各种想法。

My mind is racing with ideas.

我身处一个非常有创意的环境，心里就想，靠。

I'm one in a very creative setting, and I'm like, shit.

我现在就该把这些想法记下来。

I need to be clotting right now.

我得赶紧把这些想法付诸实践。

I need to be I need to be implementing these ideas.

所以我直接就在中间站了起来。

So I literally I got up in the middle.

我走到旁边，心想，你可以用手机访问命令行界面，之类的。

I went to the side and, like, was like, you can access your CLI from your phone, whatever.

有这么多集成功能。

There's all these integrations.

我只想趁这些想法还没消失赶紧记下来。

I just need to get these ideas down before they run out.

一个新点子，可能是关于知识产权的概念，或者一句标语，什么都行。

A new idea for a concept for an IP, a tagline, whatever it may be.

用这种方式创作从未如此简单。

And it's never been easier to create that way.

那种感觉太让人上瘾了。

That feeling is so addicting.

所以对我来说，我觉得这可能会带来一些负面影响。

So for me, I feel like that's gonna lead to, like, certain downsides.

这确实带来了很多好处。

There's definitely a lot of benefits that come with that.

说不好。

Don't know.

我是说，你用这些工具。

I mean, you use these tools.

你用起来感觉怎么样？

How do you feel using them?

你对这个有什么反应？

What what is your reaction to that?

对。

Yeah.

对我来说，唯一能类比的就是第一次用Windows Movie Maker剪辑视频时那种无与伦比的掌控感。

I mean, to me, I would say the only thing I can compare it to is the first time I edited a video on Windows Movie Maker where I felt this rush of unparalleled capability.

感觉自己特别有能力。

Like, I felt like I was capable.

你知道吗，在年轻的时候，那种感觉非常强大。

You know, at a young age, that's a very powerful feeling to feel.

而我觉得现在这种感觉被放大了上千倍，甚至上万倍，我可以用人类语言来描述我想完成的事情。

And I think this is that multiplied by a thousand, if not a million, where I can use human language to describe what I want to get done.

你知道吗，最近，这个周末，我正试着安排我的一周，然后让Gemini接管了我的谷歌日历。

You know, recently, I I, this weekend, I was trying to prioritize my week, and I had Gemini take over my Google Calendar.

我说，这是我想做的事情。

And I said, here's what I wanna do.

这是需要完成的时间。

Here's when it needs to get done by.

帮我整理一下日历，给我分配任务，这样我就知道什么时候该坐下来做这些事情，按时完成它们。

Just organize my calendar to give me the tasks, you know, so that I know when to sit down and do these things to get them done when they need to be done.

然后我的日历就被安排得井井有条，完全符合我的想法。

And my calendar was was filled out in a way that made sense to me.

我当时就想，好吧。

And I was like, okay.

不错。

Cool.

任务都安排好了。

I got my tasks.

很好。

Great.

这只是一个很简单的例子。

And that's a very simple version of it.

我觉得从最宏大的角度来看，能用人类语言来描述，这真的太不可思议了——我只要描述我想要的东西，它就能实现。

And I think on the most expansive version, like, the fact that you can use human language is is what's insane to me, that I can just describe something that I want to exist, and it can exist.

就像你刚才提到的，这就像电子游戏一样。

And I think that is, like you just mentioned, like a video game.

我觉得电子游戏一直在告诉我们关于人类行为的东西。

And I think video games have have always informed us about human behavior.

比如，电子游戏那种让人上瘾的特性，其实很能说明我们是谁、我们想要什么。

Like, the addictive nature of a video game actually tells you a lot about who we are and what we want.

而且你看，创作者经济的兴起，以及像Twitch或YouTube这些互联网平台的崛起，其实都根植于早期用户的体验——那些用户是游戏玩家，而早期的观众也是看游戏的人。

And even when you look at the rise of the creator economy and the rise of these any internet platform, whether it be Twitch or YouTube, they're rooted in the experience of the early adopters were video game users, and the early viewers were people who watched video games.

我觉得沿着这条路走下去，再看看预测市场的发展，以及所有东西都在游戏化的趋势，你会发现一切都追溯到电子游戏的产品设计，以及我们为什么停不下来玩它们。

I think if you keep going down that path and you even explore like what's happening with prediction markets and what's happening with essentially the gamification of everything, everything traces back to the product design of a video game and why we can't stop playing them.

所以我觉得你刚才说的非常准确。

So I think what you just said is very accurate.

而且我认为这种感受是无法阻止的。

And I think there is no stopping that feeling.

而产出曾经只属于少数人，比如艺术家和创作者，我觉得当艺术家是非常令人向往的。

And the output being what used to be reserved for the few, like the artists and the creators, I think being an artist is incredibly aspirational.

当创作者也变得非常令人向往。

Being a creator has become incredibly aspirational.

而仅仅通过一段描述，如果你有品味或眼光，就能成为那样的人，这真的很迷人。

And the fact that using just a description, if you have the taste or the vision that you can become that is fascinating.

我已经做内容创作五年了。

I've been creating content for five years.

我创办了一个叫Mint的播客。

I started a podcast called Mint.

我通过那个播客积累了我的

I grew my

邮件列表。

email list on over that pod.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

那就是我们第一次互动。

That's that was our first interaction

是你邀请我们来的。

was you inviting us.

我们当时真该来的。

We should have come on.

你本来应该来的。

You should have come on.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我把我的邮件列表做到了超过10万订阅者。

I I grew I grew my email list to over a 100,000 subscribers.

是的。

Like Yeah.

我打造了内容的人性化一面。

I built the human side of content.

有一段时间，我每周要发布40到60篇内容。

There was a point where I was publishing like 40 to 60 pieces of content a week.

哇。

And Wow.

我深知持续创作的艰辛。

I know the grit of publishing.

我明白每天坚持出现的毅力。

I know the grit of showing up every single day.

是的。

Mhmm.

我也有产品开发和软件构建的背景。

I also have a background in building product and building software.

我同样有大数据方面的背景。

I have a background in big data as well.

所以我认为，这些领域的交汇对我来说是独特的，结合了我创作内容、构建产品、理解软件和数据的能力。

So I think the way this world converged is unique in a sense to me and my background of being able to create content, build product, understand software and data.

我觉得这是一个非常有趣的交叉点。

I think that's a really interesting intersection.

但更广泛地说，反思你刚才提到的，我本可以陷入这样的境地：天哪，这些AI会取代我的声音，它们会比我做得更好，或者我也可以选择尝试用这些工具来优化我的技术栈，提升我的表现。

But more broadly speaking, reflecting in what you just said, I could be in a place where, shit, these AIs are going to replace me in my voice, you know, and they're gonna be able to out execute me, or let me just try to use these tools to better my stack and better perform.

我觉得这些工具就是工具箱里的又一件工具，就像我们用Riverside来录音一样。

And I think these tools are just another tool in the shed just like we use Riverside to record.

我们用Substack或者Beehive来发新闻通讯。

We use a Substack or Beehive for for our newsletters.

这些工具都是为了提升我们的工作效率而造的，这些合成工具也没什么不同。

Like, are tools that were built for us to enhance what we do, and these synthetic tools are no different than that.

我觉得人类品味和人类创作永远都会有市场。

I think there's always going to be a market for human taste and human creation.

而且我认为这些工具能帮助拓展那个边界。

And I think these tools help expand that that frontier.

另外，如果你看看传统艺术界，有很多人都是反对AI的。

I think if also, if you look at, like, the traditional arts world, there's so many people who are anti AI.

甚至在电影行业，他们连剧本创作都不愿意用Claude或ChatGPT，因为那会破坏艺术创作的本质。

And even when it comes like the the movie industry, they don't even wanna use clod or chat GPT in the script creation because it defeats the whole purpose of creating art.

我觉得这些人自然而然就为那些更注重人性化创作的人开辟了一个市场，因为他们会更看重人的参与，远超过那些可能觉得消费合成内容有优势的人。

And I think those people by default carve out and market for folks to do things in a more human nature because they'll just value the human presence significantly more than those who maybe find the advantage of consuming synthetic content.

我觉得两种市场都会存在。

I think there's gonna be a market for both.

萨米尔，我想说，不知道你们是不是已经在做这个了。

I I think I I would like also like to argue at some point, Samir, I don't know if you guys are already doing this.

比如，你和科林会创建自己声音的克隆版，然后用你们的声音来做一些即兴的广告词，对吧？因为如果你们说的话或者我说的话不一致，不符合故事叙述的逻辑，你们的制作团队可以用更高效的方式来处理，也许有更好的方式来引入内容。

Like, you guys will create clones of your voices, you and Colin, and you'll end up creating ad libs of sorts, right, using your voices because your production team could produce that in a more efficient manner if you said something or if I said something an inconsistent way that didn't fit the narrative of the story, maybe there's a better way to introduce it.

这些工具我们都能用，它们只会让我们做的事情变得更好。

These tools are gonna be at our disposal, and they're only gonna enhance everything that we do.

你明白吗？

You know?

所以我也说不准。

So I don't know.

你会害怕吗？

Are you fearful?

你会害怕这个吗？

Are are you fearful of that?

比如说，你——不。

Like, do you No.

我其实并不害怕。

I am I am actually not fearful.

而且我也不反对人工智能。

And I I'm also not anti AI.

我是个务实的人。

I am a pragmatist.

我看世界时，带着极大的好奇心和探索欲。

I look at the world and I with with a immense amount of curiosity and intrigue.

我觉得，作为一个创意人，当初上网是因为我想当电影导演，而如今我发现，这件事逼着我更认真地去思考自己到底想表达什么。

And I think the the outcome that I've found for myself as a creative person who originally got on the Internet because I wanted to be a filmmaker is I have been pushed to think about what I honestly wanna say more.

意思是，长期以来，我一直是个有策略的创作者。

Meaning, I have been a strategic creator for a long time.

我在经营一家公司。

I'm running a business.

我觉得你做的那个，就是你在节目里提到的爱泼斯坦文件，那在当时确实是个很正确的战略选择。

I think what you did, what you made with the Epstein Files, as mentioned on the on the show, that's a that's a that would be the right strategic move at that point.

这步棋走得很聪明。

It's a very smart move.

这是技术很有创意的应用，也是非常具有战略眼光的事情。

It's a very creative application of technology, and it's a very strategic thing to do.

不过我不确定有没有两个人能充满热情，愿意每天花时间去做那个播客。

Now I don't know if there are two humans who are passionate enough to spend every day of their life making that podcast.

我不确定。

I don't know.

但我觉得，作为创作者，我们都被逼着去思考：我真正想做什么？因为那些有战略意义的东西，总会有人去做。

But what I think we are all getting pushed to be as creators is I just wanna watch what you honestly want to do because the strategic thing will already exist.

对吧？

Right?

所以我不确定你能不能理解这种真诚和策略之间的区别，但作为一个创作者，我能感觉到，什么时候我是真的想表达一些东西，什么时候我只是知道这样做在策略上会成功。

And so I don't know if that makes sense to you of, like, honesty versus strategy, but I can feel it as a creator when I have something that I honestly wanna say versus something that I know will strategically do well.

对。

Right.

这两件事在我脑子里越来越分开了，而策略性的东西越来越没意思，因为它无论如何都会被创造出来。

And those two things are getting separated in my mind, And the strategic thing is getting less interesting because it will just be created no matter what.

不管我创不创造，它都会被做出来。

Whether I create it or not, it will just get made.

所以这逼着我去想，作为一个创作者，我到底是谁——那种重要的、不可能被替代的东西，它永远不会只是流水线产物。

And so it pushes me to go, like, what who am I as a creative that is impo like, it wouldn't, it could never be an output.

我觉得这是个很有意思的命题。

And I think that's a really interesting prompt.

我觉得这会改变我创作的方式。

I think it's gonna change how I create.

我觉得这会改变很多人的创作方式。

I think it's gonna change how a lot of people create.

我希望在未来五年里，大家从柯林和我身上看到的，是一个极其真实的我们。

And I hope that it actually, over the next five years, what people see out of both Colin and myself is a radically honest version of us.

而且我觉得这种情况会发生在很多创作者身上，因为未来会出现一些非常成功的内容，是我们永远做不出来的，可能也不是我们真正想做的，但以前我们为了生存还是会去做。所以，这就是我诚实的理解。

And I think that'll happen across a lot of creators because there's gonna be really successful content that emerges that we could never make and we probably don't really want to make, but we would have made before because we're running So a that's that's my honest interpretation.

而且我认为这会迫使人们去认清，他们到底是真心喜欢创作本身，还是只想要创作带来的结果。

And I think it will push people to recognize if they are honest if they honestly like making stuff or if they just want the outcome of making stuff.

这样说能理解吗？

Does that make sense?

能理解。

It does make sense.

就是说，

Between,

对。

like Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我很享受我们俩现在的这场对话。

I enjoy this conversation you and I are having.

对。

Right.

就算我们不发布这个，我也完全没问题。

If if we didn't publish this, I'm totally fine.

我觉得这是一场很有意思的对话。

I think this is a a fascinating conversation.

所以对我来说，这很有趣。

So this to me is fun.

而对于所有觉得视频制作或内容创作过程有趣的人来说，我觉得他们能坚持下来。

And for all the people who find the video making or the content creation process fun, I think they will survive.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得你说得对，在我做任何事情或者花时间做某件事之前，我需要满足三个C。

I think to your point, before I do anything or I spend my time doing something, I need to be able to hit three c's.

我需要有创造力。

I need to feel creative.

我需要感到有挑战性，还需要感到好奇。

I need to feel challenged, and I need to feel curious.

我就是这样安排我的时间的。

That's how I spend my time.

它必须满足这三个条件。

It needs to hit those three things.

而让我一直坚持下去的，就是纯粹的好奇心、挑战，当然还有用代码制作媒体所带来的创造力。

And the thing that keeps me going with what I'm doing is the sheer curiosity and challenge and, of course, the creativity that comes with producing media with code.

把媒体当作产品来对待，用软件来构建媒体，我觉得这正好满足了我的这三个需求。

Treating media as a product and building media with software, I think is a thing that's like scratching the itch across those three c's for me.

就像你说的，你喜欢这场对话。

And to your point, it's like you enjoy this conversation.

我喜欢以媒体形式构建产品的艺术。

I enjoy the art of building product in the form of media.

对我来说，这太有趣了。

Like, that's so fun for me.

是的。

Yeah.

你明白吗？

You know?

所以，看看我能在任何领域把这件事做到什么程度，是我每天醒来都充满干劲去做的事。

So to see how far I could take that across any vertical is a thing that I wake up very fired up to do.

完全同意。

A 100%.

对我来说也一样，我最近在玩Gemini的一个编程功能，叫Gemini Canvas，我用它做了一个很有意思的音乐软件，可以从不同的歌曲里提取音轨。

And even for me, like, I'm playing around with Gemini has a a coding, you know, side of it called Gemini Canvas, and I built this really interesting music software with it where I could extract stems from different songs.

我从小就很喜欢音乐，那是我一直想做的事。

And I grew up loving music, and that was something I always wanted to do.

我以前在GarageBand里也做过，但特别难，而且花很长时间。

I used to do it in GarageBand, but it was really hard and take me forever.

自从我15岁以后，就再也没做过类似的事了。

And I haven't done something like that since I was 15 years old.

而且特别好玩，感觉就像创造力被解锁了一样——只要你能想到什么，就能做出来。

And it was so fun, and it felt like creativity unlocked in this way of, like, if you can just think of something, you can make it.

不管是视频还是别的什么。

Whether it's a video, whether it's what whatever it is.

只要你能想到，就能做出来。

If you just think of it, you can make it.

我现在反而比以往任何时候都更愿意在非商业的层面去探索创造力。

And I find myself actually exploring creativity in a noncommercial sense now more than I ever have before.

这让我觉得特别有意思。

And that is very fun for me.

所以我现在对一切都抱着好奇的心态去尝试。

And that is why I'm like I'm I I approach it all with curiosity.

未来的互联网能个性化到什么程度？

How how personalized does the Internet get moving forward?

我的意思是，展望未来，我知道你现在正在制作自动化的播客，或者多个自动化的播客，可以满足我每天想了解时事、学习新东西的需求。

Meaning, like, when I think into the future, I know right now you are producing an autonomous podcast or multiple autonomous podcasts that can satiate my desire to be in the know or learn about something on a day to day basis that's happening in current events.

但说到NotebookLM，我最初用它就是放资料进去，因为我和你一样。

But with NotebookLM, my original use case of it was just putting because I'm the same as you.

我通过音频和播客形式学习效果更好。

I I learn better in audio and in podcast forums.

所以我做过一些事，比如我对一家公司的季度S-1文件感兴趣。

So I've done things like I'm interested in, like, a a quarterly s one document from a company.

Spotify就是个很好的例子。

So Spotify is a great example.

我看到他们的S-1文件发布了。

I saw their s one doc dropped.

我就把那个PDF下载下来。

I took the PDF.

然后放到NotebookLM里，当成播客来听。

I put it into Notebookella and listened to it as a podcast.

那就是一个完全为我定制的播客。

That is a personalized podcast just for me.

展望未来，你觉得会不会有一天，我自己就能定制播客，比如我说，好，

As we look to the future, do you imagine a world where I'm just prompting my own podcasts, where I'm like, okay.

我只有七分钟车程，所以我就想知道NFL发生了什么。

I have a seven minute drive, so I actually just I wanna know about what happened in the NFL.

我想了解全球政治动态，还想知道好莱坞有什么新鲜事。

I wanna know about what's going on with global politics, and I also wanna know about what's happening in Hollywood.

你知道，我就七分钟时间。

You know, I got seven minutes.

就给我做一个刚好符合这个时长的播客。

Just make me make me a pod that fits that.

对。

Yeah.

完全同意。

Totally.

我觉得这肯定是未来的一个方向。

I think that's definitely an outcome.

我觉得大概再过三到六个月，在现有的用户界面里就能实现这个功能了。

I think we're maybe three to six months away from that actually being feasible within the existing UIs.

最近推特不是给所有文章都加了音频功能嘛。

I think we recently saw Twitter release this audio feature in all their articles.

而且每个大语言模型都有语音选项，可以朗读内容。

And every every LLM has has the voice option, you know, to read something.

但我还是觉得，要真正做好提示词工程，为那些没时间也不愿意花精力去筛选内容的人策划娱乐和信息，这本身是一门艺术。

But I still think there's an art in being able to prompt engineer properly and to curate entertainment and content for people who otherwise don't have nor care to do that level of of diligence and spend the time doing that for what it's worth.

我确实认为互联网最终会整合成一个聊天机器人，或者说，很多我们过去习惯使用的需要界面的工具，以后都不再需要界面了。

I do think the Internet is going to somehow consolidate into a chatbot or at least a lot of the tools that we otherwise were used to using that needed interfaces no longer needed the interface.

我觉得现在大多数我们用的产品，其实都没什么存在的必要了。

I don't think there's an argument for actually most of the products that we use anymore.

就连我之前做的一个产品，我们为它搭了一整套前端界面，用来做数据分析什么的，不重要，但现在只要在ChatGPT或Claude里输入一个提示词就能搞定。

Even one of the products that I was building that we built an entire front end around it, it was for whatever data analytics, not important, but that's just now a single prompt in ChatGPT or Claude.

所以很多我们以前用的工具，现在都已经过时了。

So a lot of these tools that we would otherwise use are no longer relevant.

而且我觉得互联网会整合成一个聊天机器人，人们会搭建大量基础设施来与之互动。

And I think the internet is going to consolidate into a chatbot and people are gonna be building a lot of infrastructure to interact.

他们会构建以代理为核心的基础设施，这样那些拥有用户注意力的界面就能优化利用，让消费者想通过聊天机器人之外的方式互动时，也能得到支持。

They're gonna be building agent first infrastructure so that the interfaces that do have the attention will be optimized to leverage whatever it is that you know, consumers wanna do to interact with other means outside of the chatbot.

因为本质上就是这样。

Because that's really what it is.

聊天机器人拥有通用智能，人们会像搭乐高一样给它加上各种连接器，来增强它的功能。

A chatbot has its general intelligence and people build connectors, kinda Legos into them to enhance their features.

而且随着时间推移，这会变得越来越容易。

And that's only gonna get easier with time.

我觉得现在已经出现了一种有趣的行为，你和我都在这么做。

And I think there's already a interesting behavior that you are doing and that I am doing.

我们正在用几个提示词构建自己的个人软件，解决自己的个人问题，这本身就已经很了不起了。

We're building our own personal software and solving our own personal problems with a few prompts and that already within itself.

比如你刚才举的例子，萨米尔，你做的那个事情，那是一个我每月花30美元订阅的应用，因为我是一个音乐人。

Like, the example that you just gave me, Samir, that you were doing, that's an app that I pay for $30 a month because I'm a musician.

我喜欢把音轨、鼓点、人声和钢琴分开处理。

I like to separate the tracks and the drums and the vocals and the piano.

你猜我接下来要干嘛？

Guess what I'm gonna do after this?

我打算自己去试着做那个。

I'm gonna go try to build that myself.

你明白吗？

You know?

这有什么意义呢？

Like, what's the point?

但我们一天都只有24小时，都会把时间花在自己认为最有价值的方向上。

And but we still all have 24 in a day, and we all will spend our time in a particular direction that we think will bring the most value to us.

我仍然觉得有机会为别人策划服务、内容或体验，而且人们还是会愿意为此付费。

And I still think there's an opportunity to curate the services or the content or the experience for other people, and people will be willing to pay for it regardless.

好的，谢谢你，亚当。

Well, thanks, Adam.

非常感谢。

I appreciate it.

我们很快会在工作室再见，因为我想跟你合作点什么。

And we will definitely see you soon here in the studio because I I wanna collaborate on something.

那就来吧。

Let's do it.

我随时奉陪。

I'm here for it.

太感谢了。

Thank you so much.